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Covering all the angles

Jeremy Hillman Jeremy Hillman | 11:00 UK time, Wednesday, 8 October 2008

The news of today's banking rescue by Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown has produced near meltdown in one place - the BBC's business and economics unit.

Alistair Darling and Gordon BrownThe number of angles on this story from a business and economic perspective are huge and we're scrabbling to try and unscramble what it all means.

It's also triggered a huge inflow of e-mails asking what it means for you? Should you buy/sell/hold bank shares? Should you move money between accounts? Will this mean it's easier to get a mortgage or loan now? What about your pensions?

Your questions are really helping us to focus our coverage and pointing us in some interesting directions. We'll be trying to answer some of your questions in a special edition of Working Lunch on BBC2 at 1.30pm today presented by Declan Curry and Naga Munchetty.

If you can't catch it live please do watch it later on the iPlayer or log onto Declan's Working lunch blog. But above all please keep your questions and points coming and we'll do our best to investigate and answer them.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    What in God's name is A D playing at? While refusing to underwrite all savings in UK bank accounts, he immediately guarantees ALL deposits in a foreign bank!

    These investors placed money in Icesave because it was offering higher interest rates than could be obtained in UK banks. It is fairly obvious that this action carries a greater risk.

    Is he now going to guarantee all deposits in ICICI, a Nigerian institution that competed with Icesave for the best rates? Or maybe his intention is to guarantee deposits in all FOREIGN banks while leaving the UK exposed!!

    Charity begins at home!

  • Comment number 2.

    Why are some banks being saved and others allowed to go to the wall.

  • Comment number 3.

    Jeremy your still spinning this theft. Why you are not telling people that we are entering a period of economic fascism, why are you not telling people that the oncoming depression is by design. It has been planned and organised and implemented with purpose.

    We are headed for a depression that will be more similar to the 14th centuary than the 20's. You have turned a blind eye to each stage of the set up for this. They stopped the M3 index, you said nothing, They flooded the market with liquidity, you said it would help (when it is equivocal to throwing fuel on the fire)

    I will tell you now that the ftse will fall to around 2,000 and the dow to around 4,000. The people will be economic slaves, and the control of our economy will be in the complete hands of the very few at the very top.

    I have been rattleing on about this all happening for a good year now.

    Start telling the people the true extent of what is to come so that they can prepare for their families survival. After the economic collapse will come a fight for food. People need to be warned of this. It should be your job to do this, you have the platform.

    Please stop spinning what is going on for the benefit of the Central banks.

  • Comment number 4.

    Go! Attack the issues as best you can and avoid bland quaotation!

  • Comment number 5.

    "What in God's name is A D playing at? While refusing to underwrite all savings in UK bank accounts, he immediately guarantees ALL deposits in a foreign bank!"

    Darling CANNOT underwrite all savings in UK banks. Last estimate I saw was 1 trillion pounds. Thats nearly 2 years total tax revenue for the UK. if all our banks went bust the treasury could not cover the bill. He's having to rescue Icesave customers because the Icelandic authorities can't pay for their own commitments.

  • Comment number 6.

    Now that the Banks are being re-capitalised and substantial additional funds being made available for inter-bank lending we all want them to get on with it. However, the operatives who know how to do the job are just those people whom we think have beem grossly overpaid previously. They wont agree to earn LOWER COMMISSIONS in difficult conditions so we must not be surprised at their inaction to start interbank lending for lower pay than they have benn used to

  • Comment number 7.

    Jeremy,

    It is really worrying that you moderated my comment. More so because i am guessing it means there was truth in what i said, Which scares the hell out of me.

    I will try it one point at a time so i can find the part that required censoring. (sorry i believe the newsspeak for it is moderating)

    1. This crash has been organised and designed to happen and you only have to ask yourself why they stopped publishing the M3 index if you are looking for evidence.

    Lets see if that is the offending statement

  • Comment number 8.

    and comment 3 returns. Thank you.

  • Comment number 9.

    I'm very curious to see what the BBC has to say about Hank Reardon's comments.

    I don't actually agree with him but it would be curious to see how BBC tentatively replies to thoughts like that.

    For me, the Beeb's reporting is at best, weak and mostly used to influence the public.

    Now, for a chance, can we focus on the economic affect on the people and what regular people need to prepare for instead of telling us where the super rich are losing their money?

    Us, lower classes don't give two hoots for the super rich who don't care for us and don't help us.

    The lower and middle classes also make up the majority in this country and I'm almost certain we'd like more practical articles to help us prepare solid, financial structures.

  • Comment number 10.

    Cheers Krudley

    They normally just ignore me and i am essentially ranting to myself.

    I know most disagree with me, but that was also the case last year when i said there would be a banking collapse. I was told i was being fantastic then too.

    It's not hard to know whats going to happen, you just have to read what the Banking elites of this world say they are going to do. They are happy to publish their plans, safe in the knowledge that the few who read them will be ignored by the masses who don't.

  • Comment number 11.

    its the dynamic duo to the rescue of there good friends the bankers, a hollywood script no just our overly media friendly PM and company.
    you can see that this government is bailing out interests of there own and the rest of us can suffer, they use our tax money to feather there retirement funds and the cover it by claiming they are helping, there kind of help the good people of this country realy can do without.
    do they think the whole population is stupid.
    if they do then they realy do think they are above the rules and untouchable.
    when this crisis deepens what are they going to do then are they going to use more of our tax money to patch things up or will they capitulate like so many governments before them leaving with good healthy bank balancies.
    they should have nationalised essential resources and the banks long before now but still they wont becouse it would annoy there european bosses.

  • Comment number 12.

    Well this really takes the p**s, here we have banks who for years have been hitting us with extortionist bank charges and merciless foreclosures now being given our tax revenue so that they can loan it back to us and we will have to pay interest for borrowing our own moneys. YOU COULDNT MAKE IT UP!!!!!!!

  • Comment number 13.

    wot rimes with bankers ?

  • Comment number 14.

    #10. Can you perhaps tell me why the banking elite apparently want to commit mass professional suicide?

    The fact you predicted a banking collapse last year means nothing. People have been predicting this since Das Kapital was written. If I start each day saying 'today I'm going to die' then eventually I'll be right... its hardly proof of any mystic powers. The economy goes into meltdown evry 20 or 30 years. Given the huge amount of personal & corporate debt everyone was carrying and the fact that it was mostly based on the nominal value of houses its hardly suprising that some lenders are out of their depth. What it doesn't mean is that we're entering the dark ages anymore than it did in the late 20's, the late 70's or the early 90's.

  • Comment number 15.

    #3.

    Hank writes the best summary of what is an immoral and evil trenchant by the antichrist that banking has become. The new world order preparing us all for the biggest punches we are ever likely to face and they will not stop raining in even when we are down and out.

    I am sick and tired of financial "experts". They didn't see this coming despite all the warnings. They didn't raise doubts about all the "none" money entering the marketplace. They didn't mention that we cannot exist as a service economy. They didn't mention the failure of the regulatory authorities in energy, fuel and communications etc.

    We are now suffering the full blast of Maggie's so called "me, me, me" society where nobody matters unless they have disposable income. It is isn't pleasant; it cannot be justified; and you shouldn't be trying to suggest that your advice counts for anything other than a short term outcome.

    We need a long term strategy that never again puts the people at the mercy of the few - but that will take a revolution and people need to be given cold facts to make them revolt.

  • Comment number 16.

    Peter,

    It is the central banks who are have perpetuated all this and by no means are they commiting mass suicide. They are instead able to now buy up assets and commodities at knock down prices. As the central banks are private banks that have the monoploy on the printing of money and the creation of credit they are essentially immune to the surrounding collapse. So as we bail ourselves out we are lining their pockets.

    So when the NAU is officially created and the Amero replaces the dollar i am sure you will tell me that this also is nothing odd and all part of the natural cycle of capitalsim. And that many others predicted it. (can't find any mention of it by Marx though)

    I am not sure the point you are trying to make by bringing marx into this, he surely backs my argument a lot more than yours. Although you are correct that in that he predicted that the present situation is how we would see the collapse of capitalism. hence why we have seen in the last few weeks the word nationalisation being used in a very positive sense by the media. Marx argued that the moral world and economic world would separate as the markets grew and this would bring about the situation for revolution. So i am perplexed that you would use his theory to attack me. It backs me more than anything.

    You seem to a man who is happy to believe that the boom bust cycle is something that is a natural process of a capitalist structure. In fact you seem to be man who is happy to believe anything you are told as long as it comes from an official state agency.

    I think you are going to find that this 'credit crunch', to give it the official slogan, is not going to have the same effects as the 20's. This is a completly different set of events.

    Many factors brought about this crash and the bail out bill instead of attempting to quell them fuels the fire. So instead of needing some reserve to back the dollar, now it is a reserve free currency, fractional reserve banking can now exist on an almost unlimited level.

    If this doesn't ring alarm bells in your head then i don't know what will.




  • Comment number 17.

    #16 the point is that assets aren't being bought up cheaply by banks- repossesed properties etc are being sold at a loss to try and cover debt.

    Neither do I believe everything I'm told- have a look at my defence of the idea that Bin ladin is in Saudi. I believe in Occams razor: the simplest explanation is usually the truth. Compare this to your paranoia.

    I haven't seen one terror attack, celebrity death, economic upset etc that you didn't think was part of the 'new world order's' master plan. The problem with people like you is that you end up being the boy that cried wolf. The odd time you get it right no-one will believe you.

    I brought Marx into it because he started the idea that capitalism was doomed and people have been repeating it ever since. Its certainly lasted better than Marxism.

  • Comment number 18.

    I am a UK taxpayer, concerned at the current financial situation and the potential long term effect of the weakness of our banking system.

    I can understand the public anger directed at the banks for contributing to the mess and affecting their lives.

    However it is clear to me that the media are making a very poor job of explaining the cost of the bail out to the banks. The BBC has been reporting through a number of different outlets that the banks are being given billions of pounds of taxpayer money. NO THEY ARE NOT.

    If, and only if, a qualifying bank requests a capital injection by way of preference shares will it receive an investment of taxpayers money for which it will pay a dividend and accept a range of restrictions.

    If the bank borrows from the taxpayer to refinance commercial debt it will pay a commercial rate.

    For years banks have been savaged in the media for earning substantial profits. Rarely were the scale of those profits put into meaningful context. The public have been brainwashed into thinking that all the profit was stolen from their back pocket and now the banks are in trouble they have returned to mug them again.

    I suspect that most people know at least one person who works in a bank and several more employed by companies with major bank contracts. I further suspect that people would consider the banker they know as a typical human being who, among other things, pays taxes. However, such is the contempt for banks as institutions that we see calls to 'let them fail', 'hang them all' etc. Not sure that helps anyone but probably makes you feel good.

    I know my attempt at a introducing facts will meet a chorus of derision but I do ask you to consider life without a banking system. No way to buy except barter, a breakdown in international trade so no goods in the shops, no way to pay workers so even basic services break down. Don't believe me, then look at Zimbabwe.

  • Comment number 19.

    I think Hank is almost right.

    But it is really the humanoid lizards that are behind it all. They are being controlled by the reverse vampiers under the saucer people, and the real aim is to push down the price of the jelly beans that they have filled with mind control drugs.

    Don't belive all you read people! (especially if it is in green ink)

  • Comment number 20.

    Go peter,

    So you bring up occams razor, which many people do. I thought it referred to things that happened in nature, not politics or economics. I think the 'all things being equal' part of the 'theory' kind of removes it from being useful for any argument involving human behaviour. It is good for logical philosophy and scientific understanding, but in human affairs, not so good. But you have your understanding of it and that is fine. You are a scientist after all.

    I will hold my hand up to believing that with regard to the present economic situation and terror attacks i believe little of what we are officially told. I can't think of any celebrity death that I have ever theorised about. (in fact was it not you who amusingly claimed that ted turners wife died on 9/11)

    So, to be fair, you have more theories about celebrity deaths than me.

    If your going to respond could you try and not use 14th centuary theorists or aesops fables to make your points.

    They have little relevence to the Bail out bill, the m3 index, fractional reserve banking or any of the points i raise.

    You have fallen back to the classic position of not argueing the points made but instead attack the messenger. You should have at least ridiculed me with the old tin-foil hat attack, thats always a good one.

    So carry on ignoring any points i make that you cant answer, NAU or the amero, keep refusing to believe in the existance of the attmpts to create a 'new world order' (still not read 'tragedy and hope' i see) and whatever you do make sure you only ever spend 2 seconds googling any issue your looking for the internet to back up.

    As for the boy who cried wolf, you have to remember there was a wolf.

  • Comment number 21.

    And your mixing up high street banks and central banks in your opening gambit.

  • Comment number 22.

    Thats more the kind of ridicule i was expecting JG. Your a man who has his own conspiciy beliefs i see, Hamas runs the bbc and such things. Good to have you on side

    Ignore the facts and stick to ridicule. Why read legislation when you can make killer points like that.Do you even know what the m3 index was. (without googling it), why do you even bother to add a comment like that. It's funny, don't get me wrong, just not in the way you intended.

    I am at a loss with you. Your contribution reflects you well. Clearly i am to be defeated by your knowledge and intellect and your abilty to disprove that central banks are the net gainers from this whole thing.

    I think it was your brilliant 'green pen argument' that made me realise that i was wrong about reserve free currency being something to worry about.

  • Comment number 23.

    Hank- I think the fundamental difference between you & me is that you believe our leaders are incredibly clever and efficient and engineer everything to suit themselves perfectly whereas I think they're generally promoted far beyond their abilities and screw things up.

    You think 9/11, the credit crunch etc is brilliant conspiracy. I reckon amazing cock-up. Wonder what everyone believes.

  • Comment number 24.

    Peter,

    the fundamental difference betweenus is that I don't trust anyone to do my thinking on my behalf instead I reasearch and read up on the issues involved.

    For example the 'bail out bill', is 451 pages of legaleese that i am doing my best to go through one section at a time. It was hard enough to find a copy that i could download let alone start trying to understand it. A very dull thiing to do i accept. But why should i trust some hack at the BBC to do it on my behalf when they have been so lax at reporting everything else about this financial theft.

    I would sooner spend my time doing it myself so I know for sure what it says.

    Yes i do believe that that 'our leaders' ( again an inaccurate understanding of who is pulling the strings here) are very clever.

    I would suggest they are very succesful at doing as they intend to do. They said they wanted to invade iraq and leave it in a perpetual state of war, and they did it. they said they wanted to crash the dollar and they are doing it. They said they wanted a 'new pearl harbour' and they got it.

    They say they want a new world order and they are getting it. Dont know if you saw the front page of the scotsman today. Interesting headline.

    So the leaders are not clever you say.

    I am guessing you are one of the millions who believes george w. bush to be an idiot, because you have been told to think that. He was an idiot when he wanted to run gov. of texas, and he won, and idiot when he wanted to be the presidential candidate, and he won, he was an idiot when he wanted to be president and he won, twice. He even stole the first election, in a very clear and obvious way. His grandfather was found guilty of colluding with enemy and of attempting a fascist coup during WWII. but it is never brought up(even the BBC admit this one). So this idiot has family ties to adolf hitler and nobody stops him getting elected. You are even happy to back his international bidding and his economic solutions

    From where i stand they are the clever ones, and they get away with it by acting stupid and you fall for it.

    So yes the difference between us is i don't underestimate '(y)our leaders.

    We are the idiots for letting them do it.

    Still i see you are not actually addressing any of the points i made about the economy, Instead this time you are saying the truth will be whatever the majority believe.

    As you say more than 50% of americans believe god made the earth in 6 days (you said 5 but i will correct your error) does that make it right.

  • Comment number 25.

    Reading through what has gone before I am struck by the comments that seem to deny that anything complicit has taken place. Well the markets are driven by the motivation to make money (greed if it is easy money) and they will attack companies in trouble whilst backing those doing well. So much for theory because Iceland's recent financial success was built on nothing but the hot air that escapes through the geysers.

    Even in the USA we see "successful" companies that have thrived, short term, on over-valuation of assets. In other words the whole market has switched from mid to long term interest to expedient money making. This isn't just about the "shorts" because we also observe fund managers homing in on Iceland as a "safe" place to invest - why else would everybody else be investing if it wasn't safe.

    And the banks, our most trusted institutions (sic), are so sure of each other that they will not risk lending to others for fear of catching a cold. For GS this is supposed to be a "trust" environment but all we see is evidence of the same "shorts" that are prevalent with home traders.

    So who is doing what and why? Obviously major shareholders and executive directors are behind the wish to see easy money and they can control the market as they get bigger and bigger. Stories, rumours, and press releases are issued to attract investment or damage competitors without saying anything in particular. It is a "dog eats dog" situation where only the devil will risk taking the last place.

    And what of our chancellor(s)? Didn't they aid and abet by inviting their corporate friends through the door when the average Jo would get near the place? Did they know what they were doing or were they just please to release a balance sheet that "looked" healthy?

    We know that a guesstimate would suggest that, as far as most matters other than PC go, the HOC is filled with hogs to the trough, the biggest "I'm alright Jack" brigade we have seen in that special place. But what of all the financial advisers who sometimes go way over my head when they are talking? Does this mean they made the whole thing too complex in order to cover up the cracks? Is the financial services sector the best advert for polyfilla yet?

  • Comment number 26.

    #24. I don't think Bush is an idiot but neither do I think someone who got C's at Yale is that clever either. I back some of his policies and disagree with others. Politically I describe myself as to the right of Ghengis Khan, but I'm virulently anti-religion, socially fairly liberal, militarily hawkish and less racist than most. In any case its an irrelevance. Its not like Bush actually runs the US is it?

    Incidentally Joe Kennedy backed Hitler too. Adolf was rather popular in the US in the late 30's. There were striking similarities between FDR and Hitler's policies to get their respective nations out of the depression.

    I'm not going to argue about the economy with you for one simple reason: I'm not clever enough to understand it. neither are 99.9% of the worlds population.

  • Comment number 27.

    So you are taking all previous statements about economics and our present situation back.

    great, at least you are fessing up that you have no understanding of what is going on and that all such comments you make are not worth the bytes that they take up.

    Hopefully you will now educate yourself to what is going on before you start speweing out random words and attacking anyone with an opinion that you don't understand.

  • Comment number 28.

    Also you do realise when you say things like 'less racist than most' you are still defining yourself as a racists. Maybe not quite as bad as the KKK, but still a racist. Have you told your iraqi friend this.

    Thats a hell of a thing to say.

  • Comment number 29.

    #3: Hank.

    If you want a conspiracy theory: how about the possibility that the US bankers are doing this deliberately to swing the US presidential elections!?

    Consider this: If you watched Greg Palast's article about "voter fraud" on NewsNight (still on their website if you missed it), he showed that the Republicans are trying to strike those people who had be foreclosed/repossessed off the electoral role. Maybe the Banker/NWO organisation is turning the screws on a the US demographic likely to vote Obama so that they can deny them the right to vote. This could be a nefarious perversion of democracy.

    Perhaps after the election, the whole banking thing will recover; the Republicans can take credit, and McCain will be in the Whitehouse gearing up to go bomb some country (maybe so they can connect Afghanistan and Iraq into one big administrative area - sort of fill the gap in).

    This is all speculations of course, but Cui Bono!

  • Comment number 30.

    Dear sir,
    your leaders have singlehandedly lost millions of pounds from fully secured funds by forcing Kaupthing Bank to bankruptcy. And deploying laws against terrorism to freeze Icelandic assets in England is a gross abuse of power. Terrorism and Iceland, is absurd the right word? What will they do next? I am deeply worried about your country and would advise everyone to deposit their funds from English banks. The FTSE is falling regardless of 50 bn. pounds and cut in interest rates. Act while you still can.

  • Comment number 31.

    Hey all - are you posting on Peston's Picks?

    If not, at least read the blogs - it will take your breath away!

    If the BBC want a true measure of people's feelings and thoughts, that's where you should be!

  • Comment number 32.

    #28. Everyone is racist. For example if you see a gang of black kids in the street your brain starts processing certain thoughts automatically. Its an inbuilt defence mechanism because historically people who were different from us were a threat. Where I live a gang of black kids CAN be dangerous and so I naturally identify all black kids as being a potential threat.

    I'm less racist than most because I've been exposed to many different races as I grew up (partially in Malaysia, partially in the US, mostly in Scotland) and I'm honest enough to admit that I make generalisations about certain ethnic groups that are sometimes wrong, but often right. I have never consciously acted based on my prejudices but all my girlfriends have been the same race as me as are most of my friends. I'd suggest so are yours.

    I'm also honest enough to admit that I know less about economics that a trained economist, less about structural engineering than a civil engineer and less about intelligence than the CIA.... unlike yourself who believes that they are a world expert in all these spheres. The fact I do not have a degree and decades of experience in these does not disqualify me from having an opinion on them. Its just that my opinion may be wrong. Again I'm man enough to admit when I am wrong or when I am out of my depth.

    You may want to think long and hard about this before posting a reply.

  • Comment number 33.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 34.

    Peter,

    I don't need to think long and hard about my reply, All i have to do is speak from the heart, no google required.

    To cover your points

    Its the gang that is dangerous not the colour of the gang. Justify your own prejudices to yourself if you wish but please don't pass them onto me. I find it appauling that you see 'black kids' as a threat. I have lived in peckham, stockwell, finsbury park amongst other places, when i was in london. I have to say i never once felt as threatened by the 'kids' down there as i have when I walk through maryhill or easterhouse.

    I don't like playing this kind of game but to satisfy you I have gone out with and been attracted to girls of many races and nationalities. Because i could care less about there race or place of birth. It's whats inside that counts. I have muslim friends, african friends, german friends , japaneese friends, even friends who are scottish. I believe fundamentally that we are all one race and one people.

    So please don't presume because you can't get over your prejudices that everyone must possess them.

    I am no world expert on economics, I don't claim to be, but you don't need to be to see what is going on here. Macro-economics is not that hard a subject to get to grips with. You don't have to be a genius to understand that fractional reserve banking is flawed, or that central banking is not a force for good. You just have to spend a few months reading.

    I wouldn't dare try and school you on cancer research of regressive genes and the things you know about, Its what you do. So please dont question my competence when you know next to nothing about me. Politics and such is my hobby, I studied it at University, and just as you seem to enjoy reading and knowing about military history, I do the same for Politics, Geo-politics more than anything else.

    I have never claimed to know a thing about engineering, another subject I have never postulated about beyond the basic newtonian physics. Analysing NIST reports is most definatly not my kind of argumentative tactic. I leave that to those who know and care about that part of the argument. With regard to 9/11 i see other arguments as much more important and conclusive of foul play. But that is another subject.

    I don't know how many times i have to say this to you, you only need to read what the CIA et al say they are going to do to know what they are up to, They have long stopped trying to hide in the shadows because they know people could care less. Much easier to dismiss anyone who 'cries wolf' as a 'tin-foil hat' or a 'green pen' thinker. A charge folks like you are only too happy to repeat on their behalf. Its was called 'Operation Mockingbird' and it worked.

    Instead of asking me to think long and hard about what i am saying, why don't you read some of the legislation.

    It's mainly available online from govt., agency and think-tank websites. It doesn't come from far left sites or far right sites, it comes from the source. Simple as that.

    I have never actually said your opinion is not allowed. I have suggested your thinking is flawed and niave but that is just my opinion.

    And please look back any of our arguments, they normally start with you attacking my opinion. I could care less about what you have to say until you tell me i am wrong in what i believe then I feel obliged to defend myself.

    Believe me I would love to be wrong on a lot of this, but our crumbling economy seems to be proving me right.








  • Comment number 35.

    #33

    Would a moderator care to email me as to how I could have broken the house rules with this entry?

  • Comment number 36.

    #32 and #34:

    I have to say that Peter is just being honest. Racism and other prejudices exist and are common. However, they are not socially acceptable to admit, but they are still there subconsciously.

    In the book "Blink", Malcolm Gladwell dedicated a chapter to subconscious prejudices, and he referenced a test developed at Harvard. You can take this test at:
    https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/

    It turns out that 50% of black/"African" Americans have negative stereotypes of other blacks. This is largely because of bad experiences and a negative portrayal in the wider media.

  • Comment number 37.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 38.

    #34. You're entirely correct that its the gang thats the problem. It just happens that in my town 95% of gunmen (and their victims) happen to be black. I'd suggest you find the same thing in South central L.A, Brixton London etc. In my town the reason for this is actually quite odd- 3 diffferent estates inhabited respectively by jamacians, trinidadians and St. Ketts and Nevis and the rivalry between them is as bas as Protestant v Catholic in Belfast.

    I'm also glad you admit politics is a hobby. It is for me too, but its just a hobby. I'm well aware where my knowledge and experience ends. However before I became a scientist I was a soldier and unlike yourself I HAVE blown things up so I have a few areas of suprising expertise. I was quite amused how many people had so many ideas about controlled demolitions on the various WTC blogs.

  • Comment number 39.

    I do think that the BBC has not been getting at who knew about this banking collapse and when. The warning signs have been around for over a year with sub-prime and Northern Rock.

    The fact is this banking collapse appears to orchestrated. Since we have all watched "Trading Places" we know that people with serious money can make money from falling stocks as well as rising stocks. All they need to know is the time and direction.

    Just watch out for "secondary punches", the neo-cons like to have a one-two punch whenever they plan their "Shock Doctrine" tactics.

  • Comment number 40.

    Peter you have strayed so far from the economic argument that you admitted that you didn't understand and your now claiming that a few months with the peacekeepers in bosnia makes you an expert on on the thermite vs CD vs Global collapse.

    Maybe you are, but as i say, your arguing with the wrong guy about the wrong subject.

    Regarding 9/11, other smoking guns are much more interesting and supporting to foul play. The Steel salvage contracts that were signed pre 9/11 for example. Look it up, they were amusingly (if you know where i got my login name from) contracted to the John Galt corp. The 9/11 argument is mute now though, it is like a small flood compared to the tsunami that is on the horizon.

    I want you to understand something Peter, these are not just words I put on here. I live by my statements. I had a nice highly paid job in London, which i have left because I am not going to say one thing and do another. I am doing my best to make sure my family will survive what is to come, to survive what is happening at an increasing rate. this can't be done from a desk in London. You might think me mad, my family think i am mad too. Interestingly though in the last few weeks they have started taking me a hell of a lot more seriously.

    I wish you would too. You are my brother Peter, if you get cut i will bleed, as much as i disagree with you and get frustrated at your refusal to check anything I say, I want you to survive all this. I first have to get you to accept what is going on. Which is tricky when you plain refuse to check up on anything.

    Only a few weeks ago you were denying there was even such a thing as a 'new world order' or an attempt to create one. If you are as big a political junkie as me i am sure you will have heard this phrase countless times in the last few days. Can you at least accept that that is another thing that old 'tin-foil-hat' here has been right about.

    I will be gone within a few months from here, As i say i am going to be doing my best in looking after my family. So you will be able to throw out all and any opinion you wish without fear that i will be here to challenge you. I just hope in my heart that you have accepted by then what is happening.

  • Comment number 41.

    ynda,

    I thought the two of the one two was going to be last week. I still fear it is to come, order out of chaos and all that.

  • Comment number 42.

    What I don't understand about any of the current banking crisis is why nobody has mentioned anything about criminal proceedings against the reckless 'professionals' who have caused the crisis.
    If it was the head of a huge multinational business that had bankrupted the company as a result of gambling with share holder’s money there would be huge outcries from all quarters (including government) to put the culprits away.
    The worst I have read from what Gordon Brown has to say is that he will cut their bonus in future?
    Am I missing something?

  • Comment number 43.

    I'm curious to know how those Micro-finance lenders and their customers are doing these days, from Dakha to New York.

  • Comment number 44.

    Robert, according to Wikipedia there were many "Financial Experts" who attended the
    Bilderberg Group meeting 2008 (June 5-8) at the Westfields Marriott in Chantilly, Virginia, United States:

    Including
    • Keith B. Alexander (2008), current Director, National Security Agency
    • Roger Altman (2008), former United States Deputy Secretary of the Treasury
    • Harold Ford, Jr. (2008), current Chairman, Democratic Leadership Council, former US Congressman, Vice Chairman, Merrill Lynch & Co., Inc.
    • Robert Gates (2008), current United States Secretary of Defense
    • Richard Holbrooke (1995 - 1999, 2004 - 2006, 2008), former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations
    • Vernon Jordan (1979-1985, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1991, 2005, 2006, 2008)
    • Henry Kissinger (1957, 1964, 1966, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1977-2003, 2004,[6] 2005-2008), Secretary of State, 1973 – 1977
    • Henry M. Paulson, Jr. (2008), current United States Secretary of the Treasury
    The list goes on so is better if you check yourself...

    Anyway because the Bilderberg Group holds "Private Meetings" many theorists conclude they have a hidden agenda.

    It can be seen from this list that there were alot more "Financial Experts" at this meeting than previous years. May we all ask what did they already know about the problems with the banks then. Is it a coincidence that after this meeting a global financial crisis has occurred or has this crisis been cleverly planned? Let's ask the Bilderberg Group attendees to comment and produce the minutes of their meetings! They owe us this "Right" in the name of "freedom of information" act during these difficult times. Lets clear the air so we can be sure there is no financial "New World Order" agenda!!

  • Comment number 45.

    The problem with the media talking up a storm on a global recession is that all of the frightened sheep rush to sell their equity while the carpet baggers wait for their grand entry. "If you can keep your head while others are losing theirs, you'll be a man my son!". By creating too much hype in the interests of promoting their media brands, they are actually not going to hurt the rich of the world (who are getting ready to buy!) but they are going to prejudice the poor and timid. The fact is that there is a phenomenon called crowd psychology and the media are making true the statement "That which I most feared has come upon me". Personally I am just sitting on my cash waiting to buy while the rest of the world looses their heads! Thank you BBC, CNN and all the rest you are doing everyone a great favour by creating opportunities for the courageous.

  • Comment number 46.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 47.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 48.

    They have been Fuff'in us here in the US


    ***** Derek the pissed off Plumber ******

  • Comment number 49.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

 

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