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Tuesday 21 February 2012

ADMIN USE ONLY | 19:02 UK time, Tuesday, 21 February 2012

Tonight Liz MacKean has more on the row over the workfare scheme looking at how it impacts not just the unemployed, but also those already in employment.

Joe Lynam takes us through the eurozone Greek bailout assessing the snags which have the potential to unravel the whole deal.

And Jeremy has an interview with Charles Dallara, managing director of the International Institute of Finance (IIF) and the chief negotiator for private creditors now facing a loss on their Greek holdings, about private sector acceptance of the eurozone deal.

Our Political editor Allegra Stratton has a piece on allowing free schools to turn a profit.

And we have an interview with John Lanchester about his latest book Capital - a post-economic crash novel set in London.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    All that a 'no pay welfare scheme' scam does is reduce average pay further.

    The only way to create genuine British jobs for British unemployed is to remove the magnet of UK subsidies for foreign workers so that the economics of British employment shifts in favour of British workers.

    If and when foreign workers (or their British employers on their behalf) have to pay for their own UK healthcare, housing, welfare, education, interpreters etc - the the basic laws of supply and demand will take effect in the UK labour market and employers will need to evaluate the cost of training British workers - v - paying for the healthcare, housing & welfare of foreign workers.

    Economic decisions - business decisions - all become necessary when the global immigration magnet of UK govt subsidies for foreign workers having free & unfetterered access to all UK public service is removed from them for at least first 10 years of indefinite leave to remain in the UK.

    Cost and demand management of public services is all that is required to mean that such cheapscape insulting 'no pay jobs scams' are eliminated & British people have real jobs & pay real taxes.

    BBC staff can also job share with the British unemployed and give them a job that way?

  • Comment number 2.

    It would appear that what we are seeing with Workfare is a popular revolt against increasingly obvious fascism in the UK (the merger of state and corporations ). At long last the British people are waking up to the full implications of Welfare Reform as started by Labour and embroidered by the Tories. The sad fact is that many will be totally oblivious to the fact that long term sickness and disability changes mean their annual car insurance has gone up 40% to pay for virtual privatisation. Cameron can spin that its due to whiplash claims and other general scams but the TV adverts for stock market private wage income insurance have already started.

    Perhaps the only true way forward is to introduce a Citizens Income payable to every UK citizen over 25 or 10 years income tax paid legal residence, scrap all current benefits including the OAP If its done properly it would probably be safe to scrap the minimum wage as well which would please many on the right wing ?

  • Comment number 3.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 4.

    WE TRIED AN 'AGE OF ENLIGHTENMENT' IT GAVE US SCIENCE AND CLEVERNESS (#2)

    What shall we call this one Nolly? THE AGE OF WISDOM? That would see off Westminster!

  • Comment number 5.

    The headline story is Greece and not Tesco jobs.

    A turgid opening discussion that seemed confused and seemingly mixing up two different back to work schemes - how much do researchers get paid at NN?

  • Comment number 6.

    #1 Absolutely right nautonier, agree with every word you have written. : )

  • Comment number 7.

    There has naturally been a very heavy focus on 'the numbers' with respect to Greece but it seems to me, as I attempted to point out in a censored blog entry on this forum, that the ultimate solution lies with Greek society itself.

    That is, ordinary Greeks themselves must accept that they now have to truly co-operate with each other, resist corruption and pay taxes.

    Then the Greek super-tanker will change direction.

  • Comment number 8.

    Jobseekers:

    The socialist worker...is that an oxymoron?

    Yeah, if your gonna go on national TV ..and of all things, chat about how job schemes were not favourable in your experience.. at least have a shave and scrubb yourself up first.

    Kevseywevseys life-coach thought for jobseekers and job scheme attendees:
    Beware what you expect because invariably thats what you get.

  • Comment number 9.

    My maternal grandmothers family all lived around Mitcham and I was born nearby.

    There was a real community spirit in those days, possibly born out of hardship, co-operation, especially during WWII, and it might still be the case.

    But I doubt it as I have read that the area is now full of people from all over the
    world, e.g. refugees from sundry African despots, ethic and religious conflicts in
    Europe and the Middle East and Afghanistan and so on.

    So, although London, in terms of financial wealth, might be viewed as an approximate set of concentric rings radiating from the centre, that is too simplistic and there are huge pockets of poverty there, with London having the second highest levels of unemployment in the English regions.

    The Polish lady mentioned on NN tonight might well be chasing 'the London dream' and good luck to her but let's hope it is not as illusionary as the American dream is for most Americans.

  • Comment number 10.

    There may yet be hope for Greece: the debacle over the German presidency has shown again that Frau M is capable of doing the right thing - after she's tried all the wrong things first.

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/greece/

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/partying-like-its-1934/

  • Comment number 11.

    1. completely agree.

    A free labour market is simply another facet of globalisation - and it means that our workforce can't complete with thise from societies which don't provide a decent welfare system or a fair wage.

    Those on the left who argue for immigration and the EU's free movement of labour need to face up the fact that it has destroyed the lives of ordinary working people in the UK and has dramatically driven down living standards.

    Part of the review of where the Left should go now must be a re-evaluation of the free market in the EU and to seriously consider enshrining the notion of "Fair Trade" into the economy, which means imposing import controls on goods from China, not allowing countries with no welafre state to dump their unemployed into our labour market and drive down wages below the welfare benefits level.

    Globalisation will fail eventually because it is simply impossible to make goods in one country and sell them in another using borrowed/printed money. In the end the level of debt will overwhelm the system and it will collapse.

  • Comment number 12.

    #9 Well John here is proof that London is changing beyond all imagination and very very rapidly

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9096761/Two-thirds-of-London-babies-born-to-foreign-parents.html

    It looks like race replacement to me, as I've said before why does everyone hate the english so much they have to be replaced by every other race from around the world.

    We have always had immigration, perfectly right too, but at this rate the english as a ethnic identity will be gone.

  • Comment number 13.

  • Comment number 14.

  • Comment number 15.

    IS MY POINT NOT VALID?

    I read all the earnest and erudite comment on MECHANISMS for financial/commercial recovery, and for future stability, but what of the MENTALITY (joint and several) currently in place, imposing THEIR WILL? Is there not a general consensus that the MENTALITY OF THE CAPTAIN brought about the cruise liner disaster?

    I keep asserting that UNLESS WE ELEVATE MATURE, WISE, ALTRUISTIC MANAGERS, disasters will be serial. My local councillors seem to prove my point, councillors of West Berks Unitary add a layer of endorsement; WESTMINSTER is a glaring illustration; the EU takes it off the scale.

    I repeat: WE elevate the wrong mentality to power. Governance by needy, demon-driven, juveniles, IS ALWAYS GOING TO FAIL. Corruption is BUILT IN from day one. http://spoilpartygames.blogspot.com/2011/09/take-liar-flyer-challenge-6-sep-2011.html

    WE THE PEOPLE must stop the rot. Good men are doing nothing.

    DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - INSTALL INTEGRITY - ELEVATE MATURE MINDS

  • Comment number 16.

    BY THE TIME A PM LEAVES OFFICE THEIR WEIRDNESS IS WRIT LARGE (#14)

    Then WE GET OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

    Step by step, obscenity by obscenity, those who attained power over us have worked their warped will; MOTHERS ARE CARP – MAMMON’s ‘LOVE’ IS 'THE JACKPOT' (an obscene one, of course). Further: imported foreigners are a noble cause; AT HOME, THEY ARE BOMB FODDER! Since the 50s, we have gained MATERIALLY and lost HUMANITY.

    Never mind the coffee - WAKE UP AND SMELL THE . . . .

  • Comment number 17.

    DODGY DAVE STILL SHOUTING HIS CREDENTIALS TO THE SKY - "I'M INCREDIBLE"

    It shows the lack psychological understanding in Westminster (all those PPEs!) that Dave's superlative of choice is: "INCREDIBLE". All his great works are - in his own incredible utterance - INCREDIBLE. Nuff sed.

    In passing: Sick Nick was looking decidedly green at PMQs - when you could see him at all. There are two camera angles that EXCLUDE him: one cuts him off, and the other overlays (!) him, with Dave.

    Accidental?

  • Comment number 18.

    ECOLIZZY; for once and for all; the English are not a race, they are people born in a particular geography.

    DNA-wise, as has been proved even on the BBC, most English people have Angles, Saxons, Celts, Vikings, Norman French and Roman in their mix and that's just for starters.

    The argument that there is such a thing as "English culture" is one worth having, although "English civilization" is probably pushing the boat a bit too far out.

  • Comment number 19.

    Work Experience :

    For the over twenty fives , they would have had to been unemployed for twelve months or longer to get sent on a few weeks work experience.
    Also there is no point in demanding pay for this few weeks of work experience , as any earnings over £5 (£10 ?) pw will be automatically deducted from their benefits (ie benefit trap).

    Young People

    Funny in the 1980's the Unions grumbled about the Youth Training Scheme being “cheap labour” , yet that scheme gave me my first real work experience to put on my CV, which I credit for getting me the vital first job interviews of my career.
    If I remember correctly I got my dole money (no signing on) plus travel expenses.
    So ignore the lefties cruising for new clients , they only offer state dependency, which is at the direct cost of your personal liberty (freewill).


    Greece :

    They should hold a referendum and seek a mandate from the Greek people for such a deal.

    Schools :

    Sorry, but what's the difference of a private fee paying school and a profit making school ?

    Would I like to send my kids to a private school of my choice ?

    Errr.. yeah.

    Some state schools I consider good, but there are too few of such schools for parents to exercise their choice.

    London:

    One thing we do have in common is the alarming rise in TB over the last decade, London is now reported as the TB capital of Western Europe.

    Other than the costs of living in London, it is a nice city, but I am bias as its consumed my home town a century or more ago and therefore London has been my home town all my life.

    Can I just put on record , London is not paved with gold, if it were , it would have been stolen ages ago.

  • Comment number 20.

    Latest ONS stats on Youth Unemployment (1984-2011):

    Podcast here.

  • Comment number 21.

    BUT THE ENGLISH ARE -IN- A RACE KASHI - A RACE TO THE BOTTOM! (#18)

    Colloquialisms - whether or not agreeable to the purist - are of little account compared to the disaster we find ourselves in, regularly posted by Lizzy. And while on the subject of immigration (importing Mangles, of varying degrees of DIFFERENCE) let's take another look at the government policy of OVERT INCLUSION. Is that not a crass mockery of multicultural equality? If governments strive for more brown faces in Parliament, Police etc, THEY ARE INSTANTLY 'RACIST' (more precisely: DIFFERENCIST). Welcome to D MOCK CRASS Y.

    The ‘tangled web’ has been woven. The deranged weaver/deceivers) have retired to spend more time with their delusions (and our money). Meanwhile:

    WE HAVE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

  • Comment number 22.

    KNOWING THAT CORRUPTION AND DECEPTION IS THE WESTMINSTER ETHOS (#19)

    Does ANYONE think this Work Experience 'initiative' is anything more than a scam?
    When the Snake Oil Company of Westminster, England, mounts a sales campaign, does anyone now believe it? For pity's sake - take a hard look at the MD!

  • Comment number 23.

    JINGO DAVE CAUGHT OUT BY A LATE REFERENCE TO A LAUDED MERCENARY IN PMQs

    Dave - ever the rapper - wrapped himself in the Flag and went over the top. Eulogising over the most recent death, he ended: "He will never be forgotten."
    After an extended PMQs, a back bencher raised the aforementioned hero, but Dave in response, referred to "the brave man" - Dave had forgotten his name.

  • Comment number 24.

    David Cameron said about reforming the NHS that :

    "Change - if it is to endure, if it is to really work - should have the support of people who work in our NHS. We have to take our nurses and doctors with us... we want to work with them, not against them."

    Obviously he forgot to say except for:

    "The members of the British Medical Association,

    the Royal College of Nursing,

    the Royal College of Midwives,

    the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health,

    the Royal College of General Practitioners,

    and the many other medical and paramedical organisations and their members, as well as the vast majority of NHS ancilliary staff, NHS managers. patients and their relatives."

    Clearly it's also vital that those with a vested interest in the NHS like healthcare professionals should not be allowed to influence how it is run - just as it's vital that those private medical companies who are seeking to make money out of the NHS are fully involved in the reform process to ensure that they can do so.

    It's also vital to remove the overbearing bureaucracy of the NHS by sacking PTC management staff who currently deliver an 85%+ patient satisfaction score, who will all then be free to be re-employed along with even more managers on higher salaries to work in the GP consortia, each of which will fully duplicate the staffing of each other, so massively driving up the cost of running the NHS.

    I really respect a politician like David Cameron who says what he means and means what he says. don't you?

  • Comment number 25.

    "THE COMMUNITY CHARGE WILL BE VERY POPULAR" (Maggie to Parliament) #24

    Do you remember the howl of cross-party laughter, as covert despot Maggie, exercised feudal power over the Westminster Chamber-pot, bringing riots, rejection and retrenchment?

    Must I really write it again? The proof that we elevate deluded, damaged, juveniles!

    WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE. Carry on Dave.

  • Comment number 26.

    PATIENT SATISFACTION SCORE - IS IT BIASED BY ESCAPE EUPHORIA? (#24)

    Does any 'independent' agency check the 'visiting concerned' satisfaction score?
    I suggest the discrepancy could be as wide as the extra-marital sex score - when differentially reported by women AND BY MEN.

  • Comment number 27.

    No information about tonight's (Wednesday's) programme. Why not?

  • Comment number 28.

    PUBLIC SERVICE BROADCASTING - IT SERVES US RIGHT (#27)

    Yeah right.

  • Comment number 29.

    "ARROGANT DAVE" - LIMITED ED GOT THAT RIGHT AT PMQs

    But do we want governance at this petty, tit-for-tat level? (Dave tried to brand Ed 'weak' for a while.) Do we deserve governance of this ilk? Well - er - yes actually.

    WE ALWAYS GET OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE. STOP ELEVATING NEEDY CIPHERS!

  • Comment number 30.

    '18.
    At 13:38 22nd Feb 2012, kashibeyaz wrote:
    ECOLIZZY; for once and for all; the English are not a race, they are people born in a particular geography.


    Exactly. Which appears to be why any under that category are exempted from engaging with any aspects of the 'ism-industry' that seem often levelled against them, ably supported by those in the political media estate who see value in propping up a 'one wrong will probably be all right' imbalance. Not sure that is the case mind.

    Now, speaking of what is right, and wrong, depending, is the media industry today any clearer on who needs invading? I just ask as those of a dovish hue can get pretty hawkish when it suits, and beyond personal interest it is often hard to ascertain where the distinction gets made. Not optimal when steering an objective reporting path vs., say, a regime-changing advocacy one.

    Especially when the regimes re-installed with media complicity do not seem any better; just different, as that eventual agonising effort on the Arab Spring liberation of the ladies barely conceded.

  • Comment number 31.

    PHOBISM (#30)

    I subscribe to an irrational fear of irrational fear - wherever I encounter it. It is coupled with a deep anathema to intolerance, however manifest. And I have a visceral hatred of other people's philosophy.

    I am presently writing a book, a universal guide, dictated by God.

    Peace! On my terms.

  • Comment number 32.

    Big Gongs

    given the bbc gets billions a year of free money its damming that they do not win all the awards all the time? it should be the minimum standard?

  • Comment number 33.

    It occurred to this blogger today that the law in England has been effectively and slyly privatised.

    That is, publicly funded legal work is no longer sufficiently renumerated to attract legal professionals to do the job.

    Therefore, access to high quality legal advice has become the sole preserve of the wealthy in England.

    That ain't justice!

  • Comment number 34.

    TRY WORKING OUT HOW TO SUE A COUNCIL FOR SCREWING A TOWN (#33)

    It is D MOCK CRASS Y under the rule of COVERT TYRANNY. But 'Public Service' broadcasting will not speak of it. In a word: CORRUPTION.

  • Comment number 35.

    CORRUPTION -HYPOCRISY - CONNIVANCE - D MOCK CRASS Y

    Keiser Report 253 http://maxkeiser.com/

    FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH . . . Nuff sed

  • Comment number 36.

    MOUNT DAVE HAS SPOKEN - AGAIN

    Dave thinks 'better lives' are BOUGHT WITH PROFIT FROM STERILE MONEY DEALING.

    WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE

  • Comment number 37.

    BAD MANAGEMENT IS EASY - IT ALLOWS CEOs TO PLAY GOLF AND PMs TO SPOUT

    Is it me? Dave seems to spend a hell of a lot of time evacuating from high places (both globally and platformally). When I had a business, I had to keep my head down and do real work - a lot of it. I never gage one speech in 35 years. I didn't keep re-naming my products and hiring outsiders to re-launch them. Nor did I go round selling MYSELF as some magical guarantee of quality. WE NEVER NEEDED A CRASS FORMAL OPPOSITION IN MANAGEMENT. And it never occurred to me to cal myself 'honourable'.

    I suggest Dave is all about Dave - trying to calm his inner demons. It is not conducive to good state management, as time will tell. When he falls, we must try not to

    GET OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

  • Comment number 38.

    "And we have an interview with John Lanchester about his latest book Capital - a post-economic crash novel set in London."

    YAWN - that sure is a good cure for insomnia

  • Comment number 39.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 40.

    Why does the UK taxpayer have to subsidise the price of alchohol for MP's in H of P bars?

    It's a national disgrace

  • Comment number 41.

    nautonier @ 40

    No need to get too worked up about MP's guzzling cheap booze in the HoC bars because being an MP is only a part-time job for them, if they so choose.

    That's right, there are no fixed hours or demands upon attendance other than turning up on the first day following a General Election to register. Thereafter an MP need not attend for the rest of the Parliament. Check it out, it is true.

    A number of MP's have second and even third jobs, so don't take it too seriously, some of them obviously do not.

  • Comment number 42.

    PRECIS #40

    H of P: a national disgrace.

  • Comment number 43.

    DILETTANTE MPs (#41)

    Odd that drafting in all those 'women' did not improve the integrity. Might they all be WoeMen in disguise - hence duplicitous by definition? Add a rosette, and they are triplicitous!

 

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