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Friday 19 June 2009

Verity Murphy | 18:31 UK time, Friday, 19 June 2009

What's coming up on Newsnight and Newsnight Review:

From the web team:

Scotland Yard will launch an investigation into the alleged misuse of expenses by a small number of MPs and peers, the BBC has learned.

It follows a public outcry about the way many MPs had been using their second homes expenses.

Rather than abating that outcry has continued after parliament published MPs' expenses claims online yesterday.

The censoring of the documents sparked widespread criticism - but even with vast tracts of information blacked out still the revelations keep coming, particularly over petty cash payments, which do not require a receipt.

Eagle-eyed members of the Newsnight audience have been playing their part in flagging up things noteworthy items in the documents - and if you spot something interesting you can drop us a line via our website

We will have the latest news on that story tonight.

Also, we will be assessing a speech by Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in which Iran's supreme leader denied that the presidential result was rigged.

The ayatollah demanded that the demonstrations cease and warned that political leaders will be held responsible for any future violence.

What will Mir Hossein Mousavi's next move will be in the wake of that warning, and how will British officials respond to the ayatollah's denunciation of Britain as the "the most evil" of Iran's enemies?

Plus, tonight we will be hearing from former Guantanamo detainee Omar Deghayes.

Four years ago Newsnight established that Omar was in the US detention facility because of a case of mistaken identity.

Now he is free, he talks to Peter Marshall about his long years in the prison and the shifting political sands which mean his accusers have become his allies.

Here is Kirsty Wark with what is coming up on Newsnight Review:

And then on Review we look at how migration and displacement is reflected in culture - with Ekow Eshun, Marina Lewycka (author of A Brief History of Tractors in Ukrainian) and Peter Whittle.

Outcasts United is the moving true story of the fortunes of a disparate group of asylum seekers - who are settled in the small town of Clarkson, Atlanta.

An inspirational young woman, Luma Mufleh forges a group of teenage boys into a football team which changes the local people's perceptions of the incomers and vice versa.

At the beginning of the book the journalist author Warren St John quotes a moving passage from "The Middle of Everywhere", the book written by Mary Pipher about refugees who were settled in Nebraska:

"The refugee experience of dislocation, cultural bereavement confusion and constant change will soon be all of our experience. As the world becomes globalised, we'll all be searching for home."

That is the strong impression left by the extraordinary film La Forteresse.

The director Fernand Melgar spends 60 days inside a Swiss Detention Centre (the maximum time an asylum seeker can be held there) with incredible access to the professionals struggling to process families from all over the world.

Cockroach is Rawi Hage's novel about an Arab petty thief who is granted asylum in Canada and who is given the opportunity to redeem his past wrongs in a most dramatic way. Will he take it?

Sugar is a movie about another side of migration - the dream of young baseball players in the Dominican Republic to get signed in America, and earn their passport to a better life and sporting greatness.

Sugar is a star player, but when he gets to the US he encounters not just small kindnesses but the harsh realities of racism.

And what about displacement closer to home? Caravan is an award-winning play built on the testimonials of people all over England who were evacuated from their homes during the floods of 2007, to live in caravans for many months.

The audience (a maximum of eight people) enter a caravan much the same as the ones families were moved to, and experience drama close up as the actors take on the roles of flood victims young and old, rich and poor.

And Lionel Shriver has made a film for us arguing that we are only ever interested in one side of the migration story - and not on the impact of it on settled communities wherever they might be.

I hope you'll be watching, Kirsty


Page 1 of 2

  • Comment number 1.

    Friday, 19 June 2009

    Mr Goodwin .....

    Seemingly foreign climes no longer hold the appeal that they did, anything to do with the fluctuation of the pound(s) in the pension pot, perhaps? Yet it is proffered that Q .... a return to polite society .... unQ seems to be the motive for sacrificing a large percentage of the generous pension awarded. Question .... Answers on a postcard .... Is it fair to attribute the self ordained, self procreating upper echelon with the description polite society?

    Redaction 1 .....

    Are HM Forces now to be issued with revolutionary design DPM kit, whereby our boyzngirls will be invisible in all scenarios? Namely all equipment will now be black. After all, it does seem to cover up everything.

    Redaction 2 .....

    Hear no evil, See no evil .......but what have I done? It is said, primarily by prisoners, that there are no guilty people being held at HM pleasure. Constant denial by near all Honourable Members would suggest that in their eyes - still - there are no guilty people in two other institutions that you might be able to name.

    Redaction 3 ....

    Industry, commerce et al have to keep all records for a minimum of six years, yet the obscured expenses claims of Honourable Members are only being made available for the last four years?

    ACAs .....

    .... is a form of reducing the words Additional Costs Allowances. Looking in a dictionary of abbreviations for an ink stroke effort saving term for Honourable Members of Parliament only provided HMP. Life can truly be so full of irony.

    HMPs .....

    As many as 50 HMPs, currently being kept at the GBPs pleasure sic, are expected to stand down at the next General Election ( Please suppress your desire for shouting More! or Bravo ) At a guesstimated average of 70k per HMP in re-location allowances et al how many of the GBP would be able to gain access to decent NHS dental treatment.? Answers on a postcard please to 10 Downing Street.

    The Speaker of the House .....

    Q .....has virtually no powers .... unQ So why all the media coverage, and what actual change will he stroke she effect upon the HoC?

    PPPCs .....

    AKA Parachuted PPC.

    Applications invited for forthcoming Multiple Vacancies. Qualifications required: Televisual ,( Essential.) Experience of writing fiction, ( Essential.). Knowledge of Norse and Anglo-saxon, (Desirable.). Experience and knowledge of politics. (Advantageous.) Basic understanding of Accounts Packages. ( Not required.) Completed Applications on the back of a postage stamp please. Expenditure on said stamp, and multiples thereof, will be fully reimbursed upon appointment.

    Employment longevity .....

    Recession Management versus Recession Employees equals Faust versus the powerless.

    Financial Advisors .....

    ..... currently promoting share purchases in petroleum production companies as they are keeping wage costs in check whilst doing their best to achieve best price for available output. Short to medium investment return advised as excellent.

    Ms Blears .....

    .... wants to get back to Q .... bread and butter politics .... unQ. Hopefully whilst keeping expenditure within HMPs monthly Food Allowances limits?

    Mr Davis .....

    versus Mr Straw. (Today, today. sic) Making the news or investigating it? .... Beware! Reporters League Division Two looming Mr Davis.

    Evil UK .....

    Will all Iranians - or, to be more more hip, Persians - now be recalled back to Iran? And will they go?

    Ms Toynbee .....

    An amnesty for illegal immigrants will do absolutely nothing to solve the problem of 21st Century Slavery. However, and undoubtedly, it will increase the oft repeated but still ignored ratio of incomes of executive versus average employee i.e. 75 to 1. and it will substantially increase the number of slaves.

    Redaction 4 .....

    Q .... they (HMPs) can do pretty much as they want .... unQ. And they still do!

    Q .... whos going to prosecute them? unQ. Notably only one hari kiri - allowing the decent thing, a democratic by-election - to date.

    Health and Safety for schools ....

    Dont blame the schools, teachers or HMG. Blame parents, the compensation culture and Insurance companies.

    Blame culture ....

    It is always someone else's fault. (Even more entrenched than the Westminster Defence!)

    The two French students suffered because individuals, i.e. people on the ground, did not do their jobs. Period. The social worker directly supervising Victoria Climbie being a classic case in point.

    Iraq Enquiry .....

    Mr Brown announces same as being in camera ..... howling from the GBP (?????? Actually the megaphone laden bleateratti, whom claim to represent the GBP.) and he, Mr Brown, changes his mind. Its then called a u-turn. Perhaps democracy in action would be a better description?

    Repayments .....

    Career saver, admission of guilt, contrition, fear, shame, integrity, arrogance, reaction to public outrage, alibi, conscience, a gamble, mortgage insurance? It doesnt matter does it? Anything they pay back will be covered by their Resettlement Allowances in spades. How many will ask for their tax assessment to be recalculated? Answers on an AO size sheet please to .....

    Transparency .....

    Does anyone, I say again anyone, have any concrete proof that anyone at the BBC - other than the moderators - actually reads these posts? (Big tick here to the Politics Show!)

    Police investigations .....

    Please form an orderly queue for vacant Social Housing.

    ACAs 2 ......

    Can any poster come up with something an HMP uses, in pursuance of his duties, that - including VAT presumably - costs exactly 1000 pounds? Answers on an FOI reply form to ....

    Mr Cameron .....

    Q ...the next set ....unQ ..... Pointless drivel!

    This Week Programme .....

    Thoughts on guests suitability ..... Perhaps best redacted! (Libel laws and all that, sorry - repayment in the post!)

    Mr Khamenei .....

    With luck those promoted, ordained or funded to the position of true power may only have one chance to do something of genuine benefit to that which we call history - although Mr Obama may yet buck the trend - however some still manage to blow it.

    Is it not the case that some very, very recent oration is reminiscent of late night TV .... More of the same and, besides, its all been heard before? Or perhaps it is like some party political statements, devoid of commitment!

  • Comment number 2.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 3.


    "how will British officials respond to the ayatollah's denunciation of Britain as the "the most evil" of Iran's enemies?"

    How dare Ayatollah Ali Khamenei say such a thing about HMG!! Only the Telegraph is allowed to say such things! HMG doesn't interfere in other people's countries. Ask the USA, Iraq, Afghanistan.

  • Comment number 4.

    ....Britain as the "the most evil" of Iran's enemies? ...

    given the makeup of the FO under new labour and the recent appointments including the deputy of the labour friends of israel its hardly surprising they see the uk in that way?

    the uk policy is biased? its not a secret.

  • Comment number 5.

    eye forgot wot i said refer that

  • Comment number 6.

    Social Engines. Is that called A Bayonet

    Knot aCCORDing 2 the Beeb (tax suckers muney)

  • Comment number 7.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 8.

    Newsnight Review: sounds like a batch of carefully selected items to soften the hearts and minds of anti-immigration posters like myself.
    I'll have a box of tissues available, just in case there is nothing on other channels less patronising or more balanced.

  • Comment number 9.

    blank, blank,blank and yet more blanks, do MP's think they can get away with this charade? Just listening to Tessa Jowel on R4's 'Any Questions' with her usual long winded procrastinations that drive you up the wall the sooner the Plod gets it's act together the better our democratic system will be served. Do not be surprised if they wriggle out of it as there is an awful lot to hide over the run up to the Iraq war and the gravy train that is the expenses scandal can still take a few scalps but we all know the same old faces doing the same old jobs will still be there, t'was ever thus...

  • Comment number 10.

    indignantindegene (#8) "Newsnight Review: sounds like a batch of carefully selected items to soften the hearts and minds of anti-immigration posters like myself."

    I hope you're not worried about being opposed to immigration. The birth-rates elsewhere in Europe are so low that they have it worse than we do (I blame all that post-war denazification propaganda). Flooding the country from elsewhere in the world is not fair. It will just drive the birth-rate here even lower, or further skew it dysgenically, I fear. This birth-dearth worryingly covaries with liberal-democracy. When Sachs (Jewish) said we were 'bursting at the seams' in his BBC lecture, he was telling us porky pies, or else he deludedly thinks of himself as a member fo a very inclusive family! Mind you, he did help wreck Russia...

    Why do we bother electing a government? ....many don't anymore :-(

  • Comment number 11.

    A grown-up debate? Or, why reason and science doen't tend to matter much.

  • Comment number 12.

    #11b doen't = a neolgism:- half way between don't and doesn't I suspect aka a typo ;-)

    In this great global community love-in which allegedly includes our good G20 friends Russia and China, is there any chance of getting a spokesperson on tonight from either of the latter in order to let us know whether they too think HMG is 'evil' (or not)?

  • Comment number 13.

    Just heard on NN. that Gordon, has recently admitted to the Guardian, that he had recently contemplated moving on to be a teacher or similar. I'm sure I also heard that as chancellor he knew nothing about the bank's dodgy investment products... World's best chancellor??
    Didn't I say months ago that he was simply the Silver Surfer riding the crest of a wave of economic prosperity, and having little or no influence either way. Waves have disappeared and now the tide is going out, Mr Brown with it.
    Nice to see the party's are going to be more in touch with the public with future policy... A bit like my Mandate Party 'me tinks' :o)

  • Comment number 14.

    Bringing Reza Pahlavi to comment on the Iranian situation is like bringing Pinochet's son to comment on the Chilean situation. The Shah's son has about as much legitimacy as Jaqui Smith has on expenses.

    Apart from that, I'm still waiting to see any evidence that suggests or even implies that Ahmadinejad didn't win the elections fair and square. I know that many media people are desperate for a pro-capitalist, pro-MTV government to come to power in Iran, but it feels like there's too much wishful thinking on the part of both the rich Iranians demonstrating, and the Western media people. Can you please get over what you'd wish to happen, and what is really happening?

  • Comment number 15.

    Oh for goodness sake! I'm not a racist and I won't even go into the old cliche of "my best friends are black" argument - suffice to say I have a mixture. However I really cannot believe the nonsense tonight on Newsnight Review re immigration/migration. There appears to be so much sensitivity about ensuring that we cover issues about other ethnicities, other cultures, other sexual persuasions (I'm gay so you can't get me on that one) that there simply isn't any room anymore for a film or a book or a play that covers a White Anglo Saxon straight man's perspective.

    Do publishers/executive producers and in particular producers on shows like Newsnight Review not realise that there is a market out there?

    Whilst I appreciate that we had centuries of WASP culture rammed down our throats in literature, the arts and other areas I think the worrying trend is now to find that one basically cannot find a book/film reflecting the majority of this country's population and their experiences.

    We've had gay and black Cabinet Ministers now. The church is very diverse. The Royal Family is perhaps the last bastion that hasn't (we assume) been exposed yet to either of the above examples of "otherness".

    Oh and for the record my black, asian, gay and straight friends are almost all of the same opinion. Those of a different ethnicity are fed up of being over-represented as they know the reality that results. This is that the more the media and others do this the more the likes of the BNP are able to use this as examples to their potential voters. My gay friends similarly get fed up of being portrayed as camp.

    Tonight we had a great example of all three ridiculous generalisations in Hotel Babylon. The black gay desk clerk is as camp as the proverbial row of tents. The Indian "arranged" marriage was beyond cliche with all the Bollywood dancing happening as per the movies at the drop of a hat. The WASPS were either portrayed as snobs, sexual addicts or money obsessed. Any chance of some "reality"?

    Oh and while we are about it Eastenders hasn't been "real" for years portraying no area of London that is recognisable to any person who has ever been there. I know it's entertainment but seriously get some facts straight. Either a) everyone in the East End is a multimillionaire - they'd need to be to have 5 bed mansions to house an entire Slater clan b) they all have liver disease from being in the pub everyday c) they don't own washing machines or d) the entire programme is a farce.

    Time for a rethink BBC.

  • Comment number 16.

    What a joke Michael Crick can be.
    What is about him that he thinks he is being clever?

    The cheap jibe about Gordon Brown not knowing what
    was happening in the sub prime market.

    No many in the city seem to have know what was happening.
    As for the ones who did some could not spill the truth for fear
    of losing their jobs.

    At times I think Crick thnks he is more important than the story he
    is covering.

    Time he travelled a bit more beyond the Westminster District line.

    I don't expect you will publish this.
    BBC does not like its staff being criticised but is
    quite happy for the staff to make crass comments about others.

    Ron Taylor

  • Comment number 17.

    It's getting pretty bad when some Iranian Ayatollah starts condemning our Politicians and Parliament as being "Swamped in an ocean of corruption" and you find yourself agreeing with him. Listening to Brown pontificating about Iranian Police violence when his Police behave in the same way just makes it worse, especially when you think of the electoral fraud that has gone on over here recently. It really is quite embarrasing having such people perceived as speaking on our behalf. I met some Germans the other day and they thought it was highly amusing that we are governed by an "Al Capone Government" as they gleefully put it.

    Looks like the Lib Dems might be in trouble as well. Good. They deserve to be put out of business after the way they betrayed us on the EU Referendum. It really is getting to the stage where it would be best just to sack every single sitting MP and start again. At least we may get some credibility back that way. The thought of them all milking the system for another year whilst dreaming up yet more repressive laws to inflict upon us is truly obscene.

  • Comment number 18.

    Please Please JJ Dont mention skinner/her 2 me that/it/hymn does not deserve A footnote or anything else

    watch me eat my own ed

    except i wont not on the account of that, that that isint

    clear as mudd muddy water/s so very good

  • Comment number 19.

    Hack the Hackers

    glad 2 b skint

    bride n waiting waiting 2 b hacked hack in 2 my debt (theres a few about isnt there Auntee)

    Lend me a billion quid 2 hack the Hackers (easy init)

  • Comment number 20.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 21.

    which mod do we have 2day


  • Comment number 22.

    Gordon Brown interview: 'It's a strange life, really'

    "To be honest, you could walk away from all of this tomorrow ... And it would probably be good for my children."

    Reading this, I was leaping to the 'Save The Gord's Children Fund' with a major contribution to help with his latest dithering, but then I read this... 'He wants to stay as prime minister, but longs to get out of No 10, govern from a train, become a teacher.

    For the sake of my two's education, maybe it's better he stays where he is then. Plus I do like traveling in trains and would hate to have steer clear for my own safety.

  • Comment number 23.

    dAllan169 (#18,#19) You've slipped again. You'll just end up creating a reputation like thegangofone if you persist with word-salad.

    Take barriesingleton as a model for good writing.

  • Comment number 24.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 25.

    ENDORSING #17 (Simon_987)

    I could not agree more. Our politicians STILL, in the face of all this fool/knave connivance/complicity, appear in the media and talk in OVERT OBFUSCATION.

    This is the Westminster ethos. It underpins and shouts to Britain and the wider world (to quote the trite John Major) "I've got it - I like it - and I'm going to keep it."

    We know, that they know, that we know, etc. AND THERE IS NOT A DAMNED THING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. We need a Champion, and media support.


  • Comment number 26.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 27.


    Ranging from the bloke next to me in the queue, who is a lot taller, to the crowd of dockworkers I wandered into when lost in Chicago, many years ago, I notice difference.
    I am most comfortable among - well - me. I must, if I am honest, admit to being drawn to attractive people (diluted by unattractive personality) with the precise reverse effect applying also .

    Do we need retraining institutions for people like me? Should my disgraceful tendencies be 'stamped out' by my betters (who presumably run the institution)?

    It would seem I am 'differencist'. Let him who is without differencism cast the first 'absolute' stone.

    I even prefer to read some posters more than others! HOW DISGRACEFULLY DIFFERENCIST CAN I GET? We need a Differencism Czar! Has Mandy got room in his portfolio?

  • Comment number 28.


    barrie (#27) "Do we need retraining institutions for people like me? Should my disgraceful tendencies be 'stamped out' by my betters (who presumably run the institution)?"

    To the best of my knowledge, retraining does not work as our behaviours are the deterministic expression of the little protein fsctories in all our cells which we call genes. These help to synethesise our transmitters, receptors and transporters which give expression to our rates of behaviours. It's these which determine our pushes and pulls. It's these which account for who we choose to mate with and who we do not. All we can do is learn to recognise our atrractions and repulsions. Strainght people do not like gay people else they too would be gay people. The rest is just muddled language and self-deception.

    Unfortunately, as you say, we are indeed apes confused by language. Yet we don't seem to get any good scientists on Newsnight Review. Good scientists are generally pretty inarticulate because that's how the science is. It's hard work and has holes in it, so their sentenecs reflect this. This does not make good copy or TV, so they avoid it and producers avoid them. Instead you get populists who misrepresent facts because they are at heart performers not scientists. We don't get many scientists on TV anymore. Is that because most of our higher education is feminized these days? Females like/crave being on TV and in front of cameras/mirrors. They like pulling...It's in a female's genes ;-)

  • Comment number 29.

    OBTUSE ANGLE (#28)

    Behave JJ. You know I meant a Guantanamous institution where 'they' would frighten or derange me into a state of compliance - or jelly.

    More importantly, I have watched the whole of your link at Post 36 (Thursday 18th) and found it highly illuminating and thought-provoking.
    I was particularly struck by repeated use of the term 'CHOSENNESS'. That must be about as intensional as it gets? 'We' Christians have our trump card in Jesus, but does it trump chosenness? Perhaps Newsnight could put that to some 'panel'. I need a laugh.

  • Comment number 30.

    #28 JJ

    Lawyers v Engineers

    The F1 argument is very interesting. The controllers (the lawyers) don't want the manufacturers to eh, manufacture cars and engines. The lawyers want cloned cars with identical engines, the difference being only the superstar drivers. (very simple explanation)

    The manufacturers (the engineers) don't want to be told they are no longer wanted. They still want to do what they do. Design and make things.

    So the engineers have said if don't want us we will take our cars that we have built and we will race them against each other without you.

    The lawyers then become angry and say if you take your cars and race them against each other without us we will take legal action and take you to court and sue you for £ 1 billion.

    The lawyers say you must race our way. You can have £40 million to run your entire team build your cars and pay all your engineers. Much clattering of computers, scientific calculators and slide rules as equations are differentiated, integration and extrapolated. That is less than one half of a Manchester United footballer, the engineers discover.

    The lawyers forgot that in the beginning when the engineers first built their cars and raced them against each other there were no lawyers. And now the engineers don't want them again.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 31.

    #17 Simon 987

    "It's getting pretty bad when some Iranian Ayatollah starts condemning our Politicians and Parliament as being "Swamped in an ocean of corruption" and you find yourself agreeing with him. Listening to Brown pontificating about Iranian Police violence when his Police behave in the same way just makes it worse, especially when you think of the electoral fraud that has gone on over here recently. It really is quite embarrasing having such people perceived as speaking on our behalf. I met some Germans the other day and they thought it was highly amusing that we are governed by an "Al Capone Government" as they gleefully put it."

    Just though I would post that bit here. No particular reason other than so I can read it again.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 32.

    PM 'I could quit'

    hardly the statement of someone hungry to govern for another term? after 12 years in high office he is bound to be burnt out? everyone is mortal.

    Oil Strike

    foreign multinationals determine if the lights go out in the uk? who believes the market is the best determiner of public good?


    given there is an oil glut why is the oil price still rising? the so called 'natural' consequence of market forces? or speculators just pushing up prices because they can make money out it? and so inflict and extract wealth from ordinary people who have no choice but to pay artificial prices? also goes for gas.

    NN and the son of shah

    so NN interpret the events in iran as iranians wanting the shah dynasty back? which is why they drag up the son of shah? someone has lost the plot. or maybe that is the plot? [again].

  • Comment number 33.

    JJ your latset/latext Spanking I enjoyed very much.

    easy for you and Barrie you NO and enjoy theese Big words I dont.

    Pass me the Dicton (with Sal ADD) (I still LUV U)

  • Comment number 34.

    RUGG Dont Hide things Under The WIG (syR.I.P.)

    Rug BE is ON/OFF (switch 2 ) pass me the funny shaped BALL

  • Comment number 35.

    Brown in the Guardian ' also said he had been under heavy pressure to deregulate further, and acknowledged that he "didn't know a lot about" banks buying up sub-prime mortgages during his period as chancellor.'

    Is that not worth a special by Paul Mason?

    There are no really major moves to regulation and the BoE are going to have to fight for more powers. But this cheery chappy happily confesses (though vaguely as is his nature) he had no idea what was going on and was not picking up on concerns about the risks.

    Why won't we have the same problems again in the future?

    So far as I know we still don't know where all of the toxic assets are nor their value. Credit Default Swaps are still an instrument that could take us down.

    If Brown goes on to teach lets hope its not at the LSE.

  • Comment number 36.

    Is it clear whether or not the BNP have infiltrated Unite the Union, I believe, involved in the strike actions in Lincolnshire?

  • Comment number 37.

    #28 Jaded_Jean

    'To the best of my knowledge, retraining does not work as our behaviours are the deterministic expression of the little protein fsctories in all our cells which we call genes."

    Science shows that there is greater genetic variation within a race than between races and as such there is no basis for your race "realism".

    You can still catch the Incredible Human Journey and pay attention to the last episode where Dr. Roberts points out that there is very little difference between the races, mostly its just adaptations to climate.

    Many of the posters who frequent this page say they are not Nazis.

    Often they will reveal a "reverence" for Hitler; racially based policies; "agnosticism" on the Holocaust; they would swap democracy for National Socialism; they want a planned economy Hitler style and so on.

    They usually demand more coverage for the BNP - but often say they are not the BNP.

    The BNP are "not a Nazi party" according to one of their spokespeople they are a "modern progressive party". That is very descriptive and does not reveal the cult like attitude to Hitler.

    Von Bruun in the US who was associated with American Friends of the BNP and holds very similar views to the posters on this page killed a security guard at a Holocaust memorial in the US. Previously convicted for trying to kidnap members of the Fed.

    At least Griffin only shoots himself - in the eye, via a shotgun cartridge in a fire.

    Very rational people.

  • Comment number 38.

    #31 KingCelticLion

    Did you contact the police to see if you could offer some useful advice and knowledge on the intimidation of Romanian women in Belfast?

    You know about far right racial views (and they were Romany who would have been put in the camps by the Nazis); you have been to Belfast and there probably aren't that many Nazi type people in Belfast so you many know the culprits; you speak East European languages.

    Also when you aren't working the fields and speaking in many languages - probably simultaneously - you have worked on top secret projects. You told the police about the Tay flooding.


    I seem to recall your comment on the beating of women with children was to reference "irony" in McGuiness condemning the brutality.

    You have a physique like Tyson and did some Ju-Jitsu huh.

  • Comment number 39.


    "Credit Default Swaps are still an instrument that could take us down."

    Important point !

    Paul can you inform us what happening on this front?

    Soros is clear for the experts:

    from what I can understand its scary.

    Nos 27

    Socrates had a "beauty contest" with his friend Alcidiades one was
    famously ugly the other famously handsome. It can be found in a work
    by Anthony Gottlieb just like you, well worth a read.

    The beeb is shamefully ageist with its female presenters. I hope more of
    the over 50's start to ware tight skirts - poke a finger in aunties eye I'll certainly speak to their attractiveness !

    dAllen, your word salad is a style of your own but Barrie really is worth a study and he does it for free.

    Nos38 LOL

  • Comment number 40.

    How can you have the son of the former Shah in for his views of the demonstrations against the elections and sit with a straight face while he says that the Iranians are fighting for freedom and their rights? This is the son of the Shah, the Shah that was kicked out of power twice, once restored by the United States and Britain, and the second time thrown out by the largest demonstrations ever seen in the history of the Middle East.

    If anyone was least able to talk about 'the Iranian people' its this son of a dictator who has spent his life in the splendid suburbs of America, living off his father's looted Iranian funds, as a sweetheart for anti-Iranian lobbies and neo-cons.

    When was the last time he was in Iran? Has he indeed, ever been there?

    The fact that you interviewed him and put not a single question on this startling, remarkable and curious irony shows how disconnected you in fact are from the majoity of Iranians who despise him and support Khameniei and Ahmadinejad.

    John Simpson should also stop hanging around with the youths organising demonstrations in the city and start interviewing and observing Iran. Why doesn't he leave Tehran's one suburb and travel around to the places that to support the election results or even pay a visit to other large cities and the countryside.

    Is it any wonder you have the restrictions you do in Iran and that you face signal jamming when you report with such blatant and shameless bias?

  • Comment number 41.

    dAllan169 (#33) "easy for you and Barrie you NO and enjoy theese Big words I dont."

    You make that so for convenience. In fact it's very difficult (as you can see by my mistakes) and I'm suggesting that you don't struggle as others do, imaging it to be easy for others for your convenience. You see the mistakes I make and try to correct, and yet you appear to make mistakes on purpose, which hurt others, as they have to do the work you didn't to make sense of them. Think of others having do do corrective work when you write. Barrie does, 'naturally'. We can't easily see these private behaviours, but they're there nonetheless.

  • Comment number 42.


    Lucius_thegreat (#40) "Is it any wonder you have the restrictions you do in Iran and that you face signal jamming when you report with such blatant and shameless bias?"

    It makes me angry watching it so it's no surprise that the Iranian government complained. This, like Gaza early in the year does Israel's case no good. But then....maybe, just maybe, the BBC is being rather clever in its obvious reporting bias?

    As to HMG, are they making naked capitaism and spin so ugly so that we clamour for a truly socialist command economy like that after WWII as our only salvation?

  • Comment number 43.

    This is a nice review. Thanks for sharing.

    sell ebooks

  • Comment number 44.


    ? can any of us now advertise here ?

  • Comment number 45.

    KingCelticLion (#44) "can any of us now advertise here ?"

    Are you getting worried 'she' might be competition? ;-)

  • Comment number 46.

    #45 JJ

    Only in a public service, one-world-but-not-market-capitalism sort of way.

  • Comment number 47.

    ..and you can still in a one world scenario have bio or eco centric regionalism. Which you may call States.

  • Comment number 48.

    YES YES JJ Slaughter me anytime you like.



  • Comment number 49.


    when you understand the uk is under neocon occupation then it helps to see why we get the promotion of such nonsense in the uk.

    also the uk education system is rather poor and omits embarrassing uk history so there is a great deal of ignorance.

    Given NN is supposed to be the most intelligent news programme on the bbc one must conclude its a case of the former rather than the latter?

  • Comment number 50.


  • Comment number 51.


    Hi streetphotobeing! I can find references to the beauty contest but not chapter and verse. If you know where it is to be found on the web, see if you can sneak directions past the Blogdog please. I would like to follow your lead.

    I was not aware that I deliver word-salad. Clearly I am more damaged than I know! (:o) However WORD GARNISH, where word/s is/are cut and arranged to tastefully(?) adorn an otherwise staid platter; surely this is an application INVITED by the nature of English itself?

    I do, of course, admit that excess garnish becomes indistinguishable from a poor salad! If I am found to have broken the rules, I will say sorry and return all abused words. That should fix it.

  • Comment number 52.

    when its too late now the FO speaks up?

    if you are ever taken hostage ask the French to get you out. They have a much better track record.

  • Comment number 53.

    Nos 51

    At the moment dAllen is on garnish but have hope for a juicy Oscar Tschirky Maître d' job which is where your at.

    The book is called Socrates by Anthony Gottlieb published by Phoenix 1997

    A little pix to tickle ones thirst :

    Jean-Baptiste Regnault (1790 about I think)

    Socrates dragging Alcibiades from the Embrace of Sensual Pleasure

  • Comment number 54.

    F and O means diffeRANT things 2 diffeRent folk/salad/dress/sense

    sort of

  • Comment number 55.

    Nos 39

    Correction its was Critobulous not Alcibiades with whom Socrates had the "beauty contest" that will teach me not to trust my memory and check references.

  • Comment number 56.

    Dont UPset/down the the ApLle Cart

    There may B e apples in IT

  • Comment number 57.

    #39 streetphotobeing

    The beeb is shamefully ageist with its female presenters. I hope more of the over 50's start to ware tight skirts - poke a finger in aunties eye I'll certainly speak to their attractiveness !

    I agree with you there! I wrote and told them so with the sacking(?) of all the older female presenters on Countryfile.

  • Comment number 58.

    Keep The Nose/Noise Down I am Deaf


  • Comment number 59.

    SOCRATES ET AL (#55)

    So - I read about the ultimate Alkie, only to find I should be reading about Critobulous. No matter - I have found some words, and if true, they lead me to downgrade Socrates for using his debating skill to promulgate tosh. Just because a flared nose and bulging eyes MIGHT function to advantage (which I doubt) does not make the physically beautiful. They might classify as 'elegant' in its broadest sense perhaps.

    Genetic tidiness is projected outward to the world as beauty. Coupling follows and nature is served. i am all for serving nature. (:o)

  • Comment number 60.

    BeWARe of Greeks Bareing Gifts it sounds/smells liken double dutch to them (butt them and them dont Mean anything)

  • Comment number 61.

    Whats this twitter stuff you are all talking about?

  • Comment number 62.

    Thank heavens, when we might be still distracted by high tax, low rent MPs, sleazy Speakers and their antics, in this zero-personality, 'it's all about the policies' age we have Dear Leader on hand to emote in the Guardian (Wot... no Mirror? Kevin Maguire finding a glimmer of integrity as Polly T starts to regret the dissent?) and take our mind off... 'things'.

    And who better in complement than the BBC to round up and circle the wagons to dominate the airwaves in empathy with... a coven of Guardian journos!

  • Comment number 63.

    Dear Jack Jack

  • Comment number 64.

    THE DOUBLE ZEROS OF POLITICS (Overt Obfuscators)

    And STILL the game continues within the lie. The key to good management of a country is the INTEGRITY OF EACH INDIVIDUAL MP not a list of plastic policies and a buch of whipped ciphers.

    The stupidity of voters, which underpins the Westminster ethos, will be hard to overcome, but if we can establish MPs of integrity, they will be less moved to manipulate dumb voters - perhaps.

    As an illustration of the Double Zero politician, today Clegg told Andrew Marr that the Lib Dems can, with honour, keep the 'proceeds of crime' money, because they carried out due dilligence and didn't know. While money is more valuable than integrity to our 'leaders', we will continue to decline.

  • Comment number 65.


    This comment probably belongs on Paul Mason's blog, but there was an interesting special on BBC last night highlighting how the student rebellion in 1989 wasn't a call for Western democracy but for the Communist Party to take firm measures against corruption of the party resulting from Deng Xiaoping's hasty Glasnost/Perestroika economic reforms. The 'hardliners' and students' concern was that the NEP like initiaves encouraged by Deng Xiaoping via the SEZs and other initiatives would undermine socialism. Deng Xiaoping's earlier line that flies always come in when one opens the windows but that one can always kill the flies later should be given some thought as to what may really be going on.

  • Comment number 66.


    BBC NEWS is still showing grainy/pixelated amateur footage of events in Iran whereby young men on the streets of Tehran have are taking to mimimg bowling/cricket to the obvious enjoyment of the local Ninja-police who respond in kind to this enthusiastic show of sporting spirit in the wake of the recent elections by lobbing back the odd mobile smoke machine just to keep the party spirit going.

    They obviously don't quite do it the way we do things here. When lads in N Ireland did that, some got shot by paratroopers, In Greece a few months ago, we saw similar scenes to those in Tehran, and more recently, truculent G20 protestors got slapped around the legs with a baton or cuffed by our Ninja.

    It must be a cultural isolation thing?

  • Comment number 67.

    Observer: '"We have a job on our hands now persuading an entire generation that grew up looking up to men who took up arms for the loyalist cause that violence is not the answer," one senior UDA member told the Observer yesterday. "I don't believe this gang behind these latest attacks are that well organised, but the danger from now on is that these teenagers and young people could be manipulated and used by these neo-Nazi groups who are trying to organise in Ulster."'

    Its bad news and good news then.

    The good news is that if Griffin shot himself in the eye with a shotgun cartridge in a fire he is pretty sure to shoot himself in the foot at some point.

    Still it could be the UBPP - alleged to be a break away faction of the BNP.

    Meanwhile Von Bruun in the US (American Friend of the BNP) who killed a security guard at a Holocaust Memorial is probably being prepared for trial and questioned about his activities and links.

    He holds very similar views to the Cult of the Latter Day Haw Haws who post on here.

    By the way the text sent to the Roma used "poetry".

    Its too much that violence should be used in a region so scarred by strife for so long and so deserving of peace - no to far right poetry.

  • Comment number 68.

    #64 barriesingleton
    "While money is more valuable than integrity to our 'leaders', we will continue to decline. "

    There are those that would replace democracy with fascism, people who are Holocaust Agnostics, race realists, want Hitler style planned economies and eugenics.

    A leader or a feuhrer?

    Lectures from the far right carry little weight.

  • Comment number 69.

    IoS: 'A public appearance by Mr Blair before the Chilcot inquiry would also damage his ambitions of becoming EU president, a role that needs the support of European countries that opposed the war.'

    Whereas a letter showing Blair knew a lot more about torture going on than he admitted publicly would be a boost?

  • Comment number 70.


    thegangofone (#37) "Dr. Roberts points out that there is very little difference between the races, mostly its just adaptations to climate."

    So how do you and Dr Roberts explain all of the interminable ethnic and political strife which we see between all these people who are allegedly basically all the same? Perhaps by an appeal to non-physical reality?

    Now that you've been 'enlightened' by this piece of BBC propaganda, will you be turning over a new leaf and extending your love and best wishes to all BNP members who you obviously have so much more in common with than you ever realised?

  • Comment number 71.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 72.


    So the BBC permanent correspondent in Iran has been asked to leave. I can't say I'm at all surprised having heard him and other BBC reporters seemingly looking for trouble. The scenes of 'young men' behaving like yobs in Tehran are outrageous. It shouldn't be allowed - anywhere ;-)

    Having watched Paul Mason's coverage of chlorine pollution in China I won't be surprised if he isn't asked back (which would be a great pity as he's a good journalist). What BBC correspondents should be reporting on is what works in Iran and China (and elsewhere), not what doesn't. One can always find disgruntled people. What's worth reporting are models of good practice, i.e what works well.

  • Comment number 73.


    thegagofone (#68) "want Hitler style planned economies and eugenics."

    All rational people practice eugenics. It means 'good breeding'. Jews have always practiced it, and one of the reasons why so many anti-eugenicists have been Jewish is because they don't want competition from other groups. Do you not realise this?

    Similarly, those anti planned economies are anti-statists i.e subversives/anarchists. See aliens and Russian Revolution

    Incidentally, one of the reasons why hate comes about is because sometimes people do hateful things. One of the reasons why Parliament was concerned about anti-semitism in the UK around 1917-1920 or so was because Germany had, in 1917, sent Jewish Bolsheviks into Russia to remove the Tsar. Given the Tsar was on Britain's side against the Germans, this meant that the Germans could then move troops from the East to Western front and kill more British soldiers. The White Russians (funded by Britain) did kill lots of Jews as a consequence (i.e because of their role in the revolution). Our Parliament did not want the Jewish nature of the revolution to be made more obvious to the British people in order to prevent retaliation agajnst Jews in London etc for the loss of British men on the Western Front. Unfortunately, as anyone will see if they study what was really happening (see photos in books by people like Martin Gilbert), Jews in the East End of London were campaigning on behalf of Jews in Eastern Europe! It is one thing not to incite violence and another to accurately report the facts/history.

    You might like to ponder on the idea that behaviour is largely inherited not learned and that this is why history repeats itself.

  • Comment number 74.


    thegangofone (#37) "there is very little difference between the races, mostly its just adaptations to climate."

    Do you not think Natural Selection for the skills required to keep the extreme ice-age cold out (i.e. through building shelter and making clothing), as well as being able to farm/hunt under such conditions, accounts for the bigger brains of Europeans and East Asians compared to e.g. Africans (a fact, but also reflected in mean IQ and educational attainment and productivity differences)?

  • Comment number 75.

    I think it'ss callad cheese smilee oops

  • Comment number 76.

    #74 JJ

    Did you write the Nye Bevan sketch on Bremner Bird and Fortune?

    Saw an advert on TV saying competition prizes that every man wants on Fathers Day. Wow welder, air compressor and spray gun, cordless jig saw and cordless SDS drill kit, 4 season light weight tent. I thought.

    No they were mobile phone. games console, and i-pod. :-(.

    Have men changed? Or am I no longer a member of the sex I was born? Help!!

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 77.

    3D or not 3D

    Too revealing to pass up. Just heard Magic Obama say: "Too Many Iraqis are still displaced or destitute."


  • Comment number 78.

    #77 Barrie

    But at least the displaced, destitute and dead ones have got democracy. They now have politicians to represent them.

    One better than Double Diamond works wonders.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 79.

    #77 Barrie

    d3 + d

    Sorry Barrie posted without thinking.

    displaced, destitute or dead, but democratice. 4D. Take a look at your future.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 80.

    The 1st Test not/nae Bad

  • Comment number 81.

    TOP GEAR enlighten me who put the farthings on Clarcksons shirt

    VG (very Good)

  • Comment number 82.

    OW ouch How many wheels does the Train have

    how many wheels does the jag have

    how many wheels does the black vinCent have (shadow yourself)

    THE 2
    that ill do

  • Comment number 83.

    KingCelticLion (#76) "Did you write the Nye Bevan sketch on Bremner Bird and Fortune?"

    The BBF script writers are clearly plagiarists ;-)

    Good though wasn't it ?

  • Comment number 84.

    KingCelticLion (#76) "Have men changed? Or am I no longer a member of the sex I was born? Help!!"

    Surely you know by now that (most ;-)) women try to change men?

    Spawn of the devil.

  • Comment number 85.


    Given current (immediate and long-term) events and US/Israeli - Iran tensions and Western media coverage, these are worth a critical look. Either side could be fomenting these theatrics (and there are inevitably casualties to such theatrics).

    To be fair, the BBC's understated coverage does make one think critically if not confusedly, which is all one can ask for if one thinks about it ;-)

  • Comment number 86.

    ATE 4 JJ

    Dont worry 2 much about the devil I have him/IT bye the Throat
    Trouble is

    I kill this 1 and another replaces it

    how do I kill IT (the clue is in the Answer(

  • Comment number 87.

    Its called FEAR isnt It Auntie tie our own Noose dont let me stop ye

  • Comment number 88.

    #85 JJ

    second to last paragraph.

    As I have been pointing out over the last week. There is much coverage in the UK media about supporting Team 'Green', as in misplaced unworkable environmental strategies.

    Together with pictures of Iranian footballers wearing 'Green' armbands etc. How many of the mass population do really really understand the two are different.

    #82 dAllan169

    Some Might Say the Brough was Superior.

    Celtic Lion

    (Now just waiting for New Fazer on the last one)

  • Comment number 89.


    KingCelticLion (#88) "second to last paragraph."

    Yes, I took note of that the first time I saw it.

    "As I have been pointing out over the last week. There is much coverage in the UK media about supporting Team 'Green', as in misplaced unworkable environmental strategies.

    Together with pictures of Iranian footballers wearing 'Green' armbands etc. How many of the mass population do really really understand the two are different."

    An astute observation.

    The problem we have today, as I see it, is that liberal-democracy appeals to youth for essentially the same reasons that anarchism and Trotskyism have in the past, i.e because youth has almost nothing to lose, or so they think. What they don't see is their future or the needs of those older than they, i.e. when people need other people and rules to manage or restrain the behaviours which cause most people so much misery. The cost of liberal values don't matter much to the very young as they have not entered into such contracts yet. In fact they are a new found freedom from praental control. Tere has been a progressive lowering and inclusioveness to the vote over the last century or so, and the cost has been dear. It's almost impossible to put old heads on young shoulders (for reasons I never tire of pointing out), hence the necessity for a hard line, especially when there is a very young population in the population pyramid? For this reason I understand much of what's done in the name of Islam, which I think is really just a made-over Stalinism i.e. statism.

    Have a look at Goya's Collosus sometimes, very closely.... What are the people running away from?

  • Comment number 90.

    KCL #76

    Never fear, you have not changed. You are just a member of a dying breed.

    I blame it on the demise of Meccano.

  • Comment number 91.

    KCL #88

    Can't let you down then. I always thought the Brough to be over-rated and over-priced - much like Stella Artois (same sort of marketing technique). The Vincent was a good bike no doubt but it was not without its problems. I had a Series D Rapide for a short while and one one occasion it stripped a number of teeth from the magneto drive cog (fibre) which resulted in a sudden and alarming re-mapping of the ignition. It was also far too fussy about its rear damper. Just the tiniest of oil leaks and cornering was off the menu - and I was off the bike.

  • Comment number 92.

    #91 New Fazer

    Now Lawrence had the former. And what sort of campaign did he take part in. He also had Seven Pillars, each one of which Barrie might approve.

    Have come across the magneto drive cog problem on other's bikes so not confined to yours. But from what I heard the Vincent was preferred. Just didn't have the same celebrity endorsement.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 93.


    Something to bear in mind when thinking about Iran and 'Islam'. Sartre was a Maoist (Stalinist aka statist).

  • Comment number 94.

    #89 JJ

    Do you know of this?

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 95.


    NewFazer (#91) You are not going to get Newsnight to talk about motorbikes!

    You may help get it to talk about how Bush and Blair's 'war on terror' was in fact just a war-on-statism in favour of naked domestic free-market anarchistic capitalism though. See my last post on the Iranian revolution and its guru's public relations job. I bet they got help from their more northerly neighbours who had Islamic republics since the 1920s.

    I suggest this really is what the 'War on Terror' was all about - one you can thank that subterfugure for facilitating Le Credit Crunch and all its accoutriments.

  • Comment number 96.

    #95 JJ

    "NewFazer (#91) You are not going to get Newsnight to talk about motorbikes!"

    I don't know they are a good vehicle to stimulate debate. Vincent did a model called The Prince, which may be underhand.

    Vincent was also a painter, as well as Goya. Any other painters, mentioned in this Blog?

    I did want a compressor and spray gun in #76. Going to put another coat on a garage. Sunflower yellow by coincidence.

    Catch you later.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 97.

    KCL #92

    Lawrence had Boagenes - and it killed him.

    If one wanted to buy a (new) Brough one had to go to dinner with Brough himself to see if he approved. It bestowed exclusivity, the first celeb's bike. Rather like that daft Ferarri featured on Top Gear last nights. In my far flung youth when I was learning about things two wheeled I was befriended by an elderly gentleman who (at 80 years old) still raced a Brough in veterans class grass track. He showed me the insides of those engines and they were nothing special. Just good sales spin.

  • Comment number 98.


    Perhaps I was too hasty above? Am I in a minority reading the BBC spinning innocent facts in a prejudicial if not provocative way?

    For example in the above report, we read "The Revolutionary Guards, Iran's elite security force, have close ties to the country's supreme leader."

    Well of course.

    We also read that the iranian government has said: "Be prepared for a resolution and revolutionary confrontation with the Guards, Basij [pro-government militia] and other security forces and disciplinary forces," they said."

    It's the pro-government insertion.

    Isn't that the job of any govenment militia? There can't be a pro-protestor militia in a properly governed country can there? That would amount to absence of law, or civil war surely?

    Whilst neither pro or con the Iranian government/regime, I am pro unbiased reporting and con spin.

    Then again the Iran government is reported as saying:

    "The Guards will firmly confront in a revolutionary way rioters and those who violate the law," they added."

    As the government here would no doubt? How do the protestors know that there wasn't a fair election? Where's their evidence. If people behaved this way in London because of electoral results they didn't like, our police (or in the USA the National Guard) would behave much the same way would they not. How about the Israelis in Gaza?

    Remember Kent University in the 60s? Surely Obama and Brown should call the behaviour of the protestors outrageous, i.e. throwing things at the police. Our politicians should be supporting the Iranian government should they not if they truly wanted dialogue with Iran?

    This tells the world that they do not surely? Whose interests does that serve? :-(

  • Comment number 99.

    JJ #95

    "NewFazer (#91) You are not going to get Newsnight to talk about motorbikes!"

    Wasn't my fault - KCL started it. (#88)

    It's a failing in us spatial chaps you see. As yet to be feminised and get all wussy. And hateful, and insulting, and innacurate.

  • Comment number 100.


    "Speaking at a news conference, foreign ministry spokesman Hassan Qashqavi accused Western governments of explicitly backing violent protests aimed at undermining the stability of Iran's Islamic Republic.

    "Spreading anarchy and vandalism by Western powers and also Western media... these are not at all accepted," he said"

    The Americans call it the free-market economy. Remember Cheney saying that the Iraqi looters hadn't had this freedom before?

    Is it any wonder we have so many bemused criminals these days. They probably can't tell whether they're thieves or enterepreneurs, after all, the law is not very clear on these matters (see ACA scandal).

    Can anyone tell which is which after recent events in The City, Wall Street and Parliament? Anyone except lawyers that is...;-)

    NewFazer (#99) You'd beter be careful, the Basij are out in force today (see Stephanie Flanders blog).


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