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Tuesday 9 June 2009

Sarah McDermott | 16:15 UK time, Tuesday, 9 June 2009

From the web team:

Today, Gordon Brown's reshuffled cabinet met for the first time after a week of speculation about his future as prime minister. Mr Brown seems to have survived a series of plots to oust him, despite the Labour party's disastrous 15% vote share in the European elections, having been applauded at a Parliamentary Labour Party meeting last night. In the end the consensus is that it was Mr Brown's former leadership rival Peter Mandelson who saved his political skin, urging MPs not to back calls for Mr Brown's resignation. Lord Mandelson now has a job title to rival the Grand Pooh-Bah, but has he, like the Mikado character, become Lord High Everything Else - do we in reality now have a Mandelson-controlled government? And if he orchestrated the shoring up of Gordon Brown's position, what role will he have in the project - supposedly now underway - to renew and re-shape government policy?

We also have a film on the high stakes in the pipeline "war" between Russia and the European Union over gas supplies, a competition being described as a new "Great Game".

Plus, the countdown to the millionth English-language word, which an online language tracker say will be created at precisely 10.22BST on Wednesday. We will debate the contenders for the new word and the validity of the claim that the millionth word is about to appear. And of course we want to hear your favourite neologisms too - click here to leave your ideas.

Join Jeremy for all that at 10.30pm on BBC Two.


  • Comment number 1.

    I had initially rather reacted to the Lording it bit by deciding that Mr. or Peter M would do.

    Now I rather think it might be fun, and effective, if everyone, and especially the media, refer to Pooh-Bah's full set at every opportunity.

    For a start, any twitters about him would never get beyond half his handle.

    It might have a sobering effect.

    And all the more so for using no more than their own words, deeds and hubris, unadorned.

    Recent events have pretty much pre-written any future party political from any party that is in competition with Labour.

    I seek representation in Parliament, not the installation of whipped-into-shape ciphers who seem to have the odd notion they are there to 'rule'. And obsess on trivia like the BNP at the expense of bigger debates on immigration and/or the EU. It's not like they are even being very effective in their core mission of seeking out and destroying those they don't fancy, even when they are rather unattractive. The only ones they can get rid of seem to be such as Ms. Kennedy... from the home team. Way to go!

    That Dear Leader has 'triumphed' again in some eyes, thanks to some odd, sycophantic internal popularity contest against the wishes of 85% of the electorate and the clear interests of the country, is something I will make those who made selfish, careerist choices NOW suffer for WHEN I eventually get my real chance at the next ballot.

  • Comment number 2.

    "In the end the consensus is that it was Mr Brown's former leadership rival Peter Mandelson who saved his political skin, urging MPs not to back calls for Mr Brown's resignation.

    Lord Mandelson now has a job title to rival the Grand Pooh-Bah, but has he, like the Mikado character, become Lord High Everything Else - do we in reality now have a Mandelson-controlled government?"

    Does the PLP not appreciate that it's the ever more frequent appearances of unelected Lord [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] Mandelson upon our screens coupled with the New Left chutzpah which pours forth from the lips of Miliband D. which makes much of the country loathe New Labour? (well, that and the Credit Crunch, the ruining of HE, the dysgenic fertility, the Iraq War (no we have not forgotten) the Oligarchs...)

  • Comment number 3.

    so the international socialists throw eggs at the national socialists? so they say they are against racism but its clear they are also against rule of law?

    the fact police just stood on the other side of the road and watched with folded arms can only be interpreted as a political statement? sort of zimbabwe style mob rule is ok?

    regardless of what one thinks of anyone's views the rule of law must stand for all without fear or favour?

    i'm not sure of which i'm more ashamed. To be part of a society that elects BNP or one that doesn't stand up for rule of law for all.

  • Comment number 4.

    It may well have been the unelected, unelevated to the peerage, twice removed from the Commons, pretender to the top job that saved the PM from his rebel members, but might not the 'noble lord' have been one of the major factors why 85% of the voting public rejected a party whose PM is cramming his cabinet full of unelected, self-seekers who are out of step and don't share the same moral compass of many of us?

  • Comment number 5.


    An illustration of why we are in the mess we are. Sick him journos. Go get that Myners chap too over Lloyds TSB.

  • Comment number 6.

    From the top deck. No 3. Tuesday, 9 June 2009

    Is Democracy best served by the throwing of eggs if you dont approve of the product and outcome of the democratic process?

    Discuss ............ ( Assuming that we are a Democracy, that is! Or maybe someone will tell us that we cant, in which case ..... should we throw eggs? )

  • Comment number 7.

    I suppose that I am in danger of getting a ideological lecture from thegangofone but what no mention of the antics with the BNP outside parliament today. It would appear that the Corporate Nazi establishment is desperate to stop the BNP putting its ideas over via the media to the electorate. 80 UAF thugs, sponsored by at least the main three political parties and the unions, the Zimbabwe analogy springs to mind.

    It is interesting to note that BBC news channel which originally provided fair coverage of the incident allowing Nick Griffin to respond, but subsequently cut almost everything he had to say but retained a quote from the UAF alleged ring leader. It looks like everything what Griffin had to say about the incident had all been hushed up by the time most people were likely to be home from work.

    It would appear that the BNP is far more radical than the simple racist leaning anti immigration party the Corporate Nazi establishment attempt to portray. Perhaps in the interest of fairness Paxo should invite him onto Newsnight for a proper grilling on a broad range of BNP policies, not just the alleged " Nazi " connection.

  • Comment number 8.

    Newsnight Exclusive

    Two MPs have been recorded discussing Gordon Brown's leadership and MPs expenses. The transcript is available.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 9.

  • Comment number 10.

    From the top deck. No 4. Tuesday, 9 June 2009

    The millionth word .... How about a new maxim?

    I am not Spartacus!

    Having just been reading the BBCs PM blog about the appropriate use of oblate food products aka eggs......

    I am not a supporter, they shouldnt be allowed, I didnt agree with, I did not vote for but ......

    Which, to me, validates the I am not Spartacus! concept.

    Had people exercised their democratic right to vote, we would not have 2 BNP MEPs!

  • Comment number 11.

    JadedJean #5

    I can't understand why the television viewing public think that Alan Sugar is so wonderful, perhaps they are just suffering form a bad memory. Alan Sugar made his name and money selling " allegedly cheap " nasty consumer electronics like radio cassette players for instance. They were complete rubbish when compared to other established products on the market, and you were lucky if they lasted more than a couple of years.

    We still daily use the radio bit of a late 1970s Sony radio cassette, works almost perfectly, the tape deck is US but that's probably down to my elderly parents being a bit ham-fisted rather than design. If you work out the cost over a full lifespan Amstrad stuff works out really expensive, the trouble is the existing manufacturers had to reduce quality to compete, so the consumer lost out as a result overall.

    I try to avoid Sugar on TV but flicking though channels I did catch a feature where he was arguing with his son about an new electronic product. This time it was electronic advertising boards for shops etc, his son wanted a stronger job but Alan said it was only intended to last five years. Hardly good for our environment and what lesson does it portray to new emerging companies wishing to export.

    Easy to make cheap junk and use sly salesmen but what about the sustainability of the market in ten years time. Needless to say Amstrad consumer electronic are history, all Allan's ill gotten gains are in property these days, lets hope that market implodes in the near future.

  • Comment number 12.

    #7; "alleged Nazi connection"; nothing alleged about it. Just as Adolf Hitler ranted on about some specious Aryan race which only the Nazis belonged to, so the BNP froth and slaver about "indigenous Britons" or "indigenous Caucasians",races which only they belong to.

    Just as Adolf Hitler considered options such as sending gypsies, homosexuals and Jews to Madagascar forcibly, so the BNP gibber amongst themselves about forced repatriation of "Africans and Poles", whilst stating publicly they would merely market more aggressively, "assisted return".
    Just as the Nazi regime was one of incompetent government, but ruthlessly efficient in its hunting of dissidents, so assaults of a racial nature increase wherever the BNP's influence holds sway.

    Just as the Gene Genie and its ragtag crew of acolytes on this blog claim to be rational, so did Mengele.

    I do not understand the "fear" that people talk of when they say it is fear that makes them vote for the BNP?

    What are they afraid of?

  • Comment number 13.

    I am it really is me, not Gordon

  • Comment number 14.

    So lets see...An unelected PM:who only got his sticky hands on the job by leading a coup within his own party against the democratically elected previous incumbent and who now clings on to it only because of : the machiavellian machinations of an unelected political operator twice previously forced from office in disgrace, the inaction of a spineless cabinet some of whom have been actually caught with their hands in the till, and the timidity of a deeply unpopular political party whose MPs are terrified of facing the will of the people, is now proposing constitutional reform. Is this some sort of sick joke ?

  • Comment number 15.

    Brossen99 (#11) "I can't understand why the television viewing public think that Alan Sugar is so wonderful, perhaps they are just suffering form a bad memory. Alan Sugar made his name and money selling " allegedly cheap " nasty consumer electronics like radio cassette players for instance. They were complete rubbish when compared to other established products on the market, and you were lucky if they lasted more than a couple of years."

    It's just theatrics. The Amstrad PCs/hard disks were a disaster too, and it cost him. The Apprentice is subversive. Women seem to love it for all the 'wrong' reasons. The odd aggression is very Jewish. People should look closely into the prevalence of NCAH (CYP21 polymorphism on C6P21) amongst the Ashkenazim (1/3 are heterozygous and 1/27 homozygous - it's autosomal recessive), the odd stress reactions which go with this, and other characteristics like shorter stature in males + mild cognitive feminization (reversed for females). It may be significant. See F1 too (also Obama's CoS).

  • Comment number 16.

    kashibeyaza #12

    You sound like you have a vested interest against the BNP but do you support what the Corporate Nazi's are up to at present. For instance, employment agencies taking individuals of all races " Private Political Prisoner " condemned to a life on state benefits. Now the Corporate Nazi's have plans to make anyone out of work for more than a year forced to do potential hard labour as a virtual slave. No chance of a proper job unless you are A1 fit and the prospect of being worked into your grave if you are not A1.

    I believe that the UK has recently signed up to some UN declaration of human rights or something but opted out of the measures on benefits and other vital provisions.

  • Comment number 17.

    #11 Brossen 99

    Remember Sugar chose as an apprentice the one who made the rubbish disgusting chocolates. Because the box, the marketing, the margins were better. He did not choose the one who made the quality chocolates.

    Sugar only goes on about profit, margins etc etc.

    He doesn't do quality, integrity, durability etc.

    The product is meaningless to him. He doesn't do depth, soul or spirit.

    Sugar and The Apprentice represent many of the things that are wrong with the world today. If Brown wants his help, may the lord have mercy on all our souls.

    Sugar says his appointment isn't political. Of course it is, we are being so conditioned that tat, business above all else, profit, endless consumption is the norm, we have lost sight that there are other values we could consider for the benefit of society and the management of this planet.

    And another thing. Did you notice that even though there were only two in the final and both contestants went to the same meeting. The BBC sent two people carriers with two drivers.

    BBC don't you ever deem to lecture me on climate change ever again you hypocrites. Didn't make much business sense either. One of us has had to pay a licence fee for a totally unrequired people carrier. BBC you just don't get it do you.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 18.

    #15; "See F1 too"; yes, it's uncovered at last - the global Grand Prix Ashkenazim Conspiracy; our undying thanks to Gene Genie for its consistent clarity of exposition; keep up the good work.

  • Comment number 19.

    #16; whatever it is you're on, you're taking too much.

  • Comment number 20.

    #14; now we're getting somewhere; "the will of the people", aka narodnaya volya; anarchy in the UK?

  • Comment number 21.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 22.


    Check the news and the description of Gordon Ramsey.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 23.

    #17; A bit too serious; nobody thinks AMS a credible operator other than Gordi; "The Apprentice" is an "entertainment" so don't draw too many conclusions from it; remember Coronation Street.

    Second thoughts; even Gordi doesn't find Siwawan credible; but he thinks the "little people" do, hence his grab for popularity by lording him.

  • Comment number 24.

    Brossen99 (#16) "You sound like you have a vested interest against the BNP.."

    Danny Finkelstein was spitting feathers about the BNP seats on election night too. This has got to be something to do with the fear that more airtime may dispell more mythology, as the BNP is prima facie no serious threat, except I suspect to the affirmative action which Jews as a minority group have enjoyed for many decades perhaps? That and our economic anarchism? What is remarkable is the vituperative behaviour which is out of proportion to the BNP's publicly stated policies. It reminds one of the disproportionate response we saw meted out to Palestinians over Xmas (in violence not words) by Israel.

    Isn't it remarkable? Is it the tacit support given by the UK and USA to Israeli which these outbursts are desperate to shore up? is it just classic bully behaviour, i.e. using others to hide behind? or is it just an hysterical extreme stress response i.e. one disproportionate to the stimulus? Hell hath no fury etc...?

  • Comment number 25.

    kashibeyaz (#18) "See F1 too"; yes, it's uncovered at last - the global Grand Prix Ashkenazim Conspiracy; our undying thanks to Gene Genie for its consistent clarity of exposition; keep up the good work."

    Glad you're learning. But nothing to do with conspiracy, it's just gene expression. It's a point about height. See also 'Scooter' Libby, etc. Is it an estrogenization effect from NCAH and CYP21 polymorphism on C6P21 (MHC area) and the adrenal-pituitary-LC axis? Does the sex-steroid shunt feminize their brains/behaviour too (i.e. higher verbal than spatial)? For the stress response see Charmandari et al 2004. Are their males a bit more out of touch with reality and more narcissistic, like gentile females?

  • Comment number 26.

    "it is thought to be democratic for the offices to be assigned by lot, for them to be elected is oligarchic," (Aristotle)

    The idea that electing the Upper House will do anything other than create more jobs for the politicians is absolutely rediculous. If voting changed anything they would make it illegal.

    What we really need is an upper house where the people are chosen for their character by ordinary people and not for their party politcal coat. So that means we need an interview panel that can select individuals and that interview panel must be a panel of ordinary people.

    That way we keep the skills, experience and apolitical view of the present house and make it accountable to ordinary people without the corrupt influence of party political HQs.

    And that would allow us to get rid of the Bishops, and the hereditaries (although some might get reappointed) and even if the panel were paid an MPs salary for a few weeks work, it would still cost a fraction of the £70million an election costs.

  • Comment number 27.

    I've just seen the Newsnight interview with the guy who organised the UAF protest today, and if you think Griffin is a fascist you should really be worried about this chap. He thinks it alright to deny a legitimately elected party freedom of speech by physically attacking them and dismissed the concerns of almost one million voters out of hand, basically saying they were wrong and didn't matter anyway. Who's the fascist now?

  • Comment number 28.

    I have just watched the first part of Newsnight, and was totally shocked. It was no more than an internal Labour Party discussion on how best to get out of the Party's current mess / outflank the Tories. There was no attempt at any balance, and no place for any other party to contribute. Remember this is a party that polled 23% in the local elections and 15% in the European elections. And yet it was was as though no other party existed, leave alone had anything to say.

    Does balance not mean anything to the BBC anymore? Are you simply a wing of the Labour political machine? I have no doubt that No 10 would be extremely proud of you.

    I fear I have ceased to regard the BBC as being objective. I know that I will always get the government line in one form or another, with very little questioning. Most people would interpret Gordon Brown's latest ideas on electoral reform as a desperate and cynical attempt to move away from the present agenda, and present himself as a decisive leader. Yet not once was this suggested, or debated.

    Just think for a moment how the programme would have handled a Tory or Lib Dem announcement of a new policy initiative. Is there the slightest chance that no Government spokesperson have been allowed to present a critique - none whatsoever!

  • Comment number 29.

    "Mandy has given the govt some grip"..not bad for a man who's ego is covered in slime. With Mandy at the helm, this spent govt are guarenteed to disappear into the political wilderness.

    Quite surprised the fascist-left have the ability (and energy) to throw eggs but i would like to thank them for keeping the BNP in the news as i am sure jobs seekers allowance doesn't go very far in filling up the larder and fridge.

  • Comment number 30.

    Gazprom has the option to offer a like-deal to UK... consumers; US$1 per-month per-customer. BG, Eon... shares effectively worthless as utility-suppliers cannot compete.

    As to nuclear, uranium is imported & is subject to reduced-supply, market-force prices...

    Choice-of-one is self-sufficiency [walls-of-glass, solar, wind, wave...].

  • Comment number 31.

    KingCelticLion (#22) I saw the headline a few hours ago but have just had a look at it in detail now that you've drawn attention to it. I've watched this celebritism/narcissism bubble growing with the same incredulity as the and then the property porn bubble. It all feeds on the same, largely female, insecurities I believe. With any luck, it will be the next bubble to burst trough lack of investment.

    It's egregiously engineered, ostentatious, shallow, Ratner-like rubbish, the lot of it.

  • Comment number 32.

    Just watched tonights programme... definitely a case of vote for me because I am going to change the electoral system...(reading the small print in a couple of years after which 'we' can come to the conclusion that the best system will be the status quo and besides by that time the electorate will have forgotten about it)

    Typical New Labour tactic a promise that they will never have to deliver or like the vote on the Lisbon treaty a promise they can choose to ignore as a no cost policy ditch. Funny there was no talk of electoral reform prior to the electorate deciding not to vote and the BNP getting elected.

    The Unite representative had it right, there are more important things that require action like support for manufacturing.

    Whatever you think of the BNP they have a right to stand as they are not banned organisation and were elected under due process. Those who feel strongly about the BNP should challenge them at the ballot box not using the thug tactics as it only strengthens the BNP case and makes them look respectable. The problem with mainstream parties is that they have consistently refused to engage the BNP, boycotting platforms where BNP candidates are present. This failure to engage plays into their hands, the electorate who go to hustings meetings see that the only party willing to present a case and listen to their views is the BNP. It is time the mainstream parties stopped burying their heads in the sand and took the political fight to the BNP as unfortunately they are here to stay

  • Comment number 33.

    #15 JJ

    Your post makes much sense in reference to my own experiences.

    Go1 won't like it but I am about 1/2 taller than Mike Tyson when he won his first world championship. But exactly the same weight, even down to the same waist measurement. 15/7 and 34 inches.

    Now standing next to each other Tyson looks loads heavier than me, more muscle bulk. But we are exactly the same weight, waist and so similar in height. I can only conclude I have much denser muscle than Tyson.

    Now having read scientific work (sorry Go1, there does seem to be genetic and phenotypic differences) certain ethnic groups have more fast twitch muscle fibres. Think a line up in an Olympic 100m final. But other ethnic groups have other muscle attributes. Think world's strongest man ( I have very blue eyes).

    Now if I had to fight Tyson I would be very aware of a very quick explosive punch. By the same token if we were working together on a construction site and had to put a 1/4 tonne joist into position, and there was only room for one. I would respectfully ask Mike to stand aside. No point in him struggling.

    I have never been violent in my life. Deep down sub consciously and even consciously I know if I were ever to hit an normal person/man it is not some cartoon black eye or blue birds flying round their head. If I unwind 218 lb behind my fist against their temple. Game over.

    Relating genetics and distribution curves. If big people were aggressive or violent. There would be no little people. Little people would be removed from the gene pool.

    Somehow this allows small people to be able to be abusive, aggressive and violent. Their existence is only allowed to continue by the fact that big people do nothing or run away. Not because they are afraid. It is because if they ever lose control and do lash out, the small person is finished.

    I have only ever hit someone once. I had been at a Ju Jitsu club for 6 weeks to try and recover from injuries as an innocent party in a car crash. The club entered a FSK (Free Style Karate) competition. So they entered me in the 95kg category against my wishes. As a favour and under pressure against my will I agreed to fight.

    I was nearly 40 with 6 weeks training, but had to fight a national level kick boxer 12 years younger, 30 lb heavier of intensely trained muscle. I had trained with him, even holding a 6 inch thick body shield when he kicked me he launched me backwards 2ft and bruised my ribs. Without the body shield if he hit me he was going to put me in hospital. Broken ribs, broken jaw whatever.

    So on the night of the fight I let him try and hit me. Blocked him then HIT HIM. 10 seconds of the first round, first blow, a knock out. I know people will say I shouldn't have done it. But you must have fought at that level to understand. He was going to hopitalise me. We are dealing with reaction times of 1/100ths of a second and that window of opportunity presented itself. I wasn't good enough to be able to 'pull' the punch.

    I have to add we were padded up with gloves etc and head guards. So not quite like a bare knuckle blow in the street.

    Small people can be aggressive, violent and bullying. Because they do not have the extra responsibility of being a big person. As a big person when you walk down the street, when you realise you are just to be mugged by 5 normal (small) people. The first thing that comes into your mind is how do I get out of this without hurting them.

    That is why we have small people. If big people were aggressive or bullies we would have removed them from the genepool 10,000 years ago.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 34.

    The BBCs cheap anti-Russian propaganda is really embarrassing.
    "Evil" Russians are investing their own money and building a new pipeline to bring more gas to Europe directly, avoiding trouble with Ukrainian transit- it must be terrible!
    Does the BBC worried that prises on gas will drop and pensioners in Britain can afford to live in warm houses?
    Germany begged Russia to build the new gas route, as they understand that Ukraine is extremely unstable country and the main problem of the stable gas supply from Russia. (It seems that the BBC deliberately didnt mention Ukraine which is constantly refusing to pay proper market price for the Russian gas.)
    In a free market if you dont want to buy Russian gas- find another supplier and build up your own pipeline!

  • Comment number 35.

    Just watched the part of tonight's programme on our increasing dependence on Russian gas - there was an interesting/ hair-raising story in the late 90's where the Polish government had signed a memorandum of understanding with Norway to supply gas to Europe via an underwater pipeline through the Baltic sea. The intention was to give Europe access to considerably less politicised gas and make it less dependent on one supplier, ie Russia. Europe at this point was very close to not having to deal with the problems you just described in your programme.

    However the Russians managed to 'convince' Polish politicians at the time (Poland was run by a socialist/ ex-communist goverment back then) to terminate this agreement with Norway. Simultaniously a new agreement was drawn between Russia and Germany to supply gas, also via the underwater route through the baltic (however completly ommitting Polish territorial waters) to Europe. This was neccessary as it is technically not feasible to have 2 pipelines crossing each other underwater, it was therefore going to either be Norwegian or Russian gas, not both. Russia was keen to make sure it was going to be theirs.

    The Polish government agreed to this, eventhough it was against Polish national interest. Instead of having a pipeline of politically neutral gas running through its country, Poland was entirely left out of the new deal struck between Russia and Germany. The politicians who allowed this to happen were later found to have been connected with the Russian secret service.... This, and many further scandals surrounding that socialist goverment led it losing power a few years later (if one now looks at the polish political landscape, it is entirely controlled by the center right, as the socialist party has been found out to have been entirely compromised by Russia intelligence, often working against Polish national interest, as in this example - it now has less than 10% of the vote, far less than any other socialist party in eastern europe...)

    Germany went into this deal fully aware of the political ramifications such concentrated supply would have. However it wasnt really Germany at fault here - it was their charismatic bundeskanzler Gerhard Schroeder who signed this deal with Russia in spite of some significant domestic opposition. Interestingly, Schroeder was subsequently, after losing the next elections, made chairman of the resulting new pipeline company Nord Stream, honorary chairman of Gazprom and more recently a boardmember of TNK. He now lives in Moscow too....

    How one man's ambition and naivity, and anothers country's infiltration by its old occupiers, can cripple the energy independence of a whole continent is indeed staggering. Maybe the above is worth a followup to the story you aired today...?

  • Comment number 36.

    I thought it was fascist groups that use aggression to suppress people's views. This so-called anti-facist party seems to be using the same doctrine as the fascists. But of course it will be different in their case, justified, reasonable etc.... Thus was dictatorship ever born.

  • Comment number 37.


    restassured (#36) "I thought it was fascist groups that use aggression to suppress people's views. This so-called anti-facist party seems to be using the same doctrine as the fascists. But of course it will be different in their case, justified, reasonable etc.... Thus was dictatorship ever born."

    I suspect an awful lot of private and state resources will be put into trying to limit the exposure which the BNP gets, given that their (non-racist) policies are a threat to the socio-economics of Liberal-Democracies. If one looks at the 'Collective Guilt Campaign' after WWII designed by allied Psychological Warfare to undermine the Germans' and others' faith in centralised government, primarily because it effectively controlled financial services nothing more. If one looks at US and EU foreign policy where costly (to their own people economic, and ultimately military, sanctions have been meted out to nations going Command Economy, they are hardly likely to turn a blind eye to such trends domestically. It is done ever so cleverly I suspect. After all, HAMAS was democratically elected wasn't it?

    I suspect this is why we see so little of Old Labour in practice tehse days. What we see is the reverse. Old Labour policies just aren't allowed. New Labour only got back in again as a clone of the Conservatives. I think we are seeing continued decentralisation i.e an attack on the Public Sector in the UK as was the case in Germany via the Collective Guilt Campaign after the war - it's the only way to make sense of all the theatrics, i.e. New Labour and Neo-Conservatives are just left and right fringe Liberal Democrat Libertarian parties - none of whom do anything much by design. That's the anarcho-capitalist way. It's mainly spin.

    It's why most people don't vote :-(

  • Comment number 38.

    kashibeyaz (#23) "#17; A bit too serious; nobody thinks AMS a credible operator other than Gordi; "The Apprentice" is an "entertainment" so don't draw too many conclusions from it; remember Coronation Street.

    Second thoughts; even Gordi doesn't find Siwawan credible; but he thinks the "little people" do, hence his grab for popularity by lording him."

    Prima facie, the above is more evidence that you're not at all rational. 'The little people" are the vast majority of the population these days. The BBC runs 'The Apprentice' because it's popular with 'the little people'. Mr Brown (nee Mandelson) evidently wants more Sugar in his dysfunctional economy. One has to ask why Jews have such salience (think Cohen as his fund raiser, and Levy Blair's) given that Jews only comprise half a percent of the UK population. Where are all the British Chinese (who are equal in proportion to British Jews and come top in our schools) in Westminster and the media in these allegedly highly equalitarian and meritocratic times? It is statistically remarkable is it not? None in the House of Lords either.

    Have you a rational explanation? Or do you only know how to sneer?

  • Comment number 39.

    unlimited migration of the international socilaists] is just as extremist an ideology as no migration [national socialists]. both are unbalanced. extremism begets extremism.

    yes NN has strong links to labour

    Gazprom is a clear and present danger to uk national security imo. The russians would never allow foreign companies ownership or total control of russian infrastructure because they see it as strategic. The only reason we have it in the uk is because of the market fundamentalists belief that the 'market' is the best arranger. Yet we know the market is stupid, greedy and biased. Not the best arranger of anything regarding the common good.

  • Comment number 40.

    KinCelticLion (#33) "Somehow this allows small people to be able to be abusive, aggressive and violent. Their existence is only allowed to continue by the fact that big people do nothing or run away. Not because they are afraid. It is because if they ever lose control and do lash out, the small person is finished."

    Human females are shorter than males (larely an estrogen effect). Human males tend to let human females get away with their aggression because huaman males are more muscular and can do far more damage, females little. There appears to be a powerful brake on normal male aggression towards human females, with very powerful social sanctions against those whose brakes don't work.

    This sexual-dimorphism is an ideal opportunity for evolutionary adaptation for a minority group to acquire hegemonic advantage, i.e cerebrally slightly feminized males of one group (e.g. Jewish) could get the edge over androgenized males in another (gentiles - extreme example being Blacks/Arabs) via acquiring some female traits. This is what I suspect may have happened. It would go some way towards explaining past stereotypes as well as the conflict in the Middle East (think of Islamic codes of behaviour for females and how the above would conflict). In full CAH (NCAH is not treated at all), only females are treated with dexamethasone (find out why). Note, NCAH is the most prevalent autosomal recessive disorder known to human kind. It is just more prevalent in the Ashkenazim. This is why the problem won't be solved by focusing just upon Jews and why I say this is just an interesting epidemiological group. Many more Jews are not affected at all (1/3 carriers, 1/27 homozygous for eh NCAH polymorphisms).

    PS. Anecdotal argument is not persuasive because of the low N. I use individuals merely to illustrate something epidemiologically interesting. It would be good to have genotypes of the cases which I have referred to. CYP21 polymorphisms are on C6P21. It's testable/refutable.

  • Comment number 41.

    bookhimdano (#39) "yes NN has strong links to labour"

    But which Labour? New Labour (clone of Conservatives) or Old Labour? I thought Derek Simpson talked sene last night. The others were spinning, especially Taylor. If Simpson's union is this critical of 'Labour' (as it should be) people should pay more attention I suggest. The anti-BNP piece was appalling for its lack of representation of the BNP. Let them be heard, and, if need be, let them hoist themselves. Just do it fairly. prima facie they have far more in common with Old Labour than people appreciate. Bracket (put aside) the talk of racism for the time being. Racism per se is illegal. It is also irrational.

  • Comment number 42.

    Brilliant Newsnight last night - loved the graphics and the intro for "normal service will resume shortly" and then Mandelson's head on the test card. Ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!

    Loved Stephen's report on the English language. The word "noob" isn't new at all - it's been in circulation for years! It's commonly used in the show "Scrubs" as the character Dr.Cox calls JD Noobie all the time :p

    Absolutely loved Jeremy's interview with Professor Crystal too - even he thought it was absurd to say that the English language was waiting for it's 1,000,000th word.


  • Comment number 43.

    Why did you not offer Griffin the opportunity to come in and defend himself? Sky did and he made quite a good case. We continually hear about letting these people condemn themselves with their own words then they are excluded from the debate on the BBC. That anti Fascist character was advocating things far worse than Griffin does and he's not even elected yet you allow him on. I see why the BBC has got such a bad reputation for this sort of thing.

    Get Jeremy Paxman to interview Griffin, that would be far more interesting to watch than Simon Hughes and some unelected anti Fascist mouthpiece. I'd also be interested to hear why these anti Fascists don't run for election themselves if they want legitimacy. I suppose they don't need to if the BBC gives them an open platform rather than listen to those who have actually gone to the trouble of getting elected.

  • Comment number 44.

    Excellent piece on the evil BNP - the people who are not a Nazi party but just propagate the same ideology as Hitler.

    Those who bother to read the Cult of the Latter Day Haw haws on this page know that you don't have to scratch the surface too much to see what is down below.

    Thankfully those who value democracy are waking up to the need to change tactics and the shame of fascists in power will be addressed.

    I think Simon Hughes put it all really well.

    On the Gas problem I thought the piece was interesting but did not really identify two key issues. One is taking gas through third party countries with an axe to grind is fraught with difficulty and the other is that these supply problems should push us faster towards energy security via renewables. As ever Brown has been influenced by big business and gone for a larger nuclear element than we want or can afford - and there is still no clue about the vast clean up costs and methods.

    If the projected 2020 carbon shortfall is still on, and at this stage I assume discoveries would have a significant lead time, then could we face the prospect of the lights going out.

    Scotland was hardly a victory ground for Labour and what does that say about the prospects of a 2010 Scottish referendum victory for the SNP?

    If they go and take the many wind farms with them does that affect the overall capacity of England and probably Wales (for a while)?

    But given the vast debts we now face it would take quite a shrewd economist to evaluate what we can afford to commit to green energy and what we cannot afford NOT to commit given likely oil price rises and the need for a functioning infrastructure.

  • Comment number 45.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 46.

    #33 kingcelticlion

    "Go1 won't like it but I am about 1/2 taller than Mike Tyson when he won his first world championship. But exactly the same weight, even down to the same waist measurement. 15/7 and 34 inches."

    I seem to recall the other week you mentioned your mother used to take phone calls from nobel prize winners as you are very smart; you told the police the Tay would flood etc etc.

    So for the Aryan model you are a very physically strong genius.

    But I am not a race "realist" and despise your model of eugenics.

    I am a democrat and I could not care less what your shape is or whether you are hyper intelligent or just have a vivid imagination. Its the genuine content that matters not the propaganda.

    I do despise fascists and Nazis and will always do so.

  • Comment number 47.

    The Anti Fascist Fascist you had speaks with last night JP Failed.

    Build A Million Houses? The M1 2 3 4 25 is already a carping Car Park

    Interesting About the Englishes Languages (No Mention Of Jockenease)

  • Comment number 48.

    Or was it the Night B4

    Now I No I'm not Mad ;)

  • Comment number 49.

    I do dispise the fascist left...they have no dress sense.

    I am 6.1 blue eyed and blonde..well strawberry blonde. This may explain my film viewing habits; you just can't beat the camera work and editing skills of Leni Riefenstahl...pure art.

  • Comment number 50.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 51.


    Just in case there's any misunderstanding, here's Lenin (1920) on a related point when dismissing the German communists as suffering from an infantile disorder (narcissistic liberal-democratic anarchism?).

    Why did Stalin (who promoted Socialism in One Country/National Bolshevism) later go on to tell the German communists (KPD) that the future of socialism lay with Hitler? For the time being, strip away all the WWII and post-war propaganda.

    Newsnight should indeed have Griffin/Brons on and ask how their policies differ from those already on the statute books (e.g. the voluntary repatriation provision) and where, if at all, their party's policies are at odds with those of Old Labour.

  • Comment number 52.

    Go1 #46

    "Its the genuine content that matters not the propaganda."

    Is this what we call shooting one's self in the foot?

  • Comment number 53.

    #46 Go1

    Thanks I appreciate you reading and paying some attention to what I write.

    I find the blog very educational and informative and feels it contributes to my own personal learning process and development.

    With regard to life sciences I branched more in to ecology and systems rather than the genetics, development and psychology of JJ. That is why I take in what is presented. With an open mind and try and related to my own experience and knowledge. As I do with all contributors.

    I found the short people aggressive trait fascinating. No one bigger than me has evry threatened me physically, (other than the martial art example).

    In a way this is counter intuitive to the expectations of society. How often are the words "big bully" used together, without question of that juxtaposition? When in fact the actuality may be the opposite.

    The whole verbal/spatial debate is also fascinating. You are correct I did notify the police that UK flooding was imminent. The figure I had was on or after 9th December 2006, the Tay flooded on the 13th and the UK followed.

    This was a spatial solution. The convergence of a number of factors through time. Until a point that the system would experience a criticality, go into chaotic flow, (in terms of entropy derived information systems) which would physically manifest as the flooding the UK experienced.

    I couldn't get any support for my work, so I funded it myself window cleaning and working in construction. I wanted to stop people, animals and plants getting hurt or killed. It was so sad having done all the work, the police couldn't do anything, and a preventable catastrophe was allowed to happen.

    (The Government also knew the flooding was going to occur and how to prevent it in 2001).

    I have to admit I do not possess good verbal skills. So my intelligence may be not as you think, because it is skewed to one end of the verbal/spatial spectrum.

    Strength is another multi factor situation. Kinetic energy is 1/2mass x velocity squared. So a punch could be more dependent on the explosive power.

    While coming from generations of railway workers (navvies) and crofters for 150 years as I know of. Here endurance and sustained heavy lifting power would be more of an asset.

    Though I appreciate you having read my work. Having gone through it myself I cannot find one reference to my 'model of eugenics'. So find it difficult to understand why you despise something I haven't said.

    I fully admit my interest is planetary ecological systems, so I love everything on this beautiful planet.

    What I am getting from this blog is why there appears to be a 'bubble' of narrow ideas which occupy much of politics, media and economics. An ideology which without thought for it's consequences appears to be managing this planet along a trajectory to the extinction of all higher life forms in the very near future. That and why so many people seem completely unconcerned or unwilling to take an appropriate action or implement an alternative strategy.

    It will all end in tears. Well it won't because there will be no one left to cry.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 54.

    NewFazer (#52) I'm still trying to work out what it was about Hitler and 'fascists' that he doesn't like (leaving aside some notion he has that Nazis just gasssed, steamed, minced, shot, tortured and otherwise did extremely nasty things to people at random just because they took a dislike to them). he doesn't seem to like the idea of any planning which probably accounts for his disordered emotions and thinking I suspect?

    Isn't it odd that the USA and Israel are not signed up to the ICC and that Israel (which allegedly has nuclear weapons) isn't signed up to the Non-Proliferation Treaty either, but regards Iran as a threat because it has the potential to build nuclear weapons. Israel is no threat to anyone of course, not even the Palestinians. Meanwhile, on the West Bank - what are the Jews doing - making 'Swiss' cheese? Allegedly the God they created and wrote about in their books told them that they were The Chosen Ones. Talk about Narcissistic Personality Disorder, grandiosity and lack of empathy - no wonder they invented psychoanalysis - good business in NYC even though it's untreatable - is that why they set up Hollywood ? ;-(

    Funny old Liberal-Democratic world eh?

  • Comment number 55.

    JJ #54

    Go1's thinking is extremely muddled and often given to flights of fancy, ie his statement about CL's "model of eugenics". I too looked back in the archive but can find nothing in what CL has ever posted which could give just cause for that remark.

    He seems to me to be defending an indefensible position that someone else has left him in and that he does not properly understand. I don't know who it is that he is trying to please/impress. He's a stalwart though, I'll give him that. He'll go down with his ship, still firing blanks.

  • Comment number 56.

    #54; glad to read you admit that Hitler had a plan, just like the BNP have; to be fair to Adolf, however, he was quite open about his plans from the beginning, whereas you and your crew dress things up in creepy pseudo-science and "rational" argument.

    Yet again, I think the way you describe the events of WW2 an affront to humanity; your sneering, flippant attitude to everything and everybody apart from you and your crew's loopy-doopy "ideas" provides plenty of evidence for your views on democracy.

    "Nazis just...minced...people at random"; disgraceful.

    Newsnight; how long are you going to allow this sort of fascist invective about historical events to go unchallenged; get some of these people on with Jeremy; they'll only be able to contain themselves for about thirty seconds before the flecks appear on his pinstripe.

    Anything on Iranian elections yet? Before Friday??

    dallan1690; werr ure Sasshhhhh priedullie buckice.

  • Comment number 57.


    In terms of control and aggression etc have you ever watched The Dog Whisper. Sky 3 freeview. I don't agree with everything he says. But it is interesting. It is worth a look if you haven't seen it. Can't write much about it here in case mods cut and paste me to Animals Do the Funniest Things.

    #51 What Every Good Newsnight Blogger Should Read

    Sorry only read it once, but am really confused. Half of it seemed to be about NuLabour

    "The Nazi regime inflated the money supply as the means of financing the vast increase in government spending required by its programs of public works, subsidies, and rearmament."

    I thought this was quantitative easing.

    "it is necessary to unmask large-scale domestic plots and to sacrifice major officials and entire factions in giant purges."

    "then obviously nothing can be printed which the government does not want printed." (or broadcast?)

    What a strange article?

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 58.

    NuLabour Project

    Snore !
    Roll on the general election.


    I am not interested in the lefts internal infighting , but I say this, if we deny a group of their civil rights then it sets a precedent for yours or my civil rights to be denied next.

    If the BNP breaks the law , then it's a case for the police and the courts to deal with, not self appointed mobs, even if their intent is well meaning.

    Mr Paxman, maybe you should have asked the Lib Dem bloke, given the election of two BNP MEPs' in the Euro Elections , do they still think bringing in a system of PR at Westminster would be a good thing for the country ?

    Russian Gas

    I think I am repeating myself here , but we need to be careful with whom we trade with. Whatever the immediate economic benefit is , it's the long term consequences I hope we are considering.

    wow !

    Now that would make for a interesting investigation by Newsnight ?

  • Comment number 59.

    kashibeyaz #56

    "Nazis just...minced...people at random"

    Tut-tut! Can't let you get away with that. What you have (inaccurately) quoted was from the writings of Go1 not JJ. I think you owe an apology there.

  • Comment number 60.

    Dear Newsnight


    In case you do anything on police torture. I have been tortured by the police in England, as I have posted on this blog and wrote to you many times over the years, but so far have had no reply.

    I am sure using the words, celtic lion police torture, Google might assist.

    Can't ever be accused of being behind the news.

  • Comment number 61.

    New Fazer #59

    Come on now - wake up, you have got that one completely wrong. The quote was a JJ parody of Go1 not Go1 himself. Now apologise for the cock-up and get back to your work.

    OK - sorry, be more careful next time. Blush.

  • Comment number 62.

    kashibeyaz (#56) "Newsnight; how long are you going to allow this sort of fascist invective about historical events to go unchallenged"

    You clearly don't know your history. I am alluding to some of the clearly fabricated 'evidence' provided at the IMT (mainly by the USSR). These were non-events. People need to know about these non-events as they are abused as propaganda in order to frighten innocent people off political movements which they should seriously consider without invective and censorship encouraged by people such as yourself and thegangofone. You sneer, and use invective and threats in order to secure your own interests. You should count how many innocent Iraqis lost their lives through the coalition purporting to bring them freedom whilst protecting Israel, and how the USA employed PR firms to circulate propaganda about Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait - not to mention the nonsense about WMDs.

  • Comment number 63.

    I just watched PMQ's , why is Mr brown saying that public spending is going to be increased under Labour without saying how many 10's of billions £ of that rise is going to be eaten up by paying the interest on the mountain of debt he has created for this country ?

    Could NN clarify this ?

  • Comment number 64.

    #49 The cookie ducker

    Say what you want about Leni Riefenstahl, she did do some groundbreaking work on the explosive musculature of certain ethnic groups, which may or may not be be as a result of predominately fast twitch muscle fibres.

    And against her state funded documentary brief.

    Strawberry blond? Come on now are we talking ginger here?

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 65.

    So the BBC censor those who object to them censoring the BNP & inviting on real fascist street thugs. Reductio ad absurdum.

    Incidentally for that mob to know Griffin was going to be there somebody from the media must have told them. If they knwew the UAF fascists would make use of it that way that is criminal conspiracy. I look forward to the BBC &/or police investigation into such fascists in the media.

  • Comment number 66.

    #53 kingcleticlion

    "So my intelligence may be not as you think, because it is skewed to one end of the verbal/spatial spectrum."

    I was jesting as I don't think you are a genius. I think you are a fascist and a Nazi and Mengele was clever - but evil, like the BNP.

    Hitler was short and aggressive - must be your role model. But he got beat and shot himself by the way.

    #62 Jaded_Jean
    "You sneer, and use invective and threats in order to secure your own interests."

    Threats? Report them to the moderator. My interests are I am a democrat and you have to protect democracy from those tyrants who would remove it.

    I would like to think I try to hoist your lies and true colours up so that people can see what you are.

    For instance you have said that there is not much difference between Stalinism and National Socialism. You say "mass murder" has been used to undermine the argument for statism. Then you say that the Holocaust did not happen and that what killing there was was done by the Russians - who are statists.

    You provide statistics about Jewish survival rates from the 1930's to try and undermine the historical truth (Irving trial and thousands of trials of Nazi war criminals) of the Holocaust - but you say you are agnostic and therefore are not convinced by your own propaganda.

    You know they are lies and you know the great majority of people who read this will be enraged by the lies. Its futile.

    If you really thought they were not lies then you would point out a single trial where the defence has successfully argued that there was no Holocaust.

    If you try to say that the trials were biased then I assume you will be calling for all of those Nazis convicted to be exonerated and the witnesses will be prosecuted where alive.

    Nobody will be there at the Djemjanjuk trial with their "statistics".

    The furniture used by Himmler - made with human bones and skin - demonstrates the depravity of the Nazis.

    Anybody who reads your "high end" ideological rants can see where you would go with your race "realism" and cutting edge eugenics.

    The far right doesn't want democracy and so I do hope that those who oppose the evils of the far right will make sure temporarily disillusioned democratic voters don't get duped again by the moderate image of the BNP.

    Hitler was peace loving! His relationship with his niece was a model of Aryan family life!

    The Cult of The Latter Day Haw Haws has made some small gains but that won't last.

  • Comment number 67.

    Beckett as a Speaker will not give confidence to the public as she is too partisan. She looked the other way on Iraq.

    Brown gets the feel for PR - but there is a need for something that gives proportionality so that say the Greens and Lib Dems get their just returns on votes and preference voting so that people can exclude parties - like the BNP.

    If they reform the House of Lords then what is the relationship of an elected upper house to the Commons?

    Do we go for a radical US approach? Checks and balances so that a PM can't have a chat with his mate and then bobs your uncle the Iraq War is legal?

    Can Brown really grasp the need for cross party consensus?

  • Comment number 68.

    #59 Newfazer

    More far right lies. "Nazis just...minced...people at random" - I did not say that.

    I have said the Nazis committed the Holocaust and they would shoot friend or foe at the drop of a hat - such as Rommel, Rohm, gypsies, Jews, "anarchists".

    Anyway you people aren't supposed to be Nazis according to your public "image". You are a modern and progressive party - not one caught up in a 1930's cult fixation on Hitler. Its not ideological - you only have to try and get the rationale on why far RIGHT hate Jews to see that.

    So far as I can glean Stalin ejected "anarchists and Trotskyites" - some of whom were Jews - from Russia, Hitler felt they did him out of a job and therefore there is ongoing hatred of Jews.

    It all makes perfect sense to you.

  • Comment number 69.

    #56 kashibeyaz

    "get some of these people on with Jeremy; they'll only be able to contain themselves for about thirty seconds before the flecks appear on his pinstripe."

    In 2004 BBC News did a week's programming on climate change focused on the Government's Chief Scientist Sir David King's risk assessment that climate change was a greater threat than terrorism.

    The problem was he wasn't the author. I was, for a UN report commissioned by the UK Government. As far as I am aware Sir David was only a committee member, not a contributor. What he was saying was just a line, which without the context of the rest of my work I considered did not present the true picture.

    The BBC asked people to phone in with comments. I did and told them I was the author of the report they were doing the weeks programming on. I was soon passed to the editors/producers.

    As the original was still on the DEFRA site within seconds they acknowledged that what they were telling the public was not fully accurate and I indeed was the true author not Sir David.

    Having spoke to me for a few minutes about context etc, they conceded that I did no more than Sir David and was able to express it clearly.

    Though they had to consider that Sir David was a celebrity and a media personality. The producer was blunt and truthful telling me though news it was still about ratings, so as a celebrity and personality they would run with Sir David as the original author even though they knew he wasn't.

    Even on something as important as climate change. Truth lost out to celebrity. A vast amount of what the media, all media, say about climate change is not as accurate or as useful as it should be. It is distorted because the media want to take a very simplistic view, dumbing down if you wish. Very often it is celebrities ( or politicians) who are used to explain or present issues. As they don't have command of, or are not fluent in the subject, what is presented is no the best communication of the issues for the viewer. Rather the best a 'celebrity' can do, or the best that is acceptable within an unsuitable political/ideological framework.

    What the media doesn't like is evolving conceptual paradigms. They like to discuss new challenges etc, within the context of an outmoded ideological framework. Which in reality should evolve to take on the new challenge. This is why we get the same talking heads on Newsnight debating problems, which had they any true knowledge of, they would have not have let happen in the first place.

    Take for example the space race. When Kennedy said he wanted to put a man on the moon. NASA didn't discuss the problem of the rocket crashing into the crystal spheres which supported the heavenly bodies. This was because that conceptual framework/paradigm had moved on from the initial work of Copernicus and Galileo etc.

    Now you might say get us on Newsnight. But it isn't going to happen, because news isn't news. It is who is inside that media/political celebrity bubble/tent. It is not the ideas that are important, it is the familiarity with existing people/ celebs etc. Their PR, agents and the rest of the circus parade.

    This is why the media are years behind the reality of the global dynamic and situation. They deal with people who react to events. Not those with vision, who have foresight, wisdom or who have another (and could be better) perspective on events. By virtue of having another (better?) perspective of events, if they were allowed inside the political/media bubble. They would as a matter of their entry inside it-burst it. And where would the mainstream political/media be then.

    If you want me on Newsnight, please keep campaigning. I thank you for your support. I sincerely hope that with your continued support, together, you will get your wish.

    Yours sincerely

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 70.

    #66 Go1

    "I was jesting as I don't think you are a genius. I think you are a fascist and a Nazi and Mengele was clever - but evil, like the BNP.

    Hitler was short and aggressive - must be your role model. But he got beat and shot himself by the way."

    What on Earth are you jibber jabbering about? Have you got me mixed up with another blog, site or even planet?

    I write on ecology, planetary systems etc. Trying to keep as much life alive as possible and trying to avoid some impending ecological crash.

    I might recognise bits it if you called me a deep ecologist, a Jain, having an affinity with Native American, pre Christian Celtic or Anglo Saxon shamen. I even read some of that stuff Jesus said (but not how it appears through the organised church or state). etc.

    So just where do you get BNP and Nazis from. You seem to support the Green's, but much of their work comes from stuff I contributed to in various reports and policy and strategy initiatives. I don't myself support or agree with everything they say. But I have influenced them.

    Please if you find it helpful read everything I have written on this blog. You seem to have confused me with some construct of your imagination.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 71.

    PLUS CA CHANGE......

    thegangofone (#66) "For instance you have said that there is not much difference between Stalinism and National Socialism. You say "mass murder" has been used to undermine the argument for statism. Then you say that the Holocaust did not happen and that what killing there was was done by the Russians - who are statists."

    I provided a link above to an article by a chap from the Von Mises Institute. Those chaps are Libertarians like your Liberal-Democrats. Did you read it? Did you understand it?

    What you go on to say I did not say, but I have said that propaganda has been used since the end of WWII to discourage statism. What I said about the Russians is that Gorbachev admitted that Katyn was the work of the NKVD not the Germans, although at the IMT the Soviets made out that it was the Germans. Our own FCO report this at their website.

    What you have to ask yourself is this:- If you heard that the Germans had run 'death camps' where they killed millions of innocent Jews, would you a) want to adopt the Germans' political/economic system or b) would you be more sympathetic to the political/economic system promoted by Jews who survived?

    Imagine that the Germans hadn't done those terrible things, but you'd accepted the Jewish system of politics/economics which basically says, 'you don't need to manage an economy, it manages itself by magic'.

    Now imagine, just as a hypothetical of course, that the reason why the Germans had developed their non-magical political/economic system was because lots of Jewish bankers and their kin had nearly wrecked their economy with teir talk of magic, so the Germans developed a new strict system, and rounded up all those Jewish bankers and their kin who had nearly wrecked the eocnomy with their magic-economy idea in order that they didnn't do it again. They even burned their books. Then, alas, nutty friends of those bankers and kin who lived overseas started a war against the Germans, and because the Germans were outnumbered, and got bombed a lot, many of the bankers and kin in the German prisons went hungry and some got very sick and died, whilst others, liberated by those bombing them etc, let the bankers and kin go and live in their country or a place of their own where it was sunny.

    Finally, two groups of those nice liberators then fell out with each other and one of them (where many of the liberatees lived) went and built a great big wall from the Baltic to the Crimea in order to keep their old friends out (because their old friends had gone and adopted the magic-economy system which had made such a mess of Germany before the war, leading to the bankers etc being locked up), so those on the other side of the wall didn't know where the bankers and kin had gone to. Being prone to magical-thinking like their relatives, they then started imagining all sorts of terrible things must have happened because they couldn't contact their relatives behind the wall. I mean, where had they gone? Frantic they were.

    Some folk overseas saw this as a great ruse. This was a great way to make sure that the magical-economy idea really took root, so they kept reminding people about what the Germans had once done, even though they weren't sur eit really was the Germans. The guys on the far side of the wall weren't talking to them anymore anyway, and the Germans who ran things had all been bumped off so couldn't protest. In fact, laws were passed so that if anyone did protest they were immediately locked up!

    In the meantime, guess what started to happen to those people who spun the stories? They got very rich, but the place they lived slowly became more and more like Germany before the bankers were locked up...

    You couldn't make it up.

    Plus ca change....

  • Comment number 72.

    Go1 #68

    "Nazis just...minced...people at random" - I did not say that.

    Entirely true - see #61

    However you still persist in the
    myth of furniture made from human remains
    . These unfounded statements do nothing to help your cause. If you talk nonsense like that who is going to believe you about anything else?

  • Comment number 73.

    KingCelticLion (#69) David King has a colourful early history in S Africa and after. Is he Jewish?

    There have been all sorts of odd goings in New Labour's 'Big Tent' as well as 'academia' over the past 30 years. Enough to drive anyone nuts.

  • Comment number 74.

    Previously censored post amended to pass:

    Unmentioned in the intro is the item about the attack, .... on the BNP & the ... decision to have a discussion between the ... who led it & the ... about how attack a lawful & elected politician, while ensuring that no member of the party attacked was allowed to defend them. The BBC have not only entered the realm of party politics they have entered the realm of supporting street violence by ...... For years ... to promote genocide & worse Nazi crimes abroad but now they are doing so within the party political system.

    I note also that the police were apparently absent, which must be unique when speaking in the grounds of Parliament & have been unable to arrest any of these .... Perhaps the presence of cameras & appearance on TV have not provided the police with sufficient evidence.

    We are very near the edge when the state broadcaster is supporting ...
    PS I have since found that the organisation which attacked the BNP is funded by civil service unions & is thus effectively a government funded organisation, like the BBC.

  • Comment number 75.


    Addendum #51 Here, for thegangofone and kashibeyaz especially, it is again in glorious audio/video. Note that The Ludwig Von Mises Institute is the well-spring of Austrian School of Anarcho-Capitalism (e.g. Hayek) revered by freedom loving Liberal-Democrats of all theatrical persuasions, including Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

    Can everyone guess why they fled Austria?

  • Comment number 76.

    #73 JJ

    I don't know. What concerns me is he didn't follow standard etiquette and methodology. When asked where he got the risk assessment from he should have cited my work as an original source.

    He couldn't follow up the work, he did the chat show media circus, but contributed little else to the debate and in my opinion having got the spotlight wasn't an effective communicator.

    I had so much other work ( eg all the work in the proposal for the Dome as a environmental management centre.

    Had King cited me, as he should have done, then perhaps my work would have got some attention. If the media had asked me what my next concern was, perhaps someone would have taken notice of my UK flood models.

    Or that the UK and global economy would crash. King got the spotlight, but no illumination was spared for the rest of my portfolio. Perhaps once if he or the media had just mentioned me once. Those 13 people who died in 2007 would be alive now.

    I don't understand why Ramsey swearing or Sugar jabbing his finger are more important than life and the reality of existence. So having been right when others had been wrong or didn't even appreciate the problem, or took no action when I told them.

    The question now is why is no one taking any notice when I say if you don't take action now, global ecological systems will collapse in under 4 years. Extinction of all higher life forms on the planet.

    The response from the media and politicians is less than tumble weed blowing through a mid west town.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 77.

    #74 Neilninepercent

    I have to admit my ignorance re the BNP. I have never been to a meeting, visited their web site, read any of their literature. I am not even sure if they exist in Scotland, with another strong nationalist party here. Also we have different newspaper editions and only half of Newsnight.

    I in general don't do politics. Neil Robertson has called me a technocrat. If as a general foreman on a £ million a day civil engineering project, we just do it the best way we can, no elections or 'parties'.

    So I look at the whole BNP thing with some detached objectivity. I think the whole thing is a disgrace. If you are going to have a democracy by election of representatives. You have a democracy.

    If nearly 1 million voted for them, then they are a legally elected party. I saw Milli-Brand D, say it was a bad day for democracy. So he is effectively in words disenfranchising 1 million people. How to win friends and influence people.

    Just who are the totalitarian forces, who are the fascists? If they are a political party who represent 1 million, let them be heard. The actions against them will drive greater division. If you attack the party one million voted for, you attack the one million. You attack democracy.

    The BNP has nothing to do with me, but I agree with many of the posters and views, objectively, their treatment has been disgraceful. The treatment of democracy has been disgraceful.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 78.

    thegangofone said "The furniture used by Himmler - made with human bones and skin - demonstrates the depravity of the Nazis."

    Now firstly I doubt very much if such exists & would ask for evidence.

    But secondly, on previous occasions when I have said which British political parties have been complicit in killing people in Kosovo to use their body organs, something which the BBC is well aware is true though they do not give it 1/10,000 of the coverage whic I at least believe it deserves, I was censored.

    If the BBC have a code of pre-moderation that prevents us saying unfriendly things about war criminals it should apply equally to all of them.


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