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Thursday 21 July 2011

ADMIN USE ONLY | 12:18 UK time, Thursday, 21 July 2011

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy have hammered out a common position on the euro debt crisis ahead of a crunch meeting of eurozone leaders today.

Details of the deal have not yet been released, but there are indications that a new tax on Europe's banks to help fund any new aid packages may NOT be part of the deal.

Mark Urban is in Brussels for Newsnight - don't miss his report on the Euro Summit in tonight's programme.

More details later.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    EU CRASH-COURSES IN DECK-CHAIR ARRANGEMENT - NOW AVAILABLE

    You can rely on a man who offers his face - and on a woman who (doesn’t laugh) and kisses it, as offered.

    Do we all remember how we got tied to these continental clowns? Each PM stitched us a little tighter and

    WE JUST KEPT ON GETTING OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE!

  • Comment number 2.


    Looks like it's a selective default then.

    Channel 4's Faisal Islam has decribed the situation as follows...

    "Saving the Euro is like a giant game of 'whack-a-mole'. One problem being dealt with (Greece) will just cause as big a problem elsewhere (banks)."

  • Comment number 3.

  • Comment number 4.

    news international is a.....dead parrot

  • Comment number 5.

    Austerity=recession=fall in govt tax+rise in benefits=MORE DEBT, not less, so x work.

    More bailouts=more debt @ +cost=deeper crisis. IMHO the NeoCons who want to use the PIIGS crisis to roll back the state are going to drive the economic system to the wall.

    Euro=++ for De & Fr etc, but -- for PIIGS, so either De Fr etc foot the bill or Euro breaks. For UK, BIG problem - bank bailout MkII, collapse in trade, recession. GO barking to refuse Plan B: DEEP recession will follow: £ crisis looms as no mutual support as in EuroLand - expect the £5 loaf, the £10 petrol litre & 5M unemployed.

    Better restore those cuts in police & army numbers quick!

    And that's BEFORE you consider the effect of a $ crisis if congress doesn't raise the debt ceiling...

    One way or another therfe must be a MASSIVE default on debt to destroy the unsustainable level of return the real economy is being expected to produce - debt was a way to maintain aggregate demand, growth & employment, but we're maxed out now - but austerity will simply slash GDP, cut tax receipts and drive up welfare costs. The root cause of the problem is that too much is being taken out of the real economy in profits and interest payments.

  • Comment number 6.

    Never let a good crisis go to waste :

    a) write off some % of the debts
    b) reschedule some of the debts
    c) cross-subsidise from richer to poorer regions
    d) print money

    All closely followed by ever closer economic, political, social and military {European} union.

  • Comment number 7.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 8.

    Diversity will make us all rich......

    http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/42943

  • Comment number 9.

    #5. accurate, concise, and neat.

    in short, Barry's link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy87kzKxkP8


    balls asked for "leadership" last night to the camera, (presumably not then from his Leader?), however the answers are all already out there - the problem is they are unacceptable to the current 'winners' in our Society (incl EU, US, the 'North', and 'West'.)

    its an interesting time, and to get Biblical, it sees the zombies (the "dead"), were never actually zombies at all - just left out of the information/education spirals.


    ...is the Net an avatar of VALIS??


    all the crises can be resolved by determined Citizen effort, we are not hopeless. It might seem it at times, however. And some like to help the majority feel that way.

    and 'they' redirect emotional energy of the People away from REAL problems and scares, into falsely created ones. See: War on Islam, and the 90s scare-story:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9031532194656768989

    (i note its being tried again, now that the 'War on Islam' has been decoded and trashed?)

    so... Be Afraid of Your Neighbours - any one of them might be a BANKER!!! :o

    they look just like us, but don't be fooled. Underneath that charming manner can lie a psychopath that wants to turn the UK back to the Dark Ages, that will take away your homes and future, and leave your children begging for an education at the windows at private for-profit Academies. Luckily for them, there won't be any libraries either, so they can play in the streets - or clean the chimneys of your BANKER Neighbours!!

    if your neighbour is NOT a Banker, then he may instead be a dreaded POLITICIAN - this group is the most devious of all, and work hand-in-hand with BANKERS. If BANKERS are soulless, then POLITICIANS are soulless narcissists, and should be avoided AT ALL COSTS!!! They will sell your children in actual slavery, whilst taking the last crumb of stale bread out of your mouths, to give it to the BANKERS, apparently purely out of spite, but claiming necessity and high morality whist so doing!

    if you suspect your neighbour is either of these two groups, we would advise you to inform the POLICE - unfortunately...


    ...nevermind.

  • Comment number 10.

    #9: if you're wondering what the hades i meant:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8230254550353635593

    explains a great deal.

    ----------------------

    weds night show:

    max mosley excellent, even the other max mostly very good also! Covered the points needed quite well.


    airship travel, glass bottomed galleries. High speed BB on board. Bullet trains nice, but really top priority?


    how much profit have the private railways taken since the railways were privatised? What could we have built with that amount of money taken??


    -----

    i request that people who read this blog and know me irl would mention it from now on, it would be very much be appreciated, and would also make answers that i give more accurate - as i would understand what level they are asking at. This 'spell', of not telling me anything, has to be broken. Please?

  • Comment number 11.

    The crisis is also dangerous as the eurocrats might well use the problems as a 'sword of damacles' to frighten feeble UK govt and its feeble politicians into agreeing more and more loans and more and more loss of UK sovereignty.

    There is more at stake here for British taxpayers and citizens than just handing over more and more of our money for more for more foreign bail outs and EU waste.

    At some point the UK has to say enough is enough and reclaim UK lost sovereignty and cut loose the EU bureacratic/financil straighjacket that engulfs us and interferes with every aspect of our lives.

  • Comment number 12.

    WE ARE GOING TO NEED MENDERS FOR STUFF WE CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY NEW. (#8)

    That should bring all the young artisan blokes, from 'backward' countries, flooding back.

    Only trouble is, most of the stuff was designed to break, and not be repaired. SO IT WILL COST AN ARM AND A LEG, EVEN AT POLISH RATES!

    In passing: Nick is looking very statesman-like. Does he expect to replace Damaged Dave?

  • Comment number 13.

    Finally no phone hacking nonsense.

  • Comment number 14.

    Yes - let us not mention phone hacking but ... a bigger problem is ... e-mail hacking as many of us are getting our e-mail read and snoopped on?

    ... and an even bigger problem is a a massive hidden industry purchasing private details of all and sundry - possibly from local authorities and mobile phone co's and utility co's and ... internet snoopping for our private details - which explains where a lot of that junk e-mail comes from and yes those mysterious calls/text messages on our mobile phones offering anything from debt consolidation to XXX and that as well + endowment and PPI claims and accident claims etc etc

    Where do these snoops get all our personal data from if not in breach of the DPA?

  • Comment number 15.

    http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/ministerial-codgovernment-unveils-mini/

    Is the Ministerial Code fit for purpose?
    Has it been breached?
    Should it be extended to cover UK commerce and all decision making affecting the public interest in both public and private business as including govt and commerce

    Morals, ethics, national interest, national identity?

    Where does Joe Public stand on all of this - we are being let down again , again and again.

    The Ministerial Code is pathetic (in my, to be completely ignored opinion)

    Is it true that the Ministerial Code is worthless as of no legal effect under EU law despite the millions of pounds spent on its legal fees and MP expenses?

    ????????

  • Comment number 16.

    #14, yes. But not #11. The Banksters would LOVE Europe to descend into warfare again - war is vastly profitable business for bankers. Yes, the EU needs reform, but is there any difference in Quality between UK Parliament/Govt and the European Parliament and Govt?

    sometimes. For example, the EU is pushing legislation to regulate the banking/financial services industry, whereas London is quite happy with the way things are. Nor is this an isolated case. Leaving the EU could *definitely* be an case of 'frying pan into fire'.

    The UK is too small to properly regulate kkkorporates and banksters (and an independent Scotland would be mincemeat for them), the key is ensuring the EU Parliament has the powers to control the EU Executive - the Commission. Already, the EU Parliament has laws about transparency that have worked quite well to ensure low corruption levels, unfortunately the same is not true of the Commission (i think... apparently anyway!).

    there are potentially huge advantages of being part of something much larger (which is why so many former Soviet states are lining up to join) - as long as that body both promotes good governance, and is honest about subsidiarity.

    and the EU is under constant scrutiny by the national anti-EU press in EVERY European country, making it the least corrupt political body IN Europe!!

    reform is better than leaving, and it seems reform might be on the cards soon as well. It'd be better if we were in there, rather than isolated. Imho.


    #14: two words: kkkorporate kkkontrol. Citizens have rights to privacy - consumers apparently not. Which future do you want? And which politicians have already been bought??

  • Comment number 17.

    #15: and WHEN will we get the same for Quangos??

    don't hold your breath on THAT one, it's where the REAL dirt is hidden.


  • Comment number 18.

    MIGHT THE CREDIT REFERENCE AGENCIES BE SELLING OUR DATA?

    CallCredit/Equifax/Experian – from my wrangle with CallCredit, I am in no doubt these three are close to unregulated (you can forget the ICO).

    When challenged, CallCredit behaved like a sack of politicians – need I say more.

  • Comment number 19.

    I WONDER WHEN THE EURO (AS IN PENNY) WILL DROP?

    Will they ever admit that modern nations only attack distant countries with little cultural affinity, who can be slaughtered with ease. There was never any chance of old-style European wars breaking out again.

    So the main pretence for the EU is bogus, and it was never going to work while we are a bunch of juveniles dominated by delusionals.

    Let's rebuild our distinct identities and go back to calling our diseases after foreigners, while nurturing our young to full maturity.

  • Comment number 20.

    16.At 21:00 21st Jul 2011, Mindys_Housemate wrote:
    >
    Alas - Too many things now out of control in the UK - but arguably UK's EU membership makes some of this worse

    I would argue what is needed is to remove the EU straightjacket with major EU reform and apply a new UK Ministerial Code relating to all public and private business and politics in the UK - we can't even do this under existing EU law - its a legal nightmare

    Too many in the UK, in positions of authority just laughing at Joe Public - at standards at ethics, morals & national interest - those running banks Quango's depts large corporates etc

    Its a mess - we don't need an EU straightjacket so that the UK can buy and export goods overseas - that part of the EU bargain is nonsense

  • Comment number 21.

    DAVE TOLD PARLIAMENT 'GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS UNDER THE LAW' (#15)

    Below is his forward to the MINISTERIAL CODE in full. Note where Dave vows his determination that they should be ABOVE IMPROPER INFLUENCE. “NOT MASTERS BUT SERVANTS?” Pull the other one Dave. If governance really WERE under the law, in light of recent revelations, I assert a contract has been broken.

    WE ARE MOCKED.

    The Code:
    "Our new government has a particular and historic responsibility: to rebuild
    confidence in our political system. After the scandals of recent years, people have
    lost faith in politics and politicians. It is our duty to restore their trust. It is not enough simply to make a difference. We must be different.
    We have promised the people a coalition government united behind the key
    principles of freedom, fairness and responsibility. Every day of this government we
    must make good on that promise, acting in a way that reflects these principles.
    In everything we do – the policies we develop and how we implement them, the
    speeches we give, the meetings we hold – we must remember that we are NOT MASTERS BUT SERVANTS. Though the British people have been disappointed in their
    politicians, they still expect the highest standards of conduct. We must not let them
    down.
    We must be different in how we think and how we behave. We must be different from
    what has gone before us. Careful with public money. Transparent about what we do
    and how we do it. Determined to act in the national interest, ABOVE IMPROPER INFLUENCE. Mindful of our duty. Above all, grateful for our chance to change our
    country."

    Signed: David Cameron.

    NewsyNighty should confront Dave with every word of the above. Nuff sed.

  • Comment number 22.

    18.At 21:13 21st Jul 2011, barriesingleton wrote:
    MIGHT THE CREDIT REFERENCE AGENCIES BE SELLING OUR DATA?

    >

    Yes I think that they are - but why do the authorities do nothing at all about it?
    ICO ignored
    Our email is probably more sensitive than our voice mails and a huge amount now sent/received by mobile phones?

  • Comment number 23.

    BUT WHY DO THE AUTHORITIES DO NOTHING ABOUT IT? (#22)

    If government were about US, it would be far more diligent in uncovering the CAUSES of human failure, misery and strife. That is obvious, and much that is germane, is now understood. Perversely, it is manifest that Westminster government IS NOT ABOUT US, and does not employ the sort of people who specialise in optimising the individual. Indeed, why would they do that, when a competent electorate would see off party-politics (the art of self deception, wrapped in the craft of deceiving others 'for their own good') in short order? It does not take a genius to see how all aspects of INDIVIDUAL optimisation (birth, mothering, maturing and acquisition of skills) have been degraded to battery-farm status. This ensures sickness and crime in goodly amounts, that keep the public sector in work and the government in high profile, trumpeted, 'stuff to do'. Bogus Blair even went so far as to pretend he would break the mould, and deal with CAUSES! He really earned the B Liar epithet! WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

    Westminster is a game-playing arena - we are worthless pawns.

    SPOILPARTYGAMES - DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER

  • Comment number 24.

    All smiles, handshakes and back slapping at the end of the eurozone crisis summit.

    How clever they are.

    The solution to Greece's debt crisis (apparently) is to

    a) Lend them more money!

    b) Stop any chance of Greek domestic economic recovery through insisting on massive spending cuts and austerity / tax hikes.

    c) Keep them tied to the relatively strong Euro thus preventing them from being more competitive in exports and tourism further restricting any chance of a greek recovery.

    d) Pretend greece will be able to pay the money back.

    e) Smile look intelligent and positive and hope nobody will notice

    Genius!!!

  • Comment number 25.

    You've not had Alastair Campbell on all week. Well done. You did have Balls on yesterday though:(

    If your gonna chat about the economy -and how to save it -Edwardo Balls ain't the man for any thoughts on the matter, he only knows how to spend money; other peoples money..well he would wouldn't he, him being a socialist and all that eh. When you look at the working life of Ed Balls you discover one thing: he's never really worked. He wrote about economics, advised about economics..then entered politics. Something is missing. He never actually worked, never even operated a lemondae stand..what does he know about running a business?..nothing. When I think about it, I reckon potential applicants for UK elections should have at least had a proper job - lawyers or estate agents would be barred from standing for election for all the obvious reasons). The problem with that is though, there wouldn't be many socialists in Govt (could be a good thing that though)...maybe a couple of doctors and a few hatefilled sisters would take up the Labour benches. That'd be a nice world wouldn't you say. A place where only the experienced run the show ..rather than the third-raters - such as Jack Straw -we have at present.

    I always enjoyed (and somewhat puzzled) the high regard that is normally shown to Christine Lagarde from the established media...that lovely smart french woman who is the new head of the IMF. The thing is Largarde is schooled in the Chicargo school of economics.. er hello! And please don't ask me to explain to yer.

  • Comment number 26.

    :o( RIP Lucian Freud

  • Comment number 27.

    THE SMILE FADED TO HIGH GRADE STEEL (#25)

    Hussein seemed to unsettle La Guarded. Just before the image cut, the smile had died and the eyes were cold. It's a woman thing, I suppose.

    Lack of Campbell was made up for by a quantum of Goldsmith. Do you think he still has flashbacks? Or is it just the light on bullion.

    Does Blair of Jerusalem still call?

    THIS IS THE AGE OF PERVERSITY.

  • Comment number 28.

    Barrie:
    Hussein did unsettle the former syncronized swimmer (oh how I tire from hearing that one). Its the first time I've seen her rattled like that. Husssein got in there. Credit where credit is due..she did a good job. I'm just surprised that Lagarde's "economic credentials" has been a bit Don Corleno-ish...and it never gets a mention!.. She's from the Chicargo click.

  • Comment number 29.

    Best analysis I've heard on the Euro crisis was from Paul Mason who got it in one sentence. "Transfer of risk from banks to government" ie us, our children etc etc

  • Comment number 30.

    25. At 22:54 21st Jul 2011, kevseywevsey -
    You've not had Alastair Campbell on all week. Well done. You did have Balls on yesterday though:(


    Well... questions were being asked.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financevideo/8651989/Ed-Balls-David-Cameron-and-George-Osborne-should-be-at-eurozone-talks.html

    While others were not.

    http://order-order.com/2011/07/21/exclusive-cricket-balls/

    It's just not croquet. So probably OK.

    Speaking of The Mirror, imagine Mr. Morgan will not be gracing the sofa for a while either... until 'things' blow back the way that is right and proper.

    One media empire's deep concern is another's loss of memory, or maybe marbles.

    One guesses it depends on your POV.

  • Comment number 31.

    Via Paul Kugman, (From the Gnomes of Zurich …
    … to the Underpants Gnomes of Frankfurt) the Euro-plan summarised:

    1. Slash government spending in a depressed economy;
    2. Reduce demand further by raising interest rates;
    3. ?????
    4. Recovery!

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/21/euroblather/
    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/21/from-the-gnomes-of-zurich/
    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/21/1937-1937-1937/

    Meanwhile, the banks which helped the previous Greek government falsify their accounts go unpunished. The ratings agencies which initiated the present crisis by rating junk as AAA go unpunished, etc etc etc. Some of the main players in the current financial crisis were also implicated in the 1929 boom and crash. They exist to parasitise and extract rent from the productive economy.

    THESE COMPANIES SHOULD BE BROKEN UP AND WOUND UP!

  • Comment number 32.


    The Enemy Is Washington

    http://www.vdare.com/roberts/110721_enemy.htm

    'The downgrade threat is not credible, and neither is the default threat. Both are make-believe crises that are being hyped in order to force cutbacks in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
    If the rating agencies downgraded Treasuries, the company executives would be arrested for the fraudulent ratings that they gave to the junk that Wall Street peddled to the rest of the world. The companies would be destroyed and their ratings discredited. The US government will never default on its bonds, because the bonds, unlike those of Greece, Spain, and Ireland, are payable in its own currency.'

  • Comment number 33.

    #31

    As somebody noted on Peston's blog, what the Murdoch scandal is highlighting (and
    what others appear not to realise is) it's all about big business, power and wealth protection for the elite.
    It's not just the Euro zone, it's global. It's about business corporations having control over numerous western governments. These global corporations influence (take over) governments and policies (i.e. taxation, immigration, unemployment), making themselves more and more wealthy, whilst creating poverty for the rest of us.

    Look up Papandreou on Wiki and you will see that he is acting President of the Socialist International. How can he in any way be considered a real socialist for what he has imposed on the Greek nation and people. He is just another US puppet leader presiding over another US client state. He was even brought up in the US. He comes from an internationalist/cosmopolitan background. He is the third member of the Papandreou family to serve as the country's prime minister. His only priority is the globalists agenda.

  • Comment number 34.

    a visualisation of usa debt

    http://www.wtfnoway.com/

  • Comment number 35.

    Alastair Campbell - guilty of breaching the Official secrets Act?

    http://www.anniemachon.com/annie_machon/2011/07/alastair-campbell-guilty-of-breaching-the-osa.html

  • Comment number 36.

    So James Murdoch's claim that despite signing a HUGE cheque to an alleged victim of phone hacking, he never checked to see what had led to NI being sued and no one told him anything about hacking @ NI. Now two NI execs dispute this - IMHO JM is in real danger of criminal charges.

    I do hope this doesn't mean we take our eye of Coulson - I still want to know why he is the only No10 Comms Director who I understand was never "actively vetted" to give him the same security clearance as EVERY previous person in the job was required to have - are we seriously supposed to believe he didn't need it?

    I feel there is a more credible explanation - Cameron's staff knew Coulson would fail the vetting - so they rewrote the Comms Dir job description to sidestep the security checks - and in doing so, allowed Coulson right into the heart of government.

    I simply cannot sqaure this wth Cameron's explanation of how & why he took Coulson on - if he couldn't pass the vetting, by definition he shouldn't be in government, should he? Yet Cameron must have been a party to this - now that the wheels have come off, isn't conciously putting state security at risk in this way a resigning issue?

  • Comment number 37.

    SQUARING THE INNER CIRCLE (#36)

    By Sherlock's law: Coulson was taken on under instruction from Rupert M.

  • Comment number 38.

    Cameron should resign NOW over the Coulson affair......NOW

 

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