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Wednesday 13 July 2011

ADMIN USE ONLY | 11:34 UK time, Wednesday, 13 July 2011

Jeremy Paxman will be joined tonight by a live studio audience, all of whom describe themselves as 'undecided voters'.

He'll be asking them their views on the business of phone-hacking and how they think the party leaders have been dealing with recent revelations.

Don't miss it!


  • Comment number 1.


    Westminster is self serving - we are of no account. Phone hacking furore is just a diversionary tactic. Keith Vaz chairs an enquiry on proper conduct? Hello!

    Another NewsyNighty jolly of no useful purpose.

  • Comment number 2.

    Although I think the NI story is VERY important, there is nothing new today, and the bigger picture in the world is more important.

    This is sometimes a bit of a flaw in the beeb: to chew one big story to death at the expense of everything else.

    Like THIS for example:

    (Or course the amount of tax paid, or not by companies like NI is a factor in the above.)

    And what about THIS (below)? Is it posturing, or is it a credible strategy?

    etc etc etc

  • Comment number 3.


    Nick is in Buddha mode again (except Buddha didn't blush). Something (a lot of things?) is troubling Nick.

    The blushing occurred as Dave was obfuscating the 'you were warned about Coulson' issue. Maybe Nick DIDN'T QUITE DO any warning? Scared?

    Dave is getting to the bottom of press, police and politician's interaction. He will go after corrupt police and press barons - meanwhile corrupt Westminster will be seen to be above it all.

    For the avoidance of doubt: Dave is our PM; he connived at vilification of Nick in the NO campaign, he had a substantially altered self-image put on posters, costing half-a-mil, and his party produced a False Instrument, used in the 2010 election to gain votes for Conservative candidates - 9 are sitting to my knowledge.

    I suggest this is rank corruption - POLITICAL CORRUPTION. Corrupt police and media are just TRICKLE DOWN. There is no 'OFPOL' and no Westminster Ombudsman. Will there be either when Honest Dave is through?


  • Comment number 4.

    From yesterday's blog thread barrie wrote today:


    Did no one here follow your links Bro? Have they ALL come to love Big Brother?!"

    I followed it and found it quite disconcerting. Farrell seems to be a very normal, honest, educated kind of bloke.

    bro's link lead me on to watch this link

    7/7 the big picture

    This story would blow the NOTW police bribery scandal look like simple malfeasance.

    As in saha's last but one's all linked.

  • Comment number 5.

    :p Probably the best advert for voting UKIP!
    But seriously, look forward to tonight's big debate :o)

  • Comment number 6.

    "...... all of whom describe themselves as 'undecided voters'." The careful language mirrors the doubt which viewers may feel.

    I'm undecided as to who I'll vote FOR (if anyone), but I know who I WON'T vote for. I could masquerade as neutral to get on your panel, but it wouldn't be honest. How are these people found and selected?

  • Comment number 7.

    'all of whom describe themselves as 'undecided voters'.'

    Intrigued. Was.. is there a form? Like the one used for QT audiences, where best not to allude to an aversion to nepotism in monopolistic corporations?

    Or how you can go from 'invited to all the 'right' parties' to 'just some yummy mummy who cares' in the snip of an edit.

    Meanwhile, what might 'the panel' make of this...

    'Labour are demanding that this rule be made retrospective – but only back to the last general election. What about the thirteen years before that? Are we to learn nothing of Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson’s meetings with the Murdoch empire?'

    On current 'performance', possibly... not so much.

    Speaking of voting against or simply withdrawing support via custom, it can feel enabling. Unless that's an option denied.

  • Comment number 8.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 9.

    How come Newsnight's thread wasn't/isn't treated to the vast red banner screaming the demise of the BSKY bid that ended up across the blog network no matter what topic... yet seems now to have vanished.

    Messed up any posting attempts too.

    Very curious.

  • Comment number 10.

    PMQ's excellent. the debate afterwards excellent, I have new respect for our country and it's traditions after the trashing of the whole Murdoch brand, we were so weak but now we have found our .....

  • Comment number 11.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 12.

    these are notes from monday, much has become obvious since. (just 2 days!!!! :O )


    OFFCOM!!!! ***NOT**** "monopolies commission". *That* is why they have pulled the offer to "hands-off Sky News"!!

    offcom to check the "fit and proper" ownership of the current BSkyB shares. It is disgraceful the Govt could allow this deal to hang around, - unless they WANT him to own the rest of the company, the most important media platform in the UK?

    (they do, it became clear last night)

    the police are worried about the use of blackmail by murdoch's empire.

    there are many movies where the mafia threaten witnesses. Makes you think, doesn't it?

    southern cross: the Govt should blanket-renegotiate the contract with the SC/landowners, it is unconscionable that this Govt can STILL be moving ahead with "bringing private providers in social services", when it is becoming abundantly clear that even many CURRENT privatised services are been run corruptly, for the benefit of share-holders and not the Public they are meant to serve. Now it is possible the tax-payer will have to pick up the multi-£m tab for these care-homes, eventually, but it goes without saying the incredible profits will remain with those who stole them.


    Norway, they need investment, to create jobs. You have an investment fund that needs a new direction (what with the shares/financial system going 'pop'), could there be a match-up? Form locally-owned cooperative structures, and transfer as much tech as needed? Such an investment would completely complement Norway's own Geo-Thermal sustainable energy production, as well. Plus the long-distance transmission lines will also benefit Norway itself in the long-run.

    world cup: that interviewed Qatari [bleep] knows full well that they intend to use the image of drunk rowdy Westerners, to shock their people at 'our' behaviour. This was a catastrophic decision, fed by overt corruption. The amusing thing is how it is all unravelling, it will be even more amusing if it rebounds on the Quatari elite, and the event becomes the rallying cry for freedom amongst the Qatari public. Even though they WILL find Western Football Fan behaviour incomprehensible.

    funny watching a clever liar from another country when you can see through it isn't it?? ;) It'll get even more amusing when he has to start defending the clear incompatibility of the forces he is trying to bring together - for his own ends.

    if it DOES kick off (pun wasn't intended) in Qatar, i fully expect to see a repeat of Saddam's Tariq Aziz/Assad's "assurances" all events in Syria are caused by "foreign instigators"/camoron blaming student/union activism rather than the Qatari elite's own failed policies.

    BSkyB again:

    coulson's employe, cameron, has possibly help murdoch kick the bid into the log grass!

    unfortunately for Murdoch, the ability for pubs to watch streaming football from the Net (judges found that legal, recently), instead of paying from Sky, will cause the share-price to do something as well. It is somewhat clear that NewsCorp is NOT a "fit and proper" broadcaster", and it cannot be overstated how much better the behaviour of the BBC. The shares in Sky owned by NewsCorp should be removed by Ofcom (BECAUSE murdoch might very well remain in his post after all, or his son), by the regulator, and then the Govt should step in and purchase the shares when it is low, and give them to the BBC.

    the BBC would benefit greatly from having an ISP platform, and could even start to reduce its need upon the Licence-fee. A far better purchase by the UK Govt than the Bank-Shares Bail-Out.

    News-Int is part of fox - the right-wing media group that runs Fauxnews, the pro-war "news" service. Still a group you want running the UKs strategic inofrmation highway? Btw, every email you sent via Sky broadband is potentially being tapped and read. Or do you think News-KKKorp and Murdoch care about your rights to privacy? Its time and past to get rid of them entirely. Shame we have News-KKKorp employees working in Downing St, and no, i'm not talking about Coulson.

    excellent report by Peston! Again!! ;-D

    Ai Weiwei: China, if you imprison those who criticise you, you will end up creating the very revolution you fear. And "counter-revolutionary" simply doesn't wash anymore, stop behaving like an infant. Start treating your People as the adults you want them to be. Free, Liberated, Questioning, Self-Motivated. It is not questioning and critical citizens you should be careful of, it is those driven by money who strip and exploit the rights of others, and ultimately corrupt a society from within. Whilst there are now many such in the ranks of the CCP, hopefully you are not *entirely* corrupted.

    let your artists go, in every way you only harm yourselves by imprisoning them. And that will eventually harm China itself.

  • Comment number 13.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 14.

    #11 part 2:

    MPs: this constant "calling for people to go" whenever something happens is getting very tedious, and smacks of infantile scapegoating. Please stop it. That goes for the media too.

    the energy-price-hike: why is it happening? Because for decades the UKs energy has been sold off, and the kkkorporate owners simply wanted it as a cash-cow, driving down employment, investment and wages (for non-execs), raising profits year on year, and completely ignoring the necessary investments for the future. Now the bill is here to be paid, because the UK NEEDS new investment, and what are they doing? Hiking charges, most of which will STILL go towards increasing their personal profits, with a small amount towards investment. Again, any Govt worth its salt would already be looking at "fit and proper" ownership, when the owners have and are behaving so completely irresponsibly.

    it is doubly tragic they are trying to blame the whole mess (caused entirely by their greed), upon global warming, and sustainable energy production. All this could have been done 20 years ago, as Germany, Denmark, Norway (amongst others) already did. But no. Steal all the money, wait as long as possible, then make the State/tax-payer pay the necessary costs. Remind you of the banks, at all?

    it would be very interesting to have a report detailing the history of these energy firms, how much they paid, how much they have taken in profits, how much they have invested, how many jobs they cut, and just which politicians have also benefited from this, and their hands in the privatisation scandals in the 80s.

  • Comment number 15.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 16.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 17.

    '...then the Govt should step in and purchase the shares when it is low, and give them to the BBC.... the BBC would benefit greatly from having an ISP platform'

    I was unclear, until now, that this was all about benefitting the BBC.

    I had been thrown off by the affront to anguished relatives and media plurality things.

    All I know is that, I am a smidge offside that this is being spun as 'the public has spoken'.

    NI can rot for all I care, but as no one asked me I must be old-fashioned in wondering what voting was for, as twitter mob rule by a few now settles policy.

    One down. Now my sights, at least, are on other media monopolies that presume to tell me what I think and need. Plus those in their ideological pockets, seeking access to 'the public' and nicely edited protections en route lest they too be seen to stray.

    Only fair.

  • Comment number 18.


    The smell is from Westminster Junkk.

    Nuff sed.

  • Comment number 19.


    Here is Dave's preamble to the 2010 Code:

    "We must be different in how we think and how we behave. We must be different from what has gone before us. Careful with public money. Transparent about what we do and how we do it. Determined to act in the national interest, above improper
    influence. Mindful of our duty. Above all, grateful for our chance to change our

    Did you spot them? Might Dave be inclined to a bit of blagging himself? Very PR!


  • Comment number 20.

    hmmm, i have been completely prevented from posting further on the BSkyB "deal", perhaps something to do with the far too accurate portrayal of the Condem(ed) interests in the matter. Its on my Gawaher blog, but i can't even post that link!

    #17 JM: this is about survival of a decent media. At the mo, the BBC is fairly decent, albeit with very clear political interference from this Govt, via Chris Patten. Possibly...: see above!

    where else should those shares in BSkyB go? Russia Today? Any other just-as-bad KKKorporation? So much for "media-plurality", so much for "the rights to privacy".

    think ahead!

    this Govt has a hard-on for privatising to the KKKorps anything it can get its hands on, a decent Govt would be concerned with the quality of the media broadcast to the Public.

    BSkyB is set to be the largest single player in the future of the UKs media, whatever the faults of the Beeb (and they ARE legion), surely some part of that should be held by a PUBLIC broadcaster? I'm not talking complete control, but i would be far happier with the BBC in there promoting "Net Neutrality" (all sources have equal weight, and ISPs cannot control which sites you access from), instead of KKKorporate profits.

    shame so many of our MPs do not seem motivated to care about the future quality of British media, and are so willing to allow KKKorporations to control it. One might have hoped the current scandals rocking the media world, the current idiocies and corruption of the Energy/Banking/Private Healthcare - and the rest - have not yet woken them up to the truth: KKKorporates are BAD BUSINESS, and the UK would be far better off with less of them.

    plus, such a move would enable the "licence fee" (or "tax", as the Mail prefers to call it... ooh, the Mail. Apparently *they've* been quiet about the 'hacking scandal', i wonder why?), to be reduced as a method of paying for the BBC. Instead of a Sky subscription AND the licence fee, both could be combined... just thinking ahead, you see.

    unfortunately, *AGAIN*, i'm not in Govt, and the current lot want their retirement bonuses from the big media groups, or at the very least do not trust the BBC to promote their wars and "cuts" with the necessary amount of spin to persuade the Public. And the politicians, despite such individuals as Norman Fowler (apparently), have not the back-bone to stand up and demand something be done - or more accurately, stand up and INFORM the PM what should be done.

    if BSkyB and the Murdoch tabloids survive, then the future is a lot darker, that is all i can say. And the blame for that will lie squarely with the current politicians.

  • Comment number 21.


    About the only truth Dave told (to dilute his culpability) was that a series of PMs cosied-up to media. That is to say: WE KEEP GETTING OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

    While Westminster retains ANY power, the black slime of its corruption will soak up light like Hotblack Desiato's spaceship. All other blacks will appear grey by comparison.


  • Comment number 22.


    Typical Brown to re-appear, courageously, in presence of a weakened Cameron. And his triumphant message was to 'remind' us that Dave (in opposition) and Rupert, not only sang from the same hymn sheet but in perfect time and harmony - so close was their collusion.

    He didn't spot the irony that both he and Dave are NOW singing that little heard hymn: "Murdoch he shall go down, go down".

  • Comment number 23.

    Perhaps just what the Fish Fight eco-fascist sponsors planned all along, lots of empty fisher-men's cottages vacant for their wealthy mates to move into on the cheap.

  • Comment number 24.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 25.


    I had the pleasure of asking him, to his face, during the 2010 hustings: "When you go down the high-street soliciting votes, you inviting them to vote for you or your rosette?" He made no reply.

    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 26.

    #24 Mork

    Before you go on about kkkororates according to Ch4 News its probably going to hit the one man bands harder than the big long distance boats. Witteringstall was on blagging his way out of the conclusions, saying it should be administered locally, but that will cost far too much so no chance in reality. The eco-fascists have screwed the coastal fishing industry buy planting wind farms everywhere, most probably in the best fishing grounds as well. Its all a very clever Corporate Ethnic Cleansing plan, like most alleged green policy, increase the financial apartheid between rich and poor.

  • Comment number 27.

    Is this the best Newsnight can do....a political peeing contest??.....there are some big stories out there apart from Murdoch, which I am heartily stall of, but we waste Jeremys talents on a talk-in......wont be watching

  • Comment number 28.


    Obviously tonight's Newsnight will be a carefully scripted and controlled government propaganda exercise, probably worth watching for the laugh anyway !

  • Comment number 29.


    Hear, hear!

    I realise that the Fiat's Fire blogsite is really just a gold bug pushing website, but they do seem to have a good knack of capturing the main headlines from the world's news...

  • Comment number 30.

    Mindy & JunkkMale:

    Maybe these will remove the blinkers, regarding the BBC:

    For those of you who believe your thinking is performed by Sky News, The Sun, The Times & Sun. Times - those news outlets that you choose to pay for - as opposed to the BBC, where choosing can land you in jail, have a read of where the power and bias really lies:
    [Includes how the BBC and the Gruaniad are trying to mastermind the attack on Murdoch.]

    Is the fog beginning to clear?

  • Comment number 31.

    To be fair, it's nice that Newsnight feels obliged to share what No.10's private polling has presumably revealed - assuming the audience is balanced and not selected via a Leftie gathering point - although an impartial observer might think there was an election in the offing.

    When the election does come, though, the immense ammunition against Labour will be fully deployed.

  • Comment number 32.

    Some good posts lately.

    I noted Sasha's quote re Murdoch and Denis Potter. I mentioned this a while ago under a different pseudonymn.

    What was Potter's political persuassion?

    Why was he so right about Murdoch? This is a serious question.

    I would love to know what JJ-Five names opions on all this was....but said poster was hounded by many on here...without any justification what-so-ever.

    Jeremy is as imperious as ever tonight...why might that be?

    Maybe, Ed really does have chutzpah.

    I wonder what Finklestein really thinks?

  • Comment number 33.

    i have read ni newspapers and will never do so again, they were for amusement like comical value and had little or no idea that they could stoop so low as they have, to hear so clearly how they obtained their info and to understand the impact it has had on peoples lives is shocking, NOTW,THE SUN and any other paper associated with ni should be abandoned by every buyer sponser or association connected with it and MURDOCH,POLICE, and GOVERMENT should be brought to account why this has been allowed to carry on for so long

  • Comment number 34.


    Mensch has nice legs on display...wouldn't want to meet her down a dark alley though!

  • Comment number 35.

  • Comment number 36.

    "a live studio audience". Heart sinks. Please let's hear the professionals - more Finkelstiens etc. Thanks

  • Comment number 37.

    :o) "You're irrelevant" Jeremy to Simon Hughes....
    Was I impressed by any of the 3 main party leaders? No :p
    Am I surprised by any of the revelations? No :p
    Am I surprised that MPs (eg Louise Mensch) was threatend by a newspaper? No :p
    Great to see Danny Finkelstein on too!
    I was amazed to see that anyone admitted to buying The News Of The World on Newsnight......maybe she said it for a bet ;o)

  • Comment number 38.

    Newsnight’s studio audience were a bunch of lemmings wasting space, wasting time. If we want to hear what Joe Public think we go to the pub or corner shop, not watch Newsnight. No more studio audiences, please.

  • Comment number 39.

    Poor edition tonight. Couldn't you have found a studio audience with some interest in the issues and/or an inclination to debate?

  • Comment number 40.

    Jeremy embarrassed and desperately trying to elicit an interesting question from the clueless audience. Could this be his 'Simon Dee moment'. Would miss him if he were sacked.

  • Comment number 41.


    Paxman asked some poor woman a question, and before she had completed the first sentence - he interrupted. No change.

    Hammond said nothing - at great length. No change.

    In passing: Finkelstein thinks Dave's problem will be the economy, or a perception that he is on the side of the rich. I guarantee DAVE'S INTRACTABLE PROBLEM WILL EMERGE AS ARROGANCE, ARROGANCE, ARROGANCE.

    We have got ourselves another one.

  • Comment number 42.

    Don't mention the Climate Scam and green taxes or foreign aid, I am informed that the Tory grass roots are in almost full revolt over the above.

  • Comment number 43.

    Yes, it was a disastrous programme because you somehow found the only 27 people in the county without an opinion on the hacking scandal. But what is worse than the outcome of you producing a mediocre edition, is the opportunity it gave the guy from The Times to claim the scandal is not an important landmark event for the British public. What utter nonsense. He should haver been challenged when he had the nerve to say it doesn't matter which political party a paper such as The Sun endorses at an election. Editorial endorsement is proven in market research that I have seen first hand to be far more powerful in influencing readers than paid advertising. By the way, that young Conservative MP will be party leader one day.

  • Comment number 44.

    The Tory certainly writes popular soft porn novels. Look them up on Amazon. She's at least learned something from The Sun about what the voters want.

  • Comment number 45.


    A Disaster!

    That’s about the best (Doh!) that can be said about tonight’s show!

    The floor manager sedated - presumably - the ‘live’ sic audience! Other than that it must be that the ‘live’ bods were in total awe of Sir J !!!!!

    The tory is living in a world of her own .... or just wants to keep her career path open! (Even has 30+ pages of crib notes !!!!!!! ) And manages to throw in parts of the usual party political broadcast script!

    ‘Big D’ ( It’s no longer a trade mark.) barely earnt his appearance fee, whilst still following the party line of course!

    The stats bod appeared to have some interesting things to say but .....

    Only ‘Simon says...’ - as almost always - tried to get some sense into the ‘debate’ sic (And his party will never ever get my vote, then, now or ever! So no bias on my part here!)

    The Labour participant ..... Pointless!

    The only good part of the show was the camera catching the Tory's - facial - hysterics as a response to the stats expert pro Elect-Ed comments. ( Almost as enjoyable as the ‘Sue Lawley stroke Dustin Hoffman ‘show’ ! But then that can never, ever be equalled! )

    If you wanted a lively debate why not ‘invite’ some of your regular posters? But, No, you never even refer to your site on the programme! Too many reasoned thinkers perhaps? What do the public know? Of course,they live outside the W-illage!

    It’s the BBC !!!!! .... Not the ‘W-illage Broadcasting Corporation !!!!!!!

    Getting people to ‘open up’ is not as difficult as you try to make out, really ..... it’s not! Yet you are seriously getting it wrong! Why? It’s really - no, I do mean ‘really’ - not that difficult!

    I have often asked that you - Nn - “Lead! Don’t follow!” ......

    But if tonight’s programme is Nn ‘leading’, then pretty soon you won’t have anyone following!

    Sincerely yours


    PS One final point to make - assuming it doesn’t go over the heads of those ‘up there -

    i.e. .....


  • Comment number 46.

    It was indeed a poor edition of the programme - a disjointed and uncomfortable discussion of an important topic. The gap between the 'Westminster village' and the public is evidently immense.
    Yet, what a strange bunch of people the audience were. Where on earth did they get them from? It was rather like trying to get students to speak in a seminar when they have't read the text.

  • Comment number 47.

    I disagree with message 38 ref the audience on Newsnight - 13 July 2010 - as the silence and reluntance to answer on this hacking scam for me proved how pigged off the public are on continued Hacking reports as everything else has either taken a back seat or forgot about altogether when it's the news we rely on for information about the economy, jobs, inflation, benefit payments, health, education, security, Libya, Northern Ireland, Greece and the Euro chaos, problems further affield we should know - do I need to go on. All this has been largely ignored that for me is surprising for Newsnight and Question Time giving just 5 minutes to why British company Bombardier lost the government's train contract to a company in Germany? The other 55 minutes - yes Hacking?
    I hope you will listen and call time on this.

  • Comment number 48.


    At PMQs it is now normal for Clegg to sit IMPASSIVE. He is a metaphorical hoarding, as large as the ones that had Dave's faux-face on in the 2010 election, saying: "No connection with the business next door." Nick, and his advisers, KNOW, he is under TV surveillance, YET HE SITS IMPASSIVE while Dave goes passionately nuclear on the illusion du jour.

    Ergo: NICK IS SIGNALLING TO THE NATION. "Help! I am a prisoner in a Coalition."

    And in the midst of this bizarre scene, James (he that is called Gordon) Brown, denier - denier, son-of-Manse on fire, was busy inventing 'Old Labour - New Reality'.
    Apparently he took on Murdoch in single combat and won, while ending Boom and Bust with the other hand. But I digress.

    Nick has divorced himself from Dave - the body language does not lie. 4 more years? I think not.

    (Someone mentioned ELECTION PREPARATION above I think?)

  • Comment number 49.

    The sign-out to 45 above got ‘lost in translation. I was supposed to read ......

    Sincerely yours

    B. Yonbleef.

    ( Sorry! These ‘auto-list’ functions in WP progs are a pain in the ‘redacted’ )

  • Comment number 50.

    harriet harmen was correct: people have lost faith with big institutions. Here's a terrible thought: perhaps that was what was intended by some of those who thought up the original policies!!

    the solution is a clean-up, it might have pained you at the time, but it is because MPs went through already that people even trust them slightly on the Press and Police. I'm more referring to backbenchers, normal MPs, rather than the ministerial rank, and of both main parties. I think people generally trusted the Lib-Dems more on these matters anyway, disregarding recent leaders.

    simon hughes: now(!) we hear about the nobbling against those who wanted an Inquiry in 2003!!

    Neither labour nor tories put the Judicial inquiry in place when they have been in power, it is only now the Public are partly in power that they have been forced to do so. But the Public could only put on the pressure when they knew about what was happening!

    THIS is the tremendous power of the Press, right there! In liberal theory, it is the communication to the Public what is happening, so they can make informed decisions come Polling time. When that information is deliberately distorted, it prevents this flow of accurate information. Even worse, when there is a threat to blackmail individual policy-makers due to information gathered secretly, or illegally by the press, policies can be changed or made without even the vaguest knowledge of the Public, in favour of those *or their desired policies) who own the media platforms! The Press, and free-flow of information, are ***VITAL*** in a Democracy. If the Press are owned by a few "media-barons", then information is easily buried or even distorted, just as if it was the State owning all the Press.

    a thought: if we'd had a decent Press, then the Internet would not have taken off as a source of information. It was the KKKorporate blockage (just as if it was State monopoly) *ITSELF* causing evolution/honest reporting to flow around them. Nature/God/GAIA is like that, huh? ;D

    so, the press: it will be vastly harder to prevent/discuss the "cuts" program if the press can use potentially illegally-gained blackmail, - and how can there possibly be a quality debate when the press and news are being deliberately used to undermine honest, decent discussion about the issues? Remember how the "AV" Campaign was fought, the dirty tricks? This is how, with the collusion of certain elements of the Press, issues the Public deserve a good discussion on are turned into slig-fodder by members of the Tabloid Elite.

    lovely tory woman, again agreed with her on a lot (*will* remember her name sometime! ;) ) but she forgets that it is extremely difficult to have a good debate about cuts, Europe and the economy, and have the tabloids/Press joining in in an adult manner. So yes, those issues are important, but the platform upon which those discussions are held is also important. So this issue of phone-hacking, potential blackmail and Press-pressure, and even the Police involvement at the highest levels, are all ALSO important to the Public.

    i think People are realising that accurate information about the World and what is actually happening, is very important. I don't think the People will have forgotten this next week, because every BS, histrionic scare-story to take their minds off what *is* important will remind them of it.

    amelia, i am sorry. I ave no right to bring you back into my life, you had already made reality clear between us. I am desperate, my apologies. I pray your life goes well for you, I have absolutely no knowledge of what your life is bringing you. I hope there is Peace between us!

    love and peace, ♥

  • Comment number 51.

  • Comment number 52.

  • Comment number 53.

  • Comment number 54.


    Hey Barrie, don't you know that wonderful art work must have been inspired by Mondrian. ; )

    Pity the programme didn't live up to the view

  • Comment number 55.

    funny thing is, most of the people i meet and talk to are absolutely amazing and wonderful people. They don't hate foreigners, they try to do good by their kids, spouses and families, they are honest, they care about the future and those less well-off than themselves, they care about the environment, they are generally really good people. This is also true of the majority of the Questiontime Audience, and becoming more so as time passes, it seems.

    this same basic Humanity i have observed on three Continents, Europe, Asia and Africa, i have witnessed, with small differences, the same basic drives for a good life, for freedom, and for genuine responsibilities, for their Human Rights to be recognised and accepted by the rich and powerful, or the surrounding general Society.

    we are, most of us, basically good.

    doesn't that give you heart?? It always has for me. Most 'badness' is caused by bad ideas, not by bad intentions. But not all, unfortunately.

    peas. & lurve.

  • Comment number 56.

    transition town handbook, mentioned above, for those not blessed with pockets of Western money:

  • Comment number 57.

    are you people ↑ for real? o.O

  • Comment number 58.

    Can anyone from BBC News explain why the red button and website cannot be used more for stories such as hacking that would then allow television to cover other issues. Why does the BBC feel it has to be the same as Sky.

  • Comment number 59.

    That was a poor one newnight ..init. Oh well, can't be great all the time.
    And the backdrop was a killer on the eyes. Somebody needs to speak up on stuff like this. backbone anyone? if in doubt, go ask the fella with the mop bucket.

    Meanwhile Barry -the Marxist pan-Leninist - Obuma is getting more powers.

  • Comment number 60.

    50 mindy wrote:
    "harriet harmen was correct"

    Well if she was, it' would've been a first.

    I was out working tonight..about an hour or so. I didn't pick up much thirst for the phone hack scandel. I did a skit on rising car insurance and they soon woke up to that though.

  • Comment number 61.

    Judging by the speed at which Labour politicians have turned against the Murdoch papers since the onset of this hacking saga, it is obvious that it wasn’t respect or admiration, but pure fear that drove New Labour to cosy up to News International and Rupert Murdoch. Both Simon Hughes and the conservative MP Louise Mensch have said last night that they had been subject to blackmailing by journalists at tabloid newspapers. Is it me or does the whole tabloid news industry look increasingly like a mob class? Murder victims, soldier’s widows, and infant babies’ medical records, I am sorry but these hacking revelations are making Sir Fred Goodwin and MPs in the expense scandal look like saints!

    I was very impressed by Louise Mensch last night; the sheer confidence, integrity and frankness she exuded was a breath of fresh air. On the other hand, the studio audience was a big disappointment. It makes you wonder how the producers selected the focus group; surely it has to be someone who has views about the story of the day (the NN blog alone has a vast supply of nerdy nutters who would fit this category), instead, many people didn’t seem to care one way or the other or simply camera shy.

  • Comment number 62.


    Ah yes! But what was he there for? I predict that, if ever we can SPOILPARTYGAMES, it will become obvious that the UNDERLYING PROBLEM has always been ADVERSARIAL politics. Machiavellian Murdoch, watching the competition, saw an opening and appointed himself UMPIRE. It is the nihilistic nature of Westminster politics, that makes such an opportunity for such a man.

    Nuff sed.

  • Comment number 63.


    Mork: clear your head and remember that while relaxed, mature, competent adults are cooperative - by and large - the message of (all) the 'Balkans' + Zimbardo + Milgram' is that the Ape is just below the veneer of humanity. We are in the End Days.


    There once was a land full of two-ended folk
    their construction both basic and charming;
    the artist, philosopher, poet and don,
    juxtaposed lusty apes, good at farming.

    Now you might think that this crazy scheme could not work
    but if you haven't tried it don't knock it
    for half way along, evolution had placed
    a wonderfully formed plug and socket.

    Each end had such organs and limbs as required
    to attend to the stuff they would do;
    at night they enjoyed a Platonic embrace
    but when morning arrived - came in two.

    I know not how long that their bliss was complete
    but at last they ran clean out of luck
    God's will or black magic or just heavy dew:
    all the plugs and the sockets got stuck.

    The high-minded end, thus far free from all taint
    found out about sex and soil tilth;
    before very long it was down in the dirt
    quite diverted by cerebral filth.

    The two ends conspired to invent GM crops
    pornography, gambling and debt.
    The join healed up, extra limbs disappeared
    but I'm told they are holding on yet.

    With narcotics and genocide, WMD
    underhand psychological vending
    gender roles all confused, procreation awry
    hell-bent on inglorious ending.

  • Comment number 64.


    Hi Liz. But I will defend to the death . . .

    For colour and form, I go to the new Greenhouse at Wisley, and almost believe in a Creator God, while looking at the flowers.

    (I was always rubbish at art.)

  • Comment number 65.


    I'm watching him Kev.

    St Tony was itching to take special powers during his reign. I always felt the 'tanks on the lawn' at Heathrow, was a timid, toe in that water.

    But there's the answer - Tony WAS timid. He didn't mount a coup. But DAVE IS ARROGANT, ARROGANT ARROGANT. He is blind, deaf and dumb in his arrogance; witness the prettified poster, the vilification of Clegg and the illegal Liar Flyer, plus recent behaviour generally.


  • Comment number 66.

    Re adversarial politics. It is often said that Belgium does not have a government. This is not strictly true. It is a divided society with only an interim government. But the "enemies" are cooperating to keep the ship afloat. Are they doing worse than we are?,1518,773746,00.html

  • Comment number 67.

    '43. At 23:40 13th Jul 2011, KW1957 wrote:
    somehow found the only 27 people in the county without an opinion on the hacking scandal. '

    46. At 23:53 13th Jul 2011, Janio:
    Where on earth did they get them from?

    QT rejects? It's what some might deem 'balance'.

    '58. At 01:52 14th Jul 2011, research49:
    Why does the BBC feel it has to be the same as Sky?'

    I rather thought those that speak for the public is thinking felt it better t'other way round.

  • Comment number 68.

    Is America about to default?

    US debt ceiling talks deadlocked as Moody's warns on AAA rating

    I liked this line…

    "Officials have warned that, as things stand, America will run out of money to pay its bills on 2 August. Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke said on Wednesday that without agreement, the US would continue to service its debts and stop benefits like Social Security payments instead."

    Nice one from Ben the Bernank.

    Obama reverted to spoilt child mode. He pushed the table and left the meeting in a huff.

    I'm sure I would be reprimanded if I acted that way at work. I wonder what a psychiatrist would make of such behaviour?

  • Comment number 69.

    Who is "ADMIN USE ONLY" - a curious name to appear as the originator of a story.

    What or who is 'ADMIN USE' an odd pair of given names and even though I have looked in the phone book I am unable to find any families called "ONLY".

    A mysterious anonymous poster then!

  • Comment number 70.


    some are losing money on the failed takeover

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

    now they want their money back?

    so where's the acceptance of risk?

  • Comment number 71.

    excellent links from sasha, #2.

    tax-avoidance IS sinking UKLtd, but our kkkorporate press avoids the story. Surprise, Surprise.

    and yes, i fully expect Japan to go massively for renewables, for two reasons: it has little military to fight over the remaining oil reserves, and nuclear power is little more than waiting for utter catastrophe. The Japanese, like the Chinese, are aware that since GWB came to power, the post-war Pax-Americana was coming to an end - and that every Nuclear-plant is a nuclear-bomb waiting for a missile from an enemy.

    do you think our 'Leaders' are such good people they wouldn't do such a thing?

    the Japanese are not so simple-minded, or naive. Its green all the way now, and if they have any sense, by aiming for self-sufficiency, they can stay out of the conflicts that might come, because Western leaders and media are completely gearing up for a Holocaust.

    the human race, and the planet, went through hell from 1936-1947, a hell that was completely avoidable, and benefited only the powerful families.

    it is still avoidable now, but those who desire the struggle and chaos are fighting full-tilt. If ONLY we'd had a decent Press and media, the last 10 years would have been dramatically different.

    we didn't, but we might have in the future.

  • Comment number 72.

    thank you to NN posts, I was just going to watch NN on iPlayer as I fell asleep so you have saved me the trouble because the studio audience were not up to it. This is not the first time as I cannot remember a single time when the 'studio audience' thingy ever worked so please, Editor no more as they all freeze and Jeremy seems to hate them all and from last night's debacle he's not a bad judge.....

  • Comment number 73.

    mortgage banksters/house price increases: i think this needs explaining to people.

    there has been a scam.

    first of all, let's say a house is 'worth' £100,000, and mortgages are 100%, to make it simpler.

    the buyer gets a mortgage for £100,000, repays say £10,000 a year.

    there is an increase in the 'value' of the house next year, to £110,000. Looks good, because you have "made" £10,000. BUT - all other houses are also increasing in "worth", so when you go to sell and buy a new house, you actually haven't really gained at all. Think about it.

    but what HAS changed? Well, when you sell your house for £110,000, the next owner is now paying an extra 10%, because *their* mortgage is now to cover the "increase in worth".

    look back to the last housing bubble, caused entirely by corrupt regulators and mortgage-banksters, housing increased something like 300%.

    so, what did that mean? It meant that those without capital/ridiculous incomes could not afford to buy, but more importantly, it meant that mortgages - FOR THE VERY SAME PROPERTY - had increased by 3 times, the home-owner was paying for the privilege of living in the house, to the mortgage holders, 3 times or over what they were paying before the bubble.

    this is equivalent to rent jumping 300% in the same period, with the banksters as the landlords.

    the main group that benefit from property speculation, and house-price increases/bubbles, are the bankers who lend the money to buy the properties.

    everyone else pays through the nose.

    remember that next time you hear a "representative from the mortgage industry" telling you that house-price rises are good for the economy. Only when they are healthy, based upon earnings rises, is that true. Otherwise, it is simply an increase in those taxes to the wealthy we call "rent", or "mortgages".

    wonder why the (bad) politicians hate education? Because it is far harder to draw the wool over the eyes of an well-educated population.


    btw museV, if you miss JJ so much, why not just start using that moniker again? Everyone here either is already aware its you (and that goes for the NN mods as well, trust me), and those that don't have no idea who "jj" is anyway, because its too long ago. Now that Monika left the blog, frankly no-one gives a [bleep], - and i've only read a few of your posts under that name anyway. So bring it back, if you think it would make any difference.

  • Comment number 74.

    #68 LINK PHOTO

    Is Obama doing one of those NWO secret hand signals?

  • Comment number 75.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 76.

    '73. At 17:40 14th Jul 2011, Mindys_Housemate -
    (and that goes for the NN mods as well, trust me)'

    Purely on a 'is this a private club, or can anyone join?' basis, how does that work, he asks, trustingly?

  • Comment number 77.

    watching newsnight with an invited audience of un-decided voters on wed 13th july .i have to question how/why those invitees bothered to turn up atall. On such a provocative current issue i sat watching in dis-belief as the audience didnt seem to grasp the concept of participation and those that did bother didnt have much to contribute to the discussion.
    Poor Paxman even he seemed somewhat embarrassed by the lack of response.
    Please BBC chose your Focus groups more carefully to ensure they are willing to actually participate fully and not sit in silence just to see themselves on tv

  • Comment number 78.

    'Please BBC chose your Focus groups more carefully'

    This, one presumes, is another area of BBC activity covered by FOI exclusions. Maybe Rupes could go that route too?

    Mind you, on Newswatch I just heard the Chair of the BBC claim he didn't know what the folk we fund are paid, so it just gets ever more 'unique'.

    Get Prezza and Campbell back in as our guides, moral and otherwise.

    Oh, and Mr. Maguire too. He's good value. Plus being seemingly immune.


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