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The real comeback kid

Mark Mardell | 15:24 UK time, Monday, 3 January 2011

"The Comeback kid" is an overused term in American politics, first applied to Bill Clinton, now used for any politicians who may be experiencing something of a renaissance, including Obama.


Jerry Brown

But surely no-one deserves the title more than Jerry Brown who becomes California's governor today. It's his third term. His first two were between 1975 and 83. When first took office Harold Wilson was prime minister in Britain. The outgoing governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, hadn't thought about becoming the Terminator, let alone the "Governator", and was still gleaming and posing his way to the title of Mr Universe, as detailed in the film Pumping Iron.

I am about halfway through a new biography of Schwarzenegger, "The Govenator" by Ian Halperin and it makes fascinating reading. The central character of most political biographies features a man or woman who has never done anything outside politics unless it is being a lawyer. I have certainly never before read so much about steroids and flexing. According to the book Schwarzenegger couldn't bear not winning, not being the best of the best. It is by no means certain he'll get that title as California's 38th governor.

But what of the old new kid on the block? In his first terms of office Brown was nicknamed "Governor Moonbeam" for what one columnist considered his far out ways, including extending California's space programme. The journalist later recanted.

Brown dated the singer Linda Ronstadt, and lived not in the mansion but a modest flat. Liberals at least will see Brown as well ahead of the times in his concern for gay rights, opposition to the death penalty and enthusiastic backing of green projects.

Brown faces huge challenges. California, which would be eighth in world economic ranking if it was a country, faces bankruptcy. Although one conservative magazine suggested that in his first terms Brown was more of a fiscal conservative than Reagan, it will be hard to turn on friends in the unions and force deep cuts. Indeed, his economic programme seems the familiar theme (from Obama to the UK and the EU) of creating green jobs mixed with equally familiar ideas of cutting red tape and more nebulous ones of encouraging manufacturing. We'll be watching to see if Moonbeam can cut through the fog that has descended on the Golden State.

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  • 1. At 4:54pm on 03 Jan 2011, Juan in Florida wrote:

    Pretty sure that Florida is the Sunshine state whereas California is known as the Golden state.

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  • 2. At 5:18pm on 03 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    MM: "But what of the old new kid on the block?"


    A new kid?

    A worn out oldie who's already made a name for himself as "Governor Moonbeam" many decades ago?


    Although it is true the "labor unionists" and dazed hippies have been traditionally those who've staunchly supported him.

    And that he'd probably make someone like Harold Wilson proud.

    However I'm not sure that can could be considered a politician's asset in the second decade of the XXIst century.

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  • 3. At 5:19pm on 03 Jan 2011, Mark Watkins wrote:

    "Brown was more of a fiscal conservative than Regan"

    Would that be Regan from The Sweeney?

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  • 4. At 5:20pm on 03 Jan 2011, ann arbor wrote:

    Ah, so the man that instituted the policies that have matured to render California insolvent is now back at the helm.

    I sincerely hope California is forced into bankruptcy and Obama does not "participate". The unsupportable contracts Brown made years ago need to be "renegotiated".

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  • 5. At 5:22pm on 03 Jan 2011, Philly-Mom wrote:

    And thus the Gubinator is Terminated...

    California is an interesting place to watch.
    If any state is capable of doing the unexpected and producing people who defy stereotypes... it's California.

    Best of luck to Mr.Brown!
    He certainly has his work cut out for him.

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  • 6. At 5:48pm on 03 Jan 2011, africanfootballer wrote:

    Decent article until the end where some of your credibility was lost due to you calling California the Sunshine state. That would be Florida. Hope it was just a typo, and you meant the Golden State.

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  • 7. At 6:02pm on 03 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    Jerry Brown was the one insituted the California state employee pension and benefit ddisaster.

    He also ran a very dirty campaign with the illegal immigrant Nikki Diaz and Gloria alread.

    the problem is the rest of us will pay for California vorters stupidity

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  • 8. At 6:10pm on 03 Jan 2011, David wrote:

    Ronald REAGAN was a former Governor of the Golden State and President of the US. Donald REGAN was Secretary of the Treasury from approximately 1981 to 1985 in the administration of President Reagan. Not sure if the writer means Reagan or Regan when he refers to Regan.

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  • 9. At 7:05pm on 03 Jan 2011, Scott0962 wrote:

    Well, if they're crazy enough to re-elect Jerry Brown then Californians deserve him. I wouldn't bet on him having any better luck than Schwarzenegger in successfully addressing the Golden State's problems though.

    As MagicKirin pointed out, California's propensity for enacting programs without worrying how to pay for them has made the state's budget unmanageable and unfortunately it's Congressional clout virtually guaruntees the rest of the U.S. will be subsidizing their political incompetence for decades to come.

    I absolutely shudder every time I hear one of my state's Democrat legislators refer to "how California does it" to justify some well intentioned but underfunded proposal to create a new government program!

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  • 10. At 7:05pm on 03 Jan 2011, CraigMorecambe wrote:

    David,

    Mark must have meant President Reagan as the 'Regan' link compares Brown to Reagan. I'm sure he'll correct it as soon as he reads the comments.

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  • 11. At 7:19pm on 03 Jan 2011, mscracker wrote:

    Scott0962 wrote:"Well, if they're crazy enough to re-elect Jerry Brown then Californians deserve him."

    Pretty much like the folks in New Orleans who re-elected Mayor Nagin after Katrina.Just makes you wonder...

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  • 12. At 7:22pm on 03 Jan 2011, jeffzekas wrote:

    My folks moved to California in 1950 because it was the most modern state in the USA, with jobs, agriculture and the best roads and transportation. Now, sixty-one years later, many industries have left the state, illegal immigration and drugs are rampant, and many folks are on the dole. Can Governor Moonbeam fix these problems? Say what you will about Jerry Brown's politics, he is an extremely moral individual (he studied for the priesthood) and extremely idealistic (not a bad quality, if one wants to move into the 21st century). Like most Californians, I am willing to give him a chance-- a chance to make changes, to bring California back to its former status and a leader in culture, technology and social progress.

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  • 13. At 7:33pm on 03 Jan 2011, Daniel Kian Mc Kiernan wrote:

    Brown has since reversed himself on the death penalty, and lives in a mansion. The name of the California Governor (and later US President) is spelled “Reagan”. The fog over Florida (the Sunshine State) is impenetrable.

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  • 14. At 7:39pm on 03 Jan 2011, heretic wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 15. At 8:00pm on 03 Jan 2011, burmabill wrote:

    Why would anyone care what Mark Mardell thinks he is not living here in California. And knows little about what its like here.

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  • 16. At 8:07pm on 03 Jan 2011, baircash wrote:

    Part of California's problem is the that Legislature is made of extremes of the right & left. They can/ could not compromise on anything Districts were gerrymandered to protect the seat. After the most recent census, the state has to reallocate the various voting ditricts. I believe that the state is experimenting with a non partisan board to determin the districts strictly by population. It is thought that as candidates have to appeal to a broader base, the views will become more moderate hopefully leading to a more compromise friendly legislature. Gov Brown just might be the beneficiary & wind up looking like a hero

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  • 17. At 8:09pm on 03 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    "Say what you will about Jerry Brown's politics, he is an extremely moral individual (he studied for the priesthood)"




    Well, anybody who's been reading news in the last couple of years might doubt whether studying to become a priest, let alone being one, makes one automatically a moral person.

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  • 18. At 8:15pm on 03 Jan 2011, BluesBerry wrote:

    Can Moonbeam succeed where The Terminator failed?
    Since 1975, Jerry Brown will encounter more diverse problems, such as California's more diverse population and its flailing economy.
    Back in 1975, the US economy was emerging from a recession – though the state jobless rate of 9% couldn't hold a candle to today's dismal 12%.
    "The state of affairs" (so to speak) have changed dramatically.
    1. The budget deficit is estimated at $25.5B.
    2. there's haze over California (polution) and the roads are congested as well as deteriorating. Deteriorating roads suit the deteriorating highways, levees and dams.
    3. The national media (not just the locals) are writing about the state's decline.
    4. The middle class is disappearing (i.e. getting out).
    5. Businesses are complaining - taxes, fees much too high.
    Unless Jerry Brown has changed as much as California (since 1975), he's going to be one dismal moonbeam.
    Voters' votes however bespoke hope (or desperation), handing Brown - a lifelong Democrat - a 54% victory in November over Republican Meg Whitman.
    I suppose the good news may be that Brown can throw himself into California; that is, is not likely to have aspirations for higher office.
    I suppose the bad news is that the recession is HUGE; the deficit is HUGE. The problems are HUGE.
    But then Jerry Brown (at least the 1975 version) was always a fighter and extremely spontaneous – qualities that won him praise & the opposite of praise.
    Brown has honed his political credentials since 1975; he has served 2 terms as mayor of Oakland and two terms as state attorney general. These experiences have added to his experience, his wisdon, or should have.
    He has 2 other matters going for him:
    Voters in November approved two measures that are expected to make it easier to govern California.
    a) One will allow the legislature to pass a budget with a simple majority vote, rather than the current two-thirds requirement. Good-bye annual budget gridlock!
    b) The other will revise the way the state draws legislative districts, potentially reducing gerrymandering to protect incumbents who tend to be non-compromising and rather old-fashioned. Redistricting, which takes place this year and should be complete for the 2012 election, will now be in the objective hands of a Citizens Commission vs. state legislators.
    Jerry Brown (I think) remains fire & brimstone. Even before he was sworn in, he convened a town-hall-style meeting, talked apocalyptic language – and proceeded to describe the budget deficit that lies ahead and what must be done, though specific cuts were not mentioned...yet.
    This will come in Sacramento Jan. 10, 2011.

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  • 19. At 8:16pm on 03 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    "Mark must have meant President Reagan as the 'Regan' link compares Brown to Reagan."



    Well, nobody has got irated by that mistake.


    But imagine what would have happened if Mark had written 'Osama' instead of 'Obama'.

    [much more dangerous than confusing Ronald with Donald]

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  • 20. At 8:16pm on 03 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Jeff wrote: Now, sixty-one years later, many industries have left the state, illegal immigration and drugs are rampant, and many folks are on the dole.
    ---------------
    Well, lets face it. Marijuana was rampant in the 60's.
    Today it still is, especially in Cali, but really all across USA.

    However, if you look at pictures of Californians from the 60's, the majority of them were white, asian or black with a small amount of mexicans...now almost half, maybe even more, of the population is hispanic...

    Obviously, the entire demographics of Cali have changed and will never be the same.

    I kinda feel like Cali's already gone myself.

    Its a beautiful place, tho. I was lucky to visit my relatives there a year or so ago and it is stunning. And that's just the landscape. The people there are gorgeous, too, likely due to their very healthy lifestyles and exercising and Hollywood's obsession with plastic surgery and having the perfect body, as well...

    California is almost like its own country, just the way that New York's almost like its own country. They are very into themselves. Sometimes I feel like they forget the rest of the country exists...

    One of Cali's new mantra is making cheese and having happy cows. But no matter how much cheese Cali makes, the best cheese in USA is Wisconsin!!!

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  • 21. At 8:24pm on 03 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    bair wrote: Part of California's problem is the that Legislature is made of extremes of the right & left.
    ----------
    This is very true. I know there was one person who was running for judge and told they could not be a judge because that person was against gay marriage...

    Ironic how ultraliberals often like to control things, isn't it?

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  • 22. At 8:26pm on 03 Jan 2011, anonymousnotapathetic wrote:

    Perhaps I misunderstood the author when he said "it is by no means certain he'll get that title as California's 38th governor.' in reference to the "best of the best" and Schwarzenegger? Am I missing the sarcasm? Isn't Schwarzenegger the one who thought it a good idea cut funding to thousands of foster youth, foster families and social agencies working to protect those children without a home of their own? throw them under the bus and then blow it up? I suppose it was in the best interest of California...


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  • 23. At 8:36pm on 03 Jan 2011, crash wrote:

    California is in the same position as Greece,way to much spending,way to much taxing,way to much regulation.What business person of today in their right mind would even consider California as a home base ?

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  • 24. At 8:36pm on 03 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    anonymous wrote: Isn't Schwarzenegger the one who thought it a good idea cut funding to thousands of foster youth, foster families and social agencies working to protect those children without a home of their own? throw them under the bus and then blow it up? I suppose it was in the best interest of California...
    ------------
    anonymous,
    You won't find many nicer than Schwarzenegger. He wants to help people, but he also has to balance the budget. How is he supposed to support foster youth and social agencies with no money?


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  • 25. At 8:38pm on 03 Jan 2011, Philly-Mom wrote:

    RE Blues #18
    "Jerry Brown (I think) remains fire & brimstone. Even before he was sworn in, he convened a town-hall-style meeting, talked apocalyptic language – and proceeded to describe the budget deficit that lies ahead and what must be done, though specific cuts were not mentioned...yet."

    Well, folks don't like budget cuts, but gosh darn it --
    doesn't everyone love apocalyptic lingo?
    It's just so delightfully exciting!

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  • 26. At 8:40pm on 03 Jan 2011, tuulen wrote:


    The sobriquet Governor Moonbeam could have been appropriate a few decades ago, but by reputation in the years since then perhaps Governor Waffle could be more appropriate today. He goes Left and then he goes Right, but nobody knows just which way he goes next. California as a state has one of the world's largest economies, yet for budgetary reasons now finds itself somewhere near bankruptcy, and Californians have now returned the enigmatic Governor Brown to the governance of California.

    The drama here is tremendous!

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  • 27. At 8:43pm on 03 Jan 2011, Philly-Mom wrote:

    BTW LucyJ, Cali is even MORE like its own country than New York State. That's why it's so fun to watch. Texas, too. (sry)
    -- Of course, it'd be even funnier if either of 'em actually tried to secede...

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  • 28. At 8:44pm on 03 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    "One of Cali's new mantra is making cheese and having happy cows. But no matter how much cheese Cali makes"





    Lucy, last time I checked Cali was still into producing and distributing drugs, not cheese, making quite a few members of that cartel happy.

    Unless you're referring to the Golden State whose voters haven't made their minds yet whether to rein in its deficit by legalizing marijuana production, so they have to say 'cheese' even if they don't feel like it.

    [Although perhaps with Gov. Moonbeam's little prodding... :-)]

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  • 29. At 9:07pm on 03 Jan 2011, Tinkersdamn wrote:

    Thanks for the link to The American Conservative- it's not a source I would normally have gone to, but I think it got it straight in both substance and tone.

    California has roughly a budget of $85 billion with a projected deficit of $25.5 to $28 billion (depending on the source), during a time of recession and 12% unemployment.

    Brown told his listeners today: "I have not come here to embrace delay or denial."

    It seems to me, between the town hall type meeting with assemblymen and public last month, and an expressed desire to place economic options on the ballot, Brown is doing all he can to increase public awareness of reality in an effort to make people sober in their approach, to act beyond cannibalistic self interest- right or left, and, mostly, to awaken in order to solve their communal plight.

    If Brown and the people of California succeed, our nation will have a needed opportunity to learn.

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  • 30. At 10:36pm on 03 Jan 2011, smit_4758 wrote:

    Mr. Mardell,

    Please be sure to fact check and spell check in your future blog posts. California is most certainly not the "Sunshine State," as that distinction belongs to Florida. Additionally, unless you are referring to someone else and I am merely mistaken, "Regan" should properly be spelt Reagan, as in President Ronald Reagan.

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  • 31. At 11:09pm on 03 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:



    LL Cool J - Going Back To Cali


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdizL4on-Rc

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  • 32. At 11:10pm on 03 Jan 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 7 MagicKirin wrote:

    “Jerry Brown was the one insituted (sic) the California state employee pension and benefit ddisaster (sic).

    He also ran a very dirty campaign with the illegal immigrant Nikki Diaz and Gloria already (sic).

    the (sic) problem is the rest of us will pay for California vorters (sic squared) stupidity”

    For those who don’t speak MK, by ‘stupidity’ he means ‘having the audacity not to vote Republican, like MK thinks they should.’

    He has already pointed out that he is (in his own opinion at least) smarter than the average voter, because he didn’t vote for Obama. Presumably, therefore he voted for those political and intellectual powerhouses, McCain and Palin...

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  • 33. At 11:15pm on 03 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #25 26 27

    There is still a disconect between public employes and the rest of us.

    Public employees think they all earn their inflated salaries and perks.

    The NY that did the plowing think no one care they delayed it with a work stoppage.

    A smart politician would annouce he would privatise as much as possible. Overnight he would become the most popular legislator in the state.

    We have something called the Pacheco law which drives up cost by nandating union wage instead of markert rate.

    Show your spirit break through a picket line

    Support your local Scab!

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  • 34. At 11:23pm on 03 Jan 2011, BUDDY-IN-PA wrote:

    AND SO THE REPUPBLICAN PIGAN POOP HAS FINALLY STARTED TO STINK AND THE VOTERS OF CALIFORNIA HAVE AWOKEN TO THE REALITY THAT THE COMMON MAN MUST TAKE CHARGE OF HIS OWN DESTINANY AND NOT BE WAITING ON REAGAN DREAMS OR REPUBLICAN SMOKE AND MIRRORS TO GET THEM THROUGH REALITY !!!

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  • 35. At 11:30pm on 03 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #32
    For those who don’t speak MK, by ‘stupidity’ he means ‘having the audacity not to vote Republican, like MK thinks they should.’

    He has already pointed out that he is (in his own opinion at least) smarter than the average voter, because he didn’t vote for Obama. Presumably, therefore he voted for those political and intellectual powerhouses, McCain and Palin...

    _______________

    No actually unlike you I look beyond party, I've voted for Clinton.

    But if the choice is between a liberal who has alawys supported unions or a sucessful business person when the economy is in shambles.

    BTW McCain is far smarter than Obama, and in the case of Palin, Obama only demonstated superiority is telepromter reading

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  • 36. At 00:17am on 04 Jan 2011, JClarkson wrote:

    Jerry Brown as the "comeback kid"? Er, no. More like Jerry Brown, The Sequel. And we should all know how badly sequels tend to suck.

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  • 37. At 00:20am on 04 Jan 2011, Fledermaus_63 wrote:

    I'm not surprised that California is going bankrupt, the income tax rates there are very low: http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_statetaxrate_ca.html
    The state doesn't collect enough money to run efficiently. :0/

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  • 38. At 00:31am on 04 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    BTW McCain is far smarter than Obama,
    and in the case of Palin, Obama only demonstated superiority is telepromter reading
    ====================================================
    kiririin you are an absolute genius. you should be president and not invite Michelle to your parties

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  • 39. At 00:57am on 04 Jan 2011, JClarkson wrote:

    #37

    "I'm not surprised that California is going bankrupt, the income tax rates there are very low..."

    6th highest in the country.


    http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/15.html

    Surely, you were sarcastic. Or misinformed. Or living in one of the other 5, higher taxed states and therefore jealous. I suggest you go with the first excuse.

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  • 40. At 00:58am on 04 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Pmk wrote: Lucy, last time I checked Cali was still into producing and distributing drugs, not cheese, making quite a few members of that cartel happy.
    ----------------
    Have you seen the commercials>?
    Its happy cows having 'happy' milk and 'happy' cheese!

    Lol....for whatever the reason, we get Cali and NY news...Cali is more of health conscious, anything about health and calories and green, there's a lot of sex crimes/kidnappings in Cali, while NYC is more about the big money, the business, the imports, and there are a lot of robberies...also NYC has a lot of mixed hispanics- Puerto Rican, Salvadorian, Spanish, while Cali has a lot of Mexican hispanics...
    -----------------
    Pmk wrote: Unless you're referring to the Golden State whose voters haven't made their minds yet whether to rein in its deficit by legalizing marijuana production, so they have to say 'cheese' even if they don't feel like it.
    ------------------
    It would be Cali's ticket out of debt...

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  • 41. At 01:03am on 04 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    PhillyMom wrote: BTW LucyJ, Cali is even MORE like its own country than New York State. That's why it's so fun to watch. Texas, too. (sry)
    -- Of course, it'd be even funnier if either of 'em actually tried to secede...
    ---------------------------
    Chicago is a huge city, but I don't feel like Illinois is its own country...we are pretty close with Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, ect. and get along with all our neighbors...cause' we're all pretty chill in the Midwest...I feel connected to the rest of our country...

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  • 42. At 01:14am on 04 Jan 2011, Scott0962 wrote:

    re. #18 by Bluesberry;

    Interesting observations but I don't put much credence in Brown's fire and brimstone speech about the state's budget problems. Every governor is making that same speech these days, heck Schwarzenegger made similar comments when he took office but the reality is governors propose budgets but legislators are the ones who actually enact them and California's legislature is notoriously willing to pander to the state's electorate to buy their votes with programs and projects that the state can't really afford but is unwilling to say no to.

    You can see the smae thing happening in many states but California, as usual, is the trendsetter and with it's large Congressional delegation (and presidential electors) it is already "too big to fail" no matter how poorly the state manages it's affairs.

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  • 43. At 02:10am on 04 Jan 2011, rodidog wrote:

    I like Jerry Brown. He might very well surprise everyone by forcing California to make difficult choices for the very reason that he once was "Governor Moonbeam". Supposedly, he will start the budget process from scratch and require each department to justify their budget from zero rather than the previous year. That sounds like a good start if it actually happens that way.

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  • 44. At 02:17am on 04 Jan 2011, TD19 wrote:

    Not much actual news here. Actual news would be that Gov Schwarzenegger commuted the sentence, on his last day in office, of a barroom murderer who is the son of the former Assembly Speaker. Former Assemblyman Fabian Nunez of San Diego, although a Democrat, was one of the Gov's closest allies. "Tough on Crime" is, as usual, not applied to those with connections. Presumably Arnold was back in California for that since he was absent during the severe flooding--the Governor leaves his office at the state line and Arnold spent a LOT of time on vacation during his tenure. Hope he had a good time in office. He was the only one who did.

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  • 45. At 02:20am on 04 Jan 2011, BROWNED_OFF AND CONNED wrote:

    "California, which would be eighth in world economic ranking if it was a country, faces bankruptcy. "

    The correct English is "if it WERE a country"...

    It's a sad reflection of the educational standards in this country, as well as poor professional standards within the BBC, when a leading journalist in the leading British media company makes such elementary mistakes in the use of English!



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  • 46. At 03:04am on 04 Jan 2011, Curt Carpenter wrote:

    For some reason, the fiscal situations in California, New York, Ohio, my own state (Texas) -- and many others -- calls to mind the scene from Doctor Strangelove where Slim Pickens rides his fully-armed nuke out of the B52's bomb bay, waving his hat and offering up an honest rebel yell on his way down...

    Maybe the mental link is by way of Slim Pickens -- which is what the lower half of our people are going to have to learn to live with on a regular basis starting real soon now.

    If Brown can slow the descent of his bomb, the people of California will have been well served.

    PS At least Brown isn't telling everyone that former Governor RayGun's "trickle down" Economics is the answer.

    PPS Since Mississippi is already dirt poor, Haley Barbour's state will fare better than most over the next two years. That's one reason why he's the GOP's man to watch in 2012.


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  • 47. At 03:38am on 04 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    "Jerry Brown as the "comeback kid"? Er, no. More like Jerry Brown, The Sequel. And we should all know how badly sequels tend to suck."




    Perhaps if he chose as a his lieutenant-governor somebody called Ben and advertized their duo as Ben&Jerry he might yet gain popularity.

    At least among kids.

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  • 49. At 03:57am on 04 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    RHammond wrote, quoting #37

    "I'm not surprised that California is going bankrupt, the income tax rates there are very low..."



    6th highest in the country.


    http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/15.html

    Surely, you were sarcastic. Or misinformed. Or living in one of the other 5, higher taxed states and therefore jealous. I suggest you go with the first excuse.'






    There are still some economic dinosaurs who don't understand that if a state (including a federal one) wants to increase its revenues it should lower taxes.

    Unless it wants to decrease them; then it should, of course raise taxes.

    [works like a charm every time]


    P.S. Should I really explain why so many business, including major employers, have left the Golden State for adjacent Nevada?

    Or even move as far as Delaware?

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  • 50. At 04:01am on 04 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    Re #40


    Lucy, just to make sure...

    When I wrote of Cali being still into drugs, and not cheese, production and sales I was referring of course to a Colombian drug cartel.

    Not to California, in which Cali has been making brisk sales as well.

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  • 51. At 04:10am on 04 Jan 2011, american grizzly wrote:

    "Would you like to swing on a star,
    Carry moonbeams home in a jar,
    And be better off than you are,
    You could be swinging on a star." Bing Crosby


    Yes let see what Governor (Moonbeam) Brown does to a state (1 of 5 really bad subprimes)that helped drag the US financial system into the tank. Where California expects the US to bail them out too. Earmark some of that cash$$.


    We as the rest of the song goes:

    "All the monkeys aren't in the zoo,
    Everyday you meet quite a few,
    So you see its all up to you,
    you could be swinging on a star."

    Maybe Linda can sing it for Governor Moonbeam.

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  • 52. At 05:00am on 04 Jan 2011, Fledermaus_63 wrote:

    39. At 00:57am on 04 Jan 2011, RHammond

    "Surely, you were sarcastic. Or misinformed. Or living in one of the other 5, higher taxed states and therefore jealous. I suggest you go with the first excuse."


    None of the above. I looked up the income tax rates - as you can see by the URL I posted - and was flabbergasted to see how low income tax is there. I'm not from the US, I am English, living in Germany.

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  • 53. At 05:06am on 04 Jan 2011, Fledermaus_63 wrote:

    Some more lyrics for AmericanGrizzly ;0)

    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/deadkennedys/californiauberalles.html

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  • 54. At 05:59am on 04 Jan 2011, JoanneJaffe wrote:

    Schwarzenegger was a terrible Governor. He did nothing to improve the financial situation of the State; it got worse every year. He "borrowed" the school's Rainy Day fund, leaving the State's schools broke, and never found the money to pay it back. The richest people in the State pay very low income taxes, but he refused to consider raising their's even a little to help with the debt. We fell deeper, and deeper into debt.

    The previous Governor, Gray Davis, sued ENRON and other electric companies for fraud, because they held back power so they could charge California more for power, saying there wasn't enough to send. They were caught. When Schwarzenegger took office, he settled the suit for pennies on the dollar, and ENRON and the other power companies got off. http://www.moldingmusic.com/powerco.html

    As Attorney General, Jerry Brown has enforced the law. That is the job of the AG. The vast majority of Californians are happy with the job he has done. He and the District Attorneys in the 54 counties in the State, have seen the crime rate drop in the State the past 8 years. The D.A. of San Francisco, an anti-death penalty liberal, is the new Attorney General.

    Jerry Brown has always been pragmatic, while looking toward the future of California. He saw a Green future for California, and was ridiculed for it. That Green future is here, and I believe he will spread it to all of California. It will save money, use power wisely, create jobs, and help bring back our economy.

    As far as public jobs are concerned, they make less money than their private counterparts. People on the right refuse to believe the numbers. They also refuse to believe in Climate Change. Just as other workers' pay went up over the years, so did that of public employees. People on the right would have them work for very little, and have no pension rights. They have worked hard to take away pensions from private employees, so that most have only their savings and Social Security. Since the Crash of 2008, that leaves not enough. People in their 70's have had to try to find work; some in their 80's.

    We elected Jerry Brown because we knew he would give us a hard budget, but it would be one he had to make, and not one he wanted to make. He would tell us the hard truth, and help us find a way to work our way out of this hole. He will get the legislature to put tax increases on the ballot, so the people can decide if they really want to do what they need to do. I think when we hear what we know is the truth, we will do the right thing.

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  • 55. At 06:31am on 04 Jan 2011, LanceMarchetti wrote:

    I'll bet that wasn't a Dictionary under the palm of his left hand !?

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  • 56. At 07:26am on 04 Jan 2011, tuulen wrote:

    @ 54. JoanneJaffe

    JoanneJaffe wrote:

    "...We elected Jerry Brown because we knew he would give us a hard budget, but it would be one he had to make, and not one he wanted to make. He would tell us the hard truth, and help us find a way to work our way out of this hole. He will get the legislature to put tax increases on the ballot, so the people can decide if they really want to do what they need to do. I think when we hear what we know is the truth, we will do the right thing."

    Despite my earlier post, #26, I believe you are right. I listened to Governor Brown's speech today, and he appears to take the current state of the California economy quite seriously. And, I believe that he will continue to focus on that topic, successfully.





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  • 57. At 07:32am on 04 Jan 2011, JClarkson wrote:

    #52


    "...and was flabbergasted to see how low income tax is there. I'm not from the US, I am English, living in Germany."


    That explains it and I will chalk it up to misinformation then. The figures you were looking at were just STATE taxes. The taxes you pay to the state you live in. As you may have heard, US stands for United States. There are 50 of these states. They are all governed by the Federal government, in Washington DC. Germany, I think is modeled on a similar system, of local and Federal governments.

    So, the figures you were looking at were the State tax rates, "State" as in Colorado, or Alabama or any of the other 48 states. In addition to those, there are FEDERAL taxes, which are paid to the Federal government. Those can be 100% to 300% higher than the State taxes. There are many tax systems in the US (city, county, etc) and in addition to those there are two main systems that everyone must pay into. State and Federal.

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  • 58. At 07:33am on 04 Jan 2011, JClarkson wrote:

    #54

    "The previous Governor, Gray Davis, sued ENRON and other electric companies for fraud, because they held back power so they could charge California more for power, saying there wasn't enough to send."


    Remind everyone what happened to Gray Davis and WHY...

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  • 59. At 09:41am on 04 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #54
    Are you a California public worker?

    Because all the evidence of their inflated salries plus benefits show they get far too much.

    Brown is a tax and spend liberal that gave California the bad economic system that they suffer through.
    Why doesn't Brown also put on ballot if resident want to prvitize non essential services.

    Than the public workers (parasites) can compete in the marketplace

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  • 60. At 09:54am on 04 Jan 2011, numberwanpurened wrote:

    The Dead Kennedys summed Jery Brown up in their classic song 'California Uber Alles'.

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  • 61. At 11:48am on 04 Jan 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 35. At 11:30pm on 03 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ”No actually unlike you I look beyond party, I've voted for Clinton.”

    Irrelevant. the point I was making is that you are so arrogant and sure of your own superiority, of which I see scant evidence, that you consider people ‘stupid’ – your word – if they dare to vote in a way you disagree with. You have not disputed, let alone disproved, this point.

    ”But if the choice is between a liberal who has always (sic) supported unions or a sucessful (sic) business person when the economy is in shambles.”

    You appear to have forgotten to finish your sentence.

    ”BTW McCain is far smarter than Obama, and in the case of Palin, Obama only demonstated (sic) superiority is telepromter (sic) reading”

    As ever you fail to distinguish between ‘MK’s biased prejudices’ and ‘facts’. What evidence exactly do you have that “McCain is far smarter than Obama”? If any? The success of their campaigns? Their choice of running mates? Academic success? IQ scores?? Your endless hatred of Obama?

    Yet again I ask you – if Obama is unable to function without a teleprompter, how was he able to defeat the far more experienced McCain in three presidential debates in the eyes of most experts and in the opinion polls. (Let me guess – because people who thought that weren’t intelligent like McCain, Palin and MK? Or did Obama use a secret, magic, invisible teleprompter?)

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  • 62. At 12:05pm on 04 Jan 2011, Chryses wrote:

    I believe that in another thread of this blog, the "average voter" was referred to as "brain dead."

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  • 63. At 12:26pm on 04 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    If the Presidential debates were a rap battle.. Obama out-rapped McCain.
    The (half-white) (half-black) kid raised in America is just a little bit too black for the extreme loons lurking in the dark. (Maybe the financial crisis stupified McCain or lost the republican's remaining credibility after the lame duck waddled off into hiding)

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  • 64. At 12:31pm on 04 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    If the presidential debates were a rap battle then Obama out-rapped McCain.
    Maybe McCain was stupified after the financial crisis hit the fan and republicans lost their remaining credibilility as the lame duck president waddled off into hiding

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  • 65. At 12:36pm on 04 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 66. At 12:53pm on 04 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #61
    As ever you fail to distinguish between ‘MK’s biased prejudices’ and ‘facts’. What evidence exactly do you have that “McCain is far smarter than Obama”? If any? The success of their campaigns? Their choice of running mates? Academic success? IQ scores?? Your endless hatred of Obama?

    Yet again I ask you – if Obama is unable to function without a teleprompter, how was he able to defeat the far more experienced McCain in three presidential debates in the eyes of most experts and in the opinion polls. (Let me guess – because people who thought that weren’t intelligent like McCain, Palin and MK? Or did Obama use a secret, magic, invisible teleprompter?)

    ____________

    By your theory you would have to admidt that GWB was better than Gore and Kerry.

    If you look at the election which you did not. It was a perfect storm for the Dems 8 years of Bush and a throw the bums out mentality.

    Even so untill the Oct financial disaster Obama and McCain were running neck and neck.

    But because some of us dare to voice the oppinion of Obama's lack of qualificatin and record you and others criticize us either as racist or not intelligent

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  • 67. At 12:57pm on 04 Jan 2011, PartTimeDon wrote:

    Ref# 59 Magic
    Because all the evidence of their inflated sal(a)ries plus benefits show they get far too much.
    _____________
    California Public workers get paid 7% less on avarage than their privately employed counterparts. However, they receive better benefits to the point where their is no real advantage either way.
    http://californiacitynews.typepad.com/californiacitynewsorg/2010/10/pub.html
    Magic, this is a topic that you express particularly strong opinions on. Did you once have a business that foundered due to labour issues? If so, would you like to share that perspective with us in order that we can see your point of view more clearly. If not, I'm at a loss to understand where your strength of feeling on this comes from.

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  • 68. At 1:11pm on 04 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    Kirin, you should gamble your savings on a Republican 2012 win, you'd get long odds most probably and it is obvious you are not racist and are very intelligent

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  • 69. At 1:12pm on 04 Jan 2011, PartTimeDon wrote:

    Ref#66
    IMO Obama won because he appeared presidential in a way McCain never did.
    Kerry lost for the same reason - if the Dems could have produced a genuine presidential candidate that year, Bush was there for the taking.
    A number of factors conspired to put Bush in office ahead of Gore in 2000, but neither of them looked like a president. Gore eventually looked like one when he finally conceeded. Bush has yet to get close.
    Brushing aside your reflexive racism assersion as the irrelevance it is to this discussion, you were about to provide evidence on why people who voted differently from you were "stupid".
    Before you do however, you may want to look at these.
    2008: http://aniq.posterous.com/2008-presidential-election-res-6001
    2004: http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp

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  • 70. At 1:32pm on 04 Jan 2011, Maria Ashot wrote:

    Than you for writing about Gov. Jerry Brown -- one of my most favourite political figures ever to emerge on the American scene. I would have said "grace" except for the fact that not too many other American politicians have exhibited any actual Geace, of late.

    As the son of a very competent California governor, Pat Brown, Jerry Brown grew up steeped in the dilemmas, issues & exigencies of government. That aspect, in addition to natural ability & high intelligence, surely helped accelerate his learning curve, so to speak... He brings rare expertise to this position, at a time when genuinely daunting challenges are bound to make his tenure remarkable on many levels -- even if he were not to succeed.

    Personally, I am inclined to expect success. And most emphatically I do wish California, my principal home for some forty+ years, a genuine and lasting recovery.

    It was not mere coincidence that Jerry Brown's first two terms happened to come during a time of extraordinary expansion and renewal in California's history. He inspired innovation and experimentation as much as he was himself a visionary and an innovator. One of his great achievements you don't mention here, Mr Mardell, was taking a proactive role in promoting the rights and dignity of the disabled, and in appointing seriously disabled but highly gifted individuals to positions of considerable influence & responsibility. It would be fair to say that Brown's sensible respect for diversity long before the term became part of p.c. dogma accelerated the integration of the disabled into American society as a whole.

    Indeed, his positive influence also contributed to the speedy rise of Silicon Valley and some of its shiniest brands, including Apple, that just a few years ago seemed, well... just as "eccentric" as Jerry Brown seemed, just a few years ago, to far too many people who took a while to sit up & notice.

    Not all the problems California confronts can be easily fixed, nor should we expect Governor Brown to fix them, however. While he was initially governor of the state, California had excellent public schools, for example. Today, they are mostly a disaster (the exception proving the rule). Unfortunately, no amount of wizardry or funding (and funds have now basically evaporated) can reverse decades of neglect, indifference and addle-headed mismanagement... The social problems, the stresses at home, the disincentives for entering the teaching profession all contribute to the decline in California K-12 schools, and none of these can actually be shifted by any budgetary process or policy tweaking in Sacramento.

    Still, considering that so many of the ideas Jerry Brown originally advocated have now become de rigeur not only in California, but in many advanced societies -- green technology, for one; safeguarding employment equality for women, for another; prudent fiscal-policy, for a third; opting out of waste and excess at the personal level, for a fourth; setting an example and living by the principles one advocates, for a fifth; consideration of the merits of alternative cultures and belief systems, for a sixth -- it is an absolute certainty that he will make a positive contribution yet again, not just to Californians, but to everyone, from having bothered to roll up his sleeves one more time and fighting, to a convincing victory, a brilliantly thought-through campaign against a very determined adversary who had the advantage of many, many more times the financial resources he used.

    That interesting story, in and of itself, promises much. Here is a politician who can get a lot accomplished with considerably less expenditure. Let's all watch, and maybe some can also learn from his example.

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  • 71. At 1:44pm on 04 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #68
    Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:
    Kirin, you should gamble your savings on a Republican 2012 win, you'd get long odds most probably and it is obvious you are not racist and are very intelligent

    ______________

    what I should have done is right after the Democratic Mass Senate primary put 10K on scott Brown.

    Despite the disaster that Obama has been, I did know he was going to win the election.

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  • 72. At 1:51pm on 04 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #67
    http://wallstreetpit.com/25865-public-sector-pay-outpaces-private-pay

    My problems is that the public sector worker is being rewarded in these poor economic times and we could save a great deal of money by privitizing.

    NH has a sucessful legilature where the reps are paid very little

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  • 73. At 3:22pm on 04 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    Re #51 "All the monkeys aren't in the zoo
    Everyday you meet quite a few"





    Arnie, you were not happy with him,
    so now've elected Governor Moonbeam.

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  • 74. At 5:45pm on 04 Jan 2011, Scott0962 wrote:

    re.#52. At 05:00am on 04 Jan 2011, Fledermaus_63 wrote:
    39. At 00:57am on 04 Jan 2011, RHammond

    "Surely, you were sarcastic. Or misinformed. Or living in one of the other 5, higher taxed states and therefore jealous. I suggest you go with the first excuse."


    None of the above. I looked up the income tax rates - as you can see by the URL I posted - and was flabbergasted to see how low income tax is there. I'm not from the US, I am English, living in Germany.

    ----------------

    As the quoted web site itself says, state income tax rates only tell part of the story. You must also consider sales taxes, property taxes, gasoline taxes, vehicle licensing and weight fees, business taxes and various user fees that are being used to fund services formerly supported by taxes for things such as state parks. And remember than in addition to the state taxes and fees local county and municipal governments may also impose additional taxes on top of that, and local fire and school districts usually fund part of their operations with an additional property tax levy, all of which contribute the citizen's total tax burden in a particular state.

    Trust me, American politicians are as adept as their European counterparts when it comes to finding things to tax. The only thing we don't have yet is VAT and they're working on that.

    My state, Washington, doesn't have a state income tax but our other taxes are correspondingly higher. The reason we don't have a state income tax is the state consitution requires voter approval before it can be enacted and the voters don't trust the legislature not to keep all the other taxes if we give them an income tax too.

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  • 75. At 9:35pm on 04 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Maria wrote: Unfortunately, no amount of wizardry or funding (and funds have now basically evaporated) can reverse decades of neglect, indifference and addle-headed mismanagement...
    --------------

    Cali is a good example of what happens to a state when ultraliberals are in control...

    It sinks...

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  • 76. At 11:00pm on 04 Jan 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    75. At 9:35pm on 04 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    "Cali is a good example of what happens to a state when ultraliberals are in control...

    It sinks..."

    I see. Perhaps you could specify

    (a) Which liberals you are referring to?
    (b) Do they include the Republican Governor for the last 7 years or so, Gov Schwarzenegger?
    (c) Do they include the Republican Governor from 1983-1991 George Deukmejian
    (d) Do they include the Republican Governor from 1991-1999 Pete Wilson
    (e) If not who do they include?
    (f) Exactly which of their policies are not just liberal but ultraliberal, and exactly how the two differ?
    (g) (Eg, perhaps you could let us know some politicians you consider liberal as opposed to ultraliberal?)
    (h) Which other States have ‘sunk’ because of ‘ultraliberals?
    (i) Do you in fact admit the existence of conservatives and ultraconservatives, as they don't seem to exist in LucyWorld
    (j) Could you provide some of your evidence -if any exists - that ultraliberal is a specific political description, as opposed to just a smear you like to throw around at anyone you happen to dislike or disagree with?

    I do not really expect specific and sensible answers. You ultra-ultra-ultra-conservatives never seem to have any.

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  • 77. At 11:03pm on 04 Jan 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    4. At 5:20pm on 03 Jan 2011, ann arbor wrote:
    “Ah, so the man that instituted the policies that have matured to render California insolvent is now back at the helm.

    I sincerely hope California is forced into bankruptcy and Obama does not "participate". The unsupportable contracts Brown made years ago need to be "renegotiated".”

    So, Brown was last Governor in 83, more than a quarter of a century ago. For all of the time since except for 5 years California has had Republican Governors.

    And all of the current financial problems of California are down to Brown.

    Riiiight....

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  • 78. At 11:09pm on 04 Jan 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 49 powermeerkat wrote:
    “There are still some economic dinosaurs who don't understand that if a state (including a federal one) wants to increase its revenues it should lower taxes.

    Unless it wants to decrease them; then it should, of course raise taxes.

    [works like a charm every time]”

    Really?

    Every single time a State lowers taxes, revenues go up?

    Every single time a State raises taxes, revenues go down?

    And it is only ‘economic dinosaurs’ who don't understand that?

    The current UK Conservative government has just raised VAT – I guess that makes them commie ‘economic dinosaurs’ in your eyes?

    So – any actual evidence of your theory? Any actual proof? That this happens in every single case?

    I am sure many enquiring minds are just dying to know.

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  • 79. At 11:38pm on 04 Jan 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 66 MK

    “By your theory you would have to admidt (sic) that GWB was better than Gore and Kerry.”

    No, I do not. Your ‘logic’, such as it is, is grossly flawed.

    You and other ultraconservatives – Palin, Limbaugh et al - love to whine about teleprompters and Obama’s use of them – as if any modern politician does not use them. You cannot deny he is an effective orator, so you whine that he cannot function without a teleprompter. However, he had three live TV debates with the vastly more experienced McCain. No teleprompters were involved – of course. And all the evidence is that he won them. That alone disproves your point. It does not prove on its own that Obama was ‘better’ than McCain – the expression is so vague as to be essentially meaningless – but that was not what I was attempting to prove.

    (I had a quick look at the Web but couldn't find evidence that GWB ‘won’ all his presidential debates, in the eyes of pundits and the public. The fact that he won two elections – albeit the first with c fewer 500,000 votes than Gore - does not prove anything – possibly the debates made no difference. Personally, I recall the Kerry debates and thought Kerry was better – but that's just me. )

    “If you look at the election which you did not.”

    That is neither relevant nor a sentence.

    “It was a perfect storm for the Dems 8 years of Bush and a throw the bums out mentality.”

    That is neither relevant nor a sentence.

    Even so untill (sic) the Oct financial disaster Obama and McCain were running neck and neck.

    That is irrelevant.

    “But because some of us dare to voice the oppinion (sic) of Obama's lack of qualificatin (sic) and record you and others criticize us either as racist or not intelligent.”

    I have never called you a racist that I can recall. If you have evidence otherwise, provide it. Although many of the people you hate, including Obama and his wife, are black, many of those you hate (ie practically all Democrats) are white. You are clearly an equal opportunities hater.

    If anyone else has, take it up with them.

    Also, as I have often pointed out, you have more than once defamed anyone who dares to question Israel and/or disagree with you as anti-Semitic and/or pro-terrorist. It is almost amusing therefore that you pontificate about others ‘playing the race card’.

    Re experience, his opponents went on endlessly about his limited experience and brief record before he was elected. Didn't work. And yet, you go on like a broken record.

    McCain was massively experienced – and picked Palin. Cheney and Rumsfeld were massively experienced, in the private and public sectors. Even GWB was from a long line of politicians, a 2-term governor with business experience. Much good it did them.

    Re intelligence, you're the one who said the voters of California were stupid for not voting the way you wanted, ie Republican, and that you are more intelligent than the average voter because the average voter didn’t vote the way you wanted in 2008, ie Republican. I do not recall calling you stupid. Once again, provide proof. Rigid, indolent, extreme, intolerant perhaps – but I really cannot recall calling you stupid.

    (PS I repeat from the posting that you replied to – “What evidence exactly do you have that “McCain is far smarter than Obama”? If any? The success of their campaigns? Their choice of running mates? Academic success? IQ scores?? Your endless hatred of Obama?” I am not holding my breath for an answer.)

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  • 80. At 00:10am on 05 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #79

    so you think who wins a debate is a good reason to choose a canidate.

    Nixon was the debates with Kennedy on substance but because of Kennedy looks people thought he won

    I am not ultra conservative (I reject those limited labels that leftist like to use) being opposed to Obama merly makes you rational

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  • 81. At 00:11am on 05 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    It seems the same battle lines are being drawn as they have throughout American History from the days of slavey, the american civil war, segregation, civil rights. All the blind party loyalties have been built up as part of its legacy from the past. The Republicans seem to be sponsored by Lobbying Industries such as Oil, Healthcare, Weaponry and base their policies in the interest of these Corporations rather than individuals. The Civil rights demonstrations from the late 60's were still in the lifetime of several adults who still cling onto their same old beliefs and mentality. People never really change when they get older they just become more extreme in their mannerisms.

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  • 82. At 00:20am on 05 Jan 2011, JClarkson wrote:

    #76

    "(e) If not who do they include?"



    "The California State Legislature currently has a Democratic majority, with the Senate consisting of 24 Democrats, 13 Republicans, and 3 vacancies; and the Assembly having 52 Democrats and 28 Republicans. Except for the period from 1995 to 1996, the Assembly has been in Democratic hands since the 1970 election (even while the governor's office has gone back and forth between Republicans and Democrats). The Senate has been in Democratic hands continuously since 1970."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Legislature


    The same thing has been going on in California, since 1970, as it is about to happen to Obama for the next 2 years.

    Governors and presidents do not get anything accomplished without majority support in their respective congresses, be it at the state or federal level.

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  • 83. At 00:43am on 05 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    @ geezer above
    That's real real dumb to have gridlock in congress when it's time to rebuild americas belief in itself and its economy. (Unless the Republicans are willing to take the blame for mass unemployment staying the same)

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  • 84. At 01:34am on 05 Jan 2011, Chryses wrote:

    RHammond, (#82. At 00:20am on 05 Jan 2011)

    Good hit. Factual and accurate. Perhaps not compelling, but it is persuasive.

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  • 85. At 01:40am on 05 Jan 2011, Chryses wrote:

    Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers, (#83. At 00:43am on 05 Jan 2011)

    ”@ geezer above ...”
    Is that how you respond to facts? Isn’t that what John_From_Dublin requested in post #76?

    Are you so afraid of facts that you’ll try to disrupt the thread?

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  • 86. At 01:41am on 05 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    John wrote: a) Which liberals you are referring to?
    ----------
    All of them...

    I truly believe Cali would be doing far better today if the illegals had never entered the country and our borders were protected...

    Deport illegals= save your state!

    But don't worry, America, the Republicans are on the way to save the day!
    :)

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_immigration_states

    An excerpt:

    Seven states including Georgia, Mississippi, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Tennessee say they will push measures similar to Arizona's immigration clampdown.
    ----------------
    John wrote: h) Which other States have ‘sunk’ because of ‘ultraliberals?
    ---------

    The USA!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20110104/sc_livescience/asnationaldebttops14trillionwhatsyourshare

    An excerpt:
    In fact, the 111th Congress, which adjourned for the final time yesterday, set a new record for debt by accumulating $3.22 trillion - more than the first 100 Congresses combined.

    The four highest-spending Congresses

    1 - 111th Congress (Jan. 2009 - Jan. 2011) - $3.220 trillion

    2 - 110th Congress (Jan. 2007 - Jan. 2009) - $1.957 trillion

    3 - 108th Congress (Jan. 2003 - Jan. 2005) - $1.159 trillion

    4 - 109th Congress (Jan. 2005 - Jan. 2007) - $1.054 trillion

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  • 87. At 01:50am on 05 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    Chyses I don't believe you officially represent republicans, the tea party, the bbc, other bloggers or anyone else except for yourself. You seem to take this all as a kiddies computer game with opposing sides fighting and complaining about every post not in line with yours.

    The effect on Americas morale from the financial crisis, unemployment, bankruptcies and foreclosures has been devastating, so stop playing petty minded tit for tat games

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  • 88. At 01:50am on 05 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    John wrote: You ultra-ultra-ultra-conservatives never seem to have any.
    ----------------
    I'm not considered ultraconservative, but rather I am considered to be an Independent...;)
    -----------------
    Now this is a strange story...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_lewd_navy_video

    An excerpt:
    No leaders in senior posts at the Pentagon and in the Navy could explain why, if Honors' conduct was so questionable, he was promoted after the videos aired. Last week, the Navy said the videos were intended merely as "humorous skits" and stopped airing immediately after other senior officers became aware of them.
    -----------------------

    So what? Who cares?

    If they knew what he did years ago, why fire him now, one of the best commanders in USA military, someone who cannot be replaced?

    Sadly, this is the new version of the USA military under an ultraliberal Obama who didn't even stop the extention of Bush tax cuts, his number one campaign promise...what a total failure...

    There is no one who can harm our military or our country more than President Obama...

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  • 89. At 02:21am on 05 Jan 2011, Chryses wrote:

    Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers, (#87. At 01:50am on 05 Jan 2011)

    "Chyses I don't believe you officially represent republicans, the tea party, the bbc, other bloggers or anyone else except for yourself ..."
    That is correct.

    "... You seem to take this all as a kiddies computer game with opposing sides fighting and complaining about every post not in line with yours ...
    Are you so scared that you'll be whupped by some facts that you feel the need to attack me? LOL! Get over it! John_From_Dublin and RHammond are discussing an issue using facts to buttress their arguments. The fact that you are not up to doing the needed work to support silly, foolish claims suggests to your humble servant that you should let them discuss the issues without interference.

    "... The effect on Americas morale from the financial crisis, unemployment, bankruptcies and foreclosures has been devastating, so stop playing petty minded tit for tat games"
    What in the world are you talking about? Are you suggesting that because I use facts to substantiate my arguments and criticize others for failing to do the same that I should stop? I note with amusement that you have failed to criticize John_From_Dublin for using facts to substantiate his arguments and criticizing others for failing to do the same.

    You used biblical allusions with LucyJ, so how about if you first remove the beam from your own eye?

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  • 90. At 02:24am on 05 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    If both sides don't work together at home, Americas ideals will fail internationally too

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  • 91. At 02:29am on 05 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    It's about focusing on the economy now, (if both sides have any sense)

    that's how a recovery works, you need growth and more jobs

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  • 92. At 06:02am on 05 Jan 2011, Stevenson wrote:

    I had to answer sweet Lucy J who lives in a world I DO NOT INHABIT (no offense, Miss Lucy J), but

    Being a good commander and being a Hitler protege are not at all the same thing..

    Get it? Got it? Good! :)))))

    David

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  • 93. At 06:05am on 05 Jan 2011, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:

    LucyJ: "If they knew what he did years ago, why fire him now..."

    Because the content of the videos are public knowledge now and the Naval officer involved can no longer effectively represent the US Navy.

    LucyJ: "one of the best commanders in USA military, someone who cannot be replaced..."

    Very few people in the American government are irreplaceable, this man is not one of them. Desk duty is a slap on the wrist.

    LucyJ: "Sadly, this is the new version of the USA military under an ultraliberal Obama."

    I disagree; the videos may have been intended as "humorous skits", but the lewdness upsets my conservative sensibilities and expectations of the US Navy.

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  • 94. At 09:38am on 05 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #93

    Just like with McCrystal this was an overreaction.

    If legislators had to resign for similar conduct Frank, Kennedy and Dodd would have been kicked out years ago.

    So it is more important to be PC than protect the country

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  • 95. At 10:38am on 05 Jan 2011, Chryses wrote:

    Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers, (#90. At 02:24am on 05 Jan 2011) & (#91. At 02:29am on 05 Jan 2011)

    Much better. TY.

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  • 96. At 10:55am on 05 Jan 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    80. At 00:10am on 05 Jan 2011, MagicKirin wrote:

    “so (sic) you think who wins a debate is a good reason to choose a candidate (sic)./Nixon was (sic) the debates with Kennedy on substance but because of Kennedy (sic) looks people thought he won”

    It’s one reason to choose whom to vote for. That’s why they have debates. In theory it should give a candidate a chance to outline and explain their policies, and also give voters a chance to judge the candidate and how they react under pressure. However, even in the unlikely event that McCain had shown himself more articulate than Obama, I doubt I would have favoured McCain, as I preferred Obama’s policies.

    As for Kennedy – “…leading the huge television audience to favor Kennedy as the winner. Radio listeners, however, either thought Nixon had won or that the debates were a draw.” Wikipedia. Appearances matter. Apparently many TV viewers thought Nixon looked shifty and evasive. How wrong they were....

    ”I am not ultra conservative (I reject those limited labels that leftist (sic) like to use) being opposed to Obama merly (sic) makes you rational”

    Dear oh dear. You reject limited labels – unlike ‘leftists’. You really cannot see the ludicrousness of that position?

    So you whine that people call you stupid for hating Obama, whilst you provide no evidence of anyone who has done this. While you had already announced that those who voted for him were stupid – or at least not as smart as you. And now, according to you, those who voted for him in his runaway victory were not just stupid but irrational.

    Unlike intelligent, rational MK and former Governor Palin.....

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  • 97. At 11:57am on 05 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    Stevenson observed:

    Being a good commander and being a Hitler protege are not at all the same thing..






    Correct. Most of the best German commanders were not Hitler's proteges; on the contrary, some, e.g.,Feldmarshall von Rommel, conspired to have this Austrian failed painter removed.

    Just as most of the best Soviet commanders were not Stalin's proteges, e.g., Konstatin Rokossovski who was released from GULAG only when it looked like Nazis would prevail.


    Nay, knowing fully well I'm comparing apples with oranges, best American commanders were not US presidents' proteges, e.g. Patton bypassed by Bradley ('cause he was not sucking Eisenhower's little...finger and tried to ruin FDR's Yalta sell-out of half of Europe down the Soviet river), and MacArthur, fired by cowardly Truman because he thought (correctly as it turned out) that accepting a division of Korea would have disastrous long term consequences.

    P.S. Have I mentioned Barak Hussein Obama firing McChrystall, the best Special Forces' commander we've had in long time?

    To Osama's delight?

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  • 98. At 12:10pm on 05 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:
    LucyJ: "If they knew what he did years ago, why fire him now..."

    Because the content of the videos are public knowledge now and the Naval officer involved can no longer effectively represent the US Navy.




    Do you think he would be fired by the current Administration if it turned out he was not exactly...hmmm, sad?


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  • 99. At 12:13pm on 05 Jan 2011, Mike Farrow wrote:

    It frankly scares me when people describe the centre-right Obama as "ultraliberal". What does that make Dennis Kucinich, who is a fluffy social democrat in European terms?

    As for Brown, I think RHammond has a point. The Legislature is dominated by Democrats and has hamstrung every governor's efforts to balance the budget for two generations. Taking the assignment of districts out of the hands of the legislature, killing the awful gerrymandering we've seen, will help somewhat. When all the major urban areas are dominated by Democrats and generate the bulk of the districts, it almost becomes a one-party state and it stops becoming about general political politics and about buying the votes of your constituents. I almost feel like somebody needs to come along and knock off all the centrist seats with a new party at the state level. Will never happen though.

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  • 100. At 12:18pm on 05 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    MK: "If legislators had to resign for similar conduct Frank, Kennedy and Dodd would have been kicked out years ago."





    Barney Frank could not possibly be fired since, since "he's O.K".

    Just like that Canadian lumberjack from a Monty Python's song.


    [btw. I'd like to thank a graduate of Spelling Uninersery's [sic] graduate for pointing out that the lumberjack did not want to be 'AS girly as his dear papa', but 'A-girly'.

    It made my HIV-free Day. :-)))]

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  • 101. At 2:04pm on 05 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    John from Dublin wrote to Magic Quilin [sic]

    'And now, according to you, those who voted for him [Barack Hussein Obama] in his runaway victory were not just stupid but irrational."




    Unlike those who claim that those who voted for Tea Party candidates (resulting in their runaway victory) were stupid and irrational. :-)))


    [The claimants being, of course, of supreme intellect and sophistication]

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  • 102. At 3:07pm on 05 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Chryses wrote: You used biblical allusions with LucyJ...
    ------------------
    Talk about Biblical!!!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110105/ap_on_re_eu/eu_sweden_dead_birds

    An exceprt:
    Officials say about 50 birds have been found dead on a street in Sweden.
    In the U.S., New Year's Eve fireworks were blamed in Arkansas for killing thousands of blackbirds, and a few days later power lines likely killed about 450 birds in Louisiana.
    ---------------
    Indiana news said they found dead birds in Kentucky, too...and in Arkansas, it was dead birds dropping out of the sky and thousands of dead fish, too...(did the birds drink the water?)

    I don't know that I really buy the fireworks/powerlines theory, I mean,sure its possible, but it doesn't make sense why it would be so many in multiple places and now Sweden, too...

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  • 103. At 3:11pm on 05 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    Louisiana wrote: Because the content of the videos are public knowledge now and the Naval officer involved can no longer effectively represent the US Navy.
    -------------------
    Why were they 'suddenly' made public knowledge?

    I believe likely someone was jealous or wanted the top guy's job...

    Or it was an ultraliberal who felt some of the bashing was offensive...

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  • 104. At 8:37pm on 05 Jan 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    102. At 3:07pm on 05 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    "Indiana news said they found dead birds in Kentucky, too...and in Arkansas, it was dead birds dropping out of the sky and thousands of dead fish, too...(did the birds drink the water?)

    I don't know that I really buy the fireworks/powerlines theory, I mean,sure its possible, but it doesn't make sense why it would be so many in multiple places and now Sweden, too..."


    Frankly I am amazed that you haven’t yet blamed this on Obama and these mythical, omnipresent, undefined ‘ultraliberals’.

    You've blamed everything else on them.

    With about as much evidence.

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  • 105. At 11:17pm on 05 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    is an ultraliberal 'gay' as in 'happy'
    The Meters - handclapping song, Ernie K Doe - here come the girls,
    Gaturs - gatur bait, Billie Holiday - do you know what it means to miss
    new orelans
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGs_PCiWA-I

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  • 106. At 11:21pm on 05 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    can anyone else say ultraliberal upside down
    "uʍop ǝpısdn lɐɹǝqılɐɹʇln"

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  • 107. At 11:26pm on 05 Jan 2011, Complete Bob Marley and the Wailers wrote:

    watch out watch out there is a humphrey about who will steal all your milk with a stripy red straw
    here is the rest of the nights news for the simple minded
    ultraliberal ultalibereal unltraliberal terrorist terrorist terrorist politician politician politician muslim muslim muslim

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  • 108. At 02:45am on 06 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    John wrote: Frankly I am amazed that you haven’t yet blamed this on Obama and these mythical, omnipresent, undefined ‘ultraliberals’.
    -----------
    Ever heard don't judge a book by its cover?

    Anyhew, some things are beyond humankind...

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  • 109. At 10:47am on 06 Jan 2011, John_From_Dublin wrote:

    # 108. At 02:45am on 06 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    "John wrote: Frankly I am amazed that you haven’t yet blamed this on Obama and these mythical, omnipresent, undefined ‘ultraliberals’.
    -----------
    Ever heard don't judge a book by its cover?"


    Amazingly enough, I have.

    It means don’t judge a person or thing by initial superficial appearance.

    I have had ample opportunity to judge your views from your voluminous postings over a lengthy period.

    Consequently “don't judge a book by its cover” is entirely irrelevant.

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  • 110. At 3:40pm on 06 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    John wrote: Consequently “don't judge a book by its cover” is entirely irrelevant.
    -----------------
    What about there are two sides to the story?

    No, I don't blame everything on them, just what I feel they are doing wrong...

    These birds and fish dying mysteriously is just that- mysterious- and it could be a variety of things its caused by, likely either science- such as poison- or Biblical times...

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  • 111. At 06:57am on 07 Jan 2011, anonymousnotapathetic wrote:

    #24 LucyJ wrote "You won't find many nicer than Schwarzenegger. He wants to help people, but he also has to balance the budget. How is he supposed to support foster youth and social agencies with no money?"

    Really???

    I don't know if Schwarzeneggar is nice, never met the guy and like wise do not have an opinion of him as a person. I do however have issues with some of the funding that he chose to cut in an effort to "balance the budget". Interestingly enough the programs that he dismantled were hugely put into place and championed by his mother in-law Eunice Shriver who worked passionately to improve the quality of life for developmentaly disabled youth (her sister was mentally handicapped). Special needs aside who exactly are foster youth? They are the children without families, children whose parents are incarcerated due to drug use or violence, children removed from abusive situations. Every state should make them a priority!
    The recent cuts in treatment services for abused, neglected and mentally ill foster children proposed by the Governor and passed by the legislature, saved the state 1/10th of 1% of the deficit! Ineffective, wasteful state programs costing multiples more continue to gobble up precious state revenue, at the expense of foster children. What does that say about priorities!

    Nice.

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  • 112. At 11:23pm on 07 Jan 2011, LucyJ wrote:

    anonymous,

    the question is why won't Schwarenegger cut all benefits to illegals?

    why cut special needs funds for Americans, but not benefits for people who are in our country illegally?

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