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Platforms and panels

Betsan Powys | 13:27 UK time, Thursday, 22 October 2009

Where does BBC Wales stand on the issue of inviting the BNP onto its discussion programmes?

I've read some three versions of it over the past 24 hours - one in a press release from Plaid AM Leanne Wood's office, another based on that press release in the Western Mail and another in the Scotsman.

I'll start with the press release. Headlined "BBC Wales 'No to BNP' stance welcomed" it goes on to say that "BBC Wales has revealed that it will not be inviting the BNP on to its programmes, after an appeal from Plaid Cymru AM Leanne Wood".

The release was based on what Rhodri Talfan Davies, BBC Cymru Wales' Head of Strategy and Communications had said in his Emails to Leanne Wood:

"The starting point in determining what sort of representation any party should receive on programming in Wales, for example Pawb a'i Farn (which we produce for S4C), is their past and current levels of political support. Other factors, such as consistent trends in opinion polls, significant changes in the political context, etc, can also be taken into account ... The BNP has not to date achieved political representation in Wales or other evidence of significant electoral support, therefore there are no plans at present to invite the party onto the Pawb a'i Farn panel."

In today's Western Mail the headline reads "BBC Wales will not invite the BNP on to political panels" and the piece goes on to say that "BBC Wales will not be inviting BNP representatives on to political panel programmes because it judges that the far-right party has insufficient support in Wales. Its policy - revealed in a letter to Plaid Cymru AM Leanne Wood - differs from the BBC network, which tonight will broadcast an edition of Question Time including BNP leader Nick Griffin".

It doesn't say how the policy in Wales 'differs' from the BBC network, just that it does.

The Scotsman today carries a piece in which Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, warns Scots that the BNP is not "an English problem" and says that "it turned his stomach that the BNP would be on television." Peter Hain, his colleague the Welsh Secretary, has said again that allowing Nick Griffin to appear on Question Time is "worst decision" the BBC has made in recent times. Towards the end of the piece the SNP are reported to have "called on BBC Scotland to follow BBC Wales and ban any broadcasts that include the BNP".

So, once again, where does BBC Wales stand on the issue of inviting the BNP onto the panels of its disussion programmes?

You may strongly wish it otherwise, or you may not, but as I understand it, there is nothing in BBC Wales' policy that differs to the policy adopted by the BBC as a whole. BBC Wales is applying exactly the same policy as BBC network but because electoral support for the BNP in Wales has until now not been as strong as in parts of England, the result in Wales is different. In Wales they got 37,118 votes in the European election. They have no MEPs here. They have no county councillors either.

Same policy, different result. Just because you get different answers, that doesn't mean to say the questions asked aren't exactly the same. As I say you may wish it otherwise. You may think the questions are wrong, let alone the answers they elicit. My point is only that the questions asked here - and there - are no different.

Where will I be tonight at 10.30pm? In the Dragon's Eye studio. Question Time will be broadcast here in Wales but as usual, it'll be on half and hour later here than for viewers in the rest of the UK.

Comments

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  • 1. At 3:51pm on 22 Oct 2009, Cardiffian2008 wrote:

    "Question Time will be broadcast here in Wales but as usual, it'll be on half and hour later here than for viewers in the rest of the UK."

    An absolute disgrace! BBC CYMRU/wales are out of step on this scheduling issue. It's no wonder that so many aerials point towards England. Thankfully Sky, Virgin media and digital all provide BBC 1 London somewhere in the high numbers so we can join in the live debate via email and the red button with the rest of our friends in the UK.

    But of course our nationalist infiltrated media here in Wales doesn't seem to want us to integrate with our friends over the border on the flagship political programme broadcast in the UK. No No... they'd sooner have us watch propoganda and debate LCO's and the future of the Welsh language till we're bored to death whilst the rest of the UK deals with the bigger issues!

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  • 2. At 4:23pm on 22 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    Betsan...

    Not that I offer any succour to the BNP, its members, or the very few that have managed to get 'elected' wherever.

    But as I see it, we have a bunch of people across the whole UK who run for the bushes as soon as the 'bad man cometh into view'.

    I substantively object to being told by those I consider to be one track minded (politics) morons, with personal 'grab what they can' agendas, telling me, a very astute and intelligent politics scarifier, that they know what is good for me.

    They don't!

    So Mr N Griffin represents a particular point of view that does not sit well with the current establishment. Well now, if he manages to increase his support, which according to what I have been hearing at street level, is a likely scenario for the not too distant future, to the extent he manages to get into a position of some power, will these same nanny minded censors, who today call for him to be banned from the media, be still as vociferous in their call.
    Or, as is more than likely, taking past experience and historical fact into consideration, will they be the first to jump ship from the safe little yacht they currently sail on, onto the new ocean going craft Mr Griffin will be an officer, if indeed not the captain, on.

    As I view these censors, they invariably opt to save their own derriere whenever their own little craft appears to be floundering.

    Unless the people are allowed to see and hear Griffin, and his ilk, perform, they are likely to think the state has something to hide, and under the present crunch time circumstances, come to believe that, maybe, he has the answers they want.

    Then, when the time comes, opt for his party, as they are sick to death of the present political scene, if for no other reason, but in their ignorance of what he has to offer, because they want a change, which the present cluster of parliamentarians have, to date, seemingly failed to come up with.

    The network BBC has its finger on the button, and has chosen to do the right thing, the Welsh branch are a knot of moral cowards with an indecent approach to both Griffin, and the listening, and viewing public who just happen to pay their wages, not for them to censor, but to provide, according to the BBC Charter. So far I have heard nothing except a rather outlandish demand for immigrants to be paid to exit our shores, that is a common cry from the individuals I come across, whenever the matter of immigration etc comes into view..

    I am not, and I am certain the bulk of the Welsh are not, stupid, and can make up our own minds without having them made up for us by a cabal of undemocratic censors.
    The excuse he has no mandate from Wales is pathetic, for as I, and I am sure others will see it, once exposed, he may well never get a mandate in this region.

    As I said above, by denying him access to the media, he is being given, potentially, a sympathy vote in any future election, here in Wales.

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  • 3. At 4:42pm on 22 Oct 2009, FiDafydd wrote:

    Re 1

    I'm not that keen to see Griffin being given air-space to spout his bile and evil. And as the BNP has very little support in Wales, perhaps it shouldn't be shown here at all. Now that would be meaningful devolution. Those who want to listen to him can then go to SKY for their gratification...

    A little bird told me, Cardiffian, that it will be exactly the same programme - only, half an hour later. That's all. How anyone can see that as a disgrace is beyond me!

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  • 4. At 4:51pm on 22 Oct 2009, John Henry wrote:


    Before driving off into the wilds East of Offa's Dyke, I would say that democracy is more important than a persons like or dislike for a political party.

    The BBC Wales policy, as described above in Betsan's blog is nothing more than obfuscation where it states ....

    ".... the same policy as BBC network but because electoral support for the BNP in Wales has until now not been as strong as in parts of England, the result in Wales is different. In Wales they got 37,118 votes in the European election. They have no MEPs here. They have no county councillors either."

    Why then did BBC Wales invite "True Wales" several times to participate on political programmes. This example demonstrates a "prejudice" by BBC Cymru Wales' Head of Strategy and Communications, or possibly an example of how it is manipulated by Welsh politics.

    The prejudice is further underpinned when the following is extracted from the Email sent to Leanne Wood ..... "The BNP has not to date achieved political representation in Wales or other evidence of significant electoral support, therefore there are no plans at present to invite the party onto the panel." Any decision at BBC Wales must be political.

    If people such as Assembly Member Leanne Wood and others of a fragile constitution are able to influence editorial policy, our democracy is in a more fragile state than I thought, if they are not strong enough to take on the BNP should we be looking for better representatives.

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  • 5. At 5:03pm on 22 Oct 2009, Dewi_H wrote:

    "they'd sooner have us watch propoganda and debate LCO's and the future of the Welsh language till we're bored to death whilst the rest of the UK deals with the bigger issues! "

    With all due respect I humbly suggest that debates on this blog on the Welsh language tend not be instigated from the Nationalist side - and believe me some of us are bored stiff with it.

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  • 6. At 5:16pm on 22 Oct 2009, Betsan wrote:

    #2 mapex 55

    You say that "The network BBC has its finger on the button, and has chosen to do the right thing, the Welsh branch are a knot of moral cowards with an indecent approach to both Griffin, and the listening, and viewing public who just happen to pay their wages, not for them to censor, but to provide, according to the BBC Charter".

    How come, when both are applying exactly the same policy?

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  • 7. At 5:43pm on 22 Oct 2009, Cardiffian2008 wrote:

    "A little bird told me, Cardiffian, that it will be exactly the same programme - only, half an hour later. That's all. How anyone can see that as a disgrace is beyond me!"

    Mappex is right... obviously things beyond your village dont interest you and you've never watched Question Time which, as I said earlier is the flagship political debate show on tv in the UK.

    The reason, it is a disgrace is because we in Wales pay our license fee like everybody else but we cannot interact 'live' with the rest if the UK. What is David Dimbleby going to do with the email sent from Wales 30 mins too late when they've long since moved onto the next subject??? File it under drawer B1N that's what!

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  • 8. At 6:04pm on 22 Oct 2009, MasterAgreeable wrote:

    No.1

    Most right-minded people would consider "an absolute disgrace" a suitable description of the BNP and their odious policies. Some people have different priorities, it would seem.

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  • 9. At 6:17pm on 22 Oct 2009, West-Wales wrote:

    Fidafyd #3
    it will be exactly the same programme; well yes - but - the live program is interactive!!!

    Those in Wales not paying SKY, are excluded from participation.
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    More important things here - freedom of speech and political expression.

    Whatever we may think about the BNP Policies or Griffin's views.
    He does represent a legal Political Party that has fought elections and has some electoral support.
    As long as his statements stay within the Law he has a right to be heard!!!

    If anyone wishes to contest his views they have a right to do so (in this case - a duty).
    It is only by subjecting his opinions to critical analysis on a public forum like "Question Time" that the horror of the BNP stance can be exposed.

    Like the BNP there are other political parties whose agenda I find repulsive - but as long as they stay within the law, not only do they have a right to be heard - they should be heard - it is the only way they can be exposed.

    But BBC Wales has a point, the BNP have little support in Wales only 3% of the EU Vote.
    But I get a little nervous when political parties succeed in banning other legal constituted parties from debate. (1930's and all that).

    Perhaps the message here is about Plaid, and its position on freedom of expression!!

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  • 10. At 7:50pm on 22 Oct 2009, Crossroads wrote:


    Coyly, I must admit that the anticipation of watching this BNP edition of Questiontime bolstered by clever BBC publicising, has me impatient for 11 o'clock to arrive.

    Not since the Cassius Clay V Sonny Liston fight,or something that happened in 1966(!) or Neal Armstrong's giant steps, has a TV programme captured the imagination to such an extent!

    OK so I exaggerate, but tonight's 'show' has me worried. Our Nick has had many weeks to prepare himself for this performance. You can be sure he has rehearsed being questioned on every topic likely to arise...including the 'bleedin obvious' ones. If he keeps his cool and manages to score a few points we could be in for some trouble.

    If it becomes obvious that Jack Straw and the others are ganging up on the fragile and delicate one, plus the rentagob element of the audience manage to overdo the booing, then Mr.Griffin might walk away from this smelling of roses...the voice of moderation and reasonableness even.(Gawd 'elp us)

    I pray the above doesn't happen. But I have an awful suspicion that it might.

    This edition of Questiontime carries one hell of a lot on its shoulders. I sincerely hope that at least one of the other guests aims some first class humour at Mr. Griffin. For it is humour that his type fear the most, and quite possibly something he wouldn't have counted on.

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  • 11. At 7:51pm on 22 Oct 2009, MasterAgreeable wrote:

    No.9

    "it will be exactly the same programme; well yes - but - the live program is interactive!!!"

    Question Time is usually pre-recorded earlier in the evening, and I believe tonight's edition will be no different.

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  • 12. At 9:31pm on 22 Oct 2009, Neocromwellian wrote:


    Politicians Should Blame Themselves and Not the BBC

    While I share all the concerns about the appearance of the BNP on question time the BBC are right to invite them on, you cannot ignore the fact that so many people voted for them in the European elections. Like Kelvin McKenzie said we should blame the voters.

    For me the real outrage is the attitude of Peter Hain and others who condemn the BBC, when they should look to themselves as being to blame, the rise of the BNP is a symptom of the failure of the political process.

    Blaming the BBC disguises the fact that anyone with a grievance is simply ignored by politicians who are afraid to commit themselves to telling anbody the time of day. They should listen to the other side of the extremist divide to the complaint that nothing works, people are simply fobbed off.

    Therefore voters turn to those who listen and are not afraid to speak their mind, they may not necessarily agree with BNP policy its somebody who simply responds to their fears. Its happened so many times before but they never learn, it is so predictable that politicians will let them do it again.

    I think the BBC has delivered a wake up call that hopefully will lead to politicians being not only being tough on fascism but also tough on the causes of fascism!

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  • 13. At 9:36pm on 22 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    Betsan...




    From your heading report


    '....In today's Western Mail the headline reads "BBC Wales will not invite the BNP on to political panels" and the piece goes on to say that "BBC Wales will not be inviting BNP representatives on to political panel programmes because it judges that the far-right party has insufficient support in Wales. Its policy - revealed in a letter to Plaid Cymru AM Leanne Wood - differs from the BBC network, which tonight will broadcast an edition of Question Time including BNP leader Nick Griffin".

    It doesn't say how the policy in Wales 'differs' from the BBC network, just that it does....'


    If it had the balls to do so, it would have explained why it took the stance.


    But that is only part of the matter, whenever a chance could be given to a anti devolutionist, to have open season on the Cardiff Bay menage, does the BBC make facilities available, no it bloody well does not, in fact I would go as far as to say, there is a deep seated reluctance to allow anyone access to the airwaves that may potentially prejudice the perceived cosy arrangement between the BBC Wales and the Assembly, maybe therein also lies a degree of moral cowardice.


    Surely from the number, and ferocity, of antipathetic messages on this and other blogs, someone with a bit of clout in the BBC could realise the possibility of a hard hitting programme that could take the debate to a much wider audience than just the, more or less, one to one situation that these blogs effectively provide.

    We are subsumed in a welter of nationalistic propaganda, often covering many hours in total on the BBC, but with hardly a word from those who oppose the whole concept of devolution.

    Yes, I know True Wales has had an odd minute or three, but when we are perpetually bombarded with reports from the Assembly, coupled to the Assembly being broadcast live most of the week, those in opposition hardly rate a look in do they.

    Where is the BBC in all of this, they must be aware such opposition exists if only from reading these blog pages, so how about stirring the pot a bit on our behalf and getting someone in the right position to take a stand and give us as loud a voice as that coming from the language nutcases who have hijacked the politico/social order in Wales.


    Or does my suspicious mental radar actually scan moral cowardice after all.

    Let's see if you can persuade me otherwise.


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  • 14. At 10:29pm on 22 Oct 2009, FiDafydd wrote:

    Re 9

    I can't believe that West-Wales whilst discussing a matter like this concludes with something that isn't even a cheap shot!

    Re 7

    Cardiffian,

    DD isn't going to do anything with it - he will have gone home himself by the time it's broadcast in England!!! So, some perspective here - is this really what is bothering you most today?!

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  • 15. At 11:10pm on 22 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    Sorry Betsan, I did give an answer, but your moderator pal, was it Rebeca?... seesm to be rather sensitive on behalf of her employer.

    So as I said, moral cowardice does appear to prevail in the BBC.

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  • 16. At 00:57am on 23 Oct 2009, Cardiffian2008 wrote:

    Message no.8:
    no "absolute disgrace" is about right for BBC Cymru Wales delaying the broadcast of the most popular political program in the UK ! ' I'd choose far stronger language than that to describe the BNP and their odious policies!

    Message no.14:
    yes it is what's bothering me the most today(although thanks to BBC CYMRU it is now in fact tomorrow)! I want to watch question time with the rest of the uk, get to bed at a reasonable hour and not be reminded about how I'm missing out with messages saying "interactive services are not available" all over my screen .

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  • 17. At 01:05am on 23 Oct 2009, Ian wrote:

    By not allowing the BNP on a Welsh panel programme, the BBC are being wholly consistent with their UK policy-in terms of the reasons given to allow Griffin on. If they get several Councillors and say an AM in Wales, then the position will have to change.

    Well done BBC Wales for being consistent.

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  • 18. At 08:08am on 23 Oct 2009, Neocromwellian wrote:

    BNP on a Welsh Programme is Only a Matter of Time!

    I agree with the reasons why the BBC would not allow the BNP onto a Welsh programme, however, more needs to be done to make the political process work to keep it that way.

    Have you ever tried to get a serious cause for concern together with the fact that so called procedures are being obstructed and perverted into the news, into the Welsh Assembly or to Peter Hain.

    If you have you will know that you get lip service and then ignored or pathetic excuses are made.It does not matter which party you approach the response is just the same, whos side are they on, their own.

    This may explain why some people see the only solution is to either break the law or vote for some extreme organisation who will do it for them.

    We need politicians who will serve something other than themselves and their party, they must be tired of the sound of their own voice as they do not listen to anyone else.

    Is the BBC Failing Victims of Social Injustice

    As far as the BBC is concerned in allowing the BNP airspace they have answered one side of the coin we need to challenge them to address the other.

    We need Public Service Broadcasting that is going to do more investigative journalism into the councils and institutions that hand out social injustice with impunity that are the causes of extremism, and less of a messenger boy to bring only good, censored and sanitised, news from Cardiff Bay to keep the little people in their place.

    It is this context that BBC Wales needs to show some courage, and given the high proportion of voters who who would agree with this, when is our voice going to be heard.

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  • 19. At 10:02am on 23 Oct 2009, Ian Williams wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 20. At 11:31am on 23 Oct 2009, West-Wales wrote:

    Having watched some of the program and looking over the front pages of today's papers its obvious that the problem is the protesters.

    Without the mob and media hype, this would have been a non event.

    Griffin has no charisma or message, his position was effectively destroyed.
    With one caveat - facing the public did the BNP cause no good at all, it showed them up for what they are!!
    The caveat - the British public takes pity on any creature outnumbered and defenceless - 5 panelists and a hostile audience - there will be those who feel pity for Griffin.

    The problem is the Protest.
    The politicians who wring maximum self (or party) publicity, beat the hate drum, highly public appeals to the media, - then the orchestrated crowds of anti BNP protesters, the headlines and media overkill.

    Without all that - the BNP appearance on question time who have been such a farce they would never have been asked back.

    As it was the BNP get publicity that must be worth millions, - its the only way they can get publicity - thank you protesters.

    For me the question is; - Why are politicians so obviously terrified, afraid of free speech, prepared to drum up the mob to stop people expressing a view.
    Instead of using the democratic process and reasoned argument to defeat and discredit these extremists.

    Or are they:

    Is it fear, lack of confidence that right will prevail, - or is it more sinister, to set the precedent, deny freedom of expression to all with whom we disagree - The BNP today, tomorrow maybe you or me!!

    We would all be much more secure, if these posturing opinionated politicians, and some journalists, made as much fuss about protecting our rights and freedoms - instead of demanding they are denied.

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  • 21. At 3:38pm on 23 Oct 2009, thegnatswatter wrote:

    With a record audience of 8 million I think Nick Griffin achieved his
    goal, today we see every national newspaper carry the story and this
    lunchtime Griffen says he was treated badly and wants a re-run.On this
    occasion I think the BBC tactics backfired as the strength and ferosity
    of the attack on him actually helped him and he managed to make points
    that would appeal to many in the far right. If they didn't know who Nick Griffen was and stood for they certainly do now.
    With viewing figures of 8 million and coverage on every news paper Nick
    Griffen is the man all these failing newspapers want to interview.
    As I speak Sky are interviewing him so he will now have global coverage
    Yes he and his policies are nasty and evil but the BBC has turned him into a 'must have comodity' expect to see him soon on the late night chat shows. How long before he appears on the Politics Programme or Dragons Eye not long I'll wager.


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  • 22. At 4:17pm on 23 Oct 2009, Neocromwellian wrote:


    #23

    Is it fear, lack of confidence that right will prevail, - or is it more sinister, to set the precedent, deny freedom of expression to all with whom we disagree - The BNP today, tomorrow maybe you or me!!

    It is already you and me

    Thats why people vote for the BNP and other extremists, as so many have said on the radio regarding this issue they do not agree with all that the BNP says but its the only way to be heard.

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  • 23. At 4:47pm on 23 Oct 2009, Igotitallwrongsorry wrote:

    I totally agree with the comments on the "impartiality" of BBC CYMRU with regard to the position of wales within the UK,and the devolution settlement currently in place. The BBC network services clearly have left wing leaning policies,however in the dealing with issues seem pretty well balanced and opposed to HMG policies on Iraq etc etc,however BBC CYMRU is firmly in the current devolutionist/more powers camp and anybody with "sceptical" views on current performance down Bay is hardly ever on our media. As is posted elsewhere by Betsan a civil servant has reported that a Billion Pounds is being "wasted" as part of NHS budget of £5 Billion in Wales,i.e. 20% which does seem alarmingly high,however the same group of people have been running this service for over 10years. Its a given that all programmes has a certain amount of "wastage",however at 20% this is totally out of control and in effect is having severe detrimental impact on quality of service to taxpayers. Let the contenders who wish to be FM address this issue and how it is to be corrected in public debate on TV,with knowledgable audience who could pick at their ideas etc. If this figure of 20% is extrapolated over the whole of public sector in wales then the possible savings to taxpayers/or better services or a mixture of both could totally transform the economy in wales. Why do we have to rely on civil servant to inform the Assembly of this appalling level of incompetance,rather than within political structure. In conclusion in my opinion there should be a public inquiry into the lack of objectivity of BBC CYMRU,including the seemingly over representation of welsh speakers in the english language service,particularly at management level.

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  • 24. At 5:13pm on 23 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    Betsdan....

    re messages 13 and 15....

    It seems a rethink has been taken,...13 has been approved, and replaced.

    Please consider 15 retracted.

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  • 25. At 5:30pm on 23 Oct 2009, alhjones wrote:

    I find it strange and inconsistent for BBC Wales and Lianne Wood to complain, she welcomed her inclusion on QT in Cornwall earlier in the year discussing issues on England and the UK.

    Whilst not ever thinking of supporting the BNP, I have served this country in parts of the world, to supposable bring democracy and free speech to those regions, yet we are not allowing the same rights of voice to a disenfranchised minority of the electorate in Wales. Apparently democracy does not start at home!

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  • 26. At 9:02pm on 23 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    25....


    I presume you refer to the few thousands who voted for the BNP in Wales?

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  • 27. At 09:15am on 24 Oct 2009, alhjones wrote:

    26 those 'few thousands' where more than 25% of the vote cast for each of the 4 elected parties in Wales, my point is I have seen friends die in the name of the UK exporting democracy but we are not practising it at home.

    Table 1: Summary table, 2009 European Parliamentary elections in Wales
    Number of
    votes Share of vote
    Number of
    seats won
    Elected
    Members
    British National Party 37,114 5.4%
    Christian Party 13,037 1.9%
    Conservative Party 145,193 21.2% 1 Kay Swinburne
    Green Party 38,160 5.6%
    Jury Team 3,793 0.6%
    Labour Party 138,852 20.3% 1 Derek Vaughan
    Liberal Democrats 73,082 10.7%
    No2EU: Yes to Democracy 8,600 1.3%
    Plaid Cymru 126,702 18.5% 1 Jill Evans
    Socialist Labour Party 12,402 1.8%
    UK Independence Party 87,585 12.8% 1 John Bufton
    Total valid votes cast 684,520
    Turnout (a) 30.5%
    Source: Regional Returning Officer
    (a) All votes cast (including spoiled papers) as a percentage of the electorate.

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  • 28. At 09:36am on 24 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    26.....


    Yup! that's clear enough.

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  • 29. At 11:17am on 24 Oct 2009, Lyn David Thomas wrote:

    Shame on anyone voting for the BNP, they are complicit in promoting racism.

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  • 30. At 1:28pm on 24 Oct 2009, geejaybee wrote:


    What I find as repugnant as Nick Griffin is the arrogance and hubris of Peter Hain who clearly sees himself as intelligent and critical enough to know the BNP for the odious party they are, but who makes the assumption that we lesser being cannot make the same distinction and need him to make it for us.
    Now he is trumpetimg the "fact" that he has been proved right as interest in the BNP has apparently increased. The reason that this is precisely because the behaviour of the panel, audience, protesters and David Dimbleby engendered some underdog sympathy for NG, is lost on Peter Hain, so convinced is he of the superiority his own judgement.
    For a man who has lived for 20 years or more on the merits of long past achievements in the anti-apartheid movement that is some feat.

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  • 31. At 2:06pm on 24 Oct 2009, mapex55 wrote:

    message 29....


    In this country, the UK, we have the democratic right to vote for anyone who is presented to us as a candidate for whatever forum.

    To my knowledge Griffin has broken no law in being so elected, nor have those who democratically elected him.

    Would you say the same about those Tory administrations that have caused many deaths, as frustrated and cast aside people have committed suicide because of Tory policy, what about those who are being killed in the middle east, wou,d you say the same about the Labour party and the Tories, as it would appear they are responsible for those deaths by sending troops, or agreeing with the decision to do so, into another sovereign state, uninvited by the way?

    There as some aspects of policy that comes from both Tory and Labour, I can readily agree with, others I can readily, and sometimes violently disagree with, and even the bNP has a few points that are worth considering, if taken in isolation from the rest of their bumph.

    But Griffin was not permitted to expound on his general policy, or idealology, because those true blooded British tolerants, gave him no leeway.

    That is the truth of the matter, plain and simple.

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