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Guantanamo: The Reunion

Victoria Derbyshire | 08:56 UK time, Tuesday, 12 January 2010

I've been speaking to two British men who were held prisoner at Guantanamo Bay, and one of the American soldiers who kept guard over them.

Brandon Neely was a military police officer at the US detention camp where Shafiq Rasul and Ruhal Ahmed, from Tipton, were held for more than two years on suspicion of being terrorists. The pair were released without charge in 2004.

Since then, Neely has left the army, and now he's met Rasul and Ahmed to apologise for, in his words, "the hell you've been put through".

The three discuss how they got back in touch, and their thoughts on their reunion. Listen in from 10am today, or you can watch the three men being interviewed in the video player here.

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Comments

  • 1. At 10:13am on 12 Jan 2010, m lawrence wrote:

    It is a National disgrace and offends me considerably that you are giving ex Guantanamo Bay detainees air space at license fee payers expense. What have these two done to claim any rights to such national pubilicty? Another example of the BBC showing its true comlexion.

    Mike

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  • 2. At 10:45am on 12 Jan 2010, laughingmarmalade wrote:

    whats the point?

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  • 3. At 10:58am on 12 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    Didn't bother to listen. I put some music on instead (and not the pap that was being reviewed yesterday, either!).

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  • 4. At 11:02am on 12 Jan 2010, Greg Sherriff wrote:

    Vicoria please, what a mockery of a question session. No guilty verdict will be found and we hold this simply to serve the appetite of the public. Labour have dismantled this Country and have withdrawn too many promisses of Justice and Opinion for and by the Public. The voting adults have fewer rights under this Government and STILL, we are unalbe to give a vote one way or the other on our Unelected Prime Minister. Today I am embaressed to be held under control by Gordon Brown.

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  • 5. At 11:07am on 12 Jan 2010, zelda wrote:

    It's not been on yet Tempus - it's the boring Iraq enquiry. Alastair Campbell being the 'star of the show' today.

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  • 6. At 11:23am on 12 Jan 2010, zelda wrote:

    Has the ex-soldier got a book out?

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  • 7. At 11:27am on 12 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "It's not been on yet Tempus"

    Which just confirms that I'm on another station! I got the impression it had passed me by from the comments above - but thanks for the heads up; I was thinking about switching the radio on!

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  • 8. At 11:32am on 12 Jan 2010, zelda wrote:

    I switched over the minute they started talking. It's Green Day for me!

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  • 9. At 11:40am on 12 Jan 2010, deegee wrote:

    Victoria, I IMPLORE you not to be hoodwinked by these young men claiming now that they went to Afghanistan for drugs and that they are poorly educated.

    They went to Pakistan at a time of critical global tension, all focused in that area and despite inaccessibility to enter Afghanistan, they forced entry into the country. They also visited a terrorist training camp!

    This defies any logical explanation of voyeurism or extreme tourism.

    They are traitors to our country, their intention to go to Afghanistan was to fight against the coalition forces and they simply ran out of courage.

    I am horrified that they haven't been deported or even executed as traitors.

    DO NOT believe their lies, Victoria..there is not ONE plausible explanation they have given for being there

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  • 10. At 11:47am on 12 Jan 2010, U14281003 wrote:

    Great interview thank you its nice to see the truth and human touch when there is so much media and goverment propaganda regarding the guantanamo detainess

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  • 11. At 11:52am on 12 Jan 2010, laughingmarmalade wrote:

    Of course it's lies - anyone can see that

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  • 12. At 11:57am on 12 Jan 2010, neil wrote:

    Guantanamo Bay itself is diplorable in its existance,but to find our own government are complicit with the illegal imprisonment and torture of prisoners is horrendeous,these MI5 officers are guilty of war crimes and nothing less and have blatently broken the Geneva Convention.
    No wonder all these extremists hate us so much,the civilized west,were no better than animals,we illegally invade anywhere we want,we enforce a western style regime change on these countries,we illegally hold and torture "prisoners of war" without giving them chance to defend themselves,and then when anybody complains about it we label them as Islamic terrorists!
    The "west" are as bad or worse than any terrorist organization but because we label things with such words as civilized,humanitarian,democratic we think that allows us to go around the world enforcing whatever we want,on whoever we want,just as long as they dont have any nuclear weapons,then we just stay at home and complain a bit!

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  • 13. At 11:57am on 12 Jan 2010, zelda wrote:

    There are some very interesting articles on the net about this man.

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  • 14. At 12:10pm on 12 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "these young men claiming now that they went to Afghanistan for drugs"

    Why would you go to Afghanistan for drugs? The Taliban would take umbrage at such un-islamic action and wreak bloody vengeance. Also, at the time it was a bigger war-zone than now, with the Americans going in to support the Northern Alliance. Why, oh why, would anyone want to go there for reasons of tourism, if such a thing was possible?

    I think as much now as I did at the time they came back that the Tipton Three are not telling the whole story and were (amybe still are?) up to treasonous no good.

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  • 15. At 12:22pm on 12 Jan 2010, neil wrote:

    It doesnt matter if they were in Afganistan for drugs or terrorism,they could have been hatching a plan to blow up parliment,does that then give us the right to illgegally imprison them without trial and torture them?We still find Japans treatment of our captive and tortured soldiers during WW2 as diplorable,so why is it ok for us to do exactly the same to other simply because we label them as "terrorists"?

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  • 16. At 2:27pm on 12 Jan 2010, wendymann wrote:

    "It is a National disgrace and offends me considerably that you are giving ex Guantanamo Bay detainees air space at license fee payers expense. What have these two done to claim any rights to such national pubilicty? Another example of the BBC showing its true comlexion."

    the national disgrace is the illegal war, the lies and deceits, abu ghraib abuse, bagram abuse, the black hole prisons, torture and the role the media have played in supporting the lies and deceits.

    as for the detainees, the usa was offering $5000 per foreign person in either afghansitan or pakistan .. many were abducted and sold regardless of what they were doing.

    now what evidence do you have that these men were upto no good that the uk governmet does not have which will provide for a criminal case to take place.

    surely you understand the purpose of places such as guantanomo is to create the perception of guilt over and above all other considerations.

    i myself prefer the honest insight of clive stafford smith of reprieve than that of the apologist for the neo con war hawks.





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  • 17. At 2:30pm on 12 Jan 2010, Cazz wrote:

    Never felt the need to add a comment to one of your interviews till today.
    No-one really knows what makes people tick but inhumane behaviour of any sort to anyone leaves our world a lesser place.
    So I hope the interview does at least show that when people sit down in calm respectful dialogue the similarities to one another become evident.
    While the differences can be overlooked and accepted for that, just differences.
    Mohandas (Mahatma) Gandhi, who is reported to have said to Lord Irwin, a former viceroy of India: “When your country and mine shall get together on the teachings laid down by Christ in this Sermon on the Mount, we shall have solved the problems not only of our countries but those of the whole world.”
    Those values are summed up by the Golden Rule of treating others as you wish to be treated.
    This interview has shown an example of this albeit full of human imperfections.
    No doubt my comments will be viewed as unrealistic, idealistic clap trap,
    but as long as we can disagree in a non violent way then fair enough.
    On a final note as my mother would say two wrongs do not make a right!
    There's certainly many wrongs on all sides in this matter.

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  • 18. At 2:30pm on 12 Jan 2010, wendymann wrote:

    "they are traitors to our country, their intention to go to Afghanistan was to fight against the coalition forces and they simply ran out of courage."

    some might say the traitors are those who conspired to take us into wars that are illegal.

    both iraq and afghanistan are illegal.

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  • 19. At 2:54pm on 12 Jan 2010, deegee wrote:

    yet all would argue that anyone who was entering Afghanistan illegally had a pretty compelling reason to be there...especially when you consider the simple material fact they were in no way linked with neither British or the American military.

    i am sick and disgusted that my country is harbouring these traitors and treating them as some sort of victim. They deserve to be hung, drawn and quartered in public, nothing less for the as yet unknown intentions they had to harm innocent civilians.

    Until the tipton Taliban can PROVE their intentions were good to be in Afghanistan ILLEGALLY ( they can buy drugs ANYWHERE in Pakistan or even the UK) then there is no doubt whatsoever their intentions were totally evil.

    They and their sympathisers make me vomit and ashamed that my country allow them to be here.

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  • 20. At 3:08pm on 12 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    Yet the international criminal court has arraigned no-one in connection with either conflict, and Afghanistan was a NATO-led operation in support of an indigenous combatant force and has a UN-resolution mandate, as has been previously discussed with links and quotes and the whole shooting match. Which as I recall you completely ignored in favour of your own narrow, apologist view.

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  • 21. At 4:03pm on 12 Jan 2010, neil wrote:

    Deegee :-quote "Until the tipton Taliban can PROVE their intentions were good to be in Afghanistan ILLEGALLY ( they can buy drugs ANYWHERE in Pakistan or even the UK) then there is no doubt whatsoever their intentions were totally evil."
    Lock them up and throw away the key,with no trial,is that it?Sorry im a little confused,last time i looked the words were,"innocent until prooven guilty",unless your a muslim,so your guilty until you can proove your innocence?the FACT that they were released with no charges of anything being brought against somehow passes you bye,you any the kangaroo court of opinion found them guilty?so anyone thats charged with anything in this country is automatically guilty,muggers,burglers,rapists,all guilty,screw the trial,you really cant still be living in the 18th century can you?

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  • 22. At 4:13pm on 12 Jan 2010, Danek piechowiak wrote:

    I'm with Neil and Cazz on this one. I felt very moved while watching the interview of those three men, the world is a better place for their existence, unlike some of the sad and sick creatures making comments on your blog, may God forgive their hatred.

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  • 23. At 5:08pm on 12 Jan 2010, deegee wrote:

    so..what were they doing in afghanistan, why did they decide to go there in late 2001 KNOWING that war is in full swing? further more, WHY did they motivate themselves to enter Afghanistan illegally? Also, why was it only NOW they said they went there to buy drugs? Can't they buy drugs in Pakistan, one of the world's largest suppliers of illegal narcotics?

    If it looks like a rat, smells like a rat and feels like a rat...guess what....it IS a rat.

    would you still be huggy huggy kissy kissy with these barbarians if they conspired to kill on mass innocent civilians form what they did at the terrorist training camp they visited?

    The law is supposed to protect law abiding citizens and visitors..not to protect evil barbarians like the tipton taliban

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  • 24. At 9:04pm on 13 Jan 2010, b wrote:

    i am in the US. i can't view this video (says its not viewable in my area.) and i do not think it has aired in the US.

    where can i see this video? making it available to view in the US would be a public service to us. thanks.

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  • 25. At 7:31pm on 14 Jan 2010, skinningroveparker wrote:

    The American guy said he was "surprised when they spoke English and enjoyed music by Eminem"

    Not typical Englishmen are they?

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  • 26. At 8:36pm on 14 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    These two men were never chraged with any crime whatsoever. They lost two and a hlaf years of their life and endured inhumane tourture. The majority of men who have entered and been released from guantanamo bay, have never been charged and these are meant to be some of the worlds most notorious terrorists! Terry Holdbrooks, an ex military police officer, who served as a guard at Guantanamo, even converted to Islam after speaking to inmates and realising that these men are infact some of the most couteous, patient and amazing of people! He is now a faithful Muslim. Brandon has also come to his senses. Great interview Victoria. Nice to see some people give others a chance and hear them out!

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  • 27. At 11:51am on 15 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "Justice4Muslims"

    Oh dear...

    By the way, is this the new name for Islam4UK?

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  • 28. At 8:32pm on 15 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Tempus Fugit, there are men in the UK who have been on control order for many years based on "secret evidence" that doesnt even exist. They have been restricted of a normal life for no reason as have their families purely because they are Muslim. Men in Guantanamo, men in Bagram airbase who happened to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time etc etc etc and all because they are Muslim. So "Justice4Muslim" is exactly what i mean, Justice for Muslims! There is no justice for the Muslims! There is no justice for those who were deprived of a normal life by being on the control order, those who lost years at Guantanamo, Muslims like Shaker Aamer, an amazing man of amazing qualities! Hence the name Justice4Muslims. Unless of course you are of those who don't believe in justice? And u can put your mind at rest....it is not another Islam4UK!

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  • 29. At 05:30am on 16 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "Tempus Fugit, there are men in the UK who have been on control order for many years based on "secret evidence" that doesnt even exist."

    And you're evidence that their evidence doesn't exist exists where exactly...?

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  • 30. At 07:07am on 16 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/6996655/Al-Qaeda-threat-Britain-worst-in-western-world.html

    Despite reporting Britain as the worst place for al-Qaeda in the western world on air, reports are suspiciously absent (or very hard to find) on the BBC News site.

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  • 31. At 12:22pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:


    My evidence that "secret evidence" doesn't exist: In September 2009, a so-called suspected terrorist on control order known as AE due to legal reasons, had his second control order revoked by Law Lords because Alan Johnson didn't want to "reveal" the secret evidence against him in court! So he would rather see a "terrorist" off the control order when he could have revealed such "vital" evidence against him which would have kept this man on the order! How pathetic! Doesn't take a genius to work out that there was no evidence against AE otherwise it would have been revealed! Who are they kidding with this nonsensical "secret evidence"? Well not the law lords that's for sure! They told them that if this "secret evidence" is not revealed, they will revoke the control orders. And so they have. Infact, another controlee, Faraj Hassan, came off the order not so long ago too! Here’s hoping that the remaining 15 innocent men on the order also come off!

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  • 32. At 12:27pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    I agree with Neil. Nice to see there are still some people who have principals unlike this government!

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  • 33. At 12:29pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    And Wendymaan

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  • 34. At 2:22pm on 16 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    And that's evidence, is it...?

    [Rolls eyes skywards}

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  • 35. At 3:43pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Perhaps it does take a genius to work out there is no such thing as secret evidence!?! How stupid can this government get! How can you put some on a control order and not even tell them what they are supposed to have done??? It's madness!Tempus you don't even need evidence....logic should tell you it doesn't exist if they are not willing to reveal it!!!

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  • 36. At 3:45pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Plus i think i provided very good evidence to suggest secret evidence is non-existant! How about you provide me with evidence to suggest "secret evidence" DOES exist! Oh forgot.....it's sooooooo secret that no-one is allowed to see it or hear it!

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  • 37. At 4:18pm on 16 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    Logic says it's secret because to reveal it would compromise sources of intelligence. Or maybe we should splash everything about in public so that AQ can work out who they can't trust within their organisation and then do them in?

    Now THAT'S genius!

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  • 38. At 4:26pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    No my dear, to reveal it in court so that the person (who's life has been restricted) has an idea of what they have done, is not compromising sources of "intelligence" (that's if you can call it intelligence!)I call it pure stupidity! This country should be trialed for failing to comply with the geneva conventions!

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  • 39. At 4:31pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Didn't they have information from "intelligence" when they raided the house of the guys in Forest Gate at 6 in the morning with almost 300 officers??? To find............Nothing! Hang on a minute, are those boys in prison or on control order??? Course not cos they haven't done anything! Sources of Intelligence??? Don't make me laugh!

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  • 40. At 4:31pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    And still no justice.....

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  • 41. At 5:30pm on 16 Jan 2010, skinningroveparker wrote:

    It is VERY difficult trying to decide which Muslims are trying to blow us up and which ones are peaceful, personally I prefer to err on the side of caution, after all they could always return to their ethnic homeland if they find it more amenable

    The first call must always be justice4brits in England

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  • 42. At 7:04pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Does justice4brits include justice for British Muslims aswell then or do you mean justice for only WHITE brits? Is "go back to your ethnic homeland" the only answer people in this country seem to have? Very ignorant indeed! Ethic minorities have contributed immensely to this country so why should they go anywhere?! Islam is a religion which preaches amazing principals. And it is the only answer to the world's problems. The grave issues facing the world at present can only solved with the principals and laws of Islam....

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  • 43. At 7:09pm on 16 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    If you can't differentiate between "good" Muslims and "bad" Muslims, at least differentiate this....Islam and Muslims are two differnt things. "Bad" muslims does not mean Islam is a bad religion. There are bad people in every single community. Having a few bad individuals in England does not necessarily mean England is a bad country. Differentiate Islam from Muslims.

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  • 44. At 12:27pm on 17 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "my dear"

    I am most certainly not your "dear." Myabe by mothers but no-one else's. Patronise thee not.

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  • 45. At 12:39pm on 17 Jan 2010, Friston wrote:

    " Islam is a religion which preaches amazing principals. And it is the only answer to the world's problems. The grave issues facing the world at present can only solved with the principals and laws of Islam...."


    And yet most Muslim countries are in a mess with millions wanting to leave. How can that be I wonder?

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  • 46. At 1:40pm on 17 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    The presidents of "Msulim countries", are a people who hide behind the religion, practise it when it suits them and use it to get what they want! They are not a people who are upon the pure Islam and hence their countries are in turmoil. I think your statistics of "millions" of people wanting to leave, is a little exaggerated! Understand that there is no country in the entire world, which is actually upon Shariah and thus we have yet to see the effects that Islamic Law can have. Muslim presidents are far too interested in working with the west and keeping alliances with the likes of Britain and the U.S than sorting out their countries. And the west are far too interested in poking their noses in other countries, trying to "liberate" the likes of Afghanistan and Iraq! Afghanistan is by far, the greatest faliure of U.S history!!! No doubt about that!

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  • 47. At 5:12pm on 17 Jan 2010, Friston wrote:

    "I think your statistics of "millions" of people wanting to leave, is a little exaggerated! "

    I don't think so. The West is already the unwilling host of millions who have come here.

    "Understand that there is no country in the entire world, which is actually upon Shariah and thus we have yet to see the effects that Islamic Law can have."

    There are countries who claim that they operate Shariah and the results do not impress.

    "Muslim presidents are far too interested in working with the west and keeping alliances with the likes of Britain and the U.S than sorting out their countries."

    The evil West is, of course, to be blamed for the failures in Muslim countries. We all know that.

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  • 48. At 5:43pm on 17 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Go through the depths of History and you will find that the west has always been behind the cause of division! The west FUNDED the mujaheedin before they decided they did not like them anymore, the west (for years) supported sadaam Hussain and then toppled him, the west offered money to Pakistani authorities to hand them Muslim men etc etc etc etc etc! Can you please point out which COUNTRY or PRESIDENT has claimed to be upon shariah??? The west is afraid of Shariah and will do whatever it can to stop it from being implemented anywhere in the world! That's why its fighting the Taliban (a few men who live in the mountain and have barely any weapons and the greatest army on the face of this earth still cant defeat them!!!), that's why it is fighting Yemen, that's why it is fighting the Shabab in Somalia! I recommend you go and study history ...you may be surprised.....

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  • 49. At 7:50pm on 17 Jan 2010, Friston wrote:

    "Go through the depths of History and you will find that the west has always been behind the cause of division!"

    How extraordinary! Have Muslims no control over their actions?


    "Can you please point out which COUNTRY or PRESIDENT has claimed to be upon shariah???"

    Do you mean as in:

    " a spokesman for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has described senior opposition figures as ‘enemies of God’ who should be executed under Iran’s sharia law."

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  • 50. At 8:04pm on 17 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Number one: Ayatollah is NOT the president of Iran. Number two: His "spokesman" said it so we can't even say it's 100% true and number three: It's merely words! Iran's government has NOT implemented Shariah as the law of this country. They may well do though in the future! Oh that's if the West not intervene! Not likely, they're already talking about "nuclear weapons" being produced in Iran! mmmmm......dey ja vu if u ask me!

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  • 51. At 8:21pm on 17 Jan 2010, skinningroveparker wrote:

    The thing which Brits cannot understand about Muslims is that they are always involved in conflict, every country around the world where there are Muslims there is trouble. They have arrived here in droves over the past few decades fleeing all sorts of "oppression" and now they are creating the very same conditions which caused their original "oppression"

    Lets hope Britain's historic culture can withstand this unwelcome invasion AND that our politicians have the backbone to make it happen

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  • 52. At 09:07am on 18 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    ""I think your statistics of "millions" of people wanting to leave, is a little exaggerated! "

    I don't think so. The West is already the unwilling host of millions who have come here."

    Then there's the likes of Anjem Choudary, who are so keen on sharia and an islamic state but aren't so keen on it when you suggest they leave these benevolent shores to go and live in one.

    ===================================================================================
    "Number one: Ayatollah is NOT the president of Iran."

    No, but he is the "supreme leader" whom the figurehead president defers to, and is thus de facto in charge (i.e. might as well be president, in the western context of the position).

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  • 53. At 8:27pm on 18 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    More Europeans have entered the UK over the past decade so please spare me this "muslims arriving in droves" nonsense!

    Islam is the fastest growing religion in the entire world! Infact it is now the second largest religion in the world! Do you know, 34,000 Americans converted to Islam following the aftermath of 9/11? I know Cristian priests who have converted to Islam, I know rappers who have converted to Islam, I know drug addicts who have converted to Islam, I know athiests who have converted to Islam etc. Question why. Seriously dudes, this religion is mezmerizing! I have never come across anything so amazing as Islam! On a scale of 1-10, how much do you guys actually know about Islam?

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  • 54. At 09:21am on 19 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "I have never come across anything so amazing as Islam!"

    I've never come across anything as corrupt, backward and given to violence (especially in certain West African nations) as islam, personally. Mesmerise me it most certainly does not.

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  • 55. At 7:19pm on 19 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Tempus...my dear... I'm talking about the "real" Islam, not the Islam being practised incorrectly by people across the world. You cannot judge the religion by others' action. Seriously go read up on it. If the religion was so backward, corrupt and violent, it would not be the fastest growing religion in the world. Nor would thousands of people be converting into it. It wouldn't make sense. There must be an abundant of good in it for it to entice people to change their entire life and live according to it. I mean i know white, English people who have converted. They gave up the whole booze, clubbing etc so they could submit. Why would they do that?

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  • 56. At 09:33am on 20 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "Tempus...my dear... I'm talking about the "real" Islam"

    Apart from already having told you I'm no-one's "dear," least of all yours, is this the "real" islam that is the unreformed adherence to a medieval and thus out-dated text and practices or some other "real" islam that is being carefully hidden from the billion followers and the other five billion members of the Earth's population? Darling...

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  • 57. At 6:47pm on 20 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    No my dear...it's not the "medieval, out-dated" Islam. It is the Islam that 1.5 BILLION people are willing to submit too. Perhaps you should do some homework on what Islam is all about instead of watching and listening to the media! Do you watch CNN news aswell?!

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  • 58. At 6:48pm on 20 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Or are you afraid to do your homework on Islam with an open mind, incase you like what you read.....

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  • 59. At 7:58pm on 20 Jan 2010, Friston wrote:

    Be careful what you ask for. He might come across what you describe as " the Islam being practised incorrectly by people across the world" If they can't tell the difference, and there appear to be many of them, what hope for an outsider?

    On the other hand I suspect that, with so many examples of repugnant practices, people take the show for the substance and are happy to avoid the religion and its adherents. Bombings etc excepted of course.

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  • 60. At 8:04pm on 20 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    I submit to nothing - especially not a bunch of ancient fairy stories, originally written by educated men to control everyone else.

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  • 61. At 8:17pm on 20 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Who are these "educated men" who are supposed to have written "fairy tales"?

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  • 62. At 8:28pm on 20 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Friston, are you a white brit? (dont worry, there's a reason why im asking)

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  • 63. At 8:33pm on 20 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    p.s does it take soooo long for them to moderate your comments? Takes them forever with mine! Maybe they think im some sort of extremist!

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  • 64. At 11:36am on 21 Jan 2010, Friston wrote:

    Re 62

    Yes.

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  • 65. At 8:57pm on 21 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Exccellent. So please can you explain why YOU think "white brits" convert to Islam? People who may even be similar to you, why do they convert do you think?

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  • 66. At 10:18am on 22 Jan 2010, Friston wrote:

    I have no idea, I think they are misguided. But they might like to reflect on their luck that the sort of penal laws against conversion prevalent in Muslim countries do not apply here.

    And why do you think conversions also go the other way?

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  • 67. At 9:05pm on 22 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Friston, people convert to Islam because they come to the realisation that it is the truth. Humans are forever searching for a purpose, and Islam offers you the purpose of life. It is a practical religion, a way of life. I mean i know white people who converted to Islam and have now become scholors in this field! They are even more staunch in the religion than Muslims who are born into the religion! Perhaps you should speak to a White convert...

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  • 68. At 10:21am on 23 Jan 2010, Friston wrote:

    " They are even more staunch in the religion than Muslims who are born into the religion! "

    A common occurrence amongst converts of all kinds.

    As for converting and giving up bacon sandwiches? No thanks.

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  • 69. At 5:18pm on 23 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    What is your purpose in life?

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  • 70. At 8:40pm on 24 Jan 2010, good_UKCitizen wrote:

    Good heavens, I jumped from another blog to this one and contributors are not talking about the subject in hand, but have veered off to talk about religion.

    Sorry J4M, but you have got away with a statement which I find totally disagreeable and mentioned in 67 "(Islam) is the truth" - suggesting my religion is not the truth.
    As a Christian, I firmly believe that Christianity is the one true faith. Jesus Christ was our prophet, but unlike Mohammed, Jesus was the SON OF GOD, not just an ordinary man. Jesus performed miracles too. Your Mohammed did not.
    I get the impression, with respect, that Islam was founded for nomadic people and 600 years after the Christian faith had become established.
    Christians, though bounded by their ten commandments are still free to have a mind of their own. Islam, I believe, is about repression. Should a Christian choose to change religion, or just 'drop out', there are no real consequences for him/her. But should a Muslim wish to change to 'the one true faith' then he/she is severely punished.

    Religion is about one's own personal BELIEF. Neither you nor can actually PROVE that there is a God, yet we both firmly believe in one (Him). And surely, if one was to analyze 'religion' it is just a 'cultural protocol or interface' ( or set of rules ) for a communication with God.

    You claimed that 'Islam is the truth' and the chaps in the cutting room have allowed you to get away with it. I just hope that they offer me the same respect to display my slightly opposing views as a Christian.

    This is not an attack on you J4M, I just want to make a similar point from the Christian angle, believe me.

    GUKC

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  • 71. At 11:17am on 25 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "Should a Christian choose to change religion, or just 'drop out', there are no real consequences for him/her."

    There were, once upon a time. However, modern Christianity underwent a reformation, recognised progress in human endeavour and advances in civilisation, and adapted for a more modern time.

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  • 72. At 2:02pm on 25 Jan 2010, good_UKCitizen wrote:

    Once again T-F I agree with you (see 71.). We as Christians used to have words that described people who were not of our faith such as "non-believer and 'heretic' and punish those for it as if it were a crime against God and the state. Yes, we have moved on centuries since those dark ages, thank God.
    What I do find as unacceptable in this Western country is that in Islam, "Infidel" and "Khaffir" are words that 'describe' those who do not believe in the Muslim faith. These words would be vaguely equivalent to 'heretic' I suppose.
    In my opinion, both words are far more insulting than the "P" word, ( which I'm not allowed to print) as they do not insult the person as much as they insult the religion. "Infidel" is the root word for 'infidelity', of course, and like the "K" word it is not banned as far as I am aware. One asks oneself why?????????

    Please chaps in the 'cutting room' allow these comments to be printed if you believe in the principle of free-speech. It is the suppressing of commonly held views such as these that causes much resentment and frustration in people like myself, and that does little to aid racial understand and harmony in this country. It is only by expressing one's
    views that consensus can be achieved.

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  • 73. At 8:16pm on 25 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    Where do i start....

    Firstly, Jesus (peace be upon him) was NOT the son of God, he was the messenger and prophet of God. It does not befit the Majesty of God to take a son (or any partners for that matter) as God is beyond all of that and high exalted is God above all that you associate with Him.Jesus pbuh, only performed miracles with the permission and will of God. Jesus pbuh, is a special prophet and the messiah of God and has a high stauts in Islam. Muhammed (peace and blessings be upon him), did perform some miracles. However, he did not do this on the same scale as Jesus pbuh. There is a great wisdom behind that. Muhammed pbuh, was sent to mankind to teach them the religion of God. He therefore had to be as normal a person thus the people could follow him and relate to him as much as possible. Muslims try to practise his actions, abide by his sayings, imitate his amazing character etc. We try to eat like him, dress like him, act like him, speak like him etc.

    All religions are based on law and have disciplines. In life, there has to be discipline otherwise there would be chaos. Islam is a way of life and therefore there are laws that need be abided by. But God has ordained these for the sake of humanity and for the betterment of every society. Why do countries have governments? So there can be law and order. Why do school have senior management? SO there can be law and order...

    We do not change religion to suit our lifestyle as christians have done and therefore lost a lot of the pure religion. Today's bible is not theword of God. Rather it was written by St Pauls who had never met Jesus pbuh. The Quran is the word of God and was revealed to Muhammed pbuh by the angel gabriel through teh permission of God. Today's Christianity does not make sense. It is confusing and contradictory. Therefore, many christians have converted to Islam, including priests.

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  • 74. At 8:43pm on 25 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    The word qaafir.. comes from the root word qafr which in arabic, linguistically means "to cover". Qafir refers to the one who covers the message of Islam i.e the one who does not believe it, that's all. qaafir is not a derogative term, it just means non-believer. The west have hyped that word up and made it an offensive term when in reality it just means dis-believer. If one does not believe in Islam, he is a disbeliever. There is nothing derrogative about that. Why do non-Muslims get so offended when they hear the "k" word?

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  • 75. At 8:44pm on 25 Jan 2010, Justice4Muslims wrote:

    GUKC, it's ok i understand that what you said is not a personal attack on me...

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  • 76. At 09:38am on 26 Jan 2010, good_UKCitizen wrote:

    Well done M4J. You have just rewritten the Christian faith!
    Well I guess it needed clarification and adjustment after all this time by someone who is not even of that faith.
    You belittle our prophet Jesus Christ (the son of God), and have a rather distorted view of the one true faith. Who are you to say that Jesus was not the son of God?? I do find your statement very offensive. But I wont call upon my Christian "brothers and sisters" throughout the world to unite in a fatwa against you. We are all nice chaps and extremely tolerant and grown-up about misguided views such as yours and even allow you the FREEDOM to express them in a Christian country.

    By saying Jesus was NOT the son of God is equivalent to me saying that those Danish cartoons of Mohamed were very accurate portrayals of your prophet! And as for Christianity "not making sense, confusing and contradictory" ( your words)! Well, please!!. And you don't think Islam is in a mess with Muslim killing Muslim!!. Just read the papers young lady.

    As for wanting to talk and dress like your prophet Mohammed, that does cause some tension in the civilized country. Most of the world has moved on since 600 AD. and we don't all live in the desert. Do you really suggest that all true Christians dress like Jesus??. We'd all be pretty cold in the winter months.
    The Christians have a basic set of disciplines: the ten commandments. One can live a sin-free life by following those simple set of rules. Islam seems to me to have much greater set of house-rules which are totally beyond belief. Drinking water with the left hand. How to use the loo, entering with the left foot first and exiting with the right first!! (Sound more like a dance step). All the mutterings a true Muslim has to make before and after the unmentionables.
    If that, and having worshipping you prophet five times a day - even during work time, isn't control-freakery I really don't know what is. The sounds very dangerous to me.

    Sure we've moved on a bit since the year 1 AD. We do not stone people. We do not kill homosexuals or those who have committed adultery. We respect ALL animals. We believe that everyone is equal in the sight of God. We are taught tolerance which is one reason Muslims say of Britain it is "a good place to be a Muslim". I bet there are no Islamic countries where it's "good to be a Christian". We let you build your mosques here. How about Christians being permitted to build their churches in Egypt. They have to be built those places of worship under ground so that they can't be seen. But Egypt still puts on a 'modern and liberal' front when aiming at our tourist industry. I bet there are no 'Church sight-seeing tours' in their holiday brochures!!

    Oh and by the way, Khaffir (which seems to be spelt in many different ways), IS used as an insult. That is why it appears in the Saudi Quoran to describe non-Muslims. I worked in South Africa for a while, and the word is used to describe the 'lowest form of humanity'.

    I could say a lot more and deviate even more from the topic in hand, "Guantanamo", but I wont.
    It would seem, young J4M, that you and I shall never agree.
    Have a good day.

    GUKC

    PS. It's a pity our politician didn't read the entries in this blog. They may then understand the true feelings of our communities.

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  • 77. At 09:42am on 26 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "Why do non-Muslims get so offended when they hear the "k" word?"

    Read this and you might find out:-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar

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  • 78. At 09:46am on 26 Jan 2010, Tempus Fugit wrote:

    "Jesus (peace be upon him) was NOT the son of God"

    I'm a complete atheist and even I know you're wrong:-

    Jesus of Nazareth (c. 4 BC/BCE – c. 30 AD/CE), also known as Jesus Christ, is the central figure of Christianity, which views him as the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament, with most Christian denominations believing him to be the SON OF GOD who was raised from the dead. [5] Islam considers Jesus a prophet and also the Messiah. Several other religions revere him in some way. He is one of the most influential figures in human history.

    Matthew 16:15-16 refers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God#.22Son_of_God.22_according_to_the_Christian_Bible
    http://www.everystudent.com/features/faith.html

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  • 79. At 10:21am on 26 Jan 2010, good_UKCitizen wrote:

    By the way J4M,
    You strike me a a pleasant, educated, articulate and suitably brain-washed young lady. Can't help thinking that if we were ever to meet, we might even actually like each other.

    GUKC

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