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Thursday 17 June 2010

Verity Murphy | 13:13 UK time, Thursday, 17 June 2010

Here's Kirsty with more detail on what's coming up:

We'll lead tonight with the government's first major announcement of detailed spending cuts - £2bn scrapped from projects decided upon in the last days of the Labour government and another £8.5bn suspended.

The cuts include everything from £25m for the Stonehenge Visitor Centre to £450m for the North Tees and Hartlepool hospital, and it appears that Sheffield will be hit hard with the cancellation of an £80m loan for Sheffield Forgemasters, announced by Peter Mandelson in March.

The-then business secretary had said that the loan, to build parts for the next generation of nuclear power stations in the UK, would make the company a world leader in nuclear technology.

Also in Sheffield, £12m for the city's Retail Quarter has been suspended.

Paul Mason is in the deputy prime minister's city for reaction to today's announcements.

As I write I am captivated by the live coverage of the US Congress Committee's interrogation of the BP CEO Tony Hayward.

"Sliced and diced" is one description of the due diligence that is taking place, as the Committee get's ready to interrogate Hayward for his handling of the Gulf disaster, and about BP's decision making and risk analysis about drilling the Gulf field in the first place.

We will bring you the highlights, analysis and live reaction from Washington.

And 70 years after De Gaulle's inspiring rally to the free French broadcast from BBC Broadcasting House in London, Allan Little explores the reality of, and the myth surrounding, the French resistance.

Do join me at 10.30pm on BBC Two.


Coalition ministers have cancelled 12 projects worth £2bn agreed to by the previous Labour government since the start of 2010, including an £80m loan to Sheffield Forgemasters.

Paul Mason is on his way to Sheffield now.

Also, BP boss Tony Hayward is to face a US congressional committee, a day after the firm agreed a $20bn fund for victims of its oil spill. Katty Kay will be reporting from the Capitol.

And on the eve of anniversary of de Gaulle's famous 1940 broadcast to occupied France, calling for resistance to the Nazis, Allan Little looks at France's relationship with its wartime past and the resistance.

More details later.


  • Comment number 1.

    On the Nazis and France I suppose the big lesson is how people can be sucked into cooperating with pure evil via quite decent impulses such as notions of patriotism like Petain. Naturally more often there would have been baser instincts that in my world relate to the ideology being little more than replacement monarchists who lust for power. That they could manage to absorb the anti-semitism of the Nazis without querying the utterly baseless and unhinged motives for this blind hatred suggest that those who are drawn into such evil begin a slide into ever greater darkness.

    It tells you so much that National Socialists today spend most of their time trying to pretend that they are not National Socialists whilst futilely trying to undermine the history that reveals their genuine nature.

    Voltaire said that if you can make people believe absurdities they will commit atrocities and the racial notions of the Nazis were, and are, certainly absurd.

  • Comment number 2.

    You can judge a lot from polls and interviews and so on.

    Yet it never fails to amaze me that as most democratic voters in the UK think they are unique and in fact are very similar and what occurs to one occurs to others and so polls rarely surprise.

    The first wave of cuts seem to have been made where Labour did not have the money to fund the projects and THEY did not make any cuts or budget adjustments. It was a gamble that we would rapidly grow our way out of recession yet even today when the noises about Spain's current dire straights suggest it could be a long and bumpy road back to stability they still cynically try to exploit the economic carnage they helped to instigate.

    Byrnne said 'spending projects being axed amounted to just 0.05% of government spending, "nailing the myth" that Labour had operated a "scorched earth" policy in the run-up to the general election'.

    They were spending money they knew they did not have and intended to exploit the inevitable cuts of the next government.

    So my general point is that whilst a lot of the ire and discontent with Labour related to their "strong" leaders Blair and Brown the current irresponsible strategies suggest that it is more the political fabric of the Labour Parliamentarians as a whole that is out of tune with reality, and morality, and gave birth to the political skewing via cults of personality.

    They have never shown any real remorse for their role in contributing enthusiastically to the policies of financial sector dependence coupled with light touch regulation that went so badly wrong.

    I am not sure people will miss that point as they obviously hope they will.

  • Comment number 3.

    "Bags are to be put over scores of surveillance cameras in parts of Birmingham with large Muslim populations, after local objections. "

    I gather the "cameras were financed through the Association of Chief Police Officers' (Acpo) Terrorism and Allied Matters (TAM)".

    I have raised before that all terrorism obviously needs to be managed and initiatives such as Prevent also contributed to alienation of Muslims when we want to isolate the extremists and not the very largely peaceful majority.

    It is the case I believe that numerically the far right would be bombers outstrip al Qaeda although of course the carnage caused by 7/7 does show that they belong on a different scale. The ex-BNP Lewington the tennis ball bomber is one, the "ricin" family of the Aryan Strike Force another, there was a would be nail bomber and paedophile of the far right a couple of years or so back and so on and so on.

    Yet the problem is the same that we need to have security by being able to reach all parts of the community and to obtain the willing cooperation of those who recognise dangerous and violent groups and individuals.

    It does not matter what crack pot ideology or sect is the danger - we need clear lines of communication and I hope the coalition are giving this thought.

  • Comment number 4.

    Turkey has closed its airspace to the Israeli Airforce..

  • Comment number 5.

    On BP is part of the White House angst the worry that if deep water drilling is so disastrous and none of the oil companies had, or have, any genuine plans to contain such a disaster dare they continue with deep water drilling?

    If they don't and there is a carbon shortfall the security issues are immense.

    If they do and there is a second disaster then Obama is doomed at the polls.

    Also a query is that as the sums are now so large should it become clear that say Halliburton can be sued by BP later could they actually pay the bill?

  • Comment number 6.


    Mind you, I was three, and trying to untangle 'germs' and 'Germans' in my mind (both were apparently invisible and bad).

    If you must mention the war, give some thought to all the bewildered, shelter-cowering kids, and try not to go for grandeur. It was a really dumb business; both sides praying to the same god to help them kill the others. AND LOOK WHERE IT GOT US! Cameron voted for the latest war, and now has no option but to tell us we are in danger, if we don't kill Johnnie Foreigner.

    Invasion with sand on their boots - eh Dave?

    Funny how the quislings of Ireland are now doing so well, while France still carries its trauma. HomSap? HomCrap!

    Oh - its all going awfully well. ((Based on intelligence sources - the detail of which I cannot disclose.))

  • Comment number 7.

    By the way on Sheffield is a ratio of roughly one million pounds per job created such a good deal and if it all makes business sense why did they not take out a bank loan?

    Also I take it for granted that Gordon Browns brother who is associated with the nuclear industry has nothing to do with the company?

    Are Labour so sure the voters of Sheffield will fall for their spin as most people don't want nuclear energy if they can avoid it so having local industry dependencies would not be desirable.

  • Comment number 8.


    Voltaire is old (terminally) and French. Here is a contemporary English aphorism; one I made earlier.


    We have Cameron's heroes pursuing an ATROCIOUS war, because of political ABSURDITIES, reinforced by party imperatives.

  • Comment number 9.

    .."It appears that BP repeatedly chose risky procedures in order to reduce costs and save time and made minimal efforts to contain the added risk,"..

    no one is resigning are they?

  • Comment number 10.

    #6 barriesingleton

    "If you must mention the war, give some thought to all the bewildered, shelter-cowering kids, and try not to go for grandeur. It was a really dumb business; both sides praying to the same god to help them kill the others."

    Yesterday you lamented the absence of jaded_jean and that poster, as you are well aware, was always banging on about what a good feller Hitler was and how it all went wrong with the post-war de-Nazification of Europe plus the inevitable Holocaust agnositicism/denial.

    So looking at your comment where you try to merge both sides into the same notional tent of "dumbness" it really does miss the point that there was, then, in Germany evil and that evil was carried into France and infected some whilst others provided heroic resistance.

    Naturally they were scarred by exposure to evil.

    "Funny how the quislings of Ireland are now doing so well, while France still carries its trauma. "

    Why is it that some people are always oblique and reticent when it comes to truly defining their views?

  • Comment number 11.


    Will they make allowances?

    We should remember that, being attractive, has been proved an asset, especially in court.

  • Comment number 12.

  • Comment number 13.


    "Why is it that some people are always oblique and reticent when it comes to truly defining their views?"

    The obliquity is a 'telling device', but it sadly dies in the ear of one who only detects reticence. (:o)

  • Comment number 14.


    Watching the grilling of 'know nothing' Hayward, I am reminded that no one does farce, quite like Uncle Sam. Bravo!

  • Comment number 15.


    on the contrary, singie, it couldn't be more transparent

  • Comment number 16.

  • Comment number 17.

    #13: perhaps it is also too oblique for a poster who only expresses tight emotional control in every post, - except where they express massive rage, slander and hatred.

    wonder who i'm talking about??

    (no mim, for once its not you. xx )

    myself, i think you've expressed yourself perfectly well, barryS. Personally i'm generally suspicious of netizens who are clearly hiding their own real emotions, and only strike out at reasonable posts by the other users.


    for BP shareholders, i suspect the biggest worry if it is the case that the other oil companies can soak BP for the moratorium on deep sea rigging, then that $20Bn will be fully absorbed paying dividends to the other US oil companies who had EXACTLY THE SAME safety measures and practices in place, as Congress pointed out yesterday. This is little less than naked piracy, and it is hardly surprising to me that it is BP, with its enormous pension fund investments, that has been so hit.

    i wager that Halliburton would not have been treated the same way by Obama's Administration.

  • Comment number 18.


    I see Mr Hayward read Geology, but later moved to money-mining, within BP and outside. That seems to chime, all too closely, with cost-cutting in oil drilling. Hayward's protestations of deep humanity remind me of J Gordon Brown. He was all tangled up in money too. Might we be watching another Jekyll/Hyde dual personality?

  • Comment number 19.

    nineebanned oh no i'm off 2 question time

    dry paint

  • Comment number 20.

    What the hell is Kirsty wearing tonight???

    She's wearing that outfit for a bet...surely.

    It looks like something Gok Wan would throw together with left-overs from an Oxfam shop!

  • Comment number 21.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 22.

    I don't remember the US government getting so hot under the collar about this fiasco by Union Carbide, as they are about the oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico.

    I don't remember all this cross examination, or the billions offered for the massive clean up. Oh no it's too far away from the US to bother them, unlike the oil spill on their doorstep. And far less loss of life,(although of course sad) than in India, which continues to this day, along with massive deformaties, and illness. Isn't it funny how the americans have quietly brushed this under carpet, and ignored it.

  • Comment number 23.

    " Sheffield Forgemasters"
    I have just seen David Milliband castigating the coalition goverment of stopping the £80m loan to forgemasters to (hopefully)get business from Westinghouse for the new nuclear build.
    The question I would like to ask is why did the labour goverment allow Toshiba (Japanese) to purchase Westinghouse from British Nuclear Fuels (UK goverment owned) in 2006 knowing that an expansion of Nuclear Energy was imminent. Now the Uk is in a position of having to purchase technology from a foreign supplier.

  • Comment number 24.

    22. At 11:04pm on 17 Jun 2010, ecolizzy wrote:
    I don't remember the US government getting so hot under the collar about this fiasco by Union Carbide, as they are about the oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico.

    You have to remember that the yanks are very inward looking - they only ever consider foreign policy if it benefits them. Also compared to european and asian nations very few of them travel to foreign countries so they do not appreciate other points of view other than their own.

  • Comment number 25.

    The US reaction to the BP disaster is starting to look like an orchestrated decoy strategy to manage the US geopolitical petroleum position (remember Iraq and WMD everyone).

    Blaming BP is easier than confronting the USA's addiction to petroleum, an addiction which has cost far more lives than those lost on the deepwater horizon.

    BP is a business reacting to the opportunity afforded by the existence of an energy junkie also known as the USA. Permits were given by government to drill in those deep waters right on the edge of technologies reach in a desperate attempt to feed their craving for more of the black stuff at both affordable prices and within their geopolitical grasp (without having to go through the hastle of an expensive war).

    If it were not BP it would be some other company down the track to whom this would have happened, lucky for the US it was BP and not a USA company. Fundamentally it was an accident waiting to happen, fundamentally drilling under that depth of water is a risky undertaking, you could use the best of all proceedures and still have a disaster.despite best proceedures blow out occur from time to time, the fundamental difference is at depth once engineering control is lost and you are reduced to fumbling around 1 mile down with robots in the dark it is extremely difficult to fix it. Fundamentally those licenses should never be given. Fundamentally all very deep water drilling is a disaster waiting to happen.

    Lets see if they give out any more licenses, lets see how long it takes for it to happen again.

    By the way, there is no way to stop this well now until relief wells are drilled and the pressure drawn off in my opinion, it has been open too long, it is likely now that the drill casing is compromised and oil is coming up outside the casing and seeping up through the sea floor even if the BOP aparatus can be sealed.

    Even when the relief wells are in operation judging by the volume being released thus far it could take some time to draw down pressures in a gassy well like this by which time they will be into hurricane season and it is quite likely they will have to periodically pull off and go back again.

    This is going to run and run and run, I hope not but it could easily be christmas before pressures are sufficiently reduced.

    If i were the CEO of BP i would fight back, point out the points above and pull out of the USA. Otherwise they are finished as a company, they will be bled dry and slow barbequed over a fire of American self interested rhetoric.

    Sorry about your pensions everyone, just more victims of the triumph of the money changers in the temple over the stone masons who built it.

  • Comment number 26.


    It seems that killing Johnnie Foreigner, in his own land, even without a war, is OK. We originally cut our teeth on the slave trade and the slaughter of American, and antipodean, indigenes. The underlying contempt lingers on permitting easy atrocity. I could not help a hollow laugh at our two freeloader princes bringing succour to a few JFs - no expense spared.

    The low level of empathy in the Anglo-American psyche is lamentable. Government routinely ignores that which it CAN ignore. In Britain, we have the consequences of asbestos, infected blood products, miners' illnesses etc, all being strung out while claimants die off. (Injured mercenary heroes a different matter!) I suppose I should change my 'Johnnie Foreigner' to Johnnie Nuisance' where government is involved.

    I can only repeat that we get the wrong kind of mentality in government.
    They have no time for altruism, ethics, integrity, honour, dignity and all the other 'intangibles'. POWER IS ALL.

    To turn this crude-filled supertanker round, is close to impossible. There is a crash coming.

  • Comment number 27.

    #13 barriesingleton

    "The obliquity is a 'telling device', but it sadly dies in the ear of one who only detects reticence. (:o)"

    When somebody applauds the views of jaded_jean, as you have many times in the past and again recently, then the "ear" tends to communicate to the mind that there is sympathy for Hitler and racial nonsense and National Socialism. Certainly there is at least great tolerance for those views.

    Your "telling device" therefore tends to be obscured by the clear implications of your attempts to describe all of the parties in WWII as much the same. In fact they weren't and the catalogue of Nazi atrocities and of course the Holocaust are testament to that.

    In fairness my general impression of people who would generally be described as far right on this page is that they are unable to confront the reality of their views in any event. Therefore they tend to try to talk around their views partially because they are despised by all of democratic society and partially because they could not hold those views openly and coherently because they are unsustainable.

  • Comment number 28.


    When the, statistically impossible, events of 9/11 occurred (just think it through - 3 towers but two planes, straight down, close proximity, matter of hours) America swirled like a poked wasp nest - AS INTENDED. As Dodgy Tony said at the time, the rules of THE GAME changed. OH - THEY DID INDEED!

    NOW what have we got? An oil well has been drilled ALMOST AS IF THEY WANTED IT TO FAIL (no fighters were scrambled on 9/11) at a depth at which little can be done (the right tools were not to hand). COULD THIS BE THE NEXT MOVE IN THE GAME?

    We know our governments are ruthless, and we are expendable pawns (see #26). To have one 'unimpeded disaster' might be thought unfortunate, a second seems like intent. We should all be alert for number three. Or was No 2 the banks, and we are awaiting No 4? Makes you wonder about AIDS doesn't it? Isn't the sperm count dropping worldwide?

    Horatio didn't know the half of it.

  • Comment number 29.

    The piece on the Free French broadcasts was interesting but perhaps it was one of those pieces that deserved more time.

    On the cuts I thought Miliband Major was arrogant and shrill and adopted the standard Labour posture of offering as many words as possible in the shortest time to inhibit the simple truth that they messed up the economy. But you got the feeling that he was about to become hysterical and march off to Sheffield to chain himself to the barricades.

    My guess is that such performances will bomb with the public who want to see very lucid and comprehensive analysis coupled with the will to get the economy back on track whilst causing the least damage possible to the social fabric of our society.

    On BP my first reaction to the guest was that Newsnight had lost it but it was an excellent piece that brought in fresh and informed information and analysis.

  • Comment number 30.


    I think it is a coded signal to aliens DJ. Or Kirsty is a Stepford with a loose connection.

  • Comment number 31.

    #17 mindys_housemate

    "#13: perhaps it is also too oblique for a poster who only expresses tight emotional control in every post, - except where they express massive rage, slander and hatred"

    Where is the rage, slander and hatred?

    Assuming that this is mush is aimed at me then know this: if some people put forward views on Hitler and the Holocaust and race and IQ that are historically and scientifically nonsense and others applaud those views then it is really quite reasonable to comment on said activities.

    If there is slander or hatred then you have the moderator.

    Your mindset would read barriesingleton say:

    "Funny how the quislings of Ireland are now doing so well, while France still carries its trauma. HomSap? HomCrap!"

    and interpret one thing - perhaps.

    Mine having read the posts of jaded_jean applauded by said poster interprets something else.

    So when somebody suggest that I "strike out at reasonable posts by the other users" that is really truly pathetic.


  • Comment number 32.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 33.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 34.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 35.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 36.

    #32: mim, so you are not also irritated by this constant references to ex-posters and the shazbot BNP, EDL and whatever other right-wing abbreviations can be flung at other posters??

    how is he such a 'victim' in your world that his *current* actions are defensible? It seems he does nothing except post emotionless 'lib-speak', and then attack and slander other frankly pretty intelligent and normal other posters whenever he wants. Just because the moderators do not prevent accusations of "BNP Supporter", does not mean that is pleasant to read, especially if it is inaccurate, which frankly i beleive is true - certainly they have displayed NO hatred/racism in the past few weeks i have been following the blog.

    to be entirely honest, his constant accusations were just tedious.

    you can hate me again, for whatever, i don't care. But don't criticise me for trying to maintain a nicer atmosphere of dialogue and discussion on the blog. Its up to you, but: ..Please?

  • Comment number 37.


    the pain is mine
    the karma is matched
    this is the Hell to which i descended.

    chance is little
    possibility vast
    on which waveforms will this Reality be blended?

    not up to me
    not up to you
    but upon how many join the Pathway Attended.

    the martyr myth is a strong myth, will the Doctor be stronger?

    harm was done,
    pathways twisted
    trying to heal
    just like you.

    WorShip GAIA.

    The rift can heal.
    If we want it to.

    blessed be. xxx

  • Comment number 38.

    mods, on #34: there was a lot in there, and i'd like at least *some* of it to be published, PLEASE adjudicate quickly!

  • Comment number 39.



    My only irritation is yourself. I must be one of the healthiest 56-year olds in the UK if not on the entire globe in every sense of the word. Of course not perfect and not claiming to be omnipotent or anything like that, but HEALTHY and healthily loving my fellow human beings with all their foibles, etc, regardless of where they come from and their status at whatever level. Healthily loving those who deserve to be loved, not everybody. Those who do not particularly appeal are try to avoid or simply ignore. But there are those, like yourself, who do not deserve even a shred of sympathy on my part. You've been fooling yourself. Forget it. Nothing can help you in this respect, neither 'scientific' devices nor singie or any other fool giving in to you, nor any pain, threat, trick and blackmail you're trying to use or impose.

    There is no rift to be healed between us as we have nothing in common.

  • Comment number 40.


    'Passing the Chinese' is not a problem at all, is it??


  • Comment number 41.

    If you don't stop yourself, mousey housey, you'll be stopped, soon!!

  • Comment number 42.



  • Comment number 43.

    'As I write I am captivated by the live coverage of the US Congress Committee's interrogation of the BP CEO Tony Hayward.'

    Oddly, in contrast, I was utterly repelled.

    Not just BP, but one would wish all organisations (esp. gov) would twig that cutting costs usually doesn't save money. And instigators, especially those bonussed-up at the outset but absent come fallout time, should and can pay.

    Elements of BP fouled up, covered up and deserve all that's due, but the line-up of sanctimonious US grandstanders at this hearing, given way to much venting time, were choice. Egged on by an MSM who wouldn't let a non native 'Mericun-speaker's brilliant English but poor grasp of idiom get in the way of constructing a ratings gift offence storm.

    And that US House BPkakke session was about as unedifying a misuse of 'government' and a waste of opportunity as I have seen in a fair while.

    Which, given what's around, is saying something.

  • Comment number 44.

    The questioning of Hayward by Congress seemed to me technically well-informed. I can't help thinking that, as an example, if Railtrack had been subjected to something similarly public here, we might have had fewer fatal accidents prior to its eventual demise.

  • Comment number 45.


    Drone killings have now been termed 'Videogame Warfare', so now the geeks have their place, as well as the gung-ho mercenary paintballers, doing the job they love.

    Apparently drones reduce the tactical options of Johnnie Taliban. When he has nothing left but to strap bombs to his children, we shall be able to cry 'foul' with our 'heads held high' (a Cameron phrase).

    Le's hope Magic Obama declares victory, and pulls his troops out soon, so that we can tiptoe away 'in support'.

    Oh - its all going awfully well.

  • Comment number 46.

  • Comment number 47.

    #26 I could not help a hollow laugh at our two freeloader princes bringing succour to a few JFs - no expense spared.

    Yes Barrie, I always find this posturing ridiculous, how can they have any idea, you only really know if you live the JFs life. I read recently 1 in 3 Sowetans are HIV positive, and want to be amalgamated into S.Africa, but they're not wanted there! I still have strong suspicions about HIV, I keep wondering if it was an invented disease like Myxy for rabbits. As a scientist what do you think?

    In Britain, we have the consequences of asbestos, infected blood products, miners' illnesses etc, all being strung out while claimants die off.

    Yup my ma in law died of Mesothelioma, no proof of where she ingested asbestos, so obviously no claim. Asbestos is everywhere, probably in the swirling or dotty ceiling above your head, and if you start rubbing it, it showers down on you! She was a teacher, and apparently it's pretty common in teachers, all those old asbestos clad, because of fire risk, classrooms. Hhhhmmm and what about all those children, hhhmmm.

  • Comment number 48.

    junkies, flickies, singies, housies
    it's all temporary, sweeties

  • Comment number 49.

    #48 addendum

    shame really for you, whole hoards of men and women, drilling, banging, signalling, flashing, mocking, sacking and everything else that's involved, against a 56-year old, 154 cm twirler and you haven't been able to convince her.

    Sad, or what?

  • Comment number 50.

    Question Time

    Amanda Patel Marry Me

    Bopal...20 years ? and counting eh septic lawyers/liarse defective childrens abound...even now, they are only eyes mmm

    Exon valDies 20 years septic lawyers/LieArse mmm

    Niger Delta... still a bloody MESS... they are only N's eh

    Piper Alpha.. oh dear

    how many more who nose


    Sit Back and Watch the SpepTics LOSE another War {experts in their field)

    ear Note foot note the old boy who mentioned haliburton if True BP should counter sue, (sue who)take twenty years to sort the mess

    the yanks Pollute more of the Planit than The Rest of world put 2gether?

    Oil have 2 think on this So should U

  • Comment number 51.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 52.



    I somehow doubt it, whatever Dimitry says. They'll have to pay a hefty price for the damage, which they are preparing for, but annhilation?


  • Comment number 53.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 54.

    #51 a slight correction

    Sorry, I should have said #33 but will you send me back the #32 one, please?


  • Comment number 55.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 56.


    You said you were going away for a few days but judging from your posts yesterday, you must have taken your iPhone with you. Am I right?

    Hope you're fine and the weather is good. It's a bit cloudy in London today.


  • Comment number 57.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 58.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 59.

    awaiting further con, thats a new one does it bother me NAH I no that someone has read it, I speaks more Truth than nulabour ever did.
    bbc bias rules, not in my book, handy for A lot of things, politicks isnt one of them

  • Comment number 60.

    Old News

    Milliband trying to whisk water into a thick cream is comic even though new labour had no society building plan or science and jacked up on market fundamentalism and foreign wars.


    another 'god' of society humbled in the ashes. The military, the banks, the political class, the climate scientists now the oil industry.


    So NN want a monarchist role gamers event?

  • Comment number 61.

    #36 mindys_housemate

    "you can hate me again, for whatever, i don't care. But don't criticise me for trying to maintain a nicer atmosphere of dialogue and discussion on the blog. Its up to you, but: ..Please?"

    1. When people are trying to spread notions of racial differences on this page plus Holocaust Denial and National Socialism is that what you would call "nice"?

    2. The likes of Jaded_Jean have used every ruse available to discourage others from posting and numbers would consolidate around a "cyber-norm" where people could say Hitler was a peace lover and they don't laugh. I don't recall you showing up and condemning them.

    3. Some of them don't post anymore not because of my using "hate" but because of my simply reflecting on what they said and then asking for the beef. If somebody tries, seriously, to put forward the notion that the Holocaust "was made up to put people off statists" and it was done by ..... statists then the sheer stupidity of what they are saying condemns them. So they slope off as they know ultimately they are promoting tosh.

    4. It is possible that from time to time I will wrongly guess that a "new" poster is simply a reincarnation of an old poster who would try to spread their poison - hence jaded_jean -> statist and probably gnuneo. So I am sorry if that happens but then if people are cheerfully, for instance, ranting about the alleged Jewish hegemony and suggesting that "Hitler had to do what he did" because the Jews "were an internal political and economic threat" and others chime in then what do you expect?

    5. If you are passionate about politics then you enjoy putting forward your ideas and challenging those of others.

    I don't hate you and I hope you have a "nice" day and that you have a lovely cup of tea to calm down your nerves in the face of my "extreme" emotions.

    Looking up the page by the way I don't see any false accusations and if you do then you should report them to the moderator.

    It is OK to ask questions and to refer to previous posts.

  • Comment number 62.

    gango & singie and whoever else might be interested:

    What it is with the self-appointed master, mousey housey, is an extreme form of pathological jealousy and 'love' of winding people up, whoever it might be. He 'can' do what he wants, cheat & all, but will not those he has an eye on, particularly myself, do, or even in his own mind, feel or think, what I do feel or think, and what is my fundamental civil right, not talking of basic respect of another human being. As he himself says, he is 'emotionless' and the world is supposed bow to his right pointer or else. Just look in the NHS hospitals to see what I mean. Stalin reborn. Never mind Hitler and probably now De Gaulle as well. It's all in one with mousey housey.



  • Comment number 63.

    French resistance:
    Interesting report, albeit known. Accounts from the old French boys were very powerful. When I glimpsed the images of the German officers and solders in this report, I couldn't help but notice how smartly dressed they were in their uniforms...and then quick as a flash, I had an image of some youth on a skateboard accusing folk in the street of been Nazi sympathizers and BNP members..and something about mark Collet and Nick Griffin was uttered I think. Then he morphed into a middle aged woman covered in black oil...shouting at the COE of BP at some congress commitee hearing.. "You should be jailed! should be jailed!" she screamed as she was dragged away.
    Moments later I'm staring at the Warkster whilst she went through the papers...I don't know what brought that on...very strange?!

  • Comment number 64.

    #62 addendum

    My impression is that mousey housey tries very hard to turn himself into Jeremy as well. Jeremy talks about hoovering and a few days later who do I see demonstrably in the street, a little moustachio man with a hoover pointing at me. These copy cats 'shows' and 'demonstrations' have been endless, absolutely endless..


  • Comment number 65.

    #34 repost: part 1.

    #gangy: apparently there was a previous poster called "Jaded_jean" that caused much anguish here. Of everyone who posts here in the last few weeks others have mentioned him(? Presumably!!), mim slightly more often, and yourself pretty much every day. I went back and read some of his posts, and i have to admit the few i read seemed slightly similar in style to myself, but we disagreed on just about everything i read of his. A pity he left before i could challenge him.

    the interesting thing however, was that from what i read of him, he seemed the kind of person who needed recognition - and quite possibly, even the kind of person who would carefully craft an 'alter-ego' who speaks 'lib-speak', and who constantly refers back to himself as the "Great Bogeyman" who *almost*-cannot-be-named.

    as for your comments above, merely agreeing with a few of the basic points even an extremist has (a vegetarian might have agreed with Hitler, a vietnam draft dodger with G W Bush for example), does NOT mean they agree with ALL of this lunatics views. Seems pretty obvious to me, that. Probably to most people, i'd say.

    over to you.

    BTW, your 'lib-speak' comments are actually pretty good, you should try actually believing in them though. Wear your heart on the sleeve a little bit. Show us you care, "gangy", Please??



  • Comment number 66.

    part 2.

    missed tonight's NN show, recorded the wrong channel as well. But just watched the Doc Who from last week, omg what the HADES is going to happen NEXT week??? :/

    #25: Jericoa, yes all the way.

    #26: i believe a crash can still be avoided, but we have to start *soon*. Actually, even sooner than that.

    #28: more an accident waiting to happen because of the lax regulations, i think. It was going to happen *sometime* - just like the financial "crash". It is slightly heart-warming that Obama has used this incident to push for America's localised, post-oil energy production, but it is for sure that the US Oil Companies (other US Oil Companies than BP that is, as it is also holding much US Pension Funds!) are going to make a mint out of the Butchering of BP.

    expecting Cameron to stand up to Washington is like expecting Athens to stand up to Rome, leave the guy alone imho.

    ----but pick on the Shazbot for not supporting new high-tech and Green industries!!! :angry:

  • Comment number 67.

    #46: indeed. BP is in very heavy seas, i now wonder if the UK Govt is going to "part-nationalise" BP in order to socialise THOSE debts as well?

    #47: as far as i am aware, despite many failed attempts to prove its existence before this, the official scientific record of HIV/AIDS is that it first appeared in Africa in an area that a couple of years before had been used as a test-bed for a new US vaccine. There is of course no proof possible, but its an interesting coincidence. ...Running the World?

    hope you are enjoying your hols, brighty.

  • Comment number 68.

    #63: surprised the mods let that through. I suspect instead of watching NewsNight as you intended, you accidentally switched over to Chris Morris's 'NewsNiiiiiiiiight'.

    explains a lot, wouldn't it?

  • Comment number 69.


    ALL energy providers face a very tough time ahead. All developing technologies carry risk. Alleviating those risks cost money. Loads a money! Ever has this been thus with progress hasn’t it?

    Think trains, bridges, lighthouses, motor cars, the wheel......... I think a little research will indicate very high numbers of deaths and disasters as a percentage of population involved in industry.

    If we have Elf and Safety even as stringent as it is now I doubt the wheel would have been invented. The infernal combustion engine certainly stopped in its tracks.

    I live in an area where many people I know are involved in energy industry (most oil and Gas) and ALL KNOW that they work in a dangerous environment. ALL also know that corners are cut in order to get the job done. Those I have spoken to recently would put the split of responsibility of doing so about 50/50 at the door of the individual and the organisation.

    IN no way does this detract from the eco effects of the Gulf of Mexico spill, nor from the business which puts profit before safety and ecological factors. BP you can be sure are not the only or the worst.

    Name a business whose bottom line, whose reason d’etre is not to make money. If you find one they are either
    a) Failing
    b) A charity or voluntary organisation
    c) Third sector

    Holiday is FAB thanks. Scotlands west Coast in 23 deg clear bright still blue sunshine is about as close to heaven on earth as I think it possible to get. Add those I love around me, wonderful produce to enjoy............. No Gasoline alley for me. Here is where I am to be laid when the time comes.


    Don’t have i-phone. Just posted from home (laptop) before leaving - now on mobile Broadband.


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