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The Egyptian genie can't be put back in the bottle

Mark Mardell | 22:08 UK time, Wednesday, 9 February 2011

President Barack Obama's spokesman has said that protests in Egypt will only get bigger and bigger if the government there doesn't quicken the pace of reform.

Robert Gibbs, grasping at a suitably Middle Eastern image, said the notion that the genie could be put back in the bottle had long gone. He said it was clear that the Egyptian government's action had yet to meet the minimum threshold for the people of Egypt. He used the word "threshold" about five times during his briefing.

He added that the US was reviewing its aid programme to Egypt, saying: "We are watching quite closely," and the Egyptian government's restraint and reform "will determine what that aid will look like".

Some think the White House has been behind the curve for years and is still backing a process that won't go anywhere.

But there's no doubt it is ratcheting up the pressure even if the focus has shifted. There is no longer much talk about Mr Mubarak's early departure. Instead it is urging specific changes.

US Vice-President Joe Biden has been phoning his opposite number in Egypt, Omar Suleiman, on an almost daily basis. His most recent call (yesterday) was the toughest yet.

He said the emergency law, which has been in force for 43 years and allows a broad range of powers, should be lifted immediately.

Mr Biden also told the man in charge of transition that the ministry of the interior should be restrained immediately and should stop the arrest, beating and detention of journalists and activists and that there should be a clear policy of no reprisals.

The White House has found a form of words to distance itself from the idea it is dictating change. It stresses that it is not what Mr Obama wants, but what the Egyptian people want that matters. But it means the White House has made the satisfaction of the demonstrators its yardstick of progress.

But the Egyptian government ignored Mr Obama's speech last week, it ignored Mr Biden's call yesterday and there is no reason to think this latest briefing will have any more impact.

Comments

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  • 1. At 11:07pm on 09 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Mardell wrote: The White House has found a form of words to distance itself from the idea it is dictating change. It stresses that it is not what Mr Obama wants, but what the Egyptian people want that matters.
    -------

    What right do we have to tell Egypt how to run their country?

    Why won't President Obama let Egypt be Egypt?

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  • 2. At 11:09pm on 09 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Mardell wrote: But it means the White House has made the satisfaction of the demonstrators its yardstick of progress.
    ------
    Isn't it funny how much compassion President Obama has for the foreign protesters, yet he won't listen to the protesters in America who don't want Obamacare making them slaves?

    President Obama clearly has a hidden agenda for why he wants Mubarack out of office so badly...

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  • 3. At 11:13pm on 09 Feb 2011, JClarkson wrote:

    ""We are watching quite closely," and the Egyptian government's restraint and reform "will determine what that aid will look like"."


    That's funny, the aid was not contingent on reform before... Obama Chicago-style politics has changed all that, it seems. Or is it simply a pathetic ploy at putting on the appearance of being on top of the situation?

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  • 4. At 11:14pm on 09 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Mardell: But the Egyptian government ignored Mr Obama's speech last week, it ignored Mr Biden's call yesterday and there is no reason to think this latest briefing will have any more impact.
    ---------

    Its def a war of words between Barack and Mubarack...

    But ultimately, the Egyptian leader is going to do what he believes is best for his country, not what the PRes of USA believes is best and I think we should respect whatever decision the Egyptian leader makes...

    President Obama, its not up to USA to tell Egypt what to do...

    Let Egypt be Egypt and only then will it be free!!!


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  • 5. At 11:25pm on 09 Feb 2011, Andy Post wrote:

    Ref. 1, LucyJ:

    "What right do we have to tell Egypt how to run their country?

    Why won't President Obama let Egypt be Egypt?"

    What right did France have to tell Great Britain how to run their empire?

    Why wouldn't Louis XVI just let Great Britain be Great Britain?

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  • 6. At 11:27pm on 09 Feb 2011, Andy Post wrote:

    Seems like the Saudis have a few ideas of their own.

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/09/saudi-arabia-considers-matching-u-s-military-aid-to-egypt/

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  • 7. At 00:03am on 10 Feb 2011, Scott0962 wrote:

    America should be backing the protestors in Egypt because it's the right thing to do but we should have no illusions that after 30 years of backing a dictator that the Egyptian people will suddenly forgive and be grateful to us for any influence we excercise of their behalf now. What the administration does now can influence how long it takes to heal the breach between the Egyptian people and America but it cannot prevent the breach itself, that damage is already done.

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  • 8. At 00:12am on 10 Feb 2011, Stevenson wrote:

    LucyJ,

    I HAVE to stay at a job that I'm being mistreated at. Its a good job, but the management is awful. Now, if I get fired, I won't be able to have health insurance ...unless, Obamacare is implemented (and that won't be until 2014.

    Why are some people so compassionless? Do you know that there already is care for the poor ...city paid at city hospitals? But, I will not be able to use that because I live in the wrong county.

    Also, do you feel it is better to spend almost 1 trillion on armed forces and bankrupt the country or do you feel its better to have Obamacare and bankrupt the country? I realize there are 2 ways or more to think.

    But, I did have a stroke at age 35, should I be left to die if I have one more (my blood pressure does go UP and down) at my age or older (I'm 53 and could have a stroke or a heart attack sometime soon.

    If I do not have health insurance (I DO have the best Now as I'm a govt. worker) but will not have any health insurance if I get fired. Of course, that is another hot-button issue for Republicans -- highly paid govt. workers.

    Let it be known (if that is possible for conservatives) that govt. worker do not make more than private industry workers. We make about the same per job as private industry workers make

    Now, LucyJ, why do Republicans spread statistical lies? Maybe you are not Republican and that is not a fair question to you? But,

    I do think the Republicans are going down the tubes...did you know that Reagan was loved, but now G.W. Bush is hated? And that he did bankrupt our nation?

    Sorry, for picking on you, you are probably center, not an extremist

    :)))

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  • 9. At 00:13am on 10 Feb 2011, McJakome wrote:

    Is the Saudi aid going to be used to fund more Wahabist Madrassahs? Is it going to be used to prevent democratic change in Egypt and the Middle East? Is it going to be used to prop up the security forces or the army? Or is it going to be used to help Egyptian people get jobs and an improveing economy? Upon the answers to these questions much depends.

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  • 10. At 00:18am on 10 Feb 2011, jaceinAZ wrote:

    Clearly the Obama administration is starting to feel like any tangible influence over this situation is slipping from their control.

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  • 11. At 00:19am on 10 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    USA has been helping out other countries for years, but why has our govt. not secured our border?

    If our own country is being illegally invaded by illegal foreigners who have no legal right to be in our country, why is the USA military in another country instead of stopping the illegal invasion right here at home?

    If I was President, I would tell USA military our number one goal was to secure USA's borders, I would encourage Congress to make a law that shuts down the business of any employer who knowingly employs an illegal immigrant and I would deport each and every illegal immigrant back to their homeland in which they have citizenship...

    Enough is enough.

    As an American who loves her country, I have taken an oath to defend her from all enemies, foreign and domestic...

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  • 12. At 00:29am on 10 Feb 2011, V Siva wrote:

    The world is waiting to witness the rolling out of democracy in Egypt.

    There may be other nations too follow suit.

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  • 13. At 00:46am on 10 Feb 2011, NOMUBARAK wrote:

    Democracy vs Dictator Mubarak.
    There is no difficulty in supporting the side that is good: Democracy seeking protesters. Mubarak is a autocrate who has stolen from the poor and given to the rich. He is a 70USD Billions gorilla.

    March to the palace and dethrone the wicked old man.

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  • 14. At 00:48am on 10 Feb 2011, NOMUBARAK wrote:

    Please do not punish the protesters-they are armless and harmless.

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  • 15. At 00:51am on 10 Feb 2011, NOMUBARAK wrote:

    This ia atest for Obama. If he saves his dictator friend and get the DEMOCRACY seekingmatchers killed - Obama will lose 2012.
    I will not vote for Obama. He is too timid and a joke.

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  • 16. At 00:52am on 10 Feb 2011, juanyjuan wrote:

    LucyJ and JMay are obviously Republican party hacks trolling these bulletin boards. The 2010 health care plan has nothing to do with Egypt.

    What the US government DOES have to do with Egypt is a massive annual subsidy paid to THEIR government. So the fact that US government is PAYING the Egyptians 1.5 billion dollars means that Obama's administration is involved with this either way.

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  • 17. At 00:55am on 10 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Stevenson wrote: I HAVE to stay at a job that I'm being mistreated at. Its a good job, but the management is awful. Now, if I get fired, I won't be able to have health insurance ...unless, Obamacare is implemented.
    ----------------
    I'm sorry to hear that, Stevenson...I have a job, but its prn or as needed aka part time, hours are unreliable and I do not have health insurance. Although I am young and healthy, if I got sick, I know I would not be covered and that would be it.
    ---------------
    S: Why are some people so compassionless?
    -------------
    Because their greed and selfishness consumes them...
    ------------
    S: do you feel it is better to spend almost 1 trillion on armed forces and bankrupt the country or do you feel its better to have Obamacare and bankrupt the country
    ----------
    I feel its better to bring our troops home and have the USA military focus number one on securing our borders and deporting illegal foreign invaders aka defending our homeland in our own country and better replacing Obamacare/mandated health ins. with universal health care...
    ---------
    S wrote: But, I did have a stroke at age 35, should I be left to die if I have one more (my blood pressure does go UP and down) at my age or older (I'm 53 and could have a stroke or a heart attack sometime soon
    --------
    Obviously not...

    With strokes, of course some are more severe than others...someone could have a ministroke and it doesn't even show up on tests...

    You would likely be taken care of by Medicare, which covers physical therapy and hospital/nh/alf stay/home therapy for a certain period of time depending on progress made...

    I would estimate 95 % of the people I work with are on Medicare...if it wasn't for Medicare, they wouldn't be able to afford keeping their physical independence...and I wouldn't have a job...
    ------------
    S: If I do not have health insurance (I DO have the best Now as I'm a govt. worker) but will not have any health insurance if I get fired. Of course, that is another hot-button issue for Republicans -- highly paid govt. workers.
    ------------
    So you can stay with a job you don't like and have health ins or be fired, happier and not have it?

    That is up to you...no one else can make that decision. Is it fair? Not really...

    As I said, I also do not have health insurance because its simply too expensive. Of course, I am also helping my family out right now so I have to make the choice to have health insurance or help my family and of course, I choose my family...
    --------
    S: Now, LucyJ, why do Republicans spread statistical lies? Maybe you are not Republican and that is not a fair question to you?
    -----------
    No, I am not Repub, although morally I sway to the right, however I am against giving corps tax breaks, ect. I think both Dems and Repubs are pretty even in the mud-slinging dept...
    ----------
    S: I do think the Republicans are going down the tubes...did you know that Reagan was loved, but now G.W. Bush is hated? And that he did bankrupt our nation?
    ---------
    Yes....I agree with you that he did bankrupt our nation and it will take many years before we fully recover...however, we are not broken and at some point we, too, will begin to heal...
    -----------
    S: Sorry, for picking on you, you are probably center, not an extremist
    -----------
    Yes, I believe I am more center, but I sway right...are you a Democrat?

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  • 18. At 01:53am on 10 Feb 2011, jaceinAZ wrote:

    LucyJ,
    Wouldn't US involvement in helping to secure a peaceful transition of power in Egypt qualify as defending America against foreign enemies?
    By the way, it is ALREADY a crime to employ an illegal alien in the US under Section 274A of the Immigration and Nationality Act and Section 8 United States Code 1324(a).
    www.uscis.gov/laws for more info

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  • 19. At 03:21am on 10 Feb 2011, Stevenson wrote:

    I want to tell you about Gay people...for reasons...you might like, LucyJ

    (dont comment ...this is for you)

    Gay men love women (as friends only). When I was young I found out I was Gay...big shock to the system...but only for a while as at age 18 I started dating. Im nice looking, but most Gay men are ..as they tend to groom better (at least back ..then lol) and be ...shallower (at first) (men can be shallower than women,

    no offense to men)

    So, when I was young, I hung out with pretty women ...I found out since I didn't like women in that way...pretty women noticed that and were easy to befriend (I didnt look at their ...parts) (I can teach men how to be friends with women...but not here)

    But, I grew less shallow when I got older and now I hang out with all different looking women...its a "Gay male thing." LOL

    I also hang out with Gay women (why do they get their own name, Lesbians--not fair). Some are funny--they tell me stories of how because they look male, they can fool women ....for a while...lol.

    But that is another story...Lesbian women. Also, I mainly hang out with straight males whom are oppressed or young or tolerant. Intolerant Straight males are not fun for gay men...of course.

    Right now in my 50s I hang out with fat Straight men, Arabs, anyone whom feel oppressed are usually tolerant of Gay men. So, Straight men are just as good as Gay men as friends.

    But, my point is this....you might enjoy hanging out with Gay men as friends. We make the best friends for women. I do not know why...maybe we are no threat (in any way), unless, of course, we are Serial Killer men, then avoid us.

    But, right now, I'm one of the popular people at work. (truly as the word is defined, not as in "clique driven")

    The reason why? The place I work has sooo many women ...probably 60 percent of the people where I work ARE WOMEN.

    But, remember, don't comment on this subject...its so controversial.

    Let's see, my comment on Egypt and what we should do is ...um, put an aircraft carrier off the coast...and just let it sit there and let people guess--

    Is it for the protestors or is it for Mubarak? (see, let's make them guess... but the terrorists will know exactly why it is there)

    Also, let's balance our budget slowly and inexorably and become solvent, therefore when we project power it will be economic power, not military power...no big military budgets and keep the domestic budget relatively stable.

    Then, in the future, when big crises occur we will have more leverage as we won't be seen as a power "in decline." Economic strength scares people these days (people being more informed now-a-days) more than military strength, because one can BUY weaponry, but not wealth..I least I do think that is true.

    See, I'm a somewhat intelligent "Gay." And I like history and am (told) that I'm good at grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

    Though, not the right man for you, as it were, so to speak.

    (just a little edgmucation, me being so Edgmucated)

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  • 20. At 07:17am on 10 Feb 2011, d_m wrote:

    #9, JMM:

    Don't know what the Saudi money will be used for, but it is being given to advance Saudi goals.

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  • 21. At 07:50am on 10 Feb 2011, eeyore wrote:

    #1,#2 and #11 LucyJ.

    Why are you peppering this comment page with your prejudices?

    Time you put the genie back in your bottle, methinks.

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  • 22. At 08:23am on 10 Feb 2011, worcesterjim wrote:

    America is causing havoc in the world because it has a split personality.

    It sets up the Mubaraks and Sadam Husseins and secretly allows/promotes security police to torture people who don`t allow American big business and the CIA to virtually run their country.

    But it lies to the American people about this and then makes them fight wars against the very same people it installed in the first place calling them brutal regimes that must be removed so that countries can have freedom and democracy.....but only if those brutal leaders stop doing what the US elite REALLY want!

    Look folks this is old British Empire behaviour perpetuated by your elite for Wall Street`s benefit.

    Capitalism doesn`t "do" freedom and democracy...it`s only ever about the bottom line...end of story!

    Examples of capitalism at work are China and Russia and the Phillipines and Brasil....lots and lots of slave labour being the key element.....and NO democracy and human rights!

    And that`s what the capitalist extremists that really run our nations are about doing to the UK and USA now....and you aren`t going to stop them unless you wake up fast!

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  • 23. At 08:58am on 10 Feb 2011, Extranea wrote:

    The US and the UK and many other "western" countries are in a dilemma over Egypt, Jordan and Tunisia - what to do?? Support democracy or a regime that supports our needs. This is the dilemma of democracy - it is sadly not necessarily in our national interest http://bit.ly/f6748i

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  • 24. At 09:34am on 10 Feb 2011, Amro wrote:

    The Dilemma of the American confused messages is created by fear of who will be in power in Egypt, especially Radical Islam, also as Suliman mentioned that the Egyptians are not ready for democracy, and that is true, but it is created by 41 years of oppression and corruption, so you can not ask the virus to be the cure (no hope that reform will come from the present regime).
    And for the International community to interfere in a constructive way and push towards real democracy without the fear of the outcome of democratization process, an autocratic government should take over immediately to work on stability, and constitutional reform for at least a year while the EU (not the US)helps political reform as follows:
    1- The start of a newly born democracy has to be based on the creation of new political parties dominated by the Egyptian youth that created the revolution.
    2- These parties should have a social development rule (this where the EU comes)to engage the local societies in development projects encouraging entrepreneurship and small businesses, health and education programmes, and urban enhancements. This step will take the ball out of the Muslim brotherhood, and expose their actual size of support within the society, as in the time being they are the only player in that field (social help for the poor), and this gives them more support than what they actually deserve.
    3- Social engagement of normal people in their local development will make them more loyal and welling to engage in the political arena, and that will get more players into the field, which will override the present parties, and I expect most of the present parties will dissolve or join the new parties.
    4- When everyone gets engaged in the new political process, especially the local development programmes, it will decrease the probability of extremism and trouble, and creates ties between different social classes, at the end if they feel that things are drifting to one direction or the other the majority will denounce it, and the security handling will be easier in this case.

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  • 25. At 10:29am on 10 Feb 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    The one thing both Obama and the BBC should be doing is emphasizing the threat of The Moslem brotherhood.

    They would turn Egypt into another theocratic terrorist nation where human rights would be non existant

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  • 26. At 10:57am on 10 Feb 2011, Robert Carroll wrote:

    I find the whole matter quite embarrassing. I’m an American citizen, I looked at yesterdays press briefing of press secretary, Robert Gibbs. And read what Vice President Joe Biden and PJ Crowely are saying to or about the Mubarak government. Then read President, Barack Obama’s statements. I don’t think there has ever been such a short sighted imbecilic crew running our executive branch ever. America should stand down and let the Mubarak government handle this matter the way the want.

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  • 27. At 11:10am on 10 Feb 2011, Chryses wrote:

    worcesterjim, (#22. At 08:23am on 10 Feb 2011)

    ”America is causing havoc in the world because it has a split personality.
    It sets up the Mubaraks ...”

    The U.S. did not install President Mubarak.
    If you knew your history, you would know that he became president following the assassination of President Sadat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosni_Mubarak#President_of_Egypt

    You are mistaken.

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  • 28. At 11:14am on 10 Feb 2011, _marko wrote:

    To MagicKirin #25
    Don't you feel that you should be more focussed on direct threats closer to home?
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/al-qaeda-populating-us-with-peaceful-decoy-muslims,18980/

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  • 29. At 12:16pm on 10 Feb 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref @8

    I look at lslamic facism as a worldwide threat, I think it is shorrt sighted to be provinicial.

    It is a problem here in Western Europe, Russia the middle east etc.

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  • 30. At 12:18pm on 10 Feb 2011, jay casey wrote:

    I have a feeling that if the US was able to do absolutely everything right, with perfect knowledge and even against its own interests, that most of the people that write comments on this site would still blame the US for something, anything. Of course, in the real world, the US administration cannot please even many of its own citizens - much less those who don't get to vote in its free elections. But in cases such as Egypt there is only so much the US can do to try to bend history in the right direction. But at least it is doing more than any other country to do so. The rest is up to the Egyptians.

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  • 31. At 1:05pm on 10 Feb 2011, Tim wrote:

    1. At 11:07pm on 09 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    What right do we have to tell Egypt how to run their country?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    None whatsoever.

    But we do have the right to decide how much financial aid to give Egypt. Anything between $100bn and nothing at all. And the Egyptian economy needs aid right now, the protests have severely damaged it.

    So if the Egyptian regime doesn't do what we want, fine - but it forfeits our financial aid if it doesn't.

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  • 32. At 1:16pm on 10 Feb 2011, McJakome wrote:

    24. At 09:34am on 10 Feb 2011, Amro wrote a very interesting post.
    The part about banning political parties seems reasonable in the circumstances, but would be quite a problem in fact.

    The Wafd goes back to the monarchy and is a traditional party, other parties have strong supporters. Thus party banning is undemocratic and could be counter productive. What happens in Turkey is that banned parties just come back under a different name.

    Other than that it looks like a reasonable program. However, does Europe have the stomach for intervention, and even if so will it prove to be really different from an American intervention? The French and Italians will certainly be looking after their business friends just like the American government.

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  • 33. At 2:02pm on 10 Feb 2011, ums wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 34. At 3:14pm on 10 Feb 2011, Ad wrote:

    The Middle East game is a very big game and there are big beasts to deal with. America could completely isolate itself from this crisis, as could the main European countries. They could resist interfering, indeed, and it's tempting to say 'Let Egypt look after itself'. And I'm in favour of a very cautious and as-far-as-possible hands-off approach to the Egyytian crisis.

    However, I don't think that the US 6th and 5th Fleets (Lucy J, hi!) would be of much use in protecting the Mexican Border against infiltration by illegal immigrants. Aircraft carriers wouldn't fit too easily into the Rio Grande!

    But along with all the European and Turkish ships of Combined Task Force 150 at present engaged in combatting the Somali Pirates, the fleets need easy and rapid communication from the Mediterranean to the Red Sea and beyond, via the Suez Canal. A stable Egypt is vital for the security of the Canal, for military and merchant shipping. And it is vital for the pursuance of American foreign policy as it now stands.

    I make no argument in support of US foreign policy. But it is impossible for the Administration not to wish a hand -or even a finger - on the helm of the Egyptian ship-of-state, given the high stakes being played for. Think oil, Israel, global maritime communication, Middle East stability, possible extension of democatic-style governments in North Africa & the Middle East.....

    It's a very big game and America must walk softly whilst speaking out on behalf of the oppressed and tortured, and keeping a very close eye on developments.

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  • 35. At 3:46pm on 10 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Jace: Wouldn't US involvement in helping to secure a peaceful transition of power in Egypt qualify as defending America against foreign enemies?
    ------------------
    Perhaps, but its still their country...I would think that if Mubarack suddenly left, lots of rough groups would spring up in his absence and it could be much worse than the chaos is even now...
    ----------------
    Jace: By the way, it is ALREADY a crime to employ an illegal alien in the US under Section 274A of the Immigration and Nationality Act and Section 8 United States Code 1324(a).
    www.uscis.gov/laws for more info
    -------------
    So why did Obama and feds sue states that are trying to enforce this law?

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  • 36. At 3:49pm on 10 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Stevenson: I want to tell you about Gay people...for reasons...you might like, LucyJ

    ------------

    U're talking to the wrong person here about such...


    U have no idea how much I dislike...

    Altho I am usually calm, as a female, I can also be ruthless...

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  • 37. At 3:51pm on 10 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Tim wrote: So if the Egyptian regime doesn't do what we want, fine - but it forfeits our financial aid if it doesn't.
    ---------
    So shoudl we wait to see who the next regime is before saying we will give them money?

    Cause what if Obama promises the money if Mubarack resigns, and then a rogue regime that is anti-USA rises up and democratically takes the crown?

    If such happened, it would not be wise to promise money to people we don;'t know simply because Mubarack resigns...

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  • 38. At 4:12pm on 10 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Ad wrote: However, I don't think that the US 6th and 5th Fleets (Lucy J, hi!) would be of much use in protecting the Mexican Border against infiltration by illegal immigrants
    ---------

    Who is going to stop the illegal foreign invasion?

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  • 39. At 4:35pm on 10 Feb 2011, DavidfromCal wrote:

    @ LucyJ,

    LucyJ, LucyJ, your ignorance just shines through. If you really did take the oath I think you're referring to, the same one I did, you should know the oath is to protect and defend THE CONSTITUTION, from all enemies foreign and domestic. The "country", the "nation", "America", and similar notions are too vague. Your oath is to defend our fundamental law. Now, given Barack Obama was elected president, fair and square, within the bounds of our laws, and given what you call Obamacare was duly enacted by our elected Congress, also within the bounds of our laws, your off topic rant just reveals your...hmm...vapidity. Yes, I think I can get away with saying that on this
    site.

    In one post you say you "would think" something would happen if Mubarak left immediately. That's the problem with you, and those like you, you think very quickly but very sloppily. You think, but you don't know. And it's obvious you know nothing about Egyptian politics or history, or our history with Mubarak, with his predecessor, or their history of being dominated by foreign colonialist powers as recently as the 1920s.

    So, since you know none of this about Egypt, and since you seem to know as much about our own country as you do theirs, would you kindly just shut up and stop embarrassing us on foreign news sites? Please?
    I'm sick of having to apologize for ignorant Americans like you. I've had to do it on three continents now and I'm tired of it.
    Get a library card, read for a few years, unlearn your propaganda, learn some facts and history, and then join us. OK?

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  • 40. At 4:41pm on 10 Feb 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 35. At 3:46pm on 10 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:
    "Jace: By the way, it is ALREADY a crime to employ an illegal alien in the US under Section 274A of the Immigration and Nationality Act and Section 8 United States Code 1324(a).
    www.uscis.gov/laws for more info
    -------------
    So why did Obama and feds sue states that are trying to enforce this law?"

    Can you please provide a link to evidence that 'Obama and feds sue states that are trying to enforce this law'?

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  • 41. At 7:41pm on 10 Feb 2011, Ad wrote:

    39 David from Cal,

    That's unfair. LucyJ - and many others - may say things that we disagree with, or are factually incorrect but I will defend her right to say them. Just as I'd defend yours. That's what blogs are about - but yes, I do agree, there are an awful lot of unfounded inexactitudes (newly invented term!) on blogs.

    IMPORTANT:
    Has everyone heard that it looks as if the Army is taking the reins of power in Egypt and Mubarak may be on his way out? The situation, if true, is now even more unpredictable and will need calm nerves on both sides of the Atlantic (and Mediterranean).

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  • 42. At 11:25pm on 10 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    David: If you really did take the oath I think you're referring to, the same one I did
    ---------
    From your blog, I'm not surprised u're from Cali...

    Anyhew, I do swear to defend my country from enemies, both foreign and domestic. I also grew up in a school where we said the Pledge of Allegience every day. At family reunions where there are a lot of veterans, we still say the Pledge of Allegience and also prayer to God.
    In our town and all the ones around us, our soldiers' names are lined up and down the streets, tis a source of great pride, the Vets wear their hats and drink beer at VFW, everyone plays Bingo together and all is well and fun...that's Americana for ya...
    ----------
    David: your off topic rant
    ---------
    Excuse me for wanting to talk about somethign besides Egypt!
    ----------
    David: So, since you know none of this about Egypt, and since you seem to know as much about our own country as you do theirs, would you kindly just shut up and stop embarrassing us on foreign news sites? Please?
    -----------
    Nope!!! :)

    The more people tell me not to blog, the more it makes me want to blog!
    000000000
    -------------
    David: I'm sick of having to apologize for ignorant Americans like you.
    ------------
    Why would you apologize for someone else?
    That's your own deal...
    -----------
    David: I've had to do it on three continents now and I'm tired of it.
    Get a library card, read for a few years, unlearn your propaganda, learn some facts and history, and then join us. OK?
    ----------
    Sounds boring...

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  • 43. At 11:32pm on 10 Feb 2011, Norman Conquest wrote:


    Show them LucyJ!!! Show them what you've got! I mean it's time for the claws to come out.

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  • 44. At 11:58pm on 10 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Ad: may say things that we disagree with, or are factually incorrect but I will defend her right to say them. Just as I'd defend yours. That's what blogs are about - but yes, I do agree, there are
    -----------

    Its the ultraliberalism shining through!!!

    The good thign is we're not all alike or that would be really boring!
    ---------
    John: Can you please provide a link to evidence that 'Obama and feds sue states that are trying to enforce this law'?
    ---------
    Well, its true that I read this about the time that all the debate in Arizona was going on, so it was some time back. I did find...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110116/pl_ac/7621690_states_take_on_illegal_immigration_while_feds_stay_mum_1

    An excerpt:
    In spite of the federal government's inability to deal with the illegal immigration problem head-on, the Arizona showdown has proven that attorneys are quick to file suit if they perceive an encroaching on federal enforcement rights.

    A lot of media is pro-illegal, so its hard to find things that are being hidden away...

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  • 45. At 00:03am on 11 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    http://www.kvoa.com/news/rancher-loses-appeal-for-assault-claims-from-illegal-immigrants

    http://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-arizona-rancher-20110205,0,3565283.story%3ftrack=rss

    An excerpt:
    A federal appeals court rules that Arizona rancher Roger Barnett must pay $87,000 to four illegal immigrants he detained at gunpoint. The court says the immigrants were not armed and didn't threaten him. A federal appeals court has upheld a controversial verdict that an Arizona rancher must pay $87,000 to four illegal immigrants he detained at gunpoint while they were crossing his property.
    ------------

    So if a bunch of illegal foreigners illegally trespass on your property, you can't understand them, you are an older man who is frightened by the many youngsters and hold them til the cops get there, you must pay the illegals money???

    Isn't this wrong?

    Why are our federal courts defending trespassing illegals against Americans?

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  • 46. At 00:12am on 11 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Now lets see if this bill passes or if Obama tries to stop it...

    http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/new-ga-bill-targets-illegal-immigrants-and-government-officials-who-hire-them-826516.html%3fcxtype=ynews_rss

    An excerpt:
    The Obama administration sued last year to stop similar provisions in Arizona’s law from taking effect, arguing they are pre-empted by federal law. A federal judge ruled in favor of the White House last year, halting those provisions as well as several others.

    --------
    I believe they are also suing against the e-verify...its just hard to find info on an ultraliberal media agenda website...

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  • 47. At 00:16am on 11 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    How much does Cali spend on illegals every year?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110126/tr_ac/7705224_california_spends_21_billion_annually_to_support_undocumented_immigrants_1

    AN excerpt:
    In fact, nationwide California leads the pack with an expenditure of $21 billion on illegal aliens (compare this to the $84.2 billion figure that denotes the statewide cost for undocumented workers across the nation.)It is interesting to note that next week California Gov. Jerry Brown is scheduled to deliver his state of the state address to the legislature and the electorate. A $25.4 billion deficit faces the state by June 2012.

    --------
    Is it not ironic that the state deficit is almost the same amount as what is spent on illegals?

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  • 48. At 00:41am on 11 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110119/us_ac/7643950_unskilled_immigrant_labor_is_good_for_america_really_1

    An excerpt:
    In spite of language barriers, the workers whom the theorist describes as being "low-educated" are routinely placed in positions of consumer interaction. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that low-skilled native workers are competing for these positions with low-skilled immigrant laborers. When pointing to the cost aspect of labor, the author of the study tacitly approves of wages that fall below the federal minimum wage.
    ----------------

    So, alright, John, you can celebrate because I cannot quite find it...but I know I read it somewhere...lost in cyberspace...

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  • 49. At 2:40pm on 11 Feb 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 48. At 00:41am on 11 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    ”So, alright, John, you can celebrate because I cannot quite find it...but I know I read it somewhere...lost in cyberspace”

    No, you didn’t read that the government was suing a State for enforcing US law – that would be ludicrous and illegal.

    What you may have read was that the Federal Govt was taking legal action against a State that was introducing State legislation that it considered illegal. Even then, I assume that all it could do would be take the State to court, since in the end only judges can determine whether legislation is constitutional or not.

    Or the other possibility, since in LucyWorld anything you dislike is down to ‘ultraliberals’, is that sneaky ultraliberals ultraliberally snuck into your house and ultraliberally stole the article from your PC. Or else an ultraliberal journalist from an ultraliberal media outlet ultraliberally snuck onto the ultraliberal Web and ultraliberally deleted the article.

    See how ludicrous it looks when one keeps meaninglessly parroting ‘ultraliberal’?

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  • 50. At 3:43pm on 11 Feb 2011, Mirino wrote:

    Maybe that's the way Obama would like it to be. There were lots of 'I told you so's' regarding Iraq, that all ended up being somewhat disappointed. I hope that the same will be the case with Egypt. Again the US democrats are convinced that impressive mobs in the streets of Cairo represent the voice of Egypt's population.
    It should be a walk-over in the USA should a couple of thousand people ever protest in Washington for whatever. Maybe Obama will then step down and seek refuge in Tahiti.

    Mubarak is not likely to appreciate such unnecessary pressure. This US government thinks they can buy off any government anywhere.
    If 'it's what the Egyptian people want that matters', then the White House should make more of a serious effort to find out more exactly what it is, because going by a angry, inflexible and unreasonable bunch, even numbering a couple of thousand, isn't a very advanced study considering Egypt's immense population.

    The most dangerous period is between now and the next two weeks or so. If Mubarak is very careful and as intelligent as he seems, he may be able to convince his people that they should trust him, that his decision is also their guarantee, and that they have no other better alternative in any case.

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  • 51. At 3:50pm on 11 Feb 2011, pete wrote:

    it does make one query why someone does not wish to give up power so much, he has money, houses, is there something deeper? i am not mistaken the previous president was assainated while he was vice president, then refused to have a vice president, and brought in emergency laws..perhaps we need to look back 30 years to see a reason? or am i just listening to television too much, i put my hands up i apologise if i'm wrong but...

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  • 52. At 11:40pm on 11 Feb 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Yeah, yeah, John...

    I know I have it in one of my previous posts, but its hard to find cause' written so many and not feeling like making the effort...celebrate all ya want to! Lol...

    ultraliberalism is real, John.

    You are prime example.

    But its alright if ya don't quite get it.

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