Friday 23 October 2009
"Buddy can you spare a dime", "Dancing in the dark", "Life is just a bowl of cherries", all phrases that were coined during the Great Depression and have remained in the American lexicon.
As fixed as the haunting images of migrant families captured by Dorothea Lange's unparalleled photographs.
The Great Depression shaped modern America, literally in the great skyscrapers, and metaphorically as the Depression gave way to World War II, the Cold War, and ultimately the greed of the Gordon Gecko years.
But has it taken this new crash to bring America to its senses?
In a special edition of Newsnight and Newsnight Review tonight live from New York, we explore the economic and cultural landscape that was created out of the Wall Street crash 80 years ago tomorrow, and ask if our present travails are anything approaching the same scale.
We have a stellar guest list. In the studio historian Simon Schama, queen of the internet and Republican-turned-Democrat Arianna Huffington, banker Liaquat Ahamed (whose book Lords of Finance points to the actions of four bankers in the 20s as central to the crash), and the novelist Hari Kunzru.
Already in the can, Jay McInerney, who has some extraordinary observations of his own, which he is working into a new book. Get this - he says people on the Upper East Side are pretending to have lost money through the Madoff scandal.
Meanwhile, Philip Roth speaks of this as just another dark time in a series of dark times in America.
Paul Mason has made two archive-rich films to kick off discussions.
First, he asks if the 1929 crash taught Ben Bernanke and others a lesson that helped avoid a depression this time.
And second a film on the cultural response to 1929 - the literature of Steinbeck and Henry Roth, the "talkies" which portrayed the underbelly of American life, and the state-induced saccharine of screwball comedies like Bringing up Baby.
Then we'll look at the cultural response this time around.
TV sitcoms now focus on family life again. In Hank, Kelsey Grammer is an entrepreneur who loses his job and moves to small town America. In the explicit Hung a teacher who is struggling to make ends meet becomes a male prostitute. Oliver Stone (who only last year said he couldn?t imagine revisiting Wall Street) is currently making Wall Street II, with Michael Douglas reprising the role of Gordon Gecko.
And, of course, like Banquo's ghost, Michael Moore has turned up with his own trumpet blast at the bankers with Capitalism, A Love Story.
The sparks will fly, so do join us live from New York at 10.30pm on BBC Two.
Kirsty
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~58~RS~)
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after watching the non event on question time wherea befuddled Jack Straw was made to look stupid as the hate mongers vented their spleen on Griffin and as loathed as the man is he is the recepient of failed policies pursued by Straw and his ilk in that he has allowed inner city neglect, hopelessness and all the other failed policies of NuLabour. Only a truly socialist agenda will rescue Labour from the failure of these Thatcherite mavericks that have infiltrated this once proud party. Straw may have nine lives but every one of them has been a failure.
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Sounds like a fascinating take on a fascinating subject. Cultural and economic responses are intertwined in both time and consequence of each other.
This crisis will be different to the last for sure but humans are broadly the same so the same drivers to human responses will be there, just different outcomes and timescales more in tune with our times.
Sounds like a fascinating subject worthy of what I understand to be Newsnights place in the broascasting spectrum.
Please dont ruin it all though by asking any politicians or leveraged think tanks to contribute. I honestly dont know how you can sit at the same table as some of these people without slapping them!
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"Get this - he says people on the Upper East Side are pretending to have lost money through the Madoff scandal."
Some of us got that months ago ;-)
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'Dorothea Lange's unparalleled photographs'
Oh come on Kirsty try Walker Evans :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Allie_Mae_Burroughs_print.jpg
And you should look at why someone like Lewis Hine didn't get on with Roy Striker :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Hine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Stryker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_Security_Administration
'The main photography project during the New Deal Administration that has received so much popular attention is clearly Roy Stryker's collection. However, there was potential competition to Stryker's project from Lewis Hine. By the mid 1930s, Hine was seeking work and approached Stryker to join the FSA project but was rebuffed several times. One possible reason Stryker refused to hire Hine was the basic issue of control. Stryker had ongoing problems with his photographers who sought greater personal control over their work. After various struggles with Lange and Mary Wolcott Post, he turned to hiring young, inexperienced photographers who would closely follow his direction. Hine clearly did not fit these criteria -- in fact Lori Oden points out that he was not willing to relinquish rights to his negatives. Realizing that the FSA project was not possible, Hine sought another government job taking photographs and found a place within the WPA National Research Program.17
As part of this project, Hine documented a fleeting moment in the unemployed workers movement in Scott's Run, West Virginia. This view of the Workers Alliance that Hine captured in late 1936 is very different than the FSA photographs of the organization. He went far beyond a few photographs of the unemployed workers meeting to document conditions for the unemployed miners. His emotionally sensitivity towards his subjects is unsurpassed. One must question why Stryker was so critical and claimed that Hine was beyond his peak. One possible conclusion is that Stryker was concerned about Hine's reputation usurping the attention that the FSA photography project received. This is a speculative conclusion, since none of the historical information gives a clear answer as to why Stryker was dismissive of Hine's work.'
Ref : http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/gabriel160406.html
Could it be that Striker wanted to control the 'type' of images and used the fact that getting work as a photographer was tough, to leverage photographers into his vision? Just a thought.
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Griffin: "I am not a Nazi and never have been," he said, adding: "I am the most loathed man in Britain in the eyes of Britain's Nazis."
He thinks everybody else loves him!
More importantly does he actually reject the Jaded_Jean National Socialist tosh or is he being legalistic. "I am not a Nazi ... I am a National Socialist"?
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#3 jaded_Jean
"Some of us got that months ago"
Some got that there was a Holocaust at the Nuremburg trials - referred to in glowing terms by Griffin who is "not a Nazi".
But then you have claimed variously not to be a Nazi or the BNP - you are just a National Socialist who reveres Hitler and wants to see more BNP coverage. But the whining BNP now complain that sob, sob, sob they get too MUCH coverage.
I don't know you revere one of the most evil ideologies in history that left some seventy five million dead and people seem to be set against you.
Go figure huh!
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I assume that the programme tonight will nail the Labour spin of the current economic catastrophe as a "unique global event" hold sway.
It would be peachy too if you could get across how the Nazi SA murdered political opponents - who were often leftist "statists" - and that most Old Labour "statists" queued up to fight the Nazis in WWII and some in Spain.
But then I am being particular as there are some who are incapable of grasping simple historical facts and instead tend to "hysterical facts" like the BNP Barnbrook and his non-existent murders.
"The bells, the bells ...." and dyslexia made him do it.
I have known dyslexic people and they never had the same problem.
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Poor old Griffin - will his "Kristallnacht" experience push him into the hands of the Nazis and away from the democratic process?
Who cares as I don't think he will be doubling the BNP ratings and there will now be a much greater focus and cooperation between the parties to expose the lies of the BNP.
Cameron should maybe start thinking about a new tradition where we have a National Holiday to mark the first day of a general election and we celebrate democracy and those like the media, armed forces and the police that preserve it and reject those undemocratic forces that seek to replace it via lies and subterfuge.
Then of course we should get down to the full blooded political contest and scrutiny of policies and personalities.
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I would much like someone to explain why its necessary to break the link to Walker Evans photograph of Allie Mae Burroughs - its considered one of the most important photographic portraits ever made .
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streetphotobeing
The link hasn't been deliberately stopped. The coding for the blog comments just doesn't like the colon in the web address. It thinks the path stops at the colon.
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#9 Streetphotobeing
Don't think it is deliberate. More the way the code is split up esp with Wiki. Notice it broke at the :
In the past I've posted links from Wiki and they've done the same. JJ likes posting specific to an 'internal' Wiki and occasionally they break at a division.
If you copy and paste your link into the browser it does take you straight there.
Don't know the exact reason, but it's not just you when using these sorts of Wiki links.
Celtic Lion
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I don't have an opinion on the matter.
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Nos 11 and 12
Thanks for that, I see what you mean now.
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Nos 4
Having said that, for me Dorothea Lange was every bit equal to the best male photographers on the planet :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothea_Lange
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KCL (#12) Do you mean the one which induces us all to become anarchists in the interest of markets? My efforts at counter-conditioning will probably go over most folks' heads I suspect?
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THE CHURCH OF A AND D
We are still the animals we always were. Animals are programmed to eat and reach puberty - then to fight and reproduce. Does that resonate with you?
Once upright, mobile, continent and verbal (temporarily de-animalised) Humans do quite well in the 'higher brain' arena (subject to JJ's constraints). But puberty puts a massive spoke in the wheel - THE ANIMAL IS BACK, AND THIS TIME IT'S SERIOUS!. One way to handle this shambles it heavy taboos and penalties. Perversely, WE have made a 'Church' of aberration and deviance, it has massive attendance figures, yielding steady decline in overall human (humane)competence. Overpopulation, abuse of money, violence as entertainment, wars to solve problems, multifaceted coupling - the list is endless. We just can't hack it.
Anyone think Messiah Blair has the answer? Yet he is prancing the globe at our expense. Does that not confirm OUR ineptitude? Blair is the over-ornate, obscenely expensive, alcove-icon of the Church of A and D; the Church of OUR ABERRANCE AND DEVIANCE!
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Nos 16
'Don't flatter yourself'
Mim
Do hope your ok and not nodded off in some cinema
after all the Griffin excitement.
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iplayer still not showing thurs NN.
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streetphotobeing (#18) So you consider yourself counter-conditioned? We can look forward to some sensible, appropropiate, socially/politically astute, posts, in future then?
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why is thurs NN not available?
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last year british gas sent out a chart showing the july high spike in price and saying this was the reason the bills have to go up. Well gas came down to 7 years lows and we got a miserly and grudingly price reduction. This year british gas sent out data explaining the bill is only 60% related to the wholesale price and the rest is govt tax and stuff.
something about cake and eating it? Heads they win tails we lose?
the extortion played upon the british people by energy companies is legal. there is no regulator who can control prices.
the govt still believe in market fundamentalism as the best organiser of a nations resources [see adam smith]. why? where is the evidence for it? ALL the evidence is that it leads to extortion and bad practice and greed.
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A woman in the audience seethed because Mr Straw had been using the term Afro Caribeans, she wanted him to use the description African Caribean.
And that epitomises the problem .......
Whom runs the Agenda?
What is the Agenda?
And where is the Agenda going?
( Why did she not - should she have - ask to be described as British?)
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The most famous photo from Lange of Florence Owens Thompson :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lange-MigrantMother02.jpg
" Florence was quoted as saying "I wish she [Lange] hadn't taken my picture. I can't get a penny out of it. She didn't ask my name. She said she wouldn't sell the pictures. She said she'd send me a copy. She never did."
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Nos 24
"a print of the photograph with Lange's handwritten notes and signature sold in 1998 for $244,500 at Sotheby's New York."
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I'm trying very hard to stick with this interesting discussion about the crash, but just as a speaker is coming to the end of making their point, somebody buts in and ruins it......usually Kirsty. For heaven's sake STOP IT!
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Sounds like Kirsty hasn't been well and still isn't. Hope you get well soon.
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PERHAPS KIRSTY HAS A NASTY ATTACK OF CARBON FOOT (#30)
There is no escaping the truth of 'Cult of the Individual' in broadcasting, when we send 'the talent' across the world to do a job that many already there are informed in and skilled at. Still living within the lie.
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One of the best blogs on the BBC - with subsequent sensible varied discussion as posts - I have seen in a long time is that of Mark Easton’s today.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/10/do_you_speak_race.html#comments
It is now closed for further comment.
If it were possible to precis what the blog, and posts, were saying I would suggest .....
Let’s have a sensible discussion.
As said .....
It is now closed for further comment.
26. At 10:10pm on 23 Oct 2009, JadedJean wrote
Sadly JadedJean .......
Some people see no personal gain in getting the message!
How sad!
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Most excellent program for the anniversary of the Wall Street Crash. Bravo and thank you.
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#18 from mimpromptu
Oh, yes, I did, Streetphotobeing. I had a wonderful snooze to Tarantino's 'Inglorious Basterds'. On the way to one of the World Cinemas I stopped off in what I call a Blue Moon pub and had half a pint of bitter. It was quite crowded with no place on the terrace so I sat on the side and listened to Leonard Cohen's 'On that Day, The Day They Wounded New York' and again to his 'Villanelle For Our Time'. The two authors are just not in the same league with Tarantino going for flashy trashy show off of violence while Leonard for truthful humane questioning of man's cruelty, emotions and fragile faith and hope of mankind coming eventually to its senses . He just seems to hit it with me each time I listen to him and I repeat 'he is my kind of man'.
What happened on ice today I'll leave for tomorrow perhaps or maybe not, we'll see. One thing for sure, I went for it and hope it did look expressive and even perhaps exciting. Nobody said anything, I'm just going by how I felt.
Have a good night, Streetphotobeing.
mim
P.S. Do you know what Mr Singleton is on about when he talks about 'the animal'? Is it anything to do with Madam Mim? Why don't they have a bonk with some bitch then?
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from mimpromptu
From my own perspective, Streetphotobeing, I don't think things are moving fast enough. I hope it makes some sense to you.
mim
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from mimpromptu
Streetphotobeing re: jj
Have you heard of a hyena making desperate noises
Looking for an outlet to his animal foibles?
Why not find a nice bitch and have then a go
There are many around, it's not for him, this glow.
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from mimpromptu
Earlier today, as mentioned on the previous page, I sent Obama a message but it looks like he is just another political sell-out so sadly I'll have to ignore him from now. I do have much more important things to do rather than supporting ignorant politicians. Their problem, not mine.
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Enjoyed tonights special. Paul Mason looked like an Englisman in New York' Kirsty looked good under American studio lights and Schama, he who made History cool again, always gets my attention.
Anyhow, the alternative news and research media pumps out another documentary:
Alex Jones this week released 'Fall of the Republic'. Wall ST, Obama, world Goverment and all the bits in between ( my synops on account I ain't watched it..other than the first 10 mins but its already causing a storm) Its on You Tube and its in 14 parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDQ6nIsgKW0
Failing that, You can always watch BBCs newsround...and be spoon fed your news. 6pm and 9pm weekdays and 10pm weekends.
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Another world-beater of a BBC programme... and again- from over here in North America, and particularly from 'american-media-saturated British Columbia, Canada- some of the BBC's best programmes such as Newsnight are no longer available through the Internet... without going trough some legally dodgy strategies...
This, as the BBC iplayer is currently set up so that BBC video/TV offerings- such as Newsnight- are not playable outside of the UK....
Although a condensed 'summary of each week's best Newsnight programmes' is available each weekend to persons residing in North America- from their cable/Satellite TV service providers->> through the excellent "BBC World News" TV channel- most of the BBC's best programmes (and especially those that have constructive social/societal themes) such as: Newsnight, Panorama, Earth Report, HardTalk, FastTrack, Dateline London, World Debate, Click and many others) ARE NOT REVIEWED IN LOCAL HARD-COPY NEWSPAPERS, MAGAZINES & SIMILAR PUBLICATIONS PREVIOUS TO THE RESPECTIVE PROGRAMME'S BROADCAST...
Consequently, many potential viewers over here are not aware of these programmes being broadcast and end up with the usual crappy fare from 'entertainment without redeeming qualities' media networks for their 'TV fix'...
The BBC iPlayer ought to be re-programmed so that it works outside of the UK- but with SHORT, TASTEFUL advertisements played ONLY ONCE OR TWICE per hour of use to 'outside of the UK iplayer users...
The BBC's public-relations/international marketing dept ought to make an effort to get the BBC's world-beating TV/video AND radio/audio programmes reviewed in outside-of-the-UK hard-copy publications- in advance of broadcast- on at least a weekly basis, per market area....
Surely this would constructive for the country marketing itself- and its industries generally, and also would be a method of raising financial revenues for the BBC through to-be-expected increased numbers of people worldwide viewing/listening to BBC TV/video and Radio/audio programmes...
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada
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So are the BNP wrong to have a photo of Churchill on their home page?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/aug/05/race.past
And remember this is a guardian report, so must be true.
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From the Telegraph
In a vindication of the BBC’s stance, however, the poll showed that nearly three quarters of the public supported the decision to invite Mr Griffin to appear, compared with 63 per cent when the same question was asked last week.
"Labour encouraged mass immigration to help socially engineer a “multicultural” country and to try to “rub the Right’s nose in diversity”, according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair."
In my ignorance I've never heard of this man Neather before. Read this in the Telegraph, is this man right? Why have I never heard this quote before!
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It's a shame Mark's blog was closed. I think it must have been deemed 'too near-legislation'.
Language is important - language carries ideology, memes, and memes drive cultural evolution. So if we want a hand in our cultural evolution it would be worth sorting out a shared lexicon.
Despite Shakespeare's shrewd approach to romance, if we all called a rose something different, ultimately we would end up saying 'you know that flower with the well-prickly stems, great smell, and a large head of soft petals, that work remarkably well as a decoration when strewn on a white tableclothed table?'.
The story is not so much about 'race' as identity, which has a biological element that we call ethnicity, and a cultural component or belief system(s) stemming from terroir/nationality on the one hand and creeds/doctrines on the other.
English culture is demonstrably multi-racial because many immigrants integrated before multi-culturalism began in the 1980s. But for those who still bemoan the fact that immigration is changing British culture - it isn't. British cultureS include English, Welsh, Scottish, Asian, African, African-Caribbean, Chinese, Muslim, Christian, Atheist, Humanist etc. British culture (singular) refers to this mix of overlapping groups. Most of these cultures are multi-racial - Asian culture is multi-racial, Muslim culture is multi-racial etc.
Larger categories are used in monitoring but these larger categories have gradually been and are still being deconstructed. One day I may put on the form Ethnic Group 67 and those collating the data will know what that means. Many countries went through this transition years ago http://countrystudies.us/nepal/31.htm
James Lovelock says that it is not only inevitable but necessary for much much more immigration to occur before the world ecosytem stabilises again and he acknowledges that it will be harsh but says it will produce new forms of creativity.
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Live TV is not good for the immune system. NN location stuff is almost always technically terrible - last night Kirsty had to contend with a mike going dead and then for a second it seemed like Schama's had gone dead and maybe the whole lot. I hope you lot at NN, her PA, Jeremy and who ever look after Kirsty a bit, its not good .
I'm off for a while mim look after you.
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Plums shall not rot!!
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from mimpromptu
Haven’t we had a beautiful autumn, Streetphotobeing?
With all its colours history's in the making
Though not the way cookieducker's pretending.
Ah, the 2 fingers his people are showing!?
Methinks they don't know what they are doing.
The whole thing is simply far too debasing
For Madam Mim to carry on watching
She much prefers gliding and twirling.
Be it on ice or be it with rhymes
Plus snapping away momentous times.
Both the ephemeral and the eternal
Knitted together with those of the carnal.
I hope you find it pleasurable what you're planning to do, Streetphotobeing.
mim
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#45 wappaho
James Lovelock says that it is not only inevitable but necessary for much much more immigration to occur before the world ecosytem stabilises again and he acknowledges that it will be harsh but says it will produce new forms of creativity.
Do you think it will lead to the eventual dumbing down of western societies as suggested by JJ? I hadn't noticed England become particularly brighter, in fact the total opposite. And creativity seems to have vanished, I can't say I'm ever impressed with the Turner Prize candidates, with the exception of Grayson Perry. I regard him in the mold of the great english eccentric! ; )
As an example of changing ecosysems. Do you think this means that eventually Bangladesh which is almost below sea level and has around 17 million people will have to move into India?
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Hhhmmm looks as though other people have caught up with my quote above!
http://www.express.co.uk/comments/view/313855
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And an open door for Romanian Romanys http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222638/Judge-rules-travellers-are-allowed-stay-Essex-green-belt-land-calling-victims.html
Aren't our judges wonderful! : ) They don't live in the real world as the rest of us do, they are so well paid, they live in a luxuary world. Or have an alterior motive to force us into what they personally want.
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THERE ARE WAYS AND THERE ARE WAYS OF ADDRESSING THE SAME POINT
Well posted Ecolizzie. Personally, all I want to address is head-in-the-sand NONTHINK. If I am into oppression and deportation, again, I will apply it exclusively to NONTHINK. I tried to address one part of this time-bomb (#35/6) but, clearly, I stated my question far too unambiguously.
I have personal experience - in the sphere of human behaviour - that is relevant and telling, but 1984 is upon us . . .
I don't think either Churchill or Lovelock was/is a better guesser than I am. Knowing the future is difficult - knowing the madness of PC in the present is all-too-easy (except, perhaps, for the Blogdog?)
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WAS EVERYONE A TONY BLAIR ADVISER/SPEECH WRITER FOR 15 MINUTES? (#44)
They just keep coming out of the (rotten) woodwork Lizzie. They say Blair was lazy and shallow. Do read Mullin diaries if you have time. In a very ingenuous way (or was he the ultimate Machiavellian?) they tell all, and though I say it myself, confirm much that I had deduced about the Westminster GAME.
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IT'S THE SAME PROBLEM AGAIN. SUDDEN MIXING OF 'PEOPLE OF DIFFERENCE' (#51)
Cooking with Gas Lizzie (there goes your footprint - unless it's bio).
As said before, my observation is that DIFFERENCE destabilises AT AN ANIMAL LEVEL. When some cerebrally-based judgment declares such mixing 'OK', mayhem follows. Most (possibly all) crime is animal-based but law/'justice' is - broadly speaking - cerebrally applied. Until we acknowledge our true nature (we could start with my #35/6!) misery will increase and endure.
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#49 & #51 from mimpromptu
ecolizzy
Interesting that you quote James Lovelock talking of the hope for the mankind resting on multiculteral future. When I was still living surrounded by intellectual artists, I remember a then friend of mine (Turkish) talking exactly along similar lines.
With regard to Lord Justice Stadlen's decision, whatever the pros and cons of having travellers living close by, it shows his humanity, considering that one traveller was pregnant and that there was a very sick person amongst them. So not all is lost on the human front, thank the Lord.
mim
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#52 & #53 from mimpromptu
Mr Barrie Singleton
The 1984 problem is not all due to politicians, is it? It is maddening to think that so many politicians, intellectuals, director generals and journalists have been allowing themselves to succumb to delusions of grandure to a shallow schizophrenic but the ultimate responsibility rests on his shoulders and on those of 2 of his 'colleagues'.
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44 ..Why have I never heard this quote before! ..
its an old idea. If a nation is formed out of a common feeling among a group of people then one of the ways to effect change in that nation is to affect the common feeling by changing the make up of that group of people.
so in the 70's i remember reading a socialist plan to flood the uk with migrants to change that common feeling that would break the unity of the prevailing consensus [which they wanted to change for their own revolutionary ends].
given much of nulabour are old marxists and what not they would have been aware of this plan of mass migration as a means to effect change in uk society. making it ripe for socialist internationalist thinking.
and its worked. in the uk there is now no longer any common feeling and there is a fracturing of the consensus. we are now a nation at war with itself. we spend billions a year on internal security to protect us from 'british citizens', we have a rise of neofascist parties as 'mainstream' and society is split into a hundred different 'common feeling groups' who do not talk nor understand each other. Govt polices have encouraged people not to integrate but to remain in their ghettos.
unlimited migration is just as an extremist [and dangerous to the state] policy as no migration. The socialists were lucky. The EU has this extremist unlimited migration policy so they could say all they are doing is abiding by uk law. The merchant class want migrants as cheap flexible labour so through greed they were also doing the socialist bidding to create the conditions that will break the common feeling and so the common consensus.
so 30 years ago this policy of mass migration as a catalyst to change the common feeling from which a state grows by changing the composition of that group was well known among those who wanted to break the british state establishment consensus and so effect change.
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curious thurs NN with emily is not available? is there some contractual copyright that prevents it?
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#57 bookhimdano Thanks very much for that explanation, it was very clearly written, and makes sense to me. Most of us are too busy getting on with our lives, and trying to have a carer, or bring up a family, we don't notice what governance is doing to us until it is too late. Now I think about it, I can see how this was done! : ( And yes social cohesion has completely disappeared here, look how every immigrant thinks we must adhere to their view of the world, and their religion and politics. HHhmmm methinks the BNP have hit some very raw nerves amongst the english, might be an idea to change their name, ENP, after all we have the SNP. ; )
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Barrie you write so very well, and are so witty! (I presume I will always have your support now! ;o) )
Yes I think we forget we are all animal really, I don't think there are any wise people left in England.
I've never, until recently, realised how much we are censored and controlled, so have I become wise, or just very very cynical.
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bookemdano (#57) "given much of nulabour are old marxists and what not they would have been aware of this plan of mass migration as a means to effect change in uk society. making it ripe for socialist internationalist thinking."
Nothing to challenge in the thrust of your posts, except to urge you to note that Trotskyites were also 'Marxists' but they were/are anti-statists. Think of them as the Militant Tendency who undermined Labour. Think of them as New left, New Labour, Neo-Conservatives. Think of all Western 'Marxists' as Trotskyites or Neo-conservatives (anarchists) and you will see the true nature of 'anarchism in the UK' since at least the 70s. What was being taken down? Anarchism was promoted in the 70s by the music business, controlled by whom? To what end? Individualism is anarchism. It is at odds with social duty to one another.
In recent times we have witnessed an assault on state education via the salami technique used everywhere else to undermine the state aka Public Services. It's as insidious as it is relentless. By abandoning Key Stage SATs, many schools stopped 'teaching to the test' in what used to be good 'teaching to the test', i.e they used to teach the National Curriculum....When KS3 SATs went many stopped teaching parts of the National Curriculum! National Socialism is quite innocent. It is just standardization of practice across a large group, for the benefit of the group. Sniping at bits of that in the NHS, education, Royal Mail, utilities etc via Permanent Revolution has one clear agenda, namely privatization - i.e Balkanization, the destruction of the 'greater family' of the UK. This is Trotskyist Anarchism at work. It is why Naked Capitalism and Jewish International Bolshevism (Trotsky-Zinoviev Comintern) are in fact two sides of the same, individualistic/narcissistic, coin. This has nothing in common with socialism or Stalinism (the PRC today or Old Labour). The latter has its roots in British, not Jewish socialism. Even the original Marxists were in London after all!
[fortune cookie on]
We are seeing not too bright immigrant BME groups being abused like children in order to Balkanize Britain. They want their identity, but at the expense of being British.... They are just not bright enough, as a body, to see what they are doing, it is anarchistic. Lowish IQ is like being infantile/adolescent - hence narcissism is an 'infantile disorder', and as we know, one can't put an old (wiser) head on young shoulders...
[fortune cookie off]
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ecolizy (#60) "so have I become wise, or just very very cynical."
I suspect you have always been 'wise' ecolizzy. Don't become very cynicial, just continue being very active. This requires group effort - a critical mass - albeit a self-critical one ;-)
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Have Your Say (But BBC will have its way)
Most posters here seem to agree that attempts to demonise BNP achieved an own goal. We are indeed fortunate that NN moderation is reasonably tolerant: perhaps a benefit of outsourcing?
For a broader view I also look to BBC's Have Your Say, which has the advantage of having a 'Recommend' button to indicate level of support, but disadvanteges of a limit of 500 keytaps, plus lengthy and (apparently) manipulative monitoring, by limiting choice of topics available for Have Your Say, and delaying posts to distort support.
The most 'recommended' posts, now approaching 1000 each were:
"Nick Griffin stands up and says what a lot of people in the UK think on subjects like immigrations, Muslims and homosexuality, but they are too frightened to say it because of political correctness. He's to be applauded for his openness and honesty - unlike the rest of our mainstream parties."
"People in Britain are too scared to say what they really feel. I want our country to be our country regardless of colour. If you live in Britain you should live by our rules. I don't want to have to not say things because it may offend another religion or not say a poem with the words "black sheep" in it because it may offend. This is our country. I want it back!!! This debate has brougfht it to light and the BBC were right to allow it". and
"How laughable that Jack Straw accused Nick Griffin of not answering a question! Griffin critiqued Islam, rightly pointing out that it is at odds with democracy and women's equality, and it is reported as 'Griffin attacks Islam!' Do not take the public for fools BBC. We saw who the anti-democracy, anti-free speech thugs were, they were rioting outside Television Centre. I would not be surprised to see this blatant left wing bias drive many thousands to vote BNP".
My comment is still 'Awaiting Moderation'(?)although some 25 pages of others were posted later than mine, for which I am awaiting explanation. Perhaps the NN blogdog will accept it:-
"Early in the 'show' I thought BNP would be wiped out by the interrogation treatment; but it became so obviously set up to stifle serious debate on current issues that it backfired.
An Own Goal by the 'lynch mob'?
BBC was right to resist pressure to drop Griffin;
The 'anti's' wrong to distort the true purpose of Question Time;
Reaction: proof that the public are not being treated to 'openness and transparency';
Result: more support for BNP and other 'English first' parties."
COMMENT STATUS: Awaiting moderation
Despite several e-mails I have never received an explanation from BBC as to why their newsreaders read out 'random'(?) e-mails rather than quote those most recommended by their viewers and listeners, surely a better indication of Public Opinion, and a less questionable practice?
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#59 from mimpromptu
ecolizzy
Although originally I was an immigrant and to some degree still am, it is a few English people who for years have been trying to impose their views on me rather than the other way.
Having realised that others seem to be listening to what I have to say and watching what I am up to, I thought I might as well share my musings and arm waving the way I really feel and not to the dictats of anybody else.
My position has always been clear, take it or leave it. I'm not into imposing any views on anybody but I seem to be paying a very, very harsh price for simply what I am and how I am despite all the attention given to me. I have no access to any other buttons than on my blouses, trousers, Philips laptop and iphone.
It's not my fault that I seem to be stirring people's emotions and am not ready to give up being authentic. Well, that's how I think I am at least.
You're right about Mr Barrie Singleton, he can be supportive but personally I don't rely on any of his help or anything like that. It's just sometimes interesting to read his posts.
I sincerely hope things will look better for you in the future, Lizzy, and that you'll sort out your domestic problems and find interesting things to occupy yourself with. There are so many fine and worthwhile things one can do with and for others.
mim
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CHECK OUT 'CYNICAL' - THEN WHAT THE CYNICS ACTUALLY ESPOUSED (#60)
You, of all posters Lizzie, know you will get my support for just as long as you adhere to rational, self-enquiring, cogent posts. (How's that for reciprocation?) Fortunately, you cannot appeal to my animal, as I have my fantasy-life well under control, and a good grounding in human behaviour (affording considerable diversion when reading this blog/forum!) Of course, if we met in the supermarket, and shared a 'family face' - Oh no - not again!
Standing back - objectively: HomSap has used his big brain to take a series of steps unconducive to sustainable, quiescence. Whether from fear or ignorance, the dumb consensus is that this is progress - forward motion. No other animal does this, to my knowledge. If you are a group of Galapagos finch, blown to another island, the new habitat will shape you up or 'ship you out'. Clearly such an approach to change, works. We Humans are all, now, thoroughly out of shape and (ironically) 'shipping in' otherness, like there is 'no tomorrow'. Taking that objective view - I doubt there is, at least, not in the current configuration.
With 'worldly things' as the are - I'll be a Cynic (but eschewing the OCD extremes).
PS My guess is that the dumb Greek masses saw unattainable worth in the Cynic stance, so applied their designation as a term of abuse. 'Twas ever thus.'
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LIGHTBULB TIME (#63)
Hi IDG2! Just had a thought. When the Blogdog has a long nap before opening his canines to release a post, he should RE-POST IT IN THE CURRENT SLOT. Don't hold your breath.
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#59 ecolizzy "HHhmmm methinks the BNP have hit some very raw nerves amongst the english, might be an idea to change their name, ENP, after all we have the SNP. ; )"
That's why I have welcomed the recent growth of parties and organisation with 'English' or 'England' in their title. e.g English Democratic Party.
We are neither a race nor a religion, yet we all know what defines us, and nobody can masquerade as English simply by attending a 'welcome ceremony'. This would avoid the racism slur and the challenge of 'there are no indigenous people in Britain'.
As any discrimination by race or religion has now been denied us by law, the party could change name as you suggest and build on the boost it has obviously received. They or other newer parties could perhaps also apply membership criteria such as requiring evidence of contibutions to UK taxes for a minimum number of years, unless the new Equalities legislation plans to stamp out all distinguishing characteristics in its multicultural melting pot.
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OH NO - NOT ANOTHER LIGHTBULB! (#67)
A lot of recent brain-scanning seems to indicate much is revealed when you get past the devious human exterior. NOT SUGGESTING INFALLIBLE!
When it comes to bogus tolerance of 'this and that', I would put Jack Straw (for a start) in a scanner, and test his lovely, 'all-embracing' credentials.
So much more I could add but Blogdog is too close to Pavlovdog these days.
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Hhhhmm everyone seems on top form this morning, interesting posts. And some funny ones. Yes Indi I've been reading that Have Your Say, nothing wrong with your post, but I've given up there, they are very strict. And I love how you're moderated pages and pages later, so why bother posting. This is a very good description of the situation Indi...
We are neither a race nor a religion, yet we all know what defines us, and nobody can masquerade as English simply by attending a 'welcome ceremony'. This would avoid the racism slur and the challenge of 'there are no indigenous people in Britain'.
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Mim the twirler, much as I love you, you are typical of all immigrants. I've no objection to you living here, and I like the Polish, they've had a hard time. The problem is you all think you are far more important than the indigenous population, yes I welcome your views, but you don't read properly what the rest of us write. You must try to understand the idiom of the sentence, not just the words, and now I'm sounding like JJ! oops ; )
Just to set you straight, my children are grown up and all have professional jobs, and I'm an elderly person as the delightful Ms Bakewell would say.
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#61 JJ Hhhmmm and as I had the best years of my life in the '60s I think I now see where it all went wrong. It was us, the me,me,me, generation, who had money and only thought of enjoying ourselves, bugger society we all said, it's all about freedom, free love, drink, drugs and sex. I don't think the British have got over it yet. Is this when are selfishness started? I also remember the serious '50s and shortages, and Cuban missile crisis, I thought the world was going to end, did everybody, so it's live now and don't worry about tomorrow.
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This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
#67 indignantindegene
!"That's why I have welcomed the recent growth of parties and organisation with 'English' or 'England' in their title. e.g English Democratic Party.
We are neither a race nor a religion, yet we all know what defines us, and nobody can masquerade as English simply by attending a 'welcome ceremony'. This would avoid the racism slur and the challenge of 'there are no indigenous people in Britain'."
So the English Defence League shown with their faces covered with their balaclavas are right up your street? Thats what the country needs - maybe they could start patrolling the streets like the SA?
The race issue would still be there as you imply that those people of race born in this country are not full citizens and that people could not be invited to this country on the basis that they are equal due to their race. A white Australian would be OK and a refugee from Darfur would not?
I could get into the whole fact that Griffin is not a Nazi; the BNP is not a Nazi; the Jaded_Jean cohorts are not Nazi's or the BNP yet on this page you get an almost daily dose of the virtues of National Socialism and the virtues of Hitlers policies.
The far right dream is of a race war and National Socialism replacing democracy.
Clearly if a civil war did kick off it would be exceptionally violent and ruthless as democrats know exactly what the Nazis are about and what they would do given the chance. The BNP obviously knows that they know.
The interesting thing will be to see whether the far right hysteria at their success creates tensions within the cult that leads to its destruction from within.
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#63 indignantindegene
"Most posters here seem to agree that attempts to demonise BNP achieved an own goal. "
Other posters blessed with healthy cynicism would suggest the latter group are the BNP as they daily promote National Socialism, a racial view of politics consistent with the Nazis and admire Hitler. Holocaust "agnosticism" and portrayal of Jews as an "internal political and economic enemy" really are signals as to what these people are like.
Some share characteristics in common with Nick Griffin. For instance one Holocaust "agnostic" had an RAF grandfather in WWII. Tail gunner I believe.
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'INDIGENOUS IS AS INDIGENE DOES' - BACK TO THE ANIMAL?
An animal is said to be empowered when in its own territory, and an invader disempowered. Strength of ownership, I would presume, increases with length of tenure and successful defence (also excreta deposited and, for human animals: dead interred).
Clearly an animal 'knows' when it is indigenous. As we are animals, this will also apply, fundamentally, to us. BUT - as I am at pains to point out: we are The Ape Confused by Language and further confused by cleverness leading to the means of massive influx by 'others' and confounding PC invention. I suggest, that while IDG2 and I KNOW we are indigenous (not denying all you others) there are many among us carrying degrees of uncertainty, that can come to the fore when society is stressed (as is coming?) There are, of course, ways of disguising uncertainty though, paradoxically, animal-instinct can often see through such.
As I said above: we need to admit to our animal/cerebral mismatch if angst is to be reduced.
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#65/68 Barrie
WATT TURNS YOU ON?
"Fortunately, you cannot appeal to my animal, as I have my fantasy-life well under control, and a good grounding in human behaviour"
Come on, lighten up, resistance can cause a fuse to blow, better to liberate the libido; it can be very illuminating.
"Standing back - objectively:....No other animal does this, to my knowledge"
Teilhard de Chardin (in The Phenomenon of Man) believed that when humankind began living in the state of REFLECTIVENESS, our progress was inevitable; we would enjoy ‘not only survival, but super-life’.
Hence my Transcendental Meditation, in which I can and frequently do, reflect on what a fantastic super-life I (and Western Society generally) have to enjoy. That includes revelling in the animal within, deciding that I will continue (as all of nature) to choose which breeds I will associate with, which individuals I decide are superior or inferior, and even which man-made laws I consider as an ass, and ignore.
On reflection, I'll supress any further details, lest the blogdog clamps his jaws on my bone of contention. I'll join the queue patiently waiting for him to release my gems awaiting moderation: after you with yours.
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#32 jaded_Jean
"Studio guests who really don't know what they're talking about any more than the wo/man in the street, all talking absolute nonsense, with no shame at all...."
Hmm, you would be the same Jaded_Jean who thinks the Holocaust was made up to put people off statists and that any violence was not carried out by the Nazis (statists) but by the Russians who were Stalinists and therefore "statists" in your view.
Meanwhile Old Labour ("statists") were at war with Nazi Germany.
You feel the BNP - who aren't a Nazi Party and therefore in your view not "statist" - are a natural home for these "statist" voters.
Many of them would not understand that you would replace democracy with National Socialism and hence their votes would be their last acts in a democracy.
But you yourself are not a Nazi and you aren't the BNP.
I refer back to the post some time ago where you called me an "anarchist and Trotskyite" who "paints Hitler as darkly as possible for party political reasons".
Talking nonsense with no shame at all .... it does sound so very familiar.
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I YIELD IDG2 (#78)
I wish I had thought of the 'bone of contention'. Nice!
Wouldn't it be great if we could throw the Blogdog a diverting bone and then slip a contentious post past, while he is chewing.
Not sure you caught my drift. Also suspect T de Ch (by my reading) was not entirely free from religious tenets and constraints, when making his judgements.
6 billion + on the planet - most moving away from 'reflectiveness' hmmmm.
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#75/76 Gangof1(you really are!) No comment; I've said it all before - and so have you.
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thegangofone (#79) "Talking nonsense with no shame at all .... it does sound so very familiar."
Yup! :-(
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The National Socialists who post on here often try to stress how close the "statist" Stalinists and National Socialists were - probably in an attempt to dupe disillusioned Labour voters.
The tyrant Stalin at the Seventeenth Party Congress in January 1934 said:
"Of course we are far from enthusiastic about the fascist regime in Germany. But fascism is not the issue, if only for the reason that fascism in Italy, for example, has not prevented the Soviet Union from establishing the best relations with that country."
So there was no ideological agreement - just practical statecraft.
Some may also consider that the Spanish Civil War 1936-1939 (perhaps a precursor to the far right dream of a British race war leading to National Socialism?) further dampened that enthusiasm as the Nazis and Soviets were on different sides.
Still more may say that Hitler invading the Soviet Union and killing some twenty five million "sub-human Slavs" may have dented that enthusiasm still further and may explain why Germany was divided for many decades.
The Old Labour elements of the WWII government were not known to be "enthusiastic" about the "statist" Nazis that they were at war with curiously.
Still the National Socialists who post on this page aren't Nazis - they just revere Hitler.
The BNP are not Nazi's and there seems little evidence that they are "statists".
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#60 Ecolizzy
You are correct I moved to Scotland
#78 Indy2
Teilhard de Chardin (in The Phenomenon of Man)
Important influence on me. Amazing how he invented the internet all those years ago, he just called it noosphere.
Celtic Lion
eltic Lion
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TEILHARD DE CHARDIN: PATRON SAINT OF GLOBAL PORNOGRAPHY?
The Internet: Not so much a noosphere more a nihilosphere, Celtic. I don't see any sign of the Omega Point on the horizon. I think all 6+ billion are going to end up on the 'Wrong Side of History' - even Magic Obama.
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thegangofone (83) Read Sidney and Beatrice Webb's 'Soviet Communism: A New Civilization' and look up Clause IV of The Labour Party. Read this too.
You have to remember that there was a power struggle in the USSR after Lenin's death, that the original Bolshevikswerre jut anarchists sent in t o get Russia out of WWI, and that this struggle between the original Jewish Bolsheviks and those wanting to establish 'Socialism in One Country', i.e the Russian socialists, continued throughout the 1930s. Sometimes countries which have the same ideology do go to war with each other. As far as I am concerend, it is still not entirely clear to all historians (or intelligence services) what exactly happened between Germany and the USSR from June 1941 onwards and why. I suggest you give this some thought, instead of being so abusive.
In the end, perhaps you should be focusing on what's happening in Britain today? Are Public Services being built up, or is there an anarchistic process of privatisation being promulgated by all three liberal-democractic parties? If the latter is the case, why is it being done? Why do parties trying to thwart it elicit such hissy-fits?
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I can buy a green light bulb for thirty quid, someones making a fortune on our guilt of killing the planet. The next time Newsnight does a global warming slot I'm gonna be outside the studios protesting this bogus science - can i say 'bogus' as I've heard that's an illegal word now. If you can't spot that the fat sweating fraudulent bum Al Gore as a con man, your without doubt doomed to believe that Aunty beeb is an impartiality driven corporation. I see the Griffin experience has left the BBC with a nasty rash and no amount of ointment applied is gonna clear it up. More worryingly the Beeb has shown clear signs of that serious illness akin to that dreadful disease alzheimer's. Maybe aunty Beeb needs to spend its final days in a care home away from the rest of us, we could sell off her assets and spend the cash on some carbon footprint offsetting light bulbs.
Out of control Immigration was Govt engineered as reported today - a Govt conspiracy...no surprises with that. All Labour has achieved is put a far right political party on the map. Not many bright lights in this Labour Govt...I mean, look at Jack the hack.
Is Obama just another puppet president and dancing to the banksters tune in Wall St? is your mind manipulated by dark hidden forces; machinations from the banking cartels making you except willingly their global governance agenda? Stuff Paul Mason won't go near in reporting is in the following link. Sadly no mention of Blair becoming president of Europe in this documentary - something that should send a chill down your spine but since we are too busy watching xfactor on ice...
The fall of the republic:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel#p/a
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GO1: someone helped themselves to my Gibson sunburst 83 and am deeply upset - am missing her but now that I've read your post...i can finally raise a smile...thanks buddie..the clouds have lifted:)
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#86
Right Idea Wrong Implementation
Have to agree with you Barrie. This little planet did OK for billions of years without a noosphere. Then one came along, which was still not much of a problem.
Still find it hard to get across to the greens, climate changers etc al that what they are addressing is not the problem. The problem and cause is the poisoning and contamination of the noosphere with lies, false ideas, mistaken beliefs and the rest of the tat many wrongly think is reality-these propagated to even greater concentration by an unquestioning and even irresponsible media.
The Omega Point being a universal concept doesn't necessarily mean it will have to happen on our planet. We could just be one of the failed experiments in progress to achieve it.
Perhaps somewhere else, not looking too good for achieving it here though. Shame really.
None achievement of Omega Point at a planetary level automatically relates to extinction of higher life on the planet. An inescapable law of cosmic evolution. In the leap of evolution, if you don't grab the trapeze, you crash to the circus floor.
Celtic Lion
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Newsnight, Friday 23 October 2009 was bloody amazing. I can only marvel at the amount of work it must have taken to put that together, and how well it came out on the night. Glad to see Hari Kunzru on too.
Many thanks to all involved, truly the BBC at it's best. For anyone who's at all interested in economics, current events, history or the arts, this is must see TV.
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AS I KEPT SAYING: ORATORY AND ADULATION BELONG TO 'THE WRONG SIDE OF MESSIANICS'.
Thanks for the link Cookie. I am part way in. I know nothing of world finance but politicians are just impoverished people - Lego figures. Easy to deconstruct.
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41 cookie
on the whole the film had some good points [if a bit cabin in the woods at times].
carbon trading is a racket. climate change is a religion and as we all have a 'carbon footprint' we are all 'sinners' which means taxing a person's very existence. I thought the banning of hydrogen monoxide [H2O] would actually get lots of signatures!!!
if they could get rid of some of the more flakey bits there would be a good film in there.
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FURTHER TO MY #92
If 9/11 had not been an 'inside job' these guys would be going ape, and demanding to know why such a superb opportunity was missed!
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#90 Addition
Barrie and others with knowledge of DeChardin and Omega Point synthesis and trajectory determination.
This has been posted here before from No 10s website. In reality it was a critical mass Omega Point generator.
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ecodome/
Though posted in 2006 you can infer the accuracy of the project had the Government decided to implement it. From the calculation of figures £250bn divided by 5 years = £50bn per year.
Exactly the amount of the contraction of the UK in the present recession. Had the UK Government gone for the Omega Point generation project at the Dome the UK economy would not have gone in to recession, as the trajectory would have put the UK and the world on a path to Omega Point attainment.
Despite NN parading their Black Swans and the rest of the acceptable media prophets. Things like economic crash were known for years from deviation from effective Omega Point generation trajectories.
Celtic Lion
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NOT EXACTLY 'LISTEN WITH MOTHER'
Oh how things have changed. What do you think thegagofone? Is it anti-semitic persecution, or just persectution?
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i can understand why americans are worried about the FED. It would be like the british bankers association setting interest rates and handing out bailouts.
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from mimpromptu
ecolizzy
When dud U say that I knew everything? I keep learning new things about the world, the others and about myself evry day. I have been learning from people like Jeremy Paxman & Streetphotobeing, for example. An enormous amount! And they never try to force it down my throat. I hope that, perhaps, they've learned something from me as well though I fully admit to not having their breadth of knowledge.
mim
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from mimpromptu
Ecolizzy
I meant to say 'When did I say, etc
sorry
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thecookieducker (#88) I fear Alex Jones is an evangelical, right-wing, aka anarchistic, libertarian, 'nutter', mainly because he seems to get just a tad too excited and bcause there is a kind of web business these days which incites excitement primarily to sell ... advertising space and thwart regulation.
Just an opinion.
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Why did you have to go to New York to cover a story about the Depression? I'm sure you all enjoyed the break but it made no difference to viewers . If you've got money to waste on unnecessary transatlantic jaunts then its clear your budget needs to be cut.
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mimpromptu (#99) 'Said that' (unlike 'said' or 'wrote' where the referent is a written or verbal statement verbatim) is an intensional (mental) idiom of propositional attitude like thinks that, believes that etc. The key is a psychological verb and the word 'that' (sometimes implicit). One can not point to explicit instances of someone's thinking or belief, which is the problem with these idioms. One resorts to dodgy dramatic projection, i.e creation, or fabrication, under such circumstances. This causes no end of problems, often without those doing so ever being aware of the problems it creates.
People infer/create such notions from a critical mass of behaviours....They are a crude type of theorizing i.e guessing about behaviours and what connects them. They are the essence of common-sense folk psychology, but much of it is superstitious and flawed.
These idioms are, oddly enough, avoided in the science of behaviour as they are logically/empirically so unsound. Learning to express oneself in another way (language-game) is very hard work, but it's worth the effort for the clarity it sometimes brings (by the confusion which doing so helps avoid). It is hard work though, and it sometimes leaves one speechless ;-)
'Mentally ill' people (and politicians!) seem to talk almost exclusively in intensional terms. So do primitive cultures (magiical thinking) and people. (think of 'witches' etc).
Hope this helps.
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SURELY DATA ARE DATA JJ? WHAT WE DO WITH DATA IS UP TO US.
I was struck by how much of the footage linked at #88 seemed to support your hypothesis. Have I missed something?
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INSIDIOUS FREEDOMS
barrie (#103) It's the way that these things are cut, i.e edited which makes me suspicious. I have watched the beginnings of a few of these now and I always seem to react the same way. First, this is the USA, the land of the free, the land of economic anarchism. They seem to see 'world government' as a conspiracy to thwart their individualism, whilst I see what's emerging as an effort to secure the free-markets aka individualism at the expense of consumers via legislation which disempowers states! The threat, as I see it, is legislation which paralyzes, i.e removes the protection of the individual from predators. This is what the 'Greater EU' seems to be to me, it enshriens the right to run a business etc, it keeps the state at bay! With this comes more privatisation and constant (permanent) revolution. That to me is Trotskyite, aka anarchistic.
Have I not made that clear? Maybe I haven't. I don't think we have a society capable of surving without a nanny state - as we have gone dysgenic... infants can not self-regulate, or self-manage. Left to their own devices they will stuff dope, booze and glue etc into their orifices :-(
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JJ. "Right wing and evangelical" oops! you've fallen into the trap that all US radio talkshow host or alternative media outlets appear like right wing nutters, though in fairness, an easy stereotype to make, so your forgiven. We are so used to having our information and news via the likes of the BBC, a lifetime diet of slick productions that we just have difficulty excepting anything else (less); we wont even entertain getting past the hosts page adverts, so we don't even bother clicking the vid. Curtis or Pilger could produce this kind of documentary, used the same information but with their own style of production and with BBC funding, it would be raved about and award winning. Bottom line is widen your perspective when gathering information and then agree, disagree or debate. Sometimes we think we are so smart we don't even feel the finger tap on the shoulder telling us something different, new or even a challenge to our own beliefs...because our overly inflated ego is way too far up are own a***...not that I am suggesting that yours is:)
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from mimpromptu
What is the weather like where you are, Streetphotobeing?
Here in London by the Blue Moon
It's pleasant and peaceful while drinkers are chatting
What is currently the time in Khartoum?
mim
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#88 Cookieducker
Up to part 9 of the Fall of the Republic
Very interesting. Thanks
Celtic Lion
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thecookieducker (#105) All I am ponting out is that Alex Jones appears to me to host right-wing, i.e libertarian, material. This is precixely what led to the Credit Crunch from my point oif view. It is very easy to be seducced by the 'freedom' and 'independence' grand rhetoric. It is precisely this which turns people into gullible, obese, consumers - i.e. prey. One has to look at what he's attacking, whichif you look closely, is Big Government. Think Royal Mail! Think Thatcher..
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A little clip for you mim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88gXWW3qN7o&feature=fvw
The human form understood fully by a Greek 2480 years ago and not by Hitler:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kritios_Boy
I like listening to Ramachandran the verbal exaggeration goes well with what his talking about and am always in great awe of my ancestors.
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49 Bangladesh, Wiki, It is believed that in the coming decades the rising sea level alone will create more than 25 million climate refugees.[50]
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110 - does anyone? I rarely have a clue what mim and streetfoto are talking about or Barrie and Celtic Lion but I nevertheless enjoy their contributions as it reminds me that much as I like to think I understand everything, I actually understand very little and there is also the thrill that maybe I will understand the post. I only understand your posts because I have naively observed for decades the topics that you reference, and Lizzie's because her posts would make sense to anyone with a grasp of English. I think we are all just a patchwork of expression and NPD. The comments at Flanders and Easton seem a little more erudite - perhaps you have outgrown reception class where we learn through play? or maybe you could be persuaded to dip your toe in the sandpit of heinous western individualism? Go1 gets the prize though for repeating the same incoherent and incomprehensible but clearly heart-felt utterances, I'm thinking in particular about the dyslexia and church bells, it's hardly news that some offical perjured himself, woods and trees spring to mind. Any news on the Michelin system?
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49 I think JJ's conjecture is accurate but I don't think conjectures work in isolation but cumulatively and competitively with other conjectures and also with social policies, otherwise evolution would be predictable. I believe evolution is linear, which is as heinous as Holocaust Denial, in the sense that the genes that brought the main civilisations into existence will survive. But on the local level, I think Cameron will win the next election. Welfare, NHS, Border controls, social housing will be reformed and mass employment will continue. The UK will become less attractive to incomers, families on low income will start planning a bit more, and the century will get under way with a different festival every month, the continued destruction of the English language and more rioting in France. C'est la vie. From what I understood in the staff room of a fast food restaurant, there will be groups of not only wealthy people that move around between countries, so migration may become more transitory. I think we're a very creative country. I enjoyed the discussion about satire on NNR. Simon Shama makes me laugh. He did one TV series and for the most part he kept his hands in his pockets but his shoulders were waggling like mad. He's nomadic (Terence Watts, 'Warriors, Settlers, Nomads' - it's a great read).
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#111 wappaho
It was my work that was the foundation of the 2005G8 agenda climate change and Africa. It was me who came up with the risk assessment that climate change was a greater threat than terrorism which the UK Gov's Chief Scientist Sir David King gave global publicity to.
For those who are watching Fall of the Republic part 10 is about the political consequences of my work.
What I attempted to do was use climate change as a an example of global ecological system collapse as a concern as opposed to the war on Iraq, which I opposed.
Global politics and the media seized on part of my work and then misappropriated what I said. Then cut me out of the loop in order to protect the politicians who achieved global status quoting parts of my work.
The BBC admit my knowledge of climate change is far beyond that of their reporters and the experts they have on. So they aren't going to give me a platform to explain and inform an audience what is the the best informed assessment.
They don't really want the apple cart drivel they present as truth upsetting. Climate change was an introduction, an example. Not the be all and end all of planetary management.
Billions are going to die, just because the media have decided to present drivel, pr political rubbish, instead of informed actuality.
25 million climate refugees? If only the media took the situation seriously and not some excuse to spin rubbish from the top entry of a researchers mobile.
Celtic Lion
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#112 wappaho
The reason why many might not understand what Barrie and myself or indy2 or others ate writing about may be due to the narrow extremist agenda the BBC present and not the broad spectrum of knowledge, wisdom and understanding available.
There again you could always do an internet search for Omega Point, and take it from there.
Celtic Lion
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How bad will it be?
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KingCelticLion (#114) Most of the time the media just write stories. If you look over at the Mark Easton blog, it's closed for comments. Why? Basically because people can't talk about race.
If I say Black people are robbers, is that true? Of course it is (some are, and some=at_least_one). If I say all Black people are robbers is that true? Or coure not. If I say Jews are financial predators and liars, is that true? Yes of course it is - with the same caveat. If I say all Jews are financial predators and liars, is that true? No of course it isn't.
How do we ever know that what we say or believe is true or false? How do we ever know who is the origin of an 'idea'? How many people know how to write a true statement?
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thecookieducker #88
I've been talking about the contents of your link for years but everybody dismisses me as a complete nutter when I talk of the Corporate Multinational Cartel etc.
Its all part of a celebrity stock market parasite inspired " Corporate Nazi " ideology where large corporations and fascist leaning NGO's lobby government to make everything as inefficient ( difficult ) and expensive as possible, especially for people living in rural areas. A key part of the " Corporate Nazi " plan is the systematic dismantling of our UK welfare state whilst at the same time providing and expanding a virtual welfare state for the Banks and their stock market parasites
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from mimpromptu
Fascinating stuff, Streetphotobeing, thank you!
I wonder whether jj would approve of V.S.Ramachandran and give at least some credit to you for posting the link to me? I also wonder whether V.S.Ramachandran is into taps.
mim
P.S. I think I may be posting a ditty in a few moments. I should imagine that ditties could be classifed as brain's fun with 'intentional'(?) exaggeration on both the intellectual and the emotional level.
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from mimpromptu
The following is the answer to the question I posed at half past seven while sipping half a pint of Sharp's bitter in the Blue Moon Avenue. On my way back I bumped into a friend who seems very unwell and I'm now worried about him even more than before. I'll let you know tomorrow how he's doing. He once recited to me one of Shakespeare's sonnets by which I felt very moved. But here's the ditty:
I understand in Khartoum it is now 20 past midnight, Streetphotobeing,
But in a few hours it may be 3 hours that the difference will be,
Now that we’re going to move the clock’s arrows
Back rather than forward, physically that is.
Though at all other levels forward we go
Having an extra hour in bed to enjoy.
mim
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from mimpromptu
You know, Streetphotobeing, when I was looking up that chap Ramachandran I learned that he was cooperating with Professor Dawkins. Some time ago now I bought a few of the Professor's books but was put off by a few of his utterances about some experiment or other. I wonder whether it is anything to do with Ramachandran's attempts at working our brains out? It looks like it may be. I also wonder whether he too is into taps and piercing(?).
I would suggest that Professor Dawkins comes to Queen's. He might then decide to alter somewhat his philosophico-scientific perspective on the human being. I would be happy to do for him for example either one of the Mexican tunes or the Happiness song from the Flamenco Nuevo album, never mind the Blue Moon by Elvis, Edith Piaf's La Vie en Rose, Padam or Bal dans ma Rue or in fact Jerome's Fantasy. Hopefully one of those would shake up his brains a bit though he may be left somewhat confused so perhaps it is not a very good idea after all.
Sleep well, Streetphotobeing. I shall browse through a few more things yet before hitting one of the pillows.
mim
P.S. Do you believe in witches?
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from mimpromptu to Streetphotobeing
I woke up quite early, Streetphotobeing,
Although my armchair proves to be quite comfy.
That’s where I’ve been sleeping, Streetphotobeing,
Preferring these days the upright position
In which to rest my body and head
Facing street cycling and twirling ahead.
It’s now half past four on some of my clocks
While still half past five on others it shows
Like on my watch and the one that bleeps
Waking me up in times of the need
Though I must say I sometimes sleep through
Which I imagine to tiredness is due.
Whatever the clocks now show or they don’t
Have a good day,
Interesting sculpture the one made out of clay!
mim
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Omega Point is one of a number of theories about the logic of physics and the end of the universe. But the bit I don't understand is where your post trails off into rhetoric; you're saying 25million is peanuts in terms of the devastation, is it? What other causes of this will there be other than climate change, just the predestined journey to OP?
Interestingly, this week we have a programme about 2012 and another about denazification - is the BBC commissioning programmes based on these blogs?
The interesting thing about JJs post is that unless the extensional proposition is clearly identified in brackets, the mods read the sentence as 'all' and censor the comment.
mim there was a Horizon programme about consiousness last week - it was excellent. MRI tests show that decision-making occurs before we consiously decide. And that is the same conclusion Susan Blackmore came to using memetic theory. What is sad about Dawkins is that memetics explains and gives validity to some alternative therapies that he is so adamant are groundless, but when he did his programmme about it recently he didn't separate out alternative therapies into their very different roots in science e.g. physiological, memetic, physical, and finally the category that can be explained by none of the first three - but may be explained by Sheldrake's theory of morphic resonance.
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from mimpromptu to Streetphotobeing
Scientistis, Academics, Politicians & Whoever Else that's gone into their heads
When the worst is finished off of the game
I might then consider playing again
But otherwise they might as well forget
It ain't my worry if they're sorry or if they this regret.
mim
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WHEN SCIENCE IS ART, IT IS FOLLY TO SEEK DATA. (#123)
Hi Wapaho. I watched Horizon on iPlayer last night. I estimate there was a quarter-hour of information and three-quarters of 'art'. The time devoted the main-man walking about, and its total irrelevance, hurt my brain. Hence, I respectfully take issue with your 'excellent'. No offence intended.
I should admit I knew what to expect. Horizon is a painful reminder of the decay of gravitas in the modern ('Western') world.
On Radio 4, for so long, Quentin Cooper of 'Material World' was both verbose and addicted to pathetic puns. A change of producer seems to have squashed the puns, but the long, rambling questions, to those who have interesting science to deliver, continue. It is all of a - media - piece. 'Cutting Edge' survives; but for how long?
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Be grateful for small mercies! - if you can get France 24 there are some really good debates on where people speak in more than soundbites and are not talked over by the interviewer but a genuine exchange of intellectual viewpoints takes place politely but not without principle nor at times passion. Do you ever listen to Melvyn Bragg? He's good value, no? Dispatches is quite good too.
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THE EGOCENTRIC ARE BLIND TO ALLOCENTRICISM
barrie (#125) "I should admit I knew what to expect. Horizon is a painful reminder of the decay of gravitas in the modern ('Western') world."
Yes, I miss the days when Horizon truly lived up to its name, i.e. the days when one actually learned something about what was being done at the cutting edge of science ('web of belief'). These days, people treat knowledge and qualifikashuns as little more than bling.
The regular exchanges between mimpromptu and streetphotobeing in this blog serve as a daily reminder of the extent to which egocentricity has become de rigueur at the expense of us all, including, no doubt, themselves.
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Barrie, if you want some gravitas, the best I've seen lately is JJs link to a woman talking about NPD, she's a delight to watch, the perfect human demeanor. You would think twice before accusing her of not knowing what she is talking about.
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Back to Walker Evans and Allie Mae Burroughs sorry but there is a problem here as well. I haven't got time to describe in detail but here are some links and it informs part of why I rant and rage about the 'art world'
The Evans and Agee book:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_Us_Now_Praise_Famous_Men
Those still living revisited :
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/09/19/8272885/index.htm
A quote -
'So your father would talk to you about the book?
"He would."
He was angry about it?
"Yes."
Purely angry about it?
"No doubt. And to be honest with you, I think he had a right to be. I honestly do. You were looking at people that were struggling to put food on the table, you know? It was a simple life. They didn't have anything. Everybody wants something. That's probably the American dream. Everybody wants something. So it kind of left a bad taste in everybody's mouth. Maybe that's hard for a lot of people to understand, but it absolutely did. It made him upset, it really did. They were cast in a light that they couldn't do any better, that they were doomed, ignorant. How would you feel if somebody cast your folks, your parents, or your grandparents in that light? Even though I know they were real poor, no doubt about that, but they weren't ignorant, and they definitely weren't lazy." '
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Rawnsley in the Observer said:
'But compared with fascist parties elsewhere in Europe, the overall performance of the far right here has been pathetic. This is probably down to a combination of their own ineptness and Britain's historic aversion to the extreme right. If Sir Oswald Mosley, a fascist who was scarily charismatic, couldn't convert Britain to black shirtism in the Thirties, his miserable heirs in the BNP are not going to succeed.
This does not mean anyone should be complacent about those who peddle the politics of hate, but it does suggest a right way and a wrong way of tackling them.'
Whilst I agree very largely with his sentiments it would seem that if the major parties cannot expose the true face of the BNP and they were to start hitting circa 10-20% I would anticipate the far right - who "won't be the the BNP" - starting to turn away from the democratic path to violence as they know they will never win a general election.
People like Lewington (tennis ball bombs arrested on the railways), Copeland (gay pub nail bomber), Lecomber (was jailed for three years in the 1980s for plotting to blow up the offices of a left-wing political party and plotted to kill a cabinet minister), the unnamed far right chap up in the North East arrested with large ricin stores and so on.
Should we approach a civil war situation, and I do doubt that we will, there is no doubt who will win - the democrats. However in a nuclear age where there is economic interdependence a loss of confidence in us by our neighbours and allies would have long term consequences. Would the special relationship end? Would our large and complex banks lose global confidence and could we see a second crash for instance? Will London, the business centre of Britain and now described by Griffin as not truly British start to lose business? Will businesses decide not to take the chance of a BNP win and "statist" nationalisation causing a domino collapse of global trade?
There is a need for ruthless exposure of the lies that these people put forward. Saturate the media with adds that tell the truth about their lies.
Not because they actually could win a civil conflict or a general election but because of the extremely serious consequences if they are not stopped.
It may be overkill but nobody likes them anyway except those who have not yet realised that they have been duped by lies.
Also why should citizens have to suffer lies?
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#118 brossen99
"thecookieducker #88
I've been talking about the contents of your link for years but everybody dismisses me as a complete nutter when I talk of the Corporate Multinational Cartel etc."
Yup.
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#114 kingcleticlion
"If only the media took the situation seriously and not some excuse to spin rubbish from the top entry of a researchers mobile."
Some would say the various international bodies like the UN panel on climate change and the 99% of climate change scientists who agree there is climate change due to human impact via CO2 means that there is a defined problem and defined possibilities and defined courses of action.
The media report on that.
That seems eminently sensible.
If you know of other problems then surely your issue is with the other scientists and not the media.
If 99% of scientists agree with your analysis and the media don't report you then you have a beef.
But I don't see that happening as the forum for such a high brow discussion would not be here and this is the audience you are addressing.
Other "experts" on this page are considered by some as "high end" thinkers.
Jaded_Jean believes the Holocaust was made up to put people off "statism" - and then blames "statist" Russians for any violence. The statistical nonsense offered takes no account of the non-existence of reliable statistics for Jews prior to the Nazis.
Hitler was a "peace lover" and National Socialism should replace democracy.
The racial view of politics takes no account of the fact that genetic variation is greater within a race than between races.
What I am driving at is readers should exercise some scepticism on the web.
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#94 barriesingleton
"FURTHER TO MY #92
If 9/11 had not been an 'inside job' these guys would be going ape, and demanding to know why such a superb opportunity was missed!"
The la-la world of the far right.
Its like those that argue the third tower was demolished. It held intelligence officers and it would have taken many months to carry the explosives past these inquiring minds.
"Hmm I wonder why men is carrying high explosives past me every day .... who cares!"
Then the argument becomes experimental explosives - that left no appropriate residue.
Maybe it was the Martians framing al Qaeda.
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#117 jaded_Jean
"How do we ever know that what we say or believe is true or false? How do we ever know who is the origin of an 'idea'? How many people know how to write a true statement?"
Do you mean a "true statement" like somebody who says the Holocaust did not happen and was made up to put people off "statists"? This despite the fact that the statistical "proof" is based on non-existent data and the author won't be showing up at any Nazi war crime trial - like the Djemjanjuk trial - because the proponent is "not an expert witness" and is in fact "agnostic" on the Holocaust.
Nuremburg stands in history and even Griffin - who "is not a Nazi" - referred to Nuremburg when expressing his "black humour" to eminent generals who have served this country well.
Its really actually very pathetic and childish to try and insult people of race with an argument based on no substance.
The far right is characterised by lies and verbage and when you start to get down to the nitty gritty thats what appears.
Griffin for instance would not explain his Holocaust views?
Did he not have your statistics? Have you not advised him of their location?
Its laughable to talk of the far right and the concept of true and false. If somebody of that ilk tells you it is day double check.
They tend to be very adolescent and emotionally unstable in outlook.
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ecolizy (#60) "so have I become wise, or just very very cynical."
Or neither ....
You look up to the Holocaust "agnostic" jaded_jean and like Nick Griffin you don't like the London racial mix.
Rabid?
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thegangofone (various) Please try to grasp that fascism and national socialism are left-wing. Just a little research into their origins will show you that this is true. The right-wing is anarchistic, i.e minimal government, no state. Thatcher was right-wing. The tories are right-wing. The lib-dems are right-wing. New Labour is right-wing.
Under Fascism and National Socialism (and Socialism in One Country in the old USSR and PRC today) the state controls corporations. It does not take a hands off approach (deregulation) with respect to industry/businesses as liberal-democracies do. It does the opposite. The National Socialists in Germany were fighting anarchism - Trotskyism is anarchism. Jewish Anarchists were sent into Russia in 1917 to topple the Tsar to get Russia out of WWI. The Jews they were after were anarchists. Make sure you understand that libertarians are anarchists. Stalin changed Russian communism/anarchism to Socialism in One Country, which was like Old Labour! Read some of the Webb's book. Sidney Webb drafted Clause IV of teh Labour Party. He was a Fabian. Think NHS, British Rail, BA, Royal Mail, Gas Board, Coal Board, state education etc and you get the idea of GOSPLAN. Think of the BoE and you have GOSBANK! Think The Civil Service and you have The Party.
What you keep posting is factually/conceptually wrong. The fact that many other people peddle the same confusion doesn't make it any truer, any more than at one time, large numbers of people holding the geocentric view of the solar system made that true. This is why so many of your posts appear so confused. I am trying to help you see things more accurately. Stop being so abusive.
It is precisely this propaganda myth which sustains self-destructive anarchistic liberal-democracy. Here is one of the consequences. People don't see it because it's a slow, silent, pernicious, process, which feeds off asset-stripping a former rich state. But when that's all gone...what then? See our balance of trade figures.
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thegangofone (#135) Question: As London (etc) becomes more like a Sub-Saharan city like one in S Africa, do you not expect it to go much the same way socio-economically and in terms of crime rate? If not, why not, given the mean IQ differences and our demonstrable inability to raise IQ through education.
Simple and fair question?
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from mimpromptu
Streetphotobeing
I've just been skating to Leonard Cohen's 10 New Songs and managed to spontaneously introduce new movements to my improvisations.
Now, he is a famous person but doesn't strike me as arrogant or anything like that. Like with Oxbridge people it takes all sorts - good, bad/mad & ugly.
Thanks for the new links
mim
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115 The reason why many might not understand
i don't understand what you guys talk about. mainly because it loaded with jargon. any idea that cannot be expressed in plain english isn't an idea but a reference to someone else who explained an idea.
cutting out the middle man makes for plain english and accessible conversation?
true ideas are simple and beautiful.
anything that requires 20 books to explain isn't explaining anything. :)
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Nos 128 - Mim
Good to hear you have developed your work Mim. People here think you think too much of yourself and abilities without having seen you skating or as far as I know having the knowledge to judge your work. As far as I'm concerned they just reveal themselves when they label people as being mentally ill and poison next to a one line sentence quote.
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addendum to #141
The last sentence should read:
one of the most sane, interesting and likable men
mim
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bookhimdano (#139) "i don't understand what you guys talk about. mainly because it loaded with jargon. any idea that cannot be expressed in plain english isn't an idea but a reference to someone else who explained an idea."
[Education Mode On]
OK, here's how it works in life. Specialist terms are created in order that we can better describe and manage parts of reality which are not well managed by common sense and ordinary language. There are specialist languages aka sciences. 'Science' means 'knowing' (as in omniscience - all knowing). Think of chemistry, physics, biology, maths, programming languages. Each have rules of usage and specialist predicates (things which are true or false of something). Education in any of these areas requires one to learn the languages of the science (which means some logic, maths etc) as well as specialist predicates - e.g calcium, boron, valence, molar etc in chemistry. If one is going to see the world in a way different way to the man in the street, one has to learn other languages than common-sense. Newsnight is for educated people, so one can assume that most peole watching will know all this. One can not translate science into the language of common sense as the words don't exist in common language!
I'm trying to say something in these blogs because i think saying it in limited closed communities is not enough in the current climate. That means I assume people won't know it already, but will do some work to find out.
OK?
[Education Mode Off]
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streetphotobeing (#140) Why are you using a public forum for private communications?
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from mimpromptu
Streetphotobeing
I'm again at the Blue Moon
Somebody's playing a game called 'A Fool'
It looks like I'm being enticed
To throw myself into some fool's incapable arms.
To be quite honest I have had enough
Of being tested by the game so utterly daft
Unless, of course, it's deemed to be fit
In order to get to the core ofthe pit.
The pit full of corpses, blackmail & threats
Led by a madman having previosly declared himself dead.
What's in it for him? Money & fame & a big journey across the whole world?
mim
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wappaho & barriesingleton - As you're interested in experiments you might find this stimulating:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19526221.300-mind-tricks-six-ways-to-explore-your-brain.html
This recently revealed government experiment:
Labour threw open Britain's borders to mass immigration to help socially engineer a "truly multicultural" country, a former Government adviser has revealed.
Objectively and scrupulously monitored of course:
He defended the policy, saying mass immigration has "enriched" Britain, and made London a more attractive and cosmopolitan place.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html
coupled with this:
Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be deployed on routine patrol of Britain's streets for the first time."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6407137/Armed-officers-placed-on-routine-foot-patrol-for-first-time.html
made me think of this:
one line of rats was selected for tameness and another selected for aggression.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427281.500-my-little-zebra-the-secrets-of-domestication.html?page=1
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ERROR MESSAGE (#146)
I certainly found it stimulating a few sentences into the New Scientist article!
I have long divided vision into 'looking' and 'seeing' - the former active and the latter passive. I have read nothing on the subject. The centre of the eye referred to in the article seems to be my 'looking' area.
I am 'blessed' with one eye that has no 'looking' facility (called a lazy eye). It has only the ability to 'see' BUT COLOUR PERCEPTION IS IN NO WAY IMPAIRED (although asserted otherwise by new Scientist).
I hope to read the rest, but caution will be my watchword (looword?).
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MULTICULTURE PLOY (#146)
So Tony's twits dun it! But they were too dim to realise the disruptive effect of Manglish in a PC environment.
How does the English RP speaker complain that they can't understand the Manglish-speaking doctor, dentist, social worker, nurse, et al, WITHOUT GIVING OFFENCE, or even braking some discrimination/hate crime law? I am not surprised the Straw man was in on it. Put him in a scanner and lets see what REALLY goes on behind that bland, caring exterior. It's the quiet ones you have to watch.
Oh what a tangled web they weave, when Westminster practice to deceive.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222764/Secret-court-seizes-3-2bn-elderly-mentally-impaired.html
All I can say is that I have turmeric with black pepper in tomato soup every day and hope I don't loose my mind without knowing it. And jaded_jean - calling someone mentally ill and poisonous is not just private on a public forum its offensive.
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AH! BUT IT'S EVEN WORSE THAT THAT (#149)
When my poor brother had his stroke, out of the pink haze of social work came the most bizarre female it has ever been my misfortune to meet. She had an aura of special-ness that could suffocate at ten paces and a self-belief (including a half-day - inferred - course in psychology, that she applied to my brother's assessment with gobsmacking ineptitude) that would have flattened Horatio and had the bridge open in a trice. At one point she was demanding entry to my brother's house to look for financial info (among his chaotic piles). My sister and I were reduced to an exchange of wide-eyed impotent stares, that went 'unread' by the Harpy. God knows what other lives she has impacted upon.
If I begin to describe the outcome, I shall not stop. Britain is a hell for the elderly and a double hell for loving relatives.
STORAGE FACILITY
(The care-home ethos.)
Struck down at your allotted span,
Yet circumventing Nature's plan;
Un-free to breathe that last - last - breath,
You're gathered up - and stored to death.
The mattress' breath exhales, then draws,
You've no dominion over yours.
Certification - always late,
You're safely stored - till signing date.
With quality of mercy strained
Your quality of life quite drained;
Conception: never your idea;
Until reversed - you're stored in here.
You are the spider in the bath
Those un-scaled sides up-scale your wrath!
With no return by succour's thread,
Trapped - driven mad - stored off your head.
Like criminal or kennelled cur,
To food and hygiene you'll defer.
'Mercy' held up - against your cry;
Un-called, unquiet - stored till you die.
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streetphotobeing (#149) "jaded_jean - calling someone mentally ill and poisonous is not just private on a public forum its offensive."
I'm glad you are offended by the truth[#1]. It just goes to show how silly you are! You obviously consider mental illness a slur. In fact, it's a set of behaviours. As is being 'poisonous'. I am not prepared to treat mental illness as normal, nor am I prepared to treat 'poisonous' remarks as innocent. They deserve ASBOs. Nor do I let stupidity go.
Try to learn [#1].
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barriesingleton (#150) For what it's worth, I reckon that advice will be wasted on streetphotobeing and mimpromptu. In their own ways they are both being abused by and are abusing their communities, but don't realise this. When what you are talking about dawns on them, it will all be too late. :-(
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from mimpromptu
Streetphotobeing
It's offenxsive & calamitous but moss people I have dealings with don't belieeve anyway though some let themselves be drawn into it so much that they prefer to back up jj's experimental theory which is totally bonkers.
It feels absolutely fabulous, Streetphotobeing, to have such an openly staunch supporte. Just be careful
that jj doesn't send a psychitric ambulance to your home in Birmingham.
mim
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#154. corrections
it should be 'most people' and 'don't believe it'
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barrie #148
Talking of deception by Westminster, this week MP's on a committee expressed the view that more traffic calming should be introduced into " deprived areas " allegedly to cut the statistically high incidence of child road accident deaths.
Perhaps one good reason that they have installed traffic calming in Asian areas in big towns is to help control any future civil unrest. Of course they have it in " rough " white dominated estates also, where the chattering classes consider a large proportion of the inhabitants are at or near the poverty line.
Humps in the road are an ideal protection against anyone stealing a service vehicle in an attempt to break out through the gates or through riot police lines. Impossible to get any decent speed up if there are humps everywhere. Its only one easy step to ring fencing certain areas of towns and turning them into virtual Warsaw type ghettos. Nobody will be let in or out without a permit, plenty of work for private security guard companies now that much housing is under the control of housing associations. I believe that locked gates have already been installed on some " alley's ".
Its bad enough under New labour, but if politicians continue to dismantle our welfare state at the same rate as over the past few years serious civil unrest is likely to be expected. If Freud gets his way with the Tories it could be only a couple of years before total anarchy breaks out in many deprived areas.
If only Pinocchio's nose had been cut for timber then we could have built " Jerusalem " in England's green and pleasant land. ( not the virtual west bank financial apartheid based segregation of the population we now appear to be heading for )
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from mimpromptu to Streetphotobeing
Just to let you know that my friend who I spoke about yesterday seemed a bit better tonight and apparently managed a couple of sandwiches.
mim
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GETTING THE HUMP (#156)
The hump ethos is certainly illogical; if that is because of a hidden agenda, then that would stack up.
They re-surfaced near me, and applied humps. In a few years the SCOOOPING forces consequent to the humps, made holes. On addressing the re-surface, we were all asked, via letter, to choose: high-humps, low-humps. no-humps.
I gave it a lot of thought, in the light of the previous damage CAUSED BY HUMPS, and advised they should have no humps, but apply other measures to slow DRIVERS (using the saving in road maintenance to fund kit). I had realised that impeding the VEHICLE is the problem. The road should be smooth and straight, with measures added to IMPINGE ON THE DRIVER-CONSCIOUSNESS. These exist, and more are waiting to be devised. When the DRIVER sees no point in trying to defeat the system, then road, vehicle and environment all benefit. By way of example only: the phased lights on the A4 near Slough have generated sane driving for decades. The savings in road maintenance and accidents, against initial cost, might be worth enquiry. I presume radio linked lights - as on roadworks - are now the norm?
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Barrie #158
Vehicle interactive speed warning signs seem to work quite well at controlling traffic speed, but however you attempt to legislate you can never influence the lunatic fringe. You only need to watch Road Wars on " Sky Three " to see that any form of " traffic calming " is no defense against determined reckless drivers. It just makes their foolish actions a hundred times more dangerous than need be, it also makes the road 100 times more potentially dangerous for legal road users.
Perhaps the way forward is to forget about the actual speed as watching a speedo constantly distracts the driver's attention from any potential hazards in the road ahead. Perhaps we need to move towards 2nd gear zones for residential areas, 3rd gear zones on the main busy inner urban routes, 4th gear zones to replace current 50 Mph limits. This method would ensure greater driver control, but is counter to the quasi-religious police driving theory as preached to alleged advanced drivers.
It could also save fuel as an engine would be working nearer to its peak efficiency. My dad has just taken delivery of a new Kia Picanto, which at 119 g/km is theoretically more fuel efficient than my three year old engine identical 123 g/km Picanto. The only difference as far as I can see is that the new Kia is lower geared and therefore the engine is revving higher for a given speed in a given gear. Its quite happy at 30 Mph in 3rd, whereas mine is bordering on labouring although I suspect that mine will return better fuel consumption on " true 70 Mph " motorway work.
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from mimpromptu
25/26 October before going to sleep
I don't think I'll be dittying on any specific subject
Having again had another outrageously abject
Evening especially with 'kings' on the game.
Hope, Streetphotobeing, you will gain your fame
With your beautiful portraits that you like to draw.
Do you do other subjects? I would like to know
Whether you draw scenes like flowers and trees
How about more abstract and imaginary scenes?
I would be willing to take up your case
Bypassing the arts world that you seem to hate.
I do have the power to promote whatever I like
It's only finances that till now Ive lacked
So, it is great fame but well free of charge
Though hopefully that'll change
Quite soon and for good with fees being asked
By my Sponsor's rights.
Please do let me know, Streetphotobeing, what you think about the idea.
Good night
mim
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from mimpromptu
Re: The fight over a Blair presidency
Mim's response to Gavin Hewitt's article as per BBC front page
If I were Angela Merkel I would not only strongly oppose Tony Blair's election for the Presidency of the EU but would put my foot down and reject the idea outright. He ain't neat on basic human rights with regard to peace loving British residents which may go as far as him being challenged by the Law Lords in Parliament Square, London.
It wouldn't be right then to have the President of Europe being dragged through the courts, would it?
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from mimpromptu
I've just learned from one of the Polish websites that the Queen, who doesn't normally express her views publically, has issued a protest against Nick Griffin and the BNP using the images of Churchill and World War II footage, including the Spitfires, in their election propaganda and has asked the members of the Royal Family to do their upmost to fight against this outrageous abuse. /according to the News of the World/
'Sweat, blood and tears', eh? - as an educational device? Bonkers!
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We are rapidly turning the BNP into a tourist souvenir!!! Tourists are going to want to get a taxi, a bus, a spitfire, a mug with the queen and a mug with a BNP thug; the anti-hero to complete the set, the Bill Sykes of postmodern Britain! :)
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from mimpromptu
Ecolizzy
You seem to have been right about the validity of Nick Griffin appearing on Question Time as I do not think that the Queen would have otherwise spoken out against him and some of his outrageous views and image theft for self-promotional 'self-importance'.
mim
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mimpromptu (#165) "against him and some of his outrageous views and image theft for self-promotional 'self-importance'."
He's the leader of a political party. How does a leader of a political party expain the party's policies without risking apearing self-promoting?
You have a problem in this area I suggest. You have the opportunity to learn, but are not doing so. Why is that?
Here's a bit of footage on WWII and its origins. Or are your views more important than say Pat Buchanan's? If so, why?
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from mimpromptu
#166
comm'on sausage
It should be quite clear to you by now that I'm not keen to follow your links.
With regard to Nick Griffin or anybody else for that matter it seems just as absurd as absurd goes to identify oneself with a historical figure like Churchill rather than presenting one"s own views and images. Have yuk ever browsed through Jeremy Paxman's images? If so, have you noticed how many people try to use him and his images for self-promotion? I just wonder how he feels about it all.
And, by the way, have you ever met him or are you in touch with him? I would be most interested to know.
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from mimpromptu
Today, Streetphotobeing, I'm trying to relax
And take things at face value rather than taking to task
Those who are playing on behalf of some others
I'd like to be able to paint pretty flowers.
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"
Syeda Warsi just declared "you can't debate with people who are lying. Well - there goes the credibility of Westminster! 600-odd politicians are clearly wasting their (and our) time. "
Compare them to the BNP! They are National Socialists but not Nazis and revere Hitler ... and Churchill ... and Owen Glendwr. Does Griffin deny the Holocaust? Are they a "modern and progressive party"?
Best of all is the Barnbrook dyslexia and church bells excuse for citing two local murders that never happened.
The BNP - the home of truths and honesty! Ha ha ha ha!
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Mim, in the photo world people offer 'reviews' for a fee. People of note in the photo world looking at/crit your work - pulling on the desire for those who seek fame for a dosh recompense. The 'seek fame' part is the accident within us all waiting to happen. Sadly the recompense usually goes one way. Guess the same could/does happen in the ditty world - to be honest - don't know. I long decided it was better to avoid those who seek such exploit and especially those who are backed by official bodies like 'The Arts Council' which just reinforces the effectiveness of the exploit.
See if you can find someone not asking any monies to give you objective feedback on what ever you wish to do.
Pat Buchanan - laughable
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Don't mention the war: the
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oops! start again.
Don't mention the war: The queen speaks out against the BNP using imagaes of Churchill and spitfires. Well i suppose she has to, her Uncle was a Nazi and her hubby Phil the greek...well, we all know what phils all about. Go1: whats with the bells?
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Michael savage who is banned in the UK for having an opinion was going to debate about freedom of speech and Political correctness via a link with the Cambridge mob. Sadly it was cancelled at the last minute, Brown must have pulled out the thumb screws. Here is savage talking to Geert Wielders the dutch MP who recently got his UK entry ban lifted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNYx63Pfz5U&feature=related
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AUSTIN MITCHELL - 30+ YEARS IN WESTMINSTER - AND IT SHOWS
Mitchell was alongside Martin Bell on 'Daily Politics'. Mitchell's vehement defence of Westminster politicians, was a consummate illustration of the need to clean that place right out. At the general election, it will be a start if we SPOIL PARTY GAMES.
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streetphotobeing (#170) "Pat Buchanan - laughable"
Really? Are you going to tell us why? Whilst you're at it, why not explain to us your views on mental illness, and social-desirability.
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#175 jaded_Jean
"Whilst you're at it, why not explain to us your views on mental illness, and social-desirability"
So you are a socially desirable Holocaust "agnostic" who is mentally stable and sees Hitler as an icon of good policy making?
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#172 cookieducker
The far right seem to have the bloggers ear and so if I mention Barnbrook's use of a combination of dyslexia and church bells as an excuse for citing murders that never happened - as reported on the BBC - the BNP types get it pulled.
Shame on the BBC. Free speech should not include the right to lie or to censor others via lies.
Its like Griffin failing to explain his Holocaust views. There are those on this page who claim to be agnostic on the Holocaust.
Newfazer is "agnostic" and like Griffin his grandfather was in the RAF.
Clearly Newfazer and Griffin have things in common.
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BLAIR: THE MOST SUITABLE HEAD OF EUROPE
Just heard Miliband D (what might the 'D' stand for?) showing his love for Blair to be redolent of Blair's love for Dubya. Help!
The EU is a massive, expensive, corrupt con. How could Tony be suitable?
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from mimpromptu
Thanks for your advice, Streetphotobeing
I've made first steps within the poetry world so hopefully sooner or later may be able to get some kind of feedback. Alain de Botton has already written to me with most encouraging remarks so I suppose it's a good start.
Funny you should mention the images I catch with my cameras as in the last few days I've been bumping into professional image takers but I must say I just love doing it. I suppose I could ask Chris O'Donnell of the Media Society to give me his opinion.
One day, should my life be free of people like jj telling me how to think and how to behave I might consider bringing it all together in a variety of forms like books, films and a website of my own.
But you haven't answered all of my questions regarding your own work, Streetphotobeing.
Till later
mim
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ALL IN THE BRAIN/MIND/HEAD?
thegangofone (various) There's something starting tonight which may test your mettle. See if you notice how many people pay attention to the data vs how many fall for the rhetoric. Even Steve Jones seems a bit too carried away with the latter.
Look up the evidence, and think gene-barrier and how it works (i.e why do different groups look different). Why do different dogs or apples look and taste different, and what doe sit really to say that the latter 'all in the head' ;-)
wo/man - a muddled species.
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from mimpromptu
Where are you jj? What are you up to? Pressing buttons, are you?
Streetphotobeing at least answered some of my questions but you haven't bothered to answer even one of them. I'm still waiting.
P.S.
One question more - How many people have you asked today to obey your commands?
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#102 jaded_Jean
"The key is a psychological verb and the word 'that' (sometimes implicit). One can not point to explicit instances of someone's thinking or belief, which is the problem with these idioms. One resorts to dodgy dramatic projection, i.e creation, or fabrication, under such circumstances."
All this and more from the Holocaust "agnostic" who has not managed to contact Nick Griffin of the BNP with the statistical analysis of why the Holocaust cannot have happened.
It was made up, you claim, to put people off "statist" Nazis and any violence that contributed to camp deaths was in fact done by the Russians. Who were statists in your view and as Stalinists certainly not "anarchists and Trotskyites".
Thats why twenty five million statists died at the hands of their Nazi comrades after Hitler had invaded them.
Hitler was a "peace lover".
The la-la-land of the National Socialists.
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Mim in 1980 I was beguiled by a very beautiful women who is now a classical piano teacher and painter. The line of this persons face made me want to draw as did a drawing by Van Gogh called 'Sorrow' which I viewed in person relentlessly as a teenager. About the same time I came across a book just called 'Photographs' by Lee Friedlander with no text. It was a posh book and I deduced from that that it must be some how important but couldn't work out why from the images - I didn't understand the visual syntax. Part of why I started to make images was to understand that book. I can say not only that I now understand it but worked out a way to progress it but from the angle of Friedlanders friend Gary Winogrand who made two errors in development of technique which I became aware of from doing such work. He made no errors of application or intensity.
The only other drawing Ive done is jewellery design. Mim if anyone goes on about the art world the way I do, well they cant expect to get anywhere and I don't and am in no way bothered about it. Thank you for your kind comment on my drawings .
You may find this interesting if your not already aware of the site - Van Gogh letters:
http://www.webexhibits.org/vangogh/
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from mimpromptu
It's a shame, Streetphotobeing, that you do not draw more.
I have never really studied Van Gogh as such but have seen a few TV programmes about him as well as a film by a French film director, Muurice Pialat, with Jacques Dutronc in the title role. The film deals with the last days of Van Gogh's life which, as is commonly known, he spent in the South of France. It's an interesting film, well acted and all that but not completely faithful to the real story.
I've just had a look at Van Gogh's 'Sorrow' and wonder what kind of grief caused her to be as sad as that. Abuse, I should imagine.
I have also browsed through some of Lee Friedlander's images on Google and I couldn't call them less than exquisite, at least quite a few of them.
Streetphotobeing, you seem to be very knowledgeable, from the Greek times to modernity. What can I say? I'm impressed and, as I have stated in one of my posts to Ecolizzy, in the last few months only I've learned an enormous amount from you. Thank you.
mim
P.S. I'm delighted to see that the ambulance has not been sent for you to teach you a lesson or two!
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mimpromptu (#181) "Where are you jj? What are you up to? Pressing buttons, are you?"
Here I am. Yes, I'm pressing buttons.
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#185
good of you to admit to pressing buttons
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mimpromptu (#186) "good of you to admit to pressing buttons"
It's rather hard not to.
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Steve Jones:
White working-class boys are, in relation to their numbers, much less likely to get into university than are girls of African or Asian background, and as a group are the worst educational achievers of all.
Wappaho
White working-class boys are, in relation to their numbers, much more likely to get into tradesjobs than are girls of African or Asian background, and as a group are the best skilled manual achievers of all.
have not even ceintists got anything sensible to say about the politics of human biology?
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wappaho (#188) Steve Jones is indeed a strange fish. But note, skin colour is a red herring....
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That one can say something worthwhile in a blog such as this and yet be largely ignored, but that exactly the same would be highly valued if said in a NN studio or TV programme with support of edgy graphics and a celebrity mouthpiece, speaks volumes about the awfully narcissistic times we currently 'enjoy'... I suggest.
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Sarah:
...But has it taken this new crash to bring America to its senses?...
I hope it brings the American people back to its sense....
=Dennis Junior=
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