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How McCain wins

Justin Webb | 22:34 UK time, Thursday, 9 October 2008

On the subject of McCain winning - here, according to Byron York of the conservative magazine the National Review, is how he does it...

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Comments

  • 1. At 10:55pm on 09 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:



    Well, maybe - but its not going to plan at the moment is it ?

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  • 2. At 10:57pm on 09 Oct 2008, moderate_observer wrote:

    on reading this article:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/10/rothenberg_warns_of_gop_bloodb.html


    i came accross this opinion , that really is the sentiment shared by many of the detractors of the republican party.


    "

    We have been hearing since Reagan that "Government is the problem"; that government should get "out of the way"; that the private sector can always do it better and cheaper.

    If one has this philosophy then it is natural to undermine government; to get it "out of the way". Conservatives since Reagan have systematically undermined the efficacy of the government by gutting any agency which it views as "standing in the way".

    You appoint "your guys" no matter how incompetent; you oust the professionals; you gut their budgets. You oppose anything which might "impede" the private sector corporations - consumer protections; food inspections; road and bridge inspection; financial regulations.

    You politicize the Justice Department, so that it finds nothing, even torture, objectionable. Anti-trust enforcement becomes non-existent.

    You never lift a voice or use the bully pulpit against corporations shipping jobs wholesale overseas. Our retailers buy their inventory from China and you ship them our money, never insisting that China adjust its foreign exchange rate. Then you borrow the money back from China to plug our budget deficit, caused by corporate tax cuts and cuts for the top 1% of Americans. You ship the borrowed money to our oil suppliers and oppose any effort to reduce dependency by seeking alternative renewable sources of fuel. After all, you're an oil man.

    You start an unnecessary war costing hundreds of billions of dollars much of it going to favored construction companies doing work shoddy enough to electrocute ten soldiers in their showers. Hired thugs masquerading as "security details" rake in more of the money, answering to no one. You "rebuild" Iraq (which we never had to destroy anyway) while the Iraqis have almost $80 billion in the bank.

    You shred the Constitution, abridge habeas corpus. You get elected by selling your "values" while robbing the country blind. You never talk about economics. You always scare the voters with the next bogeyman around the corner. When the media disagrees with you, you attack it as "unfair" with "liberal bias". You start your own propaganda media outlets that parrot the party line.

    You take the country into a permanent state of war with a volunteer army - a state so permanent no one even notices it anymore as they go to the mall. You ask nothing from them but their acquiescence. "Just go shopping folks!"

    You want to spend a trillion dollars to rescue the financial sector, run up a half a trillion dollar budget deficit and still spew nonsense about "small government, deregulation and lower taxes".

    We are witnessing the impoverishment of America. ....and this Grand Old Party (remember it?) wants four more years.

    Posted by: toritto | October 9, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

    "

    the republican party needs to reform itself because they are on the verge of alienating many on their current course.

    unfortunately, if mccain wins and the country has 4 more years of republican leadership, it could be the nail in the coffin for the republican party.

    for strong democrats, they may like that but they may not like the price they would have to pay for it.

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  • 3. At 11:02pm on 09 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    Amazing insights from Byron York!

    Alternatively Obama could contract the ebola virus, develop crippling stage fright or be found trying to sell drugs and rob a bank.

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  • 4. At 11:04pm on 09 Oct 2008, Mark wrote:

    And here is the problem with that analysis.

    First, between now and the election a large number of firms will have to make financial reports and the market will remain at best wobbly. At worst, it has about 2000 points still to go. Remember, back in 1987, the US GDP was 4.6 billion and the Dow crashed 22% when it hit 2800; the US economy is now 14.3 billion, and the size of the corporate sector is about the same: even if we assume that 2500 was fair value back then, that would imply a fair value Dow now of 77-7800, and the market always overshoots.

    Second, McCain is being anything but consistent: the Obama attack that he is erratic has some real substance.

    Third, I think US voters are getting comfortable with Obama's calm rational approach to things, and what is more many desire that.

    The analysis therefore, turned round, simply suggests that there is no real way McCain can win ....

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  • 5. At 11:13pm on 09 Oct 2008, justcorbly wrote:

    Just more evidence that the folks at the National Review are deluded. If they'd been around after Lee surrendered at Appomattox they wouod have been conjuring fantasies of how the Confederacy could still win. (And make no mistake about which side the NR would have been on in the Civil War.)

    McCain has not been "steady " during this race. The economy is not going to turn around in the next three weeks.

    McCain's only hope (and it's forlorn) is to capitalize on the Republican Party's open door policy to bigots, wackos and xenophobes.

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  • 6. At 11:20pm on 09 Oct 2008, moderate_observer wrote:

    another interesting post:

    from national review about mccains negative campaigning.

    http://frum.nationalreview.com/

    "We conservatives are sending a powerful, inadvertent message with this negative campaign against Barack Obama's associations and former associations: that we lack a positive agenda of our own and that we don’t care about the economic issues that are worrying American voters.
    "

    also makes u worry what the atmosphere in the country will be if McCain loses.

    "Those who press this Ayers line of attack are whipping Republicans and conservatives into a fury that is going to be very hard to calm after November. Is it really wise to send conservatives into opposition in a mood of disdain and fury for a man who may well be the next president of the United States, incidentally the first African-American president? Anger is a very bad political adviser. It can isolate us and push us to the extremes at exactly the moment when we ought to be rebuilding, rethinking, regrouping and recruiting.

    "

    im starting to worry about what will happen if the repubs. lose, it will be a very toxic atmosphere.

    extra security detail needed for obama?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E

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  • 7. At 11:36pm on 09 Oct 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    Sure IF the economy recovers, and IF Palin doesn't gve another interview, and IF Mcain stops coming across as a cranky grandpa, and IF all those newly registered voters have a collective nervous breakdown and vote Republican then sure McCain could win.
    Cone on Justin embrace the reality, check out www.fivethirtyeight.com and check the cold hard numbers.

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  • 8. At 11:38pm on 09 Oct 2008, ljbella wrote:

    Sara Palin is McCain's Achilles heal. She is extremely empty but tries to make up for it by being ultra judgmental. By the very act of selecting Palin for VP, McCain has trivialized himself beyond repair. He actually has now found himself in the roll of celebrity maker. And has created the very "Paris Hilton/Brittany Spears" type persona that he supposedly so distains and tried to portray Obama as being.

    To make matters worse, those huge crowds Sara Palin is drawing are for the most part only there to ogle at the latest big celebrity and couldn't care less about politics. I wouldn't be surprised if at least half the crowds she is getting aren't even registered voters.

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  • 9. At 11:38pm on 09 Oct 2008, Mark wrote:

    And here is another reason why Byron's theory does not work ...

    Obama has just bought 30 minutes apiece on NBC and CBS for October 29 and is negotiating with Fox: that is about 5-6 million a shot, and I'm sure he'll also aim for CNN and ABC if he can. From what I've just seen in blog comments that has just re-energised his funding base even more: McCain cannot hope to communicate at length, in such a way, directly with the American people. I'm sure it will be a clever mix of clips and direct comment, and compelling viewing: so how much did he raise in September ....

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  • 10. At 11:59pm on 09 Oct 2008, LongStrangeTrip wrote:

    To quote an oft used B-movie line, "It sounds crazy enough to work." It's the kind of hackneyed drama that many journalists reach for to find easy story hooks. Present company excepted. ;)

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  • 11. At 00:01am on 10 Oct 2008, 1european wrote:

    Gosh, what "message" is he talking about? Gimme a break...

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  • 12. At 00:05am on 10 Oct 2008, mike wrote:

    Another interesting facet of McCain winning is he could be a President with no control over Congress and the House. It is perfectly possible that Democrats could have a Congressional majority of 60, which means it would be difficult for McCain to get much done.
    With all that is going wrong, it wouldn't be a bad election for the Republicans to lose. They could get on with some purging of the old guard and let some younger Republicans emerge as a leaders. This is what the Republicans need right now, they seem too stale and stuck in old rhetoric.

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  • 13. At 00:16am on 10 Oct 2008, Risforme wrote:

    If John McCain wins, what will he have won? Right now his campaign is extremely divisive he's going for a 50.01% win and if he won the country would be even more divided.

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  • 14. At 00:24am on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    Stick a fork in me because I would consider myself so very DONE if McCain/Palin wins this election.

    I would not know what to do, at my age, maybe euthanasia since I doubt any other country would let me immigrate.

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  • 15. At 00:29am on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    The American people wake up from the Obama delusion.

    And realize this man is no more qualified than Sarah Palin

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  • 16. At 00:31am on 10 Oct 2008, OldSouth wrote:

    The more we get to know BHO, the more unsettled we are.

    That, in the final analysis, is the heart of the matter.

    I am no great fan of McCain, but we (and I mean the world at large) cannot afford to have Obama at the helm of the United States.

    McCain is not Bush, and even the Dems know it, even as they scream to the contrary. He is one tough character, and we will need one. He is a military leader, and we unfortunately, will need one.

    He has many more rational people around him than BHO, and will be able to recruit more. Obama is surrounded by the Old Leftist Guard, like Pelosi and Reid, and young Kool-Aid drinkers who view him as a demi-god.

    What happens when he disillusions those young people, when they see him for who he is?

    And, by the way--why won't he produce an official birth certificate from Hawaii, and end that particular controversy? All he need do is get a few official copies, and hand them over to credible journalists from all shades of opinion. Presto, lawsuit goes away, that question subsides, and people's confidence in him is increased.

    Why won't he do that?

    It just doesn't add up...

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  • 17. At 00:40am on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    Justin,

    Alternatively, a five point plan:

    - Unleash the Mrs. Have her lash out that the other side is fighting the dirtiest campaign ever (when most fact checking organizations show that yours is dirtier

    - Have your warm up spokesmen (and women) use BHO's middle name, 'Hussein', when warming up the crowd. After all pother nasty people have that name. This is particularly effective if you can have someone yell 'kill him' while you are on stage and the media are filming

    - Blame the media for being unfair. After all, they never did fact checks and broadcast the results last time around

    - Allow the canmeras into a town hall meeting where your supportersbeg you to go after Obama's character more. If only you would talk about Rev Wright everyone will see how nasty 'that one' is. Ignore the economy, focus on character assassination. This is especially effectove when you have a running mate scared to take an interview accusing the media of not asking the Senator from Illinois challenging questions about his past. Before being bundled into a limo in case she opens her mouth in front of a mic

    - Offer Cindy to settle it in a no holds barred smack down pay per view wrestling competition to be held at Madison Square Gardens, proceeds to go to the deficit

    Humbly Yours,

    Helpful Sam

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  • 18. At 01:10am on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    wow so thats what john aaa looks like


    yea mc cain can wait till the economy improves to win.



    like the learned fellow says
    unlikely.
    I'm going to go withdraw my meager earnings right away just to give confidence to the bankers.

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  • 19. At 01:26am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Fellow prisoners,

    I'll be quick, because I see the moderator team has been turned over to biblical tortoises again, and by the time this will appear I hope to be asleep.

    If the economy improves. . .(in less than four weeks), if there's a return of confidence . . .(in less than four weeks), if McCain stays steady . . .(for as long as four weeks) . . .and

    . . .if none of those things happen, my fellow prisoners, and still people wonder ""what do we really know about Obama" instead of "what kind of idiot is this McCain," then my photo of pigs flying past my window will not turn out to be unique after all. . .

    I think that's the first time I've heard anyone give voice in a tone I can only describe as 'despairing optimism'.

    (With respect to MarkfromOxford, whose more academic analysis illuminated this prisoner's cell.)

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  • 20. At 01:34am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    "Or Obama could. . . be found trying to . . . rob a bank." Simon21 wrote.

    Or much worse, discovered owning one?

    (Idea courtesy of Berthold Brecht.)

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  • 21. At 01:57am on 10 Oct 2008, pottspointer wrote:

    How McCain wins? ...sounds like the wishful thinking of a deluded soul who has just missed the last few weeks of the campaign and is still fervently hoping and praying and hoping whilst keeping their fingers and toes crossed and praying that the economy miraculously turns around and that somehow McCain has a message - what message? it's fear! fear! fear! what McCain doesn't realise is that people are afraid but they are not afraid of the stuff he wants them to be afraid of - there's not enough fear to accommodate for the rantings and ravings of an old man who increasingly comes across as cross, angry, unstable, dishonorable, bitter and worse of all - what was with the scary whispering of answers in the second debate - there is something to be afraid of people...it's an incarnation of the bogeyman and his name is McCain and he's accompanied by the screeching banshee that is Sarah Palin!

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  • 22. At 02:05am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Fellow prisoners,

    It's just occurred to me, reading it's been noticed certain contributors of a right-ish persuasion appear to have abandoned us: could they have been driven away by the jokes?

    If so, all Obama has to do to clinch it is buy about five minutes on ABC, NBC and MTV and tell some good 'uns.

    Could be a lot cheaper and more effective than another boring 30-minute 'documentary'.

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  • 23. At 02:08am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Sam (my fellow prisoner) I think we need a few more jokes . . .

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  • 24. At 02:11am on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #14

    Aqua,

    Kinky stuff? Alright, I'm in for that too.

    Fetishist Sam

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  • 25. At 02:12am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    There is a big rush to get people to use absentee ballots and vote eary. This is a plus for Obama should there be an economic reversal. McCain is apparently also pushing for early voting, but I can't see the advantage to him.

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  • 26. At 02:17am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    aquarizonagal wrote:

    "if McCain/Palin wins this election. I would not know what to do, at my age, maybe euthanasia since I doubt any other country would let me immigrate."

    Don't despair. I don't think Britain has any age restrictions. You might have to bring your pension, so you could show you weren't going to be "a charge on the State' . . .

    Oh. Yes. Umm. Well, er, sorry. No, look, there's got to be a way round that . . .

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  • 27. At 02:17am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    22, british-ish.

    "It's just occurred to me, reading it's been noticed certain contributors of a right-ish persuasion appear to have abandoned us: could they have been driven away by the jokes?"

    Come back, come back! You are our straight men/women.

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  • 28. At 02:17am on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #23

    Ish-ish,

    So long as you don't start to call me 'Terry'.

    Hostage Sam

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  • 29. At 02:19am on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #25

    On a serious note, Marby, that is true. I have mine and plan to mail it in Saturday.

    The NRA endorsed McCain Palin today. That will make me change my mind then.

    Mebbe not.

    Voter Sam

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  • 30. At 02:20am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    22, british-ish.

    Alternatively we could make fun of each other. There's lots of material there.

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  • 31. At 02:22am on 10 Oct 2008, pottspointer wrote:

    I agree with #3 Simon 21 ...I think Obama has ways to go before he could come anywhere close to being dismissed by a rational public.

    ...I personally think he would have to rip open his shirt, crap in his pants and start taking crack on live TV for him to fall to the low bar set by one Ms Palin when interviewed by Couric.

    My favourite part of the Palin interview....if I were blind would be the following ...

    (this is in response to how Alaska's proximity to Russia gives Palin credibility in Foreign Relations - I've transcribed the following with some helpful notes for your benefit)

    "...it's very important, it's very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia... as Putin rears his head and er... er...comes into the air-space of the United States of America ... where do they go? Where do they go? (she asked rhetorically) ..it's Alaska, it's just over the border (she said earnestly, raising her voice up a tempo...in case any one was in doubt of Russia's proximity to the US) ...it is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia ...because they are right there, right next to our state"

    ...but since I'm not blind ....my favourite part would have to be the hand gesture (delicately twirling in a sideways and then upward spiral) to show how Putin would be rearing his head into aerospace - that, "my friends" .... was the funniest part of the interview!

    Any candidate doing a version of interpretative dance to demonstrate foreign policy credibility needs to be dismissed without courtesy of a reason!

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  • 32. At 02:31am on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#24Samtyler1969

    You are much too young for my so depressing thoughts. I think that I have lived too long and am a very bad example for all of you younger people.

    Sorry. I am trying to hold on to my sense of the absurd, but it is not easy.

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  • 33. At 02:31am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Because I can't sleep. I've just heard the American Editor of The Economist saying on the World Service that things are now looking so bad that he wouldn't be surprised if the US soon had to do the same as Britain and effectively nationalise the banks.

    And that (as I suggested only hours ago, would make the now obviously useless 700 billion dollar bailout look like the first contribution on the collecting plate at a southern Baptist church on a quiet Sunday . . .

    I don't want to repeat the rest of the late business news, because I'm actually shocked. "Shares in Ford and GM are now effectively worthless" for example. You don't want to hear the rest.

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  • 34. At 02:33am on 10 Oct 2008, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    I heard McCain on the radio this afternoon, sputtering in anger about "socialists taking over the country." It was bizarre. I've been watching presidential elections since 1956 and I've never heard a candidate for president rant like this. I doubt if many listeners will focus on the message, unless they are themselves already of that mindset. I think they will worry about his seeming lack of control. We have heard that McCain is a loose cannon, and if this illustrates it to undecided voters, he's toast.

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  • 35. At 02:42am on 10 Oct 2008, ssembonge wrote:

    Elections are on November 4th this year. What improvement of the economy is he talking about?

    Webb, you are still on my financial analysis do not read list.

    Like McCain, you guys don't just get it.

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  • 36. At 02:45am on 10 Oct 2008, functor wrote:

    pathetic!!!

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  • 37. At 02:48am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    32: aquarizonagal,

    Just at the moment I have my own list of people who have obviously lived too long for any good they have done or will do. One is a mere 44. You aren't on it.

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  • 38. At 02:55am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    35: I have a faint feeling I might regret asking, but who are "you guys" and what don't they get like McCain doesn't?

    (I think I have managed better grammar than that occasionally, but it's late.)

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  • 39. At 02:57am on 10 Oct 2008, 1european wrote:

    Just one more thought: one of the things we do know about Obama is that he's clearly far more intelligent than either of the other side (well, that's supposing that there's a measure of that sort that could be applied to the second of the other side).
    Gosh, I have an engineering degree, a PhD, and am a Professor in a great university, and I am difficult to be impressed. But Obama, being exactly my age, really does impress me.

    Now that actually might be a problem for Obama, because as the last two elections have clearly shown, a dangerously significant part of the American electorate clearly craves for the most dim-witted guy/gal in town to occupy the White House.
    So... watch out, Obama: couldn't you just a few times look completely idiotic and wink to the camera? If you managed to look even more stupid than the second of the other side, you might make a landslide, winning over even those who think that not reading any paper is a plus!

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  • 40. At 02:57am on 10 Oct 2008, cyrilcroydon wrote:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAyK-enrF1g

    McCain's temper....

    and what's going on in West Virginia? Have the rednecks been drinking Kool-Aid?!!

    http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2008/WV08.html

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  • 41. At 03:05am on 10 Oct 2008, jawsdesai wrote:

    To OldSouth (number 16):

    Please do check the facts about Sen. Obama's birth certificate:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

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  • 42. At 03:06am on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#29Samtyler1969

    On my serious note:

    I took my early ballot to our polls today, driving over 100 miles round trip to personally deliver it.

    To#26Britishish

    Who said I wanted to move to the UK?

    Also, though nearly in our eighth decade, my dear one and I usually work a 12 hour day. We have considered hiring out for field work somewhere else in the world but at this point we do not have a lot of employers calling us.

    Our progeny refuse to allow us self-destruction. I can not understand why not. Life is such a farce and it gets worse as you age.

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  • 43. At 03:09am on 10 Oct 2008, cyrilcroydon wrote:

    When Gerard Baker (perhaps McCain's strongest supporter in the UK press) starts to write like this, perhaps the writing really is on the wall....

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4916218.ece

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  • 44. At 03:12am on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #24

    Aqua,

    Hang in there. When I am being serious I really only have one or two pearls of wisdom to share.

    The first is that we learn the most from each others experiences when they are diverse and different from our own. I spent my younger years in Europe, many in the UK. I live on the east coast, I am privileged enough to be well educated and highly compensated. The downside is that when decisions have to be made in times like these that hurt individuals and families I have to take them. And honour says I have to look the person in the eye and communicate them. And every spark of wit, input, knowledge, perspective and wisdom I can garner from anyone, is a spark I would not otherwise have had. Sharing your experiences is something no one else can do, and it is something I, personally, cherish. I wish we could spend time face to face, I am sure I would enjoy your company.

    Secondly the greatest thing that we can do is find and help the people who one day will lead us. Whether in business, personal lives or whatever the greatest gift we can be given is to be asked to mentor someone who we know will ultimtately surpass our own achievements. I sense you are one of the people who does that instinctively and willingly. It is a rare gift.

    As Justin noted, and Auden wrote. We all hear the Thunder. These are troubled times. We go on. The market is down, we go on. We lose friends and relatives to war, physically or mentally. We go on. We see friends and neighbours lose work, we go on. We have to choose who to lay off and who to keep. We go on.

    But we are all the better for having the counsel of folks such as yourself. We go on, because we have you, and others to help us. These are depressing times, but we don't have to be depressed.

    The one thing that is unique about America is we have a political system, because of the primaries, where we don't get the party man on the ticket each year. It means we can change direction remarkably quickly. We are not stuck with the guy who wanted the role for the last 20 years.

    This year is one of those years. Things will change. We go on. I have faith, in America but mostly in the millions of folks like you.

    And you also don't know just how kinky I am.

    Counselor Sam

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  • 45. At 03:13am on 10 Oct 2008, Via-Media wrote:

    New to this blog, so patience is appreciated...

    Deep in the heart of McCain country (NW PA) I'm not so certain as many contributors that his defeat is nigh. The total, absolute, irrational loathing of so many for Obama is almost frightening, and more intense even than the anti-Clinton crowd of not so many years ago. The hidden racism about which so many pollsters have already expressed uncertainty is very real, and unless Obama has more than a 10 point lead going in, I seriously doubt he can sustain a victory.

    My doubts are perhaps fueled by the wilderness in which I live... McCain yard signs (yes, not the best measure) outnumber Obama's by close to 2 to 1; the parking lot at work has one single Obama sticker out of hundreds of cars (many with NRA stickers, or worse.) I find it hard to be optimistic. At least work itself (a facility covered by anti-campaigning regulations) is a bit of a refuge...

    About Bush's legacy: a thought I have not yet seen posted in the several months I've lurked in the shadows here... A year or two ago I listened to an interview, perhaps Terry Gross on Fresh Air. The author basically posited the theory, with some intriguing evidence, that the Neocons planned from the start to deliberately destroy Big Government through force-feeding. By running up the deficit to unsustainable levels, whilst slashing revenues, the author suggested that the Neocons would try to bankrupt the Federal Govt. and force a drastic, cost-cutting revolution.

    Now, perhaps paranoid dreams do come true...

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  • 46. At 03:15am on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    #37Britishish

    You are so kind, please forgive my comment to you at my #42 if it offends you.

    I think I may have misunderstood your previous post. I Do really love my country but I get really frustrated at what has been happening.

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  • 47. At 03:16am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    In 37, btw, I was slightly adapting something said by a white protestant left-wing revolutionary . . .whose name didn't begin with A . . .who died more than 300 years ago . . .

    Just so you know.

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  • 48. At 03:17am on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #30

    Marby,

    But I like you guys. It's less fun.

    Sad Sam

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  • 49. At 03:19am on 10 Oct 2008, Via-Media wrote:

    For the record, while supporting Obama, I can't say that I trust any national politician. My Liberal Arts education might be failing me, but I think it was Plato in the Republic essentially stated that, in that utopian state, anyone who actually desired and campaigned for high office was automatically considered unsuitable, and immediately disqualified...

    Remove the ego from politics, though, and what have we left?

    Maybe we should screen to admit only the egoists who can listen and learn.

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  • 50. At 03:46am on 10 Oct 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    Since Mr McCain would have his finger on many buttons, his short fuse might be worth considering. This is the opinion of some of those who have been around him. Do we really need someone in The White House who is so volatile? Calm is what is needed in these dangerous times, not a hot-head.

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  • 51. At 04:01am on 10 Oct 2008, newyorkeditor wrote:

    Do you LIVE in the States? If you did, you would see the Obama frenzy. People are ready to not only embrace a complete change in the hypocrisy of our government, but they are also so ready to join forces...whites and blacks. So, so many of us are tired, not only of the politics, but of the old-school racism. With so many interracial relationships now, it just makes sense to get rid of the old mindset and embrace each other, no matter the color of our skin.

    We are tired of being raped by the government, and brainwashed, as well. We can't wait for President Obama to take over.

    Another thought we Americans have...if McCain won, then passed away while in office, our president would be Sarah Palin. Nightmare! Sweet and folksy, sure, but a nightmare for the country.

    At least Obama is surrounded by Joe Biden, who is a foreign affairs expert, and Bill Clinton's financial advisers. Remember, Bill Clinton's budget was nearly balanced when he was in office. It took the Republicans a mere eight years to drive the country straight to hell in a hand basket.

    Our U.S. government, with its deregulations of Wall Street, recently bailed out all the corporations using our money, to the tune of 700 BILLION dollars. Then right after that, one of the companies we saved, AIG, sent their executives on a spa retreat to the tune of over $400,000. In our real middle class and lower-income world that most of us in the U.S. live in, a school teacher in the Midwest would make about $35,000. That $400,000 spent on a weekend spa retreat would pay that teacher's salary for what? About 11 years?
    GO OBAMA!! If he's elected, there will be rejoicing in the streets!

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  • 52. At 04:04am on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    I am thinking that there is something evil that keeps on living in our world. I do not know what good people can do about this.

    We are raising a young grandchild who has been orphaned. (Any who may have read my past posts may know why this is so.)

    This child came home recently asking me to explain words and racial slurs that I have not allowed spoken in my house, ever. These words are being used in her school against Obama. She does not understand why and I am having a very hard time trying to explain to her that some people are just ignorant.

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  • 53. At 04:15am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    46: not at all.

    I was suddenly struck by this stuff about having a passport, driving licence or whatever to be able to register to vote.

    It might surprise some (I don't know, but things have gone a bit quiet here without our old friends foaming at the mouth) that it's all done on trust over here.

    Every year, each house or flat gets a form, and you fill it in with the names of everybody there who is over 18 and therefore eligible to vote and you send it back to the local council. Or if you forget, someone comes round and asks for it.

    So, because a French friend of mine has a flat in London, she fills one in too, because she's eligible to vote (though not in British General elections) in elections for the London mayor and European Parliament elections. She just doesn't tick the bit that asks if you're British . . .

    That's it. Quite simple. And very annoying that over a third of Brits don't vote when my French friend can't but is just as much affected by the government of this country as I am. . .

    (Admittedly, the form does warn you that lying is a criminal offence. There was some fraud in the last two elections, but so little it didn't make any difference. It's kind of a bit obvious if 32 people claim to be living in a one-bed flat.)

    And Sam:

    (48) I didn't think I'd miss them, but it's not the same, is it?

    While I'm on that subject, the Beeb said Dubbya was going to say something "tonight" which I thought meant your tonight, which would have been our early this morning, but it must be your tomorrow night, which is our tonight now. Or the early hours of our tomorrow morning. I think.

    Or did he (sensibly, for once, on the grounds he could only make it worse) decide not to bother, which would have saved me getting confused like this?






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  • 54. At 04:15am on 10 Oct 2008, goleooo wrote:

    aquarizona

    have no worries.

    McCain cannot win. Don't bother with the news.

    By running an evil campaign he only fires up his base who would vote for him anyways.

    By noticing McCain desperately trying to win for himself ignoring the economy and what really matters to people they are closing more and more on Obama.

    Don't worry. You will not get that fork. You deserve to witness the turn this country will make.

    Cheers and keep your spirit high.

    Have a laugh at McCain. That's what clowns are for.

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  • 55. At 04:19am on 10 Oct 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    NEWS ALERT!! Don't forget the "Troopergate Report" is due to be published tomorrow, or today, depending when and where you read this. Is this the "October surprise"?

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  • 56. At 04:22am on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#44Samtyler1969

    Thanks!

    You are KINKY but you ARE fun to read!

    I also believe that you are doing good wherever you are.

    When people get to be my age, I think they start to disengage. It is now time for you younger ones to take over. Do make us proud!

    I AM REALLY TIRED.

    Tomorrow IS another day or NOT, at my age.

    Sleep well, Samwise.

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  • 57. At 04:25am on 10 Oct 2008, moderate_observer wrote:

    if u support mccain right now based on th way his campaign is going you have to be a strong partisan, or very anti-obama. why else would anyone be interested in a candidate who admittedly does not want to talk about the issues?

    independent voters are the group who usually makes sound decisions and they decide the election, they pay attention to issues and hates distractions and politics as usual. his current campaign strategy is to distract. how honorable is that?

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  • 58. At 04:28am on 10 Oct 2008, goleooo wrote:

    Watch Palin against USA

    Palin against the Constitution of America.

    YOu must be a mad man or mad woman to support such a person...

    she is more of a threat and insult to the dream and image of America than any terrorist can ever be.

    terrorist might try to kill our troops and blow our buildings but Palin wants to destroy the Union and the Constitution of the United States of America.

    John McCain has become a fascist. He has sold his soul to the devil. The man who fought to defend the constitution is palling around with Anti-COnstitutionals and calling for violence against American Citizens.

    The man is disgusting.

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  • 59. At 04:30am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Bit late now, but, aquarizonagal, I've just heard a short interview on the World Service with "the world's oldest Barack Obama supporter" who is 106 . . .

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  • 60. At 04:35am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    16, OldSouth.

    Have you been hibernating? Obama's birth certificate was published months ago. That his birth could be in doubt is ridiculous. There were too many people around.

    Please vote for McCain. He deserves you.

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  • 61. At 04:37am on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #56

    Aqua,

    This is a hard post because you may see me as I am everyday, rather than as I really am. This blog is a way for me to disconnect and be myself. But for one post I will be professional, and the person I am in the business world.

    We have a duty to take responsibility, my generation.

    But you have a duty to give us counsel. You should be allowed to disengage and enjoy your time. But we do get to come ask for your advice. You don't have to give it but we'll keep asking. It's the deal we all sign up to without ever signing.

    As for your grandchild, I have no words of wisdom. I am a businessman without children. I can only say that the people who I seek out to recruit and develop are those who understand how to think logically, but also how to communicate and appreciate others. Those who use such slurs at any age will either come around and feel guilty later, or condemn themselves to mediocrity.

    I promise you I will never hire anyone who thinks that is acceptable, and if I mess up and find out later then they will be gone. If you don't get the value of diversity you cannot be a leader in todays economy.

    One of the few decisions that is easy.

    Sleep well, I appreciate and value your input.

    Professional Sam

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  • 62. At 04:39am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    48, Sam.

    Here in New York the insult is a sign of friendship. People you don't like, you don't talk to. Say whatever you like about me. I will come back at you and nail you. Think of it as a contest.

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  • 63. At 04:42am on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    It's almost time to pull out that old "bunker" scene
    which was used to parody Hillary, and to substitute
    McCain and his people for Hillary and hers.

    The economy is on the edge of the abyss. We
    haven't seen anything like this since the 30's.
    It's not going to get any better for years. It could
    get much, much, worse as the US and world
    economy regurgitate the "globalization" meal
    that was just eaten. We don't know what things
    are going to look like at the end.

    This guy York is plainly out of his depth - he has
    no concept as to where we are in the process.

    The Obama camp has not even responded in
    kind to the McCain attacks, because they don't
    have to. If it became necessary, they could launch
    an attack on Palin regarding her connections
    to the AIP, as the video that goleooo referenced
    clearly shows.

    Meanwhile, the McCain camp would have
    to turn up hard evidence linking Obama to
    an active terrorist group to be able to damage
    him - something that they have been unable
    to do.

    I'm not sure what could possibly turn things
    around for McCain. If there is a terrorist attack,
    Obama can point out that it was Bush who
    let Bin Laden escape. McCain has succeeded
    in a small way to distance himself from Bush,
    but if something major happens, all bets are
    off!

    Barring extraordinary circumstances at this
    point, like a Russian attack on Ukraine or
    something of similar magnitude, Obama seems
    unstoppable.

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  • 64. At 04:42am on 10 Oct 2008, rl wrote:

    Justin, every recent blog you have submitted seems to portray a turning of the tide in McCain's favour- how come this sway isn't refelected in any of the polls on the BBC website?

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  • 65. At 04:43am on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #53

    Ish ish ish,

    I have no idea. What could he say?

    'Ahhhhh. Ooops. Sorry'

    Confused Sam

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  • 66. At 04:47am on 10 Oct 2008, Soul News wrote:

    that's it?

    Hardly an inspiring victory....

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  • 67. At 04:53am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    42, aqua.

    I read your posts and enjoy them, but there is something I don't understand about you. You make frequent references to you age and you don't seem to see it as the boon it is.

    I can say this to you because I am going to celebrate the election by turning 79 two weeks later. I tried to get them to hold the election on the 19th, but but was told that McCain would not agree because I was not voting for him.

    Perhaps I am suffering from dimentia, but I seem to be happier each year that I live. You have so much more freedom, for one thing, and, for another, you see life in perspective. I like to think of the latter as wisdom, but again, I may be getting senile.

    Best of all, I can say whatever I want and get away with it.

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  • 68. At 04:56am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    59, ish-ish.

    My next door neighbor, who is 106, is going to vote. I don't know who he is for, but if it is not Obama, I will steal his eyeglasses and hearing aid.

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  • 69. At 04:58am on 10 Oct 2008, Blacktech wrote:


    I can't believe what this man is saying. "Improvement in the economy" is a huge IF. Besides, McCain has already been playing the "We don't know That One very well" card over and over with no success.

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  • 70. At 05:05am on 10 Oct 2008, fluffybunnyz2 wrote:

    To #16:

    Here's Obama's birth certificate, long since released to the public.

    Happy now?

    As for the other arguments you have, the song goes, "If you don't know me by now, you will never, never, never know me."

    If you feel you don't "know" Obama by now, just admit you're not voting for him because you don't like him. For whatever reason. It's okay. Not everyone likes Obama, and not everyone will vote for him. It's their right not to, as it is your right.

    Won't stop him from (possibly) winning this election, but there you are.

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  • 71. At 05:07am on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #62

    Marby,

    I'm in NYC this week and I hear you. I still like you, and probably always will. Makes the easy shots harder. So

    But for respect to NY and bonding, 'F You'. I didn't really mean that.

    Pick a bar somewhere on the island, I'll be back next Thursday. Would love to chat. I still owe you a glass of something good. And you never know, the odds say I will learn something.

    Definitely worth a sip.

    Viveur Sam

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  • 72. At 05:10am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    63, guns.

    It is time for honesty. This is not a recession. It's time we used the hated word - depression. The only good aspect of this disaster is that we cannot afford to invade any more countries.

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  • 73. At 05:11am on 10 Oct 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    #64. hainesoides: "Justin, every recent blog you have submitted seems to portray a turning of the tide in McCain's favour- how come this sway isn't refelected in any of the polls on the BBC website?"

    Probably to balance what was earlier perceived to be a pro-Obama bias; a number of posters railed against Justin for his supposed support of the Democratic candidate.

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  • 74. At 05:17am on 10 Oct 2008, botheyeswideopen wrote:

    As one who has remained open minded about the two incumbents I must say that McCain's latest antics leaves a bad taste.

    His scare tactics and portrayal of "that one" as a friend of a terrorists, muslim, etc. remind me of the present strategies of the current President all over again.

    Palin and McCain's attempt to use smear to cloud their own short comings convinces me as each day goes by that they have no clue how to manage this country and its current predicament.

    McCain's obvious disdain and lack of respect for Obama as evidenced by his body language during the debate tells me he is either scared of Obama or he does not live up to his self proclaimed role as an arbitrater between the parties.

    All in all,I find myself more inclined towards the democratic niominee as these antics continue.

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  • 75. At 05:20am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    58, galeooo.

    That McCain should take on this soulless political hack and then goad her into reviving racial hatred, after all we have done to put it to rest, is evil.

    That such a person should presume to represent us as president is shameful. That people would vote for him is more shameful. McCain is no hero; he is the enemy.

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  • 76. At 05:31am on 10 Oct 2008, moderate_observer wrote:

    watching a delayed larry king from earlier tonight, a few republican insiders on the show are saying that they have sarah palin in the campaign team playing a role similar to a secretary, its an old boys club where her opinions doesnt count and they only are giving her orders and talking points for stump speech.
    now i see why she is being hidden from the media.



    and they are ruining sarah's reputation.

    I believe she should step down.

    McCain's legacy is pretty much in the dirt now among republican loyalists in the party right now as well.
    if they lose too many seats in the senate they will blame mccain.

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  • 77. At 05:32am on 10 Oct 2008, newyorkeditor wrote:

    I was discussing the benefits of a Democratic president with someone on the train and as I was stepping off the train at my stop, a random man who was eavesdropping said, "I would rather have a war hero in office." Okay, it's that kind of blind patriotism that got this country (the U.S.) into the pickle it's in now. The truth of the matter is that just because someone in the armed forces was captured and tortured, does not a commander-in-chief of the largest country in the world make. That sad experience does not give McCain an automatic expertise in economic issues, domestic problems, and an experience world view.

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  • 78. At 05:32am on 10 Oct 2008, paul939 wrote:

    THe McCain camp is planning to win through
    this technique. Hardly surprising. He knows nothing else.

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  • 79. At 05:40am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    71, Sam.

    As for meeting on the Island, F' you. (I didn't mean that - like hell.) Name a place in Manhattan where real New Yorkers hang out. When you get there look for someone who is laughing.

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  • 80. At 05:52am on 10 Oct 2008, CityTrucker wrote:

    McCain keeps plugging away at his message?
    Economic confidence returns?
    Who is this guy in your video?
    Hasn't he noticed that McCain no longer has a message?
    The only way McCain can win is to have Palin assassinated and blame Obama, "The Terrorist". Even that might not work.

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  • 81. At 06:03am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    Since JohnAAA is not here I am filling in for him (but not in spirit).

    Intrade quotes: Obama, 76.6; McCain, 23.4.

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  • 82. At 06:03am on 10 Oct 2008, SanYing wrote:

    Byron York is talking hog.

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  • 83. At 06:13am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    15, ubermensch.

    Hmmm. So you like Palin. If your taste runs to coarse, racist women, what does that say about you?

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  • 84. At 06:21am on 10 Oct 2008, crazynvwa wrote:



    October 10
    can't sleep...
    2:55am
    As a Chinese citizen living and working in Holland, growing up in a red “Communism” system, moved to a capitalism society, experiencing the changes politically, socially, physically, mentally, with my ears and my eyes and my body and my soul, having travelled a lot of states in the USA, I have something to say here :
    1. I am not for , neither am I against any parties in the USA
    2. My perception of the American society is that it is a country of COMMERCE or TRADE, i.e. the politicians sell their ideas to the people powered by all kind of money generating machines, i.e. business units, commercial companies
    the commercial units and companies sell products to consumers powered by bankers;
    the bankers sell their products to tax payers for mortgage, deposits, loans, etc…
    the tax payers are working hard to buy bankers’ products, and the bankers are working to power the business units and commercial companies, the business units and commercial companies are working hard to feed the politicians, and what do the politicians do?
    They put up a huge fantastic talk show everywhere in your country spending all the resources they can get to try to convince you they can do the PERFECT job for you.
    They wouldn’t care what ever price they have pay, and whatever crazy stupid things they would do:
    1. They can show you how PERFECT they are, how disasterous the other party is
    2. They will attack the opposite party by all means: they would make a big fuss about the family first, whether the candidate from the opposite party has any affairs, if so, how many… whether they have behaved in their childhood, in their youth, in their career, whether they have even lied…
    Then they go to his wife or her husband… then their children, their parents, their grand parents…
    3. Then they will make a conclusion that they are the PERFECT one for your country…
    My fellow Americans, (so I called because we are now sharing a global village), aren’t you tired up with all these craps every 4 years’ time? Can you be a bit more creative? What would these politicians bring you? I can tell you:
    1. They spent all your money to war , to things that are not to protect your best interests, because they care only about their own interests although they all claim differently;
    2. They are bloody bureaucratic;
    3. They all make mistakes like you all do, because they are just human being;
    4. They disappoint you in many ways because they don’t have a good customer service after they “sell”their products to you like all the others who want to sell you stuffs, NEVER TRUST THE SALES PERSON, they aim for your POCKET and YOUR MONEY!!!!!!!!!!
    5. Your purse is shrinking day by day , because they spent them all from you, a good , loyal , ordinary American citizen.
    If you are betrayed once, it is his fault, if you are betrayed twice, it is your fault!
    Another Chinese saying goes : ” What you don’t like to happen to yourself, don’t force it to happen to others” ????,????
    So don’t force other countries to follow suit with your so called ” domecracy” , “freedom” “Capitalism” , because NOTHING IN THIS WORLD IS PERFECT, they all have good and bad sides, that’s how the ancient Chinese called ” Yin and Yang” (Positive and Negative), they are everywhere in everything you do, whenever you do, Yin and Yang is always together, a pair, NOTHING IS PERFECT. Only God is supposed to be PERFECT.
    God bless America, God bless the whole world!


    October 7 10:18am
    A Chinese saying goes: mind the snow in your own garden, so sweep the snow out of your own garden first… and mind your own American economical situation in order to save the world
    6:02 AM | Add a comment | Send a message | Permalink | View trackbacks (0) | Blog it




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  • 85. At 06:22am on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #82, that was very concise!

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  • 86. At 06:24am on 10 Oct 2008, rn9588 wrote:

    It's very obvious that Sen. McCain does not understand the issue that is important to the American public. That is, it's the economy. After all, how can he understand? He owns 9 homes, 13 cars and a private jet! He's far removed from all these mess!

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  • 87. At 06:31am on 10 Oct 2008, LadyBobbieBea wrote:

    There's been much comparison of these times to the Great Depression.

    I take a different perspective and compare them to pre-American Revolutionary times. Now, historians, I'm thinking of the emotional climate more than I am going point by point on economics and so forth. From what I've read, back then, there were also incendiary personalities who whipped up the fears and prejudices of ignorant mobs. Nothing has changed; that toxic undercurrent has remained close enough to the surface for Palin to easily fan the fire. We are now seeing her real function in all of this.

    This new revolutionary is a perfect storm so violent that it, like the first American Revolution, will have far reaching implications.

    These are very exciting times. We have an opportunity to enjoy them and relish the potential to leap forward into another even greater phase of our growth. We are, by comparison, such a young country, a teenager, compared to the ancient cultures we patronize. Our bad attitudes got us into trouble.

    Now we can mature, swallow our pride, take our losses and be the better for it.

    b

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  • 88. At 06:31am on 10 Oct 2008, Talleyrand wrote:

    Conservative?

    the problem is honI think it is time to define terms. I am a conservative. I believe in hard work, thrift, respect for my neighbors and the environment, no extravagance. There are numerous conservatives siding with Obama, because in terms of political thinking, the GOP is currently led by some very radical people. Historians should consider the term "Jacobin" here, with Palin in the role of Marat.

    McCain wants to continue the Bush patent medicine both in terms of the economy AND foreign policy, only Bush had a fairly healthy economy when he started out in January 2001 (including a budget surplus). He also had an intact army, which is now exhausted and bogged down in two quagmires, doing police work in one, and one can only speculate as to what it is doing in the other place, Iraq of course.

    Just as these right-wingers mangle the term "liberal" and "socialist", they also mangle and gut the term "conservative".

    A former editor of the National Review, a Barry Goldwater conservative, displayed far more political honesty and backbone. In an editorial in the Big D Magazine in Texas, he wrote:

    "I now see that Obama is almost the ideal candidate for this moment in American history. I disagree with him on many issues. But those don’t matter as much as what Obama offers, which is a deeply conservative view of the world. Nobody can read Obama’s books (which, it is worth noting, he wrote himself) or listen to him speak without realizing that this is a thoughtful, pragmatic, and prudent man. It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.

    Most important, Obama will be a realist. I doubt he will taunt Russia, as McCain has, at the very moment when our national interest requires it as an ally. The crucial distinction in my mind is that, unlike John McCain, I am convinced he will not impulsively take us into another war unless American national interests are directly threatened."

    The California Stockton Report, too, came down on the side of Obama, choosing a Democrat for the first time in 72 years. Here is what they said:

    "Obama has been accused of being an empty suit, all talk and no action. There's no "there" there, his detractors say.

    The charge is no more credible than that of him being an elitist.

    Obama can inspire, and our nation desperately needs an inspirational leader. And he does not carry the deep scars of Vietnam, as do many of McCain's generation.

    He offers hope. A new way of doing business. And a belief that our system of government can be made to work."

    These are real conservatives, who consider the national interests in their decision, not the breakfast grill on Wasilla High Street and the local gathering of, I am sorry to be so cruel, rednecks. Americ is not Wasilla, Wasilla is just a small part of America and it must take the whole nation into consideration, all the differences and diversity. Why? Because that is what makes our nation so strong.




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  • 89. At 06:38am on 10 Oct 2008, turningblueandgrey wrote:

    One factor keeping McCain-Palin in the running is the noise about voter fraud. There is a back story to the news about ACORN.

    Not being diligent enough in pursuing ACORN (perhaps because it seemed less important at the time than modern day terrorism or white collar crime?) was a factor in the series of US Attorneys firings by the Bush administration, which are still under investigation. ACORN worked for minimum wage increases earning even more Republican ire than from voter registration alone.

    Obama never worked with ACORN; his work with "project vote" was completely separate. He did later legally represent ACORN.

    Headlines in Republican-leaning newspapers shout out above meager news: 2 dozen invalid registrations found in Florida, a dubious raid in Nevada. These seem concerted to make headlines followed by little substance.

    Some states apparently are discussing whether foreclosed homeowners meet residency requirements to vote.

    Finally, it's reported that a campaign of misdirection seen at big elections has begun: poor neighborhoods get fliers or calls saying that polling places have changed. These are hard to trace and current laws make prosecution difficult.

    I would offer a paraphrased Lincoln perspective: Perhaps every 10,000 or every 1 million votes denied for over 80 years by Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, intimidation, etc. might be repaid by 1 invalid regstration. I suspect the misdirection of valid low income voters more than offsets any invalid voters who might make it through normal checks. American democracy has bigger issues to consider.

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  • 90. At 06:49am on 10 Oct 2008, FinMember wrote:

    Campaign contributions are a valuable indicator of the public favour. Who as been getting the lion's share. It is not mcant.
    A country that would consider never mind vote for another gwb supporter is unbeliveable to most Europeans. A country that was gaining respect in the world in the last 8 years has become a global disaster zone with little respect from anyone. Anyone who would put sp in a position to possibly become commander in chief is stupid beyond belief, another gwb, how can Americans possibly even think it.

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  • 91. At 06:53am on 10 Oct 2008, middlecroony wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 92. At 07:10am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    88, U5656.

    A very thoughtful and interesting piece. Thank you for posting it. It gave me further insight into my choice of Obama. I am an independent who is fiscally conservative and socially progressive (a simplification), a pragmatist and a realist. You have made me more comfortable with my choice for president. I will print your post to show to others. Again, my thanks.

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  • 93. At 07:11am on 10 Oct 2008, ianmez wrote:

    This was hilarious.

    It's more likely a giant safe falls from the sky and lands on Obama.

    Or maybe John McCain hires some buddies to stage a terrorist attack that he stops singlehandedly.

    Oooh, or maybe a pair of massive earthquakes cause both the east AND west coasts of the United States to fall into the ocean.

    Or I suppose maybe Obama can win, and then on November 5th he'll tug on his face, and Mission Impossible-style, he'll pull of a lifelike mask and we'll all realize we were duped into voting for Mitt Romney.

    And while I agree most of those scenarios are not likely, they're somewhat more likely than the ridiculous set of circumstances that this joker York is imagining.

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  • 94. At 07:16am on 10 Oct 2008, Chris Heaton wrote:

    Right, let's just have a think about what this guy here is REALLY saying. Confidence returns to the markets (amusing), and people start to think:

    "Do I really know this guy? (What if he turns out to be black?)"

    I must say I start to agree with someone here who had the impression by now that you're cheering McCain a little bit. Been going direct to the American sources. NPR's coverage seems pretty balanced, MSNBC tells me what I want to hear, and FOX is...... well.... Fox has been outfoxed, hasn't it?

    GR-R-R-R-REAT.

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  • 95. At 07:26am on 10 Oct 2008, turningblueandgrey wrote:

    88, agree with 92

    Also, look at the Economist web site for a large poll of economist with a supermajority expressing more confidence in Obama.

    I hope that educators and scientists pick up on McCain equating the Zeiss system sought for the Adler planetarium with an 'overhead projector'. I'll bet that a few hundred thousand kids look up at the Adler's dome each year for an experience that many remember for a lifetime, an insight to the scale of the cosmos and the remarkable cycles of our solar system, from a high-tech system that has no better in the world. Perhaps John McCain's Navy days came after celestial navigation was a life-and-death matter for our servicemen but he should have known better than to make such a shallow comparison as a cheap shot.

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  • 96. At 07:28am on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    Goodnight to all my pals. I will catch up with you tomorrow.

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  • 97. At 07:32am on 10 Oct 2008, FinMember wrote:

    How secure is the voting machinery? Can it be highjacked by any group? mcant's only hope for an election victory is if some dirty tricks group can steal the election for him.

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  • 98. At 07:39am on 10 Oct 2008, david bennet wrote:

    What is all this 'Who is Barack Obama?' business.

    How is he more different from 'us' than John McCain? How many of us grew up in elite military families? How many of us married heiresses? How many of us have been Senators for the last few decades?

    Our life experiences are unlikely to be so much more different from those of Obama than those of McCain.

    So, why should Obama be more unknown or unknowable than McCain?

    Of course, he's Black; could that be the problem?
    Come on, chaps, say what you really mean, please.

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  • 99. At 07:45am on 10 Oct 2008, rl wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 100. At 07:57am on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #98, bennfuji, from my point of view, there are
    definitely reasons to question Obama's background.

    But, amazingly, there are more reasons to question
    Palin's background. Obama's links to Ayers
    are a little vague; Palin's links to the Alaska
    Independence Party are becoming more and more
    obvious.

    I don't think that color has anything to do with it.

    McCain just blew it when it came to picking a VP.
    If Condi Rice had agreed to be the VP, then he
    would have walked off with the election by now.

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  • 101. At 08:04am on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:


    The first thing I read when I returned to this site was OldSouth at l6 still blathering on about the birth certificate.

    I see that he has been smartly dealt with by various posters - but WHY is it that the anti-Obamas are so happy to reveal their crass ignorance every time they put finger to keyboard.







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  • 102. At 08:08am on 10 Oct 2008, Xie_Ming wrote:

    Are personalities, rather than issues, decisive for the American electorate?

    Does Palin really have massive popular support?

    Are these, or their interpretation, “issues” or are they dogma?

    __________________________________

    “Is the “American Way of Life” a civil religion? Nationalism can be seen as an answer to heterogeneity and religious pluralism. Herberg, for example, saw the “American Way of Life” as the basic religion of the American people. (There is a unifying set of values, sacred writings, saints, ceremonies, fervor, etc.).

    It sees the country as the “Promised Land” and holds “democracy” to be sacred, without being at all sure how democracy should be defined.

    Enlightenment ideals, as embodied in the Declaration of Independence, form part of the creed. However, the specific application of that creed is a source of continuing controversy. In less urban areas, specters of Puritan theocracy seek to reassert their influence.

    Whether there is, or should be, a “Social Gospel” or a democratic “Social Contract” is discussed from time to time. Withal, there is an ethos of pragmatism, materialism and of progress through technology…”

    Mind and Ideology ISBN 9780920282113

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  • 103. At 08:14am on 10 Oct 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 104. At 08:20am on 10 Oct 2008, jzelouise wrote:

    Just a few comments in reply. This is the saniest blog I've found in weeks. Thanks for the reasoned, sane and civil posts.
    #77 I understand the mindset of the person "wanting a war hero" for them it's easy..don't have to think, 'this tells me all I have to know'.

    Before I anger anyone.. I have a very large family, 12 aunts and uncles. Hey what can I say, small town Indiana in the depression. At family reunions, if everyone showed up in uniform, or otherwise indicated spousal service, it would look like a Veterans Day parade. The only service not represented is the Coast Guard, I think. They've served in every war/action since WW II. Do they claim they are heros, no. Could they? Only if you count the uncle who had 2 helos shot out from under him in Viet Nam. The uncle who was at Pearl Harbor, boyfriend who was at Da Nang. Husband several years later who was on the Mekong river patrols. Aunt who served as an Army nurse in Korea. Dad who 'got dragged around behind Patton'- his words, then served in Korea. Cousins who were in Kuwait and currently in Iraq and Afghanistan. You get the picture.

    They don't see themselves as heros, just did their duty...But the funny thing is they almost never talk about their service. No bragging, no I'm special. I tend to view anyone who constantly talks about being a vet or POW with a deal of supicion. Sets off alarm bells, either they are wannabees who never served or are dealing with PTSD of one type or the other. Being a POW makes you a survivor, worthy of respect, but not necessarily a hero. I worry about Mccain's constant referrences to his POW status. That was then, I don't see a lot of stability now.

    #89 referring to voter fraud, the NY Times (?) had an opinion piece in the paper on just this subject. The comment section on that made me feel both encouraged at the level of outrage that this could be happening and very old at the same time. Saw it in Alabama through the mid 50's until just after the Cuban missile crisis, then we moved north. I remember the voter registration drives and the Civil Rights movement very well, some things stick with you from your childhood.

    In Ohio in 2004 the same dirty tricks reared their head again. Voter rolls purged, votes not counted. On a first hand basis, saw 2 Republican 'poll watchers' try to intimidate, harass or challenge various voters. They tried to stop one elderly lady from voting, challenged her citizenship because she had an accent...gee, she had immigrated from Czechislovakia in the late 50's. Not the smartest thing to do in a heavily ethnic neighborhood in Cleveland. We called the cops.

    It goes on and on. We the People need to remember what we have in common. We need to stop the fear mongering and divisiveness. We need to take back our country or surely we will lose it.

    Sorry for the rambling rant, it's late and somehow just saying ' I agree" didn't cover it.
    Louise J.

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  • 105. At 08:32am on 10 Oct 2008, Parrisia wrote:

    To the moderate observer (#2)

    the Rep government record as presented in the piece you have copies/pasted amounts to High Treason. But, think: were the Dem administration (B.Clinton) really any different ?

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  • 106. At 08:32am on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:



    Ah ! Bennfuji at 98 - when they don't want to admit that it's 'cos he is black, they say ..... but he's Muslim !

    Never mind the hours and hours of recorded time that Obama and Michelle (down,Sam) have spent talking about their Christian faith - the reason that they can't vote for him is because he's Muslim (aka black)

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  • 107. At 08:44am on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:



    In the interest of showing humanity to our fellow beings, I think that the Beeb should take the Byron York clip down now.

    His three points for victory aren't going so well, are they ?

    - McCain showing steadiness ? No, he's getting flakier by the minute.

    - The economy recovering ? Tanking all over the world and joy of joys, now Bush is going to say something which will be a BIG help.

    - Getting to know Obama ? We're seeing more of his resilience and calm leadership each day.

    The longer the clip stays up there, the crueller it seems.

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  • 108. At 08:56am on 10 Oct 2008, NETCRUSHER wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 109. At 09:16am on 10 Oct 2008, Bob in Bury wrote:

    The republicans keep asking "who is Barack Obama" to prevent people from realising that we've only known Sarah Palin for 5 weeks.

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  • 110. At 09:19am on 10 Oct 2008, Schwerpunkt wrote:

    51. newyorkeditor wrote:

    "GO OBAMA!! If he's elected, there will be rejoicing in the streets!"

    Of course there will; because all the do-nothings will already be putting their hands out ready to be taken care of by the state.

    Once they are getting their 'bread' (the 'circuses' already being supplied by X-Factor or whatever) it is nearly impossible to wean them off the teat again. The ethos of self-reliance and responsibility is gone.

    Having lived in Europe much of my life I have seen how Obama's promised "support" (or socialism although he avoids the term) destroys the people of a country.

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  • 111. At 09:21am on 10 Oct 2008, rl wrote:

    Does anyone else think that if there was no limit on the amount of terms a president could serve that Bill Clinton would still be in power?

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  • 112. At 09:25am on 10 Oct 2008, The Notting Hill Hammer wrote:

    The more we get to know BHO, the more unsettled we are.

    That, in the final analysis, is the heart of the matter.

    I am no great fan of McCain, but we (and I mean the world at large) cannot afford to have Obama at the helm of the United States.

    McCain is not Bush, and even the Dems know it, even as they scream to the contrary. He is one tough character, and we will need one. He is a military leader, and we unfortunately, will need one.

    He has many more rational people around him than BHO, and will be able to recruit more. Obama is surrounded by the Old Leftist Guard, like Pelosi and Reid, and young Kool-Aid drinkers who view him as a demi-god.

    What happens when he disillusions those young people, when they see him for who he is?

    And, by the way--why won't he produce an official birth certificate from Hawaii, and end that particular controversy? All he need do is get a few official copies, and hand them over to credible journalists from all shades of opinion. Presto, lawsuit goes away, that question subsides, and people's confidence in him is increased.

    Why won't he do that?

    It just doesn't add up...


    .................................

    There's nothing to add up, except the number of desperate attempts by the right to smear the next POTUS.

    We have a resurgence of McCarthyism going on at the moment. Just look at McCain's insane anti "socialist"rants and the stone age Republican rallies.

    They know Obama is going to win and they cannot stand it. Not just because he is black but also because he is an intelligent cultured man who represents the best of America where they represent the worst.

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  • 113. At 09:31am on 10 Oct 2008, Bert Yardbrush wrote:

    Byron York is not living in the real world. The economy get better in the next 26 days? Ha!

    I saw Justin's BBC report last night on the McCain/Palin show in the midwest. It would seem that a big fear in the USA is, dare I say the 's' word (will I be moderated?), socialism.

    It appears that it comes from Europe and it's bad, really bad.

    Perhaps some US citizen might explain to a British subject what's so really bad about socialism.

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  • 114. At 09:38am on 10 Oct 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 115. At 09:44am on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:


    # 110 ~ Schwerpunkt

    Well, that post was full of the milk of human kindess and Christian goodness.

    Suppose it makes a change from the usual "elite-bashing" coming from secret bunkers in Washington DC.

    And it's always useful to know how you feel Schwerpunkt.

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  • 116. At 09:47am on 10 Oct 2008, david bennet wrote:

    Hello again gunsandreligion (#100),

    ... and precisely what are these "reasons to question Obama's background"?

    david bennet




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  • 117. At 10:03am on 10 Oct 2008, Pat Jack wrote:

    Having seen and read this analysis I'm votin' for McPalin.

    I am also buying duck tape, tins of beans, plastic sheeting, fresh water and diggin' a shelter in my garden - just in case this 'analysis' doesn't happen.

    Anyone seen the Dow Jones recently?

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  • 118. At 10:08am on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:



    Notting Hill and Bert have commented on the latest really, really scary word in the Republican lexicon - "socialism".

    First of all it was scary to show any "liberal" tendencies. Then "elites" were the danger.
    Now it's "socialism"

    What is "socialism" to followers of The National Review, is more like true-blue conservatism in the UK. So everything is relative and none of it means very much - unless you want to terrify people.

    But eight years of a Republican administration have managed to do that anyway.

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  • 119. At 10:10am on 10 Oct 2008, Andrew Prescott wrote:

    Justin, the blurb at the top of your blog says that you are covering the McCain campaign and Gavin Hewitt is covering Obama. But when I went to Gavin Hewitt's blog it seemed to be predominantly about McCain. There does seem to be a bit of a lopsided coverage here.

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  • 120. At 10:11am on 10 Oct 2008, bena gyerek wrote:

    thanks to simon21 @ 3

    i really needed something to cheer me up this morning after i looked at the current valuation of my pension fund..

    :-))

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  • 121. At 10:13am on 10 Oct 2008, Arthur Putey wrote:

    If you're still an undecided voter, might I have a quick word?

    The word is...PALINOMICS.


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  • 122. At 10:16am on 10 Oct 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #103 #114 Me
    I wanted to reply to #84 crazynvwa and laud the wonders of democracy.

    Unfortunately, I prefaced it with stuff about this blog and comments attached thereto which have all too frequently descended into name-calling and other vituperative delights.

    That aroused the ire of the moderators because I actually cited a name Justin Webb has been called and even when asterisked, it was not allowed.

    The original stuff on democracy was long and boring and I couldn't be bothered to key it in again.

    Given that that last sentiment pretty much sums up any post I might put here...

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  • 123. At 10:19am on 10 Oct 2008, BillTyrone wrote:

    104. jzelouise

    Welcome! Thank you for that down to earth personal history and para 3 spot on.

    It has been a hobby horses for some time now -particularly after someones performance at the GOP convention. There are millions of good men who went to hell and back in WW1 & WW2 and more conflicts.

    So many families, just like my own, not able to grasp why one Great Uncle who served on the Western Front and got blown up, but survived, sat in a darkened room for hours alone....... a second Great Uncle KIA at Passendaele and an Uncle sent to the bottom of the North Sea in a destroyer in 1940.

    But the quiet self dignity and calm that the majority of young men have shown throughout these generations has been a shining beacon of decency; humility and self respect. Qualities that are beyond the grasp of many leaders today, so quick to mount military expeditions without giving a twopenny bit for the human consequences and costs.

    Tongue in cheek, for someone who *loves them and will look after them* I am waiting to hear of the early Christams card going out to the 200,000 US homeless vets inviting then to come and stay at the ranch and - or any of the other available homes to enjoy some warmth and hospitality ........

    Meeeow..... I know ....... but men of true grit and worth don't breakfast on the pathos thing for political ends..... actions speak larger than words.

    ---------------------------

    just measuring up my Morning suit here, all, in case of a surprise announcement from Ally & Sam later !!

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  • 124. At 10:22am on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:



    In an idle moment I typed the word schwerpunkt into the search engine.

    The result illuminated.

    I recommend anyone who is a little bit alarmed at the direction the Republican argument is taking to have a look at the Wikipedia entry

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  • 125. At 10:32am on 10 Oct 2008, olafpalme wrote:

    "from national review about mccains negative campaigning.

    http://frum.nationalreview.com/

    "We conservatives are sending a powerful, inadvertent message with this negative campaign against Barack Obama's associations and former associations: that we lack a positive agenda of our own and that we don?t care about the economic issues that are worrying American voters.
    "
    ----

    That was interesting.... Frum's Canadian genes I suspect. `Caring'? What does that have to do with the current GOP?

    It is interesting now seeing all the hairline fractures in the GOP appearing. Cracks in the ceiling. If McCain loses I tend to think the GOP will start a little civil war within itself. The thing that worries me is that some BillyBob is gonna start polishing his .45 while watching Obama's inaugural on TV. I would hate to be Secret Service these days.

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  • 126. At 10:37am on 10 Oct 2008, duhbuh wrote:

    Some Obama supporters in Harlem were interviewed about the issues for the Howard Stern show.

    Interviewer: Some people speculate that blacks are voting for Obama strictly because he’s black and not because of his policies, so we took McCain’s policies and pretended they were Obama’s. This is what they had to say... For the election - Obama or McCain?
    Black guy: I like Obama.
    Interviewer: Now what don’t you like about McCain?
    Black guy: McCain seems to not know what he’s doing right now.
    Interviewer: Are you more for Obama’s policy because he’s pro-life or because he thinks our troops should stay in Iraq and finish this war?
    Black guy: I think because our troops should stay in Iraq and finish this war. I’m really for him with that. Definitely.
    Interviewer: OK, now how about him being pro-life? Do you support Obama in that case?
    Black guy: Yeah. I do. I support him in that case.
    Interviewer: And if he wins would you have any problem with Sarah Palin being Vice President?
    Black guy: No I wouldn’t, not at all.
    Interviewer: So you think he made the right choice in that?
    Black guy: I definitely do.
    Interviewer: Thank you very much, have a great day….

    Interviewer: Are you for Obama or McCain?
    Black guy 2: Obama.
    Interviewer: OK. Why not McCain?
    Black guy 2: Well I don’t agree with some of his, y’know, policies.
    Interviewer: Now Obama says he’s anti-stem cell research. How do you feel about that?
    Black guy 2: I believe that. I wouldn't do that either, I'm anti-stem cell.
    Interviewer: Now if Obama wins do you mind Sarah Palin being Vice President?
    Black guy 2: No, no I don't.

    Interviewer: This election – Obama or McCain?
    Black woman: Obama.
    Interviewer: Now why not McCain? What don't you like about him?
    Black woman: He sort of doesn't sound like he has enough...like he does... he's uneducated, because when they had both of the presidents speaking he didn't sound like he knew what he was talking about too much whereas Obama had facts and information when he was speaking.
    Interviewer: Good point. Let me ask you this. Do you support Obama more because he's pro-life or because our troops should stay in Iraq and finish the war?
    Black woman: Um, I guess both.
    Interviewer: Now if Obama wins do you have any problem with Sarah Palin being his Vice President?
    Black woman: Um, no.
    Interviewer: Do you think she'll do a good job?
    Black woman: I think she'll do a good job.
    Interviewer: Are you glad he elected her to be the VP if he wins?
    Black woman: Yup.
    Interviewer: Thank you very much.

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  • 127. At 10:37am on 10 Oct 2008, Mark wrote:

    121, Arthur

    Thanks for your kind comment on the previous feed.

    Well, the FTSE has stabilised for the moment at c.5% down which leaves it precariously above the 4000 mark. It won't take much, if the Dow continues to slip on opening, for the FTSE to drop another 100-150 points below that crucial psychological barrier. I suspect it will settle at about 32-3300 before slowly recovering in about a years time. Getting back to present levels in about 18 months to two years. Have a good look at what happened in New Zealand in 1987-89: that is what is about to happen here (for those who don't remember the market dropped from 3800 to 1100; the final slump from 2200 down happening when the DFC failed).

    And where London goes, so will New York: the long term base of the Dow is about 6500-7000 (ie. the equivalent to where it fall relative to the size of the economy post 1987), recovering again to present levels over a 2-3 year period. It will be at least 5-6 years before the Dow recovers to Sept 15 pre-crash levels. People who think this is but a six month storm in a teacup are in serious denial.

    It is the overwhelming reality of that during the next three weeks that will make McCain's attempt at character assassination so irrelevant and petty. He's playing the wrong political game for the wrong moment.

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  • 128. At 10:49am on 10 Oct 2008, cyberDeadeye wrote:

    This election is going to primarily be about the ecomomy.

    So someone pleasecheck me on these items?
    I’m pretty sure that I heard them from the news media.


    The Economy
    1. Did McCain say the U.S. economy was fundamentally sound about 11 days before this banking crisis?

    2. When the president and financial secretaries came up with the first bail out plan. Didn’t McCain say he was against it?

    3. Did he not say that Paulson the treasury secretary should be fired?

    4. After President Bush talked with McCain and Obama about the seriousness of the banking crisis. Did McCain change his mind and suspend his campaign and go to
    Washington and say he would not leave until a plan was reached.
    Who are his advisors and why did they allow him to say those things or was it just is own train of thought.

    5. Now he wants to add things to the bailout like insuring or backing failed home loans.
    Are there any pre conditions here? What if someone just bought a home that they could not afford? Sounds like a handout. Oh yeah… and great more government involvement. You can’t have it both ways.

    Victory
    1. McCain says that we need victory in Iraq but doesn't think it is a good idea to cross into Pakistan (which we have already done) to get you know who and other terrorist, if the Pakistan government fails to act.
    2. Iran, Iran, Iran, There’s an old saying keep you friends close but keep your enemies even closer.

    VP
    1. Palin, Palin, Palin. Yeh she’s cute, however she visited Jacksonville, Florida on the Tuesday 7 October. I don’t want to sound racist but I didn’t see very many minorities in the crowd. Why are Republicans picking VPs that no one has ever heard of?

    No brainer here.

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  • 129. At 10:55am on 10 Oct 2008, Parrisia wrote:

    "economy improving"... and then Mr. York woke up

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  • 130. At 11:06am on 10 Oct 2008, wheredawhitewimmenat wrote:

    Having read and admired several of the bloggers thoughts for some weeks now (SamTyler1969, aquarizonagal, David Cunard, among many others) and royally entertained by others (big shout out to JohnAAA and OldSouth and especially Marcus Aurelius), I thought I'd put my twopenn'orth in for a change.

    Justin's blog is yet another in a series of risible news articles recently broadcast by the formerly-great and honourable Beeb that lends credence to some of the most ridiculous arguments I've heard in any electoral campaign. I watched this last night on the Beeb's 10 o'clock bulletin and at first thought it a spoof and then remembered that they reported Obama's comments on "lipstick and pig" as if it were true. Standards are truly slipping at the Beeb because I found myself laughing at this rather than the abysmal new sitcoms they're giving airtime to these days.

    They then went on to show Justin interviewing Palin cheerleaders in Ohio, most of whom stated that they would vote Palin (obviously not McCain because he seems to be on the GOP ticket by default) because she was a working mum (hardly unique credential) and voting Obama was equivalent to turning the country socialist and depriving Americans of all their freedoms. At this point, I thought I was about to suffer from incontinence, such was the level of seemingly unintentional hilarity. This also reminded me of other interviewees in recent news items referring to Obama raising taxes (yawn - you're wrong, son), America becoming like Europe (in what way, pray tell?) and countries with high taxation policies having a worse standard of living than the US of A (been to Sweden?).

    To my eternal shame, I have watched all three of the debates and, apart from their being pathetically 'moderated', I cannot for the life of me see how Americans are still considering voting for an old git full of contempt and hatred (not even trying to conceal these) who cannot utter a single sentence without referring to his friends while staggering around the stage like the frail old man he is and a less-than-one dimensional muppet with an annoying tic and a limited vocabulary/knowledge with the most piercing shrill voice imaginable. (Did I find her immensely annoying? You betcha.)

    I'll come out with it: yes, I really want Obama to win, partly because he's the superior candidate and partly because he has more humanity in his little finger than McCain could ever aspire to possessing (his autobiography was truly inspiring though the "Audacity" one is insipid). However, the main reason is because America needs to come out of its shell, realise that it's got to get on with other countries and not act unilaterally on global issues. You aren't going to get that with the Old Git and his 'sexy' sidekick (yeah, right, he chose for her accomplished record).

    While I still have hope that common sense will prevail, the realist/cynic in me is that come November 5th, America will not have chosen the right candidate. I am resigned to this because he's black; you may refer to this being the Bradley Effect but here in the UK we call it summat else.


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  • 131. At 11:31am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    68.allmymarbles:

    Don't be mean. Just nicking his glasses would do surely? No need to hide his hearing aid as well.

    (Unless you have voting machines that talk to you and say things like "For McCain, press 2. For Obama, press 2.")

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  • 132. At 11:40am on 10 Oct 2008, icetayoa wrote:

    Most people on this board are moles for the democrats. They find it difficult to engage in any intelligent discourse, except to mud sling, point fingers and use foul language to denigrate the independent minded blogger. The only thing the democrats can do is to accuse Mcain of being George Bush and that a vote for him is a vote for Bush. BREAKING NEWS! George Bush aint on the ballot in November, so democrats, get a grip of yourself. Obama looks more like a rock star promoting sales of his latest song than a serious leader running for president. It was during the 2nd debate, when after it was all over he stayed behind to sign autographs and take pictures with his ‘fans’. To think that CNN was hoodwinked by that lame move of his really baffled me and lowered their rating in the eyes of viewers. Governance is serious business and not a popularity contest. I should know, because in my country we have ‘elected’ quite a few inept leaders basically on charm and slickiness but sadly no substance. I have also observed have sadly been hoodwinked to believe that Obama cares for the Middle class/working people because he happens to mouth that term ever so often in conversations no matter how inappropriate. He is only using it to get votes, and sadly it is not equivalent to having empathy for the middle class and working people
    There is no substitute for experience and that maxim is more poignant during difficult times like this. the greatest injustice these generation of americans could do to the coming generations, is to elect a president basically on rethoric, charm and the over arching influence of the electronic media to spin half truths and concot bogus poll figures..
    America is at a threshold and the choice is theirs to elect a competent, experienced, firm, steady and i admit boring leader to provide effective and sustainable leadership..or to appoint a smooth talking inexperienced novice on a personal journey of self discovery

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  • 133. At 11:46am on 10 Oct 2008, wheredawhitewimmenat wrote:

    #130

    Sorry, forgot to add Schwerpunkt (#110) in my list of people who reduce me to tears of laughter.

    In which socialist republic did you live, comrade? The People's Republic of Sweden? The Democratic Socialist Republic of the Netherlands?

    Countries that provide support, social security, or a form of safety net for all its citizens aren't "socialist" - they're civilised nations.

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  • 134. At 11:46am on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:



    # 126 Dubbuh

    Thank you for that little exercise in the politics of contempt.

    There are other such exercises wandering around the web but in reverse. White rednecks giving us the benefit of their deep thoughts ........ but we'll leave you to find them yourself.

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  • 135. At 11:54am on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    89 bluejay60 wrote:

    "Some states apparently are discussing whether foreclosed homeowners meet residency requirements to vote."

    Which ones would they be, I wonder?

    (AFAIK in the UK, you only need to have an address. This doesn't necessarily have to be a house, even, I think, since the Royal Mail once happily delivered post to green protesters living in a tree, I remember. They even gave it a postcode. Only convicted prisoners, members of the House of Lords and anyone convicted of electoral fraud in the previous 5 years cannot vote.)

    Oh, this is one of those supposed evil "socialist" countries that apparently isn't a proper democracy . . .

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  • 136. At 12:56pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #55

    Here is the double standard

    TrooperGate today
    Rezkko senatnacing postponed
    Stevens trial going on despite prosecution misconduct
    W coming out two weeks before election

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  • 137. At 12:58pm on 10 Oct 2008, jcputn5349 wrote:

    It is a lie that McCain-Palin have inflamed the American people against socialists in the United States. We don’t need prodding for that. Also, the Democratic Party has PO'd us to a level I've never witnessed in my life, and there is no turning it back.

    Pelosi refused to hear us over energy this past summer. Remember? She said things to citizens like “What? You want to drill here, drill now? How about drill your heads!” And she would not let us have an up or down vote on energy. She frustrated the will of the people. Then, Obama told us to inflate our tires: "Let them eat cake!" Next, we had this bail out that has resulted in a power shift from the legislative to the executive. People who understand our form of government realize what has happened, and we are mourning. Democrat Paulson is talking about taking over healthy banks. Citizens are talking about pulling out of the banking system. We know Democrats, who engineered the bail out, created the problem in the first place by interfering in our free market. We are livid. We want socialists to leave our country because we are good citizens and faithful to our country. We think those Democrats should be tried for treason and thrown in prison in Cuba.

    The Socialists in the country (MSM and Democrat Party leaders) don’t get the American people because we don’t respond as the Dem Party's dependent and mindless voting blocks do. Our minds and bodies cannot be controlled by them. That's why they hate us. That's why they caricaturize and misrepresent us every time and all the time. That's why they consistently blame our only representatives in the government in order to marginalize and silence dissent to their absolute rule. We have stood in their way to absolute control. Will you help them or us with your words and prayers?

    After those two actions from Congress (oil and bailout) plus the Dem party shoving a Socialist radical for president on the American people, I predict a volcano of anger at the federal government to erupt in the form of a tax revolt where people will refuse to work in order to avoid paying taxes as a slave.

    The US government HAS gone too far for many Americans. We feel we have been challenged to the core of our beings, to take our country back now or never, and we are in a war for our lives. We feel our own US government has betrayed us. We feel the US government has established a Democratic Party Absolutism for the purposes of destroying our free market and everything that is good in the USA.

    Of course, we are going to be angry with our socialist enemies in the US government. It’s the patriotic and reasonable thing to do. Any member of the Greatest Generation during WWII would be angry and wouldn't sit around and watch it happen silently. If our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan marched against Washington Democrats, I would support them as our defenders. Democrats should be scared. They have stirred up regular everyday American citizens against them, the kind who never protest in a-million-man-march because they are too busy working, supporting their own, and paying UNJUST US taxes. The Dems stirred up their worst nightmare. Forget the riots if Obama doesn’t win. It’s our turn, we’re taking it, and our anger is a mature one.

    When all we love about our country has been taken from us, what do we have to lose?

    Consider that the chaos in the free market financial system is a reaction to the hint of a socialist as president of the USA. People please pray for our freedom in the USA and for the defeat of socialism everywhere.



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  • 138. At 12:59pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    Question for Obama supporters:

    Must he subject the American public to a 30 minute informercial during primetime and during the World Series?

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  • 139. At 1:04pm on 10 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    132. At 11:40am on 10 Oct 2008, icetayoa wrote:
    Most people on this board are moles for the democrats.


    Are moles democrats? What about racoons?

    "They find it difficult to engage in any intelligent discourse, except to mud sling, point fingers and use foul language to denigrate the independent minded blogger."

    And calling people moles is intelligent discourse is it?

    " The only thing the democrats can do is to accuse Mcain of being George Bush and that a vote for him is a vote for Bush. BREAKING NEWS! George Bush aint on the ballot in November, so democrats, get a grip of yourself. "

    No but McCain is and the tactic is working wonderfully - just look at the reaction it gets from you.

    "Obama looks more like a rock star promoting sales of his latest song than a serious leader running for president. It was during the 2nd debate, when after it was all over he stayed behind to sign autographs and take pictures with his ?fans?. To think that CNN was hoodwinked by that lame move of his really baffled me and lowered their rating in the eyes of viewers."

    Hmmm but you just said he signed a lot of autographs and had photos taken. That means he is unpopular to you?

    " Governance is serious business and not a popularity contest. "

    But an election is. In fact that's all it is.

    "I should know, because in my country we have ?elected? quite a few inept leaders basically on charm and slickiness but sadly no substance. I have also observed have sadly been hoodwinked to believe that Obama cares for the Middle class/working people because he happens to mouth that term ever so often in conversations no matter how inappropriate. He is only using it to get votes,"


    Really. "To get votes" really, in an election, a politician says something to get votes. Wow.

    This really is intelligent discourse.

    "and sadly it is not equivalent to having empathy for the middle class and working people
    There is no substitute for experience"

    Well intelligence is a pretty good substitute. Look at Bush.

    "and that maxim is more poignant during difficult times like this. the greatest injustice these generation of americans could do to the coming generations, is to elect a president basically on rethoric, charm and the over arching influence of the electronic media to spin half truths and concot bogus poll figures.."

    Oh dear sounds like you do not have confidence in the American electorate. Maybe you should go to Belorussia or CHina where they do not have elections?

    "America is at a threshold "

    And who brought it there?

    "and the choice is theirs to elect a competent, experienced, firm, steady and i admit boring leader to provide effective and sustainable leadership..or to appoint a smooth talking inexperienced novice on a personal journey of self discovery"

    ell that is the choice in your eyes.

    Others might say the choice is betweeen a deeply compromised, political has-been with doubtfull judgement, and a fresh, sharly intelligent, self-made man with a clear visiion for his country.



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  • 140. At 1:06pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    Hurley's. 48th and 8th. I'll be blogging.

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  • 141. At 1:10pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #105

    Yes.

    Simple Sam

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  • 142. At 1:16pm on 10 Oct 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    #132

    "Most people on this board are moles for the democrats. They find it difficult to engage in any intelligent discourse, except to mud sling, point fingers and use foul language to denigrate the independent minded blogger."

    Okay a mole implies some sort of covert operative, people on here are pretty clear about where they stand, and as for the rest of that comment well this blog has been one of the more considered and polite.

    "The only thing the democrats can do is to accuse Mcain of being George Bush and that a vote for him is a vote for Bush. BREAKING NEWS! George Bush aint on the ballot in November,"

    Thank you but I think you find most people here are aware of that. What they mean is that vote for McCain is a vote for four more years of Bush's POLICIES, and so in effect four more years of Bush, get it?

    "America is at a threshold and the choice is theirs to elect a competent, experienced, firm, steady and i admit boring leader to provide effective and sustainable leadership..or to appoint a smooth talking inexperienced novice on a personal journey of self discovery"

    If McCain were competent, experienced, firm and steady then many of the people posting in this blog would be a great deal more sanguine about the prospect of a McCain presidency, problem is that in recent weeks he has admitted he has little knowledge about, and hence little experience of, the economy. He has also demonstrated himself to be erratic and short tempered rather than steady or firm, and lets not even get into his choice of VP candidate...

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  • 143. At 1:17pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #113

    Gordon Brown.

    Succinct Sam

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  • 144. At 1:24pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #16

    It doesn;t add up because you are getting your data from the wrong places.

    Birth certificate, resolved. Seen, photgraphed, checked and double checked. It's real.

    Advisors, not the old guard at all. Mostly progressive intellectuals and some folks from Chicago.

    It does add up.

    Looking forwards to the Palin report today.

    Mathematical Sam

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  • 145. At 1:28pm on 10 Oct 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    Question:
    If the 'Troopergate' report comes out and says 'yes Sarah palin did abuse her powers' then what does McCain do? And before any Palin fans fly off the handle I'm not really expecting it to say that, most likely outcome is a long winded version of 'we're not sure what happened' I'm just asking what if...?

    Oh and MagicKirin you should check out the page on this website about 'W'; it doesn't appear to be the hatchet job you're imagining.

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  • 146. At 1:34pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #117.

    JP,

    You forgot about ammo. You'll be needing a lot of ammo. And a big case of Rem Oil. I suggest you go to Cabelas now. Get gas on the way.

    Bunker Sam

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  • 147. At 1:38pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #138,

    Magic,

    Yes. We had to watch the crazies lecturing McGnome yesterday on CNN. It's only fair to have a nice reasonable man to balance it out.

    BTW, what's the betting he doesn't mention McGnome once? 30 minutes of 'This is what we are going to do'. Brilliant.

    Excited Sam

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  • 148. At 1:40pm on 10 Oct 2008, paul939 wrote:

    #137 jcputn5349

    Wow, you seem to have a warped view of socialism. That's the first time I've heard that Paulson is a Democrat. He's the treasury secretary, and a member of the REPUBLICAN party (see here for information). And getting energy is not as easy as just going and drilling somewhere. You say the crisis was created by the democrats interfering with the free market. Are you kidding? The market crashed because of non-regulation. This non-regulation spirit was pushed by the republicans. You have absolutely no idea about socialism. You are right, you will not allow democrats to control you, because you are being controlled by republicans.

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  • 149. At 1:45pm on 10 Oct 2008, Candace9839 wrote:

    The only plugging away will be his exit stage left so the rest of us can get on with cleaning up the economic mess of the last eight years.

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  • 150. At 1:54pm on 10 Oct 2008, Tramp wrote:

    Will all those opposing socialism literally implode with rage when Bush nationalises the banks next week?

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  • 151. At 1:57pm on 10 Oct 2008, rushwas wrote:

    Re. Aqua post #52,

    You are so right, and the horrifying truth is that this evil you describe is so subtle and pervasive - it's difficult to know what can be done to drive it out.

    The kids who your adopted grand child faces every day with their racial abuse and degradation, are overt and direct examples of how racism permeates every human interaction within our world.

    This may not be widely known - or widely accepted – and I almost don’t want to say this for fear it might be taken out of context or not fully understood – but we, in the US and UK and the rest of Europe can not – must not – underestimate the impact colonialism has had on the psyche of all blacks and all whites.

    It impacts on every decision, every interaction, every inequality, how we use language - to empower or undermine/to elevate or degrade/ to create fear and thereby control or to unify - in our world.

    If I could express all this in a succinct and coherent way, I gladly would, instead, I would urge you all to start with the following:

    Read:
    Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome – Dr Joy DeGruy Leary.

    Get in touch with:
    The People’s Institute for Survival and Beyond and find out more about their ‘Undoing Racism’ training – it’s essential to every human being with a conscience.

    To people of compassion and understanding I urge you:
    * We must all – incessantly, continually – question our intentions and motives towards our fellow human beings.

    * Be really vigilant about the above.

    * Be willing to accept we’ve all been hurt by racism – and are STILL hurting – and be willing to change in order to heal from the damage caused.

    -- I’m sorry if this comes across as touchy-feely nonsense, but if we don’t acknowledge and recognise this we will NEVER move forward together as one people-one world.

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  • 152. At 2:20pm on 10 Oct 2008, wheredawhitewimmenat wrote:

    Sarah Palin in populist rather than social conservative shock: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/10/uselections2008-sarahpalin1

    OK, it's in The Grauniad so may offend those of you of a right-wing bent but it's an enlightening piece.....

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  • 153. At 2:22pm on 10 Oct 2008, RedWhiteandermblue wrote:

    First, thanks moderateobserver for

    "We conservatives are sending a powerful, inadvertent message with this negative campaign...that we don?t care about the economic issues that are worrying American voters."

    Absolutely right. The "Too Risky" ad is hilarious. Too risky? Compared to what? Staying the course?

    Once again, if you're in a deep, dark hole, you want a prospective leader to talk about how he's going to get you out of it. If you hear him talking about what nasty friends the other prospective leader has, you're going to think, what kind of a jerk is this?

    The election remains winnable for McCain, but he has to start talking about how he'll fix the economy, and keep talking about it, and he's got to act as if he cares. The door is open because Obama needs to do this as well, and hasn't.

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  • 154. At 2:29pm on 10 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    I don't think McCain has a chance to win and I'll be voting for him. Why you might ask, because I find Senator Obama contrary to my self, politically and religiously. I've read thousands of words, his plan, his books and his speeches, and the morphing of his past into the person he pretends to be do not add up. He almost sounded like a moderate leaning conservative in the last debate, so far different than we 'know' him to be.

    Sure Senator Obama has many good positions, but I question his honest marrage to them. Just in the last year he has left his church of twenty years, where his children were baptised for petes sake, distanced himself from friends, pastors and church family because they shed a shadow of who he 'really' is. (?)

    And then the supporters of BHO, I don't mind honest debate and sharing of opinion, but the likes of jf, goleoo, and so many others that resort to name calling , insulting and ofensive attacks, turns me off from Obama even more.

    16. OldSouth

    A voice of reason. I also am no fan of McCain but find Obamas connections and questionable unanswered past odd. Not one previous girlfriend, no friends, teachers, co-workers or family to hold opinions or listen to, just the pastors and political alies of ill repute.


    52. aquarizonagal

    I sort of understand, my grandson lives with his mom and dad, but his questions require more thought from me. I also am more concerned of the world he will grow into. May God bless you more than he already has.

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  • 155. At 2:32pm on 10 Oct 2008, RedWhiteandermblue wrote:

    "They find it difficult to engage in any intelligent discourse, except to mud sling, point fingers and use foul language to denigrate the independent minded blogger."

    This goes to the heart of my concerns about this country. I believe that if you read my posts, you will see that I'm interested in making reasoned arguments, based on evidence and/or logic, that I apologize when I'm wrong, and that I actually hope people point out the errors I make because then I can learn something.

    I believe that this attitude is vital to a free and democratic republic, and that it is becoming less common. In fact, I see many leftish types who more or less live up to the generalization above. But the right remain the most common offenders, I believe, and I also believe they are the most common offenders by far.

    The example above is in fact illustrative. there is an endless sense of grievance and self-pity, a frightening thing if you know how well both were used by the Nazis, a frightening self-righteousness and a perfect willingness to tar all who oppose the writer with the same brush.

    The larger issue is not that I see this as more typical of the right, but that it is becoming more typical, period. I fear for the republic.

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  • 156. At 2:34pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #145


    First I've seen the previews and the synopsis.

    Oliver Stome is producing it (JFK anyone)
    Second Look at all the caritures of the people
    Third In all fairness(and yes life is not fair) they should have held the release untill after Nov 4

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  • 157. At 2:47pm on 10 Oct 2008, lewvdc wrote:

    I find it amusing to read some comments of American posters that Europe is a sort of a collection of socialist states.

    Well, I can help you out of that dream. It isn't. I am originally from The Netherlands and currently live in the UK. I have lived in Germany and Austria before. I would hardly call these countries 'socialist'. The Netherlands and the UK particularly are classic capitalist states.

    What is however very different to the American model, is that in these countries there is a general agreement that public services such as health care and education are a basic right, not a privilege as Mr McCain has put it. There is also a sense in countries like Germany and the Netherlands, not so much in the UK though, that de-regulation is not always or entirely beneficial to the wider public. In Europe, particularly West-Europe and the Scandinavian countries, providing basic care, access to education and health services, and safe guarding your human rights and helping people that are in need is a basic principle for which most are happy to pay taxes. It helps to keep people healthy, a country socially stable and creates equal opportunities for all.

    You are free to call this 'socialist' but I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.

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  • 158. At 2:47pm on 10 Oct 2008, FinMember wrote:

    It interesting how gop is scared silly by "socialism. They are sure it will destroy the great USA where you can lose everything througha serious illness in your family. I have lived in several countries and the socialist states like Finland, Sweden and Canada have higher standards of living and more freedom than the people of the USA. (I am not so sure about Britain.) In Scandinavia everyone has a personal number or ID it doesn't seem to affect our freedoms.

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  • 159. At 3:14pm on 10 Oct 2008, frayedcat wrote:

    Pleeez Noooooo...McCain/Palin are increasingly a scary combo of vacuous/insane...I couldn't bear it

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  • 160. At 3:19pm on 10 Oct 2008, moderate_observer wrote:

    i see a lot of talk about socialism in this blog, mainly form mccain suporters accusing the democratic party of pushing a socialist agenda. It must be selective memory because for the last 8 years the republicans controlled the senate and house for 6 of those years, and we all know the white house has been republican for the last 8 years.

    I suppose they conveniently forgot that spending and the size of government has increased significantly under their governance.

    Currently Mccain supporters are accusing democrats of pushing a socialist bill (bailout) but they ignore it was proposed by the president and voted for by Mccain.

    We all know there will be no socialism in the USA, not as long democracy exists to push any perceived socialists out. so really bringing up socialism seems to just play on old cold war fears of the past.

    What i find very strange about the electorate is this:

    they dont want the government to interfere , they want their taxes cut or to pay none at all, but when bridges break, or when food inspections arnt done(because of lack of funding) and their is a breakout of e.coli ),
    when the education system is struggling, they ask why isnt the government doing anything.

    then i dont understand, if as a party you believe the government should be out of the lives of the people, then why are you running for office. if you believe your role is to do nothing then why do you exist? is it to collect a salary and benefits? what is your role?

    This currently is my confusion about the contradictions of the republican party, im hoping a few who knows more than I do will try to explain.

    personally i hate when idealogy trumps good sense, and so im trying to make sense of this particular concept



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  • 161. At 3:19pm on 10 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "156. At 2:34pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    Third In all fairness(and yes life is not fair) they should have held the release untill after Nov 4"

    Why? Is there something in the consitution forbidding criticism of Republicans in film?

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  • 162. At 3:23pm on 10 Oct 2008, paul939 wrote:

    #154 DougTexan

    I'm rooting for obama, though I can't vote (I live in India). I though agree with some of your arguments. But at the end I'll say, Elect the guy who won't do a worse job than the other guy.

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  • 163. At 3:24pm on 10 Oct 2008, goleooo wrote:

    Dear Fin member

    In the USA we don't know what socialism is. When people think of socialism they think of the cold war.


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  • 164. At 3:26pm on 10 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "154. At 2:29pm on 10 Oct 2008,

    Sure Senator Obama has many good positions, but I question his honest marrage to them. Just in the last year he has left his church of twenty years, where his children were baptised for petes sake, distanced himself from friends, pastors and church family because they shed a shadow of who he 'really' is. (?)"

    What has that got to do with anything?

    Are you sure your judgement is not based on a more visual factor.

    "And then the supporters of BHO, I don't mind honest debate and sharing of opinion, but the likes of jf, goleoo, and so many others that resort to name calling , insulting and ofensive attacks, turns me off from Obama even more. "

    Obama has been called a terrorist , his wife has been insulted on national media and some have called for his assassination. One prominent republican even tried to joke about it.

    Tell us do you think these comments are acceptable because of who Obama is.

    "A voice of reason. I also am no fan of McCain but find Obamas connections and questionable unanswered past odd. Not one previous girlfriend, no friends, teachers, co-workers or family to hold opinions or listen to, just the pastors and political alies of ill repute."

    How many girlfriends does he need not to be odd in your eyes?

    And maybe soem people from his past, given the threats Obama has received, are a bit hesitant to speak openly.

    Do you judge white candidates on the number of their girlfirends, or their willingness to talk?

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  • 165. At 3:30pm on 10 Oct 2008, goleooo wrote:

    Doug

    "I find Senator Obama contrary to my self, politically and religiously"

    what is your religion?
    politically I won't bother asking, because of course OBAMA is a democrat so why in the wide world would he want to be a republican?

    but what is your religion?

    let's talk about this religion of yours and how it is different than Obama's, shall we.

    what is your religion.

    also....

    what do you know of McCain? Do you know about McCain's ties?

    personally I don't care what you think of Obama. I don't care about obama myself. I care about the vision he has. I don't care about any leader.

    ALbert Einstein was a mere clerk in Switzerland who ended up being the most brilliant man in history.

    people like you judge books by the cover without reading the pages sir.

    As far as namecalling, have you watched any mccain ads lately? or palin speeches?
    that's the people who identify with you, so using your own logic

    tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are....you are like Palin, ignorant. you are like McCain, a man of no honor and dignity and I can go on and on...

    i am glad however it hurts you when I namecall you...now pretend you were Obama or his children, and tell me how you feel...

    clever man...and you are religious...???

    I can tell.

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  • 166. At 3:31pm on 10 Oct 2008, Schwerpunkt wrote:

    115. eightypercent wrote:


    # 110 ~ Schwerpunkt

    Well, that post was full of the milk of human kindess and Christian goodness.

    Well I don't pretend to be a Christian and I don't see that throwing money at those who feel entitled yet do nothing for themselves falls under 'kindness' either.

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  • 167. At 3:32pm on 10 Oct 2008, seanspa wrote:

    Everything's going to be OK. Things are on the rebound. We are saved.

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  • 168. At 3:36pm on 10 Oct 2008, Schwerpunkt wrote:

    124. eightypercent wrote:

    "In an idle moment I typed the word schwerpunkt into the search engine.

    The result illuminated."

    Really? I have used schwerpunkt as a moniker online ever since the mid-90s when I was compelled to change from my previous "The Outlaw" - taken as I really like the Eagles song of the same name (write some conspiracy into that if you wish).

    I tihnk you seek more significance in my moniker than I havd in choosing it. But then from what I have read from Obama's apostles, sorry supporters, anyone who has not "discovered" joy with him is a non-believer and part of some conspiracy.

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  • 169. At 3:37pm on 10 Oct 2008, samuellink232 wrote:

    Hello dear readers,

    I spent time reading some many comments from you guys out there. I am not an American and I never intend to be an American. I have a question for you Americans, during the second debate,a question was thrown to McCain as the President of America,incase if Iran attacked Isreal will you wait untill the UN give the mandate to attack Iran before you do that,his answer was.
    No, we cannot wait untill the UN gives us the mandate before we do. Here is my question,America ignored the UN and went into Iraq even though the entire world was aginst that decision,America distroyed Iraq today.

    So if you American will not abide by the mandate of the so call UN, why do we have this UN for God sake?

    God make America what it is today, remember God usually put some one in a position for a reason,may be for him to be of help to others.likewise America today,God made you great nation does not mean that you will use your ammunition to terroise other nation in the name of fighting terro.America claim to be fighting for freedom or fighting against dictatorship whereas America is just one nation where you have dictatorship, they dictate for other nations what they should do and no one dictate to Americans what they will do.

    America try to export the so call democrazy world wide,America encourages all kinds of devilish activities and they want other nations to copy their crazy style.

    Which of the pass American president had ever stood trial? if not, I will like to see Bush stand trial at the end of his office for what he did to the peaceful people of Iraq.

    This election is very important not only to the American people,but for the entire world.We are tired of living in a world of fear just for the sake of you Americans,we are living in a new world of internet,Cnn,BBC etc.The way America was critcising Russia for bully Georgia because of their Minitry might,is the same America is bully other nations

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  • 170. At 3:42pm on 10 Oct 2008, soccermum wrote:

    Raila Odinga and Obama

    Raila is Obama's cousin and Obama endorsed him in the 2007 election . This is Obama's latest skeleton and the scariest. Youtube and other news sources have reported on this but it has been widely ignored until recently.
    In the United States, you would be unfit to become a police or federal officer if you had the associations that Obama does. Both parties
    offered poor choices , but Obama is by far the scariest. He can articulate well and looks great, is that what we're voting on? Raila Odinga, look it up.

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  • 171. At 3:47pm on 10 Oct 2008, Schwerpunkt wrote:

    133. wheredawhitewimmenat wrote:

    "In which socialist republic did you live, comrade? The People's Republic of Sweden? The Democratic Socialist Republic of the Netherlands?

    Countries that provide support, social security, or a form of safety net for all its citizens aren't "socialist" - they're civilised nations."


    That would be the United Kingdom in answer to your first question.

    In response to your second a safety net may be a good thing. But a safety net without end? Which also allows people claiming such benefits to have new carpets, cookers, TVs, refrigerators paid for with a government loan which they need not pay back unless they get a job? Items they are deemed to be able to replace with such loans every 3 to 10 years (depending on the particular item in question).

    It is one thing to ensure a family is provided for when the main breadwinners are not able to provide due to being between employment. I feel no obligation to pay for those who choose to sit back and let the state carry them as a 'career' though.

    Such a ridiculous state of affairs does happen in the UK, which I would not term one of the more extreme applicators of socialism. As I said, once in place it is nearly impossible to undo. Even Margaret Thatcher, who is well know for slicing through many constraints did not tackle it.

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  • 172. At 3:47pm on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:

    # 157 Lewvdc

    A thoughtful and honest post from someone who knows what they are talking about.

    And it does sound as though McCain has made a terrible mistake by allowing his supporters to go off on one about the concept of socialism and whatever he means by it.

    From what Bush was saying outside the White House, it would seem that investing directly in the banks, as Britain did, is the best way to go. So instead of wisely holding back, as any potential leader should do, McCain has unleashed this barrage of fury against the only hope that is left for the American economy.

    The $700 million bailout money seems to be untouched, and is there to be brought into use in the most effective way possible.

    We now wait to see what happens next but the US is going to have to accept that there are many forms of socialism, most of them benign. I believe that people are being encouraged to confuse it with communism - which is a concept of the past.

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  • 173. At 3:52pm on 10 Oct 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    "Third In all fairness(and yes life is not fair) they should have held the release untill after Nov 4"

    Magickirin I do hope you're not suggesting Oliver Stone should abridge his 1st Amendment rights because the film has a political message? Even if it were a non-stop attack on Bush and the Republicans it is a cinematic film, people are going to have to pay to see it(or actively seek out out a knock off download but that's another blog...). How many of those who actually choose to go were likely to vote Republican in the elections anyway? Suggesting the film should be held back is a slippery slope...

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  • 174. At 3:53pm on 10 Oct 2008, kburns_ireland wrote:

    Optimistic, perhaps. The economic news isn't getting any better, despite the bailout - and the established pattern is that Obama is more trusted on economic issues. McCain has thus tried to make this a 'cultural' election once again - but I'm not convinced the electorate see it that way.

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  • 175. At 4:04pm on 10 Oct 2008, Xie_Ming wrote:

    # 151

    Racism is inevitable, IF children are brought up to consider someone of a different color an outsider.

    As a child in Honolulu, I observed and felt none of that- in retrospect, it would seem impossible in that environment.
    __________________________-

    All over the World, people consider the stranger and different ideas or cultures a threat.

    This is human nature.

    In more isolated places (as in the US Bible Belt), it is ingrained as part of the reality with which the World is perceived.

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  • 176. At 4:10pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #161

    I'm not saying ban it but you have to admidt it is a docudrama and it is a Bash Bush film.

    And since one of the Democrats main arguments is that McCain is Bush 3, the realease should have been delayed.

    If Obama nation which is more fact based than W was made into a movie and released next week you would be howling

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  • 177. At 4:16pm on 10 Oct 2008, cyrilcroydon wrote:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/3167558/Barack-Obamas-race-remains-an-issue-in-swing-state-Ohio.html

    This is very depressing and perhaps the only real reason why McCain may still win. If race does bring down Obama, there could be chaos on the streets.

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  • 178. At 4:26pm on 10 Oct 2008, goleooo wrote:

    samuellink

    i can say that I can agree with much you said except your 2nd paragraph

    "God make America what it is today, remember God usually put some one in a position for a reason,may be for him to be of help to others.likewise America today,God made you great nation does not mean that you will use your ammunition to terroise other nation in the name of fighting terro.America claim to be fighting for freedom or fighting against dictatorship whereas America is just one nation where you have dictatorship, they dictate for other nations what they should do and no one dictate to Americans what they will do."

    God made America?????

    enough said. you know what I mean if you can ask questions about the UN and America.

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  • 179. At 4:32pm on 10 Oct 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    A few minutes ago, while watching a speech delivered by Sen. Obama focused on the need to unify our country and work together to overcome the problems that afflict us I couldn't help thinking about the difference in style and clarity between what he was articulating and the divisive messages of hatred from the McCain/Palin campaign that is bringing our society to the verge of civil unrest. Another detail that I couldn't help noticing was the secret agents that nervously moved behind the podium glancing in all directions.

    I used to admire Sen. McCain's moderate and bipartisan congressional record and his military service, today I would rather vote for Mickey Mouse than John McCain. He should be ashamed for his role in inciting, or as a minimum, condoning the level of hatred that is coming out of his campaign team. I find the cries of "kill him, kill him" from his adoring fans very disturbing. What kind of people are these? How can they possibly call themselves Christians? I am now an agnostic, but I don't recall reading anything about Jesus articulating such thoughts when I attended Jesuit and Franciscan schools decades ago. Shame on those who advocate the most despicable act that can be carried our by a human being in the name of their prophet!

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  • 180. At 4:32pm on 10 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    FYI, I am not a Black Reformist Christian, I don't even know what that is other than something about 'chickens coming home roost' and 'God damning America',.. No sir, not my religion.

    I can tell you though, I've been in the same church for a lifetime, half a century better by a couple, and I've no reason to quit my church, leave my church family or disown them for any reason. I'd say my church says who I am, would defend it and have.

    I also have defended his right to belong to his own religion, and he has disowned it because it(his church) says to America what he believes. He believes in expediency and hiding to become President through diversion and deception of who he IS.

    Ah,.. IS. Makes me think of Clinton, that depends on what the definition of is, is. I don't know about you, but I like Clinton, even named one of my dogs after him, best darn dog I ever had. A wolf called Baloo is now my oldest dog, then I got GW a few years ago, an abandoned black wierner dog/mix. Add to them a little black dog called McCain, a schnosser or something mutt, also abandoned on my property a few weeks ago. A real fighter, he was almost starved dead and covered with fleas, I call him a war survivor, abandoned, struggled and lived, thus McCain.

    just speech's, just words.....

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  • 181. At 4:34pm on 10 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "171. At 3:47pm on 10 Oct 2008, Schwerpunkt wrote:

    "In response to your second a safety net may be a good thing. But a safety net without end? Which also allows people claiming such benefits to have new carpets, cookers, TVs, refrigerators paid for with a government loan which they need not pay back unless they get a job? Items they are deemed to be able to replace with such loans every 3 to 10 years (depending on the particular item in question)."

    You prefer them to beg in the streets?

    "It is one thing to ensure a family is provided for when the main breadwinners are not able to provide due to being between employment. I feel no obligation to pay for those who choose to sit back and let the state carry them as a 'career' though."

    Very very few people, despite the propaganda ever do this. Jobs pay far more for one thing.

    "Such a ridiculous state of affairs does happen in the UK, which I would not term one of the more extreme applicators of socialism. As I said, once in place it is nearly impossible to undo. Even Margaret Thatcher, who is well know for slicing through many constraints did not tackle it."

    Well if you want to know what happens when you leave people without any form of staying alive then look at those socieites where the indigent are left to starve.


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  • 182. At 4:38pm on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    138. At 12:59pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
    Question for Obama supporters:

    Must he subject the American public to a 30 minute informercial during primetime and during the World Series?

    ----------------------------------
    Good and why not?

    You've interrupted all reasonable dialog here many times with your brand of zionism gone deranged.

    Oh and the Guy you want to get elected put a barking barbie on the ticket.
    Now mods barking because she yaps and attacks like a Chihuahua and barbie because she is a fragile china doll.

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  • 183. At 4:39pm on 10 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "170. At 3:42pm on 10 Oct 2008, victoriausa wrote:
    Raila Odinga and Obama

    Raila is Obama's cousin and Obama endorsed him in the 2007 election . This is Obama's latest skeleton and the scariest. Youtube and other news sources have reported on this but it has been widely ignored until recently.
    In the United States, you would be unfit to become a police or federal officer if you had the associations that Obama does."

    Is that so? Can you tell us the statute which satates you cannot be a law enforcement officer because of what your cousin does?

    I only ask because Al Capone's brother was a prohibition officer, and he was not sacked because of who his borther was.

    "Raila Odinga, look it up."

    Yes very scary, just look at him. Another Black Politician, very worrying.



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  • 184. At 4:39pm on 10 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    "Just speeches, just words,.." and that is one quote of Senator Obamas where the truth of his thinking becomes evident. And that is all politics and religion really are,.. whats missing is what you believe.

    So that said, I'd like to let those who are interested, this Sunday Night on Fox (OMG right wing news!!!) news at 9:00pm the Hannity and Colmes show will do an indepth history of Senator Obama. His friends, his professors, his past. Hahaha, can't say it with a straight face.

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  • 185. At 4:42pm on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    And MODS why is a post on"is biden a necessarily antidote ," ages ago just returning to my mail.
    Finally moderated it.

    Or the "weapon of choice"


    Me thinks the mods are slow.slower than an american president thoughts

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  • 186. At 4:45pm on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    176 did you ever think that If Mc Cryinggame wanted to seem different to bush he maybe should not have changed position to become Bush.

    or do you think saying it is enough.
    he's fake' insincere and no one can trust him.

    Oh and any film on bush would bash him,

    unless they live in your fantasy world

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  • 187. At 4:48pm on 10 Oct 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    #176 MagicKirin:

    "If Obama nation which is more fact based than W was made into a movie and released next week you would be howling"

    I might howl, I might rage at it, I might point out its factual errors, I might even suggest people see 'W' as a counterbalance but I certainly wouldn't ask for it to be withdrawn or suggest it be postponed, there are no winners if we go down that route.

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  • 188. At 4:49pm on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    176
    also by this token of thought from you majik FOX" news" should be taken off air until after the elections.
    Should never have been allowed.

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  • 189. At 4:50pm on 10 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "176. At 4:10pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
    ref #161

    I'm not saying ban it but you have to admidt it is a docudrama and it is a Bash Bush film."

    I think its a film and as such can take whatever stance it wants, when it wants.

    "And since one of the Democrats main arguments is that McCain is Bush 3, the realease should have been delayed."

    No still not clear, why? A book has been published trashing Obama, a numerous attack adds -are you suggesting these should not have been made?

    On what basis could you delay a film? Wouldn't that be unconstitutional and go against everything the US is supposed to stand for?

    "If Obama nation which is more fact based than W was made into a movie and released next week you would be howling"

    what of it? That still doesn't mean abrogating the constitution because soemone says something you don't like?

    Surely one is entitled to criticise a presdent, by flim email etc at any time in the US?

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  • 190. At 4:51pm on 10 Oct 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    The stock market does not like Barack Obama. I think that in part, its decline is in anticipation of him becoming President of the United States. He is anti business and has even less knowledge of economics than McCain. At least the market feels McCain will surround himself with people who know what business needs and how to meet those needs. The market doesn't know what kind of people Obama will surround himself with and fears the worst. My hunch is that they will get it too. Obama will take office if elected with two strikes against him insofar as the business and financial community is concerned. And he will inherit an economy that is a mess.

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  • 191. At 4:52pm on 10 Oct 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "170. Both parties
    offered poor choices , but Obama is by far the scariest."

    Interesting comment. A lot of people find people who look like Obama "scary".

    Did he not point out his own grandmother found young men of his physical appearance "scary"?

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  • 192. At 4:52pm on 10 Oct 2008, icetayoa wrote:

    The piece below copied from TIME online made interesting read.

    enjoy

    It's not easy to make the infamous Willie Horton ad from the 1988 presidential campaign seem benign. But suggesting that Barack Obama is the Antichrist might just do it.


    That's just what some outraged Christian supporters of the Democratic nominee are claiming John McCain's campaign did in an ad called "The One" that was recently released online. The Republican nominee's advisers brush off the charges, arguing that the spot was meant to be a "creative" and "humorous" way of poking fun at Obama's popularity by painting him as a self-appointed messiah. But even this innocuous interpretation of the ad — which includes images of Charlton Heston as Moses and culled clips that make Obama sound truly egomaniacal — taps into a conversation that has been gaining urgency on Christian radio and political blogs and in widely circulated e-mail messages that accuse Obama of being the Antichrist.

    The ad was the creation of Fred Davis, one of McCain's top media gurus as well as a close friend of former Christian Coalition head Ralph Reed and the nephew of conservative Oklahoma Senator James Inhofe. It first caught the attention of Democrats familiar with the Left Behind series, a fictionalized account of the end-time that debuted in the 1990s and has sold nearly 70 million books worldwide. "The language in there is so similar to the language in the Left Behind books," says Tony Campolo, a leading progressive Evangelical speaker and author.

    As the ad begins, the words "It should be known that in 2008 the world shall be blessed. They will call him The One" flash across the screen. The Antichrist of the Left Behind books is a charismatic young political leader named Nicolae Carpathia who founds the One World religion (slogan: "We Are God") and promises to heal the world after a time of deep division. One of several Obama clips in the ad features the Senator saying, "A nation healed, a world repaired. We are the ones that we've been waiting for."

    The visual images in the ad, which Davis says has been viewed even more than McCain's "Celeb" ad linking Obama to the likes of Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, also seem to evoke the cover art of several Left Behind books. But they're not the cartoonish images of clouds parting and shining light upon Obama that might be expected in an ad spoofing him as a messiah. Instead, the screen displays a sinister orange light surrounded by darkness and later the faint image of a staircase leading up to heaven.

    Perhaps the most puzzling scene in the ad is an altered segment from The 10 Commandments that appears near the end. A Moses-playing Charlton Heston parts the animated waters of the Red Sea, out of which rises the quasi-presidential seal the Obama campaign used for a brief time earlier this summer before being mocked into retiring it. The seal, which features an eagle with wings spread, is not recognizable like the campaign's red-white-and-blue "O" logo. That confused Democratic consultant Eric Sapp until he went to his Bible and remembered that in the apocalyptic Book of Daniel, the Antichrist is described as rising from the sea as a creature with wings like an eagle.

    Sapp knows that the phrasing and images could just be dismissed as a peculiar coincidence. After all, it was Oprah Winfrey who told an Iowa crowd that Obama was "the one!" But, he insists, "the frequency of these images and references don't make any sense unless you're trying to send the message that Obama could be the Antichrist." Mara Vanderslice, another Democratic consultant, who handled religious outreach for the 2004 Kerry campaign, agrees. "If they wanted to be funny, if they really wanted to play up the idea that Obama thinks he's the Second Coming, there were better ways to do it," she says. "Why use these awkward lines like, 'And the world will receive his blessings'?"

    Two months ago, Vanderslice founded a Democratic PAC called the Matthew 25 Network and soon noticed that the negative e-mails she received from conservative Christians fell into two general topical categories: abortion, and the assertion that Obama is the Antichrist. The cataloging of similarities Obama shares with the Antichrist began nearly two years ago. But it picked up steam in February 2008 after he racked up a string of impressive primary victories. A Google search for "Obama" and "Antichrist" turns up more than 700,000 hits, including at least one blog dedicated solely to the topic. A more obscure search for "Obama" and "Nicolae Carpathia" yields a surprising 200,000 references.

    It's not hard to see how some Obama haters might be tempted to make the comparison. In the Left Behind books, Carpathia is a junior Senator who speaks several languages, is beloved by people around the world and fawned over by a press corps that cannot see his evil nature, and rises to absurd prominence after delivering just one major speech. Hmmh. But serious Antichrist theorists don't stop there. Everything from Obama's left-handedness to his positive rhetoric to his appearance on the cover of this magazine has been cited as evidence of his true identity. One chain e-mail claims that the Antichrist was prophesied to be "A man in his 40s of MUSLIM descent," which would indeed sound ominous if not for the fact that the Book of Revelation was written at least 400 years before the birth of Islam.

    The speculation reached a fever pitch after Obama's European trip and the Berlin speech in which he called for global unity. Conservative Christian author Hal Lindsey declared in an essay on WorldNetDaily, "Obama is correct in saying that the world is ready for someone like him — a messiah-like figure, charismatic and glib ... The Bible calls that leader the Antichrist. And it seems apparent that the world is now ready to make his acquaintance." The conservative website RedState.com now sells mugs and T shirts that sport a large "O" with horns and the words "The Anti-Christ" underneath.

    Even if a fraction of the Internet-using public engages in outrageous Antichrist speculation, feeding those extreme beliefs wouldn't seem to be an obvious political strategy. But McCain advisers are aware that one of the goals of Democratic outreach to Evangelicals has been to simply neutralize their opposition. "You just have to take the edge off," says Michigan Democratic Party chair Mark Brewer, explaining why he spent much of a 2006 meeting with conservative pastors around his state. "Now that they've met me, they can see I don't have two horns and a tail."

    A new TIME poll finds that the most conservative Evangelicals are the least enthusiastic about McCain's candidacy. Convincing them that Obama does have two horns and a tail might be the best way of getting them to vote. That's what worries Campolo, who also sits on the Democratic Party's platform committee. "Those books have created a subliminal language, and I think judgments will be made unconsciously about Barack Obama," he says. "It scares the daylights out of me."

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  • 193. At 4:52pm on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    170
    are you sure you do not know any clan members?

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  • 194. At 4:54pm on 10 Oct 2008, U4466131 wrote:

    #104 jzelouise

    Interesting that. I'm a Brit as some of you know. My father who did the whole of WW11 starting from May 1939 and finally being allowed out in May 1946 had a comment about that. He was definitely a war hero, Spitfire pilot, DFC,(sorry Dinguished Flying Cross) wounded in action all of it.
    He never talked about the war except to say that from his experience most of them that did talk of it hadn't really been there. He had and felt it was definitely not to be talked about.
    It's your election not mine but McCain, from what I've seen and heard, sounds like a fraud to me and I certainly don't like what he did to his first wife. I wouldn't trust a man with those kind of personal ethics.

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  • 195. At 5:00pm on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    154 Dougee

    did we offend you.
    well guess what ? we don't care, no sorry I don't care.
    You have promoted lies and a lack of understanding at every opportunity.
    Even when your guy has picked the vacuous thing(mods edit anything else) who insults all intelligence and you still support Mc Cain.

    You have used the Hussain, The Osama , and every republican ploy.
    so good glad to offend you.

    your views are offensive to all civilised folk.
    hope your economy gets worse and hope the hurricanes come back.

    Sweetee

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  • 196. At 5:04pm on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    but good luck with the mutts


    and bs to you you were all hillery in the primaries, no obama , she lied like hell , but then you never saw that eh?

    Get real with your self .
    I read the same Bible when a Kid.
    Never said that guy can't rule because he's black.

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  • 197. At 5:05pm on 10 Oct 2008, pianne wrote:

    Please explain, what the rules are if something should happen to the nominated presidential candidate between now and Nov 4? Is it automatic that the VP candidate then becomes the presidential candidate?

    How is a new VP chosen in this situation? By the former VP himself (or, by herself) or by the parties?

    In many blogs people are expressing fears for Obama's safety. Security arrangements are by their very nature a well-kept secret, but one is curious about how many men and women work hard to keep the candidates alive till Nov 4?

    Pianne

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  • 198. At 5:07pm on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    181
    or would he prefer the "tramp" got TB got the beginnings of a prescription and then developed a whole new drug resistant TB.


    (happened)

    or they just die.

    and when the pox is breaking out and the sky is falling the sick coughing over you as they pass you on the streets, they won't matter either.

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  • 199. At 5:14pm on 10 Oct 2008, moderate_observer wrote:

    #176-magic

    Obama nation is sourced mainly from an american blogger in malaysia who is scared to his wits of islam(dont know why he is in malaysia then).

    Most of what that book is based on is pure speculation, if you take this book as fact then im sure you would consider lefty michael moore to be unbiased.

    most of what is to be covered in obama nation has already been proven to be false. for example things about his birth certificate.

    as for the film W, im not sure what his sources are, but there are many books out there written by people once close to the bush white house and his campaign that have claimed things very close to what is covered in this movie.

    Obama is a new comer to national politics and obviously has not led the typical politicians life (connected family or long military service) hence why there are so many rumours.


    Their are also palin rumours, alaska independence, babygate, and so on.



    im sure if anyone's life is held under the microscope you would not find a single public official without a blemish. especially McCain, with his notorious temper.


    we really have to take this stuff with a grain of salt because not everybody had the privelage to b raised in the limelight or given a free pass because of their parents affiliations like many of the more 'respected' politricktians.

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  • 200. At 5:19pm on 10 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    And doug I am offended by the constant lies from the gop.

    and the likes of you.
    for 2 years Obama has been out there.
    I heard the one lady from ohio saying Palin has been on more interviews than Obama.

    Obama did address answers more the McCain, who gets personal.
    Palin is as thick as two bricks,(ps snowman yesterday great song there)

    but you refuse to ever see anything in him.
    I was even ready to consider Mc Cain if Hillery was on the ticket, but then he went insane.


    Too many excuses I hear from the right. and they all come down to"do you know his middle name?

    "I can't trust him"

    did mccain lie to you?
    did sara lie to you?
    I'd have to say yes seeing as they lied to the nation several times.
    not because they were in a bind and had to face a rush of racism(as the wright affair) but because they chose too , out of the blue to "bare false witness against thy neighbour "

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  • 201. At 5:20pm on 10 Oct 2008, goleooo wrote:

    Doug, lets talk about what you said: In a civil way of course. don't mind the sarcasm however.

    "FYI, I am not a Black Reformist Christian, I don't even know what that is other than something about 'chickens coming home roost' and 'God damning America',.. No sir, not my religion."

    --Last time I checked there was no religion "God damning America" unless it is a new one. But what is your religion?

    "I can tell you though, I've been in the same church for a lifetime, half a century better by a couple, and I've no reason to quit my church, leave my church family or disown them for any reason. I'd say my church says who I am, would defend it and have."

    --Church? A group of people who share the same religion? Yes even the pagans had churches. The muslims have churches they call them mosques, the buddhists have churches they call them temples. So what's your point? Being on the same church for half a century, to me is like having the same friends for half a century. WOnderful but when you refer to religion do you refer to God or to church? Because connecting church to God is done only in your mind! Again what are you trying to say?

    "I also have defended his right to belong to his own religion, and he has disowned it because it(his church) says to America what he believes. He believes in expediency and hiding to become President through diversion and deception of who he IS."

    -his own religion? What do you perceive his religion to be? Why do you refuse to believe he is a christian? is that what your religion teaches you? to like and believe those that you personally like for whatever reason and call witches, terrorists, or heretics the rest? you seem to know a lot about Obama and what he believes? Do you know what you believe? How can you tell what someone else believes? Are you a psychic? a prophet of your churchy religion, perhaps? I hear there is a guy in miami who claims to be Jesus, believe it or not he seems to have some 100, 000 followers. Again my questions is : what is your point? other than not liking Obama for reasons you yourself don't know.

    As far as you dogs, I have no comment.

    I stand by my previous post.

    I will check back later to see your replies if any.

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  • 202. At 5:21pm on 10 Oct 2008, weezer25 wrote:

    I think a part of what we're suffering from here in the United States is the confusion of news with entertainment. People who are tuning into the likes of O'Reilly, Coulter, Franken and even Jon Stewart for their news are likely to get instead a quick injection of emotionally charged opinion-devoid of facts. And often devoid of truth as well.
    This problem is not a partisan one as both sides have there own respective figureheads propped up and delivering endless vitriol to fuel their audience. However, it does appear to be partisan in regards to this phenomenon's exploitation in the current presidential election. It is apparent in the Republican rallys and in the rhetoric of Gov. Palin. They've missed the boat on delivering the facts, solutions and strategies expected of people in their position and have fallen back on grown-up versions of schoolyard insults. Unfortunately, it seems there's a large group of people who matured in body, but not in mind and they're finding this very appealing. At a time when the people need guidance and protection, those running to lead the government responsible for providing such are too busy calling their opponent 'booger eater' and missing the boat altogether.

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  • 203. At 5:27pm on 10 Oct 2008, alanskillcole wrote:

    funny thing religion...a vindictive person oft has a vindictive view of the religion they imbibe...all this "the one"/antichrist/Revelations stuff in McCain's ads...these people would never dream of a non-hating/non-fire-and-brimstome god...certainly not take on board the beatitudes..

    Wherein Obama quotes "being my brother's keeper" that must seem like "socialism" to them...their funny belief structure/the mindset that they have to shoot something or invade someplace...

    As for "socialism", there was the documentary about the american mom fretting about her daughter's college education; and the finnish(I think) mom who she was speaking to - in whose country, if you were qualified, education was seen as a right not a privilege and, of course, these people benefitted/put something back into society. Much as universal healthacre - there was a safety net, you could be cured, go back into work, contribute to the economy...

    McCain and that woman probably think, like Maggie Thatcher, that there's no such thing as society.
    It's a Darwinian every man for himself...o, but they don't believe in that either...
    Planetarium is "foolishness" for him, who benefits - the nation's kids...grill a librarian about books to should be allowed...
    Reminds me of someone I knew who had a fit seeing cover of the "the naked ape"...her religious mind was so full of looking for sin, she thought it was porn! Perhaps, if she'd realised it was about us and more on the evolution track, she'd have blown a fuse anyhow...religion, eh! Little minds not comprehending what they read...heads filled with superstition, so much so there's no room for reading a newspaper/taking on diverse views. They don't even understand their own religion.

    Time seems like a cross between films "Cabaret" and "Inherit the wind" and radio play "Are you now or have you ever been"...

    Rather than end-of-times, they could look at own belief-system:

    "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

    Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

    Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

    Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

    Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

    Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

    Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. "

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  • 204. At 5:29pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #189

    You don't get it. I'm just saying delay it till after the election.

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  • 205. At 5:30pm on 10 Oct 2008, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    MAII (#190), the market (i.e. Wall Street) didn't like FDR, either. They hated him, but the people loved him and he made Wall Street take its medicine. We need another FDR right now, and I would like to see the Democrats follow in his spirit. I doubt they will, however. As much as the right-wing fearmongers like to paint Obama as a "socialist," he's a lot closer to the middle than FDR and he won't have the same freedom to give the moguls what they deserve.

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  • 206. At 5:33pm on 10 Oct 2008, newbriton wrote:

    What is wrong with this simplistic analysis is that whatever way you cut it the morass the US finds itself in now is the result of eight years of incompetent Republican leadership. Is York suggesting the voters' memory is so short that if the markets go up a tick before election day they'll vote the same party back into power. Surely the US electorate should be given more credit than that. The choice is clear - an old man with a cold war mentality past his best, or a young vibrant individual in concert with probably the most experienced international statesman, who together believe the US can once again be a respected world leader.

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  • 207. At 5:33pm on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#151Rushwas

    A beautiful post!

    Maybe I am sappy and naive but I share your sentiments. I will look for the resources you suggested. It is important to us that we raise our grandchild to be respectful of others and to always act with loving kindness. It grieves me to have to explain bigotry and prejudice to a young child.

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  • 208. At 5:33pm on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:




    # 190 Marcus - our expert on the economy, writes seven sentences which are factually wrong. His eighth and final sentence when he says that Obama "will inherit an economy which is in a mess" is correct.

    # 192 Icetayoa - too long. Nobody's going to plough through all that. This blog is for brief discussion not PhD theses.

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  • 209. At 5:34pm on 10 Oct 2008, goleooo wrote:

    190. At 4:51pm on 10 Oct 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    The stock market does not like Barack Obama. I think that in part, its decline is in anticipation of him becoming President of the United States. He is anti business and has even less knowledge of economics than McCain. At least the market feels McCain will surround himself with people who know what business needs and how to meet those needs. The market doesn't know what kind of people Obama will surround himself with and fears the worst. My hunch is that they will get it too. Obama will take office if elected with two strikes against him insofar as the business and financial community is concerned. And he will inherit an economy that is a mess.


    dear unintelligent liar who don't even know how to lie.

    check this site where facts prove people like you to be a waste of oxygen in this world.

    Economists Back Obama Overwhelmingly

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  • 210. At 5:35pm on 10 Oct 2008, RedWhiteandermblue wrote:

    Gentle readers, are you interested in discussing--calmly and rationally, if at all possible--one rather famous quote from Reverend Wright?"

    "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye.

    "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."

    Where, exactly, is he wrong? The vast majority of US citizens, it seems, feel that the suggestion that the US has sinned and deserves to be punished is abominable. But isn't just this line of thinking one finds repeatedly written about Isreal and Judah in the Old Testament? Perhaps it is no longer permissable to say things like this. Perhaps it never was. I don't know, but I am confused.

    Hearing one conservative commentator, Monica Crowley, speak, I came to the conclusion that, for her, all US foreign policy actions were, like the Pope, infallible. That is, to question the morality of anything the US did--amazingly enough, even actions by democratic presidents--amounted to something close to treason. Interestingly, also, the same president, Kennedy, who could not err, like all the rest, in foreign policy, still made, for her, nefarious mistakes a plenty in domestic policy.

    My question would be: what about Puerto Rico? Could using it as a bombing range have been wrong, considering its part of the US--or does the fact that it is not a state, and so in some sense foreign, keep all actions performed in it infallible.

    Finally, whatever one may think of the moral judgements of the speech, what is wrong with the chickens coming home to roost metaphor as metaphor? Wasn't bin Laden trained by the CIA, and so was, one might say, our chicken? Isn't it a fairly accurate trope, as tropes go, to say that by sending planes to the US, he flew home to roost on 9/11?

    Finally, I wonder most of all how many members are interested in answering these questions in a rational way.

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  • 211. At 5:43pm on 10 Oct 2008, jcputn5349 wrote:

    193? You mean like Congress member and Democrat Byrd of the KKK, who still today serves his racist Dem Party constituents? They still vote for him? hmmmm The segregationists and racists are in the Democrat Party; they always have been and will be. Why else would the "Bradley Effect" be a concern for the Democrat Party? Do they fear "yellow dog" Republicans won't vote for a candidate of the opposite party because he's black? Hellowww. Keep history in mind as you defend communist community agitators and their socialist "take over" of the USA. You see with your eyes it is the Dem Party, not Rep Party bringing socialism to the USA, just as they brought us the civil war, segregation. The Association of Black Republicans has a saying that the Dem Party is the party of four s's: slavery, secession, segregation, and socialism. I think they are right about history, and you are wrong.

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  • 212. At 5:48pm on 10 Oct 2008, newbriton wrote:

    #190
    Yes the market may prefer McCain. No controls, no oversight, continuation of golden parachutes, obscene annual remuneration, in fact a continuation of the economic policies that got us into this mess in the first place - rewards for the few at the expense of the rest of us. It's irritating to have to work within rules and regulations, isn't it? That's what Obama represents - a return to a playing field where shareholders can reasonably expect a return on their investment in the knowledge that those in positions of leadership are working for them, not merely feathering their own nests.

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  • 213. At 5:54pm on 10 Oct 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    Ref 170

    "This is Obama's latest skeleton and the scariest."

    Would you mind expanding on the reason why people should be concerned about the genetic affinities between Kenyan PM Raila Odinga and Sen. Barack Obama? Are you suggesting that Raila was behind the civil unrest that took place in Kenya as a result of electoral irregularities during their last election, or is it simply because that "skeleton" happens to be a black man from Africa?
    I realize Republicans are becoming increasingly nervous with the way things are going for them this election year, but shouldn't you all focus on the issues that are important to us and suggest proposals on how to solve them, rather than character assassination...or worse?

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  • 214. At 5:54pm on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:



    Economic news gets worse. Apparently the Origami Bank in Japan has folded.

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  • 215. At 5:56pm on 10 Oct 2008, goleooo wrote:

    jack

    let's not hope for the economy to get worse. It is not fair for the rest of us to suffer because of the ignorance of Daug and his pals.

    Let's not hope for hurricanes either, a great majority of American's love life and are not stuck up ignorant rednecks.

    you can take it on Doug until he realizes that what he wants you to do, he should do himself first, but I don't like hearing from you on hurricanes and economy that way.

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  • 216. At 5:56pm on 10 Oct 2008, ezekielthemack wrote:

    How many wins? Answer: with great difficulty Justin.

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  • 217. At 5:58pm on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #127, Mark, the current situation is quite a bit
    worse than 1987. We had some regional problems
    in real estate then; now it is nationwide and
    perhaps endemic to the English-speaking world.

    We had bank failures then, primarily in the
    oil patch, but nothing on the scale of today's
    situation.

    Greenspan has called this a "once in a hundred
    years event."

    As far as the stock market goes, I'm going to
    stay out, and if I want to be entertained, I'll
    go lose it in Vegas.

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  • 218. At 5:59pm on 10 Oct 2008, newbriton wrote:

    #194
    I echo your sentiments entirely. My father too was an RAF pilot during WWII, also a recipient of the DFC. Those warriors I have come into contact with don't grandstand their bravery or use their exploits to explain themselves. McCain deserves sympathy for his POW experience, but not accolades as a hero; and his experience certainly does not automatically qualify him for a position of leadership. In a harsher world his inability to keep five aircraft in the air would be a clear disqualification.

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  • 219. At 6:06pm on 10 Oct 2008, Broken_Paradigm wrote:

    @ Number 170:

    "Raila Odinga and Obama

    Raila is Obama's cousin and Obama endorsed him in the 2007 election . This is Obama's latest skeleton and the scariest. Youtube and other news sources have reported on this but it has been widely ignored until recently.
    In the United States, you would be unfit to become a police or federal officer if you had the associations that Obama does."

    ----

    I'm a long time reader, first time poster. The above comment disgusted me so much that I felt the need to register.

    It took me all of 10 seconds to research this and prove it to be sensationalist rubbish:

    Wikipedia:

    "In a January 2008 interview, Odinga suggested that he was the first cousin of American Senator and presidential candidate Barack Obama through Senator Obama's father.[26] However, Barack Obama's paternal uncle Said Obama has denied any direct relation to Odinga, stating "Odinga's mother came from this area, so it is normal for us to talk about cousins. But he is not a blood relative."[27] Obama's father belonged to the same Luo tribe as Odinga. [26]"

    Democracy thrives on information, not mis-information. Unfounded, groundless allegations like post 170 (and all other, similar ones coming from partisan voters) undermine the entire democratic process. Those propogating them are, so far as I am concerned, anti-democracy in the very worst way.

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  • 220. At 6:09pm on 10 Oct 2008, Xrubicon wrote:

    duhbuh # 126

    Were there any interviews of the same nature with white folks ?

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  • 221. At 6:16pm on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To Allmymarbles

    I read and enjoy your posts, as well. I will be 80 in a few months. Some days are very good and some days are not. I read somewhere that "it is not the age but the mileage" that must be considered.

    I agree that there are advantages to age but sometimes I get aggravated when my body will not cooperate with where my mind wants to go. I am a little banged up from a fall and have been feeling quite grumpy lately.

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  • 222. At 6:22pm on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #169, samuellink232, I have some thoughts about
    your question. The question in the debate was
    a little ridiculous, in that Israel is capable of defending
    itself. It has its own nuclear weapons.

    Secondly, there is a big difference between going
    around and invading countries which have done us
    no harm, such as Iraq, and retaliating against an
    attack, such as the one posed in the question.

    Every country has the right to defend itself, but
    that does not mean that we (or anybody else) should
    go around invading countries just because we
    don't approve of their regime or their policies.

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  • 223. At 6:26pm on 10 Oct 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    #204 Magickirin:

    "You don't get it. I'm just saying delay it till after the election."

    And you can't offer a good reason why other than it might be anti-republican, which, I hate to break it to you, is not a crime.

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  • 224. At 6:26pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #190

    Marcus,
    #190

    Aurallianus,

    I hate to break the news to you but since you have strayed into my home ground again I feel the obligation to point a few things out. Having lunch downtown now and ta

    1. The market is reacting to a number of factors, primarily resulting from the deficit and poor macroeconomic policy of the last 8 years

    2. McCains position is in the monds of most economists and business folks untenable. If he were ahead in the polls his suggested policies would be causing market issues. Thankfully he is not

    3. As chill rudely but correctly points out, economists are unanimous in every published study on the cause of the crisis and its solution. McCains proposed policies score slightly behind those of GWB. A pretty low bar to beat

    4. There is some division in the business community over who to vote for. Some believe McCain is lying and will change his policies once elected. Those would be traditional republicans. However, they are being turned off by the vitriol coming out of the campaign. The rest of us are voting for BO. Obama as well.

    Where do you think Obama's $$$$ are coming from? It isn't the unions, and sure isn;t the little guys despite all the talk about the small donor.

    Economist Sam

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  • 225. At 6:27pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    apologies. Should have said 'talking to some of those business people.'

    Sorry Sam

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  • 226. At 6:33pm on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #210, RWaeB, I'm an anti-Wright guy.

    Firstly, I think that we had to bomb the Japanese.
    They were busy exterminating people in China and
    elsewhere. They had used biological warfare in
    China, and were planning to use it against us
    in an attack on San Diego, but we were able
    to force them to surrender before they were able
    to carry it out.

    This only came out recently. If you are interested
    in more information, I can try and dig out the links.

    What Wright was saying was not that we were
    going to be attacked because of some strategic
    or tactical error, but that we deserved to be attacked.
    There is a difference there, and if the Constitution
    permitted an American citizen to be deported, then
    I would certainly support deporting him.

    Obama's past associations with Rev. Wright are a
    real drawback from my point of view. He had a
    close association with Wright for something like
    17 years, and only disavowed him when he was
    forced to for political reasons.

    If Wright is so innocent, then why didn't Obama
    defend him instead of "throwing him under the bus."

    This is why I find Obama just as bad as Palin;
    it's a race for the bottom for both of them, as
    far as I am concerned.

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  • 227. At 6:33pm on 10 Oct 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    #211 jcputn5349:

    "Why else would the "Bradley Effect" be a concern for the Democrat Party?"
    It isn't; check out fivethirtyeight.com to finf some cogent analysis of why it isn't.
    On a more personal note I enjoy reading alternae universe fiction but yours really sucks

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  • 228. At 6:34pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #170

    Victoria,

    I have four cousins. In descending order of honor they can each be described briefly as:

    - A special forces sniper (currently in Afghanistan)
    - A gay junkie 'resting' actor
    - A convicted felon
    - A professor at a major university (Just kidding Mark)

    While I love these folks as kin, their particular history does not particularly equip me to assassinate terrorists, make TV advertisements while high, steal stuff or educate our students.

    After careful consideration and consultation with my peers we have also determined that these members in my family do not in any way inhibit my ability to do my job. Furthermore after careful thought:

    GOBBBDMAFWGWKMTSPFO has determined that selecting the commander in chief based on family is a bad idea. We as a nation tried that recently and it didn't turn out too well.

    Should our preferred method of Presidential selection, the 'First Lady Smack Down' be rejected by the country, and the alternative 'Beat the 5th grader' intelligence test also fail we suggest a free and fair election.

    Candidate Sam

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  • 229. At 6:43pm on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #190, MAII, the market is tanking because the
    banking system is in meltdown. Whoever takes
    office is going to inherit an incredible mess.

    #212, newbriton, with all of the news coming out,
    it looks everybody is guilty, doesn't it? I don't think
    that either candidate can plausibly claim that
    they were trying to fix the problem ahead of time.

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  • 230. At 6:46pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    212 et al

    Please do not assume that obese felines exclusively favor McCain. We are a complex bunch. Before you accept Marcus assertion that the market falls are related to Obama being ahead you should consider the source, independently verify the underlying data, compare it to accepted theory, run a couple of computer models and then act based on your best prediction.

    After all, we didn't gain all this weight by chasing everything that moves.

    Fat but getting Thinner Cat Sam

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  • 231. At 6:53pm on 10 Oct 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    #197. pianne : "Please explain, what the rules are if something should happen to the nominated presidential candidate between now and Nov 4? Is it automatic that the VP candidate then becomes the presidential candidate?"

    No. The best explanation I have found is from Slate Magazine.

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  • 232. At 6:54pm on 10 Oct 2008, turningblueandgrey wrote:

    192

    OK by me if you want to write such long screeds but why post them, exactly the same post, redundantly under multiple topics here?

    132 - can I be a star-nosed mole with a platypus-like electric 6th sense?

    I was raised Republican, and argued lots of topics at nights and over meals at college as a young Republican should. After the 6 elections that I've been eligible to vote in, I still share my parent's greatest admiration for Eisenhower but see the rest of their party-line presidential voting as quite a mixed bag.

    I see an America that has been outsourced and fleeced by the same people who have enormously concentrated their wealth over the last 20 years, and pushed for ever more control of our health care and savings. I see the decline of the Republican progressive tradition left over from TR, who split from the main party over progressive issues, and the rise of a narrowing party dogma. I think Goldwater and Eisenhower both would be ashamed of most of the last 8 years.

    I also see the bulk of the finger-pointing and incoherent ranting coming from the right, and saying otherwise - to call it like it is - is part of the 'big lie' type of strident campaigning that Rove first brought to full play with the 2000 and 2004 elections.

    The contraction or withering in the range of ideas contained within the Republican party is evidenced in the rise of the RINO epithet (republican in name only) which seems far less used by the other, more dynamic and inclusive party.

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  • 233. At 7:01pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #214

    Oldy but goody! Goes along with the old City of London joke

    What is the collective noun for a group of bankers?

    A Wunch.

    Snigger Sam

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  • 234. At 7:20pm on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    180, Doug.

    So you name your dogs after presidents. I see you do not have a dog named after a woman. How about a pit bull for Palin?

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  • 235. At 7:21pm on 10 Oct 2008, malcolmd3111 wrote:

    I am on a ship sailing half way across the world, this is my first post. I’ve enjoyed reading the blogs thus far; The broad depth of responses are indicative of the human persona, ranging from highly intelligent and introspective to completely reactive and illogical.

    Current financial situation federal government expenditures:

    50% Military 28% Servicing the debt. leaving 22% for everything else.
    This does not include the expenditure in Iraq. If the books were audited we would find that the US is bankrupt.

    If your value system and moral judgment believes this is acceptable then vote republican, otherwise vote for a man who I believe will be a good president, who understands what must be done. We need a sequence of decision making in Washington DC which are based upon the following principles;

    Sustainability, Accountability, Transparency, and for national good. (for all)

    In the 1980’s we had trickle down economics, what trickled up was greed, fear, corruption, and a complete lack of accountability.

    Jesus taught about love and compassion to all. If you embrace his teachings then you would do likewise. These responses fill me with hope. You care about your grandchildren, you know what to do.

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  • 236. At 7:24pm on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    184, Doug.

    And when FOX airs this show about Obama, will it include the racism espoused by McCain and Palin. Wil you yell, "Kill him. Kill him."?

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  • 237. At 7:32pm on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    221, Aqua.

    I guess what I was saying was that it was the mind that was important. As for the rest, ah, well....

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  • 238. At 7:35pm on 10 Oct 2008, Alaska-me-Hardplace wrote:

    #138 MagicKrin

    What's the problem? Are you going to miss 'smarter than a 5 grader'. By the way, that's not an educational program.

    And god help us if we can't watch a bunch of multi-millionaires wack a ball around a field.

    Get a life!

    Jeff

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  • 239. At 7:44pm on 10 Oct 2008, MussieCraig wrote:

    The Palin/McCain campaign is turning into one of the most desperate, low down campaigns in history. I just hope it doesn't win. Some of the shouts coming out from the crowd at the increasingly extreme campaign events are an absolue disgrace. Who are these people to shout "go home"? Is this the country of Lincoln, of Adams, of Franklin? Get a grip, have some pride in yourself and in your nation. If they carry on like that there is surely only one result on the cards. Surely?

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  • 240. At 7:45pm on 10 Oct 2008, moderate_observer wrote:

    #204 magickirn

    you are saying that the justice system should delay verdicts in a case because it has the potential to hurt a politicians campaign?


    The justice system's processes are not to be interfered with by politicians, that strikes at the heart of democracy.

    The process of the law as guided by the constitution is much bigger than any one man,president or his campaign and it is what protects your freedom from any leader who wants to flex his/her muscle.

    justice systems should not take in considerations the wellbeing of politicians careers if there is a legal matter at hand.

    Ill also add that republicans who support the mccain cmapaign are also among those lawmakers who are proceeding with this case and choosing not to put politics ahead of justice because it is absolutely wrong to do that and it goes against everything that the country stands for.

    and it is illegal for politicians to intervene without going through the legal means(lawyers, appeals etc.)

    that is why karl rove, and former attorney general alberto gonzalez are looking at possible indictments at the moment.(political interferance). and possible jail time. they will get pardoned by president W though, u betcha!





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  • 241. At 7:47pm on 10 Oct 2008, U4466131 wrote:

    #210 RedWhiteandermblue

    The phrase is, I think, 'don't shoot the messenger listen to the message'. The dreadful carnage of the 11th September 2001 was a self inflicted injury. Sorry, I'm not advocating terrorism just realism. For the past 60 years the USA has been treating the Arab world despicably and the chickens finally came home to roost. Don't blame the Reverend Wright for telling the truth, look at the message and learn before you have another 9/11 or worse. You did create Osama now learn and put it right

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  • 242. At 7:56pm on 10 Oct 2008, deschloro wrote:

    #209
    thank you so much goleooo!

    There are a lot of angry republicans on this blog.

    I wonder why they are all getting so worked up....


    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/battleground.html

    oh yeah that's why....

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  • 243. At 7:59pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #223

    Did you read my original post which was the double standard.

    Obama buddy Rezko's sentancing is being delayed untill after the election
    anything negative for McCain is being speeded up

    That is the Double Standard!

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  • 244. At 8:10pm on 10 Oct 2008, meminmk wrote:

    How does McCain win?
    Easy question to ask, a tad difficult to resolve!

    I too watched the interviews with the "average Americans" at Palin's appearance in Ohio last night on our UK news.

    Very worrying. Audience was white. Just white. Just like the Republican convention.

    A few vox pops later I was even more worried. I must paraphrase here as I don't have a photographic memory (not sure that would have helped!), but some of the answers to the "Why not Obama?" were:

    1 "We don't vote for killers". Further questioning revealed this to be an abortion issue. Where does old man McCain stand on abortion by the way?

    2 "They're out to get us". Again further questioning, much prompting etc revealed the almost normal looking gentleman (except for the baseball hat - what is it with baseball hats and IQ's?) fears another 9/11. Handy then that his man is not pursuing that line at the moment.

    3 Something straight out of La La Palin land, such tripe I've forgotten what it is now!

    So, to win McCain needs:
    1 His friends to attack Iran or North Korea or both

    2 To comestraight out and tell you you must not vote for a black man.

    3 Errr think that's it.

    As we say over here, methinks McCain's had his chips.

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  • 245. At 8:11pm on 10 Oct 2008, moderate_observer wrote:

    #232 after observing for a while ive lost all faith in the concept of political parties, especially in this case , It is obvious that the GOP and Dems have a duopoly on ideas independents hardly make any progress, and when they try to get in the process every strong arm tactic is used to keep them out.

    we need a none of the above vote :) on the ballots sometime.

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  • 246. At 8:11pm on 10 Oct 2008, RedWhiteandermblue wrote:

    guns, I appreciate your response.

    I suppose my opinion is that to say we "deserved" to be attacked is not how I'd put it. The idea that God was punishing us I would not agree with for a number of reasons. On the other hand, even though both ideas might push my buttons to some extent, I would just shrug if I heard them. An awful lot of people (though not many Americans) do hold these views.

    The "Chickens coming home to roost:" metaphor I find painful, but apt, not due to US sins or lack of them, but due to US stupidity in doing so much to get bin Laden up and running.

    What made Wright's statements so inflammatory, I think, was that he blasphemed against the US civic religion. Saying the US was wrong and had done evil things really riled people. But surely the US is not infallible, and can be wrong, I would say. I love my country as well, but maybe I'm not in favor of making a religion of it.

    I tended to believe in the past that Hiroshima was justified as it avoided the bloodier need to invade Japan. I've come around on that, because I think Japan was willing to surrender for some time provided they could keep their emperor--which we ended up letting them do anyway. If you have new information on this issue, please tell me and or point me towards it.

    On the largest issue, I believe we should examine our past as a nation, admit our mistakes where we made them, and try to learn from them. On the other hand, this kind of thinking can lead to a sort of liberal guilt paralysis epitomized by Carter, and which I reject as well.

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  • 247. At 8:15pm on 10 Oct 2008, Joao Coelho wrote:

    Two huge assumptions. And the idea that the economy will recover enough to give people hope instead of fear is just not credible. Not in the short amount of time we have, three weeks? Plus McCain's own choices of VP and campaign strategies is pushing independents away not towards him. So all he has is his base and they will vote solidly for him.

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  • 248. At 8:22pm on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:



    # 230 - Sam

    Thanks for the view of a plump feline - BUT it is a fact that the US desperately needs investment from the sovereign funds of the still-wealthy countries. Would you say that these countries would be more or less likely to invest in the US economy if there is to be an Obama win ?

    Or is it too inflammatory to discuss this option ?

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  • 249. At 8:30pm on 10 Oct 2008, Joao Coelho wrote:

    The other day i was walking by an insane asylum when i heard a bunch of people shouting: 30, 30, 30. Since the walls were to high, i decide to take a peak in one of the holes in the wall. Well, some jerk went and poked me in the eye. Suddenly the crowd starts shouting: 31,31,31.

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  • 250. At 8:51pm on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #234, Ms. Marbles, all of the pitbulls I have known
    have been extremely tolerant individuals. However,
    I have heard of some pitbulls which wantonly
    attack other members of their species.

    Could this be because of the color of their lipstick?

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  • 251. At 8:56pm on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    243, ubermensch.

    What I want to know is if they are going to charge Palin with inciting to violence.

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  • 252. At 9:00pm on 10 Oct 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    #243 Magickirin:

    "Did you read my original post which was the double standard.

    Obama buddy Rezko's sentancing is being delayed untill after the election
    anything negative for McCain is being speeded up

    That is the Double Standard!"

    No, the double standard is your regarding Obama as fair game for any sort of personal attack while wanting anything that hurts McCain suppessed.

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  • 253. At 9:10pm on 10 Oct 2008, eightypercent wrote:


    # Thanks to David Cunard for the piece on presidential succession from Slate magazine. People have been asking me about this today and I couldn't give them the answer.

    Why have people been asking - and why has the matter come up today on the blog ? Because the fear of what may happen has been ratcheted up by the McCain/Palin campaign and people are genuinely beginning to wonder whether we are going to get through the next three weeks without bloodshed.

    Senator McCain, the man who was going to run an "honorable" campaign will have a great deal to answer for if anything happens.

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  • 254. At 9:11pm on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #246, RWB, I tend to agree with you about the
    stupidity aspect of our foreign policy.

    About the Japanese, there is a lot of evidence
    both ways about the Emperor issue. MacArthur
    was the only proponent at a high level that
    the Japanese needed to be able to retain
    their royal family. But, on the other hand,
    the Japanese military attempted a coup
    after the Emperor agreed to surrender. Their
    case was based on their observations that
    no below-ground installations at Nagasaki
    and Hiroshima were destroyed, and that
    they did not believe that we had any more
    bombs. (How did they know that?)

    It was only the intervention of the Emperor's
    family which permitted the surrender process
    to go forward. I guess this all proves that
    MacArthur was right.

    A lot of my reaction to Wright is perceptual.
    Viewing his sermons, I don't think that he was
    merely saying that the 9/11 attacks were a
    consequence of our policies in the middle east.

    I believe that he was delighted about it, and
    his "God Damn America" comments highlighted
    his emotions.

    Nonetheless, I do not believe that Obama is
    of that ilk. But, his association with Wright shows
    the compromises that he had to make to get
    elected in Chicago, and associations he made
    in that community continue to haunt him.



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  • 255. At 9:18pm on 10 Oct 2008, hms_shannon wrote:


    Just because stocks are still falling,

    Billions used to stop the slide,

    woolworths on the way out,

    It does not mean China will not invade taiwan.'

    Sorry folks its A Celt thing....

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  • 256. At 9:26pm on 10 Oct 2008, moderate_observer wrote:

    #243 magickirn , im sure if you look at the details of the case it would state why the sentencing was put off. Im sure if you checked an unbiased source you would find good reason.

    i havnt followed the case, but if rezco is already convicted and is awaiting sentencing then that means he is confirmed to be guilty and whatever negative impact that it could have on obama , would have already taken its toll.

    if they were trying to favour obama then they would have put the entire case off until after the election not the sentencing.

    the reason why this story didnt stick to obama, is because there is no smoking gun stating that obama knew rezco was doing illegal deals. its very easy to have a job and not know that your boss is a theif. McCain has more dirt on him from the keating 5 and it didnt ruin his career.

    this case with palin has more implications because it directly involves her. but if they find that she had no clue that this was going on im pretty sure the media will just forget about it tommorow and her career would continue as is.

    there is no bias or double standard in favour of obama in this case, you are talking about 2 very different cases in 2 completely different states.




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  • 257. At 9:33pm on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    I was delighted to read jcputn5349 on the virtue, nay necessity, of armed rebellion against the state and its elected government in order, as I understand it, to remove a despised and dangerous regime.

    One questionably 'elected' by a fraud perpetrated on a misled, propagandised and ideologically ill-educated populace.

    This is an approach as a committed socialist and Marxist sympathiser, and one who lives in the socialist-democratic monarchy of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland I heartily approve of.

    I am so pleased to find someone who shares my views on the way to remove the criminal Bush/Neocon regime, though it does seem a little late to propose it now.

    Still, better late than never, as I'm sure my friends Friedrich, Leon, Gramsci and Cohn-Bendit would agree. Perhaps so would this chap Ayers people keep going on about, though I don't think I've come across him in any of our revolutionary cell meetings in the workers' paradises of Clerkenwell and Bethnal Green.

    I would like to express my admiration to this poster for his/her bravery in his/her advocacy of the legitimacy of anti-government terrorism.

    It can't have been easy to be so open about it in the current state of affairs, given the unthinking knee-jerk reaction of most Americans to the idea of insurrection against (or even elected opposition to!) oppressive occupations and objectionable regimes these days.

    Let alone with all this anti-terrorist legislation, the Patriot Act and the possibility of being 'extraordinarily renditioned' to Guantanamo Bay or a torture site in Jordan, Morocco or Uzbekistan.

    jcputn5349. I applaud you! You are the embodiment of the spirit of the original American Revolutionaries of the War of Independence brought into the 21st century!

    Oh. Just a sec. I read that post again so I could savour such an unusual and rare manifesto, and I think I may possibly have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here. I wonder if I have been a little hasty?

    Never mind. Perhaps jcputn5349 and his cowardly cronyist lickspittle revisionist-individualist fellow-travellers can console themselves with this quote while I look for the avant-garde of the revolution elsewhere:

    'Lyda Green, Republican president of the state senate, speaks for many in the party in Alaska when she says Palin has been "disappointingly liberal" since she was elected governor.'

    (From the so-called 'liberal' anti-revolutionary and anti-proletarian capitalist boot-licking Guardian newspaper.)





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  • 258. At 9:39pm on 10 Oct 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    234. At 7:20pm on 10 Oct 2008, allmymarbles

    Had to laugh, all are male dogs, but since I have them neutered, why not call one Palin, it's already stange calling McCain, GW. here Baloo. Animal haters and abusers drop puppies and Kittens along side the road all the time, since I live off the beaten path, alot of the time I find them till to late.

    Goleoo, Southern Baptist.

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  • 259. At 9:54pm on 10 Oct 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    british-ish, since we are on the verge of civil
    war, and that we may be on the road to solving
    our political disputes with a combination of
    firearms, alcohol, and religion, may I suggest
    that we shore up our financial system in the
    meantime?

    For example, instead of using Gold and Silver
    to back our currency, we could move to commodities
    which can more easily be produced. I suggest
    that we start with gin. The whisky states would
    probably agitate to be part of the deal. A little
    wine from California, some absinthe for our
    European friends, and some beer notes
    for the common man.

    All of this would make the relief lines more
    bearable, and our political debates more coherent.



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  • 260. At 9:56pm on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    Obama's Secret Service detail must be totally on Red Alert. How can McCain, the so called 'man of honor,' allow this hate mongering to continue?

    Except for pushing the buttons of every nut case in the country, what I have been reading, even on some conservative sites, is a very negative response to this kind of rabble rousing.

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  • 261. At 9:58pm on 10 Oct 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #259

    Obama worshipper no I just don't see Obama walking on water.

    I see him as an unqualfied political hack who has been given a free ride.

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  • 262. At 10:03pm on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#258Dougtexan

    We have the same problem!

    Often the animals are so injured that euthanasia is all that is left to help them from their pain. If I could ever catch one of the people responsible it would not be pretty!

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  • 263. At 10:06pm on 10 Oct 2008, U4466131 wrote:

    #257 british-ish

    Yes but would MA11 or Magick understand. That's a very big question

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  • 264. At 10:07pm on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#259Gunsandreligion

    I have some good recipes! Also, do not forget the home made soap. We do not want a lot of unwashed drinkers. Could get rather odorous. (Is that a correct word?)

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  • 265. At 10:15pm on 10 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #245

    There is a none of the above vote. Libertarian.

    #248

    To be honest, I don't think they care about political colors. They will look at the margins they can make vs what they need to US economy to be doing and invest appropriately. With Europe in the tank as well and so much money to move into a diversified portfolio I don't think w ehave too much to worry about with them (yet). They kept investing as the $ devalued, they will probably continue to do so. They may buy a few companies and banks at rock bottom prices though.

    Economist Sam

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  • 266. At 10:18pm on 10 Oct 2008, RedWhiteandermblue wrote:

    guns, I'm not sure I disagree with anything you said, particularly about Hiroshima.

    McArthur had a mixed record as a general, but was a first rate governor, and understood having an intact emperor was the key to successfully governing. Without him, the Japanese would have had nothing to lose.

    The God damn America is a step or two worse than anything else, come to think of it. It's one thing to say we deserved it, another to invite God to condemn us.

    I suppose I think Wright is a very common type of '60s windbag. I'm surprised anyone bothers listening to him. People used to say things like that all the time.

    I'll have to look at the Alaska Independence Party, but from a position of ignorance it galls me that no one sees Palin's membership as anything like as much a cause for concern as the politics of Obama's minister.

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  • 267. At 10:22pm on 10 Oct 2008, U4466131 wrote:

    #264 aquarizonagal

    Try malodorous, much better. I got the idea anyway but think that even if showered and doused in perfume they would still stink

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  • 268. At 10:37pm on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    259 (gunsandreligion)

    I'm emailing that to Alastair Darling to put before the G7 this weekend.

    I think you've got the solution everyone's been looking for there.

    The Irish, for example, can promise 100 per cent backing for 20-proof poteen and I daresay the Scots (though they are being a bit obstreperous at the moment) giving us a bit of a hand with their 20-year reserve deposits of whisky. (I thought you spelt yours with an 'e', by the way?) The Japanese have saki, the Russians vodka . . .

    (I don't know what the Icelanders will be able to do with whatever they freeze, but there are only a few hundred thousand of them, so I'm sure they could all emigrate to Denmark and take advantage of the schnapps.)

    The French, Italians and Spanish, of course, with all that wine, will become the world's new economic leaders and the new 'G3' which I think is probably a good outcome that will benefit us all.

    We will have to give up cars and petrol or diesel-fuelled transport, however, since I can't quite see the Saudis, for example, joining in the new AERM (Alcohol Exchange Rate Mechanism).

    I understand alcohol is restricted somewhat in Alaska too, so those reserves are out, but since neither Ford nor GM will be producing cars to use it any more soon, that probably won't matter.

    The only really major problem I can see with the New Alcoholhic Order is that it tends not to mix too well with guns or religion.

    That won't affect us in Britain particularly, since we don't have anything like as much of either as you seem to over there, but I think you might have to bring in Prohibition just to be on the safe side.

    Yes, I think that's sorted.

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  • 269. At 10:40pm on 10 Oct 2008, U4466131 wrote:

    Justin what's happening to the moderation on this blog? 40 minutes to clear a post?

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  • 270. At 10:40pm on 10 Oct 2008, ilmatic wrote:

    i find it rather strange that most of your reporting seem to be in criticism of Obama ,mostly your reports on the 10pm bbc 1 news....
    i hope im mistaken,...but will be watching your reports closely

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  • 271. At 10:42pm on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    263 (T1m0thy):
    "#257 british-ish
    Yes but would MA11 or Magick understand. That's a very big question."


    Oh, yes, I think so. Why not? I'm confident in my estimate of their intellectual ability.

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  • 272. At 10:49pm on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    264. aquarizonagal wrote:
    To#259Gunsandreligion
    Also, do not forget the home made soap.


    After some of what I've read here tonight and after Justin's latest post, I worry about just what some mass-produced soap might be made from in the not too distant future. You'd better send me your recipe.

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  • 273. At 10:56pm on 10 Oct 2008, soliplaya wrote:

    Just a little story.

    It must have been 15 years ago, I happened to be in the center of Brussels, with my American boss, walking out of a restaurant.
    And we walked right into Bill Clinton.
    Ok, not right into him, as there were lots of other people there. His security detail was going bonkers, because he was just walking in the street, shaking hands with the people. And the people were excited, smiling and cheering.
    I did shake his hand though, and joked after that with my boss about never washing it again. He was as excited as I was, because although he was some 55 years old, he had never come that close to a US President before, and it had to happen in Brussels, Belgium of all places.

    Now, zap forward 15 years.

    President Bush comes to Brussels.
    He drives around in a Humvee, and they have to empty the streets before he drives around, and seal the .. (don't know how you call this, the covers of the sewers), for fear that someone would plant a bomb there.

    That is what Mr Bush and his administration have done to the USA, in just a few years.
    Not just in Belgium, all over the world.

    The USA used to be a nice country, with a lot of goodwill abroad. That's been lost, and will take time to rebuild.
    Europeans and others do not dislike America or Americans. They dislike what these people have made it look like.

    People who vote there, don't let it happen again, please.

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  • 274. At 11:00pm on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    "even if showered and doused in perfume they would still stink" (TimOthy)

    There's a shop round the corner from my flat here in London that sells nothing but toys, grooming and 'beautifying' aids for dogs. I could ask if they do a scented lipstick for pitbulls and perhaps pigs, but they're closed now.

    Still, Governor Palin will be awake, won't she? Perhaps I can email her instead?

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  • 275. At 11:06pm on 10 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Correction:

    In post 274, I wrote 'Governor Palin will be awake'.

    In the interests of journalistic accuracy and truth, that should of course have read "semi-conscious".

    My apologies for any distress I may have caused.

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  • 276. At 11:23pm on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#267Timothy

    Thanks for the correct word and that is so true!

    To#268 and 272Britishish

    I forgot to mention that I also have a recipe for ratafia. Depending upon how many peach pits you use, it can be quite lethal.

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  • 277. At 11:25pm on 10 Oct 2008, oldnat wrote:

    #268 british-ish

    "the Scots (though they are being a bit obstreperous at the moment) giving us a bit of a hand with their 20-year reserve deposits of whisky."

    Sorry, mate, we're too busy selling the Scotch to China and India (they're the only ones with money).

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  • 278. At 11:59pm on 10 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    I will keep posting here because Justin Webb's latest blog has made me quite angry which is just terrible for my blood pressure.

    I have been thinking. What if everything was reversed? What if Obama was the 72 year old man, who graduated in the bottom of his class, divorced his first wife because she was disabled, married a young heiress whose father served a prison term and had some very questionable ties to criminals who were implicated for the bombing death of a journalist. What if Obama was part of the 'Keating Five?' What if Obama was the one who practically sat in Bush's lap for the last eight years so he could be nominated by his party?

    Would Obama even be holding a Senate seat, much less running for president?

    These are facts dear PTBs. You can censor me if you choose.

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  • 279. At 00:02am on 11 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    I can add a little to soliplaya's story by way of illustration.

    When Bush came to London on a state visit, he was helicoptered to the back of Buck House at night. The following morning he was driven a hundred metres or so from the back to the front in his bullet-proof car to be 'officially welcomed' by the Queen.

    It was reliably reported in the Press that in the weeks before his arrival that the Secret Service had demanded that London should be sealed off to all traffic roughly from the City of London boundary to the endge of Kensington Palace Gardens when he arrived, and whenever he was to go out. (Look at a map, if you don't know London.)

    This was refused. They then demanded that for the 'official welcome' the public should be kept aweay from the Palace railings and allowed no nearer than the end of the Mall. (From which, by the way, you would barely see anybody. See map ditto.)

    The Queen apparently told them at that stage, that the public would be allowed right up to the railings as they always are every day. That was reluctantly accepted; it was, apparently non-negotiable.

    However, when he went to deliver a speech at the Banqueting Hall (I think it was), anyway, only a couple of hundred metres from the Palace, the road was barricaded off and closed to traffic and pedestrians. His convoy looked rather lonely, speeding along a totally deserted road.

    President Putin travelled the same route along the Mall not long after. With the Queen in an open carriage with an escort of the Household Cavalry, the usual few (though, admittedly armed) policemen about, and Londoners going about their normal business.

    I went to many of the BBC Proms Concerts this year, as usual, at the Albert Hall. (I realise here I am going to lay myself right open to all those who will accuse us Brits of being 'casual' about the 'threat of terrorism'.) The only time we had to go through a security check was, interestingly, on the nights American orchestras were playing.

    Readers may draw whatever conclusions they wish.

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  • 280. At 00:02am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To all:

    My#278 may be censored but I had to pose the questions and I am refusing to post any more on Justin Webb's latest blog.

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  • 281. At 00:08am on 11 Oct 2008, oldnat wrote:

    Pollster.com has moved their trend estimate for Georgia from "strong" to "lean" for McCain, and Obama ahead of McCain in NC.

    Unless the polls are badly wrong, the Palin pick may have backfired by energising the Democrats/Independents more than the Republican base.

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  • 282. At 00:15am on 11 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    277.
    oldnat wrote:
    Sorry, mate, we're too busy selling the Scotch to China and India.

    We'd only need a few thousand litres while we got the Mead Marketing Campaign going.

    Come on, this is a world crisis. Dubbya said we've all got to pull the beer handles together.

    (No, scrub that last bit. I'll try to find someone a bit more credible to appeal to that generous Scots nature.)

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  • 283. At 00:16am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#277Oldnat

    Sorry, but I am not really sure their money is any good. You may have to swap that Scotch for soap or maybe ratafia. Is there anyone you would like washed or maybe eliminated?

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  • 284. At 00:23am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    Moderation is going to be slow because I think that there are some ANGRY people posting on the new blog. We will just have to be patient and maybe start distilling and brewing, also making a lot of soap!

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  • 285. At 00:58am on 11 Oct 2008, meminmk wrote:

    And as it takes an hour for a post to appear everyone gives up and wanders idly off to kick a few cans in the gutters .....

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  • 286. At 01:14am on 11 Oct 2008, oldnat wrote:

    #283 acqua

    You'd better hope their money is good, since they own most of the US debt, and it's supporting the dollar.

    #282 british-ish

    If Obama asks nicely, I'm sure we'd help out. If it's McPalin we'll offer them some bathtub gin.

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  • 287. At 01:19am on 11 Oct 2008, oldnat wrote:

    BBC reporting that Palin abused power!

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  • 288. At 01:46am on 11 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #278

    To be fair Aqua, McCain is needed for diversity purposes. He's the only Gnome in congress. I just wish he would compromise less and wear the spiky red hat to his campaign rallys. I'd also respect him more if he carried his own fishing rod.

    Gardener Sam

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  • 289. At 01:49am on 11 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #282, 284

    Guys,

    I have full scale mead production underway (it's that time of year). Would you like Mead ale or the full strength 'Let's build a boat and visit the neighbours' Viking style stuff

    Olaf the Hairy AKA Sam

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  • 290. At 01:50am on 11 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    283. aquarizonagal finally drove me to Wikipedia.

    All I could think of was woven baskets and placemats and things, and I couldn't get the connection at all.

    Now, however, all is clear. Potentially, I see this has a place in the New Alcoholhic Economic Era, though that's not quite the direction I'd envisaged it taking.

    What I had in mind was more of a nice warm friendly sort of glow developing in international monetary relations.

    I think, however, we'd better exclude Russia from it for the time being. Seeing as raffia, sorry, ratafia, seems to be much easier to make than polonium.

    Which of course also creates something of a warm internal glow, but not as friendly.

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  • 291. At 01:54am on 11 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    285. meminmk wrote:
    And as it takes an hour for a post to appear everyone gives up and wanders idly off to kick a few cans in the gutters .....

    Just as long as it's only cans some of them are kicking in the gutters, he says anxiously.

    (Why do pigs and drunks come to mind suddenly?)

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  • 292. At 02:02am on 11 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    287: So they are:

    "I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act," investigator Steve Branchflower concluded in the 263-page report.

    Now who is going to dare post that under Justin's latest piece? I think I'll stay here, it looks a lot more amenable.

    It'd be interesting to know if breaking "Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a)" is very serious, serious, or fairly unimportant before some people tell us it can be broken by sneezing without holding a handkerchief to your nose or something.

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  • 293. At 02:09am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To all

    Alcohol and soap!

    My dad said that if you know how to make these two items you can always survive. It appears that many great minds are working on the new exchange rates and investment opportunities. Can I get in on this before the IPO? Would this be considered 'insider trading?'

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  • 294. At 02:10am on 11 Oct 2008, LooseLoseBreakBrakeThereIsADifference wrote:

    Obama has to win. I don't think there is any other way to restore respect for America or its people.

    He may not deliver on all his promises but what politician ever has? Hope is the word that people are using to speak of the Obama campaign and it is exactly that. Hope. Hope that America can pull itself out of the gutter, morally and economically. Hope offers a chance (just a chance) of a new direction, a new something. And this is an opportunity Americans can't pass up. If not for yourselves but for the rest of the world. If America votes McPalin it will be definitive evidence that Americans are perfectly fine with the demise of a once great nation.

    Many posters on this page have brought up the Rev's comments. I like to think of it another way. America for as long as I can remember has been the global bully of sorts; the world police. Beyond reproach for any of their actions no matter how disturbing. In a simple playground scenario, America is the playground bully, going around taking peoples belongs, handing down beatings, doesn't answer to anyone but himself etc. Thus, 9/11 represents the little child who when faced with bullying and intimidation turns around and lamps the bully much to everyones amazement. I know many will not like this view, but 9/11 was Americas slap in the face. Americas reality check. Americas realisation that it was no longer untouchable. And lets face it America hasn't had too many reality checks in its history. I think a country should consider itself lucky that the only foreign attacks on home soil in hundreds of years has been pearl harbour and 9/11. Other than that the U.S. has done an exemplary job of making sure the bombings and the carnage happen elsewhere. 2 incidents, 60 sixty years apart. Thats some good innings!

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  • 295. At 02:13am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#286Oldnat

    Oh dear! I thought we had some gold buried somewhere? Maybe Cindy is wearing it?

    To your #287

    Is anyone besides McCain surprised?

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  • 296. At 02:45am on 11 Oct 2008, meminmk wrote:

    So she abused her power but didn't break the law!

    Think that means we've got to suffer another 25 days of her rabble rousing screeching.

    On another subject, I thought McCain looked really down today. As in seriously down.

    Wonder if he might just pack it all in? By all accounts he was a reasonable , fairly decent guy once.

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  • 297. At 03:02am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To Britishish

    Sorry about the ratafia but my mama had a great recipe. Part of my childhood involved eating those lovely peaches and then cracking the pits for that nutty kernel to be added to her brew. I understand that women have historically been the best poisoners.

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  • 298. At 03:11am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#292Britishish

    On a more somber note:

    I am not surprised about this revelation regarding Palin. There will probably be no consequences legally for her. She is a politician, after all. It is sad but in this country politicians and their families (as well as rock stars, athletes etc.) are not held to the same accountability to which the average person can be.

    What will happen politically is anyone's guess.
    I am thinking that some of the vicious attacks against Obama this past week were staged to dilute the probable damage this report might do to Palin.

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  • 299. At 03:17am on 11 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #292

    Ish,

    Well, she broke a law. As a banker, doctor, accountant or even (gasp) lawyer a breach of ethics requires a resignation or a firing.

    This could be interesting. It is likely to be pushed back on by the Reps as partisan. But with a unanimous vote it provides a lot of ammo for the Dems.

    At risk of being folksy, darn it I just realized it is late Friday and I didn't shoot anything today. This week sucked.

    Friday is for firearms.

    Sad Sam

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  • 300. At 03:19am on 11 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    Hey Aqua,

    How you doing today? You seem more yourself, and that makes me smile.

    Got some mead for ya!

    Happy Sam

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  • 301. At 04:00am on 11 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    289, Sam.

    What is mead ale? I have always thought of mead as wine.

    By the way, is it too late to join the bootleggers? My contribution would be wine and cordials.

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  • 302. At 04:18am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#300Samtyler1969

    All this talk about alcohol has gone to my head. I have just realized I should drink more.

    I do have to disagree about mead. I have never liked it and with the loss of so many bees recently we can not afford to waste honey. This is THEIR food, not ours and drunken bees are not something you would want to be near. They tend to be mean AND armed drunks.

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  • 303. At 04:50am on 11 Oct 2008, blogmlog wrote:

    Did the surge work in Iraq ? I don't think so. It was a cover up for American military dealings with the insurgents who had American blood on their hands. Americans are still paying 100,000 or more insurgents to not use their guns against Americans.

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  • 304. At 05:01am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#301 Allmymarbles

    What kind of cordials? Would there be cherries involved? I once had a neighbor who made the very best cherry cordial but she would not share the recipe.

    Why are we so worried about the economy? We are a nation of distillers, brewers, and wine makers. It is so easy. Get everyone drunk and no one will care.

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  • 305. At 05:23am on 11 Oct 2008, turningblueandgrey wrote:

    245
    I understand why 2 party choices might frustrate at times, but calling that a "duopoly" and wishing for 'none of the above' on the ballot does yourself and all other voters you care about a disservice. Much better to persevere, decide and vote.

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  • 306. At 05:29am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#303Blogmlog

    I would not dispute with you.

    Please do not be hurt or offended but I think you have wandered into the bar when all the patrons have either staggered home or passed out on the bar stools.

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  • 307. At 06:11am on 11 Oct 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#305Bluejay60

    You are so correct. I have never understood why anyone would want to discount their vote.

    I think we may be the only ones left here so I wish you goodnight.

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  • 308. At 06:17am on 11 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    302, 304, Aqua.

    I must disagree with you about mead. My greatest success in wine-making was an apricot mead. And, yes, it was great.

    As to cordials, place your order. I am versatile. Cherry is fine, but I get to choose the cherry - a wild cherry called albaloo.

    Cheers

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  • 309. At 06:32am on 11 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    299/298 aquarizonagal wrote: To#292Britishish?What will happen politically is anyone's guess.

    Before I went to sleep I realised it probably wasn't.

    Within minutes it was being claimed this was all a set-up by Obama sympathisers. (Er, Republican Obama sympathisers?)

    That goes well beyond mere 'spinning'. They really are getting well into Goebbels territory now.

    Francis Bacon wrote, more than 300 years ago, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men shall do nothing."

    What people forget is that he helped to persecute some people himself through the clever use of lies and half-lies (asserting them so boldly they sounded more truthful than the truth.)

    And he lost his job finally because of the misuse of his office, disregard of ethics and corruption. He knew what he was talking about.

    I am so glad to see the Republican party marching vigorously back to the thirties. In more ways than one, by the look of it.

    What some people have learnt from Bacon in the intervening three centuries, is not to rely on "good men doing nothing" but to make it impossible for them to be heard, believed, or accepted when they do do something.

    We went through a certain amount of this sort of thing when Thatcher was elected, but not this bad; and at least, though I loathed both her and them, she did at least have some economic policies.

    I, like many of my friends, just don't understand how it got like this.

    I heard, also, that McCain was last night asking for "people to show respect". I suppose he has finally grasped the potential consequences of what he and his political 'advisers' have unleashed.

    It's a bit late.

    (Dammit, I'd forgotten about the bee problem for the moment. The British -- or English, anyway -- contribution to The New Alcoholhic Economic Order is just going to have to be ale, then.)

    Francis Bacon missed something, by the way, which probably contributed to his comeuppance. He had no sense of humour.




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  • 310. At 06:42am on 11 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    309, ish-ish.

    Well, you know how I feel about that. The greatest gift is humour.

    Goodnight.

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  • 311. At 08:00am on 11 Oct 2008, british-ish wrote:

    allmymarbles (and others of a similar mind):

    if you come back here (where I am seeking temporary refuge among friends, since our favourite straightmen have returned elsewhere, with reinforcements) you might like this:

    Guy Browning's 'rescue plan'for the banks' unwanted human capital.




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  • 312. At 08:34am on 11 Oct 2008, crazynvwa wrote:

    No 169, Samuellink232

    I like the criticism , please if you wish, have a look at my earlier blog No. 84 . One could only learn and grow and improve by hearing some criticisms.

    I am not against the USA, and history told us that America had done too many good things to the whole wide world...

    So said my American colleague :

    The USA gives more aid to the rest of the world than all the other countries combined ...... The American people are now losing great amounts of wealth which will have a profound effect on the rest of the world. One should think of history at a time like this .... When the US suffers the world suffers more .... This country is still the country that drives the world economy, feeds the worlds people and protects one against aggression. Please hold your opinions until we all get out of this mess and god hope we do ...

    Absolutely right, but one has to move on, and not lying on his victory and glorious history everyday, and as we move on, we make mistakes, and by self-examination, we could find out what we have done good and what we have done wrong, then one could move further and improve....

    Again as the Chinese saying goes" A good medicine is bitter at tongue, but good for treating your disease."

    We want America to be good, so will be the whole world, we want America to be better, so will be the rest of the world.

    God bless America!

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  • 313. At 08:52am on 11 Oct 2008, crazynvwa wrote:

    No 169, Samuellink232

    Just another thought on war, I am totally against war, and 100% agree that Bush should face war trial at the end of his office.

    It is like your neighbour's son had thrown a bomb in your garden, and part of your house has been destroyed, and your brothers and sisters were either injured or dead. What will you do?

    Will you throw another one in your neighbour's garden to let more of his family suffer? I would have taken this answer if I haven't been exposed to Christianity.

    What did God tell us about enemies?

    Did the war in Iraq help reached any goal? Were you able to get back the lost lives of the American innocent people during 911 by starting up a war? How many fellow Americans died further ? How many civil rights of the innocent Iraqi people were endangered?

    Hanging Sadam Hussein gave the Americans Just ? Gave the world more human right? What is dictatorship???

    Why always pointing fingers to other countries about their human rights, about their democracy, about their dictatorship?? Whilst never looking into the mirror to reflect what the Americans had done right and wrong? Because you were the world number one economy, your purchase power had driven their world economy, because your are the big brother, you need to judge for your little sisters and brothers, or even overuling them? Because you are the big brother , you can make the rule of the game by neglecting the UN? Well, God is punishing you on that ! So wake up big brother, the world is different NOW more than ever.

    A Chinese saying goes: " Stand up and start again from where you have fallen! However, do not fall twice on the same rock."

    God bless America and the whole world!

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  • 314. At 10:44am on 11 Oct 2008, icetayoa wrote:

    Most Democrats on this board dont get it. As human beings, we are all entitled to a few indiscretions in life. to suggest that someone can be squeaky clean is ludicrous. the point however, is that as a human being one must acknowledge those indiscretions and make peace with them long before they become a burden to ones ambitions in life.

    My point being, i wont have had any problem with Obama if he had long distanced himself from his Pastor, before it became a burden to his blind ambition not to do so. Is Obama suggesting that if he were not running for President, he would not have found his pastors comment offensive? what does that say of him as a person? he worshipped in a church for so long with his family, was aware of his pastors comments and political leanings..he agreed by association with those leanings and comments to further his political career and just suddenly drops it like a hot potatoe when it presents itself has a stumbling block to his aspiration. Are any of you aware of what is referred to as guilty by association?

    Obama is not only disloyal to his pastor and church members, he also an opportunist that will readily deny links with anything or anyone in his past that constitute a stumbling block to his blind ambition.

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  • 315. At 1:44pm on 11 Oct 2008, dickie56 wrote:

    Bartlet for President

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  • 316. At 6:18pm on 11 Oct 2008, Peridot8 wrote:

    OldSouth - Why won't Obama provide a copy of his birth certificate.

    He has. Please try to keep up.

    http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg

    (BTW, why doesn't your screen name surprise me?)

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  • 317. At 6:58pm on 11 Oct 2008, Scribesolomon wrote:

    #112

    McCain, the President to be:

    If I am to put in metaphorical terms, the ship of U.S state is being storm tossed by
    a category 4 storm building up to a category 5 one. The last thing anyone wants is a 'green horn',say a Midshipman (being compared to BHO)-notwithstanding his academic attributes and posturings-to be at he helm!

    Rather it is a thoroughly seasoned 'old salt'
    like McCain-who incidentally was a real life
    Naval Officer-who is needed most at the helm to steady the ship and bring the ship safely to harbour.

    It is high time the voters (young and old, men and women) decide for themselves and vote in-free of biased reportings of certain sections of the press- the war veteran and seasoned politician, that Senator McCain is, for the benefit of not only themselves, but also for posterity.
    By voting for McCain, you are voting for
    Security of the U.S; for world peace and the reversal of the downward spiral of U.S and
    global economy.

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  • 318. At 8:27pm on 11 Oct 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    Mc cain wins by backing out and saying

    " the racial hatred this campaign has raised means I can no longer stand as president.
    My VP is a hate mongerer and I feel too ashamed to go out now, sorry.
    I've been a prize plonker"

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  • 319. At 8:59pm on 11 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    311, ish-ish.

    Very Mark Twainish. Thanks. We need every laugh we can get.

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  • 320. At 9:00pm on 11 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    315, Dickie.

    I prefer Bosc.

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  • 321. At 01:34am on 12 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #301

    Marby,

    Basically you make it like Beer. You boil up some wort using hops but honey as the carb load rather than malt.

    Cheers,

    Brewer Sam

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  • 322. At 02:34am on 12 Oct 2008, Robert Bennett wrote:

    Don't kid yourselves...Americans know OBAMA!, he's an affirmative action clone---a not very smart, black racist, socialist, likes-to-hear-himself-talk phoney, gay (but will not tell the truth) antiAmerican, TRAITOR! Hate him? good America's FEAR HIM and for or nation, with good, honest causes. And THIS IS THE "MAIN" PROBLEM. You will not even (be able too) print the truth--- fear and racism have blinded the truth and FREEDOM is lost. The American people know the truth, but many now want to DESTROY OUR OWN NATION and hold America hostage to racism and greed too see a racist PAY OFF they think they can vote in for themselves with OBAMA. I truely believe allthough my words are harsh, THEY ARE TRUE...but the NEW RACISM of "silient assertion" is making real dialouge IMPOSSIBLE and the resul will be civil war like riot.
    This race issue is the evil of all evils in America, as it turns out INTERGRATION was just another form of Racism, that is killing America. Blacks did not let it work! Just ONE example, EDUCATION...Trillions were spent to help blacks alone, what difference did it make? Show us any? The truth is so ugly you wouldn't dare, again "silient assertion" is killing the TRUTH. I spent many years of my life teaching, trying to help black people---what a tragic end to goodwill and truth.

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  • 323. At 03:32am on 12 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    321, Sam.

    When Yorkville was still a German section in Manhattan, my roommate and I would try out some drinks we never had before. What I remember particularly was something called "Berliner Weisser (sp.?)." It was white, served in something like a short-stemmed champagne glass, and was said to be a strawberry beer.

    Considering we spoke no German and the waitress only broken English, I am not sure I ever got it straight. It didn't taste like beer to me, but it was good. Do you have any idea what I am talking about? (Yes, I did have a little nip tonight.)

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  • 324. At 03:33am on 12 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    Sam, P.S.

    When I said it was white, I meant it was clear and without color.

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  • 325. At 03:38am on 12 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    322, rwbennett.

    You are a complete and utter loony bird. If I were your mommy I wouldn't let you out of the house.

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  • 326. At 03:48am on 12 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    322, rwbennett.

    Have you ever been convicted of a violent crime?

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  • 327. At 04:26am on 12 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #323,

    Marby,

    Probably a Weisse Beer, literally a German wheat beer. very sweet, It has a high carb content in the wort and often has a little sugar left over. They use a high tolerance yeast, so you generally end up with a sweet, strong beer, sometimes fairly cloudy. It deceives because it can be 8-9% alcohol but comes in a big glass.

    It's not to my taste, I like something with a lot of hops, like an IPA. But each to their own. A good one is really hard to brew.

    Boozer Sam.

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  • 328. At 04:29am on 12 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #322

    Thousand year Reich etc.

    Get help, really. Before you hurt yourself. And please turn in any firearms you own to local law enforcement now. You'll appreciate this advice in the long run.

    Sleepy Sam

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  • 329. At 04:34am on 12 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #324

    Marby,

    Gotcha. I still think it was a Weisse Beer, though they are usually a bit cloudy. There are several micro brewers who add strawberry juice to flavor these beers. You also find raspberry brews. Me, I like lemon juice in my mead ale but that is a different story.

    Good stuff, you can find beer like that in a number of places, many good micro brewers have them. There is a chain of bars round Cleveland, the Lizard or something like that where you can get these beverages.

    Cheers,

    Brewer Sam

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  • 330. At 04:43am on 12 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #302

    Aqua,

    I can only advise that those in southern climates do not requeen mid winter with Australian stock. This seems to be the cause of the hive die off. So far as we can tell. My gals are all ok so far. We always have to be vigilant for foulbrood and treat for mites, but most non commercial beekeepers are doing OK. The biug guys have been hit hard.

    I personally recommend using a Buckfast Abbey strain, there are a couple of really good Queen suppliers in Texas, and that we use those folks in spring. Down your way a lot of vigilance is needed due to Africanization of hives, thankfully so far we are free up here.

    All of that said, I had an OK harvest this year. One hive swarmed and the others started late. I still had 120lbs of honey. I traded 60 to local restaurants and a deli and gave away 30 to friends, neighbours and colleagues. That leaves me 30lbs to brew, about 5 gallons of wine strength mead and 15 gallons of mead ale.

    Beekeeper Sam

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  • 331. At 04:58am on 12 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    329, Sam.

    Thanks. At least now I know how to spell it. As you can see I know little about beer. My family drank it with seafood, but otherwise only occasionally.

    We have a new addition to the blog. A type for the most part unknown to us, or more honest that some of those known to us.

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  • 332. At 05:21am on 12 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    322, rwbennett.

    Why do you let hate consume your life? Do you have a life? I mean a real life, not a fantasy life.

    What I suspect from your ranting is that you are jealous of Obama. Unlike you he has made something of himself. What galls you is that he made something of himself - and is black. Only we whites should have that privilege.

    I will give you the opportunity to hate someone else - me. I have a black daughter-in-law that I would not trade for all the tea in China. I have a black doctor who happens to be the best qualified and the most intelligent physician I could find.

    See, now there is something else for you to rile against.

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  • 333. At 06:40am on 12 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    Last sentence: I should have said "rail" against.

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  • 334. At 3:01pm on 12 Oct 2008, johnofcavan wrote:

    Washington TImes October 12, 2008

    HYMAN: Obama's Kenya ghosts

    About 50 parishioners were locked into the Assemblies of God church before it was set ablaze. They were mostly women and children. Those who tried to flee were hacked to death by machete-wielding members of a mob numbering 2,000.

    The 2008 New Year Day atrocity in the Kenyan village Eldoret, about 185 miles northwest of Nairobi, had all the markings of the Rwanda genocide of a decade earlier.

    By mid-February 2008, more than 1,500 Kenyans were killed. Many were slain by machete-armed attackers. More than 500,000 were displaced by the religious strife. Villages lay in ruin. Many of the atrocities were perpetrated by Muslims against Christians.

    The violence was led by supporters of Raila Odinga, the opposition leader who lost the Dec. 27, 2007, presidential election by more than 230,000 votes. Odinga supporters began the genocide hours after the final election results were announced Dec. 30. Mr. Odinga was a member of Parliament representing an area in western Kenya, heavily populated by the Luo tribe, and the birthplace of Barack Obama's father.

    Mr. Odinga had the backing of Kenya's Muslim community heading into the election. For months he denied any ties to Muslim leaders, but fell silent when Sheik Abdullahi Abdi, chairman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum, appeared on Kenya television displaying a memorandum of understanding signed on Aug. 29, 2007, by Mr. Odinga and the Muslim leader. Mr. Odinga then denied his denials.

    The details of the MOU were shocking. In return for Muslim backing, Mr. Odinga promised to impose a number of measures favored by Muslims if he were elected president. Among these were recognition of "Islam as the only true religion," Islamic leaders would have an "oversight role to monitor activities of ALL other religions [emphasis in original]," installation of Shariah courts in every jurisdiction, a ban on Christian preaching, replacement of the police commissioner who "allowed himself to be used by heathens and Zionists," adoption of a women's dress code, and bans on alcohol and pork.

    This was not Mr. Odinga's first brush with notoriety. Like his father, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, the main opposition leader in the 1960s and 1970s, Raila Odinga is a Marxist He graduated from East Germany's Magdeburg University in 1970 on a scholarship provided by the East German government. He named his oldest son after Fidel Castro.

    Raila Odinga was implicated in the bloody coup attempt in 1982 against then-President Daniel Arap Moi, a close ally of the United States. Kenya has been one of the most stable democracies in Africa since the 1960s. The ethnic cleansing earlier this year was the worst violence in Kenya since that 1982 coup attempt.

    Mr. Odinga spent eight years in prison. At the time, he denied guilt but later detailed he was a coup leader in his 2006 biography. Statue of limitations precluded further prosecution when the biography appeared.

    Initially, Mr. Odinga was not the favored opposition candidate to stand in the 2007 election against President Mwai Kibaki, who was seeking his second term. However, he received a tremendous boost when Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Kenya in August 2006 to campaign on his behalf. Mr. Obama denies that supporting Mr. Odinga was the intention of his trip, but his actions and local media reports tell otherwise.

    Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama were nearly inseparable throughout Mr. Obama's six-day stay. The two traveled together throughout Kenya and Mr. Obama spoke on behalf of Mr. Odinga at numerous rallies. In contrast, Mr. Obama had only criticism for Kibaki. He lashed out against the Kenyan government shortly after meeting with the president on Aug. 25. "The [Kenyan] people have to suffer over corruption perpetrated by government officials," Mr. Obama announced.

    "Kenyans are now yearning for change," he declared. The intent of Mr. Obama's remarks and actions was transparent to Kenyans - he was firmly behind Mr. Odinga.

    Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama had met several times before the 2006 trip. Reports indicate Mr. Odinga visited Mr. Obama during trips to the U.S. in 2004, 2005 and 2006. Mr. Obama sent his foreign policy adviser Mark Lippert to Kenya in early 2006 to coordinate his summer visit. Mr. Obama's August trip coincided with strategizing by Orange Democratic Movement leaders to defeat Mr. Kibaki in the upcoming elections. Mr. Odinga represented the ODM ticket in the presidential race.

    Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama's father were both from the Luo community, the second-largest tribe in Kenya, but their ties run much deeper. Mr. Odinga told a stunned BBC Radio interviewer the reason why he and Mr. Obama were staying in near daily telephone contact was because they were cousins. In a Jan. 8, 2008, interview, Mr. Odinga said Mr. Obama had called him twice the day before while campaigning in the New Hampshire primary before adding, "Barack Obama's father is my maternal uncle."

    President Kibaki requested a meeting of all opposition leaders in early January in an effort to quell the violence. All agreed to attend except Mr. Odinga. A month later, Mr. Kibaki offered Mr. Odinga the role of prime minister, the de facto No. 2 in the Kenyan government, in return for an end to the attacks. Mr. Odinga was sworn in on April 17, 2008.

    Mr. Obama's judgment is seriously called into question when he backs an official with troubling ties to Muslim extremists and whose supporters practice ethnic cleansing and genocide. It was Islamic extremists in Kenya who bombed the U.S. Embassy in 1998, killing more than 200 and injuring thousands. None of this has dissuaded Mr. Obama from maintaining disturbing loyalties.

    Mark Hyman is an award-winning news commentator for Sinclair Broadcast Group Inc.

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  • 335. At 4:40pm on 12 Oct 2008, Picky Paul wrote:

    Bush Quayle,

    Bush/Cheyney ....

    McCain/Palin...

    Surely the American people won't play russian roulette again. A heartbeat away!!!

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  • 336. At 6:57pm on 12 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 337. At 7:09pm on 12 Oct 2008, turningblueandgrey wrote:

    334 (as for 192) why the need to paste your long posts word-for-word into every open topic?

    On another note, after all the derogation of the 'main stream media" (MSM) mostly at Palin rallies, I remain grateful for a free press, quality city newspapers, and investigative journalism.

    For a window into what seems to be an all-Republican $350 Million scandal featuring Abramoff, Ted Stevens, and perhaps even Lott and Snowe, look at the New York Times today for details about the mis-use of Missile Defense funds by a pari of cotnractors named Cantrell and Ennis. Skeptical Pentagon officials were told to back off from investigating this by Stevens, perhaps by Lott's staff, and other Republican legislators. The contractors hired an ex-congressman to cross the line into lobbying as well.

    $350 Million may seem like small change in today's headlines, but how endemic is this?

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  • 338. At 7:28pm on 12 Oct 2008, jzelouise wrote:

    Louise here, thank you for your kind remarks on my post @104. Not real awake at this time of day,so please forgive bad spelling, grammer and not directly replying with post number or name.
    Like the soap and alcohol posts, always good thing to know. I would add being able to preserve any food stuffs. I can salt cure hams...but someone else has to kill the pigs!

    Berliner Weisse beer is a wheat beer, not sure on the alcohol content. Usually served with some sort of sweetner, raspberry etc. as in it's natural state is a tad tart.

    The bars in Cleveland are called the Winking Lizard and are fun places. Cleveland has several microbrew pubs..Great Lakes and Rocky River come to mind.

    And rwbennett is definately a loon, kindest thing I can saw about him other than "Bless his heart or isn't that precious".

    Or he is collecting 'points'-see the Mccain website, there is a button where you can sign up, become a troll and get 'points' for responses to your posts...I kid you not.

    Think I'll go get that second cup of coffee and continue reading.

    Louise J.

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  • 339. At 10:16pm on 12 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    338, louise.

    I did check out the McCain website and found the buttons for posting on blogs. Yes, there are points per post and they want a report on what you said. I could have fun with this. Like most of his brainstorms it could backfire.

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  • 340. At 00:54am on 13 Oct 2008, Cassandra wrote:

    Only the lockstep 'Right' could see McCain (who only voted against the mainstream of his party about 10% of the time) as a maverick.

    Conservatives would vote the ticket if the candidates ate live puppies. The rest of us are on the run - whether to Obama or for the border only time will tell.

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  • 341. At 01:03am on 13 Oct 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #334

    John,

    Odinga is a nut and the Washington times a right wing rag writing scare stories based on the say so of said nut. This was debunked by the fact checkers weeks ago as another smear. Sort of like the following

    I am John McCains cousin. Sortof. I talk to him every day, it's easy because Sarah is talking to Jesus most of the time. That is when we don't put the ball gag in. John is actually very very unwell, and probabaly won't last much past the inauguration. The whole campaign is a plot by Karl Rove to get another puppet president for him to manipulate. And BTW as soon as Sarah takes over she's be inviting, guess who, Cheney, to be her VP. Cunning, don;t you think?

    Conspiracy Sam

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  • 342. At 02:45am on 13 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    341, Sam.

    My greatest fear is not McCain or Palin, but Joe Lieberman. He will be his buddy McCain's right hand and he is a dangerous warmonger. They say he will be secretary of state.

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  • 343. At 03:26am on 13 Oct 2008, everyoneiscrazy wrote:

    Call me out there but even if Palin is right about Obama being a friend of terrorists surely it's a good thing?

    I mean they aren't gonna come over bombing a friends place.

    That would be rude.

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  • 344. At 03:53am on 13 Oct 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    343, everyone

    That reminds me of one of my sisters telling me that a prominent mafioso had bought a house just down the road. She asked me if she should leave the neighgborood. I said, "Hell, no. Now you can leave your door open at night."

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  • 345. At 05:52am on 13 Oct 2008, mobytom2 wrote:

    341 "And BTW as soon as Sarah takes over she's be inviting, guess who, Cheney, to be her VP. Cunning, don;t you think?"

    Actually, didn't you know that she's already decided to make Todd her VP based on his executive experience as virtual Governor of Alaska. They will be known as the Joe Six-Pack Duo.

    First up they'll announce a pre-emptive strike against Russia from Alaska. Then they'll appoint six carefully selected Wasilla school friends as Federal Judges - for the good of the country. Then send all americans a cheque for $1200 following drilling in Alaska's protected wilderness area. If they run out of money they'll just print a bit more.

    Oh, and they'll continue to live in Wasilla and claim travel expenses for the occasional trip to Washington. This is to make sure they don't forget the ordinary American.

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  • 346. At 07:06am on 13 Oct 2008, everyoneiscrazy wrote:

    345.

    Sorry just got a mental image of Palin and the Todd slinging empty beer cans at russia from a home made catapult shouting "take that commies".

    I may need to lie down.

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  • 347. At 7:23pm on 13 Oct 2008, Hodnut wrote:

    I do like the comment about the Civil War. Of course the problem with it is Lincoln was a republican and the democratic party was the dominant party in the Confederacy. So any republican mouthpiece at the end of the US Civil War was firmly pro-Union.

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  • 348. At 2:54pm on 14 Oct 2008, 00derek wrote:

    OldSouth, the fact that you know what the BBC is suggests you are capable of rational thought. So I'm sure you will listen when I say "don't spread lies", as you did here;

    "And, by the way--why won't he produce an official birth certificate from Hawaii, and end that particular controversy? All he need do is get a few official copies, and hand them over to credible journalists from all shades of opinion. Presto, lawsuit goes away, that question subsides, and people's confidence in him is increased."

    BHO has indeed given "credible journalists" an "official copy" of his birth certificate -

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

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