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Thursday 25 February 2010

Verity Murphy | 11:26 UK time, Thursday, 25 February 2010

UPDATE ON TONIGHT'S NEWSNIGHT:

Tonight we look at new guidelines on whether people will face prosecution over assisting suicide.

Emily will be joined in the studio by campaigner Debbie Purdy, who made legal history last year when she won her battle to have the law on assisted suicide in England and Wales clarified, and Alison Davis who appeared in our assisted suicide film last week to tell us why, despite debilitating illness, she opposes a loosening of the rules. You can hear more of her story here.

Tomorrow a bill will go before the House of Commons to outlaw vulture funds which, if passed, will curtail their ability to sue poor governments in English courts for millions that they can't afford. Tonight we have an investigation revealing that speculators subverted the international debt relief process for Liberia - scored by the World Bank as the second poorest nation in the world. We'll be hearing from Liberian President, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, and doorstepping vultures in New York.

You can watch our 2007 film in which we revealed the scandal of vulture funds by clicking here.

Plus we'll be reaching for the top shelf as we debate whether lads' mags should be age restricted to curb the sexualisation of children, and considering how the BBC managed to lose money hand over fist while redeveloping key new buildings, including Broadcasting House in central London.

Join Emily at 10.30pm on BBC Two.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is what we are planning for tonight's programme:

The director of public prosecutions, Kier Starmer, has set out full guidance on the law on assisted suicide in England and Wales, explaining what factors might mitigate against someone being prosecuted for helping another person to die.

Tonight. we will be talking to people at the heart of the debate.

Greg Palast has a fresh investigation into Vulture Funds - speculators who buy up third world debt cheap and then sue countries for 10 or 100 times what they paid for it.

And a Home Office study says lads' magazines such as Zoo and Nuts should be made top shelf and have age restrictions on sale - we will be debating the issue.

More details later.

Comments

Page 1 of 2

  • Comment number 1.

    Forgive me if I am wrong but I always thought that it was judges who "interpreted the law" to determine what Parliament actually meant when passing an Act; why now is the DPP usurping this role?

  • Comment number 2.

    Does it really matter if lads' magazines are age restricted? Anyone can access anything (and I mean anything) on the internet. Long gone are the days when boys would steal their father's copy of Playboy :p

  • Comment number 3.

    HHHHmmmmm more war anyone?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8534901.stm

    I understand the argentinian economy is in a terrible state, wouldn't be anything to do with that would it? Keep the publics eyes on their government being brave and strong, fighting to get the Falkland Islands, while the people struggle to live at home.

    What's with all these women leaders in south american countries? Are they being used as "useful idiots"?

  • Comment number 4.

    on USA 'Neutrality' on the Falklands.

    to quote one previous President ' you are either with us or against us'

    and to quote another [kennedy] 'Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in a period of moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.'

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy

  • Comment number 5.

    3.

    its a bit pot and kettle for the americas to tub thump

    maybe argentina will give their country back to the natives. Maybe the americans will give their country back to the natives tribes? Are not all the american states based on an european occupation of one sort or another?

    the uk troops need to stop being trashed for other people's wars when we might need them in good working order and ready to go ourselves. time to bring the troops home. let us show the usa what being 'neutral' means.

  • Comment number 6.


    What say Emily to popularising / raising the NN profile amongst the masses by appearing in 'Nuts' (in a tasteful way of course in so far as that is possible).

    Just look upon it as a necessary personal sacrifice to bring good journalism to the masses in the spirit of the 'new womens lib' i.e. having the freedom to use everything you have got to get what you want or for the greater good with no law or perception of social stigma to stop you.

    Is that not the uncomfortable truth of, 'the new Womens Lib'? Men have been doing that sort of thing...well ...forever! albeit by different methods. Should we actually be embrassing this or is it a question of 'being careful what you wish for' on the part of the feminist movement.

    I think it would be a really interesting invetigative journalistic expose and may bring quality journalism to a wider Audience also.

    What say Em Sound tempting? C'mon blow abit of the dust off the NN image... live a little..it will be fun.






  • Comment number 7.

    We need a Home Office study on -

    our politicians being on the top shelf and strict ingredients information printed all over their foreheads with the likely toxicity of lying plus the time limit on how long they can use their mouths before they go off - Zoo indeed but its not our need.

  • Comment number 8.

    I keep thinking about assisted suicide. It's one thing to talk about it in the media and on blogs. But quite another to carry it out. I don't think many people would have the stomach for it. I think Ray Gosling owned up because he felt so awful about doing it really. It's not nice killing another person, the same arguement goes for the death penalty, would YOU like to carry that or assisted suicide out? YOU'D be a brave person.

  • Comment number 9.

    8 - Crikey I'll be happy to help a few politicians and bankers on their way.

  • Comment number 10.

    2. Mistress76uk True. Then there's all that satellite Babestation etc stuff. That really is vile. I used to quite like women!

  • Comment number 11.

    Found this the other day...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/2432632/UK-General-Election-2010-political-map.html

    I thought it might come in handy running up to the election, so I've got it in my favourites.

    In passing I notice Mr Woolas has a comfortable majority of over 4,000, hhhhmmm will the Lib Dems take it?!

  • Comment number 12.

    Attack Dog Prescott came to the bully boy rescue -

    'He repaid the amount, (council tax) which came to £3,830.52 over nearly nine years.'

    John Prescott doesn't he contravene the dangerous dogs act ? or at least some verbal pollution act - there must be some law against what comes out of his mouth. Eating disorder ? more obsessive compulsive verbal vomit disorder of the monumental of all time kind.


    'He gained a reputation in the British press for confused speech, mangled syntax and poor grammar.'

    Ruff ruff ruff

    'There have been additional controversies over sexual infidelities and harassment allegations.'

    Well I guess doggies just cant help themselves.

    oh dear

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Prescott

  • Comment number 13.

    Some of the comments/reviews here might ignite a few cerebral sparks? I get the impression most of us who care have no place to go?

  • Comment number 14.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/michaelcrick/2010/02/the_paradox_of_alistair_darlin.html

    'seems Newsnight is keeping its powder dry on the massive scandal that goes to the core of real issues affecting the public - such as health and elder care'

    Or.... let's go to town on the really BIG issues:

    a Home Office study says lads' magazines such as Zoo and Nuts should be made top shelf and have age restrictions on sale - we will be debating the issue.

    Moving on...

  • Comment number 15.

    #6

    Jericoa

    From the way you address Emily at #6 one could assume that it is her, or indeed the other presenters, who decide about Newsnight's content whenever they're on while I thought it was the wannabies that Barriesingleton so aptly described yesterday /?/

    mim

  • Comment number 16.

    #6

    Jericoa /I've almost mispelled your name by typing Hericoa/

    There are some good points that feminists raise, or at least some of them. What I don't like is sweeping statements regarding all males.

    There are some very fine men around but unfortunately there also quite a few that are abominable the way they treat women and talk about them.

    mim

  • Comment number 17.

    Ecolizzy, see Sir Herbert Nield and the problem of aliens, nearly 100 years ago. Consider our high profile media which foments 'grief and glamour' just to make money. It's getting more and more like the Wiemar Republic, and I reckon, via the usual culprits.

  • Comment number 18.

    I FIND THE FUNERAL OF AN OLD PERSON MORE AGREEABLE THAN A YOUNG WEDDING. (#8)

    Hi Lizzy. It has all been said before, but I'm going to say it again. Why do we show more human compassion (aka empathy) with a cat, dog or horse, than with another human? It stands to my reason that, in the latter case WE ARE SUPPRESSING OUR HUMANITY. i.e. it is cultural.

    If we could treat our loved-one like a dog (irony?) the problem would be solved. When we HONESTLY (without adjustment) identify with the person who has either asked to die, or is clearly 'out of life', we can do it.

    And what of the start of life? Why no hand-wringing over the person 'condemned to a life' - a life they DID NOT ASK FOR? Again, where dogs are concerned, we apply a lot of strategy regarding conception.

    Human? It's a dog's life - you wouldn't do it to a dog.

  • Comment number 19.

    UNCLE SAM'S RECORD IN THE BIT DOWN THERE. (#3)

    Perhaps the CIA are partial to Latin women, and got their missions mixed up? After all, they have form galore in fixing South America.

    Anyway: the Yanks were a bit half hearted last time weren't they? Something to do with A-Waks (or was that Star Wars.)

    And finally WE were not committed either. Didn't we resume normal banking with Argentina about 2 wks after? I never understood why we didn't declare war on Argentina and why we didn't threaten to bomb Buenos Aires. Almost makes you think that the entire charade was to create heroes (either sort) and restore Maggie's standing.
    (Is that the right country?)

  • Comment number 20.

    ANYONE HERE IN THE WOOLAS CONSTITUENCY - OR KNOW OF SOMEONE? (#11)

    It only takes one of his constituents to ask him if he is in favour of an ABSTENTION box on the voting slip. (It is the nearest thing to 'have you stopped beating your wife'.) He will say 'no' and can then be pilloried for not backing full dmocratic rights for punters.

    How's the No 10 petition(s) for none of the above doing? I try to find out - bit of a maze.

  • Comment number 21.

    Jericoa

    It looks like ecolizzy has found herself a 'fine' partner in statist, don't you think?

    mim

    P.S. It looks like she jumps around. If it's not

  • Comment number 22.

    #21 update

    Sorry, my laptop is very sensitive and the post went out prematurely

    The last sentence she go as follows:

    If ir'a nor jj then it' jaunty and statist. Spoilt for choice she is!

    mim

  • Comment number 23.

    #22

    It's also good to know that ecolizzy is making sure she is secure financially. What an inventive way of making money. Bravo to the lovey[dovey pair.

  • Comment number 24.

    19. barriesingleton - The harsh truth is, if you want organized chaos, put women in charge. This has been deployed as a liberal-democratic (anarchistic) political strategy for some time. To see where it is not done, see China, Iran etc which actually try to make government work.

    If this assertion is not true, someone, anyone, please explain the statistics.

    There are, I suggest, masses of data behind my assertion, and there are precious little to refute it.

    It is time we faced reality. Sadly, it may already be too late.

  • Comment number 25.

    The people who got us into the mess we are in, financially - MEN, the people who fought wars and still fight - MEN.

    Women are just as intelligent as men however they were repressed for god knows how many centuries in science and art. Imagine where we would be if their intelligence had been utilised as is happening now ?

    Here is just one example in art - Artemisia Gentileschi - an early baroque artist who was raped by her teacher Agostino Tassi. Artemisia suffered torture during the trial of Tassi.

    'During the trial, Artemisia was given a gynecological examination and was tortured using a device made of thongs wrapped around the fingers and tightened by degrees. Both procedures were used to corroborate the truth of her allegation, the torture device used due to the belief that if a person can tell the same story under torture as without it, the story must be true. At the end of the trial Tassi was imprisoned for one year.'

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_Gentileschi

    Some of the great women of science :

    http://www.newscientist.com/special/women-in-science-2009-intro

  • Comment number 26.

    #4 Exactly jaunty, to missquote JFK-

    It shall be the policy of this Nation to regard any attack launched from Argentina against the Falklands or any British interests as an attack by the United States of America on the United Kingdom of Great Britain, requiring a full retaliatory response upon the United States.


    Of course NN is missing more huge economic news, this time RBS, while BBC main news is concentrating on the losses and bonus payouts the fact that the blog Zerohedge is beating RBS to a pulp with the truth seems to have escaped any comment-

    Some Afternoon Amusement Courtesy Of RBS: There Is No Spoon - Or Bank Run

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/some-afternoon-amusement-courtesy-rbs

    The only question is how big the smoking hole in the RBS balance sheet will be from Greece, which is still in its slo-mo crash.

    Greece needs €4.8BN more in cuts

    http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/3896348

    If Greeces rating is cut then Greek banks will not be able to use Greek government bonds as collateral for loans

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-25/moody-s-warns-of-greece-cut-if-fiscal-plan-missed-update1-.html

    EU Statistics Agency:Greek Debt To Rise Due To '01 Swap

    http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100224-713546.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLEHeadlinesEurope

    Greek protest ends in street battle

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jKbyilhOSRQsT4C9aWvxlIf4S_aA


    If Vulture funds are banned then any GreeK bonds that do go into default will not be able to be sold to a Vulture fund making any losses by UK banks even larger.

    In other news, Iceland walks out of Icesave talks with the UK and Netherands-

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-25/iceland-walks-out-of-icesave-talks-with-u-k-dutch-update1-.html


    So things continue to collapse in on themselves, but it's okay, because if it isn't on TV it can't hurt us, right?


  • Comment number 27.

    25. flicks 'The people who got us into the mess we are in, financially - MEN, the people who fought wars and still fight - MEN.

    Gwaaaaaaaan - You're 'avin a larf.... They've got feminized brains over in NYC. It's all been explained by someone here in the past.

    'Women are just as intelligent as men however they were repressed for god knows how many centuries in science and art. Imagine where we would be if their intelligence had been utilised as is happening now ?'

    Look, you'll get banned if you keep that sort of dark irony up. People will get 'offended' too. You should tell the truth - it's good for the soul.

    Men actually get upset by irrationality you know! Women get upet by rationality!

  • Comment number 28.

    25. flicks 'Imagine where we would be if their intelligence had been utilised as is happening now ?'

    Are you a masochist? Isn't it bad enough already?

  • Comment number 29.

    And a Home Office study says lads' magazines such as Zoo and Nuts should be made top shelf and have age restrictions on sale - we will be debating the issue.

    It will never catch on - some Ambulance Chaser will sue the Home Office for breach of the Human Rights/Equality Act - e.g. sexual discrimination against dwarfs or other short males. Pandora's Box is well and truly open. and nothing less than an 'Enabling Act' will halt this anarchistic born slurry of 'filth and depravity'.

  • Comment number 30.

    I'm really confused about the 'Lads Mags' issue. Most towns or cities have regular Ladies Nights with male strippers and guys in thongs waitering with the women all over them. Far, far more then female strip shows and gents nights and from all accounts the women act far worse at these shows than men do. In fact it has become far more popular for women only nights than it is male only nights. If you look in most towns you will find a ladies night with sexual activities like strippers and waiters in thongs at least once per year but not gents nights. There are lots and lots of sexual related parties with imitations of male genitals and images of naked men in books and magazines (Ann Summers parties) in every town every year and all year long. If men held such parties every week we would be going mad saying it was sex starved and filthy men. Sex shops in towns have to have covers on the front and men are looked down upon if they go in them. Yet Ann Summers shops for women are open with large windows and I've even seen groups of school girls go in them for a giggle. Surely, if we have one rule for men then we should have the same rule for women? If men look at porn its wrong if women look at it its ok.. why is this?

  • Comment number 31.

    I did'nt know about this until I watched Questiontime just know.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTItXW26zyU

    I wish we had politicians like Farage in Westminster, he says it as it is. I do hope he pushes Bercow of his chair at the next election.

  • Comment number 32.

    30 Steve 'Surely, if we have one rule for men then we should have the same rule for women? If men look at porn its wrong if women look at it its ok.. why is this?'

    This is what men deserve for 'god knows how many centuries' of female oppression which made them shorter, less muscular and their brains smaller/less interested in maths, logic, science, engineering and stuff.

    They also have better orgasms! How fair/equal is that?

  • Comment number 33.

    31. kevseywevsey 'I did'nt know about this until I watched Questiontime just know.'

    You diappoint me. What else have you been missing? ;-)

  • Comment number 34.

    I personally think focusing on lads mags is a waste of time... WOMEN DON'T READ LADS MAGS.

    Lads mags cater to the immature and adolescent male, and even if they didn't exist and no form of porn was available, it would not stop the male population fantasizing about women, and when men get together on there own, they will probably still discuss which women they find attractive and imagine situations where they may have a sexual encounters with said women.

    My understanding is that the main concern is that younger and younger girls are becoming more aware of their sexuality without actually understanding it, and feel that to accepted in today's society, they need to be thin and have big boobs and cater to what they perceive men want.

    The ironic thing is that it is other women that are telling the young girls of today what men want and what they have to do to be attractive to these men.

    Open any woman's magazine and there will be hundreds of articles on how to look more attractive or how to better oneself, imparting on their young minds that they to begin with are not good enough and need improving.

    Yes, I would agree that as a generalization, men can be very superficial but no more superficial than women.

    Men don't by teeny pop songs from the likes of Cheryl Cole. Her largest market are young teenage women and she is who they aspire to be. Does Cheryl Cole wear skimpy clothing for her male fans who probably only make up 10% of all her sales or does she do it for all the little girlies out there?

    Women are their own worst enemy because they would never do what a man would tell them to do! In fact, I believe they would do the opposite... Women look up to their role models just like men look up to theirs, and it just so happens that 99% of the time, women look up to other women.

    All of this must come down to the parents. Children are suggestible, it's in their nature... All you can do is try your hardest to be a good enough role model for them so they have no need to look elsewhere.

  • Comment number 35.

    Why are Emily Maitlis's Newsnights always so light-weight? I presume she can interject with her own ideas when the day's 'hot topics' are being lined up?

    A few thoughts prompted by tonight's tired 'lads mag' dispute:

    1. If 13- and 14-year-old boys look at hardcore porn, confront the parents. Maybe even prosecute one or two. It'll send a message, you know. Who do you think paid for the laptops and gave their children unrestricted access to the web?

    2. Girls who feel they don't 'measure up', are over-whelmed with low self-esteem, a product of a poor education and poor upbringing. Tackle these problems and leave adults alone, except the failing 'parent' ones, of course.

    3. If you're a Leftie, why not look in a mirror, as it is there you will find the real cause of what you lay at the door of 'sexualisation'. Which point of view - 'left' or 'right' - is responsible for the near collapse of the education system; the diminution of parental responsibility; and the breakdown of society? Who has the 'education' system firmly within its iron-clad grip? Who has been given, within the school system, free reign to try out the latest 'education' gimmicks on our 'guinea pig' children, safe in the knowledge no harm will be done, having fostered the unchallenged view that an education is irrelevant; the advertising industry or television or magazines, you see, are the real problems? Who also blames the level of taxation on alcohol and the locations of 'lap-dancing' clubs and the sight of film stars smoking and the colour pink, etc.? Do you have your answer yet? Hasn't the other cherished stable of the Left, the broadcast media - the source of so much public discourse and the moulding of the country's dominant culture - spent 40 years promoting every institution for the raising of children, bar the 'two-parent, married' union, the one institution that common sense and a wealth of research indicates produces the most stable of human beings?

    I wonder if Natasha Walters feels she 'doesn't measure up'. Probably not. She's different, I guess. It's the other people we should be protecting.

    Incidentally, was tonight's debate a response to the slight critical mauling her book received on The Review Show? 'Us women must stick together' and all that?

  • Comment number 36.

    I wasn't surprised by the poll I found online:

    http://www.the-top-tens.com/lists/top-ten-dream-jobs.asp

    The top dream job was to be a porn star..... what happened to children wanting to be vets or astronauts? It's the constant dumbing down of society as a whole.

    So many girls want to grow up to be Jordan (aka Katie Price). Recently she even said she wanted her two year old daughter to have the same glamour modelling career she has.

    If you look at any quiz show on TV, you'll always notice that the dumber the questions, the bigger the prize. What does this tell you? Society prizes people who are stupid, so why try hard?

  • Comment number 37.

    ...and just for the record - Lady Gaga is an immensely talented singer/song writer and she looks amazing too :o)

  • Comment number 38.

    Oo, a new one. Guys earning the big bucks at the top saying 'no purpose would be served' by them stepping down when shown to be totally pants at their jobs.

    Interesting when a lot of folk seem to be ending up dead, unnecessarily, on their watches.

  • Comment number 39.

    a few quotes on banking

    ..King spelled out to lawmakers on Nov. 24 why the global financial crisis is so significant for the U.K.

    “The only hope we have of retaining an international banking sector” is if taxpayers and global bond investors “stop worrying about the fact the U.K. government might have to stand behind a banking sector that’s five times GDP,” King said. By contrast, the size of the U.S. banking industry is less than one times GDP, he said.

    Allowing non-U.K. banks to dominate the City was termed “Wimbledonization” by former Bank of England Governor Eddie George. As with the tennis competition, Britain earned money from hosting the event even if it struggled to provide a winner.

    “It is the activity rather than the nationality of ownership which creates a competitive marketplace,” George said at a banking conference in Vienna in 2001.

    Brown embraced that in 10 years as chancellor of the exchequer. In a 2007 speech at Mansion House, the lord mayor’s residence, Brown celebrated that a third of the world’s currency trading took place in the City -- more than in New York and Tokyo combined, he said, as he pledged to “maintain a competitive tax regime.”

    “This is an era that history will record as the beginning of a new golden age for the City of London,” Brown said. “Britain needs more of the vigor, the ingenuity, the aspiration that you demonstrate daily and is the hallmark of your success.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=al4xP78iSZhM&pos=12

    the golden age has turned out to be a return to the stone age.

  • Comment number 40.

    There's only one fact that dominates, and that is sex sells, to everyone, including children.

    But don't expose your flesh in the "wrong way" or you get thrown off buses!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1253678/Young-mother-thrown-bus-accused-indecent-exposure-breastfeeding-baby.html

    It's ok to have nude pictures of women everywhere, but if someone is doing something natural all hell breaks lose.

    I recently watched a programme on Channel 4, with some young woman (can't remember her name) interviewing youngsters about their views on life and sex.

    The young boys all watched porn on their computers, and had no idea how a natural woman should look. They were astonished when shown nude woman of a natural shape. Yes a lightweight prog. but I think that part was fairly genuine. They didn't realise that small thin women had tiny boobs, they almost didn't believe what they saw, naturalness has been extinguished in the media entirely.

    Having a daughter who is now a teacher in a girls school, I realise and so does she, the sheer peer pressure girls put on each other is incredible. Tim at #34 is correct, it's women putting enormous pressure on themselves. Lads mags don't really come into it, try looking at Cosmo, very explicit and just as bad, if not worse than Zoo or Nuts. It gives instructions on how to achieve..........whatever. They all want the good looking boy in class or on the bus etc. So they are prepared to do anything to get them. They have no idea of bounderies or standards, because everywhere in the media nakedness and sex are everywhere. They are also extremely nasty to any girl who doesn't conform to their ideas of beauty and behaviour, bullying is very rife in this country.

    I look at the Mail online, I find it incredible the junk and nudity amongst the celebrities down the side of the article I might be reading. This must have a profound affect on kids, who think it's all perfectly normal, and what one should aim for.

    People think once a child gets to 10 or 11 they are grown up, because it's convenient for the parent to think that. No child should be left on their own in their home until they are 14, but I expect many thousands are. The good old adage from the Labour government, all women must work, when instead they really ought to be at home supervising their obnoxious (in the early teens, Kevin types!) children. How can any parent know what their kids are doing, if they are away at work until 6.30 - 7pm, and little johnny gets in at 4pm.

    Yes all very anti womens lib, but I'm one of the idiots that espoused it! Even Germaine has gone back on a lot of her earlier views, I've heard her say women should still act like women, not ape men, but unfortunately women don't seem to understand that. Women may primp and preen and look emaculate, with all the right attributes, but somehow they are far less feminine, but they don't understand that.

  • Comment number 41.

    #39 I know I don't often comment, but thanks JC for all your informative and interesting posts, I always read them for the realistic view they offer.

  • Comment number 42.

    Ah looks like I'm a professor! ; ) But isn't it all just natural common sense?

    Frank Furedi, professor of sociology at Kent University, said society as a whole and adults were to blame.

    He said: "The whole of society is hypersexualised - sex becomes the common currency through which adults make their way in the world and continually send a signal to children that sex is all that matters.

    "One of the big problems that we are faced with is that increasingly adults have lost the capacity to draw a line between their own attitudes and those of children and increasingly we're recycling adult attitudes about sex through the prism of children."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8537734.stm

    And having had a government that has abdicated responsibility for British society for the last 13 years it's not surprising our standards are collapsing, when money is king. When we have such extreme views expressed in GB, from a muslim woman covered from head to toe, and naked women in a lot newspapers, what are kids meant to think?

  • Comment number 43.

    35. Strugglingtostaycalm '2. Girls who feel they don't 'measure up', are over-whelmed with low self-esteem, a product of a poor education and poor upbringing. Tackle these problems and leave adults alone, except the failing 'parent' ones, of course.'

    Your descriptins are find, but your analysis and causal attribution is wrong.

    Low self-esteeem (narcissism) is reinforced to sell merchandise. It's an essential feature of the free-world.

    '3. If you're a Leftie, why not look in a mirror, as it is there you will find the real cause of what you lay at the door of 'sexualisation'. Which point of view - 'left' or 'right' - is responsible for the near collapse of the education system; the diminution of parental responsibility; and the breakdown of society? Who has the 'education' system firmly within its iron-clad grip?'

    Sigh....anarchists, i.e. the free-marketeers. This is the right. In fact, 'lefties' have not been allowed in the UK for decades. See earlier link(s) to Ramsay's publication, a potted history of why New Labour is not Labour (leftie). Lefties are statists - they don't sell it off. The USA has been encouraging social-democacy throughout Europe for decades, and social-democracy is libertarianism, i.e anarchism. If you wnat to blame chaois in our schools etc, blame new Labour and The Conservatives.

    You, like millions of others have been cleverlyconned. The promotion of narcissism is an essential part of this. One of the consequences of low self-esteem is in fact haughty arrogance. An inability to really question, back-white thinking. Some are shy etc, but that is because they are self-obsessed, get it?

    Think about it: There was a Cold War against 'lefties' - misslies and all. Please wake up to this:- Lefties are not allowed. Only Trots are allowed. Trots (Neocons) = freemarketeers. This is freedom to the gras-roots. This is promotion of individualism, 'choice', aka consumerism - the very opposite of leftyism.

    They have you tacitly supporting anarchism (deregulation) and hence the free-market. They have you keeping leftyism at bay! See The Road To Serfdom.

  • Comment number 44.

    Thanks Lizzy (#40).

    I think we should be really focusing on adult's views and opinions on sexuallity rather than trying to control what children think.

    Children learn from their elders, that's the way life is. If daddy disrespects mummy all the time, what kind of impression is that gonna leave on young males? And if mummy is always focussing on her figure and her looks, how's that gonna affect young women.

    We need to prioritise our values and lead by example, and stop blaming the government or magazines or anything else external from the family.

    There will always be men who are willing to pay to see women naked and exploit them. There are women who have no other choice of making a living and so see themselves being exploited as the only way of providing for themselves.

    Education is the key as women are just as capable of doing anything a man can do, and once we're all on the same playing field, who's to say women will want to be part of this sexually exploitive world, maybe they would prefer to work in what is up until now a male dominated environment, like the stock exchange, and then it would be just men we have to blame for all this chaos?

  • Comment number 45.

    Bravo EcoLizzy #40

    Real life has interrupted posting but was composing similar as your post appeared.

    One of the saddest indictment of the damage done by the rampant feminists of the past 100 years is borne out by the frequent trucking out of the adage that women are finally ‘getting their own back’ after hundreds of years of being downtrodden and undervalued.

    Oh aren’t we just............ and then some. In rising (almost matching that of our male counterparts) of STD’s, alcohol related problems, delayed and damaged fertility, driver fatalities and more. Well done US! Needed a first class honours degree for that result did we?

    And then a few years later we visit the same woes (dressed as freedom and progress along with the push up bra’s and dubious sloganed t shirts) on our daughters, and applaud ourselves.

    I cringe and feel ashamed of my sex, my ‘Sisterhood’. Why oh why don’t we see that we were sold a lie, and just ‘Get Over it’ and get on with being decent, honest, valued women – friends, wives and mothers. There is POWER in doing that well – or at least best one can.

    If only women could learn that being good at being a woman IS more than good enough – and the ones who do the worst damage to the esteem and value system of women, are other women – usually those who inside are deeply uncomfortable at what they have become but are too weak to admit it. Or too comfortable with the frippery it affords them.

    Forget feminism, embrace femininity. Forget equality - it does not and should not exist in the way you have been sold for the past 100 years. Be you. Support each other WHERE you are, NOT where you think you should be clawing yourself, leaving flesh under the finger nails the whole way.

    And keep the underwear for behind closed doors, NOT the office. Most men, in the long term prefer modest subtle femininity and anticipation in public. Keep the underwear for behind closed doors. Is this NOT borne out by the divorce rate among the rich and famous and underdressed in public WAGS and wannabees?


  • Comment number 46.

    ......and now the BBC is axing some of its TV,radio and half of its internet site, as well as cutting down on US imports....

    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article7041944.ece

    :o(

  • Comment number 47.

    42. ecolizzy 'Ah looks like I'm a professor! ; ) But isn't it all just natural common sense?

    Frank Furedi, professor of sociology at Kent University, said society as a whole and adults were to blame.'

    Ecolizzy - beware. Frank is a Trotskyite. Look up Living Marxism and it's history. Look up 'Spiked'. Look up what Spiked mission statement is at their site. Most of all, look into Living Marxism and how it has morphed. Google Frank Furedi and Living Marxism. George Monbiot has written extensively about this.

    Let this be a salutary lesson on how these anarchists operate.

    Statists despise Trotskyites and Western 'Marxists' in general, because they are anarchists, just like the ones originally sent into Russia in 1917 to get them out of the war. They count on most naive Westerners not seeing the differnece. That's known as 'entryism'.

  • Comment number 48.

    Just as people with Diabetes have to test their blood every day a number of times I think it may well benefit those with chronic migraine to be able to test the level of Magnesium and B Vitamins in their body regularly and importantly themselves at home. We taken up minerals and flush them out of our bodies at different rates, so even if your taking mineral supplements and eating what might be termed 'correctly' you may still be deficient or over dose at some times. This relates to NHS costs care of the elderly and the cost loss from work. So come on those nice government people and researchers who read this make sure the right people get it and make it happen.

    The more self diagnostics and use of email to doctors of results (not spin doctors or quacks ) the better.

  • Comment number 49.

    Statist (jaded_jean) as per usual I get a decent laugh from reading your insanity break free on these pages - just hope you dont go a bit toooo insane again.

  • Comment number 50.

    36. Mistress76uk 'The top dream job was to be a porn star..... what happened to children wanting to be vets or astronauts? It's the constant dumbing down of society as a whole.'

    That's freedom. That's individualism. That's anarchism. Vets like doctors etc care. That's statist. That's not fashionable. Only narcissism is fashionable. Only narcissism sells.

    'So many girls want to grow up to be Jordan (aka Katie Price). Recently she even said she wanted her two year old daughter to have the same glamour modelling career she has.'

    Jordan is Jewish. The glamour/image/fashion entertainment/publishing buisness is largely Jewish. Think retailing and tailoring. It's predatory on consumers and their doubts/needs. They are very good at this business. In the USSR it was a croime against the people. hat is why many Jewish people are anti-statist. See wars on terror. They are however, very good for the liberal-democracies' economies - see Goldman Sachs. Upset them and the investment banks and there will be trouble (see Greece, see the Axis of Weasels).

    I generalise of course.

    'If you look at any quiz show on TV, you'll always notice that the dumber the questions, the bigger the prize. What does this tell you? Society prizes people who are stupid, so why try hard?'

    Ah.....are you waking up? Still, do you want to wake up? It's actually very ugly what's been going on. Pointing it out can get one into trouble with those who make a good living out of this nightmare. Do you beleive any of the Jordan or now Cole PR stuff?

    Sadly, what I am saying is true. Not that it matters I guess, there's no money in it.

  • Comment number 51.

    Does anyone else find Emily's 'concerned' expressions at the end of her pieces, a litttle too disingenuous?

    Cut out the false emotion Emily, you know it makes sense.

    There is too much attention being paid to 'bad' social services. Privatise the lot and I bet the problems/inefficiencies will all go away....

  • Comment number 52.

    Know who this is Statist ? apart from being a WOMEN that is. Which may well be difficult for YOU to comprehend given her achievement :

    http://www.yrtk.org/wp-content/publicity/hbpub1.jpg

  • Comment number 53.

    Oh no Tim, #44

    please not that old chestnut.

    “....Education is the key as women are just as capable of doing anything a man can do, and once we're all on the same playing field,”

    Learning and growing is the key. Learning and growing is NOT provided by modern day education. Learning and growing is best provided in the home/community environment.

    Men and women are MADE differently. They should be in a different field 23 hours out of every 24.

  • Comment number 54.

    Ecolizzy - 'Furedi served as the co-founder and chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP). The RCP was distinguished by its commitment to theoretical elaboration and hostility to state intervention in social life.

    This is classic Trotkyism, aka anarchism. Not a builder. Stuff that appeals to self-obsessed bolshy adolescents - the sort of people one finds in schools and shops!

  • Comment number 55.

    49. flicks 'just hope you dont go a bit toooo insane again.'

    It's infectious you know...

    Maybe you've been oppressed?

  • Comment number 56.

    45. brightyangthing 'And then a few years later we visit the same woes (dressed as freedom and progress along with the push up bra’s and dubious sloganed t shirts) on our daughters, and applaud ourselves.'

    A good post, but.... a serious challenge:- how does one cope with female vanity/narcissism?

    This is what's preyed upon and which is so self (and societally) destructive. Yet it's a universal. Nation states which try to curb this narcissism are designated 'oppressive'. We have had them designated 'The Axis of Evil'. We see NGOs relentlessly camapiagning against them for alleged violations of Human Rights - the focus usually being women!

    I suggest this is a much bigger problem than you may appreciate. It gets to the heart of what I am posting in this blog. The cost is our birth rate and ultimately... our social infrastructure/integrity. People don't see it because our demise is occuring at a glacial rate. I see it in reactions to what I post. Do you?

  • Comment number 57.

    52. flicks - attractive - but you really must read what I post statistically. It isn't personal.

  • Comment number 58.

    debt vultures

    isn't that the 'vigor, the ingenuity, the aspiration that you demonstrate daily and is the hallmark of your success' of financial services that Gordon was praising only 2 years ago?

    while its easy to foam about about 'poor countries' let us ask why they borrowed so much and what it was spent on? Was that 'debt' spent on the people of those poor countries or on weapons and accounts in London Exclusive shops?

    where is the moral hazard that everyone else has to live by?

    what about the debt vultures here in the uk making a killing our of PFI? Or even the 1000% money lenders working on the police no go zone estates?

  • Comment number 59.

    WHAT NATURE WOULD (HAVE ANIMALS LIKE US) DO

    Nature is crazy about sex, to ensure continuation. However, most animals have a 'season' and then go back to pottering about. Even those animals that are 'at it' like whatever, do NOT live in a hyper-clever, language-based, technological society, like us. We are unique - as is our problem.

    The British Ape Confused by Language, has moved away from physical and pheromonal signals, to - well - alcohol, as a primary 'releaser' of sexual coupling (plus a load of other 'clever' unnatural stimuli).

    To my way of thinking, having given up on wisdom (once manifest in taboos) we were BOUND to end up here. Fundamentally IT IS WHAT NATURE WANTS - but we have clevered ourselves into a travesty of the underlying imperative.

    It is ironic that our 'leaders' show, daily, animal behaviour (albeit juvenile) but that they neither take account of, nor seek to ameliorate, the destructive mix of animal and cerebral/clever, that we now sink under, as a nation. I'd say that's a pretty good recipe for doom.

    If there is still time - WISE UP THE YOUNG.

    PS - while it is still a hot topic: Nature has no problem with bullying.
    But, by the same token as the above, we culturally DENY bullying's place in life, while perversely devising and inventing, circumstance and devices, to facilitate its flowering among the young.

  • Comment number 60.

    flicks - The ACA expenses issue was/is a sideshow, i.e. a distraction from what MPs can not control in the Financial Service sector because we live in a libertarian system where their job is not to control/regulate. By drawing attention to these petty cash issues in Parliament, the naive public was drawn away from what really matters, namely the extent to which the public is effectively funding more speculation and bonuses for the few at their long term expense both in terms of taxation and cuts to public services (the state).

    Take that on board. This women highlighted nothing interesting. Nice picture though, but she's a hack.

    Are you very young of sumfink?

  • Comment number 61.

    BBC

    Weak Governance and poor planning? Sounds like the BBC is a microcosm of the UK?

    why is the bbc wasting money on building when there are plenty of empty properties for sale at bargain prices? Isn't the licence fee for programmes. Not executive ego trips? What public service is being served when the BBC ignore media and embark on projects they have no talent for?

  • Comment number 62.

    44. 'I think we should be really focusing on adult's views and opinions on sexuallity rather than trying to control what children think.'

    Are you an anarchist or sumfink?

    What do you think adults roles are if not to control what children think?

    See teachers - see parents.... on the other hand.....

    Anarchism: it works because people don't see what's going on - too many people now think they are educated. They 'argue' like kids. They don't know what an argument is!

  • Comment number 63.

    #52. At 10:34am on 26 Feb 2010, flicks wrote:

    Know who this is Statist ? apart from being a WOMEN that is. Which may well be difficult for YOU to comprehend given her achievement :

    ------------------------------

    Heather Brooke the porn star?

  • Comment number 64.

    Brightyangthing #53,

    Maybe I used the wrong choice of words, but waht i wrote should be taken in context with the rest of my comment.

    If you read all of the comment you will see that I had actually the same conclusion as you.

    Education starts at home... Education in life and values.

    I was not refering to the education system provided by the government.

    No one other than parents are responsible for a childs learning and education.

    It is the governments place to provide a system where children can be educated, however it is in the home where it is the parents responsibility to enstill the belief of bettering oneself through learning and education.

    Children do not value and appreciate their time in school because parents don't begin a childs eduation with placing value on bettering oneself.

    Young women that I meet today have no belief in themselves and are more concerned with the way they look than what they can achieve if they apply their intellect.

    Yes, men and women are different, physically that is and so in some respects, not equal, however the world is changing and it is no longer a placee where the strongest and fittest survive, it is a world where eventually we will have machines that carry out physical labour, so why should we be on an equal playing field when concerned with intellect? We are all capable of applying our brains to a given task aren't we?

    Children oare the future, bottom line, and anyone who would say that an eduation is not important obviously does not value their children or the future.

  • Comment number 65.

    justin has been watching extreme videos on the internet?

    the bbc participates in the sexualisation of the young. 1xtra has songs praising gang banging etc. Hardly a BBC drama goes by without the obligatory irrelvant sex scene or nudity.

    the sun has had page 3 for how many years? and that is a 'newspaper'

  • Comment number 66.

    STONE AGE LOGIC (#39)

    I saw Mandy - yet again - spouting the mantra that Brown had tried for ten years to get worldwide regulation, but the others wouldn't play.
    This implies Brown saw the need, so why did he not insulate us? Further, why did he cry: "It all came out of the blue, from America"?

  • Comment number 67.

    58. jauntycyclist 'while its easy to foam about about 'poor countries' let us ask why they borrowed so much and what it was spent on? Was that 'debt' spent on the people of those poor countries or on weapons and accounts in London Exclusive shops?'

    Rhetorical thought for the day grass-hopper: Should 'grown-up' people be telling 'young-people' what to do and think?

    This is, I suggest, a very subtle question about governance and freedom. Bear in mind the age/ability continuum, and that some people never grow up (but don't know it).

  • Comment number 68.

    ROBBED INNOCENCE AND SIMPLE COMMONSENCE

    I bathed my two boys, routinely, and when they had erections, I told them what it was for. It thus became 'a fact' that they grew up with - no embarrassing talks, AND NO LOST INNOCENCE.

    The talk I DID give them, later, was that CREATING life was a worse crime that taking one. And that a conception is not 'just for Christmas', creators have responsibilities.

    God knows how much damage I did!

  • Comment number 69.

    Has anyone else ever noticed that there are a plethora of 'social pieces' in the news items on Radio 4....and that they usually include AMERICAN WOMEN as the subject matter experts for comment/opinion?

    In almost every case it is American women...how spooky is that!

    Listen out for the them the next time you hear one of these pieces. They are on all the time.

    BTW....there are NEVER any pieces on engineering, manufacturing or industry in the UK.

  • Comment number 70.

    59. barriesingleton 'The British Ape Confused by Language, has moved away from physical and pheromonal signals, to - well - alcohol, as a primary 'releaser' of sexual coupling (plus a load of other 'clever' unnatural stimuli).

    To my way of thinking, having given up on wisdom (once manifest in taboos) we were BOUND to end up here.'

    But.... as I keep saying, one has to think staistically.

    A couple of genrrations ago, no more than 5-10% of the population ever went to university, and philosophy waa the subject which taught one how not to be confused by language. That left 90-95% of the free-world population easy to bewitch if the forces of hell (the free-market) were unleashed.

    When you talk of apes and wising up the young, please bear these figures in mind and how and why they come about, as well as the fact that we can't improve people's lot via magic beans of education, we can only select what's already there (at conception) and deploy the able to manage the rest in their own best interests.

    See caring, people orientared China. They allegedly produce more engineers alone than we produce graduates!

    Are their SEz's pragmatic labour camps?

    Just saying it as it is mate.....;-)

  • Comment number 71.

    #56 Statist


    “.....how does one cope with female vanity/narcissism?” Indeed an enormous challenge. It may surprise you but it is one I do not shy away from consideration of; which makes me very popular (NOT) amongst my more feminist/freedom and choice loving girl friends. I sometimes choose not to condemn their choices outright, but neither do I endorse or join in activities I see as feeding the ‘beast’.

    The answer? When I have it I will make it freely available believe me and shout it from every rooftop.

    But perhaps it must begin (the theory rather than the mechanism) by making more of positive role models who perhaps have at the very least taken a stance on the ‘right’ side of the fence. A half way house of contented parenthood, valued partnerships, gentle intelligence, acceptance of ‘place’ and the values (respect from wider society of ALL persuasions) borne therein coupled with positive care of self, family and then broader society in which they operate.

    Suggestions on a postcard please..............

    I would have to admit to succumbing to ‘some’ of the activities you malign whilst outright rejecting others. I admit to falling far from the pillar of perfection but have not ceased to strive. But then that in itself can become a stumbling block to same said perfection. Catch 22!

    “....I suggest this is a much bigger problem than you may appreciate.” Perhaps you would be surprised at the level of my perception.

    And yes, I do see it in reactions to your posts. I find your posts very thought provoking with much to concur. But I also find your method of delivery frequently offensive (by that I mean in general – I can choose not to TAKE offence be it personal or indirect) and counter productive. I haven’t entirely figured out what you are trying to achieve much as I admire the study that gives them credence and value.

  • Comment number 72.

    Statis #62

    An adults role is definitely NOT to control what children think.

    No one should control what anyone thinks. The only way to address the problem that would benefit everyone in the world is to address oneself.

    Lead by example.

    I suppose you would suggest we go around burning books and banning TV and the freedom of press?

    Society as a whole needs to stop concerning itself with how others should go about their lives and address how one goes about ones own life.

  • Comment number 73.

    #64 Tim

    “.... however the world is changing and it is no longer a placee where the strongest and fittest survive”

    Perhaps that why we are in the mess we are in. A distasteful concept to allow a return to nature taking care of herself but if the weak thrive, someone (and we are running out of strong – and wise – Apologies for nicking Mr Singletons favourite phrase but it fits) has to look after them – for an ever increasing number of years.

    “....We are all capable of applying our brains to a given task aren't we?”

    Yes. Provided we remember that our brains as well as our bodies were designed for different things.

    As for parents/home learning. I agree. Sadly, I don’t see the ‘right’ sort of parents in any great number setting the right examples any more. Even the parents put their own happiness, desires, choices above those of their children. I shall not even begin to list the misdemeanours perpetrated on the young by selfish over educated parents But we may all recall the disaster that happened to two doctors with their children on holiday in Portugal, whilst carrying out their ‘rights’ to have an adult life outside their longed for children.

    Undeserved outcome but not unexpected. If we fail to carry out parenting adequately, with all of the sacrifices that SHOULD entail, we will continue to have horrors visited upon us that we continue to claim are the bogey man’s fault.

  • Comment number 74.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 75.

    Tim # 64 - I'm loathe to get involoved in this debate but are you sure that the world is changing into a place where the strongest and fittest survive. It depends, I suppose, if you mean strongest and fittest in a purely physical sense. Even then, will we have machines to carry out labour? Machines need energy and there must be some doubt that we will continue to have energy available at sufficiently low prices to power the machines.

    Whether it is pressure to be "greener"/low carbon, peak oil, the change in demographics (an aging population), or a lack of wealth, our society will undergo largescale change over the next few decades. It will be interesting to see how this all impacts on gender equality. Look at the emerging economies where they can't afford social care - who looks after the elderly? Of course, the probelm we have is that we have built a "knowledge based" or "smart" economy which to a large extent excludes the uneducated (particularly males)from the workforce. When the state finally admits that it cannot afford to pay for/subsidise universal care for the elderly, will they continue to stay at home to look after granny while their wives aree out working at call centres?

  • Comment number 76.

    BYT

    puff!, and one morning I wake up as Shakespeare, a bit like ecolizzy come professor. In fact, I've noticed before she had 'professorial' tendencies. However, she's made some good points about feminism.

    Pants are pants and in daily use worn on the bottom though rather than on one's nose for all to see.

    mim

  • Comment number 77.

    flicks - Hre's a constructive exercise for you in Credit Assignment.

    When a movie is made, who gets most of the credit, the producer(s), the director, the actors? When Brown, Darling or Obama give speeches, who gets the credit, they or the people who write the speeches? When AVATAR does well, do people fawn over the CGI characters? Do they want to be like the CGI characters?

    Learn about narcissism, marketing and 'the credit assignment problem'.

    Humans = not very smart creatures on the whole... but very self-centred/vain - females even more than males.

  • Comment number 78.

    68. barriesingleton 'God knows how much damage I did!'

    Not a lot from what I have read, and that's perhaps all a good parent can ever do. It's also a good rule for effective governance/medicine.

  • Comment number 79.

    64. Tim 'No one other than parents are responsible for a childs learning and education.'

    Factual nonsense (think about children in care to start with).

    Stick around and try to learn from those who know better than you.

    PS. When you use 'the wrong words' it means you are wrong.

  • Comment number 80.

    BYT - I agree with all you say on the selfishness of many parents. Paerhaps with previous generations, most adults lacked the wealth and opportunity to be selfish or perhaps it was a cultural thing. Call me boring, but I don't go out with my wife for dinner, to bars etc; if we go out for dinner, it as a family with my three youngish children. It was the way I was brought up and the way I like it (and I think the way my wife likes it!). I'm not a fan of all this "me" time stuff. You know, "If I don't get lots of time to myself, I can't be a good parent". I don't buy it. I don't see having children as a sacrifice at all but a wonderful privilege.

  • Comment number 81.

    'Think Lib Dem, vote Labour - to beat the Tories' says Peter Hain in the Guardian.

    So they forget the reneging on PR and ignore the failures of Labour in power and vote Labour. The common ground between Labour and the Lib Dems became clear once it looked likely there could be a hung Parliament.

    I am not a Lib Dem member but I hope people ignore this reworking of the arrogant "splitting the anti-Tory" argument and vote tactically.

    Personally I always thought the sums did not add up for the Tories and if they could have swung the party behind it an electoral deal with the Tories in return for PR would have brought real PR - not the mirage of AV - and Labour would have been duly annihilated.

    If the election is not decisive and the incumbents can't manage much of a run then perhaps the Tories will reconsider if there is a second election in prospect.

    If the two party stranglehold on power goes then a lot of the corruption and arrogance and ignoring the aspirations of the people will go too.

  • Comment number 82.

    #70 statist

    "The British Ape Confused by Language" used to be a theme that Jaded_Jean used to bang on about with barriesingleton in the hope that a barrage of posts on the themes of National Socialism rejigged for the audience would ignite interest in the far right.

    Hence that poster used to whinge about the "de-Nazification of the UK since 1945" and made positive comments on Hitler and used to claim that the Holocaust was "made up to put people off statism". Naturally the description of those who did the making up was .... "statists".

    There are some very confused people in the world with no grasp of science that leads to their promotion of the concept of race "realism".

    Even the BNP did not take their own notions so seriously that they considered taking on the EHRC over their illegal membership policies.

    Nor is the defence in the Djemjanjuk trial going to show that there was no Holocaust.

    The far right cut and run back into the shadows once they have to talk facts.

  • Comment number 83.

    71. brightyangthing 'But I also find your method of delivery frequently offensive'

    One only learns when one's 'expectations' are violated.

    Eggs, omelettes..no pain, no gain etc.

    A lot needs changing and quickly, for the better.

  • Comment number 84.

    Brightyangthing #73 & nedafo #75

    Survival of the stongest and fittest no longer exists in the physical sense.

    Perhaps it's me using the wrong choise of words but I feel people here are being rather pedantic and missing the actual point.

    Women in this day and age, and in particular, this society, are fully capable of providing for themselves and their children and do not have to rely on men to provide for them.

    With regards to raising children, I believe it's both the mans and womans role to do so, with compromise between the two as it's a physical impossiblity for a pregnant woman to do all the things a non pregnant woman can do, so there has to be some give and take, but that's the point of finding the right partner who can support each other and support their children financially, but more importantly emotionally and intellectually.

    With regards to machines, I was just making the point that we are not as reliant on the physically strong anymore to the extent where we would place them with higher regard over anyone else.

    If we want to talk economics here, then the truth be told, we will always have these same problems for as long as we exist as we are all only human and so all suffer from the same faults: greed, lust, envy, wrath, sloth, pride and gluttony.

    There will always be someone who wants more than the other.

    Marxism, socialism, communism, capitalisim, whatever... they will all fail as they are all reliant on one thing, humankind.

    Forget about what others do, and how we can control society. Focus on the individual and how one can live withing a set of good moral values and let the rest fall in it's natural place. This needs to happen organically.

    No one here on this planet is smart or intelligent enough to know or understand how to make the world a better place. No one can forcast all of the problems that can occur from any giving way of living.

    What one can control is how one lives ones own life. We are all to quick to pass judgement on others yet all fall into the same traps.

  • Comment number 85.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 86.

    COME HERE, THERE’S MORE............
    #64 Tim.

    “......No one other than parents are responsible for a childs learning and education.”

    You say this, which I am about to debate (especially the use of the word ‘responsible – sadly all too often missing in the skill set of modern parents) then you do the job for me, with

    “.....Children do not value and appreciate their time in school because parents don't begin a childs eduation with placing value on bettering oneself.”

    Ie. Parents are NOT being responsible. They are NOT parenting. I concur that ‘learning and growing, in an ideal world SHOULD begin the home/family/local community, but oh what poor examples we are setting. Proper parenting, recognising (and I think I may be echoing Statist here) SHOULD be about the wise TELLING and more to the point SHOWING the vulnerable and unformed HOW to live and grow strong and wise. But we have lost the skill, the confidence, the desire to do so, assuming many of us even recognise the rights. I may even go so far as to suggest that good governance, if we could find that in any colour, SHOULD for its own good PREVENT it’s people from making wrong/bad decisions. One can debate what they might be, but I don’t think there is much room to assume that the individual knows best. They seldom do, or do not manifest it in action. It is NOTHING to do with equality.

  • Comment number 87.

    #54 statist

    "This is classic Trotkyism, aka anarchism. Not a builder. Stuff that appeals to self-obsessed bolshy adolescents - the sort of people one finds in schools and shops!"

    The kind of people that rant on about "statism" and obsess about "anarchists" - that would include about 98% of the country on current voting patterns in their world - tend to be the far right.

    They are not "bolshy" just psychologically maladjusted. Thats why so many of the recent malcontents who have been would be bombers - like Lewington recently - gravitate towards the emotional evil and intellectually barren Hitler.

    There used to be a poster called jaded_jean who used to rant on and on about the far right.

    I think once the "science" that that fanatic used to cite was exposed, unsurprisingly, to be fantasy and that programmes such as "The Incredible Human Journey" and Rageh Omahs "Race and Intelligence" contained the real science that poster vanished.

    I can't say that I miss the bizarre types who used to try and create the conditions whereby people would look at the BNP and think that they had a positive contribution to make.

    The worst of it is that they have to know that there is no genuine intellectual basis to their arguments - its just a cult mentality.

  • Comment number 88.

    Statis #79

    Again, you being rather pedantic, but surely a career does adopt the parental role in the relationship, do they not?

    And with regards to your comment #62 which I have to highlight again, you obviously haven't a clue where you stand in this debate and so what you have to say is rather worthless.

    You and others need to stop quoting one or two lines of other peoples comments as you lose context and so leave your arguement null and void

    PS when you use the wrong words, it means that you haven't articulate the point correctly, though should the receipient of such information have some form of intelligence behind them, they would be able to work out what the deliverer ment and to be able to put it in the correct context for themselves.

  • Comment number 89.

    69. freemarketanarchy 'BTW....there are NEVER any pieces on engineering, manufacturing or industry in the UK.'

    Another instantiation of the crass asymmetry which sails under the name of socially acceptable if not championed narcissism? Men's interests (just about everything which practically sustains civilization if you look into it) are either oppressive, autistic, dull or boring.

    The dire consequences are predictable and all about us.

    Isn't it sad that it's come to pass that one now risks censure just for trying to save people from themselves?

  • Comment number 90.

    ‘Slight slip for Speaker's mask of political neutrality’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/michaelcrick/2010/02/slight_slip_for_speakers_mask.html

    Mr Bercow was explaining to the student newspaper that his own political shift over the years (from right to centre left) had been "partly philosophical and partly pragmatic", and that such a shift was required for the Conservatives to "capture the centre ground".
    And Mr Bercow says he has always been committed to principles such as "free enterprise, individual liberty and the rule of law", and also "believed very strongly in social justice and an overwhelming need for equality before the law".

    ---------------------------

    Statist…

    These Israel loving trotskyite anarchists are very consistent indeed....and are anything but neutral!

  • Comment number 91.

    Nope not a women but sometimes a relative of mine who is a women does post on here.

    While the egos break loose on here

    more

    Interestingly the UK gold price is diverging from the gold US price.

  • Comment number 92.

    84. Tim 'No one here on this planet is smart or intelligent enough to know or understand how to make the world a better place. No one can forcast all of the problems that can occur from any giving way of living.'

    Errr.. I disagree!

    How do you know what you say is true?

    Are you from another planet or somefink?

  • Comment number 93.

    BROKEN SOCIETY REQUIRES NURSING BACK TO HEALTH, NOT BATTERING
    #83 Statist
    "....Eggs, omelettes..no pain, no gain etc.

    A lot needs changing and quickly, for the better."

    I concur with the need, the sentiment. But remain dubious of the methods. Perhaps you may consider that as one small lesson worth learning or accepting.

    As much as it pains me (I am impatient for change), and takes time we may think we do not have, putting peoples backs up by making direct, personal and antagonistic responses such as.....

    #79
    “....Stick around and try to learn from those who know better than you.

    PS. When you use 'the wrong words' it means you are wrong.”

    ...do not, in our current climate have the desired effect. The exact opposite in fact. They draw their knees up into foetal position and thrash around mewling and puking like a newborn deprived of the light. Wrong as that may be, harbingers of change would be wise to adapt delivery method of what will be rather nasty medicine to a sugary syrup more to the current taste of the patient. When recovery has begun and the patient stronger, the more bitter pill may be administered.
    Here sometimes the female mind and psyche, when working at its best and channelled to the right tasks can engage in a way that makes the student feel that THEY had the brilliant idea rather than that they are the guinea pig or prisoner. Sometimes the nature you so despise, can be used effectively.

  • Comment number 94.

    Brightyungthing #86

    You and statis are blinded by your so called education.

    You DON't tell people what to do, they have to come to the same conclusions as you by themselves... that is the only way that we as a society can learn and grow together.

    Having knowledge and wisdom are two seperate things. The ability to understand and apply knowledge is called wisdom and that is what is more important that just telling poeople what to do.

    They need to understand why that is important so that they will be able to pass on their knowledge and understand to the next generation and so forth.

  • Comment number 95.

    88. Tim 'Again, you being rather pedantic, but surely a career does adopt the parental role in the relationship, do they not?'

    I note that when you are corrected (i.e educated) you assert your educator is being 'pedantic' or use the subterfuge that you may have used the wrong words. This is prima facie evidence of poor learning.

    Teachers are 'in loco parentis'. They are employed/deployed to instruct and to protect. So are carers and other 'officers of the state'.

    Many parents are unfit to have and care for children. As you many have seen, there has been a lot of this in the news.

    You need to learn to listen to those who know better than you. You are currently prone to writing nonsense. Show us you can learn.

    Don't defiantly 'answer back' ;-)

  • Comment number 96.

    Statist #92

    I suppose you've met this person then that can fix the world, or perhaps it's you?

    Other than a supposed 'GOD', who would you say knows everything and can forecast everything?

    I know what I say is true because the world is in the state that it is and people like you on this blog are debating the same old subject matters but in the context of today's society.

    This is how I can say that no one has all the answers.

    You really are cluesless and are willing just to say the opposite of someone just to get a reaction... childish, but at least it stimulates the debate.

  • Comment number 97.

    The question is can the UK keep inflation under control ? 200 Billion QE = blow torch under the UK pound never mind the Foot Pump Ad Without the weight of interest rates how will it not go into outer space?

    How are we not heading for hyper inflation Paul ?

  • Comment number 98.

    ...Should 'grown-up' people be telling 'young-people' what to do and think? ...

    that is the authoritarian model. the rational model is to ask questions about what is good?

    we have a society that demands the authoritarian model. e.g that schools must inject 'education' as one injects a patient. Unless one has been injected then the state is at fault so the people are 'victims'. that way they can avoid the question of personal responsibility.

  • Comment number 99.

    MAN THE BARRICADES!

    #89; A STATISTical analysis of this particular post and the increasingly loopy tone of this poster's content announces to the blogosphere that the Genie is out of the bottle - AGAIN!

    Mods - the delete button!

  • Comment number 100.

    93. brightyangthing '...do not, in our current climate have the desired effect. The exact opposite in fact. They draw their knees up into foetal position and thrash around mewling and puking like a newborn deprived of the light. Wrong as that may be, harbingers of change would be wise to adapt delivery method of what will be rather nasty medicine to a sugary syrup more to the current taste of the patient. When recovery has begun and the patient stronger, the more bitter pill may be administered.'

    This is the classic reformist vs revolutionary dilemma. You can't get through to idiots that's all. There are always selfish psychopathic idiots. You have to ignore them or just lock them up. What you can't do is promote them or give them power. Your society may lack some glampour and charisma as a consequence, but it's a small price to pay.

    We have in fact had reformist (social-democratic i.e. anarchistic) change in the UK since at least 1979, and in my experience it's all been destructive of statism, and ha sbeen at the expense of the interests of the vast majority of the people of this county. Many were fool enough to buy shares in what they already owned, just like the poor Russians did in the 90s. People have been ripped off, especially those who laboured for the buiding of a state for their children, decades before, in the austere 50s and 60s.

    Why are you not angry when you see what's all about you? Diabolical lies and self-deception everywhere. The details and trends have been presented here and elsewhere over and over again, and yet what do we see? We see lots of blind people arguing becaue they don't like what they are told! Those who do see what's been going on don't argue, thye don't like it, but they face reality.

    You're getting there. Ecolizzy sees it. So does barriesingleton and jauntycyclist (I hope), to name but a few. The bottom line is that we were sold a big lie that caring about each other was a bad thing, and that selfish self-intertst was good!

    How 'Satanic' was that?

 

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