Police beat up defenceless woman
Police Federation conference, Bournemouth: An unarmed woman has been attacked by a mob of angry police officers this morning.
The victim, Ms Smith of Westminster, was told that she had "betrayed" us as blow after blow rained on her head. Her assailants are believed to have been enraged by the "theft" - as they see it - of their pay award by Ms Smith. She was even taunted with the question "What has Mr Balls got that you haven't?" This is thought to be a reference to a Mr Balls of Westminster who refused to take money from a group of teachers.
The victim reacted with a pained look. She is expected to speak about her ordeal shortly.
Your reporter was shocked by the violence (political, of course) that he has just witnessed.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~02~RS~)
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I think the police have every right to be incensed about this betrayal by the British government. Much in the same way that teachers, firefighters, nurses and other public sector workers have been let down by the state, the government has now given two fingers to one of the most important services Britain have got. It's high time that our MPs realised that the average joe is not on their parliamentary salary and gave wage rises in real terms as opposed to what amounts to a negative or ineffective rise below inflation. This will be one more nail in the coffin for Brown and Labour, that seat in Crewe is turning blue.
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You just can't blame them really! There is something so smug, complacent and detached about people who have been in power too long. Last night Hoon was virtually telling us all we never had it so good. You could almost hear the nations teeth grinding.
The trouble is for these great communicators that people know damned well that they do not have it so good. Things are not great and they look likely to get a lot worse unless you are an investment banker or Polish (I like Poles but not 1.6 million instead of the alleged 16000 or so we were told to expect). The 10p debacle says it all.
It always baffles me that people attributed with such great communication skills; people who are "listening" so intently to the public can get so out of synch with everybody.
The amount of money involved with the police was tiny - they were more upset by the cheating.
Who the hell can say we need 42 days and not laugh? Will they show real machismo and six weeks after pushing it through create emergency legislation to double that figure to 84 days.
Do they even know which audience they are playing to these days.
They don't "get it".
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Surely the police got mugged by the government first?
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I really don't know what to think when I see these stories.
On the one hand, the government have no interest in the public's opinion, I can't wait to see the back of them and it's great to see the usually obedient police force stand up for a change.
On the other hand, they've been getting above inflation pay rises for the last decade. Every one of them that I've met has been patronising and threatening and has expected me to prove my innocence before allowing me to continue down the street. I also see nurses (who require a degree) being exposed to violent behaviour without any of the protective gear or backup for lower wages than the police officer whose spelling and grammar I am correcting as he takes my statement.
Unfortunately, the police have recently been doing a very efficient job of marginalising and suppressing the very people who would be likely to come out on a march and support them against the government.
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Incompetent. She fits well with her cabinet colleagues.
Sadly the Police Force won't do themselves any favours with this move. ut that shouldn't stop them from shouting down an incompetent minister and her government.
We should all be doing this. Being patronised about steering us through the difficult times is a joke for a man who helped to get us deeper into water than anyone else.
The price to pay for all this excess will be a long slow and painful repayment of our debtors. Many will go bankrupt. The government will fall. Brown will, correctly, be blamed.
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Well Well
First the Teachers, now the Police!
Spectre of the 70s spring to mind.
What next 3 day week and our dead laying unburied.
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If I were in the police, I would be extremely annoyed to be told that a 2.5% pay rise would "risk economic stability", only to see the government blithely borrow £2700 million in an afternoon as a pathetic by-election bribe. Of course they are angry to be told such utter lies and held in such complete contempt.
The police can at least console themselves with their fantastically generous and unfunded pension scheme. Most of us in the private sector do not have anything like that luxury, again thanks to this government.
Crewe and Nantwich? That's nothing. It's hard to see the government holding on to many seats at all. Their time is past. Get your coats Labour.
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I am very suspicious of 'vested interest' groups, whoever they are.
The police, teachers and MP's themselves all fall into that category.
The police and teachers in particular, operate an effective monopoly, in that, we the English public have to put up with whatever level of 'service' they provide.
I would like to see the system recast in such a way that the English people are provided with meaningful choices in terms of 'security' and 'education' services.
England is light years away from anything like that - just a couple of aspects of our sadly muted democracy.
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I competely back the police with their demands. It is shocking how this Home Secretary and government have treated the police with such disdain.
Their arguments that inflation and mortgage costs will be kept down by not paying police officers an average of £3 per week are hilarious. It just goes to show how arrogant the government, led by gordon Brown, has become and that they actually believe that the police and the public believe these foolish lies. If the government were so worried about inflation, why did they give the country an unaffordable £2.7billion give away a week a go?!
Inflation is going up as are mortgage costs not because of small pay increases but as a result of bad governamce and to some degree international events.
This is definitely a weak Home Secretary who has to go.
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It was not all that long ago we were told that the Home Office was not fit for purpose. Having seen Ms Smith so ineffective in getting these funds secured from the treasury, but also fail dismally in the argument for 42 days - which the police have not apparantly called for at all - I would suggest our Home Secretary is not fit for purpose.
Unfortunately now there is no money left, we are borrowing more and more to cover the spending that is just being frittered away. With our money in Northern Rock now confirmed as at risk, I do believe we are up a certain creek without any sort of paddle.
Crewe will be interesting and we will hear that they are listening, but it is all whether they hear us that is important.
A general election is what we want. Unfortunately we are no longer able to protest without a licence so maybe we should start a virtual protest instead asking for one.
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I feel I must rsspond to the comments made by "the coopster".
As the wife of a policemen who has been in the force for nearly 30 years, I am incensed by the comment that the police officers should be happy with their generous pension scheme!
My husband has been obliged to pay a very high level of contributions for 30 years (the maximum allowable for any pension scheme) to get the same level of benefits that MPs get, for nothing, having made no contributions, after just 6 months' service!
He has also received annual rises which are meant to be the rate of inflation but, as they are (normally) backdated, they are constantly playing "catch up". MPs however vote themselves huge pay rises of, sometimes, as much as 40%.
What's fair about this?
Now Jacqui Smith is saying that "they" can't afford to pay the police officers what they are contractually obliged to pay them. She talks about not being able to afford to pay them as she is thinking about everyone's mortgages etc., but we need this rise to pay for our own mortgage and all the other bills that have increased!
What's more, we have two children who wish to go to University in the next few years and, whereas in my day grants were given to people to go to Uni, now we have to pay a fortune for the privilege and the students end up with a debt before they even start work.
Some Government!
Enough for now - I'll get off my soapbox.
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If government agrees on independent arbitration, then welch on the deal for whatever reason, they deserve every bit of bad publicity and misfortune that may result.
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If a government can prop up a bank or banks to the tune of billions , why can't they honour the agreement of police pay?
In Scotland they have been given the pay rise, if wee Scotland can do it , surely big England can!
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People who have no right to strike should never be held to ransom and stabbed in the back over their pay.
All these people do jobs that are essential and they are not asking for a kings ransom they just want to pay their bills.
With the police being reduced to tax collecting on behalf of the government they are the latest in a line of workers who are being undervalued by our society.
If the government want to save costs they can get shot of the quango assemblies and reduce the number of MP's at westminster who with the mass of legislation coming from europe are now surplus to requirements.They of course would have to vote for that themselves so its not going to happen.
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Mr Bean - No Bust
Prison Officers
Nurses
Teachers
Police
All having to work longer to stand still, to survive Mr Beans Boom.
Really beggars belief that Doctors got a substantial rise to work shorter hours!
But lets not forget Politicians used the Doctors pay in their claims of parity, when they submitted their claim for an increase to their independent pay review body.
As Mr Beans Boom bites deeper - Who will be next?
In 1997 many people felt - NuLabour New Hope
Now people feel NuLabour No Hope!
Think that says it all!
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Jackie Smith should be commended for going to the conference and facing the police.
Imagine the reaction if she had ducked out.
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As many people are saying here, the argument that this pay award would 'risk economic stability' is nonsense. Of course it wouldn't.
Now, underwriting UK bank wholesale credit - well that might just do it. Ignoring your own strictures as a government and stoking public sector borrowing - that, too, might do it. Declaring wars on several fronts and committing the military services to costly overseas adventures - that might also affect economic stability. And blithely watching a Balance of Payments deterioration without taking any steps whatsoever to deal with it - well, again, that could not fail to affect it.
But what government would be mad enough to do those things...?
I am increasingly despairing of a government that regards the citizens of this country as cretins who can't work out that the government has no strategy, no control, no clear objectives.
The aimlessness and incompetence is bad enough, but the belief that the rest of us are too stupid to see through the dull Brownite rhetoric is insulting.
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Just how much does Gordon really know?
Following the cancelled general election it was suggested that the economy made it 'risky' to have put it of.
Also Brown has recently locked several public sector groups into long term (mulit year) pay deals.
It seems he knew what was coming - might he also have a much better idea of what it to come than he is letting on?
Saving pennies here and there while flushing millions down the drain (alcohol unit nannying for over 35's, half a billion on youth offenders to no effect etc) what circumstances can he be anticipating for this aparant nonsense to make sense?
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The thing is, what Ms Smith and her new labour woodentops don't understand is that all of this could have been avoided. All they had to do was pay up. Now, she might think that having spoken with her media friendly boss that the tough love approach is the one to run with, or that a polite chat, a cup of tea and a garibaldi biscuit, would ease the path to a suitable new labour solution. It won't, just give our bobbys their money! Think about it, if they do go on strike who's gonna police the police??? (although I dare say there's a few ex miners that'd give it a go) Give them their money!
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So the Government cannot afford the extra few fractions of one percent for the police, yet they can always find the odd £50 billion or so to bail out billionaire bankers? The working class get stuffed, by labour, in ways that even the tories would have been appalled at, and yet some, (thankfully a rapidly diminishing minority) people still keep harping back to the 80's in their misguided defence of this cruel bunch of working-class hating elitists posing as labour ministers.
When did the tories double the income tax of the poorest workers? Oh! that's right, that was LABOUR wasn't it?
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! Labour are a cruel and vicious caricature of the old nasty tory party.
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I am concerned at the politicisation of the police. They seam to have over many years to be associated with the Conservative party, who are always banging on about law and order and putting bobbies on the beat. Its usually just fear mongering. along the lines of 'don't go outside, its too dangerous under labour'. Where is there was no crime under the conservatives in the 80s and early 90s. Many of us know that that is untrue. The only time i was threatened with a knife was when john major was in power.
We are talking about a trivial amount for a police force that is well payed. a so called virtual cut because its an increase below inflation. If it was given, then maybe might still be below inflation as other pay demands have to be met and inflation goes up. There should be some complaint about the principal but the police are a public service. Not a division of the Conservative party. They are not there to help Conservatives win Bi-elections.
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I have a lot of friends who are in the Police and the things they have to deal with make me realise they deserve every penny of the pay award!
I have voted Tory all my life but I was so sick of the arrogance of them that when Labour got in to power in 1997, I thought "hell, they can't be any worse and may even be better"!
However I have watched them go from Tony Blair behaving like the Del Monte Man saying "Yes" to anything and everything to behaving like a rather severe Nanny that told us not to worry or question anything at home or the world because they had all the data to make important decisions so we could all sleep peacefully at night.
They now show the arrogance that the Tories showed after such a long time in power. I honestly don't know who would be better as I think they are all so intent on believing how wonderful they are, they don't really care about the public that vote for them and pay their wages and fill their trough to feed from.
No wonder the 18-25 year olds can't be bothered to vote.
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Money, money, money! Shame this government has none or you can all have some (and then they would take it back in tax)
Can you not see that this government is bankrupt not only with money but also in ideas and morals?
Nu (Improved) Labour or Useless Tories or Drip-drip Liberals?
Roll on 2010, if not postponed due to 'Emergency Powers'!
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When negotiations are complete both sides are expected to honour the agreement. It would appear in this case that one side has no honour. I therefore can only offer my support to the other side in seeking restitution, including gaining the right to take industrial action. What with all the bureaucracy they have to suffer in their day to day duties, they need all the support they can get.
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Prison Officers
Nurses
Teachers
Police
Mr Bean doubles the amount of tax low paid workers pay.
NuLabour sure look like they are the party that represents working people
NuLabour - NuLow
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Kimtrace
Well if you compare your position to that of MPs, then of course you are worse off - who isn't?! That was not the comparison I was making.
I'm afraid I struggle to sympathise if you can get 2/3 final salary after a paltry 30 years!! I repeat - the private sector is far worse off, dramatically so in the last 10 years.
Ask an actuary, to get a 2/3 final salary pension you and your employer between you would at the moment need to contribute ~20% of your salary every year for 40 years. Public sector pensions are underfunded going forward by about 800 blllion (Source: Watson Wyatt). This cannot go on.
I am not saying you get rich on a police pension, but you are a lot less likely to be poor than if you rely on a private sector one nowadays, subject as they are to the discipline of publishing levels of funding, and being requires to maintain this, unlike the public sector. People need to wake up to the pensions apartheid in this country between public and private sector.
My company's scheme is in SURPLUS, yet still they had to close it to new entrants, and have raised contributions significantly. Cheers Gordon.
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I have just read on Sky News that there is to be a fuel protest next week in London. What will the police do? What will Bottler Brown do? More over, will it be reported (If allowed to go ahead!!!) by the BBC???
May we all live in interesting times.
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Last year the police managed to kill over 60 innocent people whilst tearing around in their jam-jars.
That there has been no outcry over that does tend to support my theory about powerful vested interest groups.
Fortunately, if you are wealthy enough, you can arrange you own personal security services.
Pity about the plebs eh?
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Why on earth put the police pay decsion to binding arbitration if you then don't agree to it?
This is at the heart of the NuLabour government of al the talents problem. They say they will consult, they pay billions in consultation and lawyers fees and then ignore the recommendations.
EU referendum? In the manifesto? Promises, promises.
'On your side' the NuLabour campaign slogan needs to be changed to 'On the slide' or maybe 'Taking you for a ride'
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7# Seen your comment before on here about retuning to the three day week in the 70's which of course was in Heaths Goverment in response to the disastrous hyper-inflation causing prices and incomes policy. Perhaps we will return to that if Cameroon, that well known Economics Guru/advisor to Norman Lamont takes over.
e can all look into the past with the benefit og hindsight and see Goverments mistakes, how far back should we go? Edens Suez Crisis?
In Government decisions have to be made and then face the scrutiny of the opposition, that goes with the territory. Armchair snipers like yourself, always there with an anonymous dig no doubt could do better. In my oppinion as we approach a time when the the next election could well deliver a new party in power we are entitled to put them as well as the government under the microscope but even hypothetical questions about their position on anything be it Northern Rock or the 10p question remain unanswered. Criticising others and highlighting problems has always been the domain of the weak and frankly pointless, Solutions, answers or alternatives are somewhat different
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#24 tobytrip
Money, money, money! Shame this government has none or you can all have some (and then they would take it back in tax)
Can you not see that this government is bankrupt not only with money but also in ideas and morals?
Nu (Improved) Labour or Useless Tories or Drip-drip Liberals?
Roll on 2010, if not postponed due to 'Emergency Powers'!
--------------------------
I agree entirely with your sentiments but can I also add that the Labour party is also virtually bankrupt? In recent years we have seen them sell Millbank, that infamous NuLabour bunker, and have had to reschedule their loans so frequently their bank must be dizzy.
They are really strapped for members, or is it liquidity - 20mil if I remember correctly!
NuLabour, government and party both bankrupt!
Roll on 2010 - 104 weeks and counting.
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I,m sorry to swim against the current, but I don't think the pay rise should be backdated. This is the norm for the government. When I was a member of HM Forces (14 years), the armed forces pay review sat in April. They decided a rise for us - no consultation, btw, then the findings were published some time after. I particularly remember one year when we were awarded 7.5% - we were delighted - until we read the small print. We would get 2.5% in the November and the following March, we would get the remainder. This is typical of our modern governments. Emergency service workers, et al are all last on the list for money, equipment, the lot! Instead we have the bizarre situation where a group of people we elect, can award themselves anything they like, including a second home allowance, furnishings, the lot! - in short, the gravy train. The rest of us have to suffer for thier mistakes.
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I'm sorry, but the Police have had inflation-busting rises in pay, get pension deals that are bankrupting local authorities, and retire before any other profession. They have lost touch with both reality and the public at large. GET REAL PLOD.... and start providing decent law-abiding citizens with a service!
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Chubby Charlie Falkener on The Daily Politics said it was right that the Government should not "give in" to wage demands, as that could impact on inflation.
The Police actually "demanded" more than the Government was prepared to offer. It is quite possible that they claimed too much.
But, after no agreement was reached, the issue was sent for arbitration.
By failing to to honour the 2.5% award, the government "saved" £40Mil. That represents 0.00006% of their total £617Billion spend programme...
The government has now borrowed £2.7Billion (just for this year!) to rectify a stupid decision on tax-changes.
If that money is borrowed at even 2% interest, it will cost £54Million.
So where exactly does the "tight control of government expenditure" fit in? And will Brown or Darling have the courage to make sure that this year's "alleviation of pain" is carried forward into future year's tax planning? If they don't - then exactly the same problem will happen all over again.
Sir Ian Blair admitted that his comments to a Commons Committee that about a dozen terrorist plots had been foiled was inaccurate. It was actually six (6).
If the Commissioner of the Met can't be bothered to check his facts before coming to the Commons, then who will? You would think that Jacqui Smith would have publicly flayed him black and blue for "misleading" the MPs.
But I forgot. That's what Blair, Brown and this disreputable cohort have made a founding principle of government.
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# 27
Delineates the plight of private sector workers regarding pensions.
Some astute commentators, notably award winning financial journalist Ian Cowie (Torygraph) warned back in 1997 that Gordon Brown might be inadvertently creating a sort of 'retirement apartheid' with his tax on private sector pensions.
Day by day, that is coming true.
In the not-to-distant future, the wealth gap between pensioners who worked in the public and private sectors will be a yawning chasm.
So much for social cohesion.
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Sorry Coopster but 11% of my pay towards my pension is not an "unfunded pension". During the 80's it was increased from 7% to 11% and it has remained there since. People seem to forget that we pay the highest amount so that we can retire "early". Ms Smith and Co have demonstrated a clear contempt for the Police and has been evidenced by other comments, this has been at the cost of bailing out Northern Rock and buying a £2.7 billion bribe for voters. However I can agree with the comments from someone else that the standard of grammar from fellow officers is cause for concern, the txt generation!
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#31: Eatonrifle
7# Seen your comment before on here about retuning to the three day week in the 70's which of course was in Heaths Goverment in response to the disastrous hyper-inflation causing prices and incomes policy.
----------------------------------------------------
The comment you quote is the first one I have made on these blogs!
I was referring to The Winter of Discontent! Remember Labour - could not even bury our dead, 3 day week does that ring any bells.
NuLabour the party that removed Clause 1V from their constitution - Nationalisation, yet have just Nationalised a bank!
Eatonrifle - Tinted vision at best, selective memory at worst!
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Nick if you actually notice this post could you raise #32 with the powers that be? I assume you do not risk imprisonment in the Tower of London or exile or anything.
You get nothing but thanks and the opportunity to call Paxo a wimp.
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#39
Correction
NuLabour the party that changed Clause IV in their constitution - removed Nationalisation, yet have just nationalised a bank! Now clause IV just consists of a wish list.
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Eatonrifle no 31:
Are you serious? Do you really believe that 'criticising' is simply 'sniping' by the weak and pointless? Let a thousand flowers bloom! The point of the blog (as Ii see it) is for anyone with a view, to have it read. Are we ruled out of the process because we don't have a solution to a problem? Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're really saying is: you don't like no 7s views. Fair enough, just say it, don't hide behind some veneer of impartiality.
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I'm sorry, but I have got issues with thecoopster.
Firstly, I'm not a police officer or related to one.
The primary concern of any police officer is public safety. Police officers do not decide that "today we will book motorists for speeding", these duties are set by senior officers who have in turn been set targets by the Government.
Police officers, like the Armed Forces and the other emergency services, are expected to save lives, at the cost of their own if necessary.
They also have to deal with arrogant lawyers in court, and in fact spend much of their time their for petty offences, because a lawyer has told their client to plead not guilty until the last moment - thus earning them more fees.
Thirty years is a long time to work for one employer, and for this level of public service they should be rewarded.
It was good to see that the Home Secretary at least had the courage to attend the conference, but you cannot ignore the findings of an independant review body and respond to criticism in a patronising manner. Had such a body decided on MPs wages, she would have been quick to accept the findings and explain that the Government was following the review.
Labour is more arrogant than the Tories ever were. The UK needed a change of Government in 1997.
It desperately needs one now.
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#39 check your facts re the three day week , this will help your memory, feel free to come back.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/releases/2005/nyo/politics.htm
I think you'll find my memory is pretty accurate
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You are quite right Nick, but does one not remember you saying that had it not been for Mrs. T. to hold firm against Unions' wanting more increases, we would have ended up with empty coffers?
One agrees with that, but then we only got inflation related increases and NOT above inflation increases for 10 whole years!
Look at the latest bad news Nick?
Tanker tracker Petrologistics said OPEC's oil output in May had risen by 700,000 barrels per day (bpd) compared with April. Extra OPEC crude has had little impact as the market has instead focused on short-term refinery problems, which are symptomatic of chronic under investment.
The perception available oil will struggle to keep up with demand for the foreseeable future has led to a series of bullish price forecasts from investment banks and influential investors. Billionaire T. Boone Pickens said yesterday he expected oil to hit $150 a barrel this year after Goldman Sachs said earlier this month a barrel of crude could reach $200 by 2010. Oil has risen from below $20 in early 2002.
All we need now is a Tory Govt. to reintroduce the fuel-tax escalator as confirmed by DC himself, and then excuse that inflation of 14% and over, is due to seasonal and unforeseen circumstances!
Then again, if Labour is in power, NO Tory mentions the rest of the world!
The present Global problems cannot and will not be sorted by petty adjustments to the economy as is being suggested, but by tightening of the belts as one of the IMF Chief said a week ago. We are in this for the long haul.
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#42 Firstly I think its clear I'm not impartial, like everyone I have a view and of course everyone is free to criitcise, however I feel that HM opposition shoud do rather more than that and put forward their alternatives or solutions so that they can face some scrutiny. Do you have a problem with that? I feel that Cameron does, Decisions, right or wrong speak for themselves, silence and evasion are rather more diffuicult to interprate
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#44: Eatonrifle
#39 check your facts re the three day week , this will help your memory, feel free to come back.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/releases/2005/nyo/politics.htm
I think you'll find my memory is pretty accurate
-------------------------------------
politics.htm I think that about summed it up for me! Trust our politicians. Wow thats asking a lot, certainly in today’s climate. Inflation 3% how many people would agree with that today.
There are statistics and there are also NuLabour statistics
Back to the relevant topic:
Winter of discontent
Unable to bury our dead
Refuse piling up on our streets
NHS ancillary workers formed picket lines to blockade hospital entrances with the result that many hospitals were reduced to taking emergency patients only.
Power cuts - 3 day working weeks
Shortages of food.
Eatonrifle - Tinted vision at best, selective memory at worst!
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Whatever one's politics it may be that we should feel a little sorry for the unfortunate Ms Smith. I suspect much of the situation she finds herself in was not of her making. I don't think that it was her decision to withhold the pay rise from the Police. As the reason given concerned the Nation's finances it must have come from higher up. Likewise the 42 days detention (and ID cards) were not her personal initiatives. Indeed does it seem that the recent proposals for a national database of electronic communications originate from Ministers.
She has a department self confessed as unfit for purpose and a rag bag of, at best, barely defendable policies. I think she might gain a deal of support from all sides if she resigned.
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This whole shabby affair tells you everything you need to know about this Government.
Paying the police (who cannot defend themselves by striking) in accordance with the recommendations of their Pay Review Panel is a matter of honour and trust.
This Govt has acted totally without honour and has breached any trust between them and the police. It is shameful,
Jacqui Smith then goes on to insult our intelligence by saying this was to stop inflation. We all know that in reality this was Gordon Brown trying to curry favour with the masses by trying to appear tough on pay on a high profile element of the Public Sector, ("Look at me, keeping public spending under control.....trust me with your taxes!"). It is so obvious it is pathetic. Why pick on the Police? Why not the nurses, or the teachers, or more to the point, the civilian support services to the Police Force - the civilians got their pay award so why not the Police? Well, tough old Gordon Brown is only "tough" on those who can't fight back....the Police can't strike so they are an easy target. The politics of this decision stink.
Oh yes...and if the Government is so concerned about inflation why did Gordon Brown argue last week in that interview with John Humphreys on Today that the £2.7billion was made to "support the economy" Isn't this inflationary?!They can't even argue from a consistent position.
Every decision Gordon Brown takes (and let's not think Jacqui Smith is responsible here - this was Brown's decision) is taken for supposed personal political gain. He deludes himself that he is a man of principle who plans for the long term, but his actions say otherwise. He is a short term political operator, but his problem is he is a very bad one and his decisions increasingly have a habit of backfiring spectacularly, (Police pay, cancelling the election, 10p tax, negative campaigning in Crewe etc etc)
History will be very hard on Ringmaster Gordo and his cabinet of clowns.
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#48
So you chose not to follow the link then. If you choose to believe the three day week and the power cuts were under a Labour Government that is up to you, its simply a matter of fact rather than opinion that it was during Ted Heaths Governmnt.
But surely as its over thirty years ago now it starts to loose relevence as I said where do we stop, don't forget the National strike of of '26, no don't tell me that was Callaghan too!
AS fo adding "shortages of food" just for good measure, that is truely "strange"
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Eatonrifle:
Get real. Yours is a fantasy politics. The reason Cameron and his party refuse to put forward 'solutions' (as you claim) is because they don't need to. There is nothing to be gained from it. New labour is dying. Besides, it is the job of the government to find solutions to their problems, not the opposition.
Sure, there's a case for arguing that the party in opposition should debate 'contructively', but in my book, being constructive means simply holding the government to account for the endless porkies they tell and political miscalculations they make.
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#46: Eatonrifle
#42 Firstly I think its clear I'm not impartial, like everyone I have a view and of course everyone is free to criitcise, however I feel that HM opposition shoud do rather more than that and put forward their alternatives or solutions so that they can face some scrutiny. Do you have a problem with that? I feel that Cameron does, Decisions, right or wrong speak for themselves, silence and evasion are rather more diffuicult to interprate
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I would certainly agree with your later point - evasion is rather difficult to interpret.
Are you a politician? I only ask because evasion is a particular trait so often associated with politicians, of all political persuasions!
Unfortunately evasion, along with its older brothers corruption, lying, deceit and sleaze appear to be the tenets that Westminster is currently built on.
The British public are sick to the back teeth with the shabby state of politics today.
Why do you think the people of Britain currently hold Politian’s in such low esteem.
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Arbitration and negotiation are now the keystones for settling industrial disputes, for one party [the government, whether Labour, Conservative, or Martian] to decide to abandon such a process because they don't like the outcome sets a dangerous precedent. With the recent rises in the prices of oil and hence fuel, food etc. failure to backdate such a pay award is a poor example of penny pinching.
Trying to keep a cap on this when inflation is climbing will do considerably more harm than good.
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NuLabour - NuLosers
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#171 your quite right. I'm afraid that renaging on the police deal was a rather futile mistake, for what it would have cost the government to have settled this, the back dating I'm talking about, it was never worth it to bring discredit on themselves, the ten pence tax rate was another one and I am afraid that the forty two day bill is another, I am a avid supporter of labour and a great admirer of Gordon Brown but these three things are own goals and could have been easily avoided, there's still time to drop one of them, I dont see anything wrong myself in the forty two days but with so many MPs against it then it would be foolish to push it through.
Labour has done so much for this country that to let these three things spoil it for them seems silly, as sad as I am to say this.
To get back to Jackie Smith she did show amazing courage to step onto that podium and face all those police of both sexes, no disrespect but I wonder how many of those brave police officers would have got up there in similar circumstances, and it was wrong for anyone to disrespect her, it reminded me of the time that Tony Blair was asked to speak at a WI conference he accepted knowing that his audience were mostly Tories, and these ignorant women that had invited him slow hand clapped him. what did that say for those women, to invite someone to inconvenience themselves with the sole object of insulting your guest.They did'nt get themselves any respect for that and they should'nt have
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52#
As you say and probably rightly that the Labour Government is dying then we can be 99% certain it will be the Tories next.
Why is it wong to want to know their policies?
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# 55 Nu labour Nu losers its amazing you did'nt try to fit in bean and ditherer or even as some great brain thought up McBroon all these expressions have been used about five hundred times but your use of them was probably the worst yet, climb back in your playpen and take your afternoon nap it must of been very tiring for you to write that posting.
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To 'thecoopster' and all members of the media who bring up the cost of police pensions, and what a cushy little perk they are. Police Officers pay 11% of their salary for this pension scheme from the first to their last pay packet. It is one of the few good things about the pay and conditions package, but it does cost them. Incidentaly, its based on the civil service pension scheme, used to pay the pensions of 1000's up and down the country.
Stop moaning about how much i pay towards my old age, it costs you nothing at all. Listen to this bit, not a penny. If you think its so good, come and join us on the thin blue line.
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51: Eatonrifle
#48
Read my lips - Energy Unions on strike, 3 day week, surely even you can equate No Power and food shortages, guess not.
I was a member of Labour Party at the time so can clearly recall those happy Labour days.
Now regarding your point of relevance;
Ineos a private energy company have been on strike 50 mil a day losses.
Nurses preparing to strike.
Teachers on strike.
Police preparing the grounds for a strike.
Does sound like history is preparing to repeat itself.
By the way I was an active trade unionist at the time. So I do know how important it is to protect your family’s interests, certainly in todays current climate. I can only sympathise with the workers who have been betrayed by this shabby NuLabour government.
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Labour ministers are hard to find as it is so if they keep on getting a hard time they will vanish fron sight.would people stop asking them questions that need a direct answer instead of the party line.On the daily politics show today the labour man(Faulkner I think) was having a hard time explaining why there was no money to pay the police but 2.7 billion for freebies.
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NuLosers - NuDitherers
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Grandantidote 56:
Bit insulting: those ignorant women of the WI??? Ignorant about what? Or just generally ignorant? All Tories? Lets talk about ignorance for a while: how about the general ignorance of the Brown administration when it comes to comprehending the difficult circumstances now faced by many of us trying to make ends meet (like, for example, even ordinary policemen)
Why should they show her respect?
Furthermore, I suspect that any policemen used to walking around our city centers on an evening at the weekend would have little difficulty doing what Ms smith did.
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#58:
Mr Bean - I make no apologies whatever for using that expression. But I would like to take this opportunity to thank Mr Cable for coming up with that name. An expression that perfectly describes the leader of the NuLabour Party - In this world but not of it.
Whilst in the Labour Party my comrades and I used to call Peter Mandelson - Mandy, just an expression.
If that’s the best you can attack me on, you had better have a NuLabour Team huddle - you are losing!
Wow, I bet you have even got me pegged as a Tory, but can I assure you I would not have a problem calling the leader of the Tory Party - Flashman, or indeed any other term that best fits him.
I am not surprised you have picked up my use of the term McBroon, I am surprised you have not accused me of prejudice or worse racist. But after all I am a Scotsman living in England and although I really enjoy the banter with Team NuLabour on these blogs, I spend most of my time on a number of blogs across Scotland.
Guess what? That’s what many of my fellow countrymen call him. So you will have to forgive me if I do frequently slip into Mr Broon or McBroon mode. If Mr Bean upsets you, tough, get used to it.
It may also surprise you were I come from Kirkaldy - the lang toun. Now I wonder who represents that area. At least up to 2011.
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# 48 simple answer to the three day week . your on a computer , just type in three day week and you have the answer not difficult , I just did it it was the Conservatives under Ted Heath that had a three day week.
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#60
Ok I give up. I think you said I had a selective memory? I simply pointed out that your refernce to the "three day week" being associated with Labour government in the 70's was a little misplaced. I sent you a link to the National Archives which gave a narrative of the events in 1973/4 during Ted Heaths government which explained how we arrived at the "three day week" but still you persist. There are clearly two versions of events, mine supported by the National archives and Yours.
It could of course be a Government cover up!
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#65: grandantidote
# 48 simple answer to the three day week . your on a computer , just type in three day week and you have the answer not difficult , I just did it it was the Conservatives under Ted Heath that had a three day week.
grandantidote
Better idea, just type in winter of discontent.
After all thats what I am talking about!
As I said before been there worn the T shirt.
Unfortunately it had a monkey on the front!
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65#
Thank you so much, I'd lost the will to carry on!
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The hypocrisy of this Govt is clearly displayed today.
It was brave of the Home Secretary to go to Conference but it hardly matters anymore, courage should go hand in hand with intergrity.The point that several bloggers have already made around the speed of bailing out bad investments with huge sums of money which we ALL will pay for and at the same time renaging in the police's case on an independent pay agreement in the hope that the police wouldnt and couldnt kick up a fuss is just the thin edge of the wedge.
I am not a political animal but the cynical way this Govt has gone about its business makes me feel that none of us in whatever walk of life can trust them to do the right thing, unless that it's within their own personal interests to save their political skins.
Brown made a pledge to act with integrity and fairness for all on his ascencion to the Blair throne, well barely a year in and the true colours and cracks in this regime show them for what they are - self serving and totally out of touch about how difficult it is for everyone whether they are police officers or pensioners.
Frankly I think the whole affair is shameful and a sad reflection on where we are and where we have been going for sometime only now the lies and hypocrisy can't be spun away or concealed behind the next new scheme.
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3 day week - perfect for the summer! Bring it on
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63 doctor gloom ignorant about what, why should we show her any respect. that says a hell of a lot about you my friend. that old chestnut of trying to make ends meet, give it a rest. Poor policmen strugg ling to make ends meet they've got one of the best jobs in the country for their skill level, they have six weeks sick pay a year and most of them take it sick or not, and did you hear the awards the recieve after retiring at fifty who else gets better than that. Nip down to the fishermans wharf and see how much they get for the work they do in the very worst of conditions and no golden handshake at the end, and their in the worst possible danger every time they go to sea. I have believe it or not great respect for the police but please dont give me a sob story about them, the job they do is the job they chose so dont encourage them to bellyache about it. your last paragraph, two entirely different types of courage, we all walk around our city centers on the week end and we dont all congregate around a police officer when we do this.
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Once upon a time a horse was worried about a wolf and so talked to a man - pointing out that the man was also the enemy of the wolf. The man agreed to help providing the horse allowed him to put on a saddle and bridle to help him hunt down the wolf. The horse agreed and the man hunted down the wolf and killed it. The horse then asked the man to remove the saddle and bridle - the man said 'like ****'.
Labour has invested in and created a vast number of people in the social services/ administration areas creating a class that are more likely to vote labour than tory. This class has helped them to defeat the tories in 3 elections.
Now it's payback time. They can't stop the people in these areas making their demands from them.
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# 67 NuLabourNohope, nope! just tried winter of discontent, nothing, not a glimmer any other suggestions.
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I wonder how many time over the £ 2.7 billion pound bribe for the Crewe by election could have paid for the difference up to the Police's full pay rise?
Just a thought!
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#72weejonnie. Love the horse story, but it all goes down from there, you should have told us another story instead of that nonsense.
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#73: grandantidote wrote:
# 67 NuLabourNohope, nope! just tried winter of discontent, nothing, not a glimmer any other suggestions.
Why dont you ask central office for a new one, it appears either you PC or you are not up to scratch.
The tinternet is a wonderful thing!
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I find it strange that the government claims to not have the money to afford a modest pay rise for police, and yet can find £100bn to prop up a bank which failed due to reckless management.
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Spot on #72 - build a client state at your peril should be tattooed on Gordon Brown.
It's one thing buying votes but it's quite another when they turn around like 'Oliver' and ask for some more.
You reap what you sow. These boys are going to spend the next two years having to clear up their own mess from public sector pay, to busted PFI, bloated private sector debt, an over inflated housing market and everything they do will be unpopular.
You reap what you sow.
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So Ms Smith wants the police to take a below inflation pay rise 1.9% to help the economy. We are told that inflation is about 2.25% and might go up to 3%. What do you know has gone up in the last year by 3%? Food up by over 16%, Petrol about 20%, Gas and electric up by 10%-15%, Average rail fares up 4.8% and even the capping for Council Tax increases was set by this Government at an inflation busting 5%.
Surely Ms Smith has now given the police all the incentive they need to investigate this inflation fraud/con, which is being perpertrated by Mr Brown and his ministers on the Great British Public. Maybe we should all go to a local police station (if it hasn't been closed) to report this crime.
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#73
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent
I think you'll find this was rather a grim time and largely a self inflicted Labour party wound.
Spot the similarity?
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I used to have a lot of time for the Police, in fact I even served as one for a couple of years but left when I saw how it was evolving and becoming more and more politicised at the expense of the people at large.
Having said that, this really boils down to being absoultely stupid enough to think New Labour would honour a pledge. Only a complete moron would do that.
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@64 NuLabourNo hope wrote "Mr Bean - I make no apologies whatever for using that expression. But I would like to take this opportunity to thank Mr Cable for coming up with that name. An expression that perfectly describes the leader of the NuLabour Party - In this world but not of it."
Mr Bean the comedy Nerd, is an unwise term of abuse to aim at Gordon Brown, for any of us typing into a political blog lets face it! It is even unwise for Vince Cable. as politicians are hardly the popular quarterback in the college football team.
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#71: grandantidote
Just one question. Are you the Jack Russel or is it Kwiqlegs.
Me I am a scotch Terrier!
Can I make one observation? You would make a brilliant NuLabour Politician for two reasons:
You appear to have the same contempt for working people, including police, as Mr Broon has.
You have a wonderful turn of phrase that would sit well within the NuLabour Politburo.
Only thing left - are you as good a liar as Mr Bean is.
Note that your NuLabour team member dhwilkinson has come online - cue dhwilkinson, he appears to be as touchy as you about my use of Mr Bean. Tough!
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I can't help comparing the attitude of said denizons of Westminster to a) their own remuneration with b) the arbitrated recommendation for the Police force.
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Come on Team NuLabour can you not raise the bar a bit.
dhwilkinson blah de blah de blah!
As I said before I have been were you are, I have worn the T-shirt.
Have standards in the NuLabour camp gone this low since I left?
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Looks like Team NuLabour have gone away to regroup. So I will go now to take my usual tour of the Scottish bloggs. Scotland, they know how to treat their police with respect!
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The Dali Lama has called for people to support the Olympics and is open to mature discussion with China. He feels that any controversy is being stirred up by the media. This is a much more positive and consensual long-term approach than the short sighted view of the police and media fuelled hysteria we've seen over this issue.
My view is that the police and media are being a little egotistical. Their impatience and greed is a legacy of the years of asset stripping and consumerism. If both law enforcement and journalists are to help develop a better Britain they must take more personal responsibility if Britain is to avoid becoming a more obviously failed state.
Getting the facts, being flexible, and digging in for the long haul are easy when you want something but it's remarkable how people lose their heads when they become too personally involved. The Dali Lama is big enough to acknowledge and thank the Prime Minister for his genuine concern. The police and media could learn from this.
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#64 NuLabourNohope, No it does'nt worry me if you use the term bean or Mcbroon but it would be more fun if you had actually thought of one of these names your self even flashman, I was told by a conservative who was as equally unimaginative as yourself that the nickname Mandy refered to his sexuality and was'nt intended to be amusing atall, I had no intention of attacking you, my letter would have been very different if I had. no I am not in the least interested in your politics thats your choice, but it is a little interesting that Vince Cable crossed the house as well. One sure thing though the only thing in his political career that he is likely to be remembered for is his Mr Bean Joke which I found very ammusing but after several hundred times and used by people who have not got the wit of Vince Cable it becomes a bit tiresome as does your McBroon. I dont think your racist or prejudiced but you are boringly repetative,but there you are if you struggle real hard you may come up with something original. Then we'll all say what a clever boy..
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nulabournohope, i can empathise with someone who was once a labour party member but became disillusioned and left. i have also become disillusioned, but have chosen to stay - after all, a political party is its members, not its leaders. but also i do recognise this government has some achievements to its name, and seem to find myself defending it frequently. anyway, your mistakes about the three day week notwithstanding, there is a point i would like to raise. you said:
28:
Prison Officers
Nurses
Teachers
Police
Mr Bean doubles the amount of tax low paid workers pay.
nonsense- the 10p tax rate meant that anyone earning over £18,500 is better off. the majority of those professions, except perhaps those new to them, earn more than 18,500, and so are better off.
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John Constable - shouldn't you be on the side of the police? :)
The fact that the government broke its promise to the police service about pay is another reason why people have lost trust in it. It was done for political reasons to 'send out the message', that is was being 'tough on inflation, and tough on the causes of inflation' - except when it borrows £2+ billion to solve a problem it created itself and still manages not to do it.
But isn't it a disgrace that a government that spends so much time, and presumably money, on terrorism prevention, won't pay the people charged with protecting us, the money they were awarded?
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Perhaps it's a case of the government being
"Tough on crime, tough on the fighters of crime"
Another home-made and totally unnecessary and avoidable problem.
It looks like the Home Secretary will have to go out for a kebab on her own tonight !
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#90 yes, in theory -:)
I was taking a view of this issue from a different perspective .. which of course, was to point out that the English public do not have any choice with respect to their 'security' service.
They are stuck with the supplied provider, namely, the 'Police Service' no matter how they 'perform'.
However, I do agree that if you submit to independent arbitration, then it is incumbent on both parties to accept the outcome of arbitration.
Government/MP's have been a rule unto themselves for quite some time now.
They deserve the chop ... some would say literally.
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Very well said
69. At 4:05 pm on 21 May 2008, steve2206 wrote:
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#83 My dogs a Jack Russell, and your a Scots i***t, I'm no authority on this but I thought scotch was a drink and a scot was a man or woman from Scotland
#83 please Please dont come back, join the conservatives they could do with a top up since Queinton took the walk , just dont come back.
#76 The internet a wonderful thing, but you must learn how to use it if you want facts.
I'm beginning to have grave doubts that your any of the things you say.
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89# Moderateprogressive
Oh no dont come on this message board with actual facts rather than paranoid rhetoric and misplaced recollections about previous governments, you'll get pilloried. I hope you're wearing a hard hat mate, prepare for the onslaught from those enlightened by the Daily Mail version of the truth.
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The Home Secretary comments that unless jobs are cut any pay rise isn't affordable. The police are ungrateful of their increased numbers and investment, and the government's move to improve work conditions. The police can be too much of a vested interest and voters will be unhappy about more tax rises in a tight situation.
Mouthing off and protest votes are just procrastination. There are realities some people need to wake up to. Getting anal or hysterical about things just makes things worse. I tend to think people are just lashing out because they feel miserable and want someone to blame. Life may not always be easy but it's not that bad.
Putting management, economic, and Buddhist theory aside for a moment, a wise man said that people crave for the light, yet, repell it. Simply, they can't let go of their hang-ups and remain skewered on their own sword. Christian scholars can fill in the blanks but the words are as true today as they ever were.
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Never mind this, I've just clocked Nick down the Blackstock Road in Highbury in a Manchester United top in preparation for the final tonight!!!
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I suppose the upside is that politics is getting exciting again. Those in power - arrogant and deaf to public opinion for so long - are suddenly confronted by the possibility of being booted out by us, the great unwashed. It's nice to see them squirm.
And David Cameron certainly knows how to wind up Gordon Brown (PMQs today). Brown gets angry and flustered and starts spouting statistics. It hasn't done him any favours - do you want 'the man with his finger on the button' to loose his cool so easily?
And Nick, I heard you say you were genuinely shocked by the attack on the Home Secretary at the police conference - you are far too much of a gentleman for this dirty business! - but you do it very well. Now if Gordon Brown had your temperament and your ability to speak plain English things might be different...
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Perhaps they could save money and award the police by instead of using security guards at government installations etc. merely put a picture of Mrs Smith outside, as the site of that old crone is enough to scare anybody off.
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# 97
Yeah, lets dump this political stuff for one evening.
Glug down a few beers and enjoy watchings the Mancs and Chelski kick lumps out of each other, interspersed with hopefully some divine footie.
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Business tries to find ways around law and people are too free to spend on credit. This is as much a reality as any self-serving politician with a tin ear. We all have ego and seeing this or moving beyond it isn't easy.
The Prime Minister was authoritiative and called Cameron on his lack of substance, and Geoff Hoon has refocused on positive campaigning so this looks like a small triumph for more enlightened ways.
Nick is right to be shocked but people can act like wolves when their damaged mind kicks in. Damage begets damage and why, I believe, developing the Prime Minister's vision for a better Britain is so important.
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A comment especially regarding grandantidote.
Firstly - the police pension is not free. We contribute 11% of our salary to the pension scheme.
6 weeks sick pay a year? and most take it if they are sick or not. Not too sure where those 'facts' have come from. Suggest you recheck what we are entitled to, and the average sick record of police officers.
I am a police officer, and proud to do my job. Events in Manchester last week suggest one of the reasons why we are paid as we are. Granted, this is not every day, but officers around the country are abused, assaulted and attacked. Policing the night time economy is an eye-opener. I would love to come to some peoples work on a Monday morning, drunk, giving them as much verbal and physical abuse we have to take.
I fully agree that nurses face shocking amounts of violence and abuse. I fail to understand the mentality of attacking those sent to help you. I know what I was joining and therefore what to expect. I am not moaning about the job. I am not after praise or criticism.
The issue regarding pay, which some seem to have forgotten is that we have no negotiating powers. We can't strike, some, myself included would not strike. What we expect is that when a pay negotiating body/arbitration give a ruling, both sides should agree by it. There has to be an element of integrity especially from those in positions of power. You expect it from us, and if we fail there is a recognised complaints procedure.
Those that seem to think they could do a better job, please join us. Spare 4 hours a week and become a special constable.
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So the bully boys of the union world the Police Federation have started to cut up rough again. With the members voting record if this had been the NUM or the TGWU 15 years ago they would have been hailed as undemocratic and their leaders berated for making such a speech. Perhaps a future government will look at raising their pay and moderating their pension rights as well, I know several ex police officers drawing a pension after 25years and still young enough to take on other jobs.
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Why is is that the Government awarded the teachers pay award in full. Why is it that the Government awarded police staff 2.5 % in full, these include PCSO's and call takers. I have no objection to either of these, it was a decision of an independent arbitration panel and they should get the pay rise. But what do both these group have in common - the right to strike. I wonder why did the Government felt empowered not to pay the police award in full?
Is there some economic rule I am not aware that awarding pay awards to Police staff and teachers will not affect inflation, but if awarded to police officers all havoc would rip loose and inflation would run riot. All the police are asking is a fair deal and the independent body's award granted in full. On this occasion I support the police
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Re:#95
Eatonrifle - well said. I was going to name some of the more frequent offenders. Best not give them the "oxygen of publicity" as their heroine would have put it.
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Hi Nick, I do not wish to join any contoversies about the economy of how fast we shall fall or for how long, but I tend to see what is going on around me and compare.
Look at this Nick:-
May 20 (Bloomberg) -- Investor confidence in Germany unexpectedly fell for a second month in May on concern faster inflation, the stronger euro and fallout from the U.S. housing slump will hurt economic growth.
The ZEW Center for European Economic Research said its index of investor and analyst expectations declined to minus 41.4 from minus 40.7 in April. Economists expected a gain to minus 37, according to the median of 41 forecasts in a Bloomberg News survey. The gauge reached a 15-year low of minus 41.6 in January. A negative reading means that pessimists outnumber optimists.
``Analysts are less certain that the European Central Bank will lower interest rates because the inflation outlook remains a concern,'' Sandra Schmidt, an economist at ZEW, said in a Bloomberg Television interview. ``They are also concerned that continuous high prices will damp consumer spending.''
Germany's economic outlook deteriorated after record food and oil prices sapped consumers' purchasing power, the U.S. economy barely grew and the euro breached $1.60 last month, hurting export competitiveness. The currency rose today after the president of ZEW, Wolfgang Franz, said the ECB may have to ignore the economy's weakness and increase interest rates to curb inflation.
Faster Inflation
German consumer prices rose 2.6 percent in April from a year earlier after jumping 3.3 percent the previous month, the most in 12 years. German producer-price inflation accelerated to 5.2 percent in April, the fastest in almost two years, the Federal Statistics office said today. The ECB aims to keep inflation in the euro region just below 2 percent.
Pessimism in the German economy is outnumbering optimism!
Some food for thought Nick! Good night.
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Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
"I believe, developing the Prime Minister's vision for a better Britain is so important."
Well you must be the only person in the country then.
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#31 Eatonrifle
"Criticising others and highlighting problems has always been the domain of the weak and frankly pointless,"
Is that not exactly what you are doing? You complain about his criticism then highlight the problems. You haven't presented any ideas or solutions like you demand from him.
Physician heal thyself.
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@83 NuLabourNohope talking to grandantidote.
".....Note that your NuLabour team member dhwilkinson has come online - cue dhwilkinson, he appears to be as touchy as you about my use of Mr Bean. Tough!
"
Seeing as NuLabourNohope is not a conservative and is a disgruntled former Scottish labour left supporter helping the Conservatives out. I would guess he must now be an SNP supporter trying to lumber us with the tories so they can win their referendum.
Are you the same person as Ontheperipheral. you both have the same tendancy towards McBroon and Mr Bean. and I have mentioned it to both of them and they both used the term 'Cue.dhwilkinson' in reply.
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Looking at the pic of Jacqui Smith at the top of the page, it should really have "You're nicked!" as a caption
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The information, which had been gathered by the Tories during the campaign for Thursday's by-election, was contained in three Excel files, and was sent in an e-mail to Manx Radio by accident, potentially breaching data protection laws.
The e-mail was received by the radio station at lunchtime on Wednesday.
It sent it on to the local newspaper in Crewe, although it is understood that both emails have now been deleted.
Mr Smith said: "It is a serious concern if people's personal details and voting intentions have got into the public domain.
"Voting information is particularly sensitive. We will be launching an investigation to establish the full facts and see where responsibility lies."
Good night everyone!
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"65. At 3:49 pm on 21 May 2008, grandantidote wrote:
# 48 simple answer to the three day week . your on a computer , just type in three day week and you have the answer not difficult , I just did it it was the Conservatives under Ted Heath that had a three day week."
Since when was ted Heath a Conservative? I know he was leader[sic] of the Conservative party, but he was more of a socialist than Tony Blair. He made a mess of running a socialist tory administration in the same way as Tony Blair made a mess of running a conservative labour one.
We need REAL Conservatives running this country for a while to stop labour's excessive waste and corruption, PC racism and class hatred. I do not know if Cameron is a Conservative or not, but real Conservatives are what this country needs.
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#107 - no many others do. hence why labour have won three elections.
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@111 re: 3 excel spreadsheets sent to the media by "accident".
See even when the tories mess up, they cannot match labour in scale or damage. Labour know how to REALLY mess up properly. Losing the personal data of ALL parents claiming child benefit will take some beating. breaching the data protection of 26 million people is quite a target!!!
Whether it is financial corruption, personal morality, sexual fidelity, incompetence, kicking th epoor when they are down or illegal activities, anything the tories can do, labour can do bigger and more spectacularly.
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113. At 9:26 pm on 21 May 2008, moderateprogressive wrote:
#107 - no many others do. hence why labour have won three elections.
Gordon Brown's labour party have NOT won ANY elections actually! Tony Blairs did, but last time he only just scraped in.
That is also down to constituency boundries favouring labour. If the boundries had been fairly drawn up, then the 2005 election would have produced a hung Parliament with labour having the most seats. Labour had a built in 60 seat majority based on labour and tories getting equal number of votes.
As it was in 2005 labour only just got 22% of the people of the UK to vote labour. That amounted to only 36.5% share of the vote if I remember correctly, hardly a major endorsement. Labour support has plummeted, collapsed and been utterly obliterated since then.
As for developing the Prime Minister's vision for Britain? (a) he should have developed it in crystal clear detail by now, and (b) Most of us have a verygood idea what his vision is, even if he doesn't, and we do not like it one bit.
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Purpledog
So Ted Heath wasn't a Tory
The Tories haven't really lost all the confidential info they've just collected
And the Labour Party haven't just won three elactions (with considerable inluence of Gordon Brown)
Have you been out in the midday sun by any chance?
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Final though for the night:
Sodom (Labour) is done see you Gomorrha.
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As for Cameron and the Conservatives not saying what they would do, with respect, why the hell should they? We are probably 2 years from an election. Cameron will produce a full programme for Government in the Conservative Manifesto for the next election. Until then he SHOULD keep quiet.
If Cameron did make many big announcements (over and above scrapping ID cards, Replacing the human rights act with a common sense bill of rights, giving us our referendum on the EU treaty so long as it has NOT already been legally ratified in all member states, cutting waste, helping families by making the tax system recognise and reward marriage over co-habiting part-time partners, strengthening families, recognising fathers rights, treating our armed forces properly...etc etc,) Then labour would immediately (a) critisice the policy using flawed logic and lies, then (b) steal that same policy and implement it wrongly, badly and incompetently and at great expense, thus making any original problem worse, then (c) lie about it and blame the tories anyway.
If labour really needs the tories to tell them how to run the country, (which is the unspoken admission of this shallow demand) then they should do the decent thing and resign, call an election and let the tories run the country properly.
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115.
well the tories campaigned with the slogan: "vote tony get gordon" or something similar. blair said he would stand down in 2004. i think most people were expecting brown to become the PM fairly soon. having said that, i didnt really mean old gordy especially, i meant the overall policy and vision of the labour government of which brown is only primus inter pares. and also although labour do benefit from FPTP, dont forget there was a high level of lib dem tactical voting, advocated by newspapers of the left. and any government gets a winner bonus; lets not forget Thatcher didnt have an overwhelming mandate when she declared a socio-economic war on parts of the electorate with around 40% of the vote. and then there is major! though i dont like those parallels
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Misunderstandings and personalities can obscure thing but the Prime Minister is known to favour positive outcomes, a fair society, and patience in overcoming difficulties. This is a bit abstract for some so small and practical demonstrations of policy, and a more nuanced and approachable approach to the media would help.
This will help slide under the whirlwind of egotistical frothing and gently develop understanding. Mostly, people just need to see for themselves how to succeed and exist in a more gentle society. At the moment too many people are confused and upset by events but it's just another bubble. It will pop soon enough.
Britain is acting like any mind raving at itself. Arguments and angers arise but when Britiain is exhausted of itself all that remains is emptiness. As with Zen Buddhism, letting go allows serenity to arise and people to live reality directly instead of the celluloid phantoms drawn on the walls of their own mind.
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118#
You really are bitter. Those three general election wins by Labour really smarted eh, time to get over it I think then you'll have chance to reverse the minimum wage, cut investment in the NHS, reduce police numbers back to what they were in 1997, scrap familly tax credits, reduce the the winter fuel payment to 1997 levels (in real terms), scrap plans to link pensions back to wages and reinstate Maggies decision, crank up that inheritance tax threshold (that should help the worse off) denationalise Northern Rock (let it go to the dogs). Can't Wait.
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59:
Actuarial science is not simple, but the point can adequately be illlustrated if you imagine a hypothetical situation where you get no pay rises but there's no inflation
Say you are on £30K
Pension @11% is £3300 p.a.
In 30 years that's £99K
Say you start at 21, so retire at 51.
Your 99K has got to pay 2/3 final salary i.e. £20K
THAT 99K IS ONLY 5 YEARS WORTH. Your life expectancy is probably ~80.
Do you see a problem?
The difference is paid by TAXPAYERS, but it is not funded, it just comes out of general taxation every year, there's no planning or specific provision made.
In utter stark contrast, my company's pension fund is subect to full actuarial valuation every 3 years, and if it is in deficit, my company must plug the gap, by increasing my contributions, but also its own. No such adjustment happens with your pension, we just pay more and more tax. So you are funding a small part of your pensions, I am funding not just mine, but yours. You could be a bit more grateful.....
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@ 116
Ted Heath was never a proper Conservative if you bothered to actually read my post properly, then you would have grasped what I meant. Heath was a tory in the same way that Blair was a socialist!
In other words, to help you understand me, if you want a conservative government to implement Conservative policies, you should elect a Conservative, NOT a phony conservative (with a small "c") like Blair. Likewise if you want a socialist Government, you should not elect the Conservatives under Heath, you should elect a socialist labour government.
Heath was never a real Conservative, for if he was he would never have continued the socialist policies of Harold Wilson. He would have tackled the Union Power as Mrs Thatcher ended up doing.
as for your other point:
"The Tories haven't really lost all the confidential info they've just collected"
Yes they have, but then labour supporters do not have room to crow as it was labour that has repeatedly lost the personal and confidential data of the public, including the personal FINANCIAL details of 26 MILLION parents.
The mistake that happened today was discovered, admitted and corrected quickly. the data was found and deleted and an inquiry immediately announced. Compare that with labour's ommisions, lies and dithering.
Your next point? the three elections: (a) still less than the tories 4 in a row and (b) based on Blair's PROMISES to serve a FULL third term, and a promise to hold a referendum on the EU treaty. Both promises broken at the behest of Brown. The Biased 2005 seat boundries gifting a 60 seat majority to Labour on an equal share of the vote is the only thing that saved labour from a hung Parliament last time. Boundry changes have reduced this in-built bias down to a 48 seat bias now. Even allowing for this pro labour seat boundry bias, Cameron is currently on course to have a 100+ majority.
That is one hell of an achievement by Brown. Labour are truly record breaking. they have managed to motivate more people to protest on the streets against them than the tories ever managed. Even in the height of the poll tax protests, they never got over a million people marching in London in Protest.
Labour managed this twice in 2003 and yet the labour Government still does not listen to the public's wishes.
80% of the public demanded a referendum on the EU treaty, yet where is that mentioned by Brown or his evil minions in their new listening and acting Government?
Labour are finished and I cannot wait for them to be utterly obliterated at the next election.
In the same way that homosexual prejudice is illegal and gender prejudice is illegal and age prejudice is illegal and religious prejudice is illegal, how come class prejudice is not? Is this because this is a kind of prejudice that labour specialise in? as graphically demonstrated in Crewe? Was this the labour party trying to hide their working class hating side? The side that bails out billionaire bankers whilst doubling the income tax on the poorest workers? Then being forced into a panicked knee-jerk solution costing way way way more than the police rise? Yet it is a so-called solution that will not last more than a year and 18 million people will be worse off for that next year.
Labour engage in blatant class prejudice.
Voting labour should be a hate crime.
You may not like to face the facts, but labour are hated, despised and they have hurt a LOT of the population. It is not some accident or freakery that they are 20 percentage points behind the Tories. They lie, cheat, mess up, dither, corrupt and they have been found out. The sooner that they are history the better!
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@ 122
Me bitter? Why would I be bitter at labour?
Doubling the income tax on the poorest and betraying the police on pay, whilst bailing out billionaire bankers might do that? but to the blind, poor hating labour supporters that was social justice I suppose. What about sending fine brave British troops off to be killed in a war based on blatant and deliberate lies? Taxes going through the roof whilst public services are regulated and pen-pushed into exhaustion and politically correct collapse? my pension robbed? my personal financial information misused and lost? my chold's education dumbed down to the point of uselessness. I had to spend hours educating her after school as her school was more of a politically correct indoctrination center than a center of learning. mathematics science and grammar out of the window to make room for touchy-feely PC nonesense. critical analysis ruled out in favour of fashionable theories and PC rulesets. Sleaze, corruption and incompetence on a scale that the Tories could never get near. The constitutional vandalism of risking the break up of the UK so that we can be broken up and handed to the unelected EU oligarchy, without anyone in the UK being given a say. Labour even dishonestly said in the 2005 election that if you want a say on the future of the EU and support labour, then the election was NOT the place for the vote as they pormised the referendum...T Going back on that is clearly the moral equivalent of treason.
Yeah I am bitter, I am Bitter because I care deeply about the UK and the people who live here. UNLIKE LABOUR who bend over backwards to the EU, the billionaire bankers, the workshy, and the most right wing government in the USA in history. The hard working people of the UK always come last to labour and it is time that they were put out of our misery for ever.
Not only am I bitter, but a hell of a lot of others are too. Labour are 20 points behind the tories for a reason. If you cannot see that yet, then there is clearly no rational way to reach you. You live in a delusional world with a rapidly diminishing group of people who think like you.
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@120 "Misunderstandings and personalities can obscure thing but the Prime Minister is known to favour positive outcomes, a fair society, and patience in overcoming difficulties."
He may very well favour those things, but he creates the opposite. That's the problem.
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"well the tories campaigned with the slogan: "vote tony get gordon" or something similar. blair said he would stand down in 2004. i think most people were expecting brown to become the PM fairly soon."
So you are revising history now and claiming that it was labour's policy (based on a tory election slogan) to have Gordon take over during the early part of a Parliament?
So why did Tony repeatedly promise to serve a full third term during 2005 and this was expressly part of their election campaign? Why did labour MP's during that campaign contradict and refute the tory claims of "Vote Tony Get Gordon"?
Or is it the case that labour voters EXPECT and LIKE being lied to?
It was not Gordon Brown that won the election for labour in 2005 any where near as much as it was a fear of getting a Michael Howard version of the Tories and massive tactical voting by the Lib-Dems.
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In view of the very decent treatment of the police by the Scottish Government, which did backdate the pay award of police officers in Scotland in spite of budgetary constraints imposed upon it by the UK government, it is hardly surprising that police in the rest of the UK have it in for the Home Secretary.
I have no sympathy for this woman, who recently refused to attend a conference convened by the Scottish Government on the problem of air guns, a matter considered in Scotland to merit urgent attention. She cited as her excuse for non-attendance the fact that firearms control is a matter reserved to Westminster, which all participants in the conference were of course fully aware of. That is indeed why she was invited.
Ms Smith deserves no sympathy for her ordeal at the hands of the police. Some victims have it coming to them. Ms Smith is one of those.
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This is simple. You can't trust Labour. Whether it is promises to the Police, or the low paid, or on Europe, or on vision.....
They are tired. Give them a rest ... and lock em up for a long time ....
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#89: moderateprogressive
1: During the WINTER OF DISCONTENT the Energy Unions went on strike as consequence British Industry was put on a rolling three day week. Were one week you worked, for example, Mon, Tues and Wed, the following week you worked Wed, Thurs and Fri. I and the rest of Britain worked a three day week during that period. Gloss and spin will not hide that fact!
NuLabour are desperately denying such an event took place. Early 1979, along with the Satchi and Satchi poster - Long queue outside a Job Centre - Labour isn’t working!
28 Should read 26
2: Mr Bean doubles the amount of tax low paid workers pay.
I have two daughters both work hard 35 - 40 hrs/week and often at unsocial hours. Both earn between 10 - 12 thou/yr. Yep Mr Bean DOUBLED the amount of tax they both pay. They have seen their hard earned cash being given to the better off. They have got nothing back!
Now we can add the punch line you so conveniently left out:
NuLabour sure look like they are the party that represents working people.
Another reason I did not return to the blog last night, I spent some quality time with them.
They have asked me to add to the last line - HARD WORKING PEOPLE!
You also mentioned NuLabour membership.
When I walked away Labour lost:
5 Votes
3 Members (Money)
35 year of loyal support, experience and the knowledge I had accumulated.
I was one of those 50% of members who walked away. Considering the above points, what immeasurable losses.
A few years prior to 1979 election a wise old sage from the Labour Party said to me if the Labour Party lost the next election then they would be out in the political wilderness for many years. They were, 18 years.
If NuLabour are defeated at the next election the question is - will there be a Labour Party left.
Sad really!!!
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#113: moderateprogressive
#107 - no many others do. hence why labour have won three elections.
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Well looks like you are long on hindsight short on problem solving.
I will give you some advice; your problems are not the ones behind, but the ONE in front of you!
Sounds a bit like when I frequently went canvassing. When new members used to go round sticking posters on lamp posts etc, the red and yellow ones. Used to tell them we need them stuck in house windows or prominently displayed in front gardens. Lamp posts don’t vote.
You sure are an asset to NuLabour, I fail to see how they can loose with you on board.
Please don’t bother to thank me; I am just a big softy at heart.
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#109: dhwilkinson
@83 NuLabourNohope talking to grandantidote.
Seeing as NuLabourNohope is not a conservative and is a disgruntled former Scottish labour left supporter helping the Conservatives out. I would guess he must now be an SNP supporter trying to lumber us with the tories so they can win their referendum.
Are you the same person as Ontheperipheral. you both have the same tendancy towards McBroon and Mr Bean. and I have mentioned it to both of them and they both used the term 'Cue.dhwilkinson' in reply.
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Last point first - What took so long for the penny to drop.
Next:
I came to England when I was 2. Had not even heard of the SLP until Bendy Wendy kicked off.
Disgruntled former Scottish labour left supporter helping the Conservatives out. I probably hate the Tories as much as you. Having said that Thatcher did give people the right to buy their houses. I have always believed that all people should be encouraged and helped to buy their own house. This I believe would be best way to make people feel they had a stake in GB.
Even though I mentioned it in an earlier blog, changing Clause IV was a move in the right direction. Come on National Companies were a joke, jobs for the boys and sucking money in as though it was going out of fashion. But I believe the answer when NuLabour returned to power was emulate Thatcher in the way she had retained the majority share holding in North Sea Oil. Now we have the worst of all worlds, private monopolies of Britain’s strategic utilities ripping people off!
So Left Tendency - Not a damn chance. In 1997 I thought we were on the doorsteps of Utopia, and would attain a fair and equitable Britain. But all we got was Blair Kingdom, one of the silliest places I have ever lived in.
SNP supporter trying to lumber us with the Tories. Just curious about Bendy Wendy and Alex Salmon. But you have to admire Alex Salmond. In the end it does not matter what I think, the people of Scotland will decide that one!
I can assure you that as far as lumbering you with the Tories, NuLabour are magnificently succeeding in that task, and without any external interference! Not even from the Tories.
Tell you what I have done, I have written the answer to your next comment, regarding me. If I am wrong you will never know what that answer is. Sounds fair to me!
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Re post 122, you do not seem to understand the principle of investment and financial return. I have invested in various stocks, shares and unit trusts over the years and at one time was a financial advisor. I have just looked at some money I invested in perpetual high income 10 years ago, they have tripled in value. So if the police officers had invested their pension in shares over 30 years a conservative estimate would not be £90,000, more like £300,000. This would still probably be not enough to fund a 2/3 pension at age 50 of £20,000, but it would certainly fund £15,000 or so, not such a great shortfall and I do not begrudge them this. (Who wants a 60 year old police officer coming to deal with a thug breakng into their house.) In the private sector this is exactly what pension funds do. The fact the Government choses not to do this but pay pensions directly out of taxation and pension contributions of serving police officers is not the fault of individual police officers
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you may remember that labour were down in the polls, and gordon had to come running to the rescue. and what i meant by the tory slogan is, its indicative of the expectation that after the 2005 general election in which labour won the most votes, brown would take over.
she may have given people the right to buy their houses, and in doing so creating a working class support for herself, but used the funds raised to pay for 3m unemployed!. lets not forget our taxes went in to the housing stock, it was and is a national asset. the problem we have now, which labour has not improved, is that there is a one million waiting list!
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When you want a policeman there none around, now we know why they are all at Bouremouth shouting their mouths off, they should be given ASBO's.
The police have had a good deal over the last ten years, both in numbers and pay, yet like children they want more
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"Your reporter was shocked by the violence (political, of course) that he has just witnessed."
Poor little dear, you must live in a sheltered World. You had better sit down in a darkened room for a while. Just think of the police as a bit like a newsroom of journalists covering a story on their own pay!!!!
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What surprised was that the police didn't emphasise anywhere near enough the gap between their pay demand, and the amount splashed out recently to 'smooth over' the fuss about the Ten Pence Tax Rate.
They did mention the figure of 2.7 billion, but if you say it quickly it doesn't sound that much different to a million...
Let us not forget that Two Thousand Seven Hundred Million is NINETY TIMES the amount the police were asking for to honour the pay settlement of the independent review body.
What is the point of a pay review body if one is n't going to honour it ? It is just a political fig leaf, and better off disbanded if the Home Secretary is just going to 'Think of a Number'.
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This government is selling the police down the river.
If they do go on strike, Labour will only have itself to blame. After their expenses scandal, the 10p tax fiasco and the money miraculously found to bail out the banks, it's about time this government got their prorities right.
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112 pupledogzzz, ted heath was'nt a conservative.114 are you honestly thick nenough to believe that Gordon brown was responsible for the loss of data, nothing to do with the civil servants employed to do these things or a particularly stupid naval officer who thought it fine to leave his laptop with all this information in his car outside his home.
Personel morality and sexual fidelity where would you like me to start about conservatives sexual fidelity how about John Major, Edwina Currie, Tim Yeo,david Mellor, cecil Parkinson and dear old lock up your daughters Alan Clark, shall I go on?
Morality I can give you the names of four leading tories who have been or are currently residing in jail .
Financial corruption and incompetence, ERM slipped your mind.
No sure whether this is yours or the guy who calls himself a Scotch person never ever known a Scot that would do that, but I've led a very sheltered life, you dont in this country vote for a leader E.G. David Cameron, Gordon Brown or Tony Blair.
If you are sensible you vote for a Labour Party if your not sensible you vote for a Conservative Party or perhaps a Liberal party, party being the operative word.
If Iwere you I would contact NULabour NoLabour and have a word about forming a party of you own your both pretty astute or so you try to convince us, you could call it The Nu Purple Daze party, then you could be up on the podium with the other no hopers, like the Monster Raving Loony party.
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132 jordan basset, wrote who wants a sixty year old officer coming to your home to deal with a thug breaking into your house. If they walk with a walking stick most of them would arrive quicker than the mobile police and what about all this paperwork they moan about, what about a bit of community policing, there's plenty of things they could do but then that does'nt compare with that little villa in spain does it.
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# 127 References to the Scottish Government - excellent - but not words you'll ever hear from Gordon Browns lips.
Really, it is amazing how little the English generally know or care about politics.
For example, I bet that relatively few English people know that upon joining the 'Union' way back in 1707, crucially, the Scots kept their own legal system.
That is why when you listen to an item on the 'national' news ... it is often prefixed by "In England and Wales ...".
How long this farce of a 'union' will persist?
Not much longer according to the unfolding political timetable.
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Any one else rather worried about this new terrorist called Ali Ky Eda that El Presidenti Brown kept mentioning during PMQ's?
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What we know about Scotland in England is that it takes you four years to learn at University that which takes us three.
And I thought cold weather sharpened the intellect.
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The speech at the Police Federation surely ends Jackie Smith's political ambitions. It highlighted she was a lightweight without the sense or the courage to stand up to her boss when he was wrong.
The only way Ms Smith can recover is to tell the PM to drop the 42 day detention bill or she will resign. Anything less and she is dead in the water.
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# 142
The evidence would show that it truly does sharpen the intellect, certainly politically speaking.
How else would you explain why we English have a whole bunch of Scottish politicians down here in England running OUR country?
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If the police pension were used to calculate what their full contribution should be, and that were used to calculate their effective salary, how much would the police be earning today in reality? If a pension is deferred pay they're being paid a lot more than they probably realise themselves on top of the massive pay rises and recruitment under Labour.
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138# Grandantidote
I had to warn Moderateprogressive yesterday, don't come on here with facts, it just won't wash, history has been re-written, Archer didn't really go to prison and there was no cash for questions its all in your twisted socialist imagination. And if you think that was David Cameron stood behind Lamont on Black Wednesday then think again!
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141 bradshabi. What a pathetic and ridiculous post, go back to school and do some more name calling, heaven preserve us if your a Tory and if they win the general election [which they wont] is this the sort of intellegence we can expect.its almost as bad as William Hague trying to take the mick out of Gordon Brown for saying Derbyshire which is correct where as most of us say Derbyshur, including Mr Hague bit of an own goal I thought.
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#144
enjoy your moment in the sun
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A damn fine effort by Jan Berry, civil, not servile, and scathing but not rude or insulting.
It is high time that our out of touch and increasingly arrogant apparatchiks were given the facts of life. That it came from the Police Federation is a damning indictment. This current regime increasingly relies on the police to implement its autarchic and repressive legislation, which has seen some breathtakingly arrogant acts promulgated, which have taken away basic rights.
That Brown's government feels it can play fast and loose with such people beggars belief. That it has decided to use £2.7bn of public money as a thinly disguised bribe for the Crewe and Nantwich by-election when it couldn't find £30m for the police pay award says it all.
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#76 nulabour nohope sorry to have to go back this far but you suggested that a new computer would give me a different answer
just tried a friend of mines new computer with Three day week. Winter of discontent.
Nope same answer. conservative government under Ted Heath,AS IF, if I did that old chum I would be as stupid as you.
as I say learn to use a computer ,but judging by your other posts your far to intransigent for it to be of any use to you
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@ #147 - a tad touchy me thinks.
I was just pointing out hat this new threat should be mentioned, I've ehard him mention AlQueda many times, never this Ali bloke.
I could go on and give him a dman good shoing on the mess that he's got himself in, and how he's managed to just blow 2.7billion quid on a tax fiasco which could have been solved just by reinstating the 10p tax band, or not go ahead with the pointless ID card scheme or the genius plan of wasting more money unneccessarily on his ludicrous CCF in state schools plan. Ludicrous because all that needs doing is for the schools to be made to contact the existing cadet forces who are already set up in the local area. Who have well trained and motivated staff, not a bunch of teachers who need to be press ganged into doign something they dont want to do. Get the point?
But no I make a pithy comment about him mispronouncing Al Queda and not about him avoiding answering any questions other than some cravenly sycophantic labour one. "Isnt it true that Labour is working?" Oh please, if thats the best an MP can do for his constiuents, then he/she deserves to be sacked. And that goes for all parties.
However it wasnt a miss pronunciation because of his accent, because he usually pronounces it correctly, its because he's deep in trouble, out of his depth and thinks he just saw a dorsal fin break the water near him.
And for your information, I actually voted labour in our local election because unlike Mr Brown, our counsellor is competant
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138 Grandantidote:
Such powers of wit and wisdom: The nu purple daze party? Hey, that's not such a bad idea. Anyone up for it? Maybe not, I think I'll climb back into my cot, stick my dummy in my mouth and think about it a little longer.
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This Government is causing hardship to the
every day working man and woman especially if you are single, have no dependant children and are under 60.
They have allowed living costs to rise due to higher taxation including Council Tax but flatly refuse to allow public sector pay to rise in linewith their increases. The real
inflation figure is far higher than the one they use. We are being punished ona daily basis and each and everyone of us can see our disposable income disappearing. Then they have the bare cheek to refuse to pay
hard working people such as th police a decent pay rise to keep up with inflation.
The people can only take so much.
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115 purpledogzzz You call a 60 seat majority
scraping in God the Tories would sever a few right arms to get a 60 seat majority,
I am afraid that unlike you I dont have the time or the inclination to spend half a day or night in your case to answer your pathetic manic diatribe. So keep it up we could enjoy a laugh in between the serious posts.
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151 bradshabi. Still not funny.
152 doctor gloom, very funny and all very accurate.
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Grandantidote 155:
Very short, we're very grateful.
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dhwilkinson@83
Are you the same person as Ontheperipheral. you both have the same tendancy towards McBroon and Mr Bean. and I have mentioned it to both of them and they both used the term 'Cue.dhwilkinson' in reply.
NuLabourNoHope@131
"Last point first - What took so long for the penny to drop."(See above)
"I came to England when I was 2. Had not even heard of the SLP until Bendy Wendy kicked off."
You said earlier to grandantidote that you were a scotsman living in England. That doesn't match with you arriving in England when you were 2.
Are you a multiple membership? if you are. Why do you need to type 4 or more messages an hour into 'Have your Say'.
You mentioned a Jack Russell comment that seemed a bit out of the blue. I made a comment about a Jack Russell. Dutchy5 Appeared to call me a Kiwilegs lapdog. They were bikering like a couple of dogs from there back yards at the time. I said that dutchy5 resembled a yapping Jack Russell that had somehow learned to type. Funny how you remember that. Are you following me? I have talked about filibustering the 'have your say ' pages with anti Gordon Brown soundbites previously. is that why?
By the way, I am not part of any New Labour 'Team'. Labour is only a realistic 2nd preference. We need 3 viable parties and a better voting system.
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So the government can't afford the £30 million for the backdated pay.
Funny that they can find £10+ BILLION for id cards, £12+ BILLION for the NHS IT computer system that doesn't work and is 4 years late as we speak.
Ms Smith - What can I say? Utterly useless as a Home Secretary and New Labour - (just a bunch of ....) I'll leave the rest to the readers imagaination.
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123/4/5/6# Got to be the longest rant in history! You should contact the Mail or express, you'd definitely get a job.
And on the subject of "prorests" I assume you mean the anti-iraq war prorests, I know its inconvenient to point out but the Tories supported that.
The year for protests that stick out for me was 1981, 2 years of Thatcher, 3m unemployed, riots in every city virtually.
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If the Police ever did go on strike could we have the retired Miners policing the picket lines. It has never been forgoten what they did to the Miners when they were on strike. getting payed massive overtime payments and waving thier pay slips to the miners and families who had nothing for over a year. Even today the Police get no sympathy from the ordinary people for the shameful way the behaved then and the way they are now. I don't think they will get much support a lot of them are no better than thugs and bullies.
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156# Tell that to Purple dog have you seen 123-126, no doubt that Rantathon meets your approval though.
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#133: moderateprogressive
you may remember that labour were down in the polls, and gordon had to come running to the rescue. and what i meant by the tory slogan is, its indicative of the expectation that after the 2005 general election in which labour won the most votes, brown would take over.
she may have given people the right to buy their houses, and in doing so creating a working class support for herself, but used the funds raised to pay for 3m unemployed!. lets not forget our taxes went in to the housing stock, it was and is a national asset. the problem we have now, which labour has not improved, is that there is a one million waiting list!
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National Asset - Then why have NuLabour carried on Thatchers policy of selling Council houses, for the last 11 years.
Working class - Just wonder how you got that one past your Team NuLabour moderators.
I tend to use “Working people” in this PC riddled land.
The problem we have now, which labour has not improved! - Well what can you say to that, except, I accept your apology.
There is a one million waiting list! - Boy this was a hard one. If NuLabour had stopped selling council houses in 1997: Re National Asset, above.
Common sense really. But there again Common Sense left Westminster by the back door, in 1997, as NuLabour came in through the front one.
Question for you - Why have NuLabour, for the last 11 years, been flogging off Council estates across Britain to PRIVATE so called Social Landlords?
If you get stuck, I will help you in a future blog, after all what are comrades for? Whoops sorry Ex.
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Recently McDuff boasting he was the best man for the job!
McJob, maybe
Ille have fries with that.
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Building stuff is hard but the right tend to create the illusion of growth by cuts and giving the money away. The sale of council houses and factory closures decimated the working class and putting the asset stripping and consumerist genie back into the bottle is a problem Labour are still struggling to achieve after a decade.
Cameron clearly supports the likes of the CBI who want unalloyed power to manage and has hinted at real cuts to services and welfare. The Tories haven't changed because they still haven't learned the lessons of why they were kicked out. They have no policies, no magic money wand, and are fueling national discontent just because they want to be elected.
I'm pretty sure that once this bubble has burst and peoples heads clear they'll probably be horrified at how they acted and greatly relieved they didn't help a Tory government into power. Talk is cheap and can give a quick thrill but when the real consequences are weighed things can look very, very different.
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Anyone want a guess as to how many the Conservatives will win by tonight?
I would reckon a Conservative majority of between 5,000 and 6,000.
Maybe we might get a monumnetal swing to the conservatives and we will all be rid of Gordon Brown before the end of the summer!
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#158: jcarter69
So the government can't afford the 30 million for the backdated pay.
Funny that they can find 10+ BILLION for id cards, 12+ BILLION for the NHS IT computer system that doesn't work and is 4 years late as we speak.
Ms Smith - What can I say? Utterly useless as a Home Secretary and New Labour - (just a bunch of ....) I'll leave the rest to the readers imagaination.
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In August 2004 the Department of Health said the final cost of modernising NHS computer systems could rise to between 18.6bn and 31bn - three to five times the declared figure.
Hey that was almost 4 years ago, shudder to think what the cost is today!
Yep NuLabour costly and wasteful commodity to people today!
One solution: Give the Police, Nurses and Teachers a John Lewis account. After all they benefit society more than the current bunch of buffos at that posh palace in Westminster do.
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#165: Ian_the_chopper
Anyone want a guess as to how many the Conservatives will win by tonight?
I would reckon a Conservative majority of between 5,000 and 6,000.
Maybe we might get a monumnetal swing to the conservatives and we will all be rid of Gordon Brown before the end of the summer!
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Naw, I guess NuLabour will do what they do best - Promise to listen then stick their head in the sand!
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Charles - putting the assett stripping and consumerist genie back in the bottle?
Really, there I was thinking they'd put this country more in debt than ever before. And actively encouraged a "spend now, pay later" culture in the general public.
Still I suppose they've brought back the Railways back into state control and are working on the banking industry.
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Its amazing how ministers can defend the indefeasible.
Isn't these public services workers Labour needs to win the next general election ?
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Some time ago the Labour Party went to great lengths to shed the - Loony Left Labour Party image.
They got rid of the Left, unfortunately they did not remove the Loony.
Yep now we have been left with the Loony NuLabour Party!
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#169: jerlam1
Its amazing how ministers can defend the indefeasible.
Isn't these public services workers Labour needs to win the next general election ?
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Take your point - Police, Nurses, Teachers, but lets not forget the millions of load paid workers on the front line in local authorities, those that don’t have the same benefits as their well heeled bosses.
Perhaps they were part of those that delivered a message to NuLabour at the recent local elections in England and Wales. Worst results for 40 years.
We have not heard anything from their unions. Give them time.
Winter of Discontent - the results to Joe public will be the same!
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I suppose it was inevitable that Charles_E_Hardwidge would try to justify the treatment of the police in England and Wales by reference to their pay and pension scales. That is, of course, not the point. The simple fact is that this government has refused to honour a decision made under an established arbitration procedure. That procedure, which was establsihed precisely because the police have no industrial "rights" like the rest of the workforce, didn't produce the result that the government wanted, so they ignored it. Had the result been to their liking they would have pointed to it as justification for their stance. That is not only dishonourable, it is dishonest. Mr Hardwidge and his fellow travellers can spin it all they want, but the people of England are fair-minded, and even those not normally well disposed towards the police recognise this deceit for what it is, the actions of a morally bankrupt government. I suspect the results in today's by-election will demonstrate their contempt for them rather nicely.
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Nulabourbobhope and Purple Dog.
The Victor Meldrew Twins, god you're soooooooooo tiresome
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Building stuff is hard but the right tend to create the illusion of growth by cuts and giving the money away. The sale of council houses and factory closures decimated the working class and putting the asset stripping and consumerist genie back into the bottle is a problem Labour are still struggling to achieve after a decade.
No wonder you've been given the monicker 'Chuck Hogwash'. waht piffle.
The Labour party were responsible for the culture of entitlement in the 1970s that required the closure of much of our industry to return our competitiveness. Yes, much of industry was 'decimated' in the literal sense; we went to 10% of the numbers in the steel industry to produce twice the production.
As for putting the consumerist back into the bottle; how does eleven years of non stop credit expansion and 125% mortgages under NuLabour's Tripartite system on the watch of the Blessed Leader put the consumerist genie back in the bottle. NuLabour encouraged it because they haven't the faintest idea how to run an economy.
This will be Blair and Brown's legacy - profligacy on a gargantuan scale.
Good effort, lads.
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Big business has developed a risk averse culture and banks have lent money without control. Both business and banks have actively pressured the government who are now being blamed by both now the chickens are coming home to roost.
The cutting of wind farm investment by BP and poor approach by the banks is illustrative of the generic investment and social lack of clue from the masters of the universe. I'm not going to blame them for everything but they have some responsibility.
Looking behind the good and services, and policies and market conditions, you start digging into people's personal view of the world. Rigidity and selfishness in someone's mind creates mayhem and is something I believe they need to address. Zen Buddhism is one way of achieving that.
The Brown doctrine of positive investment, sensitivity to market realities, and the long, long view are key to overcoming a lot of the structural issues at the heart of Britain. It's going to take a while to bite but any short term pain is worth it in the end.
However you cut it, this is better than being a failed state. Developing better industry that doesn't live on bullshit, a sociable society, and a good measure of contentment are good goals but we (that's you and me, buddy) have to haul ass at our end as well.
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173: Eatonrifle
Nulabourbobhope and Purple Dog.
The Victor Meldrew Twins, god you're soooooooooo tiresome
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EatonRifle If this is as good as it gets.
NuLabour and McDuff are screwed!
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In the long, long view of Chuck and Gordon Brown's Britain we'll all be dead.
A return to thrift, hard work and foresight is what is required not the high minded itellectual snobbery of Gordon Brown. This gave us the illusion of affluence but has left us with a mountain of debt.
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*NuLabourNoHope@131"Tell you what I have done, I have written the answer to your next comment, regarding me. If I am wrong you will never know what that answer is. Sounds fair to me!"
dhwilkinson@157 By the way, I am not part of any New Labour 'Team'. Labour is only a realistic 2nd preference. We need 3 viable parties and a better voting system.
*NuLabourNoHope@171
"Some time ago the Labour Party went to great lengths to shed the - Loony Left Labour Party image.
They got rid of the Left, unfortunately they did not remove the Loony.
Yep now we have been left with the Loony NuLabour Party!"
____________________________
*Was that it? as I have said I have nothing to do with the Labour party. I am an independant loony like you.
I am Fed up with the Media manipulating David Cameron and his 'Dont you worry your pretty little heads about the detail!', Negative, Hypocritcal, scaremongering, Environmentalist Petrol Head, Gordon Brown hate campaign Conservatives. I don't like any politicians much. Like most of the country which is so fed up it isn't voting.
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178# Wilco
A breath of sanity and someone who can see how much the media manipulte millions of the gullible.
Well said
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This is exactly the position Gordon Brown is taking but misunderstandings and partisan attitudes from vested interests are getting in the way. Really, the problem isn't and never has been with Gordon Brown but their ego couldn't accept it. However, once ego is taken out of the equation it creates a space for enlightenment to arise.
Very good, grasshopper.
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#178 - isn't that so true. If I find myself listening to the Today programme at about 8.15am I inevitably switch over before the "big interview" with a politician starts. Doesn't matter which party, none of them seem capable of giving a straight answer, or ever admitting that maybe, possibly, they got something wrong...once...ever.
Humility is a trait that seems to be sucked out of people as soon as they walk through the gates of the palace of Westminster. Maybe that is because under such an intense media spotlight they fear that exhibiting anything approaching human qualities will be seen as a sign of weakness; maybe it is because they do us - the voters - the disservice of assuming that we can't reach a conclusion unless we are spoon-fed a wholly one-sided version of the facts; or maybe it is because we as a nation really are that thick.
Whatever the reason, I wish they'd realise that being honest might just be the way to reconnect with the vast majority of people who are so alienated from politics in Briatin today.
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It would be nice to know where Charles_E_Hardwidge comes from.
Is he, perhaps, one of the many "toffs" in New Labour who self-flagellate in public, proclaiming their instinctive feeling for "the people", but sip their champagne in expensive houses while doing so?
C_E_H says that Gordon Brown favours "positive outcomes". Don't we all wish to see better outcomes?
But that shouldn't mean that we reduce the examination criteria to allow many more people to gain higher grades, while in many cases being functionally illiterate and numerically disfunctionally.
This government has bought into advice that in order to manage, you need to measure. No real problems there - except that it is important to understand which aspects of a process need to be monitored and how the measurements can be applied to deliver success.
When GPs and hospital consultants told HMG that they were going over the top, did Brown consider that he was embarking on pay rises that were out of kilter with what was needed? Of course not.
When the FSA were made aware that Northern Rock had a basket-case business model, did GB insist that they took appropriate action? Of course not.
Do you really think that Northern Rock would have been bailed out had it been a London or SE based company? Of course not - after all, Blair had headed a football with Kevin Keegan, so that would have meant denying the "grass roots" appeal of New Labour.
When the armed forces said they needed greater investment to support some pretty wild ventures, did GB respond with multi-billion injections to get them through? Of course not.
When HMG decided that putting criminals in jail could cut actual crimes, did GB free up and "invest" in more jails? Of course not.
When GB came to his "rightful position" and declared that he would not engage in "spin", did we expect that he would resist the temptation to hire many expensive "advisors". Of course not.
Brown witters on about taking thousands of children out of poverty. That's based on a totally relative measurement, changing year by year and taking no account of whether a household has expensive TV/DVD/car or other gear in the home. No questions about whether they could afford to eat, heat the home, etc as applies to many pensioners. Do you really think he has got the balance right? Of course not.
I doubt that GB will be as venal as Blair when he has to leave office. Few could be. But he could have had the grace to step in and stop the appalling "Toff-baiting" performance in Crewe. For God's sake, the Deputy PM, Harman is the niece of an Earl. Doesn't stop her being a real pain in the a**e. Did you imagine GB would intervene? Of course not.
The 10p tax issue was simply a bit of stupidity. Yet another. Would you have expe4cted that, after years of Brown and Balls nonsense? Of COURSE.
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Ego?
The only person with an ego problem is Gordon Brown. He can't accept that there is anyone else who could possibly sort out his mess. He won't accept the failure of the Tirpartite system and the Northern Rock. He won't even contemplate the failure of the education system where universities now won't accept McQualifications.
This is ego and egomania more like.
He constantly boasts about his achievements but these include turning a blind eye to party funding, the failure of no less than ten NHS reviews, bloated PFI schemes that regularly bust (Metronet).
You can't take the helm and not be accountable. Gordon thinks deifferent.
I look forward to the verdict of the electors of Crewe and Nantwich on Gordon's 'Ego'.
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Grandantidote: Enjoy your beloved labour party being in opposition, they will be there for a very long time. You may be able to excuse labour kicking the working classes when they are down, reducing social mobility, the rich getting richer whilst the poor get poorer.
Labour sold out completely to rich foreign bankers, the EU, the USA. They have constantly put the working and middle class majority in the UK last in everything, except when they want new taxes, then they turn to their cash cows and milk us some more and then waste those proceeds.
Enjoy opposition, for that is ALL labour is worth, and it took them 15 years last time to become any good at that!
I should be kinder to you, seeing as you (a labour supporter) are an endangered species now. but then if you still keep supporting those envy driven bigots, then you deserve to be on the losing side.
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"115 purpledogzzz You call a 60 seat majority
scraping in God the Tories would sever a few right arms to get a 60 seat majority,"
No, I was saying that labour had an in-built 60 seat majority due to the seat boundaries. If labour and the tories both got exactly 35% of the vote in 2005, then labour would still have had a 60 seat majority PURELY because of the boundaries. When in a fair system, equal votes would mean a hung Parliament and equal number of seats to both parties, so labour scraped 7 seats worth more votes than the tories. THAT is what I meant by scraped a 60 seat majority. it was NOT a major endorsment for labour, in fact it was barely an endorsement at all. The 67 seat majority did NOT reflect the feeling in the country in 2005 and that vote should have resulted in a hung Parliament.
Just to show that I am writing about facts I also know that the Boundaries favoured the Conservatives during the 1980's. Again this was unfair, but it is how the system is.
Labour supporters have been foolish to read too much support into the 2005 result. only 22% of the UK supported labour in 2005 and this was the only national election that labour has won since 2002. It will be the last one for a good long time too because labour are incompetent, corrupt, cruel losers.
Maybe you have not noticed, but labour are now 20 percentage points behind the tories. Deal with it!
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This is a disease the British have caught. People have developed a rigid and out of touch approach because they've been caught up in a hyper-competitive game. Admitting you may be wrong or not totally in tune has become impossible in the winner takes all black and white world we're living in. This is why developing a measure of humbleness and sensitivity in small things and persisting is useful. It helps people begin to develop new ways in a low risk way.
The depressed mind and recession are similar things are part of the same loop. By letting go of cast iron thoughts and letting the uncontrollable current of emotion slide by, people can begin developing a more playful and sociable approach, and personal and national economic success is more likely to arise. And if it doesn't, who wants to be miserable and stuck in a recession?
Being honest, or getting real is key to Zen Buddhism. Too often, we tell ourselves lies or bear grudges. We may think we're better or worse than we really are, or someone hates us when they don't, but it's just our imagination playing tricks. We have to live in reality whether we like it or not so it's better to let go and live it in all its glory. After all, why not? You owe it to yourself.
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@ 164
"The Tories haven't changed because they still haven't learned the lessons of why they were kicked out."
Labour have not learned the lessons of why they got the worst election results for over one hundred years, a historical pasting by the electorate, at the start of this month.
I am still amazed at the people on here who defend the labour leadership, in the same way that a beaten wife will defend her abusive husband.
Labour do nothing for the poor except increase their numbers and dependency on the state whilst decreasing their wealth and opportunities.
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#178 + #157: dhwilkinson
I got the answer wrong.
Jack Russell - To give you a short answer I trolled all the previous blogs on this board.
Knowing your oponent is invaluable.
When I came onto this blog earlier i came on with an open mind.
After reading GrandAntidotes blogs he reminded me of one of the reasons why I left NuLabour.
Hence my style today thus far.
I will answer your questions but I do need some time to digest your questions.
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I listened with great interest to the speech by Jan Berry and it was certainly very impressive.
However I cannot help but think the police force and I support them heart and soul are not becoming a tad like some militant teachers.
They have had good rises all the time Labour have been in power.
And yes I think that Labour should have honoured the agreement.
However I was very satisfied by the answer of the Home Secretay, had she backdated that rise it would have opened up the floodgated for others it just does not stop there.
If one body of people are seen to be having there own way the rest will follow.
Bear in mind Salmond in Scotland gave the Police force the full rise, just to be contrary, then they were unable to employ extra officers.
To compare the loss with what the police had against the correction of the 10p tax mistake is not only selfish it is downright silly.
I think Jan Berry needs to reflect on this.
She can stand and spout to her hearts content Jacqui Smith has to balance her budget.
The police are not that hard done by. I think they should remember the kitty has only so much in it and as money is made round to go around so is the tax take in this Country.
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I have it on questionable authority that C_E_H works for Hazel "The Midget" Blears. Apparently he got the job because he is the only one in the office who doesn't need a cushion to see over the top of his desk and so using his computer is somewhat easier for him. (Hazel has a laptop as she can't reach a proper computer keyboard). He will probably get a £400K payoff for repetitive strain injury like the woman in the RAF recently, so often does he contribute to this blog.
Unlike the rest of us, I understand that C_E_H has unlimited access to Labour Strategy documents, all 2 A4 pages of them. Apparently they are printed double space in very large type so that a child can read them. Alas, not children in this country, or at least not 20% of them.
C_E_H also, I am informed, is briefed by spin doctors every couple of hours on the latest Brown platitudes and U-turns so that he can try to persuade we unintelligent voters that Labour is the best thing since sliced bread, and that we should be very pleased indeed that Saint Gordon is our leader.
So come on Charles, deny it if you will. Or even better, tell us who you are and what you do to believe in what you purport to believe.
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179# Eatonrifles.
Thank heavens for a dose of sanity.
I have been banging the drum regarding the manipulation of the press for a long time I am glad that others are starting to see it now.
Whether one supports him or not, Gordon Brown has has to sustain the most vicious attacks from the right wing press as well as all the Murdoch organisations. It has become blatant they do not even try to disguise it.
No one person can fight this, not even the PM it is both nasty and vindictive to say the least, so we have to wait for it to subside or to allow the gullible to come to their senses.
The last time one filthy rag of a newspaper, (no prizes for guessing which stable it came out of, I have to be mindful of the regulators on this site) tried this on with labour supporting people they ended up having to make a full front page apology to get their ratings back up, I can see this happening again. The sooner the better in my book nothing concentrates the mind like sharp falling sales. Money will always speak volumes.
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#190
Ha, ha! if that's true I will split my sides.
Best thing that ever happened to Hazel was David Hockney referring to here as 'dreary' about the smoking ban. he did us all a favour and reminded us that calling her dreary was a complient too many.
It's been obvious for some time that Chuck Hogwash was some kind of NuLabour apparatchik of the 'ever mind the facts, what about the rhetoric' variety.
Problem is they can't get away from the facts of their own making - highest indebtedness, biggest spin machine, lowest opinion polls ever, most unpopular leader, failed reforms, busted banks, broken dreams and all with OUR cash.
Give it back please and hand over the keys to someone more competent who doesn't dither over every decision.
Chuck bleating that NuLabour and Gordon are trying to persuade us of the benefits of thrift, hard work and foresight? What? Record numbers claiming benefits, record levels of indebtedness and 2.7bn of cash to fix an election and they believe in thrift? Give me a break.
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141#
If you have ever been to Scotland or had Scots friends you would find that this is the way Scottish people make the pronounciation.
Now I see your remarks as slightly racist and if they are you ought to be ashamed.
Now only is the Scottish accent most beautiful some Scots speak far better English than a lot of our people. One only has to listen to the people from the Isle of Sky to hear an accent that is better than what was always known as BBC English.
Do not be so quick to condemn that which is different, it adds to our society not detracts.
It adds nothing nor takes nothing away from any debate and it is very petty to boot.
Argue politics not people's quaint ways and customs they are all what makes the UK great.
There is nothing nicer than our regional dialects. I would hate to see anything change,
refrain from being petty minded.
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Posters question why it is virtually impossible to get 'straight' answer from most of our politicians.
If we can put aside that the nature of the job itself in a democracy involves all sorts of trade off's and fudges between various competing pressure groups, then what are we left with?
The Party system.
Once the individual has joined 'the party', he or she effectively surrenders a huge chunk of one's independence, for the sake of 'party unity', singing from the same hymn sheet', 'maintaining the party orthodoxy' and all the rest of it.
That is why you virtually never get a 'straight' answer, except from the very few party 'mavericks' such as Frank Field.
Of course, you'll almost always get a decent answer from an independent MP's, e.g. people like ex-MP Martin Bell .. but most folk seem to have been brain-washed by party dogma/marketing/branding.
Why not be free-thinking?
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191 kiwilegs
Some of us tend to believe that the press are , on the whole, correct in their attitude towards Brown. Only Labour supporters, who are in the minority, believe otherwise.
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193: Kiwilegs
141#
If you have ever been to Scotland or had Scots friends you would find that this is the way Scottish people make the pronounciation.
Now I see your remarks as slightly racist and if they are you ought to be ashamed.
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141. At 10:32 am on 22 May 2008, bradshad1 wrote:
Any one else rather worried about this new terrorist called Ali Ky Eda that El Presidenti Brown kept mentioning during PMQ's?
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Afraid your on the wrong blog.
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mikepo ,Yes as a Tory I would expect you to see it that way I however have been watching this situation develop for quite some time now and believe me I am not wrong.
Just look in the Press yourself and make absolutely sure of your facts because I beg to differ.
Perhaps you can type anything positive you have read in the press regarding Brown say over the last week only without the exception of the Daily Mirror.
Please try!
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Charles_E_H confirms my fears. He writes that "Admitting you may be wrong and not totally in tune has become impossible...".
Not in the real world.
That happens every day in companies, where people have to accept that some things aren't right, get a kicking and either get chucked out or are told to get on to try and resolve things.
Brown must have known more than a year ago that his dumb change of the tax bands would create real probloems. Did he return to reconsider? NO.
Did he say there was no problem? YES.
What is the sound of one hand clapping? The electorate applauding GB for his masterful management of the UK economy?
I don't think so.
You may think it has been wonderful for years. Reality says it has been a disaster.
When he next gets up to state that "under the Tories, interest rates were at 15% and inflation was a disgrace", perhaps he will say for exactly how long interests were that high and what was the actual inflation rate when he took over. (Less than now, needless to say.)
Maybe he will comment that, under a Labour government, inflation was over 20% just before the IMF had to intervene.
Maybe he could explain why the nationalisation of British enterprise led to the mess that lasted until Thatcher (loved or hated) got a few things right.
Maybe he can explain why "investing" in public service jobs (re-cycling money in the name of "growth") is better than getting more money into British industry.
Has he noticed that our balance of trade is at the highest ever levels of deficit? And has never been positive since New Labour came to office?
If Zen requires acceptance - then just accept that NewLab has wrought more destructive damage than anyone would have believed possible.
You want relativive change? OK, but just check out with A level students of geography whether they know where individual countries are - and the languages spoken there. Then test them on the "facts" about global warming. You will find most have very little clue about the geo-physical world, but plenty to say about the popular theories.
Equality of outcome is impossible. Equality of opportunity is absolutely what we should all seek.
Accepting whatever crap the "ruling class" - however well meaning - pour over you may be a good Zen Buddhist tenet. Just doesn't cut it for UK citizens fed up with a bad government living within a remote, over-paid and out-of-touch EU framework.
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I'm just a Zen Buddhist with a perspective on politics and some sympathy with Gordon Brown. Anything beyond that is just speculation and gossip. Entertaining as it is it's better to nuke it before it gets out of hand.
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197 kiwilegs
I can't think of anything positive to say about GB over the past couple of weeks so why should the press.
You only have to look at PMQs to see why. He is just horribly defensive, nothing positive to say, treats David Cameron as Prime minister already by asking"him" questions rather than answering questions put to him The only questions he does answer are those put by "tame" Labour MPs. Its all so obvious. In fact GB looks a poor excuse for a PM.
Going back in history (and you can check the Labour website) the term Prime Minister was coined as a term of abuse for the First Minister of the time. Draw you own conclusions as to if it is relevant today.
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Kiwilegs #189:
You have fallen into the same trap as so many. The argument is not about how much the police are paid, the dangers inherent in their job, or how many pay rises they have had under Labour (in fact only the ones each year that have been justified under the same arrangement now being ignored; one that was previously honoured by both Labour and Conservative governments, so no favours done to them by any party). The police are forbidden by law from taking any form of industrial action (unlike the fire brigade who are once again threatening strikes). This puts them at a serious disadvantage in wage negotiations with the employer (ie government). In recognition of this situation, an established procedure, which has served both sides well for a generation, was put in place. Everybody knew where they stood. A simple enough matter for anyone you would think.
The outrageous behaviour of the government in refusing to abide by this long-standing arrangement, despite the adjuciation of the independent tribunal in favour of the full 2.5% rise, has poisoned relations between police and government. This is not a healthy state of affairs for the nation. The granting of the full amount in Scotland only deepens the feeling of anger amongst officers in England and Wales. It is cynical of Smith and Brown to pretend that the small amount in question is important in respect of tackling inflation. (No such problems with MPs expenses, or bailing out a private bank, or a failed railway company, or compensation for taxpayers after a budgetary cockup). What is important, however, is being able to trust government to play fair with a body of people who, like it or not, are a special case. Even nurses and doctors can - and have in the past - take industrial action. It is a criminal offence for the police to even threaten it.
I hope that the courts insist that government is in breach of its contractual obligations towards the police in with holding the full award. 1st september is the date the award was due. 1st September is the date from which it should be paid. If Brown cannot be trusted on that, why should we trust him on anything else?
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196, well pardon me I thought I was on a BBC blog-site that covered the whole of the United Kingdom.
Can you please tell me what site I should be on and does Scots not also have to pay for the small matter of a TV licence?
I do know they have BBC Scotland but that only comes into force after the main bulletin.
Perhaps you can advise me otherwise with your superior knowledge of all things Scots and English..
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199 C_E_H
"just nuke it"
Is that Labour policy or Zen? A bit worrying either way.
The last time I had a conversation about nuking was with - yes you've guessed - a Yank who said
"The Russkies need sorting out and we should nuke them now"
over the Afghan war in about 1980. He frightened me then just as George Bush does now.
So no more nuking please.
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Re post 189 I agree with much of what you say, but re opening the floodgates I think the problem is the different rules applied to different public sector workers.
My partner is a nurse in Wales, last year she recieved a 2.5% pay rise as awarded by the independent pay award body. Her fellow nurses in England got it staged so only got in effect 1.95%. This was because Brown was worried about inflation, apparently pay rises in Wales do not cause inflation.
Last year recommendations from the School Teachers' Review Board,were implemented in full and teachers got 2.45%. Apparently teachers pay rises do not cause inflation.
Last year police staff (PCSO's call takers, admin staff) got the full 2.5% pay rise as recommended by the independent pay board. Apparently police staff pay rises do not cause inflation.
Last year police had their pay award staged and only recieved 1.9%. Paying police officers apparently causes inflation. Except in Soctland, where it was awarded in full
I could go on through out the public sector and the differences in pay awards in the year 2007. Sometimes independent pay tribunals are implemented in full, sometimes they are not. This situation is not fair. Either give all the award of an independent pay tribunal or reduce it for all. Inflation is not discretionary!
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200 mikekpo.
No, No, No, I am sorry there is a hidden agenda here.
Do not ask me to go into it AGAIN at the moment I have covered that self same ground umpteen times.
If you are that interested go back on the last 4 threads you will see my reasoning.
Tonight I cannot be bothered
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I've had issues with a household name supplier and was discussing it with someone on the CEO's staff only yesterday, and got the company line and "we did nothing wrong" routine. I can quote similar examples from a local company and a local high street store I've had issues with.
It happens all the time and I'm not the only person I know who's experienced it. I'm not saying everyone does it all the time but there's enough of it about to be an issue and when it does happen it's a pain in the ass. Newsgroups, forums, and blog comments sections are full of it as well.
If you read almost any book on psychology or group dynamics you'll find the mechanism, reasons, and examples are documented fairly well. Being aware of it and why it happens helps, and taking some personal responsibility can help ease or prevent problems arising.
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205 kiwilegs
Sorry to have hit a raw nerve.
Its not the first I have experienced today. A married couple (no kids) told me, with feeling, about how much worse off they are after the 10% fiasco, and how they want to get out of the Uk because they feel things are so bad here.
Yes, yes, yes, just a failing PM who really doesn't deserve any sympathy.
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malcolm 201.
Malcolm I could lecture you on the Police Force I have two brothers who were policemen.
Both now retired one just recently.
Please take it from me they are not short.
They enjoy damn good pensions and yes I do know of the dangers of the job.
I also know that they are given a lot of allowances and a lot of frills that the general public do not enjoy.
I also know only too well about the non-strike agreement.
However one question I would like you to answer me.
When did you hear that David Cameron would have granted this rise in full at the time?
I heard one of his MP's say so Wednesday night on TV but when the situation at first arose Gordon Brown pressed him on this, his stock answer was this is supposed to be PMQ's a very useful easy get out. He uses that quite often to get out of the spot
Yes I think they ought to have had it ,but yes I also agree with the Home Secretary about floodgates, I like the police would like my cake and be able to eat it also, but after all after all we are only talkin about a small percentage.
I doubt very much if we will see many policemen running about the UK with their backsides hanging out of their trousers because they cannot afford a new pair due to the fact the the Home Secretary would not grant them their backdate.
Do you?
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207#
Sorry I cannot accept that.
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#199: Charles_E_Hardwidge
#6. At 3:14 pm on 07 May 2008, Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
By allowing itself to be torn between the policy glitz of the SNP and the new found chumminess of the Tories, Labour has found itself fighting on two fronts. By condensing their policy initiatives down to the most simple and sociable long-term strategy they magnify their own strengths tenfold and neatly divide their enemies who will turn on themselves. Whether accidental or deliberate this is the essence of political genius.
Thatcher wasn’t a great visionary and handed Britain over to the asset strippers. Blair wasn’t the strictest policy wonk and handed Britain over to a consumer explosion. Meanwhile, Gordon Brown has vision, sensitivity, and his recent trials have taught him the value of well formed presentation and personal charisma. Unlike his predecessors Gordon Brown is almost perfectly positioned to develop governance that properly unites the head of government and the heart of the people.
[*] Shogun Iyasu Tokugawa is notable for unifying the 7 kingdoms of Japan into a seamless whole. Before the rule of Ieyasu Tokugawa women could be samurai. After Ieyasu Tokugawa cemented his position, he banned women from holding the position of Samurai which lasted until their abolishment. One suspects a similarly brilliant but wayward madam annoyed the Shogun but that’s merely speculation on my part.
---------------------------
Above is a copy of an earlier posting of yours from another blog board.
After so many trips down the lane to meet the fairies at the bottom of the garden with you I find, believe it or not, I fully understand your last paragraph about the Japanese car. But I cannot, try as I may, get my head round your first two paragraphs. Please can you expand!
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mikekpo.
Gordon Brown is not failing. We are hitting a lot of turbulence.
It will balance out in time.
I have even heard of some fools who think that if Labour loose tonight in the by election there will be a leadership challenge.
How silly is that?
We will come through this downturn and it is bound to correct itself inside of two years.
Today it has been reported that the price of barrel of oil has now reached saturation point.
Once the price of oil comes down, haulage charges are lesser, food in the Supermarkets become cheaper and everything levels out.
People feel able to spend again and the economy picks up, this is where the problem is at the moment not Gordon Brown.
Wait and see a week is a long time in politics 2 years a lifetime.
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I was absolutely appalled by the behaviour of Jan Berry. Her personal jibes and sneering attack on Ms Smith did nothing to advance the Police case for an increase in pay. Its probably a good thing she is retiring if this is the way she gets her point across. I have an old friend who has been in the police force for 20 years he will retire in about 5 years with a significant payout and one of the best pensions in the public sector. Im fed up of hearing the Police pleading poverty
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I generally feel the same about Britain and have taken foreign language lessons as part of my relocation plan, but I blame big business and a greedy society. Do you seriously believe the Tories and Murdoch are on your side? If anything, I see Gordon Brown as the last chance Britain has to get a grip on itself before it implodes into being a fully paid up failed state. If Gordon Brown is removed that will play straight into their hands and, well, we're into tears before bedtime territory. I could be wrong but I don't think so.
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I've been on a high ever since Boris kicked out Red Ken.
Watching Nu-Labour self-destruct is like watching one of those slo-mo movies of car testing where the crash-test dummies get a real bashing - but with the added joy of knowing that the dummies in this case - after a decade of misrule - are not blameless.
As for Gordon Brown: he's [politically] a dead man walking. Anyone that still supports him (or even considers that he has any merits or virtues as a person) is as delusional as he is.
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Does anyone remember the BBC news article shortly after NuLabours drumming at the recent local elections.
------------------------------
Voters are confused about what Labour stands for, says Minister John Denham as a poll puts the party on 23%.
Mr Denham also made a plea for Labour to put the south of England at the heart of its next election campaign
I think the following says it all:
Labour's gains in the South of England were a key factor in its three successive general election victories. But there were signs at last week's local elections that its support had collapsed, as it lost control of key councils such as Reading and saw the Tories seize power in Southampton, in Mr Denham's own back yard.
------------------------------
Hey - he thinks were confused!
The only confusion will be for those NuLabour MPs who sit in marginal seats.
Wonder how McDuff will deal with those malcontents?
Looks like anyone living north of the Watford Gap will be screwed by NuLabour at the next election!
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mikepko
"I can't think of anything positive to say about GB over the past couple of weeks so why should the press.
You only have to look at PMQs to see why. He is just horribly defensive, nothing positive to say,..........."
Have a go with David Cameron and the Conservatives then. or is it just which party is least incompetent?. I think so.
The smallest, weakest animals use aggression as a form of defence. Given Camerons performances in PMQs I would say he is the most defensive.
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209 and 211 kiwilegs
Obviously you can be bothered. But what can't you accept - GB doesn't deserve sympathy or the couple are worse off and want to leave the UK?
Regarding things getting better with oil prices dropping. Cloud cuckoo land, me thinks!
By the time oil prices drop, if they do, the £2.7billion bribe will have been withdrawn in 2009 - 2100 tax year, so we will all be worse off and guess who will be blamed, if he is still there.
And if he's not we will have another un-elected PM which won't go down well with the electorate.
QED
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#214: ScepticMax
Yep I got that rush as well
Below is a blog I put on HYS before the event. Under IndigenousCabbage
-------------------------
Who will win the London mayoral elections?
SENT:
02-May-2008 09:15
COMMENT:
I hope Boris wins.
After the drumming NuLabour have got at the local elections - this will be the icing on my cake.
And it couldn’t happen to two nicer people Red Ken and Mr Bean.
-----------------------------
Your handle sounds familiar, have you blogged on HYS?
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217, I also did say if you cared to look back on previous threads you will read chapter and verse my reasoning which I am certainly not going back into.
Just look if you wish to be informed, if not do not bother.
One thing though you do give me a reply unlike a very jealous female on another blog-site, quite unable to take me head on she allows others to know I am either an anigram of kiwilegs or wilki.
I just wish she had the bottle to challenge me on this site and we will see where it gets her.
She has failed miserably in the past after a good many years perhaps my break away from another blog-site will have given her a bit of backbone which she sadly lacks as of now.
We can all live in hopeful bliss can we not?
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Kiwilegs, and Olafblunt:
The police are not pleading poverty, they are fairly paid for the job they do, and the restrictions on a normal life with which it comes (which few other workers would accept). I spent 30 years doing the job and I know all about that. The point is that if this agreement is so casually thrown away by the government today, what guarantee do the police have that it will not be ignored tomorrow, or every other time that the government want a scapegoat on income? They won't pick on the groups (like the teachers) who can and do threaten industrial action, so they pick on the group that has no legal redress. That is not only dishonourable and dishonest, it is cowardly. The amount of money is small (to both sides) but the principle is huge. Either the police can rely on the government abiding by their side of a long-standing agreement, or the police should be treated like every other group of workers and allowed to take industrial action. The government can't have it both ways, and neither can you. I know which option I would prefer.
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NuLabourNoHope @218,
Yes I have.
I must say that I've given up trying to hold a rational debate with lefties in denial (or even understanding the pseudo-tosh of Chuck E Hogwash). Instead I just ridicule.
Schadenfreude is a wonderful thing.
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220 Malcolm.
Point taken very fair comment I cannot argue with your findings.
Somehow or other though I doubt very much if it will happen again and from what I could gather from the Home Secretary it could even be corrected sooner than later.
I did listen to her comments in full.
Good Night.
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Think KiwiLegs has lost it.
Second time she has replied to someone elses blog comments they did not write.
Must be NuLabours new strategy.
Kiwilegs - PLEASE READ Blog 221!!!!!
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So Nulabnohope or indgenous Cabbage (appropriate) and whatever other numerous names you feel you need to use.
You wanted Boris Johnson to win power in London, don't suppose you live there.
Just who do you want to win the next GE. Try to answer this if you're capable, by saying what this party will bring as benefits to the uk rather than simply refering to your hatred of GB and the labour party.
eg We'll increase the inheritance tax threshold to £1m
you know things like that but see if you can do it without the predictable "mcbroon" garbage,
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Could we please have a graphic that shows the percentage of the possible vote as well as the percentage of votes cast. That way we can get a more accurate picture of this so called Conservative revival.
This is ridiculous. If you were an employer interviewing candidates for a job and all they did is slag off the other candidates. You would tell them to get lost. That is what is happening 50% of people are not voting. True you cant tell if this is laziness. But you also cant tell what people actually want to vote because our voting system leads to tactical voting.
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Kiwilegs: "Perhaps you can type anything positive you have read in the press regarding Brown say over the last week only without the exception of the Daily Mirror.
Please try!"
I remember issuing a similar challenge to a labour supporter about John Major in the run up to the 1997 election.
the point is, once a party has shown through it's own incompetence and dissaray and cowardice and malice that they are unfit to govern, and it is clear from a national election result that the party is very very unpopular with the voting public, then the media has little choice to reflect that truth. If any paper started writing stories supporting Brown or making allowances, even generally pro labour papers like the Observer/ Grauniad, then they will lose in the market place. without readers reading the paper, advertisers will not pay for the adverts and then the paper goes bust.
in the mid-late 90's even the blatantly tory press turned definitively against the tories as they had deserted their core support by allowing the property to overheat and collapse, their arrogance and tired assumptions and sleaze where too much to take and they were rightly kicked out. Even though they had repaired the economy, and they handed a healthy economy to the incoming labour party.
Unfortunately we now have the position that whatever the tories can do badly, labour can do even worse.
That healthy economay has been utterly wasted in the 9 years that labour have had any say in how the economy is governed. Remember that Gordon kept to tory spending plans for the first 2 years of their government. he had the sense back then to not trust himself with interest rates as well as taxation. the economy over the last 11 years has been run largely by the bank of England. being a bank they do what banks do best....lend money that they have invented out of thin iar and charge interest on it. This excessive lending is what has ruined the economy. Brown didn't mind so much when the borrowed money artificially boosted the economy, now the profligate lending has to be repaid, it's suddenly someone else's fault.
The media have turned against labour because they are totally unfit to govern.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I am sorry most of my posts are too long, but when it comes to what is wrong with labour....
The way they have betrayed their core supporters and turned their party into a sick cariacature of the old nasty tory party is indefenseble.
I know some labour supporters here cannot see that and like a beaten wife defending her abusive husband, will always crawl back to the abuser looking for more abuse in the belief that they must, some-how, deserve it and do not deserve anything better. The disconnect between what they write and reality is quite sad to read.
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NuLabourNoHope
So is that 3 memberships you have?
OnThePeripheral, NuLabourNoHope, and idigeounouscabbage? 6+ messages an hour on "Have your say" website an hour. How many others do the same? No wonder the thing gets flooded with rubbish whenever Labour,Immigration or the Northern Rock is mentioned.
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Charles_E_H makes a strange comment, wondering whether we think that "... Murdock is on our side".
No idea about that.
But he was certainly on the side of Blair and "the project", after the previous beloved leader kow-towed so low that Murdock could walk behind him and check out Blair's tonsils.
Do private companies respond well to fialures? Not as well as they should.
But the recent fiasco at Heathrow's Terminal 5 delivered a few positives. BA chucked out two senior directors and the BAA got rid of a CEO.
Brown claims credit for "seeing us through" the flood disasters. Maybe he went for a stroll and made some promises - but local authorities are still waiting to be paid the money he promised to help those who suffered.
DEFRA completely messed up payments to farmers in England - and were fined £300Million by the EU bureaucrats. Did the minister resign? Fat chance.
ID cards (which the law currently says will not have to be carried) have about as much chance of "preventing terrorism" as an ant with a flag has of stopping a stampede of elephants. Some proposed features simply don't work. Some "fraud limitation" aspects could only be applied if every point-of-sale were equipped with readers attached to a central database. Cost? Enormous. Benefit? Minimal. Responsibility taken? ZERO.
Brown invented or sponsored most of the tax-credit schemes. So you take money away from people, re-cycle it expensively through a public "service" and give it back to them... Except that he and his mates made it so complicated that we seem to "lose" GBP 1 Billion per annum.
I can believe that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, but when the citizens realise that they were only temporaily blinded, the king better have a good account of his stewardship.
Does this one have? No.
Can you blame him alone? No.
Blair and Brown were a pair of feuding brothers who were forced to share a pair of trousers.
Each, in his own way, managed to get the worst out of this country.
A plague on both their houses.
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229#
multiple identities. Speaks volumes, if there's no one else arround he can argue with himself and always win. LOL
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There's a few people shouting and a few people losing the plot, and a lot of media chatter about those attention seekers but I get no sense the media has turned against Labour. It's just another attention bubble and will burst when people have burned themselves out.
The Princess Diana thing was similar and people are now feintly embarassed about that. Some of the hardcore will cling on as they've invested so much ego in it but even they will have to let go when it becomes more obvious how absurd this is. It's all a bit of a drama and that's about it.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
@228 purpleDogzzz
"I know some labour supporters here cannot see that and like a beaten wife defending her abusive husband, will always crawl back to the abuser looking for more abuse in the belief that they must, some-how, deserve it and do not deserve anything better."
__________________________________
So do you think we should vote for a slightly different abusive partner. Is the abuse less painful if the abuser has more charisma and presents the abuse in a better way?
The previous version was wrong I apologize for not reading it properly. please do not allow it.
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232# CEH, many of your posts are interesting and inciteful but I have to disagree on this. The majority of the media are anti labour, aconsiderable section always has been, Mail, express, evening standard etc, I'd say now its 80% against cos negative reactionary press is and always has been popular in the UK. The BBC remains just about neutral but the 24 hour news pressure means every minute story finds air time and again if negative or sleazy it simply makes "better news" than something positive. One person on an NHS trolley is news, 200 getting cataract operations isn't, simple as.
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Nite-nite everyone. Hopefully when I wake up NuLabour and Brown will have been truly Crewe-cified.
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why are my comments not being registerd aunty??
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News has just announced Tory Win
Yipeeeeeeeeeeee
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Septicmax and the multiple personality NulabourNoHope want the last word do they?
I really feel sorry for this country if it falls for such this obviously phoney Conservative party campaign. They expect people to vote for the Conservative party's Magical Mystery tour. and they probably will. This democracy is a joke!
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Charles_E_H should get a grip.
Princess Diana died because she could not be bothered to put on a seat belt.
In the UK, if a policeman saw you in that condition, he would (quite rightly) pull you over and give a right royal ticking off at least!
In the UK, Brown (with approval - or at least acceptance) from Blair, wore a seat belt for two years, after he promised to follow Ken Clarke's financial plans.
When he had got past that mark, he tore off the seat-belt, cast away his financial condom and got stuck into the task of raising taxes.
Prudence? Who she?
This administration has been the worst example of a financial jerk-circle that I can ever remember. Private money for public benefit should have been a good thing. Do you really believe that PFI/PPP has been well managed? If so, I can imagine why you imply that you will be moving abroad, once you have gained some foreign language facility that you obviously didn't pick up at school...
Brown and Blair conspired to degrade the UK into an appalling mess.
Who should shoulder the blame? Well, the last man standing was left here to take the flak.
So let's just acknowledge that Blair will pick up the fortune, while Brown will just get wiped out.
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Does anyone , like me , remember the enthusiasm and political zeal of the police service when they supported Margeret Thatcher in her campaign to destroy the mining industry. The unlawful road blocks , the harassment of collectors for the miners , the violence towards strke supporters and the suppression of peaceful demonstration were a daily occurrence.
Although I have little sympathy for New Labour, Jacqui Smith's ignoring due process pales into insignificance compared to the police service's breaches of the rule of law during that period.
They should get the same support for their cause as they gave the miners who were trying to save their jobs and communities. Zilch!!!
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The whole point of two parties agreeing to put their case to 'arbitration' is that the outcome must be binding on both parties.
When one of those parties refuses to accept to outcome, then that is highly damaging to the arbitration service itself.
If the party refusing the accept the outcome of arbitration is the Government, then the Government itself falls into disrepute.
When the Government falls into disrepute then it is right to call into question the validity of the Government.
The people who are interested in voting, will be aggregating all that has gone before, and all that is to come in the next two years, and then will decide.
I have been reading the runes and really do believe it will end up thus in 2010:
England - Tory win.
Scotland - SNP win.
Wales - Plaid win.
Then things will get interesting, politically speaking.
Alas, poor Britain, I knew him well.
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# 241
Yes, I clearly remember that and it was a very disturbing and shameful episode.
Police were drafted in from all over the country to 'manage' these miners and some locals cops from my area, some 200 miles from Nottinghamshire, boasted later that they'd earnt a small fortune in overtime whilst the strike was on.
I never expected to see that sort of thing happening in modern day England but it was reprised fairly recently on a smaller scale during Blair's time (both of them) when police in London clubbed demonstrators protesting about the Chinese occupation and cultural destruction of Tibet.
When I think of these things, it reinforces the view that the monopoly Police Service can be a dangerous thing, especially if politically driven by central Government.
Generally speaking, the dictum 'all politics is local' should particularly apply to how the police service works - that is, all police in significant positions, from the Chief Constable down, must stand for election by their local community, to their posts.
We, the English public, might then get some meaningful accountability from our local police force, instead of the sham process which currently exists.
This is NOT a radical idea, the Americans have been doing this forever - we just lag in democratic accountability by a few hundred years.
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You're probably right about the coverage. I don't read most of it because it's not very interesting or just too shrill for my taste. If someone recommends a good article I usually look at it but apart from that don't bother.
When I told the police I thought that inter-agency cooperation in my city was poor the produced report said I was wrong and my local councillor swallowed it. Funny thing is, the National Audit Office only issued a report the other month that said I was right and it had the numbers to back it up. I doubt I'll get an apology or have them spontaneously review their other findings that I'm not commenting on.
The police aren't perfect and have made mistakes in the past. That's something they need to accept if they're to continue improving. The better pay they already have and Jacqui Smith's reducing the paperwork burden will help but I'd like to see better performance and community relations in place before they get an inflation busting pay deal.
The drumbeat from the pro-business and ant-worker media, and the attempt to politically shift behind the bully boy Cameron is just a crude power play. It has its appeal but in reality one can plot a direct line to stagnation of industry and social breakdown. This is something the usual suspects may want to reflect on before they throw their heels in the air and send their egos over the cliff of hubris.
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Nick:
It is absolutely WRONG to beat a defenceless lady!
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239. At 10:18 pm on 22 May 2008, dhwilkinson @239 wrote:
"This democracy is a joke!"
Typical leftie: loves democracy only when the people vote as instructed. You must be related to Vivienne Westwood who famously said: "Boris as mayor? Unthinkable. It just exposes democracy as a sham, especially if people don't vote for Ken - he's the best thing in politics. Unthinkable."
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It is difficult to feel sympathy for either. Incompetent government displaying its gratuitous unfairness for the sake of looking tough or the Police who are little more than call centre pen pushers. For example, if the Police strike - how will peole know?
Time for real change.
Crewe does not mark the start of Cameron's rise or end of Nu Labs failed experiment. There is a pressure pot of pent up anger in this country. Iraq, ID cards, DNA databases, spy cameras, rocketing tax when most of Europe's tax is falling, dodgy unbelievable statistics (RPI), off balance sheet finances mortgaged into infinity (PFI), creative house prices control (come off it Flint - your papers were deliberately exposed - otherwise its a breach of the OSA) and so on. 10p Tax, wasted billions on NHS reforms and raided pension schemes simply add to the anger. On the plus side? Well we now have civil marriages, Balamory and unknown millions of immigrants, or, "newly arrived families" in Nu Lab speak.
Listening is one thing. At what point does the repeated deafening angry roar of no confidence get heard?
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Just to say how much I enjoyed this blog. I was immediately concerned when I saw the title and was taken in but then relieved when I got to the blog itself.
Lovely witty stuff - like some of the best Parliamentary sketch writers.
Made all the more enjoyable, I think, by the evident discomfiture of the "defenceless woman" - a real bit of factual inaccuracy which made it all that much more special.
Well done Nick!
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Gosh,
What would Auntie-Beeb do without Sky...?
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Nick - good tongue-in-cheek blog.
Very amusing.
However, I can't believe the number of people trying to defend a government minister who is clearly out of her depth and who has so little regard for the country's arbitration process (binding ? - yes, unless you're the Government)
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