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Blwyddyn Newydd Dda!

Betsan Powys | 19:46 UK time, Thursday, 31 December 2009

A happy new year to you from Treorchy!

Whether you live in Wales and love it, live in Wales and wish you didn't or wish you ran it, have left Wales but wish you hadn't had to, have left Wales and never intend to get stuck here again ... yet haven't quite got away ... thank you.

Whether you comment because you just have to as soon as you've finished reading, whether you comment because you have to whether you've read the entry or not really, whether you comment because others who've commented have got it so very wrong, whether you'd never even consider commenting because of all those others who seem so sure they've got it right ... thank you for being 'here' at all.

Blwyddyn newydd dda i chi un ag oll.

To those who had a year to forget in 2009 and to all of those who could do with a cracker this year - I wish you a very, very happy 2010.

Comments

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  • 1. At 8:16pm on 31 Dec 2009, nomorepowers wrote:

    Have a successful and happy 2010 Betsan.


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  • 2. At 8:33pm on 31 Dec 2009, Notonationalism wrote:

    Thanks for putting up with us all, Betsan! I hope you have a happy and peaceful 2010.

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  • 3. At 9:43pm on 31 Dec 2009, Crossroads wrote:

    Betsan.
    Cast your mind back to those balmy days in July 2007.

    Do you remember the titles of some of your blogs during that July?

    Just to refresh your memory....(and possibly cause no little embarrassment) here is a selection of those July 07 titles...Check them if you don't believe me.

    Plaid say...Get packing...Face to face...On the move...In and out...Eating the inedible.

    You may think......But I couldn't possibly comment.... !

    Co-incidence? I hope so Betsan.

    Anyway, Blwyddyn Newydd Dda, Bonne Annee....and when you come down in the morning, the paracetamols are in the cabinet !

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  • 4. At 9:47pm on 31 Dec 2009, Crossroads wrote:

    Actually its "swallowing the inedible" but I thought that might not be in the best possible taste.

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  • 5. At 10:25pm on 31 Dec 2009, cynicalHighlander wrote:

    Lets look forward to 2010 as the year that these isles get a proper and adult democracy fit for the 21st century not one still living in history. All the best to yourselves from the "baltic north britain" as some who are ashamed of their roots like to call my country.

    Scotland wishes Wales all the best for the future. Slainthe

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  • 6. At 10:34pm on 31 Dec 2009, dennisjunior1 wrote:

    Betsan:

    Thanks, and, I wish you all a Very Special 2010.....


    ~Dennis Junior~

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  • 7. At 11:12pm on 31 Dec 2009, Len Gibbs wrote:

    2009 was a good year. I liked it.

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  • 8. At 04:34am on 01 Jan 2010, Drachenfire wrote:

    'Blwyddyn Newydd Dda!' to you Betsan and your family, and for everyone world wide!

    This past year has been a difficult one for a great many people around the world, and I for one hope that this next year, and next decade, is much better!

    Blessings and best wishes to everyone!

    David Llewellyn

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  • 9. At 09:44am on 01 Jan 2010, HerbertDavies wrote:

    I think you had a good 2009 Betsan fighting against the odds to get a hearing for Welsh politics and Welsh journalism in a media crowded out with anglocentric (for that read Londoncentric) perspectives. This blog plays a crucial role in providing a platform for Welsh debate and you have battled stoically to try and guide us through the key issues that truly affect the well being of the people and the future of the nation. I think all your commentators on here need to adopt one simple resolution to help you maintain the integrity of this blog - 'I faithfully promise to stick to the point and not turn every entry into an opportunity to attack/defend the Welsh language and Welsh identity'.

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  • 10. At 10:01am on 01 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    A prosperous New Year to one and all.


    Sometime soon ...

    ... the Welsh Assembly Government is going to ask for our approval for the transference of power from Westminster to Cardiff, this will cut links between Westminster and Cardiff with regard to 20 important aspects of our life.

    To agree to the transfer of power will mean that the laws of the land, as currently shared by 60 million Britons, will become separate, no longer equally part of the United Kingdom, the creation of laws will no longer be agreed with Westminster, in effect the next transfer of power will be the very first step in the creation of a new autonomous State that will share a few external concerns with other interested parties.

    I have a question to the Welsh Assembly Government, during the last decade, what lasting legacy have you created to benefit the people of Wales, what exactly has changed the lives of the people, the people that you say are so different to the people of the United Kingdom.

    What is this legacy? this is the question I intend to pursue until the referendum ....

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  • 11. At 10:45am on 01 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *10

    Stonemason, I have a question for you. How do you propose to go about getting a reply from the Welsh Assembly Government to your question?

    If you are stuck for an answer then please use this, and consider it my calennig to you - the email address for enquiries to the Welsh Assembly Government: wag-en@mailuk.custhelp.com

    Perhaps you'd be kind enough to let us know the reply.

    Blwyddyn Newydd Dda

    PS - By the way, when has the Welsh Assembly Government ever made a statement to the effect that the people of Wales are 'so different to the people of the United Kingdom'? Is this a fact, or another 'gnomic' interpretation by yourself due to the actual existence of the Welsh Assembly Government?

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  • 12. At 11:11am on 01 Jan 2010, SEDWOT wrote:

    Oh dear! Do you think Betsan reads this blog? She must have the constitution of an Ox.

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  • 13. At 11:54am on 01 Jan 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:

    # 11

    If as you seem to imply that the vast majority of people in Wales are no different in culture and language to the vast majority of people in the rest of the United Kingdom, why is it that the Assembly, Plaid Cymru and its Labour supporters are pursuing policies that are separatist in all but name?

    And a fundamental part of that pursuit for the separation of powers is that a divisive Welsh language is being pushed onto the majority of people in Wales, who are little different to the racial, cultural and ethnic mix that you are likely to see in of our major cities.

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  • 14. At 12:42pm on 01 Jan 2010, West-Wales wrote:

    Happy new year All - Betsan thanks.

    Perhaps this will be the year we in Wales agree to celebrate our differences, allow each of us to live our lives as we wish.
    The "Welsh Identity" is much richer and more complex than the simplistic view of the WLB.

    I'm not holding my breath!!!

    If freedom to choose how we live is one pillar;
    The other must be WAG, Devolution has failed to deliver, may this be the year it starts to pull its act together.

    Again - I'm not holding my breath!!!


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  • 15. At 1:19pm on 01 Jan 2010, alfsplace1986 wrote:

    It seems that even wishing people a happy new year can turn into a slanging match.

    What hope have we got in Wales for anything.

    Blwyddyn Newydd Dda i chi ar eich teulu Betsan a phob bendith yn eich dyfodol.

    I hope my bit of Cymraeg/Welsh will be passed by the moderators as Betsans was.

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  • 16. At 1:24pm on 01 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    "And a fundamental part of that pursuit for the separation of powers is that a divisive Welsh language is being pushed onto the majority of people in Wales"

    At 11.54 on Jan 1 sets the quislings' pathetic tone for the year.

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  • 17. At 2:16pm on 01 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Thank you Dewi, your little outburst of righteous racial indignation at those not of your caste or persuasion, should warn folk of the festering hurts in what Rhodri calls a Celtic country!! If you ain't a Celt? Look out!!!

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  • 18. At 3:31pm on 01 Jan 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:

    # 16
    A quisling? Well that's a new one for me. And there was I thinking this long time that you and your fellow nationalists are fifth columnists, an enemy within, usurpers of the British constitution.

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  • 19. At 3:41pm on 01 Jan 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:

    #15
    I too hope that this line in a foreign language gets past the moderation team.

    Bonne chance et meilleurs voeux a tous pour la nouvelle anee.

    Apologies to any pedants, who may read this blog, but I don't know how to include accents.

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  • 20. At 5:53pm on 01 Jan 2010, Notonationalism wrote:

    19 and 15

    I'm sure the moderators won't block this either:

    Buon capodanno e tanti auguri per un 2010 sereno e pieno di gioia a tutti.

    Viva l'internazionalismo!

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  • 21. At 5:56pm on 01 Jan 2010, legendaryavocet wrote:

    Merçi Fitzmark2, je vous souhaites beaucoup de bonheur, joie, santé pour cette nouvelle année.

    It's good to have an international flavour in these posts, isn't it?

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  • 22. At 6:55pm on 01 Jan 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:

    It is indeed, legendaryavocet, and one wonders where the hell the concept of the “brotherhood of man” vanished to when the divisive Welsh nationalists and their soul-less Llafur Party supporters got together in an unholy political alliance.

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  • 23. At 6:55pm on 01 Jan 2010, alfsplace1986 wrote:

    I am glad to see we are becoming more Plaid positive with the European perspective. They may have some more members before too long by the look of it.

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

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  • 24. At 8:02pm on 01 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Lovely to see the European multi-lingual greetings of Notonationalism, Fitzmark2 & legendaryavocet.

    Such fervour for the 'brotherhood of man' can only be interpreted as indicating a desire for closer European integration by said parties.

    I applaud the improved 'international' cooperation that would result from such a move for closer cultural, economical & social ties with our European siblings.

    Tres bien! Da iawn!!



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  • 25. At 9:49pm on 01 Jan 2010, Notonationalism wrote:


    I wholeheartedly recommend satellite television to anyone fed up with Welsh telly. It's wonderful to see programmes from all over the continent and the Middle East - art, science, music, news and films.

    Mind you, the Iranian station's a bit like S4C.....

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  • 26. At 11:30pm on 01 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    So foreign languages are allowed but Alf get's moderated for a few words in Welsh!!!! - Disgraceful.

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  • 27. At 06:42am on 02 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    Following devolution a decade ago, Wales received European Structural Funds to the tune of £1.2 billion of additional money.

    What lasting legacy from this windfall ? ... What benefit is being felt today from the recipients ?

    That was £1,200,000,000 of opportunity, how did WAG spend this money ......

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  • 28. At 08:20am on 02 Jan 2010, Igotitallwrongsorry wrote:

    25. Happy new year and you are quite right about SKY services as compared to the "right on" messages from BBC in London and particularly BBC Wales and even more so with S4C. The Sky Arts Channel is superb with regular book programme,with lovely Mariella Frost Parsnips!!.Surely the Iranian television is more exciting than S4C and definitely cost less per viewern,however cannot compare to the female interviewer who asks the most banal questions during rugby matches.I press "RED" button you see. Never mind it creates employment in west wales and helps the independence movement no end with the "Cultural Revolution" currently operating in little wales!!

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  • 29. At 08:29am on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    "27. At 06:42am on 02 Jan 2010, Stonemason wrote:


    Following devolution a decade ago, Wales received European Structural Funds to the tune of £1.2 billion of additional money.

    What lasting legacy from this windfall ? ... What benefit is being felt today from the recipients ?

    That was £1,200,000,000 of opportunity, how did WAG spend this money ......"

    There you go again Stonemason, once more getting yourself into a bit of an tizz over what the Welsh Assembly Government is up to - go on, drop them a line, it's as easy as posting on this blog.

    Here's the address again: [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

    Best wishes/Dymuniadau dda

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  • 30. At 11:05am on 02 Jan 2010, legendaryavocet wrote:

    Quite right about satellite television - it's good to see things from the wider perspective that we seem to have lost over the last ten years. You also don't have to tolerate the irritation of Derek trying to teach you Welsh when all you're interested in is knowing what the weather is going to do. Watched a two hour programme about the life of Pavarotti last night on RAI 2 - priceless!

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  • 31. At 11:26am on 02 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    SC4, £1400 per head of average viewer numbers, a bargain possibly ......

    possibly not ......



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  • 32. At 12:16pm on 02 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    I was never a fan of Mr Hain, but he is correct where he said...

    More than any other LCO, the Welsh language LCO shows that the process of scrutiny – instead of being seen, as it has been interpreted by some anti-parliamentarians in Wales, or separatists in Wales, as some kind of interfering busybody – parliament has played an extremely important role in improving what will be the law. ... source Western Mail by Tomos Livingstone Jan 2 2010

    ... Westminster probably did the region a good service, a service that would be undone if "further powers" were gained.

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  • 33. At 12:46pm on 02 Jan 2010, Notonationalism wrote:

    Maybe the extremists in the Plaid-Llafur (there are now two Labour Parties) coalition will undo themselves.

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  • 34. At 1:03pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    S4C provided an elegant solution to the old problem of Welsh language programmes replacing network programmes in the schedule thereby upsetting English speaking viewers who wanted to watch Coronation Street but found themselves staring at Gwilym Owen (an experience which upset many Welsh speakers too).

    So it's paid for itself by avoiding this problem & also providing a service in the Welsh language. Multi-Channel tv may see S4C changing - we'll wait & see. I do think it's about time responsibility of funding of S4C was transferred from Westminster to the Assembly.

    As for all you cosmopolitan satellite tv viewers - my, aren't you a cosmopolitan & cultured crew! I especially love legendaryavocet's comment:

    "it's good to see things from the wider perspective"

    Bless, followed by this:

    "You also don't have to tolerate the irritation of Derek trying to teach you Welsh.."

    Considering that Derek's teaching of Welsh usually consists of a one word or at most two word greeting, such as 'shwmae' or 'noswaith dda', it becomes very obvious that this 'wider perspective' gained from satellite tv starts from a very, very narrow base indeed.

    Prof John Davies has a great term for this attitude amongst certain people living in Wales ' - 'Naive Cosmopolitanism'. Nails it on the head I think.

    Ymlaen/Onwards

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  • 35. At 1:37pm on 02 Jan 2010, SEDWOT wrote:

    What a smug fellow you are CA Jones. Welsh Medium Education?

    I was genuinely impressed by the self confidence shown by the children from Welsh speaking homes in Welsh medium Primary schools.
    It was nice to see how they responded to being in a Welsh speaking environment when they started school.
    I don't think I ever saw a Welsh speaking child crying and clutching at his mother at the school gates.
    Several English speaking kids though. No moral fibre I guess. Why would they balk at being pushed into an environment where they didn't understand what was being said to them?
    And of course throughout the years in school it's the Welsh first language kids who are quickest to answer the teachers questions because they are naturally more intelligent. (not that they understand Welsh more quickly.)
    And it's charming to see the extra tuition in music, singing, dancing and recitation given to the Welsh speaking kids so that they can compete in the Urdd Eisteddfodau.
    Wonderful, too, to hear of the recognition they get in Assembly when the Head invites the school to applaud some minor success or other of the Urdd.

    Can't understand why English kids don't feel valued in Welsh Medium Schools.

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  • 36. At 1:44pm on 02 Jan 2010, FoDafydd wrote:

    I've been away from my computer over the holiday period, but thinking that when I return, maybe, just maybe things might have changed a bit for the better. But no, despite Betsan's clear annoyance (though clearly too subtle for some) we have same old bigotry - whether it's Welsh teachers, S4C or just the usual attacks on 'little Wales'.

    I never could understand the self-loathing, though in the case of Jack, of course, he says he isn't Welsh so it's a different (though just as unpleasant) kind of abuse from him.

    These latest attacks on S4C just prove that their hatred is towards the Welsh language - there is no logic in their comments, just downright unintelligent, unthinking, ignorant and nasty abuse. When they even start to abuse Derek Brockway - one of the nation's favourite broadcasters - you know they're desperate.

    I really don't know what future this blog has.

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  • 37. At 1:56pm on 02 Jan 2010, FoDafydd wrote:

    Re 35

    SEDWOT is now in effect accusing all hundreds of thousands of English speaking parents who have sent their children to Welsh medium schools over the past 30 years of child abuse!!

    We get the message, SEDWOT, you don't like the Welsh language, it's a nuisance, you wish it wasn't here. But that's YOUR problem.

    Why there is such problem in embracing difference - unless, of course, it's European satellite TV - is beyond me. Pupils will leave with two (or more ) languages. Is that really such a bad thing?

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  • 38. At 2:24pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *35

    What an angry person you are SEDWOT.

    Why the anger? For someone who was apparently in Aberystwyth University during the late 1960s you obviously failed to see which way the wind was blowing. Perhaps you preferred remaining blissfully ignorant of such matters in your monolingual English language cocoon.

    It appears you have been in a position to learn Welsh, either during your college days or whilst living in, I'm guessing now, north west Wales. Yet you failed to do so. Which is a pity. Just think how much help you could have been to your daughter during her time in Welsh medium education.

    Never mind, at least you can vent your spleen anonymously & impotently on this blog.

    Must be some consolation..

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  • 39. At 2:56pm on 02 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Mentioning S4C or BBC Cymru, the minimum wage for an English language actor is about £735 per week, the minimum for a Welsh language actor is about £1,150!!! Viva la difference!! Isn't it?

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  • 40. At 3:16pm on 02 Jan 2010, SEDWOT wrote:

    CA Jones

    Ah! you heard about the impotence thing. Did you have to tell everyone.

    You lot aren't much fun though. No real effort to mount an argument, just

    "Ha Ha we're the winners" then a load of name calling and abuse.

    Have to agree though, Ha Ha you ARE the winners!

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  • 41. At 3:17pm on 02 Jan 2010, Igotitallwrongsorry wrote:

    34. Your right in that the english speaking majority so "loved" the welsh language that they wanted off their television asap. It was however the "threat" of an old well off gentleman to "top" himself if he did'nt get an independant welsh language channel that probably caused the creation of S4C. Its a pity he did'nt want to throw himself at the Germans/Japanese in 1940's when millions of UK men and women did but thats another story. If the minority welsh speakers want an independant TV service then so be it,but let them pay for its services as I do with SKY to watch proper professional sport like Tennis/Golf/etc etc. One man's culture is another man's "burden",particularly when it cost UK taxpayers £100 Million in subsidy.We'd soon see how the "careful" west walians love their language when they had to pay for it directly!!

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  • 42. At 4:03pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *40

    SEDWOT - if you start the abuse don't whinge if it's returned.

    Mind you, I didn't resort to name calling, which you claim I did - typical of your sloppy & maudlin way of thinking.

    No, you're right, I didn't attempt to 'mount' an argument this time - not adviseable when the other party suffers from 'impotence' in such matters.

    Keep taking the tablets - with free prescriptions from the Welsh Assembly Government we're all winners..

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  • 43. At 4:18pm on 02 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    #41

    It was an unexpected failing of MT, buckling under pressure from the coward tomato grower, I would have ignored GE and let him step into oblivion, just as we refuse to deal with political threats today [kidnapping for example].

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  • 44. At 4:23pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *41

    Strewth - the old Gwynfor the conscientious objector story again - funnily enough, it was something he had in common with Aneurin Bevan, as well as Gandhi.

    'One man's culture is another man's "burden"' - spoken like a true Philistine.

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  • 45. At 4:27pm on 02 Jan 2010, SEDWOT wrote:

    42

    Sloppy, maudlin and impotent. No name calling from you then. And "Keep taking the tablets" will be an implication that I'm insane I take it.

    Soon you'll be up there with LDT "Disgusting" "Truly Pathetic" "A disgrace" "Libelous" and a "liar".

    I'm beginning to feel Quite unloved.

    Still falling short of the claim that I accuse thousands of parents of Child Abuse from FoDafydd.

    Is there a pattern here I wonder?

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  • 46. At 6:35pm on 02 Jan 2010, Drachenfire wrote:

    re: 34 CA Jones

    "Prof John Davies has a great term for this attitude amongst certain people living in Wales ' - 'Naive Cosmopolitanism'. "

    I think you are my new best friend! lol. I love Professor Davies History of Wales (1994 and 2007) and think it should be required reading!!! I'm going to download his book "Broadcasting and the BBC in Wales" from the Open Library to study. I recommend it to everyone interested in the subject. It is free to download onto your computer, just google search it.

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  • 47. At 6:49pm on 02 Jan 2010, legendaryavocet wrote:

    Thanks for the recommendation, Drachenfire, but no thanks. Just been over the border to see the Mappa Mundi and chained library at Hereford Cathedral - now that is worth studying.

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  • 48. At 7:04pm on 02 Jan 2010, FoDafydd wrote:

    Re 47

    What point are you making, exactly?

    And you also understood every word did you?

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  • 49. At 7:41pm on 02 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    M 46
    Well of course you like the nationalistic Prof John Davies, he writes history entirely from a Welsh nationalists perspective. He somehow based his research on Monmouthshire, Welsh or English? On bits and bobs written in the Act of Union in 1536 and 1543.
    The Acts that decided Monmouthshire's fate, was the Act that created five counties in 1535, where four counties were deemed to be Welsh, and Monmouthshire English. And then confirmed in the 1942 Act...Wales divide into twelve counties.
    Those were the actual Acts that Westminster reversed in a new Act in 1972. This was not done for any newly found legalism, but because Llafur and Plaid politicians clamoured that it was the overwhelming will of Monmouthshire people. Two sneaky things there, ordinary folk were not told it was happening until it was done. And, they also didn't know how nationalistic and language crazed Llafur/ Labour was, but we do now!!

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  • 50. At 8:36pm on 02 Jan 2010, Notonationalism wrote:

    I believe that in Plaid Cymru Brainwashing Camp it is made very clear that Welsh Nationalists are only allowed to study writings by Professor John Davies and Gwyn Alf Williams (not to knock them but one ought to try to get a well-rounded view). All others are verboten.

    And as for 'naive cosmopolitanism', it should not be assumed that since we don't see the point of learning Welsh we do not have a competent grasp of other languages either. Indeed, there is a great word for this attitude amongst certain people living in Wales - 'prejudice'. Nails it on the head I think.

    Avanti.

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  • 51. At 8:38pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: * 49

    Ye Gads - the old 'Monmouthshire is English' debacle...bring it on Jacko!!

    Is there no hoary old argument this man won't turn to in his feeble attempts to attack devolution?

    In the last Assembly election in 2007 for Monmouthshire the English Democrats put up a candidate on the basis that it was an English county and they claimed people were clamouring for it to return to England.

    The result was that the English Democrats came last, with a paltry 804 votes. Plaid Cymru beat them handsomely with 2,093 votes. The seat was won by the Conservatives.

    Even the arch devolution sceptic David Davies, Tory MP for Monmouthshire, states that Monmouth is Welsh.

    Ladies & Gentlemen - I think we can safely pronounce that Monmouthshire is a Welsh county..

    Diolch yn fawr/Thank you very much

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  • 52. At 8:48pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *47

    Good to see legendaryaocet is going for an even 'wider perspective' than that offered by the multi-channel world of satellite tv & has dropped the remote & gone a-roamin'. Next it'll be that long awaited world tour - go for it legendaryavocet, and don't be in too much of a hurry to return..

    What old legendaryavocet is saying, in true 'Naive Cosmopolitanism' stylee, is that Welsh history is not worth bothering with & the only stuff worth paying attention to is what happens over the border.

    That is no surprise to anybody who reads his ignorant postings on this board.

    Prof John Davies's 'History of Wales' received excellent reviews in The Times & The Telegraph, and is seen as the authoritative one volume history of Wales.

    But as the saying goes, there's none so blind as those who will not see..

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  • 53. At 9:02pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *43

    Another cracker from Stonemason:


    "#41

    It was an unexpected failing of MT, buckling under pressure from the coward tomato grower, I would have ignored GE and let him step into oblivion, just as we refuse to deal with political threats today [kidnapping for example]."

    What Stonemason is saying that if you are a Christian Pacifist, like Gwynfor Evans, who has taken a vow not to harm another human being yet is prepared to die for Wales then you are a coward.

    However, if you are a willing to kill other people and die for Britain then you are a hero.

    By the way, it was William Whitelaw who told 'MT' she had to honour the original Conservative promise in their 1979 Election manifesto to establish a Welsh Fourth Channel, which they had (ahem) 'welched' on following their victory.

    Like she said at the time, 'Every Prime Minister needs a Willie.'

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  • 54. At 9:13pm on 02 Jan 2010, legendaryavocet wrote:

    Oh dear, I do seem to have upset you CA. Actually, Welsh history was part of my Gwent Grammar School syllabus, so I do know a bit about it. Today, whilst in Hereford, I read that in 1055, Gruffydd ap Llywelyn allied himself with Ælfgār, son of the Earl of Mercia. They marched on Hereford, sacked the city and destroyed its Norman castle. (Perhaps an attempt at colonisation). Later, Gruffydd also seized Gwent. He got his just deserts in 1063 when he was killed by his own men, and his head was sent to King Harold.
    Thank you for advising me to go aroaming and not to hurry back. I'm quite used to receiving such advice from nats who think everyone must conform to their own narrow view of 'Welshness'.

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  • 55. At 9:29pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *54

    You haven't upset me legendaryavocet - I find your postings most amusing. A Norman castle in England before the Conquest of 1066? I congratulate you on your historical scoop - obviously you should get out more often.

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  • 56. At 10:24pm on 02 Jan 2010, legendaryavocet wrote:

    Sorry to disappoint you, CA.
    Edward the Confessor (1042-66) spent many years in Normandy, and, on his return to Britain surrounded himself with Normans. As a result, there were Normans in Britain before the Conquest in 1066, one of whom (Richard Fitz-Scrob) erected a castle in Hereford during Edward’s reign.
    I recommend that you visit Hereford Cathedral - the guides are most informative.

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  • 57. At 10:42pm on 02 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Message 51
    As usual, supercilious comments, braying out the rights of the Rhodri Morgan type Cymraeg supremacists, how dare English folk trapped in Monmouthshire question the rights of the Cymraeg to be a Druidic ruling caste.
    The English Democrats!!! Are the completely barking mad equivalent of Plaid in England, complete idiots!!!
    Yes, the Conservatives won in Monmouthshire, and I voted for them, I like and respect David Davies, but there are many Conservatives who disagree on the Monmouthshire issue. But anyway, David Davies is a proud British Welshman, who totally disagrees with King Rhodri's Cymraeg enforcement, and the sectarian cesspit of devolution.

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  • 58. At 10:48pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *56

    You never disappoint me legendaryavocet - historians would describe 'Richard's castle' as an English/Saxon castle designed by a Norman knight held according to the customs of feudalism in the name of the King of England.

    To describe it boldly as a 'Norman castle' gives the wrong impression. To Gruffydd ap Llywelyn, he was attacking an English, or Saxon castle - he had no quarrel with the Normans.

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  • 59. At 11:07pm on 02 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *57

    Jack - David Davies so disagrees with 'King Rhodri's Cymraeg enforcement' to the extent that he's learnt to speak Welsh quite fluently.

    'supercilious'? - yes, I'm proud to assert my disdain for those poor misguided souls who continue to believe Monmouth is an English county in the face of all the evidence to the contrary:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouthshire_%28historic%29

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  • 60. At 11:33pm on 02 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Message
    Sigh..The braying idiot gets more and more surreal!!! Yes, David Davies did learn Welsh, he was greatly assisted by his mate Rod Richards, so what point are you so heroically stuggling trying to make?

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  • 61. At 00:39am on 03 Jan 2010, legendaryavocet wrote:

    CA. It is fashionable in today's Wales to put forward a Welsh nationalist interpretation of history. So, you think that Gruffydd had no quarrel with the Normans.....

    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruffydd_ap_Llywelyn
    'Gruffydd ap Llywelyn was active on the Welsh border in 1052, when he attacked Herefordshire and defeated a mixed force of Normans and English near Leominster'.

    My wish for this New Year is that all those currently imposing their own ideas of 'identity' on the rest of us would just leave us in peace. That includes nationalists in government, in the media and activists.

    They would do well to heed the following quote:
    Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.”
    C.S. Lewis



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  • 62. At 00:50am on 03 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    Whaty a wonderful start to the year. You quislings are a pretty pathetic lot. You hate your own country so much that culture starts at Hereford..and Stony's "coward tomato grower" - why is tomato grower a term of abuse? -It's odd that your usual Scottish Unionist loves his/her country whilst ours seem to wish for its disappearance.

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  • 63. At 01:19am on 03 Jan 2010, Notonationalism wrote:

    We just want it to be the lovely, comfortable, free Wales that it once was - a place where it didn't really matter what language you spoke or how you viewed your own ethnic and cultural identity.

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  • 64. At 08:37am on 03 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *60

    Jack - can we please attempt a modicum of civilised behaviour on this blog & refrain from personal attacks.

    I wasn't attempting so much as to make a point, merely a gentle tweak due to your continual rabid attacks on the Welsh language & culture, particularly with regards to Monmouthshire.

    Stop taking yourself so seriously - you'll live longer.


    Re: *61

    legendaryavocet - you're certainly determined to get your money's worth from that guide in Hereford.

    At the risk of coming on all 'Groundhog Day', Gruffydd attacked a 'mixed force of Normans and English' who were acting under the authority of one of the last kings of Anglo-Saxon England. I picked up on the 'Norman' castle you mentioned because it gave the anachronistic impression that the Normans were the sovereign power in England at that time, long before 1066. Whatever..

    One more thing - no ideas are 'imposed' on this blog. Points regarding culture & nationality are robustly made by both sides - such is the nature of free debate.

    Wishing for opposing views to silence their voices so as to be 'left in peace' is the dream of tyrants.


    Re: *63

    Notonationalism - There's lovely, I want a free Wales as well :)

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  • 65. At 08:57am on 03 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:

    ... CA Jones attempts to put foreign meaning to my words when he writes ...

    ...What Stonemason is saying that if you are a Christian Pacifist, like Gwynfor Evans, who has taken a vow not to harm another human being yet is prepared to die for Wales then you are a coward. However, if you are a willing to kill other people and die for Britain then you are a hero.

    ... unfortunately GE made his own statement by remaining at home growing tomatoes whilst millions of Christians fought fascism so that he could sleep easy in his bed, so he could receive the benefit of others efforts.

    The man was a coward and parasite, not even prepared to work with the opponents of fascism when they needed help to recover from horrific injuries defending his way of life.

    Every man and woman that helped the war effort or directly fought fascism during WWII were hero's, the rest were ..... otherwise.

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  • 66. At 09:09am on 03 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *50

    Notonationalism - just spotted this.

    You don't quite get 'Naive Cosmoplitanism' in this context. It doesn't assume a lack of other languages. It's a comment on those Welsh people who airily dismiss any knowledge of Welsh language & culture as parochial & anti-cosmopolitanist. Those that do so also invariably have little or no knowledge of the Welsh language & culture in the first place.

    By the way Notonat..ism - care to mention the authors & titles of those 'verboten' books that have given you such a 'well rounded view' of Welsh history?

    Ciao/Hwyl


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  • 67. At 09:51am on 03 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *65

    Wouldn't growing tomatoes have contributed to the war effort, even if cultivated by a Welsh Nationalist?

    I'm surprised Stonemason, you being an old soldier, you don't quite get it, do you?

    The sacrifices in that war were made to ensure free societies existed where people like Gwynfor Evans could make their individual decisions & live freely without persecution.

    Your use of terms such as 'coward & parasite' betray those sacrifices.

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  • 68. At 11:54am on 03 Jan 2010, Bryn_Teilo wrote:

    63 wrote:

    "We just want it to be the lovely, comfortable, free Wales that it once was - a place where it didn't really matter what language you spoke or how you viewed your own ethnic and cultural identity."

    And just when, exactly, might that have been?

    If your native language was Welsh, and/or if you knew a smidgeon about Wales' past, you wouldn't make such stupidly naive comments.

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  • 69. At 12:16pm on 03 Jan 2010, legendaryavocet wrote:

    Re 64: It is always a good idea to approach the reading of history from several angles. For example, the French version of the Battle of Hastings is completely different to the English one. This is why I find the trenchant Welsh Nationalist single view of history so unappealing.

    I will clarify my wishes for this New Year, as you seem to think I have attacked bloggers on this site. The vast majority of people in Wales are more concerned about health care, employment, education and how the recession is affecting their pension than their 'identity'. However, politicians, Welsh media and nationalist activists have Welsh identity as their priority, and they prattle on ad nauseam to persuade the rest of the population that they should want it, too.

    It really doesn't matter how many publicly-funded conventions, polls commissioned from Aberystwyth University, propaganda buses or development officers are employed to 'persuade' us to convert to their separatist ideology. The old saying, 'You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink', is as true now as ever it was.

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  • 70. At 12:28pm on 03 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *69

    I'm reminded of Dorothy Parker's definition of 'Horticulture':

    'You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think.'

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  • 71. At 12:33pm on 03 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *70

    Actually it wasn't Dorothy Parker's definition of 'Horticulture', but her response to being challenged to use 'Horticulture' in a sentence, which was:

    'You can lead a horticulture (whore to culture), but you can't make her think'

    I thank you for your kind indulgence

    Tan tro nesa'/'Til next time

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  • 72. At 1:35pm on 03 Jan 2010, FoDafydd wrote:

    Re 65

    I'm afraid this place is going from very bady to worse.

    And now Stonemason's hatred of Gwynfor Evans dispels any claim he makes for being a supporter of democracy:

    "Every man and woman that helped the war effort or directly fought fascism during WWII were hero's (sic), the rest were ..... otherwise."

    So no one in a democracy has either the moral or democratic right to be a pacifist in Stonemason's opinion. He says, also, that all pacifists are cowards. Does that include, I wonder, Siegfried Sassoon, a decorated war hero who changed his mind completely after seeing what war actually means.

    I have said before that I wish I could claim that I am a pacifist, but I cannot quite. I'm not brave enough, probably, to take that stance.

    Stonemason could have provided a case for not being a pacifist if he wished, and by definition - in the case of WWII - a case for the further slaughter of men, women and children, but I'm afraid he took the coward's way out and simply attacked Gwynfor, a good man not now with us to defend himself.

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  • 73. At 1:54pm on 03 Jan 2010, Crossroads wrote:

    Jeez CA, are you always "reminded" of Dorothy Parker's response, when you hear the old "lead a horse to water" saying? Or is it just another opportunity for you to impress us lesser mortals.

    Still, you must be congratulated on composing the year's most contrived link to another post on here.

    And it's only January!

    I was also inclined to mention your comment about 'whore to culture but you can't make her think' "I thank you for your indulgence....Till next time"

    Sadly I believe this to be another attempt to impress us non-crachach types, and that you have been associating with particularly polite (and grateful)'such ladies'for some time now....(wink emoticon)

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  • 74. At 2:22pm on 03 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    In today's Sunday Times ...

    In Norway 28% of the labour market are employed in the public sector.

    In the UK it is a little less at 21.1%

    In Germany is is a low 11%

    In Japan it is an incredible 5%


    Whilst here surrounded by the green grass of home 75% of the working population wouldn't have a job without the public purse ... it's time WAG awoke from its decade long slumber and at the very least educate our young people so that they will be able to compete in the real world.


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  • 75. At 2:26pm on 03 Jan 2010, legendaryavocet wrote:

    Re 70-71:

    What exactly were you trying to say, CA?

    On second thoughts - I don't really want to know.....

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  • 76. At 10:12pm on 03 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    75% Stoney??? Why do you quislings keep on making things up?

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  • 77. At 11:59pm on 03 Jan 2010, Lyn David Thomas wrote:

    The 75% is a very very dodgy statistic, and note it is not the same as the rest, public sector employment as opposed to 75% would would not be employed if it was not the public purse... interesting made up statistic.

    It looks like we are starting the year the same way as last year. I don't think quisling is a helpful term for unionists, nether do I think that attacking Gwynfor for cowardice is (he patently was not a coward, being a Conscientious Objector was a very very difficult thing to be.). Perhaps we can ignore the clear loonies and those whose only purpose here is to start a flame war and discuss the issues? There was some attempts made in this direction last year.

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  • 78. At 02:05am on 04 Jan 2010, MH at Syniadau wrote:

    If there's one thing our favourite poster loves doing, it's telling lies. Big ones are his speciality. When he [#74] said 75% were employed in the public sector ... he had only increased the figure for Wales by a factor of three.

    So as he obviously wants to start the New Year by making the rest of us laugh at him, I suppose the rest of us should be happy to oblige.

    In 2008, public sector employment in Wales was 23.9%, compared with 19.8% for the UK as a whole. Remember the Golden Delicious Rule.

    -

    Obviously things won't have improved in the last year. The UK figure has increased from 19.8% to over 21%, so the figure for Wales is bound to have gone up as well.

    But, apart from the troubles of the UK as a whole, the long term trend for Wales has been positive. Private sector employment in Wales increased by 12% between 1999 and 2008, compared to an 8% increase across the UK as a whole. So things have been going in the right direction for the last ten years.

    Source

    MH @ Syniadau

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  • 79. At 07:40am on 04 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    Unable to read or unwilling to accept the fact that such a huge proportion of people in work in Wales rely on the public purse directly and indirectly ...

    ... not as our occasional sunderer contributor MH would have the sane believe.

    The public purse includes ...

    ... government naturally, government departments [DVLA and HMRC as examples], quangos and the beneficiaries of grants etc, local authorities including beneficiaries of grants and subsidies, NHS etc, travel subsidies, the list goes on and on. The public purse in Wales is the many billions of Pounds of Assembly grant, every single penny of this money is the public purse, plus the many other billions spent by the Westminster government in Wales.

    MH would write what he has, he would have you believe the 5% have answers to our regional issues, juvenile nonsense of course, the ramblings of a separatist.

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  • 80. At 07:55am on 04 Jan 2010, penddu wrote:

    49 Your continual misreading of Monmouthshires history is staggering!!

    FACT 1:
    Monmouthshire was created in 1282 by the Statute of Rhuddlan as one of the original Welsh Marcher Counties (same as Glamorgan).
    INDISPUTABLE.

    FACT 2:
    The 1535 'Act of Union' then divided the 'Country of Wales' into 13 counties, of which Monmouthshire as one.
    INDISPUTABLE.

    FACT 3:
    The 1542 Laws in Wales Act placed Monmouthshire in an English legal circuit.

    OPINION 1 - Generally Accepted:
    The 1542 Act divided Welsh Counties into groups of 3 for judicial purposes. One county had to be placed with two adjoining English Counties - It could have been Montgomeryshire.

    Opinion 2 - Widely Discreditted:
    The 1542 Act moved Monmouthshire into England. This opinion has caused confusion over the years, and which was used by the Establishment in a classic divide and conquer tactic. It was finally resolved in 1972 and the overwhelming majority of the population of Monmouthshire happily agreed with and accepted this deceision. The only people disagreeing at the time were some English Conservatives.

    While there are many people today in Monmouthshire/Gwent who do not believe in Welsh independence, I have never met anyone (NOT ONE!!!) who seriously believes that Monmouthshire is part of England.


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  • 81. At 08:14am on 04 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    Come on Stoney - where's the 75% from?

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  • 82. At 08:51am on 04 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    "I don't think quisling is a helpful term for unionists"

    I'm not trying to br helpful Lyn - a bit of their own abusive medicine works wonders (for me anyway!!!)

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  • 83. At 09:13am on 04 Jan 2010, Igotitallwrongsorry wrote:

    The figures given by Stonemason need some clarification,however he is absolutely on right track as wales does rely on public sector jobs (i.e.funded either wholly or mainly)from general taxation,as compared to south east england. We are not alone in this in UK as many regions that are economically removed from "market place" also receive subsidies from general tax pool to fund employment,however we'd all move to south east/east midlands. It would be quite easy to find these figures as "head" counts in main public services would be easy for those organizations,and then the more complicated "voluntary","not for profit" organizations that rely for more than 90% of income from direct subsidies from public purse in its entirety. If you added all those organizations I would estimate that the real figure is approximately 60%,and then take into account the "private sector" companies that rely on money spent from the purchasing power of these those "public sector" companies/employees then that probably gets up to the 75% figure. Where does BBC Wales/S4C come into these categories,and I would personally put them fully into public sector group,even though employees paid by seperate organizations from state. The TV Licence is a form of statutory tax.The sheer range of services funded by state has allowed WAG in last ten years to seem to be Father Christmas for 12 months of year,and it has used this power to fund its "favourites",rather than the realistic funding needed to actually improve services. The reverse is going to take place in next 10 years as if highly respected pundits/economists are correct the public sector is going to shrink back to 1997 level quite quickly,otherwise world markets will not hold sterling and fund the astronomic debt levels approved by New labour over last ten years. Come back Mrs. Thatcher and sort this blood mess out,and get LA's to provide services in local and accountable manner,rather than centralised nightmare that we now have. You can be sure of one thing that public sector pensions will come to an end innext 10 years as people in private sector (like my children)aint going to pay taxes and receive pittances from private sector whilst public sector get inflation proofed pensions (as I do) etc etc. Its called economic realism!!

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  • 84. At 09:40am on 04 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    So Dewi makes an admission of abuse ......... at #82

    Moderators might like to impose sanctions.

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  • 85. At 10:16am on 04 Jan 2010, penddu wrote:

    84 - I dont think the use of the term Quisling is particularly abusive - negative yes - but no more abusive than some of the terms thrown around by the unionists

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  • 86. At 10:37am on 04 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    A prosperous new year to you penddu ...

    ... my comment referred to Dewi's admission of abuse at #82 not the word, although to use that particular word when referring to British people is spiteful and of course, a lie.

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  • 87. At 11:05am on 04 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    Sunderers a compliment eh Stony ? And come on 75%?????

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  • 88. At 11:07am on 04 Jan 2010, Lyn David Thomas wrote:

    So stonemason if anyone here gets a post removed by the moderators, does your offer to host it still apply?

    I have yet to see how you come up with the 75% figure or explain how you justify it in relation to the other figures that seem to be calculated on a different basis yet you persist on comparing the Welsh figure unfavourably to a totally unrelated statistic. Please explain or withdraw the 75% statistic.

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  • 89. At 11:26am on 04 Jan 2010, Neocromwellian wrote:


    #74 "it's time WAG awoke from its decade long slumber and at the very least educate our young people so that they will be able to compete in the real world."

    To do that they need to catch up with other young people in the UK in their ability to speak continental languages so they can compete in the euro jobs market.

    Its nice to see some on this blog setting an example, all we need now is for the WAG to do the same.

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  • 90. At 11:28am on 04 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    I think Igotitallwrongsorry at #83 summed up the 75% very well.

    Dewi, if you have another word that describes people who would break up a union I could use it.

    LDT, it would need to be in English, but otherwise of course, it is called Freedom of Expression, the same rules that apply to comments, no bad language, no libel etc.


    The intention is to highlight the effort needed to change Wales into a net contributor rather than consumer, I am confident it can happen, I see "education" as the prime mover in this particular game.

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  • 91. At 1:22pm on 04 Jan 2010, MH at Syniadau wrote:

    It's always amusing to see how our favourite poster ties to justify himself after he's been caught telling lies. On this occasion, his lie was to compare an accurate figure for the UK as a whole with a different, unjustified, figure for Wales. The Golden Delicious Rule is to always compare apples with apples.

    But of course, even if he could justify his 75% (and haven't we just been told that it would be "quite easy to find these figures"?) then a similarly high figure would apply to other parts of the UK every bit as much as to Wales. Once again he's "gotitallwrong".

    -

    As anyone who followed through the link I gave can see for themselves, in the past nine years (1999-2008) public sector employment in Wales fell from 24.2% to 23.9%. In England, the trend is going in exactly the opposite direction: it was 18.2% but rose to 18.9% over the same period.

    He talked about a "decade long slumber" but these figures show that he's the one that's been dead to the real world for the past ten years. Wales is clearly doing something to buck the trend (although I'm sure we'd do even better with a different Welsh Government) and we must, as always, thank him for drawing it to wider attention ... even if it wasn't in the way he intended.

    MH @ Syniadau

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  • 92. At 1:23pm on 04 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    "I would estimate that the real figure is approximately 60%,and then take into account the "private sector" companies that rely on money spent from the purchasing power of these those "public sector" companies/employees then that probably gets up to the 75% figure."

    There is no science there at all.

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  • 93. At 1:40pm on 04 Jan 2010, alfsplace1986 wrote:

    23
    This was my posting at 23. part of it has now been allowed. I put their URL up on the blog for which I appologise.

    The rest can be seen in Plaids Europe manifesto.

    23. At 6:55pm on 01 Jan 2010, you wrote:
    I am glad to see we are becoming more Plaid positive with the European perspective. They may have some more members before too long by the look of it.

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

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  • 94. At 1:48pm on 04 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    "Dewi, if you have another word that describes people who would break up a union I could use it."

    "Nationalist" will do fine.

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  • 95. At 2:14pm on 04 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Aye, 'Nationalist' will do for me too

    CA Jones

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  • 96. At 2:30pm on 04 Jan 2010, John Henry wrote:


    MH uses "public sector employment", this is ...

    ... quite different from employment supported by "the public purse directly and indirectly", MH attempts to alter the scope, a common trait found with certain regimes ...

    ... he is attempting to use stats in a supportive way, much as the proverbial with the lamp-post.


    Let me give you an example of the public purse, RCT Homes split from the local authority, this reduced the number of public sector employees by hundreds, yet the housing association receives the same public purse support and employs or contracts the same number of people, this is an example of how MH is able to suggest that the public sector in Wales is contracting ...,

    nice try, but your logic is flawed MH.


    There are many Nationalist parties Dewi, not all would sunder their country, so Nationalist is not good enough I'm afraid.

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  • 97. At 3:14pm on 04 Jan 2010, Dewi_H wrote:

    So come on Stoney how did you work out your 75% precisely???

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  • 98. At 3:16pm on 04 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: 96

    To avoid any confusion call me a 'Welsh Nationalist'.

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  • 99. At 4:11pm on 04 Jan 2010, penddu wrote:

    96 Stoney, the construction contractors who build motorways and hospitals are funded by the public purse - as are defence contractors, the manufacturers of swine-flu vaccine, management consultants in the NHS etc.

    Yet you do not include these private sector positions in your English statistics, in the way that you have extrapolated for Wales.

    I actually agree with you that there is too heavy a reliance on public sector jos in Wales, but you lose all credibility by inventing statistics and then using them to compare Welsh Apples with English Pears.

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  • 100. At 5:06pm on 04 Jan 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:

    # 80,
    In totality that post is a graphic reason why you should take everything a nationalist says or writes with a large pinch of salt.

    They quote law only when it suits their separatist and undemocratic purposes, ignoring or disregarding the undemocratic inception of their Assembly and they constantly draw parallels with the democratic Scots in their push for more powers. For spin they put the spin doctors' spin doctor, Alistair Campbell, in the shade.

    Penndu, the motto of the county was and still is I believe, Utrique Fidelis (Faithful to Both). If the county was emphatically Welsh as you maintain the motto seems rather strange, don't you think?

    It's strange also that the old Welsh Office believed Monmouthshire was a legally constituted county of England prior to 1972:
    "The Local Government Act 1972 abolished the administrative county of Monmouthshire and the county borough of Newport, which until then were legally part of England…"

    If the county was always Welsh why was an Act of Parliament required to transfer the county to Wales?

    And why is it, do you think, that the Ordnance Survey in a letter to me pointed out that the organisation "...only changes boundaries on its maps as a result of an Act of Parliament…" And that, "prior to the Local Government Act of 1972, Monmouthshire was shown in England."

    Were they telling lies, do you think?

    I could give you a wealth of other relevant information regarding the county, none of which would make a blind bit of difference to a spin doctor’s point of view.

    As I've told you before I no longer care what name you attach to the county. But I'll leave you with this: I was born in Newport Monmouthshire England and that fact is indisputable.

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  • 101. At 6:20pm on 04 Jan 2010, Bryn_Teilo wrote:

    #100

    "I was born in Newport Monmouthshire England and that fact is indisputable."

    Equally indisputable, is the fact that you now live in Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales.

    We're back to this boring old question.

    In 1938 Hitler and the Nazis decided that Austria was part of the German Reich, and annexed it. It is no longer part of the German Reich, indeed, there is no German Reich.

    Wales was annexed to England, but no longer. The English/British Empire no longer exists either.

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  • 102. At 6:24pm on 04 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *100

    And I'll leave you with this Fitzmark2: my two sons were born this century in the Royal Gwent Hospital/Ysbyty Frenhinol Gwent, Newport/Casnewydd, Monmouthshire/Sir Fynwy, Wales/Cymru

    Now go & fret about something slightly more important, like the price of bananas.

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  • 103. At 6:24pm on 04 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Monmouthshire, was deemed to be English with the 1535 Act that created five counties, no guess work no doubt, from the Act.

    Two Knights for the Shire of Monmouth, and one Burgess for the Town. XXVIII. And it is furthermore enacted by the Authority aforesaid, That for this present Parliament, and all other Parliaments to be holden and kept for this Realm, two Knights shall be chosen and elected to the same Parliament for the Shire of Monmouth, and one Burgess for the Borough of Monmouth, in like Manner, Form and Order, as Knights and Burgesses of the Parliament be elected and chosen in all other Shires of this Realm of England,
    (2) and that the same Knights and Burgesses shall have like Dignity, Preeminence and Privilege,
    (3) and shall be allowed such Fees, as other Knights and Burgesses of the Parliament have been allowed;
    (4) and the Knights Fees to be levied, perceived, receieved, gathered and paid in such Manner, Form and Order, as such Feed be levied, perceived, receieved, gathered, and paid in other Shires of this Realm of England;

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  • 104. At 6:26pm on 04 Jan 2010, Igotitallwrongsorry wrote:

    92. Who said there was any "science" in my estimates??.96. Stonemason. You are correct in that stock transfers from LA to HA means that staff take with them all the benefits of previous LA employment,however funding comings from exactly the same source i.e. Taxpayer. A further example is the careers advice which used to be given by teachers and local government officers is now provided by 6 Companies all with Chief Executives etc etc which cover the whole of wales,however total funding is provided by WAG. 99. The private sector is involved of course in the provision of services to various government bodies and those costs are borne by general taxation,however what cannot be ignored is the additional benefits of general taxation that we receive in wales as compared to the south east of england. The much derided City of London has been in effect subsidising wales for years and much thanks it has got from the NATS and fellow travellers on this blog.We here much criticism of the UK from the NATS,however not one has been able say how wales could feed/clothe/house/employ its people without the support of english taxpayers??. If you accept a structural financial deficit now and in future who would fund this gap and where would the income come from to repay interest/capital.In conclusion if you look strictly at the economic case then wales could not produce the needed level of services at lowest cost because it makes no sense as an economic entity. A friends son-in law is Doctor from abroad and he is amazed that NHS is structured on wales basis,rather than tieing it in with our neighbours over the "border" as BBC CYMRU refers to it.Its POLITICS and it stinks!!

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  • 105. At 6:35pm on 04 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Next section down on the 1535 Act.

    Knights and Burgesses for the Parliament in Wales, and their Fees. XXIX. And that for this present Parliament, and all other Parliaments to be holden and kept for this Realm, one Knight shall be chosen and elected to the same Parliaments for every of the Shires of Brecknock, Radnor, Mountgomery and Denbigh, and for every other Shire within the said Country of Dominion of Wales;
    (2) and for every Borough being a Shire-town within the said Country of Dominion of Wales, except the Shire-town of the foresaid County of Merioneth, one Burgess;
    (3) and the Election to be in like Manner, Form and Order, as Knights and Burgesses of the Parliament be elected and chosen in other Shires of this Realm;

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  • 106. At 7:08pm on 04 Jan 2010, Lyn David Thomas wrote:

    Yet when there was any all Wales legislation it usually (though not always) included Monmouthshire. You may feel that you were English but I know very few people who would have said they were English not Welsh who came from Gwent.

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  • 107. At 7:25pm on 04 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A13911662

    During the Renaissance, Monmouthshire was geographically English but sentimentally Welsh: a direct contrast to the situation today. Acts of Parliament for many centuries referred to 'Monmouthshire and South Wales'1 as one, and as late as the 1960s various parts of the county claimed to be Welsh, where others were steadfastly English. The erstwhile county town of Newport could technically have been considered English right up until 2002, when it was granted city status and became Wales' third city. Newport, confusingly, is now part of the county of Gwent.


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  • 108. At 7:30pm on 04 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/7354446.stm

    It is, perhaps, a bit of a cliche to describe this rural county as more English than Welsh.

    MONMOUTHSHIRE COUNCIL
    Conservatives: 24
    Labour: 9
    Liberal Democrats: 3
    Plaid Cymru: 2
    Independents: 3
    Others: 2

    Nevertheless, according to the Labour Force Survey, only just over half of Monmouthshire's population consider themselves Welsh.

    The latest census information also shows the area has the lowest number of Welsh speakers.


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  • 109. At 8:06pm on 04 Jan 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:

    "Equally indisputable, is the fact that you now live in Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales."


    Now then Bryn, my old sophist you've got it wrong once again. That might be true for those who live permanently in dear old Newport but it's not true about me.
    The political coup (you Welsh are really good at that sort of thing)in 1972 has been totally successful, I don't deny it.

    And your analogy with the Nazis is typical of you nationalists. Now isn't Nazi an abbreviation of national socialism, or something like that?

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  • 110. At 8:16pm on 04 Jan 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:

    #102

    You opening statement is a blindingly obvious statement to anyone with the intellect to read, to see and to hear. It's not surprising what a little bit of social engineering can do.

    The only thing I worry about is how much longer are people in Wales going to pay extra taxes in support of an unnecessary extra tier of government. Talk about ragged trousered philanthropies...

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  • 111. At 9:10pm on 04 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *110

    Fitzmark2 wrote:
    "The only thing I worry about is how much longer are people in Wales going to pay extra taxes in support of an unnecessary extra tier of government."

    Stop your fretting - you'll do yourself a mischief.

    There was a chap who frequented various BBC boards an eon ago, named Fitzwilliam - are you by chance related?

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  • 112. At 9:15pm on 04 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    From the BBC in 107

    During the Renaissance, Monmouthshire was geographically English but sentimentally Welsh:

    From that BBC sentence, read, whilst Monmouthshire folk with more English surnames than Welsh, were going about their English speaking British lives. The Church in Wales, Plaid and Llafur politicians ( the Welsh establishment ) were clamouring to Westminster that the only thing Monmouthshire folk cared about was becoming part of the Celtic country of Wales? Well, thanks a bunch, Plaid Llafur Cymru, with special thanks to the Irish-Welsh Celts of Llafur in once English Newport!!!!!

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  • 113. At 9:26pm on 04 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    There was a chap who frequented various BBC boards an eon ago, named Fitzwilliam - are you by chance related?

    Sheesh!! so well spotted!! Ain't you just smartest lill' thung on this MB? A tad supercilious maybe? But he is the brightest little chap in his ysgol.

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  • 114. At 10:10pm on 04 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *113

    Ta Jack, nice to be able to give you a break from your Monmouthshire Mania.

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  • 115. At 10:21pm on 04 Jan 2010, Bryn_Teilo wrote:

    #109

    Ah, yes I'd forgotton that you had upped sticks and moved north, Geordie somewhere, was it?

    Anyways, its a totally washed-out topic. If the people of Monmouthshire/Gwent want to be in England, in a democratic vote, I'd support them all the way. They don't. If you do, then why not move back to Newport and campaign for it, instead of mounting a soap-box somewhere near Newcastle?

    Equally, & similarly, if the people of Wales want primary law making powers for their Assembly, or a sovereign Senedd/Parliament someday, then that's their right. Its democracy.

    We're Welsh, and we're still here, like it or not.

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  • 116. At 11:22pm on 04 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 117. At 07:46am on 05 Jan 2010, penddu wrote:

    108 Interesting - So you now only consider 'mini-monmouthshire' (the current county based around the Vale of Usk) to be English, and not the original Monmouthshire (which also includes Newport and the Gwent Valleys)

    FWIW, and I dont know what this proves, the county councillors across all of original Monmouthshire are:

    Con 50
    Lab 95
    LD 18
    PC 35
    IN 51


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  • 118. At 11:01am on 05 Jan 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:

    # 115
    As for the Monmouthshire controversy, I accept, you've won, in an underhand way of course, but you've won.

    Now Bryn I tend to agree with much of what you say in that post. The only problem as I see it is that your idea of democracy is fundamentaly flawed. An 0.6% winning margin on a very low turn-out which brought in a major change to a constitution is not the way democrats should behave.

    "We're Welsh, and we're still here, like it or not."

    That statement used time and time again by Welsh nationalists always makes me laugh. There's a whole thesis to be written on that expression, "We're Welsh", and that's without pointing out to you that by the same definition "We're all bluddy well here."

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  • 119. At 11:15am on 05 Jan 2010, Fitzmark2 wrote:

    #102
    "There was a chap who frequented various BBC boards an eon ago, named Fitzwilliam - are you by chance related?"

    Yes I am closely related sir. And your point being...?

    #111
    "...my two sons were born this century in the Royal Gwent Hospital/Ysbyty Frenhinol Gwent, Newport/Casnewydd, Monmouthshire/Sir Fynwy, Wales/Cymru"

    Good god man, the taxi driver that took your wife to the hospital must have been totally confused by that mouth-full.

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  • 120. At 12:42pm on 05 Jan 2010, Bryn_Teilo wrote:

    #118

    I haven't won anything. The decision in the 70s simply regularised what existed in actual fact - on the ground - as it were. It clarified it, so that there could be no doubt in anyone's mind. It wasn't challenged in any serious way. The development of administrative devolution to Wales made it inevitable.

    That brings me back to, 'We're Welsh AND we're still here'. Devolution is a recognition of that fact.

    I challenge you to visit any secondary school in Wales, and ask the pupils in a Year 7 class (those born in Wales - not those who have moved here from elsewhere) if they consider themselves to be Welsh, or not. I suspect that you would get the same reaction in Monmouthshire as anywhere else.

    Happy New Year/Blwyddyn Newydd Dda to all.

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  • 121. At 1:56pm on 05 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *19
    No, he spoke Welsh - he learnt it because his kids went to a Welsh medium primary school in Newport.

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  • 122. At 7:11pm on 05 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Re 117
    My post 108, was not done to highlight how solidly Conservative Monmouthshire is, if you read my link it was difficult to copy and not include the pre-2008 council make up. My post was addressing posters who deny that large numbers of Monmouthshire folk consider themselves to be English, and we all resent the Rhodri Morgan type elite!!
    PS the post 2008 council set up looks even better for Conservative Brits, Plaid lost a half of their number, and Llafur lost 2 more druids.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/local_council/08/html/pp.stm

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  • 123. At 7:35pm on 05 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Re 120.
    I challenge you to visit any secondary school in Wales, and ask the pupils in a Year 7 class (those born in Wales - not those who have moved here from elsewhere) if they consider themselves to be Welsh, or not. I suspect that you would get the same reaction in Monmouthshire as anywhere else.

    That is seriously scary stuff, it implies indoctrination of impressionable vulnerable children by Llafur and Plaid teachers!!
    Can't Labour in the rest of the UK see how dangerous and sectarian Llafur is?

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  • 124. At 8:05pm on 05 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *123

    Calm down Jack - it only implies that pupils in Monmouthshire schools nowadays are getting a proper education, and in years to come they won't be wasting their time about silly things like whether their county is Welsh or not - best days of their lives..

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  • 125. At 8:39pm on 05 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/04/21/10-years-of-devolution-folly-91466-23430039/

    Youse one funny guy Jonesy, the chance of pupils getting a good education in Wales is rapidly getting worse!! A recent Times article had illiteracy rates in Wales at a whopping 25%!! As compared to 16% in England and Scotland at 18%.
    Read what the architect of devolution, Kevin Morgan, has to say about education and much more, no supposed to be witty comebacks will work here Jonesy.

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  • 126. At 10:22pm on 05 Jan 2010, CA Jones wrote:

    Re: *125

    The problem is Jack that you & your ilk are so cross-eyed anti-devolution you fail to put your finger on the problem. If policies are wrong in a devolved matter, then the problem is not with devolution, but with the policies of the governing party/ies of the Assembly.

    The answer then, according to classic liberal democratic custom, is at an election to vote for a party that has, in the voter's opinion, a policy to remedy the problem.

    Instead of continually blaming devolution Jack, you should be doing something a little more positive & suggest a party that if given the mandate in the Senedd could right matters. Have the Welsh Conservatives or Welsh Liberals got a policy on education that in your opinion could improve matters?

    Would you know if they did have such policies?

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  • 127. At 10:36pm on 05 Jan 2010, FoDafydd wrote:

    Re 123

    Is Jack officially the most paranoid man in Wales (including Monmouthshire, of course) and Newcastle?

    For God's sake, can you move on?

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  • 128. At 10:44pm on 05 Jan 2010, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Re 124.
    Calm down Jack - it only implies that pupils in Monmouthshire schools nowadays are getting a proper education, and in years to come they won't be wasting their time about silly things like whether their county is Welsh or not - best days of their lives..

    The reason the Monmouthshire issue was raised again, was because Drachenfire in M 46, was extolling the brilliance of the Welsh nationalist historian, Prof John Davies. He said that the works of Davies should be required reading, meaning, it should be the version of history taught in Welsh schools!!!

    And yes, why should the English speaking residents of Monmouthshire go quietly into second class citizenship?

    Let's raise the Monmouthshire issue as much as we see fit, it was all part and parcel of the Welsh establishments Cymraeg expansionism, and language enforcement.

    Please, Cheryl Gillan, if you do become the next Secretary of State for Wales, look closely at what the Llafur/Plaid coalition are attempting to indoctrinate our off-spring with?




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