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Friday 29 July 2011

Sarah McDermott | 16:05 UK time, Friday, 29 July 2011

Two newspapers have been fined a total of £68,000 for breaking the law when reporting the investigation into landscape architect Jo Yeates' killing, and eight have paid out for libel.

Meanwhile, lawyers for the private investigator Glenn Mulcaire have issued a statement saying he "acted on the instructions of others".

So why does anyone bother with newspapers anymore? On tonight's Newsnight, our Political editor Michael Crick reports on the state of the British tabloid press.

And as US Republican leaders scramble to rescue their deficit-cutting bill hours after a vote on it stalled because of a revolt from members of their own party, we'll be joined by Sharron Angle, the Republican Senate Candidate for Nevada in 2010, and leading Tea Party figure.

Join us at 2230 on BBC Two.

Comments

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  • Comment number 1.

    NEWSPAPERS FINED PART OF THE PROFIT MADE FROM LIE-BOOSTED SALES

    That looks like 'good business' to me.

    Someone CHOSE to make false claims, yet only corporate fines are applied.

    In the Age of Perversity, can we now add 'Justice' to the policing, media and politics cabal uncovered in the phone hacking?

  • Comment number 2.

    "SO WHY DOES ANYONE BOTHER WITH NEWSPAPERS ANY MORE?"

    Very Droll NewsyNighty. You would do better to ask that question of yourself.

    Reinstate Newsnight. Remove the prima donna histrionics of the overpaid over-egoed. Eschew the son-et-lumiere embellishments and the connivance at political strategy (the non-answered question - the answer to some other question). Do not 'perform' in a complex, dual-platform 'circus', with migrainous walls, simply FUNCTION - BE FUNCTIONAL - as a, high order, news and comment programme, majoring in gravitas, acumen, cogency, perceptiveness - and the rest.

    Shouting in my bucket again . . .

  • Comment number 3.

  • Comment number 4.

  • Comment number 5.

    The list of potential skullduggery in the Murdoch saga grows ever longer but I can't help speculating just how much of UK government policy has been significantly influenced by this man and his associates. Two particular areas of policy stand out because there has effectively been " no real change " as a result of the general election.

    Firstly welfare reform, where the Tories have effectively adopted everything Labour was implementing, particularly relating to the abject mistreatment of the chronically sick and disabled, effectively branding everyone on Incapacity Benefit as scroungers. The collective Murdoch press has been at the cutting edge of the propaganda against the sick and disabled, with side kicks from the stock market listed Daily Mail and the Express, but then they are all targeted at the same " ignorant idiot " market. Its almost as though Murdoch had personally written welfare reform policy to impress his stock market celebrity stable mates, perhaps it would be well worth someone investigating his personal links ( if any ) with Labour turncoat now Tory Lord Freud ?

    Secondly climate change and energy policy, I can't remember the Sun ever covering the climate gate scandal prominently, although I never buy anything from Murdoch personally I never saw anything about it in the TV paper reviews. More recently The Times would appear to be avoiding adverse comment on energy policy, and as it turns out SKY are currently match funding eco-fascist WWF for their advert " three quid a month to save a jaguar ". There are also other green wash adverts about alleged sustainable paper, so it would appear that Murdoch interests are well in on the Climate Scam gravy train ?

    It may be reasonable to believe that Murdoch and his celebrity stock market parasite associates have been the main driver of the ongoing " Corporate Nazi " ideology festering in all four mainstream parties in UK politics. The welfare reforms and climate change policy ( in combination in particular ) echo the eco-fascist high priest stated aim to " kill all defectives ", no need for concentration camps, far more profitable to freeze and starve people to death in their own home.

  • Comment number 6.

    STEVE JONES AND HARRY HART - ONE IS A FAUX GOD THE OTHER ALREADY FORGOTTEN (Brossen99 various)

    Prof Jones says global warming is true - so it is.

    Harry Hart was championing sea-water fed algae, in deserts, decades ago (NON-GM algae can yield 50% oil). Only the price of oil stopped the show. Read NREL report

    http://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24190.pdf

    Just the sort of thing NewsyNighty should be reporting on definitively.

  • Comment number 7.

    the media is a like Cruella Deville that skins puppy public for fur coats 'to die for'.

  • Comment number 8.

  • Comment number 9.

    more pfi

    http://www.building.co.uk/comment/%E2%80%A6-and-in-other-news/5022009.article

    seems this week was the week to release bad news?

  • Comment number 10.

    POSTPONED FINAL INDICTMENT (#8 and 9)

    Here today gone tomorrow politicians, are not unlike slave traders doing good works.

    The good works can be pointed too, the misery is elsewhere and diffuse - less visible, and hits after politicians have moved on to well financed pastures new.

  • Comment number 11.

    ".....fined a total of £68,000 for breaking the law when reporting the investigation into landscape architect Jo Yeates' killing...."

    A p**s in the ocean compared to their daily takings, which is the minimum amount they should be fined, every single day they print malicious unsubstantiated defamations.

    "....on the state of the British tabloid press...."

    Why stop there?

  • Comment number 12.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 13.

    68 grand for warping your mind, influencing opinion and dragging us all further into the gutter.......68 mill wouldn't cover it........

  • Comment number 14.

    Aw good grief Rickenbacker!

    Re #12.

    I await notification of the issue you have with a two sentence post with interest. Meantime perhaps I should try the snappy little numbers I drafted on yesterdays 'and finally' piece. Except every time I re-read they just sounded smutty so I refrained.

    Anyway, you had smut aplenty. You had Hermione.

  • Comment number 15.

    TRENDING (#14)

    I suppose the NewsyNighty porn spot was bound to come BYT.

    Give NN it's due - it was gauche-factor 10. Just like the real thing.

    There's edgy.

  • Comment number 16.

  • Comment number 17.

    Gavin is an Obama supporting Democrat.

    I always liked Crick. Its just a pity he was a hard-core socialist. I don't watch channel 4 because of the Guardian reading Jon Snow..so I'll won't be seeing crick at his new place of "work". Ah Well, we move on. Such is life. Bye Micheal ...it was special.

  • Comment number 18.

  • Comment number 19.

    "I HAVE LIVED IN YOUR FUTURE AND IT DOESN'T WORK" (# 18 link)

    And if that doesn't chill your marrow, read 'The Silent State'. It goes a long way to illuminating the dark heart of Westminster; perhaps even its perverse relinquishing of 'competences' (aka powers) to the European adventure.

    And to cap it all the Conservative party is governing illegitimately by virtue of the Liar Flyer deployed in 2010.

    Time for The Few to stand up. WE CAN’T GO ON LIKE THIS.

  • Comment number 20.

    U.S. President Barack Obama, Friday, 29th July, 2011:
    "...if we don't come to an agreement, we could lose our country's 'triple-A' credit rating; not because we didn't have the capacity to pay our bills - we do; but because we didn't have a 'triple-A' political system to match..."

    Sarah Smith, Channel 4 News, Friday, 29th July, 2011:
    "...and the longer we go without a compromise, the more at risk is America's 'triple-A' credit rating; not because anybody thinks they won't actually be able to repay their debts, but because markets and investors are absolutely stunned that America doesn't have a 'triple-A' political system that seems able to sort out this mess."

    Bravo, Miss Smith: Obama's words, repeated almost verbatim, but portrayed as your own. Finding that balance hard, aren't you?

  • Comment number 21.

    The bias across the BBC when reporting on the US budget negotiations is palpable. The issue is presented as a choice between raising the debt ceiling or defaulting. This is a false dichotomy. It is possible for the US to meet its obligations without raising the debt ceiling. They could rein in their deficit spending, which has been so ineffective so far, and move to a balanced budget.

    How did we reach the point where the people supporting a balanced budget are portrayed as extremists who threaten the economic stability of the US and the world, while those who want to keep spending beyond their means when they are up to their eyeballs in debt are somehow the guardians of economic stability?

    This, of course, relates to the BBC's persistent left-wing bias, and its institutional instinct to favour the Labour, spend-and-tax/borrow model regardless of the existing levels of debt. Judging by the tone, Ed Balls could be the guest editor on every piece that the BBC does on this story.

    It stinks of diversionary tactics by Keynesians keen to distract our attention from the fact that the massive fiscal and monetary "boost" has produced another stock-market bubble, but minimal benefit to economic growth, employment or wellbeing. It has failed before this argument over the debt ceiling, but the intellectual establishment hope that, if they shout loudly enough without allowing contrary voices to be heard, people will be persuaded to blame a cause that came after the effect.

    We'll know they have started to address their bias when they give equal weight to reports and interviews with Democrats, where they accuse them of risking default and threatening global economic stability, because of their refusal to accept sufficient cuts to balance the budget.

  • Comment number 22.

    bgprior wrote:

    "How did we reach the point where the people supporting a balanced budget are portrayed as extremists who threaten the economic stability of the US and the world, while those who want to keep spending beyond their means when they are up to their eyeballs in debt are somehow the guardians of economic stability?"

    I just thought that was worth repeating.

    When Mark Mardell -the full on obuma cheerleader and BBC hack in the USA - started his report on the 10 oclock news, I switched over to ITN.

  • Comment number 23.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 24.

    DERIVATIVE (#22)

    That would surely be the most humble post of your life then Kev.

  • Comment number 25.

    'the state of the British tabloid press'

    As others have noted, and commented upon, interesting what gets left - in this case the broads and broadcasters - on the edit suite floor.

    Thank heavens for the internet. Free too, and almost entirely dependent on eyeballs.

    '22. At 01:06 30th Jul 2011, kevseywevsey - I switched over to ITN"

    A potent protest. If engaged the other way, they will feel it. However, this...?

  • Comment number 26.

    E-PETITIONS

    Dependent upon where you look, to have the Nurse-State (Nanny does not hold your hand) explain the joys of e-petitioning in its new domain, you will find that for ONLY 100,000 signatures, your petition "COULD" or perhaps "WILL" go forward to Parliament.

    That's the trouble with Weasels - you can't tell Fool-Weasels from Knave-Weasels; they all smell alike.

    DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - ESTABLISH GOVERNANCE OF INTEGRITY

  • Comment number 27.

    #21

    The paralysis in US politics driving the current budgetary impasse comes from defunct ideology, kept alive by momentum from the last 30 years and no longer aligned with an already changed social and economic landscape.

    The options the respective parties have to establish policy are constrained by notional past ideology rather than a cold assessment of what is needed. The result is neither party can offer up anything that is workable, they know it and the result is deadlock.

    Maybe the only thing that can 'reset' the ideologies is some kind of game changing singularity... like the USA defaulting on its debt. Maybe that is exactly the shock the system needs? Maybe, ultimately, it will be the least damaging way to move to something fresh and new?

    I am starting to think the USA failing to reach agreement and defaulting on its debt is the least worst option out there.... seriously.

    If you were to strip out historic ideology the only real policy response to the underlying economic sea change driving all of this is an unlikely policy mix of quite far right policies and quite far left policies i.e. the things both of the existing camps find most abhorent to their outdated values... hence deadlock.

    This works on many levels, but just one examples below for brevity.

    The deficeit must be reduced, the Republicans are right, they are wrong to rule out tax rises to do that which will only increase the already shocking wealth divide.

    They are wrong because unlike previous generations there is no viable way the vast majority of the poor to 'work and innovate their way out of poverty'.

    There is no longer a viable mechanism for anything except a v small proportion of the poor to 'attain the American dream' through hard work, risk taking and general dynamism. The States is simply too advanced technologically already to ever be able to generate enough full time jobs without first hitting the buffers of available natural resources.

    The only policy response which makes sense is to strongly curb immigration (right wing) Tax the rich and corporate america (left wing), reduce the social budget (right wing) and invest agressively in state subsidised sustainable technology (left wing).

    This should be done with a 'new American Dream' in mind to build an America which is self sufficient and independent in meeting its basic needs for energy and commodities within its own borders. That advantage can then be passed to the people, everybody could work less, free from worry to put food on the table or heat their homes and concentrate on inventing, trading and negotiating in a free market for everything else while having more time for family and friends.

    A massive mobilisation would be needed to create the new infrastructure required to enact the above, which would create millions of jobs which would leave a positive legacy behind for that investment in labour and ease the transition to a new type of economic model.

    Failing an attack of common sense on the lines as above a USA default may be the next best, and, sadly, the most realistic way to eventually get to apoint when the above singular path out of this global crisis is enacted.

    With all western Governments in the pockets of corporate lobbyists supported by unhinged media empires in a kind of 'dance of death' I dont hold out much hope, which is just really really dumb of us all as a species.

    I wish I could find away to break through with the above ideas, all i see pumped out of the BBC, SKY.. almost everyone is regurgitated garbage from outdated, dysfunctional and entrenched historical positions which have little relevence in the new world we have created but are pumped out relentlessly non the less as the only options.

    dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.... just so dumb and we will all pay double for it in the end if that cycle is not broken, be you a corporate fat cat or a struggling family it will all come crashing down in a chaotic way for everyone, money will not protect you if it gets that far.












  • Comment number 28.

    ADVERSARIAL GOVERNANCE EMPOWERS THE APE? (#27)

    INTENTIONAL adversarial governance invites the PERVERSE APE? That would explain a lot.

    The underlying theme of Daoism - seeking 'The Way' knowing it can not be found, and trying to achieve balance knowing instability always lurks, is anathema to 'Western' ideology, that (consequently?) yields perpetual technology-based war, and deceit based politico-commerce, with socio-psychological decline. As if that weren't enough: with wealth and power interchangeable, and a juvenile population that can never have enough of either (particularly the needy, driven elite) a spectacular mess is about par for the course.

    As Marvin would intone: "I think I'm getting depressed."

    Since the void UK election of 2010, I have been challenging every aspect of Westminster governance, to acknowledge that 'Honour obliges' and integrity calls. They just will not engage. Ironically, the EU has no power in this area.

    Our only option would seem to be to bomb ourselves onto democracy, as we do Johnnie Foreigner. Blessed are the Cheese-makers.

    DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - INSTALL INTEGRITY

  • Comment number 29.

  • Comment number 30.

    #29

    Reassuring to know other people 'get it'. Not reassuring to know he only gets 1,200 hits on U-tube while the Sun newspaper still sells 3M copies a day despite its place at the heart of the moral cesspool that is NI. I see a constant stream of people happily skipping out of my local newsagents with a copy under their arm.. now that it truely Marvinesquely depressing.

    Maybe we are just too dumb to survive.

    Barrie #28 .. on the money again, your third paragraph shows you truely do undertstand, the real trouble is most people see no need to even try to understand, after all (at the moment), they have food, a house a foreign holiday once a year and a copy of the Sun everyday to titilate the senses... they see no need to try to understand anything.. until the above things are taken from them.... then and only then will they start the process of trying to understand.

    I actually envy them sometimes, it is such a burden to see things as they really are and being of a make up that compels one to try to make things better while knowing the efforts will fail to prevent anything, condemned to be one of those surveying the burnt out wasteland and misery saying '' I told you so'' .

    I am off now to buy acopy of the Sun, eat afew cream cakes, have afew beers and watch the last few weeks episodes of Eastenders..



  • Comment number 31.

  • Comment number 32.

    Judging by my kids' attitudes to newspapers - both of mine are @ the Uni stage - papers are something you only use to protect the carpet when painting or for lining the bottom of the rabbit's cage. Its not just that they don't have the habit of reading a paper - they get their news online from social media sites or pressure groups - but there's virtual total contempt for the press in the upcoming generation.

    I've chatted in a student house with the next generation and their antipathy to the press is very deep:

    1. They see it as rightwing and therefore bigoted, pro rich anti poor and reactionary to issues they care a lot about, e.g. global warming- so why support it at all by buying papers?

    2. After NOTW, they see most of the press as corrupt liars - probaly unfair I konw, but give a dog a bad name...

    3. Move even a tiny bit up the class ladder and the celeb culture is despised - the airheads featured in the redtops are held in total contempt - they prefer YouTube for their amusement anyway - moving pictures are far better!

    4. Disillusionment with politics and distrust of all politicians now runs deep - most see even Labour as well to the right of them - as for the LibDems, forget it - they are held in the deepest of deep distrust since they went back on major election pledges and have supported the student fee hike, scrapping EMA, etc.

    5. Money - fees, cost of living and poor job prospects means that their money is spent of food, a few drinks and the really important things like computer games - so no money for a paper.

    I'd therefore like to make the following suggestion - that the broadcast media stops giving the print media such prominence because it is becoming increasingly irrelevant - why should NN nearly always have a print journo in to a panel? Why should it feature tomorrow's papers every night? Why does Breakfast etc give over hours to the newspapers?

    TV is at least free at the point of consumption, be it broadcast or online - my kids' generation virtually lives online, yet they seem to shun online TV news/current affairs, yet they watch hours of entertainment programming that way - but they are still interested in many of the issues and stories the BBC etc cover.

    Surely its time the BBC recognised that this is not healthy - and I think it is partially because the young generation see the BBC as too closely allied with print which they actively despise. Why doesn't the BBC news output tap into the online social media and interest group media and ditch%2

  • Comment number 33.

    FOR A MOMENT THERE JERICOA (#30)

    I thought you were off to Milliways to watch stars going 'foom' and boiling away into space.

  • Comment number 34.

    A POINT SO OBVIOUS IT HAD NOT OCCURRED TO ME (#32)

    Why feature print media?

    You don't think press and Beeb have a cosy little association do you?

    One day soon, they will bury this rump of free resource, without ever having tapped it. But then, yesterday, I heard some power-wielding BBC female on 'Feedback' - a whole lot about the BBC became very clear.

    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 35.

    lets hope there is not another 'hacking whistleblower commits suicide in act of remorse story'?

  • Comment number 36.

  • Comment number 37.

    Fining newspapers, or any other organisation, is a copout unless the individuals concerned are also fined. HUMAN BEINGS take decisions: they should be held personally responsible, and it should be illegal for their organisations to indemnify or compensate them. The organisations should then be fined double the estimated financial gain attributed to the misdeeds.

    As for the US situation, the role of the Murdoch empire in polarising that country, and making it almost ungovernable should not be underestimated. Politics is increasingly based on faith and not reality. And that faith is often seriously perverted: to love guns and wealth whilst also loving Jesus is an extreme act of Orwellian doublethink - but it sets the political agenda there. The US has many sane citizens, but it is in the grip of some collective psychoses which are very dangerous to the world as a whole. These psychoses are encouraged by a tiny minority with wealth and power who set the main media agenda. This minority of "corporate nasties" are the enemy of the rest of humanity.

  • Comment number 38.

    Mod, seeing as my post (#23), in response to #22, consisted almost entirely of a link to http://biased-bbc.blogspot.com/ - links that have been posted, previously - no rule has been broken.

    I suggest you reconsider your kneejerk reaction.

    If tailoring the link to show posts featuring the scrupulously-impartial Mark Mardell is too much, might I be permitted to suggest readers use the search box at the top of the page, on the left? Oh, and don't forget to hit 'Return' to get the results.

  • Comment number 39.

    DOES AMERICA HAVE A HOMER SIMPSON BLOODLINE ELITE? (#36 link)

    Every night I watch Homer hanging from a tree and electrocuting himself.

    More to the point: where do the elite do their food shopping?

    Doh!

  • Comment number 40.

    AS WITH NEWSPAPERS SO WITH SPEED BUMPS (#37)

    Dead right Sasha. Inhibit the mind of man and you have reduced the problem.

    Exactly what I advised the local Council, when they asked us all; "Do you want NO SPEED BUMPS, LOW BUMPS or HIGH BUMPS." I tried to tell them that it was bumps that led to the premature destruction of the previous road surface, because the drivers were not too concerned about their cars. I advised no bumps, but with some sophisticated SLOWING OF THE DRIVERS (using money saved). i.e. MIND CONTROL. Fear of license points etc.

    We got another lot of bumps.

    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 41.

    BLAIR OF JERUSALEM SEEMED OK WITH JESUS GUNS AND MONEY - IT WAS HIS "PAIN:GAIN RATIO" PHILOSOPHY (#37)

    Funny that Breivik is the one labelled 'mad'.

    Would Jesus be OK with St Tony's 'reasoning'?

    Watch the last part of Blair 2, at Chilcot, and be afraid.

  • Comment number 42.

    #33 I am a Marvin with aspirations to be a Starflartibartfast.

    #32 Encouraging to know that the 'Uni- sate' youth dont but into the tabloid media muck. But, as perhaps suggested in your post they do rather like their mobile phone apps, games consoles and social media sites ... plus afew other types of sites as well im sure... Are they not simply accepting one form of awareness dulling distraction for another?

    #37 Human beings eh... I reckon the board of news international are actually Vogons, their journalism certainly has a Vogon poetry like quality to it.

    De de de da...... nah

  • Comment number 43.

    #42.

    No42.. how un-intensionally appropriate.. or maybe those mice have been messing with the universe again.

  • Comment number 44.

  • Comment number 45.

    @42 Jericoa - of course! They are demolishing the Earth economy to make way for the interstellar version of a Mc-motorway service station. Except that by feeding us with misinformation they are getting us to do their dirty work for them.

    To use the (very frightening) old Soviet NKVD "logic": objectively they ARE Vogons, as, if they were, they wouldn't be acting any differently.

  • Comment number 46.

  • Comment number 47.

    #43/45 - I am getting my towel ready right now.

    Some things cannot be put down to coincidence, and with "The Editors' now being an irony-free online version of the 'Beware of the Leopard' basement/filing cabinet, the signs are too much.

    I just hope there's a uniquely-exclusive BBC ark, and I am nowhere near where it ends up.

  • Comment number 48.

    #45

    We could be onto something here.

    RM does look a little bit like a Vogon, his table banging prose is suitably awkward and grating to the ear, his organisation's industrial scale demolition job on journalistic and political integrity would be worthy of a Vogon Hyper Space Bypass space clearance crew's justified reputation for efficient thuggery obscured by a smokescreen of bureacracy.

    As you say ''objectively they ARE Vogons, as, if they were, they wouldn't be acting any differently''

    They also appear to have got hold of a 'somebody else's problem field generator' , have cranked it up to maximum and cast it over Westminster.

    oops my super- chromatic peril sensitive sunglasses have just gone pitch black... was that a knock on the door I hear?

    Better grab my towel before they zap me with a 'point of view' gun.




    Along the lines of No.42 above... no co-incidence I suspect that a lot of regular posters on here seem to have alot of knowlege of the works of DA.


  • Comment number 49.

  • Comment number 50.

    did anyone else find that American Taliban woman on fri's show extremely scary? The level of ignorance combined with absolute fanaticism was unbelievable, surely she is an archetype of the kind of ultra-hypocritical members of the "McCarthy" trials Court, or the conscience-less Catholic Inquisitors?


    hopefully Glen Mulcaire WILL speak out, its perhaps a pity that there is yet no "on-line" media that is willing to "pay for stories". (or is it?)


    going to miss ol' Crick, might even saunter over to C4 website to watch their news. Does C4 even HAVE a web-site yet? Surely they must?


    #48: DA was just vastly ahead of the spiral, like the Pythons. Great truths are expressed again and again - and we all live within the Stories so generated. Talking of which - give me a Vogon over that US Taliban woman!! Or could she rip off her mask and reveal....!!! :o


    #27, jeri i agree with the basic thrust of your post, and all the major points, but to nit-pick... ;) :

    "The only policy response which makes sense is to strongly curb immigration (right wing)"
    in the US, it has been the political policy of the right-wing (neo-cons) to support immigration, GWB himself was very pro-immigration, to the dismay of many Faux watchers. In fact, immigration into the US has *very* little impact upon the country's problems, because the place is so vast. Also, some of the most strident "anti-immigration" has come from the unions, organised labour - what little there is left of them.


    "Tax the rich and corporate america (left wing), "
    only party arguing for that out there are the "eco-fascist" US Green Party, and the odd independent, anti-kkkorporate Senator.


    "reduce the social budget (right wing)"
    same policy in 'both' Parties, same as UK. And this would be a disaster for the US, as it would here. What is actually needed is to remove "the private sector" from the bureaucracy and disbursement, to make it efficient and cost effective.

    "and invest agressively in state subsidised sustainable technology (left wing)."
    neither 'left' nor 'right' - just common sense.

    in a way this highlights how silly the whole left/right false debate is, it doesn't make sense, and *never* made sense, but as a tool of "controlling the masses" it has been very useful since the beginning of the general franchise, in the 20th Century. It turns politics into the level of debate and problem-solving that Celtic and Rangers epitomise.

  • Comment number 51.

    #49: this is the man who managed to literally hand his mates in the City over £3,000,000,000 in the space of hours. There are very few Tories who are even vaguely economically competent - norman lamont is NOT one of them.

    pretty much everything he says is completely and utterly wrong.


    -unless of course, your goals are actually the destruction of the modern welfare state, and the re-imposition of overt Class-based authoritarian Aristocracy. Then he makes some sort of sense.

    look at this gem:

    "These include abolishing Job Centres, scrapping maternity leave, suspending consumer rights, defying EU employment laws. The frustration is understandable - but patience is also needed. "

    this is almost his Wish List, and people with more than two brain-cells will realise what is missing - where is the requirement, as in the US, that the wealthy start shouldering THEIR tax-burdens? Not there, is it? And neither is he. "All there", that is.

  • Comment number 52.

    #51

    Hey Mork, your 'nit picking' is fair enough, If the main points and thrust hit the mark that is (with my limited ambitions and writing skills) what I aim for.

    I got the 'reduce the social budget' totally wrong. My typing was ahead of my brain on that one I think.

    Substantially reduce and re-direct the defence budget makes more sense, think of the advances they could make in creating a 'steady state' economy with only 1/2 of that budget to play with.. a huge number of jobs could be created for a (say) ten year period as well. Instead of spending a fortune keeping a big enough army to bully jonny foreigner to protect your energy supply ..hey .. invest that money in creating a system that does not need that energy supply !!

    Concerning social budgets, I am not a fan of paying people to do nothing as a long term solution to anything for either party, it cultures sloth on one side and contempt on the other as we can see here in extremis.

    Use the money to set them up so they can live in a sustainable way (without money changing hands) and give them the opportunity to 'earn' monetary extras by working, could be voluntary community prog type work or community farm type projects.

    All essential needs taken out of capitalists hands (food, energy, transport, water, health, banking, basic welfare) so that human misery can no longer be traded for corporate profit. Everything else outside that basic sphere can be invented, traded, enjoyed, bubbles can form and collapse, people can make millions and lose millions with delightful dynamism and good will confident in the knowledge that a simple sustainable life in safe not for profit hands underpins everything.

    I suppose that is the thrust of everything I repeatedly fail to get out into mainstream consciousness.

    There is a massive opportunity in all of this, it could be a really exciting positive time to construct something on the lines as above, but nobody even talks about it or offers it up in the 'mainstream'.. it is not pie in the sky it is real achievable stuff with the technology and the knowledge we now have.

  • Comment number 53.

    jericoa, again i could only quibble about minor points, i think you have summed it up admirably.

    Le Quibbles: "Concerning social budgets, I am not a fan of paying people to do nothing as a long term solution to anything for either party, it cultures sloth on one side and contempt on the other as we can see here in extremis."

    in contrary, i believe in paying EVERYONE to do nothing, the basic "Citizens Income", a taxable benefit paid to all. Those who want more, can work. Those who wish to be musicians, or study, or travel, or be home-makers, or sit around smoking pot watching media can do so. In fact, the amount of money taken for bureaucratic number-crunching, pen-pushing, and "means testing" of the current system would cover most of the additional costs, and the sense of social relief would be extraordinary.

    most people would still choose to work, of course, and many more would go back to study, or volunteer. The "sloth" you mention, which is real, is somewhat engendered by appalling ancient education structures, that do not motivate people from poorer backgrounds to enjoy their minds and bodies, but which attempt to train them to be servile creatures of no employment rights. And in areas of high unemployment/poverty, sometimes even worse.

    frankly, look around. There is VAST amounts of wealth in the UK, - just like global food supplies, the problem is not food - the problem is distribution of food and power. And in the UK, the problem is distribution of wealth. And therefore power.

    the current attempts to make a "reciprocal" element in benefits is PURELY a way to force ever more people off benefits, which is absolutely designed to make employment a burden, and not a pleasure. Why should enjoyment of life be restricted to those with wealth? If we drop the notion that a Society works together, and we ALL have rights to an even faintly decent life, then what are we left with? A Society essentially based upon slavery, with a permanent ruling class who block access to self-improvement for the vast majority, a Society with no conscience or heart.

    sloth CAN sometimes e extraordinarily productive - in the long-term. Only a few musicians ever find that gold-vein - but their creations may bedazzle for many many generations.

    and i'm sorry, but to be told by people who largely inherited their wealth and influence, that those few pounds a week "cannot be afforded by the UK, without giving something back (ie be kkkorporate drones for Tescos or McDs)", gives me a certain "gut-reaction" probably similar to what Americans felt when they think about 9/11.

    drat, time to go out.

  • Comment number 54.

    Regards scrapping maternity leave - I don't blame him. A woman has a child and then takes a year off. Multiply that by 2 or 3, and the costs to the employer keep adding up. Surely it's a sensible idea to scrap it? I'd go even further than scrapping EU employment law. I'd scrap ALL EU law and let Britain get back to making it's own laws.

  • Comment number 55.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9550000/9550990.stm

    Yup , sums up the whole depressing situation in my opinion.

    It is strange that such assessments are so rarely broadcast, for people should be told of a broad range of opinions so they can make their own minds up.

    @38
    Thanks for the link.

  • Comment number 56.

    #55

    Good link, I followed it up and found this.


    http://www.tullettprebon.com/Documents/strategyinsights/Tim_Morgan_Report_007.pdf

    I dont agree with some of the libertarian rhetoric but the raw economic discussion is the most thoroughly substantiated I have seen to date. Wont be long before this sort of thing breaks through into the mainstream.

    The company who wrote it are (presumably) paid to advise investors, that sector has been bailed out now, the way I see it this paper written by 'Tulletprebon'' in the above link is, in effect saying.


    '' ok fellow super rich, we have been bailed out as much as they can afford to now, time to cash in and get out before it collapses and the muppets (hard working families and small business) realise what is going on.


    #53 The link puts some interesting meat on the bones of our discussion as well.





  • Comment number 57.

    #38 link: BBC bias and "economic ignorance". First video shows that if you drastically lower wages and worker rights, kkkorporations will "invest" in your area - until somewhere else lowers further. Apparently, knowing this basic piece of history and information, meant the BBC was "biassed" - presumably opinions from the ignorant should have equal weight to the informed? Or perhaps its just more of the same far-right BBC bashing, by people who regard News Korp, and the Express to be "mainstream". I'm going to guess the latter.

    now, the BBC certainly *does* have some largely commonly-held "biasses" - they are supporters of the large majority of scientists who are worried about Climate Change, and also energy-sustainability. They are economically literate enough to KNOW that cutting wages and rights is economically disastrous (after all, many of them were journalists in the 80s, and saw the REALITY of what such policies produce), and they are more aware than most london-based media organisations of the depth of poverty and disillusionment across the Country - at least in part BECAUSE they are truly a National Broadcaster, and have done many investigations into conditions and areas that most of the media would send the scummest 'reporters' into, whereas the BBC sends their best.

    now, at the same time, the BBC is under the control of the London Govt, and if they annoy them too much (by being too honest), then the Govt cuts the BBC budget, - BECAUSE THEY CAN. The BBC does not have much freedom - but its principled staff do the best they can.

    and no - the BBC is not perfect, but the people who attack it are rarely people whose opinions i (and most other intelligent and informed people) would care about anyway, frankly. For the same reason i don't buy the Sun, or the Mail, or watch FauxNews. Fanatical right-wing-nuts already have a vast arrange of mass-media at their disposal - but it absolutely kills them that some people may still want to hear things that they do not. So they attack and slander the BBC. Until the BBC is ecstatic about employment rights being trampled, until it extols the virtues of poverty for the majority, until it cradles massive wars over diminishing resources instead of energy security, until it also hates foreigners and islam, the wing-nuts will never be happy.

    well, i am sorry, but i simply don't think the opinions of people like Breivik and "tommy robinson" are of equal weight, and i am GLAD that the BBC is not FauxNews-Lite. YOU want to hear such opinions as "fact" - then read the media which serves them up. There is more than enough of it.

    to repeat: "and no - the BBC is not perfect".


    --in fact, looking through that site at #38, i have rarely seen such trash, and naked bias. Actually, since the LAST Wing-Nut-site this blog sent me to: "Euro-Times". Openly racist filth such as this criticising the BBC for bias??? Mote, beam, kettle, black.

  • Comment number 58.


    “Economic Armageddon”: Washington’s Response to a Failed Ecomomy: More War

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/economic-armageddon-washington%e2%80%99s-response-to-a-failed-ecomomy-more-war.html

  • Comment number 59.

    okay, for those of you who are interested in the economic crisis, here's a program that my Ecoomics tutor let us play with - its "engine" is *exactly* the same model that the Treasury uses in its own calculations, obviously with a bit of political flummery to keep it interesting. Btw, its *ancient*, and was originally written for the 32k-memory-tape-loading Acorn home-computers. Back in the mythological 80s, in fact.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain_Ltd
    http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002123

    unfortunately, there are two issues: an emulator has to be used (i'd recommend FUSE):
    http://fuse-emulator.sourceforge.net/

    and the other is: DO remember it is ancient!!! Neither the graphics nor the gameplay would capture many teenagers today, but not only is this an accurate economic simulation, it can actually get quite competitive and (fun?), as you try to get re-elected for the 4th time. (almost impossible).

    the economic strategies that result, are quite eye-opening, even eye-popping at times!! (no, i won't explain, try the game. Test out all those economic myths the murdochracy has forced down our throats - and remember, this IS based upon the Treasury model then, and still used today.)

    i think most will be surprised as to the reality of the various economic theories, and even moreso, when they can compare directly the results of their economic experiments with what has been happening IRL for the last 30 years.

    btw - do NOT download the recent "windows port" on the first link, every trojan/virus/firewall i have went ballistic when i tried.

    There doesn't seem to be much difference between the spectrum-tape files though.

    ANYWAYS - if you can make it work, grit your teeth, and feel what it is like to be George Osborne. Or rather, the economists working under that political hack. Totally recommnded, especially if you have a friend or two to compete with. :)

  • Comment number 60.

    #59: and little doubt the racists, and "Islamophobes", will be quite happy about that. Those who can only hate, not build. WW1, like WW2 and most other wars, was entirely avoidable. WW3, AKA: "The Extinction of Mankind, and the Decline of the Mammals", is also entirely avoidable.

  • Comment number 61.

    AS I HAVE POSTED PREVIOUSLY (#46)

    Where absolute believer-zealots, of the "PAIN:GAIN RATIO" kind, are concerned, you cannot get a fag paper between two high profile mass murderers, whose names begin with B. One has already been called 'mad'. . .

    WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

  • Comment number 62.

    THE BBC ARK (#47)

    'First against the wall' would do Junkk. But 'nice' nonetheless.

  • Comment number 63.

    #56: read the intro, ironically enough its criticism of others is equally valid to itself: "good summary of the problem, disastrous recommended solutions".

    i note, without it is true reading further than the intro/overview, that the paper seems to entirely miss the role the kkkorporate sector has played, and whilst 'big-upping' the SMEs sector (small, medium enterprises), also claims that it is the poor that will have to suffer, and welfare must be ended.


    here is the SIMPLE FACT OF WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE UK ECONOMY - the kkkorporates and wealthy are refusing to pay taxes. Yes, it really is that simple. Plus, we have a govt run for, and to a great extent by, those very same two groups. (Banksters fall under kkkorporates).

    without their tax monies, not only is there an enormous shortfall (thus national debt), but they use that money to buy ever further swathes of the efficient, tax-paying and profitable SMEs - or drive them into bankruptcy through unfair, and deregulated, competition.

    so, in short, what IS the problem with the UK?? This, and the last, Govt. And the one before that.

    the problem with people being "bred to rule", is that that often means they don't bother to learn the actual mechanics of HOW THINGS WORK. And in many cases, are *wilfully* ignorant, because, to be frank, such ignorance, -by coincidence-, benefits them personally & financially.

    doff your cap, and tug your forelock, the Tories are in town. And they have forgotten the first rule of Aristocracies that survive - treat your people well, and don't use your power for corruption. But then what can we expect from a Party that debased itself into a mere holding bag for commercial interests? I think "Murdochgate" has revealed their true character.

  • Comment number 64.

  • Comment number 65.

  • Comment number 66.

    sorry jericoa, missed replying the rest of #52, was in a rush earlier:

    "I got the 'reduce the social budget' totally wrong. My typing was ahead of my brain on that one I think.

    "Substantially reduce and re-direct the defence budget makes more sense, think of the advances they could make in creating a 'steady state' economy with only 1/2 of that budget to play with.. a huge number of jobs could be created for a (say) ten year period as well. Instead of spending a fortune keeping a big enough army to bully jonny foreigner to protect your energy supply ..hey .. invest that money in creating a system that does not need that energy supply !!"

    --total yes.


    "Concerning social budgets, I am not a fan of paying people to do nothing as a long term solution to anything for either party, it cultures sloth on one side and contempt on the other as we can see here in extremis.

    "Use the money to set them up so they can live in a sustainable way (without money changing hands) and give them the opportunity to 'earn' monetary extras by working, could be voluntary community prog type work or community farm type projects."

    --if such were offered now, especially the chance to work/live on an actual permaculture farm, plus the learning of new skills that if they liked the work, study and life-style, could even become the basis of a new life in the countryside for them, to work alongside equals, i think if such were offered, many would take it. I don't see that it is necessary to force people. Just offer them opportunities that *really* benefit them. I do not think the State should be allowed to use the unemployed as virtual kkkorporate slave labour. Wages should be high enough to allow people to leave the so-called "Welfare Trap", and workplaces should not be rigidly hierarchical, nor inheritable. I do think and agree with you though, that the Govt should do far more to add *possibilities* to the unemployed, especially the long-term unemployed.


    "All essential needs taken out of capitalists hands (food, energy, transport, water, health, banking, basic welfare) so that human misery can no longer be traded for corporate profit. Everything else outside that basic sphere can be invented, traded, enjoyed, bubbles can form and collapse, people can make millions and lose millions with delightful dynamism and good will confident in the knowledge that a simple sustainable life in safe not for profit hands underpins everything."

    ---ipso-fracto-frakkin-zactly, capn.

    "I suppose that is the thrust of everything I repeatedly fail to get out into mainstream consciousness.

    "There is a massive opportunity in all of this, it could be a really exciting positive time to construct something on the lines as above, but nobody even talks about it or offers it up in the 'mainstream'.. it is not pie in the sky it is real achievable stuff with the technology and the knowledge we now have."

    --and again, absolutely spot on. Well, some people are, here and there. I don't think the awareness of that ever really goes away, its just forgotten now and then...

    GOLLY!! - LOOK AT THAT!!!


    ...mass-censored media. That's what China has, you know. And Russia, Iran, North Korea. Luckily, we have a free press. So instead of hearing all the good ideas and energy that would otherwise be bombarding us, we hear tittle-tattle, and nearly entirely fictitious military reports, gladiator/sports results, and official proclamations by the dozen.

    That is what we want to hear!

    ...just like we "voted for the Coalition". (its always *our* fault!)


    The reason why we're not getting good news, is that the people at the 'top' are not making good news, they are making bad news.

  • Comment number 67.

    NO ONE VOTED COALITION MORK - THE ELECTION WAS VOID - NICK INFORMED (#66)

    Months ago, I sent Nick a copy of the Conservative Liar Flyer (false instrument) employed by a minimum of 9 sitting MPs.

    http://www.electionleaflets.org/leaflets/5831/

    Nick, in common with almost all his honourable (and RIGHT honourable) chums, DID NOT REPLY. He made no attempt to correct any misapprehension I might have (e.g. explain how to read the multiple-falsehood - signed by Dave - AS TRUE). Now why might that be? Nor did he set the dogs on me.

    Not only was the election void - WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE by virtue of the absence of integrity in YET ANOTHER ONE.

    WE CAN'T GO ON LIKE THIS - SPOILPARTYGAMES - INSTALL INTEGRITY

  • Comment number 68.

    'the state of the British tabloid pr..[media]'

    Newsynightie! Tonight's guest list writes itself.

    Seems some young moppet in a struggling country is upset she did not get her bonus for not, as such, doing her job.

    Despite the cuts, it can only be right and proper to fly all the team out to Tuscany (they can bunk with Polly, one is sure, at 'mates' rates) for a 'special' on what critics are saying about this.

    Maybe Mr. Miliband can be coaxed out to demand answers, and an 'expert' or two can be rustled up from a quango or charity or NGO to emote and suggest that, in this case, just a little more could be eked from private sector savings in the UK to prop up this poor girl's fiscal ambitions and, doubtless, promising new career as a media analyst or MEP.

    Hope this will find favour, being 'topical', as I can only note that across the BBC blogosphere, as the school hols kick in all sorts are off 'for a few weeks' but, from experience, any comments not referring to the point pre-departure are being excised for being 'off topic'. Mr. Robinson on politics (may need to revisit that 'a week is a long time' quote) and Mr. Black on environment being prime examples.

    Douglas wrote a book or two on it.

  • Comment number 69.

    WE MUST BE PERVERSE - LITERALLY PERVERSE

    All major public offices - ESPECIALLY WESTMINSTER - employ Masters of Adjusted Truth (aka liars) - to effect 'mind manipulation' of we-the-people who, IN A DEMOCRACY, are supposed to be in control. They do this so that aberrant and/or erroneous policies may be progressed with impunity. Westminster is a tyrannical usurper.

    We now know that our 'national broadcaster', the press, the police, 'justice' etc ALL COLLUDE, CONNIVE and CONSPIRE TOGETHER.

    Here and there, a courageous 'whistle blower' emerges - some being systematically destroyed for their temerity. Those who remain, such as Annie Machon, are THE FEW in our WAR ON PERVERSITY.

    I invite the BBC to see the light. CHANGE SIDES AND FIGHT THE ENEMY WITHIN.

  • Comment number 70.

    Re bias.

    The BBC has a statutory duty to be non-partisan in UK politics. However, it can't be even-handed in the rest of the world. Can it be equally non-partisan in the US and Iran or Saudi-Arabia say?

    US politics starts more or less where UK politics ends. The important thing, all over the world, when reporting the views of the powerful, is also to record who finances them and to what extent. Also, the voices in the street should also be heard, brainwashed or not - perhaps in the context of what the local media publishes.

    Coming back to the UK, Newsnight may see itself as the voice of the educated elite, but far too often we have the vision of a narrow London based clique, living in a solipsistic bubble.

    NO MORE Will Self etc please! More from real people in the regions, or from those like Ian Hislop who regularly battle with the powerful in the courts, so that they can tell an important story.

  • Comment number 71.

    ET TU HYSLOP? (#70)

    Funny thing about Hislop/Eye - I can get no traction with the Liar Flyer there. All MY legal advice and logical thought (plus evidence of a year's silence from the Minster Monster) indicates there is no risk of court action. (How could there be?) Would I be correct in seeing Hislop as having a Conservative bias? Is he another closet sup-er with a short spoon? Oh dear - NOT more perversity surely? And from the Eye??

  • Comment number 72.

    although the article is shocking enough, i wonder how widespread the views shown in the comments are?

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/osbornes-ties-murdoch-revealed-160129348.html

  • Comment number 73.

    There's a BBC Strike on today, so no Newsnight.

  • Comment number 74.

    Oo... late entry.

    This chap might be worth getting in...

    @dylsharpe - 95% of the signatories on this list would have told us that AV was in the 'public interest'. The public didn't agree. http://bit.ly/oE5uBp

    But why do I suspect those he describes will be 'around' more?

    This 'speaking for "us"' lark is very hard to grasp.

  • Comment number 75.

    '73. At 11:24 1st Aug 2011, Mistress76uk wrote:
    There's a BBC Strike on today, so no Newsnight.


    One presumes the refund is in the mail... if likely a 'unique' one?

  • Comment number 76.

    #56

    Thanks for that link, it took me awhile to wade through it.

    Yes the problem is well argued and is very detailed in its case, even funny in parts with its strident criticism or indeed bewilderment of the previous governments performance.

    I must say I like the idea of stripping out the effects of any debt induced growth from the GDP figures. I have never understood how general consumption debt can be seen as a good thing.

    But given there has been growth in the economy , however reduced by temporary mitigating circumstances in Q2, I am not ready to admit failure yet, however stubborn that may make me appear to be :)

    I can not understand why some people would be calling for the highest rate of tax to be reduced. Hell, we would all like all our taxes reduced , but given the situation, any tax cuts should be targeted at productive SMEs activity.

    The governments energy plans seems to be oxymoron when their task should be to foster private sector growth.

    I hope NN will start to ask questions on the energy plans, see how they really stack up with the stated economic imperatives.

  • Comment number 77.

    DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - SPOILPARTYGAMES - INSTALL INTEGRITY (#72)

    The ULTIMATE self-service cafeteria that is Westminster, comes daily into sharper focus. Its corruption is suffused at a molecular level; hence hard to detect, while CONTROL is absolute. We are at a 'Henry V' moment; the Westminster Citadel is breached - the black heart is exposed.

    "Once more unto the breach dear friends, once more." Those Creatures who find Westminster a conducive place for their games, constitute, by virtue of many decades of distillation, a dark elixir of hypocrisy and deceit. God knows what they might not use, to 'fill the gap', if we fail to take this chance.

  • Comment number 78.

    "BBC LOOKING FOR DEEP CUTS TO SAVE MONEY" (Radio 4 news)

    LOOKING for? It's a joke - right?

    Nuff sed.

  • Comment number 79.

    In the absence of a production team, it's down to the bloggers to create our very own Fantasy NewsNight!

    So here goes:

    On tonight's fantasy programme we take a group of Tea Party activists to an Auto Workers' Union Hall to meet Gerry Springer (aided by his peacekeeping bouncers) to explain why they've driven up interest rates, cost auto workers their jobs and depressed the US housing market even further and threatened the existence of the "God Almight Buck"- whilst in the studio in London on the day that the USA agrees a compromise on the debt ceiling, Paul Mason will join our panel of counter-economists Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert who debate their assessment of the current world economic order - "a rigged, corrupt and exploitative system that damages the interests of ordinary people" with CSttT Danny Alexander.

    On the day that the McFall Report on pensions is published, NN reveals that consumers refusing to pay into pensions are right to live now and not bother with pensions at all because the costs and the benefits of personal pensions don't stack up unless you can accumulate a fund of £1m, below that figure you simply lose welfare benefits pound for pound - so why save at all?

    And with £50+k of student debt plus a big mortgage to pay and falling living standards, we ask Higher Education Minister and Tory policy guru David Willetts why if only a tiny fraction of the population can afford the level of pension contributions to receive a worthwhile pension, that the government bothers with the pretence of private provision anymore and should now accept that recent government policy has created a tidalwave of improvised older people who will now depend on welfare for their old age.

    Join your favourite presenter in your dreams @ 2230.


    PS The Crick is No More - Long Live the Crick - they didn't half airbrush him out quick - his blog has vanished already!



  • Comment number 80.

    MEANWHILE ON ANOTHER PLATFORM OVER THERE (Do you recall 'Broken News?) #79

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyuXY8QZjy8

    Nick Clegg has, personally, asked to come on NewsyNighty to make a statement.

    Clegg: "That Cameron is a recumbent orphan - and to think I sold my soul to be his No 2; and I use 'No 2' advisedly!"

    He then smashes up the studio and is restrained by semi-naked outsourced heavies from the 'Pussy Galore' agency.

    Nuff sed.

  • Comment number 81.

    #69 barrie

    Be careful now barrie...you may end up being branded an anrchist!

    Anrchists should be reported, advises Westminster anti-terror police
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/31/westminster-police-anarchist-whistleblower-advice

    PS - I seem to remember someone else on here branding you as an anrchist.

    PPS - It would appear that a certain word in this post doesn't get past the mod filter!

  • Comment number 82.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 83.

    BUT I HAVE ALREADY - DE FACTO - REPORTED MYSELF TO THE CHIEF CONSTABLE (#81)

    In my Quixotic fight to have the Liar Flyer ruled a false instrument - the Conservative Party (and Cameron by 'association') ruled 'bang out of order' - the 2010 election ruled void, and Clegg ruled an over-ambitious, priceless chump, I have lodged the Liar Flyer (in my real name) with Thames Valley police, INSIDE THE STATUTORY ONE YEAR. In the spirit of BIG SOCIETY, they have opted to do nothing, while my investigations proceed.

    I feel sure I am a marked man - whether as anarchist - seditionist - herbalist or vegetarian-rights activist. I am. of course, not permitted to say, in my sensitive condition.

    What term have you for an R-chist who reports HIMSELF to the police Five-O?

    An Oxymoron?

    I'll get me scruples.

  • Comment number 84.

    HAVE I GOT THIS RIGHT?

    A bunch of countries formed the UN. The UN decides, or agrees to, wallop a non-UN country, and calls for volunteer members to be violent. Thereby Billy the Spud gets to oversee the thumping of Libya and Dave gets to posture (some more).

    What if I and some of my neighbours form our own UN (United Nihilists) and contrive to see 'them at No 66' as a threat? The only thing stopping US from 'going down there' is that WE are not big enough to make our own laws.

    It's not civilisation or justice, is it. More like bullying.

  • Comment number 85.

    It is Monday 6.30pm and there is no info about tonight's programme. What is the meaning of this?

  • Comment number 86.



    Well..... We all should know the following is in the ‘public domain’ ......

    Mr Hague is paid £200k p.a. for a ‘column’ and - as posted before - Mr Johnson gets £250k p.a. which he readily acknowledges works out to £5k p.h.

    (Thought .... Did the circulation increase sufficiently - or more perhaps? - to cover the cost? Hmm! Just a thought! Please, please! Don’t let yourself think I’m being cynical! No chance! ..... Honest!) )

    A footballer is widely reported in the press to be earning 200k p.w.

    ( Just take a moment of your all-too-valuable time to read that last sentence again in case you missed the fact that that is £200,000 per week, not £200k per year. )

    Now ...... Perhaps the above might clarify the proposition that we are all in this “together”, but just in case you’re not absolutely 100 per cent clear ......

    A ‘Grandee’ and an ‘Advisor’ have offered suggestions sic as to where substantial savings could be made ‘in the nation’s best interest‘ i.e. pension reform, judicial reform etc etc. ( Is it relevant what their personal wealth or salary/ies might be? Perhaps not! )

    (Thought ..... Are these ‘verbal meanderings’ the start of the ‘classic’ - and increasingly used - political strategy of ‘broadcasting‘ extreme ideas thereby giving ‘those that be’ the opportunity to ‘roundly condemn‘ the ideas proffered whence ‘they‘ - ‘those that be’ - then introduce slightly, but only slightly, less draconian policies which have less ‘shock‘ value because the electorate is wildly grateful that the earlier ‘ideas‘ weren’t introduced [ Is that not what they call ‘Win, win ? ] )



    And then there’s the, not quite as widely known, case of the recently published profile of the business ‘high-flyer’ whom told the journo that most employment protection legislation e.g. maternity, equality, dismissal, race etc should be repealed. Somewhat thoughtfully the ‘high-flyer‘ let it be known that his contract of employment stipulated that were he to be “dismissed” - yes, they are quotation marks - from his post he would be entitled to two year’s of compensation payment ..... at £600k per year.

    “ .... together.”.... We go forward!



    Thought .... Would a Munchkin with selective amnesia i.e. can’t remember if it is remembered .... ever, now, be a future Wizard-ess of Oz?



    Today’s Today ....

    Early man-type eradicated by mass-migration of ‘invaders’.....


    Thought .... Now what was that Shirley Bassey and Propellor Heads song collaboration?

    398


  • Comment number 87.

    '85. At 18:40 1st Aug 2011, PGTips wrote:
    It is Monday 6.30pm and there is no info about tonight's programme. What is the meaning of this?


    Imagine you're in a cafe. You order a coffee and ask for it to be brought over. But the person doing the bringing over bit tells you to do it yourself as they are not playing. Which you do. And you have still paid for that aspect of the service. Now, they may not get any more money on top, but the cafe owner stills gets your money but you don't get the service.

    It's a bit like that.

    Only 'unique'.

  • Comment number 88.

  • Comment number 89.

    #85 and #87

    I think what Junkmail is trying to say is that there is no NN tonight as they are on strike..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-14358894

    May as well make our own NN here then, I managed to get Terry Smith of 'Tuley Prebon' who appeared on the Today prog on Friday to respond to me in his blog.


    http://www.terrysmithblog.com/


    Put forward as ' a voice of reason' from the financial sector with his 'no BS economic assessment' His analysis was sound ... amazingly so... refreshing even when compared to the garbage we have been spoon fed for ages from that sector yet I felt he was a tad defensive in his response, which took me by surprise.

    Did I hit a nerve?

    Is this the vanguard move from financial services to reel in stimulus before it goes too far and becomes counter-productive to them... they are ok now, position secured thanks to bailouts and QE.. time for reality to bite the population.....


    Or is he simply someone who likes to 'tell it how it is'.

    I honestly do not know and I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.... as long as he keeps responding to my questions that is.


    Would be interested in any feedback on the discussion.

  • Comment number 90.

    #81: the comments on that page says all.

    just like "Islamic Terrorist" in the media meant any Asian with a beard or modest fashion, who were unhappy about illegal invasions and occupations, so too presumably "Anarchist Terrorist" is anyone who is not entirely gruntled by the Condemn(ed) Coalition's economic, educational, or social "solutions".

    "Citizens of the UK, we are beset by problems external, and also internal treachery. If you hear someone in Public, or a friend or neighbour, or even a member of your family criticise the policies, or individuals of your freely elected Govt, then to protect the Rights and Liberties that Britons have had for generations, you MUST report such reason to the Police immediately. Be warned, if you do NOT do this, not only are you risking the totalitarian State of the USSR or China being imposed upo the UK, but you yourself will be investigated, to ensure your true loyalties!

    we only do this to protect those ancient freedoms, and make sure they are not abused. We ask the Public's support in this matter, and are looking at new legislation to make it mandatory. We shall leave NO stone unturned in our efforts to protect the Public, and expect the Public to reciprocate.

    All Hail The Chief,
    Year 2, New Cameron Era."

    this is... incredible. Is this a *real* world, or a bad dream? I can't tell anymore.

    - but Norway was real. And breivik certainly *wasn't* an anarchist. You need a strong State to build concentration camps, to murder millions of people.

    so who's next - pacifists? Animal lovers? Non-Tory voters? Nothing would surprise me now.

  • Comment number 91.

    #89: or just like those who fed from the hand of Murdoch, biting that hand as soon as they were sure there would be no comeback?

    i've also been writing about this online for many years, and there is little glory in being one of the few whose warnings were ignored, until the plunderers had taken their fill.


    but believe me, jeri, they are NOT safe, no matter how much QE they've stocked up their Swiss bank accounts with. Which might explain #81/#90.

  • Comment number 92.

  • Comment number 93.

    so glad picket lines were observed and not crossed, we posts should express solidarity and comment no further but respect struggle, victory to the BBC rank and file.....

  • Comment number 94.

    [beep beep, beep beep, beep beep, - "ah yes, police? I wish to report one of those anarchist types at #93! So... is there a reward?"

    ..."yes, yes i think he's dangerous, he is expressing something called "solidarity", not sure what it means, theSun only uses it about soldiers, perhaps he wants to blow something up, or shoot someone...?"

    "oh no no, i don't know him personally!"

    "so, about that reward...? oh, REALLY? :( "


    "umm, he also mentioned picketing, does tha..."

    "...yes, the bbc newsnight blog."

    "name of Steve."

    "well, thank you very much, and i'm glad to be of service to my Country, and the cause of Freedom. Will the cash be in a white plain envelope, or brown?"

    "and which Press outlet do you have your personal press-police contract with, should i use the same one in your opinion...?"

    "yes, it was a shame about tNotW, so i should just find another tabloid?"

    "well, thank you very much for your time, it was nice doing business. It is heart-warming to realise that the Govt and Police Forces are so concerned for our safety as citizens, and to keep 'wrong opinions' away from our innocent minds. Yes, indeed, i couldn't agree more. Hail to the Chief to you too. Bye!"

  • Comment number 95.

    sorry, steve. :)

  • Comment number 96.

    IT'S THE WRONG GROWTH GROMIT! (Today prog.)


    And STILL the pundits bang on about growth - close, but no hurrah!
    Until that growth yields stable, contented, wise individuals, all the Mammonic growth IN THE WORLD, will only make worse the BAD we have so far achieved. As many have quoted here: repeating what you did before, will only give you what you got before.

    Global economies, like cancers, grow without restraint. Both kill the host.

    I suggest wisdom is unique. It is boundless, consumes nothing, and protects the host in direct proportion to its growth.

    GROW THE YOUNG FOR WISDOM - RESTRAIN MAMMON - LAST CHANCE?

  • Comment number 97.

    WE BRITISH - A CUT ABOVE THE REST

    Just heard Woman's Hour agonising over FGM (female ------- mutilation) but what of LMT?

    Lung Mutilation by Tobacco, unlike FGM, is a STATE-CONDONED, taxed, commercial enterprise, not a fundamental cultural aberration (of which we have plenty also).

    Yet again, Christian Britain refuses to attend to the beam in its own eye.

    But be of good cheer, we still have the culture of 'BJF' to our credit, and Billy the Spud to direct our bombers ethically.

  • Comment number 98.

    '93. At 23:23 1st Aug 2011, stevie wrote:
    ... we posts should...


    Often get a bit eyebrow-cranky when I see the word 'we' invoked hereabouts, but when allied to a 'should' a nice example of free speech roaming, er, free.

    It's when the 'must' gets deployed, and especially when backed by the system editors, that things take a darker turn.

    Lack of comment voluntarily is one thing, one commenter telling others (irony free) that they should not another, but preventing comment entirely is the road to a very poor historical precedent.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hkcZilKChI

  • Comment number 99.

    IF READING RIGIDLY, IT'S A FAIR POINT JUNKK - BUT . . . (#98)

    Are WE not called upon, by virtue of years lived, to absorb the TENOR of the writing i.e. 'read' the writer's character (and their Cartman Factor) between the lines? Do people in face-to-face conversation, keep saying 'IMHO'?

    Oh dear - now I've written that, I realise I am not sure WHERE you stand Junkk. might you be sitting?

  • Comment number 100.

    TO THOSE POSTERS HERE WHO REMEMBER TWIRLING MONIKA

    I thought you might like to know: she is well. I have just had a highly instructive email: succinct and directional.

 

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