BBC BLOGS - Newsnight: From the web team
« Previous | Main | Next »

Wednesday 29 July 2009

Sarah McDermott | 15:26 UK time, Wednesday, 29 July 2009

From the web team:

Wind turbine company Vestas has failed - for now - in an attempt to force workers staging a sit-in protest at its Isle of Wight factory to leave the building. About 25 workers have been holed up inside the plant for over a week after plans were announced to close the factory. Vestas says the Newport site is being cut as the wind turbine market in the UK is "not big enough". This as many wind farms are struggling to gain planning permission. What does this mean for the green new deal - and the government's strategy for a low carbon economy? Justin Rowlatt reports from Newport.

Tomorrow the Ministry of Defence will publish its latest casualty figures for wounded servicemen. But should there be a more detailed breakdown to accurately reflect the nature of the injuries - or during a war is it not in our national interest to be so transparent? We'll be debating.

President Obama is due to meet the Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates and the policeman who arrested him in his home "over a beer" at the White House tomorrow. We discuss President Obama's handling of the sensitive issue - which has ignited the race debate in the America.

Plus, Oscar-winning director James Cameron's film Avatar promises to take 3-D cinematography to an unrivalled level. Tonight Click Online's Spencer Kelly investigates why 3-D film is having a resurgence. Watch a sneak preview here.

Do join Nick Robinson at 10.30pm on BBC Two.


  • Comment number 1.

    Well I think it was pretty stupid to tell the Taliban we didn't have enough helicopters, but we will be getting some more to move troops. That was pretty fair giving them the notice to swap IEDs for shoulder mounted rocket launchers. That's transparency.

    Am I going to learn anything from your 'green' coverage? No. But I might from Family Guy.

  • Comment number 2.

    we Hoi pollois should rise up

  • Comment number 3.

    "President Barack Obama is due to meet the Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates and the policeman who arrested him in his home "over a beer" at the White House tomorrow. We discuss the President's handling of the
    sensitive issue - which has ignited the race debate in the America."

    Imagine a White academic trying to break down his own door to gain entry, a neighbour calling the police, the police arriving, the academic having a go at the police for inverted snobbery when the police tried to do their duty, and Gordon Brown publicly saying that the police had behaved stupidly. Would that ignite a class debate in the UK?

    Too many people play too many victim cards for advantage these days. Too many people put themselves before the law. Who started that and why?

    What consequences have there been?

  • Comment number 4.

    Wind farms are not new, they first started to appear in the landscape during the mid 1990s often on bleak moorland with no particular tourist potential. Even then the whole thing was a scam, RMC Burnley got the contract to supply the concrete to some up on the nearby moors because Tilcon refused to take more than 5 m/sq, when the maximum six it would spill out going up the hills. The RMC mixers could manage six but their was no profit for anyone doing the job even though it kept us in work at a slack time.

    At that time even I thought that they were a good idea but I had no idea how efficient they were, and it was plain to see that they often stood idle. The truth is out there now and Justin should know full well with his " Ethical Man " investigation into micro wind turbines that their larger brethren are just as useless. Perhaps planning permission is so hard to get because the thinking public know this, they know how increasing wind power to 20% of requirements could cause power cuts.

    Wind farms are an expensive cul de sac as far as meeting our future energy needs through low carbon sources. Far better to use any spare money building a proper Severn ( not those pond things proposed by the eco- fascists ) barrage, likewise Morecambe bay. Similarly nuclear needs massive expansion, thinking people are sick to the teeth of the eco-fascists dictating energy policy.

    Perhaps the brain dead politicians who still promote wind power are scared that the eco-fascists will attack their house and vandalize their car if they don't sing from the eco-fascist hymn sheet. As for green jobs, a 17% private tax on business energy costs to pay for wind farms to stand idle for at least 70% of the time = mass redundancies in what still remains of our manufacturing industry green or otherwise.

    Just to rub salt into the wounds of the Vestas closure empty headed Milliband has just given the company a massive government grant for " research and development ". Anything remotely connected with the term " green " is obviously an investment scam, the only people who gain from wind farm projects are a few lucky individual farmers who actually own their land. Nothing for the wider community despite the fact that income from the tourism they have been forced to rely on could be damaged. The only thing for certain is that their would be no wind farms built but for the massive subsidy to the energy companies, wind farms are false economic growth.

  • Comment number 5.

    Lenny Lipton is the guy responsible for recent 3D work with his RealD Cinema. I think he is quite brilliant.

  • Comment number 6.

    #3; come on Jeannie, you can do better than this; beginning to sound like a GCSE Civics paper under a NSDAP regime.

    Why not just tell us who you think is responsible for all things bad?

    Nothing wrong with Obama being honest about the police acting stupidly; he did not say they were stupid, rather he criticised their behaviour. We've seen it here with Linford Christie being stopped driving a top range BMW at night, the footballer Jermaine Defoe being detained for hours in jail recently on another spurious motoring offence and one of my own erstwhile colleaugues was frequently stopped at night and questioned about the ownership of the vehicle he was driving.

    Compare this with the treatment of Steven Gerrard and his affray charge.

    "Non-whites must be questioned when found driving expensive cars after dark." - sound like Apartheid South Africa?

    No, it's just ingrained attitudes- some people call it racism- I, like Obama, see it more as true ignorance, or people behaving stupidly - and there's a lot of it about.

    We need to think and discuss more about how we minimise stupid behaviour rather than whine about it.

  • Comment number 7.

    gordon had blocked every attempt to bring a feed in tariff into the uk that would allow local micro generation e.g using the millions of acres of factory roof space. even now the energy companies are hastily introducing a new meter into homes that will make mico generation more expensive [as they will have to change the meter again]

    the only wind power they have gone for is massive offshore projects [the most expensive way to do it] and they got the turbines for those from the usa.

    the govt is a basket case.

    war on neocons

    it looks 5000 a year [and rising] are claiming compo of some kind never mind all those who can't prove they are 'ill'. why should we be scared of the numbers? if it is a just war then the public will take it. if it is not...


    i have never heard more senile debate about organic than on the bbc today. is 'good for you the only reason organic came in? so lets go back to stuffing 5 chickens in a shoebox and drenching the land in poisons that soak into the water supply

  • Comment number 8.

    Vestas; can we get some clarity here? Ed Miliband says the factory was for US turbines and they needed to tool up differently for the UK.

    Did Ed give them 6 million squids of our money?

    Are we going to bail them out?

    Will we learn something tonight?

    Who's to blame? Is it "them" again, Jeannie?

  • Comment number 9.

    #2; Hoi!! I've been up since 6am!

  • Comment number 10.

    ....Wind farms are an expensive cul de sac ....

    as practised by the uk.

    but in germany they generate billions in income and hundreds of thousands of jobs. in europe their model is local generation on factory roof and industrial estates. they are expanding that model because they have seen it work.

    more energy is generated in germany through micro generation than the whole uk nuclear industry.

    in the uk every debate is smothered by vested interest who have hoodwinked the politicians. every figure for windfarms we get is linked to 'offshore windfarms' the most expensive and inefficient model you can get. so they jedi mind trick people.

    the energy companies stand to loose billions in cash if micro generation was allowed in the uk in the same way as it is in germany. that is why foreign multinationals pay big money to have a uk billling company. they are allowed stonking profits they could never make in their own countries. its money for old rope. a transfer of wealth from poor to rich.

    the only reason micro generation is uneconomic in the uk is because the system is designed to make it so. in europe it works well and the govts are behind expanding it.

  • Comment number 11.

    Post 10, you claim that wind farms generate billions in income in Germany, I am sorry to disagree but your statement is simply not true.

    You also claim that micro generation is economical and being expanded in europe, where are you getting your information, the figures that I have seen from the EU give the opposing view.

    It is also not true to say that wind farms generate hundreds of thousands of jobs, again your figures are not supported by any official government statistics anywhere in Europe.

    I am fully supportive of green energy and fully support much more green intitivies, however, I am not supportive of posts which do not use factual information to back up someones personal opinions.

  • Comment number 12.

    bookhimdano #10

    I have nothing against expanding micro generation but WE HAVE TO HAVE WIND FARMS to appease the eco-fascists and anyway large corporations can't so easily parasite or embezzle from small scale local projects. You need to get it into your head that all significant financial policy decisions are taken by the stock market parasite celebrities.

    In any case any form of atmospheric generation can not form part of the required base load for our national grid. I believe that Germany has recently experienced severe difficulties at keeping the power on 365, 24/7, perhaps due to over reliance on perhaps particularly solar. Its is said that the UK grid could collapse if we ever reach the target of 20% generated by specifically wind.

  • Comment number 13.


    kashibeyaz (#6) "Why not just tell us who you think is responsible for all things bad?"

    I've tried to explain this to you many times. Here's another attempt using a talk by Trivers, and ask, is a virus 'responsible' or 'to blame' for (A)H1N1? Can you grasp what he's saying, and how 'blame', 'credit' and 'intention' etc never comes into any of this, whilst collective (group) behaviour does?

    When you grasp this, you'll crease being so smug. I promise, and so long as you keep posting smug remarks like the above, you'll just be posting evidence to others that you haven't grasped any of this.

  • Comment number 14.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 15.

    WRT the wind plant factory on protest keep up the good work.
    In power system terms there is only one transformer factory & one generator factory left in the UK.These are not goverment protected & are undergoing cuts. The wind sector if you read the stats is a money spinner they will never be productive money wise.
    The goverment is trying to make up from short commings that were voiced over ten years ago, the UK needs more power & nuclear is the only shore way of going forward but the plans for the equipment are going to foreign companies because the goverment decided that industry/ engineering wasnt the way forward houses& short term businesses like B&Q are the way.
    we are now a nation with so many needs that havent been realised/ embraced & living off the spoon of other countries. Gas lines & power lines from other countries is just another example of major short commings.

  • Comment number 16.


    "Too many people play too many victim cards for advantage these days. Too many people put themselves before the law. Who started that and why?"

    Has Trevour Phillips of the equalities quango (tax payer funded) not recently pulled out his own race card in trying to save his job? apparently he is not cutting the mustard and they are trying to replace him with a white woman? i kid you not modder and i've pulled the often Ali G quote. Hope this post meets with your approval Mr modder. p:s do you get paid for doing this kinda work?

  • Comment number 17.

    Why has the BBC implied that wind turbines have been built on the Isle of Wight for use in the United Kingdom.? This is misleading as only blades have been constructed there for export to the United States.

    Sales are poor in this country as most people living near proposals are opposed to turbines destroying the landscape and do not reduce CO2 emissions.

  • Comment number 18.

    The fact that we invite Vestas in, give it grants to make 'Yankee bound' windmills, and then it provides us nothing but a sprinkling of temporary jobs does not surprise me with this Govt.

    More of a concern, is the comments by the man from the Meteorology unit playing down the gross error in his prophesy of a 'good' Summer this year, when, in Spring it was claimed that many factors had been incorporated along with 'mere chance' being only a small part. What is the point in the worlds biggest computers being upgraded to give us a 15% edge over 50/50 chance?
    Are these same people to be trusted with the key issue of the great Global Warming [oops] Climate Change tax revenue scam?

  • Comment number 19.

    If the existing problems with noise and flicker from Wind turbines were seen to be being firstly accepted, then researched, then addressed and modified so that they no longer cause sleepless nights, and loss of amenity for unfortunate nearby residents.. then maybe people would be more accepting. But whilst people like us have to abandon our home due to the noise just because our house happens to be in the "wrong place" then there will continue to be objections.

  • Comment number 20.

    On the military injuries issue; I've just been watching the brave victim [Simon Brown] being interviewed, who after being shot in the face felt that he was being made to feel partly to blame, and had become some one this Govt was ashamed of. I nearly cried...

    Interestingly a rough figure of 5:1 injured to killed was proffered. Will that tally tomorow with MOD revelations?

    Did anyone notice the 'slip' by an army medic on location in Afganistan to a reporter for BBC's AM news on Radio 4 last week when our casualties were only 15 deaths?
    He blurted out that there were 157 injured. I can only surmise that that represents nearly 11:1.

    Logic tells me that injured troops occur at other times when there are no deaths too, so I'm going to bump the true ratio up to 15:1 or maybe 20:1 or if the US are like they were in Iraq, 30:1 does not seem absurd due to friendly fire... I give my prophesy 65% probability according to my laptop PC ;op

  • Comment number 21.

    Ed Miliband says things, and like other New Labour politicians, he 'thinks that is right'.

    It's all very bizarre, seriously! There's an entire party of people where advancement appears to depend upon a) disengagement from reality and b) an ability to speak fluent Mandelsonian.

    Not that the Conservatives or Lib-Dems are much better. Was it all those drugs in the 60s through 90s?

  • Comment number 22.

    Streetphotobeing, BubblegumTriffid, Celtic Lion
    Just to let you know that after having been in touch with Newsnight via their Investigation Team following the retrospective removal of my rhymed verses recently, they have finally got back to me. So, perhaps, after all, they do take note of what we have to say!

  • Comment number 23.

    Very well done to Nick Robinson for bringing a fresh perspective to perhaps the worlds greatest current affairs programme. I particularly enjoyed the "Mandy" interview. Nick charmed answers from a man who has been left standing as one of England's last political heavy weights and who is very much a force with which to be reckoned- ironic but nevertheless true!

    Nick's painstaking preparation is clearly apparent and I found myself smiling as his "victims" visibly squirmed and sweated when faced with his steely uncompromising journalistic questioning, masked behind the sheeps clothing of his good old fashioned English manners. How refreshing it is to watch an intelligent interviewer who doesn't rely or resort to bullying and barracking his guests.

    Welcome to Newsnight, I look forward to you becoming part of the furniture.

  • Comment number 24.

    Yet another pre scripted well rehearsed alleged live studio debate on wind energy which totally failed to encompass the fundamental questions. Justin Rowlatt suffering selected memory loss on what he discovered playing at Ethical Man, its not just nimby's who object to wind turbines as the propaganda would attempt to portray. However, it is no longer necessary for the eco-fascist to assist to the corporate lawyers to embezzle from the planning system so now they concentrate on coal these days.

  • Comment number 25.

    Ah the best of the evening - perhaps it should be a regular feature - a proper drink while presenting the news! Nick opening his bottle of beer and having a sip this evening. Hope he was allowed to finish it ;o)

  • Comment number 26.

    #18 Markonee1

    In the case of the Millennium Dome. The UK Government had 2 choices:

    1) A global environmental management centre that would have put £50 billion per year into the UK economy. The set up costs covered by major city investors supplying the venture capital. Thus offsetting the liabilities of the global re-insurance industry.


    2) The American proposal, AEG, as an entertainment and casino complex to stage such events as 50 Michale Jackson concerts.

    The Government wisely chose the 2nd option.

    If you have a beer mat, envelop or fag packet to do the sums. £50 billion per year x 8 years equals £400 billion to the UK economy. No recession or credit crunch here then.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 27.


    what has the programme achieved tonight, what is the intention of the show? will it change anything? how will this happen, thru audience reaction, but then if that was considered important the programme makers would interact with this blog, which they dont seem to do,
    sorry to sound negative, but sometimes talking about things may seem cathartic, but if it is meant to be more than that, i would be interested to hear something from those who make this show, what this is, and how this takes place,

    best wishes
    PS I am sometimes a little worried for example when i see the Chief medical officer being grilled 'live' what the point of this is? (he fields the questions well though) surely he should be home resting and preparing for his important work the next day? surely late nights cannot improve his effectiveness? same might apply to anyone running a department? do we honestly want them up with the owls, does appearing on this show honestly justify itself, perhaps interviews need to be recorded.......

  • Comment number 28.


    Ed Miliband's pursuit of windpower as even part of our energy mix is sheer lunacy. Wind power is a complete disaster says Michael J. Trebilcock, Professor of Law and Economics, University of Toronto. Here is a summary of the key points he made in his Toronto Post article dated 8th April 2009.

    1. Denmark, the worlds most wind-intensive nation, with more than 6,000 turbines generating 19% of its electricity, has yet to close a single fossil-fuel plant.

    2. It requires 50% more coal-generated electricity to cover wind powers unpredictability.

    3. Flemming Nissen, the head of development at West Danish generating company ELSAM (one of Denmarks largest energy utilities) tells us that wind turbines do not reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

    4. The German experience is no different. Der Spiegel reports that Germanys CO2 emissions havent been reduced by even a single gram, and additional coal- and gas-fired plants have been constructed to ensure reliable delivery.

    5. Recent academic research shows that wind power may actually increase greenhouse gas emissions in some cases, depending on the carbon-intensity of back-up generation required because of its intermittent character.

    6. Industrial wind power is not a viable economic alternative to other energy conservation options. Take the Danish experience:-

    a. Danish electricity generation costs are the highest in Europe;
    b. Niels Gram of the Danish Federation of Industries says, windmills are a mistake and economically make no sense.
    c. Aase Madsen, the Chair of Energy Policy in the Danish Parliament, calls it a terribly expensive disaster.

    7. In debates over climate change, and in particular subsidies to renewable energy, there are two kinds of green:-

    a. Firstly - the environmental greens who view the problem as so urgent that all measures that may have some impact on greenhouse gas emissions, whatever their cost or their impact on the economy and employment, should be undertaken immediately. (From Ed Milibands comments on Newsnight tonight, he is one of these).

    b. Secondly - the fiscal greens, who, being cool to carbon taxes and cap-and-trade systems that make polluters pay, favour massive public subsidies to themselves for renewable energy projects, whatever the relative impact of such projects on greenhouse gas emissions.

    Both groups have one point of convergence - their support for massive subsidies to renewable energy (particularly wind turbines).


  • Comment number 29.

    Not big enough, we have only recently cottoned onto the idea, are they mad.

  • Comment number 30.

    #22 Mimpropmtu

    Well congratulations for your tenacity and result. Personally I contributed to 2 Nobel Prizes, NN regularly use my work or results of my work, guests quote from my work or don't reveal what they say is my work etc.

    If I contact NN they don't respond or reply, but once got some halfwit rudely abuse me and tell me I am wrong and slam the phone down, without the decency to listen to what I actually said, or request the evidence and documentation to support what they didn't want to hear.

    If I get moderated they either don't bother to tell me why or send me a link to a web page which says Error, so effectively denying the right to reply.

    Personally in my opinion, which JJ tells me I have no right to have because it is not rational, evidence based or empirical, I liked your posts and verses. When I see your name before they are moderated I wait expectantly, like I have just done, for a gossamer fluttering butterfly to alight into the blog.

    You will have to reveal which soap you use to get such a result. Or is it just secret beguiling charms at play?

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 31.

    The iPlayer is only good for a week. But the follow up comments offer an interesting and enduring mix of viewpoints. I think the BBC really needs to address the qualifications of its 'reporters' in what is a very science/engineering-dependent topic (with a fair mix of enviROI economics in the mix - preferably without box-ticking targets and or subsidy-addicted lobbyists skewing decisions). Both to understand the issues and, as important, share them both objectively AND understandably.

  • Comment number 32.

    Well, you see Celtic Lion, it is not only because I have sent Newsnight a couple of new poems which finally may have struck the real cord, but it's also thanks to virtual communication I have access to. On top of that, I met quite a few of the Newsnight Team face to face at the Media Society Annual Dinner the night Jeremy Paxman received the Award. Plus, at times, some of them played a vital role in helping me go through the most challenging ordeals.
    P.S. I am not all that keen on being compared to a butterfly as the species are creatures doomed to very short lives.
    Talking of soap bars, I may have developed some kind of allergy to them - wasn't it the Nazis who made the stuff out of humans?

  • Comment number 33.

    'TOO MUCH DETAIL...' (Gates affair)

    Oh dear....When the anchor's response to a guest critically elucidating the alleged facts of the matter is to cut him off with '..too much detail', one suspects all may not be quite right.

    Incidentally, see #3.

  • Comment number 34.

    33. At 07:52am on 30 Jul 2009, JadedJean wrote:
    'TOO MUCH DETAIL...' (Gates affair)

    'Details, details details'... or...'God is in the details'?

    What we need is more interpretation of events by those with (given?) better access to the full story such that they can enhance the narrative in ways such hat bits get left in, or out, to better let the 'correct' form of 'truth' to emerge.

    As you say... 'unique'.

  • Comment number 35.


    Why tilt at windmills when the moon is constant and the TIDES inexorable?

    So much easier to make the point that this island's tides are at various times, and we have a grid.

    Wind, I suspect, was chosen to fail, like anti-tobacco measures and alcohol tinkering.

    Either we are 'at war' with climate change - hence serious about clean energy, and should give ourselves the tools to finish the job - or we are being led by self-serving, short-termist, politicians, cahoots with vested interests.

    Perish the thought.

  • Comment number 36.

    mimpromptu (#32) "Talking of soap bars, I may have developed some kind of allergy to them - wasn't it the Nazis who made the stuff out of humans?"

    A translation problem in part no doubt. The Germans had humans making things out of stuff in some of their camps. They had this idea that physical work would set them free. That's what socialist worker's parties (here the German national socialist worker's party, the Sovierts trie dsomething similar over in Birobizhan aka 'Siberia') tend to believe. Making soap and lampshades out of people is of course long discredited black-propaganda. The Germans did not eat babies either, although no doubt some anti-socialist people would have naive people believe otherwise. It's good for the debt business. In fact, it's probably good for all sorts of business.

  • Comment number 37.

    Addendum (#36) A reminder in the context of Sin City and its environs...

    Sometimes it just takes nudge of the truth - cf who was the real Mafia in the USA (cf. Murdr Inc.) and who ran Hollywood and the spin industry?

  • Comment number 38.

    #32 Mimpromtu

    In Shogun did not Lady Toda tell Blackthorn (Anjin-san)

    "Our lives are just a butterfly's wing beat in the flight of existence".

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 39.

    Celtic Lion
    It all depends on the context. Some people die in babyhood, some (like Mr Henry Allingham & Mr Harry Patch - honour to them) at 113 & 111 respectively. I had a younger brother once when I was about 3, taken away by a raging at the time viral flu. Relativism, Celtic Lion, relativism.

  • Comment number 40.

    continuation of #40
    The above is in no way reflection on all the Germans alive at the time of the 2nd World War, nor has it anything to do with the German nation these days. They have made, not least the current Chancellor - Mrs Angela Markel, amazing efforts to come to terms with the past and to promote humane relations with other countries, and with Poland in particular.

  • Comment number 41.


    Pass it on. And there really IS a London Bus on the Moon, but it has recently been swapped for a Bendy. And there's lots more stuff I know, but like Tony, I can't tell you; you just have to trust me. Anyway - the Attorney General will back me.

    Keep banging the rocks together and remember:


  • Comment number 42.

    the uk model of wind generation [big and in farms on land and sea] is part the problem. That is not the model used for micro generation abroad.

    if planning permission was necessary for pylons then the uk would never have had electricity. Any council not wanting windmills should have a gas/coal power station instead. either one or the other.

    ie each council should have an obligation to provide electricity generation.

    the model being used abroad is that of using factory roof space and business parks. not big white spinning farms.

  • Comment number 43.


    The enquiry will be transparent, with Tony as a witness.

    So that's alright then.

  • Comment number 44.


    Newsnight might look at some of the past blogs and consider why they missed a few stories given to them on a plate?

    best wishes

  • Comment number 45.

    There's been quite a lot of 'talk' about 'organ traffic' in the Middle East, inevitably given the Arab-Israeli conflict. It's worth bearing this in mind when thinking about similar tales told during WWII (and afterwards). There appears to be a library of standard horror stories which are rolled out whenever there are conflicts. The point here is to note how these stories are used.

  • Comment number 46.

    I note there is a delay on publishing my blog though quite innocuous, nothing in it against the 'rules.
    just trying to make the point that it isn't quite cricket to invite people to your party and then not talk to them!

    best wishes

  • Comment number 47.

    'The "huge job" of going through vast amounts of material and evidence means the Iraq inquiry could continue into 2011 says chairman Sir John Chilcot.'

    Given the quite tense state of affairs with regard to public confidence is there any reason why a more urgent interim judgement could not be reached on the process by which the Attorney General suddenly decided that the War was legal - and ignored all of the other authorities who said it was not?

    Is that not the core of the issue?

    The vast amounts of information are a smokescreen.

  • Comment number 48.

    Nos 41

    Thank you for that Barrie. I was in desperate need of a laugh, which was just achieved.

  • Comment number 49.

    Hi again

    just thought, perhaps someone could set up a facebook site for Newsnight bloggers so that we could conspire on and off the Newsnight blog?

    best wishes

  • Comment number 50.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 51.

    #35 barriesingleton

    "Either we are 'at war' with climate change - hence serious about clean energy, and should give ourselves the tools to finish the job - or we are being led by self-serving, short-termist, politicians, cahoots with vested interests."

    In previous weeks the far right posters on this page have said climate change was a con.

    You yourself had "some R&D" experience and felt that the "scientists could have it wrong".

    Meanwhile that London Assembly geezer has yet to explain three murders local to him - that never happened.

  • Comment number 52.

    #36 Jaded_Jean

    "Making soap and lampshades out of people is of course long discredited black-propaganda. "

    Rubbish there were photographs of furniture made from human body parts that can be seen on one of the current documentaries being shown with testimony from Bormans son.

    No Holocaust "agnostic" is going to take their "evidence" to the trial of alleged Nazi war criminal Djemjanjuk - just as they have not to any other trail.

    According to you too many Jews survived to make it credible and then you have perviously alleged it was the Soviets - who were more socialist than the National Socialists.

    The Nuremburg trails are not discredited and there is evidence from many thousands of people over the years - including Nazis trying to come to terms with their past.

    There is never any substance to your "explications" is there?

  • Comment number 53.

    # 44 Bubblegun trifid

    agreed but a blog is not the first number on a researchers mobile speed dial.

  • Comment number 54.

    #40 mimpromptu

    I utterly agree with those sentiments.

  • Comment number 55.

    #30 kingcelticlion

    "NN regularly use my work or results of my work, guests quote from my work or don't reveal what they say is my work"

    How can somebody NOT reveal what they SAY is your work?

    Stiglitz is often on the programme, he has a Nobel, and he seems content to let his work and reputation do the talking for him.

  • Comment number 56.

    #12 brossen99

    "I have nothing against expanding micro generation but WE HAVE TO HAVE WIND FARMS to appease the eco-fascists and anyway large corporations can't so easily parasite or embezzle from small scale local projects."

    Do you ever construct a phrase without words like parasite and fascist?

    If I understand it you are another BNP poster so I assume that the "parasites" are Jews?

    Maybe we have to have the wind farms because thousands of scientists from many racial backgrounds have over the course of decades of research agreed the C02 emissions caused by humanity are causing climate change.

    Maybe there are those who would try to create a conspiracy out of anything, like 9/11, to try and undermine confidence in authority and the democratic process.

  • Comment number 57.

    41. At 11:34am on 30 Jul 2009, barriesingleton wrote:

    Sorry, I just had to see that in print again, in case these guys don't oblige:

  • Comment number 58.

    Lots of good posts

    Book Him thanks for the Apocalypse Now Helicopters afew days ago.

    They have seemed to miss the point on organic. Why drench the land with poisons in some energy intensive agro industry. Surely there is now surplus labour to employ people in a gainful, enjoyable, healthy way. And yes I have worked on the land the last two summers.

  • Comment number 59.

    #16 thecookieducker

    "Has Trevour Phillips of the equalities quango (tax payer funded) not recently pulled out his own race card in trying to save his job?"

    You think at the equalities commission they would be likely to show prejudice?

    Could this be the BNP posters trying to slant the news on a racial basis?

    Yes it could!

  • Comment number 60.

    #49 Bubblegum triffid

    There is already a place

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 61.

    thegangofone (#52) "Rubbish there were photographs of furniture made from human body parts that can be seen on one of the current documentaries being shown with testimony from Bormans son."

    Oh dear, you really don't get it do you? That's how this nonsense that you believe is peddled. There's no big regulator out there forcing 'documentary' makers to tell the truth ou know.

    All these silly stories have been discredited. You should look into it.

  • Comment number 62.

    I have been disappointed with the quality of Newsnight this week and think Nick Robinson has been poor - I think he said the pound had gone down by 55 cents when it should have been .55 cents - quite a difference. His interviewing technique has been very clumsy and when people start to say something interesting, he seems to just cut them off. Come back soon Paxman, Wark etc - it is clear that your job is not so simple as you make it seem.

    Especially this week, Channel 4 news seems to have blown Newsnight out of the water. Interesting that Channel 4 News had a tribute to the great jazz composer, George Russell. Could Newsnight Review find time to do the same?

  • Comment number 63.


    re the Iraq enquiry, whether or not this is a genuine attempt to find the truth, rather than hide it, sooner or later the light of truth does reveal the deepest secret. and I'm pretty sure the are some pretty deep secrets around this issue. O for some investigative journalism by someone with a 'nose' for this. The truth is 'known' to some, and I'm sure they will further the national interest by using back channels if necessary to put the villains in this story into the spotlight, as I would expect from anyone who loved their country, and the decent values that we are meant to live by,

    best wishes

  • Comment number 64.

    #55 Go1

    I have a revulsion to work that was given freely in order to save lives and as a contribution to trying to make a better future for this planet.

    Being twisted and appropriated to support the spot light chasing careers of politicians and celebrities. The misguided and dishonest misinterpretation of the work then used to justify solutions and strategies which will result in misery and death to many.

    You may think it acceptable that the media and political system is deceiving you. You appear to like quoting the 'climate change card'.

    Do you not think if that was important, that the person who originally wrote the work the 'political celebrities' use, is the person the questions are asked. have you not heard the phrase, speak to the engineer not the oily rag.

    Planetary ecological life support systems are on the point of catastophic collapse and the media and the audience seem content with NN allowing the political elite to do no more than 'tilt at windmills'.

    The same people who allowed something as banally simple as an economic system to collapse, you now still trust to stop planetary ecological systems crash.

    I am truly and sincerely interested to know and understand why you are content to allow Newsnight to present something which amounts to nothing more than light entertainment, rather than deal with the reality of our situation.

    If you don't want to take the time to even understand the challenge we face as a planet, please stop criticising those who do understand the situation are are trying to stop you and everyone else from dying. Trying to prevent the extinction of all higher life for millions of years into the future.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 65.

    thegangofone (#59) Activists in favour of the free-market spread horror stories about what socialist countries allegedly do (which included 1930s-45 Germany) in order to discourage their domestic electorate from voting for the opposition, and socialists (evil commies etc) abroad spread similar stories about the evil doings of capitalists.

    It's largely propaganda for unthinking people, who like kids, are easily scared. These days it's become a bit more sophisticated than it used to be.

    Do you expect to be taken seriously? Maybe you're targetting the wrong demographic here?

  • Comment number 66.

    GO1 #56

    Once again it would appear that you have got your ten bob fat cat Corporate Nazi blinkers on, read ROBINOVITCH #28 to find out the simple truth about wind farms.

    Once again its a case of " If you don't agree with me you are BNP " and as for being racist I have nothing against " The Jews " In fact I have got ethnic minority relations who I get on with really well. Likewise the Pakistani's on the checkout at the supermarket next to a mosque which I frequent, I am always civil and give them a smile.

    Race has nothing to do with the internationalist Corporate Nazi stock market parasite celebrities who seek to dictate policy throughout the world using their puppet politicians and anarchist Trotskyite idiots like yourself.

  • Comment number 67.


    your silence is deafening !

    what about some feedback on our posts, if you dont read them, why not tell us !

    the future is us ! the masses not the few !

    all the best,
    I need a rest,

  • Comment number 68.

    Two incidences of the British having to support people from around the world.

    The first one is a job cut here, and the work going to India... If the people sacked are no longer civil servants, will the rest of us be supporting them and their families, so a double whammy for us.

    The second is an article in the Independent, complaining that we are not giving enough money to asylum seekers, or put another way economic migrants...

    Does the Independent prefer the money to be taken from our schools, NHS or pensioners, I'm not quite sure what they expect from us and our failing economy.

    What happens when there is no work for us Brits anymore, all the work has been sent abroad, and we are paying for the education, housing and healthcare for every economic migrant that comes here. Can we actually support all these people? And the question no politician will answer, how many is too many for these small isles?

  • Comment number 69.

    Hi, had a rest, back again
    something for 'Newsnight investigations',
    is the Space cheese returns to Earth story true?
    was a health and safety assessment made before launch?
    missed my home anyhow, when it came back at supersonic speed,

    best wishes,
    from 'concerned' somewhere in the Home Counties (maybe)

  • Comment number 70.

    #67 bubbleumTriffid: feedback from NN on posts.

    Don't think it likely - or desirable. Some get irritated enough when other posters contradict and even insult, while others set out to achieve this. It's good to have our fixed notions challenged and to attempt to resolve differences through dialogue, though some seem to rely only on repetition. It's annoying to get the occasional post suppressed by NN on grounds of moderation, but best not to give scope for our comments to be rejected or trumped by NN staffers.

    Still, it would be encouraging if the topics selected for NN discussion (or review) reflected more closely those to which we contribute most comments, and occasionally request. I once suggested that NN should follow BBC 'Have Your Say' online, in which one can tick an 'Agree' box on all comments and see how many 'votes' each comment receives. However, this seems to have provided BBC with scope for influence(distortion?) as they chose which topics to offer for 'Have Your Say'; by holding back some comments 'awaiting moderator'; and for early publication of comments that BBC support. Of course, BBC deny such 'manipulation', but if there is one thing that us bloggers seem to agree on - it is that we, the GBP are being used - by corporate Nazis, by politicians, big businesses, banks - and probably by BBC.

  • Comment number 71.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 72.

    ecolizzy (#68) "What happens when there is no work for us Brits anymore, all the work has been sent abroad, and we are paying for the education, housing and healthcare for every economic migrant that comes here. Can we actually support all these people? And the question no politician will answer, how many is too many for these small isles?"

    Seems a pretty sure way to wreck the country doesn't it?

  • Comment number 73.

    By the way Newsnight on the wind turbines last night I thought Ed Miliband said at one point that the turbines were for the U.S. - whilst the company said it was closing as the UK market was not strong enough.

    Given the zillions we have spent on banks could we not have nationalised the company to try and push ahead with the flight from carbon and to increase energy security ahead of the projected 2020 carbon shortfall?

  • Comment number 74.

    #66 Brossen99

    The thing is most Muslims I have met don't use the phrase "anarchistic Trotskyite" - whereas the BNP supporters do. I did think that you had previously proclaimed your support for the BNP?

    But I duly note that you say you are a Muslim.

    By the way I vote Lib Dem and reject the whole BNP notion that everybody who is not BNP is an anarchist and Trotskyite.

    By the way as for #28 it says nothing about the need to replace carbon energy and the fact that this is an emerging technology.

  • Comment number 75.

    #61 Jaded_Jean

    "All these silly stories have been discredited. You should look into it."

    Why look into ridiculous assertions that don't bare the slightest scrutiny?

    As I have said with regard to the forthcoming alleged Nazi war criminal Djemjanjuk's trial - where will all of the far right internet "experts" be with their "evidence"?

    Peddling lies on the internet because they know they cannot stand the scrutiny that would expose them in a court.

    Djemjanjuks lawyers will be made aware of all of this "evidence" that the Holocaust did not happen - though you yourself are "agnostic"?

  • Comment number 76.

    #64 Kingcelticlion

    If you are saying your work has been plagiarised then most academic circles would jump all over the people who had tried to rip off the academic community.

    There would be even greater attention to Nobel prize winners - who would have risked their whole reputations by such an act. Their work gets checked very carefully as part of the Nobel process I believe.

    So why not approach the relevant Journals or academic body?

    Personally I am not holding my breath.

  • Comment number 77.

    thegangofone (#75) "Why look into ridiculous assertions that don't bare the slightest scrutiny?"

    If you don't look into it, how on earth do you know that it doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny? Hmm?

  • Comment number 78.

    REVEALED TRUTH (#57 link & #63)

    "Crime and the causes of crime" intoned 'Great Tone'. He could have been referring to the THREE towers that all 'collapsed' in a crime against probability laws; that 'led' to the criminal Iraq debacle.

    We may never get the truth of Tony's War (gifted by IDS) but we most certainly WILL know all of the THREE towers deception, and it MIGHT just feed into the truth of Tony's War!

    We live in interesting times.

  • Comment number 79.

    thegangofone (#76) "Personally I am not holding my breath."

    Oh...go on....

  • Comment number 80.

    GO1 # various

    Are you dyslexic or something or just so far up your own backside that you can't be bothered to take the time to read anything properly, I never said I was Muslim or BNP but your favourite Lib-Demmics are lower in my estimation than any immigrant.

    We once had the misfortune of having a Lib-Dem local ( RVBC ) councilor in our village. The empty headed idiot got the speed limit cut from 60 to 40 on the main road into the village. It turned 75% of the local population into instant theoretical criminals, even the buses still do 50 around the bend it was intended to make " safer ". At the last main RVBC elections he stood of a platform of building a new roundabout at the junction in the centre of our village. I wrote a letter into the local paper pointing out that the traffic pollution in our village centre would be doubled. Despite being a sitting councilor and big in the local church he was annihilated by a new unknown " Tory " candidate opposed to the plan.

    The Lib-Dem's lost control of RVBC at said elections but they were already a long way down the road to introducing BIN TAX having spent 30k on microchips for the new recycling bins. Of course any properly scientifically advised council would have gone for the generating electricity from incineration route. Again eco-fascist propaganda held sway and now many outlying rural residents face the inconvenience of taking their daily rubbish up to half a mile by car to where the council will collect the wheelie bins. The once picturesque valley now has its roadsides cluttered with banks of recycling bins.

    At a recent by-election caused by the mysterious resignation of a very long standing senior Lib-Dem councilor in a village in the south of the valley, the Tories fought on NO BIN TAX and won three to one. The said village is a mixture of affordable housing but with some very expensive new build recently, a broad cross-section of the income scale.

    The people of the Ribble Valley know what a Lid-Dem controlled council represents and have told them where they can go and stick it.


BBC © 2014 The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.