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Does the immigration cap fit?

Mark Easton | 17:04 UK time, Monday, 28 June 2010

The tiny tweak to the immigration rules announced today by the Home Office is not a cap. It's not even a knotted handkerchief.

Theresa MayOfficials stress it is simply an "interim measure" and, they've admitted to me, it may have no effect whatsoever on total immigration.

What it does do, however, is illustrate just how difficult it is going to be to introduce an immigration limit next year that has any meaningful effect on the big numbers without damaging an already struggling British economy.

Latest immigration figures show that, in 2008, 590,000 people came to live in Britain.

Today's change only applies to one narrow category and reduces the number by 1,300 over the next nine months. It doesn't cover other categories, which might even increase.

The internal difficulties experienced by the Home Secretary Theresa May in getting even this modest reduction agreed by her cabinet colleagues reflects the lack of room for manoeuvre she has.

Ms May says she is determined to introduce the promised cap because she wants net immigration into the UK to fall to the levels of the 1990s - "to tens of thousands rather than hundreds of thousands".

This is likely to happen even if she does nothing at all. Net immigration in 2008 the latest yearly figure, was 163,000 for the UK and 135,000 for England and Wales. Since then, there have been much tougher rules on non-EU immigration which have significantly reduced numbers arriving and EU migration is falling too as a result of the recession.

I wouldn't be the least surprised if the net immigration figure for 2009 falls to well below 100,000 on the basis of economic and bureaucratic changes last year. No doubt, government ministers will claim credit if this comes to pass.

Nevertheless, we now have a period of 12 weeks consultation in which the details of a cap will be worked out.

Let's be clear: this is a limit only on skilled and highly-skilled workers from outside the European Union coming to live and work in the UK. It won't affect workers from Eastern Europe or anywhere else inside the EU because they, like the British, have freedom of movement.

Roughly 55,000 non-EU workers were given permission to come to Britain to live and work in 2009. Around a third of them came in under the highly-skilled-migrant route - so-called Tier 1.

Two-thirds were skilled workers with a designated job offer in a sector where officials have agreed there is a shortage of suitable applicants in the UK - so-called Tier 2.

In setting the "interim measure" today, the Home Office exempted quite a few of the sub-categories within tiers 1 and 2.

Wealthy investors and entrepreneurs will be unaffected, as will be elite sports-people, ministers of religion and intra-company transfers. Numbers in these categories might conceivably go up over the next nine months.

The reason given for the exemptions is that the measure was simply being introduced to stop a rush of applicants from "speculative" migrants ahead of the cap next year. The restrictions may also reflect pressure from other government ministers and senior Conservatives who are known to have been worried that the changes might damage the economy.

Boris JohnsonLondon Mayor Boris Johnson told Channel 4 News that "a crude cap could be very detrimental to the free movement of the talented, creative and enterprising people who have enabled London to be such a dominant global force."

Business Secretary Vince Cable has said that "the process of operating this cap will be subject to consultation, and the business groups will make the point, which I fully support, that if you've got a growing economy you've got to draw people in from all over the world where they've got unique contributions. The new regime has got to accommodate those concerns."

So where to draw the line?

Q: Should a 40-year-old manager earning £54,000 a year in his homeland with a masters degree in business studies and perfect English be allowed to come to work in Britain?
A:This applicant would fail under the current points system.

Q: What about a young graduate, again with perfect English and already earning £34,000 a year in his homeland?
A: This applicant would also fail under the current points system.

So, if the cap is to go further than the current system, it means preventing people coming to Britain who have rare talents and earning potential even greater than these examples.

Some believe that a cap will encourage firms to train British employees for the top jobs. Others argue that these are just the kind of people the UK cannot afford to turn away as it seeks to rebuild its battered economy.

PS I have updated the net immigration figure quoted to reflect both the UK and England and Wales.

Comments

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  • 1. At 6:16pm on 28 Jun 2010, jacothenorth wrote:

    The targets should be the unskilled, the criminal, the indigent the unproductive 'family members', etc. Instead of shooting at this barn door of a target the coalition has chosen its own foot. Good start.

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  • 2. At 6:26pm on 28 Jun 2010, SoUnfair wrote:

    How about the idea by Noble Prize winner Gary Becker where immigrants (or the company who wishes to employ them) pay for the right to work in the UK ? see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7833428/Nobel-Laureate-Gary-Becker-says-immigrants-should-pay.html

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  • 3. At 6:59pm on 28 Jun 2010, Bryn The Cat wrote:

    Yet more weasel words from this spin led coalition supporting a headline grabbing initiative that will claim to be resolving the alleged ill's of this country when in reality it is not going to change a jot.

    Same old Torys, haven't got a clue. Just a shame that the Lib Dems are sullying their own name by supporting this ineffective and potentially damaging half-baked policy. Simple fact, the immigration that concerns the country, or at least some of the population, cannot be controlled as it is mainly EU based Eastern Europeans. Set all the caps you like, it won't change anything as regards the EU ebbs and flows of migration.

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  • 4. At 8:18pm on 28 Jun 2010, Dave Manchester wrote:

    The cap is a silly idea, and one that ought to be quietly dropped.

    Immigration is always something of a red herring, as immigrants from outside the EU have a devil of a time getting anything, meanwhile those from the poorer end of the EU can come and fill their boots.

    Once people realize this cap isn't dealing with the real problem migrants the bar will shift again, what is really needed is a change in the benefits system so that the benefits class are forced to find work, and anyone coming here under the illusions of getting a free lunch will find cold comfort.

    Until that happens we'll have Daily Mail horror stories on migrants, and an increasing undercurrent of intolerance, for some time to come

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  • 5. At 8:23pm on 28 Jun 2010, watriler wrote:

    Oh for the joys of grappling with multiple detail devils now they are in government. In this and other areas there are already signs that the cloth of coalition is tugging at the seams of government (or is it the other way round!).

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  • 6. At 9:08pm on 28 Jun 2010, 7890123456 wrote:

    Regarding that specific example, I'm sure there are people in the UK with decent English and degrees in Business Studies, if indeed such a degree is necessary.

    More generally, why does someone have to immigrate to work in the UK? The problem with immigration is that the immigrants stick around, even in times of labour surplus.

    We can make do with guest workers, like Switzerland and South Korea do. Their economies are doing great. But let's make companies work hard and jump through many hoops to prove that there is no British person capable of doing the job. They should have to at least make as much effort and spend as much time on their UK employee search as an average British jobseeker does on his job search.

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  • 7. At 9:11pm on 28 Jun 2010, vstrad wrote:

    Dear Mark,
    More of your usual rubbish, I'm afraid: "So, if the cap is to go further than the current system, it means preventing people coming to Britain who have rare talents and earning potential even greater than these examples."
    But these are pretty weak examples. Dead right the cap should go further. Your examples don't have "rare talents" and neither do most of the non-EU immigrants allowed in. Since we cannot control immigration from the EU it is all the more important we exert control where we can. In the unlikely event that we face a significant shortfall in people of "rare talents" we can recruit them from within the EU.
    You should also be aware that intra-company transfers are widely abused, for example by IT companies who bring in Indian graduates and pay them a fraction of the salary they would have to pay a UK worker with the same skills and experience. The Home Office has been very ineffectual in applying the rules that exist to prevent abuse. Let's hope the new management at the Home Office is more effective than its predecessor.

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  • 8. At 9:23pm on 28 Jun 2010, tacrepus wrote:

    Surely a more pertinent question would be to ask what it is that has gone so horribly wrong within the British education system that makes it necessary to have to source so many skills from outside the UK? Too many arts courses and not eough MBA's, perhaps?

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  • 9. At 10:00pm on 28 Jun 2010, GeoffWard wrote:

    Can we please have a breakdown of the non-EU immigrants who do NOT come here to work.
    1. What countries do they come from?
    2. In what numbers?
    3. How long do they stay? How does this compare to those who come here to work?

    Also, can we disassociate the Overseas Students that are INCOME to the UK, and allow more UK students to receive higher education at a price they can possibly afford.
    I understand that the loophole - bogus students registering at bogus colleges - has been closed, and only bona fide students now come here to study ...
    But can we have a breakdown of students that out-stay their visa for their 3 years of study in the UK....
    1. What numbers? Total numbers & percentage of students ...
    2. From what countries?
    3. Do they disappear into the UK black economy, or is their status just not questioned by their employers?

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  • 10. At 11:24pm on 28 Jun 2010, Wazeri wrote:

    Mark seems to always paint a partial picture with his statistics. If upwards of half a million people moved here in 2008, just who were they? Aussies and Kiwis? Americans and Canadians? Eastern Europeans? Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis? And on what basis did they arrive? Student visas; to work; joining family? A clear representation of those figures, broken down by country of origin, would allow the reader to understand: who has arrived, from where, and for what reason. A similar set of figures showing the numbers of nationals of each nation leaving would then allow the reader to set the net immigration figure in context, ie are the proportions of arrivals and leavers the same across each nation? I suspect part of the concern about immigration is that it changes the 'balance' of society. So if the net 100,000 immigration figure is reached by 500,000 Estonian plumbers arriving with 400,000 Bangladeshi chefs leaving, this may alter the balance in some way. Without the figures displayed in this way, we just don't know and that is something I would like the BBC's Home Editor to understand and address. (oh, and do the figures include families or are they separate?). Thanks.

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  • 11. At 11:57pm on 28 Jun 2010, No_Jeans wrote:

    I think the level of qualifying earnings for Tier 1 needs to rise. If they are such 'rare talents' they would be earning a lot in their home country anyway. £34,000 example raised by Mark should fail for not earning enough. If someone is on £100,000+, perhaps you could say that the person must have a 'rare' enough talent to be of value to the UK, certainly in terms of the tax that the UK will collect from him or her.

    Inter-company transfer is another concern and is open to abuse by companies trying to reduce its costs by bringing in their own labour force. There should also be a minimum earning level imposed, with it being monitored through Inland Revenue.

    Also in order to tackle illegal stayers, the UK government should bring back exit control at airports and seaports to ensure that those who come into the country leave when they should and track down those who do not.

    Family migration should also come under tighter control and make it impossible for those sponsored in to sponsor others in themselves, and there should be a limit to the number of people each person can sponsor in as well, so that the number will be controlled properly.

    The simple fact is that the UK is a small country, geographically speaking. The 'natives' should not suffer from over-crowding as a result of their government letting more and more people in. Since EU migration is now out of the UK's control, it should control what it can to protect their own people's interests.

    As a non-UK residents, I really feel for those who have been living in the UK for a long time and getting terribly squeezed by over-crowding and I strongly believe something has to be done, and very soon.

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  • 12. At 00:07am on 29 Jun 2010, 1geoffski wrote:

    If rules on retirement at 65, plus 2.5 million on incapacity benefit, mothers with children over 5/7 years old, jobless 18/30 year olds and near a million unemployed all need to have jobs it's hard to justify any non EU immigration at all. Can it be realistic to make changes to the groups outlined without a stop on immigration we don't have to accept? Almost all the groups being targeted as welfare "scroungers" would welcome the chance to earn the £35,000 a year you quote and most would be well able to speak/communicate in english and probably a range of other languages. Too much emphasis is given to the immigrant "skills" with no thought given to the home grown candidates who already have housing, know the country and often have families to support. No one chooses to live on any welfare "benefit" but many have no choice because employers want ready trained staff as chep and as fast as possible. If as suggested above employers were made to both jump through hoops and pay a premium to employ non EU immigrants there would be a change of attitude.

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  • 13. At 01:00am on 29 Jun 2010, Andrew Morton wrote:

    The vanguard - and the most visible element - of skilled non-EU immigration consists of players intne Premier League. How about we start with them?

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  • 14. At 01:13am on 29 Jun 2010, voice_of_the_british wrote:

    Here is how to solve the problem,
    1. give the BRITISH people a Referendum to see if THEY want immigrants in their country.
    2. STOP all benefits to immigrants, if they come to britain to work, they CAN NOT bring every member of their family with them claiming housing,education,welfare,NHS services (whats left of them) etc..
    3. Use the TEN BILLION in foreign aid to keep our pensioners warm in winter (over 30,000 died last year) and not to countries with a SPACE PROGRAMME.
    4. END IMMIGRATION FULL STOP. If we live in a DEMOCRACY, let the BRITISH PEOPLE HAVE THEIR SAY... IT'S OUR RIGHT ! NOT THE POLITICIANS WHO FILL THEIR BOOTS WITH GOODIES FROM OUR TAX PAYERS TREASURE CHEST !

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  • 15. At 01:27am on 29 Jun 2010, voice_of_the_british wrote:

    LETS HAVE A BLOG WHERE WE HAVE THE QUESTION, 'WHO WANTS IMMIGRATION' 99% OF THE BRITISH PUBLIC WILL SAY 'NO'
    WHY DO IMMIGRANTS TRAVEL THOUSANDS OF MILES TO WORK HERE? EASY, SOFT TOUCH BRITAIN, OUR FORE-FATHERS BUILT OUR GREAT COUNTRY AND DIED FOR IT, WE HAVE WELL PAID BACK INTO THE WORLD.. FOR HEAVENS SAKE, START STANDING UP FOR OURSELVES AND STOP LISTENING TO THE IDEALISMS OF THE LEFT WINGERS WHO WANT OUR GREAT HISTORY TRODDEN ON.

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  • 16. At 03:40am on 29 Jun 2010, clarissa wrote:

    This is a joke - right?
    Do you people living in the U.K. really not know the difference between an immigrant - an ex-pat - an asylum seeker and a refugee?
    And what on Earth is up with some of the grammer and spelling one sees reading so many posts concerning this so called problem? Could it be that the U.K. needs people from overseas to work there for their English skills? The language skills of many of the 'natives' seem to need a lot of work.
    One could get really mean and say 'yes - please - get rid of all the nasty 'immigrants' and take back your lot living overseas' but no one will. In fact this is all window dressing, and will result in nothing being done, simply because it`s not really your country`s problem.
    And I`d not be all that suprised if one found that many of the so called immigrants prove to be British born, but simply not white.

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  • 17. At 05:02am on 29 Jun 2010, SouthsNZ wrote:

    I find Easton to be one of those Islington BBC New Labour types of 1997 era.

    How can there be anything wrong with capping & controlling immigration?

    Under his New Labour chums, immigration increased tenfold. And this was before the Eastern Bloc countries joined the EU.

    As an Englishman working in New Zealand, I've felt much more secure of NZ's & Australia's immigration policies.

    Full medical, full police check & full labour market check. Full stop.

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  • 18. At 07:13am on 29 Jun 2010, mortice rigger wrote:

    You know the feeling.

    Two people get together and you just know it isn't going to work. But they are besotted with each other, is it? Or, is it they just don't know how to stop what they have begun? The common law relationship between avowed enemies was done for show, an arranged marriage, every bit as distasteful as a paedophile attack.

    And how do they show us we are wrong? Lots of one liners they think will make us change our minds, words they have read in a history book under great political careers. After all they cannot speak from the heart, if there is a heart to speak from. They'll lash out eventually, as all the frustrations of make believe win the war of attrition.

    Immigration, the great scapegoat of tough times. The evil that justifies genocide everywhere on the planet, despite our claims to be humanitarian. It is in those same history books under great political careers it just needs a slightly tougher stomach to read it.

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  • 19. At 07:43am on 29 Jun 2010, ashu284 wrote:

    I think theres a need to clearify some misconceptions..I am a highly skilled worker from a non-EU country. I pay full taxess and DO NOT have recourse to public funds. Apart from the NHS, I CANNOT claim any benefits. So I dont really see how I am a "drain" to your economy..I am surely contributing far in excess to what I am getting in return!!

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  • 20. At 08:15am on 29 Jun 2010, newageoracle wrote:

    At 07:43am on 29 Jun 2010, ashu284 wrote:
    "I am a highly skilled worker from a non-EU country. I pay full taxess and DO NOT have recourse to public funds. Apart from the NHS, I CANNOT claim any benefits. So I dont really see how I am a "drain" to your economy..I am surely contributing far in excess to what I am getting in return!!"
    I find comments such as yours very irritating. Obviously the concerns expressed about immigration do not apply to people like you and you would not be affected by the proposed measures....unless you are here on an expired visa and have brought a number of your extended family over who are not skilled workers and do need to make use of maedical and maternity facilities and or/benefits. Otherwise, your situation, as you describe it, is not relevant to the debate because you are not included in the proposed retrictions.

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  • 21. At 08:35am on 29 Jun 2010, John wrote:

    All 50 years too late. Do as in the Middle East, workers arrive after recruitment in their homeland, for a fixed number of years, after which they have to return. It does not include families if they are not earning sufficient that they pose no burden on the state for housing etc. All persons must be insured for health care so as not to use tax paid services. I don't think people would have such a problem with immigrants if they were contract only and fully insured by their employers. In the meantime, set about fixing the education system so these people are not required in the long term.

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  • 22. At 08:56am on 29 Jun 2010, Manilal Shah wrote:

    Immigration Policy during Labour Government is in shambles. I know of the cases of Unskilled workers allowed with no qualification and unsufficient knowledge of English as carer. They are allowed to sponser
    their Husband who cannot get job.After five years stay they get Indefinate leave to Stay in UK and claim Benefits.There are no check
    as to what their contibution is to UK.They some how complete required
    five year period and apply for Indefinate Stay in UK with wrong Information.Their future contribution would be Nil and would claim benefit for rest of the life.There are lot of People in this catagory
    who have been allowed.We cannot get any Genuine Information from Immigration Department.

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  • 23. At 09:58am on 29 Jun 2010, MaxG wrote:

    17. At 05:02am on 29 Jun 2010, SouthsNZ wrote:

    I find Easton to be one of those Islington BBC New Labour types of 1997 era.

    How can there be anything wrong with capping & controlling immigration?

    Under his New Labour chums, immigration increased tenfold. And this was before the Eastern Bloc countries joined the EU.

    As an Englishman working in New Zealand, I've felt much more secure of NZ's & Australia's immigration policies.

    Full medical, full police check & full labour market check. Full stop.


    And a 1000 miles from anyone, no chunnel, how many ferries a day?

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  • 24. At 10:11am on 29 Jun 2010, Vicente wrote:

    20. At 08:15am on 29 Jun 2010, newageoracle wrote:
    "At 07:43am on 29 Jun 2010, ashu284 wrote:
    'I am a highly skilled worker from a non-EU country. I pay full taxess and DO NOT have recourse to public funds. Apart from the NHS, I CANNOT claim any benefits. So I dont really see how I am a "drain" to your economy..I am surely contributing far in excess to what I am getting in return!!'
    I find comments such as yours very irritating. Obviously the concerns expressed about immigration do not apply to people like you and you would not be affected by the proposed measures....unless you are here on an expired visa and have brought a number of your extended family over who are not skilled workers and do need to make use of maedical and maternity facilities and or/benefits. Otherwise, your situation, as you describe it, is not relevant to the debate because you are not included in the proposed retrictions."

    But these are the immigrants that are being targeted by the new cap. The government is targeting skilled migrants who will not be allowed to claim benefits anyway, other than NHS, although now Theresa May is threatening to force them to take out private health insurance whilst they still pay tax and National Insurance to support an NHS system they will not be allowed to use. Skilled migrants already pay more into the system then they take from it and now might be forced to fund the EU benefits class even further. Doesn't seem fair, does it? I fear this government is stoking the anti-immigrant flames to a degree where it will become destructive.

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  • 25. At 11:01am on 29 Jun 2010, calmandhope wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 26. At 11:18am on 29 Jun 2010, liedra wrote:

    I'm an Australian currently working in mainland Europe and wanting to move to the UK to work once this contract is over (September). I'm particularly writing because I am going to apply for a Tier 1 visa and will fall into this cap requirement since I am not an EU citizen.

    I'm particularly annoyed when I read that skills should be based on how much you earned in your home country. Specialist researchers and university level educators such as myself who spend a long time in education and end up not earning particularly much (but do it more for the love than the money) are needed but already run into serious problems with the points system simply because they do not earn enough.

    It astounds me that a MBA is worth 75 points, but a PhD is only worth 45. With the quality of MBAs decreasing and the acknowledgement amongst finance people that they really aren't that great a determiner of skill, the fact that specialist researchers with a PhD are required to be under 30 and make over 30k pounds per year to qualify is silly. The average PhD graduates at around 28 years of age. The average post-doc research position pays around 25-30k pounds, and may only be 6 or 9 months duration. Once the PhD hits 30, they're required to have made 40k in the previous year to qualify for a Tier 1, which is virtually impossible at that age in academia.

    It saddens me that there is so much concentration on business skills and not academic skills, when there is a definite need for educators in the UK.

    Anyway, I'm trying to get in before I turn 30 while I am in a reasonably well paying (over 30k) position here in mainland Europe. Wish me luck, hopefully I'm not the 24,101st person to apply! :)

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  • 27. At 12:43pm on 29 Jun 2010, nautonier wrote:

    Q: Should a 40-year-old manager earning £54,000 a year in his homeland with a masters degree in business studies and perfect English be allowed to come to work in Britain?
    A:This applicant would fail under the current points system.

    Q: What about a young graduate, again with perfect English and already earning £34,000 a year in his homeland?
    A: This applicant would also fail under the current points system.
    ............................

    Immigration control needs points system and caps and proper family and marital control ... but more than anything should be based on reciprocity.

    In other words we should be taking in more immigrants from e.g. New Zealand, Canada, Australia and the USA ... as these are countries who genuninely have Britain friendly policies and are able to reciprocate on many immigration issues and have no language issues.

    We should not be taking in immigrants by the million from countries where not many British people speak their language ... this is not fair by 'reciprocity'. Where another country takes in good numbers of British people who do not speak their language then the UK could do likewise
    (counting up the ones who have already emigrated to the UK)

    I profoundly object to immigrant health tourists coming into the UK with aids and TB and other health issues or whethet its that or medical problems due to cultures with a thousands of years of marrying close relatives ... this is not reciprocity. Each one of these people, however unfortunate their predicament, will cost the NHS millions of pounds ... and with DLA and housing payments on top. This nonsense has to stop!

    Reciprocity should also include compatibility on religion and cultural values and equality.

    When will our government get this right.

    Business managers and garduates from overseas ... what about jobs for our own British graduates and buisness managers first ... is there any reciprocity with the host country?

    I think that reciprocity is an importnat issue and could mean that immigrants from ceratin country could be admitted but be health screened and certain health conditions be prohibited from treatment from the NHS... especially with reciprocity guidance.

    With proper reciprocity ... caps on immigration although useful in the interim can be dropped and better more flexible principles of reciprocity be introduced .... and enable more Brits to escape to the sun and work overseas

    Reciprocity = fairness to British taxpaying British citizens.

    Let's have some fairness shall we?

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  • 28. At 12:43pm on 29 Jun 2010, Shaunie Babes wrote:

    Why do you give examples of professional immigrants who earn 34,000 and 54,000 pounds a year ? If this was all immigration in to UK was about it would be a non issue. For every doctor or engineer who moves to this country, hundreds more unskilled and semi skilled people arrive. You are ignoring the elephant in the room by using an argument about the mouse.

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  • 29. At 1:14pm on 29 Jun 2010, whatsthisallabout wrote:

    I think the emphasis of the argument should be reversed here. Rather than saying ' we don't want to accept migrants to work here' perhaps we should be asking 'do we NEED migrants to work here'. The examples quoted in the article are probably not the typical story and I'm sure there are hundreds ( maybe thousands ) of unemployed British graduates desperate for a job. I suspect that the more typical story is that employers are attracted to migrant labour because it's cheap. This not only denies UK citizens the opportunity of employment if they have mortgages to pay, families to support etc but it also begins to erode the social standards that this country has tried to develop over the generations. How many times do you hear that the NHS or the care services 'couldn't function without migrant labour'. What are we saying - British people can't live on those wages but it's OK if you're a foreigner? What does that say about our society ?

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  • 30. At 1:14pm on 29 Jun 2010, T2theOny wrote:

    16. At 03:40am on 29 Jun 2010, clarissa wrote:
    And what on Earth is up with some of the grammer and spelling one sees reading so many posts concerning this so called problem? Could it be that the U.K. needs people from overseas to work there for their English skills? The language skills of many of the 'natives' seem to need a lot of work.
    Please tell me that was a deliberate mistake...it's grammar NOT grammer.

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  • 31. At 1:24pm on 29 Jun 2010, stezza1000 wrote:

    Mark, I have commented on your immigration related blogs before. I have very recently worked as an entry clearance officer at a British consulate in the sub-continent. I have also mentioned before the gross inaccuracies in your research & you've quoted yet another fine example of this. In your blog you refer to 'tougher rules on non-EU immigration which have significantly reduced numbers arriving'. Where oh where do you get your data from?? I and many of my colleagues still in the job can assure you, quite categorically, that the Points Based System has made it significantly EASIER and not in the slightest bit harder to get into the UK. So called 'highly skilled workers' are flocking to the UK from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh & Africa to work as store managers, restaurant managers, warehouse staff. You really think Britain needs these people with the economic situation as it is?? The system is now so easy to get around, that this is the harsh reality. And what about the sham that is the Tier 4 Student visa? Why no cap on that? Hundreds of thousands of 'students' having been pouring into the UK to work illegally and settle permanently due to an ill thought out change to immigration policy brought in by Labour, that takes any powers of discretion away from the visa officer. They even staged a period of consultation due to 'concerns' at these numbers. The result? A slightly more stringent English language requirement, but not enough to mean anything. And restricting students on lower level courses to 10 rather than 20hrs a week employment. It makes no difference! Set the limit at 5hrs if you like. Once in the country they do whatever they want! Mark, if you want to be take seriously in your immigration blogs, then take my advice, do some research on the front line. Speak to some serving British officers abroad. Find out about the reality of a completely broken immigration policy inspired by Labour. The whole system needs to be over-hauled and yes a major cap IS needed, in ALL areas of immigration, skilled, family & students. Yes we may lose some top people in our labour market, but so what, the situation has now got so far out of control that drastic measures have to be taken.

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  • 32. At 1:49pm on 29 Jun 2010, Hungry Squid wrote:

    I feel this is not the best way to tackle the immigration problem in the UK. Government should focus on education and welfare reform, train local residents to step out and take jobs. Meanwhile new policy should be imposed to stop benefit leeching, immigrants or not.

    I'm a non-EU national who's being in the UK for many years as a student and lately a tax paying employee. It is stated on my visa that I cannot receive any benefit, contrary to what many believe.

    The change in immigration policy means I will not score enough points to stay unless I move to City and look for a higher paid job. My hope of working for NGO is trashed as a result.

    I'm all for local residents to compete and take over my job; but I see no point to cap it first and hope locals to step out of their door and apply for jobs.

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  • 33. At 2:16pm on 29 Jun 2010, Carl Showalter wrote:

    14. At 01:13am on 29 Jun 2010, voice_of_the_british wrote:

    3. Use the TEN BILLION in foreign aid to keep our pensioners warm in winter (over 30,000 died last year).

    I can see the tabloid headlines now:

    Britain in reality of life shocker!
    - The Sun

    It's official: old people will eventually die
    - The Star

    Immortality myth dispelled by ongoing pensioner deaths
    - The Mail

    You'll have to excuse my slightly flippant tone there, but then again, you were tring to infer that 30,000 pensioners died purely of hypothermia only last year weren't you?

    it's true that 30,000 people died in 1999 due to some related effects of cold exposure, but these are not exclusively limited to OAPs.

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  • 34. At 2:52pm on 29 Jun 2010, Soul News wrote:

    Maybe a few british people should get off their butts and go overseas and look for jobs. Rather than just sitting at home, doing nothing and complaining all the time.

    The worrying thing is that the papers have whipped them all up into such a anti-immigration frenzy that they are falling for a total sham.

    Skilled workers from all around the world have always moved between countries as needed. That's freedom. That's something that I'd be very annoyed to have taken away from me.
    Yet ignorant british people are willing to sacrifice that right in an attempt to make themselves feel better by hitting the wrong target.

    They can't stop unskilled workers and economic migrants, so they'll limit a few skilled middle class people from coming here instead. Great idea.

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  • 35. At 3:28pm on 29 Jun 2010, stezza1000 wrote:

    32 - You came to the UK to study & you did that. If you can't achieve enough points to stay here & work for an NGO, then so be it, those are the rules. I'm sure you can take your new found qualifications back home & find gainful employment there. And although your visa states 'no recourse to public funds' - believe me, many thousands of visa holders in the UK find ways around this. For example, so called 'students' come to the UK from the sub-continent and within no time at all fall pregnant. Believe me, this is common practice. They therefore require & receive NHS assistance, thus gaining the use of significant public funds. I would love to live in Australia, but their stringent immigration laws make this a pipe dream. But, I accept that. I don't try to abuse their system by applying for a student visa to gain entry to their country, only to work illegally there as so many people do in the UK. Immigration control is there for a reason.

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  • 36. At 3:33pm on 29 Jun 2010, stezza1000 wrote:

    34 and others like you, are you not listening? Forget the 'media frenzy' as you put it, immigration to the UK is out of control. There is nothing else to it. So although your liberal left wing views may all be very nice, they don't work in the real world. I have worked in immigration for many years. I and many colleagues are extremely frustrated with Britain's shambolic immigration rules, which don't maintain any semblance of real control over who gets into the UK. We're also frustrated with the views of people like you, who don't accept the reality for what it is. We're a small island, with population out of control & a huge factor towards that is lack of control over immigration from outside the EU. It needs to be capped, now. And with a much more severe cap than the government propose.

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  • 37. At 3:42pm on 29 Jun 2010, NoImSpartacus wrote:

    I think for everyone in this country, we should keep track of what they contribute and what they take from the system. Immigrants who contribute more than they take, are more than welcome as far as I'm concerned. There also seem to be so many locals who claim so much and never seem to put anything back into society. We need more contributors than takers for this country to work, and should take steps to reward people who give and discourage people from taking all the time. Perhaps have a lifetime limit of what able-bodied people can take and show compassion for the genuinely disabled.

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  • 38. At 4:08pm on 29 Jun 2010, 7890123456 wrote:

    #34 - soulgrind,

    Well, that's just it. Many other countries don't allow much immigration, by our standards. They actually look out for the interests of their native population. Imagine that.

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  • 39. At 4:47pm on 29 Jun 2010, OutInTheSticks wrote:

    It seems that the UK is making the same mistake as Canada.
    Make your tertiary education unaffordable or difficult to gain access to, and then import skilled workers.
    Maybe cheaper for the government on the short term, but detrimental to the country's original inhabitants.

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  • 40. At 5:42pm on 29 Jun 2010, Pat berks wrote:

    Someone once advised look for the ‘Big Lie’ – which is often so big it’s invisible
    The Big Lie here is that we have ‘skills shortages’ and need to import hundreds of thousands of people from outside the EU to fill these ‘gaps’. Do you honestly believe that EVERY ONE of these people has a skill that cannot be sourced from within the UK (pop 62 million ) or the wider EU (pop 500 million?)
    No of course not: it’s plainly ridiculous. The genuinely scarce skills are probably in fields like academic research and leading edge surgery, and number in the hundreds…
    What it really means of course is that Big Business can use the rest of the world as a labour source to undercut wages and increase profits. This is particularly noticeable in fields like IT where there’s been widespread abuse of the system via ‘inter company transfers’

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  • 41. At 6:01pm on 29 Jun 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain

  • 42. At 8:18pm on 29 Jun 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    tell me how on earth is IT a skill that we dont have in the UK????

    are subcontinent IT workers really in such shortage in the UK that we have brought in sooooo many from the subcontinent? or is it really due to the fact that employers have been exploiting their accpetance of low wages therefore putting the british worker out of a job.

    its widely known that many IT workers were brought in from the subcontinent in light of the fact that they accept lower wages.

    i say have referedum on uncontrolled immigration and you will find that most people in the UK are against it (even the british born asians!)

    listen to stezza1000 -

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  • 43. At 8:34pm on 29 Jun 2010, Toby wrote:

    Mark, this seems like yet another of your regular contributions to the multicultural discourse. I join the calls to please give us a breakdown of the nationalities of the newcomers, what profession they ply and how long they stay for.

    I believe there is quite a difference between the intentions of eastern European workers and non-eu workers, i know because i work part time in a restaurant with both groups. The eu nationals are mostly aged 18-25 and are here to earn some money, improve their already good english and eventually return to their country of origin.

    The non-eu nationals who generally speak low quality english, work long hours and live in communal lodgings owned by the restaurant owner. These guys intend to work as designated 'skilled' catering workers until they have gained indefinite leave to remain, when most intend to move to London and work in other professions, some have gained this status already and have brought their family over... In addition to this many 'skilled catering' guys just wash plates or bus tables. These guys are also here to stay once they get the pretty much automatic right to indefinite leave to remain.

    The system is so open to abuse it is ridiculous. Leave a gap and employers will exploit it. Our great British culture of trust and the ability to trust others has brought us great gains. Now the tide has turned.
    The people and the government need to wake up and smell the coffee, making decisions on immigration based on short or medium tern economic gain is wrong.

    If we lost a few percent of GDP at the cost of stemming the tide of non-eu migrants tomorrow, most people would accept it without too much trouble.

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  • 44. At 9:18pm on 29 Jun 2010, dee andrew wrote:

    While the numbers unemployed is so high there is no need for these 'gifted' employees. Anyway much of immigration is due to numbers coming in on the pretense that they are students, going to legitimate colleges and others, which have sprung up around the country to import these 'students'. These are the areas that need to be addressed.
    Also I would agree with Toby no. 43 about restaurant workers as I have had a similar experience.

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  • 45. At 9:45pm on 29 Jun 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #42 barbara99 please read this http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/06/indian-professional-group-opposes-uk-immigration-cap.html

    The comment from an IT worker says there are 40,000 unemployed British IT workers here!

    But Mark will never believe that.

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  • 46. At 9:48pm on 29 Jun 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    stezza1000 your comments make me weep, they ring so true. There is no hope for this very small island, especially as most immigrants stay in England.

    I have some contact with immigraton officers, they say our ports are like sieves, they just keep walking in, anytime they please, they don't have enough staff to moniter the vehicles.

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  • 47. At 10:04pm on 29 Jun 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 48. At 10:39pm on 29 Jun 2010, hectoring wrote:

    I too think that the government is mixing up the facts to cloud the issue. There is huge difference between highly-skilled migration and low-skilled, between EU an non-EU. Between those who come to stay and those who will in turn return home.

    I regard myself as very liberal, and not bothered at all by issues of race. However the current immigration system is way too open to abuse, and in the end does not even benefit those (mostly immigrants) who should receive rewards for being hard working individuals who want to better themselves.

    I only recently met a couple of the sub continent, recently married, recently emigrated to the UK with a skilled-worker visa. Husband works in IT, just above minimum wage. Missus is registering with GP as soon as possible as a child is planned. No matter that they share a room in an overcrowded house and can barely provide for themselves. Of course as soon as the baby arrives, they'll be on the housing benefit list.

    Now, I wonder, how does coming to the UK and condemning their kid to a life on benefit in semi-poverty constitute an improvement in their life conditions? In their home country they would have been considered middle-class, they received an education and certainly did not need to resort to public charity.

    On the other end of the spectrum, I know of a family of 5 from the Middle East, applying to come and live in the UK as the younger brother has won a scholarship for a PhD in London. They are all highly educated, skilled migrants, able to provide for themselves and likely to give a positive contribution to the British economy. Yes, the colour of their skin and their religion might bother some, but generally their moving to the UK will be good for them and for the adoptive country.

    Why can't we have more of the latter and fewer of the former?

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  • 49. At 10:58pm on 29 Jun 2010, GeoffWard wrote:

    At 07:43am on 29 Jun 2010, ashu284 wrote:
    "I am a highly skilled worker from a non-EU country. I pay full taxes and DO NOT have recourse to public funds. Apart from the NHS, I CANNOT claim any benefits. So I don’t really see how I am a "drain" to your economy. I am surely contributing far in excess to what I am getting in return!!"
    Newageoracle replies (#20) “I find comments such as yours very irritating. (**)Obviously the concerns expressed about immigration do not apply to people like you (**) and you would not be affected by the proposed measures....unless you are here on an expired visa and have brought a number of your extended family over who are not skilled workers and do need to make use of medical and maternity facilities and or/benefits. Otherwise, your situation, as you describe it, is not relevant to the debate because you are not included in the proposed restrictions.”
    ………………
    I am consistently exercised by the always-unspoken, covert comments that imply that ***we all really know*** just WHO we want in and WHO we want to block from entry to this country.
    If I understand the subtleties of British postings, the ones ‘we’ want to come here are top-quality professional workers without families from the first world and BRIC. You know, people who spend their salary in the UK and then return to their home country before their visas expire. We are happy to welcome (as ‘income’) bona fide students from any country, as long as they go home before their visas expire. We want preferential access from certain ex-British colonial countries where the populations are largely of West European historical origin. We are happy to accept the displaced white farmers from Zimbabwe. We want to emigrate at retirement, retiring to the sun and getting our UK pensions increased with UK inflation.
    If I understand the British postings, what we don’t seem to want is unregulated immigration from ANY country, but especially not from Eastern Europe and the Indian sub-continent. We do not want travelling romanies from beyond our shores to wash up here and beg their way to a better way of life on British streets. We do not want Eastern European ‘mafiosos’ to use EU free-movement to ship slave-prostitutes to the cities of Britain. We do not want preferential access to the UK from certain (but not all) ex-British colonial countries; countries with populations of potential immigrants measured in hundreds of millions - and extended families the size of small countries – for these countries the British seek the strongest controls it is possible to imagine. We do not want our historic cities to fall like dominos, being sequentially numerically dominated by foreigners until no English city can be called English any more. We do not want our schools’ reputations for quality to be further eroded by immigrant remedial programmes. We do not want our sons and daughters to be ousted from employment by immigrants who accept lower wages than our children have been earning. We do not want to be taken for fools, accepting ‘refugees’ who are really economic migrants – especially from North African countries.
    Here and now, in 2010, the archetypal Briton in this small crowded island is white Caucasian. Archetypal Britons like immigration in their own image, “and why not?”
    Now the UK elections are over and election-speak can give way to Speaking-The-Truth, perhaps it is time to stand up, to call a spade a spade, and discuss immigration issues with intelligent statistics, without euphemism and in the plain language of the Common Man.

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  • 50. At 11:19pm on 29 Jun 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    Ecolizzy.

    thankyou for pointing me in the direction of that said article.

    It only confirms what i know to be true already...my husband works in IT and over the years he has seen the number of british IT workers disapear from the IT floor and be replaced by hundreds (i kid you not, esp in large banks, financial institutions) cheaper IT workers from the subcontinent who all arrived on the "HSM" migrant visa.

    Of course then the subcontinent workers import wives from the subcontinent too...ask yourselves why girls of subcontinent origin british born are not willing to marry these supposedly highly educated and wealthy IT men???? and being a british born asian i can answer that but better not...suffice to say that bring on the english competency test for alll migrants.

    3 cheers for Theresa May for having the guts to address the immigration problem in the UK.

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  • 51. At 00:22am on 30 Jun 2010, wobblewig wrote:

    What is England about? Does it really care about other countries raising their standards of living or is it just a greedy "I ME MINE" country of Beatles fame?
    The two examples of your Q & A section would surely be morally obliged to STAY at HOME to lift the prowess of the country they grew up in.

    Stop this immigration madness; it interferes with the development of all countries involved, including Britain.

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  • 52. At 00:47am on 30 Jun 2010, Toby wrote:

    @hectoring

    Why on earth does your middle eastern prospective Ph.D. student friend need to bring his whole family with him when he studies, if he is the youngest brother of the brood? surely he is not the breadwinner? if so how does he intend to win bread for 5 on the income he can earn while studying for his Ph.D. ?

    if ever there was a case for not allowing dependants in, this is it.

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  • 53. At 08:34am on 30 Jun 2010, SILVERSTREAMER wrote:

    to be honest i think its a little bit of a joke. i am a expat living in new zealand, people from countries like new zealand, australia canada should in my mind be welcomed into the united kingdom over european countries as we share a common bond. i hope that one day the Uk will wake up and realise the commonwelath does exsist and that we have more in common with these countries then the EU. joining the EU in my personal opinion has ruined britain

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  • 54. At 08:54am on 30 Jun 2010, D wrote:

    The way our schools are pumping out uneducated violent and unemployable kids, who think X factor and biog brother are viable career options and the lack of parental control means we need all the help we can to keep the country moving, do something about the heavily drunk and lazy thousands us high tax payers are subsidising to sit around and complain!

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  • 55. At 09:01am on 30 Jun 2010, D wrote:

    ok, how many brits shop at Asda rather than local stores????? why? is it because you get the same thing cheaper? does it not concern you that the money going to leave the country and not towards the economy? Well exactly the same with pabour, why have half educated, unmotivated english IT worker when you can get the cream of Indian IT for much cheaper and much more pleasant, not likely to smash you in the face with a pint pot or turn up with hangover every monday or worse still call in sick once a month, its a no brainer, england has to learn to become a commodity and at the moment they are considered in the same vein as US carmakers! cheap tat and not very good!

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  • 56. At 09:07am on 30 Jun 2010, D wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 57. At 09:09am on 30 Jun 2010, D wrote:

    Oh god, makes you wish the British forefathers didnt go round the world looting and occupying! but i guess you cant change history!

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  • 58. At 09:15am on 30 Jun 2010, D wrote:

    on my way to work in the city of manchester i see more non whites on their way to work than whites, but go past the pub at 11 in the morning i see only whites! very funny because im aware that my tax is going to the ones sat in the pub who will soon be a burden on the NHS. thats what i see with my two eyes!

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  • 59. At 09:16am on 30 Jun 2010, calmandhope wrote:

    So now you can't call a racist a racist without getting moderated?

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  • 60. At 09:38am on 30 Jun 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @55

    if subcontinent IT guys really are such a cool and hot commodity how come british born girls especially those of subcontinent origin are not falling over themsevles to marry you???

    the fact that IT subcontinent workers have no choice but to return to the subcontinent to get wives is very telling on how cool and hot a commodity these guys really are.

    my husband, his 3 brothers and countless friends (ps all beautifuly civilised) work in IT have had lots of experience with subcontinent IT workers and beleive you me none of it is positive .

    opiniion subcontinent IT worker = dont think outside of the box...get on with work in a robotic manner, lack any flair, and dont integrate with any other (nonsubcontinent) workers in the office during office time or outside of office hours, willing to accept extremely low wages, lowered employment standards in IT, bring over partners from subcontinent for whom translators are required.

    if the IT subcontinent workers in the UK who came over on HSM visas are really your cream....whats the bottom of the barrel like????

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  • 61. At 10:06am on 30 Jun 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    GeoffWard @49 and Stezza1000 worth reading,

    they know what they are talking about.



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  • 62. At 12:57pm on 30 Jun 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    I don't know if these figures are correct, in fact who does know how many people now live here, the census next year will not be accurate. If you were an illegal immigrant would you fill the form in?

    But this makes interesting reading, and explains british unemployment...

    http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1290690/The-British-towns-worker-migrant.html

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  • 63. At 1:00pm on 30 Jun 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    Oh dear,it seems I`ve touched a nerve with one of our resident anti-Whites-3 posts in 8 minutes!

    Al of them justifying genocide against Whites............

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  • 64. At 1:06pm on 30 Jun 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #50 opiniion subcontinent IT worker = dont think outside of the box...get on with work in a robotic manner, lack any flair, and dont integrate with any other (nonsubcontinent) workers in the office during office time or outside of office hours, willing to accept extremely low wages, lowered employment standards in IT, bring over partners from subcontinent for whom translators are required.

    if the IT subcontinent workers in the UK who came over on HSM visas are really your cream....whats the bottom of the barrel like????


    Barbara I've now read your explanation many times in comment blogs or newspaper and BBC website pages. I've also read that much of the work has to be re-done, is old fashioned work, has many bugs, is slow and as you say they don't think outside the box. And the worst thing I think for British IT people, must be training the foreign person who ultimately will take their job for a lower wage.

    When I worked I was a lowly computer operator, so do know something of this field, it's a bugger when the programmes won't work! ; )

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  • 65. At 2:31pm on 30 Jun 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @62 that article is absolutely soooo true...

    and the next time any one who speaks up against anit-immigration i suggest they pick locations 1, 2 and 3 to spend a day in each before they expect the rest of us to put with uncontrolled immigration!

    hows about we only allow immigration from countries where we export our lovely expats to....that would do away with all of the EU and subcontinent migrants cos i certainly wouldnt even dream of living in either of these places...come to think of it...neither do their own nationals...hmmmm





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  • 66. At 3:28pm on 30 Jun 2010, emily wrote:

    Whatever the past policies on immigration I agree with an earlier post that it is worrying that the general idea or the future seems to be to cut back on training our own people to a high level (thus enabling us to cut the deficit) while importing overseas people we have not had to pay to train. Bottom line accountancy type politics. No good for our hard working young people who now take a degree and professional qualification in order to qualify to work in the local coffee shop. Look at the state of recruitment for newly qualified teachers and nurses... it is cheaper and easier to take on someone who needs no further professional support and leave our newly qualified people on the scrapheap. Very short sighted and I fear not something that will be reversed under the new coalition. I personally like living in a society with a good mix of people from all over the world. It enrichs me and my country. However, if people are being used as a form of labour which disadvantages the future of young people and hence of long term development then it would be good to use up our qualified graduates first before filling the posts with people from other countries.

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  • 67. At 4:17pm on 30 Jun 2010, MacTurk wrote:

    In general, the fact that so many people want to go to the UK, or Europe generally, should be viewed as a positive. It is really a problem of success; your society is seen as successful and open. It also benefits the UK, as the best brains can move there and mingle. This is one reason why the City is so dominant in finance.
    In the future, the main competition between countries and cultures will be about attracting the best brains and the most entrepreneurial people. any further tightening of immigration rules in UK will probably handicap the country in this contest.
    As for the comments by BiiBoidshateu "Oh dear,it seems I`ve touched a nerve with one of our resident anti-Whites-3 posts in 8 minutes! Al of them justifying genocide against Whites............" First, a paranoid racist idiot(What anti-white genocide? Does he not know that ultimately we are all out of Africa anyway?). Second, he cannot spell. It is striking that most of the anti-migrant comments seem to involve people who might charitably described as marginal in terms of being sought after by employers.
    Lastly, the country with the largest number of citizens resident in other countries is the UK. People who live in glass houses should be careful about throwing rocks, no?
    Barbara99 "hows about we only allow immigration from countries where we export our lovely expats to....that would do away with all of the EU and subcontinent migrants cos i certainly would not even dream of living in either of these places...come to think of it...neither do their own nationals...hmmmm", sorry you are wrong. Huge numbers of Britons reside in Spain and France, quite a few here in the Czech Republic. You might not dream of living here, but lots of your compatriots have no problems, and most would not, in their own words, "move back to Blighty".

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  • 68. At 4:55pm on 30 Jun 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @67 do France and Spain have the same immigration problem as the UK...from what i can make out most migrants stop off in these countries (even the asylum seekers) only with one single aim - to get to the uk.

    also we all know that those expats living in spain and france are retiries....not the same thing as people migrants seeking jobs, rights, benefits, education, health service, independent religious schools, translators, special diets, special places of worship.....is the Czech republic willing to provide all of these to all nationalities of the world wishing to enter your country at your taxpayers expense????

    if the answer is yes...yeah....every body lets all move to the Czech Republic!!! nah...i still love my blighty.

    with regards to british expats in the Czech republic...how many exactly have moved over from the UK to your country...3...4...5...or 6 not hundreds or thousands like we have had to endure...again not the same thing!!!

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  • 69. At 5:00pm on 30 Jun 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @66 IT was a superb career path for many of our young graduates...indeed many i know over 20 years entered this sector...but if we bring in foreign workers willing to accept lower wages then where does that leave our youth?

    i think our policticians and corporate bosses have sold the future of our children and the furture of their own children too.

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  • 70. At 5:36pm on 30 Jun 2010, Wiser than you wrote:

    Let's reopen and review ALL asylum and immigration and naturalisation claims since 1997, and deport all those who (on the balance of probabilities) have lied, omitted or exaggerated things. That'll be 90% of them gone. Citizenship-cancellation (including of all subsequent imports and encumbrances) legislation to accompany this.

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  • 71. At 8:52pm on 30 Jun 2010, 7890123456 wrote:

    @67 MacTurk

    "the country with the largest number of citizens resident in other countries is the UK"

    Exactly. They remained UK citizens, because it isn't so easy to immigrate in the country where they are working or studying.

    As for the country whose citizens have spread around the world most in recent times, that would surely be China or South Korea. Despite this, South Korea has very few immigrants, most of them being Vietnamese wives of South Korean farmers. This strict immigration control helps Korean graduates to find employment and guarantees them a high disposable income. Therefore, some of the 'diaspora' has returned.

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  • 72. At 9:57pm on 30 Jun 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    67. At 4:17pm on 30 Jun 2010, MacTurk wrote:

    What anti-white genocide?
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    White people make up a very small percentage of the global population,yet we have the grotesquely unfair situation of:

    Africa for the Africans,Asia for the Asians,White countries for EVERYBODY.

    Most formerly all-White countries are predicted to have non-White majorities sometime in the next few decades,so we will be an even smaller and exponentially-shrinking slither of the global population pie.Ergo,a "bloodless" genocide of White people,which "anti-racists"(anti-Whites) such as yourself are cheering on.

    67. At 4:17pm on 30 Jun 2010, MacTurk wrote:

    Second, he cannot spell
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Oh,but I can:

    W-H-I-T-E G-E-N-O-C-I-D-E

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  • 73. At 00:55am on 01 Jul 2010, voice_of_the_british wrote:

    WHEN IMMIGRANTS CAME TO BRITAIN, THEY BROUGHT 'NOTHING'
    THERE ARE NOW 3 MILLION UNEMPLOYED AND MORE ARE ARRIVING BY THE HOUR !
    I WANT MY COUNTRY TO STOP BEING INVADED.
    I WANT POLITICAL PARTIES WHO OPPOSED IMMIGRATION TO HAVE A FAIR HEARING
    WITHOUT ANY 'NASTY' COMMENTS AFTERWARDS FROM THE BBC'S MULTICULTURAL NEWS AND WEATHER TEAM. I'VE MORE THAN HAD ENOUGH. THE REASON WHY MILLIONS OF FOREIGNERS ARE BEING BROUGHT HERE IS BECAUSE THE MARXIST LIBERAL DEMOCRATS AND LABOUR AND CONSERVATIVES ARE ALL ONE POLITICAL PARTY... THE MARXIST THREE ! THEY MUST BE REMOVED.. OUR COUNTRY IS DYING. GO TO OLDHAM, LEEDS, BIRMINGHAM, LONDON, CARDIFF, GLASGOW, LEICESTER, ITS NOT FAIR !!! IM INDIGENOUS AND I WANT MY RIGHTS LIKE THE INDIGENOUS LAWS SET DOWN BY THE UNITED NATIONS !! CHECK THAT OUT READERS ! NOTE THAT EVERY BBC WEBSITE OR NEWS 24 STUDIO SET HAS 'RED' FOR MARXISM?

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  • 74. At 08:54am on 01 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #73 I agree with you "voice of the british", I was always quite happy to have a small steady trickle of foreign people into Britain. They did add a lot to our society, but that trickle has now become a flood. And as you point out the BBC is fully in favour of it, I've noticed they are more multi cultural than our society itself.

    But I agree with Biiboidshateu we are doomed...

    Most formerly all-White countries are predicted to have non-White majorities sometime in the next few decades,so we will be an even smaller and exponentially-shrinking slither of the global population pie.Ergo,a "bloodless" genocide of White people,which "anti-racists"(anti-Whites) such as yourself are cheering on.

    I worked out in rough figures there are about a billion european descent people in the world, and there's 6 billion others, so we will die out as a race within the next 50 years. And if you read James Lovelock, we as a species will die out in the next hundred years anyway, there might be a billion left of humans, I don't envy the next generations!

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  • 75. At 10:52am on 01 Jul 2010, ijk wrote:

    @voice_of_the_British

    Please go back to sleep and wake up, u might wake up to the reality that is "NON-EU IMMIGRANTS ARE NOT YOUR PROBLEM" THEY ARE YOUR EXCUSE FOR EVERYTHING THATS WRONG WITH YOUR SOCIETY

    they are giving more than they are getting which is more than i can say for those who dont even give at all, for stupid reasons, lack of training , lack of government this and that, they have to give incentives to people to move to find work or go to school(unheard of!!!!).

    Those who are moaning should ask themselves key questions ,where were you when those who knew the value of education were burning the midnight oil studying hard ,how come there are still some highly skilled British indivduals in this society , what have they done that you havent, how come they have high paying jobs than you have, , these people have obviously been determined to make it and they have chased their dreams squarely , not waiting for the government to train them (this seems to be the solution to everything ) , training yourself is indeed an investment you know.

    And as long as more people still go to study irrelevant courses at uni like contemporary dance and african history (for lack of eg of totally silly courses), till the end of time highly skilled immigrants would still be needed .
    These skilled foreign workers dont just wake up, sell everything they own and decide to study any course, they do their research, they know what the market needs and they do all they can to meet the demands of these organisations.

    if anything they should be paid to show the british the way forward, be paid to pass on their skills to the British lest they moan to death.

    KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, i am a foreign worker and i negotiate my salary thank you very much,only been here 6 years.i have invested in myself and i am proud of what i have been able to achieve.

    Now i choose what kind of training i want and convince my employer that it would be good for my personal development and guess what they sign it off and there i go again acquiring more knowledge with the aim of becoming even more highly skilled.

    Employers would at least want something to work with before they start investing thousands on someone in the name of training,some people cant even read and write , where do u start from with them?

    HATS OFF TO ALL MY ,SKILLED, HIGHLY SKILLED NON-EU, BRITISH ,EU BROTHERS AND SISTERS,WHO HAVE SUCCEEDED AND CONTINUE TO SHINE AGAINST ALL ODDS,CAP OR NO CAP.

    MOANERS YOU SIT THERE AND WAIT FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO WANT SOMETHING BETTER FOR YOU.

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  • 76. At 1:14pm on 01 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #75 ijk if you loathe the british so much and think we are such scum why do you live here? Surely you don't want to put money into the coffers of such a wastrel society?

    Oh I forgot you came because you are greedy and want "loads of money". You deserted your own society and family, who probably miss you greatly and love you dearly, and the enormous skills you have they could have all benefited by, instead of being wasted on the british useless society.

    So it was all for your own gain and further education, not to benefit the likes of the british. How dare you say we are all lazy and don't work, the majority do very hard indeed, and many many hours spent at work, so stop boasting about your own prowess, just think yourself lucky you're allowed to live in this wonderful society, that accepts you freely.

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  • 77. At 1:53pm on 01 Jul 2010, nautonier wrote:

    Most of them can and should just go home as not needed here ... just the same as millions of British born people are not needed and would NOT be made welcome as immigrants in most of these foreign countries... i.e. zero reciprocity

    This nonsense has to stop ....

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  • 78. At 3:04pm on 01 Jul 2010, BP100 wrote:

    Hi Mark
    I found this blog accidentally and is very interesting because it is related to NON- EU immigration in which I belong.
    Before I put my comment let me comment on some of the comments above.
    @48. At 10:39pm on 29 Jun 2010, hectoring wrote:
    “as the baby arrives, they'll be on the housing benefit list.”
    @68. At 4:55pm on 30 Jun 2010, barbara99 wrote:
    “also we all know that those expats living in spain and france are retiries....not the same thing as people migrants seeking jobs, rights, benefits, education, health service,”
    It has been already discussed and again I am pointing, we the Non EU immigrants are not allowed for any benefits. Many British people are not aware of this. Many of my office mates were under illusion that I had a red passport, own house and getting equal benefits until I told them the reality. I have been to UK for 4 years now and paying roughly £8000 tax per year and in return I have used NHS service 3 to 4 times for my daughter that too because she is too young (4 years old) and I don’t want to take any chance. Overall my tax along with the person whose wife is pregnant gets balanced and bear in mind some of these pregnant females are working with IT and finance department paying roughly £10,000 tax per year.
    @70. At 5:36pm on 30 Jun 2010, Wiser than you wrote:
    “Let's reopen and review ALL asylum and immigration and naturalisation claims since 1997, and deport all those who (on the balance of probabilities) have lied, omitted or exaggerated things.”
    Fair enough then let’s return all the taxes paid by these people from 1997 and return their bank balances
    @ 73. At 00:55am on 01 Jul 2010, voice_of_the_british wrote:
    “WHEN IMMIGRANTS CAME TO BRITAIN, THEY BROUGHT 'NOTHING'”
    Immigrants came with their skill and talents to support themselves and British economy. Non- EU student brings on an average £5000 as a course fee.
    I have been hearing this immigration from the start of this year because it was a hot topic for votes in election. people are not realizing that these topics are for window dressing and votes rather than creating hatred on some empty minds.
    I do appreciate cap is required I also feel burden with population especially when I go to London. I also feel jealous when I hear about illegal immigrants having bank accounts, credit cards, NHS service, rental house and job without paying any TAX and after 5 to 8 years getting permanent stay so what’s the difference as against tax paying highly skilled migrants. But limiting the skilled migrant is not the solution the root problem for the government is benefits.
    Benefit at many times is misused by everybody (EU, Non-EU, British, others)
    Some of the points which need thinking,
     Why government don’t stop student visa which brings thousands of pounds in fees.
     Why thousands of illegal immigrants in UK are not removed completely (because they work at low wages and do jobs which many youngsters thinks of low profile)
     Why not control on EU who can work on construction site for as low as £3 per hour.
     Non-EU Skilled migrant is a very small part of 500,000 immigrants in 2008 and limiting is just an excuse. Skilled migrant work hard, eared money and reinvest in British economy try to adopt British culture. Whereas EU migrant earned money, use benefits and return with that money after some years.
     Why benefits are given in the form of cash which ends up in buying alcohol and cigarettes instead give them food and clothing vouchers which can only be redeemed with quality things and not alcohol etc..
     Why to pay winter fuel to people not required, who can afford easily and who are out of the house on holiday in some hot countries during winter.
    With world cup going on I felt this is my country I was supporting England and have had flags on my car but reading this limit and immigration issues I felt liked this country hasn’t still accepted me.









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  • 79. At 4:32pm on 01 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @78

    1)with regards to wives working in IT from the subcontinent being pregnant...absolute tosh...the wives that these guys bring over set up an housewives...and do not work in IT...they do not contribute taxes and up being burdensome by requiring additional resource which the UK does not have to spare. look on any IT office and you wont find any subcontinent IT wives that are preganant -

    2) i dont mind giving these people back their taxes if it means they leave...then maybe we can reclaim all our offshoring jobs too. what would the subcontinent do then????

    3) student visa is a joke...infact the easiest way to get into the UK ..you sign up to a pretend college and attend a pretend lesson and all of a sudden you are pretend qualified....all the time you are really working in the takeaway! (no taxes being paid)

    4)we are trying to take steps to reduce the number of migrants...anyone from the subcontinent doesnt want to stop this cos there are more relatives and partners waiting to come over ofcourse!

    5)we would control the EU workers too..and who knows that might be the next step but that doesnt mean we should forget about all the noneu migrants ;-)

    6)many subcontinent IT workers have taken jobs that british guys should be doing...

    7)noneu workers DO NOT INTEGRATE hence all the ethnic shops, tranlators, places of worship - folks from the subcontinent never ever integrate...you will see more afrocaribean mixed race relationships because they have integrated but not the subcontinent folk who are always forced to return to the subcontinent for partners

    lastly i am british born asian and i can tell you that uncontrolled immigration is the worst thing thats happened to the UK.

    integration isnt just about putting an england flag on your car.



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  • 80. At 4:36pm on 01 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    nautonier...

    tell me which countries are you talking about that we should take bake british expats...spain, france...why dont you leave that decision to the government of that country...thats not any of your business surely, not only do you tell the british government what to do with immigrants being non uk born but also other countries...somewhat arrogant.

    and if you are seriously saying that we have loads and loads and loads of british born workers out in india and china who run the serious risk of being thrown out should we adopt such a policy here....

    try again.

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  • 81. At 4:51pm on 01 Jul 2010, Nick wrote:

    What about a young graduate, again with perfect English and already earning £34,000 a year in his homeland?

    ================

    No. 34,000 a year is £8,615.80 in tax and NI.

    The government spends 700 bn / 60 million = 12,000 a year per person.

    Accepting someone on 34,000 a year means that other taxpayers have to subsidise them to come to the UK.

    Minimum wage in the UK is 12,064 a year. They pay 1,815.64 a year in tax and NI.

    So it takes just under 2 people on minimum wage to work for a year, consuming no government services, to pay for the cost of this person coming to the UK.

    Now, if you cut public spending, then it might become economical.

    The missing issue, what about the huge number of people here illegally, paying no tax, consuming resources. Get rid of them, and you have jobs for the large number of unemployed and soon to be sacked public sector workers. You will also get a lot of housing and the housing benefit bill can come down.

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  • 82. At 5:27pm on 01 Jul 2010, BP100 wrote:


    @79. At 4:32pm on 01 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    Appreciate your reply except the last line about my car and flag it wasn't good.
    my comment for you was only aginst "Wives" but you
    replied in all.However my comments were not particularly for anybody (you or any person).My aim was just to spread the correct message it may be the interpretation or my way of explanation haven't gone properly because we are just talking by writing behind the scenes.However I wan't go on further debate but will enjoy the show silently...

    Lastly about integration.
    Who doesn't like to get integrated. But there are certain limitations
    for anyone and everyone

    I do like to integrate (also with british born asians) but unfortunately I am married and can't enter any further mixed race relationships...

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  • 83. At 7:09pm on 01 Jul 2010, John wrote:

    I would add to my previous comment, if this country REALLY does need immigrants from outside the EU, first it should not be made so difficult for descendants of ex-British people in Aus/NZ/Canada etc to come to the UK. Second, why do we need people who do not share language/culture/religion etc when we could recruit from the Philippines, which shares all of our norms, including humour! As we say in the Middle East, the "mafia" from certain countries appears to have got a hold on our policies so that we end up with so many from places the majority of UK people would well do without, if only they had been asked.

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  • 84. At 08:58am on 02 Jul 2010, Littlefork wrote:

    We are starting to see already that the emergence of exceptions to the temporary cap (elite sportspersons and ministers of religion) -no doubt more will follow. The much heralded points based system when firt mooted was intended to reduce the number of antry/visa schemes from the then 70 odd means of entry to the UK to just 5. Once the MPs started to get concerned about votes in their locality then the number of sub categories started to rise dramatically......and here we go again!! The cap only applies to a very small slice of overall entry to the UK -and it's the slice to do with highly skilled migrants. But let's not delude ourselves -by highly skilled we mean NVQ Level 3 or higher. So that means we continue to get legitimate applications from the care home sector which has been rife with allegations of illegal workers for so called "supervisory" care workers; indian restaurants (Bangladeshis in the main) for cooks, chinese restaurants -(which according to well placed UKBA officials resembles a scheme for family reunions!) and indian IT workers (off shoring). To have any meaningful "cap" let's tackle ALL the entry levels of immigration into the UK -students, spouse/partners/family of students, workers etc....and just how many so called ministers of whacky/diverse religions do we need in the UK? Thank goodness for the English test -that might at least filter out a few.


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  • 85. At 2:30pm on 02 Jul 2010, Neilsman wrote:

    Clarissa should check her spelling of grammar

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  • 86. At 3:21pm on 02 Jul 2010, ijk wrote:

    @76 ecolizzy,
    if you loathe the british so much and think we are such scum why do you live here? Surely you don't want to put money into the coffers of such a wastrel society?

    Your comment shows that you have not understood at all what I have written, in which case you shouldn’t have even bothered to comment on what I have written. It also reeks of envy

    Where did I mention in my comment that I have any hatred for the British? au contraire I have British friends who are doing beautifully well in this same society, who I admire and aspire to be like, who when we get together we share ideas and help each other and that’s why I fail to understand your rant.

    What I do loathe are people who really have not tried complain about anything and everything, people who have been given too many opportunities to be something in life and still are nothing, then complain when people who have worked hard, people who know what they want out of life, people who have struggled, people who have a focus and foresight succeed in your country.

    Your problem clearly is the idea of non British people succeeding in your territory not immigration.

    Once again for those who are doing their very best I salute you!

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  • 87. At 4:15pm on 02 Jul 2010, ijk wrote:

    @ecolizzy,
    forgot to add,

    It takes a lot more than being British to be hired these days and thats the reality of the world we live in today unfortunately for some .

    Even with the skills and degrees,do you now how hard it is to keep proving yourself constantly ,work and study at the same time , do you know how hard it is to make people see beyond things like race or a foreign accent, but see the talent, the person behind all that.

    Since when did wanting loads of money become a problem , whats the point of all the work we do, if its not be better our lives, give out a little and save some for the raining day.
    i have earned everything i have today, NOTHING CAME FREE.

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  • 88. At 6:15pm on 02 Jul 2010, 7890123456 wrote:

    @87 ijk

    Good for you that you are so in-demand, but your presence in the UK is likely denying a British worker a job. Your presence is bad for the majority of the population of the country, but good for your employers. Workers don't need you as competition in the labour market. You cause 'degree inflation' and damage British people's ability to negotiate salary and benefits. If democracy in the UK was functioning correctly, you probably wouldn't be there.

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  • 89. At 8:23pm on 02 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #88 Thanks for the back up 7890123456 exactly my point. These people forget we have many thousands of clever graduates chucked on the scrap heap by people like ijk.

    And just for the record ijk, although I don't know why I'm bothering, we run a very successful business that employs 50 people, and they're all British we wouldn't employ an immigrant if you paid us! It's our prerogative that they all speak excellent english so that our customers can understand and trust the person.

    My three kids all have good degrees, one of them has two, all speak a second language. So go on how do I envy others?!

    It's your damn smugness that gets me, you have had a tremondous amount of luck and advantage in your life. So sod anyone else who hasn't, not everyone is useless that's not as smart and smug as you. I'm a socialist but I see you're not, just like our labour party.

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  • 90. At 00:46am on 03 Jul 2010, Michael wrote:

    The more immigration the better. The population of the UK has quadrupled since 1800 and it is a better country than ever to live in - would anyone really want to go back to 1914 or 1939? Why should we not aspire to quadruple again, to 240 million? Yes, we would have to relax the green belt around London. So what? Why are we so limited in our ambitions?

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  • 91. At 07:22am on 03 Jul 2010, Lynn wrote:

    If Cap need to apply to immigration, it should be applied to both EU and non EU. non EU had to pay all income tax and national insurance, however, they do not eligible for any public fund ( eg. child benefit or low income benefit, etc). EU immigrants are allowed to apply all the public funds, that is why England in high deficit. think before you plan...

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  • 92. At 08:15am on 03 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #90 Ha,ha, Micheal this http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/apr/18/foodanddrink.food is why you should be more worried about our population increase. Starvation, when the oil runs out, but if you have no kids or grandchildren, it won't matter. When I was born the population was around 55 million, britain was a much nicer place then.

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  • 93. At 7:09pm on 03 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @90

    240 million you say???

    dont worry about the green belt...thats somebody elses patch..but is it ok with you if the 240 million come and all live down your street, your borough???

    you dont think that green belts need to be protected????...lets build lots of high rises down your street and you plus 240 million can live in them....only them

    i have different requirements for my street and my borough and you are not allowed to speak for me or my neighbours.

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  • 94. At 9:02pm on 03 Jul 2010, supaJohnny wrote:

    We need NO MORE IMMIGRANTS. Not 100000, 10000 or even 1.
    Enough is enough. How dare you say that the British people can't cope without immigrants.
    in light
    and bloody angry
    supajohnny

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  • 95. At 3:31pm on 04 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    More downside of immigration....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10500124.stm

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/184835/Eric-Pickles-blasts-Labour-for-migration-cover-up

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/142795/Immigrant-gang-jailed-for-4m-tax-evasion/

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  • 96. At 5:46pm on 04 Jul 2010, Stevem65 wrote:

    Voice_of_the_british = Comedy gold - keep it up!

    Your ideal UK of the future, with the door fimly shut to all immigration, will result in this country dying a slow, painful death.

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  • 97. At 6:09pm on 04 Jul 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    90. At 00:46am on 03 Jul 2010, Michael wrote:

    The more immigration the better. The population of the UK has quadrupled since 1800 and it is a better country than ever to live in - would anyone really want to go back to 1914 or 1939? Why should we not aspire to quadruple again, to 240 million? Yes, we would have to relax the green belt around London. So what? Why are we so limited in our ambitions?
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    "The population of the UK has quadrupled since 1800"

    Which had NOTHING to do with "immigration",and started from an extremely sparse population level.

    "would anyone really want to go back to 1914 or 1939"

    Before millions of Whites were killed in genocidal wars fought for the benefit of the money-grubbing British establishment and their international finance partners?

    YES.

    "Why should we not aspire to quadruple again, to 240 million? "

    1.Because I don`t want to see my racial group eliminated.

    2.Because Air Strip One(especially London and the major cities) already resembles a rat-infested sewer.

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  • 98. At 7:55pm on 04 Jul 2010, Fedupvoter wrote:

    I sincerely hope that these new rules are not an attempt to stop genuine refugees and legitimate asylum seekers from outside the E U to be given the right to work here. I have always been proud of Britain as one of the few countries in the world which can offer a safe haven to such unfortunate people. I also agree with the previous poster who says he is an immigrant who works here and pays taxes-so why should he have to also take out private health insurance. What always really annoys me is when I see some of our own fully fledged born an bred British citizens, who have been quite happily living on benefits since the day they left school,complaining about foreigners coming here and getting "our benefits". I would def make sure though that noone with a criminal record for serious offences is allowed into this country.

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  • 99. At 8:12pm on 04 Jul 2010, Fedupvoter wrote:

    Voice of the British, comment number 15, states that this great country was built by our forefathers and they died for it too. I'd like to remind this poster about the great part of history he hasn't mentioned- that millions of non EU, Commonwealth citizens from Indian sub continent, Asia and Africa also died for our Queen and country in the two great wars. We wanted them then alright didn't we? Let us not also forget that when our forefathers built the great cities of the Empire, including Liverpool and Glasgow, to name but two, it was on the blood and backs of slaves-Africans stolen from their own countries and brought to this great country of ours and her colonies against their wills. Oh we wanted them here then alright didn't we?

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  • 100. At 8:13pm on 04 Jul 2010, lei wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 101. At 8:57pm on 04 Jul 2010, lei wrote:

    ha my truthful comment was not aloud to be shown never mind but one day voting and things will mean nothing cos me at 26 dont understand where the justice is when it comes to immigrants and what not again never mind we will always have this problem so whats the point in complaing about it!!!! LIVE WITH IT

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  • 102. At 9:05pm on 04 Jul 2010, lei wrote:

    i am mixed race so if people think i am rasist i am not i live down such a nice street every one gets on and everyone has so much respect for eachother and the lady who is in her 80's on the corner got accused of been rasist because we have to put up with hassle from the family who reckon 90% of the time they dont speak english now like i said everyone down here gets on so well but people are starting no no sorry we've all had enough of the noise the abuse the threats the rasism EVERYTHING i to be fair dint really have to much of a problem with the immigration problem and in all honesty i dont vote because i dont get it IF THE POLICE AINT GONNA LISTEN AND THE COUNCIL AINT GONNA LISTEN what good is goin out and voting against these things gonna do my neighbours are out almost every night in there garden shouting playing music urinating up our fences hurling abuse at normal hours at people and then get louder between 10pm and 5 am and APPARENTLY this is a enviromental health issue so at 3am when you've had enough you cant sleep you've had zero sleep because of the previous 4 nights can some1 please tell me what i do because my kids are late for school because were tired and finally fall asleep at 5 am because the police said its not there problem so they cant come out HOWEVER AT 9AM TODAY SUNDAY I NOTICED THEY WERE ON THE TRAMPOLINE IN THE GARDEN SO HEY HOE I WOKE THEM UP AN YOU KNOW WHAT I WAS PRETTY PLEASED WITH MYSELF ha ha ha but no no no a few hour later the police came to my house because of this and because the kids was arguing on the 28th about whos country was the best i told my boy to get in as they was both irrotated me HOWEVER next doors child for 30 mins with the adults in there garden geering repeatedly said POLAND IS BETTER THAN ENGLAND POLAND IS BETTER THAN ENGLAND POLAND IS BETTER THAN ENGLAND for 30 mins that went on nothing inbetween so i asked him NICELY to be quiet 2 seconds later an adult from the house lent over into my garden laughin asking me why id asked him to stop i replyed ive had enough now and he laughed and said WELL POLAND IS BETTER THAN ENGLAND!!!!! yeah i lost it and told him to go back then now again the police said i shouldnt of swar!!!!!!!!!! RIGHT SO OK WE LISTEN TO EVERY BIT OF NOISE MORNING NOON AND NIGHT THEY WEE UP OUR FENCES THE HURL ABUSE AT PEOPLE LAUGH AND GO ON IN THERE LANGUAGE SO NO1 UNDERSTANDS THEM OH AND STAND NEAR CARS SPITTING ON SMASHED BLATENTLY INTO THE BACK OF A CAR BUT IF I SWEAR COS IVE HAD ENOUGH OR I WAKE THEM UP BECAUSE IVE HAD NO SLEEP IM IN THE WRONG ERRRRRRRRRR HOW?????? these are not working class people these are not nice people and these people are abusing the fact they've come here to live on our benefits spend tax payers money and then the govenment DARE have a problem with single parents on benefits i dont get it so why would i vote why would i want to vote and if i vote will they move these idiots next door out of this country that they abuse they have more of a voice than any britsh person so im thinking of changing my nationallity!!!!

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  • 103. At 10:02pm on 04 Jul 2010, pinballwizard wrote:

    This stepping stone policy before a full cap is just to gauge the opinions of the home pffices full strategy of immigration control.The conservatives are with an european coalition to make for a more integrated europe but with restrictions to labour and movement of NON EU citizens.
    I wonder what the the next five yeras will bring. It sure is interesting.
    Though I doubt democracy and peoples opinions will be implmeneted in the coaltion policies.

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  • 104. At 10:13pm on 04 Jul 2010, InAQuandry wrote:

    Capping immigration is not going to work, I will say it again and keep saying it, we should sort out our unemployment problem before letting anyone else into the country.

    In this country there are hundreds if not thousands of people who would like to work, but don't have the right skills, train them to do these jobs. Of course there are the ones that don't want to work at all because it's too cushy for them on the dole, so if they don't want to train, give them an incentive, take them off of unemployment benefit, if that gives them the needed push in the right direction all well and good.

    Look in the papers or on-line, there are plenty of jobs out there, skilled or otherwise, taking a low paid perhaps mundane job to start with is just that a start in the right direction or train them and fill up whatever jobs there are now with the people here already and then and only then decide on who to let into the country.

    However it's not just about training the people, the prospective employers advertising the jobs has to draw the line somewhere skill wise, after all a person who applies may have some of the skills but not all, train them for the rest of the skills.

    Incidently, has anyone figured out yet why out of all the countries in the World, EU and Non-EU nationals want to come here so desperately.

    Think about it, what do we have that other countries don't apart from a waste of time Government.

    God I wish I had the money to emigrate, you wouldn't see me for dust.

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  • 105. At 11:29pm on 04 Jul 2010, Fedupvoter wrote:

    I read and re read comment number 102 several times and can hardly understand what is being said. If this is the standard of written English by a British citizen then I can see why an employer might choose a well educated immigrant. I regularly deal with Indian employees in my job and on the whole I find them to be extremely polite and diligent when dealing with them. I can't recall speaking to one yet who was rude or indifferent. Unfortunately I can't say the same about some of my fellow British counterparts when dealing with them. The work attitude is not the same. If we are speaking here purely about "immigrants coming here taking British jobs" then I would say British people have to up their game a bit and make themselves appear to be the better choice for employers. I'm not saying this applies in every case, but it does have to be addressed in my opinion.

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  • 106. At 11:57pm on 04 Jul 2010, ijk wrote:

    @eco-lizzy

    you fail to understand me.

    i came to this country unskilled, everything i learnt , i learnt here,i met the opportunities here ,i had a plan for my life, i came across an opportunity , paid for it and i held on to it like my life depended on it.
    FOR YEARS I STUDIED HARD AND WORKED VERY VERY SMART,SORRY I MAKE NO APOLOGIES FOR THAT.

    The opportunities are here, some people are either very scared to take them, i understand , it could be daunting to take on new challenges,some are too lazy,unfortunately some can't afford it and sadly some are satisfied with mediocre achievements and are quite satisfied with just enough forgetting that just enough will not get you far these days.

    from your comment,you seem successful, i wonder how you made it even with all this immigration palaver hmmmmmm let me guess..... luck ?

    well done to your kids , infact kudos to them, i like a success story , i wonder how they got those degrees, hmmmmmmmmm another guess.... luck?

    Luck? what luck?luck has nothing to do wth anything , sheer hardwork in the right direction is what it is.

    smugness? NO! i am just extremely proud of myself and angry when people make it out like non-eu workers are parasites when this is clearly not the case at least not always.








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  • 107. At 00:10am on 05 Jul 2010, 7890123456 wrote:

    @98 Fedupvoter:

    There can be very few 'genuine asylum seekers' in the UK, as virtually all of them would have had to have travelled through at least one safe country (France) first.

    As for us taking 'our fair share', what about other developed countries taking their shares first? I don't see Japan or South Korea falling over themselves to take in asylum seekers. Japan hasn't exactly been saintly in the past either, for all those posters who laugh about Britain's immigration troubles being her 'just desserts' from the days of empire.

    @90 Michael:

    The best argument for stopping immigration is that we simply don't need any immigrants. In the past, a large population was considered necessary for war, and for manufacturing capacity. But now many manufacturing jobs have gone to Asia, and there's no reason to suppose they'll return.

    We don't want to compete with China and other developing countries on price or quantity -- that's a race to the bottom. We can only hope to compete internationally on quality, and we're not doing as well as we should be here. We need to focus on education (formal and otherwise), meaning that we need small class sizes, only English-speaking kids in school, university lecturers who speak understandable English, proper job training from employers and a labour market which doesn't leave millions stagnating in unemployment for months to years at a time.

    There will always be specialist or localised manufacturing jobs, but as with any 'professional' jobs, these will require fewer 'human resources' than the factory jobs of the past. 5000 craftspeople can be replaced by 500 assembly-line workers, and they can in turn be replaced by 50 robot engineers. The jobs get fewer the further up you go, and although some new industries are created, they are dependent more on the abilities and training of workers than on their raw numbers.

    So, for those who say that Britain should continue to accept immigrants, I ask: What does Britain need immigrants for?

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  • 108. At 00:37am on 05 Jul 2010, 7890123456 wrote:

    @99 Fedupvoter:

    Whether or not we wanted immigrants then, we neither want nor need them now. If we are to be punished for the errors of our forefathers, then let it be as a result of a fair trial in a court of law, and let the same happen to other countries too.

    Let's not punish ourselves by purposely mismanaging our borders. It sounds totally ridiculous, but this is apparently your argument.

    Other countries might not even recognise that taking in immigrants we don't need is supposed to be a self-punishment, and then our legal punishment might come later. For instance, when I speak to Koreans, they tell me they think we (the UK) are taking in immigrants under the (in their opinion misguided) belief that it is good for us. If we are repaying some kind of moral debt, they aren't aware of it.

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  • 109. At 00:41am on 05 Jul 2010, Fedupvoter wrote:

    Re comment 107: My understanding of the term "asylum seeker" is a person who has applied to th UK Border agency for protection. I'm not aware that such persons can only apply in their first port of call, but I stand to be corrected by someone who works in this field if such a poster is online here. Without being too pedantic, by referring to genuine asylum seekers, I was referring to someone fleeing persecution in non EU countries.

    As regards Japan or whoever else taking "their share", Im not concerned about that. My concern is that Britain does not turn it's back on those in genuine distress. To me that is what being British has always been about. I have to say that Im deeply disappointed at the prevalent attitude towards immigrants on the majority of posts. Concerns about employment is one thing but in my opinion I'm sensing that a lot of the arguments have more to do with racism. I understand that we are a small island nation and we can't go on indefinitely letting more and more people in. But if we have to have controls then race should never be the question.

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  • 110. At 01:26am on 05 Jul 2010, Fedupvoter wrote:

    Re comment 108: I didn't say we have to take in immigrants as a punishment my post which you refer to was reminding the poster called "voice of the British" (though I doubt he asked them all if he could speak in their name!) that the forefathers of many non EU immigrants fought and died for this country just as his forefathers did. He appeared to be glossing over this fact in his post. As to your own comment that we neither want or need immigrants, that is purely a matter of opinion which is why we are all on here arguing about it. I personally have no objections to someone coming to this country as a refugee and gaining employment if they can prove that they are the right person for the job. Very often these refugees take lowly paid jobs such as cleaners and in fast food restaurants. Any resident British person can easily apply for those menial jobs too if they really want to.

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  • 111. At 01:26am on 05 Jul 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    109. At 00:41am on 05 Jul 2010, Fedupvoter wrote:


    But if we have to have controls then race should never be the question.
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Why not?

    Non-White countries have no problem with being "racist".

    White "anti-racists" display a remarkable degree of White supremacism in assuming that only Whites must be non-racist while the rest of the world laughs at them for their masochistic and genocidal beliefs.

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  • 112. At 09:16am on 05 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    Figures for how many casualties there were in WW1 and WW2, that's if you can trust Wikipaedia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

    People can make up their own mind now.

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  • 113. At 09:18am on 05 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    Figures for Asylum seekers from the ONS, I presume one can trust them.

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=261

    It appears there are about 25,000 a year, and I welcome them. The other 500,000 immigrants are just economic.

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  • 114. At 12:25pm on 05 Jul 2010, Fedupvoter wrote:

    Re comment 111: I don't see anywhere in any of my posts where I have stated that only whites can be guilty of racism. I am well aware that a racist is a racist no matter the colour of their skin. My point is that in my opinion Britain should not be viewed as a country with racist views. Thankfully there are many more like me in this country who wish to treat people on merit rather than the colour of their skin. My forefathers died fighting in the 2nd world war to defend this country against a man who held very racist views. I would prefer to think they
    didn't offer that ultimate sacrifice in vain.
    Reading some of the posts pm here almost makes me ashamed to be British.

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  • 115. At 1:00pm on 05 Jul 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    114. At 12:25pm on 05 Jul 2010, Fedupvoter wrote:

    Re comment 111: I don't see anywhere in any of my posts where I have stated that only whites can be guilty of racism
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Nor did I say that you did,but you`ve totally brushed aside the fact that other nations don`t worship at the PC Religion`s shrine of "multi-culturalism"(a euphemism for government and media-backed anti-White policies),and you`ve stated that race should play no part in immigration selection,and I`m willing to bet,also no part in selection of sexual partners and family relationships.

    Thereby furthering the goal of White genocide.



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  • 116. At 1:50pm on 05 Jul 2010, Stevem65 wrote:

    "115. At 1:00pm on 05 Jul 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:
    ...furthering the goal of White genocide."

    Yes quite right - the clear 'hidden agenda' of our last government.

    However, looking at this from a rational point of view, your opinion is obviously driven by a ludicrous conspiracy theory.

    Take a pinch of white man
    Wrap him up in black skin
    Add a touch of blue blood
    And a little bitty bit of red Indian boy
    Oh like a Curly Latin kinkies
    Oh Lordy, Lordy, mixed with yellow Chinkees, yeah
    You know you lump it all together
    And you got a recipe for a get along scene
    Oh what a beautiful dream
    If it could only come true, you know, you know

    What we need is a great big melting pot...

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  • 117. At 3:01pm on 05 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @fedupvoter..

    not everyone here against immigration is racist...i am a british born asian and i say again for the 100th time uncontrolled immigration is the worst thing that has happened to the UK.

    Also all those people who you feel we should be letting in just cos they are seeking asylum...do you understand their psychi....do you really know that they will be thankful, loyal and true to the country which provided them a safe haven?

    how do you know that the minute they are here they will forget about all the troubles they have escaped and start to demand their rights....eg regarding food, religion, separate schools.

    Fedupvoter...its nice to think the way you do...but you really dont understand most immigrants (the economic kind or the asylum kind).

    i always say if you are happy to invite these people into your living room then its ok to let them into the country. but if you would think twice about opening your front door for anyone esp noneu countries then apply that to good old blighty.

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  • 118. At 8:30pm on 05 Jul 2010, Fedupvoter wrote:

    Re comment 117:barbara99:it may well be that not everyone here opposed to immigration is a racist,but it's certainly hard to tell. I can't say how anyone will behave once granted leave to live here just the same as I don't know how you would behave. A lot of immigrants have very successfully integrated into our society- your own family presumably amongst them. Are you aware that some people who advocate stopping immigration don't want it to end there-they welcome repatriation of those already living here.I would expect future immigrants to integrate fully into our society.

    You are dead right- it is nice to think like me. I was brought up by my wonderful parents to respect everyone regardless of colour or creed and to treat them as I would expect to be treated. You should try it sometime. As to whether I would let non EU immigrants into my living room- I would be unaware as I don't request that friends or friends of friends flash their passports at me before coming to dinner.

    To the poster who posted on comment 115- I hope that was a large bet you put on because I have no qualms about mixed race relationships nor mixed religions nor mixed or same sex for that matter. I thank god that I am not eaten up with mistrusting or disliking someone because they look different to me. I'm not posting on this topic anymore as it's obvious there are some pretty entrenched views that will never listen to reason.

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  • 119. At 9:33pm on 05 Jul 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 120. At 00:06am on 06 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @fedupvoter.

    you may not request the passport of who ever enters your house cos you pretty much know who they are. my point is that do you understand the psychi of the large number of immigrants who have entered the british isles. do you really know how they think with regards to british people, because if you did then i doubt you would be so loud in shouting for their entry to the UK.

    recently a group who havent integrated (most immigrants have not integrated, infact setup segregated communities) are now stipulating that their children not be taught music...this part of our national curriculum. are you happy for the national curriculum to be altered in order to favour immigrants desires and wishes...?

    a balance has to be acheived. thats sensible.

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  • 121. At 00:07am on 06 Jul 2010, terence vasey wrote:

    I have great concern that the economic crisis will generate considerable unemployment resulting in real racial violence due the the perception that the immigrants (illegal and legal) are "stealing" British jobs, putting unecessary pressures on local services, raising taxes etc.

    This unrest will be fueled by various political parties to suit their own vested interests.

    The Government needs to demonstrate they are taking strong action to curb immigration and repatriating illegal immigrants and their families. This action needs to be taken now to avoid this very potential dangerous situation arising in the first place.

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  • 122. At 01:16am on 06 Jul 2010, senthil kumar wrote:

    The queen says canadiians are so nice and she is greatful to be the queen. And we are all her citizens.

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  • 123. At 01:22am on 06 Jul 2010, senthil kumar wrote:

    Barbara99- I hear u loud and clear.

    But be mindful that common people can't differentiate between u and fresh off the boat indian person until u open ur mouth.

    Also keep in mind that ur parents would have been like them too. And perhpas they came when the migration to uk were not controlled too. ( I don't know if they were educated but having that aside I don't think they would have assimilated well like u).

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  • 124. At 01:25am on 06 Jul 2010, senthil kumar wrote:

    Barbara99-one more thing the Bradford riots were by second generation people. How much did they assimilate?;)

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  • 125. At 10:01am on 06 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    HI Senthil,
    actually its easy peasy to differentiate between british born asians and those fresh off the boat....not just due to accent.....tops that dont match your bottoms really badly...ie no sense of style ;-. list is endless.

    actually my parents are soooo different...they kept us away from religious institutions instead chosing to teach us at home and consequently my brothers and sister and i have a really healthy attitude to religion....we keep religion and culture for the home but we are well aware of our faiths and our origin.

    my mum, in hers late 60`s travels all over the UK using public transport on her own....so she can do more than just map read!

    again the folks in bradford...a group that i wouldnt have let into the UK based purely on how they think i.e group that doesnt want to integrate. sorry Senthil i missed your point? most of the immigrants in bradford are quite against westerners and view them as infidels (taught that from birth). so rioting isnt a surprise.

    at the end of the day...uncontrolled immigration is bad for the uk and if you let in people its got to be where the UK beneifts hugely - NO OTHER COUNTRY WOULD ALLOW IT NOR DOES IT. so i get pretty fed up of people not born in the UK trying to tell me, (born in the UK) what i should and should not accept.

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  • 126. At 10:03am on 06 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @122...i am really pleased to see that you feel you are a citizen of the british queen.

    when you fly home to india do you fly air india or british airways????

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  • 127. At 10:44am on 06 Jul 2010, Emma wrote:

    Maybe instead of worrying about immigration caps from outside of the EU we should be looking at how to slow down those moving to the UK from other parts of Europe. Yes immigrants can fill gaps in the labour market but there are plenty of British people who sit at home on their bums sponging off the state who should be made to fill some of these roles.

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  • 128. At 2:35pm on 06 Jul 2010, senthil kumar wrote:

    barbara99 - well it seems you have had a different bringing up. But can you say the same to all second gen folks? No right? So let us not use the same perception on everyone. It does more harm than good for sure.
    I loathe most of the indians (and many other ethnicities) too for how they behave & think . But what can i do ? When i walk down the street (as a guy i am limited how i display my traits to show i am cultured and different) but people dont pick that at all. When i open my mouth to speak everyone is astonished how come this guy speaks very well. So there you go.

    again if you are worried about uncontrolled immigration then you should also speak against EU folks (where there is no cap)- i am not talkign about educated ones. And yes they also undercut wages dont they? And many times they carry knives and the police have a hard time dont they?
    Dont tell me there is much more in common with some one from Romania or Bulgaria. In short a cap should be strictly enforced and assimilation must be very key indicator.

    To answer your question when i travel to india i use the best airlines in terms of service. It used to BA but now my choice is Lufthansa. I haven't travelled by Air India at all but i hear Jet Airways is good. I dont have good impression about AirIndia at all. But A woman from St Vincent in my office went to Canada by Air india very recently and she loved it. Perhaps because she does NOT look indian she got a good service lol

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  • 129. At 4:41pm on 06 Jul 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    Oh I see BBC,you`ve allowed my no.47 post to stay up for 6 days,then remove it.

    Hardly logical is it?

    White genocide:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1050593/Only-babies-born-England-Wales-white-British.html

    Those that have,and continue,to support it will face a grim reckoning in the future.

    Think on..........

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  • 130. At 5:47pm on 06 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    if i had my way all immigration would be stopped with a FULL STOP.
    unfortunately for the time being we cant do much about eu immigration but the non eu we can. so lets tackle that one first as its easy. no more.

    with regards to eu...actually i have a different take on them compared to the noneus...they havnet demanded separate schools or places of worship, the ones that live in my area are very clean and well mannered which cant be said for any of the noneus in our borough. also with regards to the eastern europeans....well their 2nd generation kids completely assimilate in british society. they adopot british mannerisms and fully integrate where as you can go 3rd 4th subcontinent asians are just as segrated as the first generation.

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  • 131. At 11:55pm on 06 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    HHhhhmmmm immigrants and their children don't even have to speak english these days, it's all done for them....

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1292466/School-forced-buy-translator-half-pupils-dont-speak-English.html?ITO=1708&referrer=yahoo

    I wonder if this will get cut in the Tory spending, I don't suppose so, just kids in the shires not getting anything as usual.

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  • 132. At 00:06am on 07 Jul 2010, lebrian wrote:

    Amazing to see how "MIGHTY BRITAIN" swirls about in fear and panic due to immigration.It gives the impression of complete hate and disgust for foreigners. Its so easy to blame immigrants because they have no voice. How many of you know how many British jobs went to China compared to non EU + EU countries combined? How many jobs do you hope to redeem by turning your anger on non EU immigrants? It is important to balance immigration, but its unfair to target a specific group of immigrants. The geopolitical landscape has greatly changed. The smart will always exploit fear make the situation look worst to consolidate power and the weak will also be victims. God Bless You Brits

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  • 133. At 00:59am on 07 Jul 2010, lebrian wrote:

    I have read through most of the comments posted on this blog and its really hard to believe some of them. The good thing about them is that they express peoples minds. However, people should not be so short sighted.Why don't we move one step forward and see things more clearly. Immigration is the least of the problems we face. The greatest problem in my opinion is fear. Fear of terrorists, fear of immigrants taking our jobs, fear of a disease outbreak, fear of losing our pride, fear of mixing with others, fear and fear. Has any one of us ever imagined what he/she will be 400yrs from now? The idea seams strange and out of context but that exactly what it is. We spend our entire lives worrying over things that will come to pass. On the day you die, none of these issues will protect you. You will graduate just as u came. Its high time we turned to God. We just have to realise that we are helpless by ourselves. I urge u all to look at the bigger picture.

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  • 134. At 04:47am on 07 Jul 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 135. At 07:48am on 07 Jul 2010, missproliberty wrote:

    The proposed cap on immigration means that not a thing will be achieved in decreasing the numbers trying to gain access to this country. I listened to a programme on Radio 4 on Tuesday 6th July when Jon Manel discussed the issue and talked to illegal immigrants working in London. It is apparently extremely easy for illegals to get here if they have the money to pay unscrupulous people to help them. False papers, stolen NI numbers that employers are supposed to check but don't. Just in the Chinese quarter a spokesperson said that at least one third or more are illegal immigrant workers. Multiply that all over central London and the rest of the country and the figures must be staggering. My point is, if Jon Manel's researchers could find out this information how come the Government officials cannot do the same. 22,400+ illegals were sent back home last year. That is a drop in the ocean compared to those who should not be here in the first place. Our infrastructure cannot take much more.
    I do not believe that emmigration counteracts the illegal immigration figures. I would advise the relevant goverment officials and errant employers to listen to the programme on Radio 4 iPlayer. Its an eye opener.

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  • 136. At 12:20pm on 07 Jul 2010, v_glos wrote:

    This is the one of the most racist policies in Britain in recent times. It is rather short-sighted to believe that the average working class person from India or other commonwealth countries, who have grown up through a British style education and who can recite more nursery rhymes than the average British born child would have more difficulties integrating than a non-English speaking Pole.

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  • 137. At 1:13pm on 07 Jul 2010, joshua goldblum wrote:

    People entering the UK should have a job to start if they are comming into the country.
    However this is not the problem. The problem is the people comming into the country of holiday, visitors and illegals this is where the probs lie to which the gov is avoiding.
    Very simple, stop all people whom are not Brit citizens entering and they should be required to supply an address where they will be staying during their visit.
    You can quite clearly see if some one is here on holiday or entering for other reasons. It is as simple as stopping an old Anglo Saxon Grannie and searching her on suspicion of being a terrorist. Nonesensical. But that would be against a persons HR to stop a real Al-Quada terrorist now wouldn't it?
    How spineless this country has now become.

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  • 138. At 1:32pm on 07 Jul 2010, EdwinaTS wrote:

    Immigration and emigration needs to be compared with staff turn over and staffing levels in companies.

    The Daily Mail pointed out some problems experienced as a result of immigration without sufficient preparation, monitoring and control. This is not to say that they are right to drive an agenda. The Daily Mail is an unelected and unsuitable driver of political agenda. The role of newspapers is to report news.

    It is the elected government which should define the problems accurately and figure out the solutions and their priorities.


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  • 139. At 3:52pm on 07 Jul 2010, Kathy Howarth wrote:

    I don`t think its just about capping immigration, it also how our resources are being drained by the number of people coming to this country, especially the NHS. Perhaps a points system could be activated with regards to the NHS, where as when you first come to this country, the first 12 months you have to pay for any medical procedures that you need. Each year after that could then be discounted eg. year 2, you pay 80% of the bill etc. That way, money can be raised for the NHS, waiting lists will probably go down and people wanting to come to this country just for the free NHS will think twice about doing so.

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  • 140. At 4:40pm on 07 Jul 2010, sagat4 wrote:

    Stop whinning you babies and celebrate the diversity immigration brings. And oh stop reading tabliods.. it numbs the brain as we are already finding out in the comments section

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  • 141. At 6:13pm on 07 Jul 2010, joshua goldblum wrote:

    140. At 4:40pm on 07 Jul 2010, sagat4 wrote:
    Stop whinning you babies and celebrate the diversity immigration brings. And oh stop reading tabliods.. it numbs the brain as we are already finding out in the comments section
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++It doesn't do any good whatsoever for the Brit Citizens or the country. All it has done and will continue to do is erode all our traditions until we have no traditions left. I dont want diversity I want our traditions to be passed down from generation to generation.
    Stop ALL imigration and reverse the trend by sending all the immigrants home at their cost.

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  • 142. At 10:11am on 08 Jul 2010, Tez wrote:

    We shouldn't need to import those with the skills we need. If we don't already have them, then this is a terrible indictment of the previous Governments policies & education-system.
    What are our own graduates learning - if not the skills this Country needs? Surely we should be more forward-looking by ensuring that our own graduates acquire those skills - even if we have to SUBSIDISE them as an incentive.
    In the meantime, if we MUST import those with the skills our own people REALLY do not have - then it should be only for AN AGREED PERIOD OF TIME.

    We have to stop non-EU immigrants from bringing their families & relatives to the UK. This is simply unsustainable. Perhaps only when these 'bread-winners' have worked here SOLIDLY and contributed adequate Taxes, over a decent period of time - then we could consider this - but it should only apply to their IMMEDIATE family - IE: Wife & children.

    It cannot be in any way fair or even reasonable - to continue this importation of labour - when SO many of our own indigenous people are being made redundant, losing their homes, going onto Benefits etc - we can no longer accept this situation.

    We have to stop the EXCUSES and the INFLUX - and get our own people TRAINED - RIGHT NOW!

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  • 143. At 10:12am on 08 Jul 2010, David Windsor wrote:

    Fiddling whilst Rome burns. There is no sense in wasting parliamentary, committee etc time on this because until someone grasps the tasks of controlling immigration from the EU it just doesn't have any effect. All it does is provide the coalition with a mealy mouthed "we're doing whatever we can" response.

    The effective approach would be to work out how we can limit EU immigration and the benefits available to immigrants. Its too big an issue to allow the government to bleat that they are powerless. We shouldn't have a powerless government. We should have a government that has the courage to stand up for what they know makes sense and the people of the UK want. In the meantime, while you're mustering the courage from somewhere, please treat the UK with some respect and stop wasting time on trivia in the belief that it might keep people happy.

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  • 144. At 11:56am on 08 Jul 2010, Michaelnotts2 wrote:

    Immigration lets in more millions when we have Millions already unemployed

    MADNESS

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  • 145. At 12:47pm on 08 Jul 2010, The Bloke wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 146. At 1:37pm on 08 Jul 2010, Lenispal wrote:

    Sometimes these issues are too simplified, for example a case is made for an immigrant with a higher degreee and managerial experience in his or her own country. Fine, looks promising. But, as is happening in higher education today, this highly qualified person has no idea about the cultural norms in this country, treats female colleagues like dirt and generally behaves like a 19th century boss.

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  • 147. At 7:34pm on 08 Jul 2010, BP100 wrote:


    @Mark

    I can neither stay away from this blog nor I am happy to read some of the comments.I think Mark you need to stop this comments now. it is just increasing the hatred and truning small sparks into fire.

    To all,
    I think its worth looking once....

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jun/26/non-eu-immigration-uk-statistics#


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  • 148. At 7:41pm on 08 Jul 2010, GeoffWard wrote:

    Can we have a new blog on Homosexuality as a criterion for 'immigration'?
    I've a feeling that this will be the Rationale Of Choice for many thousands of incomers from the middle east, from north africa and from islamic s.e. asia.
    How do you check the sexual status of a presenter? How do you prove otherwise? Especially as most persons presenting will have no indication of this alternative sexual state in their work/social history in their home country.

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  • 149. At 9:14pm on 08 Jul 2010, oldschool101 wrote:


    I feel a lot of people on this blog have no real concrete eveidence to back their arguements.
    Let me give you a real example. I work in IT. I am a contractor and just finished a one year stint with a well known European IT services company. The department I left of 20 people were replaced one by one by workers that came in with ICT visa's. Why are displacing workers that were doing the job with overseas workers a sensible proposal. That seems completely pointless and counter to the spirit of what most people expect from a good immigration system - in that let the most talented in without impacting UK workers. The current system is Swiss Cheese. It needs to be far more sophisticated. Sadly currently it is anything but.

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  • 150. At 9:17pm on 08 Jul 2010, spandi13 wrote:


    Barbara99
    " not everyone here against immigration is racist...i am a british born asian and i say again for the 100th time uncontrolled immigration is the worst thing that has happened to the UK."

    I think your parents were lucky to immigrate to a country and get integrated into a society where this frenzy against immigration wasn't there at all. Secondly, how long would the phrase of "British Born Asian" make you feel more British than Asian and more entitled to take the cause of the common British people losing jobs due to immigration.

    Hope the phrase remains a safe phrase of identification and entitlement for you before it alters the way it did for "White farmers in Zimbabwe" or generally the whites in South Africa.

    Perhaps, intolerance anywhere is a threat to tolerance everywhere,

    In the meanwhile, good luck for your lobbying for the NON EU/Asian exclusion policy, for its success will ensure Zimbabwean history doesn't repeat in UK

    Thank God the posts that I have read so far are hardly representative of the attitude of Britishers towards Non-EU citizens. I have lived and worked in the UK (Glasgow to be precise) and people are far more welcoming.

    I hope BBC has a provision to capture the educational qualifications of the readers who would like to post and their location. You might discover some unexpected results. (Whoops my IT mind of the subcontinent just doesn't stop)




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  • 151. At 10:51pm on 08 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    Spandi13 you are so wrong about how upset most of the british electorate is with regards to immigration. it wastn something raised time and time again over the campaign period for nothing.

    i think if we were to send a ridiculous number of immigrants to Glasgow which would then without doubt start to have to have a seriously negative impact on schooling, nhs, council resources and funds you might have a wake up call.

    again plse dont speak for me or my borough....if you wish to invite all immigrants to Glasgow be my guest (ps word of advise might want to check with your neighbours to see how they feel about it first though).

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  • 152. At 11:55pm on 08 Jul 2010, Flatout_maniac wrote:

    I am an IT professional, my standard of living has been driven down like anything in the recent years because UK advertised jobs are attracting majority of the application from Indian IT workers happen to be in UK with HSMP tier visas,

    I am no racist, however the amount of work, student visas handed out to these people not few but in masses is having a real bad effect on the brit workers.

    I have heard the stories of these IT workers from India complains to others about 'we pay tax , we dont get anything back and why you complain' and i am totally sick of it who gave them the right to come here and not finishing your contract and going back but hang around with total manipulative lies to home office, drag as long as its possible , after 5 years they all have indefinite leave to remain and they bring in thier flock of families here, for example: GBM building in reading is full of them and only handful british workers are there against indian IT mass.

    now the recession they also out of work and competing and pricing the british workers out of the market as usual, the leftists here need to tell thier lame excuse to people like me.

    the companies based here employ them because they provide dirt cheap wages in return of 12-14hr per day work & they live in overcrowded houses.

    it not one two, but millions of them already here and laughing their way,
    many has personnelly told me that there are millions of engineers are preparing to come over, they know thier meeting target for hsmp/tier1/student visa techniques and unless this government bring in robust plan to stop this hell there is no end, absolutely not.

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  • 153. At 05:23am on 09 Jul 2010, spandi13 wrote:

    Barbara99, I am saying I didn't feel unwelcome by my neighbours or my white colleagues and my post bears a testimony to that fact. But you want me to feel unwelcomed after having left Britain 2 months ago with your hypothesis. How irrational is that ?

    Otherwise feel free to continue your tirade but try not too be the crow in peacock feathers. I would be terribly sorry if it offends the crow or the peacock in you.

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  • 154. At 2:20pm on 09 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 155. At 4:07pm on 09 Jul 2010, General_Jack_Ripper wrote:

    joshua goldblum wrote:
    It doesn't do any good whatsoever for the Brit Citizens or the country. All it has done and will continue to do is erode all our traditions until we have no traditions left. I dont want diversity I want our traditions to be passed down from generation to generation.
    Stop ALL imigration and reverse the trend by sending all the immigrants home at their cost.



    The tradition in my area includes welcoming immigrants and absorbing them into the local community. First it was the Irish and Welsh, then came the Eastern European Jews and the Chinese and these days we have immigrant communities from many parts of the world living here.

    Our area was sparsely populated a few centuries ago and almost everyone who lives here now is the descendent of an immigrant, the only question is how far away (in time and distance) your ancestors came from.

    I look, sound and act as British as anyone else and I served in the military but one of my grandmothers is Indian so where am I going to be sent too ?

    Do I have to move to India ?
    Or maybe it should be Scotland as that's where one of my Grandfathers families came from. Or maybe Scandinavia as our family has roots their too.

    Or maybe even Africa as that's where all of our families came from originally.

    And if your user name is your real name then I would also suggest that you're likely to be the descendent of a Middle Eastern Jewish family, are we to send you back home too ?

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  • 156. At 7:22pm on 09 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    spandi13....
    you dont offend me...what offends me is someone who arrived into the UK yesterday and now feels they can tell me what i should and should be accepting...the greedy corporates plus the labour government invited the subcontinent IT workers etc not the general electorate.

    if you think i am a crow or a peacock...i reallly dont care...come and look at what has been spat out on some of the streets of london (chewed over and over again leaves with seed mixture that has a red pigmentation)

    perhaps i can redirect these spitters to your street and see if you dont change your mind. before you offer anything else be brave, honest and answer this atleast. or is it a case of whats good for the goose isnt good for the gander????

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  • 157. At 7:34pm on 09 Jul 2010, ligy wrote:

    The government is not facing the real problem that is umeployment, crimes, deteriorating economy. Immigration cap is only a cover up and they thinks that if no. of outsiders are reduced insiders will get more job opportunities; is it true? . Even if UK border is completely closed , public or private sector can not give jobs for all the currently unemployed population in the current economic situation. So what to do ?
    Let the immigrants come for a short term visa of few years and make sure that they leave the country by the expiry of visa. In India, the immigration enforcment officer will be knocking at your doorsteps on the very next day of your visa expiry date. But here, the highly developed country do not know how many visa overstayers are here! Undoubtedly they are working somewhere in this country (otherwise how do they survive) and living in a rented house provided by some landlord. If these people are ousted, government can reduce NHS expenses, reduce crime rates, and provide more job opportunities to the nationals.The real reason of putting control on immigration reflects the governemnts` inefficiency to oust the illegal immigrants. The best idea is to let the landlords and employers of illegals pay the cost of deporting them instead of imposing fine (Declare the illegals, pay for their deporation or otherwise be ready to face criminal prosecution). Such a policy would create a major impact to solve illegal immigration and clean the country`s demography.

    Nextly, the spouse of immigrants should not be allowed to work. This will reduce unemployment to a small level only ; but it has another social impact at the emigrant country - most tier 1 and 2 migrants are obviously married people and may think that they could earn more if their partner also comes here. In India, HSMP and job visa holders asks for more dowries (minimum 25 lakh INR if the guy is from a lower class family)in a marriage alliance as they allure that if the girl later come to UK as their wife, she could also work here. In the case of female visa holders, a few gentlemen who comes here as their spouse and earn a job visa or PR in due course, abandon them later and arrange a good alliance seeking huge dowry back in the home country with their UK visa status. If there is ban on dependants working here , the original visa holder will have to spend more money here itself to sustain his / her family.This will also reduce the amount of GBP drained to emigrant country.
    Government should take measures to encourage people to undertake sel-employment or small industries / agro based industries and should provide whole rigorous support for it even using international level co-operation and encouraging visa nationals to invest here .
    Make it compuslory that only those who visa nationals who own house anywhere in UK will be allowed settlement visa apart from other PR settlement requirements. Otherwise, they are also going to apply for council houses. If such a condition is imposed, those visa nationals who want to get PR settlement, will invest their earning here to buy a house. Thus will reduce the sending of the income to their home country.
    Regarding benefits (the most tempting factor for people to stick on here) , conduct a rigorous campaign to trace out fake beneficiaries and remove them for the violation of immigration rules.



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  • 158. At 9:41pm on 09 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @ligy...tell me what indian IT worker do you know who has come to the UK and then thinks about going back cos it is possible, no one is stopping them. forget it....we dont need any Indian IT workers...as there are plenty of british IT workers out of a job at the moment.

    i dont give two hoots about dowry systems...thats for india to sort out.

    fact is only where we have a genuine skills shortage and for the 100th time IT is not one of them we can look at bringing foreign workers in...
    see post 149 and many many above.

    plse address this.

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  • 159. At 10:38pm on 09 Jul 2010, aristotles23 wrote:

    If this ultimately means more and better training for (prospective)British employees,then,even if it is a difficult transition at first,the move in that direction would be more than welcome.This could be made to work for the indigenous population in a self-interested way,which would make a awful lot of sense in the current financial situation we have been forced into.There is no way to over-stress the importance of increasing our earning capabilities,as a nation and as individuals.Anything that stops the current trends towards a workhouse style state of impoverished and under-served,over-taxed employees,supporting a tiny upper tier of super-rich tax-avoiders,is very welcome indeed.Whether this actually happens is very doubtful and it wont happen without public pressure,exerted through the media,to make it an issue that just wont go away.

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  • 160. At 11:11pm on 09 Jul 2010, subcon wrote:

    Immigration is a issue which will make people mad and frenzy.People who have migrated to open and wealthy societies as their own is closed and poor. I hail from a really backward region in India, people from my part have go in thousands to cities to make a livelihood. Now here they put the locals out of competition as they migrate on their own and all alone leaving their families behind. And same is the case anywhere given a chance they will cheer to be in UK a world they have never seen before and will do what ever it takes not to go back. and the economic migrant of course will compete with the semi skilled workers and will render them jobless. I know a person from my place who did not even had completed his 12 years of education went to UK for MBA. and when he came back he had loads of money(of course not a huge amount if you convert in GBP), he stayed there for just 2 years and made enough to establish himself in India. He is now a inspiration for rest of the people like him who did not did well in studies and can earn money as student.. this was absolutely ridiculous. And they will always do it given a chance because there is absolutely no fear .. and they will not have any moral regards too as UK as a whole has always been seen as the ones who ruled us.. Hope students are now strictly admitted.. good for UK as a whole.

    I personally have been visited UK thrice on different occasions as IT professional and like to make more if needed until I save enough to lead a decent life in India. Its always have been a hard period for me whenever i am in UK. I have to work hard to prove better than others to be there, without costing more to my company. And it brings benefit to UK as I have seen that high end projects get closed in remarkable time. If it was to done in India that would have took years to complete. This is because at most of the times Indian IT professionals are highly motivated when they are in UK. So you will appreciate that its not always the skills which do wonder, but its the motivation to perform. I personally think that UK now cannot manage without the Indian IT professionals. because they are now used to it, and the guys have build their reputation.

    its also a personal view point of a individual immigrant to settle down in the UK. for sure it should be highly regulated. for me it will always to make enough and exit. and may be this is one of the reasons that I love UK. So you see in a way i m an economic migrant even with high skills.

    My wife is also an IT professional and she has a different view of things. She wants to settle in the UK because of its open society.

    So I will always see UK as a privileged place to come , see, work, enjoy and go back. but largely people get used to it and finally settle down.

    Its upto the UK government to make sure that people are discouraged from settling down. But govt as usual as everywhere has to prove itself justifiable and cannot do outright.

    More over during my visits I have seen that all the semi skilled jobs are done by foreign workers. which certainly means that you do not have enough people to do it. what must have started as a necessity has turned into a nuisance for UK.

    Its always difficult to draw a line and even if you draw it will blurr in time. So what UK needs to periodically review situations and balance out. make long term predictions and monitor immigration requirements.

    but it will take time before any of the changes will be visible to the people of UK.


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  • 161. At 09:42am on 10 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #160 Thank you for your contribution subcon, quite an eye opener, just what the average worker thinks here, the world and his wife want to come and take jobs and money from british workers.

    With 8 million possible workers unemployed, and with almost a million disabled children being brought up in poverty http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8805957.stm we don't need anymore immigrants, especially IT ones we have 40,000 british IT workers unemployed! But don't worry, the government, and the previous labour one, ignores the british public, and welcomes cheap labour from around the world, your next job here is safe. Only big business and the rich count here not the unemployed.

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  • 162. At 10:07am on 10 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @ actually its the british electorate that dont count in the UK...we have to put up with what every one else around the world tells us to put up with and ofcourse the labour government were on their side...how did we sell the UK so cheaply???

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  • 163. At 10:37am on 10 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #62 how did we sell the UK so cheaply???

    Yes barbara how did we! 60 years ago my mother in law was an immigrant, albeit from europe. She loved britain, england in particular, she loved the way of life here, our history, the monarchy, our culture, she was well educated, a degree in history, could speak english, and she had a great love of the british people.

    Now any immigrant that moves here, wants to carry on their own way of life and culture. They do not want to assimilate, they also want to live by their own values and not ours. Admittedly I think some of our ways leave a lot to be desired, especially our drinking and drug culture. But there is a saying, "it's enough to drive a man to drink", perhaps that's what successive governments have done, by marginalising the british people.

    Often people comment on the british empire and what we took from and how we hurt and killed people in our colonies. The trouble is it wasn't the the british people that did that, it was a few very rich and greedy men, much like bankers nowadays who did this. Then government and crown followed on and encouraged more. Now what does that remind you of, our labour government going to war with countries they had no concrete evidence to attack! And now we exploit foreign workers in their home country and here, but it's not jo bloggs that does that, again it's the rich and powerful men, government and big business. The ordinary man in the street has to put up with it all.

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  • 164. At 11:26am on 10 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @163 my sentiments exactly.

    my family are originally from the subcontinent BUT made huge efforts to assimilate which cant be said for the majority of immigrants.

    and correct alot of what goes on isnt down the the average UK voter...(ps alot of the immigrants now have a vote in our electoral system and know diddly squat about our politics or the different parties, manifestos etc- how can we give them a vote???)

    greedy bankers, greedy elite and a labour government ready to sell Great Britain to the lowest bidder.

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  • 165. At 11:42am on 10 Jul 2010, Gbind wrote:

    Things like the economy are going to get worse, before they get better. And this cap will be a further disincentive to skilled workforce, who REALLY don't have access to any benefits!! It is a global market, and if you can't compete, no use trying to restrict competition.

    This will also reduce foreign investment, as running a business here becomes more and more expensive. And it is this foreign money that has kept companies like Tetley, Corus, Landrover, Jaguar, Brunner Mond Group, INCAT internation etc etc running (which incidently still employ more British than foreign workers).

    It is only for the highly skilled jobs that UK needs non-eu workers, as it doesn't produce enough!! It's the same with the USA, but it prospers as it welcomes migrants (with a cap that is enforced in consultation with corporates), and recognises the contribution they have made in building the country. And parties like the BNP, eg. KKK, were outlawed decades ago.

    As for low skilled jobs, majority go to EU migrants, as lots of young people here will rather be on benefits, get drunk, and be a nuisance in the park (A uniquely British pastime).

    As for a Genocide, people should know the meaning of the word before they use it (A good dictionary should suffice). It's use here is so callous, it's laughable.

    It would be good to know the educational background and current jobs of people leaving comments to put their feeling in perspective.

    And please stay off the capital letters. Makes text harder to read. A simple way to do this would be to press the CAPS lock button on the keyboard.

    Thank God the people posting here are not representative of British public, which is usually welcoming, and appreciative of skilled, tax paying, law abiding migrants (otherwise BNP would have atleast retained some of the seats in the general election)



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  • 166. At 11:44am on 10 Jul 2010, elfrieda wrote:

    163 # well said you hit the nail firmly on the head , I knew many folk where i lived in Oldham who came from other countries who were glad to be here and abide by our rules assimilate with the British way of life ,it was hard for them but they quickly learned english , we had many friends from Europe and jamaica, but it certainly is not like that now , there are enclaves and ghettos , maybe not everyone wants to be seperate but im afraid most do . all this is doing is splitting the country up , and i cannot understand why the government cannot see this , we do need a referendum on immigration as well as the eu , but we wont get one like the last cleverly dodged referendum .

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  • 167. At 12:19pm on 10 Jul 2010, greade wrote:

    Why is it only non eu members it should also include eu ones as well, it is only brussels dictating our laws what about our own laws. There are far too many people in this country already there is no proper work and not enough housing so why do we continue down this suicide course. By all means allow skilled people to come in because those we do need. We should be like other countries stricter rules. It seems to me that countries not in the eu have a much better system than ours. Isn.t there some sort of ruling that some of these people have to go to the nearest country for asylum not all turn up on our doorstep.

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  • 168. At 1:39pm on 10 Jul 2010, subcon wrote:

    #161 Its not true that i come for cheaper cost in the UK, going by the UK tax rates its more than 40k GBP a year which is comparable to the avg IT salary in UK. I have worked with many fresh British IT guys but the general feeling is that there is not enough IT skilled people to fill the void. One of them told me that the universities at UK are fast losing reputation. He told me that earlier a degree from the best universities was enough to land a decent job, but now the quality of education has deteriorated. People who can afford the fees get admitted and since everyone has access to mortgage one just buy a degree in other words. He was also wary of the general trend of the students there who are fast loosing the determination to acquire skills through apprentice.
    Till the time you rebuild the workforce to really do the job. UK will have to rely on the foreign IT workforce.

    Problem for the UK is that it doesn't have the skilled workforce to do the work.. which will again raise the cost of projects if more foreign professionals are not brought in.. whether the IT professionals have to do this by living in UK or from their home country ..they will do it.. and the time is not far when these off-shoring companies will reduce their presence and deliver from offshore .. then you will treat the IT products just like the other manufactured products from China and India and not look at the larger picture... you are not wary about the jobs that went to India and china in manufacturing.. because they are not in UK to do it..and you dont see the faces of the people who do it.. targeting IT in islotion wont help..

    and the unskilled jobs UK people don't want to take up.. and that's how UK is becoming increasingly dependent on both skilled and unskilled.

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  • 169. At 2:19pm on 10 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:

    This blog shows British society's desperate thinking to throw all immigrants specially NON-EU's & more specifically all Asians, out of the Great Britain. Well, what does this society think of those 200 years of cruel British rule over Asia which left Asia in complete futile state & with so many extremely serious issues; poverty, slavery, illiteracy, corruption, division of Indian & Pakistan; a root cause of Kashmir issue which can trigger nuclear war any time between both countries & many more such social & political disgrace. Those 200 years were complete blockage for the development of Asian community. Why people are getting so frightened when Asians are working hard & trying to catch up with rest of the world. Why is British society not looking on their on mistakes? Young generation plays an important role in any communities's growth & development but look at the current British young generation. There is no passion at all to contribute in the country's further development. Seeing drunk & shouting young British boys & girls now is a common picture, not only on weekends but on weekdays too. How can you imagine their help when they themselves require helping hands. There is a very old saying that people start blaming others when they start failing.

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  • 170. At 2:59pm on 10 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    barbara posts 168 and 169 say it all really, just what you are always posting about!

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  • 171. At 3:48pm on 10 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @subcon & global_citizen,

    the indian IT worker has ONLY got a job in the UK because you are cheap to employ.

    dont delude yourself for a moment, the indian IT worker is no more skilled than the british IT worker - infact in many cases you just pass the mark, its just that the indian IT worker is willing to work for alot less. (see many the posts of british IT workers above)

    an immensely large proportion of the british electorate is absolutely appalled at the type and numbers of immigrants who have been let in thats why it ranked so highly during the election campaigns...

    with regards to the brits in the subcontinent....i know many who live there and say it was the best thing ever...the british buildings, judicial systems, education systems, colleges and universities, law courts, bridges, roads etc are still being used today (even the english language!).

    so when the british ruled india they actually did it a favour and taught so many things about particpating in a modern world and perhaps without the british ruling, the subcontinent may have remained in the dark ages (actually large parts of india are still like that and perhaps thats the bit the british werent able to rule).

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  • 172. At 5:37pm on 10 Jul 2010, subcon wrote:

    #171 you got me totally wrong.. i am still saying its the shortage.. the quality is still very high of the British IT workers.. i don't remember coming across any British IT worker who has not taught me something .. but they cost more because they are in short supply.. and there is where people like us fill in to balance the cost .. in IT too mostly the hard and boring part is done by the IT workers from sub continent.. still the most exciting ones are done by the same people there..nothing more to say .. i know you ll solve your problems yourself.. better I be outside..

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  • 173. At 5:41pm on 10 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 174. At 7:01pm on 10 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    who said IT is an industry where manpower is in short supply...who are you kidding????....i know alot of british IT workers who have had indian IT workers come into their offices, train them on the job and then the british IT worker finds himself out of a job.

    all down to the fact that the indian IT worker is prepared to accept a much lower wage.

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  • 175. At 7:14pm on 10 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:


    @barbara99

    In that case, you & people like you should blame all British employers who are hiring cheap workforce & 'compromising' with the 'quality & advanced' standards of British IT ;) well, it's an open & global market where people are free to sell & buy quality products on cheaper rates, I am sure you do when you walk-in Tesco or Asda. Think from an employers point of view - will you be ready to pay your employee's holidays in this global economic crisis? In such a competitive world, are you ready to receive a call from one of your employee every morning to inform you that he got severe headache due to heavy drinks last night? See, it's very easy to posting comments while you expect your employer or government to pay a whole lot of benefits to you.

    What to say on your comments on Brits in the subcontinent. Well, if subcontinent was in dark then what were British doing there for 200 years 'in dark'? I heard people either sleep or steal in dark. If Brits were so efficient to help us then I think 200 years were more then enough to change the fate of a nation where they ruled with hatred & brutality. I must congratulate your friends who are proud to tell you that Brits at least managed to develop some buildings & roads in India, Kudos for that. & you said, English language too. Well, I am glad to inform you that India's young generation are now being fluent in Spanish, French, German & many other overseas languages. Don't believe me? Visit any of outsourcing set up in New Delhi or Banglore during your next holidays & see how boys & girls are contributing their part in growing economy.

    As I said, people start blaming others when they start failing. It's not all about IT, people in this country have to start thinking of other loosing markets such as manufacturing or Industries before it's too late.

    I understand immigration control is required but not by putting a cap. There are other things which government can do like all overseas students must leave after completing their studies & they should not be given chance to work or settle here. Only prospective employee should be allowed here & not his/her whole family, wife or kids. There should be a time cap on employee's length of stay & should not be given a right to settle here as a citizen. Employers should be asked to get one Brit trained on required skills during that time frame. Government has to control EU immigration too. As Gordon Brown's bigoted woman rightly said, 'where are these Eastern European flocking from?' Apply these practices & I Guarantee you that immigration will reduce to 80%.

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  • 176. At 8:31pm on 10 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 177. At 8:48pm on 10 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    heres one that might be of interest...

    www.visabureau.com/uk/news/27-02-2009/indian-skilled-workers-challenging-new-uk-visa-rules.aspx

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  • 178. At 8:52pm on 10 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 179. At 10:00pm on 10 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 180. At 10:43pm on 10 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 181. At 11:10pm on 10 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:

    @barbara99

    yes, I heard about that Oz immigration cap & you know why bcoz their employers are now more interested to outsource their work to India rather then calling Indians to Australia because of increasing racist attacks on subcontinent community there.

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  • 182. At 11:16pm on 10 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:

    Before posting any further post, people whose parents or grand parents were immigrant should first pay thank to their luck as they managed to took birth here in this country & managed to get their British passport & born citizenship ready-made for them. Let me tell that all such people are not real British, so they should not need to pretend that they are really concerned with real issues of this country.

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  • 183. At 01:43am on 11 Jul 2010, paul wrote:

    can i ask why dont we tag immigrants after they have been bailed or to report to a police station ,so they dont run off into hiding or disapear to a diff location .surly we have to start getting a gripp of this as the uk taxs payers cant keep on taking passages any longer
    i dont mind any one comming into the uk as long as they.

    pay there own way surport them selfs
    work for a living
    also take on the british role to uk
    IF ANY IMMIGRANT IS FOUND TO HAVE BROKEN ANY LAW THEY SHOULD BE DEPORTED ASAP WITH FAIL ,MOST PRISNORS ARE MAINLY IMMIGRANTS.due to if they brake the law if just like having a free roof over there head and we then pay for the keep ,THEY DONT HAVE NOTHING TO LOOSE
    BRITISH LAW IS FAR TO SOFT ,WER JUST LIKE THE RUBBISH BIN OF EUROPE

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  • 184. At 2:45pm on 11 Jul 2010, jeannie wrote:

    Why is it that when british people want jobs, housing, benefits & health care kept for the British, (the people who have paid for these things for generations) we are called racists?

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  • 185. At 3:54pm on 11 Jul 2010, SnoddersB wrote:

    As has been stated in the artical the mas EU immigration will be uneffected. Time to leave the EU to implode on its own and keep the billions that it takes every year to pay of Labour's debts. We will then be able to have our own immigration laws and apply them without interference. We could even make it law that illegal imigrants are returned to France from whence they came in the first place.

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  • 186. At 6:54pm on 11 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    a few things i have been thinking about since reading some of the pro immigration blogs made obvioulsy by immigrants.
    all immigrants wishing to enter the UK should have to sit tests for the following and also prove:

    1)high standards of english
    2)patriotism to the UK
    3)not be given a UK passport for at least 10 years, not be allowed to use the NHS, not be allowed to use our education system (after all you hear time and time again from these same people how good the education system is in india!!!). fine charge them less tax. they earn so little their tax contribution wont be missed.
    4)but most important not be given a vote in our electoral system.....

    again.... those who entered the UK very recently plse stop trying to tell me what i should accept and not accept.

    i find it bullying, invasive, arrogant but most of all bad manners.




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  • 187. At 7:36pm on 11 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 188. At 10:29pm on 11 Jul 2010, global_citizen wrote:

    Before posting any further post, people whose parents or grand parents were immigrant (& got a chance to use British Schools & NHS & other benefits without of any much hassle) should first pay thank to their luck as they managed to took birth here in this country & managed to get their British passport & born citizenship ready-made for them. Let me tell that all such people are not real British, so they should not need to pretend that they are really concerned with real issues of this country.

    Such people should also avoid targeting on any particular community or they should have enough courage to face the reality & not just complaining about other's post to get them removed from the blog. If such people are so desperate to see Asians out of this country or world then I would recommend them to set up their homes on different planets as this is definitely not not going to happen.

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  • 189. At 11:37pm on 11 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #188 I find the post by global citizen racist. I'm surprised the mods keep letting it through, I've said much less and been deleted.

    Particularly this part should first pay thank to their luck as they managed to took birth here in this country & managed to get their British passport & born citizenship ready-made for them. Let me tell that all such people are not real British, so they should not need to pretend that they are really concerned with real issues of this country.

    If you are born and brought up here it doesn't matter what colour you are, you are British. Not English or Welsh or Scots, but most definitely british. I think you may be referring to barbara, which I think is very rude, she states she is a british asian, note, british first then asian. I am in agreement with her, there is nothing wrong with anyone's race, it's just that Britain is a very small country, we don't have room for millions of people from all over the world, that is my main grevance.

    As I have said before we have massive unemployment, millions in fact without work, why should we keep employing people from outside britain with such a situation. And please don't quote yet again, that we don't have any skilled workers, we have 100s of thousands, but they can't manage to live on very low wages, as for the British the cost of living is very high here, especially when it comes to housing. With the amount of immigration into this country we now need a new house built every 6 minutes, and that's just not going to happen, where do you suggest we all live in tents?

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  • 190. At 00:04am on 12 Jul 2010, BiiBoidshateu wrote:

    140. At 4:40pm on 07 Jul 2010, sagat4 wrote:

    Stop whinning you babies and celebrate the diversity immigration brings.
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Yes,let`s celebrate our racial group disappearing.

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  • 191. At 00:07am on 12 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @189 thankyou Ecolizzy.

    i am british first, my loyalty is the british queen and country. i cant help where i am born...my colour is irrelevant...its how i feel about the UK thats important.

    post 188 answer this do you think all those of Carribean origin or asian origin who are born in the UK but are in the british army, navy or RAF are not british but are willing to lay down their lives for the UK?????

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  • 192. At 00:28am on 12 Jul 2010, oldschool101 wrote:

    The moral values, tolerance and freedom of speech must make the British passport one of the most valuable commodities in the world. In a world where you could trade or sell your passport, ask yourself whom you would trade yours, or sell yours for. For those of you who think it's not valuable or did not really have to earn it. I ask you to place it on ebay. You would be suprised how many of the wealthy corrupt in the world would feverishly bid for it.

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  • 193. At 09:35am on 12 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #190 Yes,let`s celebrate our racial group disappearing.

    I'm afraid it's a sad fact that europeans will disappear Bii

    There are roughly a billion europeans in the world, and 6 billion others, so eventually we will disappear. Probably in the next 50-100 years, but I won't be around to see it, would be interesting to see what happens tho!

    Europeans do not have enough babies to keep their population stable, they have heeded the warning that the world is extradinarily overcrowded and there are not enough resources to go round, in particular water. But others do not heed this warning, and keep having babies, so the eventual loss of oil, thus food, also raw materials, will kill billions off.

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  • 194. At 12:27pm on 12 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @193

    yes it is a huge worry...as i dont want to see world domination by any unfair, intolerant, unjust nations solely driven by a need to establish an empire be it an economic one. it is wholly irresponsible with natural resources depleting to be large numbers of children. my italian friend says one should only replace themselves ie. have 2/3 kids at the most because of future food and water shortages!

    however i would take heed from the jewish community...they are making huge efforts to increase their numbers...they will certainly not allow their race to disapear and good for them.

    so why dont the rest of us europeans take a leaf out of their book?

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  • 195. At 08:35am on 13 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10607480.stm

    Can someone explain to me why we are practicing genocide on our own indigenous population.

    Why do we have to be 20% enthnic minority?

    Is Africa, India and China, going to follow our example?

    Why do we need to have a population of almost 80 million, it's crowded enough already, and we have a dire shortage of houses.

    Anyway I think they're wrong if there's at least 65 million now, it's either going to happen much quicker, or it'll be nearer 90 million.

    And I think they've also underestimated the birthrate, most immigrants have 5 - 6 children, not the one or two the indigenous have.

    Glad I'll be dead, now got to persuade the kids to move, and become immigrants themselves.

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  • 196. At 08:40am on 13 Jul 2010, elfrieda wrote:

    One of the main things that concern the indigenous population is that uncontrolled immigration is changing the face of our country beyond recognition , we are being forced to become something we are not , and not for the better in a lot of cases , many immigrants are not becoming part of our country they are trying to bring their values and way of life over here..... well we have our own values and way of life thanks , and we do not wish to have their religeous dogma forced on us. im sick of not being able to cough in my own country without offending someone newly arrived .

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  • 197. At 08:57am on 13 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    #196 Sylvia I think someone told Blair and Brown we were the new USA, and weren't a specific race, but an immigrant community. I keep thinking about what happened to the indigenous people of the americas, when us and the spanish etc rolled in. Genocide wasn't it? We either killed them because they attacked us, or with the bacterias and viruses we brought with us from europe.

    I think the British, and in particular the english race are fast disappearing, the report says we are 92% indigenous, I don't believe that for one minute, especially in the south east of england. You can't move for houses and cars these days, whatever you do, don't move here. Average rainfall 24"/60cm a year, lower than parts of Africa, but still they bung the people down here!

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  • 198. At 11:50am on 13 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @197 its so scary that countries like india, china, brazil are pressing on at full speed without a care for the earth.

    the west hasnt starved these countries or taken anything from them but sadly the same cant be said for the scrupples of any of the above countries.

    if you think things are bad now...i fear a time in the future will be a dog eat dog world.

    so surely thats enough reason to protect british borders, british values and its indigenious population?

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  • 199. At 1:30pm on 13 Jul 2010, BP100 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 200. At 2:33pm on 13 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    British people desperate for work queing for 193 jobs.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1294282/Primark-receives-staggering-4-000-job-applications-advertising-new-store-staff.html

    And probably the same amount of people will be let into Britain this week.

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  • 201. At 3:20pm on 13 Jul 2010, Shafiqul Islam Jibon wrote:

    Immigration is a powerful goods. It has demand and supply. So it's a matter of time. Once British people was highly depended on Immigrants to survive their lives. Now they are feeling strong themselves enough. But they are not that at all which has been proved in last economic recession. Government admitted, thousands of immigrants even EU citizens all ready left the UK for job crisis. So the future British Economy will judge if they really need immigrants or not. Just need to wait and see for the future. The Asia is going to lead the future world economy when some old super power going to sleep. Then may be the Asian immigrants will realize and lose interest to move in such branded countries to live when they are getting injustice and unfair treatments from them. The people are realizing what is going on into the human rights, discrimination and injustice in present Immigration rules of the UK. It is becoming clear day by day their historical characters in colonial periods. The Non-EU people should not try to enter the UK when they are violating their human rights and insulting by the Border Agencies. They should work for their own country. They should stand for themselves.

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  • 202. At 3:24pm on 13 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @199

    this is typical of an indian subcontinent IT worker...precisely my point as to why immigration tests should be done on personality as well as intelligence.

    bp100 you seem only concerned about immigration as upto now you havent posted any other comments on any other subject - your only requirement is to get into the UK

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  • 203. At 3:44pm on 13 Jul 2010, BP100 wrote:

    Strange!comments removed after posted,may be someone complaint against bitter truth...

    Goodluck to all and continue debating but the bottom line is
    "nothing going to change,History Repeats Itself"

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  • 204. At 5:21pm on 13 Jul 2010, BP100 wrote:

    @ 202

    Yes this is from typical Indian subcontinent,
    I accept immigration cap is required probably you haven’t read my very first comment (long enough).
    Also I had very few comments on this blog because I feel people are unnecessary debating without looking at the root cause of this problem I had written the root cause in my next post which is general for everyone not particular to you.

    Yes at one stage my requirement was to enter UK but I am a successful person, paying taxes, planning to buy house on mortgage ((depending on ever changing UK immigration laws) by reinvesting into this economy and not sending money to home country, trying to blend into British culture which may be difficult for me but definitely not for my kids.
    I migrated for better living and most people will agree with me if migrating for better life is crime then I would like to do this on my every birth. I heard many British people like to settle in countries like Australia and Spain so does that mean they are taking Australians and Spanish people’s job….

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  • 205. At 5:23pm on 13 Jul 2010, BP100 wrote:

    @ To everyone

    Let me tell you the root cause,
    Government is just playing a trick to pleased UK residents with immigration cap but the back door is open for visas..

    Why the government, neither Labour nor conservative stopping the visas completely.
    Well because of the income it generates. In Q1 of 2010 approximately 54000 student visas were granted as against 6000 (approx) skilled visa which is tip of ice berg. Say for e.g. out of this 54000 half of them return to their country but still there are 27000 thinking to get settled…If government really wants to do something for this country then its something to do with student visa but I know it will never happen easily because on an average each student brigs £6000 course fee…bear in mind 54000 is just in 1 quarter.

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  • 206. At 09:41am on 14 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @bp100

    i understand your plight and desperate requirement to leave a far worse place to come to a country as magnficent as the UK but you base this on your need to escape to a better life. well in that case everyone tom dick and harry from the entire world has just as much right as you?

    but your forget the UK is tiny island in comparison to the lands which you came from. isnt it better you stick around in your lands of origin, assist in making that country a better place for its indigineious population after all india not only has a nuclear programme but also a space programmme...its in the g20. why cant it sort things out so its inhabitants dont need to leave.

    ps the root cause is that there are loops holes being exploited by the unscrupulous but i hear that something is to be done about dodgy student visas too.

    ps which student that arrives from outside the uk ever leaves...?

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  • 207. At 6:19pm on 19 Jul 2010, paul wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 208. At 9:35pm on 25 Jul 2010, James wrote:

    British Nationality Act 1981 section 4C discrimination against children born abroad to British mothers

    Children born abroad to British mothers did not automatically acquire their mother’s British nationality until 1983. The government only recognised this injustice in February 1979, promising to legislate to abolish it but in the meantime giving British-born women the right to register their minor children born abroad as British Citizens. Children who are older ie born before 1961 have the right of abode if born in a commonwealth country and many live in the UK. Some refused the path of naturalisation out of protest that they were required to take a "life in the UK test" and "test of English" as its a bit rideculous to suppose children of English speaking mothers would be raised speaking some other foreign language other then English. Most of these persons who live in the UK are tax payers and are very integrated in British society through blood and family ties not only through their mothers but also established by themselves. Their children and indeed grand children are all British.

    In the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 limited steps were taken to address this, but these provide a means to remedy the situation by registration under what is now s.4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 only for those born on or after 7 February 1961. As a result, sibling groups may be divided. In 2006, a good character test was introduced for many categories of registration, including for children over 10 (see section 58 of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, amending the British Nationality Act 1981). The original proposal was that all children, including babies under 12 months old, should be subject to the good character test. The Baroness Ashton of Upholland, who took the Bill through the House of Lords, took heed of the representations of ILPA and others. It was her own proposal that found its way into the law – that children only be subject to the good character test above the age at which they have criminal responsibility in UK law, 10 years old. You will be aware that there has been much criticism of the UK’s age of criminal responsibility for children as too low. Further concerns are caused by its having been imported into nationality law, where it breaks down the distinction between registration by discretion and registration by entitlement.It thus imposes a very harsh sanction, that of inability to become British where otherwise one would have had the right to do so, on those to whom the UK has special obligations and to children. The good character test should not apply in cases where, prior to 2006, people registered by entitlement.

    One thing is clear : registration involving a good character test and/or fees, and/or bureaucratic hurdles is not registration by entitlement. In addition high fees have been introduced to discourage registration. These high fees are designed to put off from applying for registration. Registration by entitlement, giving rise to a choate right to nationality, not an inchoate right that depends upon negotiating a good character test, paying fees, and satisfying complex bureaucratic procedures, is the appropriate route those deprived of their rights as nationals without their consent and fundamental to recognising nationality as a matter separate from immigration status. Consideration could usefully be given to creating a single status for British nationals who do not wish to register as British citizens, so that they can continue to enjoy the limited rights (of consular protection) to which their historic connection with the UK has entitled them.

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  • 209. At 11:24pm on 26 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    barbara99 I thought this might interest you, as you are well informed on IT workers here.

    http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/07/post-1.html

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  • 210. At 10:30pm on 27 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    @209....thankyou for that. my husband who has worked for many of the UKs major firms for almost 20 years agrees....its frightening.

    those statistics make you want to cry....

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  • 211. At 06:28am on 28 Jul 2010, PLANETLONDON wrote:

    Churchill used to say : The further back into history that you look, the further of the future you can see.

    The debate is clearly not about Migration.
    It is about seggregation and zoning.
    Although the creation of Australia, Amercia, and Canada as extensions of the English Language over 300 years was principally financed from cash flows from India (undivided), Migration Policies were selective to ensure the color was right.
    The UK surrender to the EU must be seen in the same light.
    The first thing impoverished E Europeans wanted was the right to migrate to wherever they could improve their lot - nothing wrong with this most fundamental of human needs.
    So, EU created a Migration Policy - to benefit EU citizens.
    And the UK has signed on the dotted line.
    Why Migration rights have been denied on the basis of color - principally India - when the English speaking World was incubated in the 19th Century principally from cash flows from there, is the question.
    The Commonwealth citizens should have the same Migration rights that EU has granted to E Europeans.
    All that Cameron & Clegg have done is formalised the line of thought that created dominions based on color.
    They have done this as they can get away with it.
    With the EU, they will not get away.
    In fact, the Irish and German and Scandinavians made sure that America belonged as much to their migrants as to the Bristish migrants.
    Might has always been right - until God intervenes to set it right.
    It is never over until He says it is over.
    Time will tell whether consigning India to the colonial dustheap of history is the recipe for UK's greatness.
    The color of choice - in the EU - were not responsible for UK's greatness in thepast or in the future.

    Churchill must be smiling ... lessons of history have a habit.

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  • 212. At 4:27pm on 28 Jul 2010, Peter wrote:

    I was hospitalised at the time so I remember the year positively - 1983. The media was putting out a warning that in terms of checking on immigration controls, you had to take serious awareness of birth-rates. They gave average birth-rates of a caucasian couple to be averaged at 1.2, but an Asian couple at 7! A statement like this has been missing from 99.9% of everything I've seen and heard about UK immigration over the last 20 years - why? If one takes a serious regard for that original statement, it can suggest a way in which a country can eventually
    come to be overtaken by two very different forms of weapon.

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  • 213. At 08:32am on 29 Jul 2010, ecolizzy wrote:

    Why as one of the smallest EU countries do we have the larest population increase?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298201/Immigration-sees-UKs-population-growth-outstrip-rest-Europe.html

    So we end up with a situation like this

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298497/Nearly-100-000-new-homes-built-year-immigrants.html

    I wonder if any of our past or current government had/have any idea of what the maximum population of Britain should be?! Doesn't matter what the economy is doing if we are all killing each like rats in a barrel : (

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  • 214. At 3:08pm on 29 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    forget about the special relationship with the US ...its the one that our PM is trying to forge with the subcontinent which is far more alarming.

    the indian businesses will say yes, sure we will do business with the UK but our workers have to be able to come freely (by the way a UK passport is required too)......why should another country have the right to dictate our immigration policy...

    i am sorry to raise this but Mr Cable was once married to a kenyan lady of indian origin (now sadly deceased) and so his children are of mixed race....so he will never ever be against immigration from india.

    the subcontinenet businesses will romanticise british mps but all they can offer us at the end of the day is cheap labour.
    they wont be buying british goods, british foods etc. its just too expensive for the average indian worker to pay for.

    why doesnt the indian pm agree to british students being allowed to work along side indian workers in the subcontinent. or is that door only open one way????

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  • 215. At 7:09pm on 29 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    infact...lib dem leader Nick Clegg married to a spanish lady (EU) and deputy lib dem leader Vince Cable was married to an indian-kenyan lady (noneu) ...

    hmmm...all makes sense now. no wonder the Lib Dems are all for the open doors immigration policy to the UK. They would get into trouble with their european and indian relatives if they opposed immigration.

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  • 216. At 9:30pm on 29 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    all i said was the fact that lib dem leader and deputy lib dem leader both have wives from outside of the UK so its not a rocket science if they wish to allow an open doors immigration policy as labour did????

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  • 217. At 1:40pm on 30 Jul 2010, barbara99 wrote:

    correction to 216:
    currently have wives or have had wives outside of the UK.

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  • 218. At 03:19am on 06 Aug 2010, James wrote:

    Immigration rules brought in by Labour and secondary legislations have caused havoc along with the forced measures to enforce the take up of Identity cards.
    Persons who are the children of British citizen who were born before 1961 have a statutory right called the right of abode. Regulations enacted in 2008 suddenly made the evidence to prove such rights in a expired passport cease to exist on the basis that they did not want such persons to possess more then one form of id. 2 days ago the UKBA made an amendment where by immigrants wo have ILR can use expired passports but not those who are the children of British citizens who have the right of abode a status supposedly not subject to immigration control and permissions. The UKBA have also been using Section 15 of the 2006 act to unlawfully suggest that employers would incur civil penalties if they employed those who have the right of abode. Now they have allowed immigrants who have ILR to have more rights then those who are patrials and possess the right of abode. Where is the justice in this ?

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  • 219. At 11:36pm on 07 Aug 2010, James wrote:

    The UKBA is blatantly hindering the rights of such person by using the expiry of their travel document to control such persons right to work.

    Section 15 of the 2006 explanatory notes state the following:-

    “EMPLOYMENT
    The provisions:
    • create a power for the Secretary of State to apply a civil penalty, determined by a
    Code of Practice, to an employer of an adult subject to immigration control who
    has not been granted leave to enter or remain, whose leave is invalid, has ceased
    to have effect (whether by reason of curtailment, revocation, cancellation,
    passage of time or otherwise) or whose conditions of entry or stay prevent them
    from undertaking the employment.”

    The 2006 Regulation Section 8 states
    8. A certificate of entitlement shall cease to have effect on the expiry of the passport or travel document to which it is affixed.

    The Certificate of Entitlement states the following on it
    “Valid for presentation at a United Kingdom port within the validity of the passport”

    A person who has the right of abode does not lose this right just because their passport expires. The certificate is not a work permit and has nothing that says to that effect and yet contrary to the 1971 primary legislation the UKBA have applied both direct and indirect control over a persons right to work.

    “All those who are in this Act expressed to have the General
    right of abode in the United Kingdom shall be free to live in, principles.
    and to come and go into and from, the United Kingdom without
    let or hindrance except such as may be required under and in
    accordance with this Act to enable their right to be established
    or as may be otherwise lawfully imposed on any person.”


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  • 220. At 09:00am on 08 Aug 2010, spandi13 wrote:

    Barbara99,

    I suppose you are an asian crusading for the alleged non-inclusion of individuals from the country of your roots let alone other countries.

    All the rationale that you parrot now might have been told to your earlier generation by the ethnic non-educated delinquent locals when your grandparents/parents were trying to settle in. However your grandparents/parents resisted that ideology and didn't return in the same boat that they came in, rather chose to contribute to the society since they thought they could contribute in their own unique way.

    I agree, there cannot be a better test of assimilation, now you have begun to not only speak a foreign language but also exhibit the same extent of xenophobia that untravelled locals exhibit. I suppose you'd now say the untravelled locals didn't travel since they didn't have a proper job or money since the immigrants came and took away their job. But that's is what separates these individuals from the immigrants - the desire to prosper on their own and not depend on state and society to earn their entitlement. Do you see the subtle but the fundamental difference ???? It shouldn't come as a surprise to you therefore that the richest Briton is an Indian- LN Mittal richer than the Queen. I am not inferring anything other than for the cause of opportunity and excellence. It was the same opportunity presented to everyone but it was the best person who made the most of this opportunity.

    As Pink Floyd sang don't just be another brick in the wall. Society evolves through a constant infusion of talent otherwise it stagnates. That is probably the difference between a village and a town or perhaps successful institutions/businesses/towns/countries.

    As far the question of you sending spitters to my street, are you saying you would be happy to have instead someone who pukes and relieves himself/herself in your streets.

    I think the most important thing is not picking on people and stereotyping people. This is the root cause of all hate crimes across the world. It may benefit some people some time but not all the time. Given BNP's way it wants Britain to be ruled by Christian ideologies ultimately. Therefore I hope you are a Christian or else maybe you may have to again take an unnecessary test of assimilation to pass the test of your Britishness - to become a Christian convert.

    My parting thought - Anybody is as good as you are if not better. We could all shine for each other.


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  • 221. At 10:51am on 09 Aug 2010, spandi13 wrote:

    Comment for 215 post :

    I think there is an overbearing amount of cynicism in your post.

    The other way to look at it is the Spanish lady and Indo-Kenyan lady may have passed the highest test of assimilation by marrying a Brit and integrating into the mainstream of the society.

    Barbara99, Honestly you need to tell me how many British-Asians would think of doing that? When it comes to marriage they become incredibly racist, since they wouldn't look any beyond their own skin colour. Then your over-zealous phrase of British-Asian takes an about turn - it conveniently mutates to become an Asian-British. I know so many British Asians who wouldn't even think of marrying let alone dating an ethnic individual of Anglo-Saxon origins.


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  • 222. At 11:51am on 10 Aug 2010, Sam_780 wrote:

    UK is making no charity by employing Tier1/ ICT workers. With NON-EU migration, both employers (in UK) and Non EU migrants are benefited.

    Many individuals have expressed concerns about Non- EU immigration. IF an individual is skilled, hardworking and flexible- why should an UK employer hire NON-EU or EU individuals?
    Simply complaining that Non- EU is taking away jobs is thoughtless. No one is taking away anything / no employers are making charity- Only if the employers find the right aptitude and skills will they hire EU, non- EU / indigenous individuals.

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  • 223. At 7:02pm on 26 Nov 2010, tam_john wrote:

    An illegal immigrant can apply for ILR after 14 years???? Where is the sense in that? How is it possible that the UK government can say "do not come here illegally...but if you do and you stay long enough - we'll give you a passport"??? I never knew that but just recently read it...wow...

    On the topic at hand though...The latest immigration upheavals and changes have really made me so sad :( I'm a 25 year old mixed-race South African female and a qualified social worker. In 2007/2008 I came to the UK on a working-holiday visa and I LOVED everything about London and the British. I fell in love with everything about the country and its culture. I worked as a social worker and was part of a profession that desperately needs more qualified workers but the university output and the need in the field are just not correlating. Social work is a shortage occupation in the UK and locum social workers are needed because the gaps in child protection and the provision of services to the elderly and vulnerable are wide. I worked hard and enjoyed my challenging job and wonderful co-workers from Britain and all over the world. I contributed ALOT of tax, without ever accessing NHS or any other public services. I was (and still am) single and thus had no family members in tow. I am currently a top-student at the University of Cape Town - doing my Masters Degree in Clinical Social Work. Attaining my Masters Degree and coming back to London on a Tier 1 visa, with my new skills and experience was always my ambition. I don't know that I would want to settle down in London forever but when I left in 2008, I knew I was nowhere near done with this beautiful city and country. I have so much more to give and having been in the country for only a year and a half because I did not overstay my visa - I am very very sad that I now may not be able to make it back. I have been working towards my Masters Degree for the purpose of meeting the necessary criteria...and I still cannot believe that just like that, the Tier 1 option is gone. I think the government could have implemented stricter controls on this visa in so many different ways - capping it to 1000 and making it ONLY for "exceptional talent" aka scientists and musicians (??)...will be such a waste of opportunity for the real legitimate individuals who want to contribute to the UK and miss the experience of being able to be there.

    If there are concerns that 1/3 of Tier 1 visa holders end up in Tescos or restaurants as waiters, then restrict the field on their visa to their field of specialty for which they applied for the visa in the first place. For me that would be social work. It will soon be evidenced how many individuals abuse the Tier 1 as a quick ticket into the UK and then abandon their supposed "specialities" not long after, because they are afforded this option. If I come to the UK on the basis that I am highly skilled in social work then what on earth would I be applying to Tescos for and why would Tescos be hiring me? This is one way the government could curb this kind of fraud and abuse of the system. Stipulate employment limitations on the visas...employers could then be fined for hiring employees on Tier 1 visas if the employment is outside of the "highly skilled" field for which the visa was applied. Employees could then be deported for working outside of the field stipulated on their visa. They do this for the Tier 2 visas - why not start with the Tier 1 visas as opposed to scrapping the whole Tier? Tier 1 visas are sought after because they allow more movement than Tier 2. Indeed for me, I am attracted to the fact that I won't need to seek sponsor after sponsor if I wanted to change jobs within my field. But the Tier 1 was abused because no job offer was needed at all and migrants could therefore come into the UK and work where ever they please, or not work at all for SOME! This practice could have been tackled by placing limits on the field of employment and maybe even a time-crunch, whereby Tier 1 holders who are not employed within their field within 3 months of coming to the UK are sent home and employers who receive applications for employment after this deadline are obligated to report these migrants. I mean at the end of the day - why would you not find a job within 3 months if you are "highly skilled and sought after", right? The Tier 2 system is going to be burdened following the scrapping of the Tier 1 General Migrant visa. Social work as a profession in the UK is going to suffer more as a result of the new immigration laws (along with other genuinely needed professions - of which IT is NOT one!).

    Another option is to once again make the Masters degree the minimum education requirement. Those who genuinely want to come to the UK for legitimate work and contributory purposes will WORK towards attaining this educational goal. I certainly am. Although now it won't mean anything in terms of the new UK immigration laws. There are other ways...I just feel so sad that alot of people like myself will be completely side-lined from our dreams and goals of coming to or coming back to the UK on legitimate grounds and that the contributions we could make will no longer be made...all because of individuals who abuse the system and give the rest of us non - EU's a bad name :(

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  • 224. At 11:40am on 02 Jun 2011, U14890913 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 225. At 11:46am on 02 Jun 2011, U14890913 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

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