BBC BLOGS - Newsnight: From the web team
« Previous | Main | Next »

Thursday, 9 April, 2009

Sarah McDermott | 17:01 UK time, Thursday, 9 April 2009

Jeremy Paxman is presenting this evening. Here's what's happening on the programme...

We will have the latest on the alleged terror plot behind the arrests of 12 people yesterday. Richard Watson will be here with his assessment of whether Britain is facing a new kind of terror threat. Eleven of the arrested men are Pakistani nationals. We hope to be speaking to the Pakistani High Commissioner to the UK live from Islamabad.

Also, a film from Kosovo and Albania that raises new allegations of kidnap and torture of civilians by the Kosovo Liberation Army both during and after the war in Kosovo, which ended nearly a decade ago. Watch a clip here.

And this from our Economics Editor, Paul Mason:

"I'll be looking at the UK economy and, for once, instead of going "Yikes" going "Mmm... interesting". The point is that we are now one month into the experiment in quantitative easing and it seems to be working. There is the odd sign here and there of other palliative measures finally taking effect. But everybody I have spoken to today warns of one big unresolved problem. The banks. Just when they thought they had wedged an exploding canister between the jaws of the credit crunch it comes back from the depths and bites you. Is anything we are doing to fight the recession actually working? I'll give it my best shot at answering that tonight."

Do join us at 10.30pm.

Newsnight will be taking a break after this evening's programme and will return on Tuesday, 14 April, 2009. Newsnight Review returns on Friday, 17 April, 2009.

Comments

Page 1 of 2

  • Comment number 1.

    "The BBC News investigation also studies claims that some of those held in Albania were killed for their organs, and that physical evidence gathered by UN investigators in Albania was destroyed by the International War Crimes Tribunal"

    Could you tell your viewers what was the outcome of these investigations?
    Reading through your report there is no mention of it.
    There are people in Albania deeply hurt and upset about these allegations. Every time these allegations are mention no real evidences are brought forwards. In the mean time people both in Kosovo and Albania do not understand why BBC would follow such disturbed claims, which only full fill the hate and the extremist in Serbia.

    To somehow claim that 300 people during the war in Kosovo were kidnapped and killed for their organs under the nose of NATO and all the western media at the time based near the Albania and Kosovo border, is pure horror fiction!

    As for the claims that people were torture by the KLA soon after the war ended in Kosovo, these claims need to be investigated and the people who committed this crimes must to be punished.

    However, the authorities in Kosovo can not do much about this claims as the Serbs in Kosovo do not take part in Kosovo instructions, and do not recognize Kosovo independence.

    Serbia is preventing the Serbs in Kosovo to be part of jurisdiction instructions, and therefore Serbs are not able to put these accusation forward.

    BBC should recognize and understand that Kosovo 10 years ago was very different to the Kosovo today. 1 million people were forcibly displaced by the Serb army and thousand of houses burn to the ground. Thousand of civilians were executed and mass graves were found after the Serb army left Kosovo.

    Filings ran high and revenge was the main aim by many of the ordinary people.
    These were action taken by deeply angry and upset people. Yes this is wrong and anyone who took the law in their own hands should be arrested and properly convicted by the courts.

    However KLA never organised mass killings or ethnic cleansing in mass scale as the Serb government and the Milosevic army did. It's just not fair and wrong to portrait KLA in this way. KLA was in alliance with NATO during the Kosovo war and for people in Kosovo is the most proudest moments in their history.













  • Comment number 2.

    MONEY+MAN+MAMMON MIX

    It's gunpowder isn't it? It will blow up again in the future. Gunpowder is OK if you treat it as dangerous, and use it only to go 'bang'. But if you lose sight of what it IS and invest it with mystical, benign attributes, mistakes will be made in its application, and you end up on the wrong side of history.

    Just so.

  • Comment number 3.

    are the economic measures buying time? yes. will it buy enough time for the cds to expire?

    this is the time to lay down the tramlines for the new industries [like a feed in tariff] that will take up the unemployment. is that being done? or is the uk now stalled in election mode? Are things following a speedy economic agenda or a damaging time wasting political one?


    market fundamentalism in the govt is not dead. From the evidence of the latests 'sell off' plans they still seem in love with that false belief? why? how many examples of failure does it take?

  • Comment number 4.

    IT'S ALL WEARING A BIT THIN

    Just a personal opinion.

    For me, all this terror plot/extremism coverage is no longer credible. Richard Watson takes far too little, far too seriously (in my view).

  • Comment number 5.

    Your program on what happenend to Serbs following the end of the Kosovo was was shameful, disgraceful, unsubstantiated, unbelievable and downright unfair.

    The KLA operated wuith a military structure emulated from the IRA. They were professional, disciplined and operated in in accordance with standard rules of engagement.

    The KLA were a small group of brave patriots whop did what they did go get Serbia army troops, who were slaiughtering babies, looting houses, stealing and plundering and also displacing nearly a million ethic Albanians from Kosovo to Albania, Clinton and NATO forced them out. Hasim Thaci himself aslknowledged that there was a snall faction who wore the uniform and committeed a very few sins. It is s jojk to suggest that innocent Serbs sould be riounded up, driven deep into Kukes, and had their organs stolen for onward transmission to turkey. Total fabrication. What organ would survive the treacherous slow abd llong road it would take to get to Tirana.

    There is no smoking gun here. The story is an insult to the people of Kosovo, including Serbs, who live in poverty and are hoping for our support. There was bit a single shred of eidence to support this deeply damaging and painful resurrectiion of the events of 10 years ago.

  • Comment number 6.

    Your sister program PANORAMA has just been broadcast. Easily the best piece of public television produced in years, it has blown a hole in the Government's policy of managing the needs of our elderley persons up and down the country. Maybe you will follow tyhis up tomorrow night with the simple questopn - when will heads roll, and when the system be reformed. Panaroma gave a voice to the elderley this evening, I hope bewsnight llistens.

  • Comment number 7.

    It is amazing for BBC to investigate such allegation against KLA. It seems that Alaister Campbell is not any more in charge of BBC.

    BBC did everything in their powers to demonise Serbs before the Kosovo war, during and after the war. How objective their reporting was is very questionable as even one of their own reporters got the jobs as NATO spokesman (Mark Laity).

    It is very difficult for the Kosovo Albanians to admit that KLE have committed crimes against Serbs. You will never find Albanian who can admit something like that as they have higher cause: independent mono ethnic Kosovo no matter if few hundred Serbs were robed of their own ogans and killed.

    But the most worrying thing is that Hague tribunal has destroyed the evidence provided by UMNIK. Did they get instructions to do that? For sure, otherwise how can you justify giving somebody independence if they committed such horrific crimes.

    This were not isolated incidents, this was instructed by leadership of KLA and with help of Albanian state. It would not suprise me that that Nato forces in Kosovo knew about this and did anything to stop it. Why should they, they were allies during the war. As Nato said: "KLA is our infantry and we are their aviation". Such perfect partnership! Shame on you West!

  • Comment number 8.

    TANKS ON THE HEATHROW LAWN - AGAIN? (#4)

    A bit thin? Did you mean the grass JJ? I am sure J Gordon can find a swatch of spare cash for grass-seed and graduate-groundsmen.
    We were due another scare - the dissent in high places over Afghanistan (why are we there?) had reached the brain cell of the fuddled masses. I think you can now get a mirror on a stick, to check under your car, from a well-known door-to-door supplier. But be sure not to look at a policeman with it!

    Incidentally, why do they always risk detection, and court incrimination, by reconnoitre and photography? Bin L would give them - or their trainers - a right slap for such incompetence. Hmmmmm.

  • Comment number 9.

    To LiamPristina:

    So it seems that people in Pristina and Kosovo dont believe in such a allegations? You should ask friends of the West: Ramush Haradinaj and prime minister of new Nato member Albania, Mr Sali Berisha. They will tell you, you just have to keep quite. You have to ask yourself, how defence of Ramush Haradinaj was paid, by Michael O'Reilly or by Serbian organs?

    It is very hard thing to come with terms when somebody from your nation commits something terrible and you dont believe in that, because you would not do such a terrible thing yourself. But if you denied the fact, than you deny the crime.

    Another questions is why BBC would make such allegations if they are not true? BBC from the beginning of the wars in former Yugoslavia took the stance against Serbs and did everything in their power to demonise them and show them as terrible people. Are you sugesting that BBC now iis feeling the guilt and want to make it even?

    Or maybe you have spend to much time in Kosovo so you believe in anything what you hear from them, how Serbs are terrible and Albanians are so innocent, they would not do such thing. Grow up Liam!

  • Comment number 10.

    :o) Thank goodness for BBCi Player!
    Outstanding Newsnight last night on the alleged terror arrests.

    Richard Watson's report was great and I like his journalistic style - and his reports are always very thorough. Obviously, since the subject area is highly sensitive, the Press can only report a certain amount without risking breaching the country's security.

    Excellent interviews by Jeremy with the Pakistani High Commissioner to the UK - particularly when he pointed out that monitoring system is flawed (does anyone really check?) and that 70% of the terror cases in the UK have a Pakistani connection. Excellent interview with the Minister for Social Cohesion, as the Minister dodged answering questions on how many students had actually been interviewed (none perhaps?) or how many had been turned down visas (again - none perhaps?)

    And it's the first time I've seen Paul in jeans - and very nice too :o)

  • Comment number 11.

    the deminisation of Serbia is starting to unravel, one day the full truth will be told and Serbia will emerge the victim. The victim of NATO and KLA aggression, it suited a US and UK agenda which was military and economic in it's intent. The ethnic cleansing by the Kosovo regime against the Serbs has gone unreported and the silence from the BBC and other western news media resulted in the diabolical one sided reports from Mark Laity at the time. The suspicious death Of Milosovitch at the Hague when he was about to name names in the west was very convenient. I do hope the new broom that is Obama will help to address these blights on history.

  • Comment number 12.

    zorbagreek,



    Have you ever been to Kosovo or the very remote parts of northern Albania?
    The suppose organ traffic is pure fantasy and the report did not bring not even a shred of evidence.
    The BBC report spoke of about 2.000 missing but failed to mention that 1.500 of them are Albanians not Serb.
    Secondly the claims of organ removing in Albania is even more ridiculous. The "traces of blood" find by the UN investigation in one room could easily identified with a simple DNA test. The BBC failed to mention that the family has requested many time to carry the DNA test to put these accusation away.
    Also the so called " medical instrument" which were find outside the house are simple doses of medication for the elderly in the house.They were no attemps to hide them and the BBC failed again to check with the family to confirm this. With the nearest hospital being miles away every single house in that region keeps medication in the house.


    As the the prime minister Thaci mention, yes there were people who committed crime in the name of KLA after the war ended, but KLA has clearly distances themselves from these people.

    When the Serb army in 1999 ( in many cases were the serb neighbour and civilians) came to your village, burn your house , separate women and children from the man, execute the man's and forcibly remove the people left not only from the village but from the country in bare foot walking thousand of miles to Albania, it is very difficult when you back after the war and find all you loved ones buried in mass grave to keep the discipline and respect the rights of the Serbs!!!

    Every single Albanian in Kosovo is very proud of the KLA war and the blood they gave fighting the criminal regime of Milosevic and also very proud to fight alongside NATO to put an end to the ethnic cleansing.

    Kosovo independence is secure and Kosovo look forwards to join NATO and BE in the comming years.

  • Comment number 13.

    FEE! FIE! FOE! FUM!..I SMELL THE BLOOD OF... UMM, ERRR, A STATIST..ERR..SOMEWHERE?

    Is there a whiff of evil-doing statism in the balkanized Yugoslavian air? Instead of digging arond in someone's rubbish for 'evidence' of Dracula's leftovers, how about an update on child 'slave-labour' in evil Uzbekistan? (remember hashar aka 'collective community work' - see links?) Is that now passe given Pakistan (and even Somalia) might be used as bases to threaten Iran (why aren't we bullying Israel, they have nukes and they didn't sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty)?

    The 'credit-crunch' and 'fiscal stimulus/quantitative easing' is stalling too, what will the next terror campaign be? North Western Pakistani-British are as bemused as the rest of us.

    I put much of this nonsense down to dysgenesis adversely affecting recruitment into the CIA, Mossad and MI5/6.

    Please stop sending the brighter 50% of the population to 'university' - that will reduce this deluge of nonsense in the long run (although it will take a few generations alas).

  • Comment number 14.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 15.

    To Authors:

    Again and again Serbian victims are not important enough to make the cover story. Even when they are killed, raped, their organs harvested.

    When will it change?

    To leon_a:
    The truth of Albanians is coming out. It is representative of Albanians to think that if someone doesn't except their opinion, then they don't deserve justice and no crime will be investigated or punished.

    When will that change?

    To LiamPristina:
    IRA is a terrorist organisation that killed soldiers, police officers and civilians (remember Omagh bombing) just because they were Protestants.

    The same is true for so called KLA that is also a terrorist organisation.

    And that is the fact that will never change!

  • Comment number 16.

    To: leon_a

    Unfortunately I have never been in Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija. Now I will even have less chance.

    It was much more comprehensive report made by Serbian B92 station reporters. Now is everything is on Dick Marty as there are enough evidence, witnesses.

    Somehow, UMNIK has found the report which have submitted to Hague Tribunal years ago. They always denied that such a report exist. But suddenly after 4-5 years they found it again. I wonder why? Is it because western media started to investigate these claims or something else? Figure out your self.

    Have you seen that report? I did see parts of it. I also saw the name of the one investigator from Hague Tribunal who might have destroyed the whole material evidence handed to them by Jose Pablo Barayabar. I am ready to disclose his name to BBC if they ask me.

    I know that very difficult to think that some of people from your nation committed such a terrible crimes. Believe me, it is very difficult. But these are the acts, evidence against Ramush Haradinaj and Sali Berisha. For you Ramush Haradinaj is a hero, the same way many Serbs think about Mladic. At least Mladic did not kill and rape himself.

    When you are fighting for your cause you dont care what happens to the other side. You have one aim and that is independent Kosovo. Who cares about Serbs and others as you have nearly archived dream of Great Albania. You have mono ethnic state Kosovo with nice European flag.

    It seems every time this issue is raised, there is always denial from Albanians. Have you seen documentary film about so called "Racak masacre" when Albanian from the village talks how alleged victims were slaughtered with sharp objects and their hearts were taken out? Surprising all victims apart from one were shot from long range according to report published by finnish forensic team in Forensic Science ("Independent forensic autopsies in an armed conflict: investigation of the victims from Racak, Kosovo", J. Rainio, K. Lalu, A. Penttilä. Forensic Science International 116 (2001), pg 175-185). Not removal of any body parts was mentioned in this article.

    The main point what I am trying to raise is that people are ready to lie and deny the truth in order to justify their cause. And for me that is very sick.

    BTW, do you know that B92 (the same station which made series of documentary programs about KLA crimes against Serbs and other non Albanians) is heavily funded by George Soros? I suppose that you know who is George Soros? I have more chance to post comments on BBC website than on B92 website.

  • Comment number 17.

    To leon_a:

    Before Balkan wars, during Turkish occupation of Kosovo Albanians killed Serbs and hijacked Serbian girls.

    That repeated in WW1 while Serbia was under occupation of Imperial Germany, Albanians again killed Serbs and hijacked Serbian girls.

    That again repeated in WW2 while Serbia was under occupation of Nazi Germany.

    Continued till eighties under communist rule. Do you remember that Serbian girls were not able to walk on their own as they disappeared very often?

    And it continued under NATO occupation of Kosovo.

    So, if you are talking about revenge, who has more right?

    So called Kosovo's independence is just a sub-prime independence that is doing the same for international law sub-prime mortgages did for international finance.

  • Comment number 18.

    NEW BROOM OBAMA (#11)

    But how do we define 'new'? The Obama Broom is old technology, old materials, old construction, old advertising, old oratory/rhetoric (old tricks) and same old, assumed, American superiority.

    The trouble with brooms is they only understand 'sweeping'; everything is to be swept clean - away - before them.

    The world needs a 'Dyson'. Unless we re-think 'dirt', and devise a fundamentally new way to get 'clean', that applies the subtle 'vortices' of philosophy and psychology (both human and animal) we shall just spiral down to another level.

    We need a visionary hero.

  • Comment number 19.

    SerbianVoice (#17) "Continued till eighties under communist rule. Do you remember that Serbian girls were not able to walk on their own as they disappeared very often?"

    Excuse me for asking - but is there something wrong with Albanian girls?

  • Comment number 20.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 21.

    To: JadedJean (#19)

    Hijacking of Serbian girls was one of many ways to intimidate Serbs and force them to leave. Also a neat way to force them into "marriages" as Albanian community was allowed to have rules for themselves (free education including universities in Albanian since seventies, a lot of economic help, no fines for avoiding paying electricity (and who knows what else, this is what I know).

    Under Communist rule, Serbs that left Kosovo during WW2 were not allowed to return, but a great number of Albanians from Albania were allowed to enter Serbian territory and stay permanently. It was explained as a help to poor neighbours. The same neighbours that came back to kill and expel the same people that helped them in the past!

  • Comment number 22.

    I am afraid terrorists will always find a way to work around the system and continue with their agenda no matter what happens. We have proven that by a 7-year anti-terrorism war in Afghanistan, that has consumed so much money and military forces, and yet shown no sign of victory at the end of the tunnel. America is effectively bankrupt, and Osama Bin Laden is still alive and kicking, sadly.

    Instead, I think we should focus more on developing greater intelligence networks, to expose the people who are financially sponsoring these organization groups behind the scene (e.g. cut their source of finance, freeze secret bank accounts held by terror suspects, stop their money-making business etc), so that these terrorists won’t get paid handsomely for carrying out suicide attacks, that impose serious danger on the personal safety of people in the western world.

  • Comment number 23.

    THE EU (MAINLY IN EUROPE)

    "The European Union (EU) is an economic and political union of 27 member states, located primarily in Europe."

    Except for Switzerland, Norway, parts of the former Yugoslavia, and not Turkey yet, but soon, as its PM slagged off Israel after Gaza and Obama/Israel can't lose a useful NATO ally, so the UK will be flooded again soon... but it does include Martinique, which is of course part of France which is now 'with the program'...

    Is there any point to rationality anymore? It's all just an endless game of RISK.

  • Comment number 24.

    I think Albanians in Kosovo should read Carla del Ponte's book "The Hunt" that offers a harrowing detail, revealing why have Serbian men been kidnapped throughout Kosovo province during past years instead of being killed on the spot, as is the usual KLA treatment for all non-Albanians, especially those of Serbian ethnicity: because they were used as a livestock for organ harvesting in the illegal trade with human organ transplants.


    According to Glas Javnosti, writing about one of the failed investigations regarding the fate of around 300 abducted Kosovo Serbs who were taken to northern Albania, Del Ponte says that the kidnapped young men were not beaten and were well fed. There was an improvised surgery room in one of the houses, where young Serbs had their internal organs removed to be shipped over the Tirana airport "Mother Teresa" abroad, where the organs of the healthy young Serbs were sold.

    This is written, black on white by prosecutor Del Ponte, not exactly very keen on Serbians but in her book the truth is there for every body. To see the albanians doing this theatrical act of trying to be the innocent ones shows the reality of their nature.

    Wish you all a good day

  • Comment number 25.

    To leon_a:

    Another thing which I have missed in you previous posting. You said that Albanian civilians were walking bare foot thousand of miles to Albania. Even few miles walking barefoot is terrible when you are escaping in order to save your life.

    But please dont say something which is not true. From administrative border between Serbia and Kosovo to Albania there is less than 100 miles. So that is the longest distance. So please dont try to make this heart touching stories of people walking thousand of miles bare foot to reach safety, when the longest distance between any point in Kosovo and Albania is less than 100 miles.

    What it seems, you tryng to find excuse for these atrocities committed by KLA against Serbs, through Kosovo Albanian suffering during war.

  • Comment number 26.

    thanks goodness for ytube where you can see films like

    Pretty Village, Pretty Flame

    about the former yugolsavia and its move from 'social harmony' to ethnic cleansing.

  • Comment number 27.

    to bookhimdano:

    Very good film, in deed, made by Serbs, probably the only nation that in ex Yugoslavia not trying to justify everything committed by its own forces.

    But, do I hear a bit of: it can't happen to us, they are from Balkan?

    Please explain as depending on your answer your post may have breached the rules.

  • Comment number 28.

    Carla del Ponte's book "The Hunt" offers a harrowing detail, revealing why have Serbian men been kidnapped throughout Kosovo province during past years instead of being killed on the spot, as is the usual KLA treatment for all non-Albanians, especially those of Serbian ethnicity: because they were used as a livestock for organ harvesting in the illegal trade with human organ transplants.


    According to Glas Javnosti, writing about one of the failed investigations regarding the fate of around 300 abducted Kosovo Serbs who were taken to northern Albania, Del Ponte says that the kidnapped young men were not beaten and were well fed. There was an improvised surgery room in one of the houses, where young Serbs had their internal organs removed to be shipped over the Tirana airport "Mother Teresa" abroad, where the organs of the healthy young Serbs were sold.

  • Comment number 29.

    The Photo

    what about the photographer? Why has no one questioned him/her about if it was right to publish a photo that would damage national security? If he had a photo of the d-day plans would he have published that too? Everyone has a responsibility for security and it is highly irresponsible to put a scoop before security. Yet as usual there is journalistic silence on this. because they will always put a scoop before the common good?

  • Comment number 30.

    To leon_a:

    Another thing which I have missed in you previous posting. You said that Albanian civilians were walking bare foot thousand of miles to Albania. Even few miles walking barefoot is terrible when you are escaping in order to save your life.

    zobagreek i'm one of them walking for thousand of miles with my elderly parents on my back. We took shelter in the mountains and i seen women giving birth and elderly die during the torture walk to the albanian's alps.
    You don't have a clue of the people sufferings and the high price that my family and every family in Kosovo pay for the freedom.
    The thing with you lot is that you never been to Kosovo or Albania. You don't understand the way of life and the people of that regions.
    Same as the other 99% of Serbs who never been to Kosovo or planning to visit Kosovo, you get information from the Serb propaganda based on lies and pure horror fantasies.

    vujadin,

    Please stop with your stupid comments. Under the communist rule in Albania crossing the border was seen as treason and punishable by death!!

    Serbian voice,

    You must be very sad to come up with such a ridicules comments. We are talking about events 10 years ago not the Ottoman empire more than 100 years ago!
    As a matter a fact Kosovo during the WW2 was liberated by the Albanian Partisans with no help from Serbia or any other foreign country.

    BBC,

    I would still follow with the same passion the programme news night, and i'm sure people in Kosovo would understand that a isolated and weak report like this one for the KLA don't represent the true values of the BBC.

  • Comment number 31.

    27

    Sorry i have no idea what you are on about? Maybe English is not you're first language?

    my point is thanks to ytube people can hear different voices. bbc would never show these foreign films. they think we are too thick to handle subtitles.

  • Comment number 32.

    To: bookhimdano (#31)

    Sorry, I heard that many times in the UK, so I wanted to check if it was what you said - "nice to hear different voices" or just another not so appropriate remark.

  • Comment number 33.

    To: leon_a (#30)

    The only force Albanians had in WW2 was SS division Skanderbeg know for its use of knives!!

    Yes, it tried to kill all Serbs as a way how to liberate occupied Kosovo from Serbs.

    In fact, till late eighties, Kosovo as a Serbian province was ruled by Albanians and the police was in hands of Albanians that just continued with harassment of Serbs and all other non-Albanians. Violent pro-independence demonstrations were frequent since late sixties - with a lot of dead, both civilians and police officers.

    Why don't you mention how many Serbian girls were raped? Even men!

    So, you are a bit thin on a truth, if you can say any.

    Interesting, why don't you mention that one Albanian was also a Yugoslav president?

    Serbs always respected the rights of others, but it is more than obvious that whenever it was possible, Albanians tried to kill and expel as many Serbs as possible. With the help of Turkish empire, German empire, Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, Communists and not NATO.






  • Comment number 34.

    correction:

    Serbs always respected the rights of others, but it is more than obvious that whenever it was possible, Albanians tried to kill and expel as many Serbs as possible. With the help of Turkish empire, German empire, Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, Communists and NOW WITH THE HELP of NATO.

  • Comment number 35.

    To. leon_a

    Please explain to me, how did you walk thousand miles from Kosovo to Albania? Which route did you take? What's was the name of your village/town in Kosovo and what was you destination in Albania? As I said in my previous posting the distance between any place in Kosovo to Albanian border (Kukes or Bajram Curi in Albania) is less that 100 miles.

    So Leon_a please do not post comments which are not based on the facts. You might have walked with your parents to flee to safety (I am not denying that), and I suppose it was terrible experience, but please thousand of miles is complete nonsense. Even though many people in UK dont know much about Kosovo geography and location distance to Albania, but thanks God they have Internet and Google maps.

    Well it seems that people in Kosovo like only Newsnight which potrays Serbs as bad guys and Albanians as a victims. I am sure that you can check BBC archives, there are plenty of those.

  • Comment number 36.

    @ Leon_a:

    Well done, so what I write is stupid, which is not a comment but a fact, and what you write makes much more sense?

    I'm talking about real facts, and you completely missed the point her Mr.

    It's a fact that albanians did those things to serbians, at least Serbian army killed on the spot, you made money out of a tragedy.


  • Comment number 37.

    To those that may not be aware Jaded_jean (#19) is a "nationalist" and race "realist" who likes eugenics and doesn't like people painting Hitler "darkly" etc etc.

    You get the picture.

    A natural xenophobe that poster delights in saying cruel things about the tragedies of history.

    Clearly not an intelligent person the poster also seems to think that readers will be persuaded to race "realism".

    Its probably a genetic condition.

  • Comment number 38.

    Its good to see that bank prices rose on the back of Wells Fargo.

    Apparently we still don't know who holds toxic assets and what value they are.

    So I have been pondering. There are two banks with a similar price "Nice n'steady" and "The Roulette Bank". They have a similar price but Roulette owns zillions of pounds of toxic assets.

    As those assets are derivatives they are not "due" yet so don't have to be reported.

    But if its clear those assets are not assets they are "toxic" then doesn't the investor have the right to know as they would prefer to invest in Nice n'steady?

    My point is that if we allow a "mini-bubble" to start on the basis of the recovering banks then as soon as that bubble bursts due to the toxic assets it will be twice as hard to recover confidence.

  • Comment number 39.

    this plot is all hype but serves the average redneck kneejerks politics of hate.

    the fact is the government planned this propaganda exercise for this weekend so that it would hit the news broadcasters big time with a lot of coverage instead that plan was put off course firstly by tomlinsons death and quicks unfortunate disclosure.

    the interesting part of that manifest was right at the bottom .. "media strategy" .. since we know that such raids can be undertaken covertly without any or little reporting or 'sources' blabbing as much as they can to get a narrative out one has to wonder why not if its a real plot of any worth.

    why would government and police seek to accuse and demonise before due process?

    anyway if youre not certain what its all about .. the usa-uk have been planning the afghan surge into pakistan for some years, we now have pretty much all we need in place militarily so this was part of the justification for our new war. (if you hadnt noticed both sky and bbc have been doing quite a bit of pr for the hearts and minds campaign on behalf of the government).

    as the pakistan high commissioner stated on newsnight last night the whole process of vetting and giving visas is undertaken by the british govt.

    so for brown to blame pakistan is a bit of a own goal. ( not to mention our 300 year long war with the irish which is still ongoing )

    anyway the important linkage is that if we are going to go around killing hundreds of innocent people we can only create more militancy. and the fact is the oblairma-bush strategy in the region has been a failure and will continue to be so until it is recognised that european cultural imperialism is not wanted.

    further the government is playing with some stats to create a sense of threat that doesnt really exist at the level they want us to believe.

    the recent mantra has been that 70% of all severe terrorist activities have some link to pakistan.

    firstly 50% of muslims are from pakistan so 70% is not so much or a surprise when the majority of the conflict is in that region of the world.

    that is usa drones and covert actions killing many many civilians

    further the 70% figure is after one has decided which activities are classed as 'severe'. wholly subjective and open to political manipulation.

    apparently this current alleged plot was to take place this weekend, and yet no weapons or bombs just some holiday snaps.

    and again speaking pushtu (their native dialect of choice)and calling back home is a terrorist threat these days.

    after the lies of tomlinson, de menezes etc and other high profile raids that have been proven to be cowpoo nothing can be believed as being true either from this government or the politicised police force that we have today.

    its just another exercise to serve their mad ideological neo conservative wars.

  • Comment number 40.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 41.

    richard watsons report reminded me of the dead parrot sketch (monty python) .. with paxman catch phrase being ' its a car bomb' .

    unfortunately watson is rather too trusting with respect to his sources and briefings and detailing such matters without any sense of warning to reliability is dangerous because it makes him look as if he is part of the govt machinery.

    im certain that he tries to be impartial and objective but the perception is far from that point im afraid.

  • Comment number 42.

    #18 barriesingleton

    "We need a visionary hero."

    From the people who came up with "you paint Hitler as darkly as possible for party political reasons"!

    No poetry singelton! "Springtime for Hitler...."

    The views of some of the race "realist" posters on this page align closely with the BNP.

    So is Nick Griffin a visionary hero? He's the guy on the bouncey castle at their conference-in-a-field (nobody would hire them a hall).

    Does he have better vision because he jumps higher and can see further than those on the ground?

    You aren't talking about Jaded_Jean or New Fazer?

    Hilarious. "One of your best Barrie".

    Now goose step off.

  • Comment number 43.

    #40 Jaded_Jean

    Would you say you were a fascist and if not why is a fascist different to a "nationalist" - that you admit to. You like eugenics, race "realism", touchy about Hitler and very touchy about his drinking sessions with his niece etc etc

    You people are always so cowardly when it comes to genuinely explaining your views.

    You just slither around in the grass spitting nasty comments.

  • Comment number 44.

    To: JadedJean #40

    I was just wondering about your posts: Is that famous British sense of humour?

  • Comment number 45.

    wendymann (#39) "the fact is the government planned this propaganda exercise for this weekend so that it would hit the news broadcasters big time with a lot of coverage"

    Not only that, it's Easter so, not only are we supposed to be scared out of our Christian wits, but we even get official follow-ups telling us not to let terror spoil our Christian shopping-spending in Tescos, Sainsburys, M&S etc as that would be bad for the economy, amongst other things...! ;-)

  • Comment number 46.

    I think that now the question is going into a different direction:
    The point is that albanians, I don't care whether under kla, thaci or whoever, committed mass murder of serbians in order to sell their organs on the black market.
    Full Stop.
    This is the reality. And I'm glad this has been brought out again to the pubblic by BBC.

    Milosevic, Karazdic and other serbian bosnian militants have been or are under trial for crimes, fair enough I would say, but where are the albanians? One is the leader of this banana republic called kosovo and the others?

    Justice for Serbian people, now!

  • Comment number 47.

    A FOUNDATION BUILT ON SAND

    Again and again we are forced to accept that a lot of Machiavellian stuff goes on, dressed up as anything from '45 minutes' to 'Heathrow is in danger' and even that 'Towers 1, 2, AND 7! fell in convenient, orderly fashion, from a variety of causes, under the umbrella of 'Terror'. (The New Pearl Harbour.)

    But NOW we have a focus for World madness: Tony Blair's Faith Foundation! If ever a man built a house upon sand - this is it. 'Think on these things': even if Tony has no idea of the magnitude of his delusion, and of the extent of the terrible things he has done, WE KNOW. Thus Britain and America (and, by extension - the world) are DEFINED BY THIS ONE MAN becoming rich, famous, powerful, 'honoured', even respected. While such men are elevated, what chance of normality and progress on this deranged globe?

    Blair's life is becoming a Monty Python epic.
    All these glaze-eyed nutters, wandering the planet: Obama orating, Gore Gaia-ing and Blair blessing - it's like wide-screen Galilee 2009.

    Oh for the wrath of a genuine God!

  • Comment number 48.

    It seems that Albanians have been awarded for their crimes. Now we even have Albania in Nato, I just wonder on which basis.? Democracy, modern military, fighting for Americans in Aphaganistan and Irak?

    But is it really true about Hashim Thaci and Madeline Albright? He could have been her grandson! But I suppose love and interest are not influenced by age difference.

  • Comment number 49.

    "Please explain to me, how did you walk thousand miles from Kosovo to Albania? Which route did you take? What's was the name of your village/town in Kosovo and what was you destination in Albania? As I said in my previous posting the distance between any place in Kosovo to Albanian border (Kukes or Bajram Curi in Albania) is less that 100 miles."

    zorbagreek what is the point of explaining to you? If i were to tell you my home address and the route, would you apologise for your sick comments?
    For the benefits of the people who read these comments i will add just the following.
    To get from central Kosovo (Skenderaj) to the Albania border is a good 5-6 hour drive.
    From the Albania border to Kukes or Burrel ( where the organs accusations lies) is a good 4-5 hour drive!!! Also from there to Tirana is another 8 hour drive. The reason is simple there are no proper roads and motorways don't exist!
    As i said people like zorbagreek never been to Kosovo and they do not know the terrain.
    They write based in what they read and see from Belgrade propaganda.
    So the answer to your question zobagreek is that YES we cover thousand of miles. We didn't have cars or allow to follow the normal route, we were forced to pass the Alps. Now i let you figure out how many miles someone need to cover up and down the mountains of Kosovo and Albania.

    It was hard and many people die as a result. However thanks to NATO and the UK&USA alliance Kosovo will never experience anything like that again, and my children would never have to take the same route as they parents did.








  • Comment number 50.

    barrie (#47) "Blair's life is becoming a Monty Python epic.
    All these glaze-eyed nutters, wandering the planet: Obama orating, Gore Gaia-ing and Blair blessing - it's like wide-screen Galilee 2009.

    Oh for the wrath of a genuine God!"


    Bob Quick's revelation has served multiple purposes I guess, but it's still all too much to bear, (not just for him either) as you so eloquently point out.

    Meanwhile, today, General David Petraeus of Strategic Command reassures the world that USS star-ships Hegemony and Tel-Aviv will soon be off the Horn of Africa to see to any pirates in the vicinity.

    zorbagreek (#44) Only in an ever so slithery sort of way - evidently, not everyone appreciates irony or truth ;-)

  • Comment number 51.

    to leon_a (#49):

    Many more Serbs were killed by Albanians whenever Kosovo was occupied by foreign forces - they all had to leave. Pure numbers: at the start of the 20th century it was 50/50, now there is less than 10% Serbs left. And that is after 200.000 Serbs had to leave - so another argument that 90% of the population of the Serbian province Kosovo wanted independence became a fact ONLY AFTER the NATO helped Albanians to expel 200.000 Serbs!!

    You can also mention how many Albanians went to Macedonia, Montenegro and rest of Serbia as well.

    You can also mention that the speed of a car is 10kmph due to very bad state of roads, so 50km in 5 hours.

    You can mention that it started after NATO started the aggression.

    You can mention what the USA & the UK did in Iraq: in Mosul and in Baghdad civilians are ordered to leave towns so not to help guerilla forces or to hinder attack.

    But you chose not to. Why?

    Maybe because you learned that only big numbers can make a lie look good?

  • Comment number 52.

    Mistress76uk (#10) "Richard Watson's report was great and I like his journalistic style - and his reports are always very thorough. Obviously, since the subject area is highly sensitive, the Press can only report a certain amount without risking breaching the country's security.

    Are we allowed to have national security any more? Doesn't that risk encouraging 'protectionism'? Is that why our armed forces and police (like the rest of the Public Sector) have been nobbled - i.e. because they're considered 'bad for the economy'?

  • Comment number 53.

    To: leon_a

    It is very hard to believe your story of thousand miles. So now you are saying that you walked from Albanian border to Tirana. I can believe that you walked from somewhere in Kosovo to Albanian border, but why did you have to walk to Tirana from Kukes or Burrel (from which one)? If you were hiding from Serbs in Kosovo and try to avoid them, why did you have to hide once when you have arrived in Albania? There were not any Serbs there. Or nobody was there to drive you to Tirana? Get your facts right!

    And why my comments are sick? Because you dont like them because they are based on facts?

    It seems for you Albanians, there is only one type of truth: Albanian. And everything which does not come in that category is Serb Belgrade propaganda. By thinking like that you will never have multi ethnic Kosovo.

    I am afraid that time of Albanian propaganda has passed. Now whole world see what you were doing to these innocent civilians for your cause.

  • Comment number 54.

    thegangofone (#43) "You people are always so cowardly when it comes to genuinely explaining your views."

    How do you know that it isn't a matter of you people not being very good at reading/comprehending?

  • Comment number 55.

    The allegations of the Newsnight report should be thoroughly investigated, by proper investigators, certainly not someone like Nick Thorpe.
    There must be justice for the 300 Serbs who
    are still missing and it should've been done a long time ago. This people did not just vanish from the face of earth. Somebody on the Albanian side must know where they are.
    On the other hand much more needs to be done for over 1500 Albanians who are still missing.
    I am appalled how shallow the report was.
    Mr Thorpe forgot completely to mention that the UN authorities never conducted any court case against the Serbs who commited these crimes.
    He made it look like those files on the basement are for the missing Serbs.
    Just FYI mr Thorpe,ther are thjousands of letetrs , documents and testimonies against Serbian war criminals which are also left untouched on that basement.
    Implying that this story is the other side of the coin it's just simply not acceptable.
    Let's not joke ourselves here!
    Serbia was a highly organised state, and to try and equalise the crimes of that regime with those of the Albanians, be it individuals or people with KLA uniforms, its simply sensational journalism.
    Something more for the Sun paper than for the Newsnight.
    Also it's shocking to see on a Newsnight report someone like Jose Baraybar.
    A suggestion for Newsnight: maybe next time you can do a report on Mr Baraybar and the reason why he left Kosovo.
    FYI there is a court case, a lawsuit, against him, brought by the the families of missing Albanians. The charge brought against him is :Mr Jose Baraybar stole the leftovers, the bones, of many victims for his own 'scientific research'. He brought these bones to America without the consent of the grief stricken families. How's that for a story Mr Thorpe (Newsnight)?
    Eki, London

  • Comment number 56.


    zorbagreek read again my comment!

    I'm not saying i walked to Tirana but gave a brief description of the terrain.
    This is the answer of your questions : "So the answer to your question zobagreek is that YES we cover thousand of miles. We didn't have cars or allow to follow the normal route, we were forced to pass the Alps. Now i let you figure out how many miles someone need to cover up and down the mountains of Kosovo and Albania."

    Out of the coriousity could you tell me and the audience of the news night, who are reading these comments, why a Greek guy like you who never been to Kosovo and doesn't have a clue about the Kosovar people could write such nasty comments?

  • Comment number 57.

    To: ustahi (#55)

    Serbia was highly organised :))))) well, unfortunately, that is a joke. If that were a truth, UCK would not had gained even a trickle of a territory, not almost 40% of province Kosovo controlled by fear and torture.

    As for the justice, most if not all people committing crimes against Albanians were sentenced. But a very small fraction of crimes against Serbs were solved at all!!

    And as a fill a top, Albanians got independence and all property of Serbia for free. And free license to kill Serbs that was/is used very often.

  • Comment number 58.

    To: leon_a

    What is so nasty in my comments? Because I am questioning your story? I still dont believe that you have have walked thousand miles it is complete lie.

    I am not going to read any more your comments, I promise. I just don't like with people try to deny facts.

    I have never been in Kosovo but I know many people who have been there as peacekeepers and what they told me about these crimes. They had orders not to stop them and they were instructed not to investigate crimes committed against Serbs. It was massive cover up.

  • Comment number 59.

    the albanians supported the fascists in the last war, the Serbs supported the Allies throughout...rest my case...

  • Comment number 60.

    To: leon_a (#56)

    Simple facts Leon:

    1) On Balkan peninsula only Serbs and Greek fought against Nazis.

    2) Albanians had SS division Skanderbeg, so you are used to fight together with Croats' Nazi Ustashe and few others against Serbs alone, always when Serbs are attacked by someone who is the main ruler in that part of the world - Turkish empire, German Empire, Nazi Germany and NATO now.

    3) You know that lies look much better when only Serbs complain and, it has to be admitted, Albanians had a lot of help and did some very good job in presenting Serbs as only villains and themselves as innocent victims.

    It is time to end that illusion and show everybody the whole picture!

  • Comment number 61.

    zorbagreek (#58) "What is so nasty in my comments? Because I am questioning your story? I still dont believe that you have have walked thousand miles it is complete lie.

    You asked reasonable questions and challenged what appeared prima facie to be hyperbole/rhetoric/propaganda.

    That's all that some traffic in, sometimes on purpose, sometimes just out of habit. Most people don't like being caught out and called to account either.

    Similar stories were generated about the movement of Jews from Hungary to Polish camps by train at the end of WWII. The distance was about that from London to Manchester yet the stories made out that people were suffering through lack of food, water etc. One has to remember that people rarely (many can not ever) describe things as they are, but as they want others to perceive them - something which causes considerable conflict/harm......

  • Comment number 62.

    NEWFLASH: BRITAIN NOT DOING ENOUGH TO STOP TERROR THREATS

    ...Which don't happen.

    Police search for bomb factory but don't find one.

    Man looks for winning lottery ticket, but finds he doesn't have one.

    Woman looks for knight on charger but doesn't find him.

    Liberal-democracies forget what intelligent behaviour is, and go nuts with intensional (counterfactual) conditionals having sent too many people to 'university' and dysgenically bred hordes of nitwits.

  • Comment number 63.

    KNIGHT ON A CHARGER? (#62)

    That'll be The Green Knight then JJ?

  • Comment number 64.

    barrie (#63) Possibly ;-)

  • Comment number 65.

    WELL PLAYED JADED JEAN!

    I yield.

  • Comment number 66.

    As one of the few active political discussion sites still operating (if not perhaps observed, save my moderators) during the school hols when most reporting staff are off for a few weeks assessing snow conditions in Verbier (for a climate change piece?), might I ask about this comment:

    'The BBC have an anonymous Downing Street source claiming that no-one else in Downing Street besides Damian knew about all this - simply not true and contradicted by the evidence'

    ...about this report?:

    No 10 apology over 'slur' e-mails

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7994408.stm

    It seems... unfortunate, that I tend now to have more faith in the factual fidelity and investigative rigour that may be enjoyed from a lone, free-to-view blogger of known, admitted political leanings, as opposed to the well staffed, uniquely-funded, 'objective', politically, um... neutral behemoth we are required to co-fund.

  • Comment number 67.

    ELECTION?

    Anybody read a rumour about a snap General Election on 4th June 2009? The same day as the EU ones. I read it on one or two blogs.

  • Comment number 68.

    In the liquid bomb plot and the resulting worldwide front page headlines were a Godsend for Bush in mid-term elections.

    They also enabled the government to permanently ramp up the fear factor by the ludicrous toothpaste and shampoo searches - do you remember the massive banner headlines – the full front page of every single tabloid in the UK - about the evil Muslim mother who planned to blow up herself and her baby along with the plane?

    There was no media reporting at all when she was cleared and released.

    The “Suspicious chemical” which police announced they had found in baby bottles was, errr, baby bottle sterilising solution.

  • Comment number 69.

    DAMAGING AND DEMEANING

    Anarchistic NUT Primary School teachers are now demonstrating to the nation that they a) don't know what they are talking about and b) don't appear to understand that their job is to implement what's prescribed by law, not what they decide.

    And some question that behaviour is deteriorating?

  • Comment number 70.

    DISEMBLING: THE McBRIDE-DRAPER AFFAIR

    What's so appalling about all this is the way that some are trying to reduce the gravity of the behaviour by making out that those involved assert that they decided not to publish the material. But note the non truth-functional intensional idioms at work by these spin-doctors. What is clear is the physical evidence... what they intended to do, decided to do, thought about doing etc, is irrelevant as it's undecidable/not truth-functional.

    People in Government/Public Service, like everyone else, should be judged by their observable actions and the consequences of those actions, not by what they assert their reasons or intentions are.

    We are awash in people dissembling.

    How about Paxman grilling them Newsnight?

  • Comment number 71.

    McBRIDE 'RESIGNS' HAVING BECOME 'THE STORY'

    Seems to me I've heard that song before.
    Didn't Alistair Campbell do the same thing - going straight round to the back door of No 10 and continuing to deliver 'valuable service'?

    How politicians do so love dark agencies to darken their doorsteps.

  • Comment number 72.

    #68 wendymann

    Talking of suspicious chemicals in babies bottles the health fascists are proposing this week that Fluoride should be added to UK drinking water to improve child dental health. Plenty of positive spin on the BBC but no mention of this ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SYgUi_f5yY

    Is it just a marketing scam to force everyone to buy expensive water filters ?

  • Comment number 73.

    PUBLIC 'SERVICE'

    barrie (#71) Do you not think their personal journeys anguish, and deeply felt concern for others is an expression of philanthropic public interest?

  • Comment number 74.

    70. At 7:31pm on 11 Apr 2009, JadedJean
    How about Paxman grilling them Newsnight?


    Indeed. But I suspect that once folk have returned from the school hols, the newsworthiness of the moment may have again passed...

    Order-order - 'Stephen Pound says Guido is laughing all the way to the bank - actually Guido gave the story to the News of the World and the Sunday Times for pleasure not profit. '

    In light of stories that to Labour now the only viable form of defence is to attack the person and not the facts, has this regular talking excuse/head been held to account for following the party line, as well as being less than accurate, especially by the news persons interviewing him? I would expect nothing less from a professional news broadcaster... paid for, or 'uniquely funded'.

    ps: Speaking of effective grilling, Liam Byrne's performance on BBC Breakfast News at the hands of Charlie Stayt just now is worth a YouTube. Priceless!

  • Comment number 75.

    WHAT PRICE DE-REGULATION & HEDONISM?

    JunkMale (#74) "Indeed. But I suspect that once folk have returned from the school hols, the newsworthiness of the moment may have again passed...

    Alas, most still do not/will not appeciate the extent to which we have dysgenically bred, and continue to breed, an ever less able/unstable population through anarchistic policies such as education, education, education, 'equalities', privatisation, unrestricted immigration, and discouragement of deference in the name of 'freedom'.

    What's really white-collar crime against people i.e. predation upon others, is here dismissed as 'childish' behaviour, like Ross-Brand antic. Sadly, Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Anti-Social Personality Disorder ('psychopathy') belong in the same psychiatric cluster (DSM-IV Cluster B) and share half their Factor Structure. Sadly, 'psychotherapy' (both sides of the dyad) appears to be a magnet for such people, and yet there's no more empirical evdence that it does any good than there is that spin-doctoring does elsewhere. The media is a big part of the problem in that it reinforces/profits from this irrational narcisisitic celebritism (the ad hominem).

  • Comment number 76.

    RECEIVED (INCONVENIENT) TRUTHS (#72 link)

    I have pushed against 'absolute truths' all my life. The linked video uses language in a disingenuous way, and leaves a lot 'hanging'.

    MANY naturally occurring substances are harmful to some individuals.
    ALL science is contaminated by 'human behaviour'.
    ALL human behaviour is 'unscientific'
    UNCERTAINTY is the only certainty in science.

    Even PLACEBO effects can work to advantage and to disadvantage.

    It's a hard world - dead or alive . . .

  • Comment number 77.

    THE HUMAN APE IS STILL CONFUSED (#73)

    Hi JJ. I have absolute belief in cluster-lore (as I have in good/bad fluoride) but is there not a strong case for ANIMAL BEHAVIOUR being 'reverse configured' to optimum human arrangement?

    I rather suspect that social groups of animals defer to the narcissist, psychopathic, oversexed bully as a leader, as he optimises group success.

    We aspiring humans, have elevated certain, underlying, higher-ape behaviours (perhaps counter-intuitive in 'wild' society but quite appealing in calm, structured 'cultural society) and are now caught between two stools.

    Culturally, we have a cancerous growth of 'caring niceness' (political correctness being a visible lump) yet still, instinctively choose leaders for their alpha-ape qualities.

    In summary, I believe we have lost sight of the need to JUDICIOUSLY optimise our ape-vehicle, if we are to go forth to a bright tomorrow, cerebrally among the stars. Further, we need to be aware that our animal-love of charisma, rhetoric and oratory, must not be allowed to put stars in our eyes, when choosing leaders.

    Perhaps I am just trailing after Huxley.

  • Comment number 78.

    barrie (#76) That sounds a little like an anarchists' excuse.

    I'm pretty sure you know that the sciences (and the professions/technologies which rely upon them), are inherently uncertain (probable) in statements of fact (some=not(all), all=not(some) etc)) i.e. the language of the sciences is actuarial as measurement and control always has an error term. What we appear to be losing these days are standards/regulation.

    Have we become irrationally frightened of being authoritative as a consequence? Or is it immutable dysgenesis?

  • Comment number 79.

    barrie (#77) "I rather suspect that social groups of animals defer to the narcissist, psychopathic, oversexed bully as a leader, as he optimises group success."

    That is empirically so, but the biological sciences study behaviour non-normatively, i.e. descriptively.

    If we can't/don't better manage our collective behaviour than many of our mammalian relatives, we're going to go exactly the same way as many of them - i.e. extinct.

    See Liberal-Democratic TFRs.

  • Comment number 80.

    ICARUS SYNDROME (#78)

    Ho JJ! We are at it again!

    Outline experiment:
    1/ Have global cataclysm that takes mankind to near-extinction.
    2/ Return by default to extended family, hunter-gatherer life.
    3/ Check viability/sustainability over - say - ten thousand years.

    See you then.

    PS Does unavoidable in-breeding of small survivor groups eliminate the most debilitating recessive genes in challenging circumstances?

  • Comment number 81.

    ANOTHER TERM TO DEFINE (#78)

    Hey JJ! Do your scruples allow the use of the word 'excuse'? It looks a bit 'out-of-bounds' from here. (:o)

  • Comment number 82.

    INSIDIOUS/PERNICIOUS ANARCHISM

    barrie (#80) I cite you (and others) an example: the NUT considers it demeaning to staff, and damaging to pupils, for Primary School teachers to do their jobs as prescribed by their employers and the law.

  • Comment number 83.

    barrie (#81) "Hey JJ! Do your scruples allow the use of the word 'excuse'? It looks a bit 'out-of-bounds' from here. (:o)"

    OK, an Liberal-Democratic anarchist's (narcissisitic) delusion. (:o) They spin themselves silly with their intensional idioms in my view, or do more wiley ones' bidding unwittingly.

    I keep trying to explain to these wayward, i.e. arrested developed, people that they either do as they are told, else computers, or those who do, will end up doing so in their stead.

    (:o(

  • Comment number 84.

    addendum (#83) Alas, I clearly lack the wisdom/courage to practice what I truly believe, i.e that one can't put an old head on young shoulders...

  • Comment number 85.

    I have to say I am intrigued as to what the 'great and good' of BBC political blogging will find newsworthy enough to discuss upon the great St. Trinian's post-hols return.

    Hint... regular interview-friendly guys (sorry:) like Sir Mike and Kevin Maguire not doing so well, even on home ground.

    Best take another few weeks off.

    There's always the US President. It has four legs. But the current stories in the blogosphere seem to have longer ones.

  • Comment number 86.

    Apologies (see how easy that was?), it was a genuine error (see how that can be sincere?), but in my enthusiasm I omitted a key piece of text. It should read...

    There's always the US President's new dog.

    It just occurs that they are prone to keeping on digging, though Sgt. 'he knows nothing... nothing..' Brown of NuLab's Heroes might be equally unaware and should be careful not to get tripped up during any future visit.

  • Comment number 87.

    MUTTLEY OBAMA

    Let no one be in any doubt - A mutt - at the Whitehouse - does NOT imply America has gone - to the dogs. No - if anything - it shows America - once again - taking the lead in matters of humanity - even doggonity.

    God Bless the United States of America - and all mutts who poop on her - and on the rest of the world - from a great height.

  • Comment number 88.

    It would appear that the government are seriously considering a " Car Scrap " scheme for " old " vehicles, namely cars over 9 years old. I believe that FoE support it, despite the fact that producing a new vehicle causes as much pollution in creation, as they will admit in their natural life. There are plenty of perfectly serviceable car's over 9 years old, and perhaps instead of scrapping them perhaps they could be given to third world countries as a substitute for cash aid.

    Perhaps they could also do it with vans and wagons, the third world is crying out for better transport, 25+ years old wagons are still being used in my locality.

    They could provide instant cheap transport in third world countries, generate business, and perhaps give some people the first rung on the transport ladder. There is a potential market for it as the Tata Nano hopes to prove, 3rd class riding is always preferable to first class walking. Unfortunately though it would appear that the Tato Nano has got insufficient ground clearance to be of any use on rough tracks. Although not ideal, the average British car would be better and could include 4 by 4's.

    Another problem with it is that unless you are rich enough to afford to pay cash, its just a bribe to encourage you to take on even more credit. Despite the slack market for new cars major manufacturers have already put their prices up significantly in anticipation.

  • Comment number 89.

  • Comment number 90.

    Johnson said:

    "Gordon is not responsible for every single person who works for him, for what they do in their own time."

    So who is responsible for the people who work as special advisers. Basically they an do what they like in their "spare time".

    They weren't "spinning for Labour".

  • Comment number 91.

    #70; well there you go, we agree on something, but not on the spelling of dissembling.

    Am not sure what you think they were dissembling about; like your views on teachers, politicians show all the signs of arrested development, for neither have , in the main, done a proper day's work in their puff.

    There is a generational thing going on here too, because the era of Healey, Wilson, MacMillan had all experienced the horrors of war at first hand, unlike Thatcher, Blair and Brown who have attempted , with varying degrees of success, to use wars to boost their political standing.

    How do Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper justify claiming nearly 900k p.a. between them in salaries, allowances and expenses?
    Simply because it's not illegal?

    Like people who use off-shore banking business to minimise their tax?

    It is all really just a game to them; watch Balls and you can see him perpetually smirking "suckas!" at us all.

    Damian McBride will return as a consultant to No 10 as soon as the election date is decided.

    The joke's on us.

  • Comment number 92.

    #83 Jaded_Jean

    "Liberal-Democratic anarchist's (narcissisitic) delusion."

    I see the Haw Haw's are busy as usual.

    To no avail the proponents of the ideology that dare not speak its name can never really put forward their genuine beliefs not because of moderators but because of cowardice.

    They don't believe in democracy;they like eugenics; like race "realism"; are hazy about the Holocaust; enthuse about planned economies as used by Hitler and Mussolini; they dislike ANTI-fascists.

    They aren't Nazis or the BNP.

    By the way everybody who disagree's with their crackpot views is an anarchist so I make that about 99.9% of the UK.

    They will persuade a few illiterates (arrested developed!) to their views - the Baby P batterer is/was an illiterate and enthusiastic about the Nazis. I think the would-be paedophile nail bomber who was jailed last year was not bright. The Twickenham Green murderer was not bright. by the looks. Not sure about the would be "SS Manual" Lowestoft train station bomber.

    But the delusion for them is that they are "intellectuals".

    Genetic variation is greater within a race than between races. There is no basis for race "realism".

    Race "realism" is not even on the scientific agenda.

    The real Springtime For Hitler mob lecture on delusion!



  • Comment number 93.

    Kudos to Newsnight mods!

    My Easter Monday experiment has thrown up some interesting results.

    My identical post (85. Well, sans typo/omission in the others, can't believe clarifying I was not being rude about the US prez made it less acceptable elsewhere) here and in a few other operational threads up in a trice, and still there.

    Yet... across a few others, either modded or referred to same.

    Different folk... or different rules (and, if so, which 'broken'?) ? Whichever way, 'very interesting, but...' (You have to be old enough to remember Rowan and Martin's Laugh In).

    Certainly unique, but... in so many ways.

  • Comment number 94.

    8. At 11:48am on 13 Apr 2009, brossen99
    It would appear that the government are seriously considering a " Car Scrap " scheme for " old " vehicles, namely cars over 9 years old.


    Really? I thought when this latest brainwave was floated the near universal scorn heaped on the logic as much as the timing (not to mention it being headlined in some less challenging media as new evidence of a 'Green Gordon' - harnessing the rpm of his spins in the green arena might well work, mind).

    Frustrating if.. when it comes to pass. When the missus totalled our '97 Volvo, I used the compo to upgrade to an '02 LPG version.

    If I had held out I could have got £2k (a lot more than Norwich Union quoted me grumpy on) towards a 6 Litre Jag to keep Gordon and Oh Lord Peter in votes, and Mr. Tata in offshore profits to share where they will do the most.. er... 'good'.

    How that actually helps the car industry or planet, I'm not so sure. But these are the folk with decades of experience with the economy, bringing it to... where it is now. Knees up, Mother!

    My website has a wee jobby that checks for naughty words. Typing this in to my blog suggests it is a load of s****page.

  • Comment number 95.

    just a thought

    Re: ‘essential’ politics
    AFFINITY IN PERCEPTION OF MULTI RACIAL PEOPLE
    DOES NOT EQUAL
    AFFINITY IN
    POLITICO-SEXUAL OR, OTHERWISE PUT,
    SEXUALLY CHARGED POLITICS,
    ALAS
    &
    AMEN

  • Comment number 96.

    BUY! BUY! BUY! RUNNING DOGS

    "If they have started killing us, we (pirate groups) have decided to take revenge and kill any American or French crew or passenger members of ships we capture fishing in our seas," Jaama Siyad, a pirate spokesman told local Shabelle radio in Mogadishu.

    Siyad said pirate gangs were in agreement that if any group hijack a ship with either a crew or a passenger from France or the U.S. they would immediately "shot them in the head".


    Chinaview 14 April

    So say semi-literate (sorry, linguistically-deferred-pass') terrorists (aka pirates) on the high seas.

    Don't let any of this put you off your cruises, distract you from what Wall Street and City of London land-lubbing pirates are up to, or put you off your Easter retail therapy. Rest assure that we had more shoppers this Easter than this time last year - put down to the weak pound!

    David Attenborough has been roped in as patron to say inffectively canutist things on behalf of the OPT about over-population. All he will do is distract people here from, and even contribute to, our catastrophically below replacement level European birth rates! :-(

  • Comment number 97.

    #96 Hhhhmmm Jean I went out to a major shopping centre yesterday, there was no one around in the shops, and very little shopping being done. As it's a cathedral city, there were a lot of sight see'ers about, paddling down the river, and there were families in the restuarants.

    I went shopping yesterday, I joined a charity, one that helps the animals survive in the wild, as opposed from humans.

    And yes I was thinking what will Jean say! ; ) I wish David would be even more outspoken, and actually say what the rest of us would like to say, there are too many births in the third world!!! He meets many of these people, why doesn't he bring it up there, we never get the chance. The only comment I would make, that the west can do to help these poorer people, is to help the children, just two, to survive to become old. And yes I can see the european birth rate plummeting yet still further, my children already speak of only having one child, because of world population.

  • Comment number 98.

    ecolizzy (#97) This won't go down well with some, but population concerns target the wrong group (I fear by design), although many of those particpating probably don't appreciate how they're being fielded. To see the true beneficiaries of many of these movements one has to dispassionately examine group population base-rates (observed minus expected frequencies, assuming The Null-Hypothesis), and where one sees marked discrepancies (e.g. the House of Lords, control of the retail and property sectors), stick with that, i.e outcomes/consequences, as all that basically matters. Intentions or 'reasons' don't matter (as some might naively try to explain to the likes of Derek Draper).

  • Comment number 99.

    Newsnight will Damian McBride be called before a HoC committee at some point to confirm that he did actually come up with the email idea alone and there were no hints from above?

  • Comment number 100.

    #97 #98 Not the BNP News

    I think the vast majority of the UK's happy multicultural population will be extremely keen to make sure that race "realists", who admire Hitler and eugenics, don't get anywhere near the levers of population control or influence others.

    But with "intellectuals" like those that post on this page that isn't going to happen.


 

Page 1 of 2

BBC © 2014 The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.