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Race and racism in South Africa

Andrew Harding | 08:00 UK time, Tuesday, 13 April 2010

eugene226afp.jpgI moved to South Africa just over a year ago, and the very first white man I met - the gregarious owner of a serviced-apartment complex in Johannesburg - casually offered me his thoughts about the "baboons" who would eventually wreck this "magical country."

Since then I've encountered plenty of enlightened, tolerant, optimistic people. But I have never lived in a place more openly, exhaustingly, poisonously preoccupied with race and racism. It's thoroughly understandable, of course.

Apartheid is still fairly fresh in its grave and it will surely take another generation or more to reverse its viciously warped economic legacies. But as Justice Malala argues in his weekly column, there is a danger that South Africa's vital debate about apartheid's aftermath is being hijacked by extremists on both sides, diverting attention away from the core challenges facing the country.

Last week was a particularly bruising one. Eugene Terreblanche was a vile and increasingly irrelevant figure in South Africa. But his violent death, the reaction from his supporters, and the ongoing speculation about it have touched raw nerves.

The anger I've heard from black colleagues is well summed up in this piece by Andile Mngxitama.

I recently got a phone call from someone very close to the ANC leadership. He sounded genuinely worried. "It's been the worst possible week for race relations - especially with the World Cup coming," he said.

And then, of course, there is Julius Malema - the enfant terrible of South African politics - I wrote about him in more detail recently here. He has been mouthing off about Zimbabwe, as well as President Zuma and a BBC colleague here in Johannesburg.malema226ap.jpg See here and here for more.

That prompted another prominent ANC official to write privately to our office to express his fury that "my leaders desert the core values of my movement by not repudiating every odious statement he makes". Eventually the ANC did publicly condemn Mr Malema's comments.

Julius Malema reminds me increasingly of a man called Vladimir Zhirinovsky who used to play the populist clown in post-Soviet Russia, but who also gained a significant popular following and was often suspected of being a frontman for more powerful forces. Does anyone have any better comparisons?

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  • 1. At 09:35am on 13 Apr 2010, Barry James wrote:

    As a Proud South African ANC & Tripartate Alliance member, i dont understand the writers theatrical portrayal of my country. Perhaps he should research his own countries history as well as what it is doing in the East.

    Our country has many deep rooted scares that will take many years to heal, however to judge & post this blog on a site that many will read is extremely sad. Ofcourse our young democracy is struggling in many instances but it does not make it any easier with the colonial legacy left behind by the writers homeland.

    Please spend a couple more years here before you come to any concklusions. with regards to Malema: The NEC of the ANC will eventually discipline him, calm down journos and focus on the devastation caused by your own countries, more importantly: WHAT HAPPENED TO BIN LADEN????

    Regards
    Barry - Cape Town

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  • 2. At 09:37am on 13 Apr 2010, Andre Barendse wrote:

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  • 3. At 09:40am on 13 Apr 2010, olga wrote:

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  • 5. At 10:05am on 13 Apr 2010, Norman Conquest wrote:

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  • 6. At 10:06am on 13 Apr 2010, Jerome Southgate wrote:

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  • 7. At 10:11am on 13 Apr 2010, Kachi wrote:

    I'm a bit surprised that the death of Mr Eugene Terreblanche has been blown out of proportion by the likes of Mr Harding. Mr Eugene was a man that a track record of racial abuse and constantly vomitted racial venom and from all indications, it continued till his death. I'll like everyone to focus on the reasons why those young fella did what they did. Did they do their job and not get paid? Under what conditions did they do their job?

    I'll like to state clearly that I condemn the killing of Mr Eugene and would want the full weight of the law applied in this case because everyone has an equal right under the law. No one has the right to take ones life.

    Let us de-emphasize this racial tones and focus on building open communications that would help in healing the wounds of a lifetime.

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  • 8. At 10:15am on 13 Apr 2010, rooikat wrote:

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  • 9. At 10:20am on 13 Apr 2010, ezekiel joshua wrote:

    I think the south africans must be generally very careful here about this colour issue and learn more about diversity,the black guys must understand the this same white guys has help in development and infrastructure design and upgrade of SA in years back regardless of some little appatheid reflections they might encounter...two people from diffrernce form of origin can never be the same withought a perfect understanding and colour separation mentalities

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  • 10. At 10:25am on 13 Apr 2010, Rufus wrote:

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  • 11. At 10:27am on 13 Apr 2010, Gabrielus wrote:

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  • 12. At 10:27am on 13 Apr 2010, JustinCase-ZN wrote:

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  • 13. At 10:36am on 13 Apr 2010, siralando wrote:

    It might help if the South African government and the media would cease dividing humanity into "black" or "white". This is as absurd as it is untrue. People's skins come in a variety of shades.

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  • 14. At 10:39am on 13 Apr 2010, Martyn abrahams wrote:

    I am S African and I have the following to add:
    People may take sides in any dispute, that is the joy of free thought. However, there are a few discrepancies when it comes to S Africa and S A politics where the use of free speech has left the country divided.

    1. It is the onus of the government (ANC) to be responsible for it's own members.
    With various members of this party bleeding the coffers dry there is very little genuine leadership. Accountability is practically zero. Nepotism and cronyism is rife, as is corruption. Who losses out? The poor uneducated guy trying to make ends meet who voted them into power!

    2. Democracy is to be respected
    The ANC have used Democracy to further their own ambitions, not that of the country as a whole. Whenever there is a problem, the ANC deflect the issue by blaming the whites for the problems of the country. When a DA councillor uses the F word out of frustration he is suspended for it but...see below.

    3. The whites have all the jobs
    The whites are the only people keeping the country afloat. They are the only ones paying taxes whilst the largely informal community does not. That includes water and electricity.
    The idea that the whites have all the jobs also does not hold water as due to BEE and AA policies there are, according to the manpower companies like Kelly, a huge amount of jobs that cannot be filled and are left vacant because they have to be AA and BEE compliant.

    4. Arrogance and hate speech
    When a member of the ANC parliament Winkie Direko makes a threatening gesture in parliament in which she drew her finger across her throat at a DA councillor in a gesture unbecoming of a member of parliament there was NO recourse or when Malema is (finally) given a light slap on the wrist.
    What then does that tell you about the workings of the party?



    The ANC must stop riding on the "credibility" of Nelson Mandela and their standing in the world straight after democracy. Become responsible for CREATING jobs not taking them away. Creating an infrastructure for learning and education for ALL people. There has to also be a sense of accountability and reality, the quota system only leads to a breakdown or inferior education or job opportunities.

    For SA to become anything the ANC has to stop using hate speech, stop using the whites as scapegoats, stop the crime and corruption. Stop letting their members getting away with criminal acts. STOP AGGRAVATING RACIAL ISSUES!



    The ideology they prescribe is redundant and if they are in favour of keeping votes by doing all the above then it is to the detriment of the rest of society they will regret it in the end when they have slain the golden goose which now seems to be gasping for breath.

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  • 15. At 10:48am on 13 Apr 2010, Gabrielus wrote:

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  • 16. At 10:58am on 13 Apr 2010, mike wrote:

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  • 17. At 10:58am on 13 Apr 2010, AceofSpades25 wrote:

    I'm surprised that all these so called "experts" on South Africa think they know better than Andrew Harding, just because they have lived there longer!

    I grew up and lived there 24 years, and I think Andrew has managed to sum up the situation perfectly.

    At least Andrew can claim to be an objective observer, coming in from the outside without any existing bias. This surely cannot be said for people that have grown up there and continue to live there.

    Excellent article Andrew. Keep up the good writing.

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  • 18. At 11:03am on 13 Apr 2010, Martyn abrahams wrote:

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  • 19. At 11:09am on 13 Apr 2010, Mike wrote:

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  • 20. At 11:10am on 13 Apr 2010, HaydnC wrote:

    Andrew has given his perspective on race relations in South Africa and has helpfully prefaced it with a little background on how long he has been there. Must he live in South Africa for 10, 20 or 30 years before he can qualify for an opinion? Journalists go to the where the news is happening and interpret the events.

    I don't agree with all of Andrew's blog, but I am interested in his perspective. It is informed and articulate. I wish I could say the same for the comments!

    As an aside, Rooikat might be interested to know that New Zealand has had a Maori Governor-General and a Maori Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister. So a Maori Prime Minister cannot be far off. The current Prime Minister is Jewish and the previous one was a woman.

    I was disappointed by Andre Barendse's comments. I initially thought he was explaining the position in South Africa somewhat accurately. But then he had to go and make some very incorrect statements about Africa pre-European colonisation.

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  • 21. At 11:11am on 13 Apr 2010, Martyn abrahams wrote:

    Andrew, you have written an excellent article. I think that it is time that people face up to facts. It is difficult being an outsider but sometimes it is what is needed, a fresh approach. And great as far as constructive criticism goes. Unfortunately not everyone will share this sentiment.

    The problem is that the truth is sometimes difficult for those to grasp who have a bias opinion. Who base their viewpoints on an emotional or uninformed dogma. Another reason why Africa is in such dire straights.
    Keep up the good work

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  • 22. At 11:17am on 13 Apr 2010, TrueToo wrote:

    17. AceofSpades25 wrote:

    "At least Andrew can claim to be an objective observer, coming in from the outside without any existing bias."

    Being an outsider is no guarantee of objectivity. Mr. Harding works for the BBC. That in itself is practically a guarantee of left wing bias. I note that he made his declaration of intent at the very beginning of this article - with an illustration of gross racism from a white man, as if examples of black racism are somehow difficult to come across in South Africa.

    And why jump across to another continent to find a comparison for Malema when Mugabe is the obvious choice?

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  • 23. At 11:23am on 13 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    Malema and ET are both cut from the same cloth if you ask me. I am a white man and I did not grow up in apartheid. I was born in 1988. But even while I did not have anything to do with apartheid I need to stand back for black people in the sporting and working place because I am to white, even though I am much more qualified than the black person. So please tel me if that is not racism?

    Why is it always just white people who are racists? Malema can sing about killing boers(white farmers)but when a white person only looks at a black person in a funny way he is a racist. Why do we still blame apartheid for all the governments problems almost 20 years after it ended?

    All I ever hear is that black people in this country is still fighting for freedom because of white oppression, I can not in my right mind understand why that is? Then only ones who are oppressing them are their own fat cat comrades in parliament.

    On all the forums the black people say that all the white folks should leave South Africa because this country is theirs(blacks). This is my country two, I pay tax to live here, I was born here , I contribute to this country , I take black people into employment... But lets not forget that it was the white people who fought in the boere war who freed this country from Britain all those years ago... I just wish all these people saying that the white boere should leave would give visa's and money for a one way ticket to Europe. I am certain every single white in this country would leave if they had the chance.

    I love this country with all my heart but the sad reality is that I am now making final arrangements to take my business to Thailand. So unfortunately I will have to let my 10-15 "black" staff go when a relocate to Thailand.

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  • 24. At 11:34am on 13 Apr 2010, Brian848 wrote:

    A better Russian comparison is with Stalin. He declared a state of perpetual revolution, even when the Soviet grip on power was absolute. He delighted in provocative language. He used dubious methods to eventually get to the top. He had no respect for old revolutionaries, especially those who might oppose him. And, I am sure if Mr Malema were to come to power, he too would preside over a famine or two.....

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  • 25. At 11:35am on 13 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    I do not think there is anything wrong with Andrews article. And why should write over what is happening in the east? If someone terrorizes your country will you just stand back and watch it happen? And the anc are desperate to keep their votes that is why they stir up racial tensions to keep votes.

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  • 26. At 11:38am on 13 Apr 2010, Travis Smithard wrote:

    At 10:11am on 13 Apr 2010, Kachi , Sir/Ma'am i iagrre completeley with what you are saying about the full weight of the law and no body has the right to take anothers life, however i must draw your attention to the fact that Mr Terre Blanche while being a notorious white supremecist is known to have looked after his workers with a degree of respect that had many of them admiring him. I live in South Africa and i think can get a better gauge of what is truly happening 'on the ground' so to speak. This Country has been in utter turmoil the last 2 weeks with many ANC officials, including our President Zuma and Julius Malema signing the 'old struggle song' kill the boer (white farmer) at some of the recent gatherings of the ANC. That is why at the moment there is such emphasis put on the subject because many feel that the racial hate speech, which is against our constitution, has resulted in the murder of Eugene Terr Blanche. This matter is far more complicated than what meets the eye, there are also suggestions that this what a politically motivated killing. So please before you comment on something of this magnitude do a bit more research.

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  • 27. At 11:41am on 13 Apr 2010, Muxman wrote:

    What is the actual point of this article? Is it to state that white people in South Africa are racist or is it to find a comparison for Julius?

    To base your article on the rantings of one white complex owner is a bit naive and trying to find a comparison for a guy who failed wood work is probably even more of a time wasting project.

    Perhaps Mr Harding if you are to in future try to stir the pot maybe put a little more thought into it, your comments are far from expert and firmly portray your lack of knowledge and understanding when it comes to this country. Maybe give it a few more years before making your next attempt at headlining an article Race and Racism in South Africa.

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  • 28. At 11:44am on 13 Apr 2010, moyo wrote:

    i think andrew needs to understand the need for a long time healing for a people long time brutalized, denied, psychologically and physically abused. the pains of dark past can't be wished away just like as if nothing much really happened. you can only feel its keenest when you experience it or you were really part of it.

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  • 29. At 11:47am on 13 Apr 2010, Owura Kwadwo wrote:

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  • 30. At 11:49am on 13 Apr 2010, Barry James wrote:

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  • 31. At 11:49am on 13 Apr 2010, Rufus wrote:

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  • 32. At 11:53am on 13 Apr 2010, kabo wrote:

    south africans must face, debate and face the reality of their past. the centuries of racial oppression tht they have lived under....forgiving and forgetting does not mean burying heads in the sand. malema? that one is a disgrace. he is riled by the fact tht he missed the apartheid regime...he is almost a born-free

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  • 33. At 12:01pm on 13 Apr 2010, Sabot wrote:

    How did Andrew arrive in Jo'burg?. He met his first white man in the appartment block?. Did he leopard crawl all the way from Jo'burg international? Avoiding like the plague anyone white?.What is not recognised is that journo's that "make news" instead of reporting are a serious and constant danger to the press freedom and freedom of speech that is aabsolute must in this dangerous world. To think that there are no racists left in South Africa is delusional to consider it news worthy is tacky.

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  • 34. At 12:02pm on 13 Apr 2010, Rufus wrote:

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  • 35. At 12:04pm on 13 Apr 2010, sam875 wrote:

    I think Idi Amin is the nearest you could compare Julius Malema with. Surely, Vladimir Zhirinovsky had a better education.

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  • 36. At 12:15pm on 13 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    Owura Kwadwo: What a joke. Can you please tel me what the white people stole form your country? How old are you? And saying that all the whites should leave this country to seek fairness is just the mind set which will lead this country to its fall. Because according to you it is then okay for white people to be treated unfairly...? Maybe all the black people in Europe and the rest of the world should come to Africa to be treated fairly... oh no wait they wouldn't return because they are treated fairly no matter their color. The problem with you is that you think the world owes you something.... Lets take all the white people out of Africa and then while were at it why don't the "white racists" stop giving hand outs to Africa too. I wonder what will happen to africa then?

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  • 37. At 12:17pm on 13 Apr 2010, glosglosglos wrote:

    I don't really understand how people can misinterpret the problem within SA, it seems fairly obvious. Regardless of the promises of a 'rainbow nation' everything is still decided by race. Whilst affirmative action may well have been encouraged in an attempt to remove people from poverty, the same poverty still exists. All affirmative action has done has forced the losers of this policy out, the whites. This is what I just cannot understand, Malema and Zuma have seen whats happened to Zimbabwe when you just try to take property of the white farmers, yet they still seem to think that putting it into the hands of inexperienced black farmers is going to solve the problem. If the government continues to neglect the white minority of their country they are going to become the next Zimbabwe. The legacy of Apartheid may be painful but it won't be made any easier by essentially taking revenge and forcing the whites out. What needs to happen is for the idea of race to just be ignored and to focus on the true problem which is poverty. Start improving education, for gods sake sort out areas like the Cape Flats there is simply no excuse for it anymore, if the government truly cared about their people they wouldn't allow for it to happen. Maybe this way the white minority are allowed to keep prospering, funding the economy and therefore helping to solve the problems of poverty instead of being forced out. They may have contributed alot to the problems within SA but they can help a whole lot solving them

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  • 38. At 12:18pm on 13 Apr 2010, Bobby wrote:

    The comment from Owura Kwadwo at entry 29 speaks volumes of the ignorance that permeates throughout African (not specifically South African) societies. I suggest Owura reviews his own history and to determine who settled where, when and why; he may be surprised at the results.

    I have heard Owura's comments many times before, but would question what constitutes an African. My wife's family are 8th generation white African's. How many more generations does it take for them (in Owura's eyes) to be Africa? I would suggest they are Africans as much as every other black, white or other African. The skin choice is not important, the attitude is.

    The troubles in South Africa (Africa at large) are not really racially based, but merely manifest that way. They are; however poverty and culturally driven. The solution to that comes from good governance and strong leadership.

    As a footnote, our close family members were attacked and shot on their farm recently, one of them fatally. The perpetrators were black Africans; but is their skin colour important? The only fact that matters it that they are murderers.

    My family no longer live on the African continent… sadly.

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  • 39. At 12:19pm on 13 Apr 2010, Daniel wrote:

    South Africa needs to refrain from becoming a palisine like problem with perputual retaliation. I have studied the history of South Africa at University. Both Boars, white south African and black africans are all South Africans, I mean how far back are we supposed to go, most of east africa was populated through migration of people from south east africa (mozambique South Africa) should they be kicked out. Many countires have had brutal recent civil wars or dictators (post Franco Spain for example).

    Apartied needs to be engaged with not forgotten but both sides need to get away from their extreme wings and move towards improving standards of living for the poor (which will help other issues such as crime levels which effect everybody) and developing a country with fantastic potential. The ANC needs to move away from populism and focus on education and infrastructure.

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  • 40. At 12:20pm on 13 Apr 2010, hoody7 wrote:

    The article is just an opinion and a relevant one at that. Clearly SA is a polarising issue which ignites political and nationalistic passion. I have done business in SA for over ten years and I must say that it is so depressing to see such a glorious country with an incredible history head to the direction that it appears that it is heading in. I am significantly worried by the path the ANC is heading in and their capacity to use hatred, terror and violence against both black, white, indian and coloureds. Oddly enough, the old NP used similar tactics. I feel like the militant sections of the ANC are blaming whites, and other races, for the mistakes they have made in power. Characters like Malema are divisive and ignorant. Their intention is clearly to whip up fear of the poor, and benefit directly from that... very similar to Mugabe style politics. I am amazed that Zuma and co feel his behaviour is acceptable as the recent public telling off is nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Comments such as Owura Kwadwo just made... "If the whites in South Africa want REAL FAIRNESS .... may be they should leave south africa and go to where they came from" are ultimately blind and foolish. It refuses to recognise SA as a mutli racial society which it has been for several 100 years. There are many Blacks and Asians in Europe and I hope they do not leave suddenly just because a caucasian racist may suggest. The same should go for Africa.

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  • 41. At 12:26pm on 13 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    Oh and while were talking about these "racist whites". Isn't it funny how these racist whites regularly donate money to black homeless kids and funds and isn't it funny how you always see these racist white's adopt black homeless children and isn't it funny how these racist white's are mostly the only ones giving the black beggars on the side of the roads money.

    It's funny how there can be black only schools and we say nothing but when we have a white only school it will be racist.
    It's funny how 99 % of bafana can be black and we say nothing about it but if the springboks are not 30-60 % black its racism...
    Isn't it funny when a black man kills a white man its nothing but when a white man kills a black man its racist.

    Come on you people should wake up and smell the coffee.
    Almost all the white people I know have moved on.
    Why is the black comunity still stuck on race?

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  • 42. At 12:27pm on 13 Apr 2010, Nowhere wrote:

    I will tell you why whites are frustrated. Its been more than 16 years after apartheid where we are still reminded daily of how inhumane "we" were (we including us youth who had nothing to with it). Whites are the last to get jobs inconsiderate of competence (Affirmative action). Whites entrepreneurs who risk everything and is awarded with success has to share his success (Black Empowerment). We have to read daily of the more than 1600 farm murders since 1994 but still have to pay for the roundabout 1500 apartheid related murders in the 40 years of apartheid. We have to rely on community based and private security company's more than the police. We have to pay taxes and raising electricity and water prices while watching Carte Blanche investigating how corrupt politicians are and wasting money, how daily copper wires are stolen and how electricity is stolen without consequence because the poor see electricity as a right and not a privileged. We have to be carefull in everything we do not to step on any ones toes but we have to watch Malema being openly racist and blame the "white males" for poverty. ET was nowhere, he came back in to our minds with his murder. Most white people saw him as a joke. The worst thing of all is that apartheid overshadows all boer history. No minor knows anything about the concentration camps in the anglo-boer war. My mother tells me how my great grandfather had to use the split in a tree because the gun was to heavy for him at his age of 12 and how my grandmothers mother and brothers' bones were broken to fit into their coffins. But there is no time to mourn because I know that tomorrow's' headlines will hold only half of todays murders and rapes as its a common occurrence and not news worthy any more and I'm white so "I am to blame for everything wrong in RSA"

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  • 43. At 12:30pm on 13 Apr 2010, Andrew wrote:

    Hello Andrew, and a belated welcome to the most beautiful, socially complex, strangest and exasperating country in the world. I might be a bit biased about that though.

    In your column you have pointed to the lack of strong leadership and the power vacuum this has created which has allowed opportunists to take advantage of. Coupled to this is a loss of a moral compass in the current political leadership and for that matter that of the ruling party. I suspect this to be a symptom of a political alliance which still attempts to be all things to all people. As a result we have no clear vision or goals of the future.

    However one thing missing is the need to understand where this racism comes from. And I am am in no way condoning or justifying it, just observing. For example one element is the fear, anger and uncertainty that drives the daily lives of a great many South Africans.

    There are issues like unresolved justice and continuing injustices, a lack of equality (be that economic or political), a feeling of growing insecurity, and the inability to see or plan a future. A feeling of powerlessness. And an anger at leaders who are unable or unwilling to resolve these issues and an inability to resolve it ourselves. The growing sense of frustration, anger or despondency is palpable. And don't forget South Africa's history, the injustices are not merely generational but go back 300 years. That's a lot of historical injustice and it's become deeply ingrained in many cultural groups.

    And its impossible to simplify South Africa's complex society into a few simple sentences. We seem to have adopted as many ways as possible to differentiate ourselves. Family, clan, tribe, language, race, culture, party affiliation, political ideology, class, gender, accent, birthplace, gender, sexual orientation, religion, education, employment, wealth, diet, facial hair, football teams, choice of transport, where we live, and what we wear: I think South Africa's got them all. It's a bit sad and pathetic sometimes, and other times funny and exciting. Of course differentiation is part of identity and in itself is not a bad thing. However it becomes a problem when respect and tolerance do not accompany it. And that unfortunately seems to be a skill not enough South Africans have learned yet.

    Barry it is wrong to sweep something under the carpet just because it is an unpleasant truth revealed at an inconvenient time, we've spent years avoiding the unpleasant realities, hoping things will get better and not doing enough to resolve them.

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  • 44. At 12:43pm on 13 Apr 2010, Paul Thorney wrote:

    I think South Africa is still in it's early stages of democracy and people need a little more patience. The race issue will take a while to improve but that is understandable given the countries history.
    When the boers fought against the british it was for control of the union not freedom from Britain.
    A seperate state should not be given to the boers as this goes against the idea of unity. There has already been a homeland given called Orania and even some residents there have stated they are not moving ahead with the times.
    If the crime issue was dealt with severely then I don't believe people would feel the necessity to leave SA. I believe if the crime issue would be dealt with correctly then the progress would follow with the likes of foreign investment, increased tourism revenue, employment, infrastructure upgrades, more housing and so on. It takes hard work and commitment to make the new SA become a success.
    Songs such as s----t the boer need banning for sure. As does the flying of awb flags, old flags and singing die stem. It's called compromise. J.Malema is also not helping for sure.

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  • 45. At 1:16pm on 13 Apr 2010, kabo wrote:

    pronin is not being statistically correct....boycott south africa? thts cowardly. why should we do that instead of helping fellow humans to face and come to terms with the stark reality of trying to make a country out of a people who have over 3centuries of unequal racial relations? as a black african in botswana,i feel for my brothers the blacks of s.a,bt in the same vein i feel for the whites of south africa. these are a people who have put more to their racial diffrences than common heritage. the situation is worsened by extremists from both sides, who are hijacking a grand project to undo racial imbalance...of coz personified by the likes of malema and the late e.t (may his soul rest).being black shouldnt make one bitter

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  • 46. At 1:17pm on 13 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    Nowhere : I couldn't agree with you more. I think the thing that is the most frustrating is that the black community , mostly anc always shift the blame towards apartheid and white people... They will never ever take responsibility for anything. I don't know about you but when I was raised I was always told to own up to my own mistakes and to take the blame and punishment as a man for my own actions.

    I think the thing that is missing in this country is good personal ethics.

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  • 47. At 1:23pm on 13 Apr 2010, UKSaffa wrote:

    My issue with your article Mr. Harding is the title 'race and racism in South Africa'. This title seems to imply that the article which follows will cover this broad issue. How can someone who has only lived in South Africa for a year, who has only made contact with a minor few South African views try and claim that they could actually provide a journalistic view on ‘race and racism in South Africa’? It is articles like these which fuel any racial fires already existing. Would it not be better to write about 'solutions to the issue of race and racism in South Africa' or do your journalistic job and report on issues in an unbiased way? Terblanche's death and Malema’s song could have been unrelated incidents, but the media decided to draw a link. How much less tension would there not have been if the media didn’t decide to link these?
    Yesterday’s UK Evening Standard had a section specifically dedicated to a list of current shootings and stabbings, calling for information from the public. Were any of these called ‘racial incidents’?
    ‘Apartheid’ is a word for something that happened many years ago – the segregation rules were disgusting and a violation of human rights. What is happening now, in our beautiful land is not great but … how much worse is it really than what is currently happening in other countries with regards to race? In South London, UK for instance? SA gave racism another name – ‘Apartheid’ and this alone, I feel, has been the cause for so much of the racial follow-up since 1994. Had the media not given our racial struggle a name, it could possibly have been left in the past, incidents could possibly been dealt with as separate incidents. Unfortunately though, anything that happens in South Africa now, is put down to racism. Malema is uneducated and bias. Eugene Terblanche was a terrible man with a horrible history – why should they however be tied together and used to emphasize and advertise Racism in South Africa?
    If the media could only stop advertising SA’s issues as racial and racism and actually allow South African’s to decide their own opinions then surely, some of the people supporting Malema now in pure opposition to Terblanche would agree that he should lose his position and vice versa with regards to Terblanche.
    So, Mr. Harding, please think about what your views and opinions do to fuel this issue you apparently have such a grasp over ‘Race and Racism in South Africa’, before you write and influence this issue any more.

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  • 48. At 1:50pm on 13 Apr 2010, dune wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 49. At 1:51pm on 13 Apr 2010, ArsBlessedHouse wrote:

    Independent if what kind of race we are we have a right to respect wherever we are on this planet.

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  • 50. At 1:52pm on 13 Apr 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    I have been all over Africa particularly South Africa and now travelling around Europe. And for so many times I tried to compare the behaviour of human beings in both continent (Africa and Europe) but I still can’t get any conclusion therefore I have to guess if anyone here can help and give me idea on the burning mindset issue.

    Mr Eugene Terre'blanche‘s death again brought the attention into the mind but the right question/s didn’t be asked or explained by the British journalist. First of all, I believe that any death of anyone in any country should be looked as a normal & local issue but this is not what happened after the death of Mr Eugene Terre'blanche by the western media particularly the British media.

    Mr Eugene Terre’blanche and his misguided radicals are fighting to have their own whites state on the black land after they own nearly everything in the African country, and if you follow the western media on this issue in the last few days clearly you can see that they keep trying their best to promote the views of their whites brothers sisters who pretends to be oppressed instead of been look as oppressors. in some stages they even attempt to scare people of the world from going to the world cup.

    So my question is this: what could be the reaction in France, England or America if the Arabs in France, The Pakistanis in England or the Mexicans in the USA raises their own flags, sing anthems and demand to have their own independents in the host country? How the western media and the so-call nationalist like the BNP could respond? Does anyone think we will ever have a time when we are going to have African extremists as we do have fast growing and powerful BNPs sympathisers in all over Europe?

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  • 51. At 1:57pm on 13 Apr 2010, African Son wrote:

    There is an old South-African joke that goes like this: "What is the difference between a racist and a liberal?" The answer: "6 months in South Africa".

    I get upset by the political analysis of European journalists. I know they are trying to do their jobs, but they are here as spectators and don't understand the full magnitude of our issues. Also political correctness stops them from being completely honest.

    Take Eugene Terreblanche and Julius Malema for instance. Terreblanche has maybe 3,000 supporters. Focusing on Terreblanche is like focusing on the Millwall Supporters Club. Both really are inconsequential.

    This country is not in its present state because of what Terreblanche does or doesn't do. It is in this mess because of the non-stop systematic corruption of the ANC with its 50 million supporters. The whites of this country are being marginalised by the government in many ways; subtle yes but very effective.

    Imagine the outrage if a British firm stops a person getting a job because of the colour of their skin. Through the hated policy of Affirmative Action that is exactly what is happening here. Look up Capt. Renate Barnard for reference.

    The (rightly or wrongly) historic white economy supports this government through taxes and yet are consistently blamed for everything that goes wrong. The rural municipality I live this week announced salary increases for their (almost exclusively ANC) councillors of R132,000 to R930,000 (GBP90,000)! This while the council doesn't have a fire engine!

    Would you not get angry if this was your government? In the West you get angry if the tax is 32% or 31%. Here we get angry because our friends are murdered, our streets have sewage in and we have to bribe the police. It is a serious matter for us; our lives literally depend on it. When Labour's youth council starts yelling "Kill the Jews/Muslims/Greeks (or whatever)" then we can talk.

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  • 52. At 2:07pm on 13 Apr 2010, Martyn abrahams wrote:

    There is nothing worse than a scab that does not have time to heal but is continually picked at. Eventually it will fester, become infected and a little scab will become a big, horrible, open wound.

    That is SA in a nutshell. The powers that be pick at the sores of our beautiful country and never give it a moments respite. Whether it be the government or the ANC-run media their contribution to it's healing leaves much to be desired. And what of anti-biotics? I think the ANC swopped it for a bottle of drain cleaner.

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  • 53. At 2:12pm on 13 Apr 2010, dudzai wrote:

    Eugene Terreblanche was a vile man and Julius Malema does not help the situation. The race issue is still a problem because racism was rife in the country for over 300 years and everyone wants the wound to be healed within the short space of time. As a black educated person i have meet a lot of white south africans that complain that they are living the country because they cant find employment, but so are the blacks south africans. In discussion i have noticed the minority were happy during apartheid as they had all the good things but because they have to share now with the blacks its become a problem. Its a matter of the tables being reversed, and the pill is bitter to swallow.Its normal for people to want to revenge but its high time both races understand each other and come to one unity.

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  • 54. At 2:12pm on 13 Apr 2010, rooikat wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 55. At 2:15pm on 13 Apr 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    I have been all over Africa particularly South Africa and now travelling around Europe. And for so many times I tried to compare the behaviour of human beings in both continent (Africa and Europe) but I still can’t get any conclusion therefore I have to guess if anyone can help and give idea on the burning mindset issue.

    Mr Eugene Terre'blanche‘s death again brought the attention into the mind but the right question/s didn’t be asked or explained by the British journalist. First of all, I believe that any death of anyone in any country should be looked as a normal & local issue but this is not what happened after the death of Mr Eugene Terre'blanche by the western media particularly the British media.

    Mr Eugene Terre’blanche and his misguided radicals are fighting to have their own whites state on the black land after they own nearly everything in the African country, and if you follow the western media on this issue in the last few days clearly you can see that they keep trying their best to promote the views of their whites brothers sisters who pretends to be oppressed instead of been look as oppressors. in some stages they even attempt to scare people of the world from going to the world cup.

    So my question is this: what could be the reaction in France, England or America if the Arabs in France, The Pakistanis in England or the Mexicans in the USA raises their own flags, sing anthems and demand to have their own independents in the host country? How the western media and the so-call nationalist like the BNP could respond? Does anyone think we will ever have a time when we are going to have African extremists as we do have fast growing and powerful BNPs sympathisers in all over Europe?

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  • 56. At 2:20pm on 13 Apr 2010, ccmarco85 wrote:

    Because of Malema and his racist views, a lot of white people are becoming more racist.

    Perfect timing before the world cup!

    Corrupt political clowns can ruin anything.

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  • 57. At 2:25pm on 13 Apr 2010, Travis Smithard wrote:

    Daniel, if you had studied the history of South Africa at University then you would know we are called Boers not boars... But anyway happy studying and maybe come down to our country sometime that is the only way to truly understand what is going on... oh ja and try stay for longer than just a year there is simply far to much to learn... I do believe though that you have got exactly the right attitude that this country needs!

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  • 58. At 2:56pm on 13 Apr 2010, dune wrote:

    @UKSaffa - Mr. Harding seems to know much more than you....and let me tell you Mr. Harding is spot on!

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  • 59. At 2:59pm on 13 Apr 2010, dune wrote:

    @ Mze-djima - Its long not the AWB that want independance but the majority of Afrikaners. The majority do not share the AWB idea of an homeland but we believe in an area where out people,culture and language are protected?

    You call that racist? Well then you have to call the Tibetans, Aborigines, American Indians and Pygmies racist too as they, including the Afrikaners belong to the UNPO.ORG! Go and look it up and get educated as what some would call 'racist' some of us minorities the world over call our RIGHT!

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  • 60. At 3:01pm on 13 Apr 2010, dune wrote:


    Please follow this blog about Afrikaans translated news reports on how bad the situation is:

    http://censorbugbear-reports.blogspot.com

    This blog will keep you updated on things you will not see in government sponsored main stream media.


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  • 61. At 3:08pm on 13 Apr 2010, Hans Olaf wrote:

    The simple and obvious solution is to give Afrikaners their own state. The racists will be happy because they no longer have to live next to the race they dislike, and the anti-racists will be happy because they no longer have to live next to racists. But most importantly, Afrikaners who are simply sick of, for lack of a better term, black africa(I don't mean blacks as a race, I mean the general attitude and corruption that plagues the area - it's hard to put into words, "That's Africa!"), will finally be able to live on their own.

    Or are white Afrikaners not entitled to their own state simply because they're white?

    I suspect the real reason is that the ANC knows South Africa's collapse would happen that much faster without whites around to do all of their work. They will also no longer be able to blame their shortcomings on whites(actually nevermind, Mugabe still does that - and he's killed all the whites in his country). Let Malema seize all the farms, and see what happens. South Africa became a net importer of food as of last year, it's already going to down the same road as Rhodesia(whoops, that would be Zimbabwe now) only slower.

    Wanting a land for your people isn't racist. Only a liar of the highest order would say the end of apartheid has been anything but disastrous for Afrikaners. Over 3,000 dead farmers(to say nothing of whites in general) dead in less than two decades(that's 1 in 40) and no one seems to care...

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  • 62. At 3:09pm on 13 Apr 2010, Tools_ink wrote:

    while debating with my Colleague on Malema wrong or right, I pointed out to him that " I am for the Truth ... irrespective of who says it". I still maintain BBC Fisher was insensitive to satte to Malema that he also stays in Sandton in the same breadth as the MDC. Malema is not a Zimbabwean and has every right to stay anywhere in the Country. It does sound like Mr Fisher expects Malema to stay in the townships "where all Blacks belong".

    On ET, the Belief System in Ventersdorp and its product of fear on the helpless farmworker is unhealthy and needs to be checked, not by force but by debate. Send the missionaries over there. There are Souls being lost to deception. And send also Motivators to encourage the farm-worker so he/she can enjoy the fruits of the is NEw Country.

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  • 63. At 3:34pm on 13 Apr 2010, Martyn abrahams wrote:

    @Dudzai
    As an educated white person I have to say that I agree with your analysis in the beginning and at the end. In between you don't know what you saying.
    Whites are concerned because what is commonly dubbed a normal society is far from it. Crime, corruption etc, etc is rife.
    Cities has become sprawling slums.
    My mother can't even walk around her garden out of fear of getting attacked, she's been attacked 3 times.
    The government is incapable of dealing with individuals who steal from the coffers and who are involved in corruption, bribery and theft.
    All of this may be normal where you live but in a functioning society it could not be further from the truth.
    Sorry if us whites find it a little unacceptable.

    As for whites bemoaning the job situation, they are amongst the only ones paying taxes! Taxes that keep the infrastructure from falling apart! Jobs can't be filled because of the AA and BEE compliances- jobs lying open with no-one to fill them.
    It's been 16 years since the end of apartheid, if the imbalances of job opportunity for black as well as white are not met they never going to be met. This then becomes a system which justifies imbalance and practices reverse racism. The sense of entitlement always amazes me, hard work, equality and education are the bearers of a robust economy- something still to be learned about by the masses....the joys of the country under the ANC and delusional economical entitlement.

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  • 64. At 3:48pm on 13 Apr 2010, Drave Kalal wrote:

    The whites most certainly are responsible for the economy of SA. However, that does not mean that their efforts stand—in large part—in contrast to the efforts of blacks. Albeit it should be understood that corruption has destroyed whatever attempts that the blacks have put forth in governing SA. In retrospect, however, the whites—even after defeating the British in the Boer War—built and sustained a country (as beautiful as it is) not for both whites and blacks, but for whites only. In light of the hard work of generations of whites they most assuredly are entitled to enjoy in fruits of their labor. However, such entitlement is moot if actions taken prior to their toiling would preclude them—legally—from justly claiming ownership to anything built in SA. Take for instance that a man walks into your house—a building that is yours by right, deed etc—and he then relegates you to the basement, while he takes control of the majority of the space. Let’s say that the building was a mud hut in the beginning, but now—due to the encroacher’s hard work—it is a marble floored mansion. Does it really matter that the thief—there isn’t any other word to define the man—worked hard to build a beautiful house? Absolutely not, for after all one cannot claim rightful ownership to something that was stolen. However, history seems to suggest the contrary (take the USA, Australia for instance). The whites cannot rightly claim that SA is their homeland any more than Nigerians can claim England as theirs. Their forefathers are white Europeans; there is a date and time that tells of their arrival in the foreign lands of SA. In any case I am not suggesting that SA is now for blacks only. Quite the contrary, for there should be equality in sharing and building that great nation. However, we must not disregard the feelings of pain and hatred towards a people who came and stole a land from its prior owners. Tis but human nature to resent one’s persecutor (no matter how far removed, generations-wise). It’s been more than a century since the blacks in the USA were liberated from chains, yet tension is still rife today. It will take more than two decades for SA to come to grips with peace, love and sharing.
     

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  • 65. At 3:51pm on 13 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    Mr Harding until you are prepared to trade your passport and citizenship and that of your immediate family for South African citizenship and invest all your assets - job, house, cash, pension etc - in South Africa I would be very circumspect before putting pen to paper. It is easy to have an opinion when you can run to your embassy and be on the first plane out the country! There has been way too much braying from across the oceans as they - Britain, The USA, Australia and Canada to name a few, pick the young, skilled and moneyed from Africa and deny the unwanted entry into their countries!

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  • 66. At 4:22pm on 13 Apr 2010, ArsBlessedHouse wrote:

    @ dune Thanks, I've forward the thread around the globe.

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  • 67. At 4:32pm on 13 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    I think the fact that apartheid is no longer is a wonderful thing. It should never have been implemented in the first place. I do however also think that there is no point in replacing one racist corrupt government with a worse one.

    The ANC are INCAPABLE of running South Africa.

    As terrible as apartheid was, the infrustructure worked, the streets were infinitly safer. Before you fling your hands up in the air protest. Think about the fact that politicians like Julias Malema are not held accountable of their actions. They are allowed to blunder along cause a wake of anger and hatered. While all the while skimming the fat off South Africa while driving the latest Range Rover port and living in the most exclusive suburbs of Joburg while their electorate are below the bread line living like rats in townships without proper houseing and basic services. Julias and Zuma shoudl be driving VW's not Mercs. Its obscene. For a politican party that wanted so badly to right the wrongs of the past they have so far only made the most chaotic mess of the future and cling so desperatly to the past as the only way of keeping votes at the polls is to whip them up into a racist fenzy with songs like ' Shoot the boet' and that other stupid machine gun song.

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  • 68. At 4:45pm on 13 Apr 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    Mr AFRICAN SON, I saw many commentators on the thread with the same kind of express and pretend concerns; not surprise especially if it comes from such suspected pretend name. Here I have to stress that I have lived in South Africa and travelled all over the country, and out of South Africa I have been in the UK, Swiss, Turkey, South Korea and France and Italy. I have never seen any good country in those countries like South Africa.

    Roads, airports shopping-malls are much better and becoming better and better everyday. I see well maintained roads, more and valuable cars in the roads of South Africa than in France & UK. Up to now the constitution of South Africa which was written and well protects by the Africans is on the top list of the best constitutions in the world. The rights and empowerment of women rank very high in South Africa far than any of the above mentioned countries.

    However, you need to be aware and fair of two things; the point of knowing that until 16 years ago over 85% of the South African population (mainly Africans) hade nothing, nor education, nor wealth and nor even a citizenship card, they were made to be only slaves of the 13% whites & 2% Indians.

    The African Government which came into power for 16 years had & still have the duty and moral obligation to provide 100% of the needs of the 85% of the country’s nearly 50 million Africans, of course also to provide to the 15% who previously had all privileges and this brings me to my second point everyone shall be aware of in the reality of South Africa.

    Whites South Africans who had all opportunities of getting whatever education they want and that automatically guarantee them any amount of wealth and any number of slaves which also I can call it a “free labourer”.

    Now that opportunities needs to be given to all citizens black or whites which mean automatically the whites kinghood have to be reduce, that automatically and psychologically have to turn whites to be very furious and threaten because the ex-kings and superior nation of the apartheid South Africa have to share everything with their ex-4th class countrymen.

    That is why whites run to the media particularly the western media to cures the Africans whom because of their raise deprived the superior nation everything, and tarnish the African Government and the South African image all over the world. The only thing those ex-kings are praying for is to see a devastate South Africa and civil war like how whites did in any country they had been kicked out in Africa(you can get a hint on how generally whites feels & would like by looking at the beginning part of this article of Mr Andrew Harding). I will ask people to do two things; first look at all of those who are behind the badmouthing South Africa and the second thing is for you to visit South Africa and judge for yourself.

    In France look at even the kinds of cell phone people are using and the cars the public drive and then go to South Africa and be the witness. There are people who would like and enjoy keep the people of the world blinds. Don’t be carryout and think that because it’s an African country then it must be like the bush in the DRC Congo and Somalia.

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  • 69. At 5:00pm on 13 Apr 2010, ChrisZA wrote:

    The tragedy of South Africa.

    A country with everything going for it - should really be the paradise of the world - yet it always seems one step from disaster.

    When was South Africa's finest hour. Speaking as a white South African I say it was around the time at the start of the Rainbow nation when we had a leader who was prepared to sacrifice his own even ' righteous ' demands for retribution and instead chose to do what was best for the future of the country and avoid the blood bath. Mandela won praise and admiration the world wide and not to mention amoung most white South Africans because of his reconciliatory approach. For a while under him the future was looking rosy because there was a realisation that the greater good of the country going forwards lay not in taking away from and chasing away the white skilled , 'tax paying' workforce but using them to help grow the country and lift everyone out of poverty and at the same time starting the proccess of upliftment and skills handover.

    About mid-way throught Mbeki's rule it all started to go wrong and race became the biggest issue again in South Africa and now those in leadership of the country have absolutely no inkling for what is in the best interests going forward - they are an undisciplined , immoral , narrow-minded, greedy and vengfull bunch who are playing captain on a ship that is slowly but surely sinking. Mandela showed us that it is possible to work together ( I do not wish to glorify him as he made mistakes too )but he was most likely the only president ( together with De Klerk) who actually put the good of everyone before his and his races' narrow interests.
    We need a quality president in this mould if we are to stand any sort of a chance in SA. I don't care what race he comes from - just as long as he is someone who will put the long term interests of the country first. If someone like Malema became president it is clear to see that in less than 1 year the Republic of South Africa would become quickly flushed down the toilet and would contain millions of mostly black miserable and starving people who would long for the days of 'oppression ' when at least they had food to eat.

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  • 70. At 5:03pm on 13 Apr 2010, PGallagher wrote:

    The ANC supports Mugabe and Zanu-PF whose Black Empowerment policy is wanting 51% controlling shares! Mind blowing! My cousins (look up history) the major shareholders who founded a pragmatic, engineering based, First World, Environmentally friendly, International business [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]sold 25.1% of their shares to comply with SA's BEE policies.

    They are the biggest suppliers of heating fuels to industry (start up Eskom etc.) and Shipping (marine fuels). South Africa needs people like my cousins. You'd be mad to drive them away. What a travesty. President Zuma needs to answer some hard questions about where the buck stops in the ANC and also explain where their comrades in Zanu-PF are taking the people of Southern Africa. Why doesn't he force Mugabe to stick to his word and fulfil the GPA as was agreed?

    If they kill the Golden Goose that lays the Golden Eggs, they'll never live it down.

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  • 71. At 5:13pm on 13 Apr 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @Dune: to be grateful is the best character a human shall try. For the hundreds years you were in power you abuse the authority you had, you destroy the languages and cultures of those who were next to you. You enforced your language and culture on them, you did that for so long; and now the Africans come to power and gave recognition and value to everyone’s culture and languages.

    Now all over the world you are preaching democracy, democracy, democracy; in democracy you say “majority rule the minority” however, the time you were ruiling all over Africa particularly South Africa & zim; you never apply anything call democracy, and you never had anything call human right, nor freedom of speech etc. you break your rules any time just make what can suit you.

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  • 72. At 5:18pm on 13 Apr 2010, Edwin Schrodinger wrote:

    According to Andrew Harding, Terreblanche, who never threatened to kill anyone was 'vile.' but a black racist like 'Malema' who sings about 'killing the Boer' is only 'a clown.' Oh right. Oh yes, and South Africa's economy is in a mess because of the 'warped legacy of apartheid.' 15 years ago. Oh right.

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  • 73. At 5:32pm on 13 Apr 2010, Elaine Bracco wrote:

    "I moved to South Africa just over a year ago, and the very first white man I met - the gregarious owner of a serviced-apartment complex in Johannesburg - casually offered me his thoughts about the 'baboons' who would eventually wreck this 'magical country.'
    Apartheid is still fairly fresh in its grave and it will surely take another generation or more to reverse its viciously warped economic legacies."

    Apartheid South Africa developed an economy larger than rest of Africa combined. Blacks from 'free' black-ruled African countries migrated in huge numbers to work for white-run industries and farms in South Africa even--or especially--during apartheid.
    Within a generation the achievements of whites may well be wiped out as in Zimbabwe under Mugabe. The problem is not the legacy of apartheid but its end and replacement by black rule.

    Btw, the BBC comments policy is politically correct, demanding that commentators politcally agree with the Orwellian logic which has destroyed whatever remains of British democracy.

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  • 74. At 5:59pm on 13 Apr 2010, Remi jibowu wrote:

    South Africa has a lot to learn from the Americans in handling the volatility of race related differences. The Americans appear to have done so by institutionalising rights and equality, whilst highlighting capability on all sides. The risk to this continent of failure in South Africa is too great to be taken lightly; the whites have contributed significantly to what the rest of us in (and outside) Africa find appealing about South Africa, the Blacks should learn to build on those foundations in a mutually enabling way.

    Oddities like Terreblanche are present in every society, all South AFricans should focus on the man and not his message.

    Live and let live.

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  • 75. At 6:00pm on 13 Apr 2010, Dr Kay wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 76. At 6:03pm on 13 Apr 2010, PGallagher wrote:

    Sorry the url for ffs Refiners is:
    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
    Look under history for the BBEE

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  • 77. At 6:46pm on 13 Apr 2010, Matthew wrote:

    Andrew, a well considered and ... cautious ... approach - the only way to actually approach the very thorny issue of race in South Africa.

    My parents moved over there from the UK when I was eight and I spent over 25 years living in Johannesburg. I've since returned to the UK.

    What struck me the most about the issue of race in South Africa was just how galvanising it was - very little flexibility in people's opinion on all sides of the race 'divide'

    It isn't just about black and white.
    Racial tension exists between all the racial groupings, including the various black ethnic/cultural groups.

    After the end of Apartheid, many whites remained in denial for years. It's now clear to all but the most die-hard 'old school' right wingers, that there will be no turning back.

    "Adapt or die" is effectively the position the white people of South Africa found themselves in.

    Unfortunately, what became all to clear once the barriers were down, is just how corrupt and crime ridden the country was.
    The crime that black communities had faced for decades slowly spilled out into the white areas.

    It became very clear just how privileged the white people were, how far from reality they had drifted.

    AIDS played a massive part in producing a lost generation - a generation of youth without role models, youth that felt nothing for the rights of others. "If you ain't got nothing, you ain't got nothing to lose."

    Some white South Africans will tell you it's all gone to pot since the 'blacks' took power. What they don't want to understand is that for the majority of the population of South Africa, it was intolerable when whites were in power.

    It was a fake utopia, always destined to fail.

    South Africa continues to face immense problems, but perhaps this is the appeal - it has the feeling of youth, danger, anything is possible.

    It's the wild west.

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  • 78. At 6:50pm on 13 Apr 2010, Wessex spanner monkey wrote:

    Racial tensions in post-apartied SA have been reignited by the current ruling elite partly because they're failing to deliver economically. It's a common diversionary tactic - there's nothing like blaming the 'outsiders' when things aren't going too well on the domestic economic front. It shifts the blame and clouds the real issue (i.e. the Government's rubbish and needs replacing). This happens all over the world when Governments fail to deliver and people start to express discontent about it. Racism should have no place in the modern world but I detect it quite clearly at high level in the current regime. Be very careful SA, don't be fooled or you'll end up just like Zimbabwe.

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  • 79. At 7:02pm on 13 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    Mze-djimba, posts 68 & 71. It is mind boggling to read your views. Slavery, free labour come on, by a very few in the 17th century well before any influx of whites into Africa in the 19th century. Keep in mind that there will always be abuse as PEOPLE are capable of evil. Your excuses for blacks lack of development are weak and to blame whites childish. Whites have a better education mainly because it is their culture, the system works for them because it is their system, plain and simple! To say whites could have been more sympathetic toward blacks is one thing, to blame them for all your hangups is ridiculous. Show me where the whites had a franchise on science, why didn't Africa invent electricity say, in the 15th century, seeing as they want it so badly now? IF your arguments were true then why hasn't for example, Zimbabwe, sorted itself out with all the help in the world, considering that "the whites" did better with the entire world against them?
    Problem is it's polically correct and oh so easy to blame whites for your short comings, but in the end it'll just show you up as you'll run out of excuses. So wise up, stop travelling and do something worthwhile in SA. Of course I haven't touched on why blacks choose to go and live where whites are the majority!!

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  • 80. At 7:27pm on 13 Apr 2010, janniee wrote:

    Are BBC part of illuminati?

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  • 81. At 7:30pm on 13 Apr 2010, janniee wrote:

    yes they are!

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  • 82. At 7:31pm on 13 Apr 2010, Ndabe wrote:

    "Does anyone have any better comparisons?" Yes.. Hitler..
    Julius Malema is a full on racists and is proud of it.Not only is he corrupting the heath with falls allegations in order to meet his own ends, he is generating pure unnecessary hate-rid among our black communities. He gives a bad name to all black people in SA, who believes in equality.

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  • 83. At 7:31pm on 13 Apr 2010, janniee wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 84. At 7:36pm on 13 Apr 2010, Gabrielus wrote:

    Dr Kay,

    Spot on, Dr Kay, spot on. "The white man" delusion It's quite baffling, Isn't it.

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  • 85. At 7:39pm on 13 Apr 2010, Norman Conquest wrote:

    @ 75 -- what's that? A new theory?

    Africa was so named after several peoples who dwelt in North Africa near Carthage. Their name is usually connected with Phoenician "afar", meaning "dust", but a 1981 theory has asserted that it stems from a Berber word "ifri", "oifri" or Ifran meaning "cave". there are also other theories.

    BTW, the Latin for black is actually "niger", believe it or not

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  • 86. At 8:18pm on 13 Apr 2010, muffit007 wrote:

    Julius Malema is like a virus that are slowly but surely spreading his stupidy to the youth in South Africa. at the author: Your blog is great but wait a minute mate... I live in Europe because I could not find a job after I finished top in my class 4 years running because I am: and I quote "just too white". I hate the fact that racism is always pointed towards the whites in South Africa...

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  • 87. At 8:30pm on 13 Apr 2010, MOHI wrote:

    It is lack of moral values that is creating the color divide. Once everyone realises that color is given by God and we have no choice things will be easier. It is economic disparity we have to concentrate on changing by reducing the gap between the haves and have nots. Rest will fall in line.

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  • 88. At 8:52pm on 13 Apr 2010, Alastair Farrugia wrote:

    There have been a few comments saying that ET "looked after his workers with a degree of respect that had many of them admiring him" and "never threatened to kill anyone". Andrew Harding's article cites a piece by Andile Mngxitama. which says that ET and his AWB party had a reign of terror in Ventersdorp even after apartheid ended in 1994. Mgnxitama says that the black mayor Kabelo ­Oupakie Mashi who tried to stop the AWB intimidation in 1997 was himself abducted and murdered. "Witnesses were openly intimidated and the murder remains unsolved."

    ET was not just an outspoken man - he was convicted of the attempted murder of a black security guard in 1996, and his party actually murdered the mayor of Ventersdorp a couple of years later.

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  • 89. At 8:56pm on 13 Apr 2010, maria wrote:

    Dear Andrew,
    Thank-you for posting this article - the comments are worth reading. It is a pity that you get to be the ´official´ reporter, since obviously the only comments you can provide are from a colonial perspective. You are white, and have never lived in Southern Africa long enough... you carry your luggage from experience in Russia - with irrelevant comparisons. And obviously you are not honest.
    In Africa there is no middle ground. Either you join the AWB in their quest for land, or you move to another continent. Those that stay are constantly jeopardizing their lives, and those of their children. My heart goes out to them!

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  • 90. At 9:06pm on 13 Apr 2010, Noel Luyt wrote:

    God bless Afrika, she surley needs your blessings.
    Welcome Mr Harding to a twisted land. A land blessed with the highest murder rate in the world, a Traffic accident death rate that is staggering, the land where bribery and corruption rules. (AS in most African countries). Committ a crime no problem, the docket can be made to disappear. Have you reported that back to your readers yet? Please advise them that it will not be a white man you will have to pay the bribe to because white people do not work for the civil service any more. Most jobs in the civil service are allocated to the card carriers of the ruling party
    Please inform them that there is such a thing called racial discrimination entrentrenched in the statute. Just like in Israel where Palastinians are discriminated against, exactly the same laws apply in South Afrika. Certain races are discriminated against.
    Please also check, whilst you are on your breif stay, in your secure accomodation, with 24 hour armed response security gaurds, with the receiver of revinue as to who is the major (race) contributer of taxes to the fiscal system. Do sum Sums with the population and come with an answer as to who is supporting who. Divide this by the population who receive free everthing from the taxpayer and then square this by the financial burden that these taxpayers have to sustain by being retaxed again just to finace their local municipalities.(see what cars the mayor drives for a small village)
    Mr Harding,here is a challenge for you, lets see if you are a man or a mouse. Throw away all that medical aid that the BBC veiwers are paying for and volunteer to be taken to a Government hospital in case you have a medical problem during your short stay here.
    I throw down the gaunlet Sir.
    I also challenge you to walk around any of our crime ridden townships, on your own at 02.00 in the morning. Lets make it Nyanga(CT),Umlazi(KZN),and another of your choice. No bodygaurds, no firearm just you and your camera and notebook.
    I throw my second gaunltet down Sir.
    Now after you have survived either the first or the second challenge i challenge you to get any reaction from a government official ( now remember you cant throw BBC cards around), you are an ordinary member of the public that public servants are supposed to seve dilligantly. This is a swear word in Afrika as the norm is that the civialns are supposed to service the servants.

    All i can say Mr Harding is that you are still wet behind the ears as to the goings on of Afrika.IE did you know Mr Irvin Khoza was a man with a criminal record and his wealth was obtained by devious means.

    Just do a WIKI search on Mr Khoza and you will see he the Mr underworld of South Afrika.

    My challenges stand Sir.
    Get out there and do them or else you are not a man.
    Hopefully will be reading about them soon as you acomplish them and then perhaps we old Pale skinned Afrikans can say that the soutpiel is beginning to understand the madness of the land.(Please look up the definition of soutpiel Sir)

    Only when your Father has been mudered, Your mother been burnt with an iron, your two sisters gang raped, Then you shot the two bastards through their heads in self defence will you ever understand the meaning of Horror Sir.

    Live in South Afrika long enough and you will have to deal with it.
    The challenge is open Sir
    Lets see how you deal with the real South Afrika away from your security protected apartment.
    Ps dont forget to add into your history of your despatches to the motherland that the Southern tip of Afrika was actaully inhabted by a race called the Xhoi who where annailated by the Bantu invading from the North and by a warlike tribe of settlers to the South. That is the real history.
    The white colonialists history books admitted that they killed the Xhoi to take over their land.
    What do the bantu history books say?
    Welcome to a land that you cant answer the questions to Sir yet you write back to your uneducated masses in your home land as if you have landed and conquered and whithin 1 year you know the the answers.
    Take up my challenges and lets here your opinion in 6 months.
    Thanks,
    Noel Luyt.

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  • 91. At 9:20pm on 13 Apr 2010, Den Greenhow wrote:

    Today on the BBC site there is a front page article about amusing parodys of a German film about Hitler on Youtube. I looked some up and there is one where Hitler learns that the AWB have called off their race war. I emailed this to a friend in Cape Town. However I felt quite embarassed having done this as the clip is so near the mark and less funny the more you look at it. Its actually quite upsetting. It made me remember that Mugabe sports a similar mustache and with his influence on other Southern African politicians still quite evident in an ambivalent way and the Terrablanche murder fresh in everyones mind I think South Africa probably needs prayers more than humour, and humour only if humour is possible. My father was raised on a farm in Zimbabwe and we have heard from his childhood friends how hard things have been there for everyone. Lets hope the wortld cup lifts the spirits of South Africans to keep the spirit of Mandela, that modern-day angel of hope.

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  • 92. At 9:26pm on 13 Apr 2010, Travis Smithard wrote:

    Drave Kalal at entry 64, you cannot be serious...

    If you are truly saying that only the whites in South Africa or even Southern AFrica are responsible for 'stealing' land from another race/tribe/creed then you really should open up any history book.

    For millenia different peoples around the globe have invaded conquered and settled foreign lands and yes there are also dates and times for those insertions. So to say that colonisation is purely a white cause for gain is utter rubbish.

    The current blacks living in South Africa at this very moment are themselves foreign invaders as the San peoples were the original inhabitants of Southern Africa, the question is how far back does one go to justify who is the victim and who is the conquerer....the answer is you cant, South Africa needs a positive and direct president who doesnt just sit on his hands while someone from his party praises Robert Mugabe's land reform policy. It needs a president who doesnt concentrate on racial differences, rather on upliftment of the poor and security for the nations citizens.

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  • 93. At 9:26pm on 13 Apr 2010, cirvine11 wrote:

    I find it interesting that nobody wants to talk about the massive pink elephant in the room-lack of wealth and land redistribution. Whites STILL hold a vast majority of both wealth and land despite being a minority. Unless this situation is made right-and soon-S.Africa may become unstable.

    Democracy in S.Africa is not an end unto itself. Unless the poverty rates of the majority vs the wealth on the minority are addessed, democracy will be seen as a method of maintaining the apartied status quo. Democracy itself may be in danger unless this happens.

    This question of equity is not to be confused with economic efficiency or even standard economic school wisdom. Rather, this is about justice... pure and simple. There cannot be a unified S.Africa unless the inequities of the past are made right and ALL S.Africans strive towards a more prosperous future together. Yes, that may mean the entire nation becomes poorer. BUT a unified S.Africa is the only way to move ahead.

    There are two methods of accomplshing this; 1) The Easy Way = realocation of wealth through taxation and redistribution of land through emminent domain. OR 2) The Hard Way = wait for an uprising that destroyes democracy, puts a Mugabe like radical in power and leads to punitive methods and much violence.

    Finally, many White S.African's are moving to Europe and the Americas. That is their right. However, the $$$ needs to stay. That should be enforced strictly.

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  • 94. At 9:31pm on 13 Apr 2010, bristol friends wrote:

    The one thing that Mr Harding seems to be ignoring is the black on black conflict in SOuth Africa, including the attacks on foreign black people. The problems are much more than colour based.

    A big problem that is found throughout Africa, is the mentality of trying to get a piece of the pie, getting what someone else has instead of focussing on how can we make the pie BIGGER, not just try take an existing piece. This mentality is the downfall of African countries.

    Come on South Africans 0 get your act together and build a country together, make the PIE BIGGER, not try see what piece you can get. THe goverment has big corruption issues - it like the MP's are there for individual gain rather than the countries future.

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  • 95. At 9:34pm on 13 Apr 2010, specialoffering wrote:

    Unfortunately, South Africa will not take a page out of United States history to learn a hard lesson, people in poverty are not free, content nor peaceful. Do not continue to make the necessary changes "with all deliberate speed" which is a fancy way of saying we are in reality not going to change a thing. Or the next rallying cry to be heard will be,"Burn Baby Burn" The cry that fell across the States in the 1960's, 1990's, and periodically since the year 2000. Change must take place to move forward and for those of you Afrikaners who can have a homeland in Europe, go there if you don't want to be a part of the New South Africa or die with the Old South Africa.

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  • 96. At 9:58pm on 13 Apr 2010, jim wrote:

    Don't Touch me on my studio!!!!

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  • 97. At 10:00pm on 13 Apr 2010, Noel Luyt wrote:

    Mr Harding Sir
    In your brief stay in South Afrika could you please,
    Please organgize an interview with the hounarable Mr Malema and ask him what he thinks about his esteemed Comrade Mr Mugabe's actions when he sanctionted his 5th Brigade to go into Matabeleland and exterminate 20,000 persons who where known to be anti Mugabe supporters.
    Whilst you are doing this interview you could also ask him about what he thinks of Hounarable Comrade Roberts Efectt of clearing his slums around Harare of his opossition supporters.

    Two simple Questions.
    Two simple answers required.
    Lets see if you are a man or a mouse Sir. I have no more guanlets to slap you with etc. Do your job now and report the truth back to the uneducated masses in the homeland.
    Noel Luyt

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  • 98. At 10:14pm on 13 Apr 2010, eenblanke wrote:

    So, what is the point of this article? if you are trying to find some kind of a solution, remedy, a harmonious resolution to SA crisis,( and if you do not think it is one, you need to wake up,) I suggest giving up because there is not going to be one. I am a pessimist in general but when it comes to Africa it's just "forget about it". As a mathematician I can testify that some problems simply have 0 solutions, some infinite number and as far as this problem ,IMHO the Devil himself will break a leg if he tries to walk through it!

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  • 99. At 10:17pm on 13 Apr 2010, ajala wrote:

    Personally I am becoming fed up with the constant, spiteful railings of many white South Africans on the supposed failings of black majority rule in the country. This is the new racism prevalent amongst the Afrikaner educated elite replacing the crude now passé Apartheid version – the not so subtle insinuation that black majority rule has failed because, well, they never had it in them did they.

    But who was white rule a success for? The crushing black majority or the white minority whose privileges were created by its enslavement. People talk of the whites building the country as if the blacks were sitting on their backsides drinking gin while the resourceful whites were breaking their backs doing all the heavy lifting. May I hasten to remind people that the ‘success’ of the apartheid economy, its competitiveness was driven by the application of cheap black labour, held down by Apartheid laws, to the mines, farms and factories of the Boer elite. White workers doing exactly the same jobs as blacks were paid six times their wages to buy their loyalty, and their jackboot on the necks of the black people.

    It is sad that 3000 whites have been killed during the 20 years apartheid ended, however they were killed by criminals not the ANC government. Over 600 children were killed in six weeks in Soweto under the old regime, on the orders of Government ministers – all of whom are now enjoying sunny retirement by the beaches of Durban and Capetown with not a visa ban in sight. These are the same people who now bleat about black township violence.

    Terre Blanche was jailed for 2 years for almost beating a black man to death – people in Europe and America are jailed for more for applying less violence to animals. How many outraged white South Africans went on websites and blogs around the worlds condemning that ludicurous sentence

    Again it is true that unfortunately rape, but not only against whites is now all too prevalent in the country. But rape has always been part of the fabric of South Africa, but before liberation when black maids, nannies and house helps were routinely violated by their white masters it was not called rape, because it was not a crime then – so it never entered the record books although it was branded in the memories of the victims for life. Crimes are not only those documented by the statisticians

    A large part of the violence in South Africa post independence has been caused by the wrong headed ANC policy of blanket forgiveness for all the murderous crimes carried out by the leaders and middle ranking war criminals, torturers and genocidial thugs of apartheid. They were bullied into this policy by western leaders and commentators, without the victims ever being consulted. They were denied real justice, while their leaders were declared saints for forgiving crimes that no westerner would have contemplated forgiving if they had been committed by blacks against whites. Whenever that happens the cry is always for justice, when whites or westerners are the villains and blacks the victims – we talk of truth and reconciliation.

    For their to be peace in that land, political, legal and social justice for the black majority needs to be addressed

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  • 100. At 10:23pm on 13 Apr 2010, eenblanke wrote:

    Hi Mr. Harding

    I just wanted to wish you all the best and stay safe, especially in JHB. Being a journalist will not protect you and things are going to get really ugly in SA for folks with our skin color. Sterkte bly!

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  • 101. At 10:25pm on 13 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    50. Mzi-Djimba "So my question is this: what could be the reaction in France, England or America if the Arabs in France, The Pakistanis in England or the Mexicans in the USA raises their own flags, sing anthems and demand to have their own independents in the host country?"

    In Israel a minority group, "Palestinians", do just that with much support from around the world! The world's prime double standard!

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  • 102. At 10:26pm on 13 Apr 2010, atonienne wrote:

    I've spent a little time in South Africa over the past three years, and my first reaction to Harding's article was 'if I could write, this is what I would say'. It is not uncommon to hear about "baboons", in fact, I recall that at some point in the past couple of years, it was a part of the defense of a (white) farmer who shot a black man, that the farmer mistook the man for a "baboon". It is also clear that South Africa as a non-apartheid state is still very young. Incredible racial discrimination is still most adults' experience. It will take a generation or two to let that go (if people have the patience to let that time pass).

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  • 103. At 10:26pm on 13 Apr 2010, Noel Luyt wrote:

    Travis
    I agree.the problem now with the current leadership is that money rules their head instead of being for the people. Unfortuanatly if you read history(as you do) this is not going to happen, You Know whats going to happen dont you and its frightening.Its the story of Afrika. For your Benifit MR harding(lived there 1 year).Us old africans (we are not classed Africans did you know that?)( Check your average SA person ID and he has a classification number as to what race he belongs) can actually read the history and the future of this place more preditibally than you.
    SO Mr Harding,

    If according to the constitution of South Africa, Which i am sure an educated man like like you must have studied

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  • 104. At 10:44pm on 13 Apr 2010, Stu wrote:

    This is a superb article for a tricky subject. the links are brillliant

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  • 105. At 10:49pm on 13 Apr 2010, Margaret wrote:

    It is interesting how this article on race relations invokes such strong emotions. Firstly the most important thing is to talk about the issue and that way extremists like Malema and Terreblanche will not have a platform. Secondly I believe that the ordinary man on the street is not really racist it is the leaders who create the racism. Remember the golden rule is ''divide and rule'' and believe me these leaders are not silly. I would not be surprised if Malema has the full backing of ANC.

    Interesting i have noted a few comments on Zim and similarities to SA. The one thing people forget is that when Zim had issues we had a literacy rate of over 95%. unfortunately SA is not in the same position. The true beneficaries of AA and BEE are the foreigners.since SA has not invested in educating their people to be qualifed for the jobs. In my opinion SA is just a bigger time bomb than Zim. Go back and look at the comments in the 80s about Zim. They were as favourable as SA but look where we are.

    I think South Africans (black& white)should take a step back, take a good look and unite to build or else the foreigners will do it for them.

    I do agree with the comments that sometimes Africans complain and blame others for their problems. I believe we need to get over the past.It happened and that will never change. In the same breath i would say people need to realise some of the issues are a result of the past.

    PS:black female from Zim

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  • 106. At 10:49pm on 13 Apr 2010, Noel Luyt wrote:

    Good day sir
    The dicrimination is totally legal. You where born with a white pigmentation you have laws applied against you.THE QUESTION I WANT TO ASK IS HOW WHITE OR HOW BLACK DO YOU HAVE TO BE IN ORDER to win any goverment contract5.

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  • 107. At 10:53pm on 13 Apr 2010, PLouw wrote:

    To wish away racism in South Africa is like wishing away the English Channel - it is not going to happen! Apartheid has been replaced by an equally vile form of racism practiced by the ANC and its cohorts.Whereas apartheid has,and still is, rightfully so,been critiscised by the most of the civilised world the hypocrisy of a deafening silence about the way the ANC led government conducts itself is astounding.
    Eugene Terreblanche was a terrible man and we are richer because of his demise, but his murder, for whatever reason, is deplorable. He was not the voice of the average Afrikaner and he was equally despised by many fellow Afrikaners.
    Julius Malema is nothing other than an ill-disciplined, belligerent,uneducated facist and racist in the same mold as Hitler, Stalin and Idi Amin. He is dangerous. He starts a 'debate', with Zuma's full support on nationalisation of Mines and financial institutions and gushes Mugabe's success with the farms restitution program. And the spineless leaders of the ANC/Communist dare not say a word. Zuma's recent admonishment should be taken with some skepticism and wait to see whether Malema will in fact be brought before the ANC disciplinary committee.
    Is it possible that black racism is forgivable by the civil world because they have suffered under apartheid? We have a Black Management Forum, Black Lawyers Forum, Black Whatever-you-can-think-of association it is acceptable, but dare professional of a white group form a similar body it 'is not in keeping with the democratic reality of the new South Africa'
    It is OK to have Chinese, German, American, Jewish, Catholic Schools, but dare white South Africans promote something similar then it is unpatriotic.
    In South Africa there are 5m taxpayers, something like 21m voters of whom 14m receive Government grants. Of the 5m about 1.2m are white, but contributes probably in excess of 70% of tax to the Government coffers. (these figures is open to correction as SA Revenue Services is the only institution that do not give statistics broken down by race - wonder why?)
    Without white capital, management skills and entrepreneurship South Africa would already on the way to a basket case like Zimbabwe.
    Productive farms are being targeted to hand over to subsistence farmers and those that have been given to so-called black commercial farmers have failed miserably that will take years to bring back to productivity.
    Any reasonable student of South Africa will find ample proof of the corrupt and self-serving and destructive forces at work in the ANC that is leading SA down the same path that has been evident over the past century in the rest of Africa. Everything is at fault be it Colonialism, Apartheid, Capitalism except that of the African's inherent culture of consumerism rather than production, hand outs rather than taking responsibility for his own well-being and a total lack of the ability to take accountability for anything.
    And the Western and Asian-block continue to assist in this never ending cycle where a few get rich while the majority will remain in poverty.
    In a hundred years from now Africa will still be stooped in poverty and racism and xenophobia will be still be debated, however I am afraid that whites will have taken up residence in Australia, New Zeeland and elsewhere. Take the cement out of the economic structure and the rest of Africa will be a reality in South Africa. Such a pity that a beautiful country with wonderful people are being messed up by a group of ignorant politicians.

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  • 108. At 10:57pm on 13 Apr 2010, ekogaia wrote:

    Its really funny how so many people, especially South Africans, see things in black and white. Like the comments that the BBC is controlled by the Illuminati, or that the BBC is leftist!
    Given this degree of whackiness it is unsurprising that such a lot of guff is being written about the historical footnotes of Malema and Terreblanche. Yes, certainly some of Hardings comments are on the money, and so are many of the others made on his article.
    But lets keep perspective. Terreblancmange is a nothing, an empty vessel, a bully whose followers are cowards only prepared to stand up when amongst their own kind. Take them out of Ventersdorp and they become pale shadows of their neo-nazi alter egos. Their time has gone and they are little more than political dinosaurs. Certainly they can still go and make trouble but not much. Dont stroke their fragile egos and make them appear self important.
    As far as Malema (or as a talk show host recently called him MiniAmin!) goes, forget it, he is never going to amount to anything politically. He keeps his foot firmly in his mouth and simply (the operative word) enjoys the limelight. He is political burned toast.
    So lets all just move on and get on with the real work of nation building and not tearing down what we have. Sure our democracy is fragile but so is any democracy. Look what Osama Bin Laden did for democracy in the US. Look what the IRA did in the UK.
    In order for democracy to succeed we must build inclusive, trusting societies and in South Africa that means that we have to narrow the gaping chasm between the rich and poor. Who happen to mainly be black and white but not exclusively so.

    So maybe we should see things in black and white.......

    Only joking. Polarisation does not work. We are all unique and must work together to celebrate the commonality of ourselves as well as our differences. We need to sit down and have a beer, or a cup of tea, with the malemas and terreblancmanges and everyone in between and build on what we have in common. Because there is always something in common.....

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  • 109. At 11:07pm on 13 Apr 2010, swaziwhite wrote:

    Churchill could sum a country/people up in a matter of months and his words are still so correct today.
    Have we not learnt from the past?
    Every sub Saharan country has followed the same route since independance. Whay should we feel RSA will be different?
    Why do we try so hard to see something positive in the freefalling country that is RSA?
    As African leaders therefore the voting people don't want to stand on their own feet, leave Africa for the Asian and Arab neo-colonisers and see what happens next.

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  • 110. At 11:19pm on 13 Apr 2010, Desire K wrote:

    Whatever Eugene Terreblanche had on his record, it does not give any right to anyone to take his life,I say this as a naturalised British from Africa. For the ANC Youth Leader, the fact that he uses hate songs encouraging attacks on a Group of their Country should simply be condemned. People moved around the World, from one place to another, we should agree to the fact that we are citizens of the World.

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  • 111. At 00:00am on 14 Apr 2010, Noel Luyt wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 112. At 00:46am on 14 Apr 2010, Noel Luyt wrote:

    Plouw,Your words are great.
    I am an old ballie now who evaded subscriction by sitting in boep. I was elated when Mandela was released. Mandela was fine, then halfway through Mbeki the problems started and at the end of Mbeke when his minidter of law and order told us to leave i did.
    Thank God i dont pay taxes any more to them clowns.Here where i stay now you get everthing and tax money back.

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  • 113. At 00:58am on 14 Apr 2010, Noel Luyt wrote:

    Plouw,Your words are great.
    I am an old ballie now who evaded subscriction by sitting in boep against it. I was elated when Mandela was released. Mandela was fine, then halfway through Mbeki the problems started and at the end of Mbeke when his minidter of law and order told us to leave i did.

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  • 114. At 01:07am on 14 Apr 2010, Dr Kay wrote:

    A certain post claims blacks stole land from the San people.
    This beggs the question who are San?? are they not black and African!! The author of this article exposes his/her ignorance and from experience reeks of a certain ilk of south african inclination, who think this way. We black people: The San ,Zulu ,Xhosa have always had our differences but it's between family.. dont interfere. By the way Nelson is definitely San as much as he is Xhosa. This is a fact!!

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  • 115. At 01:22am on 14 Apr 2010, mr tumma wrote:

    EVIL IS SOUTH AFRICA, RIGHT FROM BEGINING WASNT ATARTED BY AFRICANS
    JUST AS IS WEST CENTRAL AFRICA, WERE FRANCE IS STILL HAVING 300M
    AFRICANS ENSLAVED IN A CFA FRANCS CURRENCY SCHEME JUST TO KEEP FRANCE SOLVENT, AFRICANS HAVE LIVED IN S AFRICAN FOR THOUSANDS OF TEARS WITH HEAD ACHE, THEN CAME THE DUTCH, THE BRITISH ETC, ALL LOOKING FOR
    GREENER PASTURES. NOW WITH WEAPONDS AND TECHNOLOGY THEY SUCCEEDED TO CONINUE THIS THEFT AND SPOILAGE OF AFRICAS GOLD, DIAMONDS, HUMANS
    AS IF ITS THEIRS, WITHOUT CONSCIENCE AS IF THERE IS NO GOD. YET THEY NEVER STOP TO THINK, WHO REALLY OWNS THESE WEALTH?
    SOO, HAD IT BEEN GOD WANTED AFRICANS TO LIVE POOR THEESE ROCHES WONT HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO THEM, SOO WHITE DUTCH ETC,, MUST REMEMBER THAT 40 DECADES IN SOUTH AFRICA DOESNT REAKKY MAKE THEM AFROCANS,
    AND THAT THEY MUST HAND OVER THOSE GOLD, DIAMONDS, LAND BACK TO THE TRUE OWNERS IF THE WOULD GO TO HEAVEN AND REPENT BEFORE THET DIE. FOR THEIR SINS ARE JUST TOO MUCH AND VERY FILTHY BEFORE GODS EYES.

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  • 116. At 01:26am on 14 Apr 2010, Tommy_Borobudur wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 117. At 01:33am on 14 Apr 2010, FleetJackHobbs wrote:

    Oh my! What sad reading most of this makes. It is so incredibly heartbreaking to read that a BBC reporter in 2009, experienced virtually the same ignorance as I discovered entering Zambia in 1966. I too was buttonholed by white hospitality (yes, "hospitality!") and told to beware of "ka**irs" (sic). I too was constrained to listen to a host of racist jokes. I too was forced in the main to choose between white friends and black. White friendship came with the condition that you were white, whereas black friendship came with the condition that you were human.

    I now count the ten years I spent in Zambia as the most productive, the best and happiest of my life, working with Zambians, Malawians, Indians, Canadians, South Africans, Russians, Irish, East Africans and other British. - I'm not blind and I'm not daft. I've studied the histories and have some awareness of the problems. I've read my Ngugi wa Thiongo and my Nadine Gordimer...

    But, man! It's gonna take another Mandela and another Slovo - and maybe even a Mandela and a Slovo beyond that!

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  • 118. At 01:54am on 14 Apr 2010, mr tumma wrote:

    ALL THESE TROUBLES STARTED 40 DECADES AGO, BY THE DUTCH, BRITISH, ETC
    WHO CAME TO S AFRICA IN SEARCH FOR GREENER PASTURES, INSTEAD OF
    DISPLAYING
    HUMBLENESS ,THEY BROUGHT WEAPONS AND INTENT TO ENSLAVES AFRICANS , SOO THEY ALONE CAN STEAL THEIR WEALTH. JUST LIKE FRANCE WHO HAVE COMPLETED ENSLAVED 300M WEST-CENTRAL AFRICANS IN 5DECADES OVER A CFA CFA FRANCS CURRENCY SCHEME, WHO WORK TO KEEP FRANCE SOLVENT. NO ONE IN WORLD RAISE AFINGER TO POINT OF THESE DEVILISH ACTS. WHY MUST A EUROPEAN TAKE AWAY FROM AFRICA, WHAT DOESNT BELONGS TO IT, AND TURN AROUND BLAME AFRICANS, HOW MANY FARICANS ARE ENSLAVING EUROPE? THE GOLD,DAIMONDS, ETC MINES SHOULD BE TRANSFER TO S AFRICANS THATS THEIR BIRTH RIGHTS, IF GOD NEVER WANTED THEM TO BE WEALTHY, YEE WOULD HAVE NEVER OFFERED THESE RICHES TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, SOO, THE BLAME TO SOUTH AFRICA SINS ARE TO THE WHITEMAN WHO HAVE TURN HIS BACK TO GOD, WHO MUST REPENT, AND DO THE RIGHT THING.

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  • 119. At 02:01am on 14 Apr 2010, aprofromindia wrote:

    I have never been to South Africa - and might never go there with my virtual experience of the country - but I must say I failed to understand Andrew's point of trying to prove the "White Racism" in the country. But he did fail to pin point the rampant "Black Rasism" in the same country; which is probably more prevailing and life threatening in its current form as has been proved by the numerous murders of older white farmers - time and again. But then again I must say I have yet to meet a White South African expat - older than 25 who doesn't make the occasional racist comment - every once in a while :)

    Maybe it's just a community which is excellent in producing hate - I surmise :)

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  • 120. At 02:02am on 14 Apr 2010, mr tumma wrote:

    PLOUW. I WOULD CALL THEM AFRICANS, AND WHITE DUTCH-AFRICANS, FRENCH-AFRICANS, BRITISH-AFRICANS, AURTRALIANS AFRICANS, BECAUSE CALLING THEM ALL SOUTH AFRICANS IS WRONG THEY ARE FOREIGNERS IN AFRICAN. THEN WE CAN HAVE A PROGRAM OF EQUALILITY BASED ON THAT.
    AFRICA FOR AFRICANS, ONLY, CHINA FOR CHINESE, BRITAIN FOR BRITISH, AUSTRALIA FOR AUSTRALIANS.

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  • 121. At 03:05am on 14 Apr 2010, Henry wrote:

    I find Mr Harding naive. As a newcomer to South Africa, he does not see how the kindly comments by his ANC contacts at how abhorrent their elected leaders are, seem a bit strange.
    Since 2007 with the adoption of a National Democratic Revolution at its Polokwane conference, the ANC has put as core value African hegemony and is moving away from (and deeply undermining) the mutually negotiated constitution.
    In the end, Mr Harding, there will be no space in South Africa, even for good-willers like youself. The threat to the core of South Africa will have to have a face off between constitutionalists and hegemonists, unless the ANC does a complete about turn.
    There is nothing inherently racial about it. In the end though, this defence of the constitution will probably be portrayed as a white rebellion and the ANC will do its best to convince black South Africans that this is the case. (It is much easier to paint with just a tarred brush.)
    The Eugene Terblanche spectacle (of more than 10000 supposed supporters) was also not so much about white supremacy as it was painted in the media, but about commiseration among boers of another (well know) fallen boer. Driving the boers off the land (through murder and land seizure), entrepreneurs out of their businesses and politicians out of their posts is all part of the African hegemonist plot.
    In the end, South Africa will be a wasteland, held hostage by a dictator.
    The best we can hope for is a return to constitutionalism and non-racialism by the governing party. This may have to be fought for.

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  • 122. At 03:17am on 14 Apr 2010, BCKroniC wrote:

    ANYTIME A WHITE PERSON SAYS SOMETHING THERE A RACIST BUT ANYTIME A BLACK PERSON OR A JEWISH PERSON SAY SOMETHING THERE DEFENDING THEMSELVES! JUST BECAUSE THE BRITISH AND EUROPEANS WERE SUPERIOR IN MILITARY MIGHT,SOCIAL STRUCTURING, ORGANIZATION AND HAD BETTER TECHNOLOGY THAN THE AFRICANS THEY THINK THAT THEY WERE "THE BAD GUYS". YEAH THEY DID SOME BAD STUFF WHEN THEY WERE IN AFRICA BUT THAT WAS THE WAY IT WAS BACK THEN WARS WERE FOUGHT AND ITS TO BE EXPECTED THAT THE LOOSER WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST. THATS RIGHT THE PAST! THINGS HAPPENED AND DON'T BLAME WHITE PEOPLE FOR THE THINGS PEOPLE DID DECADES AGO. THINGS HAPPENED THAT'S THE WAY IT PLAYED OUT. PLUS THERE WERE NO BLACK PEOPLE LIVING IN AND AROUND THE CAPE TOWN AREA WHEN THE DUTCH AND BRITS LANDED THERE, THE BLACKS JUST FLOCKED THERE ONCE THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND TECHNOLOGY WERE MADE THERE. THE SOUTH AFRICAN CURRENCY WAS HIGHER THAN THAT OF THE CANADIAN DURING THE APARTHEID AND NOW ITS 10 TIMES LOWER THAN THAT OF THE CANADIAN WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? I JUST DON'T THINK THE GOVERNMENT OF SOUTH AFRICA CAN RUN THE COUNTRY. AT LEAST DURING THE APARTHEID IT WAS CLEAN SAFE AND HAD AN ORGANIZED GOVERNMENT THAT COULD ACTUALLY RUN THE COUNTRY. PEOPLE ALWAYS HATE ON WHITE PEOPLE FOR THINGS THEY DID IN THE PAST, STOP COMPLAINING AND DEAL WITH IT!

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  • 123. At 03:32am on 14 Apr 2010, blessing wrote:

    people get your mind right, ET was killed by his workers on pay dispute (21 and 15 years boys. first that is a child labour. Secondly not all Afrikaners supported his way of thinking. I don't promote killing but i refused to allow ignorant media to brain wash people. I disagree with Malema way of thinking so as many people in South Africa. And Malema was not there, i believe those two guys never attended any meetings with Malema. i am sure they watch tv and listen radio. do we have to blame the media for that. i live in Europe now, original from SA.

    Since the beginning of promoting the 2010 fifa world cup, media in Europe has not real good at all. SA has a high crime rate, rape rate and AID's rate. Listen most of My SA friends living here in EUROPE are HIV tested all My European friend are not tested. but most counties in Europe give lover figures every year.

    One reader mention that European help Africa for infrastructure, read the history my friend. the Avatar movie might give you two stories, that what happen in Africa, North america, South america, Australian and Asia. for an info. SA infrastructure is far develop then other counties in Europe from my personal point of view.

    one reader said above: In South Africa there are just more then 5m taxpayers, something like 21m voters of whom 14m receive Government grants. Of the 5m about 1.2m are white, but contributes probably in excess of 70% of tax to the Government coffers. (these figures is open to correction as SA Revenue Services is the only institution that do not give statistics broken down by race - wonder why?) that true i do agree.

    that another truth, more then 90% of land is owned by white in South Africa, more then 80% of mineral resources (gold, diamonds, platinum aluminium, cement and more)in SA owned by white. more then 79% of managerial jobs in SA occupied by white. the structure of organisation in SA as follows, Blacks are operators or labor, Indians are supervisor and plant manager then white are managers, senior managers and CEO. only that does not sound right to me it like (white is a muster black and Indian are slave)

    the incompetence of the SA Politician and government, will actual drive the SA county into a mess. the course will be land issues, affirmative action that is not applied well (poor white fighting with poor black and poor Indian leaving rich people out of the picture.) entrepreneurship that is not well developed. and very poor leadership in SA. politician are power hungry, if not power hungry why there are more than 10 opposition parties against the ruling party. and those opposition parties never agree to anything.

    let also Remember what happen between Zimbabwe and UK after 22 years of independent.Most Southern African (black and white) know the history. what happen in other counties that were colonized by UK. Read history.

    another reader said "The current blacks living in South Africa at this very moment are themselves foreign invaders as the San peoples were the original inhabitants of Southern Africa". i do agree and disagree. first i am an African, i was not learning any history about that, most of our history in SA started in 1854. every body knows that information of invaders the San peoples around 15 BC was made visible around 1999.

    I was born and raised in a farm area then move to a township for better education. My parents both died not by accident, my granny-parent were depending on farming ever since i could remember. doing plantation until today at deferent farms. never own a farm neither, or just a piece of land to build something for them.i know how it feel to have nothing-nothing at all. i also started working at the age of 11 years old just to look after myself. there were times- hard times that did force me to do crime.

    speaking from my experience, unbalance economical system and false stories from Media in SA will destroy SA. i respect media but please report the truth. People read more special UK media then think outside the box.

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  • 124. At 04:16am on 14 Apr 2010, GlobalMind wrote:

    Honestly There is one thing i dont get.. Why do the whites in south africa think that SOUTH AFRICA IS THEIR COUNTRY.... they should be happy that they are even there in the first place, they should be happy that whites and blacks can all live together, if they dont like it there THEN GO BACK HOME TO the white land, leave us africans ALONE in our motherland, you whites will never understand the love US BLACKS HAVE FOR AFRICA, yes i understand that the whites helped the economy but hey they came colonized africans messed our countries up, and now they fix it. Im not a racist but i swear if a white person is racist ESPECIALLY IN AFRICA he deserves the worst.

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  • 125. At 04:18am on 14 Apr 2010, GlobalMind wrote:

    and the white man who moderates the messages dont put up white poeples things and then decline our messages.

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  • 126. At 05:06am on 14 Apr 2010, kiron wrote:

    Racism....exists but NOT WHEN YOU HAVE education.

    Blacks in South Africa can talk about suffering during apartheid, but on the contrary my ancestors of Indian origin, moved to South in the 1870's, endured the same racism, minority oppression and escaped certain poverty through our education. Those who choose to complain sound alot like the African American population that I have grown up with in America, having moved here in 1997.

    The blacks who are educated in America don't complain, its the ones who are uneducated, who have massive priveleges and should take advantage of them but dont. OBAMA is our president even though 12% of our population consists of blacks, and it's because he's hardworking and educated, not because he's black.

    Race is an easy way to make excuses, but hard work goes further.

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  • 127. At 05:41am on 14 Apr 2010, Tshaka wrote:

    I have ran the rule on the comments herein, and have found most to be bereft of logic replete with xenophobia, racist gamesmanship and holier than thou attitudes. I grew up in Southern Africa, and an issue that interests me is the case of a quiet country called Botswana. This an interesting case study if we consider first its size and its very arid to semi arid landscape...the England essential paid it little attention or (passed it) on preferring to reach Rhodesia when they set up their colonial outposts. I visited Botswana in the mid seventies. There was no development in that country, no roads to to speak of, maybe a few that fed Gaborone to Francis Town...White man have a habit of claiming that Africa owes them this and that for their industry. Alas here is a country which is now the shining light of Africa(built solely by >>good governance) ...Less white settlement here has meant this country has less squabbles than Zimbabwe, South Africa and Namibia. It is the least corrupt in Africa and the most transparent in governance. One should note also that the less viable an African country looked to the colonizers the less of a likelihood that they wanted to settle there..which is primarily the case with Botswana. Luckily for Botswana they discovered diamonds a long time after Cecil John Rhodes and his British south Africa Company had rendered it unworthy to be a viable entity..so they called it a protectorate with an outpost to enable movement between Capetown and Salisbury... and later onto the copper belt of Zambia.....One has to ask why we are where we are.
    I recall spending time in newly independent Zimbabwe, a new govt led by Robert Mugabe..loved and adored by the west. Around 1980 and maybe a year later Mugabe unleashed his fifth brigade on the Matabele people(the people who have always been against him)....at a time when 20,000 ndebebles were being butchered, UK universities were busy bestowing honorary degrees on the tyrant Mugabe, the IMF, world Bank, and myriad western countries gave his government loans and open funding (some of which i am sure he diverted to buy arms)..I remember the British army training the Zimbabwean army)&also expatriate teachers . To me this is a sign that they held this butcher in high esteem..This at a time when the man was committing crimes against humanity, and at a time when the same Mugabe is collaborating with the North Koreans on one hand in a systemic campaign of ethnic cleansing. Flash foward to the twenty first century...Mugabe begins to lose grip( and sees that his only way) to stay in power is to redress the land issue which is why there was a war in the first place) bear in mind that white Zimbabweans have been living in luxury and priceless peace under the same Mugabe from 1980 -to at least the year 2000...What happens when Mugabe wrongly or rightly starts seizing white farms..the same IMF, world bank, and yes yes those UK universities, rescind, withdraw the loans and degrees and slap ' targeted economic sanctions' on Zimbabwe. Lets face it Whites had and have it made in Africa....near slave wages to black workers, they policed blacks like israel polices the the palestinians( a police state almost nazi like)....i recall traveling from zambia onto then Rhodesia..roadblocks. The lucky and the very few blacks found refuge in countries such as in (eg Zambia, Tanzania, Mozambique) in pursuit..of basic human rights and these newly independent countries were bombed to smitherens by the rhodesian army and south africans(talk about a poor country having infrastucture pummeled)

    Why is it difficult to grasp the idea that if you subjugate a people for all these years as in South africa and the US..since the arrival of the Boers that you will get remnants of that evil hand and the resulting attendant chasms...South Africa should not even take a page from the American modus operandi....forget about Barack Obama.... US racists in the guise of conservative fiscal governance are running around singing about accountability when they are the ones who ballooned the deficit.
    Look at the US public education system...states want to cut funding,(knowing fully well that poor kids..mostly minorities..which is black and hispanic will be affected..and in America lack of quality delivery and quality teachers..means that the poor will always suffer and this cycle will repeat itself((and this is in itself a calculated attempted at keeping these races subservient...South african blacks where denied education as were the balcks in the US under slavery where it was a crime to be seen holding a piece of paper during the time of slavery....How dare people try and revise history,,,,blaming a maligned people, who were robbed of the livelihood by some racist ideologies..that some here would quickly re-endorse.
    Have we forgotten that the same educated class from South Africa now living in Europe, Australia, canada etc were the beneficiaries of govt bursaries that have enabled them to earn a comfortable living while an independent South Africa is footing those bills today....and for a nuclear collaboration with israel that was dismantled just in time to make sure a black country does not have the capability..who is paying for that reckless experimentation????the new south africa of course...how many more grandiose, white elephant plans is the new South Africa paying from the deeds of Apartheid South Africa..which have robbed south africa the resources for education and infrastructure....and people comaplain incessantly about crime...all i can say (and i am not advocating crime) is that the denial of those basic rights..education et al are now haunting this country in terms of the same crime levels/statistics that you lament about.
    Please read 'economic hitman'..the book that somewhat shades some light into the operations of the global economy...the manipulation of world markets..that have kept third world countries paupers...If the unfair world market prices continue how do you expect a poor peanut or cotton farmer in africa can truly earn a living income from there labours when the west is in cahoots to keep these prices down...how do you expect these countries to garner revenues in taxes so they can improve roads...and you have the collaboration of the western govts with corrupt African govts....and a past expose on this is needless here.



    And to think we could have lived in a wholesome country ..if people with foresight had the upper hand...there would be no Terre Blanche, Eugene, No Malema, and no room for Mugabe....these people feed on the same political 'food'.
    It also interesting that everyone is spouting what is....we have two divergent views based on ones color....how about if we come together and find solutions..real solutions...i doubt this is possible, because the whites in South African have now find a place as bench warmers or spectators excited at the prospect or spectre of a failed south africa...like spectators at the colloseum baying for blood and acting like they are the victims...Let us not be revisionists of history please.

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  • 128. At 06:15am on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 129. At 06:25am on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    I honestly can not see any "potentially defamatory" please advise me on what wrong with my comment !! I dont have a right wing agenda my comment are based as a concerned citizen....
    The race card can be played as much as you like but there’s certain facts
    1. ET murder was number 3381 – since ANC
    2. If it was a wage/sexual or race motivated his face was so badly beaten he could not be recognized and hacked with a panga !!
    3. If ET was gay so what . .? ? our Pres. has four wife’s sleeps around and don’t use condoms
    4. Most of the ANC cabinet were in jail charges ranging from theft/murder and rape and then you get a guy like Julius Malema singing “kill the boer”
    5. Why should the country be any different than the leaders ???

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  • 130. At 07:04am on 14 Apr 2010, Tshaka wrote:

    I have been hearing this same argument as that by BCkronic....the tendency to rewrite history to suit one self....lets build from our past, think outside your comfort zone or some perceived affiliation..Nobody ever blamed white people for what they did, and they did many heinous crimes....but we want fairness in matters of economics surely if not, to attempt to redress the past...economics does not mean whites should be second class citizens as they made the african....African justice means white and black on equal footing..equal education, equal justice and equal political representation..( these are the fundamental points of conjecture for me...It means that from birth everyone regardless of religion, color, nationality...or whatever differentiation begins life with these (latter) a god given right...This was an impossibility when whites ruled Africa from North to south, from east to west...Why is it now a sin to want black kids realize what their parents , grandparents, great..grandparents..and older generations were denied....It is pure evil to want to continue on the same tangent..and by trying to play victim???
    Now you have South African whites claiming there where no blacks in the Capetown area when they landed possibly enroute to fetch the spices from the far east....Are you now trying to insinuate from your amateurish anthropological insight that whites have more of a kinsmanship to the Khoisan and hootentots ???LOL.....that whites suddenly came upon blacks more to the north of south africa..which must now give the new arrivals the right to claim this land as theirs....Give me one reason why, it would be better to the san to be a white mans chattel and with no rights in a land they have lived on for a million of years.... that they would abscond their land??? i do not see the strength of your argument....To me if you come to a land that is not yours....that is the equivalent of theft and pillaging....if you decimate a people...that would be genoicide..if you destroy the quality and the way of life of a people that is cultural genocide....It is more likely the blacks interacted with the San, and more likely they traded knowledge about the land..eg...knowlegde of the medicinal value of the botanical riches.....To move from the north of south africa to the south would have been a non issue unless of course you are attempting to restrain the the dynamism of Africans....their mobility and that indeed there was a respect between them and the nomadic San and khoi peoples....all through africa we have these minority groups that live side by side with others..some being absorbed in the bigger groups.
    The idea of land ownership is primarily a european idea..i would see the africans have more stable entities than the Khoisan..in terms of having structures, growing crops...more communal....but both learned from each....even the europeans i read drew wisdom from the africans who knew the soils and the land better..read about that..they learned from the Khoi san about the wildlife etc....i do not ascribe to the idiotic idea that these people who lived in some proximity never interacted..the difference is that Africans never had the inkling (idea)of taking land that did not belong to them, but i sure they would have the liberty to come and go as they please....Enter the white man ..and like he has done in the americas, Asia etc and yes africa...it was me..me me!!!! this is my land...this is mine!! these are my chattel...my labour!!!!..The San thought the whites were lost when they landed .. and so did the africans..alas they are still there and have created problems since they came....I would give up all the white so-called "infrasture" if i could go back to the days when the land was for....and back then there was no famine in africa..never was there any until..the europeans came....read your history and read succinctly..read different books from different authors....Thank you very much

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  • 131. At 07:11am on 14 Apr 2010, Tshaka wrote:

    FleetJackHobbs...yours was a refreshing read....more in line with the africa I know, the zambia i was born in , the zimbabwe i grew up in and yes looking with a microscopic view from another racialized country..where the next battle will be....Yes I speak of the USA

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  • 132. At 07:34am on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    I dont understand how my comment can be found to "broke the house rules" when i read some of the other comment's on this blog !!! Honestly .. . ..
    O well ...... we are used to being ignored :-)

    I would just like to thank Mr Julius Malema for doing his best at re uniting the "white people" as we are called not africans afcourse!As for the first time in a very long time we all have one thing in commin . . . " VIVA MALEMA .. "

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  • 133. At 07:38am on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    Mr tumma --- im trying not to laugh at your Logic . .

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  • 134. At 07:56am on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    Tshaka said "I would give up all the white so-called "infrasture" if i could go back to the days when the land was for....and back then there was no famine in africa..never was there any until..the europeans came...." .... This I must say sounds a lot like your Zimbabwe you “grew up in” …. Having all the land to yourself(Africans I mean)People farming growing food and sustaining themselves.Where no person goes to sleep hungry and you can go to the nearest supermarket and buy a bread !! …….. Yea right !!

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  • 135. At 08:04am on 14 Apr 2010, PLouw wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 136. At 08:06am on 14 Apr 2010, PLouw wrote:

    What really is interesting is that at grass root level South Africans get on extremely well across the race barrier. Kids born in the early 90's learnt about apartheid in history books and by folk lore. They relate well to one another, are friends, go out together and date.

    The real fly in the ointment is the ANC politicians that cannot and will not stop looking at the past in stead of focusing on the future. Their obsession since Thabo Mbeki became President is 'our people' or 'the majority of our people' thereby excluding those who voted against the ANC.

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  • 137. At 08:07am on 14 Apr 2010, PLouw wrote:

    What really is interesting is that at grass root level South Africans get on extremely well across the race barrier. Kids born in the early 90's learnt about apartheid in history books and by folk lore. They relate well to one another, are friends, go out together and date.

    The real fly in the ointment is the ANC politicians that cannot and will not stop looking at the past in stead of focusing on the future. Their obsession since Thabo Mbeki became President is 'our people' or 'the majority of our people' thereby excluding those who voted against the ANC.

    Mbeki is a proven supreme racist, but at least he was intellectually astute. Zuma and Malema are just racists and fascists by instinct as they are both intellectually disadvantaged and Zuma will prove to be a dismal failure as a leader similar to George Bush - also an unfortunate clown with an IQ of less than 100.

    The ANC's obsession with race through their various AA, BEE, patronage and land Restitution programs, to name a few, has institutionalized race in the very fabric of South African society in similar vain to Apartheid s job reservation, mixed marriages, land and other acts.

    What's the difference? Blacks imposing racism on whites instead of whites on blacks.

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  • 138. At 08:08am on 14 Apr 2010, PLouw wrote:

    Please delete 135 & 136 as I had a problem.

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  • 139. At 08:33am on 14 Apr 2010, Barry James wrote:

    TO: 137. At 08:07am on 14 Apr 2010, PLouw wrote:
    I find your comment extremely disrespectful to our countries leaders, why such anger? Are you even a SA citizen. What happened to Ubuntu, you seem very angry.

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  • 140. At 08:46am on 14 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    cirvine11 at post 93:
    You are delusional, just like every set of useless african governments the concept of wealth distribution comes up.....I am so sick of hearing the same old line. Take from those who have worked their backsides off to make the wealth and then give it to those who are completely and utterly incapable of manageing the wealth.

    I Grew up in SA and lived there for 23 years, My family and countless other familys worked damn hard there for three generations to build a country that worked. They Build schools that became some of the best education houses in the world. They built hospitals that were so technologically advanced that they had the first open heart surgery. Not USA not UK ....SA....

    Now look at the state of our infrustructure, schools that recieved books a week late are raised to the ground by the students. Burned it down, Smash all thew windows out.

    You cannot build a strong country by handing it all over to people who cannot manage it. You need to open the education system up to all, keep the pass marks and standards high and breed a generation of strong capable people who deserve their place. Not a bunch of chimps sitting on boards of directors running big organisations, who got their because they were pushed in over more capable people. SA should be based on a system of merit achievement not wealth distribution.

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  • 141. At 09:15am on 14 Apr 2010, kolobe wrote:

    whites in south africa run 90% of the joburg stock exchange.own 90% of commercial land. make 3/4 of private sector management. remember they only make 9% of south africa. claim they are rich through hard work..we know how much apartheid favoured them. an fnb study incated blacks in south africa were more educated than their white counterparts yet got paid way less. whites in sa spend too much time on the internet spreading rubbish. you can tell from the threads above none is from a black south african. everybody knows about the racism coming from afrikaners

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  • 142. At 09:26am on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    @ Barry James --- I dont fully agree with Post #137 ---- But in his defence most people feel Agitated/negative/tired i dont know enough english words 2 describe the feelings !
    Although I still hope one of our “leaders” will take “charge” of SA and take it forward like it should be!

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  • 143. At 09:33am on 14 Apr 2010, Noel Luyt wrote:

    Mr Harding you want comparasions to somebody like our Julius. Geez the old beeb sends a boy to do a mans job again. Did you do history in school boy? or was it the washed down version of a guilty slave trading nation who made their money out of oppressing the unwashed masses?
    For a quick revision exercise in your African history just choose a few countries to the north of South Africa and see what happened to them when the colonial capitialist pulled out and handed power back to the so called indigenous people.(REmemember all the lines that wher drawn on the map by your Forefathers?)
    Now when things dont go quiet according to plan ie the old mines etc we send in the CIA to topple the goverment to get it back to our liking.
    Have you evr investigated this Mr Harding, The slave trade,CIA no because this will upset all them racist peasants that read your articles back in your mother land.
    Tip of the day. Put on your bullet proof vest before you leave your secure apartment as you might get shot just because somebody thinks you might have something of value that they can liberate from you.

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  • 144. At 09:43am on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    @Kolobe post #141 ---- I honestly dont agree with you figures but no matter . . . I stay in my average house drive a avereage car to go to my average work I start work 4h45 stop at 15h30 ! Where do i fit into your Statistic’s ??But just because i was born in 1972 .... does that mean all should be taken away from me and my family murdered ?

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  • 145. At 09:47am on 14 Apr 2010, johnsky2010 wrote:

    SA is a country of various mixes, these diversity has helped in its advancement when compared to other African countries. it must see the advantages and benefits of this mix and stop propagating its negatives. apartheid is gone for good, SA must stop leaving in its vestiges.

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  • 146. At 09:53am on 14 Apr 2010, Noel Luyt wrote:

    @DR kay. If you want to go back that far in history DNA tests prove that the whole of the modern human race originated from Afrika. So where are we going to draw the line? Skin Colour,Lip shape, Nose size or the old pencil through the hair test. Are we going to draw a line in history or just accept that everyboby is a human being? Not so in South Afrika as they still have racial discrimination on the law books. WE are still classified by race and not wether you are a human being.

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  • 147. At 10:14am on 14 Apr 2010, PLouw wrote:

    Post #139 Barry James

    No I am not angry. I am disillusioned with ubuntu and all the other rubbish we are getting from our ANC leaders. Respect is earned and corrupt, racist, self-serving leaders do not command respect. Their behaviour earns disrespect and to try and spin ubuntu to cover up their gross incompetence and dishonesty is, with respect, misplaced.

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  • 148. At 10:49am on 14 Apr 2010, Barry James wrote:

    TO: 147. At 10:14am on 14 Apr 2010, PLouw wrote:

    I understand your concerns, however as a South African we must be positive, there are many decent leaders in the Alliance e.g: YCL Gen Sec. Buti Manyamela, Z. Vavi, Dep. Pres. Molanthe & many many more at gras roots. hopefully corruption will be eroded by society as a whole as Chris Hani once mentioned. Be positive, its a much easier way to look at things, we haev the most beautiful country with such wonderful cultures. Enjoy our country & try beat corruption & bad leadership at a graas root level. Regards

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  • 149. At 11:33am on 14 Apr 2010, Travis Smithard wrote:

    cirvine 11 entry 94, that is exactly what mugabes men set out to do in the first place, and do you really think that if the land is distrubuted and the country goes down the drain economically that south africans will live in peace...that would almost certainly cause even more theft and murder to take place..

    Thank the lord it is against our constitution, section 25, to have such drastic land reform... P.S obviously you are an outsider so let me give you a stat, 10% of the major white owned farms in this country provide 80% of its food resource...

    So what do you think will happen if you were to redistrubute that land amoungst countless largely small scale black famrers... This country would be just another african state needing food aid from the world, or we can keep the current system and be able to export and sell food surplus (eg.Maize) to the WFO??

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  • 150. At 11:50am on 14 Apr 2010, TrueToo wrote:

    The more I come back to this article by Mr. Harding the clearer it becomes that he is steeped in the typical leftist BBC tradition of hitting white South Africans racists hard while tiptoeing delicately around black racists. As someone else pointed out, Terreblanche is described as "vile" but Malema only as "the enfant terrible of South African politics." Here's a definition:

    If you describe someone as an enfant terrible, you mean that they are clever but unconventional, and often cause problems or embarrassment for their friends or families.

    A milder description of the man would be hard to find. The left wing media will never be able to adequately analyse and depict the SA situation as long as it remains glued to political correctness.

    But this is the most interesting, and most worrying, part of the article:

    That prompted another prominent ANC official to write privately to our office to express his fury that "my leaders desert the core values of my movement by not repudiating every odious statement he makes."

    Why does this person feel he/she has to remain anonymous? Is it the case the Malema has more sympathisers than opponents among the ANC leadership? I fear that probably is the case, but will we learn if it is or isn't from the BBC?


    99. gallantajala,

    You make some valid points but your statistics are way off. It's only been 17 years since the end of apartheid and the figure of 3000 whites refers only to the murdered farmers not to all whites murdered since then, which would I have no doubt would be at least double that figure. And I think Terreblanche was jailed for six years, of which he served four, not two.

    But I also want to respond to this:

    A large part of the violence in South Africa post independence has been caused by the wrong headed ANC policy of blanket forgiveness for all the murderous crimes carried out by the leaders and middle ranking war criminals, torturers and genocidial thugs of apartheid.

    "Blanket forgiveness" is a little strong. White security forces members (and not only whites) were obliged to come before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission with full disclosure of their crimes. And some who didn't were jailed. That at least gave family members of the victims some closure. It is also worth noting that the ANC itself refused to come before the Commission, which I guess has its historical justification but it still meant that there would be no closure for the victims, black and white, of ANC atrocities committed as apartheid fell.

    Would South Africa really be in a better state today if the government had rolled out the tumbrils and oiled the guillotines? I doubt it. Anyway, perhaps the ANC should have warned the opposition, and especially the whites, that they had better try to get out of the country since there would be no protection for them from rampaging gangs of blacks dissatisfied with the lack of retribution for apartheid and bent on their own brand of murderous revenge along with the forced redistribution of wealth.






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  • 151. At 12:33pm on 14 Apr 2010, Dr Kay wrote:

    Being new to this forum i have noticed that the moderation is quite impartial. I am black, I hold a PHD from a prestigious German university in a hard science, I speak 4 languages without counting my mother toungue, and most of what i say is carefully reasoned and uninflamatory. To my surprise my first post which is rather straightforward is considered to have broken house rules , while vitrol from clearly linguistically challenged red necks replete with phrases like "niger" is allowed to persist.

    I would would like to know who does this moderator?? do we have equal representation ?? I certainly hope Terreblanche's cousin is not behind the veil of "moderator". Which i suspect!!

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  • 152. At 1:03pm on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    TrueToo ----- I agree

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  • 153. At 1:36pm on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    @ Dr Kay post#151 - Dr Kay
    Well if Terreblanche's cousin is behind the veil . . .. he doesnt like "White people" aswell

    If i had 2 Guess why your first post was deleted …… with such implausible phraseology and your sky-scraping intellect they in all probability felt endangered by you ……my good sir(heheheheeeee)

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  • 154. At 1:57pm on 14 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    Thank you all for a very entertaining day,I never laughed so much @ some of the comments – Luv ya -

    :-)

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  • 155. At 3:44pm on 14 Apr 2010, Englishman_in_Jozzi wrote:

    I moved to Johannesburg from England around the same time as Andrew and thus far I have found it to be much the same as back home in as much as we have the North South divide, Class divide. It just seems to be human nature to distrust rather than dislike people who are different to ourselves either by geography, social standing and to the extreeme the colour of our skin.

    White Afrikaaners dont mix with White "English" South Africans which I found very hard to grasp as like the rest of us outside ZA I purely thought it was as simple as a Black against White thing which it clearly isnt.

    Because of the crime rate people in ZA tend not to mix with people outside of their own families which of course doesn't help with the intigration, public transport is not of the same standard that we enjoy and take for granted in the UK so for many the only opportunity to mix with others outside their family is either work or shopping.

    In short if ZA really wants to move forward and to then they need to bring an almost triannical approach to crime, improve public transport, make the govenment more transparrent and answerable for their actions, stop racial policies such as BEE as they only highlight the tensions and as hard as it may be they need to close the book on the past not forget it but leave the past in the past. If they are unable to do this then it pains me to say it but I can't see a future here for my (black) son.

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  • 156. At 5:05pm on 14 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    151 Dr Kay. I read your "African" means "black" blog and smiled at the worthless information. The latest blog on your educational pedigree, well is childish, I would expect a PHD graduate to be able to deal with a debate at a higher level but red necks, poor grammar etc? Come on with your PHD raise the standard! We haven't all been so fortuate as to flee Africa and study at a German institute. My ancestors offered Africa the soft sciences - practical, hard work! By the way, Africans are brilliant when it comes to languages, I'm afraid you are just par for the course on that score.

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  • 157. At 5:36pm on 14 Apr 2010, Kiron wrote:

    If you complain about wealth distribution, read this...

    US Stats
    -The wealthiest 1 % of families owns roughly 34.3% of the nation's net worth
    -Top 10% of families owns over 71%,
    - bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%.

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

    2003 US SALARY STATS
    20% of population make $17,984
    50% of population make $43,318
    20% of population make $86,867
    5% of population make $154,120

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

    HIGHEST POVERTY GROUPS IN AMERICA
    - 8.6% non-Hispanic White
    - 11.8% Asian-American
    - 23.2% Hispanic (of any nationality),
    - 24.7% African-American lived in poverty.

    Poverty rate among single-parent black families was 39.5%, while it was only 9.9% among married-couple black families.

    Income levels vary along racial/ethnic lines: 21% of all children in the United States live in poverty,
    46% of African American children
    40% of Latino children live in poverty.[33]

    BIG FACTORS
    It is noted, however, that 70% of black children are born to single mothers

    WHY EDUCATION PAYS OFF?
    Not only do Asian families have higher average incomes than blacks and Hispanics, they have higher average incomes than white families.
    For example, the 2005 median income of Asian families was $68,957
    white families of $59,124.

    Asians, however, report that they face discrimination more frequently than blacks. Specifically, 31% of Asians reported employment discrimination compared to 26% of blacks in 2005. (Source: Amy Joyce, “The Bias Breakdown,” The Washington Post, December 9, 2005, p. D01 citing Gallop Poll data.)

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  • 158. At 9:06pm on 14 Apr 2010, TrueToo wrote:

    152. Leon,

    Thanks.


    Looks like the thread is dwindling. Mr. Harding, how about giving us some feedback on these responses to your blog?

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  • 159. At 11:01pm on 14 Apr 2010, Gabrielus wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 160. At 11:37pm on 14 Apr 2010, Gabrielus wrote:

    This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain

  • 161. At 01:09am on 15 Apr 2010, Dr Kay wrote:

    To Brenda07

    Africans being the source of all that is human naturally have a proclivity to be linguistically gifted. I commend you for highlighting this. However you also disturbingly display the same streak present in your forefathers: You put black people in a box and decide what they are good for.
    It is indeed a shame that this part of your gene has not evolved in 300 years. It is shared still, by the AWB and its benefactors. I am glad that everyone realises that it is just a "Complex".

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  • 162. At 02:51am on 15 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    161 Dr Kay. Are you not inclined to put whites in boxes? All I said was that Black's liguistic abilities were awesome, at no point did I say it is what Blacks are "good for". Talk about a complex!
    My understanding, by the way, is that "nigrum" or "niger" are the Latin words for black. Of course, it does make one wonder why the one Latin word is considered distastful and the other so acceptable and exclusive! Gosh, I thought it was the whites that were horribly exclusive!
    As regards my unevolved gene part, if practicalities and hard work are shameful in your eyes so be it. I will continue to abide by those ethics.

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  • 163. At 05:32am on 15 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    @ post No.155

    "...White Afrikaaners dont mix with White "English" South Africans .... " sjoe this is a very Oversimplification …… that Arikaans people don’t want to mingle with “English” people . . .. . I understand the language barrier could be a problem but I honestly don’t agree with your statement that . . . . . I know it’s only “your” opinion ........ only my 5c

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  • 164. At 05:46am on 15 Apr 2010, Leon wrote:

    @Post No.161 - Dr Kay

    I "love" your all your posts ---- Its very "informative" and I can see you have a “rainbow in your heart”,you are in the right job to help people !
    Good luck on your “journey to forgiveness” ……. As I know the “white Europeans” has “damaged” your life “extremely”

    Ps – al my comments in “..“ are sarcastic

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  • 165. At 10:28am on 15 Apr 2010, Gabrielus wrote:

    Hard work, eh?

    If you and your sort are in indeed such a hard worker as you claim, then why did your ancestor felt the needs to chain million of African all the way to South-America?

    I smell a poor reasoned f**l.

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  • 166. At 2:35pm on 15 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    165 Gabrielus. Your ability to reason seems to be as undeveloped as your sense of smell! If I am to blame for my sort, by which I would assume you mean whites, than you are to blame for your sort! And before you jump to another short sighted answer do a little research into your accusations and see just who ALL the guilty parties are. You might begin to own your own historical short comings and failures instead of just pointing fingers at what you assume are mine.

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  • 167. At 7:08pm on 15 Apr 2010, Gabrielus wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 168. At 8:27pm on 15 Apr 2010, Dr Kay wrote:

    A friend of mine for Poland visited South Africa and he confessed to me that "for the first time in my life i felt white". This is the South African problem. That people find their identity in color types, and this informs how they interact with other "types".
    Until this is a non-issue. The country walks a slippery slope.

    Ich habe ein traume!!

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  • 169. At 08:53am on 16 Apr 2010, Andrew Harding BBC wrote:

    Thanks for all – well, most – of your comments - and sorry for the delay in responding. I think my main point holds - that the shrillest voices on all sides are in danger of diverting focus away from the most urgent challenges facing South Africa. This article highlights what may be the biggest threat http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=106184

    Several of you proposed other possible role models for Julius Malema. I suspect Stalin would have eaten him for lunch, but keep an eye on Zimbabwe’s new rising star, Indigenisation Minister, Saviour Kasukuwere. I met him in Harare recently http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8551616.stm

    where he said he welcomed the economic collapse of the past decade because it had given Zimbabweans “character” and “faith.” More on him in the coming days.

    As for South Africa’s own indigenisation process – gentler, slower, but hardly successful – there’s an interesting article here

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=171109&sn=Detail

    about the tortuous issue of land reform.

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  • 170. At 11:19am on 16 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    Gabrielas: It is people like you (Black or white) who have no place in our society. Your racist views are the last thing any country needs. You would be best served under a nazi banner. But then again your probably just another mindless ANC supporter.

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  • 171. At 12:48pm on 16 Apr 2010, Patrik wrote:

    Sometimes when you read a blog the comments tell you more about the state of an issue than the blog itself. Considering the number of removed comments and nature of the exchange of views in some others this is certainly the case here.

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  • 172. At 1:05pm on 16 Apr 2010, Patrik wrote:

    I think Margarets comment about resources put into education in ZIM compared to SA is very valid and I also think that South Africa’s future depends on how the issue of quality of education is handled.

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  • 173. At 5:03pm on 16 Apr 2010, Globetrotter wrote:

    The type on this page is black and the background is white. It takes both the become legeable. Without the two we would not be able to read the article! Let's just leave colour out of it and get along once and for all. Race and colour are no more significant than the colour of our eyes.

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  • 174. At 7:48pm on 16 Apr 2010, Simpletruth wrote:

    As a reasonable man, and having had many in depth conversations on the subject of Racism against the ethnic minorities in South Africa (Largely against the white population actually) i was utterly dismayed at the governments handling of the funeral of the right wing, white supremisist leader in South Africa. It is yet another reminder that the current South African Government is a wholly incapable bunch, who have no business running a bath let alone a Country.




    Why were these right wing supremisists allowed to wear swastikas, and perform Nazi salutes etc, without being arrested immediately? On the other hand, the leader of the ANC youth league has advocated mass murder of white farmers and indeed encouraged it, calling white people "pink pork" and many other disgustingly racist and highly offensive names. (He was arrested, but will recieve nothing less than a slap on the wrist and will certainly not be removed from his position any time soon!)




    The solution..... VERY SIMPLE!! if someone is caught being a racist, advocating hate crimes and encouraging murder, no matter what their race, colour, creed or religion, or that of their victim, itthey MUST face serious legal action, and find themselves behind bars or having to pay severe financial penalties.




    The White supremisists in their INCREDIBLE ignorance and sheer stupidity have endangered the lives of millions of white South Africans, by painting anyone with white skin, as a racist. It is so INCREDIBLY simple to understand the stupidity involved in being racist, parading around with such offensive symbols and gestures and inciting hatred (against themselves and other white South Africans who whole heartedly disagree with their beliefs)




    It's obvious that they are going to want to protect themselves against the EXTREMELY violent, racist and equally ignorant black extremists, who outnumber them 100-1 and who openly plot and publicise plans of genocide against the white population, but white supremist militancy in a country which has so many open wounds caused by the absolute abortion that was apartheid? Surely nobody can see the upside of that.




    The fact is that South Africa's only hope lies with those people (i would suggest the majority of South Africans of all denominations) who just want to put the past where it belongs - behind us. Those people with more than two brain cells to rub together, who can see the great hipocracy that South Africa now finds itself in, and who have looked across the border to Zimbabwe and seen that brute force, corruption, racism against any minority, and a disregard for human luife of any colour NEVER LEADS TO INCREASED WEALTH FOR ALL!! A government that does not allow all men and women to be equal, no matter what their skin colour, is not a government that the rest of the world will ever truly want to be associated with, or trust financially in any way.




    The truth is that the current South African Government is still lapping up the worlds admiration for the greatness that is Nelson Mandella, and thinks that the friendship and alliances built up by South Africa's only truly great president, will last forever. THEY WILL NOT!






    Look at the Current President (JZ) who whilst on trial for rape admitted to having unprotected sex with an HIV positive woman, but wait for it............ he wasn't concerned about catching the deadly virus because he washed his bits after intercourse!!




    Then look at the head of the ANC youth league, who is an utterly dispicable racist of a human being, with no place at all in politics, he supports Robert Mugabe (the closest thing to Hitler since the filth himself) and is openly racist against white people, chanting calls for mass murder of white people in South Africa.




    The people of South Africa need to rise up!!, not against those of different skin colour, but against racism in all forms. Instead of killing each other, why not kill afirmitive action 14 years after a black government took power, and allow those of all races to create competitive businesses in order to solve South Africa's employment problems. Instead of affirmitive action, tax businesses more and give a better quality of free education to all. IT'S THE ONLY WAY FORWARD!!!!




    I ASK YOU, IF EVERY WHITE PERSON LEFT TOMORROW, AND THEIR POSSESSIONS AND HOUSES, BUSINESSES ETC WERE SIMPLY LEFT BEHIND FOR THE TAKING (GIVEN THE FACT THAT THEY MAKE UP LESS THAN 10% OF THE POPULATION, DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT SOUTH AFRICA WOULD BE A BETTER PLACE FOR ALL WITH MORE WEALTHY PEOPLE WALKING THE STREETS AND LESS UNEMPLOYMENT AND PROBLEMS. OF COURSE NOT, THE SITUATION IN WHICH MOST PEOPLE WOULD FIND THEMSELVES WOULD BE WHOLLY UNCHANGED (IF THAT CHANGE HAPPENED SEEMLESSLY, WHICH IT WOULDN'T SO MOST PEOPLE WOULD BE INFINATELY WORSE OFF) Other countries would impose sanctions upon seeing for nthe first time, without doubt, the extreme racism towards a minority, and South Africa would become the horror movie that is Zimbabwe today.





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  • 175. At 11:32am on 17 Apr 2010, Sadiq Manzan wrote:

    YOU WROTE & ASKED: "Julius Malema reminds me increasingly of a man called Vladimir Zhirinovsky who used to play the populist clown in post-Soviet Russia, but who also gained a significant popular following and was often suspected of being a frontman for more powerful forces. Does anyone have any better comparisons?"

    MY RESPONSE: Yes, I have a better comparison, and his name is: Idi Amin

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  • 176. At 12:24pm on 17 Apr 2010, chantler wrote:

    I myself am a south african national, it angers me that the bbc reports only what they choose to report, with regards to the ventersdorp case, of course people are angry i do not agree with terreblanches policies however he has tried to protect the afrikaans language and culture just becuase you speak german does not make you a nazi! and on top of that europe only sees what is portrayed by the media.
    the media does not depict the brutal murders, rape of babies 11 months old,burning of people alive.etc
    and then they play the race card, racism is not tied between black and white, even between tribes.
    My sister lives in johannesburg, she was almost murdered and stabbed through her car window, now that is not shown or spoken of here in europe, of course not. is that fair media?
    people seem to forget that only fifty years ago america was top of the class with regards to racism,
    yet they dont call that apartheid, apartheid doesnt mean hatred it means segregation.

    even in europe racism exists on a daily basis, yet they are quick to point a finger at a white south african.
    racism has existed for a very long period in human history.
    For example look at zimbabwe, completed brought to its knees, yet europe stood by and watched as if it was a game of russian roulette.
    They didnt call the white farmers of zimbabwe racist they called them victims, yet across the border the whites are labelled racists. how funny that the human intelligence is divided by an imaginary line.
    what about julias milema, the bbc reports that they have stopped singing songs of hate, do they honestly believe that, when the bbc points a finger at a schoolboy, dont sing that song he is going to listen.?
    and still, someone singing a song of hatred is not labelled a racist only because he is black, they are called freedom fighters! not racists.
    why should white afrikaaners always be labelled as racist? then should all white british,spanish, french be called slave drivers and inventors of concentration camps?
    during the boer war, the british captured afrikaans women and children and kept them in concentration hundreds of people starved to death in camps, that was not called racism, that was called colonisation!
    racism exist in every society, and corner of the globe not only in south africa,why dont they report that for a change!












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  • 177. At 1:36pm on 17 Apr 2010, TrueToo wrote:

    176. chantler,

    I agree totally. The media has an agenda to push and they will push it no matter what the facts are.

    BBC journalists are unable to present an informed and balanced appraisal of the situation in South Africa because they see it through the filter of their prejudice. An excellent example of this was the recent clip from Karen Allen on 'From Our Own Correspondent':

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rv5dh#p007b9rv

    She starts off with a mocking portrayal of a female Terreblanche supporter in Ventersdorp and then moves on to an apparently more even-handed description of a white farmer named Harry whose friends have been murdered. But she soon proves her bias by claiming that Harry wants to return to the past as a solution to South Africa's problems while a black businessman she interviews in Soweto wants to move to the future.

    But nothing displays BBC bias and ignorance more clearly than this statement:

    Farm killings, fuelled by South Africa's gross inequalities, have become big news. And because the majority of South African farmers are white, it has assumed a racial dimension.

    Firstly, it is no thanks to the BBC that the killings have become news. Secondly, the farm killings are actually fuelled by the savagery of the killers more than any perceived "inequalities." Thirdly, if Karen Allen knew the slightest thing about the gruesome nature of the killings, the rape and murder of farmer's wives and daughters and the mutilation of the bodies of the farmers she would not casually conclude that the racial dimension is accidental. And whites are also continually murdered by blacks in a similar fashion in South Africa's towns and cities. Whites are being deliberately singled out and targeted for revenge by blacks in the "Rainbow Nation."

    Uncomfortable facts, BBC. But you have a duty as journalists not to shrink from them.

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  • 178. At 5:05pm on 17 Apr 2010, Tonde wrote:

    @41 Richard
    If that isnt the most thinly veiled racist attitude i`ve heard in a while? And the sad thing is you dont seem to realise it.
    And you finished it off with the beauty:
    "Come on you people should wake up and smell the coffee."
    And you claim ' Almost all the white people I know have moved on'?, brilliant. Apparently you aren`t one of them

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  • 179. At 5:25pm on 17 Apr 2010, Tonde wrote:

    @42 Nowhere
    I dont want to make any assumptions but you sound relatively young and a bit naive.
    "Whites entrepreneurs who risk everything and is awarded with success has to share his success (Black Empowerment). We have to read daily of the more than 1600 farm murders since 1994 but still have to pay for the roundabout 1500 apartheid related murders in the 40 years of apartheid."
    that copmment right there shows a poor understanding of 'your' history. How can you start comparing stats as justification for anyones actions.

    White entrepreneurs risk everything?? dont be ridiculous. i think you may need to further elaborate that statemnt before i take you to task

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  • 180. At 8:07pm on 17 Apr 2010, eenblanke wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 181. At 10:31pm on 17 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    179 Tonde

    Seems a bit of a slip up in your math calculations or interpretation thereof, namely if in 16 years there have been 1600 murders (of just farmers) that is an average of 100 farmers murdered per year. According to your stats, there were 1500 murders (in total) in 40 years that is an average of 37/38 per year. So a conclusion could be that people were safer under apartheid compared to the current situation.

    On entrepreneurship, would you share your salary 50/50 with just any Julius, Nosipho or Siphokazi because they want what you have and have decided you have way too much, earned it too easily and that they have had a more difficult life than yours therefore deserve it?

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  • 182. At 01:06am on 18 Apr 2010, Tonde wrote:

    181 Brenda07
    If you read back you will see i was quoting another posters comments, those were not my stats.
    Regardless, you misinterpreted my comment.
    A report in 1986 suggested 4000 deaths in the 4 previous years i.e between 1982 and 1986. On that evidence would i be right in suggesting your point is mute with regards to 'people' being safer under apartheid.

    On entrepreneurship I dont quite get your point, why would you share your salary and has anyone been asked to do that? Please enlighten me

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  • 183. At 12:38pm on 18 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    182 Tonde

    On stats, you accepted the 1600 farm murders and the 1500 apartheid figure was yours, are you now changing your tune to "suggested" deaths? Your comment that stats do not justify actions, now that is an easy cop out which you'll be able to use in various arguments - so keep it handy. On the safety issue, would you say that high electrified fences/walls, home alarms, security at every turn is a normal and acceptable way to live? Keep in mind these security measures are a post apartheid inheritance and visitors to SA start getting security advice as they walk off the plane into the airport terminal.

    On entrepreneurship, my point being why should an individual, who has taken the time to develop an idea or skill, be forced to operate under BEE rules and regulations, he is already managing his business in accordance with AA, trade unions and the Basic Conditions of employment laws, and now he is being forced to include BEE? What is the objective of BEE? Back to my original question, how willingly would you share the bulk of your income?

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  • 184. At 00:01am on 19 Apr 2010, eenblanke wrote:

    where is my comment #180??

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  • 185. At 04:54am on 19 Apr 2010, eenblanke wrote:

    Brenda,
    there is no use to argue with people who have political blinders on. All they want to see is happy Utopian paradise of a multi-racial harmonious and prosperous SA where everybody "just gets along with everybody", the turkeys are flying around already roasted and every one is dancing African , holding hands, carrying Mandela's pictures with them and playing soccer in a wonderful and peaceful shantytowns. The old Evil Monster Apartheid was slayed by the valiant ANC knights in their Mercedes-Benzes and the rainbow nation marches joyously into the shiny future singing "shoot the boer, kill the farmer"

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  • 186. At 12:46pm on 19 Apr 2010, naijaG wrote:

    I believe the word "racism" is just a euphemism for words like hatred, intolerance,greed,apathy, injustice and many more ills that the human race has been guilty of since creation. It was made popular during the days of black-white segregation in North America that led to the emergence of people like Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X and a few other human right activists. A white man living in a society that is predominanty populated by blacks has a right to feel out of place just like a black man feels when living in a white dominated society. The feelings we all share in these situations of uncertainty beclouds our perception of the fact that people are inherently good or bad irrespective of their skin colour.History can show us several examples of injustice and wickedness amongst people of the same skin colour, but nobody refers to these as racism but instead they may be termed genocide, ethnicism or tribalism. All these support the fact that we are all humans and capable of several atrocities against each other irrespective of differences in skin colour. Those who are using differences in skin colour to justify their rights or priviledges over others in any context are simply narrow minded. The world is now a global village theoretically but it still needs to evolve to be all inclusive such that whites or blacks should be free to live anywhere in the world where they feel safe without being judged by the colour of their skin but by the positive(or negative) attributes they bring to bear in the societies they live in.

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  • 187. At 9:43pm on 20 Apr 2010, Simpletruth wrote:

    Sadly the South African Government is one of inaction. Due to the heavily unbalanced scale which now exists in order to "empower" black South Africans (Who have been in power for a decade and a half)Nothing seems clear cut in the enforcement of law and order. Racism towards white South Africans is tolerated sadly, and that's just a fact. Sadly, the actions of a very small minority within the white minority give the South African Government absolutely everything it needs in order to keep on doing absolutely nothing to rectify this situation. International media will always focus on the white nuckleheads that promote racism in a country that suffered the way SA did for so long. It's those that behave in a way that incites racism that should be arrested. Once all the swastika wearing mock Nazi's are behind bars, white people in South africa will be in a much safer situation, and the Government will not have the same excuses for inaction.

    Stopping or at least ammending the current affirmitive action policy into something less extreme is the only way in which South Africa and its people will ever prosper, but whilst we still have a few utter fools roaming around stirring up racial tension on the white side, this will never happen. It also gives those who would happily murder every white South African, an excuse to champion their cause.

    White South African Farmers should start a group to close down and eradicate the far right wing white extremists so that black South Africans see that it's a minority, not a majority that warrant their ill feeling.

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  • 188. At 07:38am on 21 Apr 2010, Tshaka wrote:

    @kiron.....the very reason your family came to Africa like so many East Indians and those from the sub-continent was and is to seek out opportunities that colonialism denied your ancestors in your country. Are you content to be a beggar in your own land. Did you have to leave India to realize your potential. There is absolutely no reason why Indians should be nomads of the world...because if as you say ...education is the key..then India with the size of its population and its perception as the worlds largest democracy should be a leader in many facets of life....That however is not the case...There is so much poverty in India. Africa has afforded Indians and Europeans a quality of Life unparalleled anywhere else. The many indians i have met in the USA are beneficiaries of the opportunities Africa afforded them...this was at most at the behest of Europeans who stripped Africans of their livelihood, and then denied them the same education you and i acknowledge as the cornerstone of progress. The Europeans then stacked The Indians and the coloured races against blacks as a cushion to their dominance. Please don't tell me that in a fair world blacks do not see the value of education and learning..because it is said after hundreds of years of denying blacks education...(remember in America it was considered treasonous for a black person to be seen carrying reading material) the whites knew this was a danger..so they forbade blacks that opportunity..it was the same in Apartheid South Africa....it was either no education or some inferior education....meant principally to be subservient...Do you think these are the designs of a people who wanted to see progress in the black race...to the contrary...One of the most immediate results of emancipation was the establishment of black colleges and blacks educating themselves....this is why we have in America well over a hundred black colleges...institutions like Tuskegee, Howard and more....education was seen as a sure way out of the malaise..but yet again..one has to navigate the labyrinth of racism even with qualifications in most cases.. denied equal opportunity because of race and only a small measure of comfort is the equal employment opportunity act..EOA.....Education is indeed the great equalizer...that is why there has to be masssive injection of money into education in South Africa and one can say the US public school system once the edifice of american education is facing a right wing on slaught at a time when America needs to tidy itself up and prepare its children for a competitive global environment....America needs to educate all its kids and not be selective as in the days before..(Apartheid education)

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  • 189. At 10:27am on 21 Apr 2010, Travis Smithard wrote:

    @ 130 -Tshaka

    You put in nsome very vaild points but then you go on to say that blacks and khoisan never had issues about land and that every one got on fine and blacks didnt want to take land that wasnt theirs... That is absurd and i do please wish for you to stop for a second and think about a very well known and notorious black south african, Shaka Zulu, and if you read as much as you say you do pick up a text book and see how much King Shaka tried to colonise land in South Africa too the extent that he drove the native ndebele from Natal all the way to Zimbabwe... and have you ever heard of a scorched earth policy? Well look it up and known that rape and pillaging were Shaka's tactics of terror.. Im so gatvol of you okes coming up with your own renditions of history where the white man is solely to blame for every crime against humanity...

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  • 190. At 10:56am on 21 Apr 2010, Travis Smithard wrote:

    Dr Kay

    What exactly is your Phd in?? Have you ever even lived in South AFrica??

    I think sometimes people feel the need to state their qualifications or achievemnets in order to ensure other people take their opinion seriously.. I for one dont feel the need to display my achievements within my field of occupation, why do you feel the need to put yours forward?

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  • 191. At 1:05pm on 21 Apr 2010, aussea wrote:

    I and 24 other members of our rugby club ,in U S A have canceled our trip to S A , for the world cup, as our( woman )as do I, do not feel it is safe,and don't want to get mugged or raped, etc when SA lose ,and they will in the first round, there will be trouble,O H we were warned from a friend in S A. and he is a black man????

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  • 192. At 10:31pm on 21 Apr 2010, Tshaka wrote:

    @Travis Smithard....I happen to be ndebele, and know very well my ancestors trek from Lesotho to Matabeleland. I am not attempting to rewrite history like some people here are trying to do. Why would would you see my juxtaposition as an attempt to blame whites. And why should a white person want to Monopolize African history( do african history claim to the custodian of European history)???... How many african historians and writers have you read???and people do make that conjecture....the victors are the writers of history....In your reading , do you consider the oral tradition of African history?...I happen to seek well rounded information...so iam well aware of Tshaka, his mother Nandi, Lobengula, dingaane etc ..because believe it or not that is my history. I will not sit here and have some people try to dictate my history and litter it with falsities....if you read back..did i not suggest that larger african tribes, clans might have absorbed the minor tribes....in the context of african culture....that does not mean necessarily killing or enslavement...it means allegiance to the new king..eg Tshaka....royalties and inter-tribal marriages....The idea being spouted that Whites came to the cape....and saw no bantus is now a typical assertion to try and lay claim to that land.....History revisionist have done this in North America, Australia, , New Zealand , Canada and other lands to try and justify their lot coming to the New World ..it is a calculated design...You cannot possibly suggest for example.... that if an African sailor back in those days...came upon land in South Spain..which was partly inhabited to claim it as his own if he had the weapons to subdue the people there. We cannot rewrite history here...instead how about acknowledging it and being respectful to the cultures first there and those that come to define these places..trying to placate a culture or wanting to press the idea that your contributions are more important is not the way to go about it...No where is a there a suggestion of apportioning blame..What is done is done as bad as it was....our job now,,(yours and mine)( is to make this situation better for the future without apartheid and all the race factors that disenfranchised people based on the color of their skin...is that too much to ask.??

    As for@@@ Aussea..above...let me ask you this question..... Mexico had something like 20,000 drug related deaths last year..even just these four months in 2010...more than a hundred or more deaths of innocents...Do you hear of any travel advisories about Mexico? When Miami was a dangerous place to vacation in the 90's i did not hear all this furore about gun and violence anywhere..In most of America, and Europe...peadophiles are lurking around schools...and the these cases..get coverage in local news , but do you have travel agents inform on the real and wider dangers...No !! of course because the same people who own hotels in Mexico are probably the ones who own the media, and trying to discourage people from visiting african countries..I have heard nothing but positive feedback with most American college kids and people in general about their African vacations..so you can stay in the USA and Africa and South Africa will be.

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  • 193. At 11:27pm on 21 Apr 2010, aussea wrote:

    Mr Tshaka, of corse there are travel advisories to mexico, but they are no the MURDER capital of the world South Africa is , talk to me after the world cup . We will see who is safe ,my ass , in U S A or your in S A

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  • 194. At 09:00am on 22 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    kolobe @ 141: you must take into consideration how many South Africans have immegrated, taking their education and knowledge with them. I dont know offical figures as I am sure SA government woudl not want people to know but I would say a significant proportion have gone which would skew those stats to a very large degree.

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  • 195. At 3:59pm on 22 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    192 Tshaka

    Propaganda or history there is a difference? Propaganda is what the likes of Malema and Mugabe spew forth, history should examine the past and tell the story from both sides, and if you are only getting one version do some research, eg just how did the peaceful, happily assimilated tribes manage to be sold off by African leaders to Arab and white slave traders? You seem to be bent on justifying aggressive tribal behaviour as a happy marriage of agreement! If this were the case why is there 21st century conflict eg Kenya, Rwanda, and please before you come forth with the "blame the whites" propaganda think, visualise yourself going out daily with a machete to slaughter your own! Whites do have a poor history in Africa but that is only one side of the white story, next time you use electricity etc where did it come from? And IF it were so easy to provide colonialist stuff for all why haven't the ANC done so, why haven't they turned township schools into places of educational excellence? Be careful not to shoot yourself in the foot by buying into worthless propaganda, if it is difficult for the ANC to provide for all it was also difficult for the whites. A bit of a bitter pill to swallow but closer to the truth.

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  • 196. At 4:54pm on 22 Apr 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @Mr Richard: Whether they are thousands or millions please let them go. I think even the Government shall help them to get the one-way ticket if they can’t afford it. They have been given the best opportunity in South Africa, whites in South Africans are not been treat like how black South Africans were treated during the years of white power, Africans were forced to leaved the African country and those who remind behind were crushed by the white power.

    Whites now can do whatever they want freely and the Government has open all hands for them, and they still own over 85% of the wealth of the country which they got it in a very abusive ways, the laws of the country is not denying anyone any right as it was in apartheid time, South Africa have the best opportunities for anyone around the world, Cap town has just been chosen as the 6th best cities for men with so many opportunities, much better than Paris, Washington Rome and many whites cities around the world.

    But whites South Africans still want been carried everyway in the old ways like kings and queens. They still want have every right to abuse the Africans, they still want keep paying the African workers 0.1% of the income of their business; do you think if I am doing this to the Europeans living around me in France, do you think Sarkozy who don’t even want see his own Muslims Citizens live according to their faith, he could keep me here? If the Africans in the UK demand what whites are doing in South African what the BNP could do? Why some people are corrupt and enjoy playing double standards? Whites were not born with that education, they just had the chance and went to school and got it, so Africans can also do it, just gave them the chance and time.

    If whites South Africans or anyone from anyway in the world wants live in South Africa as every normal citizen respect everyone and be respected, then its their right to do so, and I am sure they will get more welcomes which we don’t get it anyway in the world. However, if they want keep the perfumes of Mr Eugene Terre'Blanche then I guess the new South Africa is the wrong place.

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  • 197. At 10:40pm on 22 Apr 2010, Scotican wrote:

    Why would anyone want to live in a country where the windows in homes are covered with iron bars? Why would anyone want to live in a country where discrimination is the norm? Why would anyone want to live in a country where your personal safety and that of your family's is under threat continuously? Why would anyone want to live in a country where poverty is absolute and not relative? Why would anyone want to live in a country where social needs are still only considered personal troubles and not public issues? Why?

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  • 198. At 05:25am on 23 Apr 2010, eenblanke wrote:

    I have always been amazed at "africans" talking about the huge continent as some unified political entity, a racially homogeneous Black Land, a true fiction that is! The North of Sahara desert has been historically a Berber and Arab ( Both Caucasoid race ) , the ancient Egyptians were certainly of the Caucasoid origin (most likely from Sumer ), whereas what is now South Africa have been empty except some very insignificant Khoi-Khoi and Hottentot populations until the 17th century when the colonizers descended from the opposites sides : Whites from the SW, Cape of Good hope and the Bantu from the NE (originating in the Lake Victoria region)..and the rest as they say is history..literally. However one small note must be added: The Republic of South Africa and South West Africa have been developed economically, financially, agriculturally, scientifically, technologically and industrially solely by the Whites: English and Afrikaans-speaking. That is ( I don't care how many songs you sing and how many dances you dance to protest it ) a fact. The complication came with the use of unskilled Black labor which was the beginning of the stream of Bantu tribal peoples into the White Republic of South Africa and after several decades , given high fertility rates of the latter created the problem of the urbanized and detribalized Black workers who made up a huge class later demanding enfranchising and one man one vote even though they were only temporary residents .i.e non-citizens of the RSA, that is again foreigners, only given a privilege to reside there in exchange for labor ,. RSA was originally and in every legal and constitutional sense a White country of which the Bantu made no part save of working in it. They were supposed to return to their Homelands after the contracts have expired. This whole mess that we have right now in SA is the consequence of these processes which were complicated and troublesome enough by themselves .This is what happened . One must draw conclusions based on these facts.

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  • 199. At 6:01pm on 23 Apr 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    The misguided « scotican » many, many and many people want lives in South Africa nor matter how much you & your morons would like to badmouth the country. i will suggest if you can read about something call “Homecoming Revolution” read about it and found out how many so-call ex- South Africans already return.

    in the same time you can help yourself to found out how many foreigners moved to South Africa since 1994 and since the bigots racists start departing.

    Lastly I would like you to do yourself a big fever and educated yourself, here in this link your blind eyes can get open and learn that on the top ten countries with high crimes in the world South Africa is NOT one of them http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-highest-reported-crime-rates.html

    and all are YOUR S-CALL WESTERN COUNTRIES. Are you going to tell me that there is nor one want live in these top ten? Most probably you are in one of them right now. In case if the MDS decides to remove the link, you can just Google “the top ten countries with high crime in the world. Until then.

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  • 200. At 11:08pm on 23 Apr 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    199 Mze-djimba

    Gosh! Unfortunately not the place to go for reliable information, for starters Iceland has a population of about 310,000 no where near the 14 million stated in the legend. Reasonably, why would Iceland have a high crime rate - besides maybe an erupting volcano's causing havoc - but Mother Nature a criminal!!

    A more reliable source of statistical information would be the United Nations, The World Bank, the IMF and a really good site NationMaster.

    Your general tone contradicts the objective of Homecoming Revolution which is to get the "racist bigots" to return "home" to South Africa!

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  • 201. At 03:49am on 24 Apr 2010, farmergeo wrote:

    Mr. Harding,
    Please follow up on this link:http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=172779&sn=Detail
    and set the record straight.
    Thank you.
    farmergeo

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  • 202. At 08:14am on 24 Apr 2010, oladiji wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 203. At 2:30pm on 24 Apr 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @200 Brenda: it’s right for anyone like you to reject many things but is disgrace to reject things just because is proving against you or your cronies. You prove to be mentally & intellectually corrupt. That website is not from me or South Africa or any African.

    Second, the UN, IMF and World Bank? Common you can’t be serious; are you talking about the biggest blood suckers of the poorest of the world? What is the good from any of your institution besides destroying the second and third world?

    For the 60 years they exist did they ever provide any reliable thing? Do you think to provide licence call “veto” to the top five criminals in the world and let them go away with their evil actions; do you think that is reliable? The so-call UN is nothing than a EUNUCH office which controlled by five big whites sharks or lions which only grows by drinking the blood of the poor, better you wakeup. Thank you so much “201farmergeo”

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  • 204. At 10:06pm on 24 Apr 2010, Scotican wrote:

    @ Mze-djimba..... would it help if the questions were numbered as you appear to think you addressed them? These are the sort of questions all South Africans need to ask their elected officials. Surely once a government assumes full responsibility for all welfare concerns then it can truly call itself democratic?

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  • 205. At 01:42am on 26 Apr 2010, eenblanke wrote:

    Just found this on Nature site: Black Africans do not have the Neanderthal genes unlike Whites and Asians and Polynesians. There is your solution!

    http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100420/full/news.2010.194.html

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  • 206. At 8:32pm on 26 Apr 2010, Simpletruth wrote:

    @Mze-djimba. With respect, what's the point of arguing for the sake of it. In order to find those unbelievably distorted crime figures you posted, before telling someone else to "do yourself a big fever and educated yourself" you must have trawled through countless websites showing figures which are infinately more accurate.

    For the record, i don't agree with Scotican completely, i think that South Africa is an incredible place, with a lot to offer. However, his sentiment will be echoed by many great people who would benefit South Africa's growth.

    The country is run by a short sited, fairly racist government who are very unlikely to take South Africa in the direction it rightly deserves to go in.
    People are so busy looking backwards in order to find excuses for their current lack of progress that they are completely incapable of seeing, and therefore solving todays problems.

    The illustration above where you sprouted absolute nonsense as fact is exactly what is happening across the country in the political realms on a daily basis. It's embarrasing actuially.

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  • 207. At 2:42pm on 28 Apr 2010, Richard wrote:

    199. At 6:01pm on 23 Apr 2010, Mze-djimba

    You need to wake up boetie. Seriously, you talk about white foreigners flocking to SA, those Europeans etc have all already made their money in Europe (Where it remains I might add) and now they come to SA becasue it is infinitly more affordable and so they can retire early. If Sh++t hits the fan they will leave, allon the first planes to the next cheap 3rd world country that will have them.

    You interestingly added a link to the top 10 countries world wide on REPORTED crime statisitcs. On brief inspection of the list I noted that ALL the counrties were white countries. All of these countries have got mature and advanced systems and strategys for recording crimes I.E. their police force WORKS. Notice and respect that comment, SA is riddled with incompetenct and stupid people in positions of power. I totally agree with eenblanke and scotian. these are clever people with realistic perspectives. Black people are riding the crest of a wave that is going crash all around them one of these days and when it is all over and the wave has crashed and broken and you get spat out on the beach wondering what happened it will dawn on you and you will realise that SA is just another african country destined for failure. Like all the rest.

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  • 208. At 8:10pm on 28 Apr 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @Richard: Maybe I shall not reword you on your garbage by any response, but for the benefit of the public I have to clarify something. Nor NGO or Government in the world have dispute with any branch of the current South African Government or any South African law enforcement agency. They rank one of the best in the world up to the time I am talking here. However, everyone have to make different between serious & fair people who are looking for fact and uneducated, misguide, racist, lairs and bigots people like the ones I am dealing with here.

    You guys are drives by blatant hatred and I guess that will keep increasing because South Africa is growing better and better from 1994 up to now, rust like you and your gangs keep flying out and South Africa keep raising, and that is what pissed you off.

    The list or link I gave you, it comes from NGO which South Africa have nothing to do with it, in every statistics in the world you see South Africa there, whether these statistics are gather by NGO or Government and nor one complain about the ways South Africa run its intuitions.

    You misguided talking about failure? Look at what is going on around you about the so-call “PIGS” Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain, (the pigs name was given by Mr lyndon larouche NOT me) do you know what is going on right now in these countries? Did you followed what your so-call masters of the world did last year in their countries and then into the whole world? THAT IS THE FAILURE YOU MESSINFOM ARROGANT. With the thousands of tons of gold & diamonds you plunder in Africa but you still getting in that trouble and owing China and the Arabs trillions.

    Africa is behind is not because of the lies your media keep saying about Africa or the corruption which you well knows that America and Europe is much drown on the real corruption than any other nation in the world, but Africa is behind because of the injustice policies your blood sucker banks restrict to the Africans. When your thugs mismanaged your economy you were able to print non existing money and call it “bailout the rich”, but if it was African country got in that mess no such right could be allow.

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  • 209. At 6:03pm on 29 Apr 2010, eenblanke wrote:

    wow, talking about a brain washed Mugabe fanatic here. He reminds me of these guys back home chanting how great the USSR was, how everything is getting better despite the imperialist efforts of America, how all the blame rests on its enemies and spies. All this pseudo educational verbiage he keeps spewing.lol..a true ANC lemming, this guy!

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  • 210. At 6:21pm on 01 May 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @eenblanke: you the one who been brainwashed and keep stark on the old evil of your USSR fathers who were corrupted enough not even recognised any other human beings beside them in someone else’s lands. The time your corrupt fathers were running the country to hell, they never knew the word democracy or freedom, they only knew dictatorship and how to abuse anyone who don’t look like them, and anyone dare to talk to them on their evil action he was crushed very bad and the wooded body thrown into jails for 27 years or more, those are the lucky ones but most of those who talk against your fathers today we don’t even know where is their graves.

    Your mind stark on that cruel system and now you can’t even adopt the new system call democracy the Africans introduce to the country. Keep in mind that the time your so-call civilized nations are mulling on how to dictate on what piece of cloths can be worn and cannot, the faith is acceptable and the ones which are not welcome into your so-call civilized country the Africans are telling you that you can do whatever you want and can worship to any devil you want.

    the time your so-call civilized nations are forcing anyone who lives in their country to give-up everything and adopt every inch of the culture of the host country and talk no language beside the one official language in these countries the Africans are tells you that you are free to talk your language even in the African parliament.

    When you understand that you lived and make big money in these countries which clearly you don’t like the native owner of the land and in the same time nearly every African speak one or two of your languages while you don’t speak ours your shall double check the meaning civilize and human right. Who lives with USSR mind?

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  • 211. At 04:13am on 04 May 2010, eenblanke wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 212. At 4:10pm on 04 May 2010, Norman Conquest wrote:

    @ 210 Mze-djimba, how can you rile against Europe and America and yet in the same breath repeat all those old evil Western lies about the USSR?

    Did you forget who helped get rid Africa of colonizers?

    Who came to the defense of Patrice Lumumba (murdered by the CIA), who helped Robert Mugabe (the Robert Mugabe of old -- Robert Mugabe the noblest & and most humane freedom fighter and not what he has become now). Who helped kick the Brits out of the continent?

    Keep your gnarly hands off the USSR and think a bit next time you want to post more of your dimwitted garbage.

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  • 213. At 10:47am on 10 May 2010, Richard wrote:

    @ 210. At 6:21pm on 01 May 2010, Mze-djimba

    All I know is that without the civilized west, Africa would be Africa, mud huts, drought, famine and a cruel African sun beating down on a treeless land.

    Mze-djimba, mark my words, its not the west you need to be wary of, its the east before long Africa will yearn for the days of the humane and the just colonials when china buldozes your lands and takes it all away.

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  • 214. At 3:26pm on 10 May 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @richard: Since we saw what you did in your countries in what you call WWII and just recently you manage to do in the ex-rich and well build Iraq then we all are worry about you.

    What are you talking about? Do you think there will be any bad, cruel and rogue nation with such arrogant and corrupt mindset grow- up with vampire behaviour like the white European nation??? For sure there will not!!! And probably you guys don’t understand the extent of your corruption most probably because you are the heirs of the criminals, thugs like Cecil John Rhodes and I know it because I am the heirs of victims.

    My forefathers were the first victims of your crooks and chauvinist so-call leaders, I know that in Kimberley only, your looters plunder over 5 Wheelbarrows of diamonds, I know that these blood diamonds are the ones makes England the financial centre of the world, and Kimberly one of the poorest in the world. So Mr Harding is right to go there and keep mocking them how poor they are.

    I know that the discovery of places like Kimberley is the motive drive your fathers to Africa particularly Southern Africa, And I know that if these diamonds were invest in Africa for the benefit of those Africans who lives around, nor African could be dying on the sea trying to reach Europe today. Not only Southern Africa but place like Liberia, Sierra Leone DRC etc, everywhere there is minerals your signs are there.(Please take some time to read the two books: 1 the Whiteman’s burden 2 Democracy kills)

    With all of the evil you did in Africa by exporting the Africans as slaves into your countries and then abusing the rest to dig gold and diamonds for you, you still don’t want see an African in your Europe which were build by the slave labour of my fathers and financed by the natural sources from my continent. Do you think China could do worse than that? Can’t be. You travel all over Africa with no visa but you don’t know how to payback good deeds, but for sure time will come which you are going to.

    If you travel anywhere in Africa, right from Algeria to South Africa, and from Ghana to Madagascar, for the last 500 years you were there you did nothing to be seen today beside a small temporary ports were you can transport Africa minerals to Europe.

    You destroy these nations, their culture, languages and traditions; you took their everything, and only gave them a corrupt bible and forced them into drugs & alcohol. You can see what China is doing in Africa in the few years he is there, he is at least building stadiums, roads, hospitals, monuments and airports etc; things you intentionally failed to do for five hundreds years.

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  • 215. At 2:51pm on 14 May 2010, Richard wrote:

    214. At 3:26pm on 10 May 2010, Mze-djimba

    You do make me laugh how you spit your poisonous slander about the white man. African people will ALWAYS be victims until they can rise above their own shortcomings and be proud people willing to reshape their own future. Africa will blame everything under the sun before they accept responsibility for their themselves. Africa has had the keys to their future for a long time but they cannot drive and when they do they crash the car. Europe do not want Africans in europe because on the whole (From a broad high level societal point of view) they bring crime, and standards down. Go visit the jungle in the port of Calais in France, go look around the ifel tower at night. Paris is drowning with nigerians and other african tribes, the place is unsafe, it stinks of urine and people who go there are starting to be turned off.

    On the diamond front!!! Why didnt African people take the diamonds out the ground? If it wasnt for Europeans Africans wouldnt even know that a thing called a diamond exisits. To call Cecil John Rhodes a criminal thug shows me just how twisted by resentment and hate you are. Cecil John Rhodes was a visionary, a scholar and an academic par excellance. Africa has no such people besides Nelson.......

    THe only reason we dont need visas to travel in Africa is because the boarder crossings are so riddled with crime and corrution that you have to pay brides to the officals to let you through or face standing in queues that are so long. This is becase there is no pride. Its about living for the moment and taking what you can right now and to hell with tomorrow.

    One last point to add, South African infrustructure was build on resources like diamonds and gold. You drive on beautiful roads because visionaries like cecil John Rhodes dedicated his life largly to south Africa. His legend and his legacy will live on for generations. Maybe you need to stop playing the victim, Show some respect to those who gave you what you now enjoy, bury the past and move on with your life in the new south africa which is giving you more now than you ever dreamed possible.

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  • 216. At 11:49am on 15 May 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @Richard "215" At 2:51pm on 14 May 2010.

    I am must start by telling you how disapointed I am for talking with such human who is habouring such mindset which even doesn’t allow him to sense on what he is saying before he post it. It’s so sad and bogle the mind to see you trying to tell people to addmite their faluiares but you faild mesarably to addmite the evil of your so-called virsionaries.

    The sparkbl atrocities which has been well recorded by many, many writers who looks like you and shared the same benefits you are getting from the loot of your fathers.

    You seems so misinformed or intentionally blind and would like to throw darst to the eyes of those who want found the routs your leaders took to be come rich. There are so many informations avalebl for you to open your eyes if you are serious, and the two books I told you are still frech, and I wish if you can start there.

    For you to say “Africa will always be Africa……” What you mean? I will advice you look at the development Africans had before the THUGS arrived, you can read from both Africans and your skin color writers “but the fair onse” you can see the truth before Europeans arrived in Africa. Here I will show you just two places.

    If you do some reseach about an African place named “Timbuktu” and foundout the level of education and real visionaries they had and what Europe had at the same time, and then read how much the Europeans tried to go there and then learn what they did when they arrived, if you are a true human bieg you could say; what had been done to Timbuktu by the Europeans is a tragedy not only to the Africans & Africa but to the entire human race. Before you do your own reseach allow me to tell you that it’s simply the first place had University for high and very advance studies on a subjects your fathers didn’t even knew the names.

    Experts agreed that nearly 5% of what happened in the African place is known today and if you go to the public own & made Wikipedia you can have an idea on what Timbuktu was. In the same time if you lives in America or Europe you should be well know how your media and your intelectuals alienate, distort and misrepresent the name of the place leave alone how much they tried to hid what they looted.

    Read some truth about the place and see what is your THUGS did there. The second place I would like ask you to read about is “Mapungubwe” try to read what kind of systems they had compare to the time and your self-award to be civilized nation. please don’t rely only on white written because most of them are corrupt & fault on such topics and of course to hid and deny your crime is sing of a genius in todays’s world, you even have right to hire a law specialist to help you

    For someone who never knew the old and good powefull iraq but only knows the new Bush-Bremer’s iraq which we all can see on your CNN and BBC, could you confess any innocent person like that that there were a old iraq which 20 years ago was selseficet on everthing and fought with the bigest
    43 countries in the world? Today the new iraq is short of everything and hire even security guards from oveseas.

    The bigest fraud and injustice done to the Africans is done on the finance and the ways the world bank and IMF manupilate the African afaires via the fake french-african francs and UK-US dollares.

    Concern to the point of africans forcus on the future and only trust their hard works; well, that is what always happen and happening right now, but the africans use to be deny the right of their sweats, payed less, which is mean of dipendind on bagging or doing crime to survive while you are working extremlly hard day & night. I have so many examples to show you but I am rushing. please read about the coffe farmers in Eithiopia cocoa farmers in ivory cost and Ghana.(please google an article writen by M&G years ago)

    If you look at the ANC they are not paying much attention to the past. Start from Mandela, he unconditionaly forgive everyone and Mbeki said so many times that we only have to trust and forcus on ourselvs. Last week Zuma told the Country to stop complaining about the evil aparthied your fathers manufectured with knowing that the present is because of the past and for sure the future is in the hands of the present.

    Concern to your view on the Africans with these very peti crimes in europe,if you look at the atrocities your fathers did in whole over africa, there is no comparison of the two. by the way, do you know what your fathers stole in Ethiopia? You will laugh if you know that.

    And with all of this, knowing that you don’t leave anything behind, you clean everything, but africans still allows you into their countries. I think there should be a general ban of any white skin person from going into any african country because you cannot be trusted. You create hatred, wars and havoac in every community you enter in order to have a chance to steal. And I am sure the shia/suni issue in iraq can be enough for you.

    Last; if Rhodes was sent to Southen Africa by a croup/s of gangisters or empire and yet he managed to build his empire which today you can see, and he did that on his salary only, then guess what his boss/s have.

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  • 217. At 7:21pm on 15 May 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @Richard 215. At 2:51pm on 14 May 2010. (if this is going to be allow)

    I must start by telling you how disapoint I am for talking with such human who have such mindset which even doesn’t allow him to sense on what he is saying before he post it. It’s so sad and bogle the mind to see you trying to tell people to addmite their faluiares but you faild mesarably to addmite the evil of your so-called virsionaries.

    The sparkbl atrocities which has been well recorded by many, many writers who looks like you and shared the same benefits you are getting from the loot of your fathers.

    You seems so misinformed or intentionally blind and would like to throw darst to the eyes of those who want found the routs your leaders took to be come rich. There are so many informations avalebl for you to open your eyes if you are serious, and the two books I told you are still frech, and I wish if you can start there.

    For you to say “Africa will always be Africa……” What you mean? I will advice you look at the development Africans had before the THUGS arrived, you can read from both Africans and your skin color writers “but the fair onse” you can see the truth before Europeans arrived in Africa. Here I will show you just two places.

    If you do some reseach about the African place named “Timbuktu” and foundout the level of education and real visionaries they had and what Europe had at the same time, and then read how much the Europeans tried to go there and then learn what they did when they arrived, if you are a true human bieg you could say; what had been done to Timbuktu by the Europeans is a tragedy not only to the Africans & Africa but to the entire human race. Before you do your own reseach allow me to tell you that it’s simply the first place had University.

    Experts agreed that nearly 5% of what happened in the African place is known today and if you go to the public own & made Wikipedia you can have an idea on what Timbuktu was. In the same time if you lives in America or Europe you should be well know how your media and your intelectuals alienate, distort and misrepresent the name of the place leave alone how much they tried to hid what they looted.

    Read some truth about the place and see what is your THUGS did there. The second place I would like ask you to read about is “Mapungubwe” try to read what kind of systems they had compare to your fathers. please don’t rely only on white written because most of them are corrupt & fault on such topics and of course to hid and deny of your crimes is sing of a genius in todays’s world, you even have right to hire a law specialist to help you

    For someone who never knew the old and good powefull iraq but only knows the new Bush-Bremer’s iraq which we all can see on your CNN and BBC, could you confess any innocent person like that that there were a old iraq which 20 years ago was selseficente on everthing and fought with the bigest
    43 countries in the world? Today the new iraq is short of everything and hire even security guards from oveseas.

    The bigest fraud and injustice done to the Africans is done on the finance and the ways the world bank and IMF manupilate the African afaires via the fake french-african francs and UK-US dollares.

    Concern to the point of africans forcus on the future and only trust their hard works; well, that is what always happen and happening right now, but the africans use to be deny the right of their sweats, payed less, which is mean of dipendind on bagging or doing crime to survive while you are working extremlly hard day & night. I have so many examples to show you but I am rushing. please read about the cofee farmers in Eithiopia, cocoa farmers in ivory cost and Ghana.(please google an article writen by M&G years ago)

    If you look at the ANC they are not paying much attention to the past. Start from Mandela, he unconditionaly forgive everyone and Mbeki said so many times that we only have to trust and forcus on ourselvs. Last week Zuma told the Country to stop complaining about the evil aparthied your fathers manufectured with knowing that the present is because of the past and for sure the future is in the hands of the present.

    Concern to your view on the Africans with these very peti crimes in europe,if you look at the atrocities your fathers did in the whole over africa throughout the last hundrads years, there is no comparison of the two. by the way, do you know what was stolen in Etheopia? You will laugh if you know that.

    And with all of this, knowing that you don’t leave anything behind, you clean everything, but africans still allows you into their countries. I think there should be a general ban of any white skin person from going to any african country because you cannot be trusted. You create hatred, wars and havoac in every community you enter in order to have a chance to steal. And I am sure the shia/suni issue in iraq can be enough for you.

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  • 218. At 11:42am on 16 May 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    To all member of the forum and the puplic at large!!! i am very sorry for the double post on the comments 216-217. what happend up there is that after few minuts of my 216 comment i saw it was removed, it was “referred to the moderators” so I thought to edite few things and repost it, and now after few hours I see the moderator decide to releace it to the public, that is why they are 2 comments

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  • 219. At 8:33pm on 16 May 2010, Richard wrote:

    218. At 11:42am on 16 May 2010, Mze-djimba wrote

    I understand why Africa feels untoward with Europe. Its hatered, I get it. Africa has nothing to attack Europe with other than hatered. Its the same the world over.

    Africa sat in the dust sharpening spears and singing around the fire and left EVERYTHING to europe.
    Europe invented:(In no particular order)
    - the wheel
    - electricity
    - global economies
    - Guns (Which fuel your wars)
    - industry
    - the light bulb
    - the inturnal combustion engine
    - physics
    - scientific logic
    - Developed critical thinking
    - Developed effective government (democracy)
    - Hubble telescope
    - Gas turbines
    - Lawn mower
    - Steam power
    - Jet engines
    - computers
    - Cell phones
    - submarines
    - telegraph
    - Microwave oven
    - tractors
    - Helicopters
    - thermometers
    - barometers
    - TV
    Etc

    So Eurpoe did all this......and then brought it all to africa for you to enjoy, and then gave you a complete system with all of this, including jobs for your people....and you still complain.

    You sound jealous...

    Tell me Mze-djimba, what has africa done beside given us rap music.

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  • 220. At 8:57pm on 16 May 2010, Richard wrote:

    217. At 7:21pm on 15 May 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    Another point, African tribes have been killing and erradicating each other for eons. Since records began. (and may I add that white missionaries etc have been there as a benevolent force providing safety, compassion and aid all along, Cleaning up the mess)

    So with all this hate for your own kind and genocide, ruthlessness on your own, killing, torture etc, you dont see anything wrong with that?

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  • 221. At 10:17pm on 17 May 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 222. At 2:20pm on 18 May 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @Richard 219_220: Jealousy and hatred? From who to who? Common please be real and stop been ridiculous. You seem so ignorant and making yourself fool over the world. You have nothing to say so better SHUT UP and stop posting nonsense here and wasting our time. You can see that all of your team now is silence because they learnt what they didn’t knew about the jobs of your mugger fathers and how your countries got rich.

    I am the one who should say you are jealousy of the beautiful weather & natural resource of Africa and you have a blunted hatred to the Africans that is why you keep killing them on various ways and keep plundering their wealth on a massive scale. You lived in Africa for hundreds of years and instead of you learning their languages and traditions you destroyed it while in the same time you want everyone lives in Europe to learn yours.

    You are talking about Africans using your made guns? It’s mean you are telling us that you never went school and don’t know one of the traditions and rituals of your fathers, you don’t know about WWI & WWII. Over 60 millions of human beings men, women and kids died in the hands of your cruel fathers you ignorant, all of your inspired wars in Africa never reach 1% of those your fathers direct killed in Europe. Do you still keeping WMDS for each other?

    Did you read about Timbuktu and saw what it was and then saw what your then impolite fathers did? Did you saw how the ignorance of your fathers robed the world that wealth of knowledge which was developed by the Africans? do i have to tell you when you did such thing like that in place like Iraq in the first time you attacked there over 300 years ago?

    I am sorry to tell you that history told us that your fathers and you invent nothing beside the ways of killings and sophisticated ways of dishonesties. Even the digits are not from you, the Arabs are the ones developed the numbers and now you claim it. If you leant history you could not lied about yourself and claims these things you put up there.

    And since you still blind and trying to boost up on a falsehood bubble calls economy then I will suggest for you a third book named “SUPERCLASS”. If you know what your crooks did in the last few years and the ways they lied and then rundown the economy of the world you could not boost yourself for super crooks like Bernard Madoff and the thousands like him who still have to go to prison forever.

    If you know that you build your empires on falsehood and now is coming down then I am sure you could not be proud of that. and also you should know that the doggy policies which gave the chance only to your crooks to deceive & mislead the world but the Africans are strictly control and monitored by your vampire white sharks. You took over other people’s innovations on everything. Even Catholicism, which today you are using it on everything even on abusing the weakest and most vulnerable, the ones should be protected now become your latest victims, the kids and women are been raped daily by the Church which keep promising heaven but providing hell. do you know how the head of the Catholic church came to Rome? You stole it from someway, do some research please.

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  • 223. At 3:10pm on 18 May 2010, Richard wrote:

    Mze-djimba

    Your right mate, I see it all so clearly now. Europe are the white devils.

    You know what would be the best thing is for Africa to rid itself of all european people and anything that represents them. Ditch the lot mate. No more tar roads, no more vorsrung deutch technic, no more gucci no more prada, no more cape winelands. No more open water ports.

    Zimbabwe here we come.

    You can be president.......

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  • 224. At 11:45am on 20 May 2010, badvocate wrote:

    Malema no Mr Harding is much more like Joseph Stalin,you see he fights for the supposed 'good' ending racism etc yet goes about doing the exact opposite.Stalin did the same he chalked up quite a score too againgst Adolf and his new Germany,oddly enough at the end Stalin had just as many mass graves uncomfortable sure but just the cost of victory.So too with Malema,Terblanche - unfortunate,British press expelled - unfortunate,a murder rate rate equal to Baghdad - unfortunate,aiding and abedting Robert Mugabe - unfortunate!Speaking up againgst current ruler well that cost him a rally with his pals who put up the paltry sum of Ten thousand Rand for him, God forbid he pay that would be UNFORTUNATE!
    I'd say he got lucky your mild little insinuation is proof that you can stir a genocide in front of the world press and everyone will be discussing how nice the weather is!

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  • 225. At 01:13am on 03 Jun 2010, kaydenpat wrote:

    What is the big deal if a White racist is killed? What are White racists doing in South Africa, a predominantly Black AFRICAN country anyways? Why is South Africa allowing such people to stay in their country and openly express hatred against the majority population?

    They need to leave and go back to Europe where they belong with their nonsense and vitriol. Since they cannot stand Black people, let them go to countries with no Black people. Good riddance.

    Good luck to Black South Africans and others who want to live in peace. I have no sympathy for racists and am surprised that the new South Africa is tolerating such miscreants.

    As a Jamaican, I would love to visit South Africa (as many of my friends have done), but I am not interested in spending money in a country where racist Whites still feel so comfortable.

    And to the White racists posting here, please leave South Africa -- go elsewhere (don't come here to the States though) where you can be happy with "your own kind".


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  • 226. At 2:06pm on 03 Jun 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 227. At 5:50pm on 03 Jun 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 228. At 6:54pm on 03 Jun 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    To brenda07: i am very sorry for what is going on to all of your comments. However, i don’t want enter into the argument between you and kaydenpat as I am sure the debate does not need me and I can see that he/she is handling you well. I just Want ask like you (Brenda07) but myself I am directing my question to Mr Andrew Harding: I see some entire article and all comments in your blog has been removed why? One of the articles which were removed it had over 32 comments but now suddenly all is disappear, does it mean you never thought twice before you wrote your articles?

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  • 229. At 9:01pm on 03 Jun 2010, Brenda07 wrote:

    228 Mze-djimba

    My main issue with kaydenpat was his opening comment. Further, I am tired of the endless accusations with regard to whites, en mass, continually being called racist and being blamed for every conceivable problem in Africa. I think carefully before commenting, however I do not beat about the bush. Actually, this is a blessing in disguise as I have other things with which to occupy my time. We no longer subscribe to daily newspapers and I thought this type of media interaction would be an alternative, I was wrong it upsets me.

    By the way, thanks for asking!

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  • 230. At 5:45pm on 04 Jun 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    Seems like this was your last comment here but I would like you to understand that we are not witch-hunting whites, I am talking fact and things which destroyed the lives of millions of humans likes you and your whites families.

    Not only your people destroy the Africans physically via whites made laser bombs like AIDS but you killed Africans mentally, economically, educational etc. For the unspeakable things your Europeans did to the Africans on every field it won’t be reparable.

    However, I guess there are few things you can try like start telling yourself to change the white behaviour. You can see that with all of what you did in South Africa for hundreds of years but you still see Africans feel ready to live with you, so try to over come your unaccepted attitudes. And also keep in mind that since you did evil for five hundreds years then it need over another five hundreds years to wipe the wounds of these painful years.

    Nearly every African you will meet he or she will smile at you while nearly every white scowl the face to the Africans. Every time we go into your countries we speak your languages while you are in our countries for hundreds of years not even a word of our languages. You even force us to forget our languages in our countries and impose yours. When the word civilizes should be the one who can improve himself to adopt the life and culture of the people and community he lives in and be able to deal with anyone nor matter what differences they have, you manage to tell us that civilisation is the one who speak European language.

    I will not go as far as telling you to leave Africa as you are telling us to leave Europe (all over Europe you have immigrant-terrorist Governments) but I would like to see the introduction of a proper laws which will make compulsory for anyone who lives there in Africa to learn and use African language & culture full time, and those who don’t want then they shall have the option to pack up and leave as Africans are oblige all over Europe. You rob Africans their self-esteems and right to be human.

    You devalue everything on us you even called us subhuman. If you look at the African countries which were colonized by the French all they been forced to use currency call “francs” the name only can be enough for you to explain the meaning.

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  • 231. At 1:11pm on 07 Jun 2010, Englishman_in_Jozzi wrote:

    @ 230. Mze-djimba

    Just in case you didn't know (but more likely you just don't care)

    Zuma himself said that the Afrikaans People are a true African Tribe with their own culture and language.

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  • 232. At 4:11pm on 07 Jun 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 233. At 4:25pm on 07 Jun 2010, Englishman_in_Jozzi wrote:

    Hold the line caller @ Mze-djimba,

    you are contridicting yourself here, you say how you dont want the "Europeans" to be allowed to speak their language in Africa yet in the next breath you condemn European governments for putting your own views in to practice.

    What is good for the goose must also be good for the gander, you cant and wont have everything your way and once you get used to this fact then I am sure you will be a happier person.

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  • 234. At 4:33pm on 07 Jun 2010, Englishman_in_Jozzi wrote:

    As for my user name it only suggests my gender, my country of citizenship and my current location. It is your narrow mindedness who has attached skin colour to it.

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  • 235. At 5:15pm on 07 Jun 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 236. At 7:53pm on 07 Jun 2010, Mze-djimba wrote:

    @Englishman: It could not be any better than this!!! To be reminded this by you a person whom your chosen name can tell the colour of the person. Yes I am aware of the view of Mr Zuma and also I know that he is not alone on this view, his predecessors Mandela & Mbeki preached & acted on the same view.

    However, I would like you Mr Englishman to write an open latter to your English & French current politicians who are abusing their powers and oppressing the minorities in their countries by forcing the minorities to be only full time French or English and 100% Europeans or risk rejection and deportations.

    Write to Geert Wilders, and his alike and tell them to STOP the crazy white attitude. Tell them how much the Africans respect you and accept you as you are nor matter what weird Eugene Terre'blanche-perfume you wear

    I am in France now, and here you see thousands if not millions of first generation of African and Arab origins who don’t have any language or tradition beside French, and yet, now those who are Muslims are going to be force by law to abandon their religion and been dictate on how and what to wear and not, how to pray and what faith they can and cannot follow, what is accepted and not accepted in France.

    So Mr proudly Englishman in Africa; if you carry your arrogant name in Africa and your leaders are behaving like this, how the Africans should behave then? I have to tell you again that I am praying for the days I am going to see all educational system all over South Africa going to be on African language/s. I am expecting in the next 25-50 years upward to see whites in Africa who don’t know any European language. They must learn or leave full stop.

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