Nappies: A messy situation
- 7 Aug 08, 10:48 AM GMT
When I collected all my rubbish for a month, I calculated that my son used about 120 disposable nappies, a fifth of our household's total plastic waste.
Added to that were disposable wipes (usually made from polyester, although sometimes paper) in plastic packets, individual plastic bags for the smelliest nappies and liners for the bin.
Disposable nappies are made from absorbent wood pulp fluff, held between layers of synthetic fabric.
The fluff contains a super absorbent polymer (crystals of sodium polyacrylate gel that swell to contain moisture) and the nappy is backed with a thin plastic sheet.
According to the Environment Agency, the 2.5 bn disposable nappies sold in the UK each year become 400,000 tonnes of waste in landfill, or, to put it another way, 2-3% of all household rubbish.
Reusable cloth nappies avoid the problems of landfill although the Environment Agency found in its 2005 lifecycle analysis report (pdf) that they do have other environmental impacts, especially related to washing.
This, said the agency, means that the overall environmental impact of disposable and reusable nappies is equal - although "Real Nappy" campaigners dispute the findings.
To avoid plastic waste, however, it was clear I would have to switch to reusables.
With the help of The Nappy Lady website which gives personalised nappy advice, I even found a totally plastic and polyester-free option - tie-on organic cotton nappies with knitted wool pants over the top.
My advisor, Susanna, warned that this was not a nappy she would normally recommend and suggested I bought some of the popular "shaped" cloth nappies as back-up.
This turned out to be sound advice. Not only have tying the nappies onto a wriggling, independent 18-month-old been very difficult (a customer on the website described it as "attempting origami on an escapologist") but the wool pants have been a nightmare.
To make them waterproof before first use, they require soaking in lanolin overnight, rinsing and then drying, which takes the best part of 36 hours as you can't tumble dry them.
Furthermore, I hadn't realised that I needed to do this three times for the lanolin to take full effect.
In short, he has worn them once and I have spent the rest of the week hand-washing, lanolinising and drying wool pants. I shall persevere, however, as I don't feel I have given them a fair trial yet.
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The other reusables have been more successful so far. They do contain some plastic but, as I bought them before the experiment started and will not be throwing them away, they do not break the terms of the challenge.
They comprise a 90% cotton, 10% polyester towelling nappy of roughly the same shape as a disposable nappy, which fastens with Velcro-style tabs.
The nappy soaks up the moisture and a paper liner is meant to catch the poo for flushing away (although this is much less straightforward and more messy than it sounds).
A polyurethane / polyester "wrap" over the top keeps the wetness from reaching the outside world. Used nappies and cloth wipes are stored in a lidded bin and then washed at 60 degrees.
However, I must admit to needing a fallback to my fallback.
As a cloth nappy novice, I have yet to get my washing routine in sync with requirements so we have run out of clean, dry nappies several times.
Plus the first two days were a write-off as even the towelling nappies needed washing and drying before wearing in order to make them absorbent.
In these instances I have been using Nature Babycare disposable nappies, which contain bio-plastic made from corn-starch and claim to be 60% biodegradable (although as with all biodegradable materials it depends on what conditions they end up in.)
However, even bio-plastic counts as plastic - so I will have to add them to my monthly total.
The alternative - going without a nappy at all - was not something I was willing to contemplate. Maybe early potty training is not such a bad idea.
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My name's Chris Jeavans. For one month I am attempting to live my normal life with one main change - no new plastic. That means no bags, no packaging, no plastic to hang around in landfill. In this blog I'll keep you updated to let you know how I'm getting on.
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Congratulations again! I saw you on Breakfast this morning and could see that the nappies issue could be 'challenging'. I don't have children so it wouldn't affect me. However, I do have a dog....how would I soop the poop in an environmentally sound fashion? I use a plastic bag.....
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Babies and toddlers in many countries don't wear nappies. In India, babies are often wrapped in layers of cloth, and if they get wet, they get wet. Maybe messy, but they certainly get toilet-trained much quicker than their nappy-wearing counterparts in the West.
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You may find that early potty training will come more easily with non-disposables.
My parents reckon that children were trained earlier in times past because they could feel they were wearing a nappy and felt less comfortable so were more keen to get rid of them.
With disposables it is too easy for the child to forget they are wearing a nappy at all.
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Just one question, did the bin men manage to collect you rubbish yesterday?
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our daughter has been in cloth nappies since she was 2 weeks old. they are cheaper than disposables and we didn't like the thought of all those chemicals next to her skin. as another bonus she was potty trained at 23months and there was no effort on our part.
we would recommend them environmentally and finacially.
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We're another cloth nappy using family, and can't speak highly enough of them. If you've got the right nappies for your needs then I'm sure you won't be going back to disposables at the end of your plastic free month!
Once you're in the routine of it, it's really no hassle. In fact it's much less hassle than having to lug armfuls of disposables back from the supermarket every week, and the landfill issue really bothers me.
If there was greater awareness of the availability and convenience of modern cloth nappies then I'm sure many more people would use them.
cjtsmith: I think most people would now say that modern cloth nappies are actually more comfortable than disposables (think: paper pants)!
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Hi, I use wonderoos pocket nappies and have bought enough so I only need to do one load of washing a week so very little impact in this respect. And as I hope to use them on number 2 baby as well (and hopefully sell them on after) this will save a lot of many and a lot of landfill too. I also made my own wipes out of old towels, which are much more effective than packet wet wipes, and make my own lotion to put on them. I wash them with the nappies.
We're far from perfect on the eco front though, we still use naturecare disposables if we go on hols...
Going back to previous comments, packaging really gets my goat too. I've got a good mind to save up all the plastic packaging which can't be recycled and deliver it back to the supermarket when I've got enough. Perhaps someone could arrange a particular day for everyone to do this - perhaps they already have??
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What? Paper nappies = piles of garbage - cloth ones create water problems. The only way out is to stop having babies.
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We are on our 2nd child and are using the same washable nappies as our first. We had to buy some new outers as the originals were shot but have saved a fortune in nappy costs. We also only wash them at 30 degrees (50 every now and again if really stained) using Eco-balls (no washing powder) and some conditioner to give them a bit of a nice smell and soften them a bit.
Our first child (a boy) was dry during the day at 18 months.
The Environmental Agency research you mention has since been found to be biased as it was carried out by a group consisting of the main few disposable nappy firms! I seem to remember the EA admitting this.
Well done and continuing good luck with your experiment.
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I used cloth nappies for all 3 of my children and after they had finished with them, they were great for window cleaning cloths, floorcloths and had a myriad of other household uses. I actually threw them out when I moved house for a second time as they hadn't all worn out. I regret this now as I have to buy cleaning cloths instead.
My children are now 25, 23 and 20 so disposable nappies were in their infancy while they were small. Having used them once while on holiday, I found them fairly useless and made extra washing as I had to wash clothes and bedding instead due to leakage. I never had with the squares of terry towelling and a well placed nappy pin.
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We used terries with Nappy Nippers and washable waterproof outer pants and they were brilliant, I soaked them in bicarb of soda instead of the chemical stuff and used flushable liners. Initial outlay was quite high (they were a present from my mum) but saved us a packet in the long run. I wish I had had them for my first child as well, but I passed them on to someone else. I still have rags made from nappies my aunty used for my cousin in the sixties, so I hope our terries will still be going strong in forty years time.
As to biodegradable nappies they take a long time to disappear, friends used them and put them in their compost bin, they were there for months.
You can't beat hanging a load of clean nappies on the line for sheer satisfaction.
We even managed without a dryer as they dry lovely over the radiators.
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Sounds like hard work, I'm not really sure what the benefit is in not using plastic? More wasted food due to damage or degradation? Nappy rash?. Washing is not impact free, until the recent hikes in cost of fuel and the last couple of poor summers the worry was that the world would run out of water. Some commentators were even predicting wars over supply of water.
The full life cycle analysis on disposables vs. reusables suggests that the benefit is marginal. It's no fluke that our health and sanitation is well above that in other parts of the world that don't use nappies (like Africa and Asia). Plastic is good - it serves a purpose and those purposes has significant benefits.
I would think we need to focus on getting energy back from the waste rather than just landfilling or transferring the problem to use of water, detergent . Why not support an incinerator to recover the energy from waste?
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Dear Christine,
First of all, a great well done for bringing to the attention of the public the problem of the massive waste of plastic packaging which is one of the biggest problems of the "modern" civilization.
Nevertheless, I disagree with the contents of the paragraph "Under-packaging - worse?" in your article "A month without plastic" of the 1st August. I have heard this argument before on the radio, and I am quite upset that such a misleading remark, which is commonly used by PR specialists of all the major distribution chains, would be presented in your otherwise extremely well informed article.
Does anyone really believe that the UK Packaging Federation cares whether we throw away food or not? The truth is that to increase the shelf life of food is extremely important for their globalized supply chain. They need fruits to last several weeks after being picked up, because this way they can import them from the other side of the world. This is extremely valuable to them, because they can impose any price they wish to poor farmers from developing countries. On the other hand, if the food was produced in the UK, they wouldn't be able to lobby the farmers as much as they would wish. A big farmers strike in the UK would be very bad publicity for Tesco or Asda. Much better to move the production in Africa, or in China, or in Southern America, where the farmers can just be controlled by the local government (often a dictatorship) and blackmailed by alternative supply routes if the farmers were to ask for fair trade prices. But to do this, the food has to last at least as long as a sea trip halfway through the world, hence the need of huge amounts of otherwise useless packaging.
Moreover, the food is shipped from far away in large container ships, which consume hundreds of tons of gasoline for each trip and routinely pollute large swaths of coast when they drown, most of the time due to luck of maintenance to increase the profit margin of the distribution companies. Moreover local UK farmers cannot compete with the prices imposed to overseas producers, leading to job losses. Finally, the petrochemical factories producing all this plastic packaging pollute the environment with their production waste. And of course, all the packaging ends up filling landfill sites and polluting the sea and the rivers.
There is a very simple solution to all this: the government could impose a tax proportional to the real environmental cost of trade. For example, a tax of £ 1 per Kg of packaging could be imposed on any good sold on the market, and a tax of 1 p per 100 miles travelled could be imposed on every Kg of goods transported. Moreover, the production from a site that is polluting in other countries would be charged fines similar to those that would be charged on a polluting factory in the UK. Suddenly, local farmers would find profitable to produce again close to the destination markets and food would not need to be packaged because it would be consumed within days of being produced. People would not waste the food, because they would have paid for it at a fair price. Finally, large companies would not find it convenient to produce their packaging or other products in far away country where the environmental regulations are more relaxed. This would be a fair tax, as it would apply to local as well as worldwide producers. The only people who would not profit from this would be the managers of the large retail societies and the bureaucrats of the developing countries to whom they pay their bribes to keep the farmers quiet and the prices low.
Dear Christine, please do not let the public be mislead by the PR specialists of large retailers that wish to appear environmentally friendly and still carry on making huge profits on the back of good willing customers. The only hope to change this sad state of affairs is through public awareness, which is exactly what PR specialists are hired to avoid by misleading the general public.
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Those knitted pants are hilarious - we saw them at our antenatal class....
We also use terries and shaped nappies with our 18 month old. You do get into the swing of it - and the nappy wash soon becomes automatic (although strangely not for my husband...)
Just a note on that Environment Agency report - the reason it is criticised is because it makes rather generous assumptions about the number of nappies people would buy for each child and the temp at which people wash their nappies (e.g. 95 degrees). We normally wash nappies at 60 degrees, but if they are just wet then 40 degrees is fine (and I often put wet nappies in with towels/sheets).
As for liners we use the flushable paper ones and wash them with the nappies (only the wet ones) so that they can be reused. They normally survive for a wash or two...
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Water isn't something that was made years ago that gets used up and we are going to run out of anytime soon.
Obviously purifying it, pumping it and heating it all require energy, but water is about as closed-loop as anything gets.
Washing at a higher temperature needs more energy than a lower temperature, but requires less detergent (hence fewer nasty detergent residues). And if you have a solar, geothermal or wood-fired water heater, then you don't even have to worry so much about the energy required for heating (the electric pump uses a small amount of energy, but this need not come from fossil fuels).
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We have used cloth nappies on our 20month old since birth, including camping and caravanning holidays.
We use a mixture of several types, including those made from totally natural fabrics including hemp and bamboo with pure wool (often merino or cashmere) covers over the top.
We find them very easy, much better for our baby, not to mention cute and funky.
The wool covers are very easily cared for once you know how. Normally, you would receive them ready lanolised and although they do improve with further soaks, we usually use them straight away. The good thing about them is you only have to wash them occasionally so they are actually very good for us lazy folk!
The good news is, that even if you become addicted to cloth nappies (believe me, VERY likely) and can't stop buying lots of different types, they can still cost considerably less than disposables. There is also a very good market in second-hand nappies.
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Hi There
I have a suggestion: What if disposable nappies were manufactured without the 'plastic' outer layer and were used with an independent, reusable, plastic pant, or 'waterproof', as we used to call them. Then you could dispose of the completely biodegradable inner and you would only need to wash the waterproof outer, instead of loads of terry towel reusable nappies. And if the 'paper' inner was manufactured with a removable and flushable liner, you could flush any messy contents before getting rid of the rest of the disposable nappy.
Good luck with your 'messy situation' and your admirable challenge.
Regards
Vicki
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I've just bought my niece 48 terry towelling nappies for her new twins - she made her mind up to use reusable nappies before they wore born (although at the time she didn't know she was going to have 2 !)
I wish her luck with the washing, drying and ironing (especially in the winter !)
Anyway, I think your doing a cracking job - keep it up!
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Chris, well done for your efforts with washable nappies; once you get into them you'll probably find there is no going back.
Hemp is more absorbent than cotton, so you might like to try those, with a hemp liner if your babe is a heavy wetter (or for nighttime use).
Moltex and Bamboo nature are fully compostable nappies.
You have to pull them apart, but they do particularly well in a wormery. I guess it depends on how many you are using a day as to whether or not this could work for you.
Of course, they probably all come in plastic wrapping!
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I'll be 43 in November, and my mum is still using a few of my old terry nappies as cleaning cloths etc !
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Are there such things as diaper services in the UK? You might consider one, if it's available, and then the whole nappie-washing thing is a non-issue.
In the late 1950's, when my brother and I were babies, my mother signed up for a diaper service. A couple of times a week, a man in a van collected the soiled diapers and dropped off a big bag of freshly-cleaned ones from a commercial laundry. The service could be renewed monthly, as long as needed. She always said it was the best money she ever spent.
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Isnt the Nappy Lady just fab. I used reusables for my DD and have just finished with them now as she is completely dry day and night. She trained in the day at 2 but nights have taken abit longer.
Can I suggest our system to you. We used to wash everyother day when she was in full time cloth. In the evening after bathtime the washer went on and if your washer has a function to spin seperately I would suggest you do an extra spin at the end as this will get alot of extra water out. The nappies were then hung on the airer over night and the next morning put on the line if the weather obliged.
Hope thats of some help
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I used terry nappies for all of my 3 children and I had no problems. I refused to use disposables as I thought it an insult for the refuse men to be expected to have to take them away. Plus the fact that they are NOT really disposable, just out of sight out of mind!
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We used cloth nappies with both our kids (now 7 and 3). We did use woolen wraps, but only really night time. It is a bit of a faff for all the time use compared to the breathable plastic wraps. We found a lot of difference in terms of performance of the wool wraps between different ones.
Other than that, things like washing is just something that you just get used to the routine of. We had more nappies than we 'needed' which meant that we had plenty of time to wash one lot before they were needed again.
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We have been using terries with my son since he was born and hes 2 now. We do use biodegradable disposables at night or if we go on holiday or away for the day - we arent perfect by any means.
We have had no problems with the issues that people often bring up with terries- ie nappy rash. In fact the only time we have had is when we had to buy him some Pamper while on a trip out and he turned out to have some sort of contact reaction with the leg bands which saw the poor little fellas legs turn bright red!
Our main reason for using terries was the thought of all those chemcials in disposables up against his skin- it cant be good for them!
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ncbrown:
It's honestly not hard work to use cloth nappies. How hard is it to put a load of washing on?
And to be honest many people find that they end up doing fewer clothes washes anyway as cloth nappies can be much more reliable at keeping mess in than disposables are.
It is also not true that cloth nappies cause nappy rash. Nappy rash is usually caused by not changing soiled nappies quickly enough, regardless of what kind of nappy it is.
The lifecycle analysis in the EA report was flawed as other people have pointed out, and we are still waiting for a revised version to be produced.
Yes our health and sanitation is better than some other (poorer) countries, but the main reason for this is certainly not *plastic*. In fact as poorer countries develop and start to use more items that are perceived there as luxuries (eg disposable nappies) then health and sanitation problems are likely to increase, not decrease. Disposable nappies are no more hygenic than cloth ones and they hang around being full of human waste for an awful lot longer...
Incinerators cause there own problems. Carbon emmissions??
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#2 fazzae: Example you described sounds terrible but is understandable when talking about India. I do NOT see this as a good training as you say. It's disgusting and dangerous. And obviously this option is used because of poverty or low education etc.
Not only are the poor kids smelly all day. They also get a rush and several healt problems.
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When we were expecting our daughter (she is 18 months now) we were told how great reusable nappies were, great for the environment, and could save you a bit too. We were sold and decided to invest in a birth to potty set that cost about 220 pounds (Bambino Mio). We were all prepared and ready for the washing ect and it wasn't going to be a big deal for us.
Then our daughter arrived and the was one problem, they leaked. We tried all of the different folds over and over and it just didn't work. We contacted Bambino's help line and watched the videos on their websites, copied exactly but still they leaked.
It was a total waste of money pure and simple
Maybe other brands are better but we weren't going to take the risk and so went disposable, they work a million times better.
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We had intended to use reusable nappies but then when our daughter arrived reality kicked in! We have friends who use them and they seem to soak right through. The benefits to the environment and the financial benefits seem pretty marginal for all the hassle.
Interesting point re the potty training though. If baby feels uncomfortable then she is going to learn to use the potty sooner. We are hoping to potty train our daughter early (she's now 8 months) but perhaps using disposable nappies is not going to help her learn.
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We've used cloth nappies since our first daughter was born and have had no problems at all. It's saved us piles of money and 40 black sacks full of pooey nappies each year for each child.
My wife is a bit of an addict and keeps buying funky new ones so the range of clips and poppers and inserts is now a bit mind-boggling but even as a mere Dad I can cope. There's an option for every lifestyle from terigami squares to all-in-one use-'em-and-wash-'em. No pins, just nippas or poppers or velcro. Even some of the flushable liners can go in the wash if they're just wet.
We wash at 40 degrees every other day. The pocket nappies dry overnight on the airer and the rest jump in the tumble drier and are done in about 60 minutes. Google cloth nappy addicts for more nappy nutters!
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As the father of (now) 6-month-old twins who have been in cloth nappies from day 1, I really can't understand the fuss people make about reusable nappies.
They're easy to put on (the marvellous plastic nipper is a great invention), they don't leak, they don't cause nappy rash, they come in great designs and textures, they're a doddle to wash and not being in a bin that's only emptied by the wretched council once a fortnight, they don't smell either. It doesn't take a PhD in accountancy to work out that they're significantly cheaper, too -- not only to buy but to 'maintain'.
The analysis report you refer to makes some very questionable assumptions about quantities and types of detergent and frequency of washing / tumble-drying (we don't tumble-dry, for example), and needs urgent updating.
It's not really any trouble to put a couple of loads of washing on of an evening even after a full day's work. As I say, I just can't understand the fuss people make about this.
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#5 aquaverity: Good on you! The earliest potty training the better:)
I agree with you on those cloth nappies as our mums used them and except of washing and hanging about 20of them daily there wasn't any problem. I wish it could stay this way - now when we have modern washing machines and thumble driers it would be so much easier....
But todays women are different - too much work, too little time for kids, not even mention the housework.... There's always some nanny or aupair around. No wonder most of them rather buy plastic nappies as they can chuck them in the bin without further problems for them.
Still I'm just little bit concerned about the washing - of course it has to be washed on 60degrees or pre-washed to make sure our babies get really clean nappies.
But how about all those detergents. They also cause harms to the environment.
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I would assume that disposables were invented to lessen the burden, and technological advances have increased their efficiency over time. If you choose to use a leaky, labour intensive (well, an extra wash or two) nappy system for environmental reasons, forsaking the advances made over Terry, credit must be due. The diaper angel in my house would fear to tread there.
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#8 jimciotti: With no offense - I bet you're glad that your parents didn't think the same way as you do!
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My parents used terry nappies on me and my brothers (23, 22, and 20 now) - all of us were potty trained before the age of 2, and my youngest brother is famous for refusing to wear a nappy at night at 19 months, and never wet the bed!
My husband and I intend to wait a few years before starting a family, so I'm looking forward to the many reusable options that will have come on the market then as more people look to reduce their landfill contributions and save money.
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I too tried to be environmentally friendly 30 - 40 years ago when my children were small.I ended up washing continuously day and night and come winter time could not get the terry nappies dry even though I had 30 - 40 of them. No tumble driers in those days. To use terry nappies nowadays you would also be continuously using the washing machine and tumble drier - using even more energy - environmentally friendly? I don't think so. Stick with the disposable nappies and save your sanity and money!
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One of the problems with the environmental report claiming that traditional nappies have just as much impact on the environment as disposables is it assumed nappies are just used for one baby. As a mother of three who used traditional nappies the nappies did all three from start to finish. They did wear plastic pants over them, but 3 pairs of plastic pants use less plastic than a week's worth of packaging and last a long time. I did have a good number of nappies so that I could wash a full load and dry them without running out, (it was traditional drying too, no tumble dryer they were just starting to appear and were very expensive to buy and run).
I did not rush them into toilet training, but left it till they were almost 2 years old. Just two weeks of walking round the house "bottomless" so they could get to the potty in time when they needed it and they were toilet trained except for the night.
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I used disposables with my son until he was 11 months old. I even laughed at the idea of reusables. After all who would want to go to all that hassle? At 11 months we started getting serious leak problems with disposables. All that gel that expands when they wee? Imagine waking up to find your child completely covered in it where he wees so much in the night that the lining bursts. Not nice!
So I took a serious look at reusables and after a few nights of trial and error found a system that worked for us. I now use cloth nappies full time and I can honestly say I will never go back. I've found them no more hassle than disposables and we also encounter much less nappy rash and almost no leaks! We're a big household so our washing machine goes on every night regardless and after the mess has been flushed down the loo the nappies just get put in with regular washing.
If I remember correctly the EA report compares disposables with washing cloth on 90 then tumbling and ironing. I've never ironed a nappy in my life and don't understand why anyone would need to!
Chris: when it comes to using wool, you can use a wool wrap a few times in between when you're first lanolising it so it becomes a bit less of a chore. Once you've done it that 3 times you'll probably only need to lanolise again once a month. It becomes much less hassle once you've done the initial setup. Good luck!
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PhantomFoot - you make some interesting points about 'reality' kicking in, soaking through, cost benefits and environmental benefits.
Reality kicking in - it can be a daunting prospect when baby first arrives - you're almost in a state of shock anyway and to try washing nappies so soon seems like madness - but it soon becomes second nature. I suppose the difference is that it feels different and there is so much disposable nappy paraphernalia so you don't need to think about things it seems like an easier route.
Soaking through - it's a sad fact that people often don't ask for help. because you feel a bit isolated in a world of disposable nappies it feels like there's no help - but there's lots of it. There are real nappy forums all over the web with loads of cloth nappy addicts happy to help. There are also nappy support groups (google Nappucion!) We boosted our nappies with micofibre cloths from any supermarket and cheaper than chips.
Cost benefits - you can get a full set of birth to potty nappies and bags or buckets for under £280. You can get 132 Pampers for £16 in a popular supermarket - that's about 12p each. Maybe 6 changes a day for ONE year will cost £265. Go for 2 years, that's double, not including baby wipes and nappy sacks.
Environmental benefits. Even if the (disputed) 2005 report does indicate that the environmental benefits are even, it's still the case that you would save FORTY sacks of disposable nappies every year for each child. The 2005 report makes lots of assumptions that don't match reality - such as using nappies for one child when you can use them for all children and then sell them on, washing at 60 degrees when 40 is all you need, tumble drying them when old fashioned sunshine will do and so on.
And what's more - there are loads of nappy trial schemes. Several councils offer nappy libraries for parents to try for a few weeks to see what it's like. To anyone thinking about using reusable nappies I can only say - have a go. You have nothing to lose and you can always change your mind.
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Duh, Google "Nappucino" not "Nappucion"
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I'm amazed that, in our health and safety obsessed world, parents are allowed to dispose of dozens of soiled nappies in the weekly household rubbish. At worst these surely constitute a bio hazard, at best a disgusting nuisance for the unfortunate refuse collector whose task is already unpleasant enough.
Perhaps local councils should charge extra for collecting soiled nappies, as mine already does for garden waste, and insist they be placed in bright yellow bio hazard bags.
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To be honest I dont think using the types you have are the ideal to convert you to the way of cloth nappying.
The wool pants you describe only need to be lanolised 3 times at the begining then once per month after that! You make it sound like you do it every day.
Also the EA report was seriosly flawed in that it assumed a lot of the findings. No one i have even known irons nappies. I washed all of my daughters nappies every 2-3days using eco balls so there was no chemical detergent issue either. They were done at 40 with one 60C wash evey 2 weeks just to make sure there wasnt anything lurking. I dreid them on the line in summer and airer in the winter. I also have an a+ rated machine. Does the EA report take into consideration the fuel used to get to the shops for nappies? I dont think so.
As for mess with poo, well do potty training kids not soild themselves once or twice and I had a lot more poo to clean up when my daughter was small and in disposable nappies as they leaked everywhere.
As for the sodiom polyacralate(sp) did you know that it is cancerogenic and can kill if swallowed by a child?? It was also taken out of tampons in the 80's as its the most likely cause of toxic shock syndrome.
As for Bambino Mios they have spent all of their money on advertising and not anything on their product.
I admit to using PUL wraps but surely the compromise is still better for the environment as they have lasted my daughter and can be used again by more kids unlike disposables.
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I noticed the report you linked to concerning environmental impact of nappies was commissioned by the Government who had the audacity to claim it to be independent. How can they claim it to be independent when the authors of that report were selected by the Government that commissioned it, and the critical review was, once again, done by someone selected by the Government that commissioned it and selected its authors.
One can hardly accept this report as unbiased and independent by any stretch of even the most wildest imagination.
One also has to wonder how much the corporations who benefit the most from disposable nappy use have contributed to political party coffers in recent times?
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Is packaging reduction worthwhile??
There has been a huge emphasis on packaging as the environmental bogeyman. Every newspaper, pressure group and broadcaster, even government ministers have got it firmly in their head that packaging is the cause of the impending destruction of the ice cap, rain (and other) forests, the main component of landfill, and any other environmental ill you want to throw at it. Especially if it is plastic packaging. This blog is yet another example of the phenomena.
While the wisdom is questioned from time to time, the mantra is regularly trotted out. I have even heard packaging blamed when the discussion on food waste was brought up recently on the radio.
Packaging needs to make a contribution to ?reducing our burden on the worl? but to vilify it in the way this is helping to do is to miss far bigger contributors. Packaging is very visible (it is packaging, it's part of it's function) but it is a relatively small part of the total.
Biffa Waste Services ltd, one of the largest waste management co estimate landfill to consist of
Timber 30%
Food waste; pubs and restaurants 25%
Household; garden, kitchen and DIY 30%
Paper and card; 10%
Plastic; 5%, (this includes plastic packaging.)
Over 90% of world oil production is burned directly for transport or energy production, i.e. used once for fuel.
2% of oil is used for plastics packaging
Why not then burn the plastic packaging after use to recover the energy i.e. use it twice, once as a material and then as a fuel.
In Japan, Scandinavia and other parts of the world incinerators generate electricity and heat for the local community. In Tokyo they are dotted in all parts of the city, among downtown offices , shops and apartments. Pollution from the flue gasses does not seem to be a problem because it isnt. If you have ever been to Japan you will know how sensitive they are to pollutants, they will even wear a face mask to avoid passing on a cold.
Plastic is also long lived in landfill, it doesn?t break down?BAD?.?? Ask a local authority or other waste disposal organisation and they will tell you that it is a good thing. Good ground stability, no anaerobic decomposition giving off methane gas to warm the climate at 20 times the rate for CO2 and no leaching of decomposition products into the water courses. In the last resort, plastic can be mined back out of landfill at some point in the future even if it is just to burn it for power.
I am involved in the plastic packaging industry so I have vested interest. Don?t take my ramblings at face value. The figures are available at the click of a mouse. Check them out for yourself.
What is packaging for?
While you are clicking away you might look for something about the reasons why packaging is there.
We are all aware of the WI view of the wrapped swede or cucumber; It is unnatural, our mothers did not need it. It should not be there!
So why are supermarkets so stubborn about wrapping everything. They are normally so keen to give the consumer what he/she wants. They pride themselves on responding to consumer needs.
According to the Cucumber Growers Association, yes there is such a thing!
?An unwrapped cucumber becomes unsaleable after 3 days
A wrapped one lasts 14 days?
That might be a clue!
Luckily, if only by accident, wanting to make money (which is what all businesses really want to do) helps the environment. Reducing waste or energy use is good business, just as it is for you at home by helping you reduce your gas, electricity and petrol bill.
There are three purposes for packaging
Preserving; keeping the food longer, so it does not go off before we use it.
Protecting; avoiding the food being damaged or contaminated.
Promote or inform; yes the pretty picture telling you what is in the pack, but also the legal requirements, the nutritional information, the ingredients, the allergy and keeping instructions. Not to mention, where to complain.
It?s all about lifestyle.
Packaging has given us things our parents and grandparents, could not even dream of.
When a ?woman?s job? was looking after the home, they could do the shopping on a daily basis. The butcher, the baker, greengrocer etc could provide fresh food daily. Although you could ask yourself; just how fresh was it? How much got thrown away? Times have moved on. The majority of women now work outside the home and don?t have time to shop, cook and look after the home in the same way they once did. Today we shop once a week and expect the food to keep. Packaging has played a major role in allowing us to that
Over-packaging is bad. Under-packaging is very bad.
Let me give you a few other bits of raw information.
Measured by energy, packaging accounts for 3% of an average households environment impact
Production of household goods 34%
Heating 24%
Personal transport 15%
Food production 8%
Household appliance use 6%
Storing and cooking food 5%
Education and leisure 4%
Packaging for all goods (including foods) 3 %
Transporting and retail 3%
Greenhouse gas emission;
Energy production 86.4%
Agriculture 6.9%
Industry 3.9 % (including packaging)
Waste management 2.5% (mostly the food we throw away decomposing in land fill sites)
Other 0.3%
Defra figures
Energy use in the food chain
Giga Joules %
Food supply (farm, sea, as prepared food leaving the factory) 9 53%
Primary packaging 1.3 7.6%
Secondary packaging and transport packaging 0.6 3.5%
Factory to shop transport 0.6 3.5%
Retailing 0.5 2.5%
Consumer shopping (getting it home) 0.3 to 0.9 1.5 to 4.5%
Consumer cooling or freezing 3.0 15%
Consumer cooking 2.5 12.5%
Packaging saves more resources than it uses.
Consider the consequences of those energy figures above for food production. Food production is hugely expensive in resources and its environmental impact. Avoiding wasting it is worth a big effort. Packaging is a small price to pay for the conservation of food it brings about. In fact if you want to help the planet push for better food preservation at the enxt World Food summit not for higher food production
Taking packaging away increases the amount of food wasted. Food which has cost a lot of energy to grow, fertilize, harvest, clean and transport to the store.
As already said, I am involved in the packaging industry so you can dismiss this as the ramblings (or are they rantings by now) of someone with a vested interested.
All I ask is that you be critical of the received wisdoms and measure them against the real facts and figures.
The environment is too important to get it wrong. We should use only the packaging necessary and not more, but lets get it into proportion and look where we can make real environmental gains.
'Too many people drive their land rovers to the supermarket and think that 'paper or plastic' is a meaningful choice' - chairman Earth Day.
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It's all very well talking blithely about 'early potty training'. My daughter was effortlessly clean and dry night and day well before her second birthday. The son, however, is dyspraxic, and took years to become clean and dry. Even with the nappy off he was not always aware he was going. Early training for some children just causes more stress than either the child or the parent can cope with.
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I think the "real nappy" movement is greenwash. It's not going to reduce carbon emissions to any significant degree. We need to be more radical requiring serious sacrifices.
We must reduce carbon emissions as much as possible, but washing reusable nappies is releasing lots of new carbon into the atmosphere RIGHT NOW.
Real nappies are bad for the environment too. And using them in areas where water is a limited resource is also a bad idea.
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We have used cloth nappies on my son since he was 2 months old (he is now 15 months) and would never go back to using disposables. To be honest even the thought of using disposables when we go on holiday makes me feel sick. Once you get into a routine with cloth there are no problems. I think the lady who tried to use the nappies could have been a bit more positive to it as it shows them in not a very good light at all and I am sure will put more people off than trying to attract more people. If anyone out there is interested, there are different types......
FLAT NAPPIES - eg terrys and prefolds which have to be folded and go inside a wrap, can be pad folded or secured with a nippa
FITTED OR SHAPED NAPPIES - preshaped so no folding needed, done up by nappi nippas, velcro or poppers
POCKETS - like a disposable to go on and off as it is one piece with a pretty outer and water proof inner, there is a pocket at the back for stuffing and you take the stuffing out to wash and dry
then there are the different material types of nappy...........
MICROFIBRE - dries superfast
BAMBOO - silky and absorbant but not to be tumbled
COTTON - can be tumbled
There is no excuse for anyone NOT to use cloth nappies as there is a nappy type made out of the right material out there to suit everyones lifestyles.
I would rather flush my childs poo out the nappy and down the loo and then wash and dry them than having to lug bags of nappies home from the shops and have smelly pooey nappies clogging my bins up. No contest for me, cloth wins everytime.
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Just want to tell you about the Cotton on to Cotton Nappies project which was one of the first of its kind in the country. It aims to encourage parents to use cotton instead of disposable nappies.
The scheme, run by ContinYou in conjunction with Warwickshire County Council and the George Eliot Hospital NHS Trust, North Warwickshire, could reduce the amount of disposable nappies going to Warwickshire landfill sites by 2,250 tonnes.
Cotton on to Cotton Nappies is based at George Eliot Hospital maternity unit because there is evidence that if parents are introduced to cotton nappies in hospital then they are more likely to continue to use them when they return home.
'We are all really excited about the project here in the maternity unit because the nappies are a real breakthrough' said Kay Hawker, Head of Midwifery for the hospital. 'It's important that our new parents realise that these nappies are just as effective and user-friendly as disposable ones,'
About 20 staff at the maternity unit have been trained so far in using the new nappies, and there are hopes that it will be rolled out to other hospitals in the County.
The Community Recycling and Economic Development (CRED) programme has funded the project. The CRED programme, managed by the Royal Society of Wildlife Trusts (RSWT) and nine consortium partners, distributes National Lottery money on behalf of the Big Lottery Fund under its Transforming Waste funding programme.
As well as the environmental benefit, cotton nappies are also a good economic choice for parents: the average total cost of disposable nappies for one baby, from birth to potty, is about £1000, compared to £250 for cotton nappies. And they can be used for the next baby.
Washed and Delivered
'Washed and Delivered' is a laundry service to launder cotton nappies, which are being used in our project Cotton on to Cotton Nappies at the Maternity Unit at The George Eliot Hospital. The laundry service is collecting and delivering nappies from the hospital and providing a 365-day service. This service is also available to parents in the local community who wish to use real nappies but don?t want to wash nappies at home. There are two ways in which parents can use this service, either by buying real nappies and sending these to the laundry; or by renting nappies from the laundry and thus not having to make an initial outlay.
The laundry will help to reduce disposable nappies going to Warwickshire landfill sites by encouraging parents to use cotton nappies.
For more information about these projects, email Kulvinder Thind, or call 07887 878333.
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It seems like forever ago, but when I was 10 years old my little sister came into the world. I was shown how to fold a nappy and how to pin it onto her with one safety pin and how to ensure that it never pricked her.
The cloth nappies were lined with a soft sheet to catch the solid waste and once the clean nappy was on we'd put on the plastic overpants. I don't recall ever having the problems people talk about, it's just as tricky to put a disposable onto a wriggling child as it is to put a cloth nappy on.
One thing that noone ever mentions is that the cloth nappies are great for when the child is potty-trained. They can be repurposed into fabulous cleaning cloths. I believe that my mum still has a few from all those many years ago.
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#46 camdayjn: "I think the "real nappy" movement is greenwash. It's not going to reduce carbon emissions to any significant degree."
The same could be said about any single change, except for the whole human race reverting to an agrarian subsistance lifestyle. That's not going to happen and would kill as many people as untamed global warming would anyway.
"washing reusable nappies is releasing lots of new carbon into the atmosphere RIGHT NOW".
As is the manufacture of disposables (including logging trees for the woodpulp, transporting the raw materials, transporting the finished product, collecting the waste). Then there's the methane (a greenhouse gas) released while they rot in land fill, or should we incinerate them and release more CO2?
"And using them in areas where water is a limited resource is also a bad idea."
This really doesn't apply to the UK, or most of the western world. The real limit to water supply here is our limited willingness to invest in more efficient water management. Making use of grey water and rainwater harvesting, for example, woul use water more efficiently and save on the energy used in water treatment.
You have also ignored the 'hidden' water usage in producing disposables (paper manufacture uses a huge amount of water), not to mention the use of chemicals in this process.
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Camdayjn (46): Washing real nappies in our house *right now* and not really releasing very much carbon into the atmosphere, actually.
Our hot water is solar backed up by a wood pellet stove, our electricity comes from a green producer, and the last load of nappies are drying across the room from me on a maiden next to the radiator (which is on, seeing as summer has deserted us again - but then it, too, is heated by the pellet stove).
All three of our children have been brought up in real nappies. I'm glad to say we saw through the discredited EA report as soon as it was printed. They would have saved a lot of energy if they'd just not bothered. I don't know anyone who irons their nappies, for pity's sake! What a surprise to discover that the disposable nappy industry was involved in that report's compilation.
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JOETHEPACK - what company do you work for? I'd be interested to talk to you as I'm editor of Plastics In Packaging magazine (www.plasticsinpackaging.com) - drop me an email on the site.
Steven
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Looks like you're using the same reusables as my house -- Motherease.
We ditched disposables after two months and haven't looked back:
http://tinyurl.com/6zd93l
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jon_Hicks: Thanks for your points.
I have no doubt it costs more to use disposable, although there is one example on here of someone who couldn't get them to work, so £280 was spent and they still had to buy disposables!
We have a few shaped cloth nappies that we were given as samples so perhaps we'll make the leap yet.
A tip for those folks that write long screeds of text... I skip past those... brevity is the soul of the web!
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I would like to answer to the comment of joethepack. Please also refer to my longer contribution earlier in the blog.
I would like to stress that packaging is needed to preserve food only because distribution companies need fruits to last several weeks after being picked up, because this way they can import them from the other side of the world. This has several drawbacks, such as unfair competition with local producers, fuel consumption during transport of goods and unfair pricing to the faraway producers. If packaging and food transport were taxed, the cost of food would include the environmental costs and not only the production costs. Local production would then be profitable again and food packaging would not be needed because of the reduced distance between producer and consumer.
The argument that packaging is good to reduce food waste is a misleading expedient used by the PR departments of large distribution companies to justify their large profits at the expense of the destruction of the environment and of the local economies.
Just a final note. Today I bought a USB flash drive. Its packaging was as heavy as the USB, and its volume at least 10 times larger. Was this needed to preserve the USB flash drive??? This is a very sturdy component, which has no moving parts and it is perfectly shock resistant. Maybe this example could give a clue on the truthfulness of the arguments of the food packaging experts???
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Respect to you Fofito (55) but I doubt many people are bothering to read any of the 'longer' contributions - keep it short and sweet if you want to hold our attention!
Smartplanet (53) we've always found Motherease to be the best wraps, but for us the dream combination is a Motherease wrap over a Totsbots nappy.
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I have mixed feelings on this issue, but I do feel that some of the nappy evangelists on here don't always realise the arguments about cost etc are somewhat fallacious for many of us. It may be cheaper in the long run to use cloth nappies, but if you're talking about a £300 set-up cost, compared to maybe a tenner a week on disposables, many people will go for the disposables simply on the grounds that they haven't got the readies. This is also what keeps places like BrightHouse in business - people can't afford the up-front cost and ironically end up poorer in the long run.
Also, there is time (which isn't spent with the kids!) taken up with all the cleaning, washing and preparing, no matter how much you can argue it just becomes routine. They are in a way a labour-saving device, and unless nappy services can offer similar convenience there's little incentive for many people to switch.
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what is wrong with plain old terry toweling squares, washable cotton and terry inserts, nappy-nippas and waterproof overnappies which are entirely reuseable and washable.... steeping things in lanolin!! come on! The over-nappies contain plastic and cotton but can be used time and time again, buy wisely and they can be adjusted to fit from newborn onwards.
Get folding..... it doesnt take long.
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My grandson had real nappies, and they didn't have plastic outers - no wooly ones soaked in lanolin - but wonderful red fleece wraps. Look stunning, dry really quickly.
Highly recommended!
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Fofito
we can all find examples of bad practice and as I said packaging has its 'reduction and recycling' contribution to make.
Its contribution to preserving food and hence the environment however is overwhelmingly positive.
The UK is not self sufficient in food production so relies on imports which take days (not weeks ) to get here, unless you are talking about things like bananas.
The food grown in this country still needs to be preserved and protected. The retailers who are selling food are spending money packing it and if they could find a way of saving that money they would, I know I deal with them. If they could sell the food without the packaging believe me they would.
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#57 Poolie - I agree that GBP300 can be a steep outlay and this is only possible if you have that money available. That's not lost on anyone - although as #58 shows, people can get along with ultra cheap systems too. I suppose it depends on what capacity you have to manage your priorities.
As far as time is concerned it takes about 3 minutes to dump the load in the washing machine (if you do it slowly) and maybe 10 to drape them over the airer. There's no prep time for all-in-ones and stuffable nappies take a few seconds each. If you're at home you can do it on the fly while baby's b** is airing between changes.
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The "high setup costs" for reusable nappies are only applicable in the worst case.
Back in the days before disposable nappies were invented (or at least, before they became common), you often got *given* terry nappies and overpants. And when your own baby was potty-trained, you passed on whatever was fit to pass on to another young mother who would appreciate it.
Unlike disposable nappies whose working life is measured in hours, the working life of a terry nappy is more appropriately measured in children -- or even in generations!
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As for fofito's #13, I somewhat see your point, but do not generalize developing countries. The reason "the developed" world (i.e. UK) farmers cannot compete with African/Asian/Latin American prices is partially because of social equity. The farmers responsible for exporting and directing the farms' output exclusively own their entire land (really own, no one to pay back) and are also 'socialites', rich business names for generations in their lands, who often have long arms into their governments and/or other sources of income. Given poverty, they can hire farm workers at their required minimum wage (does not include health care, or benefits), maybe a nice x-mas bonus (goodie's basket), and still make a profit out of their exports, thanks to our desire to eat mangos in winter. Translate this to the UK and the farmer can barely afford to pay for fuel prices, and a few workers. Fair trade or ethical foods is a 'feel good' myth, because the 'fairness' in it, is being pocketed by the farm owner himself, and not the workers. I bet that if we paid them according to our standards, we'd see 10 euro bananas.
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#15. ajs_dy: Water is NOT recycleable, because we pollute it every day with chemicals. You are right about it being a loop (i.e. water cycle), but air pollution contributes to degrading our water quality, and the landfills especially, contribute to the large quantities of chemicals (and pathogens in some areas) found in groundwater reservoirs. Pathogens are a different class of contaminants, but in the developed world, related to wate disposal.
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I personally use a combination of eco-disposables and cotton nappies. I use Motherease nappies and wraps around the house (they only cost £40 second hand from thenappysite so it needn't brake the bank to try cotton, if cost is putting you off) and disposables when out. I find this works for us. We save money with the cloth and have the convenience when out and about. I don't find the washing that bad and I have to say that my Motherease nappies were much better at containing poo than the disposables! I'm not sure I will be trying the tie on nappies and wool shorts!
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Just to answer to joethepack (n. 60), I fully agree that retailers may still need to package food even if it is produced in this country or in Continental Europe if it is left up to them. This is because their procedures involve producing apples in Bournemouth to bring them to a warehouse in Newcastle and them bring them back to the retailer in Southampton. A tax on food packaging and transport may oblige them to review their distribution routes, or put them out of business altogether. In my hometown in Italy there is a farmer's market (a real one I mean) twice a week, and there is no need of any packaging there. Charging the real environmental cost on top of the production cost may bring the price down to that of the local products, and it may even be worth for the farmers to sell their products directly, bypassing the distribution directly.
Regarding the comment of hydroscooby (n. 63), I fully agree with your point. The only thing that you have omitted is that this whole system is paid by the large retailers that are very happy to pay someone in the developing countries to do the dirty job for them. And I can see nothing wrong in paying bananas 10 pounds each if this is their real environmental cost! That would probably allow to raise some money to pay for the disposal of the packaging and the environmental damage made by the container ship.
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We used Kooshies since 1994 on our four boys from birth, with disposables being used as a last resort. The economics alone justified the initial outlay as we used each nappy on at least two boys: i.e. each nappy being used and washed once every two days for four years! The later improved models meant we used some on three boys.
With the flushable liner, the sluiced waste gets treated at the sewage works. I bet most of the solids in the disposables is still in them...(which is technically regarded as clinical waste, requiring incineration).
I don't accept the equivalent environmental impact of Huggies v Kooshies. Those disposables are still in the ground: our old Kooshies have rotted away (some having been passed on before being disposed of), leaving just a few slivers of thin perished plastic. That's not a bad impact for the lifetime load, if you'll pardon the pun. Pretty much all the washing and flushed water was treated and re-used or released - just like anyone else's, so that effect was minimal too.
Everybody must accept that to maintain or improve their standard of living, they must make their own personal effort. With reusable nappies, you have to get into the discipline of soaking and washing every couple of days, but it's the price you must pay.
Also, if you had a tendancy to being squeamish, that is soon overcome!
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We use biodegradable disposable nappies made from recycled material, biodegradable wipes and biodegradable nappy sacks.
They are available in most big supermarkets.
Surely this solves both sides of the problem?
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Fantastic to see cloth nappies in the news again. I am on cloth nappied baby number 3 and with this one discovered the joys of wool 'shorties' and 'longies' especially for night time use.
I was astonished to discover that one fully lanolised pair of wool shorts could last for upwards of 2 weeks without washing. Sounds gross but they air out during the day and have no odour. If they start to smell I move on to a fresh pair and then wash and lanolise all of them at once. Really no big deal.
I hope you keep it up and inspire others to follow suit!
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I'm told boys are slower, but why is "going without" so difficult to contemplate?
Assuming you are at home with him, and there are some uncarpeted areas of your house and garden, (it is after all summer) just get some baby underpants (cotton or whatever) and whenever you are not on carpet, let him wear them.
warm dribble down leg is not that unpleasant if he is changed and dried immediately, and he will hopefully "potty-figure-it-out-himself" rather than "potty-train". Surely mopping a wooden/ tiled floor is less hassle than washing terrys?
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I have 2 boys - a 6 yr old and a 2 1/2 year old, and have been interested in the comments about potty training. I firmly believe that a child becomes dry and clean when they are ready. The 6 yr old was just over 3 when potty trained; I left the 2 1/2 yr old's nappy off this afternoon - he weed three times in his big brother's pants - lots of mess to clear up and 3 sets of wet pants! Potty training is something which happens when the child develops a reflex which recognises the need to wee or poo. Attempting to get a child into pants before they are ready is a waste of time. Generally speaking, girls are trained before boys.
Ref the washable/disposable debate: I use disposables. We are a family of four and I do at least 6 loads of washing a week. Not a problem to dry in the summer, but in the winter some of it requires tumbling. I prefer to spend as little time as possible on this task; adding another 3 or 4 loads into my equation is not something I am prepared to do.
- Scarcity of water IS an issue in the UK - just 2 summers ago we had a hosepipe ban and Thames Water were encouraging people to minimise useage.
- BTW - nearly ALL washing machines are now COLD fill only - on the basis of being 'more energy efficient'!
- does ANYONE make a special trip to the supermarket soley to buy nappies, for goodness sake?! We do one big shop every week which includes nappies and milk - so no additional trips out for individual items. Much more eco-friendly than the milkman who delivers in a diesel transit van!!
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What are you going to do during your monthlys? Have you bought re-usable pads? I swear by them!
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lol moli55, surely you have to wash whatever you've mopped the floor with? That said, as someone who introduces the potty and toilet pretty much from birth in conjunction with nappies as 'back-up' I much prefer collecting poo from floors and giving a quick wipe with loo roll or a damp flannel than scraping a squished one from a baby's bottom, whatever kind of nappy I'm using.
Lots of people have mentioned how easy it is to use cloth once it's lanolised, it really is wear-and-air-and-wear-again, and it's much less sweaty than any plastic nappy! Disana pull-ons do take a while to dry from completely soaked though. If the shorties are snug enough you could just pad-fold a terry and hold it in place while you pull up the shorties, also I got really good, with my last baby particularly, at doing nappies with her on my shoulder. She hated being horizontal as a newborn and as she got older it reduced the escapology :-)
Someone earlier suggested a throwaway inner in a reusable outer, such systems exist already, GDiapers and Mothercare's Smart Nappy, also the Tushies 'Mates' compostable booster pad can be used in reusable outers, I've done this myself while camping, with the Disana soaker and PUL wraps.
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Those who do not use cloth don't because they know very little about them, and think it's hard work when it isn't. If they knew the truth, they would be instantly conviced.
Unfortunately, the disposable nappy industry does a great job advertising their product. Many cloth nappies sold on the high street are no good, eg. Bambino Mio, and this puts off many well meaning parents. I'm also very tired of references made to that horrible environmental agency report, which has long been discreditied by the way, and a new revised one is to be expected.
My daughter was in disposables for the first month, we tried different brands, but they all leaked. When we switched to cloth, the leaks stopped overnight, so even though we had to wash the nappies, we didn't have to wash as much clothes.
The biodegrable nappies are not a solution either, although we have a used them on a couple of holidays because we had no access to a washing machine. When they are disposed of the conventional way, they don't biodegrade due to the anaerobic environment of the landfill. They'd have to be composted in order to reap the biodegrable benefits, I would rather just do the laundry with my limited household space. Besides most contain the gel granules, I would rather my daughter have fabric to absorb her wee instead.
She's already fully potty trained in the day now, and has just turned two. She's the only one in her circle of friends in her age range to be trained so young, she was in cloth full-time.
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Anthear, while I broadly agree that children become toilet-independent when they are ready, most babies do have some degree of control over their elimination and can signal in some way or other their need to wee or poo. If those signals are ignored or misinterpreted, much like other communication from babies they will stop bothering to use it, why waste the energy? So when a young child who has become accustomed to not signalling suddenly has their nappies removed, is it any surprise that it takes some time for them to figure out that they can actually tell us what's going on in time for us to help them get to the appropriate place?
It's probably too late for your children to benefit greatly but you might be interested in reading 'Diaper Free' or 'Infant Potty Training' or any of the online resources about 'Elimination Communication,' 'Natural Infant Hygiene' or 'Infant Potty Training.'
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We've used cloth nappies on both our daughters and they were potty trained from about 20 months. The trick is to use a plastic outer-pants with elasticated waist-band and thigh-bands to prevent leakage. And since the plastic pants are simply washed and wiped - *NOT* recycled - there is minimum problem with the environmental impact !!
Now the girls are old enough to have babies of their own even though they seemed to have deferred that until they are more financially settled.
#8 - jimciotti - Interesting comment. Perhaps your mum should have thought of that before you were born !!
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My daughter has been in reusables (Bambino Mio's) for about 13 months (she's now 15 months). I have spent about £220 in total on the nappies, compared to the aprox £450 that I would have spent on disposables in that time. I'm now pregnant again, and the new baby will be in reusables as well. I reckon that I will have saved well over £1000 by the time both are potty trained - that's money that I don't have to earn, so I can spend more time with my daughter. With the washing, we tried EVERY brand of disposables at first - and they all leaked badly. I ended up washing loads of clothes, some of which became too heavily stained to wear. In total, I reckon that I do about an extra 1-2 washes a week - not much.
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I just wanted to say, I am so impressed with your efforts. I think it's awesome that you are doing this. You are inspiring me to follow in your footsteps. Maybe not quite as stringent as your current program, but I am going to do what I can to step away from plastic.
I gave up water bottles (not hard) a couple years ago, and recently I stopped buying those (okay, wonderful) microwave popcorn bags. Sigh.
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what a pile of nonsense. Cloth nappying is easier than disposables considering we don't have constant extra clothing and bedding washes from the ineveitable poo up the back leaks associated with those disgusting chemical filled plastic things. The chemicals in the disposables could cause anything from asthma to cancer yet you happily put those on your baby? Shame on you for being so lazy as to not cope with a bit of nappy washing!
I have 5 children, work from home, home school and manage to fit in cloth washing quite happily- oh and when we holiday we take cloth nappies too. We use kiwi quick flip nappies and nappy elite wraps, and have never had a leak.
Next time you want to try cloth nappies try some proper ones and don't dive in on bad advice.
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You hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph: "The alternative - going without a nappy at all - was not something I was willing to contemplate. Maybe early potty training is not such a bad idea."
"Early potty training" goes by a number of names, and those of us who practice it are gradually reclaiming the way things used to be done before nappies were invented to tax us! Names include "elimination communication" or "EC", "infant potty training", "potty whispering", and so on.
EC isn't really hard. It's possible to have an infant train its parents right from birth. Just watch for signs of discomfort, show baby the sink, and splash some water about. Nature does the rest and things flow (pun intended) from there.
The "other end" is a bit more difficult to catch, but it's possible if you start early enough. If not, you can usually predict when the poops are set to arrive, and have baby wear a nappy for that day (and a little bit beyond.
There are periods when baby refuses to use a potty ("potty pauses"), caused by teething, growth spurts, or illness. But perseverance will pay off.
Like I said, this is the way things were done before nappies. And in parts of the world where nappies are frowned upon almost as much as toilet paper ("You don't *wash*?! Disgusting!"), this is the accepted way of life. Of course, we have to buy books, here in the West, because we've collectively forgotten how to listen to our forebears.
Our nine month old has been training us for about six months. We use cloth as backup. We were appalled, when we used disposables, at how the supposedly "safe" gel made his skin red raw. And people leave their kids in these things for hours at a time! Poor things.
If everyone gave EC it a try, and half of us had success, it would create a job for someone at the Environment Agency to go and rewrite that awful report. Please, have a heart -- give someone a job...
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I have started using the Disana (tie string nappies and flat terry nappies and they are great. Takes a few weeks to get used to.
Baby does not have nappy rash and they can be worn longer than disposable.
I'm so glad my money is no longer being wasted on disposables.
Start cost was around £70.00 and I received a £50.00 voucher from my borough for using used nappies :-)
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Clearly this subject is one of those 'horses for courses'!
Although I have to say that being realistic not using nappies on a young baby is really not practical. Presumably, those who promote this method never go anywhere, don't mind endless floor cleaning and don't have carpets! My adventurous son would have a field day smearing poo everywhere!
I never have a problem with escaping poo with my disposables and they only ever leak when you don't change the baby often enough.
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My views as a father of triplet girls (8 months old) and an older sister (2 1/2 years).
We have been using Bambino Mio's for all 4 of our little cherubs and the system works well. We have to be organised with 3 nappy buckets on the go at one time, but it is do-able and saves in the long run.
They do appear to suffer much less from Nappy rash with washables (perhaps because we change them more regularly, perhaps due to less chemical nasties!). The only time our older daughter had any nappy rash was after a few days consecutively at the crèche where they insist on using their own disposables.
At night time we do revert to one disposable nappy as we are able to keep them on for longer with less discomfort for the baby and this can avoid a middle-of-the-night change.
As for disposable nappies, I can recommend Moltex Oko which we have found to be both comfortable and efficient (not that I have been wearing them myself). At night though they did sometimes struggle with my older one's weeing and we swapped to a more well-known TV advertised non-bio brand.
The financial savings of washables are good (especially when you multiply everything by 3 or 4)
As for the debate about potty training etc. our daughter was aware of what she was doing qiute early on due, in part, to the washables. She didn't need any 'training' and decided just before her 2nd birthday that a big girl like her didn't need a nappy anymore (except for at night).
You girls are much quicker to pick things up than us boys!!!!
Andrew Maris
Albi, France
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I use cloth for my son who is now 14 months old. we started off using disposables, but after seeing some of my friends using cloth with their children i decided to give it a try.
I bought some second hand nappies of different types and tried them until i found the type that worked for us. We then sold the nappies we were not going to use on for other people to try them.
Slowly by buying a new or "pre-loved" nappy every week of two we had enough to use them full time, that was when my son was 6 months old. They have payed for themselves by now so many times over, with the nappies averaging out at £7 each
We use pocket nappies which are so simple anyone can use them.
All you do is put a microfiber/ bamboo/ toweling cloth into the pocket, put a flushable liner on top and put it on the baby.
Once they are dirty, you flush the soiled liner, and put the nappy in a bucket (to keep smells in) untill you have enough for a wash , then wash them the same as you would with your clothes.
I use tee tree once a week to kill the germs so they rarely get boil washed. Also when its hot my son is normally in just a t-shirt and one of his funky nappies, so that saves on washing too.
With using both cloth and disposables i cannot see a difference in the ammount of washing i do.
We are an eco friendly household, we grow some of our own veg, all our appliencs are A rated, recycle as much as we can and i even use a moon cup (a reusable sanitary product).
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just a quick question Chris.... how are you managing to purchase toilet paper? I tried today to do a weekly shop today and it was very challenging! but i reached a dead end when it came to buying toilet paper!!
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Thinking about disposable 'san pro' - why aren't washable incontinence products promoted? These products are physically larger than a baby's nappy, so presumably have more of a negative environmental impact - take longer to decompose etc etc.
Anyone any ideas?
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Our 3 month old is in Little Lamb reusable nappies. I'm quite happy with them. We've about 20 terrycloth/bamboo and 5 microfibre. We do the wash at 30 degrees every 2 days and air dry them. I even installed a drying rack that raises/lowers in our bathroom to help dry them. It is great.
But we do use the disposable ones (Naturecare) for the night-time and for the change bag for day trips. Longer visits we bring our bag of reuseables. I think this is a good blend of use. I also think that the EA study was most likely biased and obviously unrealistic...one would question why they were using ironing to validate/argue the comparison...but that's why as informed consumers we need to do our own homework and make our own decisions.
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#85 - charolivia: Hi, that's a good point you have here. From my experience there is many countries in Europe where you can buy toilet paper wrapped in paper instead of plastic (great for singles for example as they go to shop and buy only two rolls instead of big pack of 10). But only if you buy each piece separately can you get it in paper. They don't sell "jumbo" pack wrapped in paper. Haven't seen this in UK tho.
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We use washable nappies too and love them. We prefer Wonderoos and Mommy's touch for ease of use and drying speed and even took them on holiday and they dried really quickly on the line, they can be filled with anything absorbant eg. terries, prefolds, teatowels, cut up old towels or t-shirts or bamboo cloths.
If you want a waterproof wrap that is not new plastic, wht not recycle an old fleece. Cut the wrap shape out put elastic in the gusset and use pins or poppers if you can't face using new velcro, they are fairly waterproof, or use the thick felt like wool wraps, they look more effective than the knitted shorts.
The great thing about washables is that if stuff isn't quite dry, or you get caught out, you learn to be more adaptable.
If you want to avoid using washing powder, use washing balls and then add white vinegar and a few drops of tea tree or lavender oil to the rinse, it has the effect of softening and a good smell without trashing the absorbancy like fabric softener does. Good luck and stick with it!
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We also use the wooly pants for night time (ours look quite like the ones pictured--different brand though). It's easy to be skeptical about them but they are wonderful--bullet proof and breathable. Plus, as the legs are longer, no chance of leaks round the wrap. The lanolinising is only a pain at first. I do suggest finding some liquid lanolin, as melting Lansinoh tends to result in it going goopy!
Old fashioned nappies (terries for the Brits, prefolds for Americans) do work wonderfully and will stand up to anything in the wash, but the new ones that go on like disposables really are wonderfully convenient. I have Fuzzi Bunz pocket nappies which are great for going out.
I thought the extra laundry would be much more difficult than it turned out to be--dumping everything into the machine is really no more difficult than putting them in the bin.
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Well, the environmental benefits of not using disposable nappies are at best marginal, considering all the extra washing you have to do of re-usables. I think the only environmentally friendly way would be to take your nappies down to the river and wash them by hand against some rocks. Or, far more environmentally friendly, don't have babies in the first place! The extra strain on the environment from another human being on the planet is going to make any gains from a few weeks without plastic seem rather insignificant.
Seriously though, I do admire what you're doing, and think it's a very worthy aim. No doubt you'll breathe a sigh of relief at being able to use plastic again when it's all over, but I hope you'll also have discovered some areas where you can use less plastic permanently, and that's certainly a good thing. Especially if your blog can encourage some of the rest of us to do likewise.
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I'm absolutely delighted you've decided to omit disposable nappies, despite my objection to your anti-plastic month. The benefit I see is that it has raised questions about the things that many people don't think about, like nappies, like disposable paper cups, that we could easily live without, and not compromise our lifestyles.
I hope you stick with the nappies, so to speak. Frightening thought, but all the disposable nappies that have ever been used are still on this planet. Somewhere, there are mountains of used nappies that needn't be there. Both my brother and I were brought up in reusables (purely because disposables were so expensive) and I plan to use them should I have children.
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Well... the usual "we're soo good - we're saving the planet brigade" are out in force aren't they...
Will all you green minded mucky people stop washing poo, paper and all sorts of chemicals (yes soda powder is a chemical - duh!) down your loos and drains - I'd like to take a paddle in the local river this afternoon - NOT!... where the devil do you 'think' (obviously the wrong word) all this stuff ends up? Just because you flush it down the loo or drain and conveniently forget that it all ends up in the local river doesn't in the slightest mean that it's environmentally friendly - THINK for heavens sake!
You talk about disposables being so harmful to the environment - at least they are returned whence they came... when was the last time you heard of detergents, paper and poo being mined from the sea - yet you are so so so happy to dump it there by using environmentally devastating so called real nappies etc...
Look... I'm not promoting disposables and certainly not 'real' nappies, I'm just asking that you stop ticking your 'I'm green' boxes and understand that we all have an impact on the environment when we have babies - that phase only lasts two or so years - it's not the end of the world ok?!!!!
If you really want to be green:
Stop recycling paper- bury it so that less of the carbon is emitted and much more slowly and the enormous re-cycling energy cost is taken out of the equation instantly.
Stop driving to work ? don?t commute ? especially by train or bus as these modes of transport are usually very inefficient (When was it that you heard the miles per gallon (or gallons per mile!) figure for the No. 9 to X?)
Don?t iron your clothes in the summer ? winter is ok as it adds to the heat in your house
Don?t buy silly low-energy light bulbs that use massive amounts of energy and precious metals to manufacture and only save a little energy during summer months ? when you don?t have the lights on so much anyway!
Put your plastic waste in the bin? if it is buried, it will prevent people from burning that part of the oil and thus the oil will run out more quickly and we will have to invest in cleaner fuels sooner!
These are a few flippant examples of rubbishing the main gimmick green headlines we see day on day which when investigated show how little thought people put into being ?green?.
Oh well.. better go and do my bit for the environment and change my two year old?s disposable nappy :-P
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#93 - nastynoonoo
"Will all you green minded mucky people stop washing poo, paper and all sorts of chemicals (yes soda powder is a chemical - duh!) down your loos and drains - I'd like to take a paddle in the local river this afternoon - NOT!... where the devil do you 'think' (obviously the wrong word) all this stuff ends up?"
Actually, I think you'll find it ends up in a sewage treatment plant, before being discharged into rivers when it has been CLEANED.
Or other ideas are so ridiculous I'm going to put you down as an escaped convict from the dark ages. Honestly, if you're going to engage in debate you may want to educate yourself first.
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Message 93. At 4:36pm on 08 Aug 2008, nastynoonoo wrote:
"Will all you green minded mucky people stop washing poo, paper and all sorts of chemicals (yes soda powder is a chemical - duh!) down your loos and drains..."
I'm really intrigued to know where nastynoonoo disposes of his/her own faeces...?
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#94: I think #93 has a point, although he/she doesn't articulate it properly. Some of the recycling technologies available to us today are not at all eco-friendly. In the case of paper, one has to be careful of the chemicals it already contains. For plastic it is almost the same argument, but the 'recycled' plastic products can often be toxic, and their by-products can leave us with an air-pollution problem.
The water issue is a very very big problem. We would use potable water (for health of the little ones) to wash the babie's garments. This water will no longer be classified as drinking water. The sewage comes in to treat (by treating I mean reducing levels of possible pathogens, and chemicals), and then it is disposed back into nature. However, the purpose is to lower the environmental impact and maintain public health. If you wish to have drinking water, it will need to go through another treating plant, or wait a long long time before it is purified naturally. Let's not forget the sweage/treatment plant's energy needs.
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18 years ago we successfully used Terries for our two children. And the Terries are still going strong as cloths for wiping things clean and mopping up messes. Reuse does not stop when the children are potty trained.
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#96: You're quite right; it was a true rant... I apologise, but only for the way in which I ranted... not the logic behind it.
My point still stands? please everybody, just think really hard about the detail behind green schemes? when you do, I can promise you that you will find very few that stand up to detailed scrutiny.
#94: "Actually, I think you'll find it ends up in a sewage treatment plant, before being discharged into rivers when it has been CLEANED."
I guess I deserve the sarcasm in your response due to my earlier rant, but there is no need to be personal.
Anyway away from topic... #96 has pointed out (not quite in black and white may I add) that there are serious problems with the logic of flushing away our waste from either the toilet or washing machine.
If I can also add, that no, the water from the treatment plant is not actually clean by any means... It has had the biosolids (and those paper linings you flush) and other non faecal / paper wastes removed and dumped to land fill (or used as fertiliser ? would you believe it?). The discharge water from the treatment plant now contains many, many thousands of chemicals including detergents etc which would not be found in nature and can have profound affects on wildlife ? both river and sea based. You could drink it and live and perhaps many peoples around the world would like to drink the water, but it is certainly NOT clean and without side affects.
As for your rant about the other points I made ? they are flippant to a certain degree, but, they are based on fact ? take the issue over light bulbs.
Most if not all houses these days have thermostats to control their heating ? thus, any heat source which adds heat to the house will reduce the need for the gas boiler or other source to generate as much heat. This part of the equation is almost always left out of the argument for and against low energy lightbulbs.
Nearly all the energy emitted from light bulbs which doesn't go out as light goes out as heat? therefore nearly all light bulbs are almost as efficient as each other when used during the winter months. Only in the summer months do low energy light bulbs use less energy than the older types ? and then, you don't use your lights as much anyway. Also, the older types and the newer high-energy bulbs can be dimmed which when you use an electronic slow-start dimmer, also preserves their life, sometimes to many times that of the low energy lightbulbs which can?t be dimmed.
This is just the tip of the iceberg on this one subject. It just highlights how silly some of these green schemes really are. I will not continue as I have come way off topic here.
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'And now for something completely different'....
I tried bamboozles when my boy was born, but found that they were very wet around him, took ages and ages to dry and used loads of chemicals to clean. The paper liners were so strong, they should never be flushed ? so went the way of disposables binned! Plus, fiddling about with all those silly layers three times a night was shear madness ? totally exhausting!
I think one point to note here is that not every baby poos in the same way ? ours would sometimes save up five days worth and then let go with a whooshing sound that made you pull over immediately if you were in the car. It would go everywhere ? out the sides, up his back ? it was actually the only time we liked the bamboozles with the huge plastic outer layer that helped stop the mess from reaching the car seat!
Now we just use bio degradable disposables and sacks ? lovely ? we find them far better than the leading brands of disposables for dryness ? especially at night.
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#98: I think the problem is that a lot of greenies are focused on self, how they can personally be proud to say they are working for a better environment. I agree 100% that often they do not put their scheme to analysis. The downfall of this, is we have a green movement whose arguments don't stand against the powerful industrial lobbyist.
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I'm so glad that some parents are trying to be environmentally friendly. However, there is no way around the fact that the world needs far fewer babies to be born. Our resources are strained to the breaking point by the demands of growing population, at the expense of clean air, biodiversity and lovely wild places. Every day world population grows, exacerbating the problem. Please think if you want children at all and then have only one or two!
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Message for:
#85Charolivia and #88Mishaela
You may have moved on to the next blog entry but I will share that it is also possible to buy individual paper wrapped rolls of toilet tissue in the US, however they will be more expensive than the larger economy packs.
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My children wore cottn flanel dapers made by mother in a T-shape sed by our famiy for at least four genertions. They were colorful and absorbent, but not water proof.
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Cloth Nappies are brill (I used them for both my children, saved a fortune) but what about the bucket?
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Presumably a suitable storage receptacle may have been purchased before 1st Aug, or Chris may be employing my method which isn't exactly hygienic but doesn't use extra plastic, ie dump the wet-but-not-mucky nappy on a waterproof hard floor (vinyl tiles, in my case) and the soiled ones straight in the washer for a rinse. Not that I was really that concerned about plastic use (and yes I am well aware that I was using unnecessary water and electricity but that's not my point) just that I never got round to buying a bucket, lol.
Mind you, I don't have hang-ups about a little bit of baby wee :-)
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chris, not sure that you know exaclty what bio-plastic is. It is biodegradable, and is also known under the name biofilm. Unless you are just cutting out all things that have "plastic" in the name....but it doesn't contribute to the landfill problem.
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I never tried cloth nappies. I thought about it and I just can't see how it can be easier. I bought the biodegradable kind. They were nicer than the non degradable ones. Softer on baby's bottom. I think a lot of parents esp. Dads, who seem to be less fascinated by their child's inner workings and its results, can't be bothered. In those glorious terry nappy days my Dad, when left alone with us, did not follow protocol and just chucked the soiled terry nappies in the bin.
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Christine
I have loads of cloth nappies...would you like some more!? I even have wool wraps and fleece wipes...
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I was a nanny for a couple in Canada who began toilet training their daughter from a few months old. I took care of her from four months to a year. She never wore nappies but would let us clearly know when she needed to go. I only had two or three mishaps in that time - mostly because I wasn't paying attention and missed her cues. She was always very close (physically) to a loving adult for her few years - which would be essential if trying this system.
There are lots of books out there about it, including "The Diaper-free Baby: The Natural Toilet Training Alternative for a Happier, Healthier Baby or Toddler" by Christine Gross-Loh.
I also lived in Viet Nam for three years until 2001 and this is how most families that I knew looked after their babies. No diapers. No soggy wet cloth wrappings either. Just good non-verbal communication.
Thanks Chris for all your investigations. Best wishes on the journey.
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A minor gripe about packaging.
Why when I buy a 6 pack of anything (sodas, beer etc) at my local grocery store (I live in the USA) - a 6 pack which comes in a handy cardboard carrying pack with a handle on it - do the clerks at the check out insist on putting it in a plastic bag which is actually harder to carry than the 6 pack itself?
Likewise plastic containers of milk, which have a handle for crissakes!!! They don't need to be put in a plastic carrier bag. These items are actually designed to be carried, just as they are. No extra bags needed.
Thank you. I got that off my chest.
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