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Wednesday 17 August 2011

Verity Murphy | 13:44 UK time, Wednesday, 17 August 2011

We have changed what we are leading on tonight to prison sentences; the debate over what is the appropriate level for those convicted of involvement in the riots and whether the courts have treated offenders too leniently in the past.

Also following the news that UK unemployment unexpectedly rose in the three months to June, we will be asking what is going wrong, the threat this poses and looking at measures aimed at reversing the situation, particularly enterprise zones.

As we continue to analyse the fallout from last week's riots we have a report on recent unrest in Gloucester and will be taking another look at sentencing of those involved.

Plus, why do some people seem to lead charmed lives? LSE academic Dr Catherine Hakim has written a book on the power of erotic capital which she says is at the heart of how we work, interact, make money and conduct our relationships.

We will be speaking to the author and debating the issues she raises.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    'Tonight we lead on the surprise rise in UK unemployment, which rose in the three months to June, by 38,000 to 2.49 million, official figures show.'

    Surely you're 'avin a larf?

  • Comment number 2.

    Re Dr Catherine Hakim
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1345520/What-women-REALLY-want-To-marry-rich-man-stay-home-children.html


    Well if it wasn't women who wanted equality who was it that pushed the equality agenda?

    I believe JJ-five names may have provided the answer.

  • Comment number 3.

    Funnily enough you reported on Tuesday, 29th December 2009 that unemployment was 2.49million. It was at that time predicted to peak at 3.2million.
    Yvette Cooper said: "It is encouraging that there are more people in work in the run-up to Christmas. Government action is keeping unemployment much lower than in previous recessions".

    Presumably, thanks to your scrupulously balanced reporting, you will have the same sunny positive attitude towards unemployment this time round?

  • Comment number 4.

    Another statistic from December 2009:
    "The number of 16 to 24 year-olds out of work was 952,000 in the three months to October, a quarterly rise of 6,000 and the highest figure since records began in 1992".

  • Comment number 5.

    WHICH UNEMPLOYMENT FIGURE ARE WE USING?

    A figure from the 'Independent' office of Employment Statistics?

    My imaginery IES above, is an office headed by altruistic saints, who have no connection (even over expensive dinners) with the weasels who run the country, and who are served by minions who have NO IDEA WHICH SIDE THEIR BREAD IS BUTTERED.)

    Or shall we use some figure SO FINELY WROUGHT that it can be quoted to 0.1% of some undefined base WITHOUT INHERENT POSSIBILITY OF ERROR? (The sort of reporting that had Grammar School science masters in fits of purianical rage.)

    Why tell us anything poltical Newsynighty? You, and media generally, long since went over to the Dave Side. Publish/broadcast the stuff - never damned. Damnation is no longer a valid 'state of being'. It now ranks as success.

    Weep Britain.

  • Comment number 6.

    DO NOT CONFUSE WOMEN WITH WOE-MEN (#2)

    WoeMen bring NOTHING BUT WOE to self and society. It is the unfortunate WoeMen who blight the work-life balance we once had. They spread an alien poison of 'competition between the sexes', and use insidious psychology to oppress the non-conformist. But like slave-traders before them, they drove shiploads of cheap labour into Mammon's maw, so that - oh the irony - Fat Cat men could get fatter.

    Their greatest achievement is to have removed 'mothering' from the national psyche.

    THIS IS THE AGE OF PERVERSITY.

  • Comment number 7.

    NN will be asking “what is going wrong, the threat this (rise in unemployment) poses and looking at measures aimed at reversing the situation, particularly enterprise zones’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14552193

    Dave said ”These new enterprise zones will be trailblazers for growth, jobs and prosperity throughout the country.’ But he didn’t admit why we need ‘more growth’ or say who is expected to prosper.
    ‘The scheme has been compared to similar initiatives in the 1980s and 1990s, which saw the transformation of London's Docklands. But there was also criticism of the previous schemes, that they simply moved jobs rather increasing the total” So one man’s advantage is another’s disadvantage: it’s a game of sharing the misery by moving jobs to areas suffering highest unemployment (e.g. as with BBC, many of whom resisted it, some taking rather nice payoffs). But unlike BBC (with generous resettlement and hotels) that brings in the problems of accommodation at these ‘depressed areas and-

    ecolizzy’s link on # 21: “One billion a year for the next twenty five years, (just on housing) for the British to spend on the new immigrants to our shores. http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefingPaper/document/236
    I wonder how that will affect our economy, I can see more riots!”

    The significant tables in that link being:-
    TABLE 2 Average Household Size – showing:
    White British as the lowest average family size of 2.3, compared to 12 other groups, including Indian 2.96; Pakistani 4.11; and Bangladeshi 4.56

    TABLE 4 Proportion of UK’s Population Living in Social Housing – showing:
    UK born at 17%, compared to those born in 11 non EU countries including:
    Zimbabwe 20%; Uganda 21%; Nigeria 29%; Iran 33%; Jamaica 35%; Ghana 39%; Bangladesh 41%; Turkey 49%; and Somalia 80%
    The article points out that the allocation of social housing is a responsibility of local authorities taking account of NEED, and that waiting lists are lengthy.

    Lizzy’s other link @ #22 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026788/UK-population-grows-twice-EU-average-Migrant-baby-boom-fuels-400-000-rise-year.html indicates where that ‘need’ is generated.

    Add to that:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026206/UKBA-paid-12m-compensation-legal-costs-migrants-year.html and there surely is in large part the answer to NN’s question ‘What is Going Wrong ?’

    My belief is that Dave’s ploy is to push for stiff sentences in an attempt to appease the angry electorate AND to toughen the law against future form of strike or riot, the prospect of which must be increasing. As for last night’s NN debate, the Con MP tried the line of democracy ‘it’s what the electorate demand’ knowing that Dave’s demand will be the only one that she dare support; whilst the QC is no doubt looking forward to more big fee-earning as cases are referred to the Court of Appeal. http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/bad-sentences-appease-angry-uk-1

  • Comment number 8.

    Paul M blog having some issues so i will stick it on here instead.

    I dont think there is any co-incidence that a strong sense of community in adversity engenders a strong sense of well being.

    There would be v strong evoloutionary pressure and preference for that to be the case, we are probably hard wired for it to an extent to 'come together' when things are bad in a tribal type way and to 'feel good about it'.

    It seems we don't have the same dynamic going on when we are in times of plenty, the opposite behaviour kicks in and we become protective of what we have and cautious of engagement with others.

    Again, probably sound biological reasons for that.. but it dont make for happy campers on planet earth!

    The trick is to have a strong sense of community and well being but without the filth.

    I suppose you could consider that we have been artificially trying to create those conditions for decades in council estate after council estate.. and failed. Their residents are artificially held in biological happiness 'limbo' or something between those 2 conditions.

    I have no doubt that there is some answer to all this which will be tied into the required changes to the failing global economic model.

    I don't think the answer will be to actively say that people in slums are happier than people in council estates so lets allow them to turn into slums... hmmmmm.....hardly feels like progress that one...more to the point nobody will vote for it either.

    There is, i think, a way to give people the basics in a sustainable way that is not comfortable living AND offer them the opportunity to better that into comfortable and sustainable living by community participation, be it being part of a team responsible for maintaining the local park or growing some of your own food on communal allotments.

    The fall back position in society should look more like a partially subsidised 'kibuttz' and less like a council estate.

    The starting point for that has to be acceptance that sustainable growth in a high tech society is an oxymoron and huge chunks of the population will be condemned never have the chance to work in such a society and will be condemned in ever larger numbers to a life in limbo.

    Many people may actually choose the 'kibbutz' type lifestyle option, others may have both the desire and talent to enter into a much narrower but equally dynamic parrallel capitalist world of big gains and losses, fancy cars, celeb etc but all underpinned by something which everyone can fall back on (if they contribute) and is self sustaining.

    Simples !!!

    Dont know why I bother though nobody ever listens..

    perhaps i should try a different tack'''

    'HOUSE PRICES GUARANTEED TO GO UP FOREVER AT 10% A YEAR...JOIN A COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT SCHEME NOW !!!!

    RESEARCH SHOWS IT IS EQUIVALENT IN THE HAPPINESS IT GENERATES TO HOUSE PRICES GOING UP 10% A YEAR FOREVER'

    Worth a shot?

  • Comment number 9.

    Rather than fretting and gibbering about a number, please spend some time explaining the composition of the numbers; the number of single mothers, for example, moving from one benefit to another, in this case jobseekers allowance, the number of disability allowance claimants being assessed as capable for work and so moved to unemployment/jsa.

    This relaxed attitude to unemployment numbers rising is akin to Thatcher's era; indignant Dave has got a new suit; surprise!

  • Comment number 10.

    EXCERPT FROM GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT - READ AND WEEP.

    REF: #7 "As for last night’s NN debate, the Con MP tried the line of democracy ‘it’s what the electorate demand’ knowing that Dave’s demand will be the only one that she dare support;"

    "THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF YOUR MP" (section 11 of Gov factsheet)

    "At times a constituent's demands may conflict with party policy and your MP will have to decide where their FIRST LOYALTY should lie. The Member may think that, in any case, a majority of constituents would support the party policy - after all that is likely to be one of the reasons why they elected him or her.
    Does anyone know how SECOND LOYALTY feels? Is it a bit like Nick’s signature?
    It's not democracy and it's not representation (it's barely logic) . . .

    WHY DO GOOD MEN DO NOTHING AND LIE DOWN UNDER THIS?

  • Comment number 11.

  • Comment number 12.

    #8 Jericoa
    “The starting point for that has to be acceptance that sustainable growth in a high tech society is an oxymoron and huge chunks of the population will be condemned never to have the chance to work in such a society and will be condemned in ever larger numbers to a life in limbo.”

    I can only repeat the mantra – there js a finite limit to the creation of real jobs.

    Quite apart from technology, which reduces work content (particularly for unskilled and poorly educated people) we now have a further 400,000 immigrants (last year alone) hoping to find employment in this once-prosperous nation. More and more work created BY and FOR a burgeoning population - transport, housing, schools public services health, care, nail/hair salons – will not provide exports to redress our massive trade deficit.

    “I don't think the answer will be to actively say that people in slums are happier than people in council estates so let’s allow them to turn into slums... hardly feels like progress that one...more to the point nobody will vote for it either.”

    What has ‘voting for it’ got to do with achieving anything or progress? Without Barrie’s spoilpartygames (how else but PR voting?) the ballot box is just gesture democracy.

    We haven’t (yet) reached the standard of the Pasig River slums (NN last night) although we have many immigrants living in over-crowding and in sheds, but the gap between rich and poor is increasing and we have been warned of worse to come.

    “The fall-back position in society should look more like a partially subsidised 'kibuttz' and less like a council estate.”

    I don’t see the Philippines spirit of communal living happening in UK. I live both in Philippines and in a ‘deprived’ area in UK where £47million of Labour’s New Deal failed to deliver much evidence of community integration: payment expected
    for all services provided and free transport, etc. We’ve passed the tipping point Dave, I’m off to an enterprise zone near Pasig River.

  • Comment number 13.

    #12

    You may well be right, we probably are past the tipping point in this country now, the option for a sensible and managed progression to SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE AND ******** WORKS is gone. (gosh I feel better for that)

    Maybe we will get there in the end but it seems more likely, sadly, pathetically, embarrasingly that we will get there via a period of immense unmanaged upheaval, chaos and misery.

    So much for human kind being the smart biological inhabitants of the planet... sod joining an enterprise zone near Pasig river, I would like to be genetically re-engineered into a Dolphin please.

    Seems quiet on here tonight, I suppose enlightened types whom habitually congregate here on the steps of a crumbling journalistic church have been ''spoilt'' recently with riots, financial collapses, mass murder, mass starvation and the depraved morals of media moguls and their friends in politics to go at.

    Y'know, if i did not keep reading that 'house prices are on the up' again or 'less worse than expected increase in unemployment' type headlines I would think that the world is in a slow motion humpty dumpty type way is broken on the floor and we are close to the point of illumination when we realise that all the kings horses and all the kings men are not going to be able to put humpty together again.

    night night jj?

  • Comment number 14.

    #13 errata (excluding spelling and poor grammer which would take a while)

    ''I would think that the world is in a slow motion humpty dumpty type...''

    Should read .

    ''I would think that the HUMAN world in a slow motion humpty dumpty type...''

    I dont want to insult the Dolphins.

  • Comment number 15.

    #11 lizzy

    Look at who wrote that anti-islamic piece in the Telegraph.

    In fact, I will save you the time. It was written by Richard Landes.

    His Wiki website states:

    "Landes is a strong supporter of the state of Israel, and a vigorous critic of what he considers anti-Israel propaganda in professedly objective news reports, and from supposedly impartial neutral bodies."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Landes

    Only the general use of Wiki on the internet has provided the ability to instantly check out peoples backgrounds and find out what their angle is.

    This guy's a full-on libertarian neocon anarchist. Of course he attacks the enemies of Little Satan i.e. the anti-usury muslims.

  • Comment number 16.

    STILL LISTENING TO DAVE . . .

    Surely one might reasonably expect the leader of an 'advanced' nation - with a history of high quality in thought of all kinds, and possessing ancient centres of learning-excellence, known worldwide - to be a man of deep gravitas, ponderous wisdom and spare but telling utterance.

    Is it me?

  • Comment number 17.

    14 regarding your Wiki link:

    So is Richard landes wrong in his views or do you just disagree with them?

    Who wrote the wiki page on Landes?

  • Comment number 18.

    Sorry, that should've been Muse at 15 regarding link

  • Comment number 19.

    POIGNANT POINT (#11 and #15)

    When English children had mothers, honour and shame were POWERFUL ARCHYTYPES in the land. Much of the well-thumbed fiction, borrowed from local libraries, was written in such terms.

    Then the cloying darkness, of the better life, came. Honour and shame were lost, along with embarrassment (for poor service or offensive acts).

    But relax - a new Big Brother is scheduled - any higher human qualities would spoil the FUN.

    Weep Britain

  • Comment number 20.

    #15 Surely muse if you are anti usury you are anti capitalism, from the point of view that people should lend money for free, and not get any financial reward for doing so. So how does anyone ever buy their own house, or perhaps car? I'm not for borrowing to buy trinkets, but there's no way anyone in britain can buy a house without usury of some sort. And don't you think savers should be rewarded for their lending of their money?

  • Comment number 21.

    EROTIC CAPITAL?

    Was I watching flagship BBC, or am I spelling 'ship' incorrectly?

    Just can't wait for the Burcow to be news-lead every night.

    Well done NewsyNighty.

  • Comment number 22.

    Re the Gloucester riots

    Robin Denselow stated:

    "I understand that most of the rioters were white"

    Understanding is not the same as knowing.



    #20 lizzy

    There are Muslim Banks that do not charge interest.

    When I use the word usury, I refer to the charging of excessive interest. You may have noticed that the banking "industry" in the West has largely gone unregulated for the past decade and they have run amok with the economies of nation states. They did this by privatising the profits only to then socialise the losses. This is why we now have soveriegn debt problems and austerity measures to pay for it. The burden was transferred onto the taxpayers. Excessive interest rates can cuase a relatively minor debts to spiral into a dangerous huge debts. as has happened in Greece.

    Usury is the charging of excessive levels of interest.

    I am anti usury. I did not say I was anti the charging of interest on loans.

    Remember, even the Christian religions used to be anti usury.

  • Comment number 23.

    I HAVE STRUGGLED ALSO LIZZY (#20)

    I am guessing the problem lies in our English programming.

    Random thoughts: a solvent and viable person can lend money, to a person of integrity, for NO OTHER REWARD THAN KUDOS GAINED. If the advantaged person prospers they, in turn, can in time lend, by the same token. For a larger amount such lenders might unite. So long as no individual lends above what they can afford to lose, even default is without real harm, and more kudos accrues.

    Reckon?

  • Comment number 24.

    Re: LSE academic Dr Catherine Hakim
    My comment is not to argue against Ms Hakim's thesis. Her views are so offensive that any dialogue can only encourage her. My comment is why does Newsnight use license payers money to give such her a platform. If she didn't have a Phd she would be considered beyond the pale. An example of the usual middle class toleration of their own class/”academic” views however reactionary.

  • Comment number 25.

    AH - CHRISTIANITY - WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THAT? (#22)

    THEY used to do Honour and Shame (though, much like our politicians, it was more for others than themselves.)

  • Comment number 26.

    #22 "There are Muslim Banks that do not charge interest."

    Yes muse I read this over and over again, and do you know what I don't believe it. No one in this world is that ultruistic that they lend money for free, there is obviously some way around it.

    "Usury is the charging of excessive levels of interest."

    So are you very happy with the BOE for setting such low interest rates?

    "Remember, even the Christian religions used to be anti usury"

    Yup I know money lenders in the temple and turning tables over.

    But I can't say that being anti usury is going to make the Islamic religion appeal to me, there's lots of other things I don't like.

  • Comment number 27.

    I find this utterly incredible

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027223/Migrant-jobs-boom-Were-chance-saloon-claims-Iain-Duncan-Smith.html

    But I'm aware of the word of mouth method of employment among newcomers, a couple of them I know have 2 jobs each, so no chance for the poor ole brit.

  • Comment number 28.

    #17 kev wrote:

    "So is Richard landes wrong in his views or do you just disagree with them?"


    I just don't trust his views. I trust data. He offers no data, what-so-ever, to back up his rhetoric.

    If he is not Jewish, then why does he so vigorously defend the state of Israel?

    If his Wiki site is not accurate, then I'm sure he would make sure it was corrected. Anyhow, it's well known what his for Israel are following his attacks on the Goldstone report.

    Most of the libertarian anarchists are nvery arcissistic by nature, so I'm sure he regularly "looks at himself" on the internet.

  • Comment number 29.

    MuseV.
    I think the definition of usery is somewhat blurred/fine tuned over the centuries. And yes, as you say the Christians were anti-usery..but only due to the fear of hell and damnation. They let the Jews charge the interest on lending money and which explains why Jews are good with money today.

    Erotic capital:
    Would the Warkster and Emily be fronting the BBC news flagship show if they looked like old boots?...I think not (let that one go Barrie)

    Sometimes we need to relax..especially after the last couple of weeks with the events in the country; too much news can blow the mind. Can I suggest this then:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91EJwsIVOqU

  • Comment number 30.

    IAN DUNCAN SMITH - REMIND ME . . . (#27)

    What was his last great achievement - again? Did he do anything, of note, after granting Tony his war (2003)?

  • Comment number 31.

    Just a thought before retiring to bed.

    In my non-belief system, atheism, I’m quite willing to accept that some people may or may not like usury. Similarly, I’m quite happy that some people may or may not like anarchy, bigotry or celibacy. As long as the views and beliefs of others do not directly affect my life and lifestyle, that’s fine.

    Although I have mainly enjoyed living and working with men and women of several different races, cultures and religions, I will continue to prefer the company of people with similar cultures and values to my own; that’s in harmony with the rest of nature’s species. I’m not about to change my customs or values MERELY on the basis of changes in the mores of society or edicts of governments of various persuasions, be they socialist, liberal, communist or foreigners (EU). My conscience is paramount. In that respect, I may sometimes be in conflict with statutes that have been placed in law, but without my consent and therefore not in my name. As examples, I did not attend Brighton’s Pride event last weekend, I did not vote for multiculturalism, and I did not like those two red-haired women on Newnight, or their views, mainly because they looked like two Swan Vestas matchsticks. Goodnight all.

  • Comment number 32.

  • Comment number 33.

    RED HAIR AND HIDDEN NEED (#31)

    I enjoyed your candid post IDG2. Do you think we might get Dave to express himself in a similar low-key way?

    Do you remember I used to post about St Tony's ONE BLACK TOOTH. For a man of supposed status - who was CHARACTERISED by his Rentagrin teeth - to see that one stained lower incisor, stare back at him from the mirror, and not have the hygienist clean it, SPOKE OF FETISH.

    It is now evident to all but the most zealous New Labour dullard, that Tony had more demons than you could shake a stick of bombs at.

    The lady NEEDED that hair - but why?

  • Comment number 34.

    Sorry I missed last night's prog - it seems to have been more interesting than some.

    @30 IDS displays a strange mixture of realism and naivete. One thing in his favour: he didn't milk the expenses gravy train like so many.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5371119/MPs-expenses-Members-who-try-to-cut-their-costs.html

    @29 Kevsey - nice link. We do need to relax. The problems haven't gone away of course, but society as a whole, all sides, needs to reflect upon matters with a cool head.

    I'm a militant agnostic, but I love the final words of this hymn:

    " Breathe through the heats of our desire
    Thy coolness and Thy balm;
    Let sense be dumb, let flesh retire;
    Speak through the earthquake, wind, and fire,
    O still, small voice of calm! "

  • Comment number 35.

    @32 A good link, which the BBC should follow up.

    Interesting that at least one of the firms benefiting from this state-subsidised cheap labour, also has a controversial tax structure.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesco

  • Comment number 36.

    IAIN DUNCAN SMITH - A JUDGEMENT CALL (#34)

    Hi Sasha. I am having a crisis of confidence that you - for a moment - seem to regard IDS as 'viable'.

    The 2003 vote for war, relied on the Tory, whipped vote under IDS - yes?

    I have seen (studied) IDS, with that dreamy look in his eyes, confirm that Blair carried him along to that vote, with the force of his (Blair's) certainty. THAT DAMNABLE CERTAINTY.

    I assert IDS' naiveté is absolute, and his realism an oxymoron.

    Westminster perversity is characterised by the constant RE-INSTALATION of past failures, rule-breakers and 'operators'. They return to general mirth and astonishment in media, then blend in, and continue as before. Such symptoms of the Westminster Malaise, are what I am ever at pains to highlight. We have 600+ very peculiar individuals purporting to govern this country while, in truth, they are distracted by a range of sub-routines called 'politics'. By my analysis, IDS is a Creature of this surreal world.

    The consequences of being ungoverned (bereft of skilful management) are all around. They have been for decades. The war is an obvious blunder, as is immigration. The list you know. But what of the trail of failed 'initiatives' - black holes down which vast money was poured, achieving nothing (except plum board-retirements for ex-ministers)?

    Britain's driving software is corrupted. Westminster is infected beyond any cleansing process. A corrupt pretence rides a corrupted institution.

    I cannot challenge Westminster. And no appeal procedure. I cannot challenge a political party. And no appeal procedure. When I challenge my MP, he has handy guidelines to avoid, parry or block. I am required to appeal TO HIM!

    One anomaly: government suggests appeal to a Lord, if ones MP is 'compromised'. No Lord I have written to has replied - except to repel.

    CAN YOU SEE WHAT IT IS YET?

  • Comment number 37.

    This is potentially a very important development that has got the libertarian anarchists in a panic.

    European markets hit by eurozone Robin Hood tax plans
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/17/european-markets-hit-robin-hood-tax

    But look at the Telegraph's piece on the same subject...

    Government would veto tax on financial transactions
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8707510/Government-would-veto-tax-on-financial-transactions.html

  • Comment number 38.

    After all that the bankstas have done to ruin the economy, privatised their profits and socilaised the losses via austerity onto the taxpayers, they, and their protagonists/apologists, are still wailing and screaming about taking some responsibility for clearing up their mess.

    The Robin Hood tax was summarily dismissed by the powers of finance in the UK during 2009, but look again at how the appeasers of the bankstas i.e. the likes of the IOD are utilising the same tactics again.

    But you have to remember that London is the crapital of the libertarian free-market anarchist usury world. Finance reigns supreme and has totally captured our legislature system as it has in the US. Look at who sponsored Obama for instance.

    If nothing else, these libertarians are certainly consistent in their actions to protect "their" business.

    As stanilic often said "No austerity without wholesale banking regulation reform".

  • Comment number 39.

  • Comment number 40.

    @36 Barrie - I wasn't suggesting that IDS was viable, just not venial like many politicians.

    Although I think the Iraq war was a terrible mistake, but I don't necessarily regard all those who supported it as evil criminals.

    When making a judgement about people's views and actions, you have to consider their background. IDS is RC, ex-guardsman and a full-blown member of the ruling class. I would not have expected him to oppose Tony over the war. I don't wish to put words in his mouth, but I would imagine that what he thought was a duty of loyalty to the country and armed forces outweighed whatever doubts he may (or may not) have had.

    Since being ousted from the Tory leadership, I think that IDS has had somewhat of a crisis of confidence in the established order. I rather suspect that he has a long way to go on his personal journey, and that there will be further crises of conscience and courage ahead of him. It will be interesting to see where he ends up.

  • Comment number 41.

    Why do the coalition think they can defy economic "gravity"?

    To expect to be able to take £110 Bn out of the economy which translates into a reduction in aggregate demand of up to £1 Tn on top of galloping inflation caused by their devaluation of Sterling, rapidly falling UK living standards as wages fall behind, plus the debt crisis hammering our main export market and the stagnation in the US and other strategic economies without this leading to a big rise in unemployment and a deep recession is quite frankly so ludicrous it leaves me fuming.

    Get real: there is about to be a steep fall off in demand, production and retail sales - the key factor is DEMAND - domestic and export. People are maxed out on their credit, exports are falling already, manufacturing output is contracting, construction is about to fall off a cliff, the public sector is about to shed hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    THERE IS NOWHERE LEFT FOR GROWTH TO COME FROM!

    To blunder on with massively recessionary policies now is economic suicide.

    Yes we need to address the deficit, but this isn't going to work - Mr Chote from the government's own Office for Budgetary Respnosibility has already said their growth forecast is not going to happen - ditto the IMF. Without growth and with rising unemployment the UK deficit will RISE, not fall and to go on and make things even worse by driving the UK into a deep recession is unforgiveable.

    I'd go further - if this siucidal strategy s being implemented not for the stated economic policy reasons, but is in truth a smokescreen for ideological reasons connected to the libertarian obession with shrinking the state in the full knowledge that it will do massive damage to the prospects of this country, then there comes a point where a line is crossed and politics moves from legitimate debate into a different ballgame - and those whose lives, home, jobs and families are being knowingly thrown on the economic bonfire will feel that they are being betrayed - and people who betray their country are defined as "traitors" - and their actions are defined as "treason".

    We are not at this point - but many people feel we are moving rapidly towards it.

  • Comment number 42.

    #41 rb

    Good rant!

    And I agree 100%.

    But the neocon libertarians have captured the legislature, the MSM, the judiciary and police (funny handshakes 'n' all).

    Look at how desperately Cameron did his utmost to portray last week's riots as merely criminal activity and had nothing to do with political demonstration...and the MSM just fell into line to that effect (hat tip Mr Murdoch). Sadly, the libertarian BBC fell into line as well. The fact that these riots occured in the poorest parts of our country, was of course, pure coincidence. The riots were political, they were looting, not shoplifting.

    What is one to do?

  • Comment number 43.

    #41 richard,

    LOOTERS IN SUITS

    Looks like the deficit just go £4,878 bigger!

    £4,878 bill to re-cover ministerial suite sofas
    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/politics/article-23979315-pound-4878-bill-to-re-cover-ministerial-suite-sofas.do

    Now can someone please remind me on what grounds the looters were apprehended by having their front doors kicked in the morning after.

  • Comment number 44.

  • Comment number 45.

  • Comment number 46.

    Let all the PC riddled Bleeding Hearts cry their collective eyes out and anxiously wring their hands for the Rioters and Looters whilst truly decent people save every last drop of their sympathy for their victims - the ordinary hard working mugs who pay their taxes and have had their businesses and homes destroyed. You know, the ordinary, law abiding tax payers who the Labour party pretend to represent but, in reality, couldn't care less about - Personally, I'm on their side and so would any sensible person.

    The BBC and the Labour party are only actually interested in over representing their natural Client State of criminals, their useful idiot apologists, benefit dependents, public sector parasites, failed Teachers & Yoof workers, unelected "community leaders", etc, etc, etc, etc...

  • Comment number 47.

    #44 lizzy

    Re Tobin Tax

    That story from The Daily Mail really is just an exercise in pure spin.

    You must remember that the City of London is a completely separate legal entitity compared to the rest of the UK. In fact it can almost be considered as a tax haven within the UK soveriegn state. Do you remember that link from Brossen (may have been sasha) a few days ago detailing this?. The City, over the centuries, has secured separate legislation from numerous sovereigns in order to protect it's special legal status and it's capital.

  • Comment number 48.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 49.

    cont.

    The story is being spun as EU action against the UK as a whole, when in fact it's only against the bankstas etc. Remember, they are the ones that caused all this mess and the EU are just trying to get these libertarian snakes to clean up their own mess. The money, currencies, equities (shares) being traded in the City are mainly for private "investors" (speculators). It's the these private investors and the banks and brokerages that will take the hit, not the UK.

    John Redwood (who I have had the misfortune to meet) has held many non executive board membership jobs with many of the companies in the square mile. His has a long background in the banking/finance business.

    He is literally making it up as he goes along.

  • Comment number 50.

    IDS STUDIES (#40)

    I did do my research Sasha. I found much that could be expected (as delineated by you). This underlines why I never stop calling for maturity in leaders.

    Dave's immaturity is eye-watering. His slogans have a Toytown quality.
    And his indignation and righteous anger is that of Lucy, in the Peanuts cartoon.
    Yet he brushes of his excesses (the fake, photoshopped image and vilification of Clegg) as: "I didn't do it" - verbatim Bart Simpson.

    The Beer-fest will be a failure . . .

 

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