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Wednesday 28 April 2010

Sarah McDermott | 11:45 UK time, Wednesday, 28 April 2010

More detail on what we'll be doing on tonight's Newsnight:

Gordon Brown has said he's "mortified" after being caught on microphone describing someone he had just spoken to as a "bigoted woman".

Michael Crick's been blogging on Brown's 'bigot' blunder all afternoon and he'll be bringing us the latest on the story tonight.

Then Jeremy will be joined by Olly Grender, Danny Finkelstein and Peter Hyman to discuss Gordon's gaffe and how it might impact Labour.

Paul Mason will be investigating the likelihood of a spreading crisis as the euro falls to a fresh one-year low against the dollar amid speculation over the future of the Greek economy.

And comedian Danny Robins will be here with the finale of our Newsnight party anthems project. Danny has been busy helping create songs which sum up what each of the three big political parties stand for.

Tonight Ben Bradshaw, Sarah Teather and Grant Shapps will be giving their reaction to the election anthems written for them by new ravers Hadouken!, pop duo Right Said Fred and grime act Nu Brand. And he'll be joined in the studio by some of the musicians who took part.

Join Jeremy at 10.30pm on BBC Two.
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Here's what we're planning for tonight's programme:

David Grossman will be exploring the different scenarios and outcomes that we might be waking up to post-election, with the help of Olly Grender, Peter Hyman and Danny Finkelstein.

European markets have continued to fall heavily amid speculation over the future of the Greek economy, and Paul Mason will be investigating the likelihood of a spreading crisis as the euro falls to a fresh one-year low against the dollar.

Michael Crick is in the West Midlands to watch preparations for tomorrow's leaders' debate.

And comedian Danny Robins will be here with the climax of our Newsnight party anthems project. Danny has been busy helping create songs which sum up what each of the three big political parties stand for.

Tonight Ben Bradshaw, Sarah Teather and Grant Shapps will be giving their reaction to the election anthems written for them by Hadouken!, Right Said Fred and Nu Brand. And we'll be joined in the studio by some of the musicians who took part.

More details later.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    :o) I look forward to my favourite trio of Danny/Olly/Peter with Jeremy tonight and also the musicians who are coming on the show too.

  • Comment number 2.

    Much has been said about the Lib Dems having to do a deal with one of the "larger" parties - but there may be enough smaller parties and also I can't see why Labour and the Tories can't cosy up. New Labour are actually pretty much where the one nation Tories used to be.

    I hope that if the Lib Dems don't get a referendum on PR that at best they play long for a period and then pull the plug on them.

    I don't see why the public, without media hysteria, will not see that no deal could be done and that new decisive elections are needed.

    It would not be good for the country in these financially turbulent times but then again you need good foundations for a robust structure and at the moment there is little public trust or confidence in any of the parties.

    That's why their votes must be respected - Cameron can whitter on about the need for decisive margins but he has to win the votes and nobody is going to stop him.

    Still assuming the final debate goes ahead I feel that could be very decisive and that may push the vote one way or the other.

  • Comment number 3.

    So you get the feeling were on the verge of something today. Gold is going up, given the drift of view that the US and UK Govt have JP Morgan and HSCB short gold to keep the price under control and maintain value in the dollar and pound - well we will see what they can throw at gold now. Get the feeling if they cant hold a line it will shoot up from this point. And for those who don't get it, its not about gold its about what it means.

  • Comment number 4.

    On the Greek economic woes personally I don't see the Greek public accepting the cuts that they need - due to bad mismanagement - so I assume that despite best efforts they will leave the Eurozone or be ejected at some point.

    That then raises the question about whether market hysteria will do the same thing to Portugal and Spain and whether they would have to leave the Eurozone.

    They could all return but this is raising some serious question about Europe.

    From my perspective the EU would have been better off consolidating and working out internal reforms rather than trying to expand at break neck speed.

  • Comment number 5.

    On the anthems I am looking for a Right Said Fred victory. I won't sing along though as I sound like a strangled hyaena at a funeral.

  • Comment number 6.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 7.

    So what can I say to delight the English "nationalist" from Belfast kevseywevsey?

    He gets upset if you ask about his allegiances but on the other hand he thinks "the Griff" could be a big success and a king maker.

    Meanwhile the BNP "patriots" - or Haw Haws to the democratic readers - have made a big thing about British military symbolds like Spitfires and "our boys" in Afghanistan.

    kevseywevsey bragged about throwing bottles at and singing songs about the "British" army in the past.

    I suppose the over riding impression you get with the far right is the cult-like obsessions in the face of a reality that just does not confirm their beliefs.

    There is no science to show any distinct racial differences between the races hence the BNP could not muster anything more against the EHRC than "sniveling quango" when they were forced to comply with the law on membership rules.

    You can believe or not believe that they genuinely do not believe the Holocaust happened.

    But it is verging on the comical when some suggest that the Holocaust "was made up to put people off statists" and was done by .... "statists".

    Hitler was "a peace lover" - and they don't laugh.

    They rant on about the "Jewish hegemony" but in seventy to eighty years have never provided any evidence for it.

    Oh the dizzy heights the far right intellectuals achieve!

  • Comment number 8.

    On the debate I wonder whether the party leaders will have to explain whether or how they will fit in their presumed plans for economic reform and better regulation with what the US is doing?

    Having created even larger banks with the various mergers will they have to separate them with the associated turmoil?

    Will they be able to spot the Fabulous Fab bankers who allegedly are prepared to take fraudulent or irresponsible deals in the face of a near collapsing market that they helped create?

    Will Repo 105 issues be a thing of the past for accountancy purposes? Will fraud laws be amended? Will there be a whistle blowing charter to protect honest employees from banks retribution?

    How and when does the economy get rebalanced?

    This last debate is THE debate in my world and I hope that they all get thoroughly grilled.

  • Comment number 9.

    HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE NOT!

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649012.stm

    In these unguarded moment, is this when the truth really comes out, just what brown thinks of the electorate. Yes we're all idiots brown, to not want our country packed and bursting at the seams, as you would like all that tax and customers, and votes for labour.

  • Comment number 10.

    THE BROWN MAGIC RUBBED OF ON Mrs DUFFY!

    She is reported to have said: "All these Eastern Europeans, where are they coming from?" (For which sentiments Brown, allegedly, called her a bigot.)

    Later - allegedly - (as the affliction took hold) Mrs Duffy said: "Mi mi mi mi Mr Speaker - he just won't talk about policy, only personality!"

  • Comment number 11.

    On the Brown being overheard talking about a voter:

    ' Asked what she had said, he is heard to reply: "Ugh everything! She's just a sort of bigoted woman that said she used to be Labour. I mean it's just ridiculous. I don't know why Sue brought her up towards me." '

    On the one hand that's fair depending on what the woman said but it is perhaps worrying that Brown did not see the need to try and win back the voter rather than leave such people to the far right.

    On this page when you come across posters who "don't like to visit London due to the racial mix" the best you can do is point out that there is no science behind the notions of racial difference and the differences that do exist are cosmetic adaptations to climate.

    Almost everybody is agreed that immigration needs to be far better controlled than it has been under New Labour but most do not get sucked into the far right lies.

  • Comment number 12.

    THE BIGOT PARTY SURGES INTO A HUGE LEAD

    If Mrs Duffy is a Bigot, I assert Britain is well represented by her (but is too cowed to say so). A vote for the Bigot Party is a vote for good old British common sense. And I'll bomb anyone who says otherwise.

  • Comment number 13.

    G01 # 4 - I posted on this earlier today on yesterday's NN blog in more detail. I agree with you that expanding the EU seems daft at the present time given the problems the EU has. And frankly, I'm not sure I'm keen on the likes of the Ukraine joining given the antics in its parliament earlier this week. It made Nigel Farage's outburts in the European Parliament seem positively tame.

    But I don't think what is happening in the bond markets is necessarily market hysteria. As you say, imposing cuts will be politically very difficult in Greece, Portugal, Spain etc and will result in massive social unrest. The markets are therefore worried whether the cuts can be delivered. My view is that these negative sentiments will affect the UK's ability to borrow and we will see cuts in the UK sooner and deeper than any of the politicians are suggesting.

    There is also a real risk of the sovereign debt crisis causing a new European banking crisis. You only have to look at the exposure of the Europen banks to the sovereign debt of Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. It's 100s of billions of Euros. What I'm not sure of is whether the Germans are prevaricating in their rescue attempts with a view to forcing the greatest possible autserity measures from the Greeks or if they really don't want to bail the Greeks out. As I say, given the implications for the German banks in not bailing out Greece, I think the bail out will go ahead. But take a look at the share prices of the big German, French and Spanish banks (Credit Agricole, Deutsche Bank etc.).

  • Comment number 14.

    A bigot mm I no where the bodies ate buried u put them there don't forget Gordon along with other virus tb

  • Comment number 15.




    Surely if the woman was saying something that might be offensive - seemingly about East Europeans - then the Prime Minister has every right to voice an opinion? Surely bigotry is not acceptable in this day and age.

    The BBC should review it’s footage to hear what the woman said, that is just as important as the sound loop of what Mr Brown said ... in private!

  • Comment number 16.

    The vacuum that Mr Clegg has filled has nothing to do with Conservative party policies- and everything to do with UK voter perceptions of the last Parliament; the bungling performance of Labour while in govt; Parliament's & Labour party dysfunctionality and sleaze; and, probably most important: to do with voters' acute, abundant awareness- albeit not often articulated- of the almost incomparable in history precipices that the UK is hurtling towards:

    1) the creation of a member-country-destroying EU superstate;

    2) the bust up of the UK (caused primarily by Labour's 1/2 baked, incompetent, corruptly-motivated 'devolution' programme);

    3) the City's subjugation to and disemboweling by overseas' financial centre's;

    4) the neutering and grievous diminishing of the UK's once esteemed-world-wide armed forces;

    5) the UK's armed forces' centuries of allegiance to the Crown replaced with being answerable to Brussels;

    6) the removal of the UK from its 6-decade-long role filling one of the UN's permanent-5 Security Council positions;

    7) the relegation of the UK from being one of the world's best innovator and inventor nations to a country- or 4 separate countries- that has/have less high-tech and industry research and development competencies and depth than many third world countries....

    Contrary to what some commentators in the UK are saying, the UK's Conservative party is being viewed by overseas' audiences as exemplary in its development of sell-able, needed policies:

    "Canada and Britain: a tale of two oppositions", Globe and Mail, April 11-2010:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/canada-and-britain-a-tale-of-two-oppositions/article1529772/ -

    "British Conservatives present, to use Leader David Cameron 's own words, ‘a progressive party in tune with the modern world,’ and the policies match the rhetoric. Canadian Liberals have much to learn...."

    "... in addressing their policy deficit, Liberals should closely study the performance of the Conservative Party in the current British election..."

    ---------------------------
    ---------------------------

    AN EU SUPERSTATE IS NOT REQUIRED FOR THE EU TO CONSTRUCTIVELY MEET ITS FOUNDERS' INITIAL OBJECTIVES* AND WOULD END UP CONFLICTING WITH THEM...

    Within an EU structured as an an 'aligned to-varying degrees' economically, politically and in internal legal & social-policy ways group of nations, the EU's member nations can, to a comparatively large degree, counterbalance each other in terms of polices, laws, directives AND FOREIGN ENDEAVORS...

    In contrast, nations incorporated into an EU structured as an amalgamated superstate, will lose their abilities to moderate, effect and block the development and implementation of polices, laws, directives AND FOREIGN ENDEAVORS of the EU superstate...

    ... a superstate that would have 'regions' replace member countries...

    ... a superstate that would continue to have Brussels-based bureaucrats whose primary objective is the creation of an ego-motivated Goliath to stride the world's stages as its main purpose...

    ... contradicting the main motivations for the founding of the bodies that preceded the EU: eliminating potential causative factors on the Continent and amongst its countries that previously have led to and could in the future lead to ethnic intolerance, negative prejudices, inequitable application of christian principles, legal tenets, and wars...

    AN EU PRESIDENT, "FOREIGN MINISTER"; "AMALGAMATED MEMBER-COUNTRIES' MILITARIES" & THE LISBON TREATY GENERALLY- ARE UNASHAMEDLY DESIGNED TO FACILITATE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF AN EU SUPERSTATE... A SUPERSTATE THAT WOULD FUNCTION FIRST AND FOREMOST TO SATIATE THE DANGEROUS, EGO-MOTIVATED AGENDA'S OF CLOSED-MINDED BUREAUCRATS...


    * ALIGNMENT- TO REASONABLY VARYING DEGREES- OF MEMBER NATIONS' SOCIAL, ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL POLICIES/LAWS...


    _________________
    Roderick V. Louis,
    Vancouver, BC, Canada

  • Comment number 17.

    LIBDEMS WILLFULLY BLIND TO EU CULTURES' REALITIES- & THE HUGE INTERNATIONAL DANGERS OF AN EU SUPERSTATE!!

    It's plain that one of the biggest challenges for members of the UK Libdem party is acknowledging mainland-Europe's cultural and historical realities as they are, not willfully blindly seeing mainland-Europe, and by extension- the EU- as they would like them to be....

    This would require an honest acknowledgment by prospective Libdem politicians, party members and others of:

    1) What 'Europe's countries' peoples' unequivocally demonstrated for 800-years worst propensities are*; and are evidenced contemporarily**

    2) The fact that the 'good Europe' (EU) of today COULD CHANGE TO A BAD EUROPE OVERNIGHT;

    3) The fact that the likelihood and potential of today's 'good Europe' turning into a bad Europe increases with the greater integration and amalgamation of EU member nations into each other and within a 'superstate EU';

    4) The fact that if EU member nations such as the UK lose their sovereignty and are subsumed into a superstate EU, opposing the dominant culture (or maybe 2 cultures) that eventually control the majority of EU structures, bureaucratic and political posts, etc- and hence set the superstate's 'internal and/or foreign-policies and international MILITARY OBJECTIVES will not be possible...;

    5) The fact that should the EU- as a 'superstate' of 600 million people- turn bad while the UK was irretrievably bound into it- the UK, its peoples and its politicians would have no effective recourse to oppose UK military and materiel resources being, in effect, hijacked for improper purposes...;

    The US/UK 'special relationship', while not perfect, is at least a relationship between two sovereign states, with each country free to make its own decisions and set its own objectives on the world stage as it sees fit...

    While it is true that closely bound histories along with common mercantile, legal, trade, democratic and global political principles and philosophies have often acted to encourage constructive alignment of UK and US endeavors world-wide since the end of WW II, the UK has always had a "national choice" of whether or not to participate in US geo-political objectives...

    Although criticized by many, the recent Iraq and Afghanistan operations are good examples of the 'superstate' that is the US initiating international endeavors in which the UK participated- only after freely making a democratic decision to do so...

    Should the UK be amalgamated into a superstate EU, no such "free choice" would be available to the UK as to whether or not to participate in a superstate EU's global 'projects', endeavors and/or military fracas's...

    The UK can best be enabled to continue doing good around the world- and to further its own reasonable interests- humanitarian, trade, militarily or otherwise- as an independent nation continuing to work closely with the United States, British Commonwealth, Nato, G 20, IMF, World Bank and similar bodies and as a member of the U.N.- while retaining its 6-decade long position filling one of the permanent-5 places on the UN's Security Council- which the UK would lose if assimilated into an EU Superstate...

    These objectives are not conflicted by the UK as a member of a multi-speed, non-superstate EU (IE: an aligned-to-varying degrees economically, politically and in internal legal & social-policy ways group of nations)...

    But removing all one's (the UK's) chips from an 'international bank' (UK sovereignty on the world stage) that has served one- the UK- well for centuries and putting these chips into a "very troubled history 'bank'" (European Continent) which has a centuries-long, uncontradicted track record of internal malfeasance and board-room bust ups- would only be recommended by the most intellectually dishonest and dangerously naive...


    * Ego driven militarism; religious intolerance; persecution of minorities; never-ending wars; overseas land & property theft and subjugation of overseas peoples for the benefit of 'Europe's' country's peoples...

    ** Think the Balkans early 1990's- 2010



    __________________
    Roderick V. Louis,
    Vancouver, BC, Canada

  • Comment number 18.

    BREAKING NEWS! OED ACCEPTS NEW VERB: TO GOBIT

    The verb to gobit (gob-it condensed) is used when some pompous, pious self-proclaimed saint, inadvertently CONFIRMS that he is rude, boorish and quick to blame aides.

    The example given in the OED reads: 'The Brown gobit, was to be expected, considering all we have heard of his darker side.'

  • Comment number 19.

    LESS POSTURING ON EMPTY ISSUES BY CANDIDATES NEEDED

    Rather than using "devoid-of-reason" histrionics to manipulate voters over possible cancellation of an extensively flawed, dangerously economized warship build programme- the new aircraft carriers- why aren't candidates from the UK's main political parties campaigning to have:

    A) The RN's remaining 2 aircraft carriers- HMS Ark Royal & Illustrious, Helicopter carrier HMS Ocean, Amphibious Assault ships HMS Albion & Bulwark; and the RFA's 4 Bay class LSD's ALL fitted with technologically up-to-date missile-based anti airborne threat defense systems AND fitted with with the communications equipment & sensors required for 'Cooperative Engagement Capability' (CEC); and

    B) The planned new aircraft carriers fitted upon build-completion with technologically up-to-date missile-based anti airborne threat defense systems AND fitted with with the communications equipment & sensors required for 'Cooperative Engagement Capability' (CEC); and

    C) the 6 Type-45 Destroyers currently undergoing construction & sea trials FULLY FITTED OUT with the suites of weapons, defences, communications and other equipment that members of the MoD & Type-45's designers originally intended for/identified for the Type-45 Destroyers; and

    D) sufficient numbers of FULLY EQUIPPED Type-45 Destroyers to be built, IE: in addition to the 6 Type-45s under going construction/sea-trials, an additional 8 to 10, ASAP; and

    E) an explicitly delineated, 10-year or longer 'capabilities plan' for the RN, that would have to contain a compressed build schedule for Type-45 Destroyers*; comprehensively fitted, technologically leading-edge aircraft carriers; a replacement class of surface combatant for the RN's aging and obsolescent Type-22 and Type-23 Frigates; and a sufficient number of capable, versatile and technologically up-to-date support vessels???


    * fitted with legitimately "ultra-modern" equipment and weapons systems:


    http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/l_and_a_as_advanced_gun_system.html

    ... and not fitted with equipment & weapons systems that have been canibalized from 2 and 1/2 decade-old decommissioned warships:

    "Navy destroyers face further worries"
    :

    http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/agenda/Navy-destroyers-face-further-worries.5990942.jp



    ________________
    Roderick V. Louis
    Vancouver, BC, Canada

  • Comment number 20.

    " Mrs Duffy also complained about people on benefits. "There are too many who aren't vulnerable and they can claim, and people who are vulnerable can't get claims - can't get it," she said. "

    Mr Brown replied: "But they shouldn't be doing that.

    "There is no life on the dole for people any more."


    David Cameron claims to represent change, but it would appear all that is on offer is blue tinged exact mirror image of Blair's anarcho capitalist Trotskyite agenda. As for the proposed cuts in incapacity benefit, many current claimants face being thrust even deeper into poverty than they are already. It would appear that the Tories aim to treat our genuine wealth producing hard working manual operatives like virtual slaves, hand them the virtual withering death sentence of JSA if they fail to reach an increasing retirement age in good health.

    Its now bad enough at present under Labour, a relative of mine in his fifties has a gammy leg due to the hard manual labour he has done throughout his life. However, because it mends up after a few days rest he can't claim IB as he could have done a few years ago. It is impossible for him to hold down a full time job, and he does not have the chance for time off in the hope that his leg will get better more permanently. The Tories proposed cuts to IB represent a stealth increase in National Insurance contributions for all heavy manual workers. Perhaps OK for those in soft often parasitic ten bob fat cat office jobs etc, but perhaps the net result could be that the brighter teenagers shy away from potential life long careers in hard manual work. Never mind, parasitic employment agencies can get cheap east European migrants to do it while our fit young people languish on the dole. Perhaps hardly surprising to find that the idea of stealing hard won rights from the most vulnerable in our society came from a potentially " socially useless " celebrity stock market parasite. Namely party hopping in a " hissy fit " like a naughty spoilt child who didn't get all his own way David Freud.

    Its all part of a celebrity stock market parasite inspired " Corporate Nazi " ideology where large corporations and fascist leaning NGO's lobby government to make everything as inefficient ( difficult ) and expensive as possible, especially for people living in rural areas. ( no cushy desk jobs available in rural areas ) A key part of the " Corporate Nazi " plan is the systematic dismantling of our welfare state whilst at the same time providing and expanding a virtual welfare state for the Banks and their stock market parasites.

  • Comment number 21.

    #56. a couple more lines

    Impact on the senses, impact on the soul,
    Impact on the justice, impact on the glow.

    mim

  • Comment number 22.

    what a load of hot air!

    just spend a minute to imagine the reactions someone like camoron goes through when he has to addressed 'The Great Ignored'. Poor little dear, steps out of his luxury personal jet, having his minions cringing and fawning around him - and then has to go treat the normal Public as though they are his Citizen equals!!

    --but you can bet now that there will be no equivalent 'slip' from the other Party Machines now.


    as for the European markets - the whole West is bankrupt. The US is bankrupt, the EU is bankrupt, the UK is bankrupt. The why is both simple and complex, but that is the basic fact.

    and we are in debt to our 'own' banks - we have printed money, and then borrowed it from the banks, only to put it back into the banks, to watch it disappear in bonuses and further speculation. We are now paying the banks interest on the money *we gave them*!

    i wonder if any of the Big 3£ Parties would give the British Public a referendum, as Iceland did, on the simple principle of reparation this artificially created debt?

    The Greens will.

  • Comment number 23.

    An unfortunate fact for me from the Guardian, I live one and half miles, with a prevailing wind, as the crow flys from the M2, and yes I hear the traffic morn and noon and night. And of course that's not too mention the jammed packed local roads. But then the South East, is the most densly crowded part of Europe, with the exception of Malta.

    Question: which motorway in England had the largest increase in maximum traffic flow from 2001 to 2008?

    Answer: M2. Up by 32%!!!!!

  • Comment number 24.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 25.

    DAMAGE LIMITATION

    How infinitely depressing to watch, as the Labour Machine tries to tell us we did not experience the real James G Brown in that incident. How insulting to be told that the utterly ersatz fiction is what we should swallow, and then return to power. Even the Catholic Church has not tried to tell us all the paedophile priests tripped over the carpet . . .

    Then up pops uber-weasel Burnham or Count Mandular, to tell us we didn't hear anything of note, and if we thought we did, we have nasty minds or suffer from delusions - the man is a deeply human saint. THIS is the kind of situation where, if media would get its teeth in, and hang on until the TRUTH is admitted, politics might be a little less vile. Brown even gifted a 'Freudian clue', saying as he babbled: "I wouldn't wish to have put myself in a situation" and then bent the syntax away to safety. Clearly that sentence SHOULD end: "where my TRUE nature is revealed!"

    Democastry is alive and well.

  • Comment number 26.

    The blunderful world of biggotry

    Brown’s gaff was a triple whammy as it showed;
    •his ‘friendly’smile and demeanour is faked;
    •his ‘random’ walkabout chats are normally specially selected; and
    •his use of language is poor and inappropriate:

    The two-faced aspect is expected from most diplomats and politicians. Last week it was the Tory’s shadow Home Secretary who was ‘caught out’ with his comments about homosexuals being refused a double bed by a guesthouse-keeper.

    The real problem in both cases is the conflict between one’s firmly-held beliefs and the loss of freedom of speech, with matters previously of conscience now controlled by legislation.

    By recent laws many of us now have a choice of being silenced, or run the risk of being criminalised for not immediately reversing our conscience on various issues that previously allowed personal discrimination.

    The term ‘bigot’ has been used several times on this blog where others disagree on issues such as uncontrolled immigration and homosexuality, even where no irrationality, animosity, hatred or hostility has been in evidence.

    “A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.” Animosity is a feeling of hatred arousing active hostility. (Wikipedia)

    To reverse some of the above - Vote Radical on 6th May

  • Comment number 27.

  • Comment number 28.

    A RIGHT REGULAR GOOD BLOKE (#27)

    A wonderful choice LIz. Bravo.

  • Comment number 29.

    gordon is just tired. i think after 3 years in govt ministers should have someone walking behind them saying 'remember that art a mere mortal'. otherwise they get inflated egos and start imagining they are walking around in togas or purple robes?

    gordon was always unelectable in a public vote. he only became leader because people thought at the time he was a brilliant chancellor who had banished boom and bust. all he did was hop on the wallstreet bubble and stop the fsa from regulating the excesses.

    even now it is still not illegal to wreck the country.

    i've lost count of the number of bigot jokes i've heard already.

  • Comment number 30.






    BBC News 24’s ‘Campaign Show’ at nine tonight ....

    If you’re ‘up before the Beek’ for an unpaid parking fine don’t allow Ms Her-own-man to act as your defence council ....

    Pretty soon ‘they’d’ be asking you your bodyweight to calculate the length of the rope!


    (For the record .... I don’t drive!)

    Ironically all four of the members of the public interviewed and - seemingly - a fair few of the e-mailers aren't that worried and appear 'not to be throwing stones ' ! Maybe most know they have at sometime committed the same sin!

    Shame that the 'hacks' ALL appear to be ArchAngels!

    Or is it that they are happy to be claiming the overtime?



    Immigration .... Safely discussed as ‘Overcrowded Britain’

    Everyone is talking about everyone talking about it, but nobody - still - is talking about it!






  • Comment number 31.

    BIGOTED ALREADY? (#29)

    Is that a bigoted 'already' on the end of your post, Jaunty, or a regular one?

  • Comment number 32.

    PICK AND MIX BROWN (#26)

    Do you notice how Brown has a scrabble bag full of focus-group words and phrases and goes readily into 'scatter gun' mode, making a variety of sentences and semi-sentences - with a peculiar syntax (some English) - going round and back, over and over, in the obvious belief that no one will notice. This approach was particularly evident when he left poor Mrs Duffy. The smile - for once - was genuine, but I doubt his obvious belief that he had 'fixed her' was justified.

  • Comment number 33.

  • Comment number 34.

    #28barrie:
    "A RIGHT REGULAR GOOD BLOKE (#27) A wonderful choice LIz. Bravo."
    Agreed;
    Ban broadcast debates between main parties, discriminating against small parties and independents, Electoral reform, free speech guaranteed, foxhunting taken out of the political debate, being a cultural "right" - in the same manner as halal slaughter, halt immigration - an environmental issue about "space", not "race".

    A true English-centred Robin - That's what I call RADICAL

  • Comment number 35.

    GO1 - My personel psychiatrist - you've forgot to mention the bells.

    Living in the westminster bubble really is very evident at times, especially when Gordon meets the faithful. Some Labour party hack voices concerns of European immigration, but gets called rotten for it. She'll still vote labour though won't she. Labour voters are generally very thick. Ah well, thats Gordon and Labour finished.

    Go1, can you help. I purchased some land in Lithuania for £7k and two transit vans some 10yrs ago. It has fishing and hunting facilities. Employed is some dozen or so locals who, when I'm there, treat me like a Lord. It was only an accidental purchase, I've no real interest in expanding, I'm only a humble blues player. When I'm in Europe I feel European. I always try and spend time in one of my camping lodge's.
    I meditate in wonderful surroundings and always feel connected to the universe, my heart flows with abundent love to everyone I meet but when I return home to blighty...I turn into a bigot. Can you please explain why that is...Go1, I'm seeking your help.

  • Comment number 36.

    Newsnight tries 'yoof T.V.' and fails abysmally.

  • Comment number 37.

    It is time now to bring to a close the incidents of the day. No one appears to care about the trauma Mrs Duffy has experienced,we saw the journalists speaking with her in an excited manner as she heard the Prime Ministers comments about her. Please give her some peace from all this intrusive and hurtful invasion of her privacy. Journalists are self indulgent individuals. No one has questioned the rightness of broadcasting to the whole world these hurtful comments. It might have damaged Labours election chances--that is not important. Mrs Duffy has been deeply hurt,that is very important.

  • Comment number 38.

    News Night devoted almost a full half hour to Mrs Duffy as did much of the other news media... Between all the opinion poll ratings and constant analysis of petty political points sadly i and many others still don't know who to vote for! What are the policies? Stop manipulating the voters!! Will anyone remember this woman's name next year? Are we still not at war and in financial crisis!!

  • Comment number 39.

    indig @ 26

    I've cut and pasted these words from your post, I hope you don't mind me doing so.

    "bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices"

    My! it sounds like a fair description of....wait for it......GO1

  • Comment number 40.

    Great to see Nu Brand & Hadouken! in the studio, even if the latter seemed oleginous :p
    Loved my favourite trio on the couch with Jeremy :o)
    Deary me, Peter admitted he complains about people behind their back.....well there's honesty, and then there's dumbness.........
    On the independents, I found this site:
    http://www.independentnetwork.org.uk/candidates
    which gives ALL the independents standing for the 2010 election......

    Wonder how Jeremy will grill Gordon on Friday........... ;o)

  • Comment number 41.

    I thought Peter Mandelson looked like a ghost tonight.

  • Comment number 42.

    who would have thought it a british prime minister who doesnt like bigots.

    i can see why the right would baulk at the thought.

  • Comment number 43.

    37.
    Well lets encourage Mrs Duff to negotiate a fee for her story to the Tabs, she'll get a big fat cheque and she can go and live next door to Billy bragg in mansion ally. You won't feel so bad about her nor her plight then will you. I see this as an opportunity for the woman. At the very least she can get her front-room decorated and get a new TV...plasma 50 incher.

  • Comment number 44.

    #33 addendum

    I suppose I could have also said 'being crashed'.

    Lucxily, it looks like more and more people realise what precisely is going on. I can see it in so many faces of the passers-by. Alas, far too many people are still being corruptible. What's most upsetting is ordinary young men being drawn into the silly willy game.

    mim

  • Comment number 45.

    wow duffy has sold her story to the sun, and according to max clifford she should earn around £250 000 in the next week or so. (at least £100 000 from the sun).

    it was sky who failed to turn off browns live feed once he had got into his car.

    would murdoch have used the feed if it was from cameron?

  • Comment number 46.

    Come on Newsnight. I have been listening to the report on Gordon Brown's unfortunate remarks made in private after speaking to the lady in Rochdale today. I expected the usual sneering remarks from Jeremy Paxman - one of the most disliked people on the BBC and perhaps in the entire country - but I became increasingly annoyed by the sanctimonious rubbish being spouted by the guests. Media hacks themselves, who must often have been in exactly the same situation and reacted in exactly the same way, they could not resist the opportunity to sling their handfuls of mud in the hope that some of it would stick. No honest and balanced reflection there then. More like a pack of animals scenting blood. Everybody seemed to have forgotten that a) the situation we are all in is very serious and we as voters need all the help we can get to understand what the big issues are, b) our votes are far too precious to be cast away or cast aside because of some hypocritical media hype-about-nothing, and c) even our politician are only human and have the same limits and weaknesses as the rest of us. Gordon Brown has shown that today, tomorrow it could just as easily Clegg, Cameron - even you, Paxman?

  • Comment number 47.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 48.

    #21 an extra couple of lines

    Quite a bit of impact in the recent days
    With most people trying to 'appropriate'.

    mim

  • Comment number 49.

    #46

    Rosemary

    You couldn't be more detached from the truth than you are, especially as far as Jeremy Paxman is concerned.

  • Comment number 50.

    #21/48

    mirror-mim spreads her glimmering, tentacles of Maya,
    almost meaning, conversations with soul-mirror whispers.

  • Comment number 51.

    Rosemary@46

    Yes, the media are making the most of this story. But the jist of the story which has somewhat been lost in reports that I have seen is thus: A life long Labour supporter took to task Gordon Brown about Immigration and its consequencies in her town; a tabbo subject for all three main political parties. Gordons private reaction was confirmation that he and his party are oblivious to the concerns of real people. His comment claiming Mrs Duffy was a bigot was very telling and gave the real measure of Brown and his Govt.

    I've heard some killer jokes and monos tonight about 'Bigotgate' and I'd like to share them with you...but I won't because they're gold...real gold. And as for Paxman the 'most hated....' Rather strong words there I think Rose. Who would you rather have interviewing our politicos?...Jon Snow, Richard Madley..Peirs Morgan. You can't sit down with a politician with tea and buttered scones on a trolly and get them to open-up honestly - unless they're hawking their diaries. Nope, Love him or 'hate' him, He's the best griller on the box we've got. And he sets the bench mark that others only dream of getting close to; ask Jon Snow, he can't get outa Paxmans shadow.

    Yeah, Jezzer getting defence from me again i think in less than one week, and like, he needs it right!.... I ain't nobody's groupie...well, maybe the Warks.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01214/pkirsty31_1214548c.jpg

  • Comment number 52.

    Watching the Goldman Sachs testimony Ive been wondering if these people invent these exotic sounded terms to both distance themselves from the moral dereliction and almost sex it up - make it seem 'important' - terms that are juicy - "synthetic collateralized debt obligations"- they enjoy saying that-right, instead of - 'out right gambling at the races type stuff'. That this language creates a culture that both serves to qualify their own feeling of 'importance' and alienates everyone else - keeps those that arnt the 'best of the best out'- ordinary Joe in the street, even a potential jury aimed in their direction. The Senators did a good job getting at them by thoroughly learning their language - they tore at it with morals; what looked and sounded like characters from a loony-toon get up replied as the m's hit home and distorted the reality of their world.

    The stupid stuff yesterday - is behind us ?

    The significant commentators you have on - SF and others saying were not in the same league as Greece, Spain and the rest, let me tell you - its every bit as bad and will hit home for those who will be made unemployed soon. So please try to hold back on the - "synthetic collateralized debt obligations" type stuff - we don't believe you any more and the reality of the super rich 'shorting' everyone else is round the corner. At the moment no political party will mention doing something about the BBC well its going to happen - the employment place for Oxbridge at our forced cost is coming to an end - go blame the super rich and daffy duck.

  • Comment number 53.

    #50

    it's stalking flattery
    don't flatter yourself

  • Comment number 54.

    #51

    Kevsey

    It's not only that more often than not Jeremy grills well and effectively, but he seems to be, in fact, widely liked, copied and admired. I've seen/am seeing it with my own eyes and have heard with my own ears from quite a few of his fellow journalists and a couple of BBC bosses how much they like him and appreciate him as a colleague. He's bound to have a few jealous colleagues about but then one can't win them all. Those, however, also seem to aspire to something he has and they haven't got by way of either deception or imitation.

    mim

  • Comment number 55.

    @ Rosemary #46 - You're a member of "Team Brown" aren't you? Perhaps you were once exposed by him......and no Jeremy is one of the nation's favourites, unless of course you've been grilled by him in the past..... As for the remark "media hacks" do you mean highly trained journalists who not only seek out the truth, and analyse it? How would you have felt if you were that lady who was called a "bigot" by the PM, and have it broadcast on every single media outlet?

  • Comment number 56.

    #52

    Are you taking over
    the streets
    and the BBC
    money pinching flicks?

  • Comment number 57.

    #46 Sorry Rosemary, but I'm a fan of Jeremey as well. Who else asks the questions most people are thinking? No one to my mind.

    I don't like all the pussy footing media, who are scared to ask the awkward questions. Sometimes he gets it wrong, yes, but at least he doesn't shout as so many politicians do.

    I like it best when he sits back and just watches the childish rants in front of him, there's nothing like silence.

    On Brown I think it shows perfectly his attitude to the electorate, he's a bigot because he thinks all should agree with his policies.

  • Comment number 58.

    DEFENDING/DEFINING ALL THAT IS BROWN (#46)

    As if the crafted protestations of Lord Mantis and Postman Pernicious, were not enough, now we have Rosemary Fitch constructively ignoring the disgraceful fact that BROWN TRADES ON HIS MORALITY, HONESTY AND DECENCY.

    In one act, Brown has DEFINED WESTMINSTER AND ALL ITS DENIZENS.

    SPOILPARTYGAMES

  • Comment number 59.

    #55

    Mistress76uk

    And what if Rosemary is a jealous male fighting for some long awaited 'privilege'?

    mim

  • Comment number 60.

    Unacceptable (no, that means next time we might have to show we didn't accept it after that).

    Appalling (no, that really is too far for one of our own, who is, after all, like us, 'only human', if now canned)

    Mortified.... that'll do, pig. For now.

    'I'm mortified I tell you. Mortified!'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1DEG6BWgp0

  • Comment number 61.

    THE BULLYING CULTURE

    Westminster is confrontational. Debate is won more on character assassination than substance.

    TV - whether information or entertainment - now sees bullying as 'edgy'.

    No surprise that bullying has taken hold in schools to fill the vacuum created by Great Tony's 'Education X 3' dumb-down.

    And then there is Jeremy Paxman - the best of world-leading British.

  • Comment number 62.

  • Comment number 63.

    Where do they all come from?

    Mrs Duffy asked about the eastern Europeans and "where are they all coming from?", a question which Gordi refused to answer, instead remarking that a million Brits are abroad as well.

    "They" mainly come from Poland; most of them would have preferred to go to Germany, but legislation from the Bundestag limited numbers for eight years, allowing a managed stream of migrant workers.

    Given that development, HMG were remiss in not following the same tack, apparently due to ridiculously low estimates of migrating numbers, supplied by - who knows? - a low profile civil servant, perhaps?

    As a result, local services and infrastructures were swamped in some areas and yet again, HMG dithered in channeling resources/funding to those in need, due to seriously faulty forecasting.

    Government of any persuasion, given these circumstances, are in a sticky place; if they admit they got estimates of migration wrong, they're incompetent, if they say there's nothing they can do now about the free movement of labour in the EU, they're scared voters will turn to anti-EU options and so Labour's choice is to brand people like Mrs Duffy as bigots, just as anyone who questions the conduct of Israel towards its neighbours is tarred with the anti-semitic brush."That'll shut them up!", says the political class.

    Britain is not swamped by immigrants; it may appear so in some neighbourhoods, particularly London and the south east, but it is not generally the case; indeed the Scottish government actively encourage EU migrants to bolster the workforce due to falling numbers.

    So maybe the LibDems are on to something when they talk about regionally directed immigration, but maybe expand to include EU migrants, based on skills needs across the country?

    And an amnesty for illegal immigrants sounds an easy way of boosting tax receipts.

    Emigration from the UK is not a comparator, as Gordi knows; look at the hundreds of thousands of unassimilated UK pensioners in Spain, receiving winter fuel payments; a drain on the public purse if ever there was one.

    And why don't indigenes take these jobs the Eastern Europeans get?
    Is the minimum wage too low, are benefits too high; are the British in the main poorly trained?

  • Comment number 64.

    #61

    A change of heart, singie, re: Paxo, or is there a trap there somewhere?
    I'm pleased, anyway, you're again renouncing education x3.

    mim

  • Comment number 65.

    DON'T BAN IN-EAR ENTERTAINMENT (#62)

    I use mine to blank out the awfulness of global reality.

  • Comment number 66.

    IRONY (#64)

    As Baldrick the Sage once said: "It's like goldy and bronzey".

    i should put a health warning on my posts Mim. (:o)

  • Comment number 67.

    THE PSYCHOLOGY OF GOOD GOVERNANCE - WHAT CAN BROWN KNOW?

    Disability that prevents working, is not just physical or mental, it is all too often 'attitudinal' - i.e. cultural. We used to have the 'Polish Work Ethic' in spades, but it eroded (was allowed to erode - WAS ERODED DELIBERATELY?)

    Panorama made visible the psychological component of the work ethic (for those with eyes to see) but an overweight Digby Jones, sporting an utterly incongruous hair 'style' was focused on symptoms (such as hair!!!) THAT HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND.

    Government peopled by ambitious, power-mad, devious juveniles, by its nature, will not want to look at the psychology OF ANY ASPECT OF LIFE.
    Yet that is where the solution lies. Until psychology and philosophy loom large in governance, we will continue downward.

    'Ps and Ks for cash' was followed by the allowances farce, and now we have the full election charade aka 'MARGINAL VOTES FOR MANIPULATIVE CASH'. The cherry on top, is Incapability Brown (as good as Westminster gets) and his 'loyal' cohorts, saying 'we all do it'.

    Here's the offer: IF YOU CAN CATCH ME CLAIMING I AM MORAL, TRUTHFUL, CARING AND NICE (!) while posting on here with the spleen I exhibit, I will remove myself - just as Brown should.

  • Comment number 68.

    #63 After reading KBs post which I think was very fair. (oopps labourism)

    I wondered about Scotlands immigration and found this....

    http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Scotland39s-population--on-the.6259415.jp

    Then I looked up land mass of UK and EU.

    UK http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/geography/britain.html

    EU (including us) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

    So Mr Brown the people leaving the UK have almost one and half million square miles to get lost in.

    The people moving in here only have 93 thousand, including Scotland.

    Not exactly fair or equal is it?

    I have read that the actual workers who leave only amount to 250,000 the rest are retiring or just travelling. Some to visit their home countries and relatives abroad.

    I believe it gets very cold in some parts of Spain, so they do use their winter fuel allowance.

    I know many british enclaves in France, and it is strange they don't mix with the french much. Language barriers?! I wonder why they move there!

    My question to Clegg would be how do you insist these immigrants stay in one place, that would be against their human rights, I'm sure a lawyer would soon suss that out.

  • Comment number 69.

    EU migration -
    The problem is no one is willing to tell the British electorate that they now belong to a Federal European Union, our borders with Europe are not ours any more, the migration policy between EU member states is decided in Brussels , it is roughly the same as in the USA between different states, free movement of people.

    As for the Lib Dem broader immigration or migration policy , it is not worth the paper it is written on , it breaks the UN Charter called Universal Declaration of Human Rights, in which it states -

    Article 13.

    * (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

    Article 16.

    * (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

    Article 23.

    * (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

    Article 25.

    * (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

    Conclusion-
    So you can not limit peoples movement or places of residents or where they wish to work, once you let them into your country. This UN charter is not new , it was made back in 1948 and was signed by the United Kingdom , it was in part, based on our own Magna Carta principals and the follow up Bills over the centuries of case law.

    Maybe if the MSM would discus these issues in detail, the public would be more informed and would understand what the situation is, then maybe Ministers of the Crown would not have to call people bigots !

  • Comment number 70.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 71.

    #53:

    to stalk is to walk behind, flattery or no,
    i prefer to be side-by-side, or nose to nose.


    do you have someone to rub noses with, on those long, lonely nights mim? x

  • Comment number 72.

    dear Auntie, when you censor posts due to content, would it be too much to ask for an mail-address we can write to? I realise this could lead to greater argumentativeness from certain posters, but it would allow calmer others to perhaps modify or remove the offending part of the article, not only leaving the rest of what are often no doubt interesting pieces, but also to make future such line-crossing less likely.

    surely this is not TOO much to ask, from our tax-payer funded service?

  • Comment number 73.

    attempted repost:

    #63:

    "Given that development, HMG were remiss in not following the same tack, apparently due to ridiculously low estimates of migrating numbers, supplied by - who knows? - a low profile civil servant, perhaps?"

    a great illustrator of events are the 'minority opinions' expressed at the time. There was a mentioned 'minority report' at the time of EU expansion, that warned of the effects of unlimited migration from those countries to the UK! It warned that the influx, UNLESS extra resources were put into already disadvantaged areas, those areas would suffer from social shortages, and cause *massive* social reaction.

    they knew this, because most migrant labour seeks to find the cheapest accommodation available - as someone who has working-travelled before, i know this to be the case, and so did all of those well-paid middle-upper class 'wipes who drew up the legislation. So suddenly the poorest areas had greater strains on their resources - and as we all know, the NuLabour Govt did bugger all, the Tories smugly looked the other way, and Clegg's LibDems carried on with their program to look like the Tories.

    why??

    what have the owners and funders of the Big 3£ parties got to gain from a growth in openly racist, fascist response from the working and underclasses?

    why would the Big 3£ prefer rage against poor, hard working immigrants, rather than more justified rage against the ultra-wealthy, the Bankers, Owners, Media Barons, 'Captains of Industry' and all their tax-avoiding ilk?

    ...or it could all big a big accident, caused by ill thought-out policies, and plain incompetence by those who have resided in Westminster as MPs, maxing their claims and bonuses, ordering our Soldiers to die for American aims, deregulating the Banks, cutting taxes on the ludicrously wealthy, allowing British Industry to go bankrupt or stolen by foreign companies, watching as the British Social Fabric rents and tears due to an enormous and growing Wealth Gap. It could be.

    that some have been involved in the core of these decisions, who have a good grasp of the 1930s however (not least Rupert Murdoch), and desire the insanity of a Fascist State that gives them 'Absolute Power' (lol), can surely only be denied by those lost in the Glamour and Narcissism of Presidential Debates for a Prime Ministerial system.

    the Leadership of the Tories, of NuLabour, of the LibDems are ALL corrupt, and either grossly incompetent or else criminally competent. The BNP is an MI5 puppet show, to give the poorest and angriest a feeling *their* wishes can be heard - and to raise anger against "non-British". The BNP has no ideas of how to rebuild Britain, and create British Jobs - except in paramilitary house-to-house checks, enforced ID Cards, and further extending the Surveillance Society. UKIP blame ALL our troubles on the Europeans, Johnny Foreigner yet again. Little mention of how we British will slash this Wealth-Gap - but lots of talk about how they will slash Social Payments to the poorest and neediest. £50Bn is a LOT of hospitals, schools and police, let alone roads, refuse recycling and libraries.

    It is only the Greens who have accurately analysed what got us into this mess (the Wealth Gap, and a Ruling Class in permanent power due to an ancient voting system), it is only the Greens who are honest about investing in Britain to create new industries, new jobs, and pay back the debt through economic growth. Granted, they have some silly policies also, such as regarding pornography as always exploitative and abusive, but that is small fry, easily changed.

    all the other parties are blaming Foreigners - only the Greens recognise the problems are home-grown (like MPs-Expenses-'Gate'), and the solutions are ALSO home-grown.

    so WHY did the NuLabour/Tory Govt allow in immigrants without also putting the extra resources in? Because that creates the kind of social-angst, that the Parties of the Rich can use to focus anger from the British Poorest onto largely weak and helpless immigrants, who have no way of defending themselves. Unlike, it almost needs no saying after the rest of this post, Britain's Uber-Wealthy.

    "And why don't indigenes take these jobs the Eastern Europeans get?
    Is the minimum wage too low, are benefits too high; are the British in the main poorly trained?"

    Thatcher openly boasted that she was turning the UK into a "low-wage, high profit" economy, the problem with that is that we normal citizens *don't* believe that our poorest should be living in absolute squalor and degradation, and that even children of the poorest should have a decent start in their lives. The benefits are already FAR behind the rate of Inflation, and have been for 30yrs or more since the Thatcherites came to power. The wealth of the richest has gone astronomical. Minimum wage is a terrible joke, Gawd forbid that companies should have to pay enough for their workers to live on, when the Owners can add another Billion to their bank accounts. The effective minimum wage in Denmark is over £11/hour - AND they have a lot of local cooperatives/capitalist partnerships. The Danes also invest 2-3 TIMES what we spend per capita on Education.

    so, training, benefits? Low wages? Corruption at the top i would say. And none of the Big 3£ are honest about wanting to change that - after all, they HAVEN'T SO FAR!!


  • Comment number 74.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

 

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