World Cup 2006 Blog

From our reporters in Germany

The greatest party that never was

MartinDORTMUND - For the second time in four days I was there, in the thick of it waiting for the boiling atmosphere to bubble over and the party to start.

But again the atmosphere was killed in a second - the second it took Fabio Grosso to curl the ball round Jens Lehmann and into the net to set Germany on the way to World Cup semi-final defeat.

It's such a shame the way it has ended for the hosts.

They have been friendly and self-effacing, not wanting to play up their team's chances too much but secretly wishing their dream would come true.

Quite apart from the way other nations have reacted to the Germans in this tournament, they have grown as a nation themselves.

germanydefeat3_203.jpg Maybe that's why when the hammer blow of Alessandro del Piero's second goal came they took it on the chin - a lot better than the English fans managed anyway.

Maybe that comes down to expectation, the Germans exceeded their modest ones with a semi-final appearance while Sven-Goran Eriksson's men failed to live up to their own over-inflated ones with another last-eight exit.

There were no excuses being bandied around, a lot acknowledged the Italians were the better side - the team with more adventure in extra time.

That's not to say they weren't devastated by defeat.

The streets of Dortmund were packed from about 1pm, everybody with a German flag, tattoo or replica shirt - the Italians were encountered very rarely.

The sweltering heat and beating sun did nothing to dampen a growing party atmosphere - this was it, this was going to be glory for Jurgen Klinsmann's side, no doubt about it...

I was trying to find the ideal venue for the game as it kicked off, the German national anthem echoing around the now empty streets as I ducked my head in one bar after another - including one aborted attempt to get a vantage point in a place called HappyHappyDingDong.

I finally settled in a sports club in a side street called Badukan, specialing in martial arts, to watch the first half, but headed to the city centre's vast fan fest - incorporating five big screens - during the break.

That was packed to the rafters so I jostled for a view of one screen from the centre of a quite major junction.

Check out our pictures soon - it's rather late now.

Some were using beer kegs and palettes to gain those few extra inches needed for a clearer view of the action - and anybody too tall in front was greeted with a volloy of bottle tops and told to get out of the way.

A lot of people had given up by the end, and sat on the kerbs content to be within the atmosphere without actually seeing the screens.

The mood had been nervous throughout, and there was just a massive groan as Grosso's shot hit the net - they must have fancied their chances on penalties and to come so late the goal was a cruel blow.

The second goal just sent people flooding towards the U-bahn, the dream over.

It didn't take long for cries of "Super Deutschland" to rise above the post-match anlaysis, but I just slunk away into the night, another potentially massive party scuppered.

With the amount of people out on the streets, it's hard to imagine what it would have been like for the final in Berlin.

But instead, it is the modest number of Italians that will be there, and I'm sure the hosts will greet them with open arms.

"A time to make friends" is the World Cup slogan and no-one can doubt the Germans, people and football team, have done that - sorry your party was spoiled.

Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 05:00 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Del wrote:

Well done Germany and thank you for putting on a fantastic show. Premature i know but I'm sure Berlin will be the icing on the cake.

As for the game, the best i've seen this tournament. A swashbuckling Germany finally stopped by a talented and (thankfully) adventurous Italy.

Good luck Portugal, France and Italy. May fortune favor the brave.

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  • 2.
  • At 05:58 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Wes wrote:

Even though Germany are not going to reach the final, they played very well beyond what a lot of people expected.

Had the match gone on to penalties chances are that Germany would have won it but credit to Italy, they played well especially in extra time where their substitutions where spot on and deserve their victory in the end.

Lets hope that Germany will at least get third place.

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  • 3.
  • At 08:00 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • ves wrote:

I played competitive soccer most of my life. I was a talented player who could read the field very well. I am old now, but I can still read the game as such that I did not find any think wrong with Cristiano(sp)Rinaldo penalty shot against England.
Someone is trying to convince me that Rinaldo was hesitant or whatever and the kick should not have been allowed.
What is your take on that?

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  • 4.
  • At 08:07 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • ves wrote:

I played competitive soccer most of my life. I was a talented player who could read the field very well. I am old now, but I can still read the game as such that I did not find any think wrong with Cristiano(sp)Rinaldo penalty shot against England.
Someone is trying to convince me that Rinaldo was hesitant or whatever and the kick should not have been allowed.
What is your take on that?

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  • 5.
  • At 08:10 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • ves wrote:

Congratulations to the german national team. They did exceed their expectations

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  • 6.
  • At 08:11 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Toto wrote:

It is games like this which make the magic of the World Cup.

The finale was absolutely breathtaking and with two European football powers battling all out on the pitch, the game could have shifted to either side and it was a well-motivated Italy who came out on top.

With so many goal scorers from different setpieces, Italy sure deserve to lift the trophy on Sunday. They've been out of major tournaments at the eraly stages for the past two decades and this is the right time for them.

As for the hosts, Germany's flair is coming out of age and it is without any doubt that they will emerge as top contenders for Euro 2008. Let's hope they leave the competition with an honourable 3rd place. Congratulations to both.

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  • 7.
  • At 08:37 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Joseph from Malta wrote:

What a great show of lovely football & sportsmanship.....this was one of the best semi-finals ever. The home crowd's support was enormous, simply deafening, the teams gave their heart out....fighting for every ball.....yet it was also, IMO, a triumph for fair play. The cherry on the cake were the two great goals from Fabio Grosso & Alessandro Del Piero.

May this match set the exmple for fair play, healthy agonism & football spectacle for years to come.

On to the final....may the best team win the World Cup.

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  • 8.
  • At 08:43 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Armando wrote:

Congrats to the German team for another great game against Italy. They played with skill, determination and honour, and they can keep their head high. I'll surely root for Germany for the 3rd post final, and I look forward to the next challenge.

As for Der Spiegel, the Bild, and the other losers. How does it feel to be owned by "greasy parasites" ? I suspect it is painful, but you know better.

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  • 9.
  • At 08:58 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • John wrote:

@Armando: At least we only have media writing that, not Prime Ministers.

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  • 10.
  • At 09:06 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Mike wrote:

Congrats to Italy for making the finals after a thrilling semi with Germany.

And the English think their team would've been a match for either of these??? Or beaten France?????

Good grief. Talk about delusional.

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  • 11.
  • At 09:13 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Michael wrote:

As a German I wanna say thanks to our team - you have been great and changed our country! Thanks to Jürgen and a special thanks to Germany for beeing what you've been!

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  • 12.
  • At 09:28 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • AndreasR wrote:

Gratulazione Italia!
You have neen the better team yesterday.

Germany is crying but with a proud smile in it's face.

Please. please, please Jürgen stay with our young Mannschaft!

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  • 13.
  • At 09:36 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Dadooronronroninho wrote:

When interviewed after the game Klinsmann was asked whether he would carry on and said he would go back to California and talk to his wife first. Clear message in that, I think.
From his personal point of view he might think that he should quit while at the top, I don't mean as tournament winner but while everyone in Germany loves him. Also Loew can be trusted to develop the team in the same general direction as an attacking and attractive side.
However, Klinsmann may not realise how much his attitude had meant to Germans. They have been somewhat a nation of moaners ever since the euphoria of reunification wore off, and Klinsmann has shown them that a more positive attitude can really move mountains. Maybe the country needs to see his example for a while longer. He's become more than just a football coach.

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  • 14.
  • At 09:37 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Keith wrote:

BERLIN! BERLIN! Wir fahren nach.... erm, uh.... Stuttgart.

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  • 15.
  • At 09:40 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Antonio wrote:

What an amazing game of football. This is how football should be played in true sportsmanship spirit.

In the end the best team on the night won and Germany were also excellent.

At times it was like watching a five-a-side match, enthralling end-to-end stuff.

Fantastico!

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  • 16.
  • At 09:41 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • steve wrote:

As a Spurs fan, I've been really pleased with the way Jurgen has motivated the team and country during the past 4 weeks. Hard luck Germany, however, as Ricco? said yesteday, the thought of another star on the German shirt would have been very hard to take.

By the way Fletch & Ricco, have followed you every inch of the way through this blog and an an armchair fan, would like to say thanks very much for a brilliant time. Loved it!

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  • 17.
  • At 09:44 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Julian wrote:

I wasn't sure if I was going to watch the match or not, since England had gone out. I'm glad I did. For me that was the best game of the tournament. It was fantastic watching Italy playing attacking football and making the most of their creative players. I have to say I thought it would end up going to penalties and that Germany would win, but I'm glad it didn't. Penalties is an awful way to lose. It was tough on Germany, but to lose to two great goals like that is a much more fitting way to lose than for someone to end up being the villain in a penalty shoot out. This way everyone is a hero, win or lose.

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  • 18.
  • At 09:44 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Pete L wrote:

The game last night was the best I have seen for a very long time. Why?
Because it was played by two teams who were professional throughout;no diving, no faking injuries, no trying to get the opponent booked/sent off by surrounding the ref, handshakes throughout the game. Oh and the ref, he was superb; no pettiness, let the game flow, cards not shown willy nilly.
That game should be shown to the likes of the Portugals of this world as an example of how our beautiful game should be played.

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  • 19.
  • At 09:56 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Jon wrote:

Absolutely brilliant, full marks to both teams, they played as england could have (with 11 men) and it was thrilling to see the italian goals, let no one criticise the so-called 'boring italian' football, with opponents like germany, how can any team be boring!

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  • 20.
  • At 09:57 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • San wrote:

Hey, great report :) I think its great that so many english fans supported Germany or said they played well... Im german and my boyfriend is english and I support both teams and the best thing about this WC was that I saw so many germans and english getting along and Im glad the opinion about Germany in english eyes improved a bit. I thought the german team played great throughout the whole tournament but yesterday Italy was just that tiny bit better. Its a shame that neither Germany or England made it to the finals but Im already looking forward to the next Euro and crossing my fingers for both (maybe a tiny bit more for England ;)

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  • 21.
  • At 10:03 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • pete wrote:

germany can be proud of what they have achieved on and off the pitch. one of the best games ive ever seen, was this the italian team that played australia?? they blow so hot and cold but last night they were awesome. i doubt very much that the final will be as good they very rarely are.i will be in berlin this weekend and was hoping for a latin team to be in the finals,or at least the hosts, alas neither will be there. i think its been a super world cup albeit the referees (and they are under strict orders from fifa).looking forward to the 2nd semi tonight.Its so much easier to enjoy a game when its not your own team playing!!

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  • 22.
  • At 10:14 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • The Revd Prof J M Day wrote:

I found last evening's game an enthralling spectacle of athletic skill, non-stop effort, and edifying sportsmanship, goodwill, and healthy expression of emotion. This was sport at its best. I'm married to a German, lived in Germany for three years, was in Berlin as the Wall was coming down, and now live in Belgium where attitudes towards Germany are, at best, ones of marked ambivalence. All I hear around me today are comments of admiration and respect for the quality of German gastfreundschaft and sportsmanship.Kudos to the people of Germany for the superb way in which they have hosted the World Cup, and to their fans for the display of support, good humour, and dignity in the face of defeat. You have shown the world you are capable of rising to the occasion in splendid, exemplary, fashion!!! Bravo Deutschland!

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  • 23.
  • At 10:16 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • poncho wrote:

Good to see Germany out, was even better to see England dumped out

Bellisimo.

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  • 24.
  • At 10:27 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Mark wrote:

Chris,

you have had your personal experniences with english and german fans... but I dont think you can turn this into a general statement.

There were on more than one occasion racist songs being sung by English football supporters in Germany against Germans, Portugese etc... Looking at what has happend (almost nothing) last night after germany lost in terms of riots I do believe the Germans know how to be good loosers...Througout the tournament the Germans have been good hosts and supported all participating nations. That is something that you dont usually get at WorldCups. Maybe its time for you (after 7 years) to move back to England and put it all into perspective...

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  • 25.
  • At 10:27 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Lars wrote:

The party will go on !!! :)

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  • 26.
  • At 10:32 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Michael wrote:

@Chris (#21): First of all, German newspapers, tabloids etc. are reflecting Germans as good as the Sun reflects the English. Second, the Spiegel article was a skit. The guy writes satires about everything each week in the Spiegel. OK, this time he went a bit too far and Spiegel apologized for it, but when people start taking skits serious then we have quite a lot of problems. Third, I also heard a few German kids yell stupid shit at Italians last night. I did however also see a lot of people (me included) walk over to the Italians and congratulate them to their victory. Saying that Germans can't loose with style just because of some drunk idiots would be the same as saying that all English fans are hooligans just because of a handful of stupid idiots. They are not (actually all English fans I met were very nice). And most Germans can loose with style and don't want to be put in the same box with these drunk kids. Or as a German comedian always says: No hairs on their balls yet, but being loud-mouths...

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  • 27.
  • At 10:38 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • bex wrote:

Oh dear - still feeding stereotypes??? why are you living in Germany then CHRIS??? Why is there always somebody who has to be spiteful when all the other comments have been civilized... I am German and living in England too and, like SAN, am happy that germany has given the world a fantastic World Cup and has been in the (English!) press for the right reasons for once! It is unfortunately for people like you, Chris, that your own tabloids succeed in feeding stereotypes and hatred. How can any one WHOLE country be basic this or fundamentally that - there obviously still are SOME very narrow-minded English people along with the MANY English that can just see beyond these old prejudices.
Yesterday was a game of football, not more, not less. It is normal to support your national team but to also respect it when the other team was slightly better. In a grown-up, civilized way.End of story.

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  • 28.
  • At 10:43 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Vis wrote:

It was probably the best game of this tournament...What a beautiful game it was...Both the teams played so well that it was nearly impossible to judge which team might win till the last minute of Extra time...Luckily it didnt end in penalties...Italy was tiny bit better in the last minute...Congrats and good luck to Italy...Keep up the good work Germany the 3rd place is still there and keep an eye on Euro 2008....

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  • 29.
  • At 10:45 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Nate wrote:

Chris,as someone said you cant make sweeping statements based on crap written in the rags like Bild and some rubbish online article on Der Spiegel. If you generalize in that way then it would be easy to cite english as racist hooligans which we know is not the case. I have been in Germany for a week and watched the match with my italian fiance in a bar in Munich. The atmosphere was convivial and the locals were friendly even when italy scored. It left me very impressed and pleased that the stereotype racist german fan is not everywhere... clearly there are a few like everywhere but they are not the defining quality of this WC.

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  • 30.
  • At 10:46 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Mike wrote:

In reply to post 21.
I am Welsh and have been living in Frankfurt for 5 years and have found that my adopted homeland to be great sports.
There is racism in football on all sides and sorry, the British are the same as well, they are not angels.
There are "papers" as well in the uk, eg the Sun who have printed trash about Germany and are now constantly whining about Roony et al - sore loosers or what?
I have whitnessed racist remarks made about Germany and the Germans by the English football fans while they were in Frankfurt - people who think that all the English fans were great and polite are the naive ones!
Germany HAS humility and is not as racist as you make it out to be.
Every country has its faults - including Britain.
Simple really, if you dont like it here you can always go back...

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  • 31.
  • At 10:48 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Yuda wrote:

Germany deserved its well played and reputation throughout this tournament. I was very pleased to see they have displayed a whole new era of German attacking football under Klisnmann as a striker in his golden era. The German was even trying to square the score until Italy did the counter attack and made it 2-0 in the end. The loss to Italy at the very end was really a blow to all German fans around the world, BUT this could be the beginning of the new attacking German team for the world cup ahead. GOOD LUCK GERMANY FOR THE WORLD CUPS AHEAD...

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  • 32.
  • At 10:50 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Rajeev Kapoor wrote:


I am a die-hard fan of Germany and i congratulate them on thier superb performance in this World Cup. I feel sorry that the party had to come to an end in such a cruel way. The only solace i have is that Germany played well through out the competition and in the end lost to a better team, Italy. Kudos to Italy and Good Luck.
I hope Germany atleast finish 3rd to put some icing on the cake to top up the great hosts they have been and good luck in the future.
Hope Klinsman stays to take them to even more greater heights as he is the right man for this job.
BRAVO DEUTSCHLAND

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  • 33.
  • At 10:51 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Edgar wrote:

At first, sorry for my english..

It was a big party here in my hometown of Cologne with an undescribebal number of people dancing in the streets, making each evening to a fantastic happening.
Stood with many thousands on a public viewing point in the shadow of the cologne cathedral.
There were no real problems, not with english fans, neither Germans or anyone else.

Of course i´m sad about the two italian goals, but i´m sure in a few days i will know, that the squadra was that tic better. Of course, in these minutes i refuse those ideas as impertinent..

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  • 34.
  • At 10:52 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Keith wrote:

As an Englishman living in Germany (18 years), I supported them against Argentina at a fan party on Friday. As "a guest with friends" I wore my England shirt and was promptly rewarded with abuse "fahr nach Hause Ars..loch" and physically pushed down some steps by 3 young Germans! My support for the German team ended there and then.

Last night was so sweet. Thankyou Italy!

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  • 35.
  • At 10:58 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Ballack wrote:

Congratulation Italy. Especially on how you eliminated one of Germany's top players - namely Frings - before the match. That will not be forgotten, although German officials try no to mention this absolutely unfair behavior of Italian media and officials.

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  • 36.
  • At 11:00 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Mairead wrote:

I was so sad last night that Germany lost. Of course the Italians were the better team but those young Germans touched my heart.
I hope Juergen Klinsmann will remain couch. He's a heart and soul man and authentic.

Auf Wiedersehen, Martin Richardson!
Mairéad

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  • 37.
  • At 11:01 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Doc M. wrote:

It's over. Our brave squad lost a very close match. Congratulations to Italy. They showed Portugal how to win and behave like real sportsmen at the same time - no diving, no faking, no provocations.
Next week football is leaving home. It was a great experience to host people from all around the world in Germany. I hope you had a great time - we positively had. See you at the EURO 2008 in Austria and Switzerland.

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  • 38.
  • At 11:01 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Philipp Trempenau (Berlin, Germany) wrote:

Sorry to hear that, Keith. I wouldn't have pushed you. I would have reached out my hand and bought you a pint !!

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  • 39.
  • At 11:03 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Lebo wrote:

I am an exprience sport student but among other things I am soccer local players.The games between African teams and other continent are highly implicated with the referees' failures to be fair in their judgement.For that matter I think referees have to be helped to be free from biased thinking.

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  • 40.
  • At 11:03 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Max wrote:

...Poor, innocent, young bear Bruno has been vindicated at least! ;-)

To the german fans: sorry guys, but Italy was WAY better, worked out this victory attacking and finally beating misluck (2 posts), while Germany seemed, in the end, to wait only for penalties. Maybe playing in the invincible Dortmund stadium, backed by all the country, was too much a pressure for Ballack and friends. However, you'll probbaly see the work of Klinsi in 2008, now the German team seems too young and unexperienced.
Remeber this: I know now it hurts but think that we have lost a WC at the penalties (US 94). and think that italians supported the German team in 1990 like it was ours.

To the english fans: the only suggestion I may give here to you is to get rid off some show-biz players like Beckam, they're just good to end in magazines. SGE must go too, in Italy he was thinked to be another Liedholm while he was clearly not. Italy suffered the same disease - too much paid and capricious players - now those people are out and we are palying good again.

To the french fans: I think it's time we meet again and see if we may set the 2000 EC open issue.

WE ARE COMING!

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  • 41.
  • At 11:09 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Stephan wrote:

I am sad that Germany lost. But hey - it's only a game and someone has to lose. But it was a fair game and exciting to watch. No reason to end the party. We have many Italians living in Germany and now I am happy for them. If they keep playing like this, they will surely win the World Cup.
One more thing: Don't read the stupid crap written in tabloids. I refuse to accept the idea that they represent their countrymen as some have suggested.

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  • 42.
  • At 11:10 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Andrew Donaldson wrote:


For the first time ever I wanted Germany, England having been eliminated of course, to win the World Cup.

They have played with a high degree of honesty and integrity and as host nation have put on a fantastic show. I was fortunate enough to attend all of England's group games and have to say the welcome and hospitality extended to us in each of the cities was quite heartwarming, even more so given the reputation of our travelling fans!!

Well done Germany!!!!

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  • 43.
  • At 11:16 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Tobias wrote:

To Keith:
You have posted that comment in another thread already. If you read the posts aboce you will learn that judging about all the fans by the bad behavoiur of some idiots is just not fair. Yesterday evening I did not meet anyone who didn´t say that Italy was a deserved winner after all. So there is no talking about the ref or whatever. If you live here for 18 years, you should know better.

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  • 44.
  • At 11:17 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • tom blashill wrote:

We see action replays seconds after the incident. Refs are 'wired' to other officials who could see the replay and advise. They do it in cricket.It takes less time than time taken to take out a yellow card. There is so much time wasting by tackled players writhing like dying swans. Simple solution - NO assistance on the field - stretcher bearers IMMEDIATELY take the player off and he stays off for 5 minutes.
Come on someone, tell me I am not being unrealistic

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  • 45.
  • At 11:19 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Sandra wrote:

First of all I want to say that the game yesterday was amazing and both teams have given their best. Congratulations to the Italian Team!!
I am German and live in England, and of course I would've liked to see Germany winning, but at the end of the day the better team won- it is just a game and nothing to be upset about. Much more important than winning the tournament is the atmosphere in Germany, were so many different Nations are celebrating peacefully with each other. This is what will bear in peoples minds long after the tournament is over and nobody thinks about the winner of the Worldcup anymore.
To Chris I would like to say that it seems very 'infantile' to generalise all Germans, just because there are a few rotten apples!!!!!

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  • 46.
  • At 11:24 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Martina Frank wrote:

First of all, I am very pleased that the German football players managed to improve the very wrong picture of Germany that has been held up by Sun and the like for so many years. Most people who were responsible for WWII are dead. And we, the generations born after that horrible time, have nothing to do with the deeds of our grandfathers and are in no way responsible for them. We are indeed sick of being accused of racism. Why should we be the only country in the world where the people are not allowed to wave their flag. Why should we not be allowed to be proud of our country? If you are a good sport, you don't make the grandchildren pay for the faults of their grandparents. I hope this racism against Germany will finally come to an end. By the way: I personally love England.

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  • 47.
  • At 11:34 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Hendrik wrote:

Keith, I'm very sorry to hear that. But you can't always tell what half-drunken people are up to! I think it can also happen if you go to Scotland to support their side against ... say, Spain.

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  • 48.
  • At 11:34 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • carl wrote:

Maybe Germany's loss was easier to take on the chin because, like England in Korea, they were outplayed and beaten by the better team on the night. England's exit very frustrating as we were knocked out by one of the tournaments most devious teams, something Mr. Gallas has picked up on. It's a shame that sporting affairs such as last night have been the tournaments exception rather than the rule. The "entertainment" at the World Cup comes at a hefty price, it's not unreasonable to expect better from officials and players. Good luck Italy and France, anyone but the cheats.

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  • 49.
  • At 11:34 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Keith wrote:

To Tobias: I do not judge other fans on the basis of the 3 idiots who abused me. On the contrary. Kudos to the Germans for a great World Cup. Please allow me a little satisfaction that my abusers from Friday were denied another night of celebration :-)

PS 18 years of endless harping on about of 54, 74 and 90 along with "it wasn't in in 66" made it difficult enough for me to shout for the Germans. But I did! Expect we won't be hearing that silly song in the radio anymore.

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  • 50.
  • At 11:35 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Sean O'Hara wrote:

What a fantastic game of football…
Right from the very first minute both teams set out their stall and played with verve, passion, ingenuity, skill and with no small amount of respect for their opposition.
That’s not to say that there wasn’t some tough tackling from both sides but congratulation to the referee for giving them the opportunity to play football and in turn to the players for not abusing his trust and forcing him to act otherwise.
The Italians players especially, of who it was once thought were given a degree in histrionics when qualifying from soccer school, were a revelation.
Certain players from other teams, who have disgraced themselves in this competition, should have hung their heads in shame as they watch the masters of the triple pirouette gunshot roll eschew their natural instinct in honour of the game and in doing so produced one of the best matches of the tournament.
Congratulation Italy and Germany for playing the game in a manner that should have be set as standard from the beginning of this tournament.

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  • 51.
  • At 11:35 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Alando wrote:

@ 35: This must have really gotten to you since you seem to post this in a couple of threads regarding Germany and the World Cup.

It is a shame that what you described happened here.

On the other hand I must say if you have lived in Germany for 18 years you must be old enough to know that it is ridiculous to condemn a whole nation just because of some druink idiots. If you find the wrong people you might have gotten the exact same traetament in almost every country of the world. It is sad that someone who has lived in Germany for 18 years judges a whole nation by some drunk morons.

I have seen drunk Englishman shouting abuse and pushing people of other nations as well but is that a reason to whish bad luck to the English nation or its national team?

I feel sorry for you Keith and not only because you have been verbally abused and pushed ...

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  • 52.
  • At 11:36 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Sean O'Hara wrote:

What a fantastic game of football…
Right from the very first minute both teams set out their stall and played with verve, passion, ingenuity, skill and with no small amount of respect for their opposition.
That’s not to say that there wasn’t some tough tackling from both sides but congratulation to the referee for giving them the opportunity to play football and in turn to the players for not abusing his trust and forcing him to act otherwise.
The Italians players especially, of who it was once thought were given a degree in histrionics when qualifying from soccer school, were a revelation.
Certain players from other teams, who have disgraced themselves in this competition, should have hung their heads in shame as they watch the masters of the triple pirouette gunshot roll eschew their natural instinct in honour of the game and in doing so produced one of the best matches of the tournament.
Congratulation Italy and Germany for playing the game in a manner that should have be set as standard from the beginning of this tournament.

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  • 53.
  • At 11:39 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Philipp Trempenau (Berlin, Germany) wrote:

To all the England fans: Don't you think you are making a little bit too much fuzz about that red card for WR ? I mean it sounds like that was the only reason why England lost. Isn't it possible, that England just wasn't good enough this year ?

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  • 54.
  • At 11:41 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • mark from coundon wrote:

Just got back from Berlin and Gelsenkirchen. Dissapointed for ourselves firstly and now for the Germans. They have been magnificent hosts and I have never enjoyed myself so much as I have in these last three days, the noise, the colour, the fans from all over the world, no animosity just beautiful people in love with the beautiful game.

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  • 55.
  • At 11:42 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Keith wrote:

To Alando: Thankyou. I feel much better now :-)

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  • 56.
  • At 11:42 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • John Russel wrote:

Germany played well but the best team won. I would feel sorry for Germans but what I read in the German newspaper in the past days was so bad, arrogant and offensive against Italians that I can only say:
"Cry and shut up now! Germany will never beat Italy."

Also answering to Toto that here wrote about Italy "They've been out of major tournaments at the early stages for the past two decades and this is the right time for them."

This is incorrect maybe this guy is talking about England :)
Italy CV : 1990 Semi-final, 1994 Final, 1998 Quarter, 2002 Eight, 2006 ..Final at least. Not that early stages dude.

FORZA ITALIA!

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  • 57.
  • At 11:43 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Der Blogmeister wrote:

And hats off for the referee, Benito Tellez, who helped the match to become so entertaining. After a 10 or 15 minutes the players realized that falling and rolling on the ground wasn't going to help them with this ref.
I guess he can't do the final now that he's done the semi?

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  • 58.
  • At 11:43 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Michael wrote:

@Keith (#49): Well, we could just change the text a bit: 54 74 90 2010... :-)
Anyway, it was a great game last night. Fun to watch and in the end Italy deserved their win, because the were able to use the one lack of concentration of the German team (the 2nd goal was just the consequence of the German team attacking with all players in the last minute to maybe tie the game, but that for sure leaves you vulnerable to a counter attack). However, the party is not over yet. Tonight I'll cheer for France, because I would really like Zizou to end his career with a final. On Saturday for sure for Germany again. And on Sunday? On Sunday I'll cheer for the organization, the fans and everybody who was involved in this great party. And after Sunday? Oh well, Euro '08 is not that far. SO let's just continue the party for another two years... :-)

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  • 59.
  • At 11:48 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Philipp Trempenau (Berlin, Germany) wrote:

@John Russel

Funny, for 20 years I've been reading "3 World Cups & 2 World Wars" in the English yellow press. And yet, I still adore the English Team. Wonder how that happened....

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  • 60.
  • At 11:48 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Paul wrote:

I am English living in Germany for 12 years. I have enjoyed the WC and have supported England at my cities Fan Fest and have been to support Germany in the group stages. Germany have hosted the WC in great style and have shown how it should be done.
I am so pleased the many thousands of England fans came over and left again without giving the normally biased German press more reason to slate the our whole nation. My own experience and the comments before show that underneath the political correctness there is still a high level of disrespect and hostility between the peolpe of the UK and Germany. While the Germans accuse the UK tabloids of stirring this up (which is true)their own press is no better. Its actually worse because it tries much harder to seem serious and objective.
Despite my being the subject of abuse from many Germans on my home from supporting England on Saturday,I still think the WC has done more for relations between our countries and others in Europe than all the politics that comes out of Berlin/London and Brussels.
Well done Germany, England lets stop making excuses and do better next time.

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  • 61.
  • At 11:51 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Dan Smith wrote:

"Maybe that comes down to expectation, the Germans exceeded their modest ones with a semi-final appearance while Sven-Goran Eriksson's men failed to live up to their own over-inflated ones with another last-eight exit."

pardon? The media, including the BBC, have to take as much blame for over inflated expectations as the players/management.

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  • 62.
  • At 11:55 AM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • bobbylebonfire wrote:

48 Hendrik: if keith went to scotland when they were playing spain and wore an england shirt on the day..being pushed down the steps would be the least of his worries! Responsible advice please!!!

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  • 63.
  • At 12:00 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • San wrote:

To Philip about Rooneys Red card:

First of all I would have not given a red card for that cause I dont think it was on purpose, but never mind... The thing that really bothered me was Ronaldo and his show afterwards, guess thats what the most fuss is about.. I think in that game England deserved to win because with 10 men they played so much better than Portugal with 11... the whole penality shooting thing was soo unlucky... again... but all in all I was disappointed about Englands matches, before the WC I really thought England had a big chance of winning it this time, and I never expected Germany to do well, would have never thought theyd make it to semi-finals!! But when the WC started Germany played better football and I couldnt understand how bad England played! They got so many great players and potential! My main letdown of the tournament is definetly Frank Lampard! He played nothing at all like Ive seen him all season for Chelsea, definetly not his World Cup!

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  • 64.
  • At 12:00 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Sebastian wrote:

Agree with Tobias (44#) and Mike (#31). Dumb idiots and rubbish tabloid newspapers exist in every country, so why not in Germany and the UK. Looking at the majority of the comments in this blog, I must say that single bad experiences seem to be very rare.

So far, the World Cup was a great success in every respect and, indeed, the party will continue until Sunday evening, may the best team win.

Yesterday`s game was truely an example of how football should be played, no cheating, no diving, perhaps too little chances to score, but a thrilling final. In the end, it was a deserved win for Italy, congratulations.

However, we can be proud of our team. They are heading into the right direction. Jürgen Klinsmann did a great job, let`s hope he stays for another two years as Germany manager, so that we can see entertaining football again at Euro 2008. I`d rather loose again in the semi-finals with attacking football than gaining another boring 80s-style win.

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  • 65.
  • At 12:04 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Matt C wrote:

Just got in to work so can only now join the blog.

Firstly a big round of applause to both teams for an amazing display of football. Those of you who were in Fletch's blog yest will remember me saying that i thought the game would be a defensive display by Italy and that they would pinch two goals. Was I right?. But I did think Germany would get a goal so good job i didnt put a bet down. I was really impressed with every player on the pitch, especially Cannavaro, he is up there with Terry n Rio in the best defenders catagory. Grosso's goal was a great effort and the Gilardino/Del Piero link up for the second was amazing. Good effort Germany, Italy for the Cup!

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  • 66.
  • At 12:06 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • glyn charles wrote:

what a fantastic host nation, we stayed in Hamburg and have never known so many people come and chat to use ad ask us lotsof questions and share our love of football.

I had so many drinks shoved into my hand without even asking if i wanted one.

a 5.30am finish was fantastic on the evening Germany won the qtr final.

what a party , what a new load of friends. pity their party ended in the Semi's.

Fantastic people.

Glyn

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  • 67.
  • At 12:07 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Andreas wrote:

Wow! That was a game! I'm a German living in England, to be more precise in the football hotspot Liverpool. But in the recent weeks I had the impression the the hotspot was more in Germany! As my flatmate is Italian we had quite a bit of bantering between each other in the recent days preparing for the match. But congratulations to the Italian team! In the end they deserved to win. Unfortunately I missed the big party in my old hometown Dortmund - despite the German team loosing, I'm sure it was a great party in the Pott. I remember several big celebrations of Borussia Dortmund during the 90s. It's also nice to see that many people around the world have now a better idea about contemporary Germany. Here in Britain for many ordinary people this country was sort of an unknown territory. They did not necessarily have the negative image often portraid in the tabloids about Nazi-country, neither was it a romantic idealised image that many US-Americans and Japanese have about the country of the "Romantische Straße", Heidelberg and "Schloß Neuschwanstein". No... - people seem to have discovered a modern country with welcoming hosts, simply following the slogan "A time to make friends."
In terms of British-German relations I would suspect that many German cities will now become prime destinations for British stag nights and hen parties in the future. There are cheap flight connections, the beer is high quality /cheap and sometimes the weather is even better than in Britain. In some respects a decent alternative to the usual suspects Amsterdam, Paris and Barcelona. That will be much more influential in understanding each other than some student or school exchange or some initiative to reform the way Germany is portraid in history lessons in Britain.
But it's also nice to see that some stereotypes about the Germans are still true - great organisation and efficiency.
As for the rest of the tournament - after yesterdays match I guess the Italian team is the strongest. France with the magician Zidane looks impressive as well - but maybe Portugal will make it. I'm looking forward to the remaining games and I hope that the German team delivers a great game on Saturday in fight for the third position.

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  • 68.
  • At 12:11 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • San wrote:

Totally agree with Post 65! I dont think we should take notice of anything the tabloids write sometimes!

And I hope Klinsmann continues to be german coach too, I really never expected them to play that good and Im glad that this 80s football is finally behind us.. also loved for example that he took risks and took players like Odonkor! That definetly paid off! I think Odonkor played great during the whole tournament!

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  • 69.
  • At 12:12 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • engfan2121 wrote:

:( I am a true England fan, but as they were out, I was hugely supporting Germany.
I was so upset to see Germany out, but that's life isn't it? Although both teams were absolutely amazing and put on a beautiful game, Italy were the slightly better team, so well done Italians.
Germany, you show a lot of promise. Well done, see you in 2010!

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  • 70.
  • At 12:13 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Philipp Trempenau (Berlin, Germany) wrote:

@San

Yeah, Lampard was a big disappointment. But by the way, so was Ballack (from my point of view). Let's see how they team up next year at Stamford Bridge !

I think I posted it already on a blog here somewhere: English players, official and the MEDIA should not pay too much attention on WAGS, magazine covers, latest hairstyles and Pepsi commercials. Instead, the players should play like a team ! Then, I am sure, you will get that second star on your chest sometime. You certainly got the talent !!

Keep your heads up England....I'm really looking forward to meet you in 2008 !!!

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  • 71.
  • At 12:14 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Adeel wrote:

I work here in Germany, i am really impressed the way germany held the Worldcup would be remembered for years to come. Germany did better till the semi-final but wasn't lucky to go into the Finals. I would say “It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up.”, a quote by an american football coach.

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  • 72.
  • At 12:16 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Adeel wrote:

I work here in Germany, i am really impressed the way germany held the Worldcup would be remembered for years to come. Germany did better till the semi-final but wasn't lucky to go into the Finals. Finally I would say “It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up.”, a quote by an american football coach.

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  • 73.
  • At 12:17 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Adeel wrote:

I work here in Germany, i am really impressed the way germany held the Worldcup would be remembered for years to come. Germany did better till the semi-final but wasn't lucky to go into the Finals. Finally I would say “It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up.”, a quote by an american football coach.

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  • 74.
  • At 12:24 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • San wrote:

@Philipp:

Thats true with Ballack! Esp. yesterday I think he lost too many balls to easily.. I cant wait really to see what he's gonna play like in Chelsea.. I definetly think it wont be easy...

Agree about England.. they definetly need to concentrate on playing as a team, they got all the talent, really keeping my fingers crossed for Euro 2008.. hopefully without penalty shootouts ;)

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  • 75.
  • At 12:29 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Mark wrote:

I read in this forum that we should not trust tabloids and stereotype to judge German people.

Ok, I give you a fact that proves what is their idea of fair-play : yesterday in Dortmund all the supporters whistled during the whole Italian Anthem, and whenever Italians were touching the ball. This is a "weird" way of supporting your own team, this is crap! It was not just few idiots, it was 70.000 idiots representing the German mentality.

Germans, you showed again that you don't have respect for other countries/people (as the story tell us) and you deserve all worst stereotypes. Europe laugh while you cry for this defeat.

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  • 76.
  • At 12:34 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Kirk wrote:

As an English bloke who's lived out here 5 and a half years, I thought the world cup was excellent. English fans and Germans chatting to each other, just excellent. Of course there are small minorities who look to wind up rival fans, but that's the same everywhere. I'm doing my bit for German - English relations. My Girlfriend is German and she's Wunderbar!!!

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  • 77.
  • At 12:43 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • James wrote:

Why should the media take the blame for England's great expectation? If anything, the media dampened down expectation after the ordinary performance level that was demonstrated, while the players and management continued to talk up England's chances.

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  • 78.
  • At 12:59 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Antonio wrote:

erm Pete...you say that you would of liked a Latin team or the hosts in the final?

France, Portugal and Italy are all Latin teams :-)

Or did you mean Latin American? ;-)

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  • 79.
  • At 01:02 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • barnsleydave wrote:

I have a petition to FIFA to get Englands WC star increased in size every 4 years. We may only have 1 star on our shirt but it will be ever so slightly bigger than everyone elses.

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  • 80.
  • At 01:03 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Raj wrote:

I can't understand why everyone is saying its the best Semi ever. The first half was poor. I think people were surprised that it wasn't played with fear that' all

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  • 81.
  • At 01:04 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Berliner wrote:

Sorry for my bad english. I would like to comment the posts of Michael (#11) and Dadooronronroninho (#13). They talk about a change. They are saying that Klinsmann changed whole Germany, which is wrong IMO. He only changed the style of our team. He made them strong and he gave them team spirit. He changed the german football, which is a great thing, of course!
If Jürgen Klinsmann would have changed the spirit of all Germans, the party would have began later during the tournament. But Germany backed them up straight away. The Party started even days before our team played the first match. (SkyArena in Frankfurt and the opening of the Fan Fest in Berlin for example!)
We were waiting for this World Cup! There is a whole new generation of Germans now. And this generation finally wanted to present themselfs as friendly and open minded people. They are citizens of the world now. They celebrate for their home, but also with their friends from all the other countries.
I think Germany changed years before. Germany can celebrate. The Loveparade had one and a half million celebrating people at the end of the 90s! We had similar parades in many other german cities aswell.
The era of Schröder changed Germany aswell. After 16 years old, boring Helmut Kohl, Schröder gave us a new feeling aswell. The same can be said about Merkel, I guess. Kohl's 16 years were just way to long.
Maybe we had not that much to celebrate since 1989, but there are always events in Germany, which can't be destroyed by the moaning media! I'm glad that the german celebrating fans didn't give the media the chance to moan about the World Cup in our country.

I just hope that our new friends will come back, cause our country is also very nice and friendly, if there is no international sport event in our country.

Greetings from Berlin

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  • 82.
  • At 01:12 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Greg wrote:

Being German, I can easily admit Italy was slightly better and deserved the victory in the end. Two late goals are a bitter pill to swallow, but that's football. And hell, the Italian defence was superb making their box a fortress.

Well done Italy and good luck on Sunday.

Our side is still very young and unexperienced with its best years yet to come. I'm very proud having seen them progress this far, it's like a modern fairy tale.

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  • 83.
  • At 01:14 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Armando wrote:

@John ,
"At least we only have media writing that, not Prime Ministers."

Thanks for proving my point about the constant recourse to generic insults and stereotypes by "Der Spiegel, Bild and other losers". By the way I didn't expect Spiegel or Bild to answer my post...

So, how does it feel to be owned by "greasy parasites" that also have had lousy Prime Ministers ? :)

Seriously. All the evidence notwithstanding, I still refuse to believe that the majority of the German people is represented by third rate tabloids and sore losers - my German friends surely aren't anything like that. Of course there is always a minority that never misses a chance to advertise their shallowness and lack of style, but if this is what they really want then more power to them...

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  • 84.
  • At 01:17 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Die Hard wrote:

Its been 4 days and yet we still have people whinging about England. Who cares? They are out! They didnt play well enough to be mentioned at this stage of The World Cup, as you whingers can see all the die hard German and Italy fans are congratulating eachother on a remarkle performance from both Countries, that is the focus here, all you whingers OUT

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  • 85.
  • At 01:19 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Tom wrote:

Fantastic game!

One of the best games of the tournament, very flowing and open football with few stoppages. But don't you think the ref deserves some credit for that?

Some people have commented that it was great because there was none of the diving and cheating that we have seen so much of in previous games. But I think there WAS still too much diving - well not so much diving, but rolling around like little girls trying to milk a foul. So pathetic! Makes you want to turn off the tv.

But the ref mostly just let it go! BRILLIANT! Full credit to the teams for playing amazing football, but I give just as much credit to the ref. Hardly any cards or stoppages, and mostly ignored the cheating dives.

Let's keep it that way. Ref you were a legend. Let's keep diving out of the game!

Here's hoping for a final the same.

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  • 86.
  • At 01:28 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Felix wrote:

Mark,

the whistleing was the first I ever noticed from german audiences.
We are NOT like that.
Many people had a lot of aggressions against Italy because of what happened in the days before.
It wouldn't have been like that (the whistleing) against Portugal or France or Ukraine or any other team,
I am 100% sure about this.

Just bad luck that all our aggressions had to come out on that day cos they were so fresh...

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  • 87.
  • At 01:31 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • mediawhore wrote:

I'm an English woman who's been living in Berlin for 5 and a half years. Having looked through this thread (after recovering from a commiseration drinks-inspired hangover) I'm really ashamed that there seem to be so many English people living in Germany who think it's their duty to slag off the Germans. If you don't like it here, you know where you can go.

I was very sad for the German team that they lost yesterday but as most people here have pointed out Italy played better in the end. I think the Germans were already thinking about a penalty shoot-out before they'd finshed extra time.

And the other thing I wanted to say is, I don't know about the rest of Germany, but Berlin has been a very cool place to experience the world cup with not a HINT of trouble. I was in a bar watching Germany's quarter-final match with a friend in an England shirt and he was welcomed with open arms (which actually came as a surprise to him, because I don't think a German fan would get that reaction in a lot of places in England).

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  • 88.
  • At 01:33 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Christoph Stappert wrote:

As a German fan, I'm obviously a bit sad. I would have loved to see Klinsmann, whom I rate very highly, and his boys do it. Alas, it was not to be.

That said, I think there are many positive things to take away from this World Cup. We had a young, exciting team who played their hearts out, we showed more attacking and more attractive football than Germany is traditionally known for, and overall I guess we presented ourselves well as the team of the host nation. The whole World Cup has been a great experience and a party to remember for everyone. After a day of pause and consolation, that party will go on, I have no doubt about it. We still have some great games to watch, everybody is in a good mood, and we're happy and thrilled to have fans from all around the world as our guests.

Congratulations to Italy, they were simply better on the day. It was an epic match between two magnificent teams, one that will be remembered for a long time. In the end, your experience and coolness won the day. A deserved victory.

I wouldn't listen to the garbage some of the German papers used to spout - most of us love Italy and the Italian people, actually. I wish you best of luck for the finals.

To Klinsmann and the lads, thank you, you played yourselves into our hearts. Now defeated, but unashamed. Good show, good sportsmanship, and once again all the pundits and experts proven wrong. You never write off the Germans - still the proverbial, gritty "tournament team". We can't wait to see you and cheer you on once more in the "little finals".

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  • 89.
  • At 01:34 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Francesco wrote:

To sausage roll:

I haven't seen diving, I haven't seen acting, I haven't seen anything of the sort. I saw a honest football match played a t a furious pace for 120 minutes.
These stereotypes are good for bild or the sun or rubbish papers like that.
Too bad England is not in anymore to show us how to play....

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  • 90.
  • At 01:39 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • chris wrote:

to clarify; I am fully aware that you mustn´t stereotype, the english press are no angels and the majority of German fans are a well meaning bunch. In fact, whenever I´m in England I never stop singing Germany´s praises. However, there is a huge difference between rags like the sun/bild printing nonsense no one takes seriously and the more serious (spiegel/sat 1) press overstepping the mark just because they´re getting caught up in mass hysteria and forgetting their obligation to neutrality. I love this country and have many friends and a german partner. But all I wanted to stress was that its in losing that people show their true colours and as a half Italian (mum´s side) I found the abuse I heard/recieved last night to be a step to far after the press build up that was wholly distasteful. I´m not tarring everyone with the same brush and didn´t mean to cause offence. But I don´t think one should be all too proud of the events of the last few days and see no reason why I can´t express my disappointment in what I have seen.

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  • 91.
  • At 01:44 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Yuda wrote:

Hey, I think the world can forget about racism if we have more regular international sports like these (World cup, Olympics, like we already have). I think racism may exist to some people who have not travelled abroad or see their world atlas or encyclopedia to see how wonderful the world we have. I am Asians, and I don't know why I have been of German fans for 16 years now (since 1990 when I was 10). Of course I was also like to see the English team played but too many of my friends were supporting them (because we play Playstation game as well), so I just chose a country that is similar which is Germany...:) But unfortunately, neither Japan nor Korea did go through 2nd round, but...all good...everyone is happy...It was a great World Cup 2006, Thank you Germany...

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  • 92.
  • At 01:48 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Yuda wrote:

Germany deserved its well played and reputation throughout this tournament. I was very pleased to see they have displayed a whole new era of German attacking football under Klisnmann as a striker in his golden era. The German was even trying to square the score until Italy did the counter attack and made it 2-0 in the end. The loss to Italy at the very end was really a blow to all German fans around the world, BUT this could be the beginning of the new attacking German team for the world cup ahead. GOOD LUCK GERMANY FOR THE WORLD CUPS AHEAD...

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  • 93.
  • At 01:54 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • chris wrote:

to clarify; I am fully aware that you mustn´t stereotype, the english press are no angels and the majority of German fans are a well meaning bunch. In fact, whenever I´m in England I never stop singing Germany´s praises. However, there is a huge difference between rags like the sun/bild printing nonsense no one takes seriously and the more serious (spiegel/sat 1) press overstepping the mark just because they´re getting caught up in mass hysteria and forgetting their obligation to neutrality. I love this country and have many friends and a german partner. But all I wanted to stress was that its in losing that people show their true colours and as a half Italian (mum´s side) I found the abuse I heard/recieved last night to be a step to far after the press build up that was wholly distasteful. I´m not tarring everyone with the same brush and didn´t mean to cause offence. But I don´t think one should be all too proud of the events of the last few days and see no reason why I can´t express my disappointment in what I have seen.

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  • 94.
  • At 01:58 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Doc M. wrote:

Of course there were strong feeelings before yesterdays match. But they were based on what happened the days before with frings and the italian media, but not on fundamental anti-italian views. Losing the game in the very last minute of overtime, made many people, including me, yell and swear and say things, that an Italian might consider quite impolite. I think, that it was quite the state some of you were in after losing on pens against Portugal. But having slept a night I can only confirm what I posted earlier this day. Well done, Italy!

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  • 95.
  • At 02:13 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • dan wrote:

I'm also an English guy who's been living in Germany for a few years. Obviously I hold the country in high esteem or I wouldn't be here. But I would never go so far as to support the German football team. Ok, crap papers like the Sun have fun playing on stereotypes, but it really is so ridiculous it can't be taken seriously. Here in Germany, however, people in general talk with such arrogance and dismissiveness about "die Engländer" that I'm relieved they didn't get to the final. Even the football commentators on TV basically criticised the English team incessantly during every game. Granted they didn't play well, but neither did many other teams and they escaped the same treatment. Thank God Germany went out in a bitter way yesterday, England having suffered the same fate at the hands of the Germans twice in recent history. And did they lose with grace - not sure, but I heard more than one shout of "Scheiß-Itakas" last night.

And, one more thing, the "Wembley Tor" was a goal 'cos the linesman ****ing said it was, no matter how foolproof any (German) "scientific" investigations that set out to prove otherwise may be. And it was 40 years ago and they still like to talk about it. The War was only just over 60 years ago and we're somehow expected never to mention that.

I must add that Klinsi deserves great credit for building a genuinely good team from a bunch of average footballers (the opposite of what Sven managed to do), but I just can't forget what a terrible cheat he was as a player (Allesandro Costacurta knows what I'm talking about).

I'll get my coat...

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  • 96.
  • At 02:17 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • john maclean wrote:

I am Scottish so in no position to have any real say on the football since we will probably struggle to get back into the party in my lifetime. I am, however, just back from Berlin and was lucky to be at the Germany v Argentina game. The German nation can be proud of this tournament. The organisation was truly world class, and everyone we met was beyond helpful in the extreme.
As for the football, I think it is high time FIFA took a stand retrospectively against the cheating, screaming, diving brigade. We all see them bringing disgrace to the game, yet no action appears to be taken. I shudder to think what impact this sort of behaviour has on young kids trying to learn from the supposed best players in the world. So, lets see a minimum one game ban for each and every bout of amateur dramatics - increased to two games if the acting lead to the dismissal of an opponent.
I saw great honour in the German nation in the way they have welcomed the world - regrettably, the overpaid preeing nancy boys on the pitch seem to care more about gaining an unfair advantage than playing the beautiful game.

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  • 97.
  • At 02:26 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • AS wrote:

What a lesson in football! I'm an England fan, but will be the first to admit that the two teams on the pitch yesterday were light years ahead in talent, technical excellence, physical fitness, and intelligence. And, oh dear, I believe i need to sneak fair play into that list as well.

Well done to both teams!

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  • 98.
  • At 02:43 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • San wrote:

Just wanted to add another comment to Dan in topic number 98: Its true that unfortunately there are still many people in Germany who talk bad about England (and very true about the commentators, and I have to say I watched the WC on german channel "Premiere" and their commentators have been so bad that I didnt only watch the english game in english, what i would have done anyways but also the spanish in spanish cause even though I didnt understand much in spanish it was a lot better than those), I think there still been many positive things, for example the public viewings Germany organized especially for english fans, like they did in Cologne and also in Gelsenkirchen, within 2 days they organized a public viewing place for 300000 english fans and the mayor was there himself to greet the fans...

Oh and also at home I got an english and a german flag out on each window and so far nobody burned our house ;)

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  • 99.
  • At 02:58 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • sausage roll wrote:

RE 91 fancesco

I don't know which semi final you were watching but you must either be blind or don't know anything football. I am not denying it was a good game, it was played at a high tempo and was end to end stuff. Good technical football. what I am saying is why do they ruin it with persistantly throwing themselves 3 foot in the air then rolling around on the floor like they have been shot by a sniper, then like a miricle spring back onto their feet as soon as the whistle has been blown? If you are genuinly injured you hardly move and signal for the bench instantly, e.g. cisse, rooney at euro 2004 etc. It amazes me how they can sprint as soon as they get their next touch, which make me question the credibility of the extent of their apparent injury?
They do wear shin pads right? maybe they need to buy some better ones as obviously they are not good enough if they cant protect from a little tap?
It has nothing to do with the papers, I was not reading an article when I was watching the game, it is my personal opinion and maybe you should consider respecting that?
Just by any chance there is not an element of biast in your post is there?

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  • 100.
  • At 03:04 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • georgm wrote:

@#66: Hi Matt!
Yes, I also found out our analysis was surprisingly accurate. Good job! :-)
Being kicked out in extra time was particularly tough, but I think Italy deserved it, so congratulations Italy!
At least, in that moment I understood England's pain.

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  • 101.
  • At 03:05 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Degs wrote:

In response to those posts (36,38 and 79 for example)commenting on the non- cheating Germans. I would have liked to see Germany in the final until I saw Ballack eye up Iaquinta before elbowing him in the head, then fall to the ground clutching his own face.
How I cheered at Grosso's goal and 'Scream of Tardelli' celebration and applauded Del Piero's brilliant finish. One team deserved it in a great match - they wore blue shirts.

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  • 102.
  • At 03:06 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • andy wildman wrote:

Will someone send the English team a copy of the Germany Italy game to show them how football should be played and lets never talk of Sven again. Ever.

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  • 103.
  • At 03:09 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Anonymous wrote:

>"A time to make friends" is the World Cup >slogan and no-one can doubt the Germans, >people and football team, have done that..

German press isulted Italians by calling them "parassites", and everywhere on the net there are only insults and racial stereotipying against Italians, both from Germans and from people of other countries.
If this is the right way to make friends....

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  • 104.
  • At 03:11 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Anonymous wrote:

>"A time to make friends" is the World Cup >slogan and no-one can doubt the Germans, >people and football team, have done that..

German press isulted Italians by calling them "parassites", and everywhere on the net there are only insults and racial stereotipying against Italians, both from Germans and from people of other countries.
If this is the right way to make friends....

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  • 105.
  • At 03:18 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • sausage roll wrote:

REF 92 @ JOE

Spot on mate, its been a great world cup the only negative I can pick out is this daft and ugly side of players falling over like they are playing on ice. Its pathetic, FIFA, UEFA, and all the other regulators need to stamp this out and NOW!!!
What sort of roles models are they for the kids, its is quite interesting as I am an FA coach and an FA referee, over the past 5 years, the kids are rolling round on the floor. I have been surrounded by aggresive 12 year olds f'ing and blinding at me. Look at the sport Rugby, potentially one of the most violent sports in the world. the players have respect for the referee, because they know they can say what they want to him but its going to cost them 10m, the same should be applied to football. Teritory is a massive advantage. Being responsible for the health and saftey of these kids its very difficult to draw the line for what is a fake and who is genuinly injured. Now they did not teach themselves this did they?? where did they learn it from??? Of course the players they watch week in week out. How many kids have been watching the world cup?? I dread to think of some of the antics i may cross next season after the displays of Totti, Ronaldo, Tevev, Robben, Drogba, Henry, Torres, Deco etc. I think the best role models of the world cup must go to Korea, or Japan, who play the sport by the book, hard work and effort, unfortunatly look where this got them!!! Its sad to see potentially 3 of the biggest cheats at the last stages of the world cup!!! What does this say FIFA??

PS for all those who think this is media related, I dont believe an ounce of the crap written in any of our papers, this is from personal experience.

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  • 106.
  • At 03:31 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Alex wrote:

I played football 20 years and now I am a coach and I am still surprised by tha fact that whilst football is the most played and watched sport in the World there are so many people unable to understand it deeply.

Clear examples @79 @82 @92

Italian coaches are probably the best in the world and tactically their teams are amazing.
Mr Capello (Juventus), Mr. Ancelotti (Milan AC) or Mr Lippi are able to shape their teams to all matches and entertain football lovers. Yesterday we saw a masterpiece, aggressive Italy with a great defence and only 1 forward player turning into a very offensive team just to "kill" the Germans and avoid PK.

I saw a great game a lot of fair-play (both sides) and no acting or cheating.

Let's be fair that was great football and England should learn from those teams instead to stick to their model that is clearly a losing one.

Congratulations Germany, awesome Italy I hope you will show us another great match in the Final.

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  • 107.
  • At 03:32 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • sausage roll wrote:

RE POST 104

If you acttually too the time to read my post 79 there was no comment regarding the "non-cheating" germans. I would honestly say every team at this world cup has took a dive or tried to bend the rules. What my point was say is why do they do it so persistantly eg, at least every 5 minutes, do they struggle for fitness?? Do they need a quick break to recover?? Like i said it was counted 87 times a player fell to the floor!!!! that is just over the top, how many serious injuries was there from this........none. It was just as well there was a top quality ref who tried his best to let the game flow, or the game could have ended up like a farce. Credit due to them winning they deserved it, but the thing that always sticks in my mind when Italy play is this over the top stimulation. You play beautiful football and are a highly technical team so why do they persist on tarnishing the name of Italin football. Play to your strenths not your weaknesses.

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  • 108.
  • At 03:42 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Peter wrote:

Dear Sausage Roll @108, I am a football coach, you are the only one who saw players diving in yesterday match. And what do you mean with cheating? Who did cheat? I only saw mistakes from your collegues the refs who screwed a lot of matches with wrong decisions, excessive red cards and Diva behaviours.
The problem is not (only) in diving players is inthe fact that refs now want to be part of the show for their personal and corporative interest.

And please don't be pathetic trying to justify your theories with the example to the kids.

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  • 109.
  • At 03:51 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Nico wrote:

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  • 110.
  • At 03:55 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Marco wrote:

I didn't manage to read all the comments,but of course I read the article...
You say " Germans have been friendly and self effacing".
I just want to say this: as an Italian supporter I really DIDN'T like the way in which German press talked about Italy and italian football.
They say that Italy has won some matches in a "dirty way but they're used to win in dirty ways". Did you see Germany vs Argentina?
Not only. Before yesterday's semi-final a German Newspaper (The "Bild" if I'm not wrong) suggested all the Germans not to eat pizza and spaghetti (not sure they were joking)and were sure Germany would win vs Italy.
Well, they were wrong.
When Italy wins a macth, I am always sorry for the losers, but not yesterday.
Of course I do not think all the Germans are unfriendly and presumptuous but German press is indeed, and -sorry for that- I'm glad Germany is now out.
Finally, not only they have lost, but they also refuse to eat pizza. And this is the biggest mistake.
viva la pizza!

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  • 111.
  • At 03:56 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • sausage roll wrote:

RE at post 109

If you are a coach then I seriously question your credibility, if you promote that sort of play in football then the future does not look very bright. Can you honestly say on your mothers life there was no instances where you thought, that player was looking for the foul rather than playing the ball?? Eg Totti on the edge of the box?
Yes the Itlain coaches are very good tactically, but do they have to drag the great sport into disripute every decade? I agree and have had a good level of sucesess, how much of that has been down to honesty?? How much has been down to corruption?? Is it by chance that your "Great" manager Cappello has jumped off the sinking ship at Juve and is rumoured to go to Real where the italian FA cant touch him? Its not the first time scandal had hit italian football, remember Fiorentina in the 80's?? or AC Milan? this sort of stuff comes from the top and filters the way down to the bottom. The best coaches in the world???? me thinks not.

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  • 112.
  • At 03:56 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Marco wrote:

I didn't manage to read all the comments,but of course I read the article...
You say " Germans have been friendly and self effacing".
I just want to say this: as an Italian supporter I really DIDN'T like the way in which German press talked about Italy and italian football.
They say that Italy has won some matches in a "dirty way but they're used to win in dirty ways". Did you see Germany vs Argentina?
Not only. Before yesterday's semi-final a German Newspaper (The "Bild" if I'm not wrong) suggested all the Germans not to eat pizza and spaghetti (not sure they were joking)and were sure Germany would win vs Italy.
Well, they were wrong.
When Italy wins a macth, I am always sorry for the losers, but not yesterday.
Of course I do not think all the Germans are unfriendly and presumptuous but German press is indeed, and -sorry for that- I'm glad Germany is now out.
Finally, not only they have lost, but they also refuse to eat pizza. And this is the biggest mistake.
viva la pizza!

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  • 113.
  • At 03:56 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Daniel wrote:

Germany played better, but they had no luck. So the girls from italy scored to win the game.

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  • 114.
  • At 04:01 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • georgm wrote:

Just wanted to give you guys the link to the satirical "Spiegel" article about Italian football mentioned here a few times. It's a blog entry with a copy of the article (only in German though, with some Italian references; the original article was taken off the web). An English-language comment you can find here. I think the article is really disrespectful and over the top. At least the "Spiegel" apologised for it.

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  • 115.
  • At 04:14 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Marco wrote:

I didn't manage to read all the comments,but of course I read the article...
You say " Germans have been friendly and self effacing".
I just want to say this: as an Italian supporter I really DIDN'T like the way in which German press talked about Italy and italian football.
They say that Italy has won some matches in a "dirty way but they're used to win in dirty ways". Did you see Germany vs Argentina?
Not only. Before yesterday's semi-final a German Newspaper (The "Bild" if I'm not wrong) suggested all the Germans not to eat pizza and spaghetti (not sure they were joking)and were sure Germany would win vs Italy.
Well, they were wrong.
When Italy wins a macth, I am always sorry for the losers, but not yesterday.
Of course I do not think all the Germans are unfriendly and presumptuous but German press is indeed, and -sorry for that- I'm glad Germany is now out.
Finally, not only they have lost, but they also refuse to eat pizza. And this is the biggest mistake.
viva la pizza!

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  • 116.
  • At 04:22 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • @ John Russel wrote:

My gosh, which German newspapers do you read? You could expect from a well-educated lad (you are, aren't you?) that he reads more sophisticated and objective newspapers. There's no difference between reading "Bild" or "The Sun" - the same clientele - people lacking a good education.

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  • 117.
  • At 04:34 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • sausage roll wrote:

re 111 @ peter

This is exacley the reason why mistakes are made, we dont know if they are serious or not. After all everybody is human and it is next to impossible to see every detail of a match, have you ever tried reffing a game?? I honestly say I make mistakes in every game, but what do you expect when coaches promote cheating to gain a little advantage, the game is no longer played by gentlemen, the concept of sportsmanship is out the window and replaced by gamesmanship. Peter I am a bit miffed how you seem to think I do it for personal benifit, I dont have people rushing to sponsor me to ref games I get expenses of £15 and you seem to forget with out a ref you cant have a game. All I am saying is its time to give respect to the ref rather than these huge money spinning egos. We get abuse hurled at us no matter what the decision. You also seem to forget I am a coach of a proffesional youth team (Nottingham County) so I can see both sides of the coin. It is also not just my opinion but also with many of my colleges, I can assure you that it is a matter being considered nationally by many parties, (being part of the english FA youth development committe)

You should maybe learn some respect for the game and peoples "pathetic" (as you phrase it) opinions, the main part of development is to consider others views, only this way progress will be made. I suggest maybe you should look at a video of the game in close detail and see how much sitmulation there was I will start a couple off for you, Pirlo, Klosse, Gatusso, as for diving take a look at Totti on edge of the box, he knew he had lost the ball, so procceeded to throw himself on the floor. Or maybe the penalty against the aussies, yes it was 50 50 but instead of staying on his feet he chose to run a different direction to the ball, o neil was lying stationary flat on the floor, and he simply left his trailing leg behing, what the italian player did gave the ref no choice from his position, but I can also see the arguement for it was no o'neils fault

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  • 118.
  • At 04:34 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Peter wrote:

Sausage roll, you probably don't follow European football news, youare too busy with your cute little kids that deserve protection from the mean Professional player/cheaters.

FYI No coach or player is involved in the Italian football scandal.

The scandal is about some Team Managers (not trainers, mainly Juventus') who built a system in order to always have friendly refs assigned to their important matches.

The scandal involves your category (referees), not mine and not Mr Capello. Capello left because he does not wan to play in second division with Juventus, and he likes real Madrid money.

I believe that the reality is that you don't like Italy and you are mad because they reached the final.

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  • 119.
  • At 04:37 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Joseph from Malta wrote:

I can't understand all this nonsensical talk about "diving & cheating" in yesterday's semi-final.....both Germany & Italy set an example of fair play without needless argumenting with the ref.
I am positive that the ref might have made some small mistakes during the game, but on the whole he controlled it admirably, & the 2 teams' willngness NOT to dive/cheat/etc; but instead to adhere to fair play was an example to the Football world.

Congrats to Italy & Germany for giving us a thrilling spectacle of sport as wellas sportsmanship.

Germany: you were incredible hosts, thanks for being so hospitable.....a great WC!

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  • 120.
  • At 04:44 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Juergen wrote:

To Keith:

I'm sorry, that you made some bad experience. But I highly doubt that this had something to do with football.

I guess you hit some frustrated young, dumb as a post, idiots who have no other way to express their frustration than by bullying other people. You can find those everywhere and there isn't much you can do about it.

You should feel sorry for them, because they are likely some malicious, frustrated, mentally underperforming suckers, who are likely turn into unemployd frustrated suckers. Most likely life will get them what they deserve.

So just walk away and smile, albeit you should do that more inwardly. Of course it also wouldn't be a wise course of action to tell them that ;-)

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  • 121.
  • At 04:45 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • georgm wrote:

Why are you not publishing my link to the Spiegel article so everyone can get a clear picture? I thought the BBC was about free press?

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  • 122.
  • At 04:49 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • John Russel answer to @118 wrote:

Answering to 118

Der Spiegel, Zeit and Bild with different degrees of stupidity they all kept the same line.

They called the Italians parasites or "Pizza delivers". Have you seen the picture with Italians players used as pizza topping and with the title Pizza Arrivederci?

Tha happened apparently because were mad because Italian media showed that Frings punched the Argentinian player.

But what's wrong with that,it was true!
I live in Italy and I remember that at Euro 2002 Totti was disqualified for 3 matches because a Danish TV showed some images after the match with Totti spitting at Poulsen.
Italians did not complain they just accepted and all the Italian newspapers attacked Totti for the disgusting behaviour.

Now, why German were so aggressive against Italian? They should only blame Frings for his gesture, not the italian media for showing it.

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  • 123.
  • At 04:51 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • John Russel answer to @118 wrote:

Answering to 118

Der Spiegel, Zeit and Bild with different degrees of stupidity they all kept the same line.

They called the Italians parasites or "Pizza delivers". Have you seen the picture with Italians players used as pizza topping and with the title Pizza Arrivederci?

Tha happened apparently because they were mad because Italian media showed that Frings punched the Argentinian player.

But what's wrong with that,it was true!
I live in Italy and I remember that at Euro 2002 Totti was disqualified for 3 matches because a Danish TV showed some images after the match with Totti spitting at Poulsen.
Italians did not complain they just accepted and all the Italian newspapers attacked Totti for the disgusting behaviour.

Now, why German were so aggressive against Italians? They should only blame Frings for his gesture, not the Italians media for showing it.

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  • 124.
  • At 05:00 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • pete wrote:

antonio post 80.....yes i was referring to either argentina or brazil not only for their skills but for the colour and fun they would have brought to the city of berlin.

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  • 125.
  • At 05:02 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • sausage roll wrote:

Re Peter 118

You could not be further than the truth. I totally respect Italy for their football, their passion, their devotion, their tactical knowledge and more importantly their incredible and succesful football history. The players they have had that has lifted the game of football to be the most globally renound sport. However they also bring many bad aspect to the game, e.g stimulation, diving, corruption, scandal, foul play.
I wish them the best of luck in the final and I hold my hands up in admiration for getting so far under what must be such difficult circumstances. However I think you are being very nieve if you think it is just up to the top level of football, often in these circumstances the truth is hidden and I feel what has been discovered is only scratching the surface. Is buffon not linked with being the centre to a huge betting syndicate too? Unfortunatly yes my only knowlegde of the situation is based on what I read in EUROPEAN PAPERS and the INTERNET (which I belive is global) which I accept can also be corruptand the feedback from my fellow proffesionals at the FA. However why had cappello jumped ship before the verdict has been drawn? Juve have not been relegated yet. If he has such passion why not stay and fight for his beloved club? Why not stay in Italy to carry on his carrer. I am not mad in the slightest at italy for reaching the final and I dont hate them, as once again you jump to your own conclusions. I dont understand why you have to be derogatory regarding the kids I coach? I am simply arguing

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  • 126.
  • At 05:03 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • San wrote:

To Post 111, 113 Marco:

I know the "Bild" went over the top but we're used to that.. also before the game on their webpage they had a headline with "Thats how you gonna cry tonight" and showed all other team players who went out crying and that, below the belt.. oh and I could never stop eating pizza and spaghetti ;) lol italians definetly have the nicest food ;)

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  • 127.
  • At 05:08 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Cinthia wrote:

I am very disappointed in the way Germans are being portrayed. You say they are being rasicst but your comments are right up there. I as a german-american (Black German), have had my share of rasicim from Italiens, Germans, Americans and the lovely English. I am very pround of the efforts my team has made. There will always be idiots in life and the free press. We all know this from the English and Italien papers. It was Germanys turn this time. I disagree greatly with all of what happened. But I do believe the World is still a loving guest. And for those who don't like it, why are you still here. I guess there must be a few things you do like. But like Henry (France)said: football displays everything that happens in the world good and bad. Instead of seeing the game for as amazing as it was it turns in to a rasicst debate. Germany is not perfect and we as Germans admit to that but some other countries and their fellow man should consider the same. I love Germany and I am disappointed and ashamed of the rasicst idiots we have but I know for a fact it is a minority. But as I expierenced in white countries before who believe they are superior it will always be a minorty. Because I believe as europeans we have some common sense and should celebrate what the World Cup stands for and not what the press or rascists want it to be. There will always be idiots.

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  • 128.
  • At 05:16 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Andreas wrote:

Ciao Marco,

well, being German I can accept our defeat against you - as far as just the match was concerned. In that match you were the better team. But you played FIFA against us and got Frings to be banned for absolutely no reason. He was trying to get between some Argentine and some team mate.

You are great people, you're very welcome in our country - both as residents as well as visitors. We love your food and wouldn't know what to do without it.

But for tonight as well as Sunday: Allez Les Bleus!!

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  • 129.
  • At 05:29 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • sausage roll wrote:

re 125 san

I dont understand what that has got to do with me?

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  • 130.
  • At 05:30 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Lars wrote:

So i think now its time to give my comment to what i read here. Im a german born and living in Dortmund.

The problem with sterotypes is a social problem in all countries around the world.

I am now 30 and in this time i learned a simple lesson. This lesson i put in a phrase and this phrase could be used in every country.

"How simple and beautiful the life could be, when you think only in drawer and templates!"

For me it was very fine to see that the most people learned this lesson at this WC.

My please to all of you, tell this lesson all other peoples for a better world and for your own peaceful heart.

A peaceful and a proud greeting to all of you from Lars, born as a child after WWII in a new german country.

p.s.
Sorry for my bad english.

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  • 131.
  • At 05:40 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • San wrote:

@sausageroll

sorry, had the wrong number :) so had nothing to do with you

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  • 132.
  • At 05:52 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • John wrote:

Germany was over confident. They even printed a news paper article saying good-bye Italy!!! before the game.

A bunch of arrogant players, who never risked very much while on the pitch and wanted to finish with penalties again.

The team was never up to par to winning a world championship. I feel sorry for the Germans, but this team got what it deserved.

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  • 133.
  • At 06:03 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • sausage roll wrote:

lol @ san

Peter please check out

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/stats/detail.html?section=tdc&sort=FS

and look at the fouls suffered colum, now I suppose that is coincidence too?

It is no supprise to me that Italy are top, and argentina are 3rd even though they have only played 4 games.
out of all the team that have played 5 times look at who is bottom. can you begin to see a bit of a trend here?

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  • 134.
  • At 06:13 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Anonymous wrote:

@sausage roll

Dude if you understand the difference I have not been derogatory with your kids, I've been sarcastic with you.

I have nothing against kids training, I was only commenting that you used the kids to justify your thesis about diving and cheating.

If you really are a man of sport you cannot associate Italian football to cheaters and divers or say silly things like "they also bring many bad aspect to the game, e.g stimulation, diving, corruption, scandal, foul play."

Or saying things like "Is buffon not linked with being the centre to a huge betting syndicate too?"

No he is not.

You just don't know Italian football, I've been living here for years and I know what I'm talking about and I'm proud of being associated to the Italian FA.
FYI they say (nothing proved yet) that Buffon used to bet on football matches (not Italian league). When italian FA prohibited any betting for their associated he stopped doing it (officially). That is what we know til now, you probably like to think that he is not honest just because you read a tabloid.

Anyway just to close this thread take 10 minutes to read all the comments in this forum, I believe that nobody agrees with you and your provocative first post has been deleted from the forum. Think about it.

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  • 135.
  • At 06:30 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Rolf wrote:

Hei folks, are we talking about sports or politics? ;-)

I'm European, but the "Germs" are my team! ;-)

SPORTS: What a game! What an Italian team, I really expected bloody catenacio, but they perfectly adopted their tactics to the German game. BRAVO ITALIA!

IMHO Frings was really missing and could have been the winning factor for Germany, since Kehl wasn't an apropriate replacement in offensive actions.


POLITICS: It's interesting to see that nothing affect public opinions more than wars!

And "football is war in short pants" (Shakira 2002)

concerning
ITALIAN-GERMAN-RELATIONS:

Germans basically adore Italian culture and there are plenty of Italians living here. This resulting in plenty of family relations. Italian medias insisting to ban Frings made me angry too. It reminded me of how sportsmanlike Ahn Jung-Hwan was treated after shooting Italy out of the WC2002.
German yellow press reacted on the same level, the Spiegel article was only a Fawlty-Towers kind of satire.

Interestingly the press today doesnt speak about these Frings-Things. Luckily everybody seems to be to afraid to damage the good relations. I think Germans are happy enough Italy has got rid of this "Duce reloaded" Berlusconi and Bush & Blaire have lost one more allied in their blood-for-oil campaign in Irak.

Just one anecdote: I was once in a language school in Rimini (Northern Italy). Some Italians I met (who have never been in Germany) insisted that Italians have a bad reputation in Germany. After I strictly denied it, I was stunned to hear: "It must be very bad, you only know all this poor, dirty immigrants from southern Italy ..."

Believe me Italian-Italian relations is what we should worry about... ;-)

concerning
ANGLO-GERMAN-RELATIONS:

Im sorry to say, but I don't believe things will really change, we will soon return to usual bashing. And Germans will continue to moan and ask what they did wrong. Like in Fawlty Towers "Don't mention the war"... sigh!

I know mixed couples living in Britain who do not dare to babtise their children with german forenames. The only thing that could ever convince me of a lasting change in public opinion is the Prince of Wales changing his legal name back to "Charles Battenberg".

On the other side the majority of Germans don't even know a word corresponding to "Krauts" or "Huns". (BTW: English friends lately told me there is one "Inselaffen" :)

But this is only part of a general British ignorance toward Europe. English is the language of globalisation, their is no big interest to get acquainted with any neighbors culture or language. I've already been in French, Spanisch, Italian and Portuguese language schools, and believe me, I even met more multilingual Americans then Brits.

I personally was euphorised by this German Team like never before, but I was sceptical about some kind of overboarding patriotism around me.

To say this in the right context, I'm also sceptical to hear thousands of English fans singing "Britania rules the waves".
Do you lads learn anything about empirial drugdealing in Opium Wars or concentration camps in Boer Wars in school? Is the British Empire only a glorious past that ended between winning the War 45 and WC 66?

Maybe it's typical German to be a party pooper about this patriotic joy...

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  • 136.
  • At 06:52 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • peter wrote:

@sausage

what do you suggest with your stats?

First: you should divide by the number of played match otherwise is wrong
Second: this stats are meaningless, Germany suffered almost the same number of fouls (difference is 1.5 per match), and if you listen to your dear stereotypes they are very correct players.
So Einstein, explain us how is it possible that the bad Italians have the same stats as the good Germans?
Or maybe Italian infected everybody with the diving virus?

third: if you look at the very low number of fouls committed you will find that Italy is one of the "cleanest" team in the WC (with Brasil). How do you explain this?


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  • 137.
  • At 07:01 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Fabio wrote:

A fantastic match to watch. Wonderful example of Fair Play among the players. Both teams have played with respect and gave all they could. Unfortunately only one could win, otherwise it would have been the perfect final match.
The unique, Great shame was the whisstling of the Italian National Anthem.

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  • 138.
  • At 07:09 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Fabio wrote:

Pizzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, I love my Pizzaaaa todayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy !!!

No, wurstel , no wurstel ... Nein Danke

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  • 139.
  • At 07:24 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Mustafa wrote:

Germany has played very well before the quarter final. Then they played with Argentina - a genuine strong team. Then they played with Italy and they lost. It means that although Germans have improved a lot, they have not been strong enough to get past these teams. As a German Football supporter, I thank them for their spirit and run in the fields. Way to go. It is also true that Italy won, however, the foul on Podolski - did it happen inside the box or out side the box? TV replay showed inside the box. Doesn't FIFA need to consider employing TV replay? I feel Argentina, France, Germany and Italy deserved to play in the semi-finals. One team is missing. I am happy that two over-rated teams are out - Brazil and England. Brazil had individual star powers without any team effort. England appeared to be a lion in the papers. They were boring. Anyway, Germany did not win since 1990 so we have to wait till another world cup begins. Hence, yesterday's loss was a blow. Till then probably we are going to watch a wonderful final which does not have any Brazil/Argentina.

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  • 140.
  • At 07:47 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Andreas wrote:

During Euro 96 the English always whistled during the playings of the German national anthem. I remember how hostile I found that and how much it hurt.

I was shocked when I heard Dortmund doing the same to the Italians last night - inspite of the fact that their unfair and sneaky behavior banned Frings from playing.

As a German I would like to apologize to the Italians. This behaviour was way below our norm and was inacceptable.

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  • 141.
  • At 08:04 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Tarun wrote:

Germany and Italy both played superb football. Both teams were giving their everything to this game. In the end, Azzurri were able to break the deadlock with their increasing persistence. It was a great match and sets an example of true sportsmanspirit and fair play.

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  • 142.
  • At 09:12 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Andrea wrote:

I am a German but living abroad and my heart broke yesterday. I will not say they "deserved" to win. Both teams equally deserved to win. They both made it to the semi-final and played an even match with both sides missing huge scoring opportunities. It is a game after all but I will admit it got to me that when Italy scored and the small group of fans where I was watching suddenly came alive after a match of virtual silence. Where was their support up until that moment? There was not a single clap, yell or shout until then. So I asked "where were you until now?" and my question was met with blank stares. It was rather odd to see no support for their own team in such a big match.

The thing with the English being out of control...I watched with several Englishmen as England was beaten. Nothing happened and they all took it on the chin. I even had 2 Englishman consoling me, putting their arms around me and wiping away my tears after yesterday's loss, making sure I did not wipe off the German flags I had painted on my cheeks. They told me to be proud and after all it is just a game. On the other hand, the Italian fans all made hand gestures and smirked and laughed at me. Who are the better sports?

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  • 143.
  • At 09:26 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • rudy wrote:

"... we are just the sausage-delivery-mans, sausage-delivery- mans, sausage-delivery-mans ..." :-)

Thanks to both teams and a great WC so far. I (German, moreover european) are meanwhile somehow happy that our team lost in this great match against Italy even if the first hours after last night were a little bit sad. If the rest of the world has just received a little better impression of the average german (I don't mean the 10+x% - x LE 10 -> estimated - ignorants, I mean thos who believe what the BILD-writes) this was a fair price.
I am looking forward to 2008 and 2010 and - to the just started France-Portugal.

Best regards,
Rudy

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  • 144.
  • At 09:47 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Michael wrote:

To Marco and all the others who read Bild. WE DON'T! This is the most stupid German tabloid ever, so just because they write crap, it doesn't mean we don't like Italians, OK. Bild is not even worth wiping your a$$ with it and if you actually believe what they write, then you do exactly what they want. I was at my favorite Italian bar last night after the game to congratulate the owner and I wasn't the only German there. In Munich German and Italian fans di an auto corso together. How can all that be if Germans despise the Italians as much as you think? Tabloids live from stereotypes, because that's the only thing they can make their stupid headlines with. I'm not sure about Italian tabloids, but The Sun in England is the same and in other countries you have them as well. As long as you don't believe every word they write, everything is OK. And if you read the posts here, you'll realize that not all Germans are against Italians and not all English are against Germans and so on. How about we all just boycott these stupid tabloids and ask people to not buy them. Bild is already loosing customers day by day. Hopefully they are bancrupt soon...
Oh and BTW, no matter which paper would tell me so, I WILL NEVER STOP EATING PASTA AND PIZZA! EVER! Just tastes too good! And I hope I'm still allowed to travel to Italy whenever I want, because I love it there.
Finally a note to the English fans: Don't you like how Ronaldo is booed at for all his acting? And the referee didn't fall for his dive to get a PK.

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  • 145.
  • At 10:25 PM on 05 Jul 2006,
  • Michael wrote:

Another note to all the Germans: THE ITALIANS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FRINGS INCIDENT! FIFA clearly stated, that they saw it on ZDF (German TV) first. Guess who said the Italians were behind it... right, it was BILD again. So you fall to this stupid tabloid AGAIN. Or to say it with Forrest Gumb: Stupid is as stupid does...

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  • 146.
  • At 12:04 AM on 06 Jul 2006,
  • Andreas wrote:

Well, so now we know:

Germany will play Portugal in the final on Saturday.

And France will play Italy on Sunday's match, what ever that's about.

The party in Stuttgart will be much, much bigger than the one in Berlin...

Berlin, Berlin, wir pfeifen auf Berlin (Berlin, Berlin, who cares about Berlin)

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  • 147.
  • At 10:42 AM on 06 Jul 2006,
  • sausage roll wrote:

RE PETER

Did you watch the other semi final last night? Now is suppose your going to tell me there was no diving or stimulation in that game either? The only reason Portugal have got so far is the manner in which they play the game which appauls me. They did well in the groups playing against no hopers but as soon as they come up against quality opponents they have to resort to these tactics, as they know ability wise they are not good enough to beat them, first of all the dirtiest world cup game ever against the dutch, secondly the childish mind games or ronaldo against England, and finally (thank god) numerous falling over against France. I would like to praise the referee, on a fine display, he kept his cool throught the game, the only negative was that numerous portugal players should have been booked for blatent dives. They know they have a good defence and a good midfield but are also well aware they are not dangerous one bit up front, so to beat a quality team they have to try and con the ref into giving freekicks/penalties. It was good to see ronaldo getting a reception for 90 minutes that he deserved. The fact they could not take defeat graciously highlights their attitude. Mr Scolari was going mental at the referee after the game. Then in the press confence after he was very chilled. Obviously he mush have looked at the highlights before going into the press confrence. As for Mr Mronaldo complaining about the ref he should think himself very lucky for staying on the pitch.

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  • 148.
  • At 02:28 PM on 06 Jul 2006,
  • peter wrote:

to Sausege roll

Dude, do you understand written English, or uou just dont read other people commets? What everybody was saying in this forum is that Germany - Italy was a great match played with fair play and no cheating or diving.
German people writing comments have been very good accepting the defeat and they didnt blame Italians for any wrong behaviour.

You, "Mr. Englishman" are the only one who says the contrary.
How is possible that you can't see the difference with yesterday's match?

Portugual players dived a lot and even Thierry Henry in the penalty dived as soon as he felt the contact. He didnt fall because of the portuguese action.
But that was a foul, so a penalty.

On the other hand Cristiano Ronaldo is a very dirty player (like Ballack, like Nedved) and yesterday he dived a lot in a blatant way with no contact.
A good ref should be able to see that and to book him at the first attempt.

My point is that I agree that there are a lot of divers and it is not a good thing, but this DIDN'T HAPPEN in GERMANY - ITALY !!!
Your comments about Italy are driven by this old stereotype (and maybe by your frustration for England performance) but no Italian player dived in the box.
Even in the famous penalty against Australia, Grosso did not dive, he just couldn't avoid the body of Neil. Was it penalty? Watching it live at normal speed I would have said "yes!". In slow motion replay , probably not.

But he didnt dive, he felt and there was a contact. Do you get the difference?

I would suggest to the parents of the kids that you train to change coach. Someone who think that the only place where the real football is played is Japan and Korea is a loser that doesn't know anything about professional football. Good Luck!

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  • 149.
  • At 06:02 PM on 06 Jul 2006,
  • Mattia wrote:

Well, if the spirit of the game was meant to be under the signs of no racism, I don't really understand why Italians have been booed from the anthem to the end. Nobody has recorded that. Not to mention the racist and vulgar comments about them being parasites, lazy and other amenities.
German arrogance deserved that kind of loss as Gods, especially football ones, don't like hubris.
In the film the Third Man (Orson wells, 1949) there is a good quote that summarizes the conflict between order, disorder and creativity:
"...In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
Ciao Ciao Germany!

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