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That's the way to do it!

Betsan Powys | 15:56 UK time, Tuesday, 20 October 2009

_40083332_punchandjudy203.jpgMark Isherwood is a mild mannered man. He is also the Conservative chair of Legislation Committee No.5 - the committee that is scrutinising the Welsh Lanuage LCO.

For a mild mannered man he's written a bluntly worded letter to Peter Hain. It chides him for briefing journalists on the draft Order before it was published. That showed "discourtesy." It then goes on to question the decision to allow a meeting of the Welsh Grand Committee to consider the Order at all.

"We do not understand why you would wish to add another stage, of little discernible benefit, to an already complex and lengthy process ... I strongly urge you to respect the conventions for pre-legislative scrutiny, and not to develop exceptions on an ad hoc basis, so that a consistent approach can be taken to how the Assembly acquires its legislative competence".

To you and me that's hardly Craig Revel-Horwood territory but to the Welsh Affairs Select Committee - who were copied in on the letter and who discussed it this morning - it's serious stuff.

It has apparently gone down "very, very badly".

Their arguments?

1. The meeting of the Welsh Grand did not delay the process.
2. The letter is misconceived in that it is parliament who decides whether there's a debate, not the Secretary of State. He simply facilitates it.
3. Far from delaying the process. It enhanced it.

The words "a certain amount of ignorance" and "contempt of parliament" came up in the conversation too, one which ended with a rhetorical question: can you imagine how the Presiding Officer would have responded if a parliamentary committee wrote to an Assembly Committee telling them how to run their business?

I thought you could.


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  • 1. At 4:41pm on 20 Oct 2009, Dewi_H wrote:

    Craig Revel-Horwood? - I'm racking my brain but have no idea who he is? some kind of consitutional guru??

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  • 2. At 4:41pm on 20 Oct 2009, thegnatswatter wrote:

    No Welsh Language LCO, No referendum, No Devolution not much of a One
    Wales Agreement.The last thing you'd want to do is upset Parliament?

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  • 3. At 6:53pm on 20 Oct 2009, thegnatswatter wrote:

    1. He's not on S4c thats for sure.A waltzing Matilda might give a clue?

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  • 4. At 7:02pm on 20 Oct 2009, puredrivelagain wrote:

    I'm forever racking my brains to work out why Westminster are so worried about the Welsh language. They have quite freely given control on Scots Gaelic to Holyrood, what's the difference here?

    It's not as if they care about the language

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  • 5. At 7:26pm on 20 Oct 2009, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:

    Westminster has every right to look after the rights of English speaking British folk, protecting them from the self righteous excesses of Llafur and Plaid language enforcers.

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  • 6. At 7:42pm on 20 Oct 2009, puredrivelagain wrote:

    You're quite right Jack and I'm so wrong, how could I not think that as soon as control passed to Cardiff everybody would immediately start speaking in Welsh.

    People struggle to speak English properly from a grammatical perspective, how do you propose that Welsh will soon fly out of them as if speaking tongues?

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  • 7. At 7:55pm on 20 Oct 2009, John Henry wrote:


    From the Welsh Language Society .....

    ... the LCO will have hardly any effect at all on the private sector and high street shops. There will be no obligation on most of the private sector to provide a bilingual service.

    and .....

    On November 6th this year Osian Jones will face a prison sentence for his part in the campaign for a stronger and more effective Language Act. ........... our direct action campaign for linguistic rights seems destined to continue, and we will see more and more people go to prison.

    ..... there lies the difference between linguistic Scotland and Wales, only in Wales are there a minority of people wishing for a linguistic legal cudgel.

    There are more urgent needs in Wales.

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  • 8. At 8:30pm on 20 Oct 2009, Jack_Wilkinson wrote:
    To give the Welsh language a secure future there must be a much more aggressive teaching campaign in Wales’s majority English-medium secondary schools. This is the main recommendation in Saving Our Language, a new IWA publication by Ken Hopkins

    Scary words from yet another Welsh Labour type, no wonder Welsh Labour are losing votes by the shed full. How exactly would they teach Welsh aggressively? Are they hoping to bring back corporal punishment? Scary!!!

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  • 9. At 9:11pm on 20 Oct 2009, penddu wrote:

    Just forget for a minute that this is about the language - it just highlights once again what a farce the whole LCO system is.

    I cant wait for the EJP report and the referendum. BRING IT ON!!

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  • 10. At 11:32pm on 20 Oct 2009, Ian wrote:

    Well done Mark Isherwood.

    Who the hell do the Welsh Grand Committee think they are? As far as Peter Hain is concerned, he has too much time on his hands. From what I hear, Gordon keeps him out of everything he can.

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  • 11. At 01:18am on 21 Oct 2009, TomosJohn wrote:

    Who do Welsh Labour MPs think they are voting for First Minister?

    No say in Labour Sec of State!

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  • 12. At 11:17am on 21 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    message 9...

    The problem is just that Penddu, the language cannot be pushed to the side, as the language IS the problem.

    As I, and others have stated, time and again, without the language to beat us with, there would be none of this LCO, or other nonsense, here in this region.

    Would this situation exist in Lancashire or Yorkshire, if they had an old language to fall back on?

    Possibly it would, but the plain truth is they have not, yet retain a regional 'identity' they call their own, just as do other parts of the UK, none of which are 'pawing the ground' in anticipation of separating themselves from the UK.

    So to put it bluntly, there is no way the language can be isolated from the whole, it is the 'reason d'etre' of the whole.

    But it is applicable to but a few out of the many, a fair estimate, in the lack of accurate figures, of maybe just 6 to 8% of the population of this region.

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  • 13. At 11:58am on 21 Oct 2009, FiDafydd wrote:

    Re 12

    Further statistical nonsense.

    Still an inability to accept the simple fact that the Welsh are a nation.

    Still an almost pathological obsession with the Welsh language.

    Lancashire and Yorkshire are counties!!!!!!!!!

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  • 14. At 12:31pm on 21 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    message 13...

    And Wales is a region made up of a half a dozen of the same.

    I am not obsessed with the language, only the misuse of it by a bunch of feather brained fools, who cannot see the extreme damage they are dfoing to it themselves, by the current performance of the nationalist element.

    Nation? don't be such a schoolkid.

    Your every message spells out the depths to which you have been indoctrinated, by those politico's who have gained access to your mental wellbeing.

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  • 15. At 1:58pm on 21 Oct 2009, puredrivelagain wrote:

    ...And your every message spells out the murky depth of your colonial indoctrination

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  • 16. At 2:53pm on 21 Oct 2009, lordBeddGelert wrote:

    1/ I believe he is someone who has landed a job in Llandudno. Whether he is having to learn Welsh for this seasonal work opportunity is not a question I can answer.

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  • 17. At 4:23pm on 21 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:


    At least I am more or less in cohorts with about 58 million others in the UK, that is discounting the rest of the Welsh, as you appear to think they are all scratching with irritation they are not getting themselves out from under Westminster. By the way do you have the mandate top speak for the rest of the Welsh. Or are you just too stupid to realise that maybe you are out on a limb, with the saw cutting the branch behind, you close to the trunk?

    Or maybe that 58 millions should really be 60 millions, as I consider a few hundred thousand, who, 'potentially', think along your lines, are the only ones who really, truly, and actually, count in this sort of nonsense, tit for tat, debate.

    The majority have it I believe.

    I actually can think for myself, I do not believe in colonialism, and would opt for a one world government,... My! how that would put a crimp in the agenda of the petty minded little Hitlers who are trying to turn Wales into a nationalist retreat.

    There is much that I am against in the UK, but with a one shot policy such as being attempted to be put in place in Wales, I can at least try to make sure it gets no further than it already has, in the hopes it will all be rescinded sooner than later.

    Nationalism is a state of mind, and Man(presumably)! don't you display your mental state with every message.

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  • 18. At 4:48pm on 21 Oct 2009, FiDafydd wrote:

    Re 17

    stranger and strange,

    "I actually can think for myself, I do not believe in colonialism, and would opt for a one world government,... My! how that would put a crimp in the agenda of the petty minded little Hitlers who are trying to turn Wales into a nationalist retreat."

    - this from the man who wants to deport Peter Hain because he isn't 'one of us'!!!!

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  • 19. At 5:44pm on 21 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:


    I would deport you with him, had I said such a thing, but just before that event takes place, liar that you are Pinocchio, please tell me where I said 'I would deport Hain'.

    Message number, and for once in your lifetime, be a good little wooden long nosed puppet, and be accurate.

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  • 20. At 6:46pm on 21 Oct 2009, West-Wales wrote:

    Isn't Tomorrow's Wales set up and funded from Organisations themselves set up and funded by Assembly Grants, and receiving considerable support from the Rowntree Trust Charity.

    Tomorrows Wales is effectively an organisation of and promoting the "One Wales" Government agenda.

    Now why would a creature of the Assembly, petition the Assembly???

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  • 21. At 7:15pm on 21 Oct 2009, West-Wales wrote:

    Sorry all #20 posted on the wrong thread - now copied (and corrected) to "Googlies and sticky wickets" post #21

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  • 22. At 9:43pm on 21 Oct 2009, FiDafydd wrote:

    Re 19

    So you've forgotten already have you, how - even for you - you shocked many of us yesterday with your your racist slur against immigrants, Peter Hain specifically. Again, I ask, what is the point of debating with you?

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  • 23. At 10:02pm on 21 Oct 2009, John Henry wrote:

    #22, FiDafydd, your political organisations, who gate crash our schools peddling Nationalist propaganda are worse than any racist, no different to the BNP, except they wouldn't get through the school gates.

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  • 24. At 10:32pm on 21 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 25. At 10:37pm on 21 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:


    where's the message number you refer to?

    I have a pachydermic memory, but cannot recall making any sort of 'racist' remark. Remind me of that number please.

    Maybe you are relying far too much on your somewhat incomplete education, and lack of lexiconograpic knowledeg in your denigration of my character.

    But as you have already failed to pass that number on, so everyone can refer back, I do not expect any such number to appear.

    One can live in hopes I suppose.

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  • 26. At 11:28pm on 21 Oct 2009, FiDafydd wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 27. At 11:41pm on 21 Oct 2009, puredrivelagain wrote:


    Where is my mandate to speak for the rest of the Welsh? I got it in the same place that you got yours, or is your senility so far advanced that you have forgotten how you claim to speak for the majority of Welsh people?

    Pot...Kettle...Black...Do try to think of something original in your forthcoming insult.

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  • 28. At 00:02am on 22 Oct 2009, FiDafydd wrote:

    Re 26

    I gave chapter and verse, as requested, but 'someone', despite that being what was asked for thinks that is one for the mods!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps 'someone' could explain?

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  • 29. At 08:32am on 22 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    message 27....

    Listen pal, I speak for myself, and no one else, however that said, my commentary is always on the one track, and will not be derailed by your natioanlistic fervour, and that track is, the Welsh need to be fully requested to offer their franchise for whatever is being done in their name, they patently are not, and so, I side with the disenfranchised majority.
    If you cannot see that, and differentiate my 'general' commentary from a personal agenda, then you belong in the same category as the fool who followed you on this blog, to whom I will now respond for a final time on the subject he is gnawing at....

    Message 28...

    All you were asked fo was the number. No doubt you went off on a tangent, having a luittle hissy fit, and throwing you usual bile into it, I would estimate the mods are taking a serious look at your input these days, as I certainly have not seen or responded to message 26.

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  • 30. At 11:19am on 22 Oct 2009, puredrivelagain wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 31. At 12:01pm on 22 Oct 2009, puredrivelagain wrote:

    I thought that might get moderated so...

    ...Mapexx, you're no pal of mine

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  • 32. At 12:31pm on 22 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:


    I am well aware of your implied animosity, a typical sort of response from someone with a warped sense of patriotism. One who cannot be bothered to argue constructively, or maybe because is incapable of so doing.

    One who cannot comprehend sarcasm when it is thrust into their face.

    Maybe if you tried to rationalise your thought process, and read carefully what is being stated, you may well take a few minutes to build sound responses, instead of shooting from the hip, which invariably means taking wild pot shots, thereby missing the target.

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  • 33. At 12:49pm on 22 Oct 2009, puredrivelagain wrote:

    I have done this in the past but my head hurt from the constant banging against the stone walls...

    You're nothing but a wind up merchant

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  • 34. At 1:28pm on 22 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    message 33...

    It seems I have certainly put the wind up you!

    Give me your address and I will pass a few of my prescription pain killers on to you, along with a nice clean bandage for your bruised napper.

    Would a well used crash helmet help at all?

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  • 35. At 1:39pm on 22 Oct 2009, puredrivelagain wrote:

    Has your wife bought a new crash helmet then? I'd say she'd need a few with you around.

    I'm sure passing around prescription pain killers is illegal Mappy, best keep them yourself.

    I'm afraid I can't give you my address as I'm planning on climbing one of the local hills tonight, building a house with chimney and throwing an axe to mark the boundaries of my new homestead. Once Royal Mail stop their strike and come give me my address you'll be welcome to visit. I hope you don't mind sleeping with the sheep though?

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  • 36. At 1:55pm on 22 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:


    Been doing it for thirty odd years, the wife is such a lovely little 'lamb', so cuddly, so warm to snuggle up to.

    (as for the tabs, I won't tell if you don't), and you will get a good nights sleep, despite that tup trying to get to his ewe.

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