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Flip flop and fox, when will they fly?

Mark Mardell | 18:14 UK time, Wednesday, 2 March 2011

Newt_Gingrich_Finger.jpgPut your right leg in, put your right leg out. Some of the Republican Party's finest are dancing around the country doing the presidential Hokey Cokey. They won't say they will, they won't say they won't.

But have we just had a big fat hint from the Fox News network?

The conservative cable news network employs several high profile Republicans, and it has just suspended two potential candidates
it has contributor arrangements with, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum, both of whom have signalled possible runs for the presidency. This was the on-air announcement:

"The suspension is effective for 60 days. Then, on 1 May, their contracts will be terminated unless they notify Fox that they are not running for president. Now, this has been contemplated from the start, from the very beginning, but it is effective today.


"This is Fox policy. This is the announcement being made today, and it does not preclude other announcements that may be made in the future."

Three others, Sarah Palin, Mike Huckabee and John Bolton, stay on the books. Does that mean they have given their bosses at Fox a clue about their intentions? Maybe not. Maybe their words of wisdom are better box office.

Undeclared potential candidates are political stars. They can earn big fees for speaking.
But nobody is going to pay a candidate for selling themselves. But is there a political, as well as a commercial, advantage to the Republican fan dance?

Newt Gingrich, the buzz went, would be the first serious contender formally to throw his hat in the ring - well, sort of formally. He would set up an exploratory committee. Major news organisations were briefed that this was going to happen on Thursday. Then eight hours later he wasn't.

His team issued a statement: "Gingrich is not travelling to Georgia to announce that he will form 'an exploratory committee'. To be clear, while Speaker Gingrich is in Georgia on Thursday, he will NOT announce the formation of an exploratory committee."

That doesn't mean he never will.

No-one seems keen to make it official. In the last political cycle, things started flying much sooner. John McCain set up a committee straight after the mid-terms in November 2006 and announced he would run in late February 2007. Mitt Romney had declared by early February. Now we are into March, but it's not always like that. Three elections ago, John Kerry left it until September of the year before.

Some say the delay this time is because President Barack Obama is looking hard to beat, a tougher opponent than he was in the glory days straight after the mid-terms. Why not wait until 2016?

But Hans Noel, a professor of government at Georgetown University, tells me it's in the Republican Party's interests to play it long.

"Right now it is tricky for the party, with an emboldened ideological group, the Tea Party, a group uninterested in compromise. Whereas, others are looking ahead to an improved economy. Incumbents are always hard to beat - so there's no reason to rush when it is tricky."

Others feel it helps Mr Obama, allowing him more time to be presidential before he has to descend into the partisan fray.

Still, the field is narrowing. Republican Mike Pence from Indiana and South Dakota Senator John Thune have dropped out. Donald Trump has dropped in. Jon Huntsman, Tim Pawlenty, Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney look almost certain to run. Haley Barbour and Mitch Daniels are still thinking about it. And Mrs Palin? She's off to make a major speech in India later this month.

It would be deeply weird to make a big announcement abroad, but she is the biggest tease of the lot, seemingly on a mission to keep us all guessing.

Comments

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  • 1. At 8:43pm on 02 Mar 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    Your bias is evident. Fox is middle of the road, only because the BBC and the other U.S networks are on the left you call Foxconservative.

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  • 2. At 8:53pm on 02 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #1

    As is yours.

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  • 3. At 9:18pm on 02 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    MM wrote-

    "It would be deeply weird to make a big announcement abroad, but she [Palin] is the biggest tease of the lot, seemingly on a mission to keep us all guessing."

    Some find her more comically entertaining then mystifying. The television series, Sarah Palin's Alaska was a wonderful farce to watch this season.

    Palin loves the adoration of her fans and the money their adoration puts in her pocket. She would be a fool to take a pay-cut as President while her brand is still hot. But, of course, taking a pay-cut and risking the loss of adoration from her infatuated fan-base would be one of those, "deeply weird" events she has demonstrated to the electorate in the past.

    Take cover, America! Loose cannon on the deck!

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  • 4. At 9:29pm on 02 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Palin Alert!!

    Might not be Sarah running in 2012. It's just been announced her daughter Bristol is releasing her "Plain-spoken and disarmingly down to earth..." biography, says William Morrow of the Daily Telegraph.

    I know that, by constitutional law, Bristol Palin will not be legally of age for the Presidency in 2012. But the Palins have a record of not paying attention to those 'rules thingies'. They're mavericks.

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  • 5. At 9:33pm on 02 Mar 2011, Ad wrote:

    1 The BBC is not on the left. It is not privately or commercially funded and therefore has no need to pander to commercial interests, rich foreign owners, or shareholders. That to me is a great advantage.

    MagicKirin needs to see / hear Arthur Scargill or Tony Benn to get some idea of what a leftist really is.

    The BBC has no particular political bias. It does allow speakers and contributors of all political persuasions on to current affairs programmes. So for example Tony Benn appears quite regularly (he's getting on a bit now, bless him).

    Pre-elections, all major parties must be allocated the same amount of space.

    The BBC comes under endless criticism from left AND right for being 'left' or 'right'. It just gets on with its job as the best broadcasting organisation in the world.

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  • 6. At 9:46pm on 02 Mar 2011, rodidog wrote:

    Mark, I must admit, I never heard the phrase, "hokey cokey" before. I have heard of "hokey pokey". I suppose it's a British thing. Anyway, Newt is good for commentary but I could never vote for the guy; too much baggage.

    As for the Donald, well, he’s an interesting character and would be fun to watch in debates but I doubt his ability to run for President. But who knows? Maybe one of the challenges for “The Apprentice” can be how to elect Trump. The winner can become his press secretary.

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  • 7. At 9:53pm on 02 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #5

    In Magic's world middle-of-the-road is somewhere to the right of the universe.

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  • 8. At 10:03pm on 02 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 6 rodidog-

    "As for the Donald, well, he’s an interesting character and would be fun to watch in debates but I doubt his ability to run for President. But who knows? Maybe one of the challenges for “The Apprentice” can be how to elect Trump. The winner can become his press secretary."

    I like your The Apprentice challenge idea. LOL

    Trump may be just the President we need in view of our current budget deficits. He's a man that knows how to run a company into bankruptcy and get funding to start another one up again.

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  • 9. At 10:15pm on 02 Mar 2011, rodidog wrote:

    8 PD,

    "Trump may be just the President we need in view of our current budget deficits. He's a man that knows how to run a company into bankruptcy and get funding to start another one up again."


    They do say experince matters.

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  • 10. At 10:19pm on 02 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #4

    Here's a link to interesting stuff about hokey pokey--hokey cokey--and other variations. Like you I had never heard hokey cokey, always hokey pokey. There's more to this hokey pokey/hokey cokey stuff than meets the eye.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokey_Cokey

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  • 11. At 10:32pm on 02 Mar 2011, Billythefirst wrote:

    1. At 8:43pm on 02 Mar 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    Your bias is evident. Fox is middle of the road, only because the BBC and the other U.S networks are on the left you call Foxconservative.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What media would you describe as right wing?

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  • 12. At 10:58pm on 02 Mar 2011, Risforme wrote:

    You missed a key point Mardell. With the Citizen's United ruling there is essentially no reason to declare early. Declaring early was just a way to raise money to pad your war chest for the General election. With billionaires and millionaires waiting to support the Republican Party's next Candidate whoever it is there is no advantage to declaring now and giving the Democrats a chance to tar their names.

    If this 2012 election is competitive you're going to see massive amounts of money flow in from Oil, Health Care, and Banking industries into Republican campaigns.

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  • 13. At 11:00pm on 02 Mar 2011, starFloridian wrote:

    Obama hard to beat in 2012!!! Surely you jest! As election day neared, voters would only need to recall that he failed to keep any of the promises he made on the campaign trail. His health care scheme alone, a prescription for financial ruin, should be enough to seal his fate.

    As for media bias, it's plainly evident that Fox is the lone advocate for the right, with all three networks, plus CNN, MSNBC, and HLN, lined up on the left.

    Unfair competition? It's a no-brainer!

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  • 14. At 11:15pm on 02 Mar 2011, goodgriefChris wrote:

    Of course they won’t all declare just now. They don’t have the answers just now. The Tea Party hasn’t told them what to think, or say, or do right now.

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  • 15. At 11:38pm on 02 Mar 2011, Dana Blankenhorn wrote:

    By this point in the 2004 cycle Howard Dean was still almost two weeks from his famous "California convention speech," http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Howard_Dean%27s_speech_of_March_15,_2003, where he said he was here to represent "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

    But people knew he'd been running for months.

    GW Bush announced in May, 1999, but people knew he'd been running for months. Bill Bradley announced that September, but again he'd been talking about it long before.

    Generally, the earlier people are announcing the more competitive they expect the election to be. The 2008 race was an open seat, one reason why everyone was in early. The 2004 race was contested, but there were a lot more people looking at it by this time in 2003 than we have now.

    I think most Republicans think they're going to lose next year, at least those who think they might want to be President. And Mitt Romney won't be the nominee, because of "RomneyCare," which is too much like the health care bill Obama signed for the Tea Party to stand.

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  • 16. At 11:41pm on 02 Mar 2011, neilmurg wrote:

    #1

    You say all other news agencies are to the left of Fox, but Fox is centre (presumably center to you) ground? Review your Euclidian geometry

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  • 17. At 11:43pm on 02 Mar 2011, HabitualHero wrote:

    I don't know who the guy in the picture is but if I were american I wouldn't vote for him even if he was holding my family hostage.

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  • 18. At 00:01am on 03 Mar 2011, Scott0962 wrote:

    The desire of potential Republican candidates to not declare themselves yet is perfectly understandable: why expose themselves to the constant scrutiny and sniping with the media hanging over their every word and gesture just waiting to pounce on anything that can be usued to make them foolish before they have to?

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  • 19. At 00:01am on 03 Mar 2011, republicancritic wrote:

    So the old campaign square dance is getting going again......
    Personally I thought that the likes of Newt Gingrich belong firmly in the past, as I think the debate has really moved on from the nineties.

    MM is correct, the one to watch is really Sarah Palin, who seems to command immense popularity, for no apparent intellectual reason; sorry guys the tea party movement she inspired, has only deepened the divisions within US society, surely the American people have more sense........

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  • 20. At 00:04am on 03 Mar 2011, Scott0962 wrote:

    re. #17. At 11:43pm on 02 Mar 2011, HabitualHero wrote:
    I don't know who the guy in the picture is but if I were american I wouldn't vote for him even if he was holding my family hostage.



    It's Newt Gingrich and if you were an American who didn't recognize him the odds are you wouldn't be voting anyway.

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  • 21. At 00:13am on 03 Mar 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #11
    11. At 10:32pm on 02 Mar 2011, Billythefirst wrote:
    1. At 8:43pm on 02 Mar 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    Your bias is evident. Fox is middle of the road, only because the BBC and the other U.S networks are on the left you call Foxconservative.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What media would you describe as right wing?
    __________________

    The Weekly standard, Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingrahm
    ref #5

    Perhaps you need to hear on the BBC reports on the Tea Party even the Democrats need to correct their mistakes

    Not to mention the moral equvilency the BBC has between Islamic terrorist who rule in Gaza and Lebanon and the democratic progressive state of Israel

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  • 22. At 00:17am on 03 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote:

    5. At 9:33pm on 02 Mar 2011, Ad wrote:

    1 The BBC is not on the left. It is not privately or commercially funded and therefore has no need to pander to commercial interests, rich foreign owners, or shareholders. That to me is a great advantage.

    ------------------------------

    boy, are YOU clueless.

    The BBC clearly has a bias toward government control as being superior to all other forms of life. This is in part because the BBC could not exist without government control.

    Would you trust a news organization owned by the government in France, Spain, or China? So why trust the one run by the Brits?
    Ad:
    MagicKirin needs to see / hear Arthur Scargill or Tony Benn to get some idea of what a leftist really is.

    The BBC has no particular political bias. It does allow speakers and contributors of all political persuasions on to current affairs programmes. So for example Tony Benn appears quite regularly (he's getting on a bit now, bless him).

    ------------------------------------

    Really? So the failure of the BBC to mention that US FEDERAL WORKERS DO NOT HAVE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING when talking about the "unfairness" of the events in Wisconsin is just bad reporting?

    The travesty is the assumption that only important news appears in the BBC, which means that if they choose not to mention it, it is not important -

    But who gave them the power to decide?

    -----------------------------
    Ad:
    Pre-elections, all major parties must be allocated the same amount of space.
    -----------------------------

    Yeah, right, thus endeth free speech. But most Europeans don't get "free speech".

    So if there are 130 parties - is that OK? They all get the same time?
    -------------------------
    Ad:
    The BBC comes under endless criticism from left AND right for being 'left' or 'right'. It just gets on with its job as the best broadcasting organisation in the world.
    --------------------------

    I will admit that Dr. Who and Top Gear are the best shows on TV in the US. But the news team? Like Mardell, they don't get the US but have no problem tell us what is wrong with us.

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  • 23. At 00:29am on 03 Mar 2011, Apolloin wrote:

    Rush Limbaugh = middle of the road?

    You didn't have much credibility at first, Kirin, but that just destroyed it!

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  • 24. At 00:57am on 03 Mar 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    pub: Trump may be just the President we need in view of our current budget deficits. He's a man that knows how to run a company into bankruptcy and get funding to start another one up again.
    -------------
    Trump is morally Democratic and businessly Republican...

    I do not like how on his beauty pageants in USA and Universe, they now ask them all these political questions...do we really think beauty queens will solve world's problems?

    I think its sad that Trump is letting judges base the winner upon which political party they support, if they are for or against gay marriage or what race they are...

    I liked the beauty pageants before Trump made them political pageants...

    And what about giving the prize to Piers Morgan on Celeb Apprentice when during his last challenge he said he gave the ppl a lot to drink so they would buy more?

    I thought Piers was in bad taste, altho he's good on America's got talent, I guess, but Hasselhoff was the best...AGT is a strange show, my friend calls it America's Got No Talent, b/c its got lotsa cheese...that littel girl should have won last year, Jackie Evanko..

    I do like that Trump tried to buy the building and offered another farther away so they would not build mosque overlooking 9/11...

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  • 25. At 01:01am on 03 Mar 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    repub: sorry guys the tea party movement she inspired, has only deepened the divisions within US society
    -----------
    Personally, I call Obama "the Great Divider" as his stance on controversial issues often divides ppl rather than bringing them together...
    ----------
    Dana:I think most Republicans think they're going to lose next year, at least those who think they might want to be President.
    --------------
    After the last election when more Repubs were elected then Dems?

    If that's not a sign, I don't know what is!

    2012 is the Repubs' year! :)

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  • 26. At 01:06am on 03 Mar 2011, Scott0962 wrote:

    re. #19. At 00:01am on 03 Mar 2011, republicancritic wrote:
    "MM is correct, the one to watch is really Sarah Palin, who seems to command immense popularity, for no apparent intellectual reason; sorry guys the tea party movement she inspired, has only deepened the divisions within US society, surely the American people have more sense........"

    Sarah Palin is unelectable and Republicans know it. She inspires the same knee-jerk reaction among liberals that Hillary Clinton does with conservatives.

    I don't know if he can be persuaded to run but I like what I've heard of Mitch Daniels, the Republican governor of the state of Indiana. There's a conservative who can make an articulate argument for an alternative political philosophy to the liberls' tax and spend, big government, nanny state ideology that doesn't make conservatives sound like the Grinch coming to steal Christmas.

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  • 27. At 01:54am on 03 Mar 2011, InColorado wrote:

    Hello Mark Mardell ! I think you are doing a great job. I agree that the BBC has no political bias. It is refreshing to have a place that you can trust for news about what is happening throughout the world.
    And I must admit that even my far right friends are aware of how biased Fox News is. I mean really, everyone knows that Fox is actually just entertainment for a small vocal portion of our society.
    As I see it, It really is not going to matter who the republicans choose for a candidate, no one stands a chance against Obama in 2012.
    Thank you for your effort!

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  • 28. At 02:29am on 03 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    I had to re-read all this and now I see you are spot on. The first and last sentence covers it all.

    Fox is trying to throw the princess under the bus again because nobody can fiddle with the conservative candidates like Sarah Palin. She is the Zombie Queen of 2008 that Fox threw under the bus the day after the election. Zombies are uniquely new world but they are persistent like a bad dream. She does however have many followers who worship her. We have harnessed the power of Sarah Palin and have unleashed it upon the world.

    Kadaffy looked like he was reading from his governing laws but in actuality he was reading Palin’s new book in the large print, easy-to-read Farsi edition. The whole middle east is in fits because Kadaffy has been quoting Sarah Palin since the top of the year. She is our new secret weapon of mass destruction, but you never saw it that way did you? That is because we are very sneaky.

    All of the detainees we released from Gitmo were heavily indoctrinated with Plainisms and have spread the poison to the appropriate countries. As soon as Gadaffy started quoting Sarah Palin, the revolts began. Welcome to Zombieland 2012.

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  • 29. At 02:49am on 03 Mar 2011, chronophobe wrote:

    Ok, this is my two-penny hypothesis: the Republican party is divided along one major axis, which I shall here name the Rove/Koch divide. There are, to be sure, minor faults which run perpendicular to this axis, but the Rove/Koch line is the big one.

    Potential candidates, mindful of the chasm, nonetheless have to settle one or the other side of this divide. Since the fog of battle seems to be obscuring who will emerge as the dominant faction, choosing sides is at present a risky business. Particularly when most candidates come from the Rovean 'establishment' side (c'mon, you know it's true!), but need to keep their populist credentials in some sense plausible in case the revolt of the masses tips the balance of power farther in favour of the the Kochists.

    This all seems like good news for liberals, as we can sit back, have some popcorn, and watch the spectacle.

    Have at it, boys and girls!

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  • 30. At 02:56am on 03 Mar 2011, chronophobe wrote:

    re: 28 Lord Jimbo

    Zombies, eh?

    A new creature to add to my political taxonomy. I am familiar with the 10 foot extraterrestrial lizards, and have my self bravely uncovered the existence of two foot trolls from the centre of the earth (Murdoch's crew), but these zombies are something new.

    I think you're definitely on to something here, u betcha!

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  • 31. At 03:16am on 03 Mar 2011, CuriousAmerican wrote:

    Its always funny to see the comments of Euros who pretend to be experts on "american points of view"

    They are almost always a childish stereotype and are a gross misunderstanding of motive and effect.

    In order to really understand us (which I seriously doubt many liberals do) you must understand a central fact of what it to be an American....One is not an american by birth...one is an American by belief in an idea...

    The idea that one can be better, that tomorrow will be better than yesterday and that thru hard work and dedication, your dreams can come true....

    Sadly it seems that liberals both foreign and domestic think this is an unreachable goal and have set it upon themselves to destroy all who dare to try and reach it...and declare all people to sub-human to dare throw off the shackles of govt.(liberal) control...

    The last 100 years of European slaughter have been a destraction to our people that have allowed the tyranny of government to entrench itself. The generations to come in the next 100 years will pull it out by its rotten roots, bit by bit...piece by piece...

    This correction has already begun..with liberals all over the world screaming for fear of loss of power..

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  • 32. At 03:17am on 03 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    Re:Chronophobe #30
    Careful how you use the ‘B’ word phrase. It is one of the triggers we found that are uniquely influential. There is no telling what will happen next. You may as well use the desert mouse word on Dune for equal impact.
    We learned the sneakiness from the natives here long ago.

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  • 33. At 03:26am on 03 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 29 chronophobe-

    "Ok, this is my two-penny hypothesis: the Republican party is divided along one major axis, which I shall here name the Rove/Koch divide. There are, to be sure, minor faults which run perpendicular to this axis, but the Rove/Koch line is the big one."

    By Jove, Pinko! I think you're on to something there.

    I would postulate at least some of the minor faults along your Rove/Koch Divide are made up of the several 'national' TEA groups. These groups are also very fluid so the fault lines move along the divide in haphazard manner. Today they fear "Obamacare"; tomorrow they fear the "alien invasion"; the next day they fear... Whatever is the flavor of the day is enough to shift the size and directions of the faults lines along the axis. Like driving a nail into a puddle of mercury. The groups are constantly bubbling off into free-rolling divisions and migrating into different puddles by temporary attraction.

    Since the TEA Parties are a sub-group within the GOP, the Democratic Party does not have to shift along with the whims and fancies of the TEA groups.

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  • 34. At 03:40am on 03 Mar 2011, CuriousAmerican wrote:

    there is an old saying:

    When the people are ready...a leader will come...

    A tidal shift is coming...This shift is not about Republican/Democrat

    ...It's about the people realizing we are getting rolled no matter who is in power and we "mad as hell and not going to take it anymore"

    The establishment Republicans hate the Tea Party folks just as much as the Democrats do for the same reason....Both are afraid of loosing their power to steal from the people to empower and enrich themselves at the expense of the average american.

    Just like in the Middle east the internet has allowed the people to realize how bad they are being screwed by the people in power...

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  • 35. At 04:03am on 03 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    I cannot believe my eyes! I have to go to the BBC to find someone who sees the TEAs are not Pubs, but some Pubs are TEAs! The TEAs are the malcontent party, formerly the Libertarians.

    If it was a grass roots movement that sprung up with national organization in only a few months, how come the media had to tell us about them? It has been a back and forth coup but there is no winner and no central unity. FOX gave space to the zombie and now they are trying to rub her out again without disenfranchising her followers. See what happens when media dabbles in national politics? They are so hosed!
    Now FOX is trying to retain the volatile conservative independent vote in a dance with the Black Swan.

    This is a great place! Do you think Palin got an invitation to the wedding? I keep looking in the mailbox but nothing yet has been delivered. You?

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  • 36. At 04:20am on 03 Mar 2011, JClarkson wrote:

    "Newt Gingrich, the buzz went, would be the first serious contender formally to throw his hat in the ring - well, sort of formally."


    Newt is not a viable option. There were some ethical issues in his past and I don't think that America is quite ready to vote for a salamander, just yet...

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  • 37. At 05:07am on 03 Mar 2011, tuulen wrote:


    Part of the difficulty potential Republican presidential candidates could now face seems to be a lack of issues for them to discuss. For instance, the Republicans rallied in the November 2010 elections, and won a majority of seats in the US House of Representatives. Then, a predictable vote lead by House Republicans, to shrink the federal deficit, became destined to go nowhere because Senate Democrats could not allow that to happen. So, a major Republican election victory then fizzled, and that now leaves potential Republican presidential candidates with little to talk about.

    Meanwhile, peaceful revolutions appear to be breaking out and succeeding in North African nations, all without direct US intervention, and the less the US becomes involved there the better, with the credit for that going to the Obama administration. So, the Republicans gain no political traction there, either.

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  • 38. At 05:36am on 03 Mar 2011, KScurmudgeon wrote:

    I just found this today searching for some news. It draws some striking parallels between the economy of Egypt and what I see happening around me in the US (and probably elsewhere in the world).
    http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion2011/02201122414315249621.html#

    Can any of your Brits tell me about this David Harvey?

    This would explain what is happening in American politics, as seen even in our blog...

    Thanks,

    KScurmudgeon

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  • 39. At 07:47am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    MM quotes: "The suspension is effective for 60 days. Then, on 1 May, their contracts will be terminated unless they notify Fox that they are not running for president. Now, this has been contemplated from the start, from the very beginning, but it is effective today.

    "This is Fox policy".






    Now, Mark. Could you please inform your readers whether ABC and CBS let alone NPR/PBS have a similar policy re their contributors/potential Democratic candidates?

    [Inquiring minds want to know]

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  • 40. At 07:51am on 03 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 34 CuriousAmerican-

    "The establishment Republicans hate the Tea Party folks just as much as the Democrats do for the same reason....Both are afraid of loosing their power to steal from the people to empower and enrich themselves at the expense of the average american."

    Like it or not, the Republicans created the illusion of the TEA Party with the basic idea of mobilizing unregistered citizens and an inactive, registered electorate to come to the polls and cast a ballot. In this they failed. There was no over-all significant increase in new voter participation during the 2010 bi-election. There was, arguably, a shift of, so called, independent voters supporting Republican candidates. Successful in some districts, but not others.

    The TEA Party movement, at the grass-roots level, was organized by individual Republican activists in a way not unlike the individual Democratic Party activists organized for the McGovern campaign pursuing the youth vote in the 1972 election. The idea being to tap into a large, inactive electorate and motivate them to enter the polls in support of specific party candidate, or candidates.

    I have devoted many hours of research into the 'grass-roots' level of TEA Party organization throughout the nation. What I found were hundreds of local clubs (for lack of a better word) throughout the nation sharing, at best, one basic idea. They distrusted the established political parties and anyone holding national political office. These 'clubs' didn't even share a common name. Each club adopting some flag-waving, neo-patriotic moniker of their own design and fancy. The overwhelming majority of these clubs originally instigated by a Republican activist who must have spent considerable hours traveling and speaking to small knots of individuals, convincing them to create a local political group that would bring the change they desired to the political process.

    These local clubs attracted people who, by their own admittance, had seldom or never voted in any election since reaching the age of majority. They were people angry with the failing economy that was changing their livelihood in ways they found uncomfortable, if not disruptive. Someone had moved their cheese in the maze of life, and they were not happy.

    Within their new club they found they could stand up and speak their mind to like-minded attendees. This initial sound of their own voice, and the approval it met among the like-minded was exhilarating. Then they discovered that they would be expected to give their individual time and money to the club in order for the club to actually move toward changing the face of established politics. They couldn't just get away with sounding their voice and expecting someone else to attend subsequent meetings, rallies, and vote at the polls. They themselves must expend their time, energy, and financial resources toward the accomplishment of a goal. These are people used to stating their mind, expecting that someone else will carry the ball for them; as evidenced by their historic lack of interest and participation in politics. Individual participation and interest rapidly dropped off within months of joining a group. This was experienced my the greatest majority of local 'grass-roots' political clubs across the nation.

    The failure of the Republican activist/organizers can be attributed to a lack of understanding that all politics are local; and to the belief that they could motive a politically naive and unmotivated electorate to participate in the political process. Focus was placed on national office, not on state and local politics. The historically inactive voter quickly lost interest and returned to their everyday, personal interests. No bulge of new voters at the polls.

    At the national level of organization, there are over a dozen 'national' leadership groups vying to gain control over the 'grass-roots' clubs. Each claiming to hold sway over local clubs which, by their very nature, strongly mistrust major organizations; and don't wish to be a part of a large organization. They naively believe they can control national issues at the local level of organization. They believe the majority of their fellow citizens share their beliefs and will vote in support of those beliefs without intercommunication nor a definite platform to follow.

    The TEA Party influence is given a lot of credit it does not deserve. It is nothing more than a faction within the Republican Party that is dividing the party instead of uniting it. Those divisions will become clearer if the current Congress cannot achieve noticeable goals set down in the Contract for America the Republican Party created.

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  • 42. At 08:00am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    MM : Three elections ago, John Kerry left it until September of the year before.



    Is that why Mr. Obama may have to wait till September for the likes of senator Kerry to enter the ring?

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  • 43. At 08:01am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    MM: " Donald Trump has dropped in."


    I suspect only to be able to say on TV: "Barack Hussein, you're fired!"

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  • 44. At 08:04am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    Ad wrote:
    1 The BBC is not on the left. It is not privately or commercially funded and therefore has no need to pander to commercial interests, rich foreign owners, or shareholders. That to me is a great advantage.



    Unless you consider sever cuts to BBC's international broadcast ops.

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  • 45. At 08:06am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    d_m wrote:#5

    In Magic's world middle-of-the-road is somewhere to the right of the universe.





    Those with an even a rudimentary knowledge of physics would know there's no such thing as 'right' or 'left' in the known Universe.

    [or even 'up' or 'down'.]

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  • 46. At 08:16am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    "The last 100 years of European slaughter have been a destraction to our people that have allowed the tyranny of government to entrench itself."




    Basques versus the French, Croats versus Serbs, Catalans versus Spaniards, Flemmings versus Walloons, Scottsts versus the English and last but not least - Ossies versus Wessies.

    Not unlike Shia versus Sunni. :-)

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  • 47. At 08:19am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    "Like it or not, the Republicans created the illusion of the TEA Party"



    For quite a while the English too thought that the Tea Party was an illusion. And that it was merely about taxes. :-)

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  • 48. At 08:28am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 49. At 08:54am on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #45 PMK

    It's possible in Magic's world.

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  • 50. At 08:55am on 03 Mar 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #40

    I think you wasted your time researching the Tea Party you did not fo a very good job of it.

    The Tea Party is strictly a movement to reduce spending instead of raising taxes

    Taxenoughed already

    The Neo Patriot line is a varation of the crying racism mantra the left likes to use.

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  • 51. At 08:55am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 52. At 09:17am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    d_m wrote:
    #45 PMK

    It's possible in Magic's world.





    d_m, the current debate is only whether Universe (not the 'known' universe) has as many as 80 dimensions, or as few as 11.


    Btw. In China 'Kirin' is known as 'kilin'.

    [just as 'erections' as 'elections']

    [at least within a circle of 'superstring' theory's aficionados. :-)]

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  • 53. At 09:50am on 03 Mar 2011, champagne_charlie wrote:

    Not relevant to the debate but I dont care. A senseless act, all the folks killed or injured operate from a base very near to where I live in England.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12621832

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  • 54. At 10:14am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    Re #53

    Not exactly irrelevant, charlie, if you consider what happened as a consequence of Berlin disco bombing.

    [btw. Mitrovica is not exactly an Albanian enclave]

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  • 55. At 10:28am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    And how would you explain, charlie , that none of the 'usual suspects' here wants to discuss, or even mention, THAT barbaric attack:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12631501



    Could it be because it was directed at Christians?

    By fervent followers of "the great religion of peace"?

    [Inquiring minds want to know]

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  • 56. At 10:54am on 03 Mar 2011, Marnip wrote:

    31. At 03:16am on 03 Mar 2011, CuriousAmerican wrote:

    "In order to really understand us (which I seriously doubt many liberals do) you must understand a central fact of what it to be an American....One is not an american by birth...one is an American by belief in an idea..."

    Seriously - get over yourself. You're American if you're born in America (unless you're half black and running for president, where that doesn't appear to be enough for some right whingers).

    It's a country with over 300 million inhabitants. To suggest that all of those people are American because they all subscribe to the same characteristic which you've decided to pull out of the air (and conveniently is something you happen to subscribe to) is lunacy.

    Not to try to start a Britain Vs. America: Who's Better? competition as these things often devolve into, but America is founded on principles largely developed by British (and other) philosophers, using the English language and common law legal system. If being American were even simply an idea, it would likely be a Euro-British one.

    But as I said, stop over-romanticising what it is to be born in a country through pure chance.


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  • 57. At 11:20am on 03 Mar 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    Ad wrote:
    1 The BBC is not on the left. It is not privately or commercially funded and therefore has no need to pander to commercial interests, rich foreign owners, or shareholders. That to me is a great advantage.

    _________

    Your premise is that because it is publicly funded it will not be biased. Since goverment beaurcrats are genrally liberal in both the U.S and U.K..PBS in the U.S news programming is very biased in its reporting.

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  • 58. At 11:22am on 03 Mar 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #40

    another point consider the WI union protesters have been far more vicious and violent than the Tea Party ralies.

    Physical attacks on reporters
    signs comparing the Govenor to Murburak
    union thugs attacking people

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  • 59. At 11:47am on 03 Mar 2011, Ad wrote:

    'AMERICANA' PODCASTS

    The Tea Party has had quite a lot of coverage in GB tho' I'd be surprised if many of we Brits could define exactly what it is. My impression is that Americans have on the whole had an instinctive distrust of Big Government that dates back to the old days when self-reliance was the key to staying alive and prospering. This distrust is sometimes muted but if things are perceived to be going badly, as now, it comes to the fore. So the Tea Party is a modern manifestation of a centuries-old gut feeling among people who don't normally take much part in national politics. It is quite naturally a right-wing movement but this is not necessarily good news for the Republican Party.

    On the subject of the BBC and American politics, this might be of interest to American friends. 'Americana' is a 30-minute weekly broadcast on the BBC's Radio 4. It covers a multitude of aspects of life in the USA, with interviews and commentary. There are usually 3 items per broadcast. I have sampled the podcasts and suggest you might like to try the following:

    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/americana/americana_20101025-1130a.mp3

    It includes

    (1) an interview with Michelle Malkin (a well-known blogger, Rep tendancy)
    (2) Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson + the film 'Fair Game'
    (3) Lefty Kreh, famous and maybe the best fly-fisherman!

    Before the Mid-terms there was a podcast (26 September) that included interviews with some commentators on the Tea-party. This is at:

    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/americana/americana_20100927-1130a.mp3

    In return if any of you on the other side of the ocean can suggest good podcasts on politics in the USA I'd appreciate it, but even more, if you have a regular and informed American RADIO commentary on life in GB that would be rewarding: it is refreshing to see ourselves as others see us.



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  • 60. At 11:47am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    Re #56


    You're right that U.S. has always been an idea.


    That's why all those sick inhabitants of an ailing continent from which our ancestors fled centuries ago cannot comprehend why a concept of the United States of Europe would never work.

    Because, unlike in the U.S., immigrants to EUSSR don't want desperately to become Europeans, preferring to remain merely economic migrants retaining their old nationalistic/religious customs and prejudices.


    BTW. U.S. is now more like 350 million strong.

    Although roughly 20 million are illegal aliens.

    [not including those kept for decades in captivity in Area 51. :-)]

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  • 61. At 11:52am on 03 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    Re #57

    In a poll conducted several years ago roughly 90 of working American journalists/broadcasters identified themselves as liberals/Democrats.


    Not that it would ever bias their output, mind ya :-)))))))))))))))))))))

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  • 62. At 12:15pm on 03 Mar 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 43 powermeerkat wrote:
    “MM: " Donald Trump has dropped in."


    I suspect only to be able to say on TV: "Barack Hussein, you're fired!"”

    What on earth makes you think that Mr Trump would address his President as Barack Hussein? As opposed to President Obama or Mr President? Why would he choose to insult him by denying him both his correct title and his correct name? Who on earth refers to people by their first name and their middle name only? Who refers to the last two Presidents as George Walker or Bill Jefferson? Who refers to Mr Trump as Donald John?

    Trump may be odd, but he would have to be exceedingly odd and ill-informed, not to say ill mannered, to do something like that.

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  • 63. At 12:23pm on 03 Mar 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 55 PMK

    “And how would you explain, charlie , that none of the 'usual suspects' here wants to discuss, or even mention, THAT barbaric attack:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12631501



    Could it be because it was directed at Christians?

    By fervent followers of "the great religion of peace"?

    [Inquiring minds want to know]”


    Why should people choose not to discuss the murder of a Pakistani politician in a blog on the USA and a thread on possible candidates for the Rep nomination for POTUS?

    Even though PMK has decided they should?

    It’s a mystery…

    I hate to break it to you, PMK, but this isn’t your blog, despite occasional appearances to the contrary. You don’t get to set the agenda.

    Are you perhaps familiar with the words ‘off’ and ‘’topic’?

    And what exactly is there to ‘discuss’. Are you expecting someone to say the murder was a good thing?

    “[Inquiring minds want to know]”

    I believe I have asked before, to no response – why do you feel the need to keep parroting this? And whose exactly are these ‘Inquiring minds’? Who else beside yourself do you think you speak for?

    (PS Kindly do not attempt, as you have at least once before, to instruct me not to intervene in a ‘private conversation’. This is a public, and British, blog.)

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  • 64. At 12:32pm on 03 Mar 2011, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:

    Mark, if I were a potential candidate I would wait a little while to announce my candidacy; it's too soon for most voters. Now is the time to start rumors & make small trips to Iowa, California, New York, & New Hampshire while few people are looking.

    To everyone else, I'm unmoved by the accusations of media bias these days when there are plenty of alternatives. At some point we have to realized that bias exists in every argument or opinion we express; it's unavoidable due to how we all interpret facts. The real great evils within journalism are lies & fraud, & I have yet to see that here on the BBC.

    powermeerkat, I imagine that no one mentioned the assassination in Pakistan because they did not know about it or they did not want to bring it up in the American blog. I read the article, and in my opinion the man is a martyr.

    On a more festive note, Mardi Gras is upon us and the parades will be rollin 'til Ash Wednesday, so if you're in NOLA have a blast among the crowds & enjoy the spring rains of beads & doubloons. The weather should be nice too.

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  • 65. At 1:57pm on 03 Mar 2011, Oldloadr wrote:

    There is another advantage to GOP hopefuls waiting as long as possible fro a tactical POV: BHO was running for the presidency almost since he was potty trained. Once he got it (by lying about what he would do different from McCain) he doesn't appear to know what to do with it. The longer repubs wait to jump in, the more credibility they have working this theme; i.e. for The One, it's all about the ego, not the country. Yeah, I know anybody that wants to be president has to have an ego as big as Texas (either party), but some can hide it better than others. Even though I didn't care for a lot he did, policy wise, I have to respect Bill Clinton's ability to connect to the average guy/gal.

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  • 66. At 2:09pm on 03 Mar 2011, Mirino wrote:

    I know that there are many Americans who voted for Obama who are very disillusioned with him. Rightly or wrongly the world has always looked towards the USA for democratic example and leadership. Under Obama both appear to be sadly lacking.
    People like to call that wise 'caution', when in fact it could be qualified in a far more derogatory way.
    If I were American, it's certain I would have voted for Obama. I have Texan friends and I couldn't understand why they didn't agree. Now I understand why, and even in Europe one feels as though one has been badly let down.

    Perhaps the USA was too eager to turn the page on Bush. This was understandable. Ironically many are beginning to regret it. Not that Bush should ever make a come-back, but as time goes by the mist clears, and what were considered irresponsible mistakes now seem more like clear-cut, courageous engagements that paradoxically the first concerned have absolutely no fundamental regrets about.

    We are living in a dangerous epoch. It seems to me that so far (which is already a considerable period) Obama hasn't proved himself on the international scene. He seems to have avoided all occasions to do so, other than follow through obligations that he could do nothing about changing, even though he did try to make ridiculous limitations which only represent clear signals to the Taliban of his lack of determination.
    This makes one uneasy, and it may well contribute to a pronounced swing towards the right, as already seems to be the case.

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  • 67. At 3:02pm on 03 Mar 2011, Ad wrote:

    57 MagicK

    BBC FUNDING

    It's not publicly funded in the sense that the Government hands money to the BBC out of general taxation. It IS publicly funded from the Licence payers ie Joe Public. You have a TV or watch TV on computer in GB? You pay a licence fee by whatever means you want. The fee is set by the government. Oldies (75+ I think?) don't pay .

    That way, no businesses can complain that they're helping fund the BBC domestic services from their company taxation. OK, the Licence is a sort of taxation but it can be accounted for and everyone knows how much they pay. In this instance I feel that British people think, on the whole, the BBC sort of 'belongs' to them as they've paid for it directly much as the Royal Mail 'belongs' to them because they keep it going by paying for their stamps. It's not an exact analogy I grant you.

    Not that this is a perfect system! There are plenty of howls and groans about the 'Beeb' from all points of the social and political compass in Britain. Recently too much has been spent on extending the Beeb's Internet sites for instance and they've had to draw their horns in. Others think it's prejudiced whether left or right (it usually depends on which party holds the reins of power: for instance Labour used to whinge greatly about anti-left bias in the Beeb in the old days especially during the Wilson government of the '60s.) Others think the top dogs are paid too much and are out-of-touch with their public - that sort of thing.

    (My post 59 is not yet on. I suggested a couple of podcasts as a sample of a programme called 'Americana' broadcast weekly by BBC Radio 4. If anyone is interested in how the Brits see the US that's a good place to go to. Just Google BBC Americana.)

    As for the foreign services provided by the Beeb, that's a different kettle of fish. The BBC World Service is funded mainly by the Foreign Office and the FO like all govt. departments has had its fair share of The Cuts. So the World Service has been reduced: two important services that went off the air last week were the Latin American service in Spanish and the Portuguese service to ex-Portuguese Empire states in Africa (eg Mozambique and Angola).

    Sorry this is off-topic Mr / Mrs / Ms / Miss Moderator but there you go.

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  • 68. At 3:02pm on 03 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote:

    31. At 03:16am on 03 Mar 2011, CuriousAmerican wrote:

    "Seriously - get over yourself. You're American if you're born in America (unless you're half black and running for president, where that doesn't appear to be enough for some right whingers).

    It's a country with over 300 million inhabitants. To suggest that all of those people are American because they all subscribe to the same characteristic which you've decided to pull out of the air (and conveniently is something you happen to subscribe to) is lunacy."
    --------------------------------
    I see you really don't understand what goes on in the US.

    We have over 1,000,000 legal immigrants a year, and they are CHOOSING to dome to America. We have 12-20 million illegal immigrants, who CHOOSE to come to America. When someone from Albania or Algeria or Germany moves to the UK, do the vast majority of them CHOOSE to be British? Can you CHOOSE to be French or Welsh or Japanese? How many do?

    By its very nature, America is far more of an idea, and like the Bill of Rights, something a lot of people just don't get.

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  • 69. At 3:02pm on 03 Mar 2011, JunkkMale wrote:

    '1. At 8:43pm on 02 Mar 2011, MagicKirin wrote:
    Your bias is evident.

    2. At 8:53pm on 02 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:
    #1

    As is yours.


    I am canceling my DD to MagicKirin right away! Oh.

    '5. At 9:33pm on 02 Mar 2011, Ad

    Stone me, set up a seance and dial Turing. Actually, don't, I think a robot may have tried to be more credible.

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  • 70. At 3:09pm on 03 Mar 2011, JunkkMale wrote:

    '20. At 00:04am on 03 Mar 2011, Scott0962 wrote:
    re. #17. At 11:43pm on 02 Mar 2011, HabitualHero wrote:
    I don't know who the guy in the picture is but if I were american I wouldn't vote for him even if he was holding my family hostage.


    Interesting insight into all the factors that can be applied in the edit suite to help shape a narrative, though.

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  • 71. At 3:47pm on 03 Mar 2011, Marnip wrote:

    68. At 3:02pm on 03 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote:

    "I see you really don't understand what goes on in the US."

    Yet another person who needs to get over themselves - you do not live in an incomprehensible country. Please, the US is no harder to understand than any country. It has a relatively short history, a similar legal system to ours in the UK, the same language - perhaps you talk to too many stupid people.

    Or, perhaps when you come someone who doesn't think America is anything more than another nation in a world full of nations, and really isn't anything special, you assume they "just don't get it"? Possibility? I think so.

    "We have 12-20 million illegal immigrants, who CHOOSE to come to America."

    How does that make America an idea?

    "When someone from Albania or Algeria or Germany moves to the UK, do the vast majority of them CHOOSE to be British?"

    Again...how does that have any bearing on whether America is an idea or not?

    "Can you CHOOSE to be French or Welsh or Japanese? How many do?"

    Again...how does that have any bearing on whether America is an idea or not?

    Basically, as I mentioned above, all you're really saying is that if I don't think America is the greatest country ever there ever, ever has been, and can never be surpassed, and does only lovely things, and won the Second World War alone, and is so free and lovely and advanced...then I "just don't get it".

    Once more I say - get over yourselves. You're a country that exists based upon advancements other groups of people made long before the USA was founded - like every country. Not special.

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  • 72. At 3:49pm on 03 Mar 2011, chronophobe wrote:

    re: 65 oldloadr

    BHO was running for the presidency almost since he was potty trained. Once he got it (by lying about what he would do different from McCain) he doesn't appear to know what to do with it.

    You righty guys need to get your narrative straight: either he is a Machiavellian socialist with a radical reform agenda, or he is a political dilettante without a clue.

    Claiming he is both at the same time seems a bit silly.

    Even though I didn't care for a lot he did, policy wise, I have to respect Bill Clinton's ability to connect to the average guy/gal.

    Oh yeah. Especially the gals ... .

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  • 73. At 3:52pm on 03 Mar 2011, chronophobe wrote:

    Kansas Curmudgeon: your link above went duff. Is this the article?

    Some info on Harvey here.

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  • 74. At 3:53pm on 03 Mar 2011, Marnip wrote:

    68. At 3:02pm on 03 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote:

    "By its very nature, America is far more of an idea, and like the Bill of Rights, something a lot of people just don't get."

    Missed this little gem - do you really think the Bill of Rights is a perplexing document? Maybe I'm just not a general window-licker, but I reckon most people can come to terms with the point, relevance and structure of the Bill of Rights.

    I think you should stop discussing the nuances of American political history with the poor foreign people you meet on the street asking for change. You'll find the rest of us get it, and just don't care that much.

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  • 75. At 4:13pm on 03 Mar 2011, champagne_charlie wrote:

    #68

    "We have over 1,000,000 legal immigrants a year, and they are CHOOSING to dome to America. We have 12-20 million illegal immigrants, who CHOOSE to come to America. When someone from Albania or Algeria or Germany moves to the UK, do the vast majority of them CHOOSE to be British"


    In 2009 200,000 people were granted British citizenship, 190,000 were also given the right to settle. What their motivations are I couldnt say, but they werent dragged in by their hair thats for sure. As for those that choose to live elsewhere, I couldnt care less.

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  • 77. At 4:27pm on 03 Mar 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    · 72. At 3:49pm on 03 Mar 2011, chronophobe wrote:
    “re: 65 oldloadr

    BHO was running for the presidency almost since he was potty trained. Once he got it (by lying about what he would do different from McCain) he doesn't appear to know what to do with it.

    You righty guys need to get your narrative straight: either he is a Machiavellian socialist with a radical reform agenda, or he is a political dilettante without a clue. “

    Agreed. I've noticed this before. Right-wingers – or indeed knuckle-dragging right-wingers, as I believe oldloadr described himself – will simultaneously insist that Obama is an incompetent novice who knows nothing and achieves nothing, and in the next breath insist that with eg 'Obamacare’ he has ruined the USA and/or is turning the USA into the USSR.

    Claiming he is both incompetent and at the same time able to introduce sweeping changes seems a bit silly.

    ”Even though I didn't care for a lot he did, policy wise, I have to respect Bill Clinton's ability to connect to the average guy/gal.

    Oh yeah. Especially the gals ... .”


    Genuine LOL!

    I assume you remember the old one. The news anchor who says ‘We asked 1,000 women, ‘Would you sleep with Bill Clinton?’. 90% of them replied, ‘never again’....

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  • 78. At 4:39pm on 03 Mar 2011, diverticulosis wrote:

    77. At 4:27pm on 03 Mar 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:
    "Agreed. I've noticed this before. Right-wingers – or indeed knuckle-dragging right-wingers, as I believe oldloadr described himself – will simultaneously insist that Obama is an incompetent novice who knows nothing and achieves nothing, and in the next breath insist that with eg 'Obamacare’ he has ruined the USA and/or is turning the USA into the USSR.

    Claiming he is both incompetent and at the same time able to introduce sweeping changes seems a bit silly. "

    Ahh, nothing new. The left had proclaimed Bush2 and ignorant monkey that stole his way into Yale, and then at the same time he was an evil tactician who was out to make the US an imperial colonial power by stealing all the worlds oil.

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  • 79. At 4:40pm on 03 Mar 2011, Simon21 wrote:

    66. At 2:09pm on 03 Mar 2011, Nostrano wrote:

    We are living in a dangerous epoch. It seems to me that so far (which is already a considerable period) Obama hasn't proved himself on the international scene. He seems to have avoided all occasions to do so, other than follow through obligations that he could do nothing about changing, even though he did try to make ridiculous limitations which only represent clear signals to the Taliban of his lack of determination.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Yeah but one doesn't get the overwhelming impression that the US electorate, in the middle of a recession, is wildly keen for its president to get it committed to more foreign adventures.

    In fact one gets the definite impression that the Taliban matters vastly less to most Americans than their mortgage repayments and job security.


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  • 80. At 4:43pm on 03 Mar 2011, andyparsonsga wrote:

    3. At 9:18pm on 02 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    "MM wrote-

    "It would be deeply weird to make a big announcement abroad, but she [Palin] is the biggest tease of the lot, seemingly on a mission to keep us all guessing."

    Some find her more comically entertaining then mystifying. The television series, Sarah Palin's Alaska was a wonderful farce to watch this season.

    Palin loves the adoration of her fans and the money their adoration puts in her pocket. She would be a fool to take a pay-cut as President while her brand is still hot. But, of course, taking a pay-cut and risking the loss of adoration from her infatuated fan-base would be one of those, "deeply weird" events she has demonstrated to the electorate in the past.

    Take cover, America! Loose cannon on the deck!"


    Palin was an extremely popular Governor of Alaska, known to her constituents as a bipartisan reformer who championed corruption free government. Once she became McCain’s running mate the media turned her into a moose eating, wolf hunting, gun toting, makeup wearing idiot. When they aren’t mangling facts, the press does their best to undermine Palin’s accomplishments. So called “reputable news outlets” have reported that she didn’t sell her predecessor’s jet, didn’t actually stop the “Bridge to Nowhere”, inflated the importance of the natural gas pipeline she had championed, cut funding for teenage mothers and children with special needs, never held a press conference during the presidential elections, tried to have just creationism taught in schools and tried to have books banned from public libraries – all of it a complete and utter load of bull!

    The left launched their “Sarah Palin is Stupid” campaign the day after her nomination acceptance speech. Here was a pretty, smart, witty, confident and bold woman with the ability to inspire and fire up the conservative base and independent voters; she was the Left's worst nightmare. The only thing which could have made it worse in their eyes would have been if she was black!

    According to a Wall Street Journal article by Monica Langley on November 5th 2008:

    “The Obama campaign watched her rousing performance at the Republican convention and focus groups assembled to test the voter reaction. Obama advisers couldn’t believe what they were hearing. “Sarah Palin is one of us” was an oft heard refrain. “She can help John McCain shake up Washington” was another common theme.

    On the weekly strategy call with Democratic senators after the Republican convention in early September, Obama Chief of Staff Jim Messina, “Let me walk you through this week’s events”. He was cut off by angry senators calling for a more aggressive response to the Republican running-mate pick: “Go after Palin.” “Define Palin”. “Make the race about Palin.” Mr. Messina was startled by the nervousness in the party ranks.”

    The assault on Palin's intellect intensifies daily. Every word out of Palin's mouth is dissected and placed under a microscope and then, viewed through a lens tainted with the paradigm that “Palin is stupid”. Who amongst us could withstand our every utterance judged with such extreme scrutiny?

    Frustratingly, the facts completely prove otherwise. Palin was recognized and lauded as an extremely successful Governor.

    The October 15th 2007 edition of Newsweek ran an article about Janet Napolitano, governor of Arizona and Sarah Palin governor of Alaska It said:

    “Governors like Napolitano, 49 and Palin, 43, are making their mark with a pragmatic, propartisan approach to solving problems, a style that works especially well with the large numbers of independent voters in their respective states”. The article went further, “In Alaska Palin is challenging the dominant, sometimes corrupting, role of oil companies in the state’s political culture. Although she has been in office less than a year, Palin, too, earns high marks from lawmakers on the other side of the aisle.”

    Exactly what had Obama achieved qualifying him to run the country? Absolutely nothing. Obama was a community organizer. He taught people they were entitled victims of an unfair America and how to extort freebies from government and business. He served only 144 days in the senate before running for president.

    The media took a man who had never run a business, state or donut shop and convinced millions of Americans he was a political leader unlike any before him. Obama was the smartest guy in the room; eminently qualified to run America and probably the world.

    The liberal media exploited Obama's race to get their liberal black guy elected. They deemed any attempt to subject Obama to the normal vetting procedures for one applying for the position of Leader of the Free World to be racist. Even Obama's anti-America associates like Bill Ayers, crooks like Tony Rezko, corrupt organizations like ACORN and his racist pastor of 20 years did not matter.

    Obama's presidential qualifications were that he is half black (just for reference and balance, the other half is white) and liberal. This won him 100% of the liberal media’s support and 96% of the black vote.

    Remember when Obama said America had 57 states? The media jumped immediately to his defense and screamed, “Obama was tired”. Imagine if Palin had said the same thing. The liberal media would have berated us with at least three days of coverage of the story and every report would parrot the same mantra, “This woman is an idiot, how could anyone vote to have her in the Whitehouse?”

    With fake Greek columns on the set behind him, extra reverb on his voice and a teleprompter, the democrats with liberal media support branded Obama as “The Messiah”. And, as Oprah screamed out on her supposedly apolitical and unbiased show “He is the One!”

    Meanwhile the reaction to Sarah Palin has been unrelentingly visceral and nasty. Without the special effects loved by so many politicians, Sarah Palin has proven that she epitomizes everything feminists claim to wish for all women. She successfully ran against a corrupt entrenched member of her own party, stood up against oil company corruption and lobbyist influence, turned her state’s economy around without raising taxes on its citizenry (in fact every Alaskan citizen received payment from the state’s surplus each year), held office as Chief Executive with an unprecedented 80% plus popularity rate and has stood up consistently for Constitutionality. She has achieved extraordinary success both in and outside of the home. And yet, Palin is successfully branded by the media in the minds of many, as an idiotic, gun toting diva.

    This is not about endorsing Palin for President; I am simply attempting to illustrate the media's power to shape an image and, unfortunately, public opinion. But clearly, Palin's presidential qualifications far exceed Obama's.

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  • 81. At 4:52pm on 03 Mar 2011, Oldloadr wrote:

    72. At 3:49pm on 03 Mar 2011, chronophobe wrote:
    You righty guys need to get your narrative straight: either he is a Machiavellian socialist with a radical reform agenda, or he is a political dilettante without a clue.
    __________________________________________________

    It’s simple really: there is an ongoing debate within the conservative camp as to whether BHO is evil or a buffoon. Coming out of one of the 2 most corrupt political machines in the country doesn’t give us enough of a clue since he could just be the charming face that a puppet-master somewhere in Chi-town wants us to see (pay no attention to that man behind the curtain); or he could have actually engineered his own meteoric rise to power while riding roughshod over many less devious Dems e.g. Hillary Clinton and Bill Richardson.

    So, I’m afraid, it’s not that any one of us knuckle-dragging right-wing Neanderthals can’t make up our minds, we are just allowing you lefties who we disagree with on just about everything beyond the color of grass to see our honest and open debate on what is wrong with the current POTUS. Oh, no need to thank us; we just think it the fair thing to do. Now, when one of us goes about attacking The One, you will know which faction of the right that person falls in. It’ll make it easier for you to form a response that will keep the debate coherent. After all, it would do you no good to try to convince a righty that BHO isn’t stupid when that particular Righty thinks he is quite brilliant… and evil as home-made sin. Conversely, don’t try to tell someone that BHO isn’t evil when that person thinks he is just a normal slightly flawed human who doesn’t have enough sense to pour pi$$ out of a boot without instruction coming up on a teleprompter.




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  • 82. At 4:59pm on 03 Mar 2011, Oldloadr wrote:

    77. At 4:27pm on 03 Mar 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:
    I assume you remember the old one. The news anchor who says ‘We asked 1,000 women, ‘Would you sleep with Bill Clinton?’. 90% of them replied, ‘never again’....
    __________________________________________________

    LOL... and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... ;)

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  • 83. At 5:01pm on 03 Mar 2011, BluesBerry wrote:

    I don't mean to be impolite; I certainly do not mean to be derogatory, but if these persons are the best persons that Republicans can come up with, the United States is far bigger trouble than I thought.
    The Republicans might as well vote for Obama; at least then they could blame him for everything that goes wrong most especially the bankruptcy of the United States of America.

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  • 84. At 5:19pm on 03 Mar 2011, Oldloadr wrote:

    83. At 5:01pm on 03 Mar 2011, BluesBerry wrote:
    The Republicans might as well vote for Obama; at least then they could blame him for everything that goes wrong most especially the bankruptcy of the United States of America.
    __________________________________________

    Don't hold your breath on that one. I would vote for a yeller dawg before I'd ever vote for The One and I know folks who bought the hopey-changey thing the first time around who have already expressed the same feeling for 2012. Sometimes, "Better the devil you know" doesn't cut it.

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  • 85. At 5:20pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #77

    John_From_Dublin


    I hadn't heard that 'old' one. I sure enjoyed it. Funny and genuinely clever.

    BTW I hear there are people who get together and read the constitution once a week.

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  • 86. At 5:31pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #78

    diverticulosis

    You wrote: "Ahh, nothing new. The left had proclaimed Bush2 and ignorant monkey that stole his way into Yale, and then at the same time he was an evil tactician who was out to make the US an imperial colonial power by stealing all the worlds oil.

    Quite so. They are just a ridiculous left as they are on the right.

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  • 87. At 5:37pm on 03 Mar 2011, Oldloadr wrote:

    85. At 5:20pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:
    BTW I hear there are people who get together and read the constitution once a week.
    ______________________________________
    I'm just glad that Congress finally read it. Maybe they will restrain themselves in the future, Insha'Allah.

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  • 88. At 5:39pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    # 80

    andyparsonsga

    You could go on for another 2000 lines, but I doubt even the clever, evil left-wing press can make someone seem stupid who isn't, any more than they can make someone seem smart who isn't.

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  • 89. At 5:45pm on 03 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    Don’t over romanticize the TEA party like they do.

    Notice no one wants to admit they are made up libertarians who vote Republican when their candidate is off the ballot. Same for the Constitutional party. It is the same old group with a new name every now and then. Barry Goldwater will take you back to the 60’s when the Pubs lost the bible belt vote and have been painting conservatives into a moral corner ever since. The shades of grey persist that the TEAs are PUBs, even here. Honesty is not their long suit.

    The Birchers, i.e. John Birch Society is still here and are the largest foundation of the TEAs. I see where Dr. Detroit wishes to continue the myth that the TEAs are a product of the republicans. The ‘clubs’ he mentions are denominations. Palin’s group (Bullinger is rolling in his grave) and the LDS or Mormons are just a part of the picture. That was the national grass roots as they call it, but not a universal grass roots movement. The movement excludes outsiders. It is the malcontent religious right that believes God puts people in office, except when it is not their candidate. These freaks want Church and State.

    Palin believes by some prophecy over her she is on a mission from God. It is just not clear to everyone which god she speaks of because God would not need our puny votes if office was by divine right. The world so much desires a King and spiritually guided political perfection. Careful what you pray for.

    So the term grassroots is hardly a proper word to use to explain the development of this movement that went among the Pubs and took vital demographic information as one of the boys prior to the election. It does not take a degree from five community colleges to understand that the Pubs have been desperately trying to recover the TEAs under their banner and to see the results on the hill of their failure.

    The right is divided more so than ever in a struggle to seize control of the reins. The effort to capture the bible belt has spawned a new conservative faction that is by the book, not by the book. When the lecterns and pulpits suggest I should vote a particular way based on their mishandling of the Word of God, I go the other way. If Balaam were alive he would on book tour too.


    The republicans are breaking away from the TEAs and are drawing a line in the sand. There is no more time to recover from this infighting for 2012. The best man for the Job as tapped out by a FOX commentator was immediately called a RINO and conservative heads were exploding. 2012 is good place to dead-end a real run for the office by any conservative, and they are not exactly eager to take ownership of the world wide economic bomb they dropped. Who really wants to throw good money after bad?

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  • 90. At 5:54pm on 03 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote:

    74. At 3:53pm on 03 Mar 2011, Marnip wrote:

    "Missed this little gem - do you really think the Bill of Rights is a perplexing document? Maybe I'm just not a general window-licker, but I reckon most people can come to terms with the point, relevance and structure of the Bill of Rights."

    Since you are someone who is not familiar with the issues at hand, I will recap a couple of them.

    In the US, the government cannot stops newspapers from running stories about trials. In the US the government cannot have people arrested or fined for voicing opinions that some government board finds "offensive". Many Europeans I have had lengthy discussions with universally find it appalling, and wonder why people in the US are not arrested for saying things they deem offensive about what ever group. Yesterday's 8-1 ruling by the Supreme court is an example. Those nut jobs from Westboro might be disturbed and perverted, but they have right to show everyone that they are just that. If I said that about a group of protesters in York or Guilford, I could get arrested, depending on what they were protesting (i.e., Muslims demanding Sharia law, I go to jail; Tea Party members complaining about government intrusion, they go to jail).

    I had Dutch and Germans tell me that murdering an offensive cartoonist was understandable, and they never "should have allowed the cartoons to be published". Who is "they"? So, no, many of the Europeans I have met don't get the First Amendment.

    The Second Amendment? In the VERY FOUNDATIONAL DOCUMENT OF THE UNITED STATES, it says I can own a rifle. The government cannot prevent law abiding citizens from owning a gun. You think the vast majority of Europeans understand, and BELIEVE, that is a fundamental right?

    Fourth Amendment? No warrantless searches (unless of course you are trying to board a plane)? In over half of Europe, that was not even a remote concept until 20 years ago, and you expect me to believe that EVERYONE expects the government to get a judge to sign off before coming into someone's home? Heck, England has almost as many CCTVs as people. where the heck is all that going? Even liberals in the US freak out about that. Well, most of them do.

    Tenth Amendment? If it is not allowed, it is up to the states? How normal is that in Europe?

    Typically, (though not universally) I have found that Europeans expect the government have its fingers everywhere, and are kind of resigned to the interference.

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  • 91. At 6:02pm on 03 Mar 2011, mscracker wrote:

    5. At 9:33pm on 02 Mar 2011, Ad wrote:
    "1" The BBC is not on the left. It is not privately or commercially funded and therefore has no need to pander to commercial interests, rich foreign owners, or shareholders. That to me is a great advantage."

    **************************
    I really do admire the BBC & the quality of the news available on their site, but politically speaking, I would beg to differ.I do think the tone leans to the left.This is however coming from an American.
    Supposedly, NPR (National Public Radio) here in the US is not commercially funded either,but it's no secret that NPR tilts to an acute left angle.At least from my conservative point of reference.

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  • 92. At 6:13pm on 03 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    As for the BBC, I LOVE MY BBC!
    I am an American.


    I get representation without taxation or a fee.

    Thank you Ad for explaining the funding nuances of the BBC. Our own NPR is under attack and is officially not getting any money from Uncle Sam. It is funded with donations and personal grants and trusts.

    I just hope my starboard-home friends get the opportunity to listen to A Prairie Home Companion for some good humor at our expense. PHC is a radio show. http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/

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  • 93. At 6:14pm on 03 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote:

    83. At 5:01pm on 03 Mar 2011, BluesBerry wrote:

    I don't mean to be impolite; I certainly do not mean to be derogatory, but if these persons are the best persons that Republicans can come up with, the United States is far bigger trouble than I thought.
    The Republicans might as well vote for Obama; at least then they could blame him for everything that goes wrong most especially the bankruptcy of the United States of America.
    ---------------------------------

    Ain't that the truth, and I am a Republican.

    Gingrich (who is generally hated by the left, which means he is pretty smart) see long term better than most, but he has a LOT of personal baggage.

    Gov. Christie of New Jersey became governor in 2009, so he would have the same "level of experience" that Obama had (actually more, since he has to work daily, and not just show up 70 days a year like Obama did), and he has the courage that most politicians lack. I even saw a union agitator that he challanged interviewed later and she was impressed that he answered her - she didn't like the answers, but he did not sugar coat it either.

    Palin - No.

    Romney - Probably would make an excellent President, not the presense that some others have.

    Santorum - No - but ideal of Secretary of HHS in a Republican administration.

    Pawlenty, Jindal - Same problem as Romney.

    Hilary Clinton - if only.

    Ryan, Cantor, Bachman, Haley (SC) - too young - think 2016 or 2020.

    The question will be, who frames the discussion. McCain could not, but Bush did, even with the press going after him.

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  • 94. At 6:35pm on 03 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 80 andyparsonsga-

    "The left launched their “Sarah Palin is Stupid” campaign the day after her nomination acceptance speech. Here was a pretty, smart, witty, confident and bold woman with the ability to inspire and fire up the conservative base and independent voters; she was the Left's worst nightmare. The only thing which could have made it worse in their eyes would have been if she was black!"

    As an entertainer I won't argue that Sarah Palin is a, "pretty, smart, witty, confident and bold woman...". As a politician she has the amazing ability to continually pile political liabilities onto her plate.

    If Palin were to run for President in 2012 we will be constantly reminded of the fact she stepped down from office as Alaska Governor in mid-term. I think this will be a very deep pitfall for her to climb out of in a race for the Presidency. It will naturally lead to the question, "Will Sarah Palin bail-out of the Presidency during her term?".

    Mitt Romney's father, George; a very successful and beloved Governor of Michigan who served out two terms in the Governor's office was unseated during the 1972 Republican primary race when he stated he was "brainwashed" into supporting the Vietnam War. He was ripped to shreds in the opinion polls when the term was taken out of context and became the focal point against him. The electorate shouldn't elect a man who admitted being "brainwashed" into the Oval Office, became the mantra against his nomination.

    Palin's television series opened up many more liabilities that will be used against her in a 'no-holds-barred' national political campaign. She continually berates the press for 'attacking' her children; yet she continually trots them out in front of the cameras, exposing them to possible ridicule. That can be played against her 'family values' preaching.

    Anyone who has hunted, camped, fished, climbed a mountain, or any of the other 'Alaskan' activities Palin demonstrated during her series was able to see her ineptness as she struggled with most of these outdoor activities much like a novice; not as an experienced outdoorsperson. These things will be played against her in a national political campaign.

    The list of political liabilities, brought on by her own doing, goes on at length. In effect, Sarah Palin has become unelectable; yet she still can be a valuable tool for the Republican Party, if they can get her to play a more competent role in their camp. However, all things indicate at this juncture in her political career, Palin is a loose cannon.

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  • 95. At 6:47pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #87

    Oldloadr

    I imagine more than a few republicans benefited from reading it. And, it was nice of the democrats to help them out. It showed a certain esprit on their part. :)

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  • 96. At 6:49pm on 03 Mar 2011, rodidog wrote:

    80. andyparsonsga,

    I remember watching Sarah Palin on a CNBC interview before she was considered as a running mate for McCain. She talked about Alaska and the future of Energy while safeguarding the environment. I thought she came off rather well and seemed very knowledgeable on the subject for a politician. During the Republican convention she gave a great speech that galvanized Republicans and made democrats very nervous. At the time, her pick seemed inspired and brilliant. Democrats had to destroy her image or face the possibility of losing the majority of women voters. The media was already invested in the idea of the first black President and chose to de-invasive his negatives while accentuating hers. At times I was a little confused about who was on top of the ticket, her or McCain. Unfortunately, and for whatever reason, she stumbled in several interviews and gave credibility to those attacking her.

    The fact that the media was biased against her is not news. Any Republican candidate is treated this way by the media, although the degree in which they went after Palin is unprecedented IMO. When you realize that many people confuse her for Tina Fey, you begin to see just how badly she failed in dealing with the media. I agree that she was and continues to be treated unfairly, but she only has herself to blame for not rising to the occasion. Had she been on top of her game during these interviews she would be our current President……er, I mean Vice President.

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  • 97. At 6:49pm on 03 Mar 2011, commissioner wrote:

    Palin/Sheen 2012...enough said.

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  • 98. At 6:56pm on 03 Mar 2011, champagne_charlie wrote:

    #93

    escapedfromny;

    I wouldn't get too cocky about American freedoms if I was you:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_International

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  • 99. At 6:58pm on 03 Mar 2011, Oldloadr wrote:

    95. At 6:47pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:
    #87

    Oldloadr

    I imagine more than a few republicans benefited from reading it. And, it was nice of the democrats to help them out. It showed a certain esprit on their part. :)
    ___________________________________________

    Absolutely! I did not differentiate between Dems or GOP in congress. They have both forgot from whence we came and how we got where we are today. I am glad that both parties in congress have been spanked by the electorate in recent elections, the GOP in '06 and '08 and the Dems in '10. I live in hope that if the electorate can keep at it, we can remind the political class that they live to serve the Constitution and us, not themselves.

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  • 100. At 7:03pm on 03 Mar 2011, rodidog wrote:

    88. d_m,

    “You could go on for another 2000 lines, but I doubt even the clever, evil left-wing press can make someone seem stupid who isn't, any more than they can make someone seem smart who isn't.”

    I give you, as exhibit A and B, and in order, George Bush and Joe Biden.

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  • 101. At 7:20pm on 03 Mar 2011, Mirino wrote:

    79. Simon21

    That's understandable, on first reflection, but we would all think vastly differently if Obama had had his own way and the US and Nato pulled out in August this year, allowing the Taliban a free hand to retake Afghanistan, then Pakistan, then thus fully nuclear armed, the whole world.
    Considerations of job security, mortgages, etc., would have no comparative weight at a time when the whole world could then end up at ransom, if not in the worst possible peril in the history of civilisation.

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  • 102. At 7:25pm on 03 Mar 2011, andyparsonsga wrote:

    56. At 10:54am on 03 Mar 2011, Marnip wrote:
    31. At 03:16am on 03 Mar 2011, CuriousAmerican wrote:

    "In order to really understand us (which I seriously doubt many liberals do) you must understand a central fact of what it to be an American....One is not an american by birth...one is an American by belief in an idea..."

    Seriously - get over yourself. You're American if you're born in America (unless you're half black and running for president, where that doesn't appear to be enough for some right whingers).

    It's a country with over 300 million inhabitants. To suggest that all of those people are American because they all subscribe to the same characteristic which you've decided to pull out of the air (and conveniently is something you happen to subscribe to) is lunacy.

    Not to try to start a Britain Vs. America: Who's Better? competition as these things often devolve into, but America is founded on principles largely developed by British (and other) philosophers, using the English language and common law legal system. If being American were even simply an idea, it would likely be a Euro-British one.

    But as I said, stop over-romanticising what it is to be born in a country through pure chance.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I would actually say that in this CuriousAmerican is correct and perhaps your view is indicative of many Europeans who have not, and will likely never understand the American psyche.

    I was born and raised in the UK and have tracked my British ancestery back over 600 years, however I found myself more and more at odds with the overriding societally corrosive liberal mentality that has become increasingly prevelent throughout British society over the last three decades or so.

    Exactly the same can be said of the many millions of other immigrants who come here and subscribe to a totally different social and political structure and attitude and proudly call themselves Americans.

    Although you are correct that American common law bares many resemblances to English common law, that is hardly surprising as both are based on "People's Law" or "Natural Law", which in itself was derived from ancient Hebrew law. If you take to the time to read the many writings of the Founding Fathers you will find that rather than them being influenced by "British Philosophers" their largest influence came from Marcus Tullius Cicero. They saw in Cicero's writings the necessary ingredients for the model society they eventually hoped to build.

    As to your comment "If America was an just an idea, it would be a Euro-British one", you fail to understand that the vast majority of immigrants to the US left their countries of birth to escape the "Euro-British" social and political systems. Now why would they do that if the "American Idea" wasn't totally different from that that they already had?

    Rather than an "accident of birth", America and being an American is very much an idea and a philosophy that permeates everday life. Americans are different in their attitudes, suspicious view of large government and desire for personal freedom, and I for one, thank God for it, and am proud to be part of that "idea and ideal"!

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  • 103. At 7:35pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #99

    Oldlodar

    I believe most politicians know why they are elected, understand the constitution, and try to do a good job. I may not always agree with what they do, but I'm not prepared to villify them just because they have different views and goals than I do. I'm sure you feel much the same.

    I just hope they find reasonable ways to do what needs to be done. Too bad they can't pass a law to make people stop buying so much junk. IMO less consumption would be a good thing.

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  • 104. At 7:48pm on 03 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 105. At 7:56pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #100

    rodiodog

    Good point. However, I disagree. I think both men are smart. The press haven't convinced me either way about either of them. What I think happens is the media on the left and the right each has a base of people who respond to personal attacks and they pander to them--along with the general nastiness of american politics. But I'll bet the media didn't make up your mind for you. I've read your posts and they are thoughtful and informed. Nobody is telling you how to think. That's probably true for most of us.

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  • 106. At 8:04pm on 03 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 89 Lord Jimbo-

    "I see where Dr. Detroit wishes to continue the myth that the TEAs are a product of the republicans."

    Under the category, "Politics makes for strange bedfellows" there are ties between the Libertarian Party and the Republican Party as it regards the TEA Party movement. The current Tea Party (there have been other groups identifying with the Boston Tea Party) has it's origins in the 2008 Ron Paul run for the Republican Primary nomination for President. Thus the Libertarian/Republican Party ties.

    A group calling itself, "Students for Ron Paul" transformed in 2009 after the lost attempt at the nomination into, "Young Americans for Liberty" [YAL]. The YAL began organizing 'grass-roots' groups on college campuses. Young, Republican activists (Many with ties to the YAL and it's libertarian beliefs) also began organizing 'grass-roots' groups throughout the U.S. in 2009 which became lumped together as the "TEA Party". The majority of these independent, 'grass-roots', groups enjoyed the media attention given to their type of political 'club' by allowing themselves to be seen in a loose association by identifying with the generic title "Tea Party Movement". It has a nice patriotic, romantic ring to it.

    I have studied close to 3,000 'TEA-type' groups across the nation. The demographics vary widely, to say the least. Everything from militia movements; John Birchers; evangelical movements; libertarians; secessionists; to ,rather, mainstream Republicans. The largest majority of the groups have definite, traceable ties to Republican Party activists as their originators and organizers.

    I suspect the motives of the Republican Party activists, who have been very busy organizing on the local level, are self serving. I keep seeing the same sort of motivation I once saw when young, Democratic Party activists organized for the McGovern campaign. They sought to gain power within the Democratic Party to bring about a major reorganization of the party structure. Something they did accomplish, much to the detriment of the Democratic Party, in many ways.

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  • 107. At 8:07pm on 03 Mar 2011, Oldloadr wrote:

    103. At 7:35pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:
    I'm sure most have good intentions when they first get there, but the list of fiscal FUBARs that both parties cooperated to produce is depressing:
    1. Social Security is going broke.
    2. Medicare and Medicaid are both unsustainable.
    3. Besides the equipment they ask for, the services are often forced to by equipment they don’t need (example: extra C17s to keep the line open in California) or to keep obsolete equipment operating just to support a particular constituency (example: F-111s kept at Canon AFB, NM for 10 years after the USAF wanted to send them to the boneyard).
    4. Multiple federal agencies overlapping and still not producing quality results. Did you know that in the US, 190 proof grain alcohol is not considered HAZMAT, but Diesel fuel is; even though 190 proof alcohol is more volatile? Why? Because DOT regulates transport of Diesel, but the BATFE regulates transport of all consumable alcohol, even if its intended purpose is not for refreshment.

    As the old Baptist preachers used to say about good intentions: “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.”

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  • 108. At 8:28pm on 03 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 107 Oldloadr-

    "Multiple federal agencies overlapping and still not producing quality results. Did you know that in the US, 190 proof grain alcohol is not considered HAZMAT, but Diesel fuel is; even though 190 proof alcohol is more volatile? Why? Because DOT regulates transport of Diesel, but the BATFE regulates transport of all consumable alcohol, even if its intended purpose is not for refreshment."

    By golly, Oldloadr. What we need here is a Bureau of Departmental Overlap! ;-)

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  • 109. At 8:32pm on 03 Mar 2011, The Cool Ruler Rides Again wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 110. At 8:49pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    # 107

    Oldloadr

    The thing is, that's the system. It's not a perfect system and can't be. Yet, while no system is perfect, ours at least is self-correcting. Yeah there is waste, but often well intentioned. Like the spare engine for the, what is it, the F-35. So some congressmen and senators are trying to provide jobs and money to their constituents and states. Isn't that partly why we send them there--to ensure that the people back home get their fair share of the national pie. I know the pie is gone, hell, we all know the pie is gone, but we still want a piece of it. I doubt we've heard the last of the Air Force tanker contract. Some states won on that one and some lost and I doubt the losing congressional delegations are going to role over quietly. Of course, I've been surprised before.

    The system works, it just leaves you scratching your head sometimes.

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  • 111. At 8:56pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #108

    publiusdetroit


    I kind of like your idea. I think it has real merit. An agency that monitors other agencies to ensure that they are doing their jobs, not doing the same jobs, and are doing their jobs reasonably efficiently.

    The Secretary of Overlap. Can we afford it? Can we afford not to?

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  • 112. At 9:00pm on 03 Mar 2011, mscracker wrote:

    @ 96.rodidog :
    Thank you. Good post!

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  • 113. At 9:05pm on 03 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    Escapefromny; is that you Ann Kingmaker?

    Gov. Christie may be a smooth talker but do you really think 2012 will be a wise choice for him to run based on his experience credentials alone? 2015 would be much better timing for him. Only the media will vet a candidate for the kind of rubbish that could be a weakness in their image. Why not choose Palin because she commands the most popularity, if popularity will win the race. She has sufficient experience according to her followers and more than the President in their perceptions. She has momentum.

    Christie: I heard the same line on a FOX clip where Ann Coulter is facing off with Hannity. The response was all over the net that both Ann and Christie were RINOs. All any candidate on the right has to do is document Christie’s RINOism in the primaries and he loses the support of the independents on the right. Is it worth the gamble and expense when in 2008 Limbaugh was telling his listeners to Vote for Hillary during the primaries?

    The TEAs want to run their own candidates and they will because they are not republicans and want the hill for themselves. Would you really expect all those campaign dollars to do any good for a republican except for the media who will benefit from the adverts? This election will be damage control for conservatives and it will take more than another season to get sorted out.

    Christie would be better served as a strong Governor than a weakened selection on a ballot no matter how much the media wants him to run. Palin is the preferred quiter-governor. Besides, if Obama really is the Antichrist as FOX has declared, who can else but God can stop him and why would they try? The Antichrist will suffer the loss of a right eye and one of his arms will be withered. So it is written and so it shall be done!

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  • 114. At 9:22pm on 03 Mar 2011, CuriousAmerican wrote:

    102. At 7:25pm on 03 Mar 2011, andyparsonsga wrote:
    ..............Rather than an "accident of birth", America and being an American is very much an idea and a philosophy that permeates everday life. Americans are different in their attitudes, suspicious view of large government and desire for personal freedom, and I for one, thank God for it, and am proud to be part of that "idea and ideal"!

    ------------------------------------------------

    Our common belief in a better tomorrow is what makes America special in my humble opinion. It doesn't matter where your from, your family pedigree, your education, your skin color or how much money you have to start with. In my experience, in America you are judged on your own earned merits and results. We love the underdog and cheer for the little guy.

    We don't trust ANYONE with power, especially people who want power(which describes 99% of government and politicians) This is healthy and realistic considering the history of man.

    In my experience, the real secret weapon of American success are the First Generation folks that come with a dream and a ton of guts. They are the "special forces" of human beings. They are special among all the world, the salt of the earth and true heart of America. These folks are the reason we all love our forefathers so much because of the sacrifice, determination, hard work and their very lives they laid down for us future generations.

    Yes, we americans are different than most and many believe we are special, but not because we are born some place special....but because we believe in something special....


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  • 115. At 9:36pm on 03 Mar 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #113
    , Lord Jimbo wrote:
    Escapefromny; is that you Ann Kingmaker?

    Gov. Christie may be a smooth talker but do you really think 2012 will be a wise choice for him to run based on his experience credentials alone? 2015 would be much better timing for him. Only the media will vet a candidate for the kind of rubbish that could be a weakness in their image. Why not choose Palin because she commands the most popularity, if popularity will win the race. She has sufficient experience according to her followers and more than the President in their perceptions. She has momentum.


    ___________

    christie has painted himself out because he too many quotes saying he is not running nor redy to be president.

    He is out as for Palin that is the Dems wish.

    even if she had more qualification and experience than Obama in 08

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  • 116. At 9:46pm on 03 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 117. At 9:55pm on 03 Mar 2011, mscracker wrote:

    "27. At 01:54am on 03 Mar 2011, InColorado wrote:
    Hello Mark Mardell ! I think you are doing a great job. I agree that the BBC has no political bias. It is refreshing to have a place that you can trust for news about what is happening throughout the world.
    And I must admit that even my far right friends are aware of how biased Fox News is. I mean really, everyone knows that Fox is actually just entertainment for a small vocal portion of our society.
    As I see it, It really is not going to matter who the republicans choose for a candidate, no one stands a chance against Obama in 2012.
    Thank you for your effort!"
    ****************************************
    I would agree, politics aside, that BBC does a great job.
    And that FOX News is certainly biased-even though I agree with perhaps 90% or more of their bias.
    The other US network news sources, though, are most certainly biased as well but in a different direction.
    FOX News claims to be the most watched news in America right now.It may be entertainment for a "small vocal portion of our society", but apparrently is a news source for a majority of viewers.Whichever, it has the highest number of folks watching it if what FOX News says is true.
    And I personally like Mitt Romney.
    Also, could anyone have picked a less flattering photo of Newt Gingrich?

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  • 118. At 10:10pm on 03 Mar 2011, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:

    Here's some cool breaking news; former Louisiana Gov. Charles "Buddy" Roemer (R)(88-92) has just announced his candidacy for the 2012 presidential race with the creation of an exploratory committee in Baton Rouge.

    He never had much of a national presence compared to former Gov. Edwin Edwards, but he certainly had a reputation for moderation & honesty.

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  • 119. At 10:36pm on 03 Mar 2011, rodidog wrote:

    105 d_m,

    “Good point. However, I disagree. I think both men are smart. The press haven't convinced me either way about either of them.”

    You are right, both men are smart. I was simply offering an example on how our perceptions can be shaped by those who provide us our news.

    “But I'll bet the media didn't make up your mind for you. I've read your posts and they are thoughtful and informed. Nobody is telling you how to think. That's probably true for most of us.”

    You are very kind to say so, thanks. Unfortunately, I am as susceptible to perceptions generated by the news as anyone. I do try to differentiate between a person’s clumsy comments and attributing those comments to their overall intellect. Although, there are occasions one has to wonder.

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  • 120. At 10:49pm on 03 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    re 106: PubliusDetroit;

    I guess by your research on the TEAs I should give air to your qualifications on the topic. Funny how diverse the TEAs are, izzant it? If the TEAs are fundamentally republicans in patriot costumes, then why is John Boehner weeping over their maverick actions and votes on the hill?

    It sounded good but that is the same coup-speak that is volleyed back and forth. The TEAs say they are Republicans when they are put on the ticket, but are they RINOs of a different color? The ‘Pubs say the TEAs are theirs. It seems to be neither. And what of the early front-liners from the Church of Christ or the LDS factions? Too small to mention or notice? Most of the TEAs are the religious right that believe by the verse in Romans 13:1 that God puts politicians in political office. Sorry, but it was the Apostils, Prophets, Evangelists, Teachers and Pastors or the Ministers of Christ that were the context. Another god who said to Jesus “for it is mine to give” in temptation is the maker of wordly power, recognition, self preservation and worship. The TEAs are not republicans as much as republicans wish to think. They are true RR-RINOs.

    See how the TEAs are pointing the boney finger of accusation around? They have god on their side ya know,…it matters not that few know which god they speak of. If their god put their candidates in office, then they should never lose an election. Better yet, they would not need to vote or be involved in politics. Somehow I see their god as a failure and a counterfeit. After a few elections of that nonsense, I would shop around for a new god.

    The religious right better defines the TEAs than any other demographic. All republicans are conservatives but not all conservatives are republicans. There is no unity in the conservative party, just lots and lots of money to spend. People will vote their conscience as before even if it is based on wrong teaching. The republicans are fools if they think they have a monopoly on the conservative or independent vote embodied in the TEAs. 2012 is by far the worst election the ‘Pubs have faced yet. Perhaps with a little intervention we will not need to vote.
    Artorius si viveret si Caesar, ad remum dareris

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  • 121. At 10:49pm on 03 Mar 2011, andyparsonsga wrote:

    88. At 5:39pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:
    # 80

    andyparsonsga

    "You could go on for another 2000 lines, but I doubt even the clever, evil left-wing press can make someone seem stupid who isn't, any more than they can make someone seem smart who isn't."

    And I would imagine that you still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny!

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  • 122. At 11:01pm on 03 Mar 2011, LucyJ wrote:


    Pmk: Interestingly nobody wants to comment on yet another example of a deadly attack on Christians by Muslim fundamentalists.

    [This time in Pakistan (surprise, surprise).]
    ---------
    I will comment...

    From stories like this one about the Christian govt. man who was murdered in Pak and also the story of the American diplomat who is still stuck in jail in Pakistan and they refuse to release, it leads me to the conclusion that in my personal opinion Pakistan is the biggest current hotbed for potential Islamic extremism...

    Of course who knows how many potential Islamic extremists there are across the ME?

    We can't just go around into all these countries arresting ppl, now can we? Course' not...

    We can keep sending drones, but its more complicated and widespread than that..

    President Obama wants to win them over with grand speeches/gestures...

    I think we all know that there is no possible way to win over ppl who have it set in their minds to hate us and r bound and determined to come after us b/c they think it will lead them to Heaven...

    However, for Pakistan we have to look at it differently than the other ME countries b/c Pak has nukes...

    And who knew (I didn't until that story PMK provided from BBC) that insulting Islam in Pakistan coudl lead to death penalty?

    (a whole lot different than good ole' USA where we have freedom of speech)

    Congress, I know u r focused on Libya right now, but you better pay attention to Pakistan, cause' its the next big one...

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  • 123. At 11:25pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    # 119

    Rodiodog


    We're all susceptible some times and some times it's hard not to indulge a bit of humor at someone's expense. And like you, there are sometimes when you have to wonder.

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  • 124. At 11:28pm on 03 Mar 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Jim: All republicans are conservatives but not all conservatives are republicans.
    ------------
    Not true at all...there are some liberal Repubs such as Goldwater, Trump, ect...

    I am Independent as I believe morally in Repub values such as supporting the right to own guns, being against gay marriage and being against illegal immigration/securing our borders, but I also support Dem stance on supporting unions and legalizing marijuana...
    ------------
    Jim: There is no unity in the conservative party, just lots and lots of money to spend.
    -----------
    ALso not true...I know many Repubs who are just struggling to get by since all our industry jobs left...

    Just b/c the politicians are rich does not mean we all r...

    But of course rich is defined in different ways, as well..
    ------------
    Jim: People will vote their conscience as before even if it is based on wrong teaching. The republicans are fools if they think they have a monopoly on the conservative or independent vote embodied in the TEAs. 2012 is by far the worst election the ‘Pubs have faced yet. Perhaps with a little intervention we will not need to vote.
    ------------
    There is no question in my mind that 2008 was the Repubs worse yr ever in election due to the economy folding under Bush and Bush's unresolved wars (many of us thought we would be out b/4 Bush was done like 1st Bush)

    I voted before for Obama, but he did not do what he said he would do and did what he said he wouldn't do, so I only have received pure and total disappointment from Obama (I never thought I woudl miss Bush, but yeah, I do now), which is why I would consider votign for another Dem like Hill, but Obama has already lost my vote...

    (So that's one down from last election)
    (you say one vote doesn't count? hey, they all add up)

    I know a LOT of ppl from the workplace to friends to relatives who have said they woudl not vote for Obama again...

    I can't say he's helped Illinois much since he's left, either, trying to send the Guan bay detainees here when many of us like myself are HIGHLY against bringing them here on American soil, which feels 100% wrong in my gut, and also he did not help us when it came to Futuregen, but thank goodness they moved to another part of Illinois- I am sad its still in Illinois but happy its not directly here...

    There's nothign more disgusting than storing nasty carbon or other garbage under your feet to leak into your water and soil, esp. when its all farms around u and those farms feed America...

    What's the point of capturing carbon to decrease climate change when it poisons ur water and food if it gets leaked and creates less than a thousand short-term jobs?

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  • 125. At 11:29pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #121

    andyparsonsga

    Judging by your response, all I can say is I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. If if seemed that way, I aplolgise.

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  • 126. At 00:50am on 04 Mar 2011, McJakome wrote:

    56. At 10:54am on 03 Mar 2011, Marnip wrote:
    31. At 03:16am on 03 Mar 2011, CuriousAmerican wrote:

    "In order to really understand us (which I seriously doubt many liberals do) you must understand a central fact of what it to be an American....One is not an american by birth...one is an American by belief in an idea..."

    Marnip, the quotation refers to a concept that the US was not founded on race, creed, color or dynasty, but upon political ideals, those of the enlightenment. It is a legitimate idea American political science.

    Note, however, the sly FOX/GOP/Palin spin that distorts the meaning so that those who don’t believe as THEY do are not real Americans. Note the exclusion of “many liberals.” I wonder if the sheep who swallow this bilge know, or care, that Josef Goebbels said the same thing about the Jews, “They aren’t real Germans, they are leftist fifth columnists they plan to destroy the German nation, etc.” Americans who disagree with Sarah Palin are not “real Americans?” How does that grab you?

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  • 127. At 01:49am on 04 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote:

    126. At 00:50am on 04 Mar 2011, JMM wrote:

    "Note, however, the sly FOX/GOP/Palin spin that distorts the meaning so that those who don’t believe as THEY do are not real Americans. Note the exclusion of “many liberals.” I wonder if the sheep who swallow this bilge know, or care, that Josef Goebbels said the same thing about the Jews, “They aren’t real Germans, they are leftist fifth columnists they plan to destroy the German nation, etc.” Americans who disagree with Sarah Palin are not “real Americans?” How does that grab you?"
    -----------------------

    Hilary Clinton told us that disagreement is the highest form of patriotism. That was when she disagreed with President Bush.

    However, now, disagreement with Obama is considered borderline treason by most of the media, and at minimum, racism.

    If you oppose Obamacare (if you even use the word "Obamacare") you are labeled a racist.

    If you don't like a $1.7 TRILLION deficit this year, or $1 TRILLION a year for the next 10 years, you are a racist.

    If you point out that Obama smoked, you are a racist.

    If you mention that Obama paly nearly 30 rounds of golf last year, you are a racist.

    In fact, all disagreement from the political right, for any reason, is labeled "racism" but Senators, Congressmen, and Obama's appointees.

    Fox admits it is to the political right, while every other new department, even those with anchors and division presidents who worked for Clinton and who host fundraisers for Democrats, claim they are neutral. Just like East German judges were neutral too.

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  • 128. At 02:12am on 04 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 120 Lord Jimbo-

    "I guess by your research on the TEAs I should give air to your qualifications on the topic. Funny how diverse the TEAs are, izzant it? If the TEAs are fundamentally republicans in patriot costumes, then why is John Boehner weeping over their maverick actions and votes on the hill?"

    There's the rub.

    There are two, distinct levels to the TEA Party movement. The few thousand 'grass-roots' political 'clubs; and the larger, national organizations such as the Tea Party Patriots, Tea Party Nation, Tea Party Express, etc. The national organizations are not the unified, nor does any one of these organizations represent a unification of the 'grass-roots' political 'clubs'; even though many of the larger organizations claim to be the one 'unifying body'; or at least, the one with the most support of the 'grass-roots' groups.

    The national organizations are, consistently, schism groups from within the Republican Party. A party within a party, if you please.

    Less than 3% of the individual, 'grass-roots' groups posted an endorsement of any candidate in 2010. It was very rare that an individual, 'grass-roots' group came out with a slate of endorsed candidates, both state and national. This was primarily due to the fact that the larger majority of these 'grass-roots' political clubs had either ceased functioning, or had become reduced to two or three active members prior to the 2010 elections. Once again, organization at the 'grass-roots' level was to activate self-disenfranchised voters; many of whom never, or seldom, entered a voting booth in their life. They attracted the self-disenfranchised who came to one or two meetings with the purpose of expressing their opinion, then disappeared back into their personal cocoon. Much like the mouse that roared. This clearly shows up in the fact that there was no significant, overall increase in voter turnout across the nation. The self-disenfranchised remained, true to their lack of responsibility, disenfranchised.

    The large, national organizations are primarily made up of active voters. Independents, Republicans with an agenda to change the Party structure, some wandering Democrats disillusioned with the Democratic Party agenda. These organizations did endorse their own slate of candidates, primarily Republicans, for the 2010 elections. Many of these endorsements just happened to overlap between organizations. The organizations then actively participated in their endorsed candidates campaigns. Their efforts resulted in the Republican/Tea Party candidates who were successfully elected in 2010.

    If we accept Chronophobe's (Pinko) Rove/Koch Division stated in post #29 on this thread, one may see the reason Speaker of the House John Boehner is having trouble getting his ducks in a row.

    The Tea Party Faction of the Republican Party are mavericks. That was their appeal to the Republican and Independent voters. These candidates were not going to align with the "career" politicians, John Boehner being one of those "career" politicians. Just one more example of a house divided.

    The Grand Old Party faces a number of internal, uphill challenges that need be decided before 2012 if they are going to have a chance to retake the Oval Office. One of those challenges is how to repair the schism before the Tea Party faction within the Party tears a wider swath.

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  • 129. At 02:34am on 04 Mar 2011, CuriousAmerican wrote:

    126. At 00:50am on 04 Mar 2011, JMM wrote:
    "In order to really understand us (which I seriously doubt many liberals do) you must understand a central fact of what it to be an American....One is not an american by birth...one is an American by belief in an idea..."

    Marnip, the quotation refers to a concept that the US was not founded on race, creed, color or dynasty, but upon political ideals, those of the enlightenment. It is a legitimate idea American political science.

    Note, however, the sly FOX/GOP/Palin spin that distorts the meaning so that those who don’t believe as THEY do are not real Americans. Note the exclusion of “many liberals.” I wonder if the sheep who swallow this bilge know, or care, that Josef Goebbels said the same thing about the Jews, “They aren’t real Germans, they are leftist fifth columnists they plan to destroy the German nation, etc.” Americans who disagree with Sarah Palin are not “real Americans?” How does that grab you?
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Brother..I hate to break it to you, but the idea that liberals don't believe in the american ideal is nothing "made up" by an evil cabal of those you don't like. Nice connection to Nazis for all who you disagree with you by the way...you make my point nicely about liberals.

    (..Don't agree with me?...you must be a mass-murdering demon spawn...that's the only logical conclusion...right...)

    ....rather it is the acknoledgement of the rest of america who have heard your constant complaints over the last 50 years..we've watched you burn the flag..tear down our sacred traditions...ridicule our most cherished beliefs and actually cheer for and enable our enemy while our sons and husbands are being killed...

    We've heard you loud and clear...you hate the ideals of traditional America...and yet when called on it...you complain that your hate is really not hate of ALL America...just the ones you don't agree with...

    ....that commmon attitude of liberal hatred of people who don't think like them....IS NOT AMERICAN....It is the attitude of the powerseeker, the tyrant, the self-destructive and the adolesent mind...

    ...in my humble observation....the modern day western liberal see themselves as the overlord cast of society looking down upon a vast sea of peasants who must be subjected to their superior liberal will "for their own good"...This is NOT American...It is tyrannical..It is despotic..It is the nature of man to want to RULE over another...It is EVERYTHING the american IDEAL is against....

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  • 130. At 02:54am on 04 Mar 2011, rodidog wrote:

    128 PD,
    “The Grand Old Party faces a number of internal, uphill challenges that need be decided before 2012 if they are going to have a chance to retake the Oval Office.”

    I don’t think those internal challenges are as acute as some believe. We were told of similar challenges facing the GOP in the last election. Its true those challenges cost two Senate seats by electing candidates who performed badly in the general election. On the other hand, if losing two seats while gaining six in the Senate, along with 63 seats in the house, are signs of deep internal problems, well, I’m guessing Democrats wish they had it so bad.

    The real problem facing the GOP is going up against an incumbent President; they’re difficult to beat, though not unheard of. It all depends on the economy and having a viable alternative to President Obama. Even if the GOP does not win the White House, there is a good chance they will win the Senate, since around two dozen democrats are up for re-election in 2012.

    IMO, Obama will most likely win in 2012 unless things unravel for him while the GOP takes over both houses in Congress. Besides, I think a better crop of GOP candidates will be available in 2016 than 2012. Something that I don’t think can be said of Democrats.

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  • 131. At 02:59am on 04 Mar 2011, McJakome wrote:

    127. At 01:49am on 04 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote Re:
    126. At 00:50am on 04 Mar 2011, JMM Like all propagandists, you did not address the point, you bloviated around it. Who are the "real Americans?" WHo are you or FOX or Palin to decide who is a "real American?"

    One of my ancestors was among the patriots that chased the red coats back into Boston and beseiged them there. Are his descendents then "not real Americans" because we don't want to toe the Palin Party line any more than we wanted to toe King George's?

    My father survived Normandy, and had 5 major battle stars on his battle ribbons. He earned a Purple Heart and was so injured in body and mind that he was ever after in and out of hospitals, and I have few happy memories of him. He was the last survivor in his unit, a master seargeant who rounded up more strays and continued fighting.

    Did he not serve the nation, and fighting for his family did he not win for us the title "real Americans?"

    If you* disparage, attack and disrespect those who do not think exactly as you* do, and try to call them "not real Americans," then what you* do is shameful, and it is you* who are not a "real American."

    *You is to be read as anyone, not as an attack or disparagement of any particular person.

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  • 132. At 03:20am on 04 Mar 2011, McJakome wrote:

    Judging by the responses on this one blog, I think it is becoming more noticeable that the Obamaphobes' condition is becoming ever more frantic and divorced from reality. In their fevered need to prove that he is wrong, wrong, wrong and a traitor, anything he does that is OK, much less good or amazing, results in incoherent attacks.

    I pointed out a propaganda tactic used by these people, and the response was, surprise, an anti-Obama rant. They can't argue the point, because they are trying to defend an illogical, irrational propaganda promoted alternate reality. They even suggested that I voted for President Obama, when I did not.

    Their ranting and propaganda tactics have just persuaded me that they are crackpots who must be opposed. Thus, they are their own worst enemies. I will, most likely, be driven to vote for the reelection of President Obama when the FOX/GOP/Palin Party machine starts spewing, and the Obamaphobe start bouncing off the walls of their rubber rooms.

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  • 133. At 03:30am on 04 Mar 2011, Joao Coelho wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 134. At 04:11am on 04 Mar 2011, Edgeofurbania wrote:

    My Guess at this juncture is Huntsman, Romney and Pence in the Primaries...

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  • 135. At 04:16am on 04 Mar 2011, rodidog wrote:

    132 JMM,

    Why get into rhetorical pissing matches if you can’t handle getting your hair mussed-up? It’s not as if you don’t deal in exaggerations and distortions yourself. Either stop stooping or stop whining. Your ground is no higher than anyone else’s.

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  • 136. At 05:50am on 04 Mar 2011, CuriousAmerican wrote:

    132. At 03:20am on 04 Mar 2011, JMM wrote:
    ............... I will, most likely, be driven to vote for the reelection of President Obama when the FOX/GOP/Palin Party machine starts spewing, and the Obamaphobe start bouncing off the walls of their rubber rooms.
    ------------------------------------------

    ...somehow I fail to believe you are able to change your world view and thus your opinions on politics (which you think are facts)...

    Obama campaigned as a centrist Clinton...he immediately governed like an autocrat straight out of the old eastern european model...

    He has become the poster child of everything the regular people hate about politicians who will say anything to get elected......which is why he and his nanny state government party lost BIG time..the biggest in american history...with part 2 coming in 2012...

    I don't think Everything he does is wrong...but he is wrong almost all the time...Well thats what you get when your "leader" has never done any actual leading before...

    It would be like hiring the mail room clerk to be the CEO of GE...its a serious sign of system failure that such an unqualified person could be elected.....There needs to be some kind of "Farm league" training requirement for ANY higher leadership position in our govt. Being good looking, giving good speaches or knowing the right people is an ongoing train wreck......

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  • 137. At 06:11am on 04 Mar 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    escapedfromny wrote:

    If you oppose Obamacare (if you even use the word "Obamacare") you are labeled a racist.

    If you don't like a $1.7 TRILLION deficit this year, or $1 TRILLION a year for the next 10 years, you are a racist.

    If you point out that Obama smoked, you are a racist.

    If you mention that Obama played nearly 30 rounds of golf last year, you are a racist.

    In fact, all disagreement from the political right, for any reason, is labeled "racism" but Senators, Congressmen, and Obama's appointees.

    Fox admits it is to the political right, while every other new department, even those with anchors and division presidents who worked for Clinton and who host fundraisers for Democrats, claim they are neutral. Just like East German judges were neutral too.






    You're right.

    There are right wing extremists in the media (and elsewhere) but there're no left wing extremists, just 'neutralists'.

    Right wing extremists are fascists (i.e.. National Socialists), 'uneducated primitive ignorants' and 'liers', whereas those who are neutral are well educated, sophisticated and always speak truth.


    "Fox News" is right wing, whereas NPR/PBS is neutral.

    "Washington Times" is right wing, whereas "Washington Post" is neutral.

    "The Time of London" is right wing, whereas "The Guardian" is neutral.

    Etc.


    At least that's what 'useful idiots', 'pool side pinkos' and assorted 'fellow travellers' would like us to believe.



    P.S. I dread to think what would happen if somebody, making a genuine spelling mistake, wrote ObamaScare, instead of 'Obamacare', 'Mubarak', instead of 'Barack' or 'Osama' instead of 'Obama'. :-(((

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  • 139. At 08:10am on 04 Mar 2011, Mirino wrote:

    132. JMM

    Propaganda is usually based on lies or gross deformation of the truth to promote a derogatory idea.
    No one has to lie or deform the truth regarding Obama's foreign politics, or impolitics. They speak for themselves. Enough examples have already be alluded to, and this opinion is far more more global than isolated.

    Referring to his latest declaration, obviously it's one thing to say the 'right thing'- more belatedly than- at the right time ('Gaddafi must go'). It's another thing to make the necessary commitment to ascertain that this is the case.

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  • 140. At 08:20am on 04 Mar 2011, Mirino wrote:

    ...but it's exemplary of wise precaution to totally rely on the Libyan people to do the job as soon as possible.

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  • 142. At 09:13am on 04 Mar 2011, JunkkMale wrote:

    '132. At 03:20am on 04 Mar 2011, JMM wrote:
    I pointed out a propaganda tactic used by these people,'


    In such discussions, it may be best to avoid terms such as 'these people', though it does form the basis of many a cheap awkward scrabble from hapless liberal stereotypical characters on sit coms.

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  • 143. At 11:06am on 04 Mar 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 127. At 01:49am on 04 Mar 2011, escapedfromny wrote:
    ·
    “However, now, disagreement with Obama is considered borderline treason by most of the media, and at minimum, racism./If you oppose Obamacare (if you even use the word "Obamacare") you are labeled a racist./If you don't like a $1.7 TRILLION deficit this year, or $1 TRILLION a year for the next 10 years, you are a racist./If you point out that Obama smoked, you are a racist./If you mention that Obama paly nearly 30 rounds of golf last year, you are a racist./In fact, all disagreement from the political right, for any reason, is labeled "racism" but Senators, Congressmen, and Obama's appointees.”

    So essentially you are saying that, if you disagree in any way with Obama, ‘most of the media’ will state that you are racist, at minimum, and borderline treasonous. And since pretty well all Republicans disagree with Obama, it follows that ‘most of the media’ will state that they are racist, at minimum, and borderline treasonous.

    Any evidence that this is what ‘most of the media’ says? Any proof? Some links? some examples of what ‘most of the media’ state?

    Because I think you are talking nonsense, but if you have proof…

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  • 144. At 11:11am on 04 Mar 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 137 PMK

    “"The Time of London" is right wing, whereas "The Guardian" is neutral.

    Etc.


    At least that's what 'useful idiots', 'pool side pinkos' and assorted 'fellow travellers' would like us to believe.”

    Piffle.

    Give us an example of someone who has said that.

    The Guardian is unashamedly a leftwing/liberal paper. This is reflected in its editorials, its opinion pieces and, generally, its letters page. However, in my experience it manages to separate opinion from reporting – ie it doesn’t twist its factual reporting to suit its politics.

    I rarely read the daily Times of London but always read the Sunday version. It is unashamedly on the right, as one would expect from a Murdoch paper. This is reflected in its editorials, its opinion pieces and, generally, its letters page. However, in my experience it manages to separate opinion from reporting – ie it doesn’t twist its factual reporting to suit its politics.

    ‘what 'useful idiots', 'pool side pinkos' and assorted 'fellow travellers'’ etc

    Standard PMK McCarthyism – ie anyone he disagrees with is a commie…

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  • 145. At 2:43pm on 04 Mar 2011, andyparsonsga wrote:

    125. At 11:29pm on 03 Mar 2011, d_m wrote:

    #121

    andyparsonsga

    "Judging by your response, all I can say is I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. If if seemed that way, I aplolgise."

    Thank you, that is extremely gracious of you and very much appreciated!

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  • 146. At 5:04pm on 04 Mar 2011, MilwaukeeRay wrote:

    What a sad assortment. It brings to mind the old American political maxim, "You can't beat somebody with nobody".

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  • 147. At 6:24pm on 04 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    Re: PD, # 128
    Good work!

    Have you discovered the ‘club’ link to the Republican boot camp at Reagan’s old ranch? It is called the Young American Foundation. YAF hosts a boot camp for young Americans that just so happen to be populating college campuses, you know - the socialist liberal spawning grounds of dissent throughout the country? Educated people are dangerous!

    This topical controversy sounds like the perpetual war where distortions of reality and flagrant violations of reality reign. All that is required is a little patriotism and no one will see what is going on around them (us). There is no right and left when you look behind the curtain of division. See 1984; an outline with fiction.

    The candidates that get air time and press ink have been documented in the past to be affiliated with the CFR. Right and left all eat peeled boiled shrimp and drink Cold Duck at the same table. There are even more influential tables of ’policy’ that govern the CFR, the greatest being the Round Table Group.

    Our basic unit of currency has on its back a seal that represents what we really are about, but it is never taught in the schools. The goal and purpose of this nation is to see and facilitate the seating of the capstone. Political perfection is mankind’s dream and work. We hear about it often in many ways so as to desire it more and more, but the snake eats its own tail.

    America has no monopoly on God’s goodness, that goodness is evidenced on an individual basis. In the song America the Beautiful, it says God crowned thy good with brotherhood. Few know of what brotherhood is spoken of, for it is not a figure of speech. The brotherhood that is crowned knows the significance of all the secret symbolism on the dollar bill. We as a nation are simply a vehicle to achieve an end means in a grand illusion.

    God’s Word is readily available but other great secrets are maintained and stewarded by those who seek another light and those secrets are disguised in symbolism. We are no longer a republic. Democracy (mob rule) is the promoted model for political perfection throughout the world. Do you know what follows a Democracy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDS1OHk7Lf8&feature=related

    Any political reform in this country would have to begin in the vacuum and absence of every entanglement that manipulates and governs. The closest we came was to become a nation that was a republic. If you look closely, we were never that at all and the entanglements were there from the start. We were no more less a designed conflict than Israel is. Not even the laborers have knowledge of who they serve and to what end their service will yield.

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  • 148. At 8:29pm on 04 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 147 Lord Jimbo-

    "Have you discovered the ‘club’ link to the Republican boot camp at Reagan’s old ranch? It is called the Young American Foundation."

    Interesting, but not surprising, use of Reagan's old ranch. There was a time when entertainers were considered to be on the lower end of the social spectrum. One locked up the good silver when actors were on the premises.

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  • 149. At 10:48pm on 04 Mar 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Curious American: Being good looking, giving good speaches or knowing the right people is an ongoing train wreck......
    --------

    In all honesty, I feel like either President Obama does not truly understand what America actually is or he simply feels like he can potentially change it to be the country of his dreams, which is his dream but not necessarily other Americans...

    "You can be in my dream if I can be in yours"
    Bob Dylan said that..
    Lol..

    ------------
    Pmk: If you mention that Obama played nearly 30 rounds of golf last year, you are a racist.
    ----------
    It often seems that way..many of the main networks slant politically correct liberal, which I noticed during the immigration debates with Arizona law, in which it was hard to find a news channel that would talk about both sides, particularily the ppl who were against illegal immigration had difficulty making their voices be heard..

    I notice in the media how the main anchors are white- Brian Williams, Katie Couric, Diane Sawyer, and then how the main anchors on weekend are black- Russ Williams, Lester Holt and also how many of the reporters sent overseas to ME protests are white females- Lara Logan, Mandy Clark, Christine Amanpour and I can't quite remember the gal from NBC, but there's one from there, also...its strange..we all know there's some ME countries in which women are treated like property and looked at as less, so why do we keep sending white female reporters there when truth is males are much safer?
    I am female, in favor of women's rights, but why not protect females?

    And incidents like the Professor-Cop one with Obama taking sides, also the Black Panther Election intimidation case, his stance on Arizona immigration law and his stance on being in favor of giving millions of illegals citizenship, also his position of 9/11 mosque, and others showcase where he stands...

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  • 150. At 10:58pm on 04 Mar 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Pmk: If you point out that Obama smoked, you are a racist.
    ---------
    Why do some say being against illegal immigration regardless of color is racist?
    -------------

    My guess is its because there's so many of one kind coming in- the old USA had immigrants from all around the world, the new USA has immigrants mostly coming from one place..

    While mass amounts of illegals are being smuggled into USA, mass amounts of weaponry is being smuggled into Mexico, so neither side is benefitting..

    The corruption is completely out of control..

    Just look at this story about Mexican troops:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110304/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_drug_war_mexico

    An excerpt:
    The Mexican army has ordered three junior officers and 10 soldiers to stand trial on drug trafficking and organized crime charges after they were allegedly caught with more than a ton of methamphetamines and 66 pounds (30 kilograms) of cocaine.

    ---------

    Meth is really, really bad stuff...its worse than any other drug..

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  • 151. At 11:15pm on 04 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    LucyJ,
    You should play more chess because what you learn is that no one is in-expendable but one. As for your perceptions and role in this theater we call politics and the art of learned helplessness, read on;

    “They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, ...
    All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary, …” Eric Arthur Blair

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  • 152. At 00:03am on 05 Mar 2011, McJakome wrote:

    Perhaps you did not understand my point. Let me rephrase it.

    Sara Palin and other posters here state that people who don’t believe as they do are not “real Americans.” [If this is not true I am ready to apologize.] Joseph Goebbels said that Jews [and others who did not support the party] were not real Germans. [If that is not true, I will apologize.] Lenin, Beria and Stalin said that people who did not follow the party line were not true socialists. [If this is not true I will apologize.]

    On FOX and on this site people have stated that Obama and liberals are socialists and communists; like Goebbels said that the Jews [and others] were socialists and communists [even when they were not]. Lenin, Beria and Stalin said that anyone who disagreed with them was a fascist or capitalist, even when it was not true. [If I am in error on this I will apologize.]

    Posters on this board have said that President Obama is a Communist, deliberately trying to destroy the US. Goebbels said that the Jews and others were communists trying to destroy the German nation and, at the same time, the Russian Communists called people who disagreed with them saboteurs. The Chinese still use these lies to justify oppression there as well. [If any of this is untrue I will apologize to you.]

    So why do you not remove the boulder from your own eye before you say that there is a speck in mine? You say I can’t admit to error or change my position, you seem unable to even consider what you are doing and that you are using very old propaganda techniques that actually predate Goebbels. The Romans persecuted Christians, saying that they were a danger to the Roman state, traitors, etc.

    Unlike you, I understand that the Constitution of the US, including the Bill of Rights, and apparently the Supreme Court MOST strictly, protect the rights of people who disagree. I will call attempts to silence or marginalize people who disagree with others un-American because it is in opposition to the Constitution that I swore to preserve, protect and defend from enemies [domestic as well as foreign] who would trash it and its protections.

    And your name calling without evidence shows your willingness to use propaganda tools, wherever they originated, and apparently without conscience. Now, my point should be obvious, both Left and right use propaganda.

    For Americans to use vile propaganda upon each other, to tell obvious lies about each other for political purposes, to declare each other "not a real American" is a tragedy, it is tearing the country apart. Those who do so, left and right, may be "real Americans" but they are enemies of the Constitution and of the nation. This internal propaganda war must stop, as it only helps weaken the nation and helps our external enemies.

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  • 153. At 00:24am on 05 Mar 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Jimbo:“They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, ...
    All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary, …” Eric Arthur Blair
    --------------

    Patriotism is our country's biggest strength and traitorship is our country's biggest weakness, as shown by wikileaks...

    If someone chooses to use something good in a negative way, shame on them, but do not be unhappy with the ppl who are sincerely pure and good in loving their one and only homeland...

    You can blame innocent love all you want, but that is what patriotism is, innocent love...

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  • 154. At 07:09am on 05 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    Well said fair and genteel Lady Lucy of the J.

    Let us onward ride to Camelot homeland and drink deep the fountains of innocent loves in youthful simplicity and in the passion of fresh spring days. Let us walk the paths of smelly roses and blooming heather. Come Kurl with me my dear and we shall kill twelve cans of beer, and feast the fatted flesh of flocking fowls in delightful deep-fried flatteries.

    Alas! The King!
    He approaches! The hammer of Camelot nears and we shall sweep before him in humble submission for the beauty of his decree and gentile throwing. Shall not the King be worthy of his first love? Who dare to deny him and from what hidden throne does the wobbler rule? What medieval plot would bring to hogger the Kings speech?

    A Snare! A Snare! Cry me! Why does it darken and grieve his heart as it pierces the heart of humanity who dearly loves our perfected benefactor? He is become frightful to behold. How much shall he endure? Shall we not have compassion for his many losses?

    Our brave King shall overcome and confirm for us the splendid peace that is Camelot, for his heart is great and his duty to the kingdom prevails. For we have entrusted him with all the coin and all the cattle and all the grain that he may feed his flock and we may live by his coin and goodness.

    For what is Camelot without a King?
    ------------------------------------
    And they all lived happily ever-after, ad iudicium, ad nauseam, ab absurdum.

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  • 155. At 03:02am on 06 Mar 2011, chronophobe wrote:

    re: 147 Lord Jimbo

    The candidates that get air time and press ink have been documented in the past to be affiliated with the CFR. Right and left all eat peeled boiled shrimp and drink Cold Duck at the same table.

    Sometimes we liven the menu with braised baby and carrots.

    Very tasty if done right.

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  • 156. At 10:40am on 06 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    re: 155 Chronophobe,

    Enjoy the baby carrots, but if look closely they are uniformly machined and are not truly baby carrots. In that you also partake of a flagrant violation of reality in your hearty toasts of triumph. Most who are involved do not know greater facts because the success is in the secrecy of moves. There are many pawns on the board and they are limited in scope and function, but they do contribute as required. The temporal pleasures of brazed carrots is hardly worth bragging about, but knock yourself out if you feel special.

    Do you see the passion going on in the world that topples leaders? Or that depletes fortunes? There is no immunity for even the most influential, wealthy or powerful. You see the results of something that acts without any outward influence that can be documented. It is a mystery and it knows no bounds or respects any person in its sphere of influence. What is happening could be defined a ‘happening’ because no one at the table had a direct hand in the chaos. Some see a pattern of events but cannot define its workings or limits.

    To win at chess, you have to be ruthless with your
    opponent and sacrifice all for the win, save one. Self preservation only concerns one but it looks like it concerns all. Each role seems vital but the perspective is not on the board, it is above it. In the end there can only be one.

    Chaos has been used before to obtain new order but for once we see widespread chaos without the movement of man’s hand. It is a mystery greater than how those ‘baby carrots’ are made so perfectly uniform and has many left in the dark.

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  • 157. At 5:18pm on 06 Mar 2011, McJakome wrote:

    Flip, flop and FOX, when will they fly?

    Flipping is for the congress,
    Whose morals often flop,
    FOX’s flop is noisome glop,
    Wherefrom faux news will never stop.
    When flipping congress to the GOP,
    Be sure the slop will never stop.
    For it is truth none can deny,
    both right and left with one Fagin fly.

    --a JMM original

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  • 158. At 5:51pm on 06 Mar 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Jimbo: Our brave King shall overcome and confirm for us the splendid peace that is Camelot, for his heart is great and his duty to the kingdom prevails. For we have entrusted him with all the coin and all the cattle and all the grain that he may feed his flock and we may live by his coin and goodness.

    For what is Camelot without a King?
    ------------------------------------
    Is this an original, Jimbo?

    Very well spoken...and very...British...

    My point is simply that u r looking at hte wrong side of the equation...

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  • 159. At 03:25am on 07 Mar 2011, Stokkevn wrote:

    3. At 9:18pm on 02 Mar 2011, publiusdetroit wrote:
    MM wrote-

    "It would be deeply weird to make a big announcement abroad, but she [Palin] is the biggest tease of the lot, seemingly on a mission to keep us all guessing."

    Some find her more comically entertaining then mystifying. The television series, Sarah Palin's Alaska was a wonderful farce to watch this season.

    Palin loves the adoration of her fans and the money their adoration puts in her pocket. She would be a fool to take a pay-cut as President while her brand is still hot. But, of course, taking a pay-cut and risking the loss of adoration from her infatuated fan-base would be one of those, "deeply weird" events she has demonstrated to the electorate in the past.

    Take cover, America! Loose cannon on the deck!
    __________________________________________________

    I have seen a couple of interviews with Palin on news channels, she makes Bush look like a member of Mensa

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  • 160. At 05:37am on 07 Mar 2011, Lord Jimbo wrote:

    Yes LucyJ, I am Fons et Origo (a Latin term meaning "source and origin").

    I pride myself at fractured fairy tales. It keeps me sane to make light of serious matters. Does my verse for you lighten your step? I can talk nasty pirate too if it suits the mood,...

    So, please enlighten me as to what exactly you mean by “My point is simply that u r looking at hte wrong side of the equation...”

    What is your perspective and what is the equation? Any chance you can type whole words and leave the texting for Charley Sheen and Sarah Palin? Let’s not mess up the King’s English with rough guttural expressions lest we talk nasty pirate. Don’t make me go there unless you really want it.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Stokkevn: “I have seen a couple of interviews with Palin on news channels, she makes Bush look like a member of Mensa” That is a very good laugh. She is on the oil gig again. Her recent twitter gaffs unfortunately are out of the range of the understanding of most of the population. Did you see the mass book burnings in Libya of Palin’s Arabic editions while the Empire strikes back? Kadaffy keeps quoting her books and there is no end of the rage it genders. MAD magazine has three pages of her quotes and there is no telling what the youth of America will do.

    ***************
    PS I got a nasty-gram for using another language. So much for the dead figurative language!

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  • 161. At 11:19pm on 07 Mar 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Jim: I pride myself at fractured fairy tales.
    ----------
    I love fairy tales...but why do they have to be fractured?
    -------------
    Jim: It keeps me sane to make light of serious matters. Does my verse for you lighten your step? I can talk nasty pirate too if it suits the mood,...
    ---------
    I do other things to keep sane...sure, it was funny, no thanx, I'm not the pirate type as I am fully landlocked, which is very comfortable fit.
    ------------
    Jim: So, please enlighten me as to what exactly you mean by “My point is simply that u r looking at hte wrong side of the equation...”
    ---------------
    U r looking at the negative side of patriotism without equally weighing out or adding the positive side of patriotism...to me the positive side far outweighs the bad..

    If a country does not have patriotism, then how can that country feel like a united country?

    Our patriotism is what holds us together, it is what makes us who and what we are, it is the reason why we r still a country...

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