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Tuesday, 26 February, 2008

  • Newsnight
  • 26 Feb 08, 10:55 AM

Today's programme producer is Dan Kelly - here is his early email to the production team.

Good morning, some strong stories today,

Susan Watts has a very strong story on the vulnerability of Chip and Pin machines. The research has been carried out by Professor Ross Anderson's team, and illustrates how relatively easy it is to tap into a machine and create a cloned card. Could this explain the increasing number of "phantom withdrawals" form customers’ cards reported across the UK?

The anti-depression report plastered across today's papers is interesting - but will it feel very old by tonight? Do you have guest suggestions that could move the story on?

Jackie is in Jersey. Senator Syvret claims to have evidence that previous child abuse allegations on the island were covered up. We'll look at the evidence and see if it's worth pursuing.

The Turkish Government is to publish a new version of the Hadith - the collected sayings of the Prophet Muhammad - taking out what are sometimes regarded as harsh and misogynistic messages. What will be the reaction across the Islamic world? Could this be the beginning of a "Reformation" in Islam (as some claim)? Who could we have on to discuss this?

There are also some interesting developments on the MPs’ expenses story at Westminster.

How should we cover these stories? What other suggestions do you have?

Dan

I forgot to mention, we have an interview with Ralph Nader too

Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 01:07 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Pat Collis wrote:

This morning I have kept thinking about the off-air exchange between Stuart Syvret and the Chief Minister of Jersey shown in the item on last night's item about the Haut de la Garonne children's home. I was as chilled as I remember being on watching David Frost's famous interview of Emil Savundra years ago. The reported instances of child abuse and paedophilia are bad enough, but the sickening feeling in my stomach has made me realise that if the authorities covered this up (to preserve their tourist trade or banking industry?)then this is an even more awful offence. Please, if you can do so legally, continue to follow this up.

I realise that your email is addressed to your team, but in your proposed item on depression I hope you will be able to interview someone in the public eye who has actually been helped by anti-depressants, as I have been. I have been sufficiently depressed in the past to be referred to a psychiatrist and the old tricyclic antidepressants helped me enormously, even though they did take about a week to give the slightest glimmer of light through the clouds. It is almost impossible to describe to other people, but when you are clinically depressed you know you are living in your normal world but it does not feel normal or familiar, so in effect it becomes a nightmare from which you cannot wake up. It is a situation in which no normal person would want to remain in for a moment longer than necessary, as real as the pain from a broken bone - I've had them too.

I know it is fashionable to slag off anti-depressants these days, and indeed I am not absolutely sure myself of the great efficacy of some of the newer drugs (Prozac being the only one I have been prescribed), but I hope you will not give the impression that all anti-depressants are little more than placebos. Some do actually change the chemicals in your brain and make you feel better, when your own mind and body cannot do this themselves. I might even be prepared to argue that placebos can be useful to a limited extent if they give the sufferer some hope that they will soon begin to feel better.

I often wonder what happened to badly depressed people 150 years ago - my theory is that they probably succumbed to the next infectious illness.

I am not particularly keen for these comments to be posted, but hope they will be read by the production team.

  • 2.
  • At 02:04 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Jeanette Eccles wrote:

It's amusing with Newsnight first the markets are wrong now the wrong papers are being shown at the end the Mirror did not run with a Macca story..least not where i live

  • 3.
  • At 02:05 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Nick Thornsby wrote:

The chip and pin thing sounds a bit worrying. I and most other people readily enter a pin number anywhere, and don't consider the possible security issues.

I think the depression drugs story would be interesting-especially if you can get some people on who say it has helped.

By the way, where is Gavin? Not seen him for a while.

SUGGESTION

Mrs Justice Rafferty said she had no idea of Bellfield's reason for brutal killing. Perhaps it is easier to to be a judge when you don't understand?
I was a vicious, angry child. While consumed in my rages, I was totally unconcerned with injury or death - only misery and hate. I am still negative and angry as a default attitude, but channel it to non - lethal use. My suggestion is that you might like to consider whether the low-Testosterone gender should presume to conduct the lives of the high-T one. As a specific: can Jacqui Smith have any visceral appreciation of the male majority of criminals?

INHUMANITY

It is interesting to ponder the cultural contrast in attitude to rage and depression – at least, as they are perceived. We regard rage as culpable – even vilifiable - but depression as regrettable; yet both may arise, unbidden, from the brain’s, structure, programming and/or chemistry. In this clever world of “ever higher achievement” is it not apparent that we lack the wisdom to deal, constructively, with our own nature in all its manifestations?

INHUMANITY

It is interesting to ponder the cultural contrast in attitude to rage and depression – at least, as they are perceived. We regard rage as culpable – even vilifiable - but depression as regrettable; yet both may arise, unbidden, from the brain’s, structure, programming and/or chemistry. In this clever world of “ever higher achievement” is it not apparent that we lack the wisdom to deal, constructively, with our own nature in all its manifestations?

  • 7.
  • At 04:18 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Lisa wrote:

"The Turkish Government is to publish a new version of the Hadith - the collected sayings of the Prophet Muhammad - taking out what are sometimes regarded as harsh and misogynistic messages." Goodness me, Newsnight, you've never wanted to discuss the influence of The Hadith or The Koran on Islamist terrorism before. I love the euphemism "harsh" - you don't say. Or maybe you won't get as far to admit these books have anything to do with Islamist terrorism, just buff up the mysoginistic bit while ignoring the teachings about how to treat non-Muslims: "Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate".

NICE ONE LISA

Are we going to cite that morning prayer: "Blessed be he who did not make me a woman?" It's a mine field out there! Thank God we are Christians; WE are all going to heaven courtesy of Jesus and the rest will get theirs. That'll teach 'em. Ecumenically yours . . .

  • 9.
  • At 05:53 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Bob Goodall wrote:

Dear Newsnight

re the Nader bid for the presidency. perhaps the Democrats need to consider urgently setting up a tactical voting campaign to prevent a split vote handing the office to the Republicans?

best wishes
Bob

  • 10.
  • At 06:27 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • neil robertson wrote:

One of the most interesting Turkish
commentators is the economist Fuat Andic who back in 1996 republished
'The Life and The Political Testament of Ali Pasa' along with a perceptive introduction explaining who this enlightened politician is
for those of us not up on Turkish
history ['The Last of The Ottoman
Grandees: The Life and The Political Testament of Ali Pasa' by Fuat Andic and Suphan Andic, The Isis Press, Istanbul (1996)]. I now see that
Professor Andic has another piece
published more recently about the
influence of emigré intellectuals
who fled from Nazi persecution on
modernisation in Turkey under Kemal Ataturk: http://www.rewi.hu-berlin.de/FHI/articles/0707andic_reisman.htm and that also gives an email contact for this article's authors.

There is a passing referenc to the situation in Cyprus which has just
elected a Greek Communist as the
President of the Greek part of an
island that is on the cusp of the
great divide between the EU and of
Turkey. I'd hesitate to comment on
what my old spiring partner Fuat would make of that (newsworthy?)
development as my recollection
of the tutorial he once gave me
on the collapse of the Ottoman
Empire [while we were holed up
in a Lebanese restaurant during
a power black-out in war-torn
Monrovia]was that on economic
theories, Dr Andic preferred
the fiscal policies of Alan
Peacock and the liberalism
of Young Turks like Boris
Johnson to the likes of Marx.

But today's FT editorial on
the new president of Cyprus
argues that his politics are
perhaps less important than
the mood for change and the
influence of European Union
on historic attitudes and
antipathies in that region?

So these would be some of
my suggestions for people
to discuss these issues -
Dr Fuat Andic and Boris,
to be joined by perhaps The
Archbishop of Canterbury?!

  • 11.
  • At 07:27 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • John wrote:

Could we please have a follow up to the Annapolis conference? I know the BBC is obsessed with US elections and running scared of Israel/Palestine, but in the scheme of things the outcomes in the Holy Lands are very much more important than Nader.

  • 12.
  • At 07:59 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • John wrote:

502
Service not available.

This section of the BBC site is consistently broken, please sort it out.

  • 13.
  • At 10:06 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Dave Badger wrote:

As it was myself who made all correspondence with Egg in this alleged fraud case I will put the case straight for them, As they have made another false statement “ well they have been shamed into answering their correspondence this time” The vital information they required was a general questionnaire that repeats the questions asked when the credit account was reported out of order. “VITAL” Egg were advised the form would not be returned due to the case been investigated. During this enquiry there were six letters sent to Egg by recorded delivery asking questions like why are you investigating the wrong card.
1. What was the number assigned to the Egg card that expired in January 2007?
1. A new card was issued in December what was the number assigned to that card?
2. What date was the above replacement card sent out to me?
3. What was the expiry date for the above replacement card?
4. What date was the above card activated and by what means?
1. Another card was sent to me in March 2007. What was the card number?
2. What was the expiry date for the above replacement card?
3. What date was this Egg card activated and by what means?

Unfortunately they did not have the decency to answer or acknowledge any of these letters or questions.
The best they could do was write to the police and retract there security experts witness statement. Oh he was wrong they were investigating the wrong card. With a great help from Ross and his team the case was thrown out of court due to no evidence to offer.
Egg state
at no point did we hold our customer liable

Well they still have about £800.00 pounds of Jane’s money and to date have made no attempt to return it. With them removing the money by direct debit after they were advised of the unauthorised action on the account, they must be holding their customer liable. Are they about to issue another retraction statement???
Dave Badger

  • 14.
  • At 11:09 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Dave Badger wrote:

As it was myself who made all correspondence with Egg in this alleged fraud case I will put the case straight for them, As they have made another false statement “ well they have been shamed into answering their correspondence this time” The vital information they required was a general questionnaire that repeats the questions asked when the credit account was reported out of order. “VITAL” Egg were advised the form would not be returned due to the case been investigated. During this enquiry there were six letters sent to Egg by recorded delivery asking questions like why are you investigating the wrong card.
1. What was the number assigned to the Egg card that expired in January 2007?
1. A new card was issued in December what was the number assigned to that card?
2. What date was the above replacement card sent out to me?
3. What was the expiry date for the above replacement card?
4. What date was the above card activated and by what means?
1. Another card was sent to me in March 2007. What was the card number?
2. What was the expiry date for the above replacement card?
3. What date was this Egg card activated and by what means?

Unfortunately they did not have the decency to answer or acknowledge any of these letters or questions.
The best they could do was write to the police and retract there security experts witness statement. Oh he was wrong they were investigating the wrong card. With a great help from Ross and his team the case was thrown out of court due to no evidence to offer.
Egg state
at no point did we hold our customer liable

Well they still have about £800.00 pounds of Jane’s money and to date have made no attempt to return it. With them removing the money by direct debit after they were advised of the unauthorised action on the account, they must be holding their customer liable. Are they about to issue another retraction statement???
Dave Badger

  • 15.
  • At 11:14 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Dave Badger wrote:

As it was myself who made all correspondence with Egg in this alleged fraud case I will put the case straight for them, As they have made another false statement “ well they have been shamed into answering their correspondence this time” The vital information they required was a general questionnaire that repeats the questions asked when the credit account was reported out of order. “VITAL” Egg were advised the form would not be returned due to the case been investigated. During this enquiry there were six letters sent to Egg by recorded delivery asking questions like why are you investigating the wrong card.
1. What was the number assigned to the Egg card that expired in January 2007?
1. A new card was issued in December what was the number assigned to that card?
2. What date was the above replacement card sent out to me?
3. What was the expiry date for the above replacement card?
4. What date was the above card activated and by what means?
1. Another card was sent to me in March 2007. What was the card number?
2. What was the expiry date for the above replacement card?
3. What date was this Egg card activated and by what means?

Unfortunately they did not have the decency to answer or acknowledge any of these letters or questions.
The best they could do was write to the police and retract there security experts witness statement. Oh he was wrong they were investigating the wrong card. With a great help from Ross and his team the case was thrown out of court due to no evidence to offer.
Egg state
at no point did we hold our customer liable

Well they still have about £800.00 pounds of Jane’s money and to date have made no attempt to return it. With them removing the money by direct debit after they were advised of the unauthorised action on the account, they must be holding their customer liable. Are they about to issue another retraction statement???
Dave Badger

  • 16.
  • At 11:31 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Alain wrote:

I can't believe a word of what Sandra Q is saying, For almost 2 years now, i am staked with my Bank in court over fraudulent withdrawals in an account i held with them when £2100.00 went missing.
the bank has consistently refused to give me access to evidences upon which they got to their decision and the first i saw at the court was computers printouts and blah blah, funny enough, it seems their expert witness is someone from APACS, who is saying in his evidence that Apacs is not aware of any possibility of a cloned card been used at uk ATM machines, i am wondering if he does work in the same organization with Sandra!
Its time the banks bear the burden of proof in disputed transactions and the FOS to be scrap, I would really like to get in touch with Jane as she could be an interesting witness in my upcoming court hearing.
I don't know how much the bank owing me money would be declaring as profit very soon, but the government should take some steps in protecting consumers in disputes where an organization like a bank is refusing to accept liability for a plausible error.
In the mean time, my life is on hold while the Bank is ready to start celebration while their staffs swim in bonuses.

  • 17.
  • At 11:36 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Alain wrote:

I can't believe a word of what Sandra Q is saying, For almost 2 years now, i am staked with my Bank in court over fraudulent withdrawals in an account i held with them when £2100.00 went missing.
the bank has consistently refused to give me access to evidences upon which they got to their decision and the first i saw at the court was computers printouts and blah blah, funny enough, it seems their expert witness is someone from APACS, who is saying in his evidence that Apacs is not aware of any possibility of a cloned card been used at uk ATM machines, i am wondering if he does work in the same organization with Sandra!
Its time the banks bear the burden of proof in disputed transactions and the FOS to be scrap, I would really like to get in touch with Jane as she could be an interesting witness in my upcoming court hearing.
I don't know how much the bank owing me money would be declaring as profit very soon, but the government should take some steps in protecting consumers in disputes where an organization like a bank is refusing to accept liability for a plausible error.
In the mean time, my life is on hold while the Bank is ready to start celebration while their staffs swim in bonuses.

  • 18.
  • At 11:44 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Rose Howard wrote:

When the reports are published regarding the decision to invade Iraq,will we be seeing the report where the Attorney General declared it illegal in the morning and legal in the afternoon.and the reasons for which he changed his mind

  • 19.
  • At 11:44 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Rich wrote:

I am very surprised that the data from the 'chip & pin' terminals is not encrypted; I assumed it was. If the banks want to protect their 'name', let alone their customers, then this problem must be dealt with now, not in 4 months time - note Paxman elicited the fact that their are a million terminals in UK.

The technology has been introduced too rapidly, and so has inevitable bugs. If only I could pay for all goods & services in cash - or perhaps I will start to do that tomorrow, along with millions of other Brits.

  • 20.
  • At 11:54 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Rose Howard wrote:

When the reports are published regarding the decision to invade Iraq,will we be seeing the report where the Attorney General declared it illegal in the morning and legal in the afternoon.and the reasons for which he changed his mind

  • 21.
  • At 11:55 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Rose Howard wrote:

When the reports are published regarding the decision to invade Iraq,will we be seeing the report where the Attorney General declared it illegal in the morning and legal in the afternoon.and the reasons for which he changed his mind

  • 22.
  • At 12:00 AM on 27 Feb 2008,
  • mike wrote:

Chip and Pin. Glad that someone has finally dared to air this issue. Sad for the poor woman who had been sent on to lie and could hardly speak at times. The banks will not go on the record even now; nearly a year ago a friendly bank employee told me off the record that chip and pin had been hacked. Since then I have only used credit cards online at secure sites of retailers I know, with a physical shop address, or in real no cash emergencies (and if it's a supermarket or, particularly, a petroil station, I try to get a good look at the machine). Normally I use a cash card to draw cash from my bank's machines or a few other in the wall machines which I know, and when paying in person I use cash. We used to have a more secure biometric system - the signature. I suspect this was withdrawn because staff couldn't be bothered to check it properly. Anyway, as long as you are prepared to hit muggers you can defend your cash, but you can't defend your card from hackers.

  • 23.
  • At 09:30 AM on 27 Feb 2008,
  • Keith Owen wrote:

Concerning Chip and PIN. I'm furious!!!
My son has been fighting an illegitimate withdrawl against his Lloyds account. Quote Laurie-Anne Bright of ATM Settlements.
'Our review shows that the disputed transactions were authorised by the correct PIN being input and the card being present'.....'We are therefore satisfied that the transactions were made by someone with access to your card and knoweldege of your PIN, and under these circumstances we are unable to refund the withdrawals'.

Yes.It's quite obvious that some fraudster had access to these details and I want the bank to do something about this on his behalf!!
Help!! how do I escalate this further given that Sandra Quinn stated that the burden of proof is on the bank?!

Frustrated,

keith Owen

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