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Palin under pressure

Justin Webb | 08:45 UK time, Monday, 29 September 2008

My guess is that John McCain would like the bail-out - sorry, rescue plan - sorry, national investment strategy - to pass only at the end of the week, in order to divert attention from the train-wreck in St Louis on Thursday when the woman rational, educated Americans regard with ever-increasing horror steps into the ring with Joe Biden.

I think it is perfectly possible that Palin will "win" - some good pre-prepared stunts should do the trick - but at a cost: further alienation of the college-educated centre ground. Palin fever still exists at the grassroots but it has disappeared among the Republican elite and been replaced by plain old sweats. This is typical of what you hear. There is increasing confidence on the left that she can and should be attacked and no shortage of material that suggests a clean-cut hockey mom image is about to be destroyed.

McCain said in the debate that he and he alone of the two candidates understood the difference between tactics and strategy. His problem is that he is all tactics, Sarah Palin being proof of that. And Obama is all strategy, which is not ideal either...

Comments

  • 1. At 09:19am on 29 Sep 2008, bk9061 wrote:

    yey 1st one in!!

    yeah should be interesting. The Palin effect is turning into a farce. Maybe the senate could provide a bailout.

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  • 2. At 09:20am on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:



    There is a great danger for Sarah Palin on Thursday which hasn't really been touched upon. I understand that she is being coached to "go after" Obama rather than allow her own inexperience to be exposed.

    Indeed on her first public outing she likened herself to a pitbull - which is not exactly the sort of image people expect of a female politician, certainly in these troubled times and particularly coming from one who knows so little of the world.

    If she comes across as screechy and aggressive, she will surely alienate most of the women voters who she is meant to attract. It may not go down with men either.

    And we should remember that although he was squeezed of oxygen by the electric presence of HRC and Obama, Joe Biden was considered to have been the best debater in the Democratic primaries.

    He is going to talk a lot of sense from an enormous mental database of knowledge. Her best line would be to listen and show some sensitivity and agreement with the historic perspective which he will put on issues. Unfortunately, her backers have cut off this approach by claiming in ads that when Obama acknowledged agreement with McCain on any point, that proved that he wasn't fit to lead !

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  • 3. At 09:27am on 29 Sep 2008, Medea wrote:

    With all this "train-wreck" talk, if Palin is anything above completely terrible it will be seen as a great success on her part.

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  • 4. At 09:46am on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:



    Everyone who is interested in this campaign should take a look at John Kerry talking on Fox News Sunday morning. (Ed - clip on Huffpo)

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  • 5. At 09:50am on 29 Sep 2008, lordBeddGelert wrote:

    In the UK the bookmakers have already opened a bet on whether Palin will be removed before November, but it was at 16-1 initially. So they don't think it is a strong possibility, although the punters might and chase the price down.

    But to coin a country phrase, who would want to be seen 'changing their horses in mid stream' ?

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  • 6. At 09:54am on 29 Sep 2008, dceilar wrote:

    #3

    Yes. It looks like the Palin Express is going off the rails and landing in a ditch somewhere.

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  • 7. At 10:01am on 29 Sep 2008, paul939 wrote:

    If Biden gets started on foreign policy, then Palin will be a disaster. Oh wait, she's a disaster already.

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  • 8. At 10:13am on 29 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    Justin:

    I am not sure what you mean by can and will be attacked.

    The left has been viciously atting Palin since day 1. And instead of focusing on issues and inexperience they have have done personal attacks and lie.

    What do you expect from George Soros and the Daily Kos.

    You seem to be ingoring the Master of Gaffes: Joe Biden

    Remember Joe:

    People in wheelchairs may not be able to stand
    There was no TV in the 1930
    FDR became President in 1932
    Do not say that Palin is clean

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  • 9. At 10:32am on 29 Sep 2008, FinMember wrote:

    sp lack of experience combined with a whinny sharp voice does not sound like a recipe for success. I hope Biden exposes her lack of world geography knowledge and lack of any foreign policy experience although she can see Russia and Alaska has a long border with Canada. How can any thinking person think anything but how stupid she has sounded when allowed to speak to the press. Katie Couric destroyed her image by letting her answer questions. If mccain campaign is unable to stop troopergate she could be dropped before November; are you ready Romney or Huckabee.

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  • 10. At 10:37am on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    It will be interesting to see how good a politician Sarah Palin is.

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  • 11. At 10:44am on 29 Sep 2008, jkirk1626 wrote:

    "[T]he woman rational, educated Americans regard with ever-increasing horror". Remarkable and typical objectivity from the BBC. Any American who Palin doesn't horrify must be irrational and uneducated in Justin Webb's view. It was a delight to see the UK Telegraph call out Webb's polling sources when he declared the death of Social Conservatism upon Terry Schiavo's death despite, according to Gallup 51% of Americans believe abortion is morally wrong; only 40% say it is morally acceptable. 53% consider themselves "pro-choice" on abortion, whereas 42% call themselves "pro-life." Unpopular? Like Webb says, "look at the polls".

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  • 12. At 10:51am on 29 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    8. At 10:13am on 29 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
    Justin:

    I am not sure what you mean by can and will be attacked.

    The left has been viciously atting Palin since day 1. And instead of focusing on issues and inexperience they have have done personal attacks and lie."

    It seems Palin has problems with the truth.


    "You seem to be ingoring the Master of Gaffes: Joe Biden

    Remember Joe:

    People in wheelchairs may not be able to stand
    There was no TV in the 1930
    FDR became President in 1932"

    Wacky do, is this the bst you can do? At least he knows what country he is in

    "Do not say that Palin is clean"

    Palin is a small town politician completely out of her depth.

    It is insulting to the whole country that McCain thinks she is ready for such high office.




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  • 13. At 10:56am on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Gus, This one?

    Do learn, 'cause I may not be around forever ;-)

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  • 14. At 11:06am on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    Incidentally, in this piece which I found along the way, Uri Avnery says the Arabs started the 1948 war.

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  • 15. At 11:11am on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Some perspective on the bailout from the best data analysis site I'm aware of.

    FTSE almost down 3%

    Enjoy the ride! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

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  • 16. At 11:13am on 29 Sep 2008, jayfurneaux wrote:

    Saying that Palin wasn`t up to the job because she`s a woman would be sexist. Ridiculing her dress sense, her ability to drive etc would also be sexist.
    Discussing her opinions, policy and record; as with any other politician is completely legitimate and not sexist. I notice Condoleezza Rice isn`t protected in the same way, possibly because she`s very experienced and more than able to hold their own in debate. The same applied to Thatcher.

    It does show a weakness of the Democrats in that so far they`ve really struggled with this issue, unable to deploy a pitbull of their own, able to just blaze away (think Tebbit or Balir) or someone simply able to laugh off the sexism defence; Hilary could do it but is clearly unwilling to play anymore.

    And Biden, Biden; the name rings a bell. Haven`t heard much of him so far have we? Friday could be his big opportunity as Palin`s seconds will be outside the ring.

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  • 17. At 11:15am on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Palin's Favorability Drops To -10 In Tracking Poll

    How low can she go???


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  • 18. At 11:24am on 29 Sep 2008, UKAndy73 wrote:

    With just a few weeks to go, it appears BHO is going to make it to election day pretty much unscathed. Not bad seeing the amount of time he has been up there to be shot at. Palin on the other hand, although protected from any difficult questions, seems likely to go from saviour to liability in just a few weeks. A couple more and she could have done enough to give Obama a substantial victory.

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  • 19. At 11:26am on 29 Sep 2008, Tramp wrote:

    Sarah Palin is a laughing stock and thanks to Youtube the whole world can share in the joke.

    Anyone who is thinking of voting should really look carefully at her interview with CBS last week. And then compare it to Tina Fey on SNL at the weekend.

    The really scary thing was that Tina's joke answers made more sense and were delivered with far more lucidity than were managed by the prospective vice-president.

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  • 20. At 11:27am on 29 Sep 2008, exserviceman wrote:

    Laughs at Justin.

    Mccain selected Sarah Palin was selected for a number of reasons:-

    1. She's a conservative Christian on social issues - just enough to prevent dissillusioned "Huckabee" evangelicals from running a independent candidate in the South, or staying at home in November.

    Just remember how Huckabee stuck to fighting John Maccain for the Nomination right until the last moment, not until Mccain gained Texas did the minister back out. That is a clear warning.

    I also predict a massive turn-out in the South, smashing all records. Obama will clean up with the college kids and Black folks, but Mccain will deploy an army of grey voters and evangelicals.

    2. To focus the resentment of Independent women who liked Hillery Clinton, and feel unease at Obama's "sweety" attitude.

    If Joe Biden goes over the top in attacking Palin [he knows quite a lot about foreign affairs - but can sound a bit wind baggy] then he can fall into a nasty trap.

    Forget logic, if he comes accross as smart-arsed male old coot tring to put down a younger charismatic [ok shes not Diana but relatively speaking] woman who is just starting in National politics, then that will start to get women against the Obama/Biden Ticket.

    3. She is inexperienced at foreign affairs, which meens she will listen to Mccain's Ideas and likely stick with them if she did replace him after a health issue. Obviously her gut instinct to to fight Al Quaida to the end or she wouldn't have been selected.

    Too many other republican candidates go back to being isolationists given a choice on the matter. Its that Ron Paul tendency.

    So Basically Maccain does have a strategy with the Palin pick, keep the evangelicals on side, appeal to women [even if its just on an emotional level] and a reliable courageous person with the heart not to let the troops down on the home front.

    From his point of view anyway.

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  • 21. At 11:40am on 29 Sep 2008, BillTyrone wrote:

    .........there is a completely reverse way of looking at this situation which I offered just after the surprise announcement of her candidature and I am going to say it again.....pour memoire............

    I genuinely have nothing against Sarah Palin as an individual and her family. Yes, she is no shrinking violet; yes she has achieved, yes she has future potential and, yes, maybe there are fermenting issues and storm clouds circling. The situation is that she has supporters, detractors and many still unsure.

    But take all the weight of criticism, the ire and worse that has been, is and will continue to be vented against her and her family and park it to one side for a moment.

    Ok, it is a subjective view, but I have to say that my feeling on how this would pan out has been reinforced over the last 3 weeks...... a belief that inspite of her career track record to date and future potential etc, Ms Palin is simply NOT yet ready to aspire to the office of VP of the United States of America here in 2008. So what you ask?

    The really big issue for me is this. This nomination is a judgement call by Senator John McCain of staggering ineptitude and selfishness. His advisors, his team of experts, briefed in a perceived serious gap in his electoral *Camelot* and dropped in Sarah Palin as their proposed fix. No ifs and buts, he and he alone as presidential nominee accepted and rubber stamped it.

    After a whirlwind two or so meetings I believe, a lady at full stretch, juggling a busy professional career role and that of mother of a large family and special needs infant is literally thrust into a limelight of infinite intensity and scrutiny.

    The fact that she could have said no is irrelevant. I wonder if she actually did initially? The key facet to this whole escapade is that Sarah Palin should never ever have been invited to run by those who put their needs so clearly before her own and that of her family.

    Dare I say, that between today and x5 weeks tommorow, this girl, who is so clearly not ready and out of her depth, is going to be very seriously mauled - politically and personally.

    I genuinely hope that when it is accepted that quite such an irresponsible gamble didn't come off, those ready with the knives out will be able to step back, leave her alone and re-direct total blame smack into the lap of Sen John McCain.

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  • 22. At 11:53am on 29 Sep 2008, Pancha Chandra wrote:

    Palin has a golden opportunity to show her true mettle at the VP debate. One should give her the chance to spell out her economic vision and foreign policy expertise. Joe Biden has had yeoman experience and is highly respected. This debate will be a clash between experience versus relatively untested waters. Will experience triumph?

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  • 23. At 12:04pm on 29 Sep 2008, peterdough wrote:

    Justin,

    As I see it, all Joseph Biden really needs to do is spell out the issues facing the US, and then the Democratic Party prescription/prognosis.

    If Sarah Palin is going to put her foot in it, that's up to her.

    I would like to see the VP candidates show a little more respect towards each other and the process, and a preparedness to cooperate, if not warmth than the display from McCain the other night.

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  • 24. At 12:10pm on 29 Sep 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    The upcoming VP debate is definitely going to be a defining moment for this presidential campaign, as it will either reassure concerned Republicans of the viability of Sarah Palin for the VP spot, or convince them that electing her would pose an unacceptable risk for our country.

    While her intelligence, ambition, and charisma are indisputable, her limited knowledge of national and international matters - and her exposure to those matters - is clearly evident even to the Republican base. Unfortunately, this setting will be very different from the UN photo op.

    As a result, the only option available to the GOP is to prepare her for unrelenting attacks against Obama, Biden and the "liberal orthodoxy" to deflect attention from her own shortcomings. Whether or not that tactic will produce the desired results remains to be seen. I expect the GOP hardcore to be re-energized and supportive of a person willing to do whatever it takes to win, but I doubt pragmatic Republican conservatives, and much less the Independents, will be too impressed with a performance limited to attacks and lacking substance.

    I expect a lot of drama with frequent religious overtones designed to rally the evangelical and fundamentalist base that is so critical to GOP candidates.

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  • 25. At 12:17pm on 29 Sep 2008, Parrisia wrote:

    Palin's choice not just tactics, it's also strategy: she will bring in all the born-again christian, gun-loving, pro-life heartland America that were sceptical of McCain's rather but not quite liberal record in the Senate.

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  • 26. At 12:22pm on 29 Sep 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    Ref 16

    "It does show a weakness of the Democrats in that so far they`ve really struggled with this issue, unable to deploy a pitbull of their own, able to just blaze away (think Tebbit or Balir) or someone simply able to laugh off the sexism defence; Hilary could do it but is clearly unwilling to play anymore."

    My guess is that the Obama campaign concluded that the best strategy is to let her self-destruct as her shortcomings become evident to everyone. It is a risky strategy considering the fact that many voters base their decision on charisma, affinity with the religious and social values of the candidates, and their ability to connect with mainstream America.

    While her unpreparedness for the job is palpable, it is also apparent that Sarah Palin is very appealing to many Americans, not so much because of her gender, but because she is regarded as one of us...a product of the middle class with the same strengths and weaknesses that we all have. I would not dismiss her candidacy of the basis of being technically unqualified for the job. Fortunately, for the Dems, McCain is the one that is self-destructing.

    BTW, I plan to vote for Obama because I think he is the most qualified, I am impressed by his demeanor and vision, and because I am convinced that he has the best proposals to solve our fiscal and economic woes. I am not too impressed with his foreign policy proposals, but support his decision to leave Iraq expeditiously.

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  • 27. At 12:25pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:


    # 15

    Nate Silver's piece on the bailout mentions that neither candidate did a very good job of explaining it during the debate on Friday night.

    This is being repeated all over the place but they knew that it would have been the height of irresponsibility to say too much in the middle of the negotiations - when the final outcome was still uncertain. But they both know that it is all very bad news indeed for whoever wins the election.

    Of course, the job of explaining the situation to the people of America should have fallen to the current president - or even to Hank Paulson. It is their reticence which has caused the confusion and resentment.

    What we may find out after the bailout has been approved, is just how close the dollar came to disaster. The enormous measures that have had to be taken behind closed doors indicate that much more than market confidence was at stake. The way that even the most die-hard free market conservatives have more or less come on board (or at least kept fairly quiet about their opposition) indicates that there was something HUGE at risk here.

    Something so horrific that it could not be spelt out in public.

    When and if confidence returns, there is a duty to the whole world to explain properly what went wrong, why, and who was responsible for letting it get there. OK Messrs. Bush, Cheney, Bernanke and Paulson ?

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  • 28. At 12:27pm on 29 Sep 2008, twokidsandadog wrote:

    The only way Biden will destroy Palin in the debate is during the two minutes of discussion on each topic just to ask her questions (i.e. do what Katie Couric did). Unfortunately, the gaffe machine has far too big an ego for that.

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  • 29. At 12:36pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Bill,

    "I genuinely hope that when it is accepted that quite such an irresponsible gamble didn't come off, those ready with the knives out will be able to step back, leave her alone and re-direct total blame smack into the lap of Sen John McCain."
    Seconded, seconded, seconded!

    Salaam, etc.
    ed

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  • 30. At 12:40pm on 29 Sep 2008, UKAndy73 wrote:

    Anyone know how long the VP debate is scheduled to last? Could be much more fun than Obama vs McCain as surely neither Palin nor Biden can last out for any length of time without coming unstuck (Palin) or making a few "gaffs" (Biden).
    I also wanted to test out Ed's helpful how-to link!

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  • 31. At 12:42pm on 29 Sep 2008, Candace9839 wrote:

    The Obama campaign has tapes of her from Alaska debates, and are saying she is a "terrific" debater. Hard to imagine given her news interviews to date. Biden is a skilled and experienced debater and is not cramming the facts she is struggling to get a grasp on. Even in Philadelphia, she was caught off guard on Pakistan by a graduate student on queue with her for a cheesesteak and ended up stating Obama's position.

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  • 32. At 12:51pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Dominick,

    "While her intelligence, ambition, and charisma are indisputable,"
    Well, two out of three ain't bad....

    ;-)
    ed

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  • 33. At 12:55pm on 29 Sep 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    How about BBC and Webb under pressure? BBC's coverage of the campaign and the current economic crisis which swirls through it so far has been nothing short of pathetic when compared to ANY of the American media. While CNN, MSNBC, Fox, CNBC, have had parades of armies of top flight analysts, pundits, polls takers, insiders, economists, lifelong observers of US politics and other subject matter experts on their screens day and night, BBC has made what must be called a feeble effort. We see Huckabee on Fox with his own television program now. We see Carl Rove, Newt Gingrich, Pat Buchannan, James Carville, and others who know the system, the people, the process inside out. By comparison BBC seems more like gawkers than reporters. Their superficial comments seem to be gleaned from the headlines of local small town newspapers. When we get to the real heavy hitters of the American reporting media, PBS, C-SPAN, NPR, we see BBC so badly outclassed as to be a joke.

    Personally, I'm waiting to see the debates for myself before I make up my mind. Biden has been highly overrated IMO. Less than a year ago before the surge, he said Iraq should be broken up into three largely autonomous zones with a loose central government. I can't imaging a more certain way to start a civil war which would involve the entire region as ethnic battles and fights over oil revenues would become the main focus of contention for every one of Iraq's neighbors and its own population. Unlike the media in general and BBC in particular, I am not going to pre-judge what will happen. Palin is not nearly so ignorant or stupid as the media have painted her and Biden is not nearly so smart. He may have the facts, but time and again the voters of his own party have judged him unsuitable to sit in the White House. He couldn't even find speech writers to come up with original material. We still remember that they had to steal Neal Kinnock's speech to find words to put in the Senator's mouth.

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  • 34. At 12:59pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Gus,

    "Of course, the job of explaining the situation to the people of America should have fallen to the current president - or even to Hank Paulson. It is their reticence which has caused the confusion and resentment."
    The problem with this suggestion is that one can't do it, and the other is so conflicted that nobody would listen, let alone believe...

    As noted elsewhere, the detail is available:
    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

    and summarised HERE

    Happy reading! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!
    ed

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  • 35. At 1:02pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Game Plan for Palin Is Retooled Ahead of Debate

    "The McCain campaign moved its top officials inside Gov. Sarah Palin's operation Sunday to prepare for what is certain to be the most important event of her vice-presidential campaign: her debate on Thursday with Democrat Joe Biden.

    Additionally, at the urging of the Republican presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain, Gov. Palin will leave late Monday for his Arizona ranch to prepare for the high-stakes debate.

    The moves follow several shaky performances by Gov. Palin last week and come amid concern and grumbling from Republicans, and even a few queries from her husband, Todd Palin, according to campaign operatives and Republican officials."
    Good luck to them. An uphill struggle, I suspect.

    ;-)
    ed

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  • 36. At 1:03pm on 29 Sep 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]if anyone is interested in 110 pages of nonsense.

    This is just days before October, the month of surprises. The bailout is to little, to late,
    and tilted to helping larger coroporoations and banks, being weeks till it "trickles down" to the corner store where Ron can't get the credit to purchase fuel to sell in his independent station.

    That said, it is more important that we shop locally supporting the little guy,.. he must be assisted locally . Sure fuel there is three cents more a gallon,, sixty cents on a tank to you may make the difference of haveing to buy from Walmart twenty five miles away next month, costing six additional dollars in spent fuel to buy fuel.

    Palin, minor league playing in the big field, sometimes that makes stars. Even with Kerrys recomendation of Obama, Obama is also minor league playing in the big time as well. Will he do better, we'll see I think, but not with my vote. Face it, I'm a racist.

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  • 37. At 1:06pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Market headlines If anyone's interested...;-)

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  • 38. At 1:08pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #27 wanderingangus
    The nightmare for the dollar would be if it stopped being a reserve currency in a big way.

    In a way, it's a vicious circle. The dollar's value drops. Other nations start selling dollars. The dollar drops even more.

    What militates against that is all of the products priced in dollars (which therefore require dollar transactions) and that some governments maintain their reserves in dollars because of political affinities, not just as a financial strategy.

    The reason it's a nightmare is that suddenly the dollar's value would drop and inflation would take off. The Federal Reserve would have to deflate the American economy. It would hurt a lot.

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  • 39. At 1:10pm on 29 Sep 2008, alanskillcole wrote:

    That other Bush won even with Quayle on the ticket.
    People remember Lloyd Bentsen's JFK comment to Quayle...And, later on, Quayle and spelling "potato---E", Quayle and "Murphy Brown".
    But the Bush-Quayle ticket won.

    So, Matt Damon, etc could be seeing the bad Disney movie they fear!
    It'd be funny though...
    I've been thinking of "Failsafe"/"Dr. Strangelove" /..."Logan's Run"?/and the mix of sort of end-of-time/Ann Coulter/New Testament-Revelations folk...could see some fireworks in the next 2 years - if McCain gets in.
    Kind of funny to see how far the absurdities of life can go...quite good fun...but none of us perfect. :-)

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  • 40. At 1:10pm on 29 Sep 2008, phil29 wrote:


    Where I am from we have a saying

    "you want to run with the big dogs, you better
    grow some legs"

    Palin does not have the "legs" to run with the big dogs.

    She should be treated EXACTLY the way that
    McCains camp treated Hillary.

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  • 41. At 1:10pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #31 Candace9839
    Do you think the Obama campaign can say she's an idiot ?

    They will want their man to have won something if he wins.

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  • 42. At 1:13pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #33 MarcusAureliusII
    The point those who advocate the breakup of Iraq into 3 states seem to miss is that two of them would not have a deep water port.

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  • 43. At 1:13pm on 29 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "20. At 11:27am on 29 Sep 2008, exserviceman wrote:
    Laughs at Justin.

    Mccain selected Sarah Palin was selected for a number of reasons:-

    1. She's a conservative Christian on social issues - just enough to prevent dissillusioned "Huckabee" evangelicals from running a independent candidate in the South, or staying at home in November.

    Just remember how Huckabee stuck to fighting John Maccain for the Nomination right until the last moment, not until Mccain gained Texas did the minister back out. That is a clear warning.

    I also predict a massive turn-out in the South, smashing all records. Obama will clean up with the college kids and Black folks, but Mccain will deploy an army of grey voters and evangelicals.

    2. To focus the resentment of Independent women who liked Hillery Clinton, and feel unease at Obama's "sweety" attitude.

    If Joe Biden goes over the top in attacking Palin [he knows quite a lot about foreign affairs - but can sound a bit wind baggy] then he can fall into a nasty trap.

    Forget logic, if he comes accross as smart-arsed male old coot tring to put down a younger charismatic [ok shes not Diana but relatively speaking] woman who is just starting in National politics, then that will start to get women against the Obama/Biden Ticket.

    3. She is inexperienced at foreign affairs, which meens she will listen to Mccain's Ideas and likely stick with them if she did replace him after a health issue. Obviously her gut instinct to to fight Al Quaida to the end or she wouldn't have been selected.

    Too many other republican candidates go back to being isolationists given a choice on the matter. Its that Ron Paul tendency.

    So Basically Maccain does have a strategy with the Palin pick, keep the evangelicals on side, appeal to women [even if its just on an emotional level] and a reliable courageous person with the heart not to let the troops down on the home front.

    From his point of view anyway. "

    So he did not chose her because he thought she was competent and knowledgeable.

    The fact she was a woman was a central factor.

    Sounds pretty contemptible. If a candidate chose someone largely because they were black it would cause uproar.

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  • 44. At 1:14pm on 29 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #20

    Exservice,

    You are correct on McCain choosing Sarah to energize his base. That she did, very effectively, giving him a lock on the SE (excluding Florida which looks iffy for him)

    With regards to independent women, that may have been the intention but it seems to have backfired rather badly since she has so little in common with them other than two X chromosones. While a lot of 'Hilary supporters' like Rush Limbaugh (who said he'd vote for her before he would McCain) have come on board there are few Dem or Indy women who are planning to vote for McCain/Palin. And the more they see of her the more they dislike her.

    As for your third point, she would only take over from McCain if he were dead. I don't know how far her religion takes her on speaking to the dead but one wonders if John would be in a good position to offer objective advice from 6 feet under.Now there is the other scenario that like Ronnies second term she becomes President in all but name, like G Bush senior. Then they only roll McCain out on days when he isn't drooling. That may be the scariest scenario of all. Sarah surrounded by her high school friends running the government.

    Thursday will be interesting. If you say the wrong thing at Gino's and have to retract, I wonder how bad things can get on national TV.

    That said, she'll have lots of rehearsed answers and the Reps will claim she won the debate just as, apparently, according to them, John won Friday. And has since seen this reflected in his remarkable bounce in the polls. Not.

    Politico Sam

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  • 45. At 1:16pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    The $700 Billion Question: Which Firm Will Manage the Bailout Money?

    "Pimco appears to be in there pitching heavily. Its media-friendly chief investment officer, Bill Gross, used a Washington Post op-ed article to support the bailout. He said on CNBC last week, “We have interest in managing this giant pool of assets, and we expect to be called.” This week, he offered to take the assignment for free.

    Was good citizenship the only thing on Gross’s mind? Maybe not. Sure, there is a precedent for some pro bono work by Wall Street firms, a la Morgan Stanley, which received only a nominal fee for advising the government on the conservatorships of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and American International Group. But Gross’s offer came with a challenge: he would work for no fee “if everybody else” worked on the same basis. "
    I love it! Give me 700 Billion, and I'll manage it forya, and I won't even charge you a penny....

    ;-)
    ed

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  • 46. At 1:16pm on 29 Sep 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    Ed, thought you might like this advice on the markets. My oh my how times have changed.

    Peace,.. out

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  • 47. At 1:18pm on 29 Sep 2008, duhbuh wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 48. At 1:20pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Ms Marbles, Sam, G&R, Dominick, British-ish, Oxford Mark, (we need a few more lassies to dress the group up a bit...;-))

    Why don't we form a consortium and offer to manage the $700,000,000,000? We'll only need a modest per diem for out of pocket expenses.

    Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee!

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  • 49. At 1:28pm on 29 Sep 2008, Young-Mr-Grace wrote:

    While neither candidate seems to inspire confidence over the banking crisis it is interesting that Justin suggests that McCain's campaign is all tactics while Obama's is all strategy. Justin is of course right that a campaign should have both. However one would expect the campaign to reflect the character of the candidate. If so then can we conclude that McCain is a tactical thinker while Obama is more confortable with strategy? I would suggest that the role of President is one which requires strategy more than tactics. Leaders do strategey while tactics can be delegated once the strategy is in place. The one who sits in the oval office must be the one who sets the strategic agenda. I'd suggest that this is doubly so in these unsettled times.

    You're all doing very well !!

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  • 50. At 1:28pm on 29 Sep 2008, dceilar wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 51. At 1:29pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    My own feeling is that IF Biden can play well back, she'll dig her own grave. He's got little to prove, and she's got everything.

    Joe, just remember your manners and go easy. Remember Churchill's dictum, "Magnanimity in victory, not triumphalism" (I paraphrase) Pity "The West" chose the latter after the fall of the wall resulting in the recent difficulties...

    Salaam, etc.
    ed

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  • 52. At 1:35pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    According to the BBC coverage of the financial bailout:


    Banks that accept bail-out money will have to hand over shares in return, which allows tax payers to benefit from the banks' recovery

    Can anyone explain why the US government would want to own shares ?

    The implication of the wording of the BBC piece and the fact that the US govt wants shares rather than money is that they expect to profit from them.

    So when do they sell them ? Who decides ? What if they lose money based on their original value when they were handed over ? Then they should have taken money or just priced the securities differently and lower.

    It also suggests that the pricing of the securities taken by the govt institution will be quite crude. Purchase pricing of these securities needed to be the most precise and sophisticated part of the whole deal.

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  • 53. At 1:42pm on 29 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #33

    LOL Marcus,

    Are you trying to reinvent yourself now as an independent so you can be 'converted' later? Isn't that like being a 'Virgin again'. We should get you a ring.

    If you hate the BBC so much why bother spending so much time posting on their blogs and reading the obscure stuff? Oh hang on' you are trying to help them improve their standard of jouranlism?

    How are things in the electrical trade? Has the crisis hit you yet?

    Happy Sam

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  • 54. At 1:45pm on 29 Sep 2008, ghanimah wrote:

    "...when the woman rational, educated Americans regard with ever-increasing horror"

    I would ask, Justin, who you would vote for in the American election if you could but is there any point as we're left in no doubt who it would be?

    Please explain how the above line is impartial, or indeed not in breach of the BBC guidelines
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/advice/personalweb/blogging_news.shtml

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  • 55. At 1:46pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Doug (46),

    Thanks for that, but I don't like paying for "advice". Being my own advisor means I've only got myself to blame (or praise - rarely).

    I remember a saying, "If you're so damned smart, why ain't you rich?" I used to think I was quite smart, but I still ain't rich, except on a "global" scale, where I reckon most of us on this blog fall within the top 5%.

    My excuse now would be that "money isn't everything," but, truth be told, I really haven't the cojones for leverage and high risks. I like being solvent - Mortgage paid, kids grown & ancestors buried - It makes a great position from which to watch the game.

    Slainte!!
    ed

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  • 56. At 1:49pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Chill0,

    "Can anyone explain why the US government would want to own shares ?"
    Can anyone NOT?


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  • 57. At 1:54pm on 29 Sep 2008, dceilar wrote:

    Here's an interesting take on the current 'bailout' from Michael Moore:

    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=235

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  • 58. At 1:55pm on 29 Sep 2008, Candace9839 wrote:

    Re:#41. Good point. Wonder if they will be using flash cards in Arizona starting this evening like they had to do for Reagan's cabinet meetings.

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  • 59. At 1:58pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    41. chill0:

    "#31 Candace9839
    Do you think the Obama campaign can say she's an idiot ?

    They will want their man to have won something if he wins."



    Obama seemed very reluctant to go after Palin during his CBS interview yesterday. Obama was asked several times about her. He wouldn't go there. Hmmm...wonder why he won't talk about her inexperience. Could it be that he doesn't relish being compared to her when it comes to experience?

    He should take some lessons from Bill Clinton who has managed to weasle out of every direct question about whether he admires or respects Obama. Clinton just repeats his own policies and says Obama's right for supporting them.





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  • 60. At 1:58pm on 29 Sep 2008, Adrian_Evitts wrote:

    Palin's alleged misfeasance of public office is hardly Watergate! Here's an example.

    My father moved to Wales to become the second owner of a recently built bungalow in a hamlet. He told me that the development was initially refused planning permission which was only granted when a second application was made whilst the planning officer was on holiday.

    There is insufficient evidence to bury Palin in terms of her bending of the rules. What concerns me is her inability and seeming lack of desire to understand cultures beyond her own. This does not bode well for international relations.

    I didn't see the debate (no telly) but it doesn't surprise me that McCain got first blood. There's much to respect about the old fella, of that I am sure.

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  • 61. At 1:58pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #56 Ed Iglehart
    Yes, me.

    Please explain.

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  • 62. At 1:59pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Spooky!

    Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee!

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  • 63. At 2:00pm on 29 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "54. At 1:45pm on 29 Sep 2008, ghanimah wrote:
    "...when the woman rational, educated Americans regard with ever-increasing horror"

    I would ask, Justin, who you would vote for in the American election if you could but is there any point as we're left in no doubt who it would be?

    Please explain how the above line is impartial, or indeed not in breach of the BBC guidelines "

    Perhaps you should read the guidelines and the comment and it will be clear?





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  • 64. At 2:03pm on 29 Sep 2008, Gordon wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 65. At 2:03pm on 29 Sep 2008, Xie_Ming wrote:

    Rather than the sorry commentary on repugnant personalities,

    why not examine the psychological bases for fundamentalism and their exploitation by the NeoCons?

    Remember Carl Rove walking the halls of the White House and whistling "Onward, Christian Soldiers"?

    If that unfortunate combination could put Bush in office twice, it can clean out what is left of the American economy.

    The results:

    (1) The NeoCons will abscond to non-extradictable lands.

    (2) The primitives will continue to sink into the abyss of Third World ignorance, lost productivity and superstition.

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  • 66. At 2:05pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Dceilar, Thanks for that.
    Slainte!
    ed

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  • 67. At 2:06pm on 29 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "59. At 1:58pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:
    41. chill0:

    "#31 Candace9839
    Do you think the Obama campaign can say she's an idiot ?

    They will want their man to have won something if he wins."



    Obama seemed very reluctant to go after Palin during his CBS interview yesterday. Obama was asked several times about her. He wouldn't go there. Hmmm...wonder why he won't talk about her inexperience. Could it be that he doesn't relish being compared to her when it comes to experience?"

    Unlikely since his experience of Federal politics dwarfs hers.

    As does his intelligence and education.

    Cannilly he is not going to talk about a VP as he is going for the big office.


    "He should take some lessons from Bill Clinton who has managed to weasle out of every direct question about whether he admires or respects Obama. Clinton just repeats his own policies and says Obama's right for supporting them."

    Hmmm but you seem to have failed to notice the elementary fact that Clinton is not running for election? Obama is.

    And he er beat Mrs Clinton, who also made a lot about her "experience".

    Maybe voters also prize intelligence and ability.

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  • 68. At 2:07pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Chill0, I mis-stated.

    Can anyone explain why the Government/Public/Taxpayers would NOT want some security/equity in exchange for its/their largess?

    Is that clear?
    Salaam, etc.
    ed

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  • 69. At 2:08pm on 29 Sep 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    Ref 58

    Having a spouse around to whisper answers in our leader's ear may help, but is a commercial fisherman the right man for that critical unelected post? I noticed he stands often behind McCain in his rallies, maybe he has a special bait that improve the chances of catching minions. I wish he would share it with me, the only thing I catch is colds!

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  • 70. At 2:12pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    60. Adrian_Evitts:

    "Palin's alleged misfeasance of public office is hardly Watergate!"

    How true. "Troopergate" is a perfect example. No one bothered to check into what the trooper had done. The guy had threatened Sarah Palin's father. Coming from someone carrying a gun with an "in" with the local law enforcement, that threat takes on an entirely different meaning.

    She should definitely have moved to have the guy removed from his job. I supported her entirely on this.

    Not sure how she could have done this without stirring up controversy. The media was very hungry for something, as evidenced by their petty finds.

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  • 71. At 2:13pm on 29 Sep 2008, CIOCHETE wrote:

    The thought of having another republican president used to make me shiver, but now with Palin as VP running made me run to the Obama campain website and do what I never thought I'll ever do, donate money to a politician.
    I hope Biden is going to thrash Palin in the debate.

    What small town values from Alaska? Maybe how to set up a met lab? There are no small town values. There are only values.

    Remember people, foolishness hurts!

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  • 72. At 2:18pm on 29 Sep 2008, goleooo wrote:

    G'morning good people of our planet.

    How are the republicans today? Feeling good I hope. Ready for the "HAIL MARY"???

    2 more days.

    Now, if I was Biden, I would deliver the final punch on Thursday and finish this thing off and spare the people the election drama.

    start praying eh...

    .p.s. i thought McCain and republicans were patriotic...why wasn't mcccain wearing a flag pin?

    anyone heard of JohnAAA? This forum is pretty boring without his ridiculous A$5kissing comments.

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  • 73. At 2:18pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #59 AndreainNY
    This (from 4th Sept) suggests she is too much like Obama in some ways as well, sample:


    The dilemma the campaign has about the sudden emergence of this political superstar comes down to this: it can't possibly ignore her, but going after her directly could easily backfire. If anything, the past week has shown that Palin wears a similar coat of Teflon as Obama. Just as many of Obama's opponents suddenly found themselves accused of playing the race card, many of Palin's supporters have been quick to accuse Dems of outrageous sexism in the frontal assault on Palin's record and family. And responding to each one of her volleys only gives her more prominence in the race than the Obama team would prefer. "I suspect the Obama campaign will let that process unfold without directly engaging Palin," says Thomas Mann, a presidential historian at the Brookings Institution.

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  • 74. At 2:19pm on 29 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "70. At 2:12pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:
    60. Adrian_Evitts:

    "Palin's alleged misfeasance of public office is hardly Watergate!"

    How true. "Troopergate" is a perfect example. No one bothered to check into what the trooper had done. The guy had threatened Sarah Palin's father. Coming from someone carrying a gun with an "in" with the local law enforcement, that threat takes on an entirely different meaning. "

    But that still doesn't give the Governor the right to pursue personal vendettas.

    If this was a real threat - then there is a thing called the law.

    "She should definitely have moved to have the guy removed from his job. I supported her entirely on this."

    Because you know all the facts, having met the individuals concerned and read all the details.

    Not sure how she could have done this without stirring up controversy. The media was very hungry for something, as evidenced by their petty finds. "

    You do not support the rule of law? And this woman is going for VP?

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  • 75. At 2:24pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    69. DominickVila:

    "Ref 58

    Having a spouse around to whisper answers in our leader's ear may help, but is a commercial fisherman the right man for that critical unelected post? "


    As opposed to whom? What would be the "right" type of man?


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  • 76. At 2:26pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Scary stuff

    "This election won't be won or lost at the debates. Nor will it be determined by the two campaigns' "ground games" -- their get-out-the-vote efforts. Nor, unfortunately, will its outcome even depend on how many Americans wake up on Election Day intending to vote for one candidate or the other.

    Instead, my fear is that the Electoral College results will hang on the swing state voting systems' vulnerability to sabotage.

    It's already happening."
    Read on in the full article to see some truly dodgy stuff, and it's only just begun...

    ;-)
    ed

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  • 77. At 2:26pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #68 Ed Iglehart
    I meant shares, specifically shares. They are going to get the securities, presumably mortgae backed securities or securities with mortgages involved somewhere in their provenance.

    Why not just price the securities lower ? The implication is that the banks cannot afford to sell the securities at a lower price.

    That seems hard to believe given that the weakness of these securities can be put at the mortgage default rate but it gets the banks off a hook. They don't have to take the hit.

    And what does the US government do with these shares ?

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  • 78. At 2:28pm on 29 Sep 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    The fate of the US economy and the entire world's with it may be decided today in the House vote. The outcome is far from certain. Many Congressmen on both sides of the aisle are wavering and are afraid of voting the wrong way or being the deciding vote. The problem for many of them is that they can't decide which way is the wrong way. They and their counterparts in the Senate have been all over the US media discussing this. The debate on friday is lightyears away right now and not on anyone's radar screen. The focus is on the economy and the markets. Even if the bill passes, there is not guarantee that the plan will work.

    Chill0

    The Kurds can pipe oil overland through Turkey and the Shia have Basra. It's the Sunnis in the middle who have no oil, no port. But they do have the sympathies of most of the Arab states, were aligned with al Qaeda when Biden announced his plan, and feel they've been cheated out of control over the government even though they are only 15% of the population. They also occupy a lot of homes and land Saddam Hussein stole from the Kurds who want it back. The surrounding Arab states are also very worried about Iran and do not want to see Southern Iraq turned into a colony of the Iranians so they have strong reasons to back the Sunni. Biden's plan was a perfect prescription for a regional war.

    69, I don't post much on this blog site anymore and I no longer get much of my news from BBC either. It is proving to be uninformative and irrelevant to what is important.

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  • 79. At 2:28pm on 29 Sep 2008, vickersone wrote:

    Palin may be the most overhyped and underprepared politician I have ever seen. Incoherent, ignorant and miles out of her depth. She could well be president some day. Is that a thought which fills anyone else with horror?
    Perhaps she will resign "to spend time supporting her family who have been victim of scurrilous and predjudicial reporting", thus aiming to garner sympathy while leaving the way for someone with the ability to run an organisation.

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  • 80. At 2:30pm on 29 Sep 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    55. Ed Iglehart

    Noted. I also sit back and pay only property tax. Though I dabble, I've barely kept above even at this point.

    The only point I was giving on that newsletter is the "idea" is being sold of a 'Black Monday' or "October Crash",.. I get so many of these scam players, though the advice is just that, food for thought.

    Thanks for the 5% link.


    **********VOTE***********

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  • 81. At 2:32pm on 29 Sep 2008, tiptoplisamich wrote:

    #54 ghanimah wrote:
    "...when the woman rational, educated Americans regard with ever-increasing horror"

    I would ask, Justin, who you would vote for in the American election if you could but is there any point as we're left in no doubt who it would be?

    Please explain how the above line is impartial, or indeed not in breach of the BBC guidelines
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/advice/personalweb/blogging_news.shtml



    Still waiting for a "rational, educated" excuse from Justin to explain such an insulting and blatant bias.


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  • 82. At 2:40pm on 29 Sep 2008, exserviceman wrote:

    Simon21 said at 43:

    "So he did not chose her because he thought she was competent and knowledgeable.

    The fact she was a woman was a central factor.

    Sounds pretty contemptible. If a candidate chose someone largely because they were black it would cause uproar."

    Shes competent, she just needs more infomation about foreign affairs.

    Knowledge can be aquired easily in the pause the US system imposes between the November election and the lame duck Administration actually handing over physical control to the incoming government.

    A lot of the challenge is understanding the history of foreign countries. Obama still dosn't get the Ahmadinajad threat despite having absorbed the background info.

    Knowledge can be aquired, guts cannot be learned.

    The fact Palin is a woman with guts is central. If the Iranians attack Israel again they will be in now doubt what will happen if Palin is President, she'll bomb the crap out of them.

    If its Obama they will be tempted to push it to danger level thinking he will be a talker and cease fire man- you can count on an Iranian Nuclear Test within a 2 years if he is elected.

    Obama used his black identity in a subtle way as a central part of his campaign to be Democratic candidate, I don't think thats contemptable just clever. [ok he was helped by Bill Clinton brutally accusing him of being another Jesse Jackson, a far lesser candidate ]

    Otherwise what kind of change is Obama supposed to represent?, a change back to Jimmy Carter's weak foreign policy and LBJ's failed social engineering [1960's: Great Society etc]?

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  • 83. At 2:41pm on 29 Sep 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Doesn't plain ordinary out-and-out corruption matter in any of this? It wasn't the BBC that reported that, it was the Associated Press news agency.

    Or is that sort of thing excusable because it is, in the words of a "professor, of public affairs" so-called, merely "paying attention to close friends and neighbours"?

    I thought that just meant inviting them round for a drink or a barbecue and looking at the holiday snaps or something. Or maybe joining in a moose-shooting party. Perhaps they have a different idea in Alaska. Or small towns in America . . .

    Why am I reminded of that fine upstanding American politician Spiro Agnew? Or that Jordanian the Americans tried to install in Iraq after the invasion when they could have asked almost anyone who had even a slight connection with Jordanians, Lebanese and Iraqis and been told he was, well, questionable, in matters involving money . . .

    Oh dear, oh dear. What a spectacle this is turning out to be.

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  • 84. At 2:43pm on 29 Sep 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    59. AndreainNY

    I believe that Obama is staying away from comments as to not be on Palins level of VP Canidate. Same way McCain rightly doesn't comment on Biden.

    I noticed with pride while watching the Sunday shows with Senators Kerry, Grahm, McCain, Obama and former President Clinton, was how in disagreement they all are sincere, though as people, they honestly respect each other.

    That said, I feel no more secure with this bailout theft of more than money, as there is no honor among thieves, there is collusion..

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  • 85. At 2:43pm on 29 Sep 2008, kburns_ireland wrote:

    To be frank, If you can't handle a television journalist (Katie Couric; that really was must-see-tv) then Joe Biden is way, way more than you can chew.

    The best McCain can hope for is the anti-feminist stuff they've been peddling about Palin since she first appeared; "they're being so meeeeeaaan to her! She's just a little lady from Alaska!"

    If she was a man there wouldn't be a Cactus' chance in Alaska that she would have been picked. McCain wants her to be seen, but not heard.

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  • 86. At 2:44pm on 29 Sep 2008, WillyLawless wrote:

    Justin, can you please explain to your readers here how this blog sits with BBC guidelines? I had thought it necessary that BBC journalists not use their (license-funded) positions to promote ideological bias on a daily basis. It is obvious you have a great hatred for McCain and Palin - but I will request that you confine your views to a blog of your own making, and not one which is paid for by the license payers.

    Thanks mate.

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  • 87. At 2:45pm on 29 Sep 2008, WesternLeviathan wrote:

    How many of you think that Sarah Palin will be a debate no-show for one reason or another? If not, bet that thought has crossed the minds of many, including the Alaskan governor.

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  • 88. At 2:45pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Chill, Are you being intentionally thick?

    "And what does the US government do with these shares ?"
    What does any ordinary investor do? Hold them and hope they can eventually be sold at a profit, meanwhile drawing such dividends or other returns as come.




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  • 89. At 2:50pm on 29 Sep 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Ed's post 48:

    I'm in!

    My modest per diem works out at about 2000 dollars an hour (I think I can just about make ends meet on that, given the current situation, though of course it would be subject to daily review-- i.e. increases--depending on the stock market) which I'm sure will be a lot less than whoever it is they do pick in the end.

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  • 90. At 2:53pm on 29 Sep 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    81. tiptoplisamich
    Very good. Justin is "Obvious" in his political view and definitely an Obama supporter in this blog, but to us that know that, SO WHAT, we like this place, and his views spike very varied and interesting comments.

    Also, in case you haven't noticed, we only follow the lead for forty or so posts and then the random return to topic keeps us interested.

    That said, Kudos to Justin!!

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  • 91. At 2:56pm on 29 Sep 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 92. At 2:57pm on 29 Sep 2008, paul939 wrote:

    #82 exserviceman wrote:

    "If the Iranians attack Israel again they will be in now doubt what will happen if Palin is President, she'll bomb the crap out of them."

    I believe that is highly improbable, all the rhetoric from Mahmoud Ahmedinejad notwithstanding. Israel is more likely to bomb Iran rather than the other way round. Iran would not be so foolish as to attempt that. And Israel actually had a plan to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities, But the U.S refused them permission to fly over Iraq, fearing that they would be seen as working with Israel. And why is anybody who speaks against Israel immediately branded an anti-Semite?

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  • 93. At 2:58pm on 29 Sep 2008, ezekielthemack wrote:

    AndreaInNY,

    I've told you previously that you should stop making inane comparisons between Obama and Palin. Let me break it down for you so that even you can understand: Obama is running for PRESIDENT, Palin is running for VP, therefore any comparisons between the two are completely redundant. That said, if Obama and Palin were to go toe to toe on a debate right now, he would tear her apart to the point of making her look obsurd.

    It is because of mindsets like yours, that America have had the most intellectually inept leader in its history, leading the country for the last eight years. Think about it.

    Now for my comments:

    If we're going to be metaphysical about this, if McCain is on the ropes, Palin is virtually out of the ring. As predicted by myself last week, this thing that we call novelty (regarding Palin), is now beginning to wear off, and the reality of her being an extremely weak candidate is now beginning to exude itself.

    I've no doubt that Biden will conduct himself like the innate gentleman that he is and won't try to brow beat or intimidate Palin with his wealth of experience. If anything, I think he'll just be himself and the electorate will clearly see who the most worthy VP candidate is.

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  • 94. At 2:59pm on 29 Sep 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    78
    69, I don't post much on this blog site anymore and I no longer get much of my news from BBC either. It is proving to be uninformative and irrelevant to what is important.

    --------------------------------

    Small mercy

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  • 95. At 3:01pm on 29 Sep 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    75. At 2:24pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:
    69. DominickVila:

    "Ref 58

    Having a spouse around to whisper answers in our leader's ear may help, but is a commercial fisherman the right man for that critical unelected post? "


    As opposed to whom? What would be the "right" type of man?

    -------------------
    how about one with a brain?
    how about one who has achieved more than "snow mobile champion" maybe just someone who was not a JOCK at school but a student.

    Ninny and majerkin you seem to be racist in your arguments

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  • 96. At 3:03pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #88 Ed Iglehart


    Are you being intentionally thick?

    Unpleasant.

    What does any ordinary investor do? Hold them and hope they can eventually be sold at a profit, meanwhile drawing such dividends or other returns as come.

    Why should the US government be an investor in a bank ?

    Why didn't they take money by giving a lower price for the securities ?

    And who makes the judgment about when to sell the shares ?



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  • 97. At 3:04pm on 29 Sep 2008, FinMember wrote:

    sp I just can't abide that screechy, whinny voice. Can you imagine listening to her for a few years, scary. She seems reasonably intelligent but her performance when under pressure by the media shows her inexperience rather than actual stupidity as portrayed on SNL. However she retreats into hockey mom persona when obviously confused by a serious question. If Joe asks her a few questions on world politicians, geography, her opinion on foreign affairs I would be surprised if she looks any better than she was portrayed on SNL by Fey.

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  • 98. At 3:04pm on 29 Sep 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    oh who will rid us of this turbulent witch.

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  • 99. At 3:13pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Doug,

    "Justin is "Obvious" in his political view and definitely an Obama supporter in this blog,"
    That's why he gave first blood to McDramaQueen, eh?

    ;-) ()
    ed

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  • 100. At 3:13pm on 29 Sep 2008, dceilar wrote:

    Justin

    Ignore all these silly bias comments - you can't win with these people. One day you're comparing Palin to Thatcher, then the next an electoral liability. They don't complain when they agree with your opinion, and shout their heads off when they don't. This is supposed to be a blog isn't it - it's about opinion.

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  • 101. At 3:14pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:



    # 48 ~ Ed

    ! can do that.

    Rosie (formerly known as Angus)

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  • 102. At 3:17pm on 29 Sep 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    Ref 77

    "And what does the US government do with these shares?"

    Like Ed said, they will probably hold the shares until they can sell them at a profit, and collect dividends in the interim.

    Having said that, I share your concern not only because the government may not be able to sell the mortgages and loans (I doubt there are too many eager buyers on the horizon), in their present form, but because the focus seems to be strictly on liquidity rather than restructuring debt.

    In my opinion, the root cause of the problems we are having is our focus on borrowing and spending, which contributed to an unsustainable housing bubble that was bound to implode sooner or later. De-regulation was the instrument that facilitated the pillage that is destroying our banking and financial systems, but it is not the reason for the calamities that are afflicting us.

    I am not an economist, but it seems to me that attempts to solve the problem without restructuring the mortgages and loans to keep them solvent is bound to fail and it is not a sound long term strategy. The bailout should be focused on the American people, rather than insolvent corporations managed by inept or corrupt CEOs.

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  • 103. At 3:18pm on 29 Sep 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:

    markets are headed in the wrong direction. Worry in Europe is even greater than in the US according to CNBC. kburns_Ireland, your stock market is down 11% today if you are in Ireland according to CNBC's reporter. If you want to remain numb, switch to BBC. There's a flight to US Treasuries, Europeans wondering which of their banks will fail next. Guess there's no FDIC there to insure and protect accounts. Strangely the US Dollar is up against the Euro and the Pound. People are looking for safety even in an economy with a new 700 billion dollar liability facing a credit crisis. At least you'll get your money back. There's always the mattress if you dont' have a home safe built into your wall.

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  • 104. At 3:20pm on 29 Sep 2008, british-ish wrote:

    82:

    "If the Iranians attack Israel again . . ."

    They haven't attacked Israel at all. Or any other country, in fact.

    This is the kind of woolly misconception used as an excuse for a "pre-emptive" or even unprovoked attack coming out of America that really rather frightens the rest of the world, you know.

    This is how the whole mess in Iraq began, with too many Americans somehow being convinced Saddaam Hussein was almost Osama bin Laden's brother . . .and responsible for the 9/11 attack.

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  • 105. At 3:21pm on 29 Sep 2008, laughingChavMan wrote:

    Wow, all the negative comments are a sign that the left are very scared of what Mrs Palin has to offer. I hope McCain and Palin win..... just to see the left throw they're usual hissy fits ... it will be quite laughable.

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  • 106. At 3:23pm on 29 Sep 2008, Cheese_Me_Too wrote:

    #33

    Quick point, the BBC is a British institution paid for by British licence payers. Yes, we obviously have an interest in foreign news, hence the fact that the US election gets covered but you would expect American news media to have more in depth coverage of an American story.

    What a bizare comment, do the likes of Fox have 'parades of armies of top flight analysts' to cover British politics? Thought not.

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  • 107. At 3:30pm on 29 Sep 2008, OldSouth wrote:

    Please, Mr. Webb, don't quote a venerable institution of the Left like Atlantic Monthly to express views of the Republican rank-and-file, or even its 'elites'!

    It's the elites of both parties who have created the conundrum in which we find ourselves. All those people with three or more degrees behind their names have driven both the culture and economy off the cliff!

    Is Palin perfect? No.

    Is she smart? Yes, and she's learning more every day.

    Does she have a true feel for life on the ground in the United States?

    Of the entire quartet, she is the only one who is a mother still raising children, trying to guide them toward adulthood in challenging times.

    She's got real 'skin on the table', unlike so many of the 'educated' and 'elite'.

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  • 108. At 3:34pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Chill0,

    The answers to all your questions are in the summary (My linbk to the "full text" document was moderated (probably due to being a pdf)) You can find a link to the full drafdt document Here (halfway down)

    "Why should the US government be an investor in a bank ?"
    Why not? Maybe Sarah has an answer.

    ;-)
    ed


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  • 109. At 3:36pm on 29 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "82. At 2:40pm on 29 Sep 2008, exserviceman wrote:
    Simon21 said at 43:

    "Shes competent, she just needs more infomation about foreign affairs. "

    Yes my point exactly.

    "Knowledge can be aquired easily in the pause the US system imposes between the November election and the lame duck Administration actually handing over physical control to the incoming government. "

    Er foreign affairs is not like ordering a pizza. It is not easy to gain the knowledge of years in a few months in the middle of an election.

    The lack of interest is a key factor.


    " lot of the challenge is understanding the history of foreign countries. Obama still dosn't get the Ahmadinajad threat despite having absorbed the background info. "

    There is no Ahmadinjad threat. The US and Israel are the ones issuing threats.

    In fact under the Bush doctrine the Iranians are perfectly entitled to strike first.

    "Knowledge can be aquired, guts cannot be learned. "

    Sacrificing other people's lives does not require "guts".

    Sitting behind a comfortable desk as others die does not require "guts".

    "The fact Palin is a woman with guts is central. If the Iranians attack Israel again they will be in now doubt what will happen if Palin is President, she'll bomb the crap out of them."

    Since that isn't going to happen it isn't relevant. Pressing a button requires no courage.

    "If its Obama they will be tempted to push it to danger level thinking he will be a talker and cease fire man- you can count on an Iranian Nuclear Test within a 2 years if he is elected."

    So? Do you honestly think you can prevent Iran from getting 70 year old technology - the whole idea is a farce.

    This is where knoweledge comes in.

    "Obama used his black identity in a subtle way as a central part of his campaign to be Democratic candidate, I don't think thats contemptable just clever. [ok he was helped by Bill Clinton brutally accusing him of being another Jesse Jackson, a far lesser candidate ]"

    He is black. But he did not chose Joe Biden because he was nice and white.

    "Otherwise what kind of change is Obama supposed to represent?, a change back to Jimmy Carter's weak foreign policy and LBJ's failed social engineering [1960's: Great Society etc]?"

    Who knows, this is politics. He is an educated intelligent man -good credentials.

    All you say for Palin is that she would be willing to cause a holocaust -is that how you judge a leader, how many woman and children they are prepared to kill?

    You must think Uncle Joe Stalin was a real tough hero.




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  • 110. At 3:40pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Ex (82),

    "If the Iranians attack Israel again"
    Again??? Who has Iran attacked in the last century or more?

    The USA (and her various poodles) has been the most aggressive attacker on the globe for more than half a century. Learn a little perspective.

    Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
    ed

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  • 111. At 3:42pm on 29 Sep 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    I'm giving Michael Moores web site on this again as he says what this is about very well.

    Though I didn't contact Obama, I did contact both my senators and my representative on this matter. What a theft of America George Bush is behind defies intelligence,.. oh,..

    That said, the Americans on this blog need to write thier senators and represenative A.S.A.P.

    The 24% increase alone in this years spending is 'way' to high, our 401ks that are 'saved' will be worthless as the dollars involved.

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  • 112. At 3:43pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:

    I see we have Marcus back with us today. He takes goodness only knows how many words slagging off the BBC without remembering that this is the site of the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation - which is why (thank goodness) we don't get a lot of Newt Gingrich on it.

    And it may be a little bit early for him to start boasting about the dollar. I certainly do not wish ill to his piggybank but does it not occur to him - even just a little bit - that such bombastic arrogance is more than a little out of place today ?

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  • 113. At 3:44pm on 29 Sep 2008, british-ish wrote:

    as everyone knows here, there is little point in attempting to correct some people's misconceptions about Europe. Yes, the european countries do have equivalents tho the FDIC. And savers' deposits are protected in much the same way.

    And hot from the BBC news website (which I myself think is pretty poor, but radio news is better):

    "US shares have fallen sharply amidst trouble on European financial markets and news that Citigroup has taken US bank Wachovia."

    Comfortably numb?

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  • 114. At 3:45pm on 29 Sep 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Is "Wachovia" some kind of (now rather sad) pun?

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  • 115. At 3:45pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Rosie,

    Glad to have some femininity on-board! You'll of course be happy to work for 85% of the male salary level, won't you?

    ;-)
    xx
    ed

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  • 116. At 3:46pm on 29 Sep 2008, cyrilcroydon wrote:

    Since the expectation bar is set so low for Palin, she only needs to avoid making any gaffes to "win" the debate and soothe the fears of independents wanting to vote for McCain.

    Depending on how good her short-term memory is, she should be able to remember her pre-prepared lines. Biden needs to unsettle her and bring up some topics that the GOP strategists may not have anticipated.

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  • 117. At 3:46pm on 29 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    107. At 3:30pm on 29 Sep 2008, OldSouth wrote:
    Please, Mr. Webb, don't quote a venerable institution of the Left like Atlantic Monthly to express views of the Republican rank-and-file, or even its 'elites'!

    It's the elites of both parties who have created the conundrum in which we find ourselves. All those people with three or more degrees behind their names have driven both the culture and economy off the cliff!

    Is Palin perfect? No.

    Is she smart? Yes, and she's learning more every day.

    Does she have a true feel for life on the ground in the United States?

    Of the entire quartet, she is the only one who is a mother still raising children, trying to guide them toward adulthood in challenging times.

    She's got real 'skin on the table', unlike so many of the 'educated' and 'elite'.

    Oh so educated poeple do not have children?

    Odd I am sure Obama has several.

    There is nothing to be proud of in bveing ignorant when you live in a placew where you can get an edication or read books easily.

    The fact she prefers to be thick is her decision - probably too much like hard work.

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  • 118. At 3:48pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Old South,

    "Of the entire quartet, she is the only one who is a mother still raising children, trying to guide them toward adulthood in challenging times.

    She's got real 'skin on the table', unlike so many of the 'educated' and 'elite'."
    I seem to recall a couple of Obama children, though Obama isn't a mother, i reckon he's got "skin on the table", whatever that might mean.

    ;-)
    ed

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  • 119. At 3:58pm on 29 Sep 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Talk about "separated by a common language". What's having "skin on the table" mean? This isn't about that moose again, is it?

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  • 120. At 3:59pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:



    107 - Old South - you missed out the fact that the author of The Atlantic piece not only has three degrees but he's GAY as well.
    How elite can you get ?

    115 - Cutprice Rosie. So what's new. Why do you think I hide behind a name. Remember Chancythegardener ?

    R.

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  • 121. At 4:02pm on 29 Sep 2008, goleooo wrote:

    Doug,
    I am glad that slowly you are beginning to make sense.

    How unfortunate however that we need only lose everything we have worked for to realize the ignorance and the play we have been part of simply for political colors.

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  • 122. At 4:09pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Free-ing Palin letting the pit-bull off the leash!

    ""It's time to let Palin be Palin -- and let it all hang out," said Scott Reed, a Republican strategist.""
    Stand clear!
    ed

    Fancy a bet?

    Putting it all on a rool of the dice.


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  • 123. At 4:09pm on 29 Sep 2008, BALTIMOREHON wrote:

    The elephant in the room seems to be Palin. McCain's campaign rallies would be attended by fewer people were it not for the God, country, and apple pie sizzle she provides. A Palin/McCain ticket? Polls and evidence suggest that Palin's mediocrity is precisely what folks in the US want in their elected leaders. Just like Annie Oakley and Dick Cheney, Palin's name is destined to be synonymous with firearms and entertainment.

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  • 124. At 4:11pm on 29 Sep 2008, DougTexan wrote:

    Ah monday,.. radio in, computer on and mind blank except for beef bologna.

    Bush~Cheney
    Don't ya just hate it when all good things come to an end, but bad things last a real long time.....

    McCain*Palin, Obama-Biden
    For me this election is like having second thoughts about my first tatoo.

    Economic Bailout
    The fact that a bad Idea well executed will out perform a great idea poorly done, and neither senario pertains to Government.

    where do we go from here, now that the childr...

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  • 125. At 4:13pm on 29 Sep 2008, kburns_ireland wrote:

    In defence of Justin's blog; I seem to recall many entries where the author was suspected of being the harbinger of John McCain and the right-wing, just for reporting on Obama's mis-steps?

    These media-conspiracy theorists are truly sad cases. Instead of refuting your candidates detractors with some abstract argument of bias (especially when it is clearly ill-informed) how about doing so with substance?

    Which is unlikely, because Palin dosn't have a backbone one could point to. In this case, criticism and journalistic objectivity go hand in hand.

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  • 126. At 4:14pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:



    Having just taken a flick through the markets and seen what's happening round the world, can I offer a different perspective on Sarah Palin. Maybe we ought to be very grateful to her for giving us some light relief at the moment (as long as it doesn't go too far and she gets elected).

    This election campaign has been going on far too long. There's nothing new to say about McCain, Obama or even dear Joe - so Palin really is keeping us all going.

    Just imagine if they had had a Sarah Palin in 1929. It might never have been called The Great Depression. It might have been America's Great Moose Moment. And at least she brings new meaning to the phrase "Bear Market", not to mention the suspicion that a "snow job" is being done on the truth in all this.

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  • 127. At 4:18pm on 29 Sep 2008, Candace9839 wrote:

    Skin on the table? I have heard of skin in the game as in golf, but there weren't any tables on the greens or fairways that I have played. Moose or polar bear skins perhaps?

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  • 128. At 4:21pm on 29 Sep 2008, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    MagicKirin (#8), gets his facts wrong again! FDR became President in March, 1933. He was nominated by the Democrats in July, 1932, not coincidentally the very month the stock market bottomed out, and elected in November, 1932 (formally, by the electoral college, somewhat later).

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  • 129. At 4:22pm on 29 Sep 2008, Punkin101 wrote:

    I keep asking why I even bother reading all these comments, and the "topic's'" of the day.
    I really believe the campaign is a ruse, and this blogg is just an outlet so people that gets aggravated, can vent.
    Folks, Sarah Palins is being coached by the best money(yours and mine) can buy, so she won't fail.
    This economic ballyho is being conducted with the biggest "mis-direction ever concocted.
    Where is the money coming from, and where is it going?
    Anyone remember the break-up of "Ma Bell?"
    What is being created here? Anyone say monopoly? Government directed that is.
    Makes you just want to say " HMMMM! "

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  • 130. At 4:25pm on 29 Sep 2008, jcjnyc wrote:

    It will be interesting to watch Palin and Biden together. In the "running score" that was displayed during the first debate, it was interesting to note than whenever the candidates attacked each other, or got negative, the Independent voters showed very negative responses. Everyone is tired of the rancor here, which is a typical strategy to divert attention from the issues...which neither presidential candidate would prefer to discuss. Pitbull this, lipstick that...who cares.

    I do not even think experience matters one bit, after all who really is prepared for such a job in advance. If experience mattered, Lincoln would have never been president, since he was arguably the most inexperienced presidential candidate of all time.

    I want to hear clear-cut answers to the driving questions of the day. I want to hear them admit that with this bail-out of the banking industry and Wall Street, there are not going to be any more tax cuts, improved education, healthcare reform, or revitalized infrastructure. Candidates love to promise what they cannot deliver...remember Reagan got elected because he promised a balanced budget.

    I do think the Democrats ignore and ridicule Palin at their own peril. She is not ready now, and I do not agree with her on any political issue, but I think she is the future of the Republican party. Regardless of who wins in November, the smart politicians will be sizing her up, because they will be running against her in the future.

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  • 131. At 4:25pm on 29 Sep 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 132. At 4:27pm on 29 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #110

    Many people consider Hezbollah a surrogate army for Iran and they are guility of terrorism attacks against Israel

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  • 133. At 4:27pm on 29 Sep 2008, findegorgorito wrote:

    ONe thing I don understand is how no one has yet mentioned the fact that Cain's experience is redundant to a great extend. He kept going on about his experience during the cold war, mentioned Ronald Reagan a few times and used the same language and paranoia discourse of the past. Yet no one, including Obama, partly due to deference, cared to remember that the enemy in the XXI century is of a different nature and the world order requires a vision that has to grow beyond past experiences. Thus taking a cold war approach to today's world is like talking Marxism to the Wall Street Tarot readers and conjurers, I mean hedge fund brokers...

    The international institutions need too address the new issues of the new world, the G7 represents seven countries involved in a couple of wars during the XXth century not the richest, most powerful. The IMF, the WTO, the WB and last but foremost the UN should be re-estructured!!! in a way that we can guarantee a sort of multilateral dependence and support in order to avoid future wars. Just as the EU has managed to achieved!!

    Meine Meinung!

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  • 134. At 4:29pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    A picture is worth a thousand words...

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  • 135. At 4:32pm on 29 Sep 2008, lawchicago wrote:

    I think McCain should have just conducted a game show with the winner winng the nomination as the vice presidental nominee
    or
    Could have been like reality TV's" America's got talent .
    Palen could have been in the spokesperson /presenter competition

    just when I think we have sunk as low as we possibly can -we with our inginuity still have the potential to shock the world with our stupidity

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  • 136. At 4:33pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #110 Ed Iglehart
    I think that would be the Soviet Union actually.

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  • 137. At 4:41pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:


    The Scott Reed referred to as a Republican strategist in # 122, also plays a significant role in NYT piece on McCain's ties to gambling. Except that in the NYT piece he is referred to as a Republican lobbyist (for gambling industry clients) and received quite a lot of dollars for his pains.

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  • 138. At 4:43pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Baltimore Hon, (I was born there!)

    "The elephant in the room seems to be Palin."
    But Biden thinks she's a Leviathon

    ;-)
    ed

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  • 139. At 4:47pm on 29 Sep 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    105. At 3:21pm on 29 Sep 2008, laughingChavMan wrote:
    Wow, all the negative comments are a sign that the left are very scared of what Mrs Palin has to offer. I hope McCain and Palin win..... just to see the left throw they're usual hissy fits ... it will be quite laughable.
    --------------------------------------------------

    What about the right , have they not been having "hissy fits"


    we fear her winning because it would mean we are living in a country that is brain dead and unwilling to learn.
    bit like you.

    Laughable is your president and the fact that we are related.

    America sucks

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  • 140. At 4:47pm on 29 Sep 2008, duhbuh wrote:

    Does the html strike code work here?

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  • 141. At 4:47pm on 29 Sep 2008, U12831485 wrote:

    82. , exserviceman wrote:

    "Shes competent, she just needs more infomation about foreign affairs. "

    I beg to differ ; one would expect a VP candidate to at least have basic knowledge of those matters, and have coherent arguments ready for an interview .

    Palin has either not done her homework, or didn't grasp the briefings she undoubtedly has been given.

    Again, talking BASIC knowledge here, and BASIC intellectual and communicating skills.

    _______
    ________

    "Obama still dosn't get the Ahmadinejad threat despite having absorbed the background info.

    Knowledge can be aquired, guts cannot be learned.

    If the Iranians attack Israel again they will be in now doubt what will happen if Palin is President, she'll bomb the crap out of them. "

    ______________________

    With all due respect, that is beyond ignorant.

    Obama might have failed to qote Ahmadinejad's more silly outbursts, hence he 'doesn't understand', no doubt .

    But in my book, repeatedly doing so makes McCain and Palin look like simplistic schmucks and dangerous fear mongers.
    Not experts. And just like GWB.

    Palin seemed gutsy at the GOP convention, after that, she seemed rather insecure to me, when there was no safe crowd cheering her.

    Tough speak doesn't equal guts.

    Bombing Iran, eh ? How more bizarre can it get , what's next ?
    Oh, attacking Russia, I forgot, now there's a good idea !
    Let's get Georgia into the Nato, haven't had a World War in ages, it's about bloody time.
    Diplomacy ? Ah, that's for wussies !

    What ever happened to common sense ?

    FYI, Iran has never attacked Israel (directly), how can they do it 'again' ?
    Besides, basing foreign policies on a Beach Boys tune, I don't know...
    A good rhyme's as good a reason as WMDs, though, I assume.

    Of course, Mr. Obama doesn't understand, he's too young.

    Just wondering, would Ahmadinejad have been elected in 2005 if there hadn't been the Iraq war ?
    To my knowledge that little adventure didn't exactly help the moderate forces in Iran - or anywhere else.

    Of course, Mr. Obama doesn't understand that either, didn't have time to collect enough of the 'been-there' badges.

    One thing Mr. Obama might understand, while there might be simple solutions for simple problems - that terrorism isn't simple.

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  • 142. At 4:50pm on 29 Sep 2008, Clive Hill wrote:

    #108 Ed Iglehart
    You're right. I'm thick.

    I still don't get it. Why does the US government want warrants to buy banks' shares ?

    They might get a controlling interest. That means the bank would not be nationalised but would have a controlling government stake.

    Would they put government people on the board ? In whose interest would they feel obliged to act, the taxpayer or rhe shareholder ?

    That has shareholder lawsuit written all over it.

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  • 143. At 4:51pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Chill0, (136),

    A distant second place for the USSR. Just like in the armaments trade, the USA leads the world in aggression.

    Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
    ed

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  • 144. At 4:53pm on 29 Sep 2008, neil_a2 wrote:

    Re #12 Magic

    "It seems Palin has problems with the truth."

    Perhaps she should be more presidential and perjure herself.

    "You can not prove he understood the question." (WJC 1998)

    At least she does not mince the definition of the word, "is".

    ----

    Ah yes, selective outrage. "Pardon" me.

    ----

    Is Palin running for President? Is Obama running for VP? Is Obama qualified for either post?

    Palin has as much foreign experience as your beloved Bill Clinton when he ran for President.

    Maybe I am wrong. She did not have to leave the country to avoid the draft.

    I bet Palin inhaled.

    ----

    Is Obama blessed? Or is he just a turtle on a fence post?

    ("Turtle on a fence post", up high, not sure how he got there, and can not go anywhere.)

    ----

    Biden's only claim to fame is talking so long the other gives up and goes home. Perhaps if he said something of merit, they would find reason to stay.

    Forecast: Biden will back out of the campaign after the debate, and Obama will bring in Hillary.

    (Of course Roselawn Law Firm, WhiteWater, Travel Gate, Bosnian Snipers, short-selling HMO's, ... will never be remembered on this blog.)

    ---

    McCain broached health care by identifying individual states handle it at the state level. He is looking at strategies, attempts, effectiveness, cost, and merit for a national approach. He is formulating options for solutions. He is looking at plans that do not work to understand why and to avoid the same mistakes.

    ----

    I was once an Obama supporter.

    Where is Obama's strategy? He does speak well, but there is no detail.

    Stating a need and making promised sound very nice, but have no substance.

    If Obama was such a salvation, why has he never introduced legislation for consideration? Why has be not been to work in two (2) years?

    Probably because he is sitting on a post.

    It is not on his web site.

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  • 145. At 4:54pm on 29 Sep 2008, Xie_Ming wrote:

    # 121

    Grasps the fact.

    The people have been and are being taken for a great ride by their rulers.

    The NeoCon legalists and the deluded fundamentalists whom they manipulate are only the most obvious.

    Walk about Capitol Hill with a lantern in the daylight to find an honest man.

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  • 146. At 5:05pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Chill0,

    "Would they put government people on the board ? In whose interest would they feel obliged to act, the taxpayer or rhe shareholder ?"
    One and the same thing, I reckon.

    Slainte
    ed

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  • 147. At 5:13pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Just a thought - I notice that, having more or less travelled in lock-step for the past couple of years, Oil and Gold have had a parting of the ways with oil hovering in a "trading range" around 30% off its highs, and gold climbing to within 10% of its high.

    To me this suggests an expectation of slow or negative growth (in economic activity) coupled with inflation i.e. "stagflation".... Anyone got any contrasting or illuminating suggestions?

    We do seem to be in a deja vu situation (circa 1929). Or perhaps worse, Weimar (Buy wheelbarrows)

    Wheeeeeeeee! ;-)

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  • 148. At 5:14pm on 29 Sep 2008, rowrrbazzle wrote:

    "the woman rational, educated Americans
    regard with ever-increasing horror"

    And the left has the temerity to say the right is fear-mongering.

    Wendy Doniger, a U. of Chicago professor and blogger on the Newsweek site, wrote "Her greatest hypocrisy is in her pretense that she is a woman."

    George Orwell wrote "Notes on Nationalism" in May 1945. His description of "negative nationalism" is as true today as it was back then. For instance: "I have heard it confidently stated, for instance, that the American troops had been brought to Europe not to fight the Germans but to crush an English revolution. One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool."

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  • 149. At 5:19pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:



    Niel # 144

    What was the point of all that if not to be just grumpy.

    As for your prediction that Joe Biden will bow out after the debate and Obama will bring in Hillary Clinton, Bill has been doing everything in his power to knock that one on the head (and yes, we do remember Bill on this site, only too well I'm afraid).

    Sorry you don't think that Obama has been to work for 2 years. I thought he'd been quite busy actually - or is his current position just the result of faffing about ?

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  • 150. At 5:26pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Meanwhile.....

    Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

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  • 151. At 5:32pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:



    Oil versus gold.

    I agree with the stagflation argument - this crisis is truly global and although the epicentre of the earthquake was in the US, the after shocks will be felt worldwide - which means a reduction in oil use, reduction in productivity etc...

    To go back to an earlier point, I don't think that this is the moment to elect an administration of gamblers. Then we might really see expect to see Weimar revisited.

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  • 152. At 5:38pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Top of the Pops

    Palin's excuse list

    "10. Suspicious Russian tourists spotted across the Bering strait in Dezhnevo

    9. Wrasslin' a bear

    8. Learns Tina Fey will be watching

    7. When taken on tour of White House by McCain handlers, is "inadvertently" locked in Cheney's man-sized safe

    6. Schedule for memorizing state capitals thrown off by need for new schedule to memorize states

    5. Speechless after finally looking up what "MILF" stands for

    4. On deadline to finish her book, Namin' Your Baby the Alaskan Way

    3. Needs more time to really nail those hilarious hair-plug zingers

    2. No matter how hard she scrubs, she can't get Kissinger's moral stank off of her

    1. Stuck in traffic on the Bridge to Nowhere"


    ;-0
    ed

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  • 153. At 5:39pm on 29 Sep 2008, DavidD wrote:

    I can see the Republican representatives weighing up the value of the loss of future earnings if they don't get re-elected for voting for the bill against the cost to their existing fortunes if they don't. Or am I being too cynical?

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  • 154. At 5:44pm on 29 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #128

    Fine he got elected in 1932

    That is a lot better than Biden's remark.

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  • 155. At 5:47pm on 29 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #78

    10 posts in 2 days not very much?

    The lady doth etc.

    Thespian Sam

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  • 156. At 5:48pm on 29 Sep 2008, U12831485 wrote:

    107, OldSouth wrote:

    "Does she have a true feel for life on the ground in the United States?

    Of the entire quartet, she is the only one who is a mother still raising children, trying to guide them toward adulthood in challenging times.

    She's got real 'skin on the table', unlike so many of the 'educated' and 'elite'."

    ________

    Count on simple views for entertainment !

    Apart from being a mother qualifying one for exactly nothing in politics, Palin is in quite a privileged position, don't you think ?
    Rich, govenor, just like regular folk ?

    Probaly also smart enough to avoid idiotic loans and maxing out a dozen credit cards.

    There seems to be one common ground - ignorance is bliss, a virtue even.

    Palin stands for that, no doubt.

    Now that'll help to fix the US economy, never mind foreign relations.
    Stop thinking the two are not related; it might very well be more important to succeed in the latter, to regain control of the former.

    And of course she's learning, don't we all ? Doesn't a three yr old, a dog even ?
    To what extent, and how efficiently, that's the question.
    It's were education comes into play, intellectual potential .

    Intelligence, being 'smart', that's the basics. But is one capable to put those characteristics to good use ?
    It's about education, baby.

    Intellectualism didn't run the US economy into ground, the combination with greed and lack of regulations did.
    Not to forget, the combination of ignorance and greed of the regular folk.
    Noone put a gun to people's heads to make them accept loans that were to be renegotiated after just a few years.

    Palin won a scholarship by getting on stage in a bathing suit, shaking her behind and forcing a smile (no really, it's on youtube).
    Which is basically the same she's doing now.




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  • 157. At 5:49pm on 29 Sep 2008, nwcanadian wrote:

    The moderators of all the U.S. Presidential (and one VP) debates are liberals. They skew the questions to favour the Democratic candidates. In spite of the electorate's 50/50 split by political party, the majority of voting Americans still leans conservative which is why I don't believe that an Obama landslide is in the works. It's going to be very, very close--just like in the most recent 2, 3 elections. The much too long, drawn-out campaigns don't seem to have much effect on voter loyalties.

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  • 158. At 5:50pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Great minds think alike?

    Only an hour or so ago, I suggested Joe Biden should hold back, and now similar advice is coming from a much more credible source ;-)

    "oe Biden doesn't need to do much in this debate. Everyone, Republicans included, know the guy knows policy detail and foreign relations cold. He really doesn't need to do much to prove he has mastery.

    Normally, "time of possession" is a key signifier in football of which team is likeliest to win the game, but in this case the opposite seems true. Think of it -- all anyone cares about in this debate is what Sarah Palin says."
    Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, Joe. Play it cool and let her dig her own grave. It ain't permafrost, so it'll be easy.

    Slainte
    ed

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  • 159. At 5:53pm on 29 Sep 2008, jacksforge wrote:

    149. At 5:19pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:


    Niel # 144

    What was the point of all that if not to be just grumpy.

    As for your prediction that Joe Biden will bow out after the debate and Obama will bring in Hillary Clinton, Bill has been doing everything in his power to knock that one on the head (and yes, we do remember Bill on this site, only too well I'm afraid).

    Sorry you don't think that Obama has been to work for 2 years. I thought he'd been quite busy actually - or is his current position just the result of faffing about ?

    ----------------------------------
    Ah but he's half black which doesn't count for work in some peoples eyes not to mention the R word again.

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  • 160. At 5:54pm on 29 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #82

    'Knowledge can be aquired, guts cannot be learned'

    Exserviceman,

    While knowledge can be acquired, the wisdom and tools to apply it require years of training. As for guts not being learned, that's what Marine Corps and Infantry training is all about.

    As an aside, 'guts' are overrated. Apparently President Bush has them, which has caused him to make some of the most spineless and disasterous decisions in history in the name of looking tough and having 'guts'.

    Given the choice between the confused, the ignorant and the untrained who want to look tough, and the thoughtful analyst who seeks the right solution? That's a no brainer.

    Captain Sam

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  • 161. At 5:57pm on 29 Sep 2008, U12831485 wrote:

    # 152 ed:

    "5. Speechless after finally looking up what "MILF" stands for. "
    ______

    There, someone said it !!!
    I didn't dare....

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  • 162. At 6:03pm on 29 Sep 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    The gamblers are giving Virginia, Ohio, Florida and Nevada to Obama, but not North Carolina. As of today: Obama 59, McCain 40

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  • 163. At 6:07pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    It was'nae me, Gov, honest! I eas just quotin'
    ;-)
    ed

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  • 164. At 6:09pm on 29 Sep 2008, duhbuh wrote:

    This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain

  • 165. At 6:10pm on 29 Sep 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    There is nothing to say about Palin that has not been said before. She has less than two years experience, is poorly educated, is tremendously ignorant and lies constantly.

    There is more to say about McCain than Palin. He chose her solely to boost his chances. He knew how inadequate she was. If he does not care about the fate of our country, how can he be a good president?

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  • 166. At 6:14pm on 29 Sep 2008, frayedcat wrote:

    Thank you Justin, you see when the BBC rears its ugly head...from Scranton to San Fransisco...its got to do with jobs creation and I won't second guess israel so the economy is based on that..when he's a maverick, and Im a maverick so thanks but no thanks to that debate.. And please ask the pitbull rescue society to stop sending me invitations.. and no, PETA, they are NOT testing the lipstick on me.

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  • 167. At 6:16pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Mom & Dad to the rescue!

    Bless!
    ed

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  • 168. At 6:18pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Ms Marbles,

    "The gamblers are giving Virginia, Ohio, Florida and Nevada to Obama, but not North Carolina. As of today: Obama 59, McCain 40"
    I wonder if McGambler has any bets placed....;-)

    I would in his place.
    ed

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  • 169. At 6:19pm on 29 Sep 2008, BigMediaControl wrote:

    '...The woman rational, educated Americans regard with ever-increasing horror....'

    Justin Webb, you are only suceeding in spreading biggotry. You're giving people a very biased, regional, and elitist view of America. You are doing your readers a disservice.

    I happen not to be a Buch or Palin supporter. I'm a paleo-conservative who can't vote either candidates on principle. But I would classify your attacks (not only here but in some of your other materials I have unfortunately wasted my time reading) on traditional America as unjustified and biggoted. You come across as out-of-touch to anyone from rural America or traditional America. And you spread stereotypes which are not helpful or enlightening at all.

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  • 170. At 6:20pm on 29 Sep 2008, frayedcat wrote:

    Earth to bloggers who think "liberals" are skewing public opinion against McCain/Palin....EVERYONE thinks that Palin is daft and that McCain is very, very old.
    NO BLINKIE NO THINKIE

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  • 171. At 6:23pm on 29 Sep 2008, wanderingangus wrote:


    I have just read a report saying that seniors are now quite prepared to come out to canvassers and say that they cannot support Obama because of the colour of his skin. Yes, his skin. The pigmentation of his skin.

    Obama is the man who identified that laisser faire politics had gone too far and had descended into cowboy capitalism. And the resultant financial meltdown will impact most of all on "seniors".

    Obama is the only person who can lead the markets out of this mess. He is decent, disciplined, courageous and has an organised team to work with him. But they won't support him because of the colour of his skin.

    Someone please tell me that this isn't true.

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  • 172. At 6:28pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Raising Sarah Palin

    ;-)
    ed

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  • 173. At 6:29pm on 29 Sep 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    I shall feel sorry for Tina Fey if Palin gets
    "thrown under the bus." What will she do
    for a living? At the very least, she'll have
    to change her make-up, and no woman
    wants to have to do that!

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  • 174. At 6:32pm on 29 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    "132. At 4:27pm on 29 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
    ref #110

    Many people consider Hezbollah a surrogate army for Iran and they are guility of terrorism attacks against Israel"

    And many people beleive that "jews run the world" and that god made the earth in seven days.

    However fantasy is not fact. Not even for Israel.

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  • 175. At 6:33pm on 29 Sep 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    Ms. Marbles, when you said:

    "There is nothing to say about Palin that has not been said before. She has less than two years experience, is poorly educated, is tremendously ignorant and lies constantly."

    you more or less described the entire US congress,
    except for the "two years experience" part.

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  • 176. At 6:35pm on 29 Sep 2008, duhbuh wrote:

    # 164. At 6:09pm on 29 Sep 2008, duhbuh
    This comment has been referred to the moderators.

    You have got to be kidding - even that one? Pathetic. Poor Justin can dish it out but can't take it, eh?

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  • 177. At 6:37pm on 29 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:

    144. At 4:53pm on 29 Sep 2008, neil_a2 wrote:


    Is Palin running for President? Is Obama running for VP? Is Obama qualified for either post?

    Yes

    "Palin has as much foreign experience as your beloved Bill Clinton when he ran for President."

    Really. When did she take up her Rhodes scholarship?



    "Maybe I am wrong. She did not have to leave the country to avoid the draft."

    So you contradict yourself.



    "Biden's only claim to fame is talking so long the other gives up and goes home. Perhaps if he said something of merit, they would find reason to stay.

    Forecast: Biden will back out of the campaign after the debate, and Obama will bring in Hillary."

    Yes and pigs will sprout wings

    --

    "McCain broached health care by identifying individual states handle it at the state level. He is looking at strategies, attempts, effectiveness, cost, and merit for a national approach. He is formulating options for solutions. He is looking at plans that do not work to understand why and to avoid the same mistakes."

    He just can't articulate it.

    He is working on a time machine too.


    "I was once an Obama supporter.

    Where is Obama's strategy? He does speak well, but there is no detail.

    Stating a need and making promised sound very nice, but have no substance."

    Well he is not in power is he - and the substance from McCain -er none.

    "If Obama was such a salvation, why has he never introduced legislation for consideration? Why has be not been to work in two (2) years?"

    Sorry how do you know this?
    Do try to learn something before psoting

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  • 178. At 6:38pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Palin replaced

    "With less than a week to go before the crucial vice-presidential debate, GOP presidential nominee John McCain announced today that he was replacing his running mate, Alaska governor Sarah Palin, with a startled deer.

    According to campaign insiders, the decision to select a hoofed mammal to replace Gov. Palin evolved after Sen. McCain watched his running mate's performance in a series of interviews with CBS's Katie Couric.

    "Good Lord, a startled deer could do better than that," Sen. McCain reportedly said, prompting his aides to draw up a shortlist of startled deer."
    ;-0
    ed

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  • 179. At 6:40pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    67. Simon21:

    "Maybe voters also prize intelligence and ability."

    Yes, they do. Yet, despite the best efforts here to talk away the importance of it, they also value experience.





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  • 180. At 6:45pm on 29 Sep 2008, nwcanadian wrote:

    #171, please don't believe everything you read. Obama supporters are spreading this type of commentary around to frame a (potential) loss as race-driven. Ask yourself this, if the U.S. is really that racist, would Obama be leading in the polls? He wouldn't be there without "white" support.

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  • 181. At 6:49pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    49. Young-Mr-Grace:

    "However one would expect the campaign to reflect the character of the candidate. If so then can we conclude that McCain is a tactical thinker while Obama is more confortable with strategy? I would suggest that the role of President is one which requires strategy more than tactics."



    Yes, and watching Obama's typical approach to the bailout negotiations, he seemed to have just stopped short of saying that he'll veto it if doesn't contain his 4 principles.

    One would never guess he is, in fact, a Senator who is responsible for voting on it. In fact, one would never guess listening to him that he is in any way connected to the Senate and House. But perhaps that's his intention, since it's so unpopular a bill.



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  • 182. At 6:51pm on 29 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    #132

    Them would be the crazy people?

    Psychiatrist Sam

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  • 183. At 6:57pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    82. exserviceman:

    "Knowledge can be aquired, guts cannot be learned. "


    Either you value this or you don't. Just like service to one's country.

    Of course, if Obama had these characteristics, they might be more important.

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  • 184. At 6:57pm on 29 Sep 2008, plymouth51 wrote:

    Mr Webb.With this piece of crap....'when the woman rational, educated Americans regard with ever-increasing horror steps into the ring with Joe Biden'....you are in breach of your own editorial guidelines.What gets me is that you don't even try to hide your leftwing biased views nowadays.Disgusting.

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  • 185. At 7:02pm on 29 Sep 2008, Peter wrote:

    >1. She's a conservative Christian on social issues - just enough to prevent dissillusioned "Huckabee" evangelicals from running a independent candidate in the South, or staying at home in November.

    >Just remember how Huckabee stuck to fighting John Maccain for the Nomination right until the last moment, not until Mccain gained Texas did the minister back out. That is a clear warning.

    Then maybe McCain should have picked Huckabee, who comes across as witty and likeable and can clearly handle himself in US national politics, holding his own with Jon Stewart on the Daily Show, and now with his tee-vee show for Fox. He would have done just as good a job at energising the GoP base as Palin, and could have been allowed out on his own on TV to act as McCain's surrogate.

    I'm glad he didn't for those reasons.

    Let 'Palin Be Palin' might be her best bet for the debate. It can't be any worse than 'Let Palin Parrot McCain's Talking Points'. You youtube footage of her debating performance in Alaska shows her to be quite capable on her own ground, fielding questions about abortion.

    It's a bit of a gamble, so presumably McCain will go for it.

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  • 186. At 7:08pm on 29 Sep 2008, john-In-Dublin wrote:

    152 Ed Iglehart

    "Palin's excuse list

    9. Wrasslin' a bear"

    Raised in the woods
    So she knew every tree
    She killed her a bear
    When she was only three
    Sarah, Sarah Palin
    Queen of the Wild Frontier....

    ;-)

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  • 187. At 7:08pm on 29 Sep 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    plymouth51, you're right. Some of us have
    not progressed to the level of pure horror yet.

    As for myself, I am merely in a stage of extreme
    apprehension about her.

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  • 188. At 7:10pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    133. findegorgorito:

    "ONe thing I don understand is how no one has yet mentioned the fact that Cain's experience is redundant to a great extend."


    Congratulations. This might be the best attempt at rationalizing why experience doesn't matter.

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  • 189. At 7:20pm on 29 Sep 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    #86. WillyLawless: "I had thought it necessary that BBC journalists not use their (license-funded) positions to promote ideological bias . . . request that you confine your views to a blog of your own making, and not one which is paid for by the license payers."

    Are you really British and not masquerading as such? Americans write license' whereas Brits write licence. I'm not usually of a suspicious mind, but . . .

    In any case, the BBC is not solely funded by UK licence-holders - there's a substantial income from commercial enterprises and sales of television productions abroad. From time-to-time, Justin has been criticised for supporting all sides when I consider he does a fair enough job of balancing both. Remember, he can't vote - and supposedly, neither can you.

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  • 190. At 7:22pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    The internet provides endless entertainment.

    Here's a collection of C-SPAN soundbites of reactions to the regulation of Freddie and Fannie.

    Democrats in Their Own Words

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  • 191. At 7:32pm on 29 Sep 2008, DavidD wrote:

    184. At 6:57pm on 29 Sep 2008, plymouth51 wrote:
    What gets me is that you don't even try to hide your leftwing biased views nowadays.Disgusting.

    What a curious and bizarre statement, when "left wing" is used as an accusation.
    I am an ex patriot Brit living in South Africa and was on the receiving end of the same accusations from fellow whites for being against apartheid. It was an insult used to denigrate anyone who stood against apartheid, regardless of their reasons or political stance economically. As such, it is the last resort of the intellectually disabled.

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  • 192. At 7:34pm on 29 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    73. chill0:

    "#59 AndreainNY
    This (from 4th Sept) suggests she is too much like Obama in some ways as well, sample"


    I think he has actually met his match.



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  • 193. At 7:35pm on 29 Sep 2008, NoRashDecisions wrote:

    Ed Iglehart, could you please explain to me how to link to other web cites in these posts as well? I saw that one poster on here noted that you explained it to them (I forget their screen name right now), and I was wondering if you could do the same for me.

    Thank you.

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  • 194. At 7:40pm on 29 Sep 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #190, AndreainNY, to add fuel to the fire,
    here is Greenspan warning about financial irregularities
    at Fannie and Freddie.

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  • 195. At 7:41pm on 29 Sep 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    #156. Fritz_Kraut: "Count on simple views for entertainment!"

    But, like Sophisticated Sam, you fail to see the attraction of that to a large segment of American society. Her appeal is because she has succeeded and has obvious failings. That she's wrong on almost every count is immaterial, it's her visceral appeal to what years back was called The Silent Majority. They may not be as well educated or informed in the ways of the world as many of those on this blog, but they all have a vote. If it were not so, the race would be further apart than it is - a very few percentage points separates the two sides. In horse racing, the winner can come up from the outside and overtake the lead to win. Don't underestimate the Republican strategy; Mrs Palin is an extremely attractive filly.

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  • 196. At 7:59pm on 29 Sep 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    132, Magic ubermensch.

    You know how it is. You just can't trust the untermenschen.

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  • 197. At 8:11pm on 29 Sep 2008, watermanaquarius wrote:

    BALTIMOREHON #123 and lawchicago # 135 and others.
    Thank you.
    There was something in the back of my mind that struck me when I first read about Palin:- Alaska, guns, meese[s], polar bears
    kids, graft, authority, etc etc not forgetting that homespun apple pie image: about what this candidate should do when she left or is asked to leave politics, which will be sooner rather than later. Your words reminded me--- -Entertainment.

    Obviously as Americans you are unaware of the BBC kids program -
    BLUE PETER
    Please read the link- its an eyeopener!

    " Many items from Blue Peter's history have passed into television legend, especially moments when things have gone wrong, such as the much-repeated clip of Lulu the elephant (from a 1969 edition)[4] who defecated on the studio floor, trod on presenter John Noakes' foot and then proceeded to attempt an exit, dragging her keeper along the ground behind her. Other well-remembered and much-repeated items include the Girl Guides' campfire that got out of hand on the 1970 Christmas edition, John Noakes' report on the cleaning of Nelson's Column,[5] and Simon Groom referring to a previous item on door-knockers with the words 'What a beautiful pair of knockers".

    Still going strong after 50 years it is a combination of fun, games, cooking, pets and minor celebrities, building models etc using lots of "sticky back plastic", old washing up bottles and lollypop sticks.
    Sounds stupid but the program thought up world wide expressions like " and now
    for something completly different" as used by the Monty Python team.
    Obviously her presence as an ex beauty queen as used in the original BP format does not count for much in kids TV these days but I think it will be a pre for adult middle redneck American coast to coast daytime viewing.
    Home construction tips from Bridge to nowhere experience, Religion, badges
    bringing up kids, cooking- moose cake, moose pie, moose stew, " moose en brochette, or "Alaskan Meese Impalined" as she probably names it at home and of course what to do with the left over antlers and polar bear skins and claws.
    "Here's one I made earlier"!
    Fishing stories, minor political discussions, gardening, charity work and collections and minor legal advice about everything, not forgetting support your local sheriff campaigns etc.
    I believe you Americans work much harder than we Europeans, but even so in your senior years there is more call for good daytime television where everything is now geared to the late shows- Leno, Stewart etc etc. There are many to many smart @ss funny and serious morons on TV and the media is crying out for somebody different, and so a homespun working Mom fits the bill.
    Suggest it to the networks and get in on the ground floor.
    You could make millions if you approach the right people, and Oprah might end up on social security.

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  • 198. At 8:13pm on 29 Sep 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #195, David_C, Palin has obvious failings, but
    I can see why she would have popular appeal.

    As for Obama, I can't speak for the electorate
    as whole, but I can explain why I don't trust the
    guy.

    To be brief: he is popular but he has no friends.
    Everyone in his life except for his immediate
    relatives has been "thrown under the bus"
    for the sake of his campaign. OJ Simpson would
    have more friends, except that they are all dead.

    Much is made about how "American" his story is,
    but there is something distinctly "foreign" about
    him to Americans, as if he came from another
    planet. He reinvents himself too easily.

    I don't see his family roots, as I would a Colin Powell.
    His background is murky to me. I know more
    about Justin Webb from the brief description that
    he posted, than I do about this man running
    for President.

    And, I still predict that some Great Flaw will
    emerge shortly before the election which will
    show us who he really is.

    If it were not for the factors that I mentioned
    above, I would vote for the man. I just don't
    know who he is.

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  • 199. At 8:22pm on 29 Sep 2008, MKnoll wrote:

    I'm predicting a circus.
    Biden will be so geared up to attack Palins credibility that he will make gaffs of his own and come across as an angry, ill informed oaf.

    Both VP candidates are woefully bad choices.

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  • 200. At 8:31pm on 29 Sep 2008, LURKINGBLACKHAT wrote:

    DB is quite right when he says

    "I can’t believe Justin Webb is serious when he cites Andrew Sullivan as a source for Republican views about Sarah Palin. Sullivan couldn’t be more in the tank for Obama if he tried, and he’s one of the few people with an even more extreme case of Palin Derangement Syndrome than Justin Webb. I get the impression from Sullivan’s recent demented rantings that he writes his blog onto the padded walls of a secure cell with a chunky crayon wedged between his toes, and then some poor intern at the Atlantic Monthly has to transcribe it for the Watergate all over again. Only a very biased journalist could claim that these trivialities are important; they’re certainly not in the same league as Rezko, Ayers, ACORN, Obama’s $1m earmark for his wife’s hospital following her huge salary increase, internet. The "If Palin were a male candidate" article doesn’t work because there’s a male candidate with no executive experience who has far more extensive and dubious past links and has received a free pass from the MSM - Barack Obama. Likewise AP’s earth-shattering revelations about Palin’s failure to remove a potential fire hazard from her home, and receiving a free ‘awesome facial’ and some ‘absolutely gorgeous flowers’ as gifts - wow, it’s or a host of other dodgy deals and associations brushed under the carpet by the media. The BBC likes to claim its journalists are objective, impartial observers, but Webb once again proves this is nonsense."

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  • 201. At 8:53pm on 29 Sep 2008, mdalerwill wrote:

    It makes no sense to me to suggest that to have "skin" at stake in this election you must represent the far right, as Sarah Palin does.

    I have plenty at stake, and I do NOT identify with Sarah Palin. First of all, I'm not impressed in the slightest with the demonizing of education. My education did not make me elitist. It helped me climb out of generations of poverty and into the middle class (for now anyway - that's one of the things I have at stake). It made me think about the place I hold in my family, gender, community, country and world. However, my education also made it harder to BS me with jingoism, which seems to be the order of the day.

    I also don't consider it "gutsy" to bomb anyone who back-talks the USA or threatens our place as the most powerful nation in the world. I don't relate to playing on the disgraceful ignorance most Americans have of other countries to make us fall in line out of anger and fear of the "Other".

    While Gov. Palin is being briefed on foreign affairs, perhaps someone should also explain mutually assured destruction.

    And before someone suggests I'm nothing but an elitist lefty city-slicker, I'm a moderate Repubican from the impoverish rural Central Valley of California (a conservative bastion in a liberal state). I don't want to vote for Obama, but I don't like the fear-mongering coming from the other side of the ticket.

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  • 202. At 8:54pm on 29 Sep 2008, NoRashDecisions wrote:

    "I think it is perfectly possible that Palin will "win" - some good pre-prepared stunts should do the trick - but at a cost: further alienation of the college-educated centre ground. Palin fever still exists at the grassroots but it has disappeared among the Republican elite and been replaced by plain old sweats."

    I have 2 points I would like to make after reading such offencive material.

    1. non-college-educated people don't like Palin as well, you just haven't met any yet!! You don't need a college digree in order to not think that a contender for one of your nation's highest offices doesn't deserve to be contending for that office!! And this is simply done via judgeing (with one's tiny brain mass, most likely Atention Deffosot Disorder, eyes and ears) that that contender is a ditz and an airhead, who doesn't clearly have the knoeledge (not experience!), but "knoledge" to lead based on interviews given and speeches made!! Its a fact of life! All people should be offended by this statement--"college educated" or not!!!
    Its not about experience! Its about intellijence! Of course the Democrats can't dare atack her on lacking either one, as that would surely (as has been done in the past) be branded as "elitest and sexist!!" How very sad! What! Like Republicans don't have "elitests and sexists" in their ranks as well?

    2. Unlike yourself and CirylCroydon at #116, I don't believe that all she has to do in order to be branded the "winner" is to successfully string a coherent sentence together with relletive ease, Because her ignorance and at times thoughtlessness will still shine through. I would ask you and CiroylCroydon to please not stereotype Independents quite so soon and quite so harshly just yet. They care just as much as everyone else about her level of intellijence and good judgement, as they do about her "verbage," as she likes to put it.


    But Justin, its just as well. I recommend that you seriously consider forgoing all the rest of the remaining debates all together. They'll never hold a candle to the British version of debate, and as long as you and those other Britins continue to not accept that our two systems of government are different and furthermore accept the American system for what it is, then you will continue to be let down every time.

    As I've said before, I think we Americans need to learn from the British how to keep our candidates on the streight and narrow, and to not be afraid to show our true feelings in a debate setting!!! But I also think that the British need to redescover what it means to respect your fellow man. If we both do this, what wonderfully improved systems of government we will have!!! But I wouldn't hold my breath. I'll just watch for the inevidable continueance of people from both countries slamming each other's system because they don't understand or accept it.


    Let the fighting begin!

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  • 203. At 9:00pm on 29 Sep 2008, LadyBobbieBea wrote:

    Nos. 152 and 163 Ed
    No. 161 Fritz

    I would like to see Palin thoroughly challanged on all levels: her education, experience, and her political decisions, regardless of her gender. All this is instrumental in making the best decisions for the future of our nation.

    Now, you two, you could have linked to it and left it alone, but you had to get some more mileage out of it. I think you crossed the line. What do you have to say for yourselves now?

    This differs from Sam's healthy male appreciation of the Senator's wife...he wasn't crude, just very silly.

    b

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  • 204. At 9:05pm on 29 Sep 2008, LadyBobbieBea wrote:

    No. 171 Wandering

    I'm sad to report that it's probably very true in more numbers than we would like to admit. I cite my own mother as an example. Very intelligent, educated, and still sharp as a tack at 83, she agrees with me on the candidates and the issues, however, she cannot bring herself to voting for Senator Obama. She won't speak it out loud; however, we've covered every other reason. She just won't admit her prejudice.

    My daughter's generation, (she's 30), however, is far less prejudice.

    b

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  • 205. At 9:12pm on 29 Sep 2008, john-In-Dublin wrote:

    200 LURKINGBLACKHAT wrote:

    "DB is quite right when he says..."

    Tedious predictable rightwing whinge. The BBC are raving lefties, a leading blogger they don't like writes with crayon, the nasty old media are picking on the poor little Republicans, yada yada - REALLY clever stuff.

    And Mr Hat [who as I recall is a puppet on South Park] doesn't bother telling us who on earth "DB" is.

    I'm guessing his surname is Brane

    And his given name is Richard.....

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  • 206. At 9:21pm on 29 Sep 2008, NoRashDecisions wrote:

    Cheese Me Too (#106) writes, '"You would expect American news media to have more in depth coverage of an American story."

    And indeed they do! Wtch any American news channel. All they have covered since the beginning of the year has been the election. Trust me, on this front at least, the media is more than doing their job!


    "What a bizare comment, do the likes of Fox have 'parades of armies of top flight analysts' to cover British politics? Thought not."



    First of all, Fox news is the most right wing bias news organisation in the history of broadcasting!! Even moderate Republicans think it is too right wing!! So don't take what they say as gospel, rather turn to CNN or MSNBC for more credable information. And second, no they don't, but what is largely because a general election has not yet been called (or forced) which ever comes first, in the UK as of yet. But once one is, believe me, US news media will cover it just as the BBC covers US elections! The level of intencity is just different because UK elections last a month, where as US ones last a year.

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  • 207. At 9:33pm on 29 Sep 2008, NoRashDecisions wrote:

    Justin, you can't have it both ways. Palin is either Thatcher or the world's biggest discrais. Take your pick.

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  • 208. At 10:02pm on 29 Sep 2008, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Hey NoRash, # 193

    Ed seems to be busy. Tried it myself and it is as he says - a doodle [ easy]
    This is Eds link site

    http://home2.btconnect.com/tipiglen/links2.html


    Eds'instruction links [ I hope]

    Regards wma

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  • 209. At 10:39pm on 29 Sep 2008, tuptocom wrote:

    One thing that I keep seeing repeated in the comments are the words Palin and experience, those two words don't go together.

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  • 210. At 10:51pm on 29 Sep 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    162.

    "The gamblers are giving Virginia, Ohio, Florida and Nevada to Obama, but not North Carolina. As of today: Obama 59+, McCain 40+"

    Update: Obama 61.6, McCain 38.4.

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  • 211. At 10:51pm on 29 Sep 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    For those of you who feel a magnetic attraction
    to Sarah, here is the cure.

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  • 212. At 11:32pm on 29 Sep 2008, NoRashDecisions wrote:

    Google's web cite

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  • 213. At 11:42pm on 29 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    NoRashDecisions

    Easy Linking and other tricks

    Don't forget your hat

    ;-)
    ed

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  • 214. At 11:48pm on 29 Sep 2008, U12831485 wrote:

    203. A, LadyBobbieBea wrote:

    No. 161 Fritz

    Now, you two, you could have linked to it and left it alone, but you had to get some more mileage out of it. I think you crossed the line. What do you have to say for yourselves now?

    _____

    I'm afraid I can't quite follow, what's your point ?


    _____
    _____

    195. David_Cunard:


    But, like Sophisticated Sam, you fail to see the attraction of that to a large segment of American society.

    --------

    It might not have become clear, but I see and even understand that attraction.
    That's why the Palin comedy is grotesque, not funny.

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  • 215. At 00:00am on 30 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    NoRash,

    Now bookmark it!

    ;-)
    ed

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  • 216. At 02:57am on 30 Sep 2008, SunshinePlus wrote:

    The American citizen needs intelligent articulate statesmen qualities in their leadership . . . .not a cheerleader!

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  • 217. At 03:44am on 30 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 218. At 10:16am on 30 Sep 2008, Trebor wrote:

    The BBC and the Democrats in the States are certainly worried about Palin. It is quite amusing to see all the "she's rubbish" comments. If she was that bad the Beeb wouldn't bother to knock her. She must be a big threat!

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  • 219. At 2:08pm on 30 Sep 2008, objectivemyrse wrote:

    Justin Webb is a disgrace to objective reporting. Does he have the faintest idea how transparent he is ?

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  • 220. At 5:09pm on 30 Sep 2008, Shaun Harvey wrote:

    #219

    What should Justin Webb say? Palin has performed unbelievably badly in interviews, has a questionable track record and is a creationist. For the majority of college educated people this is deeply concerning for a woman that may well be a future president of the United States. To report that she has performed well in the name of 'objectivity' would defeat the purpose of a blog and would simply be dismissive of fact (something Palin seems, willingly or otherwise) to be quite capable of.

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  • 221. At 5:30pm on 01 Oct 2008, karrapavan wrote:

    I hope that McCain wins. I was worried about who would provide Bushisms. I guess Palin can entertain us for another 16(8 as VP and 8 as P) years. Looking forward to good times.

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  • 222. At 01:45am on 02 Oct 2008, benquiet wrote:

    America has been a pretty dismal scene for almost 8 years because of endless war, low wages, tax breaks only for the wealthy, trampling of the Constitution, indictments of public officials and on and on. There has been one reliable source of humor, Bush and Bushisms. That bright spot is is leaving the world stage, but good old John McCain offers a new act.
    Call her what you like, Nanook of the North, Napoleon in Mukluks, Sister Sarah on a Snowmobile or the Guiding Light of the Tundra. She has overwhelmed audiences in the US with just 2 interviews. Get ready world. This little lady has miscommunicative talent to burn. Blonds are rejoicing in their elevated intellectual status. If she doesn't entertain at the debate, blame it on her script writers. If she abandons her script and wings it, a la Robin Williams her mangled remarks are just natural, so hang on for a barrel of laughs. We don't, however, need 4 years of it.

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  • 223. At 06:10am on 02 Oct 2008, dattatt wrote:

    Isn't any American men and women wired into the Sarah Palin hype old enough to remember Spiro Agnew,Nixon's running mate in 1972 ,wowing the media with such phrases as 'nattering nabobs" of the left ? The similarity and the wow factor are stunningly spooky. When one also remember that months into vice-presidency, Agnew pleaded no-contest to a felony charge and resigned, forebodings start gathering. I think BBC will do a service if it reminds its viewers by clips on spiro Agnew-- and also perhaps the beautiful Mr Dan Quale ,another Vice-President who though Latin Americans spoke in latin !

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  • 224. At 2:24pm on 06 Oct 2008, SunshinePlus wrote:

    The truth wins over tactics and strategy anytime and Obama represents the truth to most of the world. It is that simple. Enough said,

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  • 225. At 03:54am on 25 Dec 2008, dennisjunior1 wrote:

    it doesn't like that palin; works that good under pressure!

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