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Friday 1 July 2011

Sarah McDermott | 11:36 UK time, Friday, 1 July 2011

On the day that the Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari meets Prime Minister David Cameron, Richard Watson considers how secure Pakistan's nuclear weapons are - and whether the US might take pre-emptive steps to stop them falling into the hands of terrorists. We'll be joined by the Pakistani High Commissioner to Britain, Wajid Shamsul Hasan.

Former IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn has been released from house arrest amid doubts about the credibility of his accuser. We'll ask if he could still be a candidate for the French presidency - leading American lawyer Alan Dershowitz and DSK's biographer Michel Taubmann will discuss.

And we're keeping a close eye on the tennis - is Andy Murray's dream of a Wimbledon final dying?

Do join Kirsty at 2230 on BBC Two.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    the private sector was ALREADY decimated, rights and pensions, now 'they' are turning upon the public sectors rights and pensions.

    is it really a measure of "increasing productivity", the enormous increases in CEO pay, conditions and pensions, compared to the working majority? Can there be any doubt that as those benefit packages for the already privileged have increased dramatically (and with a inverse ratio to results, in most cases), those employed under them have seen their lifestyles stagnate at best - those whose jobs were not lost in "re-organisations" and "downsizing"?

    it just seems weird to me that we are supposed to respect and pay high salaries to the very people that are asset stripping our country, - and are doing so very energetically and inventively.

  • Comment number 2.

    ---the difference between a conquering army, and a liberating army.


    Afghanistan. There are great differences in behaviour between a conquering army, and a liberating army. A liberating army comes to remove a hated dictatorship, but afterwards it helps the locals to rebuild. The soldiers generally learn the local language, because the people are to be their friends, and that makes it easier. It is to be encouraged, but not forced, as that creates resentment amongst the troops. The soldiers in a liberating army find out what the locals want that they can help with (usually rebuilding/improving infra-structure at first, roads, buildings, water, transport, energy), and the soldiers are the ones passing the information back, to get the resources that the afghans need to rebuild. To build, use local labour as much as possible, and try to form skill co-ops, so all money from the re-construction goes into the local economies - and as a bonus for this benevolence, there would also be an instant market for certain easily repairable Home goods, maybe bicycles, or hand-wound radios, for instance, along with low/medium technical improvements, suitable for the Afghan market, to improve the livelihoods and lives of the locals, in ways they can maintain for themselves.

    the core aim of a Liberating army is to improve the material, social and political lives of the inhabitants, it comes with olive branches to the people, it listens to them, and it behaves as well as we would want foreign soldiers in our own country to behave.


    now let's look at Iraq. The iraqi democratic opposition was told democracy could wait, the natural resources were literally occupied, and were fought over by various factions within Washington, the Oil lobby clashing with the hawkish neo-cons about how the iraqi oil industry would be organised and sold, the 'president' strutted about on an aircraft carrier, most contracts were awarded entirely without oversight, on a cost-plus basis, a vast, mega-$Bn US Corporate gluttony charge led by Halliburton, the Vice-President's former employer. There was no meaningful dialogue with the Iraqi people, nor was there meant to be - the US elite already knew which corrupt power-brokers they would support, democracy go to hell.

    so then tactics were used to create political division, acts blamed on "insurgents" - actually often western agents trying to factionalise the country, - a tactic being used now by the Egyptian govt to break the concordat between the opposition to that ongoing dictatorship. In Iraq, this succeeded dramatically well, the tensions of decades of repression, followed by Gulf War 1 and the use of nuclear and chemical weaponry that left devastating effects upon the surviving Iraqi population, followed by 10 more years of sanctions that prevented basic human needs in Iraq being fulfilled - no repairs for water treatment plants, no pain-killers (not even for the thousands of cancer patients caused by the use of depleted uranium shells and left poisoning the air and sand), over half a million dead children alone, figures accepted for the sanctions by the US Secreatry of State.

    then they were invaded again, and this time were occupied directly by the US under Cheney and Bush. What would you do? So 'divide and conquer' was introduced, and civil war induced!

    And very soon the Iraqis were slaughtering each other, instead of working together and building consensus and democracy.

    why? Because a conquering army does not come to liberate.

    ---

  • Comment number 3.

    afghanistan:


    we should stay to finish the job - and the job, as we were led to believe, was to improve the conditions for the Afghan people. The difference is how our civil/military policy in Afghanistan made it plain to the afghans what we were about. Please read above post.

    btw, i do NOT blame our actual fighting troops for what has happened - they were placed in circumstances i do not think many of them would have freely chosen, even if "it is a rush" for some of them. The happiest you see the soldiers is when they are interacting freely with some Afghans, because there is no risk (or little), and they can be liberation people, not occupying soldiers.

    mos of the service-personnel who have died - they would have LOVED to backpack to a peaceful Afghanistan, like back in the 60s. Did you know Afghanistan used to be on the old Hippy-Trail? Only so few decades ago. And then the Russians invaded. Before we have, again. And same old policies as last times, almost the same headlines. Afghanistan chews up conquering armies, always has. George Bush knew that, - and if he didn't his foreign-policy advisers certainly did.

    what needs to be tried, if we are to accomplish what we as a People, and our incredibly brave soldiers believed we were intending, is to Liberate Afghanistan.

    leaving now, leaving Afghanistan with a Karzai govt - it is THAT corrupt, it is impossible that it can command the loyalty of the Afghan people, bad even as the Taliban are.

    the UK might find it hard to come up with the money, but an increase in the Afghan aid budget - and prioritising local construction, well paid, and small scale investments through a trustable local infrastructure - may not only save many of our soldiers lives, save the Afghan peoples from the misery of more religious totalitarianism, start the process of moving to a well run Afghan civil society, -- and make the terrible sacrifices by ALL parties involved, especially the Afghanis themselves, in some way worthwhile.


  • Comment number 4.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 5.

    i wonder if david cameron has yet realised that EVERY policy advice that has come out of george osbourne has been deeply flawed, and his meddling in the recent Justice débâcle, attempting to adjust policy to please the right-wing tabloids, has, as said by the audience of Questiontime, led to a decent policy being scrapped, and the Justice secretary reduced to creating a media feeding frenzy, - over 'something' that is actually nothing at all, the 'reasonable defence' policy-tweak.


    some really good moments from tonight’s QT: It has almost becoming a debating chamber between the Audience and Sir Dimbleby, with many panellists apparently on simply to be the court jesters!!

    the middle-aged Anglo-german in the audience got the pensions debate exactly right. Pensions are an investment and a saving for the future, and the true problem is the lack of pensions in the Private Sector; as many others in the audience also said on this topic. You can almost see the spin unravelling, and what is revealed about those in political power in the UK is far less than edifying.

    like the way the continuous stream of fertiliser from big3£ is so readily perceived through, and good quality comments highly appreciated, both from panel and Audience.

    toynbee was great tonight. :)


    good turnout from the unions, and very nice to see the Public not buying the whole “unions are enemies of the people” once again being force-fed us by tory press.


    ----

  • Comment number 6.


    breaking news: the Queen has just announced she is to adopt a modified Shariah/Pagan Law, and take a second husband, widely rumoured to be in his early 20s. The statement said it was purely for sexual reasons, and also to introduce the multi-cultural reforms of her eldest son.

    She did not intend to sue Twitter over any future Tweets, merely requested her privacy be respected, as should everybodys.

    -tabloid editors made a delegation to the Prime Minster to plead for him to start a war, anywhere, for the next day's front-pages.

    cameron informed Iceland they were lagging in the Human Rights record, but Volcano stopped play.


    at 4pm, ....

  • Comment number 7.

  • Comment number 8.

    grossman superb on the teacher's strike, especially discovering the Condemn(ed) are apparently breaking the public service workers rights, at least partly in order to make the services more “attractive to private purchase” - in other words to exploiters, rather than the staff themselves (who would naturally have more concern over their wages, conditions and pensions). This is a move towards further privatisation programs, it is not about “saving money”, as we have learned, it is not about “fairness” - because the truly fair thing would be to reintroduce requirements for contributions to private sector worker from employers, and stop the vast burden of govt to private-sector pension contributions ending up in the pockets of the already wealthy, rather than the least-paid workers where they were originally intended.

    So what IS it about, Mr Cameron? All these attacks upon the living standards and rights of the majority??


    now here's a thought that just struck me: many people know “the bankers” were reviled before the second world war – but how many know why? Perhaps our ancestors across Europe and America had more sense of reality than we had previously thought. And I don't think they meant the normal staff working in the branches, either.


    Why is it, listening to the UK union leaders and Govt on QT and NN from last night, I have the feeling of deja-vu recalling the situation of Israel and Palestine?

  • Comment number 9.

  • Comment number 10.

  • Comment number 11.

    lovely sunny weather outside, again.

  • Comment number 12.

  • Comment number 13.

    I DO WISH CAMERON WOULD NOT EMBARRASS ME ABROAD

    During the General Election, we had the expensive poster campaign, with his prettified face claiming to be safeguarding the NHS. Yeah right. We had the 'Liar Flyer' using the Brown Bogey-Man ploy - that if we didn't vote Conservative IN SPECIFIC CONSTITUENCIES - Bogey Brown would return, like The Mummy, for 5 more long years; totally unfounded. Then we had Dave's nasty stamp on the NO campaign, in the AV referendum, wherein he vilified Nick to a degree only a public schoolboy could stomach, while blaming nebulous others like a - well - a - public schoolboy. And there's more.

    Do we want this posturing Prime Ninny, with a track record of such impropriety (a kind word), representing ordinary hard-working families to Johnnie Foreigner? There must be dozens of simple, nice individuals, who would do the job better?

    Nuff sed.

  • Comment number 14.

    #7: reducing vehicle emissions means reducing engine size - smaller cars instead of RVs, for instance. This means less oil consumed, means (at least) greater energy security for the US. Equally, building renewable energy sources not only creates employment, it *also* increases energy security. In essence, it is efficiency and diversification. What's the beef with that?

    as for political shenanigans to get some things done, that is partly because it gives opportunity to make a quick buck for insiders, and also because the US political system has become such a morass of special interest groups, that such measures have to be taken to get anything done to benefit the Country as a whole.

    couple of interesting quotes from the link;

    "Global warming phony science is generated out of the UK's Hadley Center in East Anglia, that houses the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). This is also the seat of the 'Climategate' scandal that thoroughly discredited their carbon lies and flawed science."

    umm no, it just revealed that scientists are not 'spocks', and had human failings too. It was just a couple of emails, intemperate comments, and academic high-horsedness. The actual "climategate" itself was extremely limp, even if it has become a slogan for the "fossil fuel all the way" crowd.

    "ALL of the states who participated in this lawsuit are signatories to treasonous international UN inspired treaties."

    treason is a strong word. It was also used by GWB against those who opposed his wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. If building energy security, and even improving environmental considerations is now "treason", i feel very sorry for the sane people in the US. We may not hear from them much, but they are there.

  • Comment number 15.

    @#10 - so only left wing people think climate change is happening? A ridiculous, simplistic, tabloid-america claim, and ensures i won't bother watching it, brossen.


    and presumably the Chinese are investing so massively in renewables in order to tank their economy?? After all "every green job costs 5 others", yet apparently not in China. Or maybe they think that "fact" is fertiliser, because they are not stupid. Who knows what they think? But they certainly don't regard Green energy as "left-wing", that's for sure.

  • Comment number 16.

    british jobs for british migrants

    the tories do not understand the market is there to produce profit not social services or social engineering.

    why is millions of the uk workforce so unemployable?

    migrants produce wealth rather than consume it so they are 'a china' in miniature. however the wealth they create at least 50% is shipped abroad so they are net drain on the uk.

    wealth in the uk comes from tapping into public money like the millionaire landowners who get 4 billion a year public subsidy [ring fenced] for merely being rich enough to own land.

  • Comment number 17.

    15

    china is one of the major recipients of the billions in carbon taxes levied upon us. communism is good when funded by capitalists [useful idiots as lenin said]

  • Comment number 18.

  • Comment number 19.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 20.

  • Comment number 21.

    Mork #15 Try again as its all fact even though the BBC might want to hide it !

    As for China and renewables its obviously better than nothing for remote rural areas but the Chinese leader guy looked pretty hacked off the other day when he was forced to listen to Cameron blathering on about carbon capture and storage. Furthermore,the combined EU eco-fascists ( and Cameron supporting them ) have almost certainly cost the UK economy the RR engines and the wings for the new fleet of Airbus planes Hong-Kong airlines were expected to order at a trade fair the other week.

  • Comment number 22.

  • Comment number 23.

  • Comment number 24.

  • Comment number 25.

    "british jobs for british workers"

    We've massively devalued our currency - now we come up with slogans like this - both are backdoor protectionism, a demand illegal under fair employment and free market rules. The truth is that the globalised free market is rigged against the British manufacturing so we can't compete, personally or as a nation - the free market is a contradiction and a delusion.

    Today's industrial figures are the writing on the wall for the faint hope that there is going to be growth in the UK in the foreeable future - IDS is right - without serious protectionism UK PLC is never going to do anything about its long term unemployed - so without groeth and a shinking welafre bill, we are heading for the Greek economic trap.

    But this is a coalition government - the LibDems won't agree to immigration curbs or leaving the EU's libertarian free market - the Tories are therefore powerless to move to the nationalist rightwing agenda of IDS, even if Cameron did yet another U turn on immigration.

    Without growth, falling debt and rising employment the next election spells armageddon for the LibDems - they will be wiped out. Its fascinating to see how the rightwing of the Tories now begins to see that there is no choice but to impose protectionist policies, aligning their assessment of the problem with the left which wants to end globalisation and run the UK economy for full employment and self-sufficiency.

    Surely the LibDems must now see their destruction staring them in the face? The party which overwhelmingly rejected the libertarian Orange Book policies sneaked into government via the back door of the Coalition Agreement directly against their official manifesto of slower, less deep spending cuts now needs to pull the plug on Clegg and his sidekicks to stand any chance of remaining a serious political force in thr UK, or be consigned to the wilderness for another five generations.

    IMHO I'm now entirely convinced that Nick Clegg knows what the outcome will be and is already negotiating his betrayal of his party to joing the Tories. Will the rank and file LibDems simply stand by and allow themselves to be shafted?

    Go not gently into that goodnight, but rage, rage against the dying of the light...

  • Comment number 26.

    brossen an interesting item on south east news today. At the coldest part of this winter the brand new and biggest wind farm off Thanet, was only working at a third of it's capacity, the same applies to the one off Whitstable as well. BUT the owners were still being paid, by us, the same amount of money for two thirds less energy. It was to do with pressure, high I believe, which made no wind at all, perfectly still they stood. And again it was stated we are having less wind in britain, and had the lowest wind ratios in the last year for donkeys years. Good this "green" energy innit?!

  • Comment number 27.

    Best of the evening was Kirsty's interview with Dershowitz (fantastic to see him on NN) & Taubmann discussing DSK's case.
    :p ....and could there be another war brewing? This time Pakistan v USA et al?

    Since Jeremy's doing a state of the union special on Monday, perhaps he should take Kirsty's advice and wear a kilt ;o)

  • Comment number 28.

  • Comment number 29.

  • Comment number 30.

    #25 richard

    Its the employment agencies employing all the immigrants, get them paying 50 quid a week to live nine to a two up two down terraced house as part of the overall deal to get the job !

  • Comment number 31.

    A NEW PARABLE

    There was once an island ('a piece of land surrounded by tides') whose people were told, by the priesthood, that they should harness clean, natural energy. And the moon rose and set.

    The priesthood said of wind generators, "I you build them it will blow" and soon the towers towered everywhere. And the moon rose and set.

    Hidden away, in the wild and primitive Northern Lands, the natives girded their kilts, put down their stone axes, and worked on tidal power - the priesthood saw it as blasphemous, and ignored them. And the moon rose and set.

    Then the wind stopped blowing - but the moon was constant . . .

    The priesthood said: "GOD HAS SPOKEN - ER - IN THE WIND - HE WANTS NUCLEAR AFTER ALL."

    And the moon rose and set. . .

    I'll get me beads.

  • Comment number 32.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hJQ18S6aag

    Sorry, but someone had to...........

    I've selected a window, got my coat....................... Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • Comment number 33.

    BRITISH CULTURE: CORRUPTION INTERWOVEN WITH ALCOHOL = PERVERSITY

    Have you heard the amazing news? People drink alcohol and - through lack of sober care - initiate house fires. Wow - the things we are 'finding out'.

    They will discover next, that alcohol is the drug of 'Just Say Yes' to greater addiction, violence, crime, body-rot and pregnancy.

    Then they will discover that Parliament (and 'enjoyment') are fuelled by alcohol and that Any Questions audiences find the whole subject funny.

    What might the Muslim view be?

    Nuff sed.

  • Comment number 34.

    #21: "As for China and renewables its obviously better than nothing for remote rural areas but the Chinese leader guy looked pretty hacked off the other day when he was forced to listen to Cameron blathering on about carbon capture and storage."

    didn't see it, but i'm not surprised. Its an untested system, that in some projections will take a great deal of the energy created just to store the waste product - and will be very hard to monitor anyway. The Chinese are aiming for an economy based entirely upon Green technology, and as quickly as possible. They understand the great dangers of carbon release, and they also understand the dangers of complete reliance upon oil, and are putting their tremendous energy and resources towards investment in renewables - that they came to Europe ***TO INVEST*** in such technology indicates they are taking a Global lead upon this as well.

    this is a drive for human survival.

    i cannot think of a worst possible outcome for the UK that, due almost entirely to the incompetence and bad leadership of this Govt, the UK lost the possibility of many £Bns worth of direct investment in a brand new manufacturing industry, from the one country whose currency is pretty secure. There are not many such offers in the real world.

    [i had posted on this matter in #4]

    "Furthermore,the combined EU eco-fascists ( and Cameron supporting them ) have almost certainly cost the UK economy the RR engines and the wings for the new fleet of Airbus planes Hong-Kong airlines were expected to order at a trade fair the other week."

    i have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't watched any of your videos yet.


    #25 richard: "british jobs for british workers",

    unfortunately i have also used this, a far better slogan is "British companies for British workers", reflecting the necessary change with regards to ownership. A change that was written into the early EU Social Chapter, where companies above a certain size were mandated to have representation of the workforce on the Board, and also to distribute shares amongst them.

    the figures for "employment creation" obviously reflect the "down-waging" of the UK economy, just as in the American media, much is always made of how *MANY* jobs are created, but with extraordinarily little research and publication of what *KIND* of jobs are being created - usually low-paid, low security jobs, with no pension rights, and darned few employment rights. And this is true whether native, immigrant, or migrant.

    that this is true both of New Labour's "employment figures/job creation", and the current Condemn(ed) "employment figures/job creation" statistics and press releases. Which just goes to show how much you can trust either of them - and how basically similar they are.

    is it not notable how many of these companies seeking to "compete" in the Public service areas of the economy are american/foreign corporations, or sly operators intending to turn a quick profit once they can sell later?

    migrants, especially young migrant workers, will often go home, settle down and be very successful - because they had the courage and the will to go exploring abroad, make lots of contacts, and learned how to deal with different cultures and situations. These successful people, if they enjoyed the time they spent in a host country, will naturally think of that country in their later lives positively, and over the long run that country that hosted them benefits tremendously. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of Poles now back in Poland that have *very* strong views of the British/Britain - both positive and negative, no doubt. For generation the UK has been a 'coming of age' travel/work ritual for Australians, Canadians, Scandinavians, South Africans and Kiwis - and thereby our cultural connections with these places is so much stronger, to ALL our benefits. The Israeli Kibbutz system, with its foreign volunteers, not only helped feed Israel for decades, but spread Israel's influence far afield.

    the problem with the UK economy is there is too much exploitation, too little protection for workers rights, so when the migrants came, 'employers' could force down wages for the 'workers'. There should be discussion about the gross incompetence of a National Govt that allowed a growth of 2-3% migrant influx, without also putting resources into the social infrastructure in the places affected, but that is hardly the migrants fault. You hardly need to be a genius to work out that the migrants would have preferred the higher wages as well, and they were just as much victims of the exploitation.

    [i'm looking at the sun, and being annoyed i'm inside writing this....]

    richard, i'm going to write a long reply to you on that post (i hope you take that as a promise, and not a threat), but that Sun is just too wonderful right now.... ;)

  • Comment number 35.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 36.

    kirsty mangling questions to foreigners is so funny. its like she is so in love with talking she doesn't want to stop so keeps adding multiple sub clauses. someone should do a ytube vid of kirsty asking questions.


    tennis

    maybe someone should look into drug use in tennis before saying people don't get 'angry enough'? maybe people who are clean aren't 'stimulated' enough?

  • Comment number 37.

    NEWSYNIGHTY COULD LEARN FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME (#36)

    'Today' instituted the 'JOLLITY MINUTE' a while back; intervals when they all talk over each other and laugh a lot.

    Just what NN needs. I could abandon both then.

  • Comment number 38.

    I enjoy watching Kirsty present NN. She is a very thorough interrogator, and her interviews often exposed ministers’ lack of knowledge on the subjects of the night (e.g. pension debate on Thursday). Another thing I would say is I can’t watch soaps like EastEnders without the subtitle, but I can understand Ms Wark perfectly. She does talk fast when she is challenged by unruly interviewees, but I think that comes with experience and gravitas.

  • Comment number 39.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 40.

    Go on YT and search Max Keiser speaks to lawyers in Athens ?????

  • Comment number 41.

  • Comment number 42.

    34

    Thanks for that - agree with your sentiment. It's interesting how economies like Germany & France were sneeringly criticised for being "rigid" and "old fashioned" because they believe in the tripartite system of govt, employers and workers working together in the national interest with much greater job security - the UK is supposed to have a "flexible" labour market i.e. one with much less protection for employees. In reality this has meant that come the recession, its our jobs that go first, whilst in the tripartite type economies they keep their jobs. In a boom the opposite is true - our economy overheats as employers drive up wages to hire people to maximise production because they know they can sack them as soon as the boom peaks.

    We therefore have the worst of both worlds - and with a backdrop now of falling living standards and rising unemployment, jobs at the lower end are VERY badly paid and exploitative, that's why we were awash with Poles etc now anyone able to claim welfare support is going to be in a pretty similar position as someone doing a lousy job like picking potatoes in Norfolk @ winter for min. wages, without the physical pain involved.

    IDS used to think that his work programme was going to deliver - but this will only be true if there are real jobs out there - I don't think there will be and in rural/depressed areas its going to be a non starter because the unemployed literally won't be able to get to mentors, placements etc as there is now no bus service left and the few that do run are unaffordable.

    We simply cannot go on having our manufacturing done in China and pay for our imports by ever bigger debt. Retailers have to be told that they will face import taxes unless they start selling UK made goods.

    We've already had three protectionist policies from the ConDems recently:

    1. Devaluation of Sterling - makes imports more expensive and exports more competitive - only possible because we're not in the Euro and frowned upon by those that are.
    2. British Jobs for British Workers - totally illegal under EU free market laws.
    3. Vince Cable's remarks about procurement of trains - another thinly veiled implied illegal breach of EU competition law.

    Nothing GO has announced is going to generate growth & jobs and unless he does something and soon, we'll be back in recession , the tax take will fall and welfare costs will rise, which will cause a BIGGER debt not pay it off, and we'll slide into the debt trap that has the PIIGS locked in a spiral of cuts and recession.

  • Comment number 43.

  • Comment number 44.

    TWO INCONVENIENT TRUTHS

    1) This planet, in common with the others in the Solar System, is locked into a dynamic interaction with the Sun, that is PRIMARILY electro-magnetic.

    2) The recent interglacial period, has allowed a 'global' ethos to emerge in which a RELATIVE FEW EXTREMISTS now have GLOBAL AMBITION. They have no VALID claim to dominance, just maniacal drive.

    Where once a witch-doctor might claim smoke from a rival's cooking fire has caused an eclipse, we now have would-be Kings of the World telling us that our CO2 has power greater than the forces inherent in the Solar System. Oh dear.

    Underlying it all, is the way our minds function - suited to small units with underlying animal hierarchies. It looks as if we shall reap the whirlwind - one way or another.

    One thing is sure: extreme men always rise to power. It is their PERSONALITIES which then dictate their POLICIES - under which a great many (relatively) quiescent souls must suffer. 'Twas ever thus.

    I'll get me Almanac.

  • Comment number 45.

    OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF ACOLYTES AND GROUPIES (#43)

    What a knack you have for ingenuous revelation 76!

    NEWSYNIGHTY BELONGS TO YOU! The cult-of-individual presenters, the son et lumiere 'numbers' (aka reports) and the triumph of style over substance, are all suited to an elite, which, from your posts, I deduce that YOU EPITOMISE.

    Those who used to come to Newsnight (before the de rigueur 'Ys' cried out for insertion, yielding NEWSYNIGHTY) have fled - literally FLED; fingers in ears, eyes tight shut. It was ALL TOO MUCH.

    I, being combative by nature, have hung on waiting for the whole charade to implode, but this is The Age of Perversity; it is not going to happen.

    Lord Patten seems to think the BBC is magnificent. Et tu Pâté?

  • Comment number 46.

  • Comment number 47.

    CHRIS AGREES WITH ME (#46 link)

    "I'm afraid we are in the hands of very dangerous children, upon whose deranged wishful thinking a large part of our country's future depends."

    Westminster is an aberrant organism that 'draws its own'. IN THE LAND OF THE SKEWED, THE UTTERLY ABERRANT MAN IS KING. Political juveniles have a whole nation to dominate and a world to mess with. Being children they POKE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS. We are their ants-nest. They only get away with their childishly inept behaviour, BECAUSE WE ARE FAST ASLEEP.

    SPOILPARTYGAMES - DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - NOW URGENT

  • Comment number 48.


    Prosecutors Back Off From Their ‘Iron-Clad’ Case Against Strauss-Kahn
    http://www.vdare.com/roberts/110702_strauss_kahn.htm

    ‘Those few who actually care about justice, not only for DSK and everyman, but also for the Greek, Spanish, Irish, and Portuguese people, can find comfort in the fact that apparently DSK had come to New York in order to speak with Nobel economist Joe Stiglitz about a more humane and democratic way to resolve the sovereign debt crisis in Europe than the one imposed by the private creditor banks.'

  • Comment number 49.


    Just who is supporting Greece? Why does Greece have the 28th largest defence budget in the world at 9.3 billion euros? Why is defence being cut by only 300 million euros and social security by over 1 billion.

    Are Greeks rioting to demand that their government keeps buying guns?

    Think about the economic occupiers and their sneering contempt for democracy and the silence of the media.

  • Comment number 50.

    Barrie you're getting through!!! Even Boris has said the government is acting "perversly"!!!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/8613088/Boris-derails-Camerons-perverse-34billion-high-speed-link.html

  • Comment number 51.

    FOR EVIL TO PROSPER IT IS NECESSARY TO ENSURE NO MORE GOOD MEN ARE RAISED.

    There is a book titled: COURAGE TO RAISE GOOD MEN (by Olga Silverstein) I suggest the title says much of our times. A combination of the 'equality' fad and denigration of motherhood as 'time out', allied to mind-numbing education x 3, has just about completed the annihilation of 'The Good Man'; the only effective men left - are woe-men.

    The way is open for 'evil' to flourish.

  • Comment number 52.

    GOOD MEN ARE ABSENT - MIGHT ECCENTRICS BE THE NEXT BEST THING? (#50)

    Cheers Lizzy. "MAKE NO MISTAKE" (I got that from Barack) I MEAN to get through (the accent is on MEAN) and will do a lot of damage when I do. Ever since I was incarcerated in the school system, being lorded over by small-of-being, hypocritical men, has been a deep anathema to me. Being treated with contempt by PETTY POLITICIANS reaps a SPECIAL KIND OF RESPONSE. And being studiously rebuffed by the offices, and officers, of Westminster, I intend to prove as their BIG MISTAKE.

    I was once maltreated by a high street Building Society. I was led a merry dance in exchanges over the niceties of interest-only mortgages. Ultimately, they just refused to treat further. The Ombudsman, decided their niceties were 'how it is done' (an enduring phrase) BUT THEY HAD TO PAY ME FOR THEIR CONTEMPT. I intend WESTMINSTER WILL PAY US ALL FOR CONTEMP.

    Meanwhile, Boris will have to do - along with Prince Charles (I have appealed to the Queen, to no avail) who I gather might qualify as another useful eccentric?

    Do people not wonder what Dave teaches his children? The prettified poster? The vilification of his natural chum-in-Coalition? The law-breaking Liar Flyer? IT'S ALL ON THE WEB KIDS!

    In passing: every time we GET OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE it is abundantly clear they are obsessed with LEGACY. Normal folk are not. Is Crossrail in that category? I know Dodgy Dave has redefined the 'U-Turn' (aka 'getting it wrong') as a managerial art/triumph, but he might be desperate for something more substantial to leave behind. Mind you: for a man who has 'left behind' just about all that is good in a humanity, and trampled anything half-decent, I guess his legacy is secure.

    SPOILPARTYGAMES - DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - NOW URGENT

  • Comment number 53.

    '43. At 09:58 3rd Jul 2011, Mistress76uk wrote:
    :o( I am shocked!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2010720/BBCs-fears-Newsnight-viewers-hit-time-low.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


    B...but... the market rate talents have improved everything! It's all faster, cheaper, more interactive... and better. I know this because I have been told I agree. Apparently.

    Hence the currently most popular comment on that thread seems... apposite.

    Just.. don't tell... The Editors.

  • Comment number 54.

    Ah thanks Junkk, I'd missed Mistress post, I think I agree with the popular comment as well, looks as though many are fed up with the left wing bias at the beeb. I can't say more or I'd be censored.

    I wondered why this blog had become so quiet, people just don't like the beebs point of view.

  • Comment number 55.

    With actions like this our NHS (or is that the IHS) will disappear and we will become like the USA and have to pay private insurance to cover our health care

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2010934/Milking-health-service-NHS-pays-200k-Nigerian-health-tourists-babies-provides-free-IVF-single-mother-39.html

  • Comment number 56.

    'PERVERSE' IS SUCH A MILD WORD (#55)

    We need a 'Democracy Ombudsman'. The monarchy is so powerless, that if the Coalition felt the need to disband it, the Queen would approve her own removal in 'her' speech to Parliament. And Westminster is so corrupt, with the party system a pretence, and politicians whipped 'rosette votes', refusing to acknowledge electoral criminality, some new, higher authority is desperately needed. Only Westminster is OUTSIDE THE LAW.

    It is illustrative of the inherent corruption of Westminster that they have long tried to keep oversight 'in House' and have never put in place a people's watchdog. They set up oversight of other powerful bodies - willy nilly. There is little doubt those honourable men and woe-men have much to protect and hide.

    DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER

  • Comment number 57.

    BOO-BOO MEMOIRS ASSERT PARK-RANGER HAD HIGH REGARD FOR YOGI

    Chilcot to re-open enquiry to investigate sexing-up.

  • Comment number 58.

    55. At 23:53 3rd Jul 2011, ecolizzy -
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2010934/Milking-health-service-NHS-pays-200k-Nigerian-health-tourists-babies-provides-free-IVF-single-mother-39.html


    With Dilnot unleashing the 'right-on' expert chatterati of hell to our screens to tell us all that's needed is more tax and more money to deal with the money taken from our elderly over decades being squandered on 'stuff', another 'most liked' Daily Mail commenter raises an interesting point on the systems we 'enjoy', and who 'runs' them using all these vast funds.

    Why... are folk allowed to get in a position to abuse the generosity of spirit inherent in our social society, when clearly there are often simple, quick and cheap mechanisms on hand to say, literally or figuratively... 'on yer bike'.

    We seem to have a priority deficit in this country's higher politico-media echelons, along with integrity, competence, etc.

    But ture, they were at least smart enough to gold-plate featherbed their own nests first.

  • Comment number 59.

    COMETH THE HOUR . . . (#58)

    We all know now (if not before)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13919120

    that the perversity of the Blair regime, set the seal on this country's coming implosion. (And the Campbell version of reality still haunts/taunts us, as a reminder.)

    It is said: "Cometh the hour, cometh THE MAN” - how ironic that the adoring acolytes of the Blair Illusion called him "THE MAN" - almost Messianic - and now he would be BLAIR OF JERUSALEM. God may have a sense of humour after all.

    With wisdom, and integrity, now recycled as beer mats for use in Westminster bars, and Good Men replaced by charismatic blaggers, even a suicidal psychopath would not start from here.

    Meanwhile we work to fix this archetypal malaise by 'moving small pieces of green paper about' (Douglas Adams) and wrecking lives, and lands, of those who have no means, or friends, to fight back effectively.

    COMETH NOT ONE MAN WORTHY OF THE NAME.

  • Comment number 60.

    #58

    Without a cohenrent aspirational national vision we are left wallowing around in our desires and any thing beyond the satisfaction of those desires becomes meaningless.

    Hence the erosion of social cohesion and common purpose among the populus without which the establishment will not be able to cope.

    By example.

    I use a regular 'indian' (actually pakistani) takeaway / restaurant near us. I started to note that the staff seems to be rotated about every 6 months and a completely new set of faces appear, then the old faces re-appear maybe 1 or 2 years later.

    It seems plausible (lets say for legal reasons) that the owner uses staff on a 'fly in, fly out' basis, not long enough to be risky from immigration point of view but just long enough for all his staff to work for peanuts (and be grateful for it) completely outside the tax system.

    I would guess he provides food, lodgings (10 to a house or something) and a chunk of cash upon departure (maybe a thousand pounds for 6 months hard work lets say). All the staff are very friendly and seem really happy as well....

    This is a good deal for them and I get cheap tasty food and v good service for my ££.

    What I should do as a 'concerned and engaged citizen' is make a call to immigration alerting them to my suspicions so that this black market operation which deprives the Uk of revenues is shut down.

    But I do not.

    Why?

    Well, I have no reason to, I dont blame them for what they are doing. On a human level , if I were in thier shoes I would probably do the same, and they come accross as simple, friendly nice people to deal with who provide much better service than I am used to and are clearly happy to work hard.

    If I call immigration and alert them to my unsubstantiated suspicions all the above gets trashed.

    Worse still.

    They get shut down, the community loses the restaurant, 10's of thousands of ££ (probably) get spent in investigations, detentions, legal fees and deportations way beyond any impact thier activities would have had on the economy and alot of people are made miserable as a result... not a morally or financially (as ataxpayer) attractive option....

    There is no 'big picture' to motivate me to be 'public spirited' in this regard, if i 'dob them in' the only people that benefit are lawyers and civil servants who get to charge fees / justify thier existence respectively at my expence for what exactly??.

    '' building jerusalem in Englands green and pleasant land maybe'' ?

    It is, as a system, entirely dysfunctional.

    We pay our own people (on benefits) more to do nothing than the workers in the restaurant cost society as working illegals (in terms of value return to contributing uk citizens).

    The changes required to reconcile the dysfunctionality are absolutely massive and way beyond the wildest dreams of the limited philosophies of our incumbent political class...


    ahh why do i bother.






  • Comment number 61.

    MULTICULTURAL MAMMON (#60)

    One for the Moral Maze there Jericoa! I prefer a 'white' chippy where 'the bloke' 'gets' all my banter and I don't have to re-English his Manglish; so the dilemma does not arise.

    But a shrewd observation on your part, and a well written ponder.

    We are Stage One Balkanised. God help us when stage two breaks out. Just who will be abusing, torturing, raping and killing who?

    Spoilt for choice.

  • Comment number 62.

    NO NEW BLOG YET AGAIN!

    its 1530 and no new blog have been posted to let us know what's in tonight's programme - the blog header on the NN main page invites you to CLICK HERE TO FIND OUT WHAT'S IN TONIGHT'S PROGRAMME - in reality all it does is take you to the stale fag end of the last programme - in this case THREE DAYS old.

    Perhaps the Moderator could elbow the Programme Editor in the ribs to wake him/her up for us?

  • Comment number 63.

    52. At 16:59 3rd Jul 2011, barriesingleton
    60. At 11:13 4th Jul 2011, Jericoa wrote:

    Ahh why do I bother?


    To paraphrase a saying, maybe because things might get worse if good folk don't?

  • Comment number 64.

    i'm sorry it took so long Richard, i've been trying to focus upon other, more heart related matters recently.

    "We've massively devalued our currency - now we come up with slogans like this - both are backdoor protectionism, a demand illegal under fair employment and free market rules. "


    yes we've devalued our currency, the bet was that the military power of the US, with poodle Britain under the arm (hopefully), would force other countries to continue to purchase the $ in sufficient quantities to maintain purchasing power despite mass printings. The same Bush-era team came up with the idea that Georgia could withstand a mid-scale mobilisation and attack by Russia to defend the South Ossetian people from Georgia's assault. The New Labour foreign secretary at the time was clearly working for them, when he immediately came out and claimed Russia attacked first, a claim denied AT THE SAME TIME by the BBC correspondents actually in Georgia. By printing more money, the actual debt becomes worth less because there is more of that currency - it is being devalued. Equivalent to debasing the coinage in ancient times. And a true "free market" would tend to favour good worker rights, which is why the Corporates aim for monopoly.


    "The truth is that the globalised free market is rigged against the British manufacturing so we can't compete, personally or as a nation - the free market is a contradiction and a delusion.""

    it can perhaps be more accurately seen as being rigged against local British manufacturing, in favour of the multi-nationals. I would agree with you that there IS a possible free market (such as mondragon), but what we have had for 30 years is somewhat the opposite of that, the imposition of privatised, highly-centralised Corporate control, that is now leading some politicians to reduce the rate of Corporation Tax, the amount of tax the companies are even *supposed* to pay - as we all know they very rarely match even the current low figure. The words "Free Market", whenever uttered by a Corporate Monopolist, mean the exact opposite, they actually mean a "Rigged Market".


    "Today's industrial figures are the writing on the wall for the faint hope that there is going to be growth in the UK in the foreeable future - IDS is right - without serious protectionism UK PLC is never going to do anything about its long term unemployed - so without groeth and a shinking welafre bill, we are heading for the Greek economic trap."

    if there were provisions about the State repossessing assets at knock-down market values, then how come the UK tax-payer ended up paying mega-£Bns for useless bankrupt-Bank stock? Because its NOT against EU regulations perhaps? So where are the Eu regulations preventing new UK investment by the State???

    ...there ...is ...in ...Reality .......NONE!!!!

    so why do we need protectionism? Surely we actually need the GOVT INVESTMENT IN LOCAL BUSINESS before we actually need protection for them? Wouldn't you say? ;)

    what we need is serious investment, not serious protectionism. If we produce good products, and its a company respected by the public, with a well-satisfied and well motivated workforce (such as Infinity Foods), then we will sell them, and with the aid of the EU, we will sell them across the whole of Europe.

    protectionism is ok for some small industries to start, or to maintain, but when a product or service is genuinely good, the larger market beckons.

    the necessary growth must come from State initiatives, as the only other sector with cash are the corporates and Banks, both awash with tax-payers monies. Its a rare small business that can grow, or new ones started - largely *because* of the stranglehold the above two groups have. How can a green-grocer open next to a Tescos? Where could the money come from to start small scale local Turbine production? As for lowering Welfare provisions, this is not only economically utterly insane, it is also utterly morally bankrupt - as is stinking bleeding obvious.


    "But this is a coalition government"

    its a normal one-party Govt. The differences between the 'tories', and the 'libdims', is actually less than the Thatcher-era "wets", and "Thatcherites", can you remember?


    "the LibDems won't agree to immigration curbs"

    an excuse for the Tory leadership, who don't want to anger their right-wing, who are hawkish on large immigration to lower wages and want to create a useful scape-goat...


    "or leaving the EU's libertarian free market"

    the EU tried to harmonise social policies in the EEC Social Chapter, that not only gave universal workers rights, but also the notion that companies over a certain size should have the workforce represented on the board. Depending upon which definition of "libertarian" you are using, this is either good or bad. As a "social-Libertarian', i think that was a good move, The UK Govt "opted-out".

    "the Tories are therefore powerless to move to the nationalist rightwing agenda of IDS, even if Cameron did yet another U turn on immigration."

    that is what the "islamophobic" press will have done. "orchestrated public pressure on the poor wee leader brings bad policies in hindsight, as former concentration camps opened to public in 2031" revealed - BBC NewsDot Report, 2055 .

    2bcont...

  • Comment number 65.

    part 2:

    "Without growth, falling debt and rising employment the next election spells armageddon for the LibDems - they will be wiped out."

    Clegg and his team knew that before they joined the Coalition - it was built in to the agreement they signed.


    "Its fascinating to see how the rightwing of the Tories now begins to see that there is no choice but to impose protectionist policies, aligning their assessment of the problem with the left which wants to end globalisation and run the UK economy for full employment and self-sufficiency."

    the right-wing do NOT want to see "full employment", very much the opposite. They desire further Corporate control, which means higher costs, lower wages, higher unemployment and far lower self-sufficiency. I will grant that there are SOME on the tory right who have seen sense, however, on this matter.

    the "left", if you mean Meddlesome's-Labour, is fully in accord with the program of privatisation. The "left", if you mean UK-Uncut etc, are not really "left" in the classical sense, they mainly don't want the State to control everything, they just want it to do its proper duties of regulating big companies and collecting taxes from those most able to afford them - through the exploitation of others, usually. The "left", if you mean the unions or general Labour Movement, are divided, some obviously favouring the Meddlesome doctrine of "padding the nest", and others willing to go the extra mile to defend the rights and contracts of their members.

    i would doubt many of the above want the UK to leave the global economy, let alone the common European economy, when that could only give the multi-nationals even greater control over our National economy, its directions, and where the wealth produced by it goes. As a Minister though, personally i would have looked into the benefits to a small British concern, compared to the far greater risk of "over-runs" and "currency fluctuations" when looking at the contract. Thats just me, however, perhaps.


    "Surely the LibDems must now see their destruction staring them in the face?"

    the Leaders, including Cable, knew it last year. The rank and file might have some sympathy for the NotW staff after next election.


    "The party which overwhelmingly rejected the libertarian Orange Book policies sneaked into government via the back door of the Coalition Agreement directly against their official manifesto of slower, less deep spending cuts now needs to pull the plug on Clegg and his sidekicks to stand any chance of remaining a serious political force in thr UK, or be consigned to the wilderness for another five generations."

    richard, clegg was placed in power for specifically this situation. Think about a "mach 3 razor", usually the first two can entice the Public to vote for them, but if they fail there is the "back-up" libdims - who take the 'protest vote' and divert it back into the sham-democracy. Clegg only joined the party a few years ago, and became Leader less than 2 years before the General Election - almost exactly like CIA-plant Blair taking over from Labour's John Smith.


    "IMHO I'm now entirely convinced that Nick Clegg knows what the outcome will be and is already negotiating his betrayal of his party to joing the Tories. Will the rank and file LibDems simply stand by and allow themselves to be shafted?"

    lmao - i was doing this segment by segment, and you got here ahead of me i see! =]


    "Go not gently into that goodnight, but rage, rage against the dying of the light..."

    -----"innit"-------

    again, sorry for the delay.

    oh and btw, "Today, David Camoron was given a SECOND CHANCE over the Andy Coulson affair...."

    just to give you the readers a SECOND CHANCE to read that earlier comment of mine, if you'd missed it before!

    oh please. [pukes]

 

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