A new station but will it still be called Blackfriars?
Post categories: Network Rail, Rail
| 11:16 UK time, Tuesday, 24 August 2010
News reaches me from the Lib Dems that they have got assurances from Network Rail that they are considering renaming Blackfriars.
As reported on the great local site SE1, one option is calling the new redesigned station Blackfriars & Bankside.
The press release I've been sent says:
Ian Coucher, Chief Executive of Network Rail has stated that he is "sympathetic" to the proposal and has initiated further work to be carried to examine the practical implications of the name change.
Simon Hughes, MP for the area, commenting on the response from Network Rail said:
"The redeveloped station will be the first to span the River Thames. It will also be the first station built with access from the South bank of the River Thames for 120 years. This is a golden opportunity to ensure that the name of the station highlights the direct access to attractions like the Globe, Tate Modern and the many new businesses and residential developments in the area.
Caroline Pidgeon, leader of the Liberal Democrat London Assembly Group, who is working with Simon Hughes on this issue commented:
"It is vital that Network Rail and Transport for London seriously consider this proposal. Putting a name on a map really does help in drawing tourists and other people to a locality. Without question this name change could be a huge boost to businesses and the other many attractions around Bankside, as well as local residents who are proud to live in the bankside area"
Would naming it "Bankside" make a difference? Surely, traditionalists wouldn't like it?
According to Wikipedia the name Blackfriars goes back to 1317.
Or is this an elaborate smokescreen to distract from rumours the deadlines are going to get put back?
What other names would suit that area? South Fleet Street? North South Bank? North Millenium Bridge?
Anyway there is a big shin-dig this morning at the site with Network Rail and the Government Minister Theresa Villiers.
So watch this space. We will see how "sympathetic" they really are...
UPDATE: 3.30pm
Blackfriars isn't the only London station that is being redeveloped. You can see a photo gallery here of how some of the stations could look in the next few years.
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~04~RS~)
© 2012
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I can see this being a big fish in the small pond of station sovereignty.
Personally, I'd leave it as it is, but I can see the national rail section having one name and the LUL bit having another.
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Since it spans the river, how about 'Blackfriars Bridge'?
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BLACKFRIARS RENAMING
If the decision making process is impacted by Institutional Racism the final result could have racist undertones that could seriously damage community cohesion in London.
RESS (Race Equality Secret Service)
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@RESS
Can you put that in clearer terms, please?
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The rail enthusiasts will no doubt want things to stay the same. However, a name change seems a worthy idea and might make things easier for tourists coming to the area.
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The proposal to call the station Blackfriars and Bankside is clumsy and goes against the naming practice of stations which has moved towards simplicity and the removal of ands. Dore and Totley station just outside Sheffield is now called Dore despite being in Totley. Barry Edwards at 13.35 hours suggested Blackfriars Bridge as a suitable name. This was the name adopted by the original station on the South Bank of the Thames opened from 1864 to 1885. Nick Catford's excellent site has the full history http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/blackfriars_bridge/index.shtml
The station at the north side of the Thames was originally called Saint Pauls until 1880. The use of an eponymous name would be the simplest. Many stations these days carry a subtext under the station name board - Salford Crescent indicates its proximity to the University of Salford. A similar message indicating Bankside and the South Bank together with direction arrows would be appropriate and consistent with nation railway signage practice.
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Hi RayB
Which bit if the comment is unclear?
We'll see if the comment can be made clearer.
Kind regards
RESS (Race Equality Secret Service)
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@RESS
Okay, how on earth can re-naming a station (or not) have any form of "racist undertones" ?
I (for one) really do not understand your posting. If you've a point to make, why not make it in a way that is clear for all, and not in some kind of "loaded" manner?
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From the perspective of a local business, changing the name to 'Blackfriars & Bankside', presents an important opportunity to further define Bankside's vibrant cultural quarter, as distinct from South Bank, and to help tourists orientate themselves. We welcome the proposal.
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RayB Question:
Okay, how on earth can re-naming a station (or not) have any form of "racist undertones" ?
RESS Response:
Institutional Racism in the decision making process shapes and defines the final results and the impact on the people subject to that power.
Racists in positions of trust, power and authority make Racist decisions.
Naming and re-naming places and property impacts community cohesion.
Is that clear?
_________________________________________________________
RayB Question:
I (for one) really do not understand your posting. If you've a point to make, why not make it in a way that is clear for all, and not in some kind of "loaded" manner?
RESS Response:
What is it that you do not understand?
Perhaps you are confused about what Racism is and how it works.
Why did you use the word "loaded"?
Did you mean something like a loaded gun?
Think carefully.
Answer intelligently.
Kind regards
RESS (Race Equality Secret Service)
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Given the comments and discussion above, perhaps the station developers should let the public vote on a possible name change?
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At 09:44am on 31 Aug 2010, FatFriar wrote:
Given the comments and discussion above, perhaps the station developers should let the public vote on a possible name change?
Race Equality Secret Service (RESS) Response:
That is an interesting suggestion FatFriar.
1. Does anybody know who the "station developers" are?
2. Does anybody know if the "station developers" have a well managed and effective Race Equality Scheme?
Kind regards
RESS (Race Equality Secret Service)
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@RESS
I still don't understand the relevance of your postings to the thread.
As far as I can see, "Blackfriars" will still be part of the name, its just a question of what (if anything) else is placed before or after it - it really is that straightforward.
@Bankside Gallery, this would be further enhanced if your local chamber of commerce (or equivalent) were able to have "alight here for..." added on to the on-board announcements as the trains stop. TfL have made progress in this over the last few years on both Overground, Bus and Tube services - it might be worth approaching them before any new station names are recorded and built into the DVA's?
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At 10:29am on 01 Sep 2010, RayB wrote:
@RESS
I still don't understand the relevance of your postings to the thread.
As far as I can see, "Blackfriars" will still be part of the name, its just a question of what (if anything) else is placed before or after it - it really is that straightforward.
Race Equality Secret Service (RESS) Response:
You said "As far as I can see".
Perhaps you are not able to see far enough to understand how Institutional Racism in decision making processes ensures that things are not as "straightforward" as they might appear.
Does that make sense?
Kind regards
RESS (Race Equality Secret Service)
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@RESS
The more likely explanation is that I don't spend my time chasing shadows.
You have still failed to tell us exactly what your point is, if you have one?
In respect of the point of this blog, I still think there will be a showdown between TfL and National Rail, and we'll end up with "Something and Blackfriars" or the reverse.
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At 7:24pm on 02 Sep 2010, RayB wrote:
@RESS
The more likely explanation is that I don't spend my time chasing shadows.
Race Equality Secret Service (RESS) Response:
The following Sunday Times article featured in the following context might change your point of view on careful reflection.
http://raceequalitysecretservice.blogspot.com/2010/09/race-equality-inspectorate.html
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At 7:24pm on 02 Sep 2010, RayB wrote:
@RESS
You have still failed to tell us exactly what your point is, if you have one?
RESS (Race Equality Secret Service)
Who are the "us" you refer to?
Have you considered that it might be you alone who has failed to get the point?
Think carefully.
Answer intelligently.
What sayest thou? (What say you?)
___________________________________________________
At 7:24pm on 02 Sep 2010, RayB wrote:
@RESS
In respect of the point of this blog, I still think there will be a showdown between TfL and National Rail, and we'll end up with "Something and Blackfriars" or the reverse.
RESS (Race Equality Secret Service)
THE "SHOWDOWN"
Your choice of words highlights the POWER struggle, shows the importance of the naming and re-naming of places and the danger of Institutional Racism in decision making processes.
Kind regards
RESS (Race Equality Secret Service)
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It seems to me that RESS is objecting to the use of "Black" in "Blackfriars". But since Dominican friars wear black they are often called black friars, and consequently Blackfriars is quite a common name. As such, to impute a racial overtone into the name is ridiculous and ignorant.
However, perhaps I have misunderstood the Race Equality Secret Service's clouded argument.
I rather like "Blackfriars and Bankside".
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At 2:07pm on 07 Sep 2010, warden wrote:
. . . . . . . . . As such, to impute a racial overtone into the name is ridiculous and ignorant.
RESS (Race Equality Secret Service) Response:
Is it possible to "impute a racial overtone into a name"?
Can names of places have racial overtones?
Think carefully.
Answer intelligently.
What sayest thou? (What say you?)
_________________________________________________________
At 2:07pm on 07 Sep 2010, warden wrote:
However, perhaps I have misunderstood the Race Equality Secret Service's clouded argument.
Race Equality Secret Service (RESS) Response:
You might be well advised to reflect on whether it is the RESS argument that is "clouded" or your thought process with regards to the subject of Institutional Racism.
Kind regards
RESS
"Ignorance is bliss when it is folly to be wise"
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Maybe it should be called Whitefriars; it might then shut up that plonker RESS up.
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RESS wrote: "Can names of places have racial overtones?"
If not, then you agree with me that "Blackfriars" doesn't. Good.
Anyway. I wrote: "I rather like Blackfriars and Bankside," and I should have added that it doesn't really matter if that's different from "Blackfriars" Tube, because the Underground station is definitely on the north side of the river. And it's not as if you can't easily get to the BR station from the LU station -- not the same situation as having Charing Cross BR station a couple of hundred yards away from what is now Embankment Station.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
At 4:33pm on 07 Sep 2010, warden wrote:
. . . . . Anyway. I wrote: "I rather like Blackfriars and Bankside," and I should have added that it doesn't really matter if that's different from "Blackfriars" Tube, because the Underground station is definitely on the north side of the river. And it's not as if you can't easily get to the BR station from the LU station -- not the same situation as having Charing Cross BR station a couple of hundred yards away from what is now Embankment Station.
Race Equality Secret Service (RESS) response:
What do you think is the best way to ensure Institutional Racism does not impact the decision making processes, as regards the re-naming of Blackfriars, thereby maximising community cohesion?
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"At 3:50pm on 07 Sep 2010, extraforte wrote:
Maybe it should be called Whitefriars; it might then shut up that plonker RESS up."
"Whitefriars" does have a legitimate claim in the area, dating back as far as the 13th Century (along with "Blackfriars").
I said in #1 that I thought we would end up with two different names, one for LUL and one for the NR sections, so I agree with @Warden.
The area is steeped in history and any hint of "racism" either as an undertone, overtone or whatever, is, quite honestly, farcical.
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