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Tuesday 1 February 2011

Sarah McDermott | 11:50 UK time, Tuesday, 1 February 2011

Egyptian protesters are holding huge rallies in Cairo and other cities as they step up their efforts to force President Hosni Mubarak from power.

Organisers have been hoping to bring one million people on to the streets of the capital - our correspondent Tim Whewell has been spending the day talking to those in the crowd, and will be joining us live.

Jeremy will be getting more analysis on the situation in the country from Foreign Secretary William Hague, and will be speaking to Prince Hassan of Jordan, where the government today was sacked en masse.

He'll also be asking Professor Francis Fukuyama - who famously wrote about the end of history following the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 - what this might all mean for democracy in the Middle East.

And we have a film about the protest movement, the English Defence League, as they prepare for what is likely to be their biggest demonstration to date this weekend in Luton.

We'll also be hearing live from their leader, Stephen Lennon aka Tommy Robinson.

Do join us at 10.30pm on BBC Two for all that, and more.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    Ah ...the EDL...yet another confection to distract us from demanding an assembly for ourselves!The Beeb have such fun with us horrid Duffyist bigots!

    Of course if the EDL were Polish or Pakistani "nationalists" the best cutlery would be out and the most reverential deferential interviewing would be in order.Emily in a burka sitting dreamily at the Imam`s feet perhaps?

    What amuses me is that if this was Ireland or Kosovo and it suited Washington you can bet that the CIA and Soros and the capitalist media wouldd create a free England in weeks....complete with morris dancers and maypoles on every corner!

    Shame we have global capitalism`s trojan horse "The City of LOndon" in our midst.....they could never let nationalists have control of that!

  • Comment number 2.

    Don`t be frightened BBC...all we want is democracy in our own country...just like the Egyptians!

  • Comment number 3.

    Come on NN...surely you aren`t afraid of freedom and democracy....or are you all in Cairo interviewing each other?

  • Comment number 4.

    what the happy clappy democrats are not telling you about eygpt political background

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

  • Comment number 5.

    PREVAILING WIND - UP

    Might someone prevail on Jeremy to drop the bad-cop/worse-cop approach, and simply interview intelligently, allowing US to draw inference and conclusion? NewsyNighty is not (yet) the Jeremy Kyle Show (though similarities are unavoidable).

    The issues now paramount in these islands - NOT climate, Terror or energy, but pragmatism, altruism and integrity - should not be used for edgy infotainment or cur-rant affairs, but investigated, analysed and presented with gravitas by a-political cogent commentators.

    THEATRICAL PRESENTATION HAS NO PLACE (neither do picture walls and wild street interviews).

  • Comment number 6.

    A MOCKERY

    I have just read the opening paragraph of the EDL Mission Statement' which refers to: "Muslim extremists who, at a homecoming parade in Luton, openly mocked the sacrifices of our service personnel"

    Permission to explode? Just how 'biblically mocked' is Johnnie Foreigner, when our mercenaries ship out to his country, with the Queen's blessing, to do the job they love: death and destruction at high personal risk - aka extreme paintballing?

    What might the Archbishop's view be on this - in Christian terms? We are still Christian?

    The errors are all ours. Either we are at war - in which case the Muslim Mockers should be in internment camps, or we are at peace, in which case we should not be clobbering JF on a whim. Now that we seem intent on the Bush/Blair doctrine of eternal strife (1984?) only a complete clearance of 'alien blood' from these isles makes practical sense.

    Oh - it's all going terrifyingly well.

  • Comment number 7.

    Jeremy? Two night's on the bounce? C'mon guys, what's goin' on?

  • Comment number 8.

    6 I Sir..It`s traitors like Singleton who bring the whole golden edifice of global capitalism into disrepute....very soon now we shall find ourselves unable to defend freedom and democracy anywhere in the world without his agent provocatorial ramblings ringing in our patriotic ears!

    Enough of this Basildon Bolshevism....and hoorah for the City of London and unrestrained Bonusism!

    I remain your parasitic servant ...Sir Herbert Gusset of Flywheel,Gusset and Flwheel!

  • Comment number 9.

    The threads are being doctored by cutting them in half...Stephanomics amd Michael Cricks`s thread about Gerry Adams seem to be affected....or is it just me?

  • Comment number 10.

    '3. At 12:53pm on 01 Feb 2011, worcesterjim wrote:
    Come on NN...surely you aren`t afraid of freedom and democracy....or are you all in Cairo interviewing each other?'


    There do seem a fair few there... at least, compared to other outfits in danger of dominating the media space here. Well, possibly, in the 'wrong' way, at least. And thinness is being spread.

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/174604/BBC-under-fire-for-sending-army-to-Davos/

    Amazing anyone left (I mean that in the remaining sense) here.

    Thank heavens no tweeting revolutionary has fallen down a mineshaft... 'The budget... the budget!!!'

    Maybe a 'guest' slot from those representative of 'the people' columnists, Polly, Kevin or, with luck, even Gorgeous George.

    You know you want to.

  • Comment number 11.

    Come In No 6 your time is UP

    Whats your Langwhishes Like ?

    You Believe It's Fun Snuffing It for YOUR/my/Our Country (tryt)

    Go back 2 sCool or back 2 the 1st World War then go forward IN TIME

    Frame by Frame ..Dig Into Mother Earth with your Blinkered Eyelids whilst wearing A Skidlid

    Scrape Dead Children Off the Deck with A Spoon It's just like Jam

    EEZEE PEEZEE Twice as Cheesey .. Jammy War Dodger

  • Comment number 12.

    Re last nite

    Are our Students/cadets Smoking the Wrong Weed
    Drinking the Wrong Hooch
    Popping the Wrong Pills
    Sniffing the Wrong Glue
    Injecting the Wrong Fluids
    Bashing the Wrong TarGITS
    Pissing on the Wrong Idle's/Idoll

    FREE Education NO Free Me From DoZEE Students

    reed books learn too count, Library (if open) Play Darts ( if Pub open)

    and or A Healthy Boot up the old wotsit whilst top of head facing a brick wall ( 3 STRIKES for the price of one )

  • Comment number 13.

    Yesterday's Fat Rat Films take on UK Uncut was produced and directed by Gemma Atkinson and Fred Grace whose sympathy and support for left wing causes is well documented. This is presumably why the film was so narrowly focused Oxford Street shops and failed to highlight, say, The Guardian's tax avoidance practices.

    Tonight's inhouse BBC film is made by Catrin Nye who has been broadcasting scare stories about racism and the EDL for past eighteen months.

    Your unbalanced cackhanded attempts to manipulate public opinion sometimes border on the insulting.

  • Comment number 14.

    Is the BBC being jammed by GCHQ?

  • Comment number 15.

    ..The Duke of York is also said to have played a behind-the-scenes role in encouraging the terrorist’s release. ...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8296368/WikiLeaks-files-reveal-cold-callous-and-brutal-behaviour-of-ministers.html

    as you do

    the FO is detached from reality? time to move it out of carlton house and its images of empire?

  • Comment number 16.

    ..King Sacks Jordan Government After Protests ..

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/01/jordan-king-abdullah-prime-minister

    another log on the fire

  • Comment number 17.

    #1 wj:
    "Of course if the EDL were Polish or Pakistani "nationalists" the best cutlery would be out and the most reverential deferential interviewing would be in order.Emily in a burka sitting dreamily at the Imam`s feet perhaps?"

    so you don't recall emily's rather barbed interview with Dutch Nationalist Geert Wilders? Its a pity the BBC can't send you a clip, or repost it on youtube, because its blows your line clear out of the water.


    "What amuses me is that if this was Ireland or Kosovo and it suited Washington you can bet that the CIA and Soros and the capitalist media wouldd create a free England in weeks....complete with morris dancers and maypoles on every corner!"

    we are becoming a free Britain, probably with good trading and cultural-exchange between the members of the EU, and we DON'T need "Washington's" help to achieve that, thank you very much.

    British, and English culture is a far more vibrant array of subcultures than simply May-poles and Morris Dancers. Thank you for your impression of us.


    #5: barry, these are pretty topical issues for many in the UK right now?


    #11: not avoiding war, in an information cultural battle the front is everywhere, and can reach everywhere. It is not pennies that are needed, but open and direct communication openly discussing the problem(s), so change can occur throughout the levels.


    #13: MaggieL: you are not concerned with gangs of racist thugs in groups of 15,000 entering city centres to proclaim their hatred of a subculture?

    what does concern you?


    i hope the rally in Cairo goes well, peacefully, and my thoughts are with the Egyptian People as they struggle their way to hopefully a better Society, even if this is just a stepping stone.

    it is an incredible relief that the Egyptian Army declined to fire on their own citizens, if they had been ordered to, and hopefully a model that other armies in the region might follow. Salaam, Peace and Love.

  • Comment number 18.

    #15 Jaunty: there is some information missing there. The original conviction was *extremely* flaky, as many independent observers have noted - including a report from NewsNight itself. The British, the American, and the Libyan authorities all knew this was false imprisonment, but it was done as Great Power political manipulation.

    yes, the Blair/Brown Govt wanted to release Al Megrahi, because his continued imprisonment was costing the UK greatly in essential trade links, and i'm not surprised they gave some quiet counsel to the Libyans to achieve it - that letter may have won the UK thousands of jobs, and greater energy security.

    we imprisoned Al Megrahi on the urging of the US, for Great Power reasons. The continued imprisonment of this Libyan, a loyal friend of Gadhaffi, was not only harming UK interests - it was also HELPING American ones, as their companies were picking up the contract *we* lost because of Al Megrahi.

    as was reported considerably at the time, in great and repetitive depth, the Scottish Executive's decisions on the matter are absolutely impeccable, no matter the behaviour of Downing St and Whitehall. The release was on compassionate grounds. As it happens, because he was released on compassionate grounds, his appeal against his conviction was cancelled as well, this would have forced a retrial, where he could have been exonerated by a less partial Judge. The Americans would have been seriously embarrassed then, if the truth of the sequence of events comes out.

    now, as was said at the time, if the US Govt was so concerned about the release of this prisoner, instead of demanding the Scottish Assembly fly over to Washington to answer Congress's demands, Congress could simply have demanded Blair go over and answer publicly, under oath.

    they consistently ignored this clear reality. Why? Why would the senior members of Congress not like to get Tony Blair on camera, under oath, answering questions set to him by the whole Congress? Hmm.

    ...quite.

    so yeah, we can criticise the London Govt for strongly desiring to improve essential trading and energy-security links, and we can criticise the Scottish that they have such humanitarian considerations in the Judicial system that such matters can be arranged without political interference. Sure we *can*.

    i tend to think a re-examination of the evidence leading to the original conviction might be a better use of criticism however.

  • Comment number 19.

    '14. At 5:07pm on 01 Feb 2011, worcesterjim wrote:
    Is the BBC being jammed by GCHQ?'


    By way of another unwelcome series of firsts, I've been getting 'Server too busy' all day.

    Maybe they think they are in the police?

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/conradquiltyharper/100074290/why-www-police-uk-is-useless-aka-the-oh-look-pretty-maps-effect/

    GIGO. But with added £££££££.

    Meanwhile...

    15. At 5:12pm on 01 Feb 2011, jauntycyclist

    Odd how Wikileaks seems a lot less of interest in certain genetically impartial quarters now than it was recently. Maybe 'watertight oversight' has kicked in, again, if selectively, again?

  • Comment number 20.

    AND WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RENDITION EITHER (#15 link)

    Arms to Iraq, Dr Kelly, Rhodesia Sanctions etc etc. Only Sir Humphrey told the truth, and he didn’t realise we were listening.

    Why do we even comment? To a man, and to a woe-man, the denizens of Westminster lie FOR OUR GOOD. And not even Jeremy Paxman - yes, JEREMY PAXMAN - will confront them, in direct terms. If politicians, and their ghastly civilian appointees, are so openly devoid of decency, no wonder they deal double in the dark, and then deny it, Miliband-D style.

    How about an oath of allegience TO CONSTITUENTS at election time - they could even SIGN it. (Bad joke.) It would contain a declaration of truth-telling, obfuscation eschewal and avoidance of the 'Westminster answer'.

    Or we could just dump the party-faithful and find individuals of integrity . . .

  • Comment number 21.

    AND WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RENDITION EITHER (#15 link)

    Arms to Iraq, Dr Kelly, Rhodesia Sanctions etc etc. Only Sir Humphrey told the truth, and he didn’t realise we were listening.

    Why do we even comment? To a man, and to a woe-man, the denizens of Westminster lie FOR OUR GOOD. And not even Jeremy Paxman - yes, JEREMY PAXMAN - will confront them, in direct terms. If politicians, and their ghastly civilian appointees, are so openly devoid of decency, no wonder they deal double in the dark, and then deny it, Miliband-D style.

    How about an oath of allegience TO CONSTITUENTS at election time - they could even SIGN it. (Bad joke.) It would contain a declaration of truth-telling, obfuscation eschewal and avoidance of the 'Westminster answer'.

    Or we could just dump the party-faithful and find individuals of integrity . . .

    What’s that Lassie? All is not as it seems?

  • Comment number 22.

    17 MH...out of your depth a wee bit here old chum....Geert Wilders is one of Israel`s greatest fans.....now just imagine Emily going down to Jerusalem and lecturing people I am banned from mentioning here......but let`s just call them "nationalists"..eh!

    And Mr Wilders calls for the restriction of Islamic activity in his country...rather like the EDL do here.....which is why Emily was allowed to tackle him so hard.

  • Comment number 23.

    18 yes. a cia guy said he didn't do it.

    however the medical diagnosis was also a bit flakey? so not that impeccable.

  • Comment number 24.

    #4 Jaunty: only one aspect of Islam - like regarding any Christian involvement with a movement as indicating that everyone in it was like Rowan Williams?

    Egypt is in a stew, it is certainly likely that a stable Govt would include some religious people. Religion is still very big in ME countries, denying the religious subcultures political say has caused much of the unrest, the endemic corruption and denial of other basic Human Rights the rest.

    this is not a choice between Angelic Secularists and Demonic Muslims, this is about a Society working together, and solving its problems in a democratic fashion. The secularists should simply write Human Rights into a new constitution, and let the various Islamists and other groups discuss and organise as they will, and they can all take part in multi-party elections.

    if for once the West would stop demanding they have "National Interests" at stake in some self-serving action, the region would have a better chance.

    what were the wikileaks papers you mention? I haven't read the latest ones. Is there something interesting?

  • Comment number 25.

    #22: NN has run some of the best reports upon Israel, talking to both racialist-Israelis, and also nationalist Israelis who want peace with the Palestinians, even if it means going back to the Green Line, accepting the return of the Palestinian Diaspora, and negotiating over Jerusalem to find a just and equitable solution that guarantees sharing and access for ALL - as well as both Capitals. They have also interviewed and shown hard-liners on both sides.

    is it perfect? No, of course not. But NN do the best they can, which is a great deal more critical than the Corporate Press. I wonder just how analytical and critical of the Chechnya Holocaust 'Russia Today' is within Russia? Perhaps you could tell us?

    "And Mr Wilders calls for the restriction of Islamic activity in his country...rather like the EDL do here.....which is why Emily was allowed to tackle him so hard."

    indeed he is a racist nationalist, so your entire line:

    "Of course if the EDL were Polish or Pakistani "nationalists" the best cutlery would be out and the most reverential deferential interviewing would be in order." - is utter bovine, perhaps you will admit so and apologise to the BBC and us?

    i'm not saying the BBC, or NewsNight, are perfect, however i think they are still worth watching, and are often very informative and revealing. One thing i can't understand about you, if you so obviously hate the BBC and Britain so much, why do you watch it and comment here? I'm sure you could find better things to do with your time?

  • Comment number 26.

    #23: constitutionally and legally impeccable. Bearing in mind his known innocence by all parties concerned, moral impeccability can be added to the decision as well.

    i do belive thee was far more evidence than "a cia bloke said he didn't do it". The report also interviewed the main US 'technical expert', who turned out to have a degree in *political science*, and "verified" the bomb part by "looking at it", even though he had NO TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE IN THAT FIELD.

    there were also serious considerations as to the impossibility of him actually being where he was alleged to have been, and that more primary evidene came from a shop-keeper who "recognised" Al Megrahi from months before, after seeing Al Megrahis picture in the media, funnily enough becoming wealthier after his testimony and disappearing...

    more than enough to have put a retrial on a sound basis.

    call me Mr Skeptical....

  • Comment number 27.

    25 How touching that you should show such concern for me MH...I know you aren`t saying that NN is perfect...you go to great lengths to confirm that...and I wasn`t including you into the equation at first anyway.
    As to the "one" thing you "can`t understand" about me I have some bad news.....there`s precious little that you understand about me...and that you make painfully obvious time and time again.
    It`s not that I hate Britain MH...it`s that I am sick of watching my children elbowed aside by incomers who this country has no responsibility for.As a matter of fact I don`t really hate anyone..not even you ....however disappointing you may find that to learn.

  • Comment number 28.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 29.

    mj, even if you ARE a KGB disinformation officer working to implant racial tension in the UK Blogosphere, or just a very very strange Brit, i don't want you to be stopped from posting. I'd like to debate the ideas you hold, honestly and openly. I don't think people or ideas should be banned from discussion. As long as they ARE honest and open.

  • Comment number 30.

    Is MRDuff sniffing glue. Cryptic is one thing, mad is another

  • Comment number 31.

    Tommy Robinson is a breath of fresh air in Britain. It must be hard for the BBC and co to swallow the fact that the street boy with no class, no manners, no friends from Oxford has so much power and so many people behind him.

  • Comment number 32.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12340923

    "But [Mubarak] criticised the protests, saying what began as a civilised phenomenon turned into a violent event controlled by political cowards.

    He said he had offered to meet all parties but there were political powers that had refused dialogue."

    a peaceful transition is preferable, even over a few months, but this hardly sounds like he has understood the protests, nor his actual position. It would be a danger to keep him in office, but is there anyone competent to take his place, even for just a caretaker-period?

  • Comment number 33.

    sometimes this Govt gets it more right than the last one though:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12334075

    a removal of a potentially very censoring piece of legislation. Good to hear 'they're' listening in small ways!

  • Comment number 34.

    '42: oh i'm sure Tommy Robinson has more than a few 'friends' from Oxbridge, amaralmat. His normal followers probably don't get to meet them, though.

  • Comment number 35.

    30 Fence post Sit

    Is that YouWho Gloo ? wont be sniffin You

    Ed hell or Ed heaven

  • Comment number 36.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 37.

    10 o'clock news: how ironic that so many MPs are scandalised by "those who break the law being able to vote on the people who make the Law" --- when SOME of us remember just how many of those MPs were breaking laws themselves!!

    has every other European country implemented this? If every other European country can somehow manage to survive this implementation of Human Rights without falling apart, what's so wrong with the UK??

    its hardly surprising the Tory press are baying on this, by pushing through to a break with the European Court on Human Rights, 'we' will have to pay the compensation... or leave the EU. I say 'we', because where will that money come from? A tax on the stupidity of our politicians? We could probably end income tax if so!

    here's the rub: if we do not accept this improvement on our Internationally-based Human Rights, then we will have to leave the European Union. Whilst i get that the EU has problems, and is often a pain-in-the-[bleep], doing so will immediately push the UK into losing the EU market, as our exports to them will suddenly have to pay their customs tax. Do not think we could automatically go back into the 'EFTA' group. Membership of the EU has benefits that VASTLY outstrip any medieval notion of denying all rights to those who should be learning how to be good citizens.

    is the UK *really* going to leave the EU because it wants to block some HUMAN RIGHTS?!?

    Great!

  • Comment number 38.

    Excellent Jeremy again tonight - particularly his interview with Hague and then with Lennon from the EDL. I have an awful feeling Egypt/Tunisia etc may be heading down the route of Iran with its "revolution." Carter backed Ayatollah Khomeni and we all know what happened there. Oh well.

  • Comment number 39.

    Lord Above...I`ve been watching NN and had to switch it off...that Paxman chap was dreadful...in fact a working clas chap from Luton made mincemeat of his bumbling disinguousness.
    If that`s the best you NN people can do then PLEASE step away from this deeply serious issue before we have serious unrest here.You haven`t a CLUE how to resolve issues.THAT WAS FRIGHTENING!
    Journalists are a menace to society...all you care about is polarising issues and making controversial stuff designed to amplify ill feeling.

  • Comment number 40.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 41.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 42.

    ANOTHER LOOK AT FREE SPEECH AND OPPRESSION

    Why do I have this feeling that we, too, are oppressed? Might our oppression be as insidious as our corruption?

    I gather those who spoke out in Egypt got arrested, beaten and worse. Here, speaking out just draws contemptuous dismissal. Neither is a matter for pride, in any regime. But now we see that rigidity can be broken, whereas punching jelly just wears you out.

    My MP, in an elevated position by virtue of a party rosette, not through his own qualities, sees fit to treat my representations regarding electoral 'undue influence', with contempt. Our masters have deliberately made it a police matter OR NOTHING, thus inhibiting complaint. Now doesn't that sound a bit third world?

    But I am entirely free to make complaint here - much good may it do.

    Jelly anyone?

  • Comment number 43.

    So wonderfully English, the practice of a tri-plicity learn't so well from the artifice of the harried fox.Raise the spectre of an Islamic government in Egppt,report on the trial of a 'terrorist'in old ways so as to shore it up, and then, have the EDL on to use their 'anger' to darkly enhance the generic dread while at the same time letting the trusty social racism of Middle England obfuscate Newsnight's and the EDL's common cause.

  • Comment number 44.

    Well said and well done Stephen Lennon! For the first time that I can recall in all of my years of watching Newsnight an "ordinary man" without the benefit of a PPE degree or a Ministerial car or an expense account managed to best Jeremy Paxman on his own turf.

    Whenever there is a popular movement, for example the student protests we are privileged to observe Jeremy Paxman fenestrate them for their ordinary beliefs in the presence of Paxman's generally smug senior journalist or politician friends. He tried to do it last night to the leaders of UK Uncut whilst a smirking member of the IOD sat gloating - he did it over the Student protests when he laid into some of their leaders. Tonight, and ordinary 'bloke' from Luton told him straight and wouldn't give in to his bullying.

    It is about time that someone managed to put a case for any grass-roots pressure group that is anti the establishment line to Newsnight and survive. Mostly BBC journos are so concerned with getting a 'put down' that they suffocate and de-rail the average person who just so happens to be at the front of a grass-roots cause (nb the student protesters). For Stephen Lennon and his EDL to survive the well rehearsed complaints and whines about racists and racism that the BBC always trot out to try and muzzle the complaints of the ordinary people of this country is a real achievement.

    More power to you mate ... well done, very well done.

  • Comment number 45.

    HAGUE IS BECOMING HIS PRIVATE EYE CARTOON-SELF!

    Any day now, one of the ninnies is going to say 'Great White Queen'!

    For now, Hague is saying: "We have to set a good example'. Well Billy, I don't know where you can look to find that. Our record, at home and abroad, is wall to wall lies and corruption, with a side-order of gratuitous violence against destitute Johnnie Foreigner.

    My advice is to withdraw from foreign interference, for a few generations, and put our own house in order. Then let 'our success' speak for itself . . . I doubt they will miss your voice.

  • Comment number 46.

    The Brain of an English defence league is wired differently to your average Liberal or Journo. The Lib and Journo brain see no danger ahead, and thats because they've lived in a bubble for way too long...the EDL brain are wired more sensitive to danger, and thats because they've been around a more 'lively' arena so to speak. EDL may not be the most educated bunch your gonna meet..but when they do speak -sometimes intoxicated with drink (well they are young and British)- its from the gut; intuition if anything else. They may not always have the ability to articulate their fears and concerns well but they see things coming from a distance that no wet-behind-the-ears-long-time-serving-big-time-BBC-presenter could ever see. Another BBC hatchett job me thinks.

  • Comment number 47.

    42 Barrie...You say "much good may it do" and until watching NN this evening I had thought there was some good to be had from posting here. But that EDL thing crystalised a feeling I havehad building for some time since watching that Duffygate incident on the television.
    It`s that the politicians and journalists KNOW that we are in a complete mess but they aren`t courageous enough to confront it. Instead they affect this innocent bewilderment exemplified by Paxman`s deliberate CID-type disingenuousness this evening.

    "Are you positive that day follows night sonny...you`re not winding me up are you? So let`s get this straight...you are trying to tell me that not only does day follow night...but now you are trying to get me to believe that night follows DAY?????"

    OUTRAGEOUS!

  • Comment number 48.

    fukiyama: you said there was no history of popular uprisings in the Muslim Middle East leading to liberal democracy, i apologise for my bitterness of mood in that post, but i did not share in the common joy for the suffering of the Iraqis, and what was to come for them:

    http://www.utopia-politics.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4436

    there could very well have been a transition to a quick Iraqi democracy, just as Egypt currently faces. Sorry to break your bubble, but Muslims are normal people to.


    right. We keep hearing about the danger from "Jihad", and how Muslims are always talking about it. The very sincere guy who told us that "Jihad means never-ending war", on information he gets from his Israeli friend, the report said, well i have this to say (scroll down for the discussion):

    http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=26901
    And he had the gall to tell *others* to study before opening their mouths?!? Jihad is linked to Jedi, as you can read. Quite a different picture in there?

  • Comment number 49.

    The moderators of this blog have to be faster.The way they operate stifles
    any true debate.

  • Comment number 50.


    EDL guy, simon whatever. dude, you're smart. Quit with the racial hatred - oh sorry, "cultural hatred", and stop trying the ride the racial-highway to political power. You have absolutely no idea of the sheer misery you might cause. If you truly love England, then work for the good of it.

    stop trying to split our country apart. The youth you represent are no different from other groups of youths in every UK subculture, all are facing no jobs, no benefits, and rising prices. And schools not really designed for people like them.

    there are crimes by Muslims, but it is not only Muslims who do those crimes - nor do they stand out in crime statistics, except by coverage in the tabloids.

    you say you are "fighting Extremist Islam", yet you MUST be aware that the activities of your group can only INCREASE English-Muslims unease at what is happening?

    Islam is not a greater threat to the Secular UK than Christianity still is, and its a smaller threat to being "Civilised" than what *you* represent.

    frankly, if you want to organise and hate people, then instead of choosing a weaker group than yourself who have never harmed you directly, why not take a look at those people who stole all the money, the bankers? Or the companies refusing to pay their taxes so the Govt taxes us more?

    i reckon they've done more to hurt normal people. Probably were part of the group that backed our troops being sent to Afghanistan and Iraq, too.

    if you're going to hate, at least hate the people who have done you wrong. Don't go on marches that are just intended to scare the local people. Those of you that go just for the violence, i'm sure you will achieve your intention one way or another. But the rest of you, chanting hatred will not improve the UK, it will just divide us up.

  • Comment number 51.

    HEAR HEAR (#44)

    There was an ingenuous winner and a bad - indeed, rudely dismissive - loser.

    Mistress UK76: How was it for you? (:o)

  • Comment number 52.

    RE-EXAMINING LOCKERBIE (#18)

    Start by reading the Private Eye 'Special'.

    The fragment of chip 'found' was later echoed in the 'finding' of a hijacker-passport at 'Ground Bozo'.

    As someone said: America has a Hollywood mentality when creating illusions.

  • Comment number 53.

    I think Jeremy was flummoxed by the EDL spokesperson because he's become so used to confronting obfuscating politicians - largely on his own education level - and not someone from the street.

    Shows how out of touch our politicians and media have become with the 'common' people. No wonder social networking grows in preference to the established order, where no-one gains overdue influence because of the old school tie.

    On the subject of politicians, William Hague really should rename himself William Vague. A master of euphemisms and semantics. Bland Britannia.

  • Comment number 54.

    what a load of balls. The edl guy just kept repeating a bunch of tired old Tabloid headlines. no doubt they go well with his usual audience. Simply talking fast and obsessively about a group of immigrants being the cause of every trouble the UK has is not a solution for the problems the UK is facing. Everything the edl said was based upon ignorance, with the threat of mass violence on a minority behind it. Compare with the reasoned arguments of the young man on monday's show.

    i was impressed by his intelligence, but why direct his and our attention constantly onto a group that cannot change the problems the UK is facing?

    what does threatening english-moslems in Luton achieve?

    what kind of Britain would he create?

    What would he have to do to basic UK rights to achieve it?

    the environmental, anti-cuts, anti-corporate campaigners do not have Great Leaders, they are decentralised, and sometimes democratic to a fault. They educate their members so as many as possible understand the issues, and accept different opinions and diverse groups.

    what would happen to the edl without their current "Great Leader"? He does their thinking for them. Which would you prefer to be a major force in UK politics? The people we saw on monday? Or the edl?

    hell, *i* get the issues of poverty and bad education, and those issues need addressing ASAP, and jobs and courses created by a Govt interested in growth, but i fail completely to see why targeting Muslims is ever going to improve matters.

    the aim of terrorism is not only to inflect terror, it is to inspire terrorism in response. Arranging a march of thousands of thugs on a racial rampage through a city, to intimidate the locals, is terrorism by any definition.

    i would like to say the best place for those thugs is in the Army, but in truth - the last thing the British Army needs right now is a bunch of hyped-up islamophobes. Which is a shame, really.

    perhaps Westminster could fund a paint-ball arena, where these wannabe stormtroopers could go up against wannabe muslim freedom-fighters, and they could get all their childish aggression out in a safe way?

    the may even prefer it to being spat on and glared at by English people sickened by the sight of such overt fascism and racism, as they march through English cities united... against *them*.

  • Comment number 55.

    can somebody tell me why the NHS is getting a reform, and not the banking services? *Which* of the two suffered a major crisis recently?

    the Health System is healthy, could be better, but better than its been for a long time. The banking sector is sick, that couldn't possibly be more obvious.

    SO WHY IS IT OUR NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE GETTING THE BRUNT OF TORY REFORMS????


    #52 barrie: and the completely missing wreckage of the 4th flight on 9/11? Their cops behave more like the cops on TV, than trained professionals. Strange way to train your police, or soldiers...

  • Comment number 56.

  • Comment number 57.

    I noticed the use of 'sinister' mood music on the EDL report last night. This isn't the first time that I've heard it used on Newsnight but last night was the first time I predicted it before it happened. What are the editorial guidelines on the use of mood music in factual news reports? I don't remember hearing any when the government was announcing all the cuts...I don't think there is any place for subliminal mood music in any factual news piece, but seeing as it is happening then as a licence payer I'd like to know the rules under which I'm being manipulated.

  • Comment number 58.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 59.

    Well what an intolerant Mr. Robinson is! The EDL are a collective group of intolerants! Shame on the BBC for giving an unelected, intolerant person/group a platform to spew hatred!!!

    P.S. I've had to replace the word bigot with intolerant. It would seem the BBC's moderators are not willing to offend the EDL on this blog, yet they allow the EDL to offend the right thinking people who watched the programme. Again; shame on the BBC!!!

  • Comment number 60.

    Leftie Footer's still running the show then BBC, Oh Well that's handy, recieved a payment plastic card for my TV Lic the other day and paid £25.25 off it Yesterday.

    That was the last time .. I do look forward 2 the Fine which I won't pay

    I will look forward 2 jail, how much does it cost The Stupid taxpayer 2 keep sumone in Nick

  • Comment number 61.

    Well Dun Auntie for posting my last, rather bored with changing my ID

    world service getting Cut eh, thats just the start

    Welcome 2 the Machine .. when you lose your job

    Welcome 2 The Real World .. when you lose your job

  • Comment number 62.

    I am not religious but understand that others are. So taking one single religion and using it to blame it on all the social and political problems of the country is short sighted and dangerous to say the least. The EDL i feel is an organisation targeting and making up nonesense and transposing this on to everyone in a particular community. All the problems mentioned last night are universal and exist in all races colours creeds. Look at exposures in the catholic church. Should we persecute all catholics? It's just ridiculous. But also dangerous and miss leading. We live in a secular multicultural society where most people just want to get on with their lives in peace. This anti muslim feeling has been created by polititians for years now and fuel by stupid comments in the media and a total deflection on to what is really going on politically at the moment in this country which will have a great impact on the disassociated working classes for may years to come.i.e cuts!

  • Comment number 63.

    THE TRUTH HURTS eh Auntie

    Post 30 My Mate He Guard The Gate eh Auntie

    He Explained 2 me The Position and Content of His Post

    He like Me is A Wearer of The Blue Blanket

    FREEDOM OF SPEECH .. Now What On Earth/Heaven/Hell Is That

    You wouldn't NO If It Bit You On The ARSE

  • Comment number 64.

    Sixty2 Craphatman123

    They whoever THEY are came Close 2 Killing ONE Of MY CHILDREN ALL BETS ARE OFF

    THINGS have been Trying 2 Kill Me and my Mates for over Half A Century, I don't mind that it comes with Terretorials

    Trying 2 Kill one of My Babies .. The BOOT is On The Other BALL

  • Comment number 65.

    The Invisable POST 36 The UnKnown Soldier.

    I have Friends I Don't have Stupid Friends.

    Post It and Be Dammned or Not .. Whatever The Case May Be

    You Non - Combatants No Nothing and Understand Even Less

  • Comment number 66.

    Dearest Auntie Do You think commiting Suicide and Taking as many Soles with you as possibe Breaks the House Rules

    DOZY Dosen't seem like it 2 You

    Is this bigger than you or is that a White Lie

    Maroon Herring Blue Herring Green Herring or A Combination Of

  • Comment number 67.

    Arse We At War Auntie?

    Have I Started Flinging Rotting Stiff's Corpes's over Your Wall yet Auntie

    Have I Started Telling Everybody that having A TV Lic is A FundaMental Attack on Their Uman Rights

    NOT YET Dearest Auntie

  • Comment number 68.

    Is Post 69 ear yet Auntie

  • Comment number 69.

    Section 69 the septics call it catch 22

    Section 69 of Queens Regs can get you for Anything Auntie

  • Comment number 70.

    Risking the 'if you don't like it, why come here' logic of those who feel others should pay up and shut up as opposed to feeling critiques of a service one is obliged to co-fund might be fair enough, equally valid and maybe even result in improvements...

    '59. At 08:23am on 02 Feb 2011, DisgustedinDERRY wrote:
    Well what an intolerant Mr. Robinson is! The EDL are a collective group of intolerants! Shame on the BBC for giving an unelected, intolerant person/group a platform to spew hatred!!!


    ... always a joy to see irony at its best.

    Wasn't too interested based on the billing, but as one less than keen on taking a lead from the direction of others (especially those in 'high' places who seem to think they 'know' and 'better') see fit to instruct, it seems this interview may be worth checking out on iPlayer to make my own mind up based on what is actually said as opposed to that interpreted, or often pre-ordained by others.

    Presuming it doesn't get closed out, or edited, or any of those other 'techniques' that can get used to enhance the narrative when editorial by omission fails.

    But if so, as a precedent, the guest commentator slot at Newsnight might thin out considerably if unelected or intolerant 'groups' are denied a platform.

    Unless the definitions of those are 'flexibly applied' of course.

  • Comment number 71.

    NEVER MIND THE GRAVITAS SENSE THE ART(#57)

    Your point is one that I have grown tired of raising, muggwgump.

    MANIPULATION seems to be the key word. All the politics/current affairs programmes, are equipped with picture-walls showing anything from simulated/bogus 'outdoors' to wandering weekday-names, blobs or pulsating circles. I deduce that the lunatic 'artoes' have taken over the asylum, or that the Fathead Controllers believe their core output is such carp, that we need SOMETHING ELSE for us to look at, till the programme goes away.

    Set-piece reports are workshopped to death - death of all worthwhile content - being smothered in Picasso and chips, art nouveau, art bozo, art plonker, and wherefore art though Romeo. Only THEN do they add the bloody musack which you (muggwhump) so accurately report!

    I too question the cost. But with the 'mother' of Parliaments, setting an example of thrift that passeth all understanding, where is any good model to be found? Not in the Arch of Cant's Palace - that's for sure.

    Oh - it's all going awfully well.

  • Comment number 72.

    'OUTNUMBERED' (#59 #62 et al)

    That's the title of a sitcom, due back on TV soon, featuring a white family with wild kids, who dominate the parents' lives.

    What if it were a sitcom about an area of a British town, featuring unsophisticated white youths, outnumbered by immigrants, that illustrated their (predictable?) disaffected (if simplistic) thought processes? Would it reach our screens?

    I still maintain that our inner ape*, particularly the MALE ape, particularly the YOUNG male ape, is programmed to engage, negatively, with DIFFERENCE in others. I suggest it is a defence of the in-group and gene pool. The cerebral error is to label this as colour, religious or ethnic prejudice (or simply 'hate' as in 'hate crime') and CONFRONT it in righteous ignorance. In truth, the massive importation of 'others' and laissez faire attitude to ghetto formation, is far more reprehensible than any attitude taken by the EDL.

    NewsyNighty should investigate, and report on, the 'honourable' idiots of past governments, WHO PUT THIS MESS IN PLACE. But PLEASE do it without 'son et lumiere'.

    *I refer to the Ape Confused by Language (aka HomSap) whose male young will react to ANY 'anomaly': ginger hair, short stature, tall stature, fatness, thinness, big ears, anomalous teeth, baldness, squeaky voice, geekiness, manner of dress, odd headgear and skin colour. Add your own.

    I am balding and past my die-by date (biblically) with a wall-eye - feel free to abuse.

  • Comment number 73.

    The Mubarak Supporters are now marching to Tahrir Square.....
    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Article/201009115920969

    they are starting to see what the future (in reality) holds for them.......

  • Comment number 74.

    The EDL and BBC are what you get when you stop taking responsibility for your own society and start treating it as a spectator sport over which you have no control.
    Take the elephant in Studio One...immigration.
    Let`s imagine that were powerful gods sitting up in the sky running Britain like a board game.And the objective of the game is to create a happy prosperous civilised society from the bankrupt Britain left over from the Second World War.

    One player says .....export all the jobs to China and bankroll bankers and waste money on wars for oil ....and here`s my masterstroke....I will let any poor or angry or criminal person in from abroad at public expense... and then have some fun by turning the angry indigenous underclass against them.

    Is that a winning game plan? Well the BBC seem to think so!

  • Comment number 75.

    Got 2 Pick A Pocket or 2

    Got 2 Pick A Bale of Cotton (on) or 2

    Slavery is Dead Is It

    Just watched Slave Children Whowhoom made Vic Brit

    Nasty British What ave they ever dun for u

    Let Off Some Steam Electrifry urself Hover somewhere Elsie make tractors take post make toast Imunise urself Ect ECT ect yourself till I am Blue in the boat race ..Shape Up Ship Out

  • Comment number 76.

    Off down TIT Pub 2 get Outragesly Sober
    OH Yes Auntie Doctors Orders I allways Obey Orders .. on my days off spare time maybe sometimes allways never ever as A hobby for fun for a laugh

    If its Right its Wright if tits wrong/wrang tits still rite

  • Comment number 77.

    74 I like your Sauce 72 same 2 you

  • Comment number 78.

    Jeremy Paxman's condescending attidtude to the EDL does not help. The EDL are obvioulsly a misguided bunch who draw on a range of radicals themselves.
    The group may have a poor understanding of the issues and the history, but there is some truth to some of their arguments. I worked in a factory where certain muslims did not observe the minutes silence for 9/11; that was sobering.
    There is an integration issue with some muslims. Their are also some other issues, which flow from this, but I suspect the raidicals have tried the English dream, found it shallow and reverted to their origianl faith, with extremist views.
    I don't have the answers, but ridiculing the people who live in the areas affected does not help.
    It is not a middle class problem, so therefore not a problem is what I hear, loud and clear.

  • Comment number 79.

    EDF

    the israeli internet warfare team use these same koran quotes that the 'israeli researcher' has sent the EDF.

    have the EDF read the King's Torah? What do they make of that?

    A working class person living in luton WIll have a different life experience than someone who goes fly fishing?

    Metropolitans trying to suppress the obvious consequences of the pig philosophy that has allowed militant islam to flourish in the uk seems merely to prolong the pig philosophy that is causing the problem? The State is frightened of militant islam which is why we have control orders, suppression of freedoms and spend ever increasing billions on internal state security in a trend with no end? So the State is an EDF writ large?

    All religious texts are incompatible with human rights for all. If the Archbishop of Canterbury demanded the strict letter of the bible as law how many would approve?

    If one lived in Luton one might think there is a shadow society that doesn't integrate that hates our way of life and has proven it will use violent methods perhaps even WMD if they could get it to attack it? That's the view the State has? So why not working class people?

    How do metropolitans wedded to the pig philosophy explain the lack of integration and say there is no threat? How do they explain that it is right for the police to not do anything about crimes that others explain away as cultural practices?

  • Comment number 80.

    78

    It is not a middle class problem, so therefore not a problem is what I hear, loud and clear....

    they believe its not a problem but given all what the intelligence services are doing they take the problem very seriuosly spending billions a year on internal security.

    JP might have to play the BBC fool because BBC has a pig philosophy agenda [rub our noses in multiculturalism dogma] and so its not good to be seen to be rational and take the good as the highest idea of the mind? which is why JP lost the argument? He didn't have the correct questions so it ended up sounding condescending?

  • Comment number 81.

    A MODERATE VOICE (#78)

    A pleasure to read you Count Spruce.

  • Comment number 82.

    ..Last year, he caused uproar when he chanted, ‘Death to Britain’ outside the Old Bailey after radical Roshonara Choudhry was jailed for stabbing MP Stephen Timms.

    In November, he and the group Muslims Against Crusades burned a giant poppy in London during the Armistice Day silence.

    Last month he was also exposed for working on a market stall at the same time as collecting his £60-a-week benefits.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1351792/Strictly-star-Laila-Rouass-sister-explains-Muslims-lured-fanaticism.html

    http://www.muslimsagainstcrusades.com/breaking-the-silence-part2.html

    It is part of the philosophical confusion in the uk that people think its wrong to say No to bad philosophy because it would be 'offensive'. The relativists deny there is something called the good and everything is 'equal'. Until people get themselves out of that maze they will continue being apologists for bad philosophy. Bad philosophy is offensive.

  • Comment number 83.

    DAVE WATCH - PRIME MINISTER'S QUESTIONS

    Dave is still playing the 'desperate father' card - deeply offensive. My son had problems that, whilst I was not as rich as Dave, I was nevertheless able to buy treatments beyond what the NHS had to offer. I would NEVER associate my experience with that of the truly poor.

    NB: Dave is still adhering (with intent) to the term 'BONUS POOL' when challenged over Bankers on the take. The ConDems will limit THE POOL and let the Super Cats CONTROL THE SCOOP. It's probably covered under the Clegg Protocol.

    Surrogate mother Dave - rarely seen without a matching baby-accessory, is PROUD of provision for NURSERY EDUCATION FOR 2-YEAR OLDS! He has not mentioned his plan for OUT OF WORK MOTHERS, nor yet maladjusted young and angst-ridden pubertees.

    No wonder 'they' won't culturally integrate. Who'd be a baby?

    In Dave: WE HAVE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

  • Comment number 84.

    I think you are missing the bigger picture concerning the EDL; the fact it has popular support amongst a wider public than the NF(apparently welcoming minorities, gays), UKIP etc. hegemony a-la Mrs T. combined with the fear and loathing generated about Islam,
    War and its effects real or perceived to the proletariat and the urban-myths/anecdotal evidence concerning minorities and preferential treatment etc.
    A real belief that politics has failed the wider public, institutions cannot be trusted, multinational corporate embezzlement and tax avoidance, etc.
    Its "membership" are amongst the hardest hit in the financial quagmire the world has allowed its self to be dropped into since the 1930's.

    Unfortunately Paxman's usual aggressive technique didn't work against someone who actually believes in their ideology and isn't cowed by the pressure of confrontational "debate". I'm sure if this was watched live - and probably a hits monster on YouTube - it will actually garner support with the disaffected. If it was meant to be a hatchet job it didn't work.

    As a viewer old enough to remember the rise of the NF of the 70's, the summer riots of the early 80's, poll tax and anti war protests I dont think it should just be dismissed as loony-ism, it will grow and will come back to bite the hand wielding the sheers.

  • Comment number 85.

    I don`t think we drew the right conclusion about Duffygate.

    The media and politicians fell upon it as a gaff but they are not stupid enough to have missed the disconnect between the metropolitan political and media classes and the perfectly normal beleagured indigeous British people.

    I don`t think they know what to do now that their empire of smug is collapsing into social fragmentation.

    All those years of mincing about on the moral high ground wittering on about their precious athylum theekers (as though they were fluffy bunnies)has left us in huge debt and unable to afford a first world lifestyle for our own people.

  • Comment number 86.

    the EDL guy was inarticulate but Jeremy interrupted him quite a lot but was on the whole generous to him, I think Jeremy being from a very different background was at pains to let him develop his argument which I hear every day at bus stops but nobody gives a monkeys anyway......

  • Comment number 87.

  • Comment number 88.

    a very interesting range of views. It is actually pleasant that the edl supporters who have been buried as moles in the BBC blogs have all come out in the same thread, it makes things obvious.

    no-one could have been convinced by the edl's performance last night, unless they already hated 'islam' - ie blamed foreigners, or else are highly susceptible to charisma.

    the people who are referring to the early Nazi movement are spot on, and there can be little doubt that the 'rise' of the edl has been aided by elements within the UK State, the "pig culture" i think barrie referred to it as, MI5 and the mass media, the banks and those who have stolen ever greater amounts of money, and driven down wages, benefits and hope for everyone else.

    if the immigration drive was partly caused by MI5 and the pigs in charge, then it stands to reason the pigs are happy at the edl - and have been supporting its growth.

    by "pigs" i do not mean the 'bobby-on-the-beat', but the ones with their snouts in the trough, those who benefited from the Iraqi descent into tribal chaos, the ones who benefit from this violent group of racist thugs blaming minorities for problems endemic within the whole UK society.

    most of the edl's membership is clearly barely out of primary school level, but its 'intelligentsia', its 'revolutionary vanguard' seem smart enough - certainly smart enough to know that what they argue is utter [bleeping] carp.

    jeremy brought that to light last night, by tracking the Great Leader down on WHY he hates Islam - all we heard was a jumbled spiel from inflammatory, racist and untrue tabloid headlines, followed by smears about the Koran.

    when Jeremy asked him directly whether he had ever actually READ the Koran, he admitted he had not.

    so he has created a wave of frenzied hatred, aimed at some normal UK citizens, pursuing their religious freedom that is a basic for a civilised liberal society but intolerable for this wannabe Great Leader, a wave he obviously intends to ride into power on, a wave that could very well lead to concentration camps, death camps ON BRITISH SOIL, --- and he has done this on the basis of hating a book that HE HAS NEVER READ!

    hey edl, 'Harry Potter' has dragons, and they're really bad, so why not attack the Pagan movements as well?

    to be fair to the edl though, i can imagine that the Pagans ARE actually next on the list, hatred has a tendency to grow. Look at 'worcesterjims' sneers about "maypoles and morris dancers", above.

    what we saw last night was a revealing look at an early Nazi movement, the charismatic wannabe 'Great Leader', the largely ignorant, ill-educated and angry cannon-fodder the Great Leader has little but contempt for (as his behaviour towards them showed, like how he behaved to the guy in the bar who wanted to tell us that he had just learned the edl "were not violent" so had joined up), and we can even see his intellectual lieutenants coming on the blog and making rather pathetic attempts to sound like normal, unbiased posters and praise him.

    praise him for what? Trying to turn all of the UKs problems into racist problems?

    the edl is part and parcel of the "pigs society", for whilst they are diverting attention - and street violence - onto helpless minorities, the privatisations, the bonus culture, the cuts, the destruction of our advanced welfare society, free health care and education, all this will continue. The edl claim to be standing up for normal poor white british - they are not, they are standing up for bankers, for smug corrupt politicians, for war-mongers who sent our troops to die, for those who would be overjoyed if the UK was broken up and dismantled. THESE are who the edl are supporting, and whilst the rank-and-file cannon-fodder will be kept in the dark about that, the Great Leader understands it fully.

    the edl are scum, but bigger scum are those behind it, pushing the UK into ethnic, tribal conflict, trying to consciously create an English Adolf Hitler.

    look at that young man last night - charismatic, yes - but would we REALLY admire someone who regards being interviewed as merely a chance to rattle off tabloid headlines, avoid engaging with some pretty serious questions, and fire up a major racist riot in Luton??

    i wonder how many Germans in 1945, the ones that survived to then, found themselves wishing back in 1931 that they had opposed the rise, the marches and the black-shirts, the thugs and the racists, and the twisted charisma of the Leader, turned away from hatred, and supported the Weimar Republic to make essential constitutional, social and economic reforms?

    more than the number of those who still believed it was right to attack religious and ethnic minorities. More than those who still believed that Hitler actually gave two [bleeps] for the German People, compared to his own power-trip.

    the edl are part of the same system that MADE the UKs sink-estates, they are an intended consequence.

    they cannot improve matters for those they claim to represent.

    they intend to turn the UK into a racial/ethic battleground, for their own political ends - political power for themselves.

    they have no plan beyond "hate the minorities", in fact they are just one big scream of hatred, as we will see in Luton this weekend.

    and despite the help they are getting from MI5, and other parts of the UK establishment that should know much better, i don't believe the UK population is going to support these nascent nazis.

    it is shameful, that at the same time we are watching the Egyptian, and Tunisian Muslims throwing off their brutal dictatorships, the UK starts toying with putting one of our own in place. And the double irony is, these people and soldiers we see, that are directing this peaceful evolution to a better societyin Egypt, THESE are the Muslims that the hate-mongers in the edl want us to hate with all our hearts.

    i think the tabloid editors should be interviewed on NN to explain when their headlines are so clearly inspiring racial tensions, WHY they are doing it. In fact i think this should be a matter for Parliament to investigate.

    i *know* we as a country are better than this.

    our ancestors fought to get rid of people like the edl from Europe - are we now to breed them in the UK?

  • Comment number 89.

    '88. At 5:25pm on 02 Feb 2011, Mindys_Housemate wrote:
    a very interesting range of views. It is actually pleasant that the edl supporters who have been buried as moles in the BBC blogs have all come out in the same thread, it makes things obvious.


    Care to amplify this? Especially the 'moles' notion and what 'things' are 'obvious'?

    Just to avoid the possibility that the fall-back resort being attempted is playing the person vs. the argument.

    Which can be a problem when claiming to speak for all and seeking to sway those simply assessing what they see and hear on relative merits. As some can tend to do.

  • Comment number 90.

    Our Ancestors Fought 2 get rid of people like the 222 from Europe rope around me necky twit

    I have Fought 2 get rid of THE TWIT

    Must Fight Harder

  • Comment number 91.

    twit-two?

  • Comment number 92.

    Re the interview with the leader of the EDL on Newsnight. An excellent opportunity to expose this organisation for what it is. But we get Jeremy Paxman slumped in his chair looking like he would rather be somewhere else. Tell Jeremy to sit up straight and start putting his subjects on the spot -rather than just trying to fill in a few minutes TV time.
    JMChis

  • Comment number 93.

    Well done Stephen Lennon. He and the EDL has the guts to stand up and campaign against the cancer Islamic extremism in this country. Yet the BBC always dismisses to the EDL as "far right". That's a shame.

    Aidan

 

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