BBC BLOGS - Newsnight: From the web team
« Previous | Main | Next »

Thursday 11 June 2009

Verity Murphy | 16:49 UK time, Thursday, 11 June 2009

Here's what is coming up on tonight's programme:

From the web team:

The World Health Organization (WHO) has declared a swine flu pandemic - the first global flu epidemic in 41 years - amid climbing infection rates in the US, Europe, Australia and South America.

The WHO has ratcheted up its threat level because swine flu virus is spreading in at least two regions of the world.

However, experts have been keen to stress that the move does not necessarily indicate that the virus is causing more severe illness or more deaths.

The UK government's chief medical officer Sir Liam Donaldson has told the BBC that a pandemic declaration would not significantly change the way the UK is dealing with swine flu.

So what does the declaration mean? What practical measures will result from this decision? And how worried should we be?

Our Science editor Susan Watts is in Geneva, where the WHO crisis talks have been taking place, to find out.

Also, we have an interview with Bill Gates.

In June 2008 Mr Gates stepped down from his full time role at computer giant Microsoft - the company he founded - in order to concentrate on his philanthropic work.

Kirsty has spoken to him about that work, the importance of maintaining foreign aid in a recession and Gordon Brown's future prospects.

And talking of Gordon Brown, a focus group from Reading have been telling us what they think of his premiership and how other senior Labour figures compare.

Are they right when they declare Lord Mandelson "the Arthur Daley of politics"?

Join Kirsty for all that and more at 10.30pm on BBC Two.


  • Comment number 1.

    "The UK government's chief medical officer Sir Liam Donaldson has told the BBC that a pandemic declaration would not significantly change the way the UK is dealing with swine flu.

    So what does the declaration mean? What practical measures will result from this decision? And how worried should we be?"

    Does it mean that some creative USA Government lab relased a weak strain of H1N1 in Mexico so that a mild flu strain spread around the world giving governments of those countries the opportunitty to appear as if they are doing something for their people (who get a bit sniffy and feel like kids for a while, but whose bodies do the work not the governments) thus reinforcing the idea that we're all part of one big wonderful caring global free-market economy?

  • Comment number 2.


    Are they nuts?

  • Comment number 3.


    I would like to know how many have RECOVERED from the virus, so that this can be SUBTRACTED from the CRUDE TOTAL INFECTED, currently being trumpeted by media.

    Also: how likely is it that recovery from the current strain might confer some protection against a mutated strain? (say - as Cow Pox was a defence against Smallpox.) Such immunity would surely 'damp' the 'second-wave' spread?

    Might we, please, have some calm, rational, informed comment from a quiet, non-prima-donna source?

    Thought not.

  • Comment number 4.

    From the top deck. No. 6. Part One. Thursday, 11 June 2009

    Caroline Flint .....

    Is she saying? .... Coventry is a nice place but I dont want to be here.

    Is it not the case that the resignation debacle proved where her loyalty actually resides .... solely with Caroline Flint.

    One has to wonder whether her behaviour, as opposed to her commentary, has had a detrimental effect on women whom genuinely aspire for less selfish reasons.

    Ronaldo .....

    Sorry .... Who?

    Is it the same person they have today renamed the BBC News 24 channel after?

    Is there any reason to believe that the banking crisis would be fully resolved were Ronaldo to continue to pay Tax in this country. (Does he? Or has he too taken up residence in Switzerland to escape the public adulation?) Oops, Sorry! I forgot. Any Tax revenue lost here will be more than covered by the tax paid by Lord Ashcroft.

    Can NN please confirm that tonights programme is NOT going to be retitled Ronaldonight? ( I can imagine that Lady Em - definitely not window dressing! - would, as always, look stylish in red, but Sir JP et al ????? )

    Apparently there is currently a four day waiting list for flights to Israel. (In-flight sleeping arrangements may only be available at additional cost!)

    Fact .....

    HMG is not about to introduce a Green Paper advocating that all adults waiting in a bus queue are to have CRB checks just in case a School Bus comes along. And quite right too!

    Seriously though ... It is good to see that HMG is finally tackling the hidden issue in that schools currently fail to deal adequately, and for the long term benefit, with students whom are on the brink of permanent exclusion. With schools advocating home schooling, thereby avoiding potential league table oblivion, to these students where no valid provision is available, it is just adding more corpses to the funeral pyre that is the pending lost generation ( And why is it that more concern is given to the next graduate cohorts employment prospects? It is well known that the errant unskilled and unqualified inevitably cost society far more in the long term. )

    Nursery employee charged .....

    It is possible that something good will come out of this sad womans abhorrent behaviour.

    Perhaps now HMG will look again at the yawning division between the supervision, standards, practices, staffing ratios, pay and minimum qualification requirement that exists between private and Local Authority nursery, and worst still nursery school, provision. The future for our children must definitely not be dependent upon social skills learning structures that exist primarily for profit. Admittedly HMG is doing a great deal more to improve the status quo by bringing nursery services more and more under the auspices of education opportunities but , as indicated, the approach to private nurseries by statute is soft and slovenly. Interestingly one Local Authority is now trying to sell off its entire Nursery system - for the second time - because it, the LA, is having to subsidise the nursery service to about the same amount as a Married MP couple will be getting as pay-offs now they, the couple, have finally caught up with with the moral standards demanded by the GBP.

    All nursery provision must be solely provided by Local Authorities, using a cost based and ability to pay contribution system, which will improve and maintain child safety and standards across the board. Period.

    Off subject but ..... And will HMG EVER look at the detrimental effect on society ingrained by religious Schools? ( A good thing that Im not printing this out, this question would be a waste of paper and ink! )

    Broad Band Provision...

    If you cant pay for it, what is the point? It has to be affordable.

    Swine flu ......

    Is this a media rehearsal for the coming autumn stroke winter?

    Student returns home .....

    As he is disgusted at being detained in one of the worst jails in the world, Belmarsh.

    What evidence does he have to support this statement? How many similar institutions worldwide has he spent the same amount of time in? Will he be writing reviews in future of where to be held if you want five starincarceration? Perhaps HMG will now offer him a consultancy post?

    His protestations are wonderfully supportive of the premise that foreign offenders should be deported upon sentencing. After all, if Belmarsh is the worst then all the others must be better and therefore preferable? As we have ten thousand foreign nationals in the UK it would certainly deal with prison overcrowding. ( And be cheaper! ) And why do we have to re-import our wayward nationals whom have been tried and sentenced for crimes committed overseas? They might get sent to Belmarsh! What about their human rights? I want a Public Enquiry! And Ill throw eggs at you if you dis-agree, so there!

    BBC funding ..... How to save money.

  • Comment number 5.

    From the top deck. No. 6. Part Two

    With Sentanta now going ( Ah, thatcherism from football supporters .... I want it, but I dont want to pay for it! ) ..... were the BBC to completely ignore football then hopefully the bidding war would perish, professional footballers might get over their delusional iconic status and football would be less like the choreographed ballet that it now is! ( I understand one footballer lost millions of pounds and dropped down a rich list. Why are people so careless with their mattresses? I demand a Public Enquiry! ( Wheres the eggs, luv? )

    Feral Youths .....

    How about this as a suggestion ..... In the event of a serious crime, such as the saddening Ben Kinsella case that finished today, the parents of the guilty individual(s) are jailed, stop receiving state benefits and stroke or get deported upon conviction? Why? If they have failed to fully accept the parental responsibility of bringing up their offspring to behave in a manner which is fully acceptable to the majority do they not fully deserve to receive suitable punishment for their abject failure? If you do not contribute responsibly to society to you deserve to gain from said society? ( Ask this question to Bens parents please? )

    From the web team: Newsletter for last night. ...

    No direct link to comments stroke contribute! A sign of things to come?

    Oh No! Lady Em was wearing red this afternoon on News 24!

    Wecome to The Renaldo Kingdom! Just dont tell me where the theme park is!

  • Comment number 6.

    "Apparently there is currently a four day waiting list for flights to Israel. (In-flight sleeping arrangements may only be available at additional cost!)"

    They apparently created Obama. Have they created other people too? How long have they been doing it? This would explain a lot! I think we should be told, despite the complaint of the secret getting out! This is big news and it's in the public interest!

  • Comment number 7.

    Meanwhile at the Neocon Foreign office..

    Milliband has got a new Minister of State at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office with responsibility for Middle East policy.

    Ivan Lewis -vice-chair of the Labour Friends of Israel, one of the most outspoken political supporters of Israel's military assault on Gaza.

    ...who has admitted bombarding a young female aide with suggestive phone messages? At the time Mr Lewis was making his unwelcome overtures in early 2007, he was approaching 40 and had just left his wife of 16 years, Juliette, and their two sons for a 50-year-old married councillor in his Bury constituency...

    gordon is a patron of the jnf that has polices that would be illegal in the uk. Tony, the middle east envoy, is also a patron of the jnf.

    to me it looks the neocons feel so secure they don't care what it looks like to the public who controls uk foreign policy. There isn't even a veneer of appearing unbiased?

  • Comment number 8.

    FOLLOW (trace back?) THE MONEY?

    When Obama was orating his way to the White House, we were fed the 'news' that his secret was: 'over 50% of his gob-smacking war chest came from internet-solicited donations of a few dollars each' - an innovative miracle. Being perverse, I immediately asked my radio/TV: "Where did the rest of his cash come from?"

    Now, when I hear that he has 'come down hard' on Israel, I imagine the precursor agreement to the effect that he will take such a stance, but only for public consumption. After all, anyone who thinks the 'Two State Solution' is a runner, gets filed under 'fool or knave' in my cabinet. Let's not forget he is a trained lawyer. They present data in a very special way; and when one of their number convinces the jury (us) that black is white (NO Blogdog NO - it's a figure of speech) they rise in fellow-lawyer estimation.

    Blair was also one such. Food for thought.

  • Comment number 9.

    Can someone explain, why we just watched whilst the swine flu spread, having been clever enough to recognise it so early and close to it's birth place?
    If we now have to fight it incase it turns nasty, then why did we not quarrantine Mexico in the first place? People were dying at the time.
    Banning world commuting to and from the country unless people were inoculated would have saved £billions... Money that could have saved millions of lives through additional healthcare for the 3rd world...

  • Comment number 10.

    bookhimdano (#7) "to me it looks the neocons feel so secure they don't care what it looks like to the public who controls uk foreign policy. There isn't even a veneer of appearing unbiased?"

    I agree. The pair are an affront to British diplomacy and the perception of Britain's impartiality given that some of the most sensitive issues in the world today revolve around Jews/Israel and Islam. It's highly provocative, and if anyone believes otherwise, they're sadly deluded. The disproportionate salience of Jews in the media which is being broadcast around the world is obviously contrived in order to signal power given the tiny populaton base-rate of 0.5% in the UK and ~2% in the USA.

    This should be stopped.

  • Comment number 11.

    Oh for God's sake! I've just suffered through about ten minutes of swine-flu tub-thumping on BBC1 news, and now Newsnight is spending the first 20-odd minutes speculating on what MIGHT (but probably won't) happen. Remember the fuss over SARS and bird flu? What happened - sweet Fanny Adams. Please try to keep your editors under control.

  • Comment number 12.

    Markonee1 (#9) "Can someone explain, why we just watched whilst the swine flu spread, having been clever enough to recognise it so early and close to it's birth place?"

    Because the number of deaths was exaggerated, because some people die of flu all the time, that this is not a very serious strain, and because if they'd limited travel, people would lose money, which is another indication that nobody thought it very serious. A pandemic just means its spread everywhere, rather like cars and AK47s (which also kill lots of people).

  • Comment number 13.

    Tonight's FOCUS Group:- An illustration of why giving everyone the vote really isn't a very good idea.

  • Comment number 14.


    barrie (#8) On September 11 2001, people in NYC were asking 'why us?' - didn't they know their own city's demographics? .

    How did 2% of the national population provide 50% of Obama's funding?

  • Comment number 15.


    I've said in previous posts I knew nothing about the BNP. So while it is quiet I have looked at their website.

    I admitted I didn't even know whether they existed in Scotland. They do and got 27,174 votes in the European elections.

    Now having read their website I wouldn't vote for them. That is nothing against the BNP. I don't really want to vote for any political party. None of them represent what I hold to be self evident or true to my soul, spirit or core of existence.

    JJ goes on about verbal/spatial spectrum and skills. I have designed for the UKs top independent rally builder. As a metallurgist I have beaten the metallurgists from the works teams at the time. Mitsubishi, Subaru, Citroen and Ford.

    If JJ wants to know who I believe is a genius in spatial skills, it is Ross Brawn. Not because of his recent success with his own team and Jenson Button, but watching him from his days at Ferrari. This is a man who intuitively knows what is happening at the atomic level with every component of a car re materials and design.

    But can also watch a race track of 20 cars all different and make a strategic call that puts his car ahead of all of them. Go1 if you want to know spatial genius, watch every race Brawn engineered for Ferrari, watch Button suddenly winning 6 out of 7. Ross Brawn is a spatial genius.

    If I was PM and needed some advice to get out of the mess the country and the planet is in. Never would I ever consider Sugar. Development is a trajectory, through space and time. Multi factors contributing to the most effective trajectory. Economic crash is the equivalent of going off at a corner. Both are the equivalent of losing the optimum line and entering chaotic flow. Forget Mansell, Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton. Genius, true spatial genius is Ross Brawn.

    So back to politics. Those verbal skills. So who won the elections? Who had the majority?

    Those who didn't vote, those who couldn't be bothered with the political tosh and empty verbal posturing, without depth and integrity.

    The question is, who can manage a planet safely on a trajectory through the oncoming cataracts of chaos.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 16.

    Tonight's focus group was an utter waste of time and not worthy of Newsnight. I can hear this kind of drivel on daytime television programmes or on the bus. I turned over to Question Time in disgust.

  • Comment number 17.

    #11 Blurtman

    This was sent to PM Tony Blair in March 2001. 'A source' very close to COBRA told me it was the only accurate model of FMD in the UK at the time.

    It is written for the 'informed layman', but gives a reasonable underlying understanding of all epidemics. Tony sent his thanks by return of post. He knew in March it would be over in May and therefore an election success was guaranteed in June. They just didn't tell the public that. At the time.

    JJ King got his knighthood for 'his' work on FMD. But it wasn't 'his' work the Cabinet were using.
    While England and Wales was involved in some election stushi in the media, in Scotland the reports were about Swine Flu cases increasing. Now your politics isn't on the front page, you get the Swine Flu.

    Don't you think it is bizarre that the cases are increasing exponentially in summer months? Flu is considered a winter disease. There again it originated in a hot country. Thank goodness it's flu and isn't a variant of Ebola etc.

    JJ Don't get me started on 9/11.

    Now IF climate change is caused by CO2. IF The UNEP figures are correct and 170,000 deaths a year are caused by climate change. IF what Bush said re Kyoto, just prior 9/11 that the US economy was more important than climate change. IF the US emits 25% of CO2, then US is responsible for 42,500 deaths a year. IF climate change happens it will affect hot and low lying countries first and most, mostly Islamic. IF climate change is a result of free markets not 'costing' dis-economies and externalities.

    Emails. You really wouldn't want to see those that passed between me and the UK Government and their agents prior to 9/11. And I don't think the media would want to play a part in allowing you to see them.

    9/11. Ever read the Bible Ecclesiastes, chapter 9, verse 11? Time and chance?

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 18.

    KingCleticLion (#15) "The question is, who can manage a planet safely on a trajectory through the oncoming cataracts of chaos."

    Nobody. Certainly not in the Liberal-Demoracies, as Governments don't manage anymore, they just make sure nothing gets in the way of business and the markets. Look at the Lisbon Treaty which we've ratified. Stop expecting Governments to tell business what to do, they can't and they don't - see banks and Treasury Committee recently - it's the other way round.

    If you want to see HMG do anything you're going to have to roll things back at least 30 years or more, and you'll need an Old Labour Government too. Business here, in Europe, and especially in the USA, won't like that. It undermines statist countries, and the UK post WWII tried to be statist. Given the money the USA was putting into undermining the USSR etc, do you really think it would have let that happen here? Hence New Labour, hence Thatcher...

  • Comment number 19.

    #JJ 18

    "Stop expecting Governments to tell business what to do, they can't and they don't".

    I don't. But we are heading for an almighty (terminal) crash if somebody/thing doesn't start managing the planet.

    Business, markets, Governments are just minor sub systems of a planet. Whose got the keys? I think nobody. No one has hold of the wheel.

    I am sorry but I think Brown, Cameron, Clegg et all are all divorced from reality, acting out some meaningless charde.

    I can't understand why Newsnight which is supposed to be some serious flagship news programme even bothers to give them the time of day or the oxygen of publicity.

    The content in the main of Newsnight is on par, in my opinion, with I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here or Animals Do the Funniest Things. Well not quite I do like animals.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 20.

    apparently the japanese embassy is having problems verifying the two 'japanese passport holders' arrested with 135 billion in us bonds as japanese nationals.

    maybe because they aren't?

    it seems odd a story where a couple of people are walking around with what would be the size of a small countries national debt in a suitcase trying to smuggle them into switzerland gets little coverage?

    depending on if the bonds are real or not then either this exposes a government or the crime of the century?

  • Comment number 21.

    Mr Leo do you regard this as an accurate and true prediction?

  • Comment number 22.


    Here's a question:- Whilst it's clearly criminal to go on a shooting, bombing or other wise hurting people spres, if what is said in the last paragraph of this (equally daft in intent) Guardian article were true, and people in those positions were responsible for causing millins of people great suffering, would it not be natural and rational to be anti such people? What other word would be acceptable to describe the behaviour, and should it not refer to a class of people? What should that class be? Would it be 'occupationist' to be anti-financier? Note how it's pathologised too. It is now odious to hate, so we see lobbyists pressuring for anti-hate legislation. Such legislation is directed towards protecting the behaviour of specific groups is it not? Why? Is this not a get_out_of_jail_free licence, i.e. a do_as_you_wish_with_impunity card for some groups? Is it not a means of securing hegemony?

  • Comment number 23.

    #21 Ecolizzy

    Strangely I was going to write something on the ecological hardline according to Celtic Lion on immigration.

    If you google, an abrupt climate change scenario, and go to page 17 that is another scenario, which I believe you have already read.

    The time scales organisations and political parties give are always too far into the future.

    Your reference looks like a fair assessment but the time scales will happen a lot sooner than the report indicates. There is an ecocentric solution which I'll put up in the next few days.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 24.

    #23 Mr Leo, I will very much look forward to what you have to say. I would like to know why you think this will all happen sooner than any politician realises. But then they all have their heads in the sand! ; )

  • Comment number 25.


    KingCelticLion (#17) "JJ King got his knighthood for 'his' work on FMD. But it wasn't 'his' work the Cabinet were using."

    To me you are stating the obviious. People get credit (and blame) for all sorts of behaviours which are not really attributable to them as agents. This is how celebrity endorsement in advertising and public relations works, from some pretty footballer or actress promoting a product they don't really use or understand, to politicians wearing rosettes as Barrie keeps astutely pointing out.

    We are all led to falsely attribute credit and blame because Opernant Conditioning is basically adventitious/superstitious. You write as if you just haven't had your 'fair' share of dubious credit assignment ;-) Many scientists get the credit for work which is not theirs, they have hoardes of post-grads doing their work along with technicians. The Nobels are basically like Oscars. Which group loves ostentation and theatrics? Why? This is essentially a female courting disposition is it not?

    The thing people have to try to learn is that it is nearly all false assignment. People are just models or vehicles for some more complex agenda. Brown and Obama don't write their own speeches, they just deliver them. So, why do people talk about what they say any more than other actors and actresses? It is because people have problems with attribution.

    Think about this. Think about Narcissistic Personality Disorder and how it comes about and how it is sustained and exploited. It causes lots of trouble (along with the other Axis II, Cluster B disorders which are closely related, i.e 'co-morbid')

  • Comment number 26.

    KingCelticLion (#19) "I don't. But we are heading for an almighty (terminal) crash if somebody/thing doesn't start managing the planet.

    Business, markets, Governments are just minor sub systems of a planet. Whose got the keys? I think nobody. No one has hold of the wheel."

    KCL it's you who's out of touch with reality if you seriously think humans have that degree of collective control or influence over their environments. Such grandiosity is part of the endemic narcissism which I keep referring to. I don't believe in all this grandiose talk of ecological or anthropogenic climate change for one minute. I do believe in endemic narcissism though - it goes hand in hand with libertarianism, and individualism. Wtacb the geoerge Reisman videos (4 parts) as an exercise in identifying intensional spin and the problems with logical existential and universal quantification-in. He's just a male witch. Learn how to spot this behaviour, even in yourself ;-)

  • Comment number 27.

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]This one's a dampener for Kirsty next time she's tempted to get a bit shrill in support of Israel.

  • Comment number 28.

    Put another way, can anyone here envisage this behaviour in London, and if not, why not?

  • Comment number 29.

    #24 Ecolizzy

    Its to do with how systems fail. If you have a metal bar and stretch it it will have a certain tensile strength, in old money tons per square inch of it's cross section.

    Now get a rubber band and stretch it. Notice as you increase the tension, the band gets thinner. Not only are you increasing the tension by stretching it. That it also gets thinner.

    There is less cross sectional area so effectively the tons per square inch goes up, even without the increasing of the load.

    In the final stages of failure that slow even stretching suddenly turns in to a sudden failure.

    Think of a suspension bridge the road way supported by the hanging steel ropes. Think about putting too much load on it, Too much traffic or high wind.

    One support cable snaps. But now the load that snapped cable was supporting has to be distributed to all the other cables. They take more load causing another to snap. So more load has to be distributed to the rest. Causing more failures.

    Suddenly the failure that started slowly one cable snapping then another reaches a point when the failure of the system is sudden and catastophic.

    There were many factors which contributed to the economic collapse. Things that had been going on for years. But it collapsed on Monday 21st January 2008.

    Just like the cables on a bridge, life on earth is supported by many systems. Climate, soil, oceanic etc. Take one system out and the load spreads to others cauing sudden catastophic failure.

    Failure of a system is not a linear process that continues at the same rate it started, giving projections of 2050 etc. The rate increases as an exponential. Thus reducing the time scale to failure.

    The final failre in a metal after you have watched it stretch for a minute or two occurs at the speed of sound in that material.

    Watch a F1 expode into pieces when it crashes, or videos of bridge disaters. Or search for 'loss of Liberty ships'.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 30.


    Go to problems

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 31.

    #26 JJ

    "He's just a male witch. Learn how to spot this behaviour, even in yourself"

    And I'm a Celtic Shaman

    Obi-wan Kenobi

    Feel the Force. Luke

  • Comment number 32.

    "PEACE ACTIVIST" (#28 link)

    While we can still be 'peace activists' and 'hate haters', my point regarding endemic lack of maturity (philosophy) is made. (Anyone remember the vehement guy on the Today Program, a few years back, who declared: "Intolerance will not be tolerated"?)

    I don't know (yet) if the world is being manipulated by a 'select' few or if mankind is just inherently stupid. But if the former, I take my hat off to the perpetrators - job's a good'n!

  • Comment number 33.


    Oh JJ - all is lost methinks. As I posted recently, Miliband D said, in terms: "In Britain we vote for parties not people" AND KNEW NOT HOW IT DAMNED HIM! Out of the mouths of rosette stands - or should I say 'mouths of proxymorons' (a nod to Junkkmale). THAT, surely - with all that is implied, should have been headline news?

    Last night I saw the prattling classes (possibly Andrew Neil et al) discussing Obama's speech, as if it were HIS sentiment booming forth. How do they manage to be so daft?

    And STILL Brown is Prime Minister, even though he has put his mare in the cabinet and bought a fiddle (the ones already to hand were unplayable - even with many a string attached).

  • Comment number 34.


    H1N1 timeline and Roche share price.

  • Comment number 35.


    Barrie (#32) " point regarding endemic lack of maturity (philosophy) is made."

    It's a point you make it well. But given your intertest in Berne and P-A-C, look into the received wisdom (largely Jewish mind) on the etiology of NPD, in the terrible-twos especially and do so in conjunction with how our Liberal-Democacies have been shaped post WWII under US influence.

  • Comment number 36.

    In the Guardian:

    'A white supremacist who killed a security guard at a Holocaust memorial museum in the US has links to the British National party, which gained two MEPs in last week's European elections.

    Thousands of visitors fled the museum in Washington on Wednesday after James von Brunn opened fire, killing a security guard. In the gunfight that followed, the 88-year-old was shot, and is now in a critical condition in hospital.

    Yesterday it emerged that Von Brunn, a longtime antisemite, had attended meetings of the American Friends of the British National party (AFBNP), which was set up to raise funds from far-right activists in America.'

    Somehow its news but nobody will be in the least bit surprised.

    Look at #35 and Jaded_Jean and the "high end" of far right thinking.

  • Comment number 37.

    Newsnight yesterday I was suggesting a feature that looked at the utterly irrational far right hatred of Jews.

    In the same Guardian article on Von Bruun there is a point:

    ' "Heidi Beirich, director of research for the Southern Poverty Law Centre's intelligence project, said: "He thinks the Jews control the Federal Reserve, the banking system, that basically all Jews are evil. He's an extreme antisemite." '

    That will sound very familiar to readers of this page.

    As I said yesterday when you query some of the Cult of the Latter Day Haw Haws the best they come up with is Stalin ejected lots of "anarchists and Trotskyites" in the 1930's - who were Jews. Basically Hitler did not like them.

    Then they froth at the mouth and chew carpet in a manner of speaking.

  • Comment number 38.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 39.

    I assume Nick Griffin will be appalled (Guardian)

    'In 1983 Von Brunn was convicted of attempting to kidnap members of the US federal reserve board. At the time, police said he had wanted to take the members hostage because of high interest rates and the nation's economic difficulties. On the website, Von Brunn blames his six-year imprisonment on "a Jew judge" and "Negro jury"'

    The far right are just so well balanced.

    When you think back to the BNP Council/Euro advert where Griffin blandly said the BNP did not use technology to spy on peoples bins and took children on day trips.

    Those people who have children and voted BNP as a protest may soon start to question the wisdom of their decision.

  • Comment number 40.

    go1 : your a masterful hate merchant...and you don't see the irony.

    The fed reserve is actually a privatly owned bank run by long establised Jewish banking families; the standard issue financial cartels have done so for many yrs... er can i suggest a new keyword for you: reshearch!

  • Comment number 41.

    #29 Thank you very much Mr Lion, I can't call you Mr Celtic, too much like a football club! ; ) That was a very clear and simple explanation for me, I understand exactly what you mean. I do understand the principles of a suspension bridge failure, it is a good analogy of how you see the climate and eco systems panning out.

  • Comment number 42.

    thegangofone (#36) "Look at #35 and Jaded_Jean and the "high end" of far right thinking."

    Good idea. But did you understand #35?

    What about this? What might genes and brain sex-differences and behaviour have to do with human group competition/conflict in pursuit of resources/power?

    What was all this about post WWII do you think? Didn't these spooks do the same thing with similar 'blow-back' in the 1980s over in Afghanistan?

  • Comment number 43.

    Does everyone remember a spell a while back when a number of female celebrities were 'going commando'? After a brief interest, most people started asking them not to come out without their pants on. The same attention seeking behaviour may explain the much higher than proportionate salience which Israel (and Jews in general) get - i.e that this is narcissistic attention-seeking behaviour. In these media/entertainment dominated (and 'controlled' and liberal/anarchistic times, that's a very good way to increase one's income is it not?

    However, one still has to explain why this group?. Is it a natural (i.e. genetic) advantage which we should all be grateful for (like The Bible and Elvis Presley), or is it an anomaly ie. a pathology? How does one decide, and why have do many nations throughout history considered it the latter? Is it jealousy?

  • Comment number 44.

    #41 Ecolizzy

    It's Ker as in Kerrang

    not Sell as in freemarket economics

    Kell as in Kelly or Kell as in Cornflakes Kell-log

    Kell-tic. Hard K not soft C or as children tell me a kicking ker not a curly cer.

    When they decide to look at something they set the parameters of the inquiry. Such as Government inquiries. Take Hillsborough they only looked at deaths up to a cut off time of 3.15.

    Anything outside the artifically set parameters which could contribute to the inquiry or outcome/result is not considered.

    So in terms of climate migration, there would be factors. Even if you don't believe in climate change and it doesn't get hotter. More people with with greater potentential consumption per head for a finite supply of water will cause shortage on it's own, hence migration to places where there is some.

    rate of change tends to be an exponential figure x2 (squared) say x=2 then 2x2=4, if you add another exponential factor x2 (squared) you get x4 (fourth power) 2x2x2x2=16 4 times the magnitude.

    So if they give a figure of 2050, then one other factor could increase the rate 4 times as quick, so you get to a critical point 4 times quicker. 40 years from now becomes 10 years. That is by only adding one extra factor. Add hotter climate, shotage of water from increased consumption, then add fleeing from civil war, social breakdown due to conflict over the water. Then add pollution of the land so what little crops can't grow. Extinction of wildlife so no hunting. Disease which spreads easy because the people are malnurished and weak. etc etc

    Question: If you put some lillies on a large pond and each day they double in area.

    If after 150 days they cover half the pond.

    How many days do you have left before the whole pond is covered?

    I thank you for your knowledge of suspension bridges.

    Kell-tic Lion

  • Comment number 45.

    Not only are white supremacists in the US shooting up the place (Van Bruun) but in the UK we have:

    'A 41-year-old man from County Durham has been charged with possessing the poison ricin.

    Ian Davison was arrested last week by anti-terrorist police investigating suspected white supremacists.

    Mr Davison, of Myrtle Grove in Burnopfield, is due to appear before Westminster magistrates later accused of offences under the Terrorism Act'

    His son was also charged on a related matter - so the family link remains strong to the transmission of their racial bile.

    'The wording of the charge against Ian Davison is that he "acquired a quantity of the toxin ricin, explosives and other manuals and disseminated them to others and encouraged others to commit acts of terrorism"'

    We had the paedophile wannabe nail bomber and the Lowestoft "SS Manual" would be train station bomber last year and now this.

    On a separate matter the BNP now have MEP expenses up to circa 400,000 pounds.

    I do hope somebody will be keeping an eye on where the money goes.

  • Comment number 46.

    #42 Jaded_Jean

    "What might genes and brain sex-differences and behaviour have to do with human group competition/conflict in pursuit of resources/power?"

    Genetically you are 50% the same as an avacado pear and something like 99.8% the same as a chimpanzee.

    I don't have the slightest trouble believing that, though I think you tend to the latter rather than the former intellectually.

  • Comment number 47.

    #46 Go1

    "Genetically you are 50% the same as an avacado pear and something like 99.8% the same as a chimpanzee.

    I don't have the slightest trouble believing that, though I think you tend to the latter rather than the former intellectually."

    Second to last paragraph of this article. I will supply you the research behind this if you require,

    I am sure JJ will be most pleased with the compliment you have paid.

    Kell-tic Lion

    PS Please check your spelling of 'avocado'

  • Comment number 48.

    thegangofone (#46) "Genetically you are 50% the same as an avacado pear and something like 99.8% the same as a chimpanzee.

    I don't have the slightest trouble believing that, though I think you tend to the latter rather than the former intellectually"

    Presumably, as another human being, the same applies to you?

    That's called reflexivity.

    PS. Do have a look at the video off #28.

  • Comment number 49.

    Addendum (#48) All humans have CYP21 but just look into the difference which tiny mutations/polymorphisms make (see Prader scale).

  • Comment number 50.


    Hey Celtic! You forgot 30% BANANA.

  • Comment number 51.

    barrie (#50) I'm working on the assumption that thegangofone is a bit more banana than the rest of us. Does that make me a fruitist?

  • Comment number 52.


    Well I guess that has blown her chances of a crack at the PM job.

    "I am really sorry I regret what I have done. I was having a bad day and he upset me. I looked at the red button and just thought have some of that you git. Please accept my apologies for my thoughtless pre-emptive thermo nuclear launch, I hope you can forgive me."

    BLEARS - S
    BLEAR - E
    BLAR + I

    Kell-tic Lion

  • Comment number 53.

    Go1 - generally

    I think JJ is the expert here and will no doubt correct me if this is not so but...

    I have heard it said that it was people such as yourself who attacked the police van in which a suspected paedophile was being transported. (Much like the paediatrician who was attacked some time ago but that was merely a shortcoming in spelling ability.) You use this blog to give vent to YOUR unpleasant traits. You have a problem, you are like you imagine the people you are attacking to be - it is is PROJECTION. It is you who is the evil one here.

    (Aplogies to CL if my own spelling has slipped.)

  • Comment number 54.

    Gof1 #39 etc. "Those people who have children and voted BNP as a protest may soon start to question the wisdom of their decision."

    You seem ever so slightly bias in pointing out criminals who you, as a gang of one judge and jury, decide are in some way associated with BNP.

    I have several times advised you to tune in to BBC 'Crime Watch' and
    look at the mugshots displayed there of criminals wanted for serious crimes against innocent members of our society. Few of them look like BNP members or supporters, neither do they reflect proportionally the ethnic mix of our society. From this using even your limited powers of logic, voting BNP would be the wise move.

    For more enlightenment on 'woz apnin man' to our society, try a broader selection of research - such as the non-political Migration Watch website. You are so right in the genetic similarity of people with avocado pears and chimps: rats too, who become violent when overcrowded. Here's a simple question for you: apart from Migration Watch, what is the only political party that has been trying to highlight the effects on our society of mass immigration and the resulting overcrowding? Nothing to do with race, it's population explosion and alien cultures that cause the problems.

  • Comment number 55.

    Population of UK exploding...reports up and down the country of people of all ages spontaneously combusting.... alien cultures blamed. . . Klingons spotted in Tunbridge.

    Are you people for real?

  • Comment number 56.

    kashibeyaz (#55) "Population of UK exploding...reports up and down the country of people of all ages spontaneously combusting.... alien cultures blamed. . . Klingons spotted in Tunbridge.

    Are you people for real?"

    Sadly, yes.

    Go to the Home Office Research site and look for research reports on ethnicty and crime or go the Youth Justice Board and look their statistics on ethnicity and crime or the Home Affairs Select Committee report on young Black males and crime or the DfES (as it still is in the URL) and look for the Standards Site and ethnic minorities, achievement and Exclusion rates. Then go and look up birth rates by ethnic groups. Do the same in the USA (try the FBI and Federal Bureau of Prisons for sttaistics). Or look up the links provided to all of this in past posts to this blog over the last few years.

    Or you could just watch the news as has been suggested.

  • Comment number 57.

    Always a bit intrigued, especially in this day and age, what 'you people' actually describes, on its own, at least to have any descriptive value at all.

    But as I know people who have had their people call my people, I guess there might be something in it.

    Speaking personally, that is.

    Ain't tribalism grand?

  • Comment number 58.

    #57 JunkkMale

    Oh dear and this is a BBC blog

    A truth in the matter and for for Go1. I was invited to the meeting to set up the new generation of UK earth and climate models. By these people.

    All the pre literature said it was a 'Blue sky' programme. No restriction on how the models would be created.

    So off I went with my 20,000 words and my diagrams of the architecture of the systems of the the way I considered the Earth system could be modelled.

    All was going fine until the funder (DEFRA, they funded the NERC) decided and told us they wanted the model compatible with the previous generation of Hadley Centre models.

    Like going to a convention to discuss new methods of music recording and the person who is funding the do pulls out a vinyl 45 and says you can do anything you want as long as it looks like this.

    I stood up infront of 300 Go1's 1000's of scientists and told DEFRA I didn't think that was right by limiting the parameters of the project.

    Guess how many of the 300 top climate scientists in the UK and Europe got up after me, and told me I was wrong. One less than in Go1s team.

    Now in a complex dynamically interactive system every factor affects every other. So I fully agree CO2 will be part of it. But so will many other factors.

    Any way I better go and check my Vegemite and Tofu supplies. So Stella can fly Business Class on a 747 with some drawings of clothes and Paul can visit his girlfriend. Then go to one of those warm sunny beaches, as it's raining a bit here.

    Celtic Lion

    Surely The BBC shouldn't allow a family that owns a vegetarian sausage factory to appear on one of it's programmes and tell us all to not eat meat for one day.


BBC © 2014 The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.