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Monday 27 February 2012

Verity Murphy | 18:08 UK time, Monday, 27 February 2012

The Leveson Inquiry into press standards today turned its attention to the relationship between journalists and the police, and tonight we do too.

We have a one-to-one interview with former News of the World journalist Neville Thurlbeck. Then afterwards we will be debating the issues with Lord Prescott, former police officer Peter Neyroud and Jeff Edwards from the Daily Mirror.

Paul Mason has more on the A4e story and Allegra Stratton reports on Nick Clegg's backing for further changes to the coalition's NHS reforms.

Plus, Tim Whewell reports from Moscow on the claim that Russian and Ukrainian security forces foiled an attempt to assassinate Prime Minister Vladimir Putin - the plot is said to have emerged in January, but has been announced just days before the election.

We will be discussing the news with Russian oligarch Boris Berezovsky.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    The BBC 10 oclock news this evening reported about the propaganda coming out of Syrian state TV.

    thats a bit rich!

  • Comment number 2.

    After todays leveson enquiry revelations....i.e. the complicict bribery of prominent establishment figures in the met, home office and mod by NI employees, will NN bring back on the likes of the "big mouths" i.e. nick ferrari and john gaunt to decry the innocence of senior sum journalists?

    If I remember rightly, it took a Jewish bloke from NY to call out the likes of N. Ferrari on NN to shut-up and answer the allegation of of corruption in NI (i.e. the arguement of plain vanilla corruption) ...i.e. he said play the ball and not the men accused at the Sun/NI in terms of the terms of their arrest.

    Oh and Prescott simply wnats the press/NI to amist their incompetence....that's rich!

  • Comment number 3.

    #2 erratum

    Oh and Prescott simply wants the MET to admit their incompetence....that's rich!

  • Comment number 4.

    ho, ho, the guy from russia acuses the bbc of pravda like propaganda.

  • Comment number 5.

    Putin's lernin' from the fast west....

    Alleged Iranian plot to assassinate Saudi ambassador to US
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/12/iran-assassination-plot-saudi-ambassador

  • Comment number 6.

    A woman who was encouraged "not to tell the job centre" about a job she was offered for a week, "give it a week first before you tell them"..or something to that effect. The young(ish) woman told Paul Mason she was not impressed about that as she wanted to abide by the law as she "want's to become a police officer".

    Now, does anyone not know where I'm gonna go with this?

    Gather closer people, if plod hears this, my doors getting kicked in:

    Considering PC plod is a bit prone from taking bungs and such like from hacks wanting stories - so we keep hearing (disclaimer: allegedly) maybe the young woman may find a career in the police force somewhat disheartening to say the least.

    I'm available for having my door kicked in tomorrow but not to early. You can send 20 of your finest busy and overworked boys in blue to do there best. All I ask is you don't kick my back door in. I would'nt be happy about that if you did.

    Putin assassination attempt..and don't interrupt! Dripping in false flag this one.

  • Comment number 7.

  • Comment number 8.

    EVEN JUVENILES CAN JOIN DOTS WHEN THEY ARE THIS CLOSE!!!!!

    This is becoming a farce! Prescott - man of Westminster at the time of Brown/Blair/Campbell/Murdoch et al, blaming anyone but the Cabal of Darkness! Why don't you have a studio séance and get Jack the Ripper to defend legalisation of prostitution? Where on earth are you going NewsyNighty?

    Here - join these: Westminster is full of Westminster Creatures, chosen by other Westminster Creatures FOR THEIR CREATURENESS! Can you see what it is yet? IT IS CALLED INCESTUOUSNESS! It leads to defective governance. AND IT HAS! England is corrupt in all its major functions. The cause, model, template, wellspring and core infection is - - - - - - - - - - - - - WESTMINSTER!

    Discussion of symptoms is futile - unless, of course, you are complicit. . .

    Nuff sed.

  • Comment number 9.

    HEY LIZZY - DON'T FORGET IT COSTS MONEY TO BOMB THEM AS WELL (#7)

    But, I must remember it keeps all our happy smiling arms-makers in employment. Be thankful for small mercies eh? (as JF says when they rain down).

  • Comment number 10.

    REMEMBER PIPER ALPHA? THEY WERE ALLOWED TO REGULATE THEMSELVES.

    Westminster has 'regulated' ITSELF for too long. Just as with Piper Alpha, bad practices have prospered. Corruption has been leaking out into all aspects of life; leaking from the unplumbed depths of the Westminster psyche, as surely as the petroleum gas of Piper alpha, leaked from the black bowels below.

    The pressure is building. Any day now, the one spark that ignites a whole land will occur. Shall we just wait?

  • Comment number 11.

    #9 Having watched Empire last night Barrie, I think we've always "got/had ourselves another one".

    Empire as taught in school (I still have a book of maps with empire pink on, belonged to my older cousin) has this lovely rosey glow. I always wondered why we were there, and as trailered in the next programme, why we are there now. And having visited quite a few NT grand homes, (very pleased they are now in publicish ownership) it all falls into place.

    We are now suffering the sins of our fathers with mass immigration. The majority of english/welsh/scots/irish people were under the same jackboots of "our dear leaders" back then, as the empire countries. And are we still there with the Commonwealth and our current queen lording it as Victoria did?

    But it is the ordinary british man that suffers as a result of the British invaders back a couple of centuries, where did the ordinary man benefit? I'm sure someone here can tell me. :)

  • Comment number 12.

    FUNDAMENTAL ATTRIBUTES OF HOMO SAPIENS (#11)

    Born near-incompetent - draws on surroundings to add social circuits to brain. Globally H/S is now mad – hence new ones wire up according to mad inputs.

    Schooling - an unnatural exercise - arrests maturing in favour of institutionalisation, and the most demon-driven of these, takes tyrannical control of the juvenile mass.

    In such a world, cleverness cannot but triumph over wisdom; now nearing completion.

    The unconceived have no rights, the conceived acquire no mother, the incompetent are medicated, and the deranged incarcerated.

    Nick'll fix it

  • Comment number 13.

    'Then afterwards we will be debating the issues with Lord Prescott, former police officer Peter Neyroud and Jeff Edwards from the Daily Mirror.

    Guessing a journo from any other tabloid of note was not free? Perhaps one of a higher, more representative ABC rating?

    But great to see Mr. Prescott has been deemed sufficiently less toxic again to release from his permanent niche in the Newsynighty Green Room to be unleashed in 'debate' (really?).

    Frankly I am amazed it has taken this long. Guessing the other regulars were too busy wo/manning the #Occupy last stand?

    Anyhoo, in complement, here's a few other thoughts on our Good Lord and the media who create policy vs. simply report the news...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9108763/A-dose-of-Prescott-might-do-the-police-good.html

    (after reading about JFK's 'interesting' intern induction, evidently an inspiration to Bill Clinton, it appears that abuse of power is simply tickedy-boo in some media quarters so long as the politics are 'correct'. One can see the appeal of such men to some in the media, especially those whose moral compasses seem to have as many directions as they do standards)

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/janetdaley/100139910/workfare-has-not-collapsed-the-backlash-against-the-swp-has-saved-it/

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100139814/the-collapse-of-workfare-is-testament-to-the-power-of-the-modern-media-elite-and-its-slavish-twitter-followers/

    I commend the 'most liked' option for all. There seems a slight difference in this country between those being spoken for, spoken at, and having a slight glimmer of speaking their own minds free of 'guidance'.

  • Comment number 14.

    #11 ecolizzy wrote:

    "Having watched Empire last night Barrie, I think we've always "got/had ourselves another one".

    I wasn’t quite so impressed, Lizzy, with Paxman strutting the world (at our expense) searching for all the dirt he could dish on our past. Needs a balancing programme.

    “We are now suffering the sins of our fathers with mass immigration.” And how!! Just watched Proud and Prejudiced, another anti-English(Defence League) doc-drama. Makes me inclined to join EDL: probably not the intended effect as the media (barons?) seem hell-bent on destroying any remaining shreds of patriotism and national pride.

    “And are we still there with the Commonwealth and our current queen lording it as Victoria did?” No way, the present role player is another apologist for our country, telling the Arch of Cant that in the fight against secularism we mustn’t focus exclusively on defending the Christian faith; might as well let Charlie take over!

    My view remains that we should take the brief advantage of the 2012 festivities, and the Queen’s respected place as Head of the Commonwealth to get some benefit from trade as well as aid to that world-wide club rather than tie our future to EU.

    “But it is the ordinary British man that suffers as a result of the British invaders back a couple of centuries, where did the ordinary man benefit? I'm sure someone here can tell me. :)” I’m more hedonist than historian, but I would suggest that our past skill in getting half the world as a (captive) market for our goods was the growth trigger for the Industrial Age.

    Why are we being persuaded to throw it all away and wear sackcloth and ashes?

  • Comment number 15.

    11.
    At 09:33 28th Feb 2012, ecolizzy wrote:


    #9 Having watched Empire last night Barrie, I think we've always "got/had ourselves another one".

    Empire as taught in school (I still have a book of maps with empire pink on, belonged to my older cousin) has this lovely rosey glow. I always wondered why we were there, and as trailered in the next programme, why we are there now. And having visited quite a few NT grand homes, (very pleased they are now in publicish ownership) it all falls into place.

    We are now suffering the sins of our fathers with mass immigration. The majority of english/welsh/scots/irish people were under the same jackboots of "our dear leaders" back then, as the empire countries. And are we still there with the Commonwealth and our current queen lording it as Victoria did?

    ++
    I saw the programme & was a re-run of previous stuff with no real message to the programme or relevance to where Britain is today.

    The BE programme missed the point about the British Empire as to why it came into effect - the reason was primarily in defence as having being constantly under threat from invasion from France & Spain - that was what spurred British navy to grow and establish trading routes - primarily defence of the realm.

    I see we have a new rabid British apologist on the scene - good job he went all the way to India and had a crude outline of the world drawn in the sand otherwise we might never know where Inida was located.

    Still it made a massive foreign jolly for BBC staff - money that could have been much better spent re-organising the BBC to ensure full job sharing at the BBC to give employment to those British people who need it.

    When is the BBC going to be reviewed so that it is 'working for Britain' instead of providing foreignising, jollies, freelancing & historically misguided programmes that provide no meaningful message except libertarian, apologist 'white British bashing'?

  • Comment number 16.

    IT ALL MAKES SENSE IF WE ARE ABANDONED, PURPOSE-BRED, WORKERS (#14)

    Charles Fort (a proto Douglas Adams) wrote: "I think we are property."

    Were we bred for useful work, by aliens, and then abandoned when they left? A lot falls into place . . .

    I think we may well be ABANDONED property, immature and incompetent without control and direction, in need of 'parenting'.

  • Comment number 17.

    Paxman was inappropriately dressed for his Empire programme last night. He should have been wearing sackcloth and ashes.

  • Comment number 18.

    Newsnight handled the discussion over the alleged plot to kill Putin very badly. There is no point inviting on the one hand Berezovsky, who never says anything relevant or sensible to the media and, were it not for his ability to hang onto his billions, would be thought an idiot, and on the other hand Sergei Markov, who yelled like a thug, as the Kremlin spokesman. In any case Emily Maitlis failed to bring them to order: she needed to act like a bar bouncer, and not let these two avoid all the issues. In general, Newsnight loses its touch when dealing with Russia. Even Jeremy Paxman turns from Rottweiler to King Charles Spaniel when talking to Russian ministers or ambassadors. BBC radio has long ago lost its FM transmitters in Russia: what has it now got to lose by tackling Russian chicanery and corruption head-on? Why not get people who can say something to the point: Marina Litvinenko, Ed Lucas?

  • Comment number 19.

    Is Paxo the new Judith Chalmers?

    Come to think of it, didn't Dimbleby make a similar programme last year that involved travelling around the globe at licence payers' expense?

  • Comment number 20.

    Are we doing Paxmans Empire reviews on here?

    How does one do a historical broad sweep of the British in India in an hour and throw in Egypt in the last quarter? I think one would be better off reading a big book for that..but this is TV and has to be edited down to the standard issue hour. The context of our empire was laid out by Paxmans generic style and then in snippet form, given plucked bits.
    The little interview with the Indian prince could've been stretched some. Jeremy and the prince -with man-servant hovering, was given nearly as much time in the opening sequence of them entering the room and eventually sitting down as were the question and answer session...maybe that was because the Indian prince looked like he's just got up and wanted his cornflakes and couldn't be bothered with re-telling the same old worn out stories that he often tells visiting dignitaries when they are around for tea and business, I can imagine the man-servants eyes rolled when hearing it all again.
    I think that interview kinda set the tone and how this BBC empire historical adventure was going..a bit like unsatisfying sex that went too quick.. but at least we got some. The tone has been set up, we know what to expect and thats fine, some interesting snippets -like the fella who was sitting around minding the statues (is there really such a job) at the end of some dusty field. This quick chat could've been more interesting.
    Paxman doesn't do real people very well, he struggles to pull them out -well he would, considering he's only ever really been around politicians, the BBC and university. To labour the point of what was good/bad about empire is not enough when questioning folk and getting them to give opinions, you need to really engage, and that just didn't happen. Paxman needs to be steered by some of the senior creatives in the production team; tell him where to go with his questions..maybe they are too afraid. His Victorian/art shows have been informative and I'm sure this one will be as well. It'll do..but only just.

  • Comment number 21.

    Empire, thanks all, haven't got time to reply. I found it a rather shallow programme, lots of beautiful scenes and Paxo roaming about.

    Yes Maggie I found the Saville row shirt, suit and highly polished black shoes quite a laugh in the desert. I expect the locals thought the same, wonder if his shoes were full of sand.

    When making programmes like this they always talk as though all of us were involved, never this lord or government decided what they were going to do, and they told the rest of us to follow..... hhhmmmm now isn't that what still happens.... I thought we had a democracy and voted.....did we vote for what we've got...

    And as Kev says the odd few words asking locals what they thought of the english, meant nothing at all, and was sort of racist. Am I allowed to go up to any english here and say what do you think of this or that race.

    Strangely most of the Indians seemed very happy with us, I think I'd be pretty miffed if I were them, I notice the statue man was muslim as was the egyptian, they weren't so keen were they?!

  • Comment number 22.

    ALL DOWN TO CULTURE? (#21)

    Just guessing Liz: did we control India because they were acquiescent? Did they attend to our need to be rulers, in a rather Christian (no, make that Christ-like) way? I vaguely remember the Indigenous Americans might have acted similarly?

    Similarly, the Dalai Lama remains placid when he speaks of the horrors inflicted by China. I guess it is all down to maturity and wisdom. Not an area we excel in.

    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 23.

  • Comment number 24.

    #22 Why were the Indians so quiet Barrie, 'cos they were already controlled by their various Raj leaders.

    The american indians were a different kettle of fish, they fought, long and hard, and who can blame them. But they are a very good example of how one can be blinded by propaganda. As a child watching cowboy and indian films, I always rooted for the cowboy, now I am wise!!! ( ;o) ) I realise just what the indians were fighting for!

  • Comment number 25.

    #14 What I can't understand Indi, as you mention the EDL, why there isn't an English National Party. The Scottish have the nationalist party SNP then there is the nationalist party of Wales Plaid Cymru, why haven't the English got one?

    It's a mystery!

  • Comment number 26.

    23. At 15:14 28th Feb 2012, ecolizzy wrote:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100140001/free-nhs-treatment-for-foreign-hiv-patients-no-wonder-were-out-of-cash/
    We are mad, literally mad


    One can therefore only wonder what sanity the Newsnightie team will decide needs 'analysing' or 'discussing', and with whom, tonight.

    Guessing the Protests Editorial team will be up in arms, and out in force over the termination of a pet project able to preoccupy many a heart.

    I recall a course of treatment that may have helped my Mum with her dementia, but the medicos decided couldn't be justified on a cost basis.

    Of course, she had only contributed to the system for about 60 years up to that point.

    Maybe she voted the wrong way?

    Not an error her son will be repeating.

  • Comment number 27.

    PROBLEM FAMILIES GENERATE CRIME - WHO GENERATES PROBLEM FAMILIES?

    I keep posting this: I was within a hair's breadth of being criminal - full of undirected anger. Had I been locked up I WOULD HAVE COME OUT MORE ANGRY. I have a visceral affinity with rioting arsonists and looters. They don't make choices; the options THEY needed were discounted BY GOVERNMENT.

    Westminster has shaped the culture of this country - a really unpleasant one.

    To Westminster I say: "ASK NOT WHAT THE DISENFRANCHISED SHOULD DO TO SUIT YOU; ASK WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE FOR THE (now) DISENFRANCHISED".

  • Comment number 28.

    Paxo will be wringing his hands and beating his breast next week when he'll be meeting the Mau Mau.

  • Comment number 29.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 30.

    Maggie.. I fear I contravened a house rule, whereby I shared a URL from the BBC about those cuddly freedom fighters (acceptable, no doubt), and contrasted it with one from the wrong sort of media, The Daily Mail, that was less complimentary.

    Not even a picture, such as those the BBC likes to share of, say, Col. Gaddafi's last moments, to cause concern to delicate sensibilities.

    It was considered likely to... disrupt, provoke, attack or offend others
    Be racist, sexist, homophobic, sexually explicit, abusive or otherwise objectionable
    Or contain swear words or other language likely to offend.

    Possibly all twelve.

    So I guess Mr, Paxman's magnum opus on our history will be all there is via the BBC to 'educate and inform' the UK public on this aspect of history in a more... 'appropriate' manner.

    I do hope he, and his employers, are proud of their contributions in this regard.

  • Comment number 31.

    Re: 'Paxo's British Empire apology programme'

    Programme did not mention why British Empire sucessful for so long (as arguably still is) as having a Commonwealth linked by an worldwide Anglican Church of which the/our Queen is the senior figure.

    The 'British' (English really, as the Scottish & Irish slave traders came later) - organized themselves on the basis of Christian values - although very often unrecognisable & distant at the time.

    That is why the world had British/American colonisation as being the most 'successful' followed by French, Dutch & far ahead of Germans (Ouch!) and Spanish & Portuguese (Ouch!) and Turks (Ouchy Ouch!) Russians (Ouch Ouchy Ouch!) and Japanese (Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!) and ... the Belgians ++++ ++++ ++++ ++++

    That's a good excuse for another 'BBC jolly', spending even more money overseas - putting right their apologist BE lament?

    BBC - Just hire some off dole, share your jobs out and stop wasting 'our' money?

  • Comment number 32.

    Junkkmale, You'll be sent away for re-education if you're not careful. All you have to remember is that those lovable Mau Mau suffered horribly at the hands of the heartless British and that they never massacred any British women and children, Oh no - especially now they are distant relations of Barak Obama.

  • Comment number 33.

    please don't give jp any more docs. that empire stuff was tedious. whoever did the music and research and storyboard missed an opportunity. no prizes for that muddled fuddled show.

  • Comment number 34.

    There is irony to be 'enjoyed' here.

    Imagine a British institution, in fact one that bears the word in its name, that accuses one of anything from murder to rape to scaring the horses to inspiring fits of the vapours... and then.... as judge, jury and punishment finds you guilty... without ever specifying which offence it is actually for (or, with expereince, accepting that it needs to subsequently)'

    The Empire may have had its faults, but those who lived, and died in forging it would probably not be best thrilled at who now has taken it upon themselves to grasp the reins in guidance now.

    I'm not either, and were it not so unique a set of compulsions that obliges me to fund them in so doing, I would not.

    It's like a rather unfortunate pairing between Pastor Neimoller's warning poem and Douglas Adams' 'Beware of the Leopard' basement file.

    Not in a good way.

  • Comment number 35.

    34.
    At 17:56 28th Feb 2012, JunkkMale wrote:

    There is irony to be 'enjoyed' here.
    Imagine a British institution, in fact one that bears the word in its name,

    ++
    The Foreign & Scottish Broadcasting Corporation - now that we're globalised with our influence, debts and taxes and the 'BBC's jolly staff & freelancers'?

  • Comment number 36.

    Anyhoo.. at risk of the BBC admitting it censors all media bar the Guardian (especially on matters of creative tax accounting)...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2107575/Empire-Jeremy-Paxman-trashes-Raj-scorns-Queen-Victoria.html

    I blame the cuts (poor Mau-Mau humour).

  • Comment number 37.

    I watched the doc about London underground and my brother watched Paxo....I wonder who won....I must have, as he switched over half way through, we used to have the Empire in red in our school, we trudged home to out two up two down, outside loo, leaking roof and ration book menus, we were all Empire builders back then, it's still the same now, same people in charge...the only difference? The loos are on the inside.......

 

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