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Obama still filling out his team

Justin Webb | 20:30 UK time, Friday, 19 June 2009

I attended the formal swearing in of Philip Gordon, the new Undersecretary of State for Europe today.

Lovely ceremony, proud family, good speeches. And above all a reminder that this administration is not yet fully staffed!

Bizarre but true: Phil (who is a friend so I will say nothing about his competence and politics) is by no means the last aboard. Others still languish un-confirmed and unable to begin their public service.

And yet, in other respects, the administration is getting old - with some real falling out now among constituencies upset by the compromises made in government and worried that Obama is going the same way on their issues that Kennedy did on civil rights.

I suspect the Obama view is that there is a long, long way to go. He faces no imminent election - and might gain politically if his Democratic friends in Congress get singed a little in 2010 - so he presses on at his pace and with his priorities.

And always the knowledge that the backing he received from the middle ground of politics is fragile and needs to be worked on.

Comments

  • 1. At 9:50pm on 19 Jun 2009, lordBeddGelert wrote:

    But why is this a surprise to anyone ? All who have read his book 'The Audacity of Hope' will surely have realised that 'Triangulation' is his middle name ?

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  • 2. At 9:56pm on 19 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    There were other posts filled today, too. Some of them possibly more important for the future of the US economy.

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  • 3. At 9:59pm on 19 Jun 2009, MagicKirin wrote:

    Instead of talking about your firend why have you not mentioned the fired Inspector General?

    Fired for investigating a campaign supporter.

    I remember the howls from the left when Bush fired certain AG's

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  • 4. At 10:01pm on 19 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Justin,
    Deja-vu is boring.
    Perhaps you feel that core posters have forgotten the state of affairs that existed end November - beginning December 2008. Sanitising the blog log does not make bad memories go away. Usually a contributor with a leaning towards friendliness and an attempt at humour, I notice my own log has been sanitised as well, all forceful counter-comment that was required removed. In whose eyes was it regarded as unsuitable?
    Today we are being forced to view the fiasco all over again.
    One cannot but feel that there is a biased orchestrated attack occurring here. Long departed contributors suddenly emerging from the past to return, and regular posters being removed. We are deteriorating into a you, them and us state instead of the normal appreciated bickering family, interested in the ideas originating from both sides of the pond.
    Maybe you have your eyes directed towards the countdown on the clock, eagerly awaiting the signal to up sticks and return to the UK. I am disappointed that you may be leaving the following editor to pick up the pieces of what little may remain.
    Whilst I can respect the necessity to remove unsavoury comment posted or that which may infringe copyright laws, I believe I am one of many who are querying the moderating standards.
    I would be grateful if your messages- "This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain" and the other "This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules" could contain more specific information to explain its refusal. eg copyright, posters referral, moderators lack of humour, etc etc The extended halts awaiting the pre-moderation of any posting at certain times is bad enough, but this latest happening is the last straw.
    Modern and olde worlde English is a wonderful language that is developing daily through many different sources of input. I have been grateful to re-invigorate my own attempts at reading and writing it after 30+ years of letting it slip for other languages.
    I would hope that you will add your own remarks concerning your own thoughts on the subject on the following thread.
    Respectfully, watermanaquarius.
    ps Usual suspects are not required to reply to this request which is aimed at Justin.
    Goodnight.

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  • 5. At 10:11pm on 19 Jun 2009, ghostofsichuan wrote:

    The on-going problem for all Presidents has been overseas posts. The State Department has spent everyday since its creation messing up the world to insure their jobs. People sometimes wonder about these appointments but the evolution of relations with other countries is now mostly "backdoor." The post that takes buisness men out when visiting or helping some college kid caught doing something illegal or attending 19th centruy ceremonies still prevails. The only problem is that they are still able to create problems...mainly in the spy to spy stuff but also with policy mis-steps. I would think that some consideration and time should be spent on the appointment of Ambassador to Burma. We have many problems there and they are another Chinese apendage, but probably more thought will go into selecting the Ambassador to Guatemala. Seems like a system that has long outlived its usefulness but if you get a good post you can have a really good time.

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  • 6. At 10:13pm on 19 Jun 2009, faeyth wrote:

    Every minority had to pursue civil rights on a state level before taking it to the federal level.The gay community isn't very successful.I think most should try for civil unions before fighting for marriages they're the same except Churches don't want to be sued for not providing marriages for Gay couples.That's why religious people I know don't vote for it.They are usually trying to protect their churches from lawsuits based on their religious beliefs.I am not unsympathetic toward the gay community however we have more important issues right now.And as a middle class citizen I want Obama to address the Economy,Workers rights,Health care,Education,Immigration.etc..Issues should be dealt with by the amount of voters it effects that is Democracy,majority rules.

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  • 7. At 10:25pm on 19 Jun 2009, saintDominick wrote:

    I am glad he is taking his time with the second-tier appointments after the problems he ran into early on in his presidency. Quite frankly, this is a non-issue for most Americans and, if anything, President Obama deserves praise for his pragmatism and for the appointment of several highly qualified Republicans to key positions in his administration.

    The area where President Obama, and Democrats in general, are going to be vulnerable next year and in 2012 involve the decision to bail out GM and Chrysler when it was obvious that neither company had a chance to recover without bankruptcy re-structuring, and there is a good chance he may end up in hot water explaining how he plans to pay for the healthcare reform he is proposing at a time when most Americans are having trouble paying their bills.

    In spite of what you hear from some people on this blog, most Americans are not too concerned about foreign policy and give the President high marks for his handling of foreign policy. Most of us support his composure and restraint on the Iran issue. no sense taking sides when both options (Ahmadinejad/Mousavi) may be equally difficult for us. That will change, however, if the protesters hit the streets this weekend after the Supreme Leader warned them of a crackdown if they do. Should they demonstrate tomorrow, it will be a clear signal that the reformists are pursuing more than just the election of Mr. Mousavi, and our President will have no choice but to express moral support for those seeking freedom and the ability to speak out and choose.

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  • 8. At 10:27pm on 19 Jun 2009, frayedcat wrote:

    Well I think being angry and gay at the same time is quite difficult. Otherwise I am glad to see that politics are getting a little boring and dry again because I believe that's a sign of peace and stability. Not sure which comes first...do boring politics bring peace and stability, or do peace and stability make politics boring?

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  • 9. At 10:40pm on 19 Jun 2009, saintDominick wrote:

    Ref 8, Frayed

    "...boring politics bring peace and stability, or do peace and stability make politics boring?"

    The topic being discussed is, indeed, boring but North Korea's announcement that they plan to launch a missile in the direction of Hawaii on the 4th of July is far from boring. If they do, they better have someone more capable than Admiral Yamamoto because there will not be much left of North Korea after that.

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  • 10. At 10:53pm on 19 Jun 2009, frayedcat wrote:

    #9 "announcement" is it now???? better double check your sources. #3 - If you knew Walpin in his NYC days you wouldn't be in the least surprised at his being fired from an inspector general plum job granted him by Bush...."fair and impartial" - NOT. Nasty piece of work.

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  • 11. At 10:54pm on 19 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    2 Black 2 Strong
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hBMTs4CRYk

    Totally hardcore
    so get out of town clown
    harlem my pob
    uptown is in the house

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  • 12. At 10:56pm on 19 Jun 2009, frayedcat wrote:

    Anyway, point being peace and stability don't generate as much one-sided wealth and power as a state of war and fear, big brother, so whomever's 'announcing' their fear of a missile launch from North Korea is just as likely to be over there trying to drum up a launch.

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  • 13. At 11:02pm on 19 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Am I Black Enough For You?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15KfOxYbkWU

    Forgiven
    For being belligerent
    cantankerous never dangerous
    or will I be condemned
    for the words I spoken
    as a pre-conceived notion

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yxJyZ3Z_wE

    And now with the following collection of ghoulish sounds
    You can make your own sound terrifying and terrible Uh-huh-ha-ha! {*laughing*}
    Surprise! Heh-ha-heh-ha-ha-ha Did ya miss me? I sure missed you!
    I told ya we're gonna be friends to the end and now it's time to play

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  • 14. At 11:19pm on 19 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Schooly D... looking at my gucci it's about that time

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQc4A-XBzBY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF7HceozcmI

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  • 15. At 11:42pm on 19 Jun 2009, vagueofgodalming wrote:

    That last link is really frightening.

    On the deficit, Krugman says it all.

    On Gitmo, what happened to America? They had a constitution, once.

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  • 16. At 00:27am on 20 Jun 2009, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #10

    Walprin was canned because he investigated Sacramento Mayor Kevin Johnson. Walprin is more lucid than Joe Biden.

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  • 17. At 01:05am on 20 Jun 2009, frayedcat wrote:

    #16 One of my theories about why Walpin was canned is because, once upon a time, he used his crafty skills as a white collar criminal defense attorney to rig an investigation of a charitable org for political reasons, and, when "peppered with questions" about it (which he found insulting) they nailed him on some whoppers and he couldn't substantiate his findings. Letting him off lightly, they canned him for being wobbly, rather than for fraud. But, not realizing he had finally met more than his match, he cleverly made so much noise that he instigated an investigation, which revealed his improper acts, and he sunk himself and some of his mates into ignominy.

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  • 18. At 01:13am on 20 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #6. faeyth:"The gay community isn't very successful. I think most should try for civil unions before fighting for marriages they're the same"

    No-one tries to explain the difference between the two, except that the latter has some Federal tax benefits. Other than that, why get married? A partnership between consenting adults does not in itself require a certificate or licence. I can't understand why anyone, regardless of sexuality, would wish to "marry" unless it's for the social aspect. Considering that couples swear "'til death us do part" and how many of those marriages end in divorce, that really isn't a good advertisement for the institution.

    "Churches don't want to be sued for not providing marriages for Gay couples."

    There are churches which are happy to provide the service and the others - Catholic, Southern Baptist, Latter Day Saints for example, could be excused on the basis of faith. The problem is that those three, and others, want to impose their views on the rest. The United States is supposed to be a secular nation with no established church, and yet various Christian denominations endeavour to remake it as a theocracy.

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  • 19. At 01:25am on 20 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Who me
    I'm a g that like to scrap-a-lot
    Down with Rap-A-Lot
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUhu5BUOKg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjKAbUL-KtM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRMzSL9fqS8

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  • 20. At 01:51am on 20 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Yes Yes Y'all
    -> Geto Boys
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYnJLSAqqY

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  • 21. At 02:53am on 20 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    15, vague, take a look at this link before you decide.

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  • 22. At 03:40am on 20 Jun 2009, OldSouth wrote:

    The sense of unease about President Obama's intentions and actions is growing in all quarters. The last time I tried to suggest this, someone accused me of wearing white sheets.

    Today's post from Mr. Webb should give some reason for reconsideration of Mr. Obama.

    And...

    Next week, the Treasury will auction $135 billion in T-bills of differing maturities.

    $135 billion. One week.

    The federal deficit is projected to run 1.2 trillion, and the spending just continues unabated, and undebated.

    The Fed is printing money, and acts as if it accountable to no one.

    An Inspector General is fired, in violation of black-letter law, for bringing the ethical problems of an Obama supporter to light.

    The Chrysler and GM bankruptcies are run through in violation of both the Constitution and the law, bankrupting who knows how many family dealership businesses in the process. The taxpayers of Indiana are stuck making the pension fund good after the haircut administered by the Obama 'restructuring'.

    And, the Left is now feeling the lash, as Obama knows that to (at this moment) throw the weight of the Executive Branch behind the cause of homosexual marriage would create a firestorm in the heartland.

    It's something new every week.

    He will run out of other people's money to spend, and he is rapidly running through the good will of all those ardent supporters who so unselfishly worked for him.

    Tick, Tock. November 2010 is one day closer.

    And we,(unlike some folks we know), hold elections on days certain.

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  • 23. At 03:42am on 20 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    GoSeekYourRights - what are you trying to say? None of your links appear appropriate to the subjects raised here and I'm surprised that the Mods haven't bothered to check the YouTube content. Self-promotion seems to be the goal, but I stand to be corrected.

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  • 24. At 03:47am on 20 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    I don't see any significance in there being open positions in government a few months into a new president's term. Why should this be an issue? Can you point to any particular thing that is being held up because we have not had an Undersecretary of State for Europe? What have the Secretary of State and the professional State Department staff not been able to handle?

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  • 25. At 03:49am on 20 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    David_Cunard (#23), this is just another Jack's aliases. He's ticked off at having been banned for the third or fourth time, and just wants to thumb his nose at the BBC until this name gets removed also.

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  • 26. At 03:54am on 20 Jun 2009, OldSouth wrote:

    Correction: That $135 billion should read $165 billion:

    $31 billion in 3-month bills
    $27 billion in 7-year notes
    $40 billion in 2-year notes
    $37 billion in 5-year notes
    $30 billion in 6-month bills

    Annualized this is $8.58 trillion dollars...

    http://tinyurl.com/lubjvq

    35 billion here, 35 billion there, pretty soon it adds up to real money.

    Regardless of political ideology, math is math, and Mr. Obama is spending us into insolvency.

    Cause for concern, from all points of the political compass.



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  • 27. At 03:54am on 20 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    faeth (#6) "They are usually trying to protect their churches from lawsuits based on their religious beliefs."

    Nonsense. Churches cannot be sued for any policy based on their faith, and everyone (except, seemingly you) knows that. A minister can refuse to consecrate any marriage for any reason at all. Anyone who doesn't like it can just look for another official.

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  • 28. At 05:05am on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    9, saintD.
    "The topic being discussed is, indeed, boring but North Korea's announcement that they plan to launch a missile in the direction of Hawaii on the 4th of July is far from boring."

    Accroding to what I read the missile doe snot have the capacity to reach Hawasii. So I guess the media is once again making merry. Korea does not want war tiwh us and surely China doesn't. We owe her too much money.

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  • 29. At 05:11am on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    26, OldSouth.
    "35 billion here, 35 billion there, pretty soon it adds up to real money."

    Except it is not real money. Gold and silver are real money. Ask the Indians.

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  • 30. At 05:21am on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    25, Gary.
    "David_Cunard (#23), this is just another Jack's aliases. He's ticked off at having been banned for the third or fourth time, and just wants to thumb his nose at the BBC until this name gets removed also."

    Has Jack actually been banned again? But the new name you ascribe to him seems unlikely because the capitalization is correct, and there aren't all those empty spaces and fractured sentences. How does one get to know when someone is banned? And if he is banned, why aren't the resident loonies? Iguess I don't understand how this game is played.

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  • 31. At 05:24am on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    Mods. Why is 28 referrred? It is harmless.

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  • 32. At 06:09am on 20 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    "And above all a reminder that this administration is not yet fully staffed!"

    Perhaps you should look homewards and check the disarray in which the present government and its leader find themselves. The cabinet reshuffle and revelations about "expenses" are far more egregious than any problem in Washington.

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  • 33. At 07:00am on 20 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    31. At 05:24am on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    "Mods. Why is 28 referrred? It is harmless."

    You (or I) might think so, but the general application of the House Rules seems to have become not only arbitrary but particularly idiosyncratic and fallacious over the last few weeks. cf Post 4.

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  • 34. At 07:10am on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    32, Squirrel.

    I will try repeating half of my comment. I read today that the North Korean missile did not have the capacity to reach Hawaii, and added that the media was making merry once again.

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  • 35. At 07:20am on 20 Jun 2009, Orville Eastland wrote:

    It's interesting that you should mention Phillip Gordon. As the eyes of the world are on Iran, another nation is facing protests in the streets against its government. However, said nation has the backing of much of the world community, including the USA. That nation is the Republic of Georgia.
    Recently, Phillip Gordon was in Georgia. He stated, and I quote, "We appreciated the way the government is dealing with the protests[.]" and "We are here to emphasise our interest and our support to Georgia. We stand by Georgia, we stand by its territorial integrity, democracy, relations with the United States[.]"
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h9cZwW86nL75fmtmtQhZYT6abMPw
    The situation in Georgia is growing more tense. Protesters have thrown rocks and bottles at the car of a parliament leader.The US condemned that, and called on the opposition to condemn it as well.
    http://georgia.usembassy.gov/official-statements-20010/u2.s.-statement-on-assaults-against-parliamentarians-june-13-2009
    Two days later, Georgian troops attacked protesters, hospitalizing many of them. They also attacked journalists. An opposition leader said, "The statements made by the U.S., French and Czech ambassadors clearly gave impetus to the authorities to act as criminals and bandits today[.]"
    http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE55E38Y20090615

    If America wants to have any credibility on the world stage, it should be consistent. The rights of all must be respected, not just the few we like.

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  • 36. At 07:29am on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    4, waterman.

    What I don't understand is why the most hateful remarks by people like staphylococcus aureus and ubermensch, spouting racism and xenophobia, are allowed to stand, while relatively benign comments are removed. Is it because those people are obviously talking nonsense, and the more rational are not?

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  • 37. At 07:31am on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    32, Squirrel.

    The othe rhalf of my comment was that China could not involve itself in war with us because we owed her too much money.

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  • 38. At 08:10am on 20 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #37. allmymarbles: "The other half of my comment was that China could not involve itself in war with us because we owed her too much money."

    Not only that, but what would the Chinese really do with the USA? It's too big to actually conquer and subjugate 300 million people. I always felt that about the USSR - how could they have have dominated such a huge territory? It's not like pre-war Europe with Germany (more-or-less) in the middle and which could send off its military to all points and then follow up with bureaucrats to ensure the population toed the line. If there were large areas decimated by nuclear weapons, the US manufacturing sectors would probably be useless to a "conquering nation". I always considered the Cold War a waste of time and energy since the USSR could not gain anything of any practical use. But good for industry and the suppliers to the military!

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  • 39. At 09:04am on 20 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Operation Eradication
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut8LeemgWaQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJsBk2DHLU8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWEqZj_UKUc

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  • 40. At 09:36am on 20 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    re post thirty nine
    what a bam bam
    should gone 2 iran
    what a situtaion
    tell it to the nation

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  • 41. At 10:51am on 20 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    allmymarbles # 36
    I am forced to conclude that in any large organisation, the figurehead has grown to become too aloof to the workers on the shop floor. The right hand does not "seem" to realise what the left hand is doing.
    Somebody in the organisation, and here I am yet to decide where I feel the blame should be placed, is promoting a private agenda, and keeping a very well ground axe in their hand. Tail wagging dog or something else? To what level of seniority should we be considering?
    Over "talking nonsense", I would confirm that the description clearly describes my general input. I would however add that now playing gardener, I have learned to seperate the wood from the trees, and am very aware of the bugs and fungus that can attack the heartwood. Present action seems more directed at removing the mosses, harmless butterflies and songbirds that sit on the branches.
    Early surgery could save the tree. Delayed action and we lose the forest.
    wma.

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  • 42. At 11:17am on 20 Jun 2009, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #36

    Probaly becayse criticizing Obama and calling terrorists what they are, is neither racist or zenophobic.

    Are you member of academia (in particular arts and sciences) because your lack of tolerance for other viewpoints mirrors theirs.

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  • 43. At 12:20pm on 20 Jun 2009, verycynicalsceptic wrote:

    I get tired of saying this, Americans always revert to type whats the big surprise?

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  • 44. At 12:48pm on 20 Jun 2009, saintDominick wrote:

    Ref 22, OldSouth

    "The sense of unease about President Obama's intentions and actions is growing in all quarters."

    There is, indeed, a sense of uneasiness in the USA, but many of us do not blame President Obama for the economic and fiscal calamities he inherited. The USA is bankrupt and the infusion of money that is underway to stimulate recovery and save our capitalist system is aggravating a problem that existed when President Obama was inaugurated.

    The money spent to restore solvency in our banking system has produced relatively good results and it is being paid back. Sadly, the real estate market and the construction industry are not showing signs of recovery; and GM and Chrysler auto sales are so dismal those companies may never recover, at least not in their present form.

    With foreign creditors becoming increasingly reluctant to lend us money and foreign investment in decline, the only option to keep us afloat is to print more money, which will result in further devaluations of our currency and an inflationary trend that will require significant interest rate increases. Add to that the effect if speculation in oil futures, and its devastating consequences to our economy, and the future of our country looks as bleak as it did in January.

    The ideal approach during normal recessions is to let market forces take care of the recovery, but these are not normal circumstances and even if the stimulus works as advertised our future is going to be very different from the way things were as recently as the 1990s.

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  • 45. At 12:54pm on 20 Jun 2009, saintDominick wrote:

    Ref 43, VCS

    "I get tired of saying this, Americans always revert to type whats the big surprise?"

    Would you care to elaborate? We are a nation of over 300 million people, our ethnic makeup includes people from every corner of the planet, all religions - and non-religious groups - are represented in our society, some of us are politically and socially conservative while others are moderate or liberal; when you stereotype the population of a nation like ours you demonstrate a lack of familiarity with who we are that detracts from whatever point you tried to make.

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  • 46. At 1:11pm on 20 Jun 2009, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #44

    Prior to the dark day of Jan 20, 2009 you are correct that Obama can not be blamed. He was a minor Senator with almost no accomplishments.

    However one can argue that his bailout of GM and and ufair treatment of the bond holders of Chrysler were incorrect

    The two Democrats in goverment who can be blamed are: Barney Frank who lied about the stability of Fannie Mae and Freddic Mac and pressured banks to make unsound loans. And Senator Chris Dodd who took a sweetheart loan from Countrywide a major factor in the mortage crisis.

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  • 47. At 1:59pm on 20 Jun 2009, saintDominick wrote:

    Ref 46, Magic

    Both parties share the blame for what has happened and we, as citizens of a free country with the ability to elect our leaders and oppose policies detrimental to our well being, are equally responsible for the excesses, greed, and lack of vision that produced the malaise that is putting the future of our children in jeopardy.

    Blaming Dodd and Frank for the problems we are having is a partisan over simplification that does not contribute to the debate that is ongoing regarding the best course of action to solve our economic and fiscal problems, any more than blaming the Bush administration and the GOP controlled Congress of years past will. The focus must be on the future and must include long term solutions that are achievable instead of pipe dreams we can not afford or will be short lived.

    My fear is that the expensive course of action that has been laid out may produce temporary relief, but will do little to preserve the long term integrity of our industry, economy, fiscal solvency or the fabric of our society. We are facing a perilous future, and spending time on traditional partisan sniping will do nothing to mitigate the effects of the crises we are enduring.

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  • 48. At 2:18pm on 20 Jun 2009, saintDominick wrote:

    Ref 46, Magic

    "Barney Frank who lied about the stability of Fannie Mae and Freddic Mac and pressured banks to make unsound loans."

    I am not interested in engaging in who lied to who, but let's not forget that it was a former President of the USA who said that the economic fundamentals were sound and the future of our country looked peachy. The chances of banks and other institutions setting policy because of pressure from a couple of congressmen or senators, particularly when those politicians were in the minority and even during the two years when the Democrats held a tenuous majority before President Obama's election, is a facile cheap shot.

    According to testimony from Mr. Lewis, the BoA CEO, he was pressured by Bernanke and Secretary Paulsson to buy Merril Lynch, an insolvent company that became an albatross around the neck of what was once a prosperous bank. Banks do react to pressure from the Fed and administrations, they are seldom influenced by commentaries made by single senators and congressmen.

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  • 49. At 2:24pm on 20 Jun 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    President Obama had better start bringing some people on board with some new ideas such as how to finance his health care plan. The Democrats in Congress have unveiled their version this week and it's expected to cost one trillion dollars over the next ten years. They propose to pay for it with a vague array of new taxes and increased taxes on sugary foods, alcohol, people making over $200,000 a year. During the campaign, Obama promised no one's taxes who made less than $250,000 would go up. This is the same ruse that cost the first President Bush a second term. He said during his campaign; "read my lips, no new taxes" and then increased what he called "user fees" for things like federal parks. That ploy won't work. One way to raise some of the money would be for the US to pull out of NATO and remove its troops from Europe. NATO was created to prevent the USSR from taking over Western Europe the way the took over Eastern Europe at a time when Europe couldn't defend itself. That threat no longer exists and the Europeans are fond of telling us just how rich they are. Let them pay for their own national defense. We'll have more money of health insurance at home. Where they get the money for their own health insurance and other social safety nets while they pay to defend themselves will be their problem, not ours. It's time we stopped paying their way especially as they thumb their noses at us.

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  • 50. At 2:31pm on 20 Jun 2009, cecillake10 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 51. At 2:57pm on 20 Jun 2009, carolinalady wrote:

    Did anyone see the JibJab, premiered last night at the RTCA Dinner? Come on folks, This is only the 6th month of a 4year administration, with a possible 4 more years after that: are you expecting perfect right out of the box? Doesn't happen.

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  • 52. At 4:51pm on 20 Jun 2009, Satheesan Kochicheril wrote:

    All the systems that have taken hold of the nation serve themselves. The financial institutions had no control to the effect that they destroyed themselves and the savings of the millions. The healthcare systems do not serve all, they are the fat calves that must be sacrficed for the benefit of the people, for they changed the nation that stood 'for the people' to one that stands 'for trade'.

    Obama was given power when all these fat calves destroyed the nation. Americans became nororious in other parts of the world due to its ruthless invasion of Iraq. All their systems that were supposed to serve the people had nobody to control them, the political leaders were concerned with the affairs of other nations. These leaders could not control these corporations because they were the puppets of these systems. President Obama is trying to chage all those that are supposed to serve the people so that they serve the people better, not the corporations. He has all ingredients to be the greatest of all the Presidents and other national leaders. The only thing that is required is the support of the elected representatives of the people in his efforts to serve the nation and the people. There cannot be any excuses for that. Of course the fat calves will bray calling such efforts foul. Let theirs be their final songs. All these corporations that have taken hold of the people must be recast to serve the people.

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  • 53. At 4:54pm on 20 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #44, St. D, I agree with most of what you have said, but I don't think
    that the Keynesian approach is going to work. The Obama administration
    seems to be going out of its way to get us deeper into debt, as if that
    will save us.

    The world is very different than the 1930s. And, the stimulus does
    not appear to be particularly well targeted to projects that would
    promote growth, because, after all, politicians are in charge of it.

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  • 54. At 5:15pm on 20 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Obama Got Game
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_VFGrGnCE

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  • 55. At 5:17pm on 20 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    It Ain't My Fault
    Did I Do That..?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lmU0ple0KE

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  • 56. At 5:23pm on 20 Jun 2009, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #47

    Bush is out of office, but Frank and Dodd are still collecting fat salaries and pensions. the head of GM was forced out by Obama.

    He should have publicly called for these two to resign.

    I don't want a man who is rightly called a coward, Barney Frank with any influence on the recovery.

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  • 57. At 6:45pm on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    38, David.
    "Not only that, but what would the Chinese really do with the USA? It's too big to actually conquer and subjugate 300 million people."

    I was very young during WWII. I remember looking at a world map and thinking how small Germany and Japan were. With the clear eyes of a child I knew it was impossible for two such tiny nations to conquer America and Russia.

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  • 58. At 6:49pm on 20 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Obama reminds me of D-Nice
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UuFHMnWMRo

    Girls just call me Derek

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  • 59. At 7:23pm on 20 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    Ms. Marbles, DC, just ask the Chinese about their occupation by the Japanese.
    No country is too big to be occupied, and the Axis almost took over the world.

    The USSR was peculiar in that most of its arable land and population was
    concentrated west of the Urals. Occupation of the non-European part of Russia
    could have taken place at a leisurely rate.

    WWII was a close-run thing. Just because the US is a geographically big
    country does not mean that it could not be occupied, but it would have to have
    been gradual.

    In any event, the atomic bomb and missiles were "game changers" and the
    final conflict would have been nuclear. We had the bomb, and they had
    missiles. Could we have developed ICBMs before they stole the secret of
    the bomb?


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  • 60. At 7:59pm on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    59, guns.

    It is not just a matter of geographical size, but also of population. Where would Germany have gotten enough fighting men to occupy and control the vastness of America and Russia? Sure they could have conscripted men from the countries they had already conquered, but that is very chancey.

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  • 61. At 8:30pm on 20 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    60, Ms. Marbles, in fact many Ukranians volunteered to fight against the
    Russians, but Hitler considered them "subhuman," and so refused their help.

    Once in a while, evil cancels out, and good results. But, it wasn't necessary
    for the Axis to physically occupy the rest of the world all at once.
    It took the Conquistadors a hundred years or so to wipe out the Incas and
    the Aztecs.

    Besides, I don't think that the Germans and Japanese had plans to "occupy"
    in the sense that you mean. They were simply going about murdering the
    local population and replacing it with their own. For the Germans, the
    Slavic people were to suffer the same fate as the Jews and the Gypsies,
    mass extermination after they were used as forced labor to supply the
    means of their own destruction.

    As for us, Hitler viewed us as the gravest threat because of interbreeding.
    God only knows what he would have done with us.

    But, the final conflict with us would have been nuclear, and the only
    question is, which side would have developed the capability to develop
    and deliver nuclear weapons without fear of interception first. Neither
    side had both during WWII.

    The Japanese began developing a 6-engine bomber to deliver a series
    of biological attacks on the US mainland, but Iwo Jima and Okinawa forced
    them to divert resources from the project. So, their Navy developed a
    submarine carrying a seaplane to deliver their first attack (on San Diego)
    but they were several months late - the atomic bomb forced their surrender.

    They had previously perfected their biological weapons in attacks in China,
    killing somewhere between 250,000 and 500,000 civilians.

    In an era of weapons of mass destruction, it is not necessary to physically
    occupy a country to destroy or substantially weaken it. But, they probably
    would have occupied us anyway to destroy the last vestiges of resistance.

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  • 62. At 10:05pm on 20 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #59. gunsandreligion: "Ms. Marbles, DC, just ask the Chinese about their occupation by the Japanese. No country is too big to be occupied, and the Axis almost took over the world."

    (We) don't agree! As this map shows, not all of China was occupied - and the Axis powers were nowhere near taking over all the world. Entire continents were beyond their sphere of influence - Australia, North and South America, India and most of Africa.

    #61. "Besides, I don't think that the Germans and Japanese had plans to "occupy" in the sense that you mean."

    Why not? They occupied those countries which they had overrun. Ask the Austrians! The point is that the USA was (is) too big geographically for any one country to dominate - even the Federal Government has difficulty - and it's American!

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  • 63. At 10:27pm on 20 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    62, DC, I have to respectfully disagree. The Germans effectively occupied
    most of the areas that they conquered, the exceptions being remote regions
    in rugged terrain, such as in Yugoslavia and Greece. The only reason that
    they had difficulty there was that the British were helping the locals, and
    the Germans were occupied fighting allied forces elsewhere on a massive scale.

    Additionally, it was not necessary for the Axis to have physically
    occupied the US and the USSR all at once. It would only have been necessary
    to deny access to resources and to destroy the Allies' industrial bases.

    There were many turning points: Stalingrad, Moscow, the Battle of Britain,
    to name a few. But there were many other, lesser known battles which revolved
    around access to "choke points." What if Franco had allowed the Germans to
    occupy Gibraltar? What if the Japanese had occupied Ceylon in 1942,
    and thereby were able to occupy India? What if we had lost Guadalcanal,
    and thusly allowed the Japanese to take Australia?

    With control of these choke points mentioned above, as well as others,
    such as the Suez Canal, the Axis could easily have taken control of
    Eurasia. How could even a country as powerful as the United States
    possibly fend off such an enormous, inimically hostile, and wretchedly
    evil power bloc such as that?

    Yes, we had the bomb, the computer, and superior radar technology,
    but the Germans were ahead of us in jet propulsion, missile technology,
    and could easily have built a bomb if they knew it were possible.

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  • 64. At 10:50pm on 20 Jun 2009, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref 347

    they key is adaptation and not holding on to failed models.

    150 years ago most agriculture was done on small farms. That model no longer works.

    likewise the Labor Union which has offered no advanatages in the last several decades must go the way of the dinosaur.

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  • 65. At 11:24pm on 20 Jun 2009, moderate_observer wrote:

    filling out white house posts always takes a long time because each member of the administration has to be approved by members of the government who are not in the presidents inner circle (unlike cabinet posts in the westminister) . Welcome to Washington Justin, you will find things are not done in the same way as it is done in the UK.

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  • 66. At 11:42pm on 20 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #59. gunsandreligion: "We had the bomb, and they had missiles. Could we have developed ICBMs before they stole the secret of the bomb?"

    It was Germany which developed the missile and whisked away von Braun and his colleagues before the USSR could do so - they led the world in rocketry. As for "stealing" the secret of the atomic bomb, by all accounts they were near to making one. But even if they had, I cannot see that they could have subjugated the USA, let alone all of North America.

    #64. "It would only have been necessary to deny access to resources and to destroy the Allies' industrial bases."

    As MAII has pointed out, the US was (and could still be) independent of such resources. Britain of course was an entirely different matter since imports were the stuff of life for her, hence the British Empire. It was not for nothing that the words "Empire Made" were on so many consumer articles. I think you overestimate Germany's ability to dominate the world. There is little doubt in my mind that was a goal, but it was one of a madman who relied greatly on astrology and not the advice of his generals. Despite your argument, I don't see how, realistically, total domination could have been achieved.

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  • 67. At 11:55pm on 20 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Welcome to the Official Obama Presidential Team Test
    You may act smart, but are you really dumb? The trick questions in this test will expose your true dumbness. Take the dumb test and find out if you're dumb!

    1. If there are five banks, and you take away three, how many do you have?
    a) 0
    b) 1
    c) 2
    d) 3
    e) 4
    f) 5

    2. Do they have a Fourth of July in England?
    a) Yes
    b) No
    c) Only during leap years

    3. The Spanish Civil War, which began July 17 of 1936, was fought between:
    a) Spain and Germany
    b) Mexico and the United States
    c) The Allies and the Axis
    d) Spain and Italy
    e) None of the above

    4. A rancher has 33 head of cattle standing in a field, when suddenly a bolt of lightning kills all but 9 of them. How many head of cattle are left standing?
    a) 0
    b) 9
    c) 15
    d) 24
    e) 26

    5. Recent history, the USSR was the U.S.'s enemy. Do you know what USSR stood for?
    a) Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
    b) Universalist Social Soviets Reunited
    c) Union of Socialist Soviet Republicans
    d) United Socialist Soviet Russians
    e) United Symbols of Soviet Republics

    6. You're the pilot of an airplane that travels from New York to Chicago - a distance of 800 miles. The plane travels at 200 MPH and makes one stop for 30 minutes. What is the pilot's name?
    Please answer this question.
    a) Necessary information is missing.
    b) You can't tell from the question.
    c) Both a & b.
    e) You can tell from the question.

    7. If the Vice President of the United States died, who would be President?
    a) The Speaker of the House.
    b) The Senate Majority Leader.
    c) The Secretary of State.
    d) The President.
    e) The President Pro Temp.

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  • 68. At 00:13am on 21 Jun 2009, MagicKirin wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 69. At 00:26am on 21 Jun 2009, moderate_observer wrote:

    #53 guns hence why the stimulus will fail or get lost in red tape. Politicians priorty is to save face. If it comes down to paying for a project that makes them popular or a project that can stimulate significant growth in the economy, 9 out of 10 will select option one.

    The stimulus would be better served as a low interest rate line of credit to any institution that qualifies to receive it. Then those who want to invest in job creating development projects could fill their boots.

    I dont know if it would work, but im not the one making the big bucks to figure it out.

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  • 70. At 01:09am on 21 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    61. At 8:30pm on 20 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    60, Ms. Marbles, in fact many Ukranians volunteered to fight against the
    Russians, but Hitler considered them "subhuman," and so refused their help.

    Dear Guns:

    This is not precisely correct. The Germans did in fact enlist approximately one million Russians and Ukrainians in the "Russian Liberation Army". They fought against Stalin wearing German uniforms and using German equipment.

    In a well known controversial incident at the end of the war, two divisions of these troops under Generals Vlasov and Bunyachenko tried to march to the American lines, thinking that by surrendering to the Americans near Budweis and Schlusselburg, they might avoid the wrath of Stalin. However, under the Yalta agreement the western allies had agreed to turn over all such prisoners to the Red Army.

    Some of Patton's officers could see what was going to happen. So they turned a blind eye, and more or less let the prisoners melt into the countryside. In the end, though, the Americans turned the remainder over to the Red Army.

    All night long the American troops could hear as the prisoners were lined up, were given one last shot of vodka, gave a cheer, and were executed by firing squad. A cheer, followed by a rifle volley. Over, and over, and over.

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  • 71. At 01:29am on 21 Jun 2009, Orville Eastland wrote:

    "US President Barack Obama has warned Iran to stop all 'unjust action against its own people', after another day of protests over the presidential poll.

    Witnesses said security forces used batons and live ammunition in clashes with protesters, who had gathered in defiance of the country's leader.

    Mr Obama urged Iran's leaders to 'govern through consent, not coercion'.

    Defeated candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi repeated calls for the election to be annulled on the grounds it was rigged.

    Mr Obama, in a statement from the White House on Saturday, said: 'The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.'"

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8111242.stm

    "On May 6" (In Georgia) "police used batons and fired plastic bullets to repel protesters throwing rocks and sticks as they attempted to climb over a fence around a detention centre where three opposition activists were being held.

    On May 29 dozens of police and protesters armed with sticks clashed near parliament, leaving several people injured."

    http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/World/Story/STIStory_388069.html

    "A senior US envoy on Wednesday praised the government of the former Soviet republic Georgia for how it has handled weeks of opposition protests calling on President Mikheil Saakashvili to resign.

    'We appreciated the way the government is dealing with the protests,' Philip Gordon, the US assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, told a press conference in the Georgian capital Tbilisi.

    He also said the US supports democratic reforms in Georgia, including on media freedom.

    Georgia's opposition has been staging daily protests since April 9, accusing Saakashvili of having mishandled a five-day war with Russia last August and of having become increasingly autocratic since coming to power after the peaceful 2003 Rose Revolution.

    Police have allowed the protests to continue for two months, despite street blockades that have disrupted traffic on the capital's main street and outside some government buildings.

    Saakashvili has offered talks on democratic reforms, but negotiations have so far failed to resolve the deadlock.

    Clashes between police and protesters have erupted twice since the demonstrations began, raising fears of wider unrest.

    Washington has been a strong backer of Georgia's efforts to build closer ties with the West and to join the NATO military alliance and Gordon said that support would continue.

    'We are here to emphasise our interest and our support to Georgia. We stand by Georgia, we stand by its territorial integrity, democracy, relations with the United States,' he said.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h9cZwW86nL75fmtmtQhZYT6abMPw

    "The United States condemns the attacks by protesters on members of Parliament, including the Speaker, on June 12 and regrets the decision of some protest leaders to endorse these assaults on both people and property. These actions undermine the protest leaders' prior statements calling for non-violent action. These attacks both interfered with official activities and crossed a line from free expression of opinion to criminal activity. We ask all those who support a wider political dialogue and responsible governance to condemn these attacks and urge the leaders of the protest actions to stop these attacks immediately."

    http://georgia.usembassy.gov/official-statements-20010/u2.s.-statement-on-assaults-against-parliamentarians-june-13-2009

    "THE WHITE HOUSE

    Office of the Vice President
    May 14, 2009

    Washington, DC Vice President Joe Biden spoke by telephone today with Georgias President Mikheil Saakashvilli. They discussed a number of issues on the bilateral agenda and reaffirmed both governments commitment to a strong relationship between the United States and Georgia. The Vice President emphasized the United States unwavering support for Georgias sovereignty and territorial integrity. The Vice President welcomed the Georgian governments measured response to the ongoing opposition protests and its efforts to engage in a dialogue with the non-parliamentary opposition. He encouraged the government to continue its outreach."

    http://georgia.usembassy.gov/official-statements-20010/untitled.html

    Mr. Obama, you and your administration are bare-faced liars.

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  • 72. At 02:00am on 21 Jun 2009, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #67

    1: D
    2: A
    3: E is what I suspect you want as the answer, although the GErmans faought on the side of Franco against the socialists, so technically you could say
    4: B
    5: A
    6: E - Pilot Sam. You missed option D
    7: D

    All of which goes to show a fool with a tool is still a fool.

    Now, I know a couple of folks working for the current administration. Knew a couple of folks who worked for the last one.

    The only non statistical observation I have is that the folks in the last one thought they were the smartest folks in the room. But unfortunately they were both dumber than a bucket of rocks. The folks in the current administration really care a lot about what they do and don't think they are the smartest folks in the room (though they are smarter than me.

    Which brings me to my point. Whenever you assume you are smarter than someone else, you probably ain't.

    Dumb Sam

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  • 73. At 02:02am on 21 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 74. At 02:13am on 21 Jun 2009, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #63

    Guns,

    The Germans didn't efectively occupy large areas, especially in the Ukraine. The tale of the Bielski Partisans (recently made into a movie but much better as a book) tells the tale of the progressive loss of territory and control.

    I also doubt Japan could have occupied India. The Indian regiments in Burma kicked Japan's ass and did more th defeat the Japanese army than any other nation. I suspect an attack on India itself would have resulted in a massacre of the Japs.

    That said, Had Hitloer taken Brtain out, and Churchill used the Royal Navy as the final bargaining chip to get a settlement of something like Vichy France, then America coule have been isolated and over a longer period we could have found ourselves deep sixed.

    Historian Sam

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  • 75. At 04:21am on 21 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    Re #73 This comment has been referred to the moderators.

    Things have come to a pretty pass when stating the truth about an individual is "referred". In reference to #68 I had noted that the lady in question had lost her son in the war initiated by the forty-third president of the United States and suggested that the poster too would be upset. How that can be considered offensive is beyond me! However, it does seem symptomatic of contemporary Britain where political correctness has reached new heights. Much as I disagree with the opinions of MAII, I fear that in cases such as this he is correct. But then, unlike the United States, there is no guarantee of freedom of speech, something I have come to expect. Very sad.

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  • 76. At 04:53am on 21 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    75, David -

    It's interesting that the poster you were responding to called someone, by name, a terrorist supporter, which could be considered libelous and yet it was your response that was pulled. This is a weird ongoing problem with this blog.

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  • 77. At 04:54am on 21 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    66, DC, we shall have to disagree about what remains, quite fortunately,
    a matter of speculation.

    70, IF, I had never heard the story. Like so many, very tragic. But then,
    the Ukranians provided little shelter for their Jewish population from
    the Nazis, unlike, say, the Italians, who refused to cooperate with Hitler.
    So, it is tragic, and indicative of the lack of love between the Russians
    and their Eastern European neighbors, but they had a choice of 2 sides,
    which were each the wrong side.

    I did know that the Ukranians provided a small number of recruits for the
    SS, perhaps a division or so. But, I did not know that such a large
    number were recruited into the regular army. I did know that Ukranians
    and other nationalities were inducted into static divisions on the western
    front, and were encountered in Normandy, but I had always assumed that they
    were the military equivalent of slaves. Now, thanks to your post, I
    shall have to investigate the matter more fully.

    Sam, while the Indians provided large number of competent troops in the British
    Empire, and were important not just in SE asia, but also in North Africa,
    I really doubt that they could have survived on their own with the
    Japanese in control of the Indian Ocean. They just did not have a
    significant industrial base at the time. As far as I know, there
    was no significant local production of tanks, aircraft or trucks
    at the time. One wonders why the British employed a policy of mercantilism;
    they would have been in a much stronger position in that theater had they
    built up an industrial base there.

    Fortunately, the Japanese Army and Navy essentially fought two different
    wars. If they had ever gotten together, we would really have been in
    trouble.

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  • 78. At 06:45am on 21 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 77 gunsandreligion

    If you ever shot an Arisaka Type 99 rifle you would wonder how the Japanese Army did as well as they had.

    It fires a 7.7X58mm round, has a bolt-action where the straight lever on the bolt comes up to block the sight picture during the cycling of rounds. The action was also very ackward (at least the five different rifles I have shot), with a slow cycling movement. The five-round fixed magazine was loaded via a stripper-clip that became more a problem as metals became more scarce and were made too flimsy. They load very slow with the stripper-clip. I thoroughly cleaned and oiled the rifles before firing them. All the rifles were in very good to prime condition.

    The rifle was most always combined with a very long bayonet (about 3ft) during combat. The Japanese soldier was trained to move in close (excellent concealment and camouflage training) to the enemy and use the bayonet as a more "honorable" way of dispatching an enemy. More emphasis was placed on the bayonet than the actual firing of the rifle during training. The heavy, long bayonet made accurate shooting even more difficult. The bayonet charge was the normal tactic of the troops. Very inefficient against the M-1 Garanda and Carbine they were matched up against.

    Wars are won by the boots on the ground. The Japanese soldier was a very brave combatant with antiquated training and a very poor rifle as compared to the U.S. rifles.

    On a side note. The Type 99 came equiped with these really odd, folding side wings on the rear sight. They were to be extended to shoot down aircraft. Completely ineffective. Later models did not have these useless appendages when metal became scarce.

    Japan was fighting to gain natural resources for manufacturing that extended their supply lines beyond anything they could protect even with their powerful Navy.

    Japan should have waited to attack the U.S. until they had an adequate source of raw materials and fuel coming through well-protected supply lines. The conquest of China was an obsession they could not control. Too many troops were tied up on the mainland that was using up too many resources instead of providing materials.

    Their greatest asset was the loyalty and will of the people to make war. An invasion of the main islands would have been a larger blood bath than what the Atomic bombs created. Read about the civilian suicides on Saipan to get an idea of what the loyalty of the people would have been like on the main islands.

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  • 79. At 07:35am on 21 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #78. publiusdetroit: "Wars are won by the boots on the ground."

    Not in the case of Japan - two powerful weapons dropped from the air ensured that!

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  • 80. At 07:44am on 21 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #76. bere54: "75, David - It's interesting that the poster you were responding to called someone, by name, a terrorist supporter, which could be considered libelous and yet it was your response that was pulled."

    It appears that the Mods have noticed your words (above, italicised) and have now removed the post to which I responded. But my reply has not as yet been reinstated! As you say, "This is a weird ongoing problem with this blog."

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  • 81. At 08:16am on 21 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 79 David_Cunard

    The boots on the ground got the planes close enough to drop their bombs. Had to take Saipan and Tinian; and that was all boots on the ground.

    The Battle of Saipan has always been over-shadowed by the Normandy invasion. D-Day Saipan was 15 JUNE 1944. More U.S. soldiers lost their lives taking Saipan than in the Normandy Invasion. 71,000 Marines and soldiers of the 2nd and 4th Divisions and 27th Infantry of the U.S. Army attacked a well-dug in force of 31,000 Japanese troops. 2,949 Marines and Infantry lost their lives. 10,364 were wounded. The Japanese lost 24,000 dead; 5,000 suicides (Military; does not include civilian suicides); 921 prisoners of war. The Germans fell back in force. The Japanese fought to the death. They knew the importance of Saipan.

    Saipan was a natural fortress with a honey-comb of caves. It was hit by aerial bombs and heavily shelled from the sea with little effect. The fighting was at close quarters and relentless on both sides. It took boots on the ground to take the island. No Saipan, no Tinian, no bomb run to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No Saipan, no Iwo Jima, no B-29 base for bombing the Japanese main island to knock out Japanese air defenses so the bomb could be dropped.

    We continuously bombed the Iraqi forces from 17 January 1991 until 24 February 1991 with a wealth of high-tech arms during Desert Storm. It still took boots on the ground to defeat the Iraqi Army. The air forces wanted real bad to show that a war could be won by air-power alone. The air forces had to admit by the middle of the third week of the air war that all they were doing was "bouncing the rubble". Boots on the ground ended the war.

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  • 82. At 08:17am on 21 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    publius

    I have not had the pleasure of firing a type 99. I'm glad that it was
    so primitive. But, here is a counterpoint: when the 1st Marine division
    invaded Guadalcanal, they did not have the M-1. They had Springfield
    model 1903 bolt action rifles, which, while probably
    better made, did not fire any faster and which also had
    a 5-round clip.


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  • 83. At 08:55am on 21 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 82 gunsandreligion

    St. Gunny-

    I was certain you would come back with that fact. My experience with the 1903 Springfield leaves me to believe the cycling was much smoother and a bit faster. I practiced cycling a long time with the Arasaka and could never get it to cycle as well as a Springfield. The strip-clips loaded about the same speed. If anything, a slight advantage for the Springfield when compared to loading an Arasaka with a "good" stripper.

    Still; the Japanese relied on the close contact/bayonet tactics. The rate of fire from the Japanese was not as high as the U.S. rate of fire. And once more, they fired with the long bayonet affixed to the barrel (not snipers who had a modified model and were very effective). The weight was all in front. Even with my longer arms the Arasaka was difficult to put on center for the first round. A rapid, second round would be way off center even from a prone position. Take a 7mm Remington and affix about 2.5 pounds on the end of the muzzle and try punching center.

    We almost lost at Guadalcanal. The Japanese lost a lot of their forces to the close contact/bayonet charge tactics. Their antiquated training and tactics eventually caused their collapse on Guadalcanal. They could not reinforce as quickly as their loses depleted the force.

    A war game I like to play is to give the Japanese Army the training and tactics of the U.S. Marine Corps in the Battle of Guadalcanal. The Japanese win. One sore spot for them was command structure. The average Japanese soldier needed orders from above and were slow to function at a unit level when junior officers and NCOs were killed. The Marine could fight and improvise, as a unit, much better with the lose of junior command level.

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  • 84. At 08:59am on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 85. At 09:20am on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    New York
    Gun Talk
    AK got that
    SK got that
    MAC-11 got that
    MAC-10 got that
    Marksberg shot that
    Desert Eagle shot that
    40 Cal shot that
    What you been shot?
    Yeah and I shot back
    Now y'all wanna know
    exactly where I hit 'em at
    Legs not that
    Arms not that
    Shoulders not that
    You know me
    I'm gunning
    for their top hat

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  • 86. At 11:01am on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 87. At 11:02am on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Gangsters Be Aware..
    You know they got Cops everywhere

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  • 88. At 12:08pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 89. At 1:13pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Lord Sassafrass & Axe - "Obama"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBG4pxzmqLk

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  • 90. At 1:23pm on 21 Jun 2009, hms_shannon wrote:

    Ref 74 Sam.

    Right about India Vs Japan.After the longest retreat in world history by the British,Indian forces fought the Japanese to a stand still at the battle of Kohina.Marking the high tide of Japanese advance there.Indian troops carried the day & were more than equal to the Japanese.British forces were there & in the middle of it but by then thin on the ground.
    The British Empire,Greatest in the world?or the biggest case of over stretch ever?

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  • 91. At 1:35pm on 21 Jun 2009, hms_shannon wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 92. At 1:48pm on 21 Jun 2009, american grizzly wrote:

    most Americans are not too concerned about foreign policy and give the President high marks for his handling of foreign policy.

    Obama's foreign policy? American foreign policy has not changed at all from the Bush admin to the Obama admin. Perhaps the Obama foreign directed campaign speeches may make it seem this way. Right now the challenges on the increase from North Korea are viewing this present adiministration as a Paper Tiger. Chinese are even testing the waters with monetary moves and shadowing our defense forces at sea. Hold your breath. The stimulus package was designed to stop unemployment at 8% , it is not going to break over 10% by current predictions of economists. Europe has swung centrist/right. The US has swung to a failed socialist utopian belief. So how to challange North Korea? "I know let have a spelling contest!" No, that won't work. I know lets send Jimmy Carter, and remove them from the terror list! No, that won't change things. Make more apologies? Somebody help Obama out!

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  • 93. At 1:49pm on 21 Jun 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    GoSeekYour Rights;

    "Welcome to the Official Obama Presidential Team Test
    You may act smart, but are you really dumb? The trick questions in this test will expose your true dumbness. Take the dumb test and find out if you're dumb!"

    I've read your jive and I've heard your rap
    But my eyes too big not to see your trap
    I'll take your quiz and I'll eat your lunch
    Cause I've met your kind and I know your bunch
    I'm from the Bronx dude! I'm from the Bronx dude!

    "1. If there are five banks, and you take away three, how many do you have?
    a) 0
    b) 1
    c) 2
    d) 3
    e) 4
    f) 5"

    You'll have three banks...until they catch up with you.

    Bad boys bad boys,
    Whatcha gonna do?
    Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
    Bad boys bad boys.

    It's a federal felony to steal money from a bank or to steal a bank. How you gonna move three banks, like on house trailers? Then you'll get 5 to 20 from the judge. With any luck you'll serve 8 to 12 with time off for good behavior.

    You're on parole dude, you're on parole dude.

    "2. Do they have a Fourth of July in England?
    a) Yes
    b) No
    c) Only during leap years"

    No! In England, the fourth of July is a day that will live in infamy. Their calendars go straight from July 3 to July 5 but they have to have two July fifths in a row because if they didn't, each year English calendars would become out of sync with the rest of the world's by one more day.

    You're outa time dude. You're outa time dude.

    "3. The Spanish Civil War, which began July 17 of 1936, was fought between:
    a) Spain and Germany
    b) Mexico and the United States
    c) The Allies and the Axis
    d) Spain and Italy
    e) None of the above"

    None of the above. The war is between the bulls and the matadors. So far the matadors are winning but the bulls haven't given up yet. Personally I put my money on the bulls. Sooner or later they'll have the matadors figured out and when they do...free BBQ Spaniard for all bovines in Spain every week. After that, if the matadors are smart, they'll sue for peace.

    You're in a ring dude, you're in a ring dude.

    "4. A rancher has 33 head of cattle standing in a field, when suddenly a bolt of lightning kills all but 9 of them. How many head of cattle are left standing?
    a) 0
    b) 9
    c) 15
    d) 24
    e) 26"

    None. Seeing the 24 cattle drop dead, the surviving nine got spooked and ran off. Cattle know that lightning does strike twice in the same place even if people don't.

    You're on a ranch dude, you're on a ranch dude.

    "5. Recent history, the USSR was the U.S.'s enemy. Do you know what USSR stood for?
    a) Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
    b) Universalist Social Soviets Reunited
    c) Union of Socialist Soviet Republicans
    d) United Socialist Soviet Russians
    e) United Symbols of Soviet Republics"

    The USSR stood for Communism which they tried to spread all over the world. On December 25 1991 it died dead and stood no more.

    You're in the past dude, you're in the past dude.

    "6. You're the pilot of an airplane that travels from New York to Chicago - a distance of 800 miles. The plane travels at 200 MPH and makes one stop for 30 minutes. What is the pilot's name?
    Please answer this question.
    a) Necessary information is missing.
    b) You can't tell from the question.
    c) Both a & b.
    e) You can tell from the question."

    Wait a minute while I check the inside of my sleeve where my mother sewed my name in it in along with "left" and "right" before she sent me off to flying school this morning.

    You're on my flight dude, you're on my flight dude.

    "7. If the Vice President of the United States died, who would be President?
    a) The Speaker of the House.
    b) The Senate Majority Leader.
    c) The Secretary of State.
    d) The President.
    e) The President Pro Temp."

    According to a site I found, seven VPs died in office serving under six presidents so the President has to be one of the following six;

    Seven vice presidents have died in office:

    George Clinton (served under James Madison)

    Elbridge Gerry (served under James Madison)

    William Rufus De Vane King (served under Franklin Pierce)

    Henry Wilson (served under U.S. Grant)

    Thomas Hendricks (served under Grover Cleveland)

    Garret Hobart (served under William McKinley)

    James Sherman (served under William Howard Taft)

    Read a book dude, read a book dude.

    Now I took your test and it ain't so tough
    Like your hero "O" you're a real cream puff
    You think you're smart but you ain't got jack
    Get your act together or don't come back
    You're no Bronx dude! you're no Bronx dude!

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  • 94. At 1:49pm on 21 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    77. Guns.

    There's more irony to it than that. Those very same Russian and Ukrainian troops had turned on the Germans only days before to support Czech resistance fighters in Prague.

    And when you read that story, you will also see that the Czech reprisals against the Germans were horrendous, too. But in the previous chapter, you read about Lidice.

    Your point about the Ukrainians and the Jewish population is true too. Ukraine suffered badly - in the first War, four years of civil war, the ill fated Polish invasion, the great Stalin famine and the Stalin purges, the German assault and the Russian scorched earth retreat, the Russian reconquest and the German scorched earth retreat; the partisan and counter partisan raiding, particularly in the marshes. The Red Army was still hunting down anti-soviet partisan gangs in the Pripet (spelling?) marshes into the 1950's.

    Lots of Ukrainians (and Poles, be it said) blamed "the Jews" for their troubles, and for the establishment of Bolshevik power in the civil war. Cultural prejudice was huge. Example, you might hear simply of "Trotsky", but you might also hear the string "theJewTrotsky" as if it were one inseparable word. Pogroms against the Jews far predated the war by decades, if not centuries, back into tsarist times.

    The cover of war permitted all sorts of brigandage and settling of old scores, imagined or real. All wars are awful, but for a westerner, the brutality of the eastern war is hard to get your mind around. The final bitter irony is that when the Russians re-conquered the territory, many blamed the Jews for the Germans attack, and meted out reprisals accordingly on those few who had survived the Germans.

    Eastern Europe was full of old cultural hatreds - try Hungarians and Romanians; Hungarians and Slovaks; Hungarians and Serbs; Turks and Greeks; Serbs and Croats; Greeks and Macedonians and Albanians; Lithuanians and Russians; Poles and Germans, Poles and Russians, and on and on - and at the end of the war there was some ugly settling of scores.

    And, on top of it all was Stalin. He viewed anyone who had allowed themselves to be captured by the Germans as a traitor, to be summarily executed when "liberated". Just for fun he re-drew the borders of eastern Europe to make sure that each country would contain groups of people who hated each other. Yeah, a real joker that Stalin.

    I knew many East European emigres as a child, as a student, and in my work as a young adult. They had amazing, terrible stories. They came here, built lives for themselves from nothing, raised their children, and never looked back.

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  • 95. At 1:54pm on 21 Jun 2009, Pancha Chandra wrote:

    President Obama is being very deliberate:certainly taking his time in filling posts. It is far better to have capable people who have been totally vetted for their expertise, suitability rather than having mediocre officials! Of course critics of Obama would like to make a mountain out of a mole hill and critise him to the hilt. But one should realise that President Obama in his relatively short tenure so far has impressed world leaders for his ability to marshal facts and has changed perceptions of America in a very positive way. He has been able to command the respect of world leaders. In respite of the economic downturn, America is on the ascendency with regard to the positive hands-on approach of the President especially on the economy and foreign relations. His key appointees have performed brilliantly so far! America grows from strength to strength.

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  • 96. At 2:04pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    marcus and the meditations
    you think that you are much more smarter smarter than I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm4ked8hsLM

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  • 97. At 2:07pm on 21 Jun 2009, american grizzly wrote:

    " Several countries have been more than willing to do business with Iran. Those exporting more than $1 billion in goods to Iran last year included China, $8 billion; Germany, $5.7 billion; Italy, $3.2 billion; France, $2.6 billion; and Japan, $1.9 billion.

    That compares with about $747 million in exports to Iran by Britain, $689 million by Belgium, about $685 million by Spain and $683 million by the U.S." source Fox news. So this is business as usual in foreign policy. Just follow the money.

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  • 98. At 2:15pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    re: mucus
    Much Smarter Dub
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlbNfPI4a-o

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  • 99. At 3:11pm on 21 Jun 2009, frayedcat wrote:

    War...huh...what is it good for...absolutely nothing

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  • 100. At 3:13pm on 21 Jun 2009, steelpulse wrote:

    There you go. Obama still filling his team.

    Which brings me to my point.

    What do commentators add to the world? I realise Justin I am commentating on a commentators Blog but the question still stands? What do we commentators add to the world?

    I have done my dues on C-Span and just walked away scratching my head. A contributing editor to Harpers Magazine my nose is rarely outside of that particular publication lol calling the President Barack Hoover Obama. I think it is constructive criticism and that is fine. But why Hoover?

    It seems Herbert Hoover was human and despite a philanthropic CV that anybody but that particularly commentator would be proud of Hoover failed at some sort of final hurdle. I dont know. Not a history man really.

    20-20 hindsight commentating no?

    And what is it now President Obama hasnt done what is required in 170 days or so is it? To save the USA and all its populace from the one or two wrinkles facing him on entering the White House. How tardy of the new POTUS. lol

    Various planks of Government but hasnt done it all by himself? Force of personality eh?

    I think that is called dictatorship, Mr Baker - isnt it?

    But I can see a country I could like. The USA I mean.

    The Republican party needs new spokes people it seems. Or rather other than the present lot. I might agree to that if it was any of my beeswax. And Sky News again on view. No comment or criticism of Steve Scullys necktie! I wouldnt dare. I am not that fashion bloke the Beeb uses at Royal Ascot after all.

    I think it boils down to people who actually do stuff and are seen to do stuff. No offence anyone - I have seen one of the mentioned commentators actually do stuff on my TV.

    I aint done anything myself but then I do not expect anyone to listen to me as a result. And I aint been disappointed in that regard.

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  • 101. At 3:21pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 102. At 3:49pm on 21 Jun 2009, frayedcat wrote:

    #52sathgems are "they" "fat calves" or do "we" have sum vices ...GREED and maybe a few more, like HUBRIS...was hearing lots bout the need for a change in 'culture' and thinking in the US cross the board. Looking at our nutty shooters, like young cop killer in Pittsburgh 'Obama gonna take my guns away' doctor killer fer 'pro life', and museum killer in DC (not sure how he tied his issues to that one) - dont think any of em shooters were rich, but they r just as much a part of our 'problem' as the greedy idiot corporate monsters. Probly all just more evolution, and we probly still pretty low on the rung as a whole.

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  • 103. At 3:51pm on 21 Jun 2009, frayedcat wrote:

    Steelpulse whoah now, 'commentators' and a free press save the world from evil dictators dontcha know

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  • 104. At 3:54pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 105. At 4:05pm on 21 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #81. publiusdetroit: "The boots on the ground got the planes close enough to drop their bombs."

    You're missing the point - you had written "Wars are won by the boots on the ground." The Allied victory (i.e., how we won) was a direct result of the bombs, not US forces on the ground. If Germany had developed their rockets earlier, Britain might well have capitulated, not because of "boots on the ground", but because of greater terror inflicted from the skies. As it was, considerable damage was done to Britain (and Germany) by aerial bombardment. Although speculative, had the Nazis developed an atomic weapon and dropped it on London or any other target, my guess is that Britain would have surrendered without one German boot having set foot on British soil. The same, vice versa - it is not inconceivable that had the war in Europe been further prolonged, an atomic bomb dropped on a German metropolis would have had the same effect. This is not to ignore the work on the ground, but ultimate victory does not always rely upon it.

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  • 106. At 4:32pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Give "them" the Gas Face
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fBH_FZj8z8

    and the Gas Face Refill
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VadgicPAcT0

    Re : Poster Boy: N9ne Trey : Marcus O.D.B.II
    I drove past Brooklyn Zoo on the way to NYC and got on the wrong bridge and went down Flatbush Avenue and did a U-turn. I then drove straight across money making manhattan and headed over to the GWB to get to Teaneck NJ 07666, but at least I stayed on the right side.
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Miw6wghR2YA
    - Show quoted text -

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  • 107. At 5:11pm on 21 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    Publius, I share your views about Guadalcanal. Part of the problem
    with Japanese small unit tactics was that they had been honed fighting
    against the Chinese, who had very few professionally trained units.

    Frequently, a banzai charge by a Japanese company would rout a Chinese
    battalion or regiment. Not so with US troops whose live-fire training
    far exceeded Axis standards.

    But, how are you able to simulate a Japanese force with American TO&E
    on Guadalcanal? When I was a kid we used to play an Avalon Hill game
    on the campaign, but I didn't think that those were around anymore.

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  • 108. At 5:11pm on 21 Jun 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    GSYR;

    Ya just flew in and you wanna stay
    But ya oughta leave, you've been blown away
    If you write more jive you will get my lip
    Cause ya think you're cool but ya just ain't hip

    You're a wuss dude, you're a wuss dude

    I've clicked your links and I've heard your noise
    You'd be better off with your own home boys
    This is not your league, this is not your scene
    You'd be smart to go where your grass is green

    Outa site dude, outa site dude

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  • 109. At 5:19pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 110. At 5:46pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 111. At 6:27pm on 21 Jun 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    GSYR;

    You turned wrong once, If you know what's good
    You'll turn round again, this is not your hood
    If you swim with us then you best not bleed
    For the sharks do bite and the sharks do feed

    You're a chum dude, you're a chum dude

    The water's cold and the air is thin
    If you're not the best then you just can't win
    This is not your pond, this is not your lake
    If you stay round here it's your big mistake

    You're the bait dude, you're the bait dude

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  • 112. At 6:28pm on 21 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    107. Guns and Publius

    It might also have had something to do with over-confidence.
    After a string of victories culminating in the surrender of Singapore and the Philippines, the Japanese officer corps did not hold a very high opinion of any of their adversaries, American, British, or otherwise.

    Nothing like a well stoked belief in your own racial and cultural superiority to make you think you are immortal.

    And how quickly that must have changed in the face of 37 mm canister shot at close range. It must have been desperate. And awful.

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  • 113. At 6:56pm on 21 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    allmymarbles (#30), I could be wrong about this being Jack, but his "14..." screen name was definitely banned, because it was purged from another thread and he immediately came back under yet another alias to complain about it. You have a point about the style.

    "Resident loonies"? Who besides Jack is there? It is not cockamamie opinions that cause someone to be banned from this site; it is conduct. The rules are published and are pretty clear, I think.

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  • 114. At 7:06pm on 21 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #112, IF, if it had not been for John Browning, the English-speaking
    world would have been in one heck of a fix in WWII.

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  • 115. At 8:18pm on 21 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 114 gunsandreligion

    I think my father would back you up on that one, St. Gunny. He was a BAR rifleman. He always said the weight of the rifle and the ammunition seemed like a ton in the jungle heat, but he was happy to have his BAR in a firefight.

    Dad once asked his sergeant if he could swap his BAR for a Thompson Sub-machine gun he found. The sergeant told him to fire the Thompson on auto and see if he would rather have it instead of the BAR. Dad said one pull of the trigger on full auto convinced him the BAR was a superior weapon.

    InterestedForeigner-

    The Japanese arrogance was another large factor playing against them. They did not respect their enemy. They thought the Allies were weak and cowardly. They could never understand, nor adjust to the obvious fact that the Allied forces fought bravely. They violated a cardinal rule; Never under-estimate your enemy. Something they paid a heavy price for as the war went on and they still never acknowledged their enemy fought with valor. The Japanese Army clung to the misbegotten idea that the Allies would give up the fight and take a negotiated peace.

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  • 116. At 8:42pm on 21 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Gary # 113,
    You are doing sterling work in attempting to get another poster on the site banned. Not a direct attack. Just a gentle stab in the back. I am sure your supervisor will shortly promote you to the undermine and attack department soon.
    BTW. Sorry to see that Marcus could not join you on the shift as well. Keeping him on ice? His stand in is good, the team must have been up all night preparing, but he misses that Je ne sais quoi from the real thing. Please get him out of the freezer. It really is not the same without him.

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  • 117. At 9:10pm on 21 Jun 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    GSYR

    Your words don't show but they won't be missed
    Cause the mods are here so we don't get dissed
    You'll learn the rules if you want to play
    If you won't there's just one thing to say;

    "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney present during questioning. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you. Do you understand these rights?"

    Go seek your rights dude! Go seek your rights dude!

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  • 118. At 9:19pm on 21 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    113, Gary.

    If Jack really is "GoSeekYourRighs" then he has gone completely manic - comment, after comment, after comment - obscure snippits of stuff. Maybe lots of anger. Months ago he was coherent and we used to talk back and forth to each other. As to the "resident loonies" I was thinking of the legion, who write with hate and general nastiness. That seems to be OK. Everyone, except me, seems to be very clever about who has been banned and why. Which makes me wonder - what ever happened to Ed?

    The mods confuse me. One of my comments they disallowed, so I broke it into two parts and tried again. Both were accepted. I can't figure them out. My statement had not been objectionable.

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  • 119. At 9:25pm on 21 Jun 2009, hms_shannon wrote:

    Publius /Guns,
    How would you rate British arms in WW2 Lee Enfield 303 & bren gun ect.
    I tryed to ask this on ref 91 but got zapped ?.
    You guy are so lucky to be able to have a go with some of these weapons.
    I think the early spitfire was armed with 8/303 brownings that is why I am speaking English & not German or Russian!!!

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  • 120. At 9:29pm on 21 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    92, AmericanGrizzly.
    "Obama's foreign policy? American foreign policy has not changed at all from the Bush admin to the Obama admin."

    That is my fear. What happens in Iran will tell it all.

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  • 121. At 9:33pm on 21 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    92, AmericanGrizzly, further

    If the Iranian government is overthrown, that will be our work, not theirs. We have done it before and, I guess, we can do it again.

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  • 122. At 9:44pm on 21 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    119, I've never actually seen or fired a Bren gun. I don't think that
    we had anything between the BAR and the .30 cal browning M1919 LMG
    (light machine gun.)

    Of course, the Germans had their excellent MG-42, which we should have
    copied.

    I've never fired a Lee-Enfield, publius, have you? It sounds a lot like
    a Springfield.

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  • 123. At 9:52pm on 21 Jun 2009, american grizzly wrote:

    " President Obama is being very deliberate:certainly taking his time in filling posts. It is far better to have capable people who have been totally vetted for their expertise, suitability rather than having mediocre officials!"

    Yeah after a bunch of tax cheats, like Geitner (also a wall street insider that was part of the original mess). Sotomayor who belongs to feminist gender bias clubs, but can still make better decisions than a white man. Lets see, people who fly Air Force one around the Statue of Liberty, followed by fighter jets, putting New York citizens in a panic. That only cost the taxpayer $350,000 for that publicity stunt (must be a stimulus thing!) Yeah Obama better think for once on that point, are there any Democrats that haven't been caught cheating, or being liars? Maybe Nancy Pelosi, she blamed the CIA. She didn't lie even if it was on video! Yeah well how can u tell a politician is lieing? Obama has already done that with the Aig bonuses, outrage, ha, the outrage came after the public opinion came. Obama better be careful walking on the mines he's sown.

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  • 124. At 10:03pm on 21 Jun 2009, american grizzly wrote:

    Well I only have one question? When does Obama and his administration stop blaming Bush, and assume ownership and responsiblity for what they have now done. IE, the stimulus, tax, bankruptcy, and radicalization of the United States? Well things are going great, we are going on strike next week, gas is soaring, NK is planting seeds of destruction, the world is more unstable as we ship more money to the Republic of Georgia to back another dictator (but he is married to an American, golden parachute clause). The more things change the more they stay the same.
    Lyrics Kingston trio song "Their rioting in Africa, theres strife in Iran, the whole world is festering with unhappy souls, but we can be thankful and tranquil and proud for man has been endowed with a mushroom shaped cloud, and we know for certain, that some lucky day, someone will set the spark off, and we will all be blown away."
    That song is from the early 1960's, the words still ring true, little has changed. Austin Power's where is the love. Yeah danger is your middle name.

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  • 125. At 10:06pm on 21 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #113. Gary_A_Hill: "The rules are published and are pretty clear, I think."

    If the rules were followed precisely all the time, half the posts or more would not appear - MAII's rap for example, which is surprisingly well done. The problem is that censoring (for that is what it is) varies so; as Marbles points out, by splitting a post it becomes acceptable when the entire text was considered not to be. I've had the same thing myself. Even now, my post at #73 has not generated an e-mail to say that it has been removed or the reason for so doing.

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  • 126. At 10:07pm on 21 Jun 2009, american grizzly wrote:

    Iranians will find their own way, Obama can't take credit for that. Change has to come from within all these countries. External pressure has little effect until it becomes diplomacy by other means (war).

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  • 127. At 10:09pm on 21 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    Oh no, it's that sickness again. Like a moth to a flame, I can't resist a discussion of WWII. Nooooooooo!

    Dear Guns and Publius:

    I simply don't have anything like the knowledge of ordnance that you have, so I can't speak to some of these things. I recall, as a piece of trivia, that Clyde Barrow favored the BAR, and the last desperate act in his life was to try to bring his sawed off BAR to bear. 137(?) bullet holes in the car, or something.

    UK

    Well, the .303 Brownings weren't effective enough. That's why they went to 4 x .303 Browings + 2 x 20 mm Hispano-Suiza cannon in the "B" wings. The "C" wings would take either arrangement, and later marks commonly used 2 Brownings and two 20 mm cannon, the weight savings being considered more advantageous. The early cannon were drum fed and had a tendency to jam, not an optimal performance feature. The later belt-fed ones were better. All cannon operating aircraft have, of course, the distinctive blisters in the upper surfaces of the wings, and the forwardly protruding fairings along the wing leading edge.

    For comparison, in terms of weight of fire, consider the P-51, the P-47 D, the Beaufighter, or the fighter-bomber versions of the Mosquito with the chin pack. I seem to recall that the Thunderbolt had the heaviest weight of fire of any front line single engine aircraft in the war, but I could be wrong. Knowing this blog, there will be people here who will correct me if I'm wrong.

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  • 128. At 10:18pm on 21 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Hi Marcus sorry for the delay just went to the pictures to see transformers.
    Have you tried Anusol for your constipation and piles although my ex says not to talk to you as I don't know what kind of person you are and I should not be chatting to old perverts.

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  • 129. At 10:19pm on 21 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    125. David

    You thought so too, eh?
    I wondered if it was a sign that even Marcus gets bored sometimes.

    Justin will be back tomorrow, and maybe there will be a new thread.



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  • 130. At 10:26pm on 21 Jun 2009, hms_shannon wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 131. At 10:32pm on 21 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    126, AmericanG.
    "Iranians will find their own way, Obama can't take credit for that. Change has to come from within all these countries. External pressure has little effect until it becomes diplomacy by other means (war)."

    Oh, so wrong! The history of the Middle East is riddled with foreign intervention. In Iran, for instance, since the days of Reza Shah the West has overthrown the government of Iran three times, and forced an abdication once.

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  • 132. At 10:38pm on 21 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    126, AmericanG., further.

    As for the Arab states of the Middle East, it was the West that created Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, and later, Israel. No way was this related to self-determination. It is because of Western manipulation of the Middle East that America, the preent-day main manipulator, is so hated.

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  • 133. At 11:05pm on 21 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    130, ukwales.

    Ah, the mods have gotten you. I can't imagine you saying something objectionable. But that's OK. they get me too, and for reasons I never understand. It would be helpful (and reavealing) if they told us why we were being punished.

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  • 134. At 00:12am on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    allmymarbles (#118), I don't know why Ed left, but he may have just lost interest. His other pursuits are more rewarding, I expect.

    Ed

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  • 135. At 00:17am on 22 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    My censorship problems with the wonderful bbc was due to finding clean enough raps that I could drop

    Wu Tang Never Again (Aushwitz)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6wmVTa7bGc

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  • 136. At 00:24am on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    water... (#116), "You are doing sterling work in attempting to get another poster on the site banned."

    You don't know what you are talking about. I'm just an amused observer in this matter. My interest here is almost entirely in the substantive topics introduced by Mr. Webb, as is evident from a review of my posts. Why would you think any one contributer could get another banned, anyway? It is Jack's own bad behavior which is the cause of his problems with the moderators.

    I have a theory about the recent cleaning up of this forum, however. Mark Mardell is due to take over the North American beat in the late summer. Mr. Mardell seems to be a bit more serious than Mr. Webb, and his Euroblog is notable for its civilized discourse. I expect that Mr. Mardell took some time to review this forum to see what Americans (and those interested in American topics) are saying, and he was appalled at what he found. I'm hoping that he will come here intending to run a tight ship so that those of us who wish to discuss events in the news (the purpose of this blog) can do so without being harassed.

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  • 137. At 00:41am on 22 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Is it real son, is it really real son
    Let me know it's real son, if it's really real
    And when I was a lil stereo (stereo)
    I listened to some champion (champion)
    I always wondered (wondered)
    Will now I be the numba one? (Tical! hahaha)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8inztO0Xx8

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  • 138. At 00:42am on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    InterestedForeigner (#127) "I seem to recall that the Thunderbolt had the heaviest weight of fire of any front line single engine aircraft in the war, ... "

    Yes, the P-47 was heavyweight for air-to-ground attack in Europe. There is an intersting discussion of this aircraft in My War by Andy Rooney.

    An interesting fact Francophobes should be aware of is that the 20mm cannon used in the P-47, Spitfire, and many other WWII aircraft was from Hispano, a French company, and was a development by them of a Swiss design.

    Hispano 20mm cannon

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  • 139. At 00:48am on 22 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    136, Gary
    "I expect that Mr. Mardell took some time to review this forum to see what Americans (and those interested in American topics) are saying, and he was appalled at what he found. I'm hoping that he will come here intending to run a tight ship so that those of us who wish to discuss events in the news (the purpose of this blog) can do so without being harassed."

    What you are suggesting is a serious limitation on free speech. We should be allowed to offer opinions that cannot be found in the media. It is even worth tolerating the Legion.

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  • 140. At 00:57am on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    Correction. According to this description of the P-47, it carried eight 50-cal. machine guns, and no 20mm cannon.

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  • 141. At 01:02am on 22 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    136, Gary.

    Do you work for the BBC? You seem to know a lot about the moderators.

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  • 142. At 01:49am on 22 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    Gary, IF, for ground attack, I would want some of these.

    If you ever make it down to the Palm Springs air museum, be sure to look
    for the one they have on display. It's basically an aircraft designed
    around a cannon.

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  • 143. At 03:12am on 22 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    143. Guns
    Not the only aircraft to fire through the propeller hub (ME 109 probably the most famous) but probably the largest.

    The British mounted a 57 mm Molins gun in the belly of a Mosquito for low level anti-shipping strikes. Apparently the recoil was a bit of a problem.

    By the way, I'm assuming you've been to Wright Paterson. If you haven't, it is something not to be missed. There are the things you would expect, but also things you wouldn't expect: the pre-1920 collection is, perhaps not surprisingly, one of the best in the world. They also have a pristine ME 262 Swalbe, with a sectioned Junker-Jumo turbojet engine. The engine seems so basic and simple - single spool, multiple compressor section, simple combustion chamber, thrust control by a movable poppet that looks like it was designed around the time of the Spanish Inquisition, yet clearly simple and functional.

    Great Museum.

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  • 144. At 03:23am on 22 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #36. Gary_A_Hill wrote " I'm hoping that (Mr. Mardell) will come here intending to run a tight ship so that those of us who wish to discuss events in the news (the purpose of this blog) can do so without being harassed."

    The purpose of this blog was not to discuss "events in the news" but all things American; the Mission Statement which was originally at the head of this column has long been removed. Every aspect of American life, as seen through the eyes of the North American Editor, is up for discussion, whether it be grading different brands of ketchup or the grading of President Obama's performance. It is not necessary for the discussion to relate to anything "in the news". If it did, it would be very tedious indeed.

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  • 145. At 03:39am on 22 Jun 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:

    143, IF, I have not been to Wright Patterson. That's something that
    I'll have to add to my "bucket list." I have been to the Castle Air Museum
    near Merced, CA, which has a lot of interesting stuff, including an intact
    B-36. No stubby fighter, though.

    They also have a Vulcan bomber, just to keep the Brits happy.

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  • 146. At 04:30am on 22 Jun 2009, american grizzly wrote:

    "I will try repeating half of my comment. I read today that the North Korean missile did not have the capacity to reach Hawaii, and added that the media was making merry once again. "

    Didn't the French say the Maginot line was inpenetratable.......

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  • 147. At 04:55am on 22 Jun 2009, american grizzly wrote:

    comment by harrison as follows good points:
    "According to the IRS website, the total income tax paid by all individuals (including Bill Gates and Warren Buffet) and small businesses last year equaled a little over 1 trillion. the president's budget this year will run a 2 trillion DEFICIT. this does not include costs that will be passed on to us through "Cap and Trade" and the 39 mpg mandated car fleet averages. It does not include the auto bailouts which were considered "loans." As the economy declines, tax receipts are crashing. This $1.5 trillion for health care is insane. Once you start it, it can never be stopped. this is the fedreral government's equivalent of a sub prime mortgage, an enormous loan that can never be repaid and will be forclosed some day. Also leave the terrorists in Guantanamo. we don't want them here and paying $11 million each to some island to take them is ridiculous. " well said.

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  • 148. At 04:58am on 22 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    119 ukwales
    122 gunsandreligion

    The Springfield and Enfield are very similar. Easy even to confuse the two. I have had some time firing an Enfield. It's a fine weapon. That's why both of them stayed around so long. But by WWII they became obsolete due to rate of fire issues. The bolt-action mauser was held onto by both sides of the war because it was feared semi-automatic and automatic weapons wasted too much ammunition and required infantry to carry added weight to feed the rapid-repeating rifles. Really nothing more than a training issue with select fire capabilities.

    Ammunition may have been the biggest factor in the demise of the mauser-type rifle. Blow-back type cycling systems, and to some extent, recoil type cycling systems required a cleaner burning ammunition to seriously reduce fouling. The propellents were developed and light[er] weight semi-automatic and automatic rifles could now sustain prolonged firing during battle without fouling and needing a time-consuming cleaning at critical times. Improved propellents also increased muzzle volocity so that a smaller charge could pack a more powerful punch.

    Thus, enter the Bren (for the British). One of the stamped-metal "ugly" automatic rifles. Quick and cheap to produce. Ugly as sin because it was meant to be utilitarian and bare-boned to reduce production costs, rather than stylish. It can be said that it was rushed into production because of many frailties that showed up in use. Magazine receivers were weak and prone to unexpected wear when the soldier used the magazine as a (natural, though undesigned) hand grip during combat. There were a number of jamming problems. But they were light in weight (including ammunition) and threw a whole lot of lead down the tube and down range real fast. Not real accurate, but fast. They filled the need for higher rate of fire at a critical time. Lightness and short, over-all length made it a very manueverable and a good tool in urban-area fighting for clearing buildings and other confined spaces.

    There are a lot of issues concerning rate of fire. Far too numerous to go into here, except to mention that you do not see very many slow-rate-of-fire military weapons these days. The Bren met a need; well enough for the time. That in itself makes it an effective weapon.

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  • 149. At 06:42am on 22 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 105 David_Cunard

    "You're missing the point - you had written "Wars are won by the boots on the ground." The Allied victory (i.e., how we won) was a direct result of the bombs, not US forces on the ground."

    I do get your point. The Atomic bombs were the final straw that brought the Japanese government to the peace table. But the use of massive atomic/nuclear destruction has been a one-trick pony. The world was naive about the unexceptable collateral results, and continuing residual results from the use of atomic/nuclear force. Moral issues aside, nuclear weapons are as deadly to the attacker as they are to those being attacked. There is no way to control the contamination.

    Case in point: Depleted uranium weapons; the new "Agent Orange"

    Depleted Uranium Weapons (DPW) were used extensively thoughout Desert Storm (The Persian Gulf War). They were the main armor-piercing munition used against Iraqi forces during that war. The results of exposure to radiation from handling DPW munitions; deploying DPW munitions; exposure to air-born chemical agents contaminated with radiation as a result of the use of DPW munitions are showing up in Veterans Hospitals (and civilian hospitals) in ever increasing numbers.

    We are still killing our Desert Storm veterans with Blue-on-Blue attacks as a result of exposure to DPW weapons and the resulting residue of radiation they were exposed to with direct correlation to the use of these weapons. This is low-level radiation exposure. The result of our use of DPW munitions.

    Over five hundred thousand troops were deployed in Desert Storm. There is no accurate way of determining how many of them were exposed to DPWs, nor how many were exposed to air-born contamination until they start dying off from their exposure, and further "studies" are conducted...and the death toll is mounting. It can be passed on to intimates and offspring. (Hint: Gulf War Syndrome)

    Historic note: The use of chemical agents was outlawed after World War I because they killed, indiscriminately, on both sides with continued residual illnesses and deaths as a result of chemical agent use.

    What have we learned?

    Nothing. Launch your thermal-nuclear weapons to win...and die. Don't need boots on the ground.

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  • 150. At 09:25am on 22 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION: THE FIRST AMENDMENT

    IF DANCING IS OUTLAWED ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE DANCES

    Art has always, always, always been dirty; and violent, but thats for another bedtime story.

    Nothing wrong with foul language. The more important point is that the guns should be aimed up, not down.

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  • 151. At 09:58am on 22 Jun 2009, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #136

    by running a tight ship, do you mean more censorship by the moderators?

    There have been comments that because they may offend someone that are removed. If you go to the Iran discussion on the HYS the moderators will not allow you to call Khameni or Khomeni terrorists suporters.

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  • 152. At 10:11am on 22 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    Borderclash
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1nIge69QdI

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  • 153. At 10:13am on 22 Jun 2009, U14041653 wrote:

    My Weapon
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_MZ3QxsStQ

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  • 154. At 10:42am on 22 Jun 2009, hms_shannon wrote:

    Allmymarbles,Ref133.
    I got bounced off twice in less than a few hours,a record for me.
    no1/for talking about WW2 weapons?.
    no2/for taking the mick with MA for trying to hurt some one with his raps??

    I.F.GUNS&PUB

    Thanks fellas.

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  • 155. At 11:06am on 22 Jun 2009, SaintOne wrote:

    I'm not sure how they can remove some messages and let all these pointless youtube links get through...

    I think you need to be put on the naughty step Mr./Mrs Moderator

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  • 156. At 12:43pm on 22 Jun 2009, steelpulse wrote:

    Quote Post 103 "Steelpulse whoah now, 'commentators' and a free press save the world from evil dictators dontcha know" Unquote.

    Yup. These "commentators" all - and so called Free Press - are doing a bang up job in that regard too.

    Evil dictators are down to perhaps a few dozen now. The rest are cowering from all the comments made about them.

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  • 157. At 1:38pm on 22 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    Publius:

    I thought the Bren gun was designed in Czechoslovakia, specifically at Brno. The (relatively) low rate of fire was an advantage in terms of carrying ammunition. Compare, for example, the very high rate of fire of a German MG 42, and the amount of ammunition they must have consumed.

    You talk about boots-on-the-ground. I agree. In almost every conflict that is a critical determinant of success. I would also say that logistical ability is critical, and weapons or communications systems that consume a lot of resources, or require difficult to obtain parts (because they use exotic materials or highly specialized manufacturing processes), or require a disproportionate amount of maintenance, can be a great burden.

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  • 158. At 3:04pm on 22 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Gary_A_Hill # 136
    Speaking about being an "amused observer", that makes two of us, but I believe that we differ in that I am still very much a poor student intent on learning everything from his teachers and peers, and with that in mind perhaps take observation of each poster to a higher level than yourself.
    Despite your "what me" reaction, you then confirm it by again repeating names in negative mode, suggest ways of excluding others less equipped for the topic at hand, and finish the sentence with an open ended question about why any contributor would want to get another banned.
    Somehow a forked tongue and a lack of sincerity permeates your reply {in my eyes}.
    If Mark Mardell accepts any of your suggestions he is about to lead the blog down a very narrow path, which I read is rejected by others on this site. America is the name of the blog and so it's decisions and actions are inter-related with all around the world causing off shoot discussions to evolve here.
    I defy you to throw a pebble in a pond and make the ripples move solely in one specific direction.
    I am sorry you feel 'harassed'., but who is indirectly playing the brutus here delivering the unkindest cuts of them all. "For Brutus is an honourable man; So are they all, all honourable men". My backside.
    Perhaps this water-mark-antony is not a nice fellow either. But he has no intention of burying anybody today or tomorrow, and his lack of praise, is just his way of hoping to get you to rethink things.

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  • 159. At 3:21pm on 22 Jun 2009, Mark wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 160. At 4:42pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    water.. (#158) " ... you then confirm it by again ... "

    Confirm what? Are you calling me a liar? On what basis?

    I find it ironic that the "psychics" in this forum who can draw conclusions out of thin air are yet unable to understand what is written in plain words.

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  • 161. At 4:50pm on 22 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    154, ukwales.

    Is it possible they have a filter and a key word knocks you off? Are the moderators robots?

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  • 162. At 4:53pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    gunsandreligion (#142), that's an interesting airplane. I hadn't heard of it.

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  • 163. At 4:56pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    allmymarbles (#141) "Do you work for the BBC""

    No. Where on earth did you get that idea? I don't know anything about the moderators, who they are, or where they work. I am able, however, to discern something about how this forum works merely by reading and paying attention.

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  • 164. At 5:06pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    allmymarbles (#139) "What you are suggesting is a serious limitation on free speech."

    Not true. It is a common misperception that freedom of speech (or press) permits anyone to use another's press for their own purposes. The BBC owns this press, and they control its terms of use. They have published these, and from time to time they enforce them. Obviously there is a lot of latitude in how the rules are applied. We will just have to wait to see whether there is any change when Mardell takes over.

    Here is what A. J. Liebling had to say about freedom of the press.

    Anyone can have all the freedom of speech and press they could want by creating their own website.

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  • 165. At 5:57pm on 22 Jun 2009, U14045366 wrote:

    Re: Gary_A-Hill
    You still don't get it do you.. you played yourself
    25 113 134 136 139 160 163 169
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znaOsXsowa8

    (also check out icet o.g.)

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  • 166. At 6:06pm on 22 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #164. Gary_A_Hill: "Obviously there is a lot of latitude in how the rules are applied. We will just have to wait to see whether there is any change when Mardell takes over."

    Do you honestly believe that either Justin or his successor actually read all that is posted on their blogs? I can't imagine that they do, there are more things on their plate than blogging. This column is almost incidental to their work for BBC television - after all, the principal business of the BBC is broadcasting, not blogging. If Justin did read everything, then there might be more quotes from posters by him, which have disappeared in recent months. Rather like the British Civil Service, it is the Mods who control the game, not the presumptive writer.

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  • 167. At 6:09pm on 22 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    146 Grizzly

    ... and they were right.

    As the French will readily tell you, la ligne Maginot, was never breached by the Germans. It worked perfectly.

    Ah, les Bosches, you cannot trust zem, zey do not play by ze rules. Zey wair not suppozed to go around ze end. Eef zey do not cheat, we win. Mais, c'est la guerre. Vive la France!

    The line continued to be operated by the French Army until 1966.
    You can still go down in the tunnels in many of the fortress complexes along the line. The tunnels run for miles. On a hot Summer day it is lovely and cool down in the tunnels. Given their proximity to the Champagne district, one might have expected the French to start storing wine down there before now, but perhaps that is still a closely guarded state secret.

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  • 168. At 6:40pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    David_Cunard (#166) "Do you honestly believe that either Justin or his successor actually read all that is posted on their blogs?"

    No, and I did not say that they do.

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  • 169. At 7:39pm on 22 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #168. Gary_A_Hill:
    "David_Cunard (#166) "Do you honestly believe that either Justin or his successor actually read all that is posted on their blogs?"

    No, and I did not say that they do."

    But you had written "We will just have to wait to see whether there is any change when Mardell takes over." The implication is that Mr Mardell, having read the posts, will have some direct influence on what appears here. If he's anything like Justin, he'll post a topic and let it take its own course. Which others will supervise and "moderate".

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  • 170. At 8:03pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    David, we know that Mr. Webb reads some of the comments, because he has said so and he occasionally links to them. Thar Mr. Mardell does also is merely a supposition on my part, but not an unreasonable one, I think.

    The extent to which the blogger can influence moderation is likewise a mere supposition. Although some here seem to think, for reasons beyond my ken, that I am a BBC insider, I am merely guessing. Why would you think that the blogger does not have any interest in, and influence on, the moderation? How does Mr. Mardell manage to have generally civilized discussion in the comments on his European blog?

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  • 171. At 8:05pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    David_Cunard (#169) "If he's anything like Justin ... "

    However he's not much like Mr. Webb at all, an observation I have made previously.

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  • 172. At 8:14pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    We now know that Mr. Mardell reads the comments to his Euroblog at least occasionally:

    "UPDATE: Thanks for your comments. I have replied to some of them here." Mark Mardell in his June 13, 2007 posting.

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  • 173. At 8:19pm on 22 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Gary_A_Hill # 160,
    Gary,
    From my understanding of the English language there is no accusation of lying intended in what was written at 158. Speaking with a forked tongue and lack of sincerity has more to do with showing one face to the world but having a different attitude in your head and your heart. You play both soft cop and hard cop to gain somebodies confidence, only to remove the chair from beneath them. I am sure he is quite capable of achieving this on his own, without your added interference. This hopefully explains my "lack of understanding" but not yours.
    What is so threatening in the replies from the present innocuous poster on the blog, though calling him present is probably exaggerating the fact, noticing now the U and number by his name?. Does the U mean undesirable, or even U boat, look out , torpedoes expected here? Why do you and others feel it necessary to rub salt in open wounds of any suffering here? Is he rocking your boat so dangerously?.
    I am sick and tired of the tag-team approach against any on the blog. Your hang-up and that of others is to mention his sign-in name/ names wherever possible, and my hang-up is to defend him. That said I would do, and have done the same for another poster on the blog, [the real one], despite disagreeing with 95% of his input and will defend his right to express his views however distorted, with my last breath. Loads of rope here for those that need it.
    Please don't start throwing the classical playbook moves my way. "Psychic" or psychological accusations don't wash in the water that flows here. Besides you are almost plagurising the words of the one poster I gave up on. Despite a reasonably balanced discussion that ended in impasse, you too saw it fit to jump to his defence. I believe I answered your reply then to the best of my ability as I am trying to do now.
    If it is any consolation, I am yet to give up on you.
    Thanks for the help in corresponding and improving my English. Did you notice the new big words? My spelling still sucks but then Rome was not built in a day.
    wma

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  • 174. At 8:35pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    watermanaquarius (#173) "Why do you and others feel it necessary to rub salt in open wounds of any suffering here?"

    If you will review a reasonably large sample of my posts, you will find that I do relatively little of that, by the standards of many people who post here.

    As for your first paragraph, I just don't know what you mean at all. I have said before that I am on nobody's side but my own. If some people like some things that I write and dislike others, and can't deal with the dissonance, that's their problem. I try to be as straightforward as I can be in communicating a thought, so I don't buy your accusation of "insincerity" at all. People are complex and issues are complex. I don't oversimplify things, so some simple-minded people here get confused. That's just too bad. Not my problem.

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  • 175. At 8:38pm on 22 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    watermanaquarius (#173) "Thanks for the help in corresponding and improving my English."

    You're welcome. There's nothing personal in any disagreements we have had.

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  • 176. At 9:11pm on 22 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    waterman, we've reached the end of a page in the new kitchen. You have to click on "Newer." Your posts are there. But when you post, you get bounced back to the first page.

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  • 177. At 9:12pm on 22 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Gary,
    Nothing simple about this mind functioning here.
    That is one of it's major problems.
    Enjoy the riddling. Just hate the piddling.

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  • 178. At 10:23pm on 22 Jun 2009, hms_shannon wrote:

    Ref 161,allmymarbles.
    " are the mods robots"

    I honestly do not know.Just had two officious type e mails warning me to behave.Just like being back at school all thoes years ago.At least they cant premote my back side to sargent with immediate effect as used to happen often in thoes days.
    1 stripe, lance coporal, not good.
    2 stripes, coporal, even worst.
    3 stripes, sargent,bad day.

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  • 179. At 10:25pm on 22 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    169, David.
    "The implication is that Mr Mardell, having read the posts, will have some direct influence on what appears here. If he's anything like Justin, he'll post a topic and let it take its own course. Which others will supervise and 'moderate'"

    As editor, he may make changes in policy, which would be passed on to the moderators. He doesn't have to read every comment.

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  • 180. At 11:10pm on 22 Jun 2009, WELLHELLO111 wrote:

    "And above all a reminder that this administration is not yet fully staffed! "

    If Bush had not fully staffed his administration after 6 months Mr Webb/the BBC would have used it as an example of his incompetence and not taking his job seriously.

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  • 181. At 11:39pm on 22 Jun 2009, saintDominick wrote:

    Ref 180, WellHello

    The Bush Administration did a very good job at filling Cabinet and top advisory positions, but that was not the case for sub-cabinet positions similar to those mentioned by Justin.

    According to the Brookings Institutions Presidential Appointee Initiative (PAI) the Bush Administration was slower than previous administration in filling key sub-cabinet positions. Of the 485 positions tracked by PAI, only 29 appointees were confirmed at the 100-day point of the Bush Administration, and by the end of August 2001, only 227 had been confirmed and 144 of the other positions still had no one nominated to fill them. Brookings found that it took an average of 8.7 months to move an appointee through the Senate confirmation process.

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  • 182. At 01:37am on 23 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #179. allmymarbles: "As editor, (Mardell) may make changes in policy, which would be passed on to the moderators. He doesn't have to read every comment."

    Changes in policy? What policy is there now? The Moderation here appears to vary from hour-to-hour, shift-to-shift, relying on the whims of the BBC reader or filter. No doubt Mr Mardell will not read every comment in addition to being the BBC's eye on America. We can but hope that he won't judge everything from the narrow confines of Washington DC with the occasional foray to the hinterlands, but will acquaint himself more fully with life elsewhere. A lengthy stay in the Golden State, the most populous of all, might provide a different take on attitudes and political opinion than that found in the Capital and Capitol.

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  • 183. At 01:42am on 23 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    David, what I you suggesting? I'm sure that Justin visited Montana, once. Why then go to California?

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  • 184. At 02:36am on 23 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    78. At 10:23pm on 22 Jun 2009, ukwales wrote:

    "I honestly do not know.Just had two officious type e mails warning me to behave.Just like being back at school all thoes years ago."

    No poetry in their souls. A lot of very pros(e)aic people about.

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  • 185. At 03:03am on 23 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Squirrel! You're back! Have you gone to the galley yet? There's a message for you at 466.

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  • 186. At 04:01am on 23 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    #183. seanspa: "I'm sure that Justin visited Montana, once. Why then go to California?"

    Why indeed! Nice to see the British sense of humour is intact.

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  • 187. At 04:01am on 23 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:

    178, ukwales.
    "Just had two officious type e mails warning me to behave."

    From the BBC mods? I have had stuff removed, but only received the usual form comment. No warnings.

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  • 188. At 05:12am on 23 Jun 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    "186. At 04:01am on 23 Jun 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
    #183. seanspa: "I'm sure that Justin visited Montana, once. Why then go to California?"

    Why indeed! Nice to see the British sense of humour is intact."

    I've been to the loo once. In fact more than once. Why then go to Britain? :-)

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  • 189. At 05:37am on 23 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 190. At 05:53am on 23 Jun 2009, U14041614 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 191. At 05:54am on 23 Jun 2009, U14041614 wrote:

    PS gary you got it all wrong. keep going.
    Space shuttle could have done with an extra O ring.

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  • 192. At 06:01am on 23 Jun 2009, David Cunard wrote:

    The above comment at #189 because the moderator/s on duty this morning (BST) appear to have no sense of humour with regard to MAII being to the loo. I despair!

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  • 193. At 06:03am on 23 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    David, it's nice to see that marcus doesn't get humour. Calling Montana a toilet. Whatever next. He's very un-american.

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  • 194. At 1:59pm on 23 Jun 2009, strontiumdog wrote:

    RE: 60. At 7:59pm on 20 Jun 2009, allmymarbles wrote:
    59, guns.

    It is not just a matter of geographical size, but also of population. Where would Germany have gotten enough fighting men to occupy and control the vastness of America and Russia? Sure they could have conscripted men from the countries they had already conquered, but that is very chancey.

    Size and population, hasn't always stopped countries being being occupied and pacified.
    Britain's 200 hundred year rule over India is an example.
    The Greeks and Romans were also pretty good at it,
    The Mongols managed to control China for 400 years.
    The Tartar's occupied most of Russia and made it to the gates of Austria.
    A modern example is Russia's creation of the Soviet Union, (through brutal force) and probably the most successful example was the European occupation and control of North and South America.

    As ''Guns'' has stated it's not just about brute force, ''creepage (yard by yard)'' ''divide and rule'' and good old fashioned ethnic cleansing has always had a part to play, plus hegemony has always been a major factor.

    Also, conscripting troops from occupied countries has been the back bone of most invasions and occupations.. There would of been plenty of Americans who would of fought on Germanys side, just as there were Europeans in Europe. Hitler set up foreign units in every country he captured, and the large German/American population in the states sent more than a handful of their sons back to defend the Fatherland.

    Usually the first words of every invader are "You are now liberated"


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  • 195. At 2:45pm on 23 Jun 2009, U14041614 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 196. At 2:46pm on 23 Jun 2009, U14041614 wrote:

    Of course if the mods think I'm Me they better start proving it.
    Just because I say I am doesn't make it true.

    OHH wait I'm the one that is honest.

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  • 197. At 3:11pm on 23 Jun 2009, U14041614 wrote:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8115147.stm Gotta laugh .

    Oh Gary you say " I MAY be wrong"

    Yes and that is the wrong phrase
    "most likely I am wrong"
    "more than likely I am wrong"
    "more often than not I am wrong"
    "Almost certainly I am wrong"
    "as usual I am wrong"

    All of these would be more correct to use.
    There is very little May in it with yuo(though I supose technically that does give you an opt out)

    As my other comment is struck.
    Is it not bigoted and a bit mob mentality to jump so eagerly on the wagon. The same wagon that you have spent so much effort saying should not be there.


    Not content with your efforts you run around tarring others and shouting ' get them"

    "I think he's a witch"


    Then pretend to be the pillar of the community.

    Adolf Hitler tried that.
    He did better than you at seeming smart .Keep up the work. Keep vigilant.
    Keep your eyes open.Watch the front door.

    Oh and make sure your back door is open for legion.

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  • 198. At 00:07am on 24 Jun 2009, U14041614 wrote:

    "It's is Jack's own bad behavior which is the cause of his problems with the moderators."

    Gary really?
    so saying Israel is a Jewish state is a moddable offence?
    or breaks the house rules?
    No it doesn't.

    Banned for trying to get a true comment posted.One that you disagreed with and disagreed was important, despite the fact that 3 days later a peace deal was sidelined over them very words.

    The Mods were not there to mod out truth to allow lies to stand.

    But you would rather that and damn the messenger.

    Gary you regret you have little understanding of logic. you want to play the all offended but never once admitted or conceded a point. (I did to you but never in return) not even saying "yes it is a jewish state(BTW I don't make a value judgement on that)).

    Yet you seem to think you were polite.

    You've been like that for a long time. never changed and so you deserve some name calling.
    and certainly some Harassment .


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  • 199. At 03:23am on 24 Jun 2009, U14046890 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 200. At 04:48am on 24 Jun 2009, U14046890 wrote:

    7,6,5,4,3,2,1 Blow The Whistle

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgK6fFIQZbE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPdBh7p0dBQ

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  • 201. At 05:31am on 24 Jun 2009, U14041614 wrote:

    Mr militant. respect

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  • 202. At 07:01am on 24 Jun 2009, U14041614 wrote:

    Gary just to let you know I do not think you are MATT or legion. I do think you are thick as two short planks.

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  • 203. At 08:47am on 24 Jun 2009, U14046890 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

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