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A big one

Justin Webb | 19:25 UK time, Friday, 26 September 2008

Quite a big one then, this debate.

The issues are set out here and the reason he had to go here.

Just as well he sorted out the financial crisis before getting there as he (kind of) promised.

Didn't he?


  • 1. At 7:34pm on 26 Sep 2008, StKole wrote:

    Of course he didnt. Big, big miscalculation, and very mavericky, not to say panicky.

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  • 2. At 7:44pm on 26 Sep 2008, flameeliza wrote:

    SupaMcCain to the nations rescue!

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  • 3. At 7:44pm on 26 Sep 2008, garrettmc wrote:

    Well its clear to me that McCain didn't solve anything especially within his own party.
    What did the 'maverick' have to say for himself ? not much if we're to believe the blogs or any press release from him. Lets see him bring up 'older' issues up tonight like immigration re:the wall to nowhere: 'build, baby build'

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  • 4. At 7:46pm on 26 Sep 2008, GhetNormal wrote:

    He's nuts. He's completely barking.

    I haven't heard this mentioned, maybe I missed it: The American public love the presidential debates. They'd be miffed at McCain for denying them their reality TV show.

    I remember being over here in 2004, thirty people crowded around a TV shouting at everything Bush said (it was California). It's a huge event in the election and an immensely enjoyable one for a public starved of the kind of political theater that British people get every Wednesday.

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  • 5. At 7:48pm on 26 Sep 2008, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    No, he didn't. It was just a photo-op.

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  • 6. At 7:48pm on 26 Sep 2008, TimothyR444 wrote:

    The economic situation is not sorted out.

    It is the number one issue for Americans.

    It may not be of any interest to the Brits who are watching all of this, but for us it is at the top of the list.

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  • 7. At 8:06pm on 26 Sep 2008, alanskillcole wrote:

    1 year of this theatre....couldn't it be done quicker?
    By the time tweedledum gets in, it's time to start campaigning be as angst-ridden and complicated and unacheiving as an episode of that "West Wing" drawn out thing.

    Almost, almost, perversely, hope McCain gets in so republicans can sort out their own mess.
    Would be funny.

    We've no leaders this side anyway...last night's "Questiontime" almost looks as if they were touting Hazel Blear(s) Smith-Johnson vs. about a lack of "the vision thing" as Bush snr. (?) called it...

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  • 8. At 8:15pm on 26 Sep 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    The most interesting part of tonight's debate is not going to be foreign policy, the positions of both candidates are clear on that subject and I expect both to do well, but the issue of supporting military action in foreign lands at a time when our fiscal, economic, and financial situation is so precarious.
    It will be interesting to see how the candidates propose to pay for our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan at a time when Americans are losing their homes, their jobs, having trouble paying their credit card debt, paying for gas, and buying food and medicine.
    Like it or not, considering the current circumstances and national priorities, the debate will most likely be dominated by financial issues rather than traditional foreign policy political and strategic positions and proposals.

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  • 9. At 8:25pm on 26 Sep 2008, kburns_ireland wrote:

    McCain has always had a penchant for drama, evidenced by his temper and these rather un-measured decisions.

    I think Americans look for 'steadiness' in their leaders - but McCain seems to be "flip-flopping" all over the place (to borrow a Republican charge from the last election cycle). Whether he turns out to be right about the need to stay in Washington to negotiate is immaterial - it's bad news for him either way, because he looks like he's in a spin. It was an abstract error, rather than a specific one.

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  • 10. At 8:31pm on 26 Sep 2008, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:

    Debates are pretty important in Presidential elections, especially in states that don't get the daily barrage of campaign ads.

    When comparing McCain's reaction to the financial crisis versus Obama, think carefully about what happened. McCain took on the issue, declaring that while he hates the idea of bailouts, this one was necessary; he even stopped his campaign and went to D.C. to help in the Senate.

    What did Obama do? He was silent for days. When he did decide to comment, all he did was point the finger and talk in generalizations about reform; he was mum on the bailout, and offered no solution other than his clichéd "change."

    Sure, he met with Bush, but McCain did too. Obama spoke about how horrible the crisis was and yet has failed in his obligations as a Senator to participate in preparing the bailout bill, as yet the only plan to salvage the economy, even going so far as to say that his presence in Congress would be unhelpful and a hindrance to the process.
    A crisis doesn't always fix itself, and with respect to our constitution, a President can't just be present.

    If Obama can, as he said, juggle more than one thing at a time, how is it that he couldn't handle the Senate debate and the Presidential debate. It now appears that, regardless of what's been said, McCain could and can do both now that he's debating tonight, and yet he's the one being criticized.

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  • 11. At 8:35pm on 26 Sep 2008, AmericanfromNW wrote:

    Hopefully, the economic issues are now being brokered in the House with regional issues represented. Initially, I was unhappy with the conservatives balking at the approach, but now realize that the dialog is all. Presidential elections are too dichotomous to be incorporated into current issues. We need leave our dream world of simple solutions to complex problems - if for no other reason than you'd think we would have tired of it by now.

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  • 12. At 8:37pm on 26 Sep 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    #6. TimothyR444: "It may not be of any interest to the Brits who are watching all of this, but for us it is at the top of the list."

    Of course it's of interest to the British: The Times' headline in its UK edition is Renewed hope for bailout after Bush plea.

    What happens in the US has ripples - or worse - elsewhere. As a senator, Mr McCain only has one vote and appears not to be involved in the solution; a debate on foreign policy is not going to hinder any further discussion in Washington.

    #2. flameeliza: "SupaMcCain to the nations rescue!"

    The original "SuperMac" (Macmillan) campaigned on the phrase "You've never had it so good" - not something this SupaM could say!!

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  • 13. At 9:03pm on 26 Sep 2008, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:

    For those of you who feel that nothing has been accomplished, read from a few articles:

    Friday, September 26, 2008

    MSN: Republicans and Democrats were negotiating again in hopes that a new rescue package would emerge before Sunday night and the opening of Asian financial markets.

    Fox News: Senior Senate Republicans and Democrats expressed confidence Friday that they would complete a Wall Street financial bailout plan by midnight Saturday and put it out for a vote over the weekend.

    CNN: interestingly, their top story was that McCain decided to participate in the Pres. Debate; no mention of progress on the bill since talks broke down Thursday. – McCain brought many Republicans opposing the bailout bill back to the table.

    BBC: a bill could be drawn up by midnight in the US on Friday, and voted on either on Sunday or Monday.

    All of the above was taken from the bodies of the top news headlines.

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  • 14. At 9:06pm on 26 Sep 2008, gzfar451 wrote:

    To BienvenueEnLouisiana -
    Obama isn't part of the Banking and Finance committee - neither is McCain. They were neither expected nor needed. Obama was on the phone to Paulson and his party peeps every day. He said he's come to DC if he could be helpful and if he was asked to come. He wasn't asked, neither was McCain. McCain pulled a stunt to try to make Obama look bad to people like you who only listen to sound bytes and skip over the details. All McCain did was get in the way. I hope Obama wipes the floor with him tonight. ( from vallejo california)

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  • 15. At 9:06pm on 26 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    6. TimothyR444:

    "The economic situation is not sorted out.

    It is the number one issue for Americans.

    It may not be of any interest to the Brits "

    It's the number one thing on people's minds, despite their fondness for debates.

    The debate is a very welcome distraction -- from the debacle of partisan fighting -- and gets Obama back in the limelight. That is critical as he has been rendered silent since the negotiating process started.

    In the end, after the pundits have had their fun with McCain (erratic, unpredictable, etc.), McCain will be the one who did something -- anything -- while Obama will have been the one who watched from the sidelines, except when dragged to the table.

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  • 16. At 9:12pm on 26 Sep 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    If Obama can, as he said, juggle more than one thing at a time, how is it that he couldn't handle the Senate debate and the Presidential debate. It now appears that, regardless of what's been said, McCain could and can do both now that he's debating tonight, and yet he's the one being criticized.

    Because he is the one flip-flopping. McCain had nothing to offer on the bail-out package, he's admitted he's not strong on economics, but he ran off to Washington anyway, desperately trying to duck out of this debate. Obama called his bluff and now he's had to come crawling back. If McCain can't handle a simple debate then maybe he should just bow out of the race with what little dignity he has left.

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  • 17. At 9:14pm on 26 Sep 2008, Northumbrian wrote:

    #12, "What happens in the US has ripples - or worse - elsewhere"

    This is not a ripple, it's a tsunami

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  • 18. At 9:17pm on 26 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #14

    But one of the two of them will be President in four months and will be dealing with the fallout.

    Just as on Nov 5, the President elect will start getting security breifings

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  • 19. At 9:26pm on 26 Sep 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    Ref 10

    "What did Obama do? He was silent for days. When he did decide to comment, all he did was point the finger and talk in generalizations about reform; he was mum on the bailout, and offered no solution other than his clich?d "change."

    There is definitely a lot of political posturing and finger pointing, not only by the Presidential candidates but by Senators and Congressmen running for re-election; but I disagree that Obama limited his actions to finger pointing. In fact, he was an active participant in the discussions at the White House while McCain remained silent and detached. Some GOP senators attribute McCain's ambivalence to his desire to absorb information before formulating a strategy, but fear of demonstrating ignorance on economic matters is a more likely explanation.

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  • 20. At 9:27pm on 26 Sep 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    #15. AndreainNY: "McCain will be the one who did something -- anything . . ."

    And what would that be? It's not as if he is on either the Senate Finance Committee or Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs. Dashing to DC did nothing but show how impetuous he is.

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  • 21. At 9:35pm on 26 Sep 2008, goleooo wrote:

    McCain wins Debate!!!?????

    HOly Mary mother of God....

    Am I going back in time missing the debate or what?

    McCain won a debate that hasn't happened yet?

    Wait!!! what!!!! Can someone sane explain this to me? How does one win a battle that hasn't happened yet?


    Did God talk to McCain and told him he won? Weird #$%^ happening these days.

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  • 22. At 9:35pm on 26 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #16

    Very few Americans are 1 issue voters. Unless you are an extremist on either end of the political spectrum or if it more important the r or d in front of a person's name.

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  • 23. At 9:36pm on 26 Sep 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    I don't expect much out of this debate, except for
    the usual Punch and Judy show about political
    positions which have been obsolete now for
    about 6 months.

    Should we stay in Iraq? - we're getting out.

    Should we talk with the Iranians? - we just set up
    a special interest section in Tehran?

    Should we extend NATO membership to Georgia
    and the Ukraine? - Georgia cannot be admitted
    now because there is an active conflict between
    them and the big bad Russians, and the Ukrainians
    themselves don't know what they want to do.

    Meanwhile, the important issues, such as how
    to deal with the economy will not be addressed
    because they are not on the agenda of the debate,
    and because both candidates have lousy positions
    on the issue.

    Obama - promise cradle-to-grave security and,
    to quote Ten Years After, tax the rich, feed the poor,
    till there are no rich no more.

    McCain - cut spending except for the military,
    and continue borrowing money from our rivals
    until they shovel dirt in our graves.

    Sometimes, I think that the only thing that will
    bring this country to its senses is a total economic

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  • 24. At 9:36pm on 26 Sep 2008, MICKBURKE wrote:

    McCain is starting to worry me. His behaviour does not seem very presidential. Jumping from one position to another and still giving no real clue as to his thinking on any subject with the exception of foreign policy.

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  • 25. At 9:37pm on 26 Sep 2008, goleooo wrote:

    I have a solution.
    Why don't we devide the country.
    Those middle states that are republicans let's form the Republican United States of America, and those of us who want Democracy have the Democratic United States of America.

    That way everyone is happy, and all you small town value people, religious hypocrites, cheaters and liars go to your red states.

    Sounds fair no?

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  • 26. At 9:44pm on 26 Sep 2008, cannonballmartin wrote:

    This is ridiculous. Ralph Nader predicted this Wall Street meltdown and warned Congress (, yet he is not allowed in the debate.

    American two-party politics is not working. Look what happens when the third voice is ignored.

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  • 27. At 9:52pm on 26 Sep 2008, AmericanfromNW wrote:

    Note. Don't think Senate debate has been impacting the progress on this legislation. Main holdup with House Republicans. Still don't think the pause caused by this dialog is a bad thing.

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  • 28. At 10:12pm on 26 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #25

    Thank you Michael Moore, there is no State that is entirely Red or Blue.

    And considering the convulated undemocratic way Obama won the nomination I would call anyone cheaters.

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  • 29. At 10:29pm on 26 Sep 2008, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:

    Your idea of seceding wouldn't work out very well. Red states would have most of the food, and seceding Blue states would starve. Besides, Red states are more likely to stand with the U.S. Government and the military making for a difficult secession.

    Any state or Party trying to secede would very likely find itself going the way of the Federalist Party after the war of 1812 or at best linger in the underground as modern rebels can attest.

    While I prefer McCain, I would not choose to advocate secession if Obama wins the election because I believe in the Democratic processes of our Republic. I'll simply wait for the next election year and hope that things go ok. If Obama loses, I hope that Democrats chose civility rather than the opposite.

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  • 30. At 10:57pm on 26 Sep 2008, MarcusTribet wrote:

    McCain has once again shown where his priorities are: country first. When there's a crisis, you at least show up - even if it turns out there's not much you can do. Debates and such like can be postponed.

    For Obama, the campaign is and always will be the priority.

    Obama is a Candidate. McCain is a President.

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  • 31. At 10:59pm on 26 Sep 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    #17. pvsutton: "This is not a ripple, it's a tsunami."

    Which was the point of the words following: "or worse." Apparently you don't understand British understatement. Whenever possible, subtlety is my preference.

    #29. BienvenueEnLouisiana: "If Obama loses, I hope that Democrats chose civility rather than the opposite." And conversely; Republicans can be as insulting as the rest.

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  • 32. At 11:19pm on 26 Sep 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    An aside from tonight's debate; the conservative columnist Kathleen Parker, said Mrs Palin is "out of her league" and should leave the Republican ticket for the good of the party.

    Perhaps both parties have had second thoughts about their #2 selection.

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  • 33. At 11:33pm on 26 Sep 2008, joetietjen wrote:


    What did McCain achieve when he dashed off to Washington and 'suspended' his campaign?

    It appears he did nothing at all - even a dig through Fox News reveals they can't identify one positive thing attributable to him. In fact, it really seems that all he managed to achieve was to ensure bipartisanship was an impossibility by bringing the presidential election to the table - that fact is not in question and was always unavoidable.

    Marcus, Mr McCain has admitted himself that economics isn't exactly his strong point, and regardless, it appears very clear that his trip has not just been fruitless, but quite frankly obstructive.

    He should have used some (Presidential?) common sense and steered well clear.

    Instead, he has at best been a fly on the wall and had no effect, and at worst stalled the decision making process. The latter always having been the more likely outcome.

    I contest that this has been political posturing in it's purest and most cynical form - he wants you to think he's riding in to save the day, but ask yourself:

    What could this man with scant economic acumen, and massive political baggage, have actually achieved?

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  • 34. At 11:40pm on 26 Sep 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    #32, David_C, why don't we just rewind the tape
    about a year, and start over again. This is like
    having a race with lame horses.

    Better yet, let's rewind the tape back to 2000,
    and start again there.

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  • 35. At 11:51pm on 26 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:


    "Sometimes, I think that the only thing that will bring this country to its senses is a total economic collapse."
    That's my line, but you're free to use it. ;-)

    And, just for Waterman, the carrying capacity link


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  • 36. At 11:52pm on 26 Sep 2008, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To#33 Joetietjen

    Thank you!

    My understanding is that McCain's performance actually hindered the bipartisan process because a lot of the conservative, especially younger, Republicans in the House and some in the senate dislike him.

    Also, if he would have stood firmly with Bush and said "We need to get this done," it might have lent some credibility to his claim of being so concerned for the people and the economy. In my opinion, he looked mostly befuddled.

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  • 37. At 11:59pm on 26 Sep 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    Well, it looks like McCain's second bizarre tactic fell flat. It didn't turn out to be a Palin.

    Now I am waiting for his next stunt....

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  • 38. At 11:59pm on 26 Sep 2008, Candace9839 wrote:

    McCain's attempt make political hay on the bailout plan negotiations backfired. He was seen as the spoiler and then had to save face and get on with the debates. Obama has been preparing for weeks by breaking down his style and building it back up. He seems ready, down to the finishing touches of memos lowering expectations ahead of the debates.

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  • 39. At 00:02am on 27 Sep 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    Ref 33

    "What did McCain achieve when he dashed off to Washington and 'suspended' his campaign?"

    McCain's theatrics had a lot more to do with poll results than with the financial crisis. The McCain campaign had to do something dramatic to slow down Obama's momentum.

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  • 40. At 00:11am on 27 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:



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  • 41. At 00:11am on 27 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    20. David_Cunard:

    "Dashing to DC did nothing but show how impetuous he is."

    Just as choosing to remain "on call" displays a detachment and lack of a sense of urgency. It's that judgment thing again.

    Obama's always 500 feet above the fray. That aloofness is not an asset when the country's financial system is tanking.

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  • 42. At 00:12am on 27 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    One easy prediction : Networks

    MSNBC will say Obama wins

    Unless major flub so will CNN BBC CBS

    ABC and Fox will give honest analysis

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  • 43. At 00:16am on 27 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    It gets worse!

    A heartbeat away...puduh dump, puduh dump, puduh dump, puduh dump, puduh dump, puduh dump,


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  • 44. At 00:21am on 27 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    Well, one thing McCain's "dashing off" to DC did was to uncover the truth about these negotiations.

    There was no deal as claimed by the dems, and the House republicans were not on board at all.

    Pelosi is insisting on the House republicans providing a certain number of votes to cover for the dems.

    The republican negotiators needed changing.

    The republicans offered an alternative that involved insurance and a partial infusion.

    McCain's arrival set off a string of events that led to the reporting of the truth about the negotiations. I'm sure there's plenty that they managed to keep under wraps.

    I, for one, am glad to know these things.

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  • 45. At 00:24am on 27 Sep 2008, Simon21 wrote:


    What did McCain achieve when he dashed off to Washington and 'suspended' his campaign?

    It appears he did nothing at all - even a dig through Fox News reveals they can't identify one positive thing attributable to him. In fact, it really seems that all he managed to achieve was to ensure bipartisanship was an impossibility by bringing the presidential election to the table - that fact is not in question and was always unavoidable."

    He succeeded brilliantly in giving an air of panic and making a fool of himself.

    Next he will suddenly fly to Seoul and ask for the election to be postponed.

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  • 46. At 00:58am on 27 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:


    "Well, one thing McCain's "dashing off" to DC did was to uncover the truth about these negotiations.

    There was no deal as claimed by the dems, and the House republicans were not on board at all."
    Have a read of this, for some perspective.


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  • 47. At 01:06am on 27 Sep 2008, SaintDominick wrote:

    In my opinion, the debt rescue plan that the Bush Administration sent to Congress for quick approval is a Trojan horse designed to influence the election in November. It could have serious consequences for Democrats if they go along with it as presented.

    While there is no question that we are facing a serious banking and financial crises, very little has been provided to illustrate the magnitude of the problem, and even less to justify the huge disbursement of taxpayer's money that the Administration is requesting in the form of a blank check for them to manage.

    There is no doubt that further bankruptcies are likely, but they are likely to be smaller than those that have already taken place and we have been able to weather the storm with little trouble (except for some Wall Street investors). Why should we believe that additional failures will destroy our financial system when, in fact, the surviving institutions may actually come out of this more robust than they were before the crises.

    Most importantly, why isn't the bailout directed to help the hundreds of thousands of Americans whose houses are being foreclosed? If the problem is bad mortgages and falling real estate prices, shouldn't the bailout address the root cause of the problem instead of giving our money to the unscrupulous and inept CEOs of the institutions that contributed to this problem in the first place?

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  • 48. At 01:12am on 27 Sep 2008, gunsandreligion wrote:

    Ed, it's a shame that the locomotive and the caboose
    are not on the same train on the Republican side.
    This is all so depressing that I am being driven
    to find a replay of "FDR on the TV in 1929" just
    to see how we got through all this the last time.

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  • 49. At 01:14am on 27 Sep 2008, Mike Mullen wrote:

    I would say the outcome of the debate is already settled; mcCain wanted to delay the debate and Obama didn't. The debate is going ahead as scheduled so...
    BTW Magickirin the use of the words 'FOX' and 'honest analysis' in the same sentence automatically renders it impossible to take anything you say seriously.

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  • 50. At 01:15am on 27 Sep 2008, AndreainNY wrote:

    An interesting look at how the government got us into this mess.

    What Caused the Crisis on Wall Street?

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  • 51. At 01:18am on 27 Sep 2008, joetietjen wrote:


    Please. McCain uncovered the truth?

    How? What questions did he ask?

    If you look at the chain of events, all you can say is that McCain slowed the process, and perhaps even set it back if you want to attribute the proposal of the 'debt insurance' idea that had already been considered and rejected.

    But you can't even attribute that to him - what is there to suggest he had anything to do with that? Has he indicated that? Have any of his campaign spokespersons?

    No; and you can bet your bottom dollar they'd be tired of blowing their trumpets by now if McCain had managed to do anything even remotely deserving of praise.

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  • 52. At 01:23am on 27 Sep 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    #41. AndreainNY: "It's that judgment thing again."

    If that's the case, what exactly did Mr McCain achieve? I think - and obviously we disagree on this - that Mr Obama demonstrated good judgement by not being embroiled and grandstanding.

    #42. MagicKirin: "Fox will give honest analysis"

    They never have yet, so why start now? Unless of course Fox is slowly changing direction to comply with the wishes of its owner rather than Mr Ailes.

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  • 53. At 01:28am on 27 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Goals and strategy


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  • 54. At 01:37am on 27 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:



    Usually it's better if you show up to make sure you don't stand in the way. Presidents don't dash to the location of the latest issue, drop everything elseand fail to delegate to keep the less important stuff running. He could easily have looked presidential by saying 'I hand my camapign to my capable deputy while I deal with this mess' and then had an opinion when he got there.

    To use a forest fire metaphor, McCain went 'Crap, there's a fire. get me over there. Wow look at that fire! Someone put it out, someone put it out. Mr Firefighter, you want me to move out of the way? No, I'm leading. I am I am I am. Wait, there's a debatre. People think I'm chicken. Get me tothe debate. Glad that fire is out. What? Wait, there's a fire?'

    He was as much use to the firefighters as a pair of wooden legs. Ho looked like a clueless buffoon. I realize that that is what we have come to expect from POTUS over the past 8 years, but presidential it ain't.

    Fireman Sam

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  • 55. At 01:42am on 27 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:


    Why Aqua,

    He did help. He stood behind his buddy W while he was yelled at by them pesky kids. In his own house.

    Ouch baby!

    Austin Sam

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  • 56. At 01:44am on 27 Sep 2008, SanYing wrote:

    Beware Obama..! McCain still has a few more rabbits up his sleeve!

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  • 57. At 02:41am on 27 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #49

    Hillary Clinton said Fox gave the fairest election converage.

    They are the most honest all news channel in this hemisphere.

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  • 58. At 03:28am on 27 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:

    Fellow bloggers,

    I have a serious observation half way through this debate (I am watching on CNN HD, for the record).

    John McCain is wearing a serious F' off tie. That thing is wide enough to land a 757 on. Plus it is tied with a single windsor knot. I would bet $50 he has to tuck the back dangly bit in his pants and it is 8 inchesw longer than the front.

    We are revising our policies:

    GOBBBDMAWGWKMTSPFO have added a policy item:

    - Gentlemen who wear ties must go to a tailor who has a range of lengths suited to their height
    - Gentlemen shall always use a double Windsor knot

    I also think he is standing on a box.

    On the minus for Obama, and I use this analogy for the Brits from my time there:

    - Obama would be the first president who looks like the FA Cup

    Tired Sam

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  • 59. At 03:35am on 27 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    I'll bet Magic reckons McCain won the debate.

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  • 60. At 04:17am on 27 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:



    I haven't had stuff that good since the 60's. Can you post your supplier?

    High Sam

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  • 61. At 04:43am on 27 Sep 2008, allmymarbles wrote:

    57, Magic.

    I FOX is unbiased then I am Queen of the May.

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  • 62. At 04:51am on 27 Sep 2008, MarcusTribet wrote:


    I like your metaphor, Fireman Sam.

    How about this:

    "Gee, there's a fire, but I don't know whether I want to get involved in trying to put it out. What will people think if I end up looking useless. Better to hang back and stay above the fray. It doesn't really matter if the building burns down, as long as no one blames me. I will, however, assure one and all that I am deeply concerned about fires and their potentially disasterous consequences. Now, on to more important things . . . it seems I've got a rally to address."

    Commander in Chief material?

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  • 63. At 05:21am on 27 Sep 2008, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    58. Sam. Not as good as the "chemistry set" line, but still funny.

    Does anyone else find McCain's delivery awkward? Mark Shields commented on PBS that for McCain, this was pretty good. Maybe his presentation is stiff, but he really knows more? If so, it wasn't evident.

    Neither of these guys is Warren Christopher or Colin Powell. Or Tony Blair, for that matter.

    Bloodless draw: All Obama needed.


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  • 64. At 08:07am on 27 Sep 2008, David Cunard wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 65. At 10:30am on 27 Sep 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    Johnny Foreigner,

    "Bloodless draw: All Obama needed."
    Exactly. Boring. Loved the firefighter image, Sam.

    Magic loves Faux News - surprised?

    An alternative to Justin's 'live blog'

    Salaam, etc.

    Travels in Iran, Interesting observations.

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  • 66. At 10:56am on 27 Sep 2008, MagicKirin wrote:

    ref #65

    Yes I like a network that can have a reasoned discussion between someone from the National Review and NPR.

    You won't see that on a propganda networl like MSNBC.

    In terms of the debate overall McCain won because he was better when he had to go off script.

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  • 67. At 6:32pm on 27 Sep 2008, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    SamTyler1969 (#58), in the US we call those knots "Windor" and "Half-Windsor." I use the half-windsor. In my entire life I think I've met only one person who tied a full Windsor. He's a bartender, and not my idea of a gentleman.

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  • 68. At 7:06pm on 27 Sep 2008, british-ish wrote:

    Somebody suggested rewinding and starting this all over again????????

    With only five weeks to go before we finally see the back of it? And, as far as I can see, with none of us any wiser about the pair of them than we were a year ago. (Or six months or whatever. It feels like a decade.)

    I don't think the rest of the world could stand it. As it is, the way it seems to work, the next campaign will probably start in February 2009.

    Oh, well, only two more anodyne 'debates' going over the same old ground for the umpteenth time for me not to listen to . . .

    It's just struck me I think it all ends on Nov 4th? That's handy. Just enough time to decide who to burn in effigy instead of Guy Fawkes on the fifth. Can I interest any American contributors in a British cultural export: our bonfire night? You'd like it.

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  • 69. At 03:04am on 28 Sep 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:


    The finest most upstanding folks in the world all use the double windsor. For example all my friends on Wall street use . . . .

    Hang on, you've got a point there.

    Sad Sam

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  • 70. At 7:18pm on 28 Sep 2008, Parrisia wrote:

    well, in the end, he went and nothing negative has remained

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  • 71. At 7:20pm on 28 Sep 2008, SONICBOOMER wrote:

    Just a point about the political wrangling around this crisis.
    Both are guilty over years, since they not only gave Wall St too little regulation, they were creating a bubble because the 'feel-good' factor was just what the voting public wanted.

    Real leadership be damned, check those focus groups out!
    In all this, very few are innocent, certainly not huge swathes of the voting public.

    And it DOES has a major effect over here, since the UK is pretty much as guilty in too little regulation.
    (Or worse when you consider that at times, the US does actually manage to prosecute and severely punish fraudsters).

    It is having rather less negative effect in places like France and Germany, the ones Gordon Brown often chided for having too much regulation of markets.
    Well who's laughing now?

    Extend that further, can the US ever again, try to tell others how to run their economies, telling them they have to have far less regulation and certainly no nationalisation.

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  • 72. At 01:34am on 29 Sep 2008, lawchicago wrote:

    McCain is a rich , indulged and cynical man . He has little respect for the pubic with his smoke and mirrors act.
    Lets face it with 10 to 12 ? houses and 120 Mil or more he doesnt give a rats --- about the rest of us isnt that obvious?

    His strong suit isn't economics anyway .
    ouch, neither was it Bush's

    Nuf said

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  • 73. At 3:44pm on 30 May 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Greetings to anyone who hasn't gone away for the weekend.

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  • 74. At 4:41pm on 30 May 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    Good choice bere.

    It's a gorgeous day - if it isn't already there, a beautiful day is headed your way after all that rain.

    Time to get out and do some jobs in the yard.

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  • 75. At 5:20pm on 30 May 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits -

    It was gorgeous at 5:30 a.m. when I was awakened by a ravenous cat, but by the time I had to leave the house a few hours later it had completely clouded over, and remains so. Perhaps we will have your weather tomorrow. At least it's not cold, which is something to be thankful for here in Vermont at any time of the year.

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  • 76. At 5:24pm on 30 May 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Sorry, Interestedforeigner, I addressed the previous post to the wrong person! Must be losing it.

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  • 77. At 6:56pm on 30 May 2009, aquarizonagal wrote:

    Good morning! Very roomy kitchen

    To Timely One

    I really enjoyed your post #498 in the previous kitchen. Elizabeth May has even more of my admiration after reading your link. What an interesting woman AND she is involved with 'Help Lesotho.' I knew of this group but had no details. I also enjoyed the Michael Mercer link and the humor. I liked your 'opposition leader.' I will not try to spell his name. Is he a good guy? Is this party similar to what we call the 'minority' party leadership here? I seek to educate myself.

    I am ashamed that I know very little of Canadian politics. I know much of Mexico but little about Canada except that I liked the Canadians I met. They were cheerful and tireless aid workers. Sadly, 'leisure' conversation either involved work or inconsequential things about families or foods missed, not politics.


    I guess we are more fortunate here for news and politics of our neighbor to the South. We have newspapers in Spanish, radio and TV stations that report the news. Also the English language media covers a lot of current events and Mexican politics. We try to follow both sources.

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  • 78. At 8:05pm on 30 May 2009, bere54 wrote:

    aqua, I suspect the difference in news sources for our respective border states has a lot to do with the many Mexican and South American people in the Southwest, whereas we don't seem to have a huge community of Canadians. Still, I found it very odd that the major Canadian papers aren't available here. I can buy the NY Times and the Boston Globe, yet we are actually closer to Montreal than to either of those two cities. I have a feeling that in Europe one can find cross-border newspapers.

    Now of course with the internet it doesn't much matter -- except there are so many people in Vermont whose only option is dial-up and that makes it very difficult. When I lived out in the countryside a couple of years ago with only dial-up, it took six minutes to access anything, then another six minutes to go to the next page! One gives up quickly.

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  • 79. At 9:35pm on 30 May 2009, aquarizonagal wrote:


    I know exactly what you mean about the dial up access. So frustrating!
    We had that as our only option until about two years ago.

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  • 80. At 11:05pm on 30 May 2009, bere54 wrote:

    waterman, should you find your way over here - I concur with your 501 of the previous kitchen. That one is now on my "scroll past, do not reply" list. Life is too short, there's so much to read, on here and otherwise, to waste time on anything that is not edifying and thoughtful, or at least funny. And I prefer to be berated by my friends and family, who at least know what faults of mine are complaint-worthy and are very amusing when they go about it.

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  • 81. At 00:56am on 31 May 2009, aquarizonagal wrote:

    To# 80 Bere

    I will add my 'Amen' to your comment if you do not mind. I have tried to be civil and even engage with that person but I, also, am finished. Besides, I am vexed enough at the airlines. I need nothing else this day!

    We had planned to stuff our suitcases with vitamins, protein supplement, yarn, sewing supplies etc., for the village women but it seems the airlines have all kinds of weight restrictions and other stupid limits now. What ever happened to just packing a suitcase or two and getting on a plane?

    We tried to find out what we might have to pay for over the weight limit but it seems that information can only be calculated at time of departure. That sounds like a scam to me! The person I spoke to was most irritating. Oh well, these things are sent to try both patience and ingenuity. We WILL get this sorted out!

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  • 82. At 02:02am on 31 May 2009, bere54 wrote:

    81, aqua -

    You mean they won't tell you a per pound cost over the weight limit ahead of time?? Egads, they've become just like doctors and hospitals! It definitely sounds like a scam, as if they just make up the cost on the spur of the moment, based on what? Whether they like your looks or not? The tackiness of your luggage? Bribes? I thought all airlines were supposed to make all their costs and fees available. I do not blame you for being vexed (and what a ladylike word as opposed to the expression I would have used!).

    When do you leave? I told Evil D that his weight problem has cost me a free trip to Africa in a suitcase and he just yawned at me.

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  • 83. At 5:34pm on 31 May 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Interestedforeigner -

    What did you do with the beautiful weather that was supposed to be coming my way? Cold, rainy, windy, occasional very brief glimpses of the sun just to taunt us with what could be but alas is not.

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  • 84. At 10:39pm on 31 May 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    Well, it was a bit blustery last evening, and it is distinctly cool and breezy today. All the same, though, it is a beautiful spring day. I had thought you would get pretty much the same weather as the communities south of Montreal along the Richelieu valley and into the eastern townships (now, for the politically correct, "Les Cantons De L'est", or even more of an abomination "Estrie". Ask Pinko how it is that Hull has disappeared, and some place called Gatineau, as distinct from Pte. Gatineau, has taken its place). Maybe you are behind a line of mountains more than I had thought, or maybe at higher altitude.

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  • 85. At 02:14am on 01 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    NPR news has just announced that Stephen Harper has been given an award by a Canadian Jewish organization for his support for Israel and "for his strong anti-Semitic position."

    Is it possible the reporter made an error there?

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  • 86. At 03:30am on 01 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    77 aqua - It is interesting that you should "like our opposition leader" "His great-grandfather was Count Nikolay Pavlovich Ignatyev, the Russian Minister of the Interior under Tsar Alexander III, and one of the few Tsarist ministers to have escaped execution by the Bolsheviks." (wiki)
    Perhaps you find it easier to spell Ignatyev!! (Ignatieff) His father emigrated to Canada and Michael speaks Russian although I do not believe fluently. Remember in the Rick Mercer clip his wife said they were reading the Russian Classics! Perhaps in Russian!

    Elected leaders of our political parties hold seats in Parliament. This includes our Prime Minister. He is the Leader of the ruling party but also an Member of Parliament (MP) just like all the others. (The official residence is 24 Sussex Drive.) Elizabeth May did not win her seat - she ran against a very strong candidate, I'm not sure why she chose that riding (district). The Party with the second largest number of seats becomes the "Official Opposition." Their leader (in this case Michael Ignatieff - Liberal) lives at Stornoway. To equate it to the US system, John McCain would be "leader" of the Republicans and speak for them. If the Republicans felt McCain could not win the next election, they would have a Leadership Convention and replace him.

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  • 87. At 04:06am on 01 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - We were hoping for, and "truth be known" expecting, a Career Diplomat! And now, as advertised, we have this! Plus ca change...

    "The Canadian Jewish Congress says Harper is getting the award for several reasons including his vigorous condemnation of anti-Semitism and his steadfast support for Israel." Have I mentioned we need a new PM??

    Lovely weather here this week-end until about 4pm. Sunday when the rain and cold! moved in.

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  • 88. At 12:39pm on 01 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits -

    I had read about the ambassadors (and the border thing, which does not seem to have made the news on this side of the border at all; perhaps they think it's old news but a lot of people will have forgotten that today's the day). I know a lot of people don't like to hear it, but I think Obama is disappointing in a few ways, the ambassadorships being just one of them. It's as if he thinks no one will remember what he said during the campaign, or perhaps we are foolish to have believed he would have been any different than the average politician.

    Lousy weather here, not raining but cold - 40(F). And now I have to go off to babysit the scary twins.

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  • 89. At 2:24pm on 01 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Returned from Kalispell last night, sunburnt and windswept. We had a wonderful weekend, amazing location, decent weather, great company. And in the 4 games we played, outscored the opposition 15-2, beating the montana state champions in the final. Sean scored 5, all the kids worked so hard, and the assistant coach was still grinning proudly after the 3 hr drive back home. What a great way to end the season.

    The team we faced in the final included a kid with a bad knee. Despite this, he was quite the fastest boy I have ever seen, with skill too. It was a privilege to see. His coach said afterwards that his 100m would have won the high school regionals - except he is still at junior high. Definitely one to watch.

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  • 90. At 2:37pm on 01 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    aqua - I thought you would be interested in this and this.

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  • 91. At 2:54pm on 01 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - Congratulations! When my son G (age approx. 8-10) played soccer there was a boy on the team from the UK. His skills were far superior and he was a pleasure to watch. Unfortunately, he had no one to pass to!! G has a lot of natural talent and was very strong for his age so could really boot the ball! The poor little goalies/keepers would duck! Some of the games were very amusing!
    Is there a hockey program in your area?

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  • 92. At 3:12pm on 01 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    aqua- and this
    Not Africa but then pigs and mozzies do fly now and again.
    When packing the suitcases to make the weight don't forget the important personal medicine bag. Perhaps travelling to foreign climes is one of the few times I am a pessimist, and believe not only in the daily meds and necessary combative drugs required but a back-up quantaty of rescue ones as well.
    Glad you have somebody on top of their game looking after your health meds requirements.

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  • 93. At 4:05pm on 01 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Good morning to all,

    Just got back from the north country. Had a very nice weekend with my parents and sister. They had a kite festival on the shores of Tawas Bay. Very colorful and fun.

    Many Changing Woman-

    If you know where you will be staying upon arrival, perhaps you can FedEx the package of goodies ahead of you and take delivery once you're there. That should prove much more economical than paying the rate-gouging of the passenger airlines.


    CBC Television has been running public-service commercials to remind Canadians of the passport requirements for crossing the border into the U.S. I have not seen these types of commercials on our stations, other than reminders on local news of the change. The whole thing is a pile of fetid compost, as far as I'm concerned. We've shared this big, open, friendly border for a couple hundred years until a group of paranoid sunshine patriots exclaimed that the sky is falling.

    Hopefully the U.S. and Canada will be able to re-negotiate back to a more sane policy. This is going to hurt border towns on both sides of the imaginary line. We share a lot of personal commerce that will be stifled.


    Your favorite hockey personality received quite a glitzy welcome into Detroit last night. If you watched the pre-game show on CBC, I'm sure you didn't miss the cross-border invasion.

    I found it a very significant message that the U.S. Coast Guard brought Don Cherry and a couple lovelies across the river the night before the new passport regulations came into effect. A veiled indication that there is many ways to cross the border without a Customs booth guarding the crossing. Who better than "Grapes" to be the invader? (I'm sure you would hope he left his passport behind and cannot return;-)


    Glad to hear the soccer tourney went well. Congradulations to Sean and his team.

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  • 94. At 5:16pm on 01 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    detroit - I don't mind Don Cherry as long as he is not talking about the Habs! I did not see the welcome but did notice Ron MacLean and Cherry standing rink side and of course thought of you. Having a Canadian coach who attended McGill in Montreal is not hurting you any! Just thought I would throw that in!
    The border issue is a big concern. I believe the date is the re-negotiated "so-called" agreement, as the US wanted to introduce this much earlier. Did you read the article? US cameras will now be keeping track of Canadians on the Canadian side of the border?!! It is a complete invasion of privacy! I really fear for you guys! - to have a government that considers such a thing acceptable. But... that is just my humble opinion. Change does not appear to have come to America. And we were all so hopeful.

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  • 95. At 5:57pm on 01 Jun 2009, aquarizonagal wrote:

    Good Morning!


    Congratulations to your son and his team. They must be feeling over the moon at their success. Hard work and practice do pay!

    Timely One:

    Thank you for your posts and the links. Thirty years ago, orphanages were almost unknown in Africa because there was always a family member or other person in a village to take children who had lost parents. Now so many die of AIDS that often there are no adults left. One orphanage we support recently took two children who are the only survivors of their entire village. Both children are HIV positive so who knows how much future they will have. It is truly heart breaking.

    I enjoyed your information of Canadian politics. You seem to have very interesting people. You stated that Ignatyev (yes, it is easier) or Ignatieff is a Liberal. Would I understand or interpret this term in the same way as a Canadian? You did not say exactly but I think he is a 'good guy' very accomplished and learned. At the very least he has an interesting family history which should provide some prospective for political life. Russians who have involved themselves in politics and survived, even on the run, can be considered quite strong and resourceful.


    Your solution was one also suggested by the airline. The problem is theft. Packages mailed or shipped get 'lost' or arrive with most of the contents missing. We will be taking risks with the luggage which can also be vulnerable but we know the 'drill' to reduce that happening.

    Dear good watermanaquarius:

    You are mostly so optimistic and positive! However, your admonitions for our safety appear to border on "Do not drink the water. Do not breathe the air and carry a snake bite kit!" I am teasing you a little and I do appreciate your concern. We WILL take sensible precautions but will not be constrained by fear of germs or anything else from doing and enjoying all the facets of this trip. We have both had a good long run at life and while life is precious to us we do not cling. This may be one of our last grand adventures and we intend to enjoy every moment come what may! Thank You!


    Sorry there is no more room in the luggage and your Evil Donald would have to be in quarantine anyway which I doubt he would like. If you really wish to see Africa, there are so many groups who would happily ship you there for free, or nearly so, if you would give them some of your time and expertise. What about the Peace Corp? They actually pay you when your tour is finished. Not a lot, I will admit, but something for your time.

    To all:

    Dasvidanya! Au Revoir! Hasta Luego! Goodbye!

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  • 96. At 6:09pm on 01 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I did read the article about the cameras. How utterly absurd. Wonder where all this money is coming from that we can afford to man and maintain such a ridiculous thing?

    I am sitting here on the other side of the Ironed Lace Curtain warning my Canadian friends to beware! I really think the cameras are there to discover the recipe for the gravy you put on fries;-) Another wonder is; how many cameras have they lined the shores of the Great Lakes with in order to secure our borders from the Canadian hordes? I already know we also have trained squirrels lurking in the forests all along the border. They will tell on you diabolical Canadians. They will be mating with the Canadian squirrels to extend our spy network ever deeper onto the Canadian Shield.

    I don't blame you for being upset with the U.S. for this paranoid behavior.

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  • 97. At 6:52pm on 01 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Should you pop in to check the kitchen one last time do not forget what the great WQ.C Fields had to say-
    "Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake".
    Have a wonderful time

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  • 98. At 7:10pm on 01 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    detroit - "Ironed Lace Curtain" The question is - Who are the ones behind the curtain? Since these are US rules and regulations, I fear it is you! You must have crossed the border recently. Does it not appear to be an armed camp? It is said to be required to keep the riffraff out, but does it not also have the effect of keeping people in? Canada, as I'm sure you know, does not require Americans to have a passport. Is a wall next?
    And a very good question; where is all this money coming from? Is the US not in debt up to (over!) its eyeballs?

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  • 99. At 7:30pm on 01 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I was over a couple weeks ago. We are the ones behind the curtain.

    This does not have an affect on me (other than the disgust I have for the new rules) since I carry my passport with me all the time. If I get the urge for fish and chips while out and about, I don't have to return home for my passport.

    As noted in the article; most Yanks do not have a passport. This will keep many locals from crossing the border for a night out in Windsor. Younger people in particular, who like to go "clubbing" over in Windsor.

    My son and some friends went over to Windsor a couple weeks ago. One of the young women did not have an "official" birth certificate with her, and her drivers license was a temporary license while her new license came through the mail. She went into a panic when U.S. Customs sent the entire party over to Immigrations. The U.S. officials were being their usual, intimidating selves. Fortunately, Aaron was the driver of the car and was able to move things smoothly through the process. Everyone was able to re-enter the States.

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  • 100. At 7:45pm on 01 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Have survived babysitting the twins. Whew.

    Almost as soon as I arrived home I received another debt collection call meant for my downstairs neighbor, who has an unlisted number. No one can or will really explain to me how these people are getting my phone number and if there is anything I can do to make it stop. It really disgusts me to be getting these calls, that my phone number is listed on her deadbeat accounts. Not only has this woman harassed me by calling the police for no reason (and the police are sick of her) but I am harassed by her creditors as well. When it first started I called the state attorney general's office only to be informed that there is no law preventing the neighbor's creditors from harassing me. And the people doing the calling are never surprised when informed the person they are asking for is my neighbor so this must happen a lot.

    Does anyone know what is going on here?

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  • 101. At 8:20pm on 01 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Contact your state Public Utilities Service Commission (should find them in the phone book). Ask them how to contact the Annoyance Call Bureau. This might also be obtained from contacting your telephone service provider customer service department. Keep a record of time of day each call is received; name and telephone number of the company calling; name (or ID number) of person making the call. Get as much of this information as possible. Ask the caller to hold for a moment; lay down the receiver and don't hang up until the phone off the hook alarm signals that they have hung up from the call. Collectors are monitored for the number of calls they make per day. This will slow them down and they may choose to stop calling you.

    You can have some fun with them. Ignore their every question. Tell them all about the antics of Evil D, or the price of tea in China. Act a little goofy. See if you can get a date with the caller (don't let gender be a problem). Ask them for a recipe to make dog soup.

    Vote for a new state Attorney General.

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  • 102. At 9:35pm on 01 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - Is there not some law against harassment in general? Please do not tell me these calls are covered by the collection agency's First Amendment rights! Is there any way of finding out her phone number? I believe I asked this before.
    It does not sound as if these agencies are sharing information or they would have deleted your number by now. So perhaps detroit's advice is the best, leave the phone off the hook with them on it! Maybe you could blow a whistle in their ear before doing so. Might make you feel better. Say, "Wait just a minute," blow the whistle, put the receiver down!

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  • 103. At 10:02pm on 01 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius, thanks for the advice. The problem is that I can't get these callers to give me any information about themselves at all, other than admitting that they are in fact debt collectors. I don't have caller ID. Each time, I ask the caller how they got my phone number and they claim not to know, say it was just "on the account." Each time, they say they will remove my number and won't be calling me again, but because they refuse to give me any information I have no way of knowing if it is a different agency each time or the same one. Most of them won't even admit to doing a street address check to come up with my phone number.

    I have a stellar credit rating and have been very careful over the years to keep it so, and yet find myself harassed over a stranger's bad debts. It's mind-boggling. And my landlords feel they don't have the right to give me her unlisted number! If I had it I would gladly give it out to every person who calls asking for her.

    timewaits, since I have no way of finding out who these callers are, I can't report them for harassing me! Can you believe this? I'm thinking of just cancelling my land line service since I have a cell phone. But then my neighbor's bad debts would be causing me a different inconvenience.

    This is very demoralizing.

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  • 104. At 10:39pm on 01 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - Have you tried giving them your landlord's number!! Tell them you will give them a number where she can be reached if they give you their name, agency and phone number.
    Do they know your name or just ask for her?

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  • 105. At 11:01pm on 01 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits -

    What an excellent idea! I had not thought of that. My landlords are nice people and I don't like to hassle them but I am a very good tenant and should not have to suffer because of another of their tenants. I think what I'll do is tell them that if they can't give me her phone number, I'll refer the collectors to them. And I'll also follow your suggestion about trying to get information from the collectors.

    If they know my name they give no indication of it. They ask for her as if they think it's her residence they've reached (but are never surprised to find out it's not).

    Also, I might talk to my buddy the police chief and see what ideas he might have. He is not afraid of her (well, not much anyway), as my landlords seem to be. And the laws in this state make it impossible for them to evict her.

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  • 106. At 11:31pm on 01 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - Glad I could help. Tell the agency you will call them with a number where she can be reached (either your landlord's or hers). So what's theirs? And "no" you do not want them calling back, you will call them. (To confirm they are giving you accurate information.) Another idea. How about asking your phone company if they have a service to block harassment calls from an unidentified caller? (No need to mention the collection agency.)

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  • 107. At 11:40pm on 01 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    You can still get in contact with your state Public Utilities Service Commission and your telephone service provider. Once again; keep a log of the date and time of call when you get the calls in the mean time. Do not blow whistles, nor be rude. Do not give any additional information, because when you do that they will consider you as a source for even further information.

    That is exactly the advice I would have given you had you called me when I was a Residence Telephone Customer Service Representative for the major telephone company. Then I would have called our Annoyance Calls Bureau, talked with the representative and live transferred you to that person. Standard operating procedure for many successful years of helping people with your very complaint.

    [Alternate Plan A]

    Have some fun! Talk about something inane that you can rattle on about forever. Keep them on the telephone with this as long as you can.

    Personnally, with this type of call, I would tell them I'm picking my nose, then describe in minute detail the gold I dug out of my nose mine. Ask lots of questions, but do not give them a chance to answer the question. If they do not hang up, tell them how much you like talking with someone and press them to call back so you can talk with them again. Try to get a date with them.

    I once spent a very entertaining 20 minutes with a completely frustrated and bewildered caller telling them about a worm my (imaginary) dog just passed on my shoe as we were talking; asking questions about what I should do with it, but not letting them answer as I continued on with a string of questions (what ever came to mind) as if they were not there.

    The calls stopped. Do not give them ANY information they seek. You will remain a source. They are trying to break you. Do be wacky, inane, absurd. Waste their valuable time as long as you can.

    Believe me. They WILL put you on their "Do not call list".

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  • 108. At 11:41pm on 01 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    aquagal -- schatslivy doroga!

    bere -- you live above this woman? Ha! You've got the power!! Get a treadmill. Or take dance lessons (Flamenco is cool, lots of stomping in high heeled shoes).

    timewaits and publius -- this border thing!!! It's been a hassle for quite a while now. I got a Nexus card thinking it would help, but really it's the same baloney. Our boat is moored at Point Roberts Wa. This oddball bit of political geography is accessible by land only through Canada (don't tell anyone, but I regularly walk down the beach from Boundary Bay across the border to Lily Point, which is an incredibly beautiful place).

    The geographical isolation notwithstanding, there is a full metal jacket border control point going both ways. The US just spent a small fortune upgrading security on their side, with under-vehicle cameras, explosives detectors, and the like being installed.

    Residents and businesses on both sides have complained about the growing hassles and lineups (I was called in for a full vehicle search twice in one week!) all to no avail. The officials nod and babble. They are under pressures to maintain certain standards, they are short-staffed, etc. So businesses on the US side particularly will suffer. The marina where we moor, for example, has lost more than a few customers. This in spite of the fact that in most places along this border you need only hop a backyard fence, or step across a drainage ditch, or, as I mentioned, walk down the beach, to cross the line!

    Still, the most absurd experience in crossing this strange piece of border came when we sailed from Point Roberts back to Vancouver Harbour. We called in, and waited 45 minutes at the unmanned customs dock, during which, had we a mind to, we could have unloaded enough drugs to, uh, sink a ship.

    Of course how we could have got the contraband aboard, seeing as we crossed from Canada into Point Roberts, and then came back up to Vancouver, would have been just a little tricky. But no matter, I suppose it could be possible. And in the unlikely event of the next to impossible, our valiant customs agents, five of them, plus a sniffer dog, arrived to secure our vulnerable shores. Our tax dollars in action.

    This encounter ended amiably, but there are more and more cases of people being violently assaulted by customs agents for the smallest of provocations. This case is extreme, but the vibe I get off the border patrol types these days, on both sides, is downright scary.


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  • 109. At 00:21am on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    chrono -

    That border incident you linked to is terrible. I hadn't heard about it before. My experience crossing the border has always been that the Canadians are polite and friendly while the American guards are gruff and sometimes downright nasty. Even when I was held at the border entering Canada for two hours on suspicion of trying to move to Canada (because I had no job in the U.S. and they thought I had all my worldly belongings stuffed into my old VW Bug), the guards were very nice about it. It was actually quite fun.

    One of these days I might take a drive up to Derby Line/Stanstead just to see what they've done about the street where it's Quebec on one side of the street and Vermont on the other. I once accidentally drove into Quebec without realizing it until I noticed the signs were in French.

    As for punishing my neighbor, I sometimes practice Appalachian flat-footing on the wood floor after she has been particularly noisy stomping up the stairs and slamming her door (which has sleigh bells hanging on it!) several times (which shakes the whole building). Or I might pick up my six-inch thick dictionary and drop it several times. But I doubt she has any idea that her creditors are calling me. I may post a notice declaring this on the house door. That is sure to bring the police as it did when I posted a small notice next to my staircase letting my visitors know that all the tacky stuff she had hanging in the communal hallway was not mine (that little problem has been taken care of).

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  • 110. At 00:26am on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    107, publius -

    I doubt it would do any good to call my telephone service provider; they are having enough trouble just providing telephone and internet service apparently, and are in deep trouble with whoever regulates them. It took three months to get a service removed from my account, but they were at least very nice about it and gave me a credit back to when I had first called to change the service. All sorts of bad things have been happening to people who use their email service (I don't). They bought up everything from Verizon and then screwed it all up when they finally switched everything over.

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  • 111. At 00:30am on 02 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Pinko, pay peanuts, get gorillas. It's the same the world over. Two of my school friends joined the metropolitan police in 1980. Neither were very bright, nor very public service oriented. Both liked a scrap, though.

    Bere, you seem to have a good number of helpful suggestions as to how to stop your nuisance calls. Go for the option that seems most fun!

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  • 112. At 00:35am on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Peche Island (Windsor) in the Detroit River is just across the shipping channel from Belle Isle (Detroit). Peche has a natural, shallow anchorage out of the current that is just right for scrubbing bottom on the sailboat. We anchor and kedge there; get the grill going on the beach; scrub bottom; have a beer and grill some hot dogs before going back to our slip on the U.S. side. We aren't the only boaters that use the harbor with a stars and stripes ensign on the mast.

    Lake St. Clair is one of the busiest recreational boating waters in the U.S. There is no way any agency can keep track of all the boats on that body of water during a hot summer day. Every year, on the first hot day, hundreds of boaters from both sides of the border "raft" together around Gull Island (U.S.) just below the St. Clair River.

    The police, U.S., and Canadian Coast Guard have given up trying to break-up the party. I doubt that anyone calls in their border crossing. It's an improptue party. The U.S. Government has posted the island, placed police on the island, done everything they can think of to stop the annual party. Finally, they have just given up, and stand by to give assistance to anyone in need.

    Border security is just as ridiculous as Prohibition and the ongoing drug war. Costly and ineffective.

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  • 113. At 00:46am on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa, yes all the suggestions are good. My daughter called and I consulted her and she agrees with timewaits (although she doesn't know who she is agreeing with!) about giving the callers the landlords' number and said, further, that since lunaticwoman's non-payment of her debts has absolutely nothing to do with me but may be of concern to the landlords (as in, is she going to keep paying her rent), it is only fair to shift the burden onto them and perhaps give them some ammunition to help get her evicted. And also might help them keep as a tenant the person they have called their "perfect" tenant (ME!). They really don't want me to move as it's hard to find tenants who even pay the rent on time, as I never fail to do.

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  • 114. At 01:16am on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Giving your landlord's number will not stop the calls to you, only get you on the list that will show you have information to give them. The only thing you will have accomplished is spreading the harrassing calls to include your landlord. (The landlord may put you on another list)

    As someone who had done skip-tracing and developed techniques to find people, I strongly suggest you DO NOT GIVE ANY INFORMATION.

    Here is the thinking that goes behind what I am telling you: "If she knows this much information, she knows more. Keep hammering. She will give more information."

    The collection company got your number through a "telephone number by address" directory they purchased. They probably already have the landlord's number. This type of directory lists all telephone numbers by each address unless the telephone is a "non-published" telephone number. It is available for purchase to everyone. One can also purchase an automatic update package that gives new numbers within a month to 3 months of installation. These directories are also available at most, larger libraries. If I so desired, I can go to the Detroit Public Library and get the listed telephone numbers in your apartment building.

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  • 115. At 01:23am on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I had a link in my Ref 112 that went to the mods. It was aerial photos of Gull Island in the delta island flats at the mouth of St. Clair River. They hold an annual "Nooner" party on the U.S. island that attracts boaters from both sides of the border.

    The U.S. authorities have tried to shut this party down for 30 or so years without the least success. Hundreds upon hundreds of boats raft and anchor around the island on this day. There are probably as many Canadians as Yanks. I am certain that they haven't called into Customs. It's often an improptue affair.

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  • 116. At 01:43am on 02 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    All - I do not know if US citizens who do not live near the Canadian border have any idea as to what is happening. This is going to affect people on both sides. As I said, the US border is starting to look like an armed camp. Our hope for the Canadian side lies here! They closed the Mercier, a major bridge onto the Island of Montreal for months during the Oka Crisis. It affected me and I had to drives miles out of my way, but I did so without criticizing the Mohawks. The Mayor of Oka - different story!

    detroit - Encourage your Nation to mobilize!

    chrono - Have you ever heard of this man?? Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan. I haven't. The title just makes me think of Stockwell Day, but please don't make me remember the wet suit!!! Did you see the clip with Rick Mercer helping Ignatieff to move? I posted it above.

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  • 117. At 02:00am on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    114, publius -

    I understand what you're saying, but what I want from the landlords is the neighbor's phone number so I can give it to these debt collectors, and I thought that if I tell them I'm going to give out their number, they might cave and give me her number.

    Maybe you can explain this to me: The person who called today admitted that they have her listed as Apt. 2. So if they have this directory you're talking about, wouldn't it show me as Apt. 3, with my phone number? My phone number would not be listed under Apt. 2. So why on earth are they calling me and asking for her? What the hell is the point of this?

    And how could you go to the public library and find out the phone numbers in my apartment building if you don't know what the address is? Or do you? This is spooky.

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  • 118. At 03:00am on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Bere-You just gave me your apartment number! The slightest, incidental, tid-bit of information to you is a beacon in the desert on a crystal clear night to me. I've not only been trained to do this; I developed even better techniques for doing this. That's why I was payed the big bucks. I was very, very good at finding people.

    I have found an ex-Navy Seal dressed in tiger stripe camoflage in the middle of a twenty acre field of burnt out houses and thigh-high grass concealed in a "spider-hole" with only the very end of his rifle barrel exposed while his gun-sights were trained on me and his wife the entire time I followed his very well hidden track. This Navy Seal spent 6 or 7 years in North Vietnam rescuing downed Navy pilots without ever being captured. He lived in the jungles of North Vietnam almost all that time.

    Please do not be alarmed with me. I'm like a beagle in a vast meadow picking up signs and following them. Also, as I have stated before, I only use my powers for good; never evil. I will never show up on your doorstep without a clear and direct invitation, nor tell anybody what I know. If you remember, Timewaitsfornoman and you were spurring me on to locate seanspa. I had even less information regarding his location than you have given out over the time I've been on this blog. Timewaitsfornoman intentionally gave me a few crumbs, I know where her summer home is located.

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  • 119. At 03:13am on 02 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    timewaits -- the Akwesasne is a strange nether world. They don't recognise the authority of the US or Canadian border guards (the territory predates the Revolution -- and so to them, the border division is irrelevant).

    I rode through there last fall (on the way to Maine, probably through bere's town) and noticed a lot of signs saying, in effect, that the only "terrorists" to be concerned with were the US Border Patrol. That's their sentiment, not mine. All I know is that it is a complex issue. Smuggling, cigarettes, casinos, money. Toxic brew.

    Van LOOOOON -- I guess since the US got "Homeland Security," we had to have "Public Safety." Used to be Gov. House Leader, and expert at cheap shot mud slinging. One of Harper's inner circle.


    PS -- Pub, that is some party, the Nooner, I mean. No wonder they blocked your link!

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  • 120. At 03:24am on 02 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    Ok, pub, I gotta ask -- what were you doing following the tracks of an armed ex-Seal?


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  • 121. At 03:32am on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I've only heard stories about those parties. A nice boy like me would never skip work and go to such a thing as that.

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  • 122. At 03:33am on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    118, publius -

    So - you know where my doorstep is? Ha, I dare you to show up on it!

    I realized, belatedly, some kitchens back, that any idiot, even me, could easily find my town by googling something I had mentioned.

    But I fail to see how Apt. 3 is such a big clue. Good grief, my daughter lives in Apt. 3 somewhere in the Boston area and my son lives in Apt. 3 somewhere in the New York City area. Millions of people live in Apts. 3.

    Do you actually know the address of timewaits' summer home? What is it, Lily Pond Road?

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  • 123. At 03:33am on 02 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    I see that Justin is pleased with himself for getting an interview with Obama. Sean got a letter from the president today, telling him that he will be a great american leader. To be fair though, most of the 8th graders in the school got the same letter. I rather suspect that most of the 8th graders in the country got the same letter. But they didn't all get a cheque for $100 from a local bank for perfect attendance. Lucky boy, I just get the bills.

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  • 124. At 04:00am on 02 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    chrono - I'm still trying to figure out how you got from Ottawa to Maine. Did you cross at Cornwall and take Route 11? To 87, ferry across Lake Champlain to 89? Oh, maybe you're the guy that stopped bere to ask the way to Old Orchard!! Were you speaking with a French accent and acting rude? If so, you owe bere an apology!!

    bere! - I found the guy!!

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  • 125. At 04:04am on 02 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    Publius -- uh huh . . .

    Even in the midst of all those boobies and beer, I saw some depressing posts on one of the sites. Detroit engineers lamenting the passing of the good old days, when you could take off for a nooner. One of the old guys was answering a question by a young guy of the "how do I make a living in this business" sort, and the answer was -- you can't.

    It was dated 2007.


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  • 126. At 04:10am on 02 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - Well isn't that nice. I am supposing the bank would like him to "bank" it with them!! And now on top of all his other skills Obama is a fortune teller. How does it feel to be the father of a future Great leader? Your future should be secure.

    bere - "Lily Pond Road" Wouldn't you be surprised if it was!! detroit does have enough information to learn the address. If he has not worked it out, I am certainly not telling him how! I've worked it out!

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  • 127. At 04:14am on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    I dunno, timewaits, from that picture chrono showed us he seems to be fair and the rude French guy was dark-haired. Funny that I remember that. I never forget rudeness!

    But we can pretend it was chrono and he can apologize and then I'll forget it.

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  • 128. At 04:20am on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    I just heard that Justin's full interview with Obama will be broadcast at midnight here and I've love to hear it but don't think I can stay awake much longer.

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  • 129. At 04:22am on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    My neighbor suffered from sever PTSD. He would have flash-backs and "go on a mission". His wife knew of my tracking skills and would come get me to find him before he did something bad. I did this for them more than once. Each "spider-hole" was in a new area. Detroit has all too many such landscapes for him to choose from; he could hump for miles without a soul seeing him. He had visited Hanoi many times. We had to locate his new "digs"; come up within a few feet of him, and talk him off his "mission"; all this while having a fully loaded AK-47 trained on us with a round in the barrel.

    He admired my skills. It became a game. Each time became a little harder. Eventually I was invited to join in with a group of ex-special forces vets who met and played live war games together to keep their skills honed. I was the NDN scout.


    Timewaitsfornoman's summer house is located in Quebec. On the water:-)

    The thing is, you fail to appreciate the apartment number is just another piece in the jig-saw puzzle. If you ever invite me to visit, I'll buy us some beer across the street so it will be good and cold when I arrive at your door. The luggage on the scooter is too small to carry a cooler.

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  • 130. At 04:31am on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    The Detroit engineer was prophetic, eh. They ain't-a making money now.

    I would not go to one now. Even if I were 25 and wild. They are WAY out-of-control. I'm surprised there aren't bodies washing up on shore after one of those parties.

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  • 131. At 05:06am on 02 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    Sorry gals (ladies? womens?) but it wasn't me (that should keep you awake).

    How I got to Maine is a bit of a mystery to me. A snakes wedding of the smallest roads that seemed paved (or sort of paved).

    Yes, across the line at Cornwall, Rt. 11 but no ferries. Up to Rousses Point and across through Enosburg, Jay, Troy, Newport, Derby Centre, through some beautiful country through a town beside a lake with a very good coffee shop (Morgan?), then it all gets really hazy till I arrive in Berlin. But that's New Hampshire, already.


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  • 132. At 09:21am on 02 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    This is an interesting, rather odd story. Gordon Brown has been voted in to represent only his own constituency, but continues to insist that he alone represents the country. Democracy, what democracy!

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  • 133. At 2:04pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    129, publius -

    I think you're bluffing! And if you mean buying beer across the street literally, you've got it wrong. I don't see how you could find someone's street address without knowing their name, and if you tell me you know my name I'm not going to believe you!

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  • 134. At 2:05pm on 02 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - Yes, I read it, very odd story. I am quite confident that if the Queen or any member of the Royal Family wished to attend the ceremonies, a way would have been found. Quiet diplomacy; if it was an oversight on the part of the French. I do not believe Buckingham Palace needs the White House to secure an invitation nor, since the 6th is Saturday, do I think the Queen will up and rush over to France.
    "Gordon Brown said the event was intended for prime ministers and presidents, rather than royals." How many royals are there? The Queen of Great Britain, the Queen of Canada (believe she is the same person). King/Queen of France? US?
    Stephen Harper says the same, to be met with a resounding chorus of, "No you don't!"

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  • 135. At 2:27pm on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    It does seem odd that the Queen has not been invited, as head of state, to be present at the ceremonies that commerate an historic event where men died for "King and Country". I wonder how the British and Commonwealth D-Day veterans feel about Her Majesty not being invited to the ceremonies? It is a commeration of their courage and sacrifice. These veterans are now quite old, and symbols have strong meanings to them.

    My Father served in the U.S. Marine Corps during WWII. He has always been proud to be a Marine, but never wore anything that showed he was a Marine until a couple weeks ago when the children of a second cousin whose own child is an active-duty Marine, gave my Father a "Devil Dog" baseball cap with USMC emblazoned in large letters. He has been wearing it ever since with a great deal of pride. He remarked to me last weekend how good it makes him feel to have fellow Marines greet him with "Semper Fi" when they see him wearing his cap.

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  • 136. At 2:54pm on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Bere54 is the only name I know you by. What's in a name?

    I may very well be wrong about there being a place across the street where I can buy beer. I guess I'll just have to have a cup of coffee and a donut and think about it.

    The whole point I am making is that no matter how careful we think we are about protecting our identity there are trails that we leave behind us everyday. These trails lead the trained eye right to our door.

    The collection company(s) that bother you must not be very good at what they do. The same cold trail continues to be followed at a considerable expense without producing results. At some point they start losing money spent to collect the debt. That is why I say to get rid of them, hit them in the pocketbook. Waste their time. They will take you off their call list.

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  • 137. At 3:08pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius -

    I'll try the time-wasting thing next time and see what happens.

    I know of course I'm dropping another hint here, but there is no donut shop across the street either. In fact, there are no shops across the street at all, as I live on a tiny dead-end side street. Of which there a lot in this town!

    I'm assuming you know the town (village as it is called here).

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  • 138. At 3:23pm on 02 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Now it appears Prince Charles will attend.
    I have mentioned before, I attended the 59th celebration (the opening of the Juno Beach Centre - the royals were not in attendance) and it was one of the most significant experiences of my life. I so enjoyed that trip! I also attended the Trooping of the Colour with the Queen Mother in Montreal. That also was a special ceremony. She was well in her eighties and standing in the back of an open car as it circled the stadium. She was about to sit down when she noticed a section of Vets standing at attention and remained on her feet to honour them. It brings tears to my eyes to think about it! Extremely moving. The stadium was filled with the love they had for each other. Those men would have put their lives on the line to protect her - right then and there.

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  • 139. At 3:46pm on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Okay. Fair enough. For one thing, I ate my donut. Now it's time that I go outside and mow the lawn before it starts raining.

    It's been a cool, wet spring here in Detroit. When we get a dry, sunny day or two I tend to put off mowing to go play in the sun; then another rainy front moves in for a couple days and the grass jumps up to the sky. So as the old saying goes; I better make hay while the sun shines.

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  • 140. At 3:52pm on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Hurrah for the Prince! Gordon Brown is wrong. This is not a ceremony for Prime Ministers and Presidents; it's for those who served and those who died on the beaches.

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  • 141. At 3:58pm on 02 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    detroit - I agree with you about wasting their time but bere's problem is that she does not know how many agencies are calling or how many have her number. I'm sure she has better things to do than engage them all in lengthy conversation. Saying, "Wait just a moment," leaving the phone off the hook and then going to do the laundry, might be an option.
    I thought trying to get their number and then handing it out to the next caller as a lead, could be amusing!
    You are right, they cannot be very good at their jobs. Or it is being handed to underlings for training purposes. Lucky bere!

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  • 142. At 4:57pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits, perhaps I'm wrong about this but it seems a bit offensive that the White House would think it is its place to lobby for anything on behalf of the Queen. And in that other article, did they really mean to say that the French government was worried that the Queen would upstage Obama? I don't think Obama would expect to be the "Queen Bee" at such an international memorial celebration, and if he did that would be the height of conceit.

    publius, I hope you've been a good boy and cut the darned grass. But you didn't confirm that you know what village I live in and now I'm consumed with curiosity to know the truth.

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  • 143. At 5:22pm on 02 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:


    If you respond to Bere's challenge, please do so in a way that will provide the answer only to her, and not to the rest of the readership. That, in itself might take some thinking. A worthy, cryptic challenge.

    Saw some good hockey over the weekend. High percentage of inelegant goals. Bizarre major penalties at the end of game 2. What was Malkin thinking? Then again, Zetterberg and Lidstrom have kept Crosby pointless, and maybe that's wearing a bit thin on them.

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  • 144. At 5:25pm on 02 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - Here's an idea; maybe you could tell them she died! Then start weeping! Blubbering on about what a great neighbour she was!!! On and on about little acts of kindness she performed, looked after your cat, etc., making them desperate to get off the phone!! I think that's my best one yet!

    142 - I agree. The Queen is completely capable of speaking on her own behalf. (Or have one of her underlings do it.) Both of them being there might pose a bit of a problem for the French. British Royalty would be at the "British beaches" and Obama at the "US." So, where should the French be; running back and forth? Unless they organized a joint ceremony, which is a little late now.
    Maybe Obama just wants to see the Queen again!

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  • 145. At 5:50pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    143, IF -

    The real challenge for publius is to be cryptic enough so others will not understand but not so cryptic that I can't understand, which really is a challenge because I can be pretty dense! I suspect timewaits has figured it out by my unintentional hints.

    144, timewaits -

    I really like that idea too, though not sure I could summon up the blubbering part. I'm not a very good actress! For some reason, after my husband died he started getting a lot of sales calls (I wondered if the funeral home had sold its client list!). I would say bluntly, "No, you cannot talk to him. He's dead!" Boy, did they hang up quickly.

    I do think Obama has a crush on the Queen, so that could be the motivation. And now all he gets is Prince Charles!

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  • 146. At 6:19pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Interestedforeigner -

    Thanks for mentioning on the other thread that Justin has posted the entire interview. The BBC only aired snippets last night. I thought it was excellent -- Justin Webb asked good questions, was not obsequious, and anyone who still wants to insist that Obama can't speak well without a teleprompter is just being ridiculous. And I noticed that Justin was shown from his left side, as I suggested he should be after his last interview. Was this just a coincidence?

    I also notice happylaze is back on the other thread.

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  • 147. At 7:39pm on 02 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    145 bere - Well, there you go! Do the same thing! (To uphold your honesty say under your breath, "to me.")

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  • 148. At 7:40pm on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Lawn is mowed and time for a break. Yes. I know the village. I am in agreement with InterestedForeigner about being cryptic. Just haven't had a moment to think about how I can clue you in without telling all.

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  • 149. At 7:46pm on 02 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    I have seen Obama look hesitant without a teleprompter - even Biden has made a crack about it. However, in Justin's interview he came across very well. Thoughtful and prepared.Well done, prez. Justin may get more chances if he helps Obama look good. His place on the plane seems assured.

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  • 150. At 8:08pm on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Shut down Malkin and Crosby, the Penquins have no depth. Detroit is essentially playing 4 on 4 hockey when either of them are on the ice and can do that all night because of their depth.

    It's interesting that Malkin will play tonight after the penalties at the end of the last game. Stanley Cup finals are a whole different breed of hockey.

    If Detroit wins this game tonight at Pittsburg I can see a sweep of the series.

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  • 151. At 8:14pm on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    If you go for a copy of the NYT crossword puzzle tomorrow, you should notice that there will be no laughing matter that evening.

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  • 152. At 9:23pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius -

    Oh my god, that's the First Wednesday topic! You did it! What is truly amazing is that not only is that extremely cryptic but that I was able to figure it out. I am astonished.

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  • 153. At 9:29pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    And I didn't give anything away because if anyone googles that, millions of inapplicable things come up.

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  • 154. At 9:47pm on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    It looks like a nice village.

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  • 155. At 9:54pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius -

    Yes, well, we've got some unique stuff in our village. Have you read about our claim to fame? Museums all over the country covet it but we're not selling or lending.

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  • 156. At 10:15pm on 02 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Your village has three works by the same artist I would find interesting.

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  • 157. At 10:28pm on 02 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    pub, bere -- but what's with the visual humour bit? (Did I get it right, huh, huh ... I love a good puzzle).


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  • 158. At 10:37pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius -

    I am not all that knowledgeable about most of works and the artists, just with the big one that cannot be safely moved, no matter how many "experts" try to convince the board that funds should be raised for the gallery by "renting" it to other museums. And even villagers who have never set eyes on it would have a fit if it left town. It belongs to us. I have a (small) print in my turret.

    Are there two other paintings by him or are you referring to a different artist? I thought there was only the one.

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  • 159. At 10:47pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    chrono, you must have already figured it out, otherwise you would never have been able to understand the cryptic clue. No fair! Did you by any chance google something I mentioned many threads ago? Or - maybe you really are the rude French-accented man looking for Old Orchard! Despite your song "It Wasn't Me" (which to be grammatically correct should be "It Was Not I" but I won't quibble).

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  • 160. At 10:53pm on 02 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Do the ambassadors like ferrero rocher?

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  • 161. At 11:00pm on 02 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    bere -- obviously I have powers of perception beyond those of mere mortals ... except pub, of course!

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  • 162. At 11:34pm on 02 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius, you have educated me about my own village. I looked it up and there are in fact three paintings by him.

    chrono, I wish you would just tell me how you did it! Cryptically of course. I don't believe in superhuman powers. And I don't know what's with the visual humor and will probably never find out because I'm not going.

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  • 163. At 01:01am on 03 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    bere -- allusions to your royal blood were most helpful.


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  • 164. At 01:41am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    chrono -

    I must be particularly dense tonight. All I can think of is Queen Bee and I hardly think that gives a clue to my village.

    Love your comments on the new thread. The video was especially good.

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  • 165. At 02:08am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    memo to self. Don't refer to a tv commercial when post is aimed at bere.

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  • 166. At 02:15am on 03 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - I remember you called Evil D a Count, but I don't think that's helpful! If I am correct, have been there numerous times although I can't think why? Asked M, he thought we stopped there years ago needing a muffler!! Obviously were driving by, we didn't come all the way from Montreal to look for one!

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  • 167. At 02:34am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa -

    Did something just go whizzing over my head?

    timewaits -

    We have the best mufflers in the world; I don't know why you wouldn't come all the way here for one.

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  • 168. At 02:48am on 03 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    Ok, so when the weather gets better I have promised myself I will not sit and post all night. I was gonna ride out to the cottage and split wood (don't laugh, I'm serious -- who needs a gym!) but it is just too bloody cold. But this posting thing is fun.

    bere -- the royalty bit. Let's see, has to do with the Kindom where you live.

    seanspa -- whoooosh (making gesture of object speeding over head). I missed the ambassadorial reference too. Do you do acrostic puzzles or some such?


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  • 169. At 02:50am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, more likely me barking up the wrong tree. You mean barney can't wear his dog collar?

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  • 170. At 02:57am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    pinko, I refer you to my answer to bere. I thought I'd found the same humour reference you found, and picked something else on the site about that town. Ambassadors rather than chocolate, but couldn't resist the obvious link to bere's favourite food. If it makes no sense to either of you, I'm just a DA. Is an MA an advanced DA?

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  • 171. At 03:00am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    chrono, the Kingdom comprises three counties with scads of little villages. So how come you know which village? I do acrostic puzzles and know nothing of ambassadorial ferraris or whatever.

    timewaits, now that publius knows where we both live, I do expect him to come pick me up on the scooter and take me to your summer house. Evil D can go stay at Camp Kitty Paunchaway, which is actually the guest room of some friends who specialize in helping cats lose weight while their people are away. He stayed there for a week last summer and at least didn't gain any weight.

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  • 172. At 03:01am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:


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  • 173. At 03:21am on 03 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - I was convinced that was why you were baiting him. How could he come to get you if he didn't know where you lived. As happy would say, a cunning plan!
    seanspa means Bonnie! although I don't know why. Dog collar = Priest?

    Went to the Library today and now have in my possession three books by Georgette Heyer - two Uniform and one Detective. I look forward to reading them. Plus Penelopiad by Margaret Atwood, recommended by chrono.

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  • 174. At 03:24am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, sorry, bonnie to americans.

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  • 175. At 03:54am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Sorry, I don't understand Bonnie either. I'm completely lost here. Everyone's being too cryptic for my poor brain.

    Was I baiting publius? I didn't mean to be; just having fun. Like chrono.

    timewaits, I hope you like the Heyers, but what do you mean by Uniform?

    Maybe my not understanding anything means it's time to go to bed.

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  • 176. At 04:00am on 03 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - On the back of two of the books is a list entitled, The Uniform Edition, with about 30 titles. I think I will start with "Simon the Coldheart" since the Foreword by her son states, "With the exception of a female living in California who, for reasons which were somewhat obscurely expressed, considered that all her works should be publicly burned by the hangman..."
    Why the hangman would be in the business of burning books she did not make clear!

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  • 177. At 04:02am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, barney (the way I say it sounds like bonnie to americans) is the name of my dog.

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  • 178. At 04:05am on 03 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    The mother, uh, father, of all acrostics?

    And a good Hebrew tune.

    Out to walk the dog.

    Shalom, salaam, peace ...

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  • 179. At 04:06am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    timewaits, I don't believe I have a cold heart. Must be someone else.

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  • 180. At 04:08am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits, I think you have one of the historical, real people books. I haven't read any of those. Heyer was extremely prolific, writing "romances," historical fiction, and detective novels. I wonder if the historical ones are as funny as the others. It does seem strange that a hangman would be responsible for burning books. Doesn't sound like it would be in his job description. I don't think I like that female living in California!

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  • 181. At 04:12am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa -

    Okaaaay. Now I remember previous discussion of your dog Barney pronounced Bonnie. However, this clears nothing up for me. Barney? Chocolate? Dog collars? Humor? This led to your knowing what village I live in? Now lots of things are whizzing over my head. Crashing into the walls. Confusing me no end.

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  • 182. At 04:22am on 03 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    I feel so used:-{ I'm just Bere's little pull toy:-{

    Alas, my heart is twice broke this night. First, my beloved Wings go down in flames; then I come home to the kitchen to find I'm a boy toy for royalty.


    Okay. I'm over it now. LOL


    Why do you have Barney wearing a Priest's collar? Cryptology in three cultures. This is all too confusing.

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  • 183. At 04:29am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, then I am indeed on the wrong track. Must try harder tomorrow.

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  • 184. At 04:29am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa, your name is Simon?

    And chrono is pretending to be Ed.

    And rapping Jews are so weird.

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  • 185. At 04:33am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, you are more right than I am. I also noticed the pink ed. Weird indeed.

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  • 186. At 04:37am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius, no, no, you're not a boy toy! I would never do anything to wreck my chance at the the scooter ride. I just didn't want to be "baiting." I thought that was supposed to be a bad thing. So sorry to hear about your Wings.

    But would it be so bad to be a boy toy for the Queen Bee? Do you have to actually be a boy to be a boy toy? I do prefer grown men.

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  • 187. At 04:48am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa, since everyone else seems to know where I live, I'll give you another hint. My village is one of a kind. In the entire world.

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  • 188. At 04:48am on 03 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I don't think there are age qualifications for being a boy toy.

    Do you have the tiara and ermine robes?

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  • 189. At 04:56am on 03 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - Must be, especially since it was written in 1925! (I was thinking more along the lines of William, perhaps some Harry connection!)
    bere and I require some clarification. I have no idea what it all means either. Hershey is in Pennsylvania not Vermont.

    detroit - I heard! Kept asking, "What's the score?" Did they not go down in "Penguins?" I hope you are not referring to my use of the word "baiting?" Perhaps a poor choice. Egging on? Encouraging? Testing? Anyway, I don't think a Toy Boy would be a bad occupation!! Lots of perks, fringe benefits, etc.! Precious little heavy lifting!

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  • 190. At 05:11am on 03 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa re: 181 "Barney pronounced Bonnie" Really it would have been so much easier for all concerned if you had just called your dog Bonnie, when you come to think of it. Why bother with the Barney bit? Only confuses people! You can call him Barney when you go to the UK. How's that?
    Oh! but a thought - what does Bonnie sound like when you say it?

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  • 191. At 05:17am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Boy Toy -

    I am going to wrap myself in my ermine robes right now and repose myself for slumber. The tiara will remain nestled in its bed of rose-colored silk, so I won't get poked in the eye as I dream of the wind ruffling my helmet as I sit with my arms entwined round what I'm sure is your trim waist on our journey to the splendor of Lily Pond Road. Or Peacham Pond.

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  • 192. At 05:20am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    When I show up on bere's doorstep, I'll test out what bonnie sounds like to an american. However, I may be some time.

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  • 193. At 05:27am on 03 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I guess you could say the Wings were trampled under the march of the Penguins.

    It might be difficult to figure out who was baiting, egging on, encouraging...whom:-)

    ...and a good time was had by all.

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  • 194. At 05:29am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    The (clearly wrong) town web site I was reading mentioned having ambassadors walking the streets. It brought to mind an awful tv commercial about a particular brand of chocolate. It also mentioned a doggy church of some kind. Either I was way too cryptic, or way off base. It sounds like the latter. Although I see the town I had in mind had a water main problem recently.

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  • 195. At 05:32am on 03 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Queen Bee-

    I'll make sure the Royal Coat of Arms are well displayed on sides of the helmet so all that we pass will know you are regal.

    Hmmm. Guess I better start doing sit-ups.

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  • 196. At 05:42am on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa -

    Actually, we do have a dog church. Or chapel rather. I'd forgotten about that. It's really stupid. And I think it's the only one in existence, but that's not what I was thinking of when I said we are unique. If we have ambassadors walking the streets, no one told me.

    Boy Toy -

    Don't worry about the sit-ups. What are love-handles for if not to hold onto?

    And now I really am going to bed. Breakfast at the diner and then more babysitting for those twins.

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  • 197. At 05:56am on 03 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, does your town have a really old community band?

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  • 198. At 07:22am on 03 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    Well done.

    Don't know why Malkin was playing tonight. The rule is that if you instigate a fight in the last five minutes of the third period, you're gone for the next game. Seems to me it was in the last minute. Maybe the league uses a different clock? Or maybe the rules have again gone into a distortion in the time-space continuum.

    I missed the interview with the Commissioner. Ron McLean is often criticized for being too soft, too easy-going, not being able to ask hard questions, and so on, but apparently he got under the Commissioner's collar on the subject of franchise relocation. Apparently Ron gave him a good going over, nailed him with the facts on the money situation. And about time, too.

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  • 199. At 1:34pm on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Good morning all. Lovely morning here, but the last few days have started out like this and then turned on me.

    seanspa, yes we do have not only a really old community band but a band made up of really old people, but not just old people because it's an "open" band -- anyone who wants to play in it is allowed to. I listened to it once. Never again.

    Looks like you hit it. Dog church, water main, old band. Well, the latter two could be anywhere, but maybe people are stealing the dog church idea too.

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  • 200. At 2:54pm on 03 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Ron McLean did have a good interview with Gary Bettman. I am not a fan of Bettman, so it was good to see McLean keeping his feet to the fire on a couple of issues. The one most interesting to me was the Phoenix Coyotes status. It sounds like Bettman wants them to stay in Phoenix.

    I still don't like that Bettman waived the Maklin game suspension. Not because it would make things easier for the Wings to have Maklin sitting out a game. I would have supported a game suspension if it was a Wings player. The last minute donnybrook is just the type of thing where some serious injuries can be administered with the intent of side-lining a key player.

    I am enjoying the rough and tumble play of the Stanley finals where the officials keep their whistles in their pockets and let them play. But I think that player safety cannot be ignored completely.

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  • 201. At 3:08pm on 03 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Good morning to you. It's starting out as a nice day here also. Still cool, but sunny. We're supposed to be getting rain again this weekend so I need to get out and do some work on a couple projects.

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  • 202. At 3:58pm on 03 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    morning folk just a quickie to say hi. suspect few posts for a while but noticed the many kind words;) thanks Gary I love you too.

    opps did you hear the mutter from there.

    Bere no offence meant at you , most of my friends believe death is for some not "gods" decision.

    I see this thread is quite mellow now well done. I see the other thread is decending still further into a wallowing pool of hate and bias. So glad we have such freedoms.

    Oh Gary shuould you read this. Way back I slagged off the US. I'll add that you are exactly the reason I hate the USA.
    you think you are open minded and liberal. But you always plumb for the US courts etc. The first nationers are not under the US constitution because they PREDATE the US.
    that is their right despite what laws you too white with the over tighties say.
    You are a popoer of the highest order didn't you defend MA because you said the O ring wouldn't help or was that StDom.

    Yes of course I'll be back occasionally. but I start polite with people and give them a chance to earn my wrath of spitting bullcrud. you don't never have and rarely have the honesty to say much just post a stupid link with no consequence to it nothing that shows your point and really shows those that do understand how little you understand.
    you are truely clue less.

    I have written in as appalling a spelling as possible to show that grammar trolling may be better for you because when it comes to bed fellows you would be untouchable with HIS 15 ft bargepole.

    Time enjoy the summer cottage you know how to get in touch.

    sean you had my intent right.

    So many nasty words in my reply but some nice ones to end with.
    You have good hearts kitchen crew (even if this Pub does seem to have what i would call an overly lax attitude to the rif rafters).

    but I am no pub goer and prefer a smoke so off to do that I am. that is the problem with pubs I always found them full of drunkes and they served no bongs.

    Nice places comfy and welcoming but eventually some shouting drunk in the corner gets in a fight.

    better to go to the garden and have a puff. or go to the woods and dio the same.

    so byeeee be good don't let the racists bite.

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  • 203. At 4:10pm on 03 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Well, it's still a nice day. What a surprise. 62(F), a bit breezy, but the sun continues to shine. I've got to get out to Peacham by noon for babysitting. Four hours of that, and then no more! I've told my co-babysitter that I will hold one twin while she attends to the intake and output of the other. She loves that kind of stuff. I'm just the moral support. The parents have been splitting one full-time teaching job (English) but both have to be at an in-service thing today. On Monday they both had to be at graduation. What I think is interesting about this is that they could do this because the high school is private; I doubt a public school would permit splitting the job.

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  • 204. At 5:46pm on 03 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    happy/jack - So nice to hear from you. I miss you, and your comments about life in America.
    Again - I don't always recognize non blatant racism! I've lived a sheltered life up here in Canada. I'm not as brave as you are or as willing to challenge. Many times after reading a post I've sat here thinking... don't know that I agree with that!! but counted on you to point out the error of their ways. And you rarely disappoint! You have remarkable insight.
    Thank you, perhaps I will and then you can tell me via email. Of course my computer will constantly be binging: You've got mail! Only to read "Tosh!" Speaking of which; No Woman, No Cry, one of my favs. "We would cook cornmeal porridge of which I'll share with you." 'Cuz I know you like it so much!
    You are right as usual, the other thread is Slip Sliding Away.

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  • 205. At 10:28pm on 03 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Bere, Publius, Pinko and Seanspa,
    Just a quick thanks for the paper chase competition I have been avidly following. You all made it too easy.
    With clues and tips involving- straight to Maine and turn right, other side of the river,Appartment 3, French accent, tiny dead end side street, crossroads without croswords:the clincher was nasty neighbours- so I smeared on the Big Balm moisturiser and it came to me in a flash.
    Checking the direct flight possibilities to get to Rodeo Drive while I write.I presume Beverly Hills does have an airport close by?
    Hope you have the tea and biscuits at hand when I arrive.

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  • 206. At 00:50am on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    waterman -

    Actually, that's Bag Balm, so called because it's meant to be put on the bags of cows, and I'm sure there are plenty of those ambling down Rodeo Drive. How it came to be popular for human use, I don't know. Smells nasty, is greasy, does not absorb into the skin, leaves one slick and slimy and did I mention smelly? But it's a quite a fad item. Shall I send you some?

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  • 207. At 01:00am on 04 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    wma -- careful, now. That was no mere paper chase, but t'was a bere hunt. Her Ladyship, should she survive her ordeal by twins, is not likely to be amused!

    Her Imperial Highness Timewaits, Our Lady of River, is likewise apt to frown upon your carelessness.

    Be warned, my learned friend. When roused to anger, the Furies ain't in it ...


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  • 208. At 01:40am on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    This is a sad but beautiful story. I heard it on the CBC on Sunday. The park mentioned is one I know well as my sons played many a soccer game there.
    I hope I remember to tell aqua about it when she returns. If not, would someone please remind me?

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  • 209. At 02:17am on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    waterman - We would love to see you, but may I suggest you deplane in New York and transfer to a flight to Burlington Vermont. bere can pick you up there. Or to Montreal (numerous Lisbon - Montreal flights - choice of airlines. I don't recommend Air Canada, believe chrono will concur) and chrono and I will drive you down. How does that sound?
    seanspa and detroit should probably go directly to Burlington so as not to cross/re-cross the border.
    Not clear why we are gathering at bere's, but while there can check out the gallery and buy bag balm, although it is also manufactured in Quebec.

    chrono - I've been to Rodeo Drive, believe me, once was enough! That is one weird city!

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  • 210. At 02:19am on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits, that really is a beautiful story; thanks for sharing it. And there doesn't seem to have been a problem with the sick mother getting the care she needed even though she was an illegal immigrant. If it had happened here, I suspect she would have been deported, ill as she was.

    chrono, the only thing not to be amused at is that waterman would think I would live on Rodeo Drive! I did survive the ordeal by twins, and the twins' father just called to tell me he will be dropping off homemade goodies tomorrow, as a thank-you gift, and that makes it all worthwhile. I love any food that does not have to be prepared by me.

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  • 211. At 02:28am on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Well, if everybody's going to gather at my place, you'd better bring your own food. I may have mentioned, I don't do food. We can all do Appalachian flat-footing, or Irish step-dancing which is very similar, and maybe that will get rid of the downstairs neighbor.

    No Bag Balm allowed. Too smelly.

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  • 212. At 02:33am on 04 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    timewaits -- great story. Ain't it so that most people, in most circumstances, do the right thing. As individuals, we aren't so bad, homo sapiens I mean. It's when we mob up that things get ugly ...

    I just can't recommend air travel at all. Period. No fun. I used to love to fly. Between the nonsensical security shuffle and the tightfisted frugal reality of the airline business, the joy is gone. If I could figure out a way to do swing it, I'd move to Vancouver and leave only by boat. One of these days ...

    bere -- glad to hear you have survived!


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  • 213. At 03:03am on 04 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    bere -- here's a good folky tune for dancing to evict.

    And while finding that one, I came across another tune (from the same soundtrack) I really like. A pretty cool arrangement of Boccherini here.


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  • 214. At 03:08am on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - Not sure, it was not mentioned in the broadcast. I would think she turned up at the hospital, they took one look at her and she was admitted. Several of my friends are doctors I must try to remember to ask them who picks up the tab in a case like that. If the government does refuse to reimburse, perhaps the doctors work for free, and the hospital covers the costs. I do not know.

    Did you read the Bag Balm story filed under "Quebec?"

    chrono - You must have flown often recently, back and forth (or as a little girl I know says, forth and back), to Vancouver? Makes sense, you have to go forth before you can come back. Thought it was very clever of her.

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  • 215. At 03:26am on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    chrono, thanks for the music. I didn't see the movie but here's a bit of trivia: Some of my son's friends from when he worked on a tall ship were in that movie. They needed real sailors to work the sails, and apparently there aren't that many with tall ship experience. And a couple of weeks ago Son was out with friends when one of them said, "Wow, look at that ship," and Son looked and recognized the ship he had worked on coming into the New York harbor. Went down later and visited with his former captain. I had thought all tall ships look alike but apparently not, since he knew it right off from quite a distance.

    timewaits, yes, I did read the story. Had no idea the smelly stuff is made up your way. Vermonters think it's a Vermont exclusive.

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  • 216. At 03:31am on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    And speaking of the paper chase and gatherings, I was a bit disappointed when I got home from the twins ordeal and found no motorcycle out front and no publiusdetroit waiting on my doorstep. I figure it to be about a 15 hour drive straight through, he would have had just about enough time had he left at 1:00 a.m.

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  • 217. At 03:41am on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - He's not going to do that. Remember his "surprise the girlfriend" story, with all its twists and turns? Involving police cars and phone booths?
    You might also have noticed that there is always at least one additional thing he must do to that bike. Perhaps it only exists in his imagination. How are we to know?

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  • 218. At 04:10am on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere & chrono - The fellow my niece is marrying next Saturday, Peter (with the Scottish relatives) played in the bar scene in Brokeback Mountain. We went to see him on Crescent Street the night you were in town, chrono.

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  • 219. At 04:13am on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits - Oh, I had forgotten about that story. Yes, I guess he learned his lesson about surprises. But I like surprises. He said he rode the bike to the bar to watch the hockey game, so I thought all those additional fixes were just an excuse not to give me a ride to your summer home. It didn't occur to me it might be an imaginary bike! Surely not! I will be so disillusioned.

    Speaking of gatherings and such, do you suppose Justin will invite us to his going away party? I'm sure he'll be having one.

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  • 220. At 04:33am on 04 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    timewaits -- forth and back I have been, and shall be again in a month. WestJet is worse than Air Canada -- why do they make the flight attendants tell those corny jokes?

    bere -- aarghh, stick in the knife and twist it, why dontcha? I envy your son's experience. I still want to run away to sea on a sailing ship. That one in the movie is the Rose, BTW. Built in Lunenburg Nova Scotia.


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  • 221. At 04:47am on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    chrono - If you went to Peter's site, did you notice he will be at the Casino in Gatineau (whatever happened to Hull?) in November? You could go and introduce yourself to him saying, "Hi, I know someone whose name I don't know"!!
    But will find out if you meet him!
    The Beatles' Tribute. Peter, being John, is on the right. (two videos.)
    Know anyone who wants to hire a band? Let me know.

    bere - I am confident the bike exists. And even if it doesn't, likely we will never find out. I thought they were a lot of excuses too! Men and their excuses! I'm joking, I'm joking!

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  • 222. At 04:52am on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    chrono, don't be too envious -- Son didn't exactly sail away to sea, except from Mystic to New York. Mostly they sailed up and down the Hudson doing the Clearwater Project and then taking tourists for day trips. And he was stuck in the galley most of the time, being low man on the totem pole with no sailing experience. He did this the summer he was 19 and I had hoped he would become a sailor but he went on to other things.

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  • 223. At 05:01am on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    chrono - Wonderful pictures especially the Bluenose!! Made a point of seeing her while in Nova Scotia. Wonderful until..... The Picton Castle! They should change the name of that ship (perhaps they have). Dreadful memories!!! Don't like to think about it.
    What is it with, well don't know that I can quite call you, Prairie boys who want to run away to sea? My Father was in the Navy but at least he had a Newfie heritage and was born in Montreal. He could see the water from his front porch and as we have all learned, that made him an expert!!

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  • 224. At 05:07am on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits, ooh, your nephew-in-law to be is cute! And Scottish too! What more could a girl want?

    It has occurred to me that publius doesn't know who I am or my actual address so maybe that's why he wasn't on the doorstep, but all he has to do is go to the diner and describe me to the waitresses and they'll say, "Oh, that's [bere54]." Actually, all he would have to say is he's looking for the woman who wears Chuckies of various colors and always has a book with her. But this being Vermont, they might be cagey and not give out any information. Respecting privacy and all that. Oh well.

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  • 225. At 1:05pm on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Morning All! Beautiful day and more expected. Everything is so green!

    Peter is a really nice guy. Not sure he knows what he is getting himself into! My sister's boyfriend although odd can be very clever with words and calls all the men who join the family, MOTHS. Mates Of The H Sisters!! Membership has been extended to include nieces' men. So the MOTHS have a new member. He replaces the Mother-of-the-Bride's discarded one!! M continues in his role as President/Chairman of the Board.

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  • 226. At 1:25pm on 04 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Bere54# 206, 210, 211
    Nice explanation of Bag Balm and your kind offer. Thanks, but no thanks. Although cold here today early morning-24C, with the temperature rising every hour, I will stick with the Aloe Vera in protecting the skin from excesses. You can hold onto the udder type.
    No intention to offend with the paper chase. Some of us may or may not have the abilities to put 2 and 2 together and make 4, 5 or even more. Did not consider the human bovine possibilities though, in suggesting Rodeo Drive. Just felt it was a good enough distance away from where you live in Rockingham [or then again it might be Brattelboro]. Either way the view across the Connecticut River must look beautiful in the early morning. [ Can you see the historical Wallmart building across the water from where you live?]
    May I make up for my previous poor choice of words by arriving for the party with an extra pair of Dutch clogs for you as an addition to the Chuckies which look much too soft and comfortable. Whether its the Appalachian stomp or an Irish jig, they are the Manolo Blahnik's of noise-making, guaranteed to irritate the problematic neighbours downstairs.

    Timewaits # 209
    Burlington? . Now you really are talking arcades. Many a day I used to walk in that mall. It explains the earlier "ambassadors walking the streets " remark. You were in fact talking about the Beadles.

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  • 227. At 2:10pm on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits -- MOTH? A clever acronym, but it does give the impression of the males hovering, getting too close, burning to death! What does this tell us about the women of your family?

    waterman -- The river I look down on from my tower is not the majestic Connecticut but a rather smaller one Pass-ing through the village (and that's a clue), spanned by a two-block long bridge. Is the Walmart on the other side of the Connecticut River historic? I have never seen it. And had no idea there was such a thing as an historic Walmart! Good thing you addressed your latter remark to timewaits as it goes right over my head. There is a mall on Church Street in my Burlington, which is where I found my bright green Chuckies, but of ambassadors I know nothing. Unless it has to do with the chocolate shop.

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  • 228. At 2:49pm on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - It tells us a lot as mentioned in # 209 - "...he is getting himself into..." and "discarded one."

    waterman - Thanks for the archaic mall and the Beadles. Enjoyed reading the history, so...British! "No carrying of large parcels." What a way to stimulate business. The rule against opening umbrellas is understandable and should go without saying. Who would want to encourage bad luck? No mention of not turning the calendar page until the first of the month or saying, Rabbit, rabbit, rabbit. No restrictions on ladders or black cats. Must be a very unlucky place. Probably led to the fire.

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  • 229. At 4:02pm on 04 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    slow starts so High again.

    Time thanks here is hard these days if only the racists would leave so the debates could take place. Richard is doing sterling work in beating the foolish racists with their own sticks but it does just get boring to see so many lies then the truelier tries to act all offended.. again and again.. (with much encouragement from that anti arab islam racist on the hill)
    (oh no I'm not"
    YES you are. Get over it and start working on it G.

    Pub do you really think the encouragement was worth it?

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  • 230. At 4:41pm on 04 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    happy, you can only fight ignorance by ignoring. Unfortunately, there's always one or more who think fighting back will do something, so we continue on day after day, thread after thread. Your legion, as you call them, just do not see that their extremist hatred exactly mirrors the extremist hatred they profess to fight against. And they will never see, because they have their heads up their butts.

    Another 85F expected today. Again. We paid quite a bit of money to get AC installed last year. They are coming round today to fix it. Still, could be worse, I could work in a smithy :)

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  • 231. At 4:46pm on 04 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Good morning to all. We have another sunny, cool day here in the bankrupt Motor City. Yesterday I started one of those projects that shouldn't take but an hour or two that went well into the night, and will go on for at least another day, or two.


    Sorry I wasn't on your doorstep yesterday when you returned from the twin watching. A fifteen-hour straight, motorcycle ride would be torture. Besides, I have not been specifically invited for a visit. Timewaitsfornoman is right when she reminded you of my "No Surprises" visiting policy. That was a hard learned lesson and is well remembered.

    Timewaitsfornoman, Pinko, Bere-

    Have your fun with my "imaginary" scooter. While at it, please "imagine" a new pair of tires on it. That will help get that job done:-) They are all that are needed to put my motorcycle in top shape for a long road trip.


    The "imaginary" trip I've always dreamed is to sail around the world like Joshua Slocum. I think he was about my age when he did his solo, circum-navigation, although I certainly do not have his sailing experience. I recommend his book, Sailing Alone Around The World. Slocum was a native of Nova Scotia. I think you would enjoy the read.


    Have been enjoying your lyrical prose on this thread. You won't find Bere in California, but you may find "guns and religion" on the Left Coast. I cannot tell you much about the Californians in their natural habitat. My only foray into that state was a stay in Death Valley via Nevada. Didn't meet many people there. Good place for drying prunes; baking leather boots to a crisp; and everything bites and stings, including the vegatation.

    Break time is over, for now. Back to replacing a fuel pump in my four-wheeled vehicle.

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  • 232. At 5:05pm on 04 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Just a quick note before getting grease under the nails again.

    Welcome back. As noted by the others in the kitchen, you were missed.

    I have explained the reasons and results for my communications with some of those you find unsavory. I do not believe I can change their perspective. It would be like lighting a candle in the wind.

    Good to hear from you again, Jack:-)

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  • 233. At 5:20pm on 04 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    lol pub yes so we sit in the dark rather than shut the window?
    I know you meant no harm but do believe that the mods and PTB were ready to do some more of what hey did to jacksforge( OH I loved the ever so revealing tt telling himself ma that I was jacksforge. Like there was any chance I wasn't;)and am sorry they did not at least we could have moved on to new name to shout.(really the only reasonable course when communicating with that legion.)

    Sean lol rain heading your way.

    now if only I could get their heads in my water butt.
    There was another way but the time has passed and water would not have been happy.
    Still he does think that anger at lies is comparable to lies and hate ,or so it would seem in some of the comparisons.

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  • 234. At 5:22pm on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    happy - I so agree. I would join in and ask questions - my traditional role in a "debate" to gain a better understanding, etc. (Question askers add to a debate, but the "others" prevent that from happening.) I am not interested in defending myself from attacks. So I take a backseat and listen. Too many wasted words. Do they not know they have to account for them all in Heaven?
    He really bothers you, doesn't he? I know I have asked this innumerable times but could you not try do as seanspa suggests, if only to allow the debate to flourish?

    seanspa - I agree; of course you have got me into trouble numerous times! Were you like that in school? I have spent more time sitting outside the Principal's office here, than I ever did there!! And it's all your fault!! To give you credit, you always come and sit beside me.

    It is a beautiful day, not too hot but bright and sunny. A great to be alive kind of day! If only the rest of the world could be enjoying it.

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  • 235. At 5:22pm on 04 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    Oh sean yes it was hot in the forge I wish I could show you the chair and bench I made.
    Hokey sort of the wooden slats not being attached just sit there and support minimalist farmer style I call it.

    cept it's raining outside. YIPPPPPEEEEE

    "Jah make it rain. Rain is meditation time."

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  • 236. At 5:44pm on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius -

    The Queen Bee is waving her scepter like a magic wand and any moment now new tires should appear on your scooter, which I, I must protest, never thought was imaginary. If the new tires don't appear, my belief in my powers will be sadly deflated. If your tires are suddenly deflated, I'll know the spell needs more work. I quite understand that a 15-hour ride could be devastating to certain parts of the anatomy.

    Alas, I'm afraid if went around issuing specific invitations to total strangers to appear on my doorstep, my horrified children would have me locked away or at the very least take away my computer. Well, my son would probably think it was funny (as long as the stranger didn't turn out to be an axe murderer) but She Who Must Be Obeyed would not be amused. You spend the best years of your life seeing that your children have fun and then they grow up and do all they can to keep you from having fun. Sigh. But I mustn't grumble; she did allow me to wear my green Chuckies to the Gala.

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  • 237. At 5:53pm on 04 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    timewaits, it's good to sit down once in a while. Although it hurts my back when I stand up again. Rested? It's time to enjoy the day once more.

    Nearly forgot, I was picking up my wife from the airport yesterday and bought a coffee. The young lady serving asked (me and Harry) where we were from, and then confessed that she was french canadian and suffered quite bad bullying from people who made fun of her accent. She couldn't believe that we still dared to keep ours. She asked Harry if he got abuse, and he just said that people liked to hear him talk.

    I know my wife gets fed up with her colleagues laughing at her expressions. Maybe I'm just more combative when anyone says something to me. I do like to point out the name of their language, and ask why on earth they call the sport that involves holding and throwing a ball football. They have no answer to that. I then point out that the sport should really be called rugby for wimps who need protection. This usually has the effect of changing the subject.

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  • 238. At 5:56pm on 04 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, just tell your daughter that we are old family friends. You must remember the guys with odd names. You don't? Must be getting old!

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  • 239. At 5:57pm on 04 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    apparently the forge almost got washed away lucky my stuff is solid so the rest of the hills stuff is wrapped around it .
    annoyance you mean Gary. yes
    legion have ignored it and been chased for it. I have called it and been given similar crap as Rich SM gets (prove it even when it has been and I do. then they stop and change to another or the other ID takes over.(sorry if y'll don't believe it but that is your problem and mine because it won't stop.

    Gary deceives himself and belittles others arguments with his snide little comments and more often than not irrelevant links that show one side always . And the "civilisation comment today is a perfect example of why I do what I do. thet to the truth
    only comment on ed to suggest he screwed it up the blog

    the hippie that sold out. the worst.

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  • 240. At 6:18pm on 04 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    Time this some says a lot about how hate is used.How the words end up hurting.How ignoring that ends up hurting others
    I'd rather a personal insult than bigoted derision that causes hate against any nation.
    And that is all some posters are.
    Some like dweeb on the hill are not on that level but they are part of it as much as any. People who say "kill all the XXXXs" and then complain about being called an arse are the sort I would kick out of the house not just the kitchen.

    So where there is fire. Take away the oxygen, add water, or remove the fuel. But don't leave it.

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  • 241. At 6:21pm on 04 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    " Maybe I'm just more combative when anyone says something to me. I do like to point out the name of their language, and ask why on earth they call the sport that involves holding and throwing a ball football. They have no answer to that. I then point out that the sport should really be called rugby for wimps who need protection. This usually has the effect of changing the subject."

    We meet up we can tag team

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  • 242. At 6:23pm on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa, yeah, I can just hear it: "Oh, daughter-of-mine, you remember these old friends -- publiusdetroit, seanspa, timewaitsfornoman, chronophone. We've known them for years." Worse than her responding verbally would be The Look, which involves in part one eyebrow practically reaching the hairline. Many a stronger person than I has quailed before that Look.

    Message to anyone who has young daughters: When you raise them to be strong, independent, confident young women, it can backfire on you in your late youth.

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  • 243. At 7:14pm on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    happy - Oh you are right! I know. Just my way to dealing with things - ignore, maybe they will go away! Truly I find it hard to believe that some of the comments are real. I understand about the one that really bothers you - believe me! I am not a total wimp, you would see a different side if challenged by a fellow Canadian!

    seanspa- It is different for French Canadians. English is not their first language so they are not pronouncing words differently (such as vitamins, aluminum, garage, etc) but improperly. They were not making fun of her accent but her mispronunciation. And for that they should be ashamed!! She should have switched into French!!
    French Canadians have difficulty pronouncing "th" and do not use the "H" sound. Birthday becomes birday, third = turd! My last name begins with an H and often I do not realize my name is being called.
    This is American multi-culturalism at work? I think it is despicable that people would laugh and bully!

    All - I have just been informed via email that this is "National Care Week" Who knew? I am to tell you all "right now!" that I care about you. You're suppose to get back to me on that. It means you care too.

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  • 244. At 7:23pm on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - If you do not have enough closets for us to run and hide in, we can pretend to be new neighbours. Must think of a reason why we have such strange names! Can't very well say we are part of a cult!! She'd throw us out!

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  • 245. At 7:46pm on 04 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Just in to wash up and run.


    No new tires, but they look more shiny!


    Bere can tell her daughter we are all First Nations people and that is why we have such unique names.

    Off to make a parts run.

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  • 246. At 8:05pm on 04 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    timewaits, she didn't sound french and I didn't realise immediately that she was canadian of any variety at all. She said that she had to suppress the aboot, eh? to avoid aggravation.

    When I say that posters should be ignored, it is not because it doesn't matter what they say, but that their oxygen comes from the responses they get. That is why ignoring only works if everyone ignores them. Which won't happen, so retaliate away to the toshers!

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  • 247. At 8:20pm on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    243, timewaits -

    I care. Am I supposed to care just about you or about everything in general? This could be difficult, and right now I have to concentrate on getting publius' tires from shiny to brand new.

    I have just received an email from David Axelrod, with a link to The Cairo Speech. Watched part of it but don't have the stamina for all 55 minutes, and besides there's those tires to worry about . . .

    This would be a good time for you all to pop over because She Who Must Be Obeyed is on a 22-hour train ride to Chicago (sleeping compartment, dining, etc.) with He Who Obeys Her In All Things and if she were to call again and ask what all the background noise is I could just tell her it's the train noises on her end. "Raucous laughter, dear? No, no, it must be the screams of the man being stabbed 12 times by 12 people in the next compartment."

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  • 248. At 8:28pm on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    246, seanspa -

    I agree about the oxygen fanning the flames, and suggested the wall-to-wall ignoring a while back, but was ignored. Which was not what I meant, but oh well.

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  • 249. At 8:36pm on 04 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    I was awake early this morning and watched most of the speech. Maybe Axelrod knew this and that's why he didn't bother to send me the link. If the police in the UK are taking dna from children, so that they can solve crmes that these kids go on to commit when older, then I fully expect the government here to know what we are watching on tv. Must switch to radio.

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  • 250. At 9:02pm on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa -

    Maybe it's just that Axelrod does not care about you. Timewaits should forward him the National Care Week email. Or -- it could be that the government knows I don't have a TV (and would never be able to find it on the internet by myself)!

    DNA from children? Is this from all children or only those who exhibit criminal tendencies in their cribs? Pacifier theft in the day care center?

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  • 251. At 9:08pm on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - If she was French Canadian I don't know that she would have said, "aboot eh?" as we do not say aboot. We say about. And about is an English word.

    bere - I'll check my email. "...that means they care about you too." So just me or anyone else you care about.

    In full agreement about the oxygen. I'm all for freedom of speech but a different script would be welcomed.

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  • 252. At 9:21pm on 04 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    DNA records - you know they make sense.

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  • 253. At 9:27pm on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits, I'm very sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but when Canadians say "about" it sounds like "aboot" to us. Or almost like "aboot." It's the same with "house." I can always tell if someone is Canadian by how they pronounce "house" and "about." But it's a pronunciation that I can't quite mimic, so it's not exactly that double-o sound. It's very endearing. It makes Canadians seem special. And we care, we really do!

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  • 254. At 10:10pm on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    252, seanspa -

    From your link:
    "The National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA), the body in charge of the database, said that 88% of children were charged, convicted, or received a final warning."
    This is an example of sloppy writing that drives me crazy. I'm sure they meant 88% of children arrested, but that is not what it says. Or perhaps I'm wrong and they really do mean that 88% of all children in the UK have been charged, convicted, or received a final warning (whatever that is). If so, I would say there is no hope for the future of UK society. But I don't think that's what they meant.

    I've noticed this a lot on the BBC, this kind of sloppy writing. Why doesn't Justin do something about it?

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  • 255. At 10:19pm on 04 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Happylaze # 240
    Jack. You were right and I was wrong. My apologies for disregarding your thoughts and sound judgment.
    They are indeed like a swarm of locusts that inexplicably appear all together with the attempt at devouring anything or anyone in their path. But in one minor detail you are incorrect. It's the openminded contributors that are the ones producing the fire and flames that appear to be threatening them not the other way round, as demonstrated by their continual attempts to dampen and smother all truth and light on any subject.
    After recent close encounters of the closed minds I can finally understand your feelings.. One comes away with the idea that you have stepped in something nasty or been exposed to a contamination that no amount of disinfectant can remove. With the stench of contact still in your nostrils you feel retreating is for the best, for fear of bringing the infection into other areas of the house. Again you are correct. Avoidance does work towards a cure.
    The soup here in the kitchen too, helps no end. It appears to have the potency of a bloggers morning after pill .
    Keeping ones head down could be regarded as promoting a state of ignorance but the learning you seek comes from corresponding with those open minded enough to participate in a balanced discussion, and of prime importance here, at least one stays clean.
    Ignorance is never bliss, but as others have suggested, ignoring the contaminant just might well be. Glad to have you back.

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  • 256. At 11:17pm on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - Not to fret, I know! Perhaps we do say it differently, but when I say "about" and "a boot" they do not sound the same at all. We view it as a bit of a joke, "No, we do not say aboot!!" But... being the peace loving people we are, are not willing to go to war over it!

    seanspa - Ummmmm, this data base business. Perhaps because the first case solved using DNA was in the UK (I believe I am correct in saying that), it has gone to their heads. Not good, not good at all.

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  • 257. At 11:25pm on 04 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    pub -- I have two well thumbed copies of Slocum's book. Have you heard of Once is Enough by Miles Smeeton? Husband, wife, and manservant attempt to round the Horn. Wife (Beryl) was a remarkable character -- a mountaineer in the days before 'ladies' were allowed to do such things.

    The couple ended up in Calgary (my hometown) where they were legends among those with a love of the outdoors.


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  • 258. At 11:43pm on 04 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    And as for those on the other threads who say that East and West can't groove together, well they don't know nuttin'.

    Check these guys out.

    Anouar Brahem is a musical genius.


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  • 259. At 11:44pm on 04 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    pub & pink -

    My son had two copies of the Slocum book, given him at separate times as a birthday presents by his sister and me, neither of us realizing the other had given it to him. We know his taste! I found this out recently when Son, who does not like to accumulate lots of stuff, asked me, rather apologetically, if I thought it would be okay if he gave away one of the copies. His sister's gift was new, a very nice edition; mine was secondhand so I gave him permission to dispose of that one.

    I will have to look for the Miles Smeeton book.

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  • 260. At 11:58pm on 04 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    waterman - It is a tough one isn't it? Challenge or ignore? I witnessed your valiant effort, the response and ensuing reprimand! My nature has made my choice for me.
    Your quiet diplomacy reminds me of my father. I cannot pay a higher compliment.

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  • 261. At 00:10am on 05 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    It worked! Two brand new tires! They are not on the sickle yet because the front one had to be ordered. It's okay, though. I know you're kinda new at being a Queen.


    Not a good day to hold a National Care Day. I haven't a care in the world today. Even got a break on my auto parts.

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  • 262. At 00:23am on 05 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Had not heard of Miles Smeeton, but had heard of his wife, Beryl in connection with women climbers. I will look into his book. Did they read Slocum and have a supply of carpet tacks with them?

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  • 263. At 01:13am on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius -

    What's a sickle when it's not something carried by the Grim Reaper? And did the tire not needing to be ordered just magically appear? If you bought it, I'm not sure that says much for my powers. I will try not to care.

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  • 264. At 01:15am on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    detroit - I had to scroll past all the kittens and puppies that accompany the email. It is National Care Week! so it will be alright if you start caring tomorrow!
    Game's on! - I can hear the anthem.

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  • 265. At 01:35am on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - detroit's suggestion of masquerading as natives might work under some circumstances, but I don't know that it will in this case. There we are all hanging around your living room, not eating; bere-ing this, detroit-ing that and in walks your daughter!! You jump up and start introducing her to your new native friends!! And she is suppose to think it's normal behaviour?! I am extremely amused by the image.

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  • 266. At 02:05am on 05 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, I suspect that publius is taking about a motorised sickle. The kind he's going to turn up on at your house. So is the diner on Railroad or Memorial? We need to know where to meet for breakfast.

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  • 267. At 02:14am on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    I notice that the notorious MK says on the new thread that he only heard excerpts of the Speech on NPR. Do you suppose that means he is not on the White House email list? What a surprise.

    I'm on the list not because I gave any money to Obama (I've never donated to a politician) but because I bombard the White House with emails. I guess they think it's only fair to return the favor.

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  • 268. At 02:18am on 05 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I'll let Arlo explain a sickle, 'cause, I don't want a pickle.

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  • 269. At 02:25am on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits, probably the only thing my daughter would find really peculiar is if we were all eating food prepared by me. I think the shock would be too much for her. She doesn't consider anything I do to be normal behavior. Which was why she waited so long to have me meet He Who Obeys Her In All Things; according to her, he comes from a normal family. Whatever that is.

    seanspa, you are so funny, and aren't you just so pleased with yourself! Memorial Drive has nothing but the hospital and a bunch of doctors' offices and nursing homes. Yes, since everybody seems to know everything and there are no secrets, the diner is on Railroad Street.

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  • 270. At 02:27am on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Whoops, senior moment. Forgot that Memorial Drive is the one that Hospital Drive is off of. But that's because no one calls it Memorial Drive. It has a route number.

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  • 271. At 02:35am on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - Yes, inquiring minds need to know. So there is no confusion, when you all come to Montreal we can meet at the Second Cup!! Everyone clear on that?

    detroit - Uh Oh! 3-2 Pittsburgh.

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  • 272. At 02:56am on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - The same girlfriend who informed me that this is National Care Week also sent an email stating in big red letters:

    Important Message About Growing Old - scroll past a picture of a rose to read:
    Sh!t I forgot what I was going to tell you.

    And to think I wasn't going to bother reading it. Thought I was about (pronounced about) to get advice on taking vitamins or something!

    detroit - Uh Oh, Uh Oh 4-2!

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  • 273. At 03:14am on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits, is Pittsburgh the wrong team?

    Are you sulking about about? I think maybe the Canadian pronunciation is closer to "aboat."

    I have too many senior moments and I'm not even a senior yet!

    Is Second Cup somewhere that I can get to without getting lost? Oh wait, publius will be driving the sickle so I don't have to know where we're going.

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  • 274. At 03:39am on 05 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    Have fun at your gathering people. Wish I could figure out where.;)
    (I'll ask pub politely;)
    Then crash with a gate.

    Water Thanks for the kind words there but as both of us know there is no right and wrong but there is a right from wrong.

    I'll take the bong.

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  • 275. At 03:55am on 05 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I don't know who that team was that was in the white sweaters, but it wasn't my Wings! No defense. Couldn't pass. Didn't even show up for the first period. Ozzie was somewhere over the rainbow in Kansas.

    Do have to say that Pittsburg played a fine game and Fleury was a wall.

    The good news is that we're coming back to the Joe.

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  • 276. At 04:05am on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - No, I'm not sulking, only joking! You are right, it is closer to aboat - it's not aboat, but closer!
    There are Second Cups all over the city!
    It should come as no surprise that detroit wants Detroit to win!! This is the Stanley Cup, only two teams left, Detroit and Pittsburgh. Montreal has won the cup 24 times, just not recently!!

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  • 277. At 04:13am on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    happy - There is no need for you to crash, you are more than welcome to join us wherever we gather. Preferably at my place so you can make a railing!! What kind of supplies do you need? Needless to say, I do not happen to have a forge!! I've got lots of wood though, I could build a fire!

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  • 278. At 04:20am on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits - Well, that's pretty sneaky, telling us to meet at a coffee shop and then not saying which one! Is it a national chain? I seem to recall now that I was in one in Ottawa. Whatever it was, it had really good pastries.

    So the Wings are Detroit? I thought it was a Canadian team. I'm so ignorant. I was wondering why pub was rooting for a foreign team. Now I get it.

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  • 279. At 04:23am on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    detroit - Some games are like that. Home rink is always a help. What are we at now 2-2? They play one game in Detroit then back to Pittsburgh? Presuming they win, I hope it happens at home.

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  • 280. At 04:29am on 05 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I think I have your home in the city located. Turn left at the Tim Horton's and right at the Second Cup:-)

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  • 281. At 04:38am on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - Yes, the Detroit Red Wings. And yes, Second Cup is a National Chain. If detroit had his way we would be meeting at Tim Horton's (who played hockey for the Toronto Maple Leafs). Canada revolves around the game. My cousin from the UK was at the Halifax airport when Canada was playing the US at the Olympics and she told me everyone was gathered around the TV screens and they had to keep calling the flights! Last call; last, last call. Final call for flight #.... OK, If you don't get on the plane now it will leave without you, call!

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  • 282. At 05:18am on 05 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    It's not unusual for border towns to join forces under one team, no matter what side of the border.

    James Norris Center on the campus of Lake Superior State University in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan (my little sisters' alma mater) is named after a Canadian hockey player. (Timewaitsfornoman will like that he was a defenseman at McGill University) I would go to the games at the Norris Center with my sister when I would visit her. There were as many, if not more, Canadians from Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario in the crowd as there were Yanks.

    There was a hockey team in Port Huron, Michigan called the "International Flags"; later becoming the "Border Cats". We stood for the singing of the Canadian and U.S. national anthems before the start of every game. That is where I learned the words to "O Canada". We sang it with as much gusto as the "Star Spangled Banner". The team logo centered on the two national flags. I became an "international playboy" when I met a girl from Sarnia, Ontario at a "Flags" game and we began dating.

    A Detroit Wings game at Joe Lewis Arena will draw almost as many Canadian fans from Windsor and Essex County, Ontario as there are Detroit fans.

    I have rooted for the Montreal Canadians for years when watching Hockey Night In Canada on the CBC. Can't root for the Toronto Maple Leafs; unless the Wings are out of the Stanley Cup race, because they are too close to Detroit.

    Hockey in U.S. border towns is as popular as it is in Canada; where it is almost a religion:-) Aaron started playing hockey at six years old. His equipment made him as wide as he was high. I smile to recall the image of midget heaps of hockey equipment skidding around an ice rink very early on weekend mornings while us blurry-eyed parents huddled over hot cups of vending-machine coffee in the bleachers of a cold arena.

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  • 283. At 05:35am on 05 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Some years ago my television died during the day a Stanley Cup finals game with the Wings was scheduled for that evening. The Detroit Pistons were also playing an NBA finals game that night. Aaron was beside himself in disappointment. I told him not to worry. We would see the Wings game.

    We went to a Meijers store; found a comfy place to watch the game in front of the wall of demo televisions; half tuned to the hockey game, the other half tuned to the Pistons game. We had the best of both worlds.

    Of course, we walked out of Meijers after the game with a new television so we could watch the next game at home.

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  • 284. At 1:44pm on 05 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    282 Publius.

    Ain't that the truth. The best age is when they are little, and they can hardly stand up. And the hockey bag is bigger than the kid.

    Lovely memories.

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  • 285. At 2:33pm on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Good morning all - My sons had the privilege of attending the final game when the Habs won the cup! I remember it was a beautiful evening and everybody poured out onto the streets!

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  • 286. At 3:37pm on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Lovely morning here. There seem to be strawberries already. Might have to go have some fresh strawberry pie for lunch at the diner. Is it too early for lunch?

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  • 287. At 6:42pm on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius - Another update on the hunting incident: Apparently Vermont takes the rules of hunting so seriously that there is no "out" for someone punished enough because it was his own son he shot. And the act itself is the evidence; in other words, it's the first rule, identifying the target, that is obviously broken when a person is shot. There is no "mitigating circumstance." And that is what brings the manslaughter charge. I doubt he will serve prison time but the law requires he be charged. He went to a mental hospital after the funeral. Somehow I doubt he will fight the charge or care much what happens to him. All so very sad.

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  • 288. At 7:51pm on 05 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - Oh dear! Terrible tragedy!

    I'm off to the country.

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  • 289. At 10:07pm on 05 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    bere -- I obtained two copies of Slocum by a similar route. One from Mother, one from a lover (who is now my wife).

    pub -- the tacks were a funny bit. My fave is the imaginary friend he generates -- Magellan at the helm! This is hallucination busisness, apparently, is a well known phenomenon, related to sleep deprivation. My ultimate ambition has always been to move out to Nova Scotia and build a wooden boat. Unfortunately, my family is all on the West coast. Very expensive. So I will have to work longer. But eventually, inshalllah, ... .

    timewaits -- looks like summer is here, finally. I'll be off to the cottage tomorrow. You know, now that pub has ordered his tires, this moto trip could be do-able. I'm free the last two weeks of August. Pub, I'll meet you in Akwasane. Cheap gas.

    Reading the some of the hateful driven on the other threads is depressing. But more Anouar cheers me up. Here's to nights in Andalusia.


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  • 290. At 10:37pm on 05 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    There is an absolute classic from tt on another thread, where he declares that he would never return somewhere he wasn't wanted.

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  • 291. At 10:43pm on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    chrono -

    Ah, the oud. I had a broken one that my husband had picked up in the souk in Jerusalem and never got around to repairing. I finally traded it to an instrument builder/repairer, who lusted after it, for two hand drums and a kitten. This was the cat who several years later moved to the frat house. I had never actually seen anyone playing an oud until your link. Thanks.

    seanspa -

    Yes, I noticed that. I laughed. Wanted to ask him if that meant he would never return to the kitchen but decided not to start anything.

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  • 292. At 10:47pm on 05 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:

    seanspa (#290), TrueToo was referring to (hypothetically) being banned by the administrators of this form. That is pretty clear if you read the context, but you have either overlooked it or chosen not to convey that point here.

    TT has not been banned, and I don't expect he will be.

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  • 293. At 11:03pm on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Gary -

    But tt didn't say he wouldn't return to where he'd been banned, he said he wouldn't return to where he wasn't wanted. The wording was his. Seanspa saw the irony of this, and so did I. Just because someone has been banned doesn't necessarily mean they're not wanted, by others on the blog, and just because they haven't been banned doesn't mean they're wanted. If you had read tt's remarks in a previous kitchen I think you would understand that seanspa's comment is appropriate here.

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  • 294. At 11:05pm on 05 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    Is it just me, or does Gary remind you of one of those kvetchy old geezers on the muppets who would diss everyone from the balcony?

    Or maybe the eagle who would read the news?

    Sorry, Gary, but there it is. And I do enjoy disagreeing with you. Really.


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  • 295. At 11:10pm on 05 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    bere -- two drums and a kitten? Do you bongo? Poor kitty! No wonder he took refuge in the frat house!


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  • 296. At 11:11pm on 05 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Gary, we are what we post.

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  • 297. At 11:13pm on 05 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Thanks for the update. I agree with timewaitsfornoman; a terrible tragedy. I hope the father can find peace.


    Aaron is heading for Wyoming around the 23rd of August. I have a feeling I might need to help him move his things. But if he doesn't need my help, I'm free to travel. Akwasasne would be an interesting place to meet. Cheap gas is always a plus. We're back to $3.00(US) a gallon here in Detroit ($1.13(CAD) a litre?).

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  • 298. At 11:19pm on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    chrono -

    I'm glad you threw John Hagee into the mix on the other thread. I was rather surprised at the lack of understanding in the comment you were responding to but really don't want to get involved in that mess.

    I had made a comment earlier about Terry Gross of Fresh Air being so respectful in her interviews of right-wing extremists. It was specifically John Hagee I had in mind. At no point did she treat him like the lunatic he is. Which is why I wanted to strangle her.

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  • 299. At 11:19pm on 05 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    Sam the Eagle

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  • 300. At 11:20pm on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    And yes, it is exactly those Muppet geezers that Gary reminds me of.

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  • 301. At 11:23pm on 05 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Gas is $2.42 around here. We seem to be in some sort of cheap zone - washington and southern idaho can be quite a lot more expensive. I wouldn't recommend coming here just for the gas, though. You'd need to have breakfast at terry's blue plate (now run by daughter kim) to make it worthwhile.

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  • 302. At 11:34pm on 05 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    chrono, I do not bongo. That cat had the best life a cat could have, and he chose to move away anyway. There is no pleasing some people. I mean, cats. I thought the kids might like the drums but they were never interested and they were given away some time ago (the drums, not the kids - though they have gone the way of the cat and abandoned me!).

    seanspa, gas is about the same here. At least it was the last time I noticed. Probably gone up again.

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  • 303. At 11:59pm on 05 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Been trying to catch up on the other thread. WOW! I don't think it's worth my time.

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  • 304. At 00:11am on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius, no, I don't think it's worth the time. I skimmed over many of the posts. It's mostly the same old stuff, with a little nugget here and there. I would recommend just reading Canard and J-in-D and Chrono and pretty much skipping the rest. But that's just my opinion; I look for the humor.

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  • 305. At 00:47am on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    I recommend Guns' post #181 on the quieter thread. Winnie is one of my heros.

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  • 306. At 01:09am on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Yes, Guns' post is good, and so is J-in-D's with the list of misspelled/misused words. But then there are those merely pedantic (and sometimes incorrect) ones . . . I have an old immense dictionary with lots of archaic spellings. No potato with an "e" on the end. I read mostly 18th and 19th century literature. Nary a "potatoe." But I'm not going to get into an argument about it on the other thread with someone who does not take kindly to corrections!

    seanspa, in the novels of Angela Thirkell, written through the years of the war, the characters (British, of course) revere Winnie. Speak of him almost as a god. Thirkell has him do a cameo appearance at a church fete at the end of the war and the people are beside themselves with joy. Very pleasurable reading (but not guy stuff!).

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  • 307. At 01:11am on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Oooh, seanspa, I see your #184 on the other thread. You're a braver man than I, Gunga Din.

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  • 308. At 02:24am on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Changed my mind about tussling over spelling. Probably a big mistake.

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  • 309. At 03:07am on 06 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    At least the great potato debate was a breath of fresh air. It would be better for the Mid-east if they planted more tubers than bodies.

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  • 310. At 03:41am on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius -

    Your comment on the other thread was outstanding. If it doesn't put an end to that particular nastiness, then there's really something wrong with those people.

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  • 311. At 03:51am on 06 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Thank you. I doubt if it will take stop the nastiness. Some people live shallow, narrow lives.

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  • 312. At 04:20am on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius -

    I am fairly new to the internet and find a lot of what I read on different sites to be shocking and upsetting. Perhaps I'm naive, but I'm not sure I understand why some people write such nasty stuff. Is it just because they can, because it's anonymous? Do they really believe what they say? Would they dare to spout such stuff, say, around the water cooler at work? (Do offices still have water coolers?) Did their mothers never teach them manners? Gentle ridicule is one thing, but all that venom is disturbing.

    For my own peace of mind, I may have to quit reading blogs and stick with 19th century literature. At least in those books people hated one another politely.

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  • 313. At 04:56am on 06 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Being anonymous is part of it.

    When I was a customer service representative at the phone company there were always people calling in to voice a complaint using the most abusive and vile language. My office served the county and small town where I grew up, along with a wider area into Metro-Detroit.

    People that I had known for many years would call in to complain. We used our first names when answering the phone, so they never knew they were talking to somebody who knew them very well. I knew quite a number of people who where supposedly good Christians, or thought themselves to be of high culture, that would be astoundingly abusive when they thought themselves anonymous.

    It's a cowardly act. I never let it bother me. I did lose respect for them.

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  • 314. At 05:07am on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    290 lol sean I was tempted to respond to that one.

    "292. At 10:47pm on 05 Jun 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:
    seanspa (#290), TrueToo was referring to (hypothetically) being banned by the administrators of this form. That is pretty clear if you read the context, but you have either overlooked it or chosen not to convey that point here.

    TT has not been banned, and I don't expect he will be"

    gary dear why not just come out with what you think, go on try. Just engage them cells and think!

    what a poodle.

    293 lol Bere that journalist in you understands comprehension. Not one of the mathematically gifted gary is so good at.

    (see a long time ago we began to but horns when he was so busy defending MA because me and Ed were making fun of him and gary thought MA had good points to make. (back when MA was all over describing how to attack people in Gaza)
    History now but Gary still has not changed.. got no face on that one.

    Part of the reason I gave up on him long ago.

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  • 315. At 05:11am on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    298 agreed about strangling cherry gross

    Chrono I wish I had waited till I read your comment.. it is correct . that is who he reminds me of.

    I follow the Bill hicks method of dealing with hecklers.

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  • 316. At 05:27am on 06 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    Some bongo bong for falling asleep -- or waking up, as the case may be.

    Good post over yonder, Pub. Keep that Akwasasne thing in mind ...


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  • 317. At 06:01am on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    for those that aren't limited by language like me.


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  • 318. At 06:10am on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    Note on nastiness to gary from me..
    he deserves it. do you see his intimate conversation with TT where TT starts (yet again) down an old MA favourite.
    the Balen report. out of the blue, like the champers bottles and the johnson kidnapping.. Keep your eyes open and legion is obvious.

    Bill Hicks and "marketing" check it out.
    Or "rock stars against drugs" both spring to mind.
    (direct links would most likely be dumped in the bin by the mods so...

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  • 319. At 11:40am on 06 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Good morning all.
    Raining softly here, which is a blessing for my earth, and appropriate for a 6th June, D Day Remembrance day.
    Perhaps not so deep as Jack's musical offerings, but they come from the heart.
    Memories of old soldiers?
    Who threw the first stone?
    Mad world
    May I say that again
    When will this world start to learn from it's past mistakes and look towards establishing a stable future for all the living. Whether it be the names of the fallen engraved on gravestones as a reminder, or commandments from any God written on stone tablets, the message does not seem to be getting through.
    It makes one ashamed of being able to reach old age where others will not be so lucky.

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  • 320. At 1:42pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Waterman -- thanks for a good morning's cry (particularly "Universal Soldier"), not by any means a bad thing. Lovely morning here, makes it hard to reflect on the sad things.

    happylaze -- thanks for explaining the thing with Gary; I was wondering about that because he doesn't seem all that bad, but didn't know about the history. He's pedantic but not hateful.

    And speaking of pedantic, I see on the other thread that my dictionary of etymology must fall on its sword, egads, proved wrong by the elementary school memories of a couple of elderly people. And I see that I, who have been doing the more difficult of the NY Times crossword puzzles (Thursday - Sunday) for years, have been too stupid to spot the mistakes Will Shortz (not Short) apparently constantly makes (accusation made by someone who is never wrong). Whenever I think there's been a mistake made in the puzzle, it turns out to be my mistake! But I'm going to let this go, my rant here sufficing, because some people are simply never wrong. Never. About anything. And people like that get on my nerves, no matter who they are. But it does no good to put a mirror in front of a blind person.

    publius -- sorry for this rant this morning, but I hope I haven't been rude and nasty and I don't feel very anonymous here in the kitchen. Especially since it seems any one of you could easily track me down and smack me!

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  • 321. At 1:46pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    happy -- "I am still making useful and enjoyable pieces from trash.
    Many others here have been similarly engaged in responding to your posts."

    This is why I missed you. Priceless. Almost makes up for the absence of british-ish.

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  • 322. At 3:31pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, I'm still waiting for someone to acknowledge my point that quayle was wrong to correct the correct spelling. Curious silence instead. Perhaps she has no direct knowledge of what happened so is refusing to comment. Or maybe I've been sent to coventry.

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  • 323. At 4:02pm on 06 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Good morning to all on another sunny, cool day in the Motor City.


    There are not enough old soldiers weeping through their horrible tales of lost brothers, and too many universal soldiers willingly feeding the cannons with their bodies for the world to find sanity. It is only likely to become worse as we suck the marrow of natural resources dry from the bosom of Grandmother Earth and poison her precious water-blood with our waste.


    Sorry your etymology was shot apart. I was rather pleased to find out that my Grandmother, a teacher, came from a higher, more noble class. Too bad my sister and neice are such illiterate educators. I would write them and tell them to improve their teaching skills, but they may not be able to read my letters.


    Keep the forge stoked. It appears you are collecting a lot of garbage cans to turn into lawn frogs:-)

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  • 324. At 4:40pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    Morning all. what fun that was;)

    legion got well confused last nigh when trying to be nice to gary and nasty elsewhere. What fun.

    bere Gary is not hateful just someone that ends up promoting it.

    I could provide endless examples where the Matt was getting beaten like a rug in april and all of a sudden Gary joins in ..with another opinion that is so missing the point. all the while calling people "child" "ignorant" etc , some polite way of putting people down.

    Which I recognise and say "stuff you '

    And will until he tries better himself instead of just pretending to be civilised.
    great thing being brought up in British boarding schools is you learn early that the polite well dressed are no better than yobs.

    But in all fairness Agreed that my favourite spelling of potato is not now right "wiki" does say it was used for some time until the beginning of the first last century.

    I must admit to not following that argument on the other thread so the small words that make the posts were missed on me.

    Pub I do laugh at legions attempts to deride my work.. It is not the best out there(though pretty good) but from what I see legion can create nothing worth while so has to give it for free over the net.

    Water Like the Donovan song.

    BTW the answer "HE DID"

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  • 325. At 5:19pm on 06 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    wma, bere, pub, seanspa, jack -- there is a well articulated formula that may explain some of the wilder aspects of what go on here.

    Tho' actually, on this blog, I think the fact of two hardened and hostile ideological viewpoints rubbing up against one another (and yes, Gary, I would include myself in that statement) would have to be factored into the equation.

    Marbles (she is a self-described geezeress) and the Kansas Curmudgeon are OK. Should we be so lucky to live as long, no doubt we will guild our glory days, too.

    pub -- about mother earth -- have you ever seen the photographs of Edward Burtynsky? Beautiful, terrifying, thought provoking.

    Off to the county ... ciao all.


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  • 326. At 5:51pm on 06 Jun 2009, chronophobe wrote:

    Oh, and bere -- there will be no smacking.

    Unless you want me too. Grrrrowwwrrrrrrrr ...

    Naughty Pinko

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  • 327. At 6:15pm on 06 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:

    bere and chrono smacking each other. with growls

    maybe I should stick around.;)

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  • 328. At 6:20pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    mm That's better.
    that all inclusive skin is a perv.

    Lol sean I would be happy to be in Coventry . It isn't here.;)

    Though they seem to be in a bit of a serious situation over there. what with dreaming the tories willl help them out of the problems.

    You mention DNA and other data bases before. that is the problem with the UK. too many oldies thinking like nancy reagan instead of being open.

    The " Hot Fuzz" syndrome .

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  • 329. At 6:27pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    322, seanspa -- I noticed the curious silence. As I said, some people will never admit to error. As for having "no direct knowledge," there were, a few threads ago, some rather astonishingly unpleasant remarks made about Caroline Kennedy's personal life, and I thought about making a comment regarding whether the poster had direct knowledge of Kennedy's personal life, but decided not to pursue it.

    Regarding geezerness and attitudes, I'll tell a story. Some years ago my son was paid to drive an old lady with dementia around (her relatives liked getting her out of the house!). This lady, 97 at the time, had grown up a Southern Belle in Norfolk, VA. My son would come home aghast, telling me of the really horrible racist remarks Miss L would make (matter-of-factly rather than nastily) as they rode around town. I tried to explain to him that she had grown up in a different time when such attitudes were commonplace. Son, 17 and idealistic, hotly told me this was no excuse, she ought to know better now. Only when I explained that the dementia was causing her to think she really was back there in her girlhood and she really didn't know any better was he mollified, but it was still very difficult for him to sit there and listen to her without reprimanding her (which as a well-brought-up young man he knew better than to do!).

    My point here is that geezerhood in and of itself is not really an excuse. One evening I was reading through older threads from before I joined the blog, and was appalled at some of the things written by the poster in question, particularly on the subject of gay marriage, and homosexuality in general, subjects she appears to have no direct knowledge of. Dementia does not appear to be an excuse in this case. So I'm afraid I don't have a lot of patience with her. Nor a lot of respect, since reading those earlier threads.

    And chrono, I'm not into S&M so no smacking, please, unless I deserve it!

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  • 330. At 6:49pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Happy, the sooner Brown [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] departs the better.

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  • 331. At 7:08pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    sean probably right there. He was A tony man after all. but who's next? and what's the complaint. big bro . I get that one . New labour failed by trying to be all conservative and not regulating the money makers. it seems. will the replacement do any better.
    I'm not following Brit politics so much these days.
    It does seem that Gordy is unpopular though. but the expenses scandal happens to every party. wrong yes. maybe change is good, any change. but I'm not sure where they are going.

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  • 332. At 7:27pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    330, seanspa -

    The video you linked to is a little frightening in that every word of it, as far as I've been able to understand, is as applicable to Obama as it is to Brown. Not about being a m*r*on and inept necessarily, but all the economic bits. If it weren't for that I would have been highly amused.

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  • 333. At 7:35pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, sorry about that. At least Obama didn't sell off your gold reserves when the price was at a low, and at least people actually voted for him to run the country.

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  • 334. At 7:48pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa, yes, there is that. Thank you. Now I feel a bit cheerier. Well, though, if you've actually elected someone who then screws up, doesn't that make it worse?

    You made no comment about my #329. Was I out of line?

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  • 335. At 7:54pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    lol sean Gordon is a moron, what a song.

    Personally I'd say there were a lot of morons. that the present crisis had it's origins way back to the getting rid of industry days. the reliance on financial markets to provide income.
    The massive expense at keeping people "safe" because tony picked a fight he could not win.

    Just like the economy here it is all down to a few with money supporting the stock market. They took it out when they saw the face of the possible new president and never put it back it. they hoarded gold. Now they are buying land cheap.
    Britain's "special" relationship is much of the problem. the willingness to believe americans.

    It was the US market that collapsed first because of things way beyond Gordys control. Health care , war, gas prices. Now a communist take over was fine by me but without it what was going to happen. The next lot will they regulate the banking industry? Will they stop thinking thta exporting jobs is great. When it comes down to it Gordy is a capitalist. That's the problem.

    Have you seen the film "a very british coup"

    funny film really. about what happens when a real socialist gets the reins .

    And how much they get bucked.
    And a beautiful bit about bucking back.

    net flick it.

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  • 336. At 7:57pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, whilst I am inclined to agree with you, I feel that I am unwisely getting drawn into a confrontation between the two of you. I would prefer to confine any personal jabs to those who are driven by hate, and your old lady isn't in that category. I think chrono explained it pretty well.

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  • 337. At 8:00pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    Sean not only gold reserves but some other prime real estate around the world was sold.
    The British consulate in San Fran was sold.( many others as well) Lovely Old (on historic tour) building that attracted many visitors to the inward investment mission to the UK and helped promote British Business interests ,centrally located (good place to be to deal with problems should an earthquake occur).

    but sold for pennies compared to the later prices.
    Still long term the value went down but now they rent a building(was paid off) and have to spend more money for their receptions because there is no staff like the old place.

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  • 338. At 8:07pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    This is a test: moron

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  • 339. At 8:08pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Huh. A while ago when I used that word I got stopped by a "profanity" filter.

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  • 340. At 8:11pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    you can't borrow your way out of debt . but then if you have nothing what can you do?

    gordy did create the environment I suppose so hold him responsible . but bere Obama i did not. borrowing to get out is not great.or very sensible. But to not do so.?where it is spent should be debated.
    to not spend is fine but then there would have to be the sort of restrictions that many americans would get up in arms about. Their freedom to spend , buy etc.

    No school etc.

    He could have capped salaries and tried to take the money off the rich to pay for it. I'm ALL up for that. but I doubt he would survive for as long as he has.

    He has his eyes on the problems that led us here I think. global hatred.

    Much of the rest is beyond his control.
    "oi you rich XXXXX .will you re invest .If not we are closing the stock market down.Put your money behind you country or get out(and we will keep your dosh""

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  • 341. At 8:13pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 342. At 8:18pm on 06 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    339. bere54 wrote:

    "Huh. A while ago . . ."

    No, they're not the same. Scotland's far too [sanguinary] cold. Back later, maybe, but might need a better roadmap.

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  • 343. At 8:24pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 344. At 8:31pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    336, seanspa -

    Fair enough. I was just rather tickled by your comment at 322, seeing as how it expressed my own view. My further comment was really in response to chrono's explanation which I don't wholly embrace. But then he ran off to the country after naughtily growling!

    I mostly try to avoid the confrontation now because there's no point in it, but couldn't resist the little jab last night. Sometimes my inner imp gets the better of my better judgment.

    Also, I feel that quite often "benign" ignorance, expressed thoughtlessly, can be as harmful as hate if not corrected. (Not that this was the issue last night.) Some people accept a mild correction well (as with a friend of mine who thoughtlessly used the expression "jew down") and others become irate and defensive. The old lady is in the latter category, so mostly now I just keep my mouth shut. Or try to.

    And then we have the example of aquarizonagal, but perhaps she is in a class by herself!

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  • 345. At 8:38pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    342, squirrelist ??

    Well, that went right over my head. Ed, is that you, by any chance?

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  • 346. At 8:43pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Wow, I'm on the naughty list now.

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  • 347. At 8:47pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa, whose naughty list?

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  • 348. At 8:51pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Seanspa, oh, I see. I just caught up on the other thread. What a bad boy!

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  • 349. At 9:03pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, I was referring to having 2 posts in quick succession being pulled. But I admit that I find the blind accusations of prejudice being thrown around on another thread rather ludicrous. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. So I'll take the dog for a walk instead.

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  • 350. At 9:04pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Will someone please point out to TT that one can recognize when one's children are misbehaving and still love them? And that chastising those children for misbehavior does not make one anti-children? Call me a coward, but I really don't want to get involved in that debate.

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  • 351. At 9:28pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Jonathan Ross got a mention (he was incorrectly labelled) on another thread. His brother has a special place on the internet. The comments on this product are well worth reading. Quite the funniest thing I've seen.

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  • 352. At 9:47pm on 06 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    345. At 8:38pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    342, squirrelist ??

    "Well, that went right over my head. Ed, is that you, by any chance?"

    'course not. It's the metamorphosed half-mediterranean squirrel spokeshuman. Just don't mention that.

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  • 353. At 10:02pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    345 -

    Well, that was my first thought, but I thought the squirrel spokeshuman was in the South of France and incommunicado for a few months. And there was that reference to Scotland. Now I'm really confused, but that's nothing new. But if it is indeed you, I am so pleased! And maybe even if it's not you.

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  • 354. At 10:10pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    352Ah are you one of them cute red British squirrels or one of them offensive fat tree rats from the city;)

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  • 355. At 10:15pm on 06 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Chronophobe # 325
    Thank you . Wonderful pictures about a lot of sad subjects.
    Running the risk of being accused again of being an armchair psychologist I find it is difficult not to feel sympathy and pity for some here, their ideas,and their like minded friends They are frightened of what might occur, now that Obama has taken the reins. Despite accusations of our blind faith in the President, where even we are moderately surprised at the speed and turn of events, they are shocked to the core after years of relative stability and support from the USA, that he would appear to be attacking , not with a blunt full frontal assault but with the considered deliberations of a chess player, swaying world public opinion to chip away at what they regard as secure foundations.
    Perhaps through circumstances, feeling shunned in the past, and also today, they have all become used to sitting alone, to watch the world move on without them, and have ended up playing with themselves.
    They dramatically prove the old wives tail that it does result in one going completely blind.
    Although I am now pleased that at least with their like minded fellows on the blog they have found solace in playing with each other here, that does not ignore or exclude the fact that it is now just a case of the blind leading the blind.
    Perhaps hoping that they will play according to the rules with the rest of the participants here in the blog is going too far but I do at least wish the country they so avidly defend, would join the important discussions at hand in the real world. Out there it is not a game anymore, and like America has recently discovered with torture, you cannot change the rules of decency to fit your own private agenda in what is solely acceptable for your own individual benefit.
    Similar to your failing with the dictionary of etymology, Wikipedia lets me down on a suitable link to the meaning of the word jerks and the various combinations or descriptions, but perhaps for the sake of decency, both in front of a lady and getting passed the moderators it is for the best.

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  • 356. At 10:23pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa -- I cannot fully express my gratitude. I was only vaguely aware of Jonathan Ross as part of the Russell Brand froofra, and never heard of his portly portraited brother. I also had no idea that portraits were sold on Amazon. But the biggest and most delightful surprise of all is that comments are posted on Amazon. Had no idea Amazon could be so entertaining. You know, there really are a lot of talented, imaginative, hysterically funny writers out there. This gives me hope for the future of humanity. Really!

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  • 357. At 11:01pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    lol water I too do actually have some sympathy for legion.(but not enough to want to listen to it all) I think your point about them screaming more because they see an end to their reason to be.

    I think though Granny had it right with them. they may well be blind . computer technology is advancing.

    but they still have not come up with a a way of leading each other.

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  • 358. At 11:10pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    355, waterman -

    I don't object to your being an armchair psychologist; I often engage in the same activity myself, and from a very comfy armchair.

    However, I can't find it within myself to feel the sympathy and pity that you do for the frightened and blind types. I am just not capable of rising to the level of those like you and aquagal; I'm too impatient and intolerant. My failing. I tend to be a pessimist, and an ornery one. I think the world would be a better place if there were more like you and fewer like me.

    A while ago on the sale table at the local bookstore there was a book called "14,000 Things To Be Happy About." (Slashed price; apparently no one wanted it.) Two of my very good friends suggested, separately, that I should write one called "14,000 Things To Be Pissed Off About," and that not only would this be easy for me but that I could have it ready for the publisher within a month. I think it's a great idea; unfortunately, I've been so irritated at the State of the World that I haven't been able to concentrate on the project.

    So maybe you see sort of where I'm coming from!

    seanspa -- One of the things that really annoys me is when people fail utterly to recognize irony (re: the other thread).

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  • 359. At 11:13pm on 06 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, as gushing as the comments themselves!

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  • 360. At 11:20pm on 06 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa, yeah, but I was being serious!

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  • 361. At 01:34am on 07 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Well, all, #337 on the "quieter" thread is an example of what I was talking about. Perhaps my ethnicity makes me particularly sensitive but I think that is an appalling remark. I don't think geezerhood excuses it. There is an insular cluelessness there. Perhaps she should have toured the ovens with Obama.

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  • 362. At 03:05am on 07 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, I was trying to duck out of this, but I too was appalled. She talks of class, but exhibits little at times.

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  • 363. At 03:38am on 07 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa, yes, a decided lack of class.

    I am going to take my headache off to bed now and try to dream dreams of aqua and her dear one frolicking through Botswana, bestowing yarn and other goodies on old friends, and of squirrels scurrying around the South of France, hitting internet cafes and posting incognito on blogs. And maybe Cap'n Jack Sparrow will frolic through the dreams as well.

    Good night.

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  • 364. At 03:42am on 07 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    354. At 10:10pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    352Ah are you one of them cute red British squirrels or one of them offensive fat tree rats from the city;)

    Of course I'm cute. And Red. Wanna fight?

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  • 365. At 03:57am on 07 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    Oi ginger top and bottom!

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  • 366. At 04:09am on 07 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    354. At 10:10pm on 06 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    352Ah are you one of them cute red British squirrels

    Squirrelpost: "We fear our spokeshuman (he is really very cute; quite pretty for as human, in fact) may have sounded somewhat impolite in his 364. However, we wish to express our appreciation of Happy's spirited defence of truth and balance elsewhere on this blog. Our spokeshuman, though rested from his spell in France, is, we are sorry to say, disinclined to join in the battle any more, though we see MacJakome is cudgelling with the bet of them.'

    How did TT get into the last kitchen?

    (What I meant about the 'roadmap' was. apart from a cynical reference to the inevitable decline into Israel, was that it took me ages to find this one.

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  • 367. At 2:24pm on 07 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Bere # 358
    Look forward to eventually seeing your book published, though seeing how things are developing here perhaps only "14000 things to be pissed off about" will be just a drop in the bucket. I am sure since it's inception, Justin's himself and we contributors must have added a few thousand more, and probably with his departure and the eventual rehashing of old discussions in a new improved format-" Mark Mardell's USA, Canada, Israel and the Middle East" will rake over old coals to swell the number.

    Squirrel-ish # 366
    Hope you had a good holiday, and recharged the batteries.
    TT's presence in the old kitchen was partly my fault. I mistakenly assumed everybody visiting and adding their 2 cents worth had a heart. 3rd time of trying with him I believe. I was wrong and should have remembered the saying- If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it."
    We live and learn don't we.

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  • 368. At 2:33pm on 07 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    lol furry friend. no offence taken there. Glad you found your way home. must have been an ' incredible journey' .

    See I'm defending the honour of Scootlan by attacking a git who shows you guys to not be so smart . An impostor I feel because I never met such thick headedness in the scots I knew.

    TT got in because he was invited.I'm not sure that will happen again so break out the nuts and tell all.

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  • 369. At 2:40pm on 07 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    lol Water.

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  • 370. At 3:14pm on 07 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Well the nuts were out yesterday. Just who do these people think they are kidding?

    Still waiting for that rain, happy.

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  • 371. At 3:45pm on 07 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Well, I see the squirrel was not using internet cafes in France. I enjoyed the image anyway. Don't the French allow all manner of the animal kingdom into their cafes?

    Trying to decide whether to amble on over to the diner for a breakfast of strawberry-rhubarb pie.

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  • 372. At 3:56pm on 07 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    for a laugh

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  • 373. At 3:59pm on 07 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    publius, this is a rather gloomy view of detroit. Do you see things the same way?

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  • 374. At 4:07pm on 07 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    370 lol sean i tried to point that out. most brits have approached this from an open minded view point.

    Sorry on the rain there I see the front changed directions.

    We had 1 inch in 30 minutes where my forge is.

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  • 375. At 6:07pm on 07 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 373 seanspa

    Yep. The corrospondent described things well. Ford built the "RenCen", as we call it locally, as a sign of the rebuilding of Detroit. I started a new job at a downtown law firm the day of the opening dedication in 1976. The city had been in a steady decline from the time of the '67 Riots. An event I witnessed first hand while staying for 2 weeks with some relatives on summer vacation.

    Ford sold the RenCen to GM several years ago when the SUV tire recall problem put Ford on the verge of bankruptcy. The complex of buildings are an icon on the skyline. The maze of corridors and walkways inside are terribly confusing. Getting from point A to point B generally leads unintended arrivals at points G,C,J,F,G,E... It takes about a month of working in the complex to be able to navigate reasonably well.

    There is a second center of high-rise structures "uptown" where the Fischer Building and the "old" GM Headquarters Building serve as the anchor. The old GM HQ was sold to the city to fulfill its need for more office space. City government continued to grow as the city declined. More city workers serving less citizens. That has not worked well.

    By six o'clock in the evening, on any given weekday, the streets are mostly deserted as office workers return to the suburbs. The exception in the desert being the immediate areas around the three casinos that continue to be busy. The casinos have sucked the marrow from the bone of many local businesses. Greektown Casino opened in the old ethnic Greek community that was the center for restaurants and shops. Iconic, old restruarants have closed and the majority of the shops. People come to lose their money to the casino and have none left to spend on an evening of dining and shopping.

    Outside of Downtown Detroit is very dismal. Aaron went to visit his mother just the other day. Indian Village was once a secure, safe neighborhood; home to judges, auto executives, lawyers, etc. The neighborhood is an Historic District of large estates. Henry Ford built a modest, 28 room house in the "Village" which he gave to Edsel Ford as a wedding present. These days, Aaron is frightened to travel through the city to get to his mother's house. He grew up in the city. Even the Village is unsafe as the economy gets worse.

    I live a stone-throw from the northern border of Detroit; Eight Mile Road. The area has been relatively secure for years, but that is quickly changing as people are losing their houses and the "urban miners" and squatters are moving into the surrounding neighborhoods. Wyoming looks better every day.

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  • 376. At 6:48pm on 07 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    waterman -

    I have just spent about a half hour watching some of the videos you linked to on the other thread about the USS Liberty. It has made me sick to my stomach. But I'm grateful to you nonetheless because it's important that we know this stuff. Until this came up recently on that thread, all I'd ever known about the incident was that Israel "accidentally" attacked a US ship.

    Can it really be true that LBJ (in cahoots with Israel) ordered the ship sunk so as to blame Egypt and join the war? My brain goes numb at the horror of this.

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  • 377. At 7:05pm on 07 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    happylaze, I see you have now run head-on into the marble wall. Cogent argument does not penetrate that wall. Welcome to the club.

    I'm sorry if the rest of you think I'm being disagreeable but I've wondered why some blind ignorance gets a pass while others are jousted with. Seanspa excepted; he's done some jousting. Intolerance bothers me no matter what the source, whether it's driven by hate or not.

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  • 378. At 7:39pm on 07 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    bere54 # 376,
    I was just the one to find the videos, nothing more or less, realising a lot of people here do not like wiki for basic facts. Very patient to take the time viewing a lot / all, where I just wizzed from point to point.
    I must admit that with American power and landmass, it has little chance of being overrun [ even by desperate Mexicans today] but is not averse to using other situations as a springboard for joining and eventually taking over a fight with a view to imposing it's own desired puppet or to reap the bounty available.[ I believe the video mentioned them thinking about attacking?- Egypt? Perhaps they were hoping to help Madoff with his early pyramid scheme and needed info?
    In protecting one's country in a war situation anything and everything can be used as leverage. Did we Brits have prior knowledge of the Pearl Harbour attack and kept our mouths shut because we knew it would suck you in to WW2, where we were only just keeping our heads above water. It's a theory of some.
    I read further on the web that Netenyahu in Israel and his 5 mossad operatives filming 9/11 in the US seemed pretty pleased with themselves too when that tragedy occurred because it consolidated their relationship with the USA, and that meant more cash and weapons.
    Politics is one dirty dirty game, but to lay the blame on LBJ if true or his closest advisors would be unfair the majority like Elvis having left the building. Perhaps Cheney's and cohorts links to Haliburton etc would explain more about the direction taken by the US under George Bush.
    Strange that after so much interference in foreign affairs placing puppet governments in charge that America should have it's own personal marrionette "running" the show.
    Was that why he was on his knees so much , praying a lot? Everything that was going on was above his capabilities of understanding it.

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  • 379. At 7:59pm on 07 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Ms Marbles I feel is reasonably well informed / travelled / well read and believes in wearing her star pinned to her bustle for all to see, where others in the know tend to hide their light under a bushel, or let it out at reserved moments.
    Those with the stars and lights promoting truth and understanding are to be admired however it emerges, but if you still feel disorientated you can always look my way and just admire the stars in my eyes. No lights visible here but masses of life.

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  • 380. At 8:11pm on 07 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    waterman -

    I guess I can understand Israel wanting to draw the US into their '67 war by any means possible (but understanding is not the same as approving) and I can understand if Britain had done same by way of keeping silent about Pearl Harbor. But in that top video it said there was proof of LBJ saying he wanted the ship "sunk to the bottom, no survivors" and for a "Commander In Chief" to order the deaths of over 100 of his own military men (though he failed in that) in order to have an excuse for entering someone else's war is just, well I can't think of an appropriate word. Just beyond anything. It makes him a monster.

    Had I known about this back in 1972 I would never, ever, have set foot in Israel. But then my entire life would be different and I wouldn't even have the children I have because I wouldn't have become involved with my husband.

    You know, I bet other people have figured this out before me, but life sure is a complicated thing.

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  • 381. At 8:19pm on 07 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    379, waterman -

    I say tartly that if marbles is so well-informed she should stop making flagrantly ignorant remarks, and ought to spend her time honing reading-comprehension skills and practicing some humility so she can behave more decorously when someone corrects her misunderstandings of their comments.

    I much prefer the stars in your eyes to those pinned on anyone's bustle, and you do know where the bustle is worn, don't you?

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  • 382. At 8:47pm on 07 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, is it worn to stop the sunshine?

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  • 383. At 9:03pm on 07 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Bere # 380,
    Never say never ever!
    Life is as you say complicated but it is also what we make it, and of it.
    Every path we decide to travel will have it's rich rewards, failures and heartbreaks. Whether that was some preordained? plan or a fluke of circumstances we will never know. Just hold the good things in your heart that you have experienced [like your husband and the resulting kids]and disregard the unimportant peripheral things that might or might not have run a parallel path too. Tomorrow is another day, and affirs of the heart can overrule the head at any age.
    Re the bustle, I have a good idea and hope that with the help of wiki I will eventually get to the bottom of it. [Arske a silly question and get a silly answer]. At least a bustle beats the modern day desire by some for an enormous "filmstar" backside.

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  • 384. At 10:08pm on 07 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    I am so ignorant and learn so much from this blog. See, I had no idea there is a modern day desire for enormous backsides. Do film stars have them? I'm afraid I don't pay much attention to the backsides of film stars. Never had much of one myself and certainly don't want to acquire a large one now. And how would you acquire one anyway? Implants? Gross.

    Whoever invented the bustle should have been hanged for crimes against humanity.

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  • 385. At 10:10pm on 07 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    I just noticed that we've finally hit on the topic of this thread.

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  • 386. At 11:19pm on 07 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Maybe Freddie Mercury has the answer.

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  • 387. At 11:35pm on 07 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    The big one? Enormous backsides! Is bigger better?..Beauty, eye, beholder etc
    Good things do come in little and big packages, so it is not so much about ones size but more a question of deportment.
    Noticed at the airport here they are advertising D.I.Y body enhancing shots / injections with botox or suchlike. Crazy.
    Michelin with their Michelin man may be good for tyres, road maps, travel guides and the star rating of restaurants but I have no desire to be surrounded by Michelin women.
    I will wish you a good night. Late here and early morning language lessons necessitate a bit of sleep. Till tomorrow. wma

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  • 388. At 00:14am on 08 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    publius, guess I'll never make the world go round, as Queen sings. Is there a place in this world for women with little bony butts? Lucky for me I've never aspired to be more than what I am. Except for envying the First Lady's biceps. Think I may have mentioned, a trainer once told me biceps can't be built out of thin air.

    D.I.Y. body enhancing shots?? That's not only nasty, it's sad. So many people wanting to be somebody else.

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  • 389. At 01:39am on 08 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    Looked at the other thread just now. Same old levantine rathole. What a waste of time.

    Obama is on the right track though - he is changing the terms ofthe debate to move onto what positive things can be done be looking forward. I do not see any forward looking comments in three solid days of postings by people who are stuck in their own tit-for-tat echo chambers. Like Maxwell Smart and the Chief in the Cone-of-Silence, except that was occasionally funny.

    Much rather discuss hockey with Pulius and Timewaits.

    By the way, Publius, I went for a drive in downtown and north end Hamilton today, and its the same thing. Stelco Closed. Dofasco Closed. One of the few remaining big private sector employers on strike. Hundreds of small businesses boarded up, block after block after block of rundown housing. Even Cleveland wasn't this bad last year. Hamilton, like Detroit, is hurting pretty bad.

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  • 390. At 02:03am on 08 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    I know my village doesn't compare with Detroit or Hamilton, but we have had four shops close down, all on our one-block shopping district, all within the last six months. But they were all relatively recent businesses. I had always heard that one had to allow seven years for a business to become profitable, but shops open and close within the year here all the time. So it's hard to tell if those businesses closed because of the recession or would have closed anyway. I've noticed that the shops that sell what real people around here actually use stay in business forever. The old axiom about doing what you love and the money will follow doesn't seem pertinent if you open a store to sell stuff you love but nobody else wants.

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  • 391. At 02:20am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    The Big 3 hits hard on both sides of the border.

    How about those Wings? The guys in the red sweaters certainly looked like the Wings I know. Looking for a 7 game series. Pittsburg is likely to lick their wounds and win at home.

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  • 392. At 03:15am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Just read through the posts. Attempted to do so on the other thread but it became all too much. Thought the KGB comments interesting, hadn't thought of that! We're in the big leagues now!!
    bere - I am in agreement with you on the bustle person. Have had almost exactly the same thoughts.
    detroit - Kept one eye on the game last night. The way they are going, they might win in Pittsburgh. A dilemma - what to do? Home ice would be much nicer.

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  • 393. At 03:38am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Hope you had a pleasant weekend.

    I think Pittsburg will rally at home. Joe Lewis Arena will still be full of fans if Detroit does win at Pittsburg. They bring out the big screens.

    But I still think the win will come at home. Aaron says the NHL wants the extra air time:-)

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  • 394. At 03:51am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    detroit - Excellent week-end thank you. But now it is over, just like that!
    Don't like to think about how the "extra air time" would be arranged.

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  • 395. At 04:00am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    detroit - Talk of the draft on the other thread. Out of interest; if it was instituted, what advice would you give your son?

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  • 396. At 04:17am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Aaron was considering joining the Army after high school graduation. It seemed a simple solution to getting away from his mother. I told him then that I did not bring him into this world to become cannon fodder. Showed him alternatives that worked out very well for him.

    If the draft was re-instated, and he was threatened with induction; I would advise him to find a country without extradition agreements with the U.S. and make a new life for himself. New Zeeland looks like a nice place to live. I would give him my retirement fund if it was needed to get a start for him far from harms way.

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  • 397. At 04:33am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    detroit - I am not surprised to hear you say that. New Zealand should be far enough away, unfortunately also from you, unless you went with him! When my maternal grandmother decided to emigrate, N.Z. was her first choice. After initially agreeing my grandfather backed out, so she bided her time, inherited some money and announced, "I'm going to Canada, are you coming?" That is how that side of my family arrived here!

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  • 398. At 04:41am on 08 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    395. At 04:00am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    "Talk of the draft on the other thread."

    Glanced at it briefly out of curiosity. It's struck me before: isn't it strange that so many of the right espouse 'looking forward' and 'progressiveness' and so on, and yet every solution they propose for a problem harks back to the past?

    BTW, came across this the other day: "When the English notion of humour arrived in Germany, Lessing translated it as Laune. Laune according to Kant means in its best sense 'the talent voluntarily to put oneself into a certain mental disposition in which everything is judged quite differently from the ordinary method and yet in accordance with certain rational principles in such a frame of mind." Or, as it was apparently simplified, just being 'mischievous' with a serious purpose.

    I happen to know that last time there was a secret 'escape route' run, very successfully, mostly by students, from the US via Canada, through the port of Hull to Scandinavia. It might have to be resurrected, though after all this 'War on terror' stuff I can see it might need more ingenuity than it did then.

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  • 399. At 04:48am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    We bring children in this world to pass the torch of life on to them. I am old, comparatively, and have lived a wonderful life. I am far past the age for the draft. I would be fine knowing my son is safe from the lunacy of a mobilized, militant nation.

    We know the price of war. Neither of us find it noble.

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  • 400. At 04:56am on 08 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    396. At 04:17am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit:

    "United States of Sparta" . . .I like that. More like Gotterdammerung (how do you do umlauts?) with a Coca-Cola-ised Valhalla, maybe, in the shape of a mushroom cloud, to my mind.

    Too 'mischievous' for the other thread; I don't want to get embroiled any more. Especially by pointing out that most countries have abandoned conscription (and the use of anything other than a small equivalently trained reservists) for very good reasons.

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  • 401. At 05:01am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    squirrelist - So nice to have you back. Did you enjoy your sojourn?
    We have "dodgers" in Canada now, but times have changed and Pierre Trudeau is not Prime Minister. These people have served in Iraq, seen enough and come here to avoid being sent back. They are fighting their way through the courts. The majority of Canadians are on their side and if the decision was left up to us, we would allow them to stay.
    The Germans are not known for their sense of humour! For some, yet to be explained reason, Canada produces more than her fair share of comedians!

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  • 402. At 05:12am on 08 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    timewaits, maybe it's because canadians don't like to cry?

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  • 403. At 05:17am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 400 squirrellist-

    That's okay. I know where the umlauts are supposed to be.

    One can get Coke-Cola in the McWendywhopper feasting halls of our Valhalla. The place of warrior dreams in distant, embattled lands.

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  • 404. At 05:22am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Have I mentioned recently we need a change of government?

    squirrelist - Stay in the kitchen and entertain us with your mischievousness. Pay no attention to those outside these doors. That's my advice!

    Canada was busily down grading the armed forces when 911 came along and we were pressured and lectured and bullied. We apparently were not pulling our weight. Well, over one hundred killed in Afghanistan. I don't see how that is helping. We prefer to be Peace Keepers!

    It's complicated, but here you go!

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  • 405. At 05:22am on 08 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    timwaits, nice to see you back by the way. We need an injection of your humour again after the nonsense we've endured on other threads this weekend.

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  • 406. At 05:40am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - Was that suppose to link to something? Let me guess, because we're big girls?

    405 - Thank you, and I noticed! I'll do the best I can!

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  • 407. At 05:44am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    I had forgotten that there were so many that crossed the border.

    The problem is compounded now because the soldiers are deserters. Dodgers did not involve the military directly. The military does not like losing people who they invested time and money. P was going to be charged with desertion from a theater of war for her little foray into Bahrain during the Persian Gulf War. I had to do some pretty fancy dancing to get that one reduced to absent without leave.

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  • 408. At 05:44am on 08 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    timewaits, I merely meant that laughing was the better option - thus the comedians.

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  • 409. At 05:52am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    If you can get CBC in your neck of Idaho, check out the Winnepeg, Montreal, and Halifax Comedy Festivals. Lots of very good, Canadian comics. Probably available on the CBC website, come to think of it.

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  • 410. At 05:54am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    I did check in over the week-end on our new Island computer. I was writing a terribly witty post about how the monitor is to crisp and clear and bright! [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator].......!! click here, and of the difficulties I was having with the French!! keyboard. But then made the mistake of hitting refresh. Gone! so went back outside.

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  • 411. At 06:07am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    So now you have bilingal fingers?

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  • 412. At 06:09am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - We have the ability to be funny and to find things funny. We are not very serious people!! (You've seen the Rick Mercer Report.) When my eldest son was 17 he drove with two friends to Florida. We of course were concerned for their safety. One friend is extremely quick witted and can be very amusing so I took him aside to remind him, "Americans have no sense of humour, be very careful." Sorry detroit. He said, "I know."
    I'm not considered amusing in the States!! Believe me I know from first hand experience!!

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  • 413. At 06:21am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Well my unsuitable URL was to, "I gotta wear shades." Perhaps they are not fans!!

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  • 414. At 06:25am on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Hey! I find you very amusing! Of course, I've been exposed to Canadian wit and humor all my life.

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  • 415. At 06:25am on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    detroit - Not very! as I found out. The post was taking forever to type.
    And now I must go to bed.

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  • 416. At 1:52pm on 08 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Re-read your post at 377. Never crossed my mind to think you were being disagreeable.

    William Claude Dukenfield in one of his rare lucid moments once remarked "Attitude is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than what people do or say. It is more important than appearance, giftedness, or skill."
    A multitude of different attitudes, manners, dispositions, and postures do appear on the blog. Some threatening, negative, pompous or aggresive looking for trouble, where others are informative, relaxed, pleasant, positive, seeking harmony in all. Black, white or shades of grey, each adds to an understanding of the fuller picture in my minds eye..
    Recently I noted a minor merging of thought from both the cloned camp and the opposing faction that made differentiation and the associated understanding more complicated. But even more dissorientating is the dog biting dog occurrences that are happening when both the hounds run in the same pack.
    I am finding it more and more difficult to spot the aliens and those from another planet these days.
    Do you feel this calls for drastic action to be taken?.
    It worked before.. Maybe it will still work today.
    Sorting out the wheat from the chaff
    One can but try. Have a great day.

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  • 417. At 2:37pm on 08 Jun 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:

    391 Publius.

    Unfortunately I didn't see the game. I have reliable reports that the Wings were a changed team - came out and sent a message after the unsettling collapse in the 2nd period the other night in Pittsburg.

    Heard it was nasty in places, too - that Malkin threw a very dirty elbow, and when he came back on received a glove and a butt end in the face the first time they dropped the puck. Apparently the Ref didn't see it, but the CBC sure did.


    Don't know what's going to happen in Hamilton (Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, Akron, Dayton, Gary, Flint, Oshawa, Buffalo ...) . I can't see it ever being the way it was. I have seen industrial cities in the north of England whose industrial base disappeared. Or the Clyde. There was a time when 90% of the world's shipping was built on the Clyde. Now those places are trying to re-make themselves as something else. Grim.

    Read your postings about the draft, too. I have decidedly mixed feelings on that. There is no doubt in my mind that WWII was necessary, and we did the right thing. Because of my heritage, I am favorably pre-disposed toward the Navy, and its long history. If we aren't prepared as a society to raise whatever force of arms is required to maintain our security we will slowly (or maybe not so slowly) lose that security. Every civilization that has come and gone has had to face this inescapable truth - and the truth that you can't maintain armed forces if your economy is weak.

    The thing is though, you might be able to accept that for yourself, and do your duty. Yet when it some right down to it, when it's your child, well, it isn't so abstract.

    We have some friends whose son was, and is, both a great student of history, particularly military history. He is a pretty good athlete at serious sports. He is pretty sharp academically. You could tell from the way he played sports that he was very cool under pressure, and would be a good man in a tight spot. He stood at or very close to the top of his class all through high school. He has a toughness, and a calmness. From the time has was very little he wanted to join the army. And, to be fair, there is no reason to believe he wouldn't have done extremely well at it. He could very easily have ended up as CDS (Chief of Defense Staff = CIGS in th UK or CJCS in the US).

    Yet his parents looked down that road. They didn't like what they saw. Everybody knows that enlistment means one, or perhaps several, trips to Afghanistan. His Dad and Mom convinced him not to go to RMC, and to take different courses.

    Well, that was a pretty morose posting, wasn't it?

    Monday morning.
    Better get down to it.

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  • 418. At 2:53pm on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Morning All - Another beautiful day, on the cool side but sunny and not a cloud in the sky.
    detroit - I meant first encounters while in the US. I've received puzzled looks, responses showing the person missed the humour or irony and once someone slowly backing away!! Many a time I've remarked to my family, "Well, that didn't go over well." They wish I would stop trying! It works better in the UK.

    Husband M has just sent me an email inviting me to "be his friend" on Facebook! I have no idea why?

    waterman - Bom dia/Boa tarde. Do we have an agent provocateur(s)? "Inciting (me) to commit illegal acts," will not be easy. I'm frustrating that way!

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  • 419. At 3:38pm on 08 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    416, waterman -

    Was your link meant to imply that drastic action means loving those one can't stand? I don't think I can do that; I'd have to put it on my list of things to be pissed off about.

    timewaits -

    Glad you're back. How is a French keyboard different? Do they not do QWERTY?

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  • 420. At 4:04pm on 08 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    lol time 395 what makes you think america could get away with a male only draft these days.
    If they try I'll be at the steps of the grand court house telling them they are a bunch of sexist twits.
    No next time america drafts it drafts it's daughters as well.

    Lets see how Gun Ho they are then.

    Water good link over there (note the liar is back saying there is nothing in wiki with people being shot at.
    (Again my thing to the mods is when it is a blatant lie and we all read it why print it.

    I see others are falling for the legion switch back.

    back to something I do like. first one is CLASS with all capitals.

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  • 421. At 4:40pm on 08 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Do french keyboards have extra keys to contain the accents and cedillas, or do they just not work in august?

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  • 422. At 4:47pm on 08 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    bere, maybe wma meant one of these. I like the flail option.

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  • 423. At 4:48pm on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref417 InterestedForeigner

    My viewpoint on serving ones country deserves a little more explaination.

    Aaron graduated in 2006. If he were to have entered the Armed Services at that time it would have been most likely that he would be sent to Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither of us see those theaters as wars our nation should have started. Afghanistan is Vietnam revisited. It is a warrior society of tribes that have kicked every invader in the butt since Alexander the Great. (Who did not stick around long after his supposed victory)

    Sadaam was being contained by sanctions and inspections. I knew Al Qaida was not in Iraq. Sadaam held his power absolute. He was not about to let anyone else share power. The religions in his country were held very closely in check. I knew there would be a power struggle once he was removed, because there was no organized opposition that could step in place. Sadaam did not allow any opposition party to form. These are wars for the sake of having war.

    Aaron will serve his country willingly if there is a true threat to our nation. I doubt anything I could say would keep him from joining the service in that case. But for now, we are engaged in folly and mired down in Afghanistan and Iraq without a clear, obtainable mission. A formula for failure.

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  • 424. At 4:57pm on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    To answer my question as to why I was invited to "be a friend," M just called and said he has no idea. He does not use Facebook very often and was "pushing buttons." Who knows who else he invited - should be amusing. He updated his page a while ago by entering additional information including his status as: married. Received messages from long lost friends offering their congratulations!! One went so far as to ask, "Anyone we know?" OMG we laughed! thinking about the 50 something year old guys all being envious!

    bere - The letter placement is the same but not the symbols. In the post that "went the way of the wind" I finally admitted defeat in locating the question mark and number sign. Could not find the "end" key until I realized I should be looking for "fin," etc. It was slow going.

    Re: "loving" - Perhaps killing them with kindness.

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  • 425. At 5:00pm on 08 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    what I love is the way the Mods will let them attack and then defend them when equal replies are posted. Fine if they are to allow the curious rants on but to stifle the responses is a bit in the strange zone.

    (and I'm talking as human to human not those strange creatures fake indignation.

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  • 426. At 5:05pm on 08 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Our governor, Jennifer Granholm, has layed out a very good plan for the re-developement of our state. She has been able to bring in new companies developing new technologies.

    Unfortunately, Granholm is faced with the type of rabid Republican opposition that seems to want our nation to fail. They have been obstructive in every way to any kind of progress not introduced by them; and they offer no plan at all except to be obstructive.

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  • 427. At 5:14pm on 08 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Timewaits # 418
    For this old heart of mine, I find the comments from yourself, Bere and Aqua always to be more amusing interesting and exciting than inciting. Noticing with Aqua on holiday I am getting an extra couple of days grace before having to change the batteries in the pace-maker. Hence the enjoyable extra time available at the computer to respond.
    Bere # 419
    Not at all. To be honest I got short shrift myself from the schoolmarm wearing the bustle. Simpatico she is not.
    You have obviously never seen the movie Mars attacks . A send up of many B movies in the past. Aliens / extra terrestials / suffered from exploding brains after listening to the song. It rang a bell with all the ranting and fighting on the blog and felt it appropriate. I had hoped it might work.
    If you read to the end of the wiki plot info it also mentions "tipis".
    I wonder if I am subconciously beginning to worry where Ed has dissappeared to?

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  • 428. At 5:39pm on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    420 happy/jack - Thanks for pointing that out. Must think outside the box! - more to be concerned about!
    Love your messages! This is a Takeover, Babylon Shall Fall.

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  • 429. At 5:39pm on 08 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Happy's rain has finally arrived. And cold rain it is too.

    I have derided a couple of posters recently, but I should add a retraction. Many of us were under the impression that happy was a frog producing blacksmith from oregon, who had previously posted under a different name. Thanks to the superhuman efforts of the dynanamic duo, whose slogan is Truth, Justice and the Israeli way, this fraud has now been outed as a frog producing blacksmith from oregon, who had previously posted under a different name. Great work guys.

    We can now sleep safely in our beds.

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  • 430. At 6:12pm on 08 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    4 times I have tried to post a list of links and quotes from such to show that clearly the state of Israel was and is a Jewish state and that this very point is one of the Major stumbling blocks in the peace process. but rather than print the links the BBC mod has removed them. Even when I removed my comments to the posters.

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  • 431. At 6:13pm on 08 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    happy, I notice a number of your posts disappearing. It must be because they are too pro-I. After all, as everyone knows, the bbc are very anti-I. It's the only explanation!

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  • 432. At 6:14pm on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - Hardly an expert on French keyboards as I said. They do have an e/E acute (aigu) key plus "dead" keys - meaning you hit the key for the accent and then the letter key. Therefore two strokes for one letter. Being used to an English keyboard it does make things complicated when you expect one thing and get another. Typing short sentences in French as I sometimes do, requires a lot of stopping, starting and "alt+130/138-ing," etc. As I said, slow going.
    If someone send me something using a French keyboard and I add the English translation, spell check queries all the English words!! It's covered in red lines.

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  • 433. At 6:45pm on 08 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    lol time the draft thing was my back up plan to end the war had the Goppers decided to go for the draft.

    I did the Take over Sorry;) but as I wrote to Pub the situation was getting stupid . and the mods were the cause of it.

    Sean ,and turtles

    And recently not yet photographed a nice comfy chair for me to rest in.

    I suspect after the other thread I'll be asked to change names again;)

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  • 434. At 6:47pm on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    waterman - "This Old Heart of Mine" (Not that it has!) I'm suspicious about your age! But I'll find out when you pick me up at the Lisboa airport!! (Notice how my Portuguese is coming along?) Have I told you what an entertaining house guest I am? Not good with heights but I can garden.
    Re: Ed - I'm afraid to ask happy/jack as I also find it strange and a little unsettling.

    429 seanspa - Oh dear! You mean there's two!! How do we tell them apart?

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  • 435. At 6:50pm on 08 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    Note house rules

    Likely to "provoke"
    is against the rules. YET?

    I mean mention carter and you get a diatribe from gherky over him.
    Is it not impossible to avoid provoking them.

    Are their comments in general just provocations.

    This seems to me the crux of dealing with the offensive posters. But does that mean by asking a question we are provoking . (I want no answers or else I could be said to be provoking an answer).

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  • 436. At 6:54pm on 08 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    Sean lol on the safely in beds I just realised "wait but I hardly tried to pretend I was anyone else anyway."

    Only A complete Maroon would have not noticed straight away.

    Wait but lets think . Who was it that seemed surprised by it. OHHH the dynamic do o

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  • 437. At 7:01pm on 08 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

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  • 438. At 7:09pm on 08 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Looks like another interesting day at the coalface.

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  • 439. At 7:45pm on 08 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    sean the HUGE number of missing posts were the re attempts to get the evidence I was presenting on the table.

    I have found this rather annoying technique that seems to get the mods attention. I save it for when I have legitimate complaint about their weird one sidedness in certain arguments.
    They saw fit to admit the post which was no great revelation but I was convinced and determined to see written after the blatant lies of the scotch git and the door matt were allowed to stand.

    Lol time " two too many"

    No need to tell them apart .

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  • 440. At 8:37pm on 08 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    timewaits # 434
    Thanks for the attempt at sending "This old heart of mine"[ video?]
    Unfortunately it would appear that other moderators have their finger in the pie here too about what is allowed to be viewed. Entering Utube I am informed that the video is unavailable for this area. Lots of other versions but not "the" one.
    If memory serves me right it, the unobtainable classic was originally recorded by the Isely / Isley Brothers. 1966- First daughter 18months.
    Hopefully when you arrive all the building work will be out of the way unless you are planning to come in the next 3 weeks.
    No guest is ever required to suffer in the garden, although getting up out of the patio loungers to pick your own fresh figs etc might be necessary. Hope you like Vinho Verde. Despite good portuguese reds [ Dao etc] they give me a headache so I avoid them.
    Promised rain today though nothing has turned up yet. 37C wednesday and the week ahead which probably according to the long term forecast and previous summers, we are looking good until October.
    Hope you like salt water. Do not forget the water-wings! Enough info I hope. Ate logo. [see you soon}

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  • 441. At 8:59pm on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa & happy - All that is very interesting. Where were they when it was apparent to others jack=happy? Not here obviously.
    So... how is it they all appear at the same time and only when Israel is discussed? How do they know Israel is/will be on the agenda? Do they introduce it? I don't have the inclination to read back through all the posts to see who first introduced the topic. When they are accused of doing so they always blame someone else. They go after happy - because he is the biggest threat? And now seanspa. It appears so organized. Almost a feeding frenzy.
    And, why should you (h/j) be required to change your name if you are responding to the provokers?
    I'm counting on you two (three counting both happys) to come to my defence, should it be required. My tactic will be to ignore them - they hate that!

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  • 442. At 9:18pm on 08 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    During your earlier short absence I was avidly scouring all previous sites you frequented looking for clues to a possible new sign in name.
    Not being clued in to modern expressions I automatically checked each posters history. Amazing how many use LOL these days. What does it mean? Laid out Liberal?. Lots of Love? Loads of laughs? Leave out lying? Last one leaving [living].Lying obnoxious l...... Knowing you I expect you have it with different meanings dependent upon the poster
    In an earlier discussion I thought you would have returned as Jackhammer etc. Consequently with metals in mind the "steelpulses" etc of this site and those arriving were immediatly checked. All to no avail because you fortunately returned.
    Hoping your premonitions about being required to change your name again are incorrect. Hope you keep the fires burning as of old while avoiding the bellows....

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  • 443. At 9:25pm on 08 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    waterman - Sorry to hear you could not view/listen to it. It sounds just as great as you remember. Yes, Isley Brothers 1966.
    I have no plans to be in Portugal in the next three weeks. You'd be some surprised though, if I said I had!! I will be the perfect guest and suffer through the patio loungers with no complaint! 37 is a little on the high side, I'll come in the cooler weather.
    The beauty of this is, should I declare my intention to visit, you can very apologetically say you are booked on a Mediterranean cruise. Or come and get me at the airport! - Your choice!
    Ate logo! timewaits

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  • 444. At 9:51pm on 08 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Well, I'm sitting here in the bookstore cafe, using their wireless, having a coffee, some sort of Mexican brew, because everyone in Vermont who gets their internet by way of our illustrious phone company is off line until no one knows when. Came here mainly to send an email to my sister but just finished reading all posts since this morning. I'm reluctant to click on anyone's links for fear of startling the little old lady sitting practically at my elbow.

    If happy knows how to contact Ed, I wish he would, as I am a worrier.

    I see the very loud quieter thread has gone over 500 posts. Might have a peak at it before I head home, or might not.

    If the kitchen is redecorated before I manage to return, please leave very broad hints as to its whereabouts. Or I could just check every thread with a new posting.

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  • 445. At 10:01pm on 08 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    I did take a peak at the other thread. Wow, happy, ten referred posts in a row! Is that a record? Were you deliberately being provocative in order to get a place in the Guinness Book?

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  • 446. At 11:13pm on 08 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    timewaits # 443
    Cruising I left behind me many, many decades ago when ships were ships and not floating horizontal skyscrapers. I needed to feel the warm sun on my face during the cold winter months. Can't complain now.
    Also no Mediterranean plans- the Mrs gets seasick going from Calais to Dover even when it's as calm as a millpond.
    Invitation stays open. Lisboa airport just a 3 hour drive.

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  • 447. At 00:20am on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Oh waterman! - Obrigada, I'll start saving my pennies. And here I was giving you an easy out! If we keep corresponding like this my vocabulary should be up to 100 words by the time my plans are made. Have you checked with Mrs. wma? Or does she also invite her blogging friends? You can parade me around as your friend from Canada! Your neighbours will be impressed. "All the way from Canader!" (If they're British.) They will tell me how they/their brother/daughter was once in Winnipeg/Toronto/Vancouver. Maybe even Montreal!
    Interesting... last winter before I met you, was thinking of going to Portugal.

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  • 448. At 00:46am on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    It's that time of year already!

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  • 449. At 01:03am on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - It is? Do they not go to the end of June? Or is this now exam time? The official last day of school here (being Quebec) is the day before our "National" holiday St. Jean Baptiste on June 24th. Most schools are finished before then, but none ever continue after the 24th.

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  • 450. At 01:13am on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    The boys finished at 12:30 today. Allowing for the 2 weeks extra they are going to have while we are in the UK, that's it for school until September 22nd. Unbelievable but true!

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  • 451. At 01:45am on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - What? explain that to me again. When are you going to the UK, now or in September?

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  • 452. At 04:14am on 09 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    lol how about

    wow takes me back.opps I mean it takes him back,
    not him ,

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  • 453. At 04:26am on 09 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    "All the way from Canader!" (If they're British.)

    OO RRR Or if they're from Devorn.

    Time they the "they" people of the blog bring it up like gannets they land and uhhh up comes the subject of their attention.
    They go for me cause I paint a target on my side. and they are suckers.
    they think I'm fik an stopid.

    you ask where they were when I did a Doctor Who.... studiously avoiding it

    MA thinks so because I'm a blacksmith. therefore a few bricks short of a coal shed. That's fine by me the blacksmith I linked to on the other thread is over rated and well there's not much more to say on him. ' cetpt his hammer handles are too short;)

    sean bring em over for an introduction in the black arts;)

    Bere lol ten is that all. well I was not checking at that stage I was stuck on the first page before the next ( it would be nice if they fixed that bit, i'd call it broke) I was as i explained just getting through to the mod that was being so obstructive .

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  • 454. At 05:04am on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    happy - But where are they when not here? At training school? I don't understand their purpose. They are certainly not winning my heart and mind if that is their reason d'etre.
    Is this blog a practice ground for if/when they graduate and go out into the real world to fulfil, whatever their purpose is?
    Are they trying to earn gold stars for the amount of discord they can sow here? Or are they simply disagreeable people?
    Is that how it is pronounced? Devorn (with an r)? Never sure with your typing.

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  • 455. At 05:49am on 09 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    time I'm not sure where they are i think preparing scripts for next time.
    The R was there because in Devon they add a R to anything.

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  • 456. At 06:03am on 09 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

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  • 457. At 06:15am on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    timewaits, we leave for the uk early august. So the boys get to spend a good part of the summer in idaho, and then pretty well the same time again in the uk.

    School really is out here.

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  • 458. At 06:26am on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Ooh, posts get through moderation almost instantaneously. Shame everyone else is asleep.

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  • 459. At 06:35am on 09 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    boy what do parents do over there that they have time for the kids all summer

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  • 460. At 06:36am on 09 Jun 2009, happylaze wrote:

    I bet Legion is awake

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  • 461. At 06:50am on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    Legion's busy updating their script - it's been torpedoed and machine-gunned, and is now full of holes.

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  • 462. At 07:42am on 09 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    461. At 06:50am on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa:

    Could be sudden deprivation of oxygen all round, but I doubt it. I wonder if the mods would allow "Oh, go stick your head in a wine vat!" sometime?

    They are all awaiting a new email of bullet points, like the last one, headed: "Dear friends, We hold the [sic] military supremacy, yet fail the battle over the international media. We need to buy time for the IDF to succeed, and the least we can do is spare some (additional) minutes on the net. The ministry of foreign affairs is putting great efforts in balancing the media, but we all know it's a battle of numbers. The more we post, blog, talkback, vote the more likely we gain positive sentiment.

    Or, the louder and more often you shout, the more likely you are to carry your argument, if you want the cynical version.

    (No point in posting a link to that, I suspect.)

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  • 463. At 10:50am on 09 Jun 2009, TrueToo wrote:

    292. Gary_A_Hill,

    As usual, you hit the nail on the head. Thanks for that.

    313. publiusdetroit,

    You "knew them very well" but they didn't recognise your voice?

    355. watermanaquarius,

    That was a really foul comment. Knowing you, you'll apologise for it and then come up with something worse.

    And your 367 would take some beating as a pompous and patronising remark.

    I didn't say "armchair psychologist," if you think about it.

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  • 464. At 11:49am on 09 Jun 2009, watermanaquarius wrote:

    Good morning all,
    Wonderful day today, getting all the noisy breaking work out of the way while the little lady has her piano lessons. As all you builders / home improvers realise now comes the worst part- clearing up the rubbish.
    Speaking of noise and rubbish, I believe I heard one of the cuckoos here in the kitchen this morning. Nice, pretty birds, secretive they say with a wide repertoire of calls. Majority raise their own chicks but of course there are always the brood parasites, where the eventual result is that the chicks of the host bird get booted out of the nest. Sounds like some other world species I know..
    If I was not so busy getting the house in order, perhaps the ideal would be to stuff it and clock it. That said, I am not so sure that living with it's call every 15 minutes, plus the extra beekiness on the full hour combined with the piano music of Chopin would be good.
    But, being a believer in valuing all the creatures on this planet [I really did find a scorpion a few weeks back and took him to another pasture instead of killing it] I am forced to re-think all possibilities and ask for help.
    Please, is there anyone out there with music for Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture, opus 49, for all instruments including the guns and the cannons that can just be played on a piano to muffle the unwanted bird sounds?. Failing that, if I did install a cuckoo clock in the house is there any way of controlling the irritating noise without wringing it's neck?.
    Must now go and collect the Mrs. Lesson ends midday. Back soon

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  • 465. At 1:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Morning all - Pouring rain here this morning. Everything is so green it looks like Ireland!

    waterman - Ah yes, the clean up! Not my favourite part nor forte, but very rewarding when finished.

    seanspa - I am a wee bit concerned about the education system in Idaho! I presume they return after Labour Day and thereby have a three month summer vacation. Why? Is this short year to save money? And what are they doing for three months, other than not being in school? Quebec has 188 school days. With all the Ped Days now, school starts end of August.

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  • 466. At 1:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    timewaits, schools do return after the labour day weekend. I don't think that idaho is much different to the rest of the usa. I believe that the total number of school days is something like 180. We don't get the week-long half terms that exist in the uk, and get one week 'spring break' rather than 2 weeks at easter. The effect is that it is one long summer!

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  • 467. At 2:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - There is an approx. 10 day break at Christmas, two week Spring/March break and 4 days at Easter (plus Ped days and snow days!). Teachers and students need some time off during the year. What do the kids do for three months? And the parents? I wouldn't think summer camps start until the end of June. What are your sons' plans until they leave for the UK?

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  • 468. At 2:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Good morning. Pouring rain here too. Internet's back, but just noticed that a small charge on my phone bill for a service I have called twice to have cancelled and was removed from last month's bill is back on the current bill. What a phone company!

    waterman, I have seen "Mars Attacks" but it was long, long ago and all I remembered from it was Martians running around making "ack ack" noises and a small dog with Sarah Jessica Parker's head.

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  • 469. At 2:52pm on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    I'm previousl years the boys have split there time between their grandfather, summer day camps and week-long camps.

    Initially we used the school district out of hours program, but they found this pretty boring, so they then started at a local church camp that a friend of theirs used. Apparently the 15 mins of happy clappy singing was a price worth paying for the rest of the program, which they really enjoyed.

    This summer they will be based at home, with sean doing a soccer summer fitness camp at the high school, then golfing at the local country club (his grandfather is a member), then gardening for the neighbours. Harry will be working in our garden - until it is a garden. It's currently a deer feeding wilderness.

    Then there will be swimming and fishing in hayden lake, visiting the local theme park, taking the dog for long walks, and hopefully some camping.

    Both will also be doing schoolwork to make sure that when they do finally return to school they do not have any catching up to do.

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  • 470. At 2:52pm on 09 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa, I got a real kick out of your comments at 526 and 531 on the supposedly quieter thread.

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  • 471. At 2:53pm on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    happy's rain came and went, and the sun is back. 72F expected today.

    Oh, I forgot, sleeping in!

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  • 472. At 3:06pm on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - I think phone companies (as well as credit card) are notorious for that. M. received a call from Amex yesterday telling him he had not paid the yearly service fee on a card he cancelled two years ago. They accepted the cancellation (although still wanted the fee, bit of a squabble over that), whereas a few years ago they would have pressured him to keep the card.

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  • 473. At 3:47pm on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    seanspa - This is the camp my sons attended. It is really fabulous and the boys have a lot of freedom to choose what they would like to do/learn. They acquired many skills on five day long canoe trips. They can chop wood, build a fire, do the "J" stroke (a canoeing term in case you are unfamiliar) and perhaps survive the wilderness for at least a couple of days! They really enjoyed it.
    I highly recommend it.

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  • 474. At 3:58pm on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    timewaits, that camp looks great. Sean has usually gone on scout camp, and last year's was in oregon near crater lake. This year they were due to go to camp parsons, just west of seattle, but sadly it starts as we leave.

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  • 475. At 4:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:


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  • 476. At 4:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:

    Lol Folk It seems that dr who has happened again. Now isn't that strange just when I wrote them long posts to have them disappear.

    Yet legion remains unmolested un effected?


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  • 477. At 4:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Timewaitsfornoman and Seanspa-

    The U.S. school calendar harkens back to our once agrarian society. Children were needed on the farm during the summer months to labor in the fields, orchards, and gardens. My small town school would be out by the end of May.

    Taking in hay would start not long after that. Beans, sugar beets, and corn would be up and need the attention of a long-handled hoe when hay was in the barn. Wheat and oats would be harvested and the straw taken in while the row crops were also being cultivated. One last dance through the row crops with the long-handled hoe and a couple weeks rest before a second cutting of hay was gathered. Plowing the wheat and oat stubble took up another week. Maybe a week off, then back to school around Labor Day.

    The U.S. is still locked in nineteenth century teaching methods while trying to educate students to meet the needs of the twenty-first century. Many educators are struggling to change this. My sister and neice are amoung the very active reformers.

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  • 478. At 4:48pm on 09 Jun 2009, seanspa wrote:

    There is talk of having something like 6 semesters spread through the year, and also of 4 day weeks. I suspect that change, if it ever happens, will be prompted by a cost saving for the school district rather than any other consideration.

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  • 479. At 4:53pm on 09 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:

    Comments short this morning because I was wasting time without even a notice to say I've been kicked.

    Now how the hell is that.
    The fibbers are lying like mad and definitely "provoking" I'd complain but I wasted enough time with this crap for one day(well Ok not quite yet.)

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  • 480. At 5:05pm on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    happy - It's getting hard to keep up with your personas. I was wondering if you were number 54? (Probably before your time but detroit and bere will remember!)

    detroit - I read a report on something that has always puzzled me - Why does school start so early in the morning and what's with the bells.
    Students are expected to not only be there, but up and operational before 8:30. And, to respond to the ringing of bells. Who has a work environment like that? As the report informed me - factory workers!! The children of whom public schools were set up to educate. So isn't that wonderful, the system is turning out farm and factory workers!
    No bells is one of the many things I love about my sons' former school. How revoluntionary - the students are encouraged to learn to tell the time!!

    Weather update: It is pouring out!

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  • 481. At 5:06pm on 09 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:

    Ref 463 TrueToo

    "You "knew them very well" but they didn't recognise your voice?"

    My little town had a population of about 850 people. I knew every single one of them, and they knew me. There were 54 students in my graduating class. I started school with about 35 of them; the others joined us in the nineth grade from one-room country schools. I knew each of these kids almost as well as I know my brother and sisters. I only dated two girls from my town because it was like dating my sisters. (Seemed too weird) I went to nearby towns to date.

    I left my town for the city at age seventeen. I returned to live there for a year when my parents needed help on the farm. I've lived rather far away from the "Thumb" for the rest of my life.

    A couple of years ago, while milling around Comerica Park before a Tiger baseball game, I heard a familiar voice. The man had his back to me, but I knew who it was. I had not seen my old schoolmate for more than thirty years, but I still knew his voice when I heard it in a large crowd. We greeted each other like long-lost brothers.

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  • 482. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:

    480 Not my deal. And I am off to smack some metal. Give the dweeb gary some time to try to pretend he could create friction in his head by shaking it.

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  • 483. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:

    Time important tactic that getting kicked. you see now my past replies wont be mine;)

    Pub lol I phone people and they say some one elses name. I laugh. and say "does he sound like a limey?"

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  • 484. At 5:31pm on 09 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:

    See how long I can stay in this skin.

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  • 485. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Education reform in the U.S. is always a struggle. Local schoolboards often fight the state and federal governments when attempts are made to reform. All too often with good cause. It is mostly a political-economic battle. Local boards want to determine how there local school tax revenues are spent. State and federal authorities want to determine how the money they distribute to schools is spent. The forces battle one another at the expense of the children.

    A good example of this is the "No Child Left Behind" program. Costly, wasteful, and ineffective are milder terms that come to my mind.

    There was a young woman in the school where my sister teaches. The young woman had failed to graduate at eighteen. She began dancing at a "top-less" bar in a nearby city, making loads of money. The 'stripper' returned to school in the fall and began recruiting other young women turning eighteen in their senior year. The 'stripper' had no intention of ever meeting the requirements to graduate. High school was too profitable for her to quit. (She also received Social Security benefits that would cease if she were not attending school) She used the "No Child Left Behind" program to keep herself enrolled in high school for another two years, getting money for each new, young woman she recruited for the "top-less" bar, and selling drugs on campus.

    The school district was unable to get rid of her, even though she was a terrible student, until the 'stripper' was busted for selling drugs in school.

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  • 486. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:

    I never got this one in last night Time

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  • 487. At 5:41pm on 09 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    timewaits -

    That's the first I've seen of Car 54 (though had heard of it). That was Herman Munster driving that car!

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  • 488. At 5:48pm on 09 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    seanspa -

    A certain someone (well, more than one) on the other thread has no sense of humor and seems to resent witty sarcasm. I don't! Keep it up! Your posts are practically the only ones worth reading on that other thread.

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  • 489. At 5:53pm on 09 Jun 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:


    Yes. I do remember Car 54. How could you remember? You must have just been a baby then;-)

    Well. Spent too long on this lunch break. We had the storms last night that you are gettin today. There were tornado warnings posted as they swept across the "Mitten". Hope you are not getting those.

    It's sunny and in the 70's (21c) today. Back to work.

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  • 490. At 6:12pm on 09 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:

    Gotta say that gary is dense.

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  • 491. At 6:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, U13971622 wrote:

    54 - 46 whats my number.
    I'm not sure myself anymore;)

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  • 492. At 6:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Well, here I am trying to post a link to an op-ed piece in the NY Times about the expulsion of Jews from Egypt (since there are those who claim Jews were never expelled from Arab countries). I don't want to try this on the other thread where it is more relevant because I have no idea if it's going to work.

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  • 493. At 7:16pm on 09 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Maybe I'm just a conspiracy theorist but I find myself suspecting every new poster of being happy in disguise. Unless they're obviously on the propaganda team.

    And speaking of that, some people have pointed out that MAII seems to change personality at times, almost nice sometimes (I don't read his posts so don't know about this), which does indicate that his posts at least are the work of more than one person. Different shifts in the propaganda room perhaps. I find this wholly credible. Blogs are the ideal venue in which to spread official propaganda.

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  • 494. At 7:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    Since the wallpaper here is beginning to peel, I thought we might try, in a little bit, the galley on that ship yonder (from August). I'll send it scooting into line.

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  • 495. At 8:31pm on 09 Jun 2009, squirrelist wrote:

    494. At 7:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, bere54

    Looks fine. Best way of avoiding seasickness I was told once was to keep your eyes on the horizon and ignore the nasty waves close by, so it's quite appropriate.

    (Think it works; tried it in a force 10 crossing the Channel on a hovercraft and it worked. Meant to try it in a force 11, but I fell asleep and only woke up when the boat docked.)

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  • 496. At 8:53pm on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    happy/jack 54-46 14 and all - I'm sure this goes without saying, I much prefer when you are nice. I don't know that many read your posts when you are not. And you start typing so fast, it really is difficult to follow.
    You have so many interesting things to say but get sidetracked by the others. You have explained your reasons, but in the meantime you are not offering us your insight.

    Enjoyed the Ambrosia ads. My mother would make rice pudding often - with raisins. I'm sure not as good as what is made in Devon, but I liked it.

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  • 497. At 9:05pm on 09 Jun 2009, bere54 wrote:

    I just had to google hovercraft. I had thought it was a science fiction thing. There is so much I don't know. Guess that's from spending so much time immersed in the 19th century. Where, by the way, in a book from 1881 that I'm reading now a character just ate a potato. Not a potatoe.

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  • 498. At 9:07pm on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - I think they are all happy!
    I have read MA posts (in the past) and some are nicer than the norm. I do not understand the reasoning behind his nastiness, only puts Americans in a bad light. But perhaps that is the purpose. Same with the others. They project the image that Pro-Israel types are rude and narrow-minded. Again maybe that is what they want us to believe. But they are so over-the-top we wouldn't believe them if they said the sky was blue!

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  • 499. At 11:07pm on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    bere - In preparation for our sea voyage, I am reliving the memories of our crossing from Folkstone to Boulogne. Also took the Hook of Holland to Harwick UK ferry, but that was many moons ago. (Too numerous to mention!!)
    Just realized, you want to be on that ship so we can talk about Jack Sparrow!!

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  • 500. At 11:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:

    Not the type of galley I was looking for, but this should do us nicely!! What do you think?
    (Hope this works, the URL is about ten miles long!)

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