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Motty's day four preview

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John Motson | 21:02 UK time, Sunday, 13 June 2010

After Germany ominously got off to a World Cup flier against Australia over the weekend, Monday is the chance for their fierce rivals the Netherlands to show what they are made of against Denmark.

Much is expected of Bert van Marwijk's side in a match which will have a host of Premier League stars in action, while World Cup holders Italy kick off their World Cup defence against Paraguay.

Here's my day four preview - click on the video below to see my picks.

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Comments

  • 1. At 10:58pm on 13 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    I am Algerian, living in England and was completely chocked by the commentary of Simon Brotherton and Martin Keown of the Algeria v Slovenia game, as well as the horrible comments by Gary Lineker, Alan Hansen and Alan Shearer. Do you really believe that nations like Algeria or Slovenia and many others are in the world cup to win it? We are there, first because we deserve it, we have won our qualifying games (Scotland are not even in it Mr Hansen) and we all want to do our best. We deserve the respect of the BBC pundits and commentators. The game today was not boring and was definitely worth me cancelling my Sunday lunch, Mr Lineker...

    Shame on you BBC commentators. How dare you laugh at us, when your countries are not even able to qualify or to win their games, with all the money you have invested in football. I used to look up at you who are supposed to be the masters of football and football commentary. Today's comments were a disgrace for the BBC. Remember, the German were forced to cheat after behaving this way with Algeria, laughing and promising to score 10 goals. You should learn from these mistakes and be a bit more humble...

    Alan Hansen, the world cup is about players trying their best, we do not all have Rooney, Gerrard and Capello in our teams. You might deserve better for your birthday, but we Algerian supporters deserve better than you laughing at our national team. Go home Mr Hansen, if Africa is not good enough for you...

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  • 2. At 11:10pm on 13 Jun 2010, Zebrudaya wrote:

    Hi Motty,

    I was listening to your day four preview on BBC and I want to raise a point of order on a statement you made when talking about the Holland match. Quoting you verbatim, you said;

    "How fitting it would be if they were to win the first world cup to be held on this continent in the country that they discovered"

    It is important for you to understand that South Africa was inhabited by native Africans like the Zulus before the advent of the Europeans. I am sure you are not trying to rewrite history by your statement which indicates that South Africa was uninhabited at the time of the arrival of the Dutch in the 15th century.

    If you read a little bit more about the history of South Africa you will find your statement is incorrect as the Dutch did not "discover" South Africa.

    I believe your intention is not to mislead.

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  • 3. At 11:20pm on 13 Jun 2010, BlueNWhiteArmy wrote:

    Dont worry Karamel you aren't alone, the smaller team in the Premiership also get spoken about as if there nothing by Hansen and co.

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  • 4. At 11:27pm on 13 Jun 2010, Patrick wrote:

    I know this is not commenting on the post but well said Karamel, some of the coverage by the BBC has been far too biased towards England, especially when they have yet too even broadcast an England game. When the BBC are covering a match between two teams, they should talk about those two teams, not switch over to an Gabby at the england camp.
    And another thing, why in a highlights show of a 90 minute game between Ghana and Serbia are there only around 2 minutes, the game cannot have been that boring surely. Especially since they were the only ones the team bothered to talk about.

    Back to the post, but unfortunately more criticism. Although I have much respect for Motson as he obviously is enthusiastic about the game and has much knowledge on the subject, he seems to not show off all he knows, instead just speaking of the big name players (which he should do) instead of aswell speaking about, in the Netherlands case Afellay or Elia.

    Ah well

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  • 5. At 11:33pm on 13 Jun 2010, Nickynak wrote:

    You can just tell that Motty was rambling on for hours in this video and these are the edited 'highlights', if we want stats Motty there's wikipedia these days!

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  • 6. At 11:55pm on 13 Jun 2010, goldenbales wrote:

    I think what he meant is that it was discovered by the new world, i.e people from western europe who believed at the time when they ''discovered it'' there was noone inhabiting it. I think Motson is educated enough to realise people have been in africa a lot longer than they have been in europe. However this is a english broadcasting station with english screening rights, and over 90% of the viewing audience supporting england and would be naturally biased in their favour. One thing I will say is that if anyone has read any blogs from bbc during or prior to the world cup they have been resoundingly negative towards engalnd.

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  • 7. At 11:57pm on 13 Jun 2010, Gurn-O-Rama wrote:

    Patrick, did you watch Serbia vs Ghana? I'm surprised they managed to get 2 minutes of highlights out of it!

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  • 8. At 11:57pm on 13 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    I did not comment on the post because there are no posts about Algeria v Slovenia on the BBC website. I would have loved to have the chance to comment in the right space, but unfortunately, there is no such space.
    I have tried 606, but it took 4 hours of moderation before posting, ie it was already in page 34 when it was finally posted.
    I thought that posting my comment about Hansen's and Lineker's disgraceful behaviour in the World Cup day four post was appropriate. I was obviously wrong as my comment has been removed.
    Thanks to BlueNWhiteArmy and Patrick.

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  • 9. At 11:59pm on 13 Jun 2010, redpreacherman wrote:

    In terms of a written history it can be said that the Dutch discovered South Africa together with the people who inhabited the land. I believe the Portuguese knew about SA prior to the Dutch and we now have evidence that the Bush People had been around from 25000 to 40000 years ago. But, until the Dutch came along the world as we know it today was not aware of the existence of South Africa.

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  • 10. At 00:08am on 14 Jun 2010, utd20 wrote:

    Well said Karamel.

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  • 11. At 00:28am on 14 Jun 2010, JoeDavisRoach wrote:


    John Motson is not much more than a comentator with no real experience of the game. He has knowledge borne out of a long career of covering football, but no real understanding of the game on the level that someone who has played or managed in the game would have. I find most of work to be a rather blusterful combination of patriotic vitriol and the presentation of trivia as some kind of understanding. The classic example being Motsons inneviteable enthusiasm to mention and draw parallels with 1966 at every opportunity. Im sure Motson can remember the campaign well and remembers all the results and goalscorers etc which is impressive in a pub quiz kind of way but after 46 years of bringing it up at every major championship I find he has yet to really explain how 1966 has any real bearing on any of the campaigns that have followed it. Different era, different squad, different opposition, different venue. Does 1966 really have any relevance whatsoever with the fortunes of this or any other future England team? Uruguay, as Motson will no doubt remember, have won the World Cup twice as many times as England yet I seriously doubt that their own media is driven to the endless comparisons that every England squad has faced.

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  • 12. At 01:13am on 14 Jun 2010, Petrov wrote:

    I think the africans in S.A. have proven more resilient than the Native Americans to the effects of colonization, which is a great feat in survival. The Bushmen are the most innocent and sweet people you'll ever meet. S.A. is a fentestick place, only if the crime was lower, I'd go live there in a heart beat.

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  • 13. At 03:57am on 14 Jun 2010, AnthonyM2010 wrote:

    I repect and truly appreciate Motty as a football comentator but do take issue with his claim that the Dutch "discovered" South Africa, as previously mentioned, when many other Non-European Countries were already aware of her existence. However, claiming that it would be fitting for Holland to win in the country they discovered is slightly naive when the most famous Dutch legacy was Apartheid which was established and upheld by their Afrikaner descendants.

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  • 14. At 04:15am on 14 Jun 2010, Awet wrote:

    I am really bewildered and OFFENDED With this guy's comment that the Dutch DISCOVERED South Africa,how bizarre! I am appalled- he needs to apologize for this!

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  • 15. At 04:59am on 14 Jun 2010, mindbender wrote:

    I would like to add to the growing list of complaints about the"Discovery of South Africa!" comment. I think that it is appalling in this day and time to still have such comments be signed off by the BBC. I have to ask who actually signed off on this?

    Mr Motty, I am sure we would all like to believe that this was an oversight but I implore you to look at the big picture, This is the first premier showcase for Africa to highlight something other than war, violence, hunger or apartheid, and you still equate it to a triumph of the colonialists in post independent South Africa?

    I might be blowing alot of steam but I surely hope that no African or South African prominent commentator gets a hold of this. Please re-edit the video... it will save you alot of grief.

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  • 16. At 05:06am on 14 Jun 2010, pottersmust wrote:

    A few points
    First, i don't want to see the BBC show any items however loosly connected with WAGS. Please stop it now.

    Secondly, don't do history Motty, please. The first to possibly visit the southern tip of Africa were the Phoenicians over 2500 years ago, they were not Europeans either but originated from the Lebanon area.

    And just one more thing, can you please stop refering to past England sides. We've only won it once and before we win it again we need to re-build and re-stock with young blood. The World cup to me is a celebration of a great sport and the fantastic fans who follow it, can we stick to that.

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  • 17. At 05:31am on 14 Jun 2010, westlake72 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 18. At 05:45am on 14 Jun 2010, westlake72 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 19. At 06:23am on 14 Jun 2010, DWLake wrote:

    If I was Karamel I would be wondering why he/she was being censored as he/she is getting a lot of agreement from people who saw these posts before someone pulled them.

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  • 20. At 07:42am on 14 Jun 2010, Dunny1985 wrote:

    I don't understand what all this fuss is about. If I told you i'd just "discovered" mint tea you would assume that I had just tried it for the first time, not that I was the first person to ever taste mint tea. This talk of Motty apologising for what was a perfectly reasonable remark is ridiculous.

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  • 21. At 07:46am on 14 Jun 2010, Eylard Wurpel wrote:

    Let's focus on the football and what a great tournament the World Cup is. The fact that it's in Sfrica for the first time makes it even better.

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  • 22. At 08:36am on 14 Jun 2010, Matt Parkins wrote:

    Actually I think Motty said that they settled in South Africa after discovering it - he didn't say they were the original discoverers - much like I discovered green tea last year and settled into drinking it each day - I'm not claiming that I am the original discoverer, but that I discovered it for me.

    Get a grip guys.

    Matt

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  • 23. At 08:51am on 14 Jun 2010, bizz29 wrote:

    Strongly disagree with below comments re dutch discover SA.
    Its absolutley fine to use the 'discover' word. In much the same way school textbooks still state that 'Columbus set sail to discover the new world'.

    It is more a figure of speech that we in Europe use to term these actions, rather than to actually try and imply that they 'found' the land first.

    Below comments are again another example of sad over-sensitive political correctness gone wrong. Well done the BBC, and Motty - a legend of fottball commentary - for making this piece and sticking to it.

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  • 24. At 08:55am on 14 Jun 2010, ex Yaxley Posh wrote:

    I am with post 20 on this , best post on this discovering thing people have latched onto. Seems like people are just looking for something to jump onto. I cant see what the problem is, Motty said " the Dutch settled here after discovering it" No different than Columbus discovering the USA and the English settling there . Whether you like it or not it is part of history.

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  • 25. At 09:21am on 14 Jun 2010, Smithy wrote:

    I think karamel's post was over the top. This is the British Broadcasting Comapny and they will focus on British Games. The vast majority of the public watching the BBC's coverage want to know what is going on with the England team. I think that you will find that in any other country they will be focusing mainly on their side in the world cup. This is normal and to be expected.

    I don't think that Motty has any other intention than to highlight the fact thaty the dutch have a link with this country. The coverage of England v USA showed the advert America were playing for the game. This advert talked about freeing themselves from the oppression of the English. People use their history in international matches.

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  • 26. At 09:22am on 14 Jun 2010, backpassgoal wrote:

    Am sure just like Caramel's comment this one may be withdrawn. The truth is to say "in the country that they discovered" has a connotation of meaning the other inhabitants hadnt discovered it.when we were in school, we were taught that Dr. Speke discovered Lake Victoria.well, this is utter nonsense. there were inhabitants around the lake who new it so Europeans should stop thinking they discovered anything. It is purely discrediting other human beings. The Dutch didnt discover south africa, they colonized it, PERIOD!!

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  • 27. At 09:32am on 14 Jun 2010, _Danny_ wrote:

    To say people discovered parts of the world is a grave insult to the animals!

    I demand an apology!

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  • 28. At 09:35am on 14 Jun 2010, bsmk1 wrote:

    The use of 'discovered' twice by John Motson is clearly unacceptable.

    The attempts to defend him with the analogy of 'discovering' tea are also worrying. The analogy involves comparing the discovery of an inaminate object (tea) with the discovery of a country where people were living and which was subseqently invaded. The analogy shows a worrying disregard for the human beings who were 'discovered' and their lack of voice in the process of 'discovery', and in subsequent use of the word 'discovery' to gloss over history. We would not expect tea to have concerns about being 'discovered', but we might well expect people who are said to be 'discovered' to have such concerns.

    Only if it is clear that peoples of South Africa are comfortable with the word 'discovery' would it be possibly acceptable to use the word. I very much doubt whether this comfort exists.

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  • 29. At 09:41am on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    Thank you all for your comments and support. I am disapointed that the BBC have decided to remove my post, but hey c'est la vie.

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  • 30. At 09:43am on 14 Jun 2010, hankyboy wrote:

    Never thought I'd jump to the defence of John '66 Motson!

    But really, it is quite depressing to see the lengths people will go to to score cheap 'racially insensitive' points.

    South Africa and her inhabitants were unknown to the outside world until the Dutch landed there. If that isn't discovery, I'm not sure what else is. Dis. Covering. See?

    But that really isn't the point either. It's just staggering how easily some people take offence. There are real, serious problems out there, guys. Go find some, and leave well-meaning sports journalists alone.

    PS. Lurked these boards for years, and never felt the need to sign up and post till I read this!!

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  • 31. At 09:59am on 14 Jun 2010, Cassandra wrote:

    Mr Motson is a British broadcaster and as a result it is to be expected that he still thinks of England and Europe as the centre of the world.

    Yes it is increasingly inaccurate in the 21st century but the Brits are a bit like a dear old Aunt - sweet but out of date and you just know it will hurt their feelings to explain the true state of affairs.

    And we should at the very least thank them for providing the BBC. BTW these days people see the BBC as a global service provider. That is precisely why there are so many peole on here expecting the BBC to provide a more international coverage.

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  • 32. At 10:08am on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    Smithy, my comment, which you probably had not the chance to read as it has been removed did not criticise the BBC for talking about England, at all. I too support England. My comment was about Alan Hansen laughing at Algeria v Slovenia game, complaining about being "inflicted this on his birthday". I said he missed the point, the WC is all about 'small' nations doing their best against the 'big' nations of football, and they deserve respect. I am a UK tax payer, including TV licence payer and want Hansen to respect my national team, when he is on holiday in Africa paid by TV licence money.

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  • 33. At 10:39am on 14 Jun 2010, ferby398 wrote:

    Karamel, don't be so precious..you a creating something out of nothing

    The fact is that Algeria v Slovenia was an awful game. I almost fell asleep watching it. The technical level was apalling.

    Hansen is a pundit on football. You want him to be patronising and say 'for small teams they are doing their best'? That is unforgivable. But the game was terrible, so he said it was terrible. Nothing to do with an imperialistic, pro-England agenda.

    Get a grip.

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  • 34. At 10:42am on 14 Jun 2010, Sam wrote:

    Wow someone somewhere made a lot of cash out of soap boxes today.

    Netherlands 2 Denmark 1

    Japan 1 Cameroon 1

    Italy 0 Paraquay 1

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  • 35. At 10:45am on 14 Jun 2010, Viperooms wrote:

    Karamel No. 32

    I think you are getting the World Cup mixed up with the Olympics. It's not about the taking part. This is the no.1 footballing competition in the world. The standard of football should represent that. As a very experienced footballer and pundit (although at times he makes my blood boil with his bias attitude in the premier league) Alan Hanson has the right the laugh at, what was a truly terrible display from both nations. Every single one of those players are PAID for to play football. Where as at the Olympics, there are a huge number of amateurs, especially from developing and smaller nations, that spend their own money to be able to compete. To laugh at them at a weak performance would be inexcusable. However, this is a professional sport.

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  • 36. At 10:51am on 14 Jun 2010, collie21 wrote:

    2. At 11:10pm on 13 Jun 2010, Zebrudaya wrote:
    Hi Motty:

    I agree , after so much fighting and protesting in your life time to get rid of apartheid you come out with rubbish that the Dutch discovered South Africa. Insensitive at best.

    But the rest of what you say, is mindnumbingly detailed and Monotous. Couldn't we have a separate link to each game please, that noise is as bad as the vuvuzuelas

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  • 37. At 10:52am on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    You are missing the point too 33.ferby398, the game was crap, but what were you expecting from Algeria and Slovenia? This is no Champions league... I was expecting more from the England v USA and was disapointed, was expecting much better from the 1998 champions but was disapointed. I did not laugh however...
    England is still a good team even after their appalling performance. And both Algeria and Slovenia still deserve not to be laughed at after giving their best at a world cup they have been waiting for for years (24 years for Algeria).
    We just want to be part of the party, without attempts to ridicule us from pundits who think nobody is listening. The world is listening, not only British. This is the World Cup not the Premier League. I wonder how Scotish would react if I laughed at their team not even being in the WC, or at England (which by the way I do not want to laugh at, I want to scream) who are not able to win against USA.

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  • 38. At 10:59am on 14 Jun 2010, Sheffield Martin wrote:

    Well I'm not going to sideline comments on a football review site with an idepth discussion on the geo-political history of South Africa. But do think its worth mentioning the negative views of some BBC pundits about the Algeria v Slovenia game.

    I watched the game on "the other channel", and as harsh as this may seem would have to agree that it was a quite dull and underwelhming event. This is not me picking on smaller nations (my own small nation failed to get to the World Cup), just an honest comment on the match. The pundits on "the other channel" also were not impressed, and a quick search through the reviews on the web all seem to have a low opinion of the game. This is not some post to pick on "small nations" - compare this to the very favourable review for the South Korea vs Greece match. Its simply an impartial comment, you might also worth listening to other comments Alan Hansen has made about the England team when they haven't played well. Sometime are teams dont play well ....

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  • 39. At 11:05am on 14 Jun 2010, Mark Holleman wrote:

    @ posting 13 (AnthonyM2010)

    "However, claiming that it would be fitting for Holland to win in the country they discovered is slightly naive when the most famous Dutch legacy was Apartheid which was established and upheld by their Afrikaner descendants."

    I am not sure that you have all the facts straight; South Africa became a British colony from 1806 and from that time on, many European settlers, including many British, arrived in South Africa.

    Therefore, to claim the Dutch discovered South Africa is just as ludicrous as your claim that it was the white people of Dutch descent who established and upheld apartheid in South Africa (which was introduced in 1948), instead of any of the other white people of European descent.

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  • 40. At 11:16am on 14 Jun 2010, froggeh wrote:

    Blimey, lot's of hot politically correct air here. Columbus discovered America (after the Vikings), the Dutch discovered S.Africa.... It's an accepted term, so brush up on your English and get over it, nobody is saying they were fist there. As for Hansen...Well done sir for pointing out what a terrible game that was. I agree 100% and switched off in the end. I'll put up with the plastic bee trumpets for good football, but not for Sunday league jumpers for goalposts bore-fests.

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  • 41. At 11:24am on 14 Jun 2010, RVP scores as easy as 123 wrote:

    #31 - Could you be any more patronising?

    People can expect the BBC to be a Global service provider all they like - but it's NOT - its paid for by the UK taxpayers FOR the UK taxpayers! If you do not like the UK biased views, simple, don't read them!

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  • 42. At 11:30am on 14 Jun 2010, mosub1980 wrote:

    tbh, you shouldn't be surprized by the bahaviour of Hansen, Shearer and Linaker. They are sitting on big fat contracts with no chance of being given the boot no matter how bad their punditary is. This makes them too smug for there own good and is very unappealing to the viewer. But the BBC will defend them all day long.

    My advice to them would be to not to listen to them, just watch the game.

    The game was bad in all fairness but there attitude was out of order. I mean they did not take into account that it was very hot when they were playing and the game was played at atitude.

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  • 43. At 11:35am on 14 Jun 2010, G wrote:

    Reply to Karamel's post 37.

    I am Scottish and you can laugh at our national team all you want because they are totally terrible, but I think even they could have beaten Slovenia or Algeria the other day as it was far below the standard people expect of the world cup finals.

    We like to give out and can take a good slaging in scotland, its practically part of our culture to insult all or friends lol. If you are upset by hansons comments mabye you should grow up, the game was awful ive seen better passing in some junior games in Scotland.

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  • 44. At 11:44am on 14 Jun 2010, mr_hag wrote:

    12, Petrov wrote:
    I think the africans in S.A. have proven more resilient than the Native Americans to the effects of colonization,
    _________________________

    Well, after they kicked the British out the Americans were free to complete the ethnic cleansing of their native peoples, which is part of the reason they rebeled in the first place. The South Africans always oppressed their blacks, but only really got systematic in 1948 with Apartheid, by which time the Germans had brought the tried and tested colonial practice of genocide into disrepute.

    Don't you just love football? It leads you everywhere....

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  • 45. At 11:47am on 14 Jun 2010, Gouch99 wrote:

    What is Capello doing taking Ledley King (clearly not fit - as is now proved), Jamie Carragher (tooooooo slloooowwww).
    Rooney seemed lost for over an hour on Saturday - he needs Gerrard behind him - play Dawson with Terry - and let the midfield pick itself around Lampard...........

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  • 46. At 11:50am on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    #41. I am a UK (a lot of) tax payer and still am Algerian and deserve to watch my team play on the BBC without having to cope with people laughing because they do not get the point. The game was one of the worst games ever, I agree, but I was just happy to watch my team play on the BBC and have these people I had some respect for before, talk about my country in a respectful manner. For once, they had the chance to talk about Algeria in a positive context, not war, not crimes or anything like this. I know our players, and believe me they run their socks off yesterday. Should we allow people who do not have Rooney in their team to participate to the World Cup. I think yes. You might not agree and rather have World Cup with only part of the World that is rich enough to creat a decent side. I do not want this, I want all teams to be involved worldwide, to try their best and to have the respect of the likes of Hansen who have not tried their best all the time.

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  • 47. At 11:51am on 14 Jun 2010, goonerkev wrote:

    Let's neither encourage censorship nor discourage debate - we live in a free country where we are all entitled to our divergent views but, for the purpose of WC 2010, let's use this forum to talk FOOTBALL. At least Motty's faux pas enabled people to take stock of a few issues.

    Frankly, as a professor of history, I wouldn't say that I 'discovered' Britain when I landed here in 2002 but, since we all know damn well what Motty was TRYING TO SAY, then let's not be too pedantic. Oh, by the way, I am of African descent.

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  • 48. At 11:53am on 14 Jun 2010, I am not a number wrote:

    The Dutch were the first to colonize South Africa, the Dutch were certainly not the first Europeans to either reach nor discover (e.g. land on ) South Africa. The Portuguese hold that "honour" 90 years before the creation of the Dutch Republic.

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  • 49. At 11:56am on 14 Jun 2010, CraigT2010 wrote:

    Well said Froggeh (40) and G (43)

    I don't hear anything in Motty's preview that he has said wrong, it's in all history texts that the Dutch did discover South Africa so whats the problem?? Yes everyone knows there were Afrikans there first obviously but history is written by the leading countries in Europe until the world has been fully circumnavigated, thats just the way it is and has always been and always will be. So please get off your high PC horses and accept the fact that thats where history was written (with the odd exception eg China and Middle East)

    Then the punditry of Hanson, Seedorf and Shearer again nothing wrong with it. They are paid to comment on the game as a footballing spectacle, and it most certainly wasn't. And the BBC punditry is far better than 'the other side' as they tried to tell us that England played well on Saturday whereas BBC told us that they were disappointing and they underperformed, as we all know.
    If you don't like the fact that your Nation didn't play well, it's not someone else's fault for pointing out the obvious!!

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  • 50. At 11:59am on 14 Jun 2010, supadupacushty wrote:

    Hold on! whats all this political talk about who discovered which country?

    It is arrogant and stupid to come up with who discovered south africa or any other country! its as if nobody was living in south africa before europeans set foot. its as if the red indians in america were living in a state of non existance before europeans landed and "discovered" them.

    europeans did not discover anything - ask the indians, red indians, africans, aboriganies, new zealanders, etc etc. this is a fact. only thing europeans did was cause turmoil in the places that they went to. sure a lot of the places the british and others "discovered" were given a lot of good things and there are positives that the europeans left behind, but the europeans made sure they got more than they gave. they made sure they looted as much as possible. they made sure that these countries would forever be less superior to them no matter how far they develop.

    the old british divide and conquer tactic is still evident today in kashmir, palastine, any many war torn places in africa.


    best thing we british did was give the world football.

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  • 51. At 12:00pm on 14 Jun 2010, mr_hag wrote:

    Re. Algeria v Slovenia

    I watched the Algerians in the world cup qualification campaign and in the African nations cup, and have developed a really really negative view of their team. So wasn't surprised by their 'diabolical' performance against Slovenia.

    In the African nations cup, the amount of gamesmanship, such as time-wasting and simulating injuries, and general ill discipline, was horrific, especially against Ivory Coast in the quarters, and most especially by their goalkeeper, who seems to be some kind of footballing anti-Christ. I was gutted Egypt lost out to them in qualifying for the world cup - if ever there was a footballing injustice, this was it.

    Algeria deserved sympathy after being robbed of an appearance in the second round in 1982 by Germany and Austria, but any goodwill left over since then is now well and truly gone.

    Algeria play anti-football. Hope England hammer them out of the competition.

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  • 52. At 12:03pm on 14 Jun 2010, CraigT2010 wrote:

    #46 You do have a point yes you do have the right to watch your home country on TV with out them being laughed at but you have to appreciate that whatever team it was who played that badly they would have been laughed at too, it wasn't just Algeria who were criticized it was Slovenia too and i'm not seeing any Slovenians arguing with fact they were rubbish??

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  • 53. At 12:04pm on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    Thanks everybody for sharing your views. It is great to be able to express my views, although, my original post has been banned.

    I still feel upset by Hansen and Lineker laughing at my national team and still don't feel sorry for Hansen's ruined birthday because of our game.

    I will not laugh or denigrate any team, not even Scotland, as there are people who just want to celebrate football and the world coming together like me.

    I need to go back to work, as I still have to pay tax in this Country, so that Hansen can travel to Africa, so bye for now.

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  • 54. At 12:09pm on 14 Jun 2010, mr_hag wrote:

    41. At 11:24am on 14 Jun 2010, RVP scores as easy as 123 wrote:
    #31 - Could you be any more patronising?
    People can expect the BBC to be a Global service provider all they like - but it's NOT - its paid for by the UK taxpayers FOR the UK taxpayers! If you do not like the UK biased views, simple, don't read them!
    ______________________________

    Britain is a very vibrant country with members of the old colonies (and Europe) flocking in in great numbers. The BBC does not need to be sensitive to the world outside in order to be sensitive to other nations, as the world outside is now inside Britain.

    The world is British!

    Well, in a manner of speaking.

    So you're both wrong. Or maybe both right. No, both wrong.

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  • 55. At 12:09pm on 14 Jun 2010, quicksesh wrote:

    Zebrudaya et al ...
    Motson said 'They settled here after discovering the country nearly 400 years ago'.
    If you know the English language the word 'discovering' has the following definition : To notice or learn, especially by making an effort; To learn about for the first time in one's experience.
    So stop bleating on about these references once and for all ....

    ps. Zebrudaya, the word verbatim means: in exactly the same words; word for word - what you did was to paraphrase as you did not transcribe word for word, but put your own inference on the sentence.

    Anyway - can we get back to the football ?

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  • 56. At 12:17pm on 14 Jun 2010, Cassandra wrote:

    Re 41 -I do apologise. I was actually trying to have people be a bit more sensitive to some of your quaint British traditions and ideas.



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  • 57. At 12:18pm on 14 Jun 2010, quicksesh wrote:

    Cassandra - have you streyd into the wron forum, thought this was about the world cup ??

    Anyway think

    Holland 3-2 Denmark
    Japan 1-2 Cameroon
    Italy 2-0 Paraguay

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  • 58. At 12:19pm on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    #52 I am not arguing the fact that we were rubbish. I am complaining about Hansen saying before the game started that his did not want to be inflicted this on his 55th birthday. And about them laughing for a few seconds when it was back to the studio at the break, before confirming that England had nothing to worry about. England shouldn't have anything to worry about since the day of the draw. Why are they worried?
    There are only 2 million Slovenians on this planet and nearly 40 million Algerian, and I am still the only one who is trying to talk our feeling when we are laughed at, when we are trying our best. I spent hours yesterday evening trying to post my comment on the internet before finding this space, and even with this my first comment was removed minutes after it was posted. Enough of trying to calm me down and make me believe that Hansen did not mean to upset Algerians and Slovienians, go and see what he said first before replying. The game was crap, but we tried our best. THIS ALL WE CAN DO, don't worry we won't be able to beat England, we just want to be part of it and loose with dignity.

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  • 59. At 12:20pm on 14 Jun 2010, frequent66 wrote:

    Re: 'DicoveryGate' -

    The great British desire to sling mud never ceases to amaze me. This is hardly Big Ron territory is it?

    To be offended by this benign preamble from a commentator says more about the offended party than the protagonist. Try not to get bogged down in pedantry and move on. If you don't, you could find yourself in a permanent state of outrage where even the printing on your cereal box upsets you in the morning.

    Re: The BBC's coverage

    I think it has been excellent thus far. I enjoyed the highlights of the Algeria vs Slovenia game far more than I enjoyed sitting through the full 90 yesterday.

    We all need to cheer up... the World Cup is on!

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  • 60. At 12:23pm on 14 Jun 2010, CraigT2010 wrote:

    i'd just like to correct myself in point 49 i put Afrikans and i should have put Africans, my mistake

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  • 61. At 12:24pm on 14 Jun 2010, mr_hag wrote:

    This WC coverage is outstanding. I just wish the BBC had all the games.

    Before settling in Britain I lived in a number of countries and visited loads more, and what we get here is superior to anything else out there. The BBC is the greatest broadcaster in the world. I'd gladly pay twice the license fee....

    Sure, they are a bit staid and set in their ways, and they produce some dodgy programs sometimes, and they are dumbing down just a touch, but for sheer overall quality and diversity of programming across all media they can't be beat(en).

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  • 62. At 12:28pm on 14 Jun 2010, indecrowd wrote:

    Look, it is a British site - BBC is BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation - so tootle off back to your own countries and do your whinging there! Motty talks sense if you're English - if you're not then go and listen to someone in your own country. Why should Brits care about coverage of teams outside the UK, we DO want the BBC to concentrate on news and updates about England rateher than reports about other teams. If you are so interested in other teams, go to a website in that country. Simple!!!

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  • 63. At 12:36pm on 14 Jun 2010, mr_hag wrote:

    I'm not a Motson fan, but he is providing a "Day 4 preview", not a history lesson.

    He is providing exactly the kind of statistical background information you'd expect in a "preview". And by now, as a legend of football broadcasting, he has earned the right to go off rambling into 1966 territory a bit at the end - it's called Motty's memories after all.

    If you want analysis, turn to Hansen and co, or use Google to find alternative views. They are out there.

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  • 64. At 12:40pm on 14 Jun 2010, frequent66 wrote:

    Karamel - "There are only 2 million Slovenians on this planet and nearly 40 million Algerian, and I am still the only one who is trying to talk our feeling when we are laughed at, when we are trying our best."

    Defending the pride of a nation is admirable, but you are fighting a losing battle, both in terms of your efforts and finding a suitable repository for your comments. Until the BBC create a special World Cup "Apologise for/defend your nations woeful showing" page, will you continue to clutter these pages? If so, show me where to sign a petition so that you can comment away, on your own, to your hearts content.

    Your team "trying their best" was not good enough. Now you need to find a way to deal with the critique that accompanies it. As I am doing after England's poor start.

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  • 65. At 12:59pm on 14 Jun 2010, CraigT2010 wrote:

    #58 I understand your annoyed about it and I saw it and I know what he said, yes it may have been disrespectful of the two nations playing but it wouldn't have matter whether it was Uruguay and France, they were just as critical. I think they did do a disservice to the match they could have at least done their job and analysed the key moments in the first half, even though there weren't many so I do agree with you on that. Don't think they did that till the end of the match I believe and that was only so they could laugh at the blunder by Chaouchi and reassure Rob Green!!

    Matches today i think the Dutch will win but only just, they've already started and having trouble with width, Van der Vaart might be good be he ain't a left winger!! Then Cameroon will probably beat Japan but it could be a draw, then the Italians will easily overcome Paraguay maybe one or two nil.

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  • 66. At 1:23pm on 14 Jun 2010, Cassandra wrote:

    Predictions:

    England to the semis

    and today

    Holland 1-0 Denmark
    Japan 0-2 Cameroon
    Italy 1-1 Paraguay

    BTW - as I understand it the BBC website is in part funded by adverts which appear when viewed from outside the UK.

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  • 67. At 1:39pm on 14 Jun 2010, MikeOtar wrote:

    The World Cup is being spoit for my grandson and myself because of the insensate and intrusive background noise like a swarm of wasps. We are now watching without the sound.
    Mike Otar

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  • 68. At 1:41pm on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    #64. frequent66: I do not need you to sign any petition, because I do not need your approbation to defend the pride of my nation. I am trying to get my message across to Hansen and to get people to maybe try and think differently. It is not funny to laugh the way they did it at two nations trying their best. Our best is not good enough and we know it. But what were our players thinking yesterday? Probably that it is enough to keep the ball and defend to try and get a point, is this not what the 'Good Enough' do, the likes of France and England? What was our keeper thinking? Probably the same as Robert Green, that it is enough to try. What was our stupid striker thinking? Probably the same as Maradonna or Thierry Henry, when they put their hand because it was all they could do.
    Now I agree with a lot of people here who say I should take the criticism for the game yesterday and believe you me I am doing it. All Algerians know that we are not good enough. However, I still have the right to watch my team on the BBC without pundits being disrespectful.
    I also agree that we should talk about football instead of all the things around football, so here is my opinion:
    England will top the group, regardless of Hansen's ruined birthday. England is my country too and I think we have all the chances to win this world cup, if only our players (the English ones) did their best in the same way as the Algerian ones and the Slovenian ones.
    I also hope that Slovenia will have a chance to go through as they now need to win against the USA, not just draw thanks to England.

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  • 69. At 1:42pm on 14 Jun 2010, georgito wrote:

    Hi Motty, so of all people its the Germans we should be thanking this morning! Firstly we need them to win their group so that we can avoid meeting them early on, and secondly for their entertaining performance - best on show by a mile.

    What do you make of the officials? I must say they have been consistently good but also not card shy to say the least. This worries me a bit when you think we picked up 3 daft ones against USA...your thoughts?

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  • 70. At 2:47pm on 14 Jun 2010, RozzaRobo wrote:

    Motty
    Really SAD to say I have already given up watching this world cup - the reason is the awful giant-buzzing-mosquito wall of sound.And its got nothing to do with 'traditional African culture' either. The vuvzelas were only just introduced last year. Is the atmosphere the worst you have ever experienced at a world cup? I certainly think so. There’s no chance for any local or country specific tunes or personalities to come through. It’s all just one monotonous, mundane drone without any humour or spirit. I tried turning the telly down in order to watch the games but that's not very interesting.I would've thought Africans would be the last people to enjoy this horrible noise. I was expecting to hear hypnotic African drumbeats, Latin Americam rythyms and the bands that often accompany the European countries. Instead we get this - Organisers have got this really wrong.

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  • 71. At 2:58pm on 14 Jun 2010, I Say Porter wrote:

    Anyone who says the Dutch did not 'discover' South Africa needs to look up 'discover' in a dictionary. Any dictionary. You can discover something which has been previously discovered by somebody else. It does not need to be uninhabited to be 'discovered'. The Vikings, for example, discovered some islands just off the coast of mainland Europe which were inhabited by other peoples. The fact they were inhabited does NOT stop them being 'discovered'. The rest of the Vikings did not know these islands existed until those Vikings who went there AND THEN WENT HOME and told people.

    With the exception of the hosts, ALL the teams in South Africa earned the right to be there through competition in their geographical locations. Therefore, during qualification, they were better teams than others in their groups. If they then play appallingly, pundits should be free to say "that was appalling".

    My money's on the Ivory Coast.

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  • 72. At 3:57pm on 14 Jun 2010, Notasquick wrote:

    Netherlands to top group form Cameroon:
    Netherlands v Denmark 3-0 (Bendtner misses again);
    Japan v Cameroon 2-2 (Eto brace);

    Italy to top Group D from Paraguay:
    Italy v Paraguay 1-1 (Yellow cards all round);

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  • 73. At 4:38pm on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    I agree with you "I say Porter", I do not like the Vuvuzelas and I am african. Why can we not have songs and drums and salsa and all the variety?

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  • 74. At 5:19pm on 14 Jun 2010, G_K___ wrote:

    Terrible news for the tournament that the vuvuzelas are not to be banned.

    It is ludicrous to hear them described - by a "tournament official" - as "ingrained in the history of South Africa" For one thing, there's nothing historic about them: they are a relatively new phenomenon. For another, they are mostly not even made in South Africa, but in China - the South Africans merely import them.

    If indeed they do represent the 'true spirit of South Africa', then that country's future in the global economy is bleak indeed. Could there be anything more moronic than a large crowd of people, giving every impression of utter mindlessness, bleating constantly on an idiot horn with no reference to anything going on around them?

    If that's their idea of culture then their country is impoverished in far more than economic terms.

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  • 75. At 5:25pm on 14 Jun 2010, monkey wrote:

    31. cassandra
    "BTW these days people see the BBC as a global service provider. That is precisely why there are so many peole on here expecting the BBC to provide a more international coverage"

    You see the bbc as being a worldwide news provider ? well it's paid for by British people so i'm sure most British people would not object to a slight biase towards any of the home countries , it just so happens it's England this time .
    Maybe this is a little quaint for you , but maybe international users should pay for this service provided free of charge by the dear old auntie , just a thought ......

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  • 76. At 5:48pm on 14 Jun 2010, G_K___ wrote:

    The curse of Pele strikes again!

    The Brazilian maestro, known for the almost scary consistency of his predictions - they are invariably wrong - has done it again.

    Pre-tournament he tipped an african team to make the final, which has proved the kiss of doom.

    Nigeria - Beaten
    Cameroon - Beaten - by Japan
    Algeria - Beaten - by mighty European giants Slovenia

    Even the hosts South Africa could manage only a draw against Mexico, and are now the bookies favourites to finish bottom of their group.

    Is Pele really a jinx, or are the african teams just not up to much?

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  • 77. At 5:54pm on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    75. Monkey: No 'international users' would choose to watch their game on the BBC if they were not living in the UK, they would watch their teams in their country, in their language, with their supporters and their pundits. We are trying to feel happy for our team during this World Cup even if we are far away from our countries.

    Our world today is such that 'international users' live in the UK and pay tax and TV licence fees in the UK, so you are not the only ones paying for the BBC.

    There is nothing wrong about being biaised towards your country, who wouldn't? and I too enjoy watching England and knowing what is going on in their camp. This does not justify ridiculising other countries.

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  • 78. At 7:51pm on 14 Jun 2010, Zebrudaya wrote:

    Having originally posted the comments on Motson's "Dutch discover South Africa", I am amazed at the comments I have seen on this forum. I don't care for an apology from Motty and did not ask for one. What I wanted to highlight was the inaccuracy of his comment, simple. Making such an obversation does not in an anyway imply that Motty is racist. Never intended, never implied.

    Motty, the Dutch did not "discover" South Africa, they settled and colonized South Africa. Discover means to find something previously non-existent

    quicksesh;
    I understand the meaning of the word, verbatim. I quoted exactly what Motty said, 100%, except it has now been edited.

    BTW, the Algeria v Slovenia game is the worst so far. I actually abandoned it and went to finish my gardening. Up Inger-land

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  • 79. At 11:32pm on 14 Jun 2010, Karamel wrote:

    Here we go Hasen has done it again. He offered his seat to humble and classy Seadorf for the New Zeeland v Slovakia game. We all agree that this was after the Italy game, ie well before the NZ v S game. I have not heard him offering his pay for the day to anyone??
    Respect Mr Hansen, both New Zeeland and Slovakia are going to do their best. They deserve your respect. Just get on with what you are paid to do: analyse the game. You are allowed to say it is rubbish when it is, like our Algerian game (I can't believe we have been so crap by the one), but for god's sake, keep your insults and your laughs to the premier league.
    You have no right to insult a whole nation. The world Cup for Algerians, Slovenians, Slovakians and the paople of New Zeeland is a celebration and we want to be able to watch our teams without being laughed at.

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  • 80. At 10:20am on 15 Jun 2010, pat-the-cat wrote:

    I agree with Karamel it just shows a level of ignorance & arrogance.
    Motson is a perfect example of this!

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  • 81. At 2:35pm on 15 Jun 2010, Rob04 wrote:

    #62

    Look, it is a British site - BBC is BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation - so tootle off back to your own countries and do your whinging there! Motty talks sense if you're English - if you're not then go and listen to someone in your own country.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm not English and there is no other coverage in the UK except for the BBC, or EBC as its widely known!

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  • 82. At 09:29am on 16 Jun 2010, michael wrote:

    if everyone gets so offended by comments of the nature of hansens where he said he didnt want to be there for his birthday, im very surprised that other people have not been upset before.

    i really enjoy the bbc coverage...and a big part of it is that they dont take all of the games seriously. they are happy to have a laugh,joke around etc. which i actually find entertaining. big football nations, small football nations...i'd say there is still plenty of jokes etc.

    as a critic on the shows, im sure no matter which teams were playing, if the match was bad, it would be said it was bad. usually with the odd joke/dig thrown in. just the same as if the game is good...or if one of the players really played a blinder, they would be singing their praises.

    its entertaining. least i think so. im pretty sure the motd coverage has always been like this in recent years? and im not sure why it would offend now if it has not done so before? I dont think they reserve that just for smaller nations.

    and about the birthday comment well....if it was a thrilling 3-3 draw...i guess he would have been the first to say how surprised it was. as it was....im not sure if it would be a way i'd want to spend my birthday either. thats not unusual or offensive...just the truth. Id feel the same way if England were in a game like that.



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  • 83. At 10:04pm on 20 Jun 2010, Clive wrote:

    Can some one get a message to Alan Hansen Please?
    Ask him if he could have one game with an "absolutely" free night
    That is not use the word Absolutely
    Take it from his vocabulary and he would be dumb

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