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Tuesday 4 October 2011

Sarah McDermott | 11:54 UK time, Tuesday, 4 October 2011

Jeremy is in Manchester tonight with all the action and analysis from the third day of the Conservative Party conference. There has been a bit of a catflap over human rights, is it the Tories' claws four moment? (Sorry....)

We'll have the annual conference season interview with the Mayor of London (you can re-watch the interviews from 2009, and 2010 here).

This year Jeremy asks Boris if he'd consider standing for Parliament while serving as Mayor, and is offered a hand from Boris should he ever decide to give up his day job presenting Newsnight and run for leader of the Conservative party.

And Jeremy will be joined by an audience of 70 Conservative women to discuss the reasons for the government's worsening polling with woman, and to work out what more the Conservatives could do to appeal to women.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 2.

    What more could Conservatives do to appeal to women?

    They cannot.

    It seems to be in the DNA of a braying male Tory politician to be deeply unpleasant to women, especially to women politicians.

    It is very offensive and essentially cowardly for these men to behave in this way.

    It seem to me that it is all bound up in the 'macho' culture at Westminster.

    One would like to think that an English Parliament will, one day, be a place that actively welcomes the immense contribution that women make to our life in England.

    We are currently a long way from that - although even the establishment in England are slowly waking up to the possibly - as journalist Simon Jenkins recently stated in this weeks MoS, which is encouraging for all those people who believe in {political} England.

  • Comment number 3.

    "DRUG USE UNDERLIES HALF OF UK CRIMINALITY" (Kenneth Clarke)

    How perverse, then, that Westminster Governance has permitted open sale of the two 'gateway' drugs, for decades, long after the full extent of the damage they do - direct and indirect - was documented. I refer, of course, to ALCOHOL and TOBACCO.

    ALCOHOL is the drug of 'just say yes', to just about anything. Under its influence, trying FURTHER substances becomes easy - even 'required social behaviour'.

    TOBACCO is the precursor drug to FURTHER addictions by inhalation.

    I feel sure Kenneth Clarke knows the above, and it would not be unreasonable to expect him to CARE (BEING A Caring Conservative) but any further comment on ramifications I shall keep to myself (this time) as

    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 4.

    NEEDY BOYS AND WOE-MEN (#2)

    I have to report: I have not found one male MP I would call a 'Man'. Not one that I have contacted, over the Liar Flyer, has had the integrity (honour?) to take up the matter.

    Oh - same goes for the WoeMen - even ones with a grand legal suffix.

    We have a problem.

  • Comment number 5.

    What also puzzles me about the Eurozone debt crisis is why the EU /ECB does not review its VAT policy & slash the overall VAT rate between EU trading members i.e as maintaining the VAT on some goods/imports coming in from outside the EU?

    Can't the idiots in Brussels & Strasbourg ( & London?) see the damage that VAT is going to 'growth' in the Eurozone.

    Why just sit there like lemons?

  • Comment number 6.

    #5 Nautonier

    The EZ countries do not have a single VAT policy.

    They can't do what you suggest as there is no EZ fiscal (taxation) union. They're talking about, they're extremely good at talking about it, but as of today it does not exist. Each EMU member country still has the right to set it's own fiscal policy. A new EZ wide (uniform) fiscal agreement would require a new Lisbon Treaty. Now we all know how long it takes to pass new EU treaties (especially as SOME countries have referenda on these sorts of important FEDERAL issues).

    So don't hold your breath!

  • Comment number 7.

  • Comment number 8.

    6.At 14:45 4th Oct 2011, museV wrote:
    #5 Nautonier

    The EZ countries do not have a single VAT policy.

    >
    Yes
    While there is a lot of red tape regarding VAT in the Eurozone & no matter what rate applied to each country - you would think that the ECB would try & get some concerted action to try & help EU trade?

    The only reason we have VAT is because of EU (as called purchasing tax in UK previously) as operated as a kind of wealth tax - but VAT was intended to meet cost of EU member state contributions?

    Why else have a post income tax, tax on most of the things that we can buy - it is insane, IMO

    Even China has a tax similar to VAT but is operated much more cleverly as an export/import tax system?

  • Comment number 9.

    Now let me think ...... Hmm!

    Why are female voters drifting - ? understatement - away from the tory party?

    Policies? Awakening? Frustration?

    Oops!

    Am I allowed to say “frustration”?

    I know, I’ll apologise and say typing it wasn’t really a true indicator of what I’m really thinking ...... just so to avoid being moderated! Yes, that’s it ....

    I apologise!

    AKA

    I want you to continue reading this post!

    Or in ‘politico speak’ ....

    I want power for another five years!

    Which is why we’ve had all these pointless policy proposals ‘heralded’ since last Friday.

    Most of which will probably never see the light of day!

    Thank psycho-crutch (to some) for that!



    And ‘Oh yes’!

    From the “Nn Daily Blurb” .....

    ‘And he'll be joined by an audience of 70 Conservative women ......”

    Why?

    What exactly is the point of inviting “an audience of 70 Conservative women” to discuss ....

    (“discuss’ That’s a laugh if they’re anything like last night’s ‘self anointed’ party - ‘I’m on the way up, if I keep to the script’ - clones!)

    ....... “the government's worsening polling with woman ....”?

    Surely most of the (self) chosen ‘seventy’ will be fully ‘briefed’, by their own choosing of course, because they too will be “‘self anointed’ party - ‘I’m on the way up, if I keep to the script’ - clones!”

    Nn doesn’t do ‘public’!

    But surely ..... Surely! .... if you want to discuss “the government's worsening polling with woman” you ask women whom are deserting the ‘Q-ship’ - think about it! - not women whom will ‘tow the party line’?

    N’est pas?

    Or is that too obvious!

    Oops!

    Forgot ....

    “Nn doesn’t do ‘public’!”


    With no sarcastic intent whatsoever ......

    Lead! ...... Don’t wallow!



    270

  • Comment number 10.

    The future was on the cards when the coalition ‘pretenders to the throne’ introduced the five year fixed term parliament (Apologies for repeating myself.) A faustian post election pact if there ever was one. Misled, the GBP had other things to ‘contemplate’ . ..... As assuredly did our honourable sic HMG.

    It (i.e. my thinking) may be based on slightly flawed logic but it is not entirely implausible that the prospect of a UK (? global) meltdown would suit some UK - ? international - New Cons.

    Fear of - unjust - poverty or/and removal of perceived status - causes people whom ‘aspire’ to behave in particularly irrational and/or selfish ways.

    Again, it is not entirely implausible that the situation in Greece suits some of the resident/indigenous ‘haves’. If things go belly up they just move on. (Hence the recent reporting of increased viewing and purchase of -very - up-market properties in London by Greek nationals!)

    Why should/would they, the oligarchs - of whatever this season’s chosen nationality - be in the least bit bothered about the ‘have nots’? Their modus operandi is - profoundly - ‘Profit comes from consumption and if consumption falls then raise prices i.e. Win/win!

    Sadly there is some considerable truth in that ‘we’ in the UK have succeeded in pricing ourselves out of the ’market’. (Selfishly helped, of course, by government since ‘79 ) The reality is those that ‘have’ have led the way, those that would ‘like to have’ have hung on the coat tails of the deception that they too can be a “have” and those that have been bludgeoned into the ‘never to haves’ got bulldozed along for the ride! All too necessary from the point of view of the ‘haves’

    (Hmm! Have I got to have another think I’m having about having it all? How about .... )

    Some of the ‘haves’ can have it all of the time, some of the ‘must haves‘ can have it all of the time, and everybody else can have it too! Doh!

    “Cow economics‘ can never work if everyone believes that there’s ‘steak for all’!

    The 3 Cons* are almost over, bar the biggest ‘con’ of all tomorrow .....

    The ‘I’ll give you prime steak .... no strings .... for all’ speech.

    Double Doh!





    *Ooops! .... Omitted to type the ‘ference’ bit.

    Actually I left it off deliberately as “Conference” is a misnomer i.e. they do less conferring every year ....

    .....and more - and more - Conning!


    400.

  • Comment number 11.

    Best not to post while drinking alchohol?

  • Comment number 12.

    With all due respect, we are not going to learn much from 70 Conservative women as to why the party is losing favour with women in general.

    We know that the Government is focused on the economic situation and that their emphasis is on the main bread-winner in a family, which their policies seem to skew towards men, when these policies should really be gender-neutral.

    I imagine that simply reflects the patriarchal conservative view, which is really outmoded.

    If Paxman slips in any double-entendres, as per Cameron and his 'frustrated' poke at one of his own women MP's in the HoC, then we will begin to suspect that NewsNight really is moving into low-brow chat-show mode.

  • Comment number 13.

    12.At 17:46 4th Oct 2011, JohnConstable wrote:
    With all due respect, we are not going to learn much from 70 Conservative women as to why the party is losing favour with women in general.

    >

    Interesting point as reminds me of why there are so few female undertakers?

    Anyway, T May made my day today - Cat or no *****ing cat

    Refreshing to hear a politician tuning in to what most people in UK think about criminal immigrants legal or otherwise being deported as dosen't matter whether illegal (those who don't agree then hold a national referendum please).

    Make's us realise that so much that we're given told and hear every day is opinion as stated to represent everyone's views from Land's End to John O' Wotsits

  • Comment number 14.

    An amusing cartoon and thoughtful commentary:

    http://dudelol.com/dad-im-considering-a-career-in-organised-crime/

  • Comment number 15.

    JOHN O'WOTSITS; an attempt at humour which reveals a somewhat ugly trait; a revelling in ignorance/ contempt for all things non-english; yet again on University Challenge last night, we see eight blank faces when asked an elementary question about scottish geography; and Paxman's ridiculous pronunciations of French, Italian or, horror of horrors, German, is legendary.

    But the english go abroad on holiday; only to shout, loudly and slowly, at the locals, who only exist to replicate all things english, except the weather.(I have personal experience of this.)

    Grow up, get out more and learn to love Europe; if england, and I mean england specifically, because in my experience the scots, irish and welsh thrive on Europe - if england participated wholeheartedly in Europe, everyone would benefit. Most of all the english.

  • Comment number 16.

    Teresa May really is something else - she claims to order police chiefs about during rhe riots and is then revealed as being "economical with the truth", in that not only doesn't she have the power to order them anyway, but also what she claimed to have done appears according to the police commanders never to have happened anyway - today she tells us modern myths about the Human Rights Act. She's so committed to building a reputation with the Rightwing that there's nothing she's not prepared to stoop to.

    Government ought to be about principle - doing trhe right thing in the teeth of public opinion, respecting the rights of even the worst terrorist because eroding their rights undermines the rights of us all.

    Teresa May is a chancer who doesn't know what moral fibre is - if we're dumb enough to allow THRA to be ditched, we're the onles who will pay for it in the long run.

  • Comment number 17.

    I can't help speculating that some Judges are being deliberately soft on illegal immigrants etc in order to whip up public support for the end of the Human Rights Act in the UK. The human rights legislation has to be a good thing if interpreted sensibly, after all it was written by the true British in the early 1950s. That is not to say that its perfect and not in need of some revision, particularly in the area of protecting citizens against multinational corporations.

  • Comment number 18.

    15.At 20:35 4th Oct 2011, kashibeyaz wrote:

    kashibeyaz?

    Is that a Gaelic word meaning the 'intolerant one'?

  • Comment number 19.

    17.At 20:43 4th Oct 2011, brossen99 wrote:
    I can't help speculating that some Judges are being deliberately soft on illegal immigrants etc in order to whip up public support for the end of the Human Rights Act in the UK.

    >

    No they may just be:-
    Senile
    Arrogant
    Incompetent
    Cowardly
    Waiting for their big fact public pension & trying to have the easiest life possible as they push soft decisions with Council Taxpayers, local authorities & UK taxpayers, jobseekers, students paying the price for their bad decisions

  • Comment number 20.

    What T May is saying is that some of those foreigners who:

    Traffic children
    Run around without a licence or insurance run people down & kill them & drive off
    Stab people & kill them with multiple stab wounds
    Serial multi rape & stalk women & children
    Kill people & chop them up & bury their body parts in bags all over South London

    etc

    Should be deported irrespective of their claim to human rights?

    Why should anyone in their right mind have a problem with that as is exactly position that British born criminals face overseas

    Even some of the partisan not so funny comedians on here should be able to distance themselves from protecting & extending the rights & privileges of e.g. foreign/immigrant child killers, people traffickers etc

    Now who is for & against this! Please stand up & be counted

  • Comment number 21.

    NATURE IS GENDER NEUTRAL - 2000 WORDS BY FRIDAY (#12)

    " . . . these policies should really be gender-neutral." Why?

  • Comment number 22.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 23.

    I switch on NN and the top story is about Theresa May's pussy! Frankly, that is the last thing I wish to think about over my supper!

  • Comment number 24.

    #15 kashibeyaz wrote:
    “Grow up, get out more and learn to love Europe; if england, and I mean england specifically, because in my experience the scots, irish and welsh thrive on Europe - if england participated wholeheartedly in Europe, everyone would benefit. Most of all the english”

    #20 count me in nautonier; but I have little faith in T May's real motives, or her ability to get any change in the HRA against the opposition within the coalition.

    Easy to see where you’re coming from. Through your blinkered (immigrant) eyes, only Europe requires a capital letter – all components of Britain being in lower case?

    And only a REAL English persons of mature age could possible know what love of our country means to us, and our resentment towards newcomers who judge us and constantly strive to destroy all our inheritance, traditions and customs that our fathers and grandfathers gave their lives for.

  • Comment number 25.

    #12 How can you be gender neutral, surely it is women who have the babies and are able to feed them, so wouldn't it be better to let them raise their babies, instead of this clap trap of men doing the job they don't do very well.

    I notice a great many of our immigrant mothers seem to cope very well bringing up baby.

  • Comment number 26.

    This Paxman Boris Johnson interview is hilarious!

  • Comment number 27.

    #9 and 10 I like your posts JA, we need something a bit different and even interesting on this blog. ; )

    Conned, we're conned by everyone, I can't believe this conference season, I've yet to hear some truth, so no reconciliation with anyone of them for me.

  • Comment number 28.

    Tonight show was littered with cat puns.

    Littered..cat litter..oh never mind.

    The Paxman/Boris interview was mental..but funny.

  • Comment number 29.

    #24 Good points as ever indignantindegene. It's funny, if people don't like us and our way of life, why do they live here? I never understand that, they tell you they are world travellers and anywhere and everyone are better than England and the English, so why stay here?! They are free to walk.

  • Comment number 30.

    Politicians are totally out of touch with the general population, let alone being in touch with Women.
    Also, the conservatives are "talking" about the future, as a cover-up for the fact that they do not have solutions for the present and so, try to make promises for the future; an illusion and no more than that.

  • Comment number 31.

    Taxes

    Someone suggested this to me.

    They said they had noticed a lot less vehicles on our roads, so the government are not getting their expected high revenue from the taxes on fuel.

    So this person said is the idea of introducing an 80mph on motorways and 20mph in towns to raise the consumption of fuel, so that the government get more revenue!

    I thought the person had cracked it! ; )

  • Comment number 32.

    A room full of Tory women!..I don't want to appear sexists or anything but this is my dream scenario.

  • Comment number 33.

    The Jeremy & Boris interview is THE BEST :o)
    :p poor Jeremy being subjected to the woman in the snot green jacket!

  • Comment number 34.

    Furthermore, any party in Government that keeps using as an excuse what the previous government did or not did, is not only childish and a waste of time, but also shows huge lack of responsibility and agility to truly deal with the present problems. Whatever a previous government may have done, you are now in power and it is up to you to sort out any and all messes, should they be indeed, messes; any excuse is a show of incapacity of dealing with matters of governing.

  • Comment number 35.

    Yes the Paxman / Boris interview / fellow Journalists buddying up was funny but it would have been more appropriate on a Parky or Woss programme!

    Come on newsnight get a grip. To see the best 'rottweiler' journalist on TV wasting his time with a buffoon is a waste of licence payers money.

  • Comment number 36.

    Mr. Cameron talks of cuts and lack of money, but I have to ask and if not for the other two wars, how much could be done with the £6.000.000 per week being spent poking our noses in Libya, in matters that history has taught us, always get resolved by the native people. Yes, how many small and medium firms could be helped with that money? How many Youth projects could be started and maintained with that money? Why is that money being spent out there and not in our country?! By securing even more profit to the huge multi-nationals which probably only pay a fraction of their taxes in this country, how many jobs are going to be created by spending all that weekly money, killing people in a wrong action abroad?
    Lack of money?! Have we seen our politicos cut their salaries to half? They earn more than most and it would be an act and show of solidarity, if they did cut their salaries, which of course, they won't.
    Not to mention the "cat case" spoken of today, which only shows the level at which some people are capable of going, to make a point which is not, but because they have nothing else intelligent to say and in fact, that will deal with the problems in our country.

  • Comment number 37.

    Will women ever learn to stop following every ruddy fashion......

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2045016/Raccoon-dogs-skinned-alive-make-cheap-copies-Ugg-boots.html

    It has terrible results for people as well as animals.

  • Comment number 38.

    I'm amazed - did I just hear right? Demographic not AB females aren't interested in politics because are 'reading magazines'??? Oh dear, oh dear. Poor = disinterested/uneducated? The whole point about a discussion about the female role is that it is varied. A highly educated female, interested in the world around her, may well be supporting a family, have financial responsibilities that lower her disposable income...For goodness sake, if we are thinking non-gender roles then please for 'goodness sake' stop this nonsense stereotyping...And this from the woman who was apparently attempting to break down these very stereotypes...

  • Comment number 39.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 40.

    Wow!

    Double Wow!

    Between the time of publication of today’s “Nn Daily Blurb” and the start of the broadcast a thirteen per cent drop (out) in support of - tory - women ( as Nn audience) !

    At this rate by a week today there’ll be no female Cons left!

    Maybe there is a psycho-crutch after all!


    Good to see that Nn unearthed two possible reasons as to why women are - Query - realigning .... politically speaking ....

    The HMP sic sitting in the middle and the HMP sitting to her left!

    How can any sane woman - and that means virtually ( Psychiatry - surely - does have some right of veto after all.) all of them - believe that these two HMP’s ‘represent’ the majority of the better half of the population? (N.B. I have to say better half or I might get redacted ..... physically! )

    They - these two HMP’s - slavishly represent the party line but - ultimately - they are in reality .....

    Looking after Number One!

    Doh!


    One up to barrie S!



    163

  • Comment number 41.

    '...sitting down with a glass of wine after having put the children to bed and having done the shopping and filled up the car..." My God!! Tory Women who have no idea at all about how the rest of the population lives.

  • Comment number 42.

    EMPTY ROADS ARE VERY APPARENT (#31)

    I visit various friends who live 40 - 50 miles W, E and S of Newbury. I also drive locally. There is NO DOUBT that roads are 'empty' compared to the recent past. Hardly surprising. Taking just one facet: if shops are closing, it can only be because shoppers are not taking the car to town. There will be losses in car park charges too! Perhaps buses will feel less pain - pensioners don't pay to go shopping, so their cessation will not be noticed.

    Presumably we shall soon hear the percent drop in petrol and diesel sales? Will there be a 'tipping point', where the overall economic collapse accelerates exponentially?
    What a silly thought - Dave's Conservatives are taking us to the sunlit uplands.

  • Comment number 43.

    If Government is formulating policies towards families, then, in my opinion, they should be gender-neutral insofar as they must not assume that the male will be the primary earner.

    'Gender-neutral' is a term that, like 'elf 'n safety, probably generates quite a few snorts of derision from some quarters and that may be justified in some contexts.

    For instance, you can probably think of examples of jobs that naturally favour one sex over the other, but the sex of the individual applying for a given job should be discounted if that individual proves capable of doing the job.

    For example, until very recently, the world famous Red Arrows had never had a women pilot in the team but eventually one proved up to the job, which demonstrated that a job which might have appeared to be gender-specific, in fact, was not.

    PS. My evening did not go to plan, being mostly spent at a hospital with an elderly relative, so I missed NewsNight, but have just seen a few clips of the 'Boris and Jeremy' show and as the subject of renumeration was mentioned by Johnson, I believe that it has been put into the public domain before now that Paxman and Wark each earn around £1 million per year for their services to the Beeb.

  • Comment number 44.

    Which butters a lot of parsnips.

  • Comment number 45.

  • Comment number 46.

    '41. At 00:14 5th Oct 2011, Jamie Taylor wrote:
    '...sitting down with a glass of wine after having put the children to bed and having done the shopping and filled up the car..." My God!! Tory Women who have no idea at all about how the rest of the population lives.


    Probably.

    Then again, in terms of politico-media establishment opinionators, possibly also not restricted to Tories. Or Women.

  • Comment number 47.

    I don’t think women voters would turn off Cameron based on what he says/does not say in the House of Commons. I suspect the fall in poll ratings is caused by the major cuts implemented across the public sector, because women are more likely to take up part time and temporary jobs, as well as flexible work arrangements which are usually the first ones to go in a recession.

    The cat puns were very funny. It was really amusing to watch Damien Green, a government minister, obliged to come on the programme and defend a cat’s “crucial role” in the judge’s decision not to deport the illegal immigrant in the story. The honourable catwoman obviously wants a change or abolish the human rights act altogether, whereas Nick Clegg just pledged in his conference speech two weeks ago that ‘the human rights act is here to stay’. The coalition is looking a little shakier this year than last.

  • Comment number 48.

    How marvellous that you had some real human beings in the studio to prick your assumptions. The whole country does not see Boris Johnson as prospective PM material and most women are not so humourless and po-faced that they take offence every time Cameron dares to make a joke.
    If you get some more humans into the studio after Cameron's speech they will probably tell you that, contrary to this morning's tedious reporting, they are not all up in arms at the thought of paying off credit and store cards. If you do intend to make sweeping claims about the whole country being unable to pay off credit card debts because of cruel Tory cuts please back it up with statistics.

  • Comment number 49.

    '48. At 08:48 5th Oct 2011, MaggieL -
    If you get some more humans into the studio'


    I think the new iPhone has a doodad to ensure that NN producers' address lists are auto-purged of such creatures. So we get 'pundits', 'experts', 'guests', 'characters', 'celebs' and even, sometimes, 'mums'.

    If you do intend to make sweeping claims about the whole country being unable to pay off credit card debts because of cruel Tory cuts please back it up with statistics.

    Long since been an app for that, too: iSweep. Totally fact free. Only £142.50pa.

  • Comment number 50.

    #29 ecolizzy wrote:

    "#24 Good points as ever indignantindegene. It's funny, if people don't like us and our way of life, why do they live here? I never understand that, they tell you they are world travellers and anywhere and everyone are better than England and the English, so why stay here?! They are free to walk."

    Answer: The welfare state

    (The state which your parents and their parents worked hard to create)

  • Comment number 51.

    '50. At 09:08 5th Oct 2011, museV wrote:
    #29 ecolizzy wrote:

    Answer: The welfare state


    Curse the British and their golden handcuffs!

  • Comment number 52.

    The woman from the Guardian on NN last night ran rings around the two Conservative women MPs imho.

    Paxo's comment to the women to "calm down dears", that was then followed by a "just do it" drew coo's from the female crowd.

    For one brief moment you could see the panic on his face as he suddenly realised his barked order to them to effectivel "shut it" bordered on the offensive.

    The phrase "herding cats" sprang to mind.

  • Comment number 53.

    DISGRACEFUL PRIORITIES (#50)

    You mean those awful immigrant foreigners put money above amenity? Where in the world did they find that example?

    Oh! That might be another reason they come here . . .

  • Comment number 54.

    #50 and 51 I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can't have a welfare state and mass immigration, we have to chose.

    We are now far down the route of the USA, we now have the world and his wife (and kids and grandparents) living here. We cannot support the whole worlds poor, so we must decide if we should throw away all our parents and grandparents sacrifises and hard work.

  • Comment number 55.

    52. At 09:21 5th Oct 2011, museV -

    Nice precis. A Graun 'guest' (guessing no other paper of note has female staff), two sex-selected MPs and Mr. P failing to mod effectively.

    Don't think the iPlayer needs firing up. Again.

  • Comment number 56.

    continuem of 54.... it is being thrown away by degrees slowly, paying for your education, paying for eye tests and glasses, paying for dental care, and now paying for your operations......

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2045391/Well-treat-minor-ailments-pay-say-NHS-GPs.html

    All being done by stealth, without the public actually really noticing, they're either too busy working, or looking for work, or sitting at home watching the telly, or these days down the local religious centre praying.

  • Comment number 57.

    Well wasn't that all more worthy of the headline 'Live at the Apollo' (Manchester) than Newsnight.

    No more or worse/better than I expected. The BJ vs JP was a complete set up and turning into an annual event bearing no relation to politics, life or the universe. Quite entertaining in parts. But I don't prop my eyelids open and keep the brain cells on tick over to be entertained.

    Should no better than to expect anything worthwhile out of Conference season.

    Come on NN - get a grip.

    The all women set up was whose idea exactly? Send them back to school for a very long time. And keep the 'joke' interviews for a weekend late night slot.

    Remember the Frost shows of many years ago - How did it go - Friday was serious, Saturday was arty and Sunday was Satirical. Waytogo!

  • Comment number 58.

    LET'S HEAR DAVE DANCE ROUND THAT ONE! (#56)

    That's a tad more definitive than the cat tale Liz! Will this mean a run on A&E - 'Minor Injuries' - Walk in Centres, or whatever today's name is? Or are they too heading down the privatisation route - and charges?

    Dave now has 'concern' for the mental health of 'problem families' and for the educational state of problem kids, but as they are often the low-paid, they can PHYSICALLY rot, for all COMPASSIONATE Conservatism cares.

    And the strikes, riots and 'difference-based' pitched street battles, HAVE NOT YET KICKED OFF. No doubt all the bank-traders have pre-calculated their 'plays', to gain by the ensuing social breakdown.

  • Comment number 59.

    54. At 09:30 5th Oct 2011, ecolizzy wrote:
    we must decide if we should throw away all our parents and grandparents' sacrifices and hard work.


    Well I'm, rather selfishly, voting (sorry, Barry), with not.

    Now in my 2nd year (and nth Ombudsman) of an NHS/PCT/CQC/DMHOP complaint on elder care failings by 'the system' that has now reached 'Yes Minister' levels of farce.

    Each email dissecting the latest 'sorry it's late; we didn't have time to read the file and so have guessed in our favour' from some sorry department minion now gets an assessment of what I think the cost of their antics has taken away from actually caring for the elderly in favour of box-ticking and backside covering.

    It's going to make a hell of a Panorama, so long as they agree to stick to facts rather than pushing silly agendas.

    Just had a call from a research co. on behalf of the PHSP Ombudsman regarding their 'handling'. Now they are answering an FoI I have submitted as to the reasoning behind my being asked my race, educational level and number of staff as it pertains to my (now deceased) mother's care and rotten oversight.... for the crime of having savings in excess of £23k (under, or squandered, or newly imported, the whole sorry crew would have set up camp in a Portacabin to ensure all checks and balances were secure... not).

    57. At 09:57 5th Oct 2011, BrightYangThing

    It's like my Weatherspoons. I think tonight is (Can't afford) Steak Night.

  • Comment number 60.

    WESTMINSTER IS A MANIFEST FAILURE IN ALL ASPECTS OF GOVERNANCE

    We can't go on like this. But will Dave address the ever-lengthening list of expensive failures?

    A chilling thought: Might the immigrant be best served by Westminster perversity? Might the CONTINUATION of the status quo be worth their support? Might the declining indigene, be the only group to wish to see off Westminster. If the MAJORITY vote for chaos - that's democracy folks. (I think I just joined the MuseV party!)

    DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER

  • Comment number 61.

    brown-dog @ 36

    Did I state anywhere in my previous post @ 33 that the Treasury prints money?

    Printing (electronic) money is the sole remit of the BoE and they may shortly be embarking on another round of QE, which will induce another bout of inflation (last time around it has been estimated that QE added 1.5% to the inflation rate).

    That is what you should expect if the Government debases the currency by allowing the creation of money out of thin air and it that sense, the long-suffering English taxpayer is indeed standing behind this.

  • Comment number 62.

  • Comment number 63.

    Today's BBC theme so far is that David Cameron is a millionaire and is therefore unqualified to hold any opinion about domestic economics, or indeed about any sort of economics, because he has not personally experienced 'poverty'.
    I would like to point out that all of your presenters and most of the Shadow Cabinet are also millionaires and so by this logic are equally unable to empathise with anyone is not a millionaire.

  • Comment number 64.

    '57. At 09:57 5th Oct 2011, BrightYangThing - Friday was serious, Saturday was arty and Sunday was Satirical. Waytogo!

    Just read Jeremy is going to go mano a mano with Eno. That's musikynighty to add to seriousnighty & satiricalnighty. Get skimpynighty and there's a new phenom right there!

  • Comment number 65.

    63. At 11:47 5th Oct 2011, MaggieL wrote:

    I think 'they' got this bizarre logic from twitter (source of all media wisdom), where one genius is stirring up the troops on the basis that he and his homies are the ones who use and need credit cards, and not the rich folks.

    I must say the 'savings' to my austere lifestyle that can be mitigated by such as QuikQuid and Wonga are looking more and more attractive.

    Especially at 'only' 1760% APR, as shared by SKY, who is very upset by the cuts and plight of the poor folk... like its fellow multi-millionaire travellers.

  • Comment number 66.

    THE NEXT TRIBE TO GO MISSING WILL BE US (#62)

    Conservatives line up to extol maths and physics for women, and ‘preparation for the work-place’, for men.

    Not a trace of PREPARATION FOR LIFE. (Where did ‘Wellbeing Dave’ go?)

    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 67.

    The Boris interview was more of interest, in which Boris managed to sneak in his repeated claim that he KNEW Jermemy was a Conservative at heart - somthing which he (BJ)previously placed in print in the 2001 Gen Election pieces he wrote for The Times in which he also claimed he had spoken to JP on the campaign trail and who he liked because he knew JP was a true Tory ' hanger and flogger' . Why does JP not take him to task over these statements?

  • Comment number 68.

    #64 Junkmale

    "...Just read Jeremy is going to go mano a mano with Eno. That's musikynighty to add to seriousnighty & satiricalnighty. Get skimpynighty and there's a new phenom right there!..."

    Well, that could be an interesting piece, presumably pre recorded but surely for the Friday night arts slot - unless Brian is morphing into a serious politician/social commentator.

    This (NN - yes I am talking to you - Producers/Editors) is becoming too much of a habit.

    There is much even in home grown politics to discuss in much greater breadth (ie drop the same old same old familiar faces, voices and theorists) and depth even leaving aside party conferences (in fact yes, lets please do that – leave them aside. They are pointless pontifications, what if’s back slapping preening and parading and should have no place in serious on the spot debate. Give it a week or two after them all and have a cross party debate on the topics of the month. – much more interesting and cost effective. I am now pretty tired of pointless over coverage of any party conferences. If we removed some of the camera's and microphones, some of the kudos the publicity gives that has in recent years brought these events into XFactor like shows – they may even police themselves and in a few years get back to seriously discussing what each party themselves needs to do in the cold hard light of day.

    Real Stories? How about, for example, the whole ethos of the British Media. Take print for starters. Take Monday nights expose (accidental??) of the fact that several newspapers had two pre written accounts of the outcome of the Knox and Sollecito appeal. Trigger happy journalists (and I use the word ill advisedly), desperate to be first (rather than best or most accurate or even factual) with the news hit the button on the 'appeal lost' text. Allowing for confusion over the words heard these reports contained statements that could not possibly have been by anyone - at least not in the context in which they were written. So, in short, they were fabrication and lies.

    I would like the journalists, their editors/owners and a handful of the readers who buy their comics to be grilled to the point of incineration.

    Or, do we get the media we deserve? Answers on a postage stamp please.

    I have another serious topic gnawing at me - wastage of public money at a local level. Later. Maybe.

  • Comment number 69.

    #67 Ithuriel wrote:

    "Why does JP not take him to task over these statements?"

    This is why...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2010/10/monday_4_october_2010.html?postid=101523191

  • Comment number 70.

    24.At 22:45 4th Oct 2011, indignantindegene wrote:

    Well that makes two of us standing up to be counted

  • Comment number 71.

    67.
    At 12:58 5th Oct 2011, Ithuriel wrote: JP was a true Tory ' hanger and flogger'

    Surely not - this can't be the same Jeremy Paxman known for his sense of equity when dealing with student protesters, Labour spokespeople and others who aren't on the right or who don't like being made to pay for bankers' greed; a man known for his probity when dealing with old journalistic and political club-mates from the Tory party - one known for his clear non-partisan politics? Surely not? The public would have noticed by now and NN would be looking for someone who hadn't sold out...!

  • Comment number 72.

    'GRAVITAS' - IS THAT A NEW GIRL BAND? (#68)

    Nuff sed.

    PS - Well written BYT.

  • Comment number 73.

    Geeezz

    What chance is there?

    After listening to M. Portillo's rather biased 'capitalism on trial' piece on r4 last night and his string of 'expert witnesses' , I have come to the conclusion that the only thing that could sort this mess out peacefully is the accidental detonation of a high altitude EMP weapon above the northern hemisphere wiping out all banking, sharehholding, debt and financial legal records in an instant but without any loss of life.

    Surely the russians must have afew still up there past their sell by date which could accidently go off... ooops.... all debt and ownership wiped... awfully sorry about that everyone....vodka anyone?

    ''ruinous inheritance'' qt from the bible I think.

    Non of this is new, its just bigger.

  • Comment number 74.

    #56 ecolizzy wrote:

    "... it is being thrown away by degrees slowly, paying for your education, paying for eye tests and glasses, paying for dental care, and now paying for your operations...
    All being done by stealth..."


    By jove I think she's getting it!

  • Comment number 75.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 76.

    @61 JC "Printing (electronic) money is the sole remit of the BoE¹ and they may shortly be embarking on another round of QE, which will induce another bout of inflation ²(last time around it has been estimated³ that QE added 1.5% to the inflation rate)."

    ¹ Not true - Private banks credit creation accounts for well over 90% of the money in circulation. I don't know the current figure, but here is an historical idea.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_requirement

    ² Banks' bad debts caused the 2008 credit crunch, effectively removing a considerable amount of money from circulation, and possibly, in knock-on effects, reducing the rate of circulation. QE was an attempt to limit the deflationary effects of the crisis. The main beneficiaries were probably the banks, as it enabled them partly to rebuild their balance sheets.

    ³ Estimated by whom? I would want to know the source AND the measure of inflation. There is a schizophrenic attitude to inflation amongst both economists and politicians, with many items excluded. The relationship between "inflation" and disposable income may be complex, and will vary considerably due to individual circumstances.

    Most parts of the UK are suffering/benefiting (depending upon your point of view and circumstances) from house price deflation, which is directly related to both the credit crunch, and actual and anticipated unemployment. Interestingly, the one area which is bucking this trend is London. I wonder (but do not know) whether this is a result of earlier QE being used by banks to support market trading rather than real investment?

    Too much economics is based on ideology and soundbites*. We need a national economic model, subject to public scrutiny, which can be tested against data. People would be free to propose amendments to that model, based upon real data, not upon what they would like to be true.

    *Eg Mr Cameron's exhortation to pay off debt. There is undoubtedly more debt than money in the world#, therefore it can't all be paid off. Our economic system requires an increasing amount of money in circulation in order to function. This in turn drives the perceived "need" for economic growth.

    # In 2008, the net debt in the UK was estimated at approximately £1.4 trillion. The amount of money in deposits and cash was less than half that, at about £600 billion. Debt could only be paid off by a net transfer of the ownership of physical assets from debtors to creditors. If it were all done in a short space of time the notional value of those assets would plummet. To reiterate: our current economic system NEEDS debt in order to function.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/apr/09/creditcrunch.creditcards

  • Comment number 77.

    68. At 13:14 5th Oct 2011, BrightYangThing wrote:

    Real Stories? How about, for example, the whole ethos of the British Media. Take print for starters. Take Monday nights expose (accidental??) of the fact that several newspapers had two pre written accounts of the outcome of the Knox and Sollecito appeal. Trigger happy journalists (and I use the word ill advisedly), desperate to be first (rather than best or most accurate or even factual) with the news hit the button on the 'appeal lost' text. Allowing for confusion over the words heard these reports contained statements that could not possibly have been by anyone - at least not in the context in which they were written. So, in short, they were fabrication and lies.

    I would like the journalists, their editors/owners and a handful of the readers who buy their comics to be grilled to the point of incineration.


    I cut, paste and often repost these in case of subsequent 'editting', which seems more and more prevalent. Sadly.

    Here I do so simply to savour those two paras.

  • Comment number 78.

    Sasha Clarkson @ 76

    1. You are corrrect about private banks being able to create money, I over-looked the FRB capability ... BTW, do you know what the actual FRB ratio is as currently permitted by the BoE?

    By that, I mean for every pound a private bank in England takes in deposit, how many pounds can they lend out?

    2. I am not an economist so accept your point that the first round of QE was an attempt to mitigate deleveraging in the economy.

    3. Ex-BoE member Andrew Sentance is currently complaining that another bout of QE will create inflation in the system but again I accept your point that for the individual, a personal inflation index/calculator is more relevant.

    Thank you for the challenges.

  • Comment number 79.

    @78 Hi JC:-)

    I can't find any current figures. According to Wiki, the UK has a voluntary system anyway.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_requirement

  • Comment number 80.

    '63. At 11:47 5th Oct 2011, MaggieL '

    Not so much a theme... almost a script?

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/7288338/explaining-camerons-debt-uturn.thtml

    'Millionaire David Cameron wants you to pay off your credit card – are you going to obey the Prime Minister?” asked one local BBC radio station phone-in this morning.''

    Rather reminds me of Mrs. Merton, 'which ratings and agenda motherload first attracted your tribal media attention (if a little selectively) to the millionaire Mr. Cameron?'.

    In other news, this risible practice of releasing speeches in advance to be told what a person 'will say', and turn out not to, seems only to serve U-turn obsessives.

    No clue as to why pols comply as it only bites 'em. As a news audience, I consider these advance punts to be worth as much as the word 'will' is these days in any media. ie: not much.

 

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