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Follow-Up to BBC Red Button Changes on Freeview

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Rahul Chakkara Rahul Chakkara | 17:05 UK time, Friday, 23 October 2009

It's been a few days now since I posted the news that on Tuesday 27th October we'll be closing two of the interactive streams on the BBC Red Button on Freeview to make way for free-to-air HD coming to the platform. Lots of you have commented with a wide range of opinions and I wanted to get back to you on a few of the main topics.

Firstly I can absolutely understand why some of you disagree with these changes. It affects the content you love to watch, and I want to reassure you that we are doing everything we can in conjunction with our colleagues in Sport to schedule events to ensure that we try and accommodate all the major sporting events on Freeview; that we continue to provide schedule information online and this is made available to TV listings magazines to help you know when which sport is on and to remind you that BBC Sport video available via the Red Button is also available on BBC Online/Sport.

During major events we will also look to free up bandwidth available to the BBC across Freeview as we did during the Summer Olympics in 2008.

Regarding why we chose these two streams to switch off, simply, of the streams available to us, these two were the ones deemed to present programming that could be made available elsewhere across the BBC's channels.

HD is becoming the next broadcasting standard as more programmes are being made in HD and more people own HD ready televisions. The BBC along with the DCMS, Ofcom and other public service broadcasters are helping to lead HD development in the UK so that audiences will be able to enjoy the benefits of HD content.

HD is already available on satellite and cable platforms. Freeview is the only platform without the BBC's HD content. It was felt important that it also offered viewers HD channels both from the BBC and from other broadcasters. Initially only those in the areas where digital switchover has happened will be able to access Freeview HD, but it will be nationwide by 2012 and we hope that some areas in the UK will be able to offer it sooner than that. We made the decision not to continue running these streams in areas which are yet to have digital switchover because, while technically it would be possible, editorially we can't run two different services in different parts of the country.

This does mean that for a time between now and 2012 when switchover is completed there will be some unused spectrum covering parts of the UK on the multiplexes we own. We're sub-leasing that in order to make sure we are getting maximum value for money.

I hope this gives a bit more clarity on why we've made the decisions we have and what's happening in the future on BBC Red Button. In all decisions involving trade offs some will be disappointed. I recognise these disappointments and can reassure you that my team is looking at some of the emerging technologies to deliver content.

In the meantime we will continue to deliver a good service on the Red Button. This week on Freeview I hope you'll enjoy Electric Proms 2009, which has Robbie Williams, Dizzee Rascal, Doves and Shirley Bassey as just some of the names appearing in concert behind the red button.

Comments

  • 1. At 5:25pm on 23 Oct 2009, Tim Jinkerson wrote:

    Meanwhile, while you continue to show Magners League rugby on Freeview, will you commit to giving the English viewers English commentary? People in Wales get English by default and Welsh as an option. The English only get Welsh! Where's the sense in that?

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  • 2. At 6:27pm on 23 Oct 2009, PlatinumPlatypus wrote:

    "We made the decision not to continue running these streams in areas which are yet to have digital switchover because, while technically it would be possible, editorially we can't run two different services in different parts of the country.

    This does mean that for a time between now and 2012 when switchover is completed there will be some unused spectrum covering parts of the UK on the multiplexes we own. We're sub-leasing that in order to make sure we are getting maximum value for money."

    In other words, we will be running two different services across the country anyway, because hardly anyone will actually be able to get HD on Freeview at first, but we want to sell on some of our spectrum space to fund all the things you don't care about like BBC Three and cushy celebrity dinners, while trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

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  • 3. At 6:45pm on 23 Oct 2009, GJ THE AUSSIE STUD wrote:

    and I want to reassure you that we are doing everything we can in conjunction with our colleagues in Sport to schedule events to ensure that we try and accommodate all the major sporting events on Freeview



    so when the world snooker championship is on how will both tables be covered as they were for the past few years on 301 and 302

    i wait to here your rEsponse to this

    BBC dont care about snooker this decision proves this

    PATHETIC

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  • 4. At 7:19pm on 23 Oct 2009, Hyperstar wrote:

    This should force the snooker to be on BBC 2 even if they don't want to show it. Who cares what BBC2 want on. Sport comes first

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  • 5. At 7:20pm on 23 Oct 2009, chris260 wrote:

    i am not pleased about this with the olympics coming up people wont get to see all the sport like you will be able to on sky,freesat andvirgin plus people will miss out on the other sports that will be shown on the red button this has really made me hate the bbc a lot we pay them a lot just to do this.

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  • 6. At 7:31pm on 23 Oct 2009, Ray-Cathode wrote:

    And you said you would provide answers to all the questions....

    ....but you have once again neatly avoided explaining why the BBC is not using the guaranteed Channel Four plc slot that was allocated by Ofcom in its HD consultation and regulatory statement, to keep one of these interactive streams available to Freeview viewers (the largest BBC audience). Why can't the BBC answer this simple question?

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  • 7. At 7:38pm on 23 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    why did the BBC not bother to consult people who get there digital tv via freeview, the parliment channel shud of been axed well be4 an interactive stream (channel 302) its another BBC cock up not puttin the viewer be4 HD, wich will cost a fortune 2 get on freeview. i ask this, do the BBC give a monkeys...........answers on an interactive stream no longer availible to freeview!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! later yaw'll

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  • 8. At 7:49pm on 23 Oct 2009, Hyperstar wrote:

    I hope they will regret it

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  • 9. At 8:02pm on 23 Oct 2009, KernowChris wrote:

    You fail to answer why the BBC have not taken the slot on the ITV/4 multiplex as announced when the HD proposal was agreed with Ofcom.

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  • 10. At 8:54pm on 23 Oct 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    "It was felt important that it also offered viewers HD channels both from the BBC and from other broadcasters."

    Why, there is not one DVB-T HD reviver in the country, no one other than those in the know knew anything about Freeview HD, what people don't know about and don't get they don't miss. The ONLY two groups that want this are Ofcom (who can keep a greater part of the post DSO spectrum windfall) the manufactures of the new STBs.

    As usual, and as someone else said, when ITV, Ch4 or Ch5 say jump, Ofcom asks "How High", and the BBC obediently obliges. So basically another fate a complee then...

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  • 11. At 9:31pm on 23 Oct 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    "pikester13" (re comment #7), the Parliament channel is there by decree of parliament, so more chance of BBC three or Four vanishing from the Freeview channel list...

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  • 12. At 10:54pm on 23 Oct 2009, Rialto2 wrote:

    The BBC won't let me post the link to the ofcom report stating that Channel 4 should give up a space on Mux 2 to the BBC. If you search for 'future of dtt' on the world's most popular search engine it is the pdf link second on the list. I believe p36 4.101 and Figure 2 on p37, as well as p60 5.25 show that only one BBC stream should be lost to vacate Mux B and one moved to Mux 2 to replace a Channel 4 service. Am I reading this wrong or have things been changed?

    If you could please answer this question I would be grateful. I am sure you know of this report so why are you ignoring the question?

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  • 13. At 11:28pm on 23 Oct 2009, irelandscall-95 wrote:

    No rugby on Freeview tonight - why not? Only continuos music. Could they not have given a break from 7.00pm - 9.00pm and then gone bacxk to the music?

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  • 14. At 00:46am on 24 Oct 2009, Martinbee wrote:

    Why is the C4 question being ignored and why are we freeview viewers who already had a sub standard red button service being given an even worse one when we all pay the same licence fee. I've no problem with an HD service being offered although it will be a long while before I am likely to use it and I can live without multi screen but will miss it but 302 should stay.

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  • 15. At 10:04am on 24 Oct 2009, pigeon96 wrote:

    I Watched MotoGp Qualifying this morning live on 302 from Malaysia whats going to happen to MotoGp coverage now ?

    while the bbc still has the contract to show it.
    i know they will take it off the air. PATHETIC.

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  • 16. At 11:59am on 24 Oct 2009, poshsimontemplar wrote:

    Once again, the decision has been made, and, despite protests, questions and deputations from contributors here and in the announcement thread, nothing is going to change. The BBC will continue to be intransigent. It's like a politician or political party. They cannot be seen to be backtracking and apologising. It's just the way it is.

    Rahul Chakkara
    "of the streams available to us, these two were the ones deemed to present programming that could be made available elsewhere across the BBC's channels."

    That's not a good enough assurance, imho.
    If you'd said they "will" be made available elsewhere, it shows you've listened and viewers would be reassured.

    Again, we don't want a substitute online, it's isn't the same, and we can't all watch that. We can with Freeview SD on 302.

    They want HD in time for the Olympics, but, I wonder how many people will have Freeview HD by then. It's more expense. Not only that, but, I'm pretty certain we won't be able to receive it effectively in our poor signal area.

    I still believe the BBC is doing the viewers a disservice by taking our toys away. Yes, our toys!

    -Posh

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  • 17. At 12:58pm on 24 Oct 2009, horningman wrote:

    There are several reasons for a very deep concern about this.

    --- It's being rushed in long before any HD equipment is available.

    --- HD on Freeview could wait until after analogue switch-off, when the government might make some more multiplexes possible, or the Freeview transmission system might be upgraded to provide more bandwidth.

    --- It isn't necessary; with a bit of thought enough bandwidth could be obtained to maintain 302 and still introduce HD. Several experts on the Digital Spy forum have explained in detail how this could be done.

    --- The question of the C4 bandwidth still hasn't been answered.

    --- It goes directly against the viewers' interests. Freeview should have the same number of additional channels as satellite, not a mere one.

    I'm growing increasingly suspicious of the true motives behind this act of vandalism. Is it pandering to HD equipment manufacturers, or is it the result of a BBC inter-departmental squabble? It certainly isn't justifiable by any rational logic.

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  • 18. At 1:20pm on 24 Oct 2009, effinghamjon wrote:

    Hi Rahul - can you give us an assurance that 301 will remain fully available to interactive services? There have been reports on Digital Spy and other media-savvy outlets that BBC Three and CBBC will be increasing their hours, and that 301 may be given over to them. Losing 302 is clearly a blow to Sport and other genres. Losing 301 as well would be utterly disastrous.

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  • 19. At 5:02pm on 24 Oct 2009, TelevisionUser wrote:

    I am appalled by this decision of the BBC because it is a significant diminution of the BBC's interactive services for those viewers whose sole access to digital television is by Freeview. In particular, the extra BBCi channels have provided much-needed additional sports coverage. This is especially important because Freeview does not yet have its own dedicated sports channel.

    I appreciate that hight definition channels have to come to Freeview and that they are bandwidth-hungry. However, insufficient consideration was clearly given to preserving as much of the BBCi options as possible.

    Why, for instance, have there not been negotiations with other terrestrial broadcasters with Freeview space to see what can be done?

    Quote:
    "This does mean that for a time between now and 2012 when switchover is completed there will be some unused spectrum covering parts of the UK on the multiplexes we own. We're sub-leasing that in order to make sure we are getting maximum value for money."

    If the above is the case, why then is this space not being used for the BBCi channels? We, the licence paying viewers, should get maximum value for money, including access to channels that those with satellite and cable get, and we should not be given patronising responses.

    I hope as many people as possible complain to the BBC Trust here about this inept and ill-considered decision - http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/index.shtml.

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  • 20. At 6:23pm on 24 Oct 2009, Ian wrote:

    Good point about complaining to the BBC Trust, who exist "to get the best for licence fee payers". Ofcom clearly don't want the best for licence fee payers, and it seems the BBC themselves don't, so that's a good suggestion.

    And so, have others have said - please answer the question about why the Mux 2 slot (which everyone assumed was for 302) has disappeared? Unless the BBC have sold this on (like the rest of Mux B) for more cash? Bizarre.

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  • 21. At 7:50pm on 24 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    i wud'nt be remotely 'bovvered' if BBC FOUR were axed but just becoz parliment is in existince does'nt give it an automatic 24hr slot on freeview "boilerplated" !! scrapping a service thats used by millions aweek for HD that aint gunna be nation wide till 2012 is wrong an thats fact, parliment channel is not watched that much it dunt have a viewing figure count!!!! wot does that say!! put it on multiscreen of the moon just not keeping it an ditch channel 302. does anybody think that OFCOM gives a **** .........no! same for the BBC untrust-worthy! later yaw'll

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  • 22. At 9:31pm on 24 Oct 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #21. At 7:50pm on 24 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "scrapping a service thats used by millions aweek for HD that aint gunna be nation wide till 2012 is wrongan thats fact, parliment channel is not watched that much it dunt have a viewing figure count!!!!"

    BBC-P will not be closing because the BBC have been told that have to provide the channel, to do so would earn the roth of Parliament, Parliament decides what the licence fee should be etc. remember - the words turkeys, Christmas and vote come to mind...

    It's not about viewing figures, it's about democracy and being able to see and hear what is being done in our names, those who do not see any point in the BBC-P channel really should have no right to vote in my opinion...

    But you're right, the news-multi screen and LCN302 should be kept, combine CBeebies and CBBC and close BBC Three instead - assuming t5hat non of the other ways of sorting this mess out really can't be achieved.

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  • 23. At 11:32am on 25 Oct 2009, Hyperstar wrote:

    Final Score isn't going to be on Next Saturday on freeview as they showing F1 onboard until 15:10 followed by F1 forum. Me thinks BBC2 should show Final Score from 14:30 to 16:30

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  • 24. At 12:27pm on 25 Oct 2009, Brekkie wrote:

    Re: C4's bandwidth. It's C4's - not OFCOMs or the BBC, and without the agreement of C4, they would be under no obligation to gift it to the BBC - and I see no reason why C4 should be forced to sacrifice a channel of their own to provide space for the BBC, even if the BBC Red Button stream is preferable.

    In addition, they've not been gifted HD space - they had to bid for it. We now have the ridiculous situation where after a decade of digital being sold as making C4 and S4C available on their own channels in Wales, they'll have to share a HD stream (another consequence of OFCOM's incompetence).


    Who can we complain to officially at the BBC about this decision? No point with OFCOM - they opened a consultation on it, which from forum discussions I'd imagine most comments were against it for exactly the reasons we're seeing now (I know I put views along that line forward), and then of course OFCOM ignored such views and did what they wanted anyway.


    And quoting from above: "Freeview is the only platform without the BBC's HD content. It was felt important that it also offered viewers HD channels both from the BBC and from other broadcasters."

    Wasn't it also felt important that the BBC's interactive services were available on all platforms, and indeed I'm sure I recall a report a couple of years back stating the BBC should make an effort to improve Freeview's offerings to be more comparable to those on Sky and Cable.


    Indeed, what's the point in anyone investing in HD when a few years down the line somebody will decide the HD channels need to be sacrificed in order to provide 3DTV or something on Freeview. Indeed the 4 or 5 channel model for HD isn't sustainable at all - already the BBC have the content to easily offer at least two HD channels, whilst elsewhere plans for Film4 HD have had to be put on hold as there simply isn't space for them on Freeview.

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  • 25. At 6:12pm on 25 Oct 2009, Dan_G_WP wrote:

    I wish I was never wrong, too.

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  • 26. At 7:30pm on 25 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    well boilerplated i do have a right to vote but by the sounds of u im sure ur a backbencher tory!!!!! an BBCthree is the best BBC channel on air. altho the 2 kiddy channels thiery is a gud 1. later yaw'll

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  • 27. At 10:16am on 26 Oct 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    26. At 7:30pm on 25 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    [ in reply to a comment that CBeebies and CBBC should combine and BBC Three should close rather than LCN302]

    " an BBCthree is the best BBC channel on air."

    There is nothing on BBC Three that could not be broadcast on BBC1 or 2, indeed some of what BBC Three broadcasts appears to be either just a catch-up service for, or a home for repeats of, what has already been broadcast by those two channels. Totally unjustifiable in this age of video recording devices and the BBC iPlayer, especially so were broadcast spectrum capacity is in short supply, as is the case now with DVB-T.

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  • 28. At 2:22pm on 26 Oct 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    As there have been some comments on coverage of specific sport events, you may be interested in this post from Ben Gallop on the Sport Editors blog.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2009/10/changes_to_bbc_sport_output_on.html

    Although there are no specifics on there, BBC Sport determine what they show on BBC Red Button so you may wish to ask questions and have your say on there.

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  • 29. At 2:31pm on 26 Oct 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    effinghamjon - although there have been some news stories about it in the past, there are currently no plans for either BBC Three or CBBC to change their hours of broadcast. If a proposal was put forward, the BBC Trust would have to assess it and the possible implications of that change.


    Brekkie - if you, or anyone here, would like to lodge an official complaint on this topic, or any BBC matter, you can do so via the BBC Complaints website which will guide you through the process - http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints


    A number of people have asked about the Channel 4 space, and we will post an answer to that question soon.

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  • 30. At 3:28pm on 26 Oct 2009, HD wrote:

    "The BBC along with the DCMS, Ofcom and other public service broadcasters are helping to lead HD development in the UK so that audiences will be able to enjoy the benefits of HD content."

    If Ofcom cared one bit about HDTV in the UK, they wouldn't be selling off OUR TV spectrum, instead they'd make sure the TV spectrum from digital switch-over is used for HQ HDTV & SD FTA channels, and allow more than just one Mux for all HD channels. This would ensure the BBC could use reasonable bitrates for the HD channels instead, yet because of Ofcom, we're only going to get around 8 mbit/s (initally about 9 mbit/s) and ONLY 4-5 HD channels total on Freeview HD. If Ofcom cared about the quality, they would have made sure 1080p50 was part of the standard from the start of Freeview HD too. Obviously Ofcom is only interested in selling off Spectrum and getting money and don't care one bit about quality or UK TV. The BBC should not stand by and let Ofcom, who is supposed to be make there are high quality TV standards, sell off the spectrum and sell off TV quality and TV channel space like this.

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  • 31. At 3:32pm on 26 Oct 2009, KernowChris wrote:

    #29 - I am very interested in the Ch4 space question and look forward to the response, as it was promised that the BBC would use a slot on that mux when Ofcom and the BBC announced the HD agreement.

    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/dttfuture/dttfuture.pdf

    one UK-wide commercial service will need to be displaced from Multiplex 2 to
    accommodate a BBC service; however, Five’s departure from Multiplex A will free
    up a slot for another commercial service on that multiplex;

    as displayed graphically on P36 of this
    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/dttfuture/statement/statement.pdf
    document.

    On a further matter can you please improve the quality of the online streams - which will carry the material now removed from FV - so that they at least match that of the HQ F1 stream.

    Thanks.

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  • 32. At 7:40pm on 26 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    so boilerplated ur just picking now aint ya!! just because BBC three's output aint up 2 the prim n proper bs that is required for BBC one dunt make it scrappable does it!!!!!! BBC three aint a "catch up service" at all.......u ever erd of BBCi player......xactly ur rong. BBC three is a channel that caters to a younger audience who dont want to listen 2 the graham norton show (BLEEPED) all the time becoz sum lil old lady mite become offended, BBC three offeres summat totaly diffrent thats enjoyable 2 watch for "younger people" but the BBC cud n shud do so much more an do it diffrent that wud'nt cost sumthink wanted by thousnds. (302). an y did i have 2 waste '10 years of my life messin round 2 get on here 2 post my comment, wot woz the point!!!!!!!! later yaw'll

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  • 33. At 11:14pm on 26 Oct 2009, John Hibbert wrote:

    Sneaked this one onto us by stealth did,nt you.
    You take just about all of the red button services away from us freeview users and try to tell us that you have given us a superior service.
    When will the idiots at the BBC listen to the licence paying public and their requirements instead of dictating to us what you think is best for us. I like many others will not be interested in HD for some time yet but have to be made to suffer for it to be forced upon us. If the definition of the standard digital picture was,nt so awful it would,nt be required anyway.

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  • 34. At 00:03am on 27 Oct 2009, F1Ferg wrote:

    What would happen with F1 Practice Sessions next year if there isn't enough room on 301? Would it be moved to another BBC channel or would Freeview users have to put up with the pathetic quality replay on the website?

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  • 35. At 09:10am on 27 Oct 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    32. At 7:40pm on 26 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "so boilerplated ur just picking now aint ya!!"

    No more and no less than you seem to be picking on BBC-P, but with the slight difference being that BBC-P is the only TV channel in the UK were one can access the content, the same is not true about BBC Three (were much of it's content originates from other channels anyway).

    If push came to shove BBC Three would be closed before BBC-P.

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  • 36. At 7:41pm on 27 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    u are picking boilerplated........thats a given lol
    y u have such an obsetion with BBC-P i dnt kno but if u get all xcited about watchin the PM wobble sum more then gud 4 u son lol
    but wen push comes 2 shove BBC-P goes an (302) stays in my book any day ok!
    ive just looked thru wot the BBC will offer on RedButton sport wise an am goin 2 scream coz of the lack of F1 fourum next weekend that is the final straw, payin thru the licence fee for summat then the BBC not providing it becoz of ******* HD roll out plans. wot ever plank thort it woz a gud idea........it wer'nt yea. the BBC has realy let every licence payer wit freeview well an truly down wit a bang an shud hang there heads wit shame!!!! later yaw'll

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  • 37. At 8:33pm on 27 Oct 2009, ad2009 wrote:

    Just found out about this and am totally angered by the BBC yet again. Why is it those of us who can't afford sky, virgin,etc. being victimised?

    As others have asked, what will have withe coverage we have enjoyed? Will we still get MotoGP, snooker, Magners League, etc.?

    Of course there is no point contacting the BBC directly as it costs them "too much money" to respond to emails, "as it drastically reduces the money available to spend on programmes".

    Why do we bother with licence fees, didn't realise that the BBC was an anagram of total shambolic garbage.

    As my box isn't HD compatible, will you BBC provide me with a shiny new box that is? And the laughable stupidity of it, won't get it for another 2 years. Incredible way to go.

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  • 38. At 7:41pm on 28 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    beautifuly put ad2009 the BBC r so FREESAT-SKY-VIRGINMEDIA obsessed they do not care bout the fact that we freeviewers are always put 2 the back of the que an shunned. later yaw'll

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  • 39. At 10:47pm on 28 Oct 2009, the doc wrote:

    I am writing to complain in the strongest possible terms about the removal of news multiscreen & 1 of the 2 other interactive channels from Freeview,.
    This had been done without any statistically significant consultation or even a prior warning to allow viewers to put their opinion.

    Judged by the complaints no one thinks this decision is in the best interests of viewers.
    and everyone thinks that if a second rate HD freeview service is wanted it should not be at SD Freeview viewers’ expense.

    It therefore seems the management and responsible director of the BBC (and those in ITV for removing ITV3&4 from the relay transmitters) are guilty of being ineffective in acting in viewers best interests and should be severely reprimanded &/or removed by the BBC trust.

    The real culprits in this are OFCOM who, when I rang their Licensing Complaints section responsible for this fiasco, denied all involvement and asked what a multiplex is. They have decided for their own reasons to request the BBC & ITV to act against viewers interests. OFCOM should be reprimanded by government and those responsible in OFCOM should lose their jobs. Everyone should write to their MPS requesting this.

    Since switchover in 2007, to 3 PSB Mux only, we rely on Freeview for our TV (and radio having no VHF or DAB coverage). We have used News Multiscreen nearly every day and made frequent use of the other interactive channels and ITV 3 & 4.
    Since switchover, we have had at least 4 retunes, the only one of benefit was to add Ch 5 which was soon after moved to a different PSB multiplex necessitating yet another retune. This shows how totally confused the thinking is and how those in charge have no consideration for the difficulty and expense some older people will have in these repeated retunes of all their equipment.

    At switchover we were promised in adverts by DIGITAL UK that if we chose Freeview we would receive, amongst other channels, Interactive services (plural) and ITV3 & 4. This was an untrue statement. Since the promise made was false as the result of decisions by the BBC, ITV And OFCOM rather than force majeure, there should be a case for all consumers to seek recompense for being missold all their Freeview equipment.
    I hope the changes will be completely reversed a s a p and those responsible will be held to account or compensation is paid.


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  • 40. At 10:47am on 29 Oct 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    On the Channel 4 space question, I have a response from Rahul:

    In your response to your questions around whether capacity was available elsewhere on Freeview, the BBC Executive Board considered the option of taking up a slot currently occupied by one of Channel 4's services on the Digital 3/4 multiplex. However, it concluded that this option was not good value for money for the licence fee payer in this instance

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  • 41. At 10:49am on 29 Oct 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    Apologies too for the delay in posting that answer - it arrived in my Inbox on Monday evening however I've been off work ill.

    Andrew

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  • 42. At 11:18am on 29 Oct 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #40. At 10:47am on 29 Oct 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    "On the Channel 4 space question, I have a response from Rahul:

    In your response to your questions around whether capacity was available elsewhere on Freeview, the BBC Executive Board considered the option of taking up a slot currently occupied by one of Channel 4's services on the Digital 3/4 multiplex. However, it concluded that this option was not good value for money for the licence fee payer in this instance"


    Well, judging from comments left here and elsewhere the licence fee payers are telling the BBC otherwise, again the BBC is using the VFM test as a way of steamrollering decisions through irrespective of what the BBC's paymasters actually think...

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  • 43. At 12:18pm on 29 Oct 2009, KernowChris wrote:

    #40 - So the BBC Board decided to break the terms of the Ofcom brokered HD agreement then, it's an interesting response to say the least.

    Any news on increasing the online quality to compensate yet?

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  • 44. At 12:43pm on 29 Oct 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #43. At 12:18pm on 29 Oct 2009, ChrisCornwall wrote:

    "#40 - So the BBC Board decided to break the terms of the Ofcom brokered HD agreement then, it's an interesting response to say the least.

    Any news on increasing the online quality to compensate yet?"


    Might be an idea for the BBC to get everyone, in the same terms as Freeview reception, a high speed internet connection and computer first, those who have lost these "Red Button" services and do not have one, either or both the above have lost all hope due to this stupid decision by the BBC.

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  • 45. At 3:27pm on 29 Oct 2009, mrdtv wrote:

    The BBC responses are singularly unconvincing:

    a) The BBC did not consult on these proposed changes with its licence fee payers: abysmal stakeholder management

    b) Ofcom has denied the PSBs access to sufficient spectrum to support either a HD service with decent picture quality or a sufficient portfolio of services. The last advanced TV service sponsored by Ofcom's predecessor, the ITC, ended in dismal failure. Some of the guilty parties in that episode are in senior positions in Ofcom today. Plus ca change...

    c)The T2 technology remains in its infancy: it took five years to sort out T1. Unlike T1 there is no real commercial backing from other major EU countries.

    The political climate is changing: the Conservatives are on course for a landslide victory, they have announced Ofcom will be axed after the election, the BBC will probably have 30% spending cuts imposed across the board according to last week's 'Broadcast' and 'vanity' projects such as HD will be ditched in the coming spending cull. Why then does the BBC not seek to consult its most important stakeholders who are funding its existence?

    To quoute from Emma:

    'Beeb, it was badly done. Badly done!'

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  • 46. At 6:03pm on 29 Oct 2009, Hyperstar wrote:

    I just seen alot of Satellite dishes popping up in houses lately. Must be the effect of freeview turning into crapview

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  • 47. At 7:29pm on 29 Oct 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    wot everybody is forgetting on here (bar a few) an the BBC is that they dont give a monkeys backend wot the licence payer an the viewer want. The BBC mis-trust/untrustworthy are supposed 2 reflect wot the licence payer want but they in actual fact just take their salary an do sod all, i hate myself 4 sayin this but i agree wit the tory's in sayin they wud ditch the BBC mis-trust/untrustworthy, becoz they do nothing at all, the scrappage of 302 is a discrace, were are the BBC so-called trust BACKING the vast people on here wantin this appaling disition reversed. my point exactly.
    are the BBC gunna pay 4 all those affected by the loss 2 get freesat as a replacement........hell no they aint, do the BBC even care.....again, hell no they dont.
    Later yaw'll

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  • 48. At 9:09pm on 29 Oct 2009, Robin Wright wrote:

    Will the excellent Rick O'Shea Fan Scene commentary still be available on Scrum V online??????
    Its bad enough that you seem to have taken it off the red button to be replaced by prerecorded music that loops hour after hour.

    Bring back Rick O'Shea now. Even my wife thought he was funny.
    And please don't say the viewing figures were low. If they were its hardly suprising as there was never any promotion of the show on any other BBC Channel.

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  • 49. At 10:28pm on 29 Oct 2009, John Hibbert wrote:

    Not a good enough answer. Can you just get it into your heads that some people do not want to mess around on line etc. We just want to sit down in front of out tv's press red button and have the freeview facilities that we enjoyed before you took them away from us with total arrogance and no consultation. May I suggest that instead of excuses you eat humble pie and give us the date when news multiscreen etc will return

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  • 50. At 11:54am on 01 Nov 2009, Hyperstar wrote:

    F1 forum needs to be on BBC2 today

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  • 51. At 3:46pm on 01 Nov 2009, Adrian Ware wrote:

    Am I the only one who thinks HD on feeview is a good idea? It seems the BBC could have gone about things in a better way, but when is it ever possible to please all of the people all of the time? I understand people being upset about the possibility of losing some of their favourite programmes,( I am a bit concerned about Moto GP on 302 myself), but I trust the BBC to sort things out properly in the end. On balance, we must have HD offered on Freeview in my opinion, so let's just wait to see how things pan out before we all start attacking the Beeb,shall we?

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  • 52. At 4:46pm on 01 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #51. At 3:46pm on 01 Nov 2009, Adrian Ware wrote:

    "On balance, we must have HD offered on Freeview in my opinion,"

    Indeed we should, but not until after DSO is complete, when Ofcom can allow the needed spectrum to be used and not expect - until then HD belongs on either DVB-S or Cable. What you and others seem to be forgetting is that only a minority of viewers will be able to get this HD service (basically London) until DSO completion, so the MAJORITY of viewers are not going to get any benefit anyway, even if they own a HD television and buy (eventually, when they become available) an HD STB, thus most people are just seeing a reduction in services from the BBC.

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  • 53. At 5:16pm on 01 Nov 2009, James wrote:

    [We made the decision not to continue running these streams in areas which are yet to have digital switchover because, while technically it would be possible, editorially we can't run two different services in different parts of the country]

    You already run two different services in the country.

    In Scotland, you broadcast two radio stations not available in England, Wales or Northern Ireland. 719 BBC Radio Scotland, 720 BBC Radio Nan Gaidheal.

    In Wales, you broadcast two radio stations not available in Scotland, Northern Ireland or England. 719 BBC Wales, 720 BBC Radio Wales.

    In Northern Ireland, you broadcast two radio stations, not available in Scotland, England or Wales. 719 BBC Radio Ulster, 720 BBC Radio Foyle.

    Why is this, as the capacity is there, as 6 radio stations does not take up very much bandwidth?

    Yet, however, you have no problem broadcasting The Asian Network to all four parts of the UK.

    I don't think that is fair, as I'm sure that Scottish, Welsh and Irish people living outside their respective regions would enjoy listening to those radio stations.

    So, on that basis what is stopping you continuing to run the interactive services on 302 and news multi screens until a later date on pre DSO areas, such as Sandy Heath and Crystal Palace?

    [In all decisions involving trade offs some will be disappointed.]

    You mean, just like about everybody who has commented on these blogs.

    I really don't see why BBC Parliament can't be used for quite a lot of interactive content. BBC Parliament is only there to satisfy MPs egos, not to cater for the masses. Let's face it, most MPs don't even turn up at parliament most of the time, as they are supposedly working in their communities. There seems to be a huge amount of duplicated content on that channel, which figures show not that many people watch. If anything important happens in parliament, we can watch BBC News or Sky News on Freeview, look at the internet or watch umpteen news bulletins on various other Freeview channels.

    There are others things that could be done, but also maybe be not that popular.

    Instead of showing BBC News channel content on BBC 1, show interactive content.

    Instead of showing Ceefax pages on BBC 2, show interactive content.

    Merge CBBC with CBeebies, i.e. have just the one children's channel.

    Instead of showing umpteen repeats on BBC 3 and BBC 4, shown some interactive content.

    Oh yes, and while I'm at why not extend the broadcasting hours of BBC 3 and BBC 4 right up to the start times of CBBC and CBeebies. Some of us do work shifts and would enjoy a bit more useful programming in amongst the various gambling, teleshopping and phone a woman shows that OFCOM seem obsessed with bringing to the Freeview platform.

    Sorry, if some of this is a bit off topic, but I thought I just let my views be known about some BBC issues.

    Thanks.

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  • 54. At 7:18pm on 01 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    i am absoulutly disgusted wit the BBC wit the failure to show the F1 fourm 2day, insted wot do we get.........******* running in new-york. when r the BBC gunna admit the r tottaly wrong in this poxy call 2 deprive freeview viewers of sumthing we PAY 4. im still seeing no answer 2 the hundreds of points raised on this page, do u (BBC) even give a s*** about our wants n simple requests???? by the silence il take that as a 2 finger do one shall i????
    later yaw'll

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  • 55. At 9:14pm on 01 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #53. At 5:16pm on 01 Nov 2009, James wrote:

    "I really don't see why BBC Parliament can't be used for quite a lot of interactive content. BBC Parliament is only there to satisfy MPs egos, not to cater for the masses."

    Err, no, it's there to inform the public about what is done in our name.
    Perhaps BBC One should be closed, after all the content found on that channel can be found on many others, for example, want to watch a brain numbing TV soap then you have a couple to choose from on ITV1 each weekday evening...

    "Let's face it, most MPs don't even turn up at parliament most of the time, as they are supposedly working in their communities."

    If you actually bothered to watch BBC-P you would know that there is a lot more to being an MP at Westminster than just sitting in the debating chamber (or indeed carrying out constituency work away from Parliament), just because you don't see them on the green benches it doesn't mean that they are not working in a Committee Room or working in some Government Ministry or where ever, your ignorance proves why BBC-P is needed!

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  • 56. At 00:55am on 02 Nov 2009, James wrote:

    [Err, no, it's there to inform the public about what is done in our name.
    Perhaps BBC One should be closed, after all the content found on that channel can be found on

    many others, for example, want to watch a brain numbing TV soap then you have a couple to

    choose from on ITV1 each weekday evening...]

    You obviously can't close BBC 1. That would be ridiculous, so why mention it. BBC 1, by definition, is the BBCs flagship channel.

    The point being is that does BBC Parliament need to be on 24/7, 7 days a week? Like I said above, there is a lot of repetition on there. And if you remember, in the beginning, when BBC Parliament was first broadcast on Freeview, it wasn't even on 24/7 and only broadcast in a quarter screen.

    [If you actually bothered to watch BBC-P you would know that there is a lot more to being an

    MP at Westminster than just sitting in the debating chamber (or indeed carrying out

    constituency work away from Parliament), just because you don't see them on the green benches

    it doesn't mean that they are not working in a Committee Room or working in some Government

    Ministry or where ever, your ignorance proves why BBC-P is needed!]

    Nice.

    You think I don't know that MPs work outside of the chambers and work in their constituencies etc. I've even mentioned that in my previous post, namely 'as they are supposedly working in their communities'.

    Please read properly what I've written above next time.

    Thank you.

    Regards.

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  • 57. At 09:26am on 02 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #56. At 00:55am on 02 Nov 2009, James wrote:

    "You obviously can't close BBC 1. That would be ridiculous, so why mention it. BBC 1, by definition, is the BBCs flagship channel."

    Of course one could, one could close the whole BBC, the "flag-ship" channel is just the lead or most prominent channel, if BBC One was to close (and remember that some pro commercial/subscription television supporters have suggested that BBC One could be sold off...) either BBC2 or BBC4 would take over the roll. I'm not suggesting that BBC One should close, just that the same arguments used against BBC-P can be used against any other channel, some more so - see below.

    "The point being is that does BBC Parliament need to be on 24/7, 7 days a week? Like I said above, there is a lot of repetition on there. "

    Your point being what though, that is far more repetition on other channels, if you want to remove repetition from the Freeview platform (and remember that the issue is Freeview capacity here) how about Ofcom closing all the +1 channels and other none core channels such as shopping and gambling, if the BBC has to free up spectrum for 'Red Button' services then the BBC should not repeat programmes as they do each evening on BBC Three and BBC4 for example. Also BBC-P is the only channel than has pure politics, delivered without commentary or editorial opinions, unlike programmes such as "The News Channel" or "The Daily Politics".

    "You think I don't know that MPs work outside of the chambers and work in their constituencies etc. I've even mentioned that in my previous post, namely 'as they are supposedly working in their communities'.

    Please read properly what I've written above next time."


    I did, that is why I replied to what you wrote, if you knew otherwise why make the comment?!...

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  • 58. At 1:09pm on 02 Nov 2009, cthatcham wrote:

    Now that we've had two interactive channels removed from Freeview, what is going to happen to coverage of the Winter Olympics from Vancouver, Canada in February 2010?

    This is very much a retrograde move by the BBC.

    Will the Parliament channel be given over to the Winter Olympics, or will BBC Three show events (hopefully without the stupid pink DOG)?

    (Or is Sky going to get the rights and I won't get to see any of it?)

    Not everyone can afford a new tv and set top box for HD, and I've read that it won't be available on Freeview for several years anyway.

    It isn't exactly equitable to deprive us of the interactive service, just for the benefit of a few who have the money for HD.

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  • 59. At 1:45pm on 02 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #58. At 1:09pm on 02 Nov 2009, cthatcham wrote:

    "Will the Parliament channel be given over to the Winter Olympics"

    Unless Parliament is in recess it can't - but as there is a 8hr time difference between GMT and 'local time' - I would expect [1] the BBC to use all it's other available channels first, both BBC Three and Four and perhaps CBeebies and CBBC could combine for the duration - thus allowing one channel to become a "24hr Winter Olympics Channel".

    "(Or is Sky going to get the rights and I won't get to see any of it?)"

    No, the BBC are broadcasters for the 2010 Winter Games (and host?) for the 2012 Summer Games. Aren't the Olympics a protected sport in the UK anyway (?), never mind that the IOC demand that the prime rights are held by FTA broadcasters in each country, Murdoch couldn't get his mits on the rights even if he wanted them.

    [1] as a TVL payer who uses BBC-P and would like to have at least one extra BBC-P channel so that the Lords can be accessed in real time

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  • 60. At 7:36pm on 02 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    oh for the love of god 'boilerplated' we all kno ur married 2 the parliment channel an yes they can close it if they wanted 2 so how bout u stop attackin people who agree that BBC-P is a waste of money n freeview space, its irritating!!!!
    im still waitin 4 the folk who r ment 2 answer our Q's on here 2 start talkin!!!!!
    or r u hidin now becoz u kno u dropped a clanger?????
    later yaw'll

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  • 61. At 8:24pm on 02 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #60. At 7:36pm on 02 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "so how bout u stop attackin people who agree that BBC-P is a waste of money n freeview space, its irritating!!!!"

    Mirror mirror on the wall....

    Just accept that those who use/need BBC-P are as entitled to their viewing/opinion just as you are, in fact, probably more so as BBC-P is the only place were one can access pure politics in the UK outside of the Westminster 'bubble', unlike the typical content of BBC 3 for example.

    Oh, and whilst we are on about things being irritating, I wish that people would stop using Pigeon-English and text-peek all the time on the web.

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  • 62. At 8:39pm on 02 Nov 2009, Ian wrote:

    40. At 10:47am on 29 Oct 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    On the Channel 4 space question, I have a response from Rahul:

    In your response to your questions around whether capacity was available elsewhere on Freeview, the BBC Executive Board considered the option of taking up a slot currently occupied by one of Channel 4's services on the Digital 3/4 multiplex. However, it concluded that this option was not good value for money for the licence fee payer in this instance

    --
    Hang on, let me just make sure I've got this straight.

    In the wake of the ITV Digital failure, the BBC jointly created Freeview and saved DTT, and created a mass market digital platform so that everyone could 'go Digital', and so enable Ofcom to sell of the spectrum and make money. The BBC took the lead and did this.

    The BBC was awarded two multiplexes (its gifted mux 1 and the new mux B.) Now, in this loony Ofcom plan, the BBC for some reason has had to give up three quarters of one of its multiplexes, and in order to get one channel slot back in exchange for two lost, Ofcom expected the BBC to PAY for it?

    What? Has the world gone mad? Or am I completely misunderstanding this? It's OUR licence fee!

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  • 63. At 8:46pm on 02 Nov 2009, duncan wrote:

    I have read the various blogs, and the various posts form everyone and it seems like the decision the BBC has made is to give freeview red button users less for the same license fee.
    There will be loads of events which millions of people will no longer be able to access and watch.
    The reason seems to be just to give a few people the option to watch less events in HD. Okay HD pictures are good however, it is same story same sport same music but we will all just have less of it.
    The sooner Raul is given back his channel the better feel sorry for the chap having to try and make it work with less.
    Also are the BBC going to still advertise that such and such is on red button just to wind up the millions of freeview viewers!
    This weekend was such a disappointment.
    I have put in a complaint but heard nothing back yet.

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  • 64. At 11:24pm on 02 Nov 2009, Brekkie wrote:

    So here in North Wales digital switchover began last Wednesday - and the first so called "improvement" was seeing the BBCi coverage of the Magners League axed. Hows that for progress hey?

    The space needs to be found sooner rather than later to rectify this situation - considering the other muxes will all contain at least 8 channels, there is no reason why an extra one can't be added to the BBC's mux too.

    Failing that it's BBC Parliament which should be sacrificed in the short term - really rubbing it in our faces revealing the new political iPlayer today, which offers a service much more appropriate for parliament coverage than a linear TV channel.

    And something I've mentioned before and IIRC it's something you were looking at implementing - having the alternative audio options directly on the BBC1/2 video streams rather than a separate interactive stream. That's practically a necessity now.

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  • 65. At 00:04am on 03 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #64. At 11:24pm on 02 Nov 2009, Brekkie wrote:

    "Failing that it's BBC Parliament which should be sacrificed in the short term"

    Another person who deserves their right to vote removed!

    Stop being selfish, it's not as though you have lost all your sport, is it, that would be the effect of removing BBC-P from the DVB-T platform -0 feel free to inform us on which Freeview channel one can find pure politics without editorial spin or comment?...

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  • 66. At 10:15am on 03 Nov 2009, James wrote:

    [Of course one could, one could close the whole BBC, the "flag-ship" channel is just the lead or most prominent channel, if BBC One was to close (and remember that some pro commercial/subscription television supporters have suggested that BBC One could be sold off...)]

    Well they would wouldn't they. I've seen all the anti BBC discussion on sites like digitalspy, but frankly it's irrelevant on this here blog.

    [(and remember that the issue is Freeview capacity here) how about Ofcom closing all the +1 channels and other none core channels such as shopping and gambling,]

    A. Because OFCOM won't, just at the request of the BBC. Not at the moment anyway. B. The BBC essentially have to try and use their own mux space effectively, not space on the commercial muxes. C. You can't assume that even if those channels disappeared, the BBC would be awarded any of the slots, as presumably they would go to the highest bidder, rather than be gifted to the BBC.

    Anyway, right now this is a discussion about what the BBC can offer on their public service muxes, not what may or not be available on the commercial muxes, which is for another thread. The only issue may be the Channel 4 space.

    [if the BBC has to free up spectrum for 'Red Button' services then the BBC should not repeat programmes as they do each evening on BBC Three and BBC4 for example.]

    I do believe I suggested that above.

    [I did, that is why I replied to what you wrote, if you knew otherwise why make the comment?!...]

    I made the comment, as clearly you didn't read my reply properly. Are you just arguing for arguments sake?

    You can't get away from the fact that BBC Parliament has very low viewing figures. It's a very niche channel. It doesn't need to be on 24/7 7 days a week, IMO and it seems I'm not alone with that view. Some of that time could be used for interactive services.

    [oh for the love of god 'boilerplated' we all kno ur married 2 the parliment channel]

    Apparently so.

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  • 67. At 12:46pm on 03 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    66. At 10:15am on 03 Nov 2009, James wrote:

    "oh for the love of god 'boilerplated' we all kno ur married 2 the parliment channel"

    Whilst some of you seems to be married to sport...

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  • 68. At 6:52pm on 03 Nov 2009, Brekkie wrote:

    The point is parliament doesn't need a full time channel, especially as parliament is in session as little as the MPs can get away with. I'm not saying coverage should be axed - just the space used to benefit the most number of viewers at the times the space is required.

    There is no reason why live streaming from Parliament couldn't be offered via the red button most of the week, and when other services are fighting for the space a judgement can be made on what benefits the majority of licence payers the most.


    After all, BBC Parliament is just a channel the BBC think should be of interest to it's viewers, rather than a channel the viewers demand.

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  • 69. At 7:06pm on 03 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    if i wnt 2 use txt spk on ere den i will it aint 4 u 2 dictate wot n how i rite boilerplated yea n who r u 2 say sum1 diserves their right 2 vote be denided?????
    u love the BBC-P channel others dont, get over it coz u an its boring me lifeless.

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  • 70. At 9:25pm on 03 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #68. At 6:52pm on 03 Nov 2009, Brekkie wrote:

    "The point is parliament doesn't need a full time channel, especially as parliament is in session as little as the MPs can get away with. I'm not saying coverage should be axed - just the space used to benefit the most number of viewers at the times the space is required."

    You have just proved that you simply do not understand the concept of BBC-P, nor have you ever bothered to watch it for a week.

    The BBC has FOUR or FIVE other channels to show sport on, and it is shown, if you can't see what you want then tuff (it's called life), stop trying to take the ONE and ONLY channel that screens pure politics inn the UK away.

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  • 71. At 9:34pm on 03 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #69

    Feel free to make yourself look illiterate then! Not everyone (in the world) knows about or understands text-speak, many will just see your comments as very poor English - thus any opinion you express gets diminished, if it's read at all...

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  • 72. At 6:53pm on 04 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    oh dear boilerplated u r a sorry little boy realy aint ya!!!!!
    im far from illiterate thank u very much an for u 2 even suggest that i am illiterate shows how much disregard an mature-ity ur in possesion of an supprised that u got the time 2 post ur pathetic lil childish comments on here instead of basking in ur own reflection in the mirror!!!!! my opinion is as valid on here as any1 elce's an you have no right 2 suggest otherwise ok! if i was the BBC Parliment channel id divorce ya!!! later yaw'll

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  • 73. At 9:14pm on 04 Nov 2009, duncan wrote:

    BBC parliament is important and I have watched it some of the committee sessions are quiet reviling.
    However, it is all about balance and there are occasions at weekends when it could be put over to sport and in week red button 302 could be used to show other sessions rather than yet another showing of Shirley bassey , or Robbie Williams!
    The whole process has been badly handled and to lose the red button now way in advance of any HD (even if people want it ) programing is very disappointing.
    and I wish they would not say "watch it on red button" when we can not on freeview like Jake did for F1 forum on saturday.

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  • 74. At 09:08am on 05 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    72. At 6:53pm on 04 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "oh dear boilerplated u r a sorry little boy realy aint ya!!!!!
    im far from illiterate thank u very much an for u 2 even suggest that i am illiterate shows how much disregard an mature-ity ur in possesion of an supprised that u got the time 2 post ur pathetic lil childish comments on here instead of basking in ur own reflection in the mirror!!!!! my opinion is as valid on here as any1 elce's an you have no right 2 suggest otherwise ok! if i was the BBC Parliment channel id divorce ya!!! later yaw'll"


    Well you certainly come over as such, and the above rant prove you are, hardly a capital letter, with next to no punctuation either, you are either illiterate or trolling...

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  • 75. At 09:39am on 05 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    73. At 9:14pm on 04 Nov 2009, DEmery wrote:

    "BBC parliament is important and I have watched it some of the committee sessions are quiet reviling.
    However, it is all about balance and there are occasions at weekends when it could be put over to sport"


    Why should sport take preference over politics on the ONE AND ONLY channel to carry pure politics - and politics doesn't stop on a Friday anyway, you might not want to watch CSPAN but many do, also when should BBC-P broadcast the coverage from the devolved parliaments, when should they broadcast extended coverage of the select committees, when should the various "Briefings" programmes be broadcast etc? It seems to me, looking at the BBC-P (full week) schedule there is hardly time to fit a cup of tea in, never mind a football match!

    Even during Parliaments recess politics carries on, during the last Olympics when the BBC-P channel was given over to an extra 'Red Button' stream it was on the understanding that parliament came first and should it be recalled then BBC-P would resume without fail, thus nothing can be scheduled with any certainty on the channel (I can just hear the hollows of protest should a sporting events have been scheduled to take over the BBC-P channel but Parliament then have to sit at the weekend!), even pre-recorded political contenthas to give way to live coverage of the Commons.

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  • 76. At 10:45am on 05 Nov 2009, tinman wrote:

    It is shocking that the BBC are going to remove the video weather forecast with the news multicreen. It may not be important to people who work indoors in Offices (Like most of the BBC) but for us outdoor workers it is essential. It is not allays convenient or practical to have to wait on a pc booting up then have to sit through lots of buffering (due to congestion on the o2 network) or wait on it coming on the bbc news channel,just to watch the weather....the text forecast is never accurate or updated often enough. Please reconsider BBC and bring the video weather forecast back to freeview!!!!

    Plus all this talk of Mpeg4 for HD, this is not showing forethought on the BBC's behalf. Australia are alredy preparing for mpeg5 for their digital channels. Does this mean that another couple of years down the line we will all have to get rid of our hd tvs and boxes and buy new compatible mpeg5 boxes and tvs?

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  • 77. At 7:34pm on 05 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 78. At 8:32pm on 05 Nov 2009, Brekkie wrote:

    For somebody who thinks democracy is so important, boilerplated seems to have little respect for free speech.

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  • 79. At 9:47pm on 05 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #78. At 8:32pm on 05 Nov 2009, Brekkie wrote:

    For somebody who thinks democracy is so important, boilerplated seems to have little respect for free speech.

    Mirror hanging on the wall...

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  • 80. At 3:48pm on 06 Nov 2009, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Re Message 76

    Try downloading the information on Andrew Bowden's blog spot at
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pressred/2009/05/pagenumberlist.shtml.

    I know the text version is not as good as multiscreen Human Being talking but at least it's on the telly.

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  • 81. At 7:21pm on 06 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    so some1 on here is permitted 2 brand me illiterate yet i make a point about them bein all gob an not much elce (thats not wantin 2 fight) an i get thrown off!!!!!!!!!!how ironic that is. an boilerplated u have NO regard for other peoples oppinoins thats all to easy 2 see on here. later yaw'll

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  • 82. At 8:01pm on 06 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #81. At 7:21pm on 06 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "so some1 on here is permitted 2 brand me illiterate

    But that is NOT what was being said, by using "text-speek" you appear to be illiterate because you use texting language. What do you not understand about the fact that not everyone knows about "text-speek" never mind how to read it?

    "boilerplated u have NO regard for other peoples oppinoins"

    I have every respect for your opinion or anyone else's (in fact that is one of the reasons I defend BBC-P, all I ask is that you return the flavour, by actually bothering to try and discuss the issues and not just rant like an illiterate mobile phone that has sttttgiiicky Kkkkeys, knnnnowwwwww whaaattt IIII mean Like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • 83. At 8:36pm on 06 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    there is peice on BBC NEWS channel at 8:45pm 2nite about the removal of multiscreen an 302
    boilerplated go away n grow up
    later yaw'll

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  • 84. At 8:55pm on 06 Nov 2009, duncan wrote:

    about time they deleted / changed this page

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2007/09/freeview_or_digital_or_bbci.html

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  • 85. At 9:42pm on 06 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    83. At 8:36pm on 06 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "boilerplated go away n grow up"

    Showing your true colours again I see.

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  • 86. At 10:02pm on 06 Nov 2009, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Watched Newswatch just now on the Player

    Two things: why does the Player still give the 0870 number for Newswatch.

    And please would Pete Clifton reconsider the notion that Multiscreen will only be available for Freeviewers with broadband connection?

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  • 87. At 7:06pm on 07 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    right boilerplated let get sumthing abundently clear yea
    A) u dont kno me as a person
    B) u dont kno me as a carracter
    C) i have zero respect for people who call me illiterate
    so how the hell do u proclaim to kno if im showin my true colours eh
    wot is this, just purly for ur gratification or u always single out sum1 to stay on!!!!
    i watched the newswatch an was very dissapointed with the time it got an the bloke they interviewed in how brash an unsympathetic to it all. later yaw'll

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  • 88. At 9:42pm on 07 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #87. At 7:06pm on 07 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    C) i have zero respect for people who call me illiterate

    Did you actually bother reading my comment at #82 before firing off your latest rant, I suspect not. :-(

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  • 89. At 7:15pm on 08 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    yes i did read ur post and all other post's aswell, thats y i replyed with wot i put.
    any1 had problems with accessing this site in the last 24hrs or is it just me!!!!! lol
    later yaw'll

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  • 90. At 8:48pm on 08 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    re the comment at @ #89:

    Can someone please post an "text-speek" to standard English translation please...

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  • 91. At 10:57pm on 08 Nov 2009, dcwinter wrote:

    I don't think you actually care what any of us think. Besides, you've clearly made your mind up that you're going to spend our money on a service we can't access.

    I'm just utterly disgusted with the BBC for this stupid decision!

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  • 92. At 7:30pm on 09 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    boilerplated has just confirmed that they are rude, ignorant and thinks they are above all elce. if u car'nt read my post then get back 2 school, failing that grow up ya little child, u realy r pathetic an no more that a faceless bully type of individual.
    any1 hopin the BBC are gunna change there mind now is hopefull, im not expecting to see reinstatement of a service i pay for, the BBC dont care about the licence payer do they.
    later yaw'll

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  • 93. At 8:25pm on 09 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #92. At 7:30pm on 09 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    Thanks for making this blog unreadable, you're nothing but a "pizzle".

    "u realy r pathetic an no more that a faceless bully type of individual."

    Talking about yourself again...

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  • 94. At 7:51pm on 10 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "Talking about yourself again..." wot is this school ground tittle-tattle now?? and how dare u acuse me of makin this blog unreadable! ur the 1 who has singled out some1 for self gratifcation becoz i disagree with ur opinon regarding the parliment channel, except u wer'nt xpecting me 2 bite back at you!! this is ment 2 be a blog at expressing distain at the BBC for scrappin multiscreen an 302 not a 2week long row.
    its simple, we aint goin 2 agree with each other so how bout we just give it a rest ehh ??
    later yaw'll

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  • 95. At 8:49pm on 10 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #94. At 7:51pm on 10 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "Talking about yourself again..." wot is this school ground tittle-tattle now?? and how dare u acuse me of makin this blog unreadable!ur the 1 who has singled out some1 for self gratifcation becoz i disagree with ur opinon regarding the parliment channel


    Err, lets just remind ourselves of how you replied to me...

    [quote]
    "#60. At 7:36pm on 02 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    oh for the love of god 'boilerplated' we all kno ur married 2 the parliment channel..//..
    "
    [/unquote]

    ...so yes, you were talking about yourself.

    As I said, you sure are one sure pizzle, your real name isn't Richard by any chance, the name would sure be appropriate.

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  • 96. At 11:23am on 11 Nov 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    Obviously there is a lot of passion on this subject, and there's a wide range of views to be had on it.

    However can I just remind everyone that you should respect other posters and not get too personal with other people on this blog.

    thanks

    Andrew

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  • 97. At 12:18pm on 11 Nov 2009, Mr-Angry-dave-kent wrote:

    Its a great shame that the limited bandwidth of this potentially great service has been wasted on so much rubbish. does anyone ever listen to radio on their TV? I doubt it. 24 radio stations could all be removed. Add in the other TV channels including the so called lifestyle ones and those of dubious worth plus the encrypted ones that so far in my work I have never seen anyone use and you have to ask why are there these 23 or so worthless channels there. Ofcom needs to seriously reconsider the bandwidth allocation. Soft porn, parliament, bid up, gambling, text dating. Surely someone somewhere has taken their eye off the ball here.

    Since there are no current hi def Freeview boxes then surely the spec is still on the drawing board. Rather than duplicating the transmissions to give two BBC1 channels in both definitions surely a double multiplex should be in place to save bandwidth. If you get my meaning as an example a black and white TV could view colour TV pictures so a standard Freeview box should just not see the extra data in an adjacent or additionally multiplexed feed that would upgrade the quality of the channel to hi def. Engineering surely cannot come up with something that works like that.

    Meanwhile those without cable TV in Hi Def from Virgin fibre network will migrate back to Sky. Do we want to give Sky leaverage ? I think not.

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  • 98. At 3:20pm on 11 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #97. At 12:18pm on 11 Nov 2009, davidtutt wrote:

    "Its a great shame that the limited bandwidth of this potentially great service has been wasted on so much rubbish. does anyone ever listen to radio on their TV? I doubt it."

    I suspect that you'll find many more people than you think do just that, remember that not all areas have DAB and where it is available many consider it worse than the equivalent FM service, also remember that the BBC World Service is only available via the BBC's digital services (DAB, IP-Radio streaming, DVB-T and S) in the UK.

    "If you get my meaning as an example a black and white TV could view colour TV pictures so a standard Freeview box should just not see the extra data in an adjacent or additionally multiplexed feed that would upgrade the quality of the channel to hi def. Engineering surely cannot come up with something that works like that."

    Haven't they already developed such a system, the problem is that it would be more like the change from VHF to UHF rather than the backwards compatibility of the UHF system (that you outlined above), many don't like the thought of having to pay for both a new STB/DVB-TV and aerial...

    "Meanwhile those without cable TV in Hi Def from Virgin fibre network will migrate back to Sky. Do we want to give Sky leaverage ? I think not."

    If it means keeping BBC-P on DVB-T, yes - and I say tat as someone who thinks that Murdoch is the worst thing that has ever happened to UK media! Anyway, would people actually go down the "Sky" route, as far as I know BSkyB doesn't actually offer any subscription free HD services, nor does Virgin, people who would otherwise have bought into 'Freeview' HD will just buy into 'Freesat' HD surely?

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  • 99. At 7:23pm on 11 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    if u removed the +1 channels u cud use the space for sumthing gud, the amount of shopping channels are obscene an thats alot of wasted mux space. I agree with the post about radio channels also, the service is called freeview not 'freelisten'. FIVE-USA off air for partyland, Fiver off air for TVX, virgin1+1 for a babestation channel ect, but they do it because its a money maker. The obsession with HD is pointless on freeview because its gunna be wot, 200-quid for the box!!! then an iPlayer one the cost again is allot to splash out an all for 4 HD channels that are perfectly gud in standard def, an a version of iPlayer that wont be much gud anyway. we all want answers to our Q's but the only reply given is "lets not get personal with each other"
    Boilerplated if u read the entire of my post u might of seen that i put on there as such "lets agree 2 disagree" u got petty again! why?? an why do u ask if name is richard?? this is ment for venting views about the BBC not u or me,
    later yaw'll

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  • 100. At 8:18pm on 11 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    99. At 7:23pm on 11 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "why do u ask if name is richard??"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard

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  • 101. At 8:42pm on 11 Nov 2009, Ian wrote:

    Further to my own comment #62 - where I exclaimed at the madness of the BBC being required to pay for an additional slot on Multiplex 2 (in exchange for two lost), given that the BBC created Freeview which is allowing the spectrum sell off in the first place.

    I've been thinking about this - perhaps my outrage was misplaced. If Ofcom expected the BBC to pay for one slot on Mux 2, perhaps the BBC is *making* cash from giving away essentially three quarters of Multiplex B? (Quite aside from the making cash from selling off all the slots in the interim on a temporary basis.) In which case, the BBC is gaining cash from handing back so much of mux B? In which case there is no excuse for not acquiring that extra slot on mux 2.

    If this is the case, it wasn't solely the fault of the crazy Ofcom HD plan that we've lost 302, it might also have been a BBC money-based decision?

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  • 102. At 07:19am on 12 Nov 2009, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    One argument for keeping radio stations on Freeview is to so thet blind and visually impaired people don't need to switch off and on again when wanting to go from a television programme with Audio Description to listening to a Radio Programme. Recording DAB onto an SD card works, but so does recording Radio on your TV set onto Video Tape, DVD or Hard Drive.

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  • 103. At 1:09pm on 13 Nov 2009, cthatcham wrote:


    I love to listen to the radio via my Freeview box - and the fact that with my PVR I can record comedy programmes and plays transmitted while I'm at work, to listen to later.

    Living in a valley, I have very poor radio reception from an ordinary radio - so listening via Freeview is really my only option.

    By connecting my stereo system to the Freeview box I can listen with the TV switched off, saving the tv from screen burn.

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  • 104. At 7:17pm on 13 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    were i live i get appaling DAB radio coverage, an the points raised about freeview space being used 4 digital radio is valid, i do feel that more spade shud be give 2 TV channels as opposed 2 just audio channels. my mum does that with the radio on via her freeview box an the telly off lol. the txt channels from teletext are far 2 many also i feel.
    Are we gunna get a decent reply from the BBC regarding our points?? or do u just take our money an not give a cr*p with our concern's???
    later yaw'll

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  • 105. At 9:22pm on 13 Nov 2009, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Well, "Teletext's news and information service is switching off in December 2009. But Teletext will still operate commercial services including Teletext Holidays, Teletext Cars, Teletext Games and various services for mobile phones.

    "Teletext Holidays on Freeview channel 101; commercial channels on Freeview channels 102-107; and [various] websites will all continue.

    "Owner Associated Newspapers confirmed the decision to close the editorial service, saying it had been loss-making in recent years and no viable business model could be found.

    "Services ending in December 2009 are as follows:
    * Teletext on ITV, C4 and FIVE on analogue TV
    * On Freeview: Teletext on ITV and C4, 100, the Teletext Extra news service
    * Teletext on ITV and C4 on Sky
    * Editorial on Channel 986 on Freesat.

    "Switch-off is in advance of the originally announced date of January 2010 to allow the process to be as smooth as possible on all platforms, technically and operationally. News about exact dates will appear on page 139.

    "Subscribers to most SMS alerts will continue to receive services beyond December.

    "Subtitles on p888 analogue are separate and will also continue beyond December."

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  • 106. At 10:46am on 14 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #105. At 9:22pm on 13 Nov 2009, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    "Well, "Teletext's news and information service is switching off in December 2009. [../cut/..]"

    Err, and this has what exactly to do with the BBC 'Red Button' services, it doesn't even have anything to do with the BBC's analogue Ceefax services... Duh!

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  • 107. At 7:18pm on 14 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    i think sue_aitch was making refrence 2 wasted freeview space, the likes of the tosh that teletext broadcast's, an how rude!!!!!!
    later yaw'll

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  • 108. At 9:10pm on 14 Nov 2009, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    #107. At 7:18pm on 14 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    "i think sue_aitch was making refrence 2 wasted freeview space"

    I assume you mean "to", not refrence two, but if you do mean the latter can you point out her reference (number) one?

    How ITV use their space is not something that the BBC has any control about, thus it's off topic here, or at least totally irrelivant.

    "how rude!!!!!"

    Yes, writing in 'text-speek' on the internet is being very rude, hopefully you will find a clue one day Richard, one day you will stop being such a pizzle to us all.

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  • 109. At 09:04am on 15 Nov 2009, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Boilerplated and pikester13 for your comments.

    At 105, the point I was picking up the reference in post 104 to the number of Teletext-run Text Channels; as BBC Red Button also runs Text channels, I thought the information might be useful to some.

    For Andrew Bowden , if you're still following this thread, please has there been any decision about including an equivalent service to http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast/tides since BBC REd Button and Ceefax do not yet have pages covering Tide Times?

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  • 110. At 7:10pm on 15 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 111. At 10:49am on 16 Nov 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    Sue - as far as I know, there's no immediate plans to change the Weather service on BBC Red Button or Ceefax to include them

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  • 112. At 4:26pm on 16 Nov 2009, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Thank you for your reply, Andrew. Guess I'm going tohave to tune in to Local Radio to get this information once Teletxt finishes its main Text services on 14/15 December.

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  • 113. At 7:13pm on 20 Nov 2009, pikester13 wrote:

    wow its soooooo quiet on here now lol
    why its it that i appeled against my comment bein removed an had zero reply from the BBC moderaters???? lil suspect me tinks!!
    so we aint gunna get a u turn on the removing of 302 n multiscreen, such a shame 2!!
    later yaw'll

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  • 114. At 7:05pm on 25 Nov 2009, duncan wrote:

    Some of us are still unhappy at changes and loss of 302.
    But what do us viewers matter who can't afford or don't want cable or satellite
    BBC don't seem to care about the masses

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  • 115. At 12:10pm on 16 Dec 2009, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Please when will the BBC Trust's findings on its public consultation on Red Button be published?

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  • 116. At 1:35pm on 16 Dec 2009, DisgustedOfMitcham2 wrote:

    I have a simple question:

    How did you take into account the opinions of your licence fee payers when you made the decision to downgrade your red button service?

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  • 117. At 10:23am on 21 Dec 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    Sue - I'm told the consultation results and the BBC Trust's findings will be released in the spring and will be published on the BBC Trust website. We'll make sure it's linked to from this blog when it happens.

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  • 118. At 12:50pm on 22 Dec 2009, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Many thanks, Andrew. I hope the Help section 9990 might find room for a precis of the findings. Thank you to you and the team for the Red Button services and for the remaining Ceefax services.

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  • 119. At 4:40pm on 06 Jan 2010, julian wrote:

    Does anyone have any ideas as to why with the remaining freeview channel 301 is unavailable to view? Since the retune at the end of September, whenever there is something on the red button you click on the red button and an automated message states that 'at the current time this service is temporarily unavailable'. It has been since October so I was wondering if there is an easy fix?

    Any comments much appreciated.

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  • 120. At 1:30pm on 08 Jan 2010, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Julian, as you have posted twice, here's the info again.
    Try the advice on http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/news/index.shtml#freeviewboxes

    301 is fine here in BBC London on the TVOnics and Panasonic Boxes I have

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  • 121. At 9:36pm on 10 Jan 2010, julian wrote:

    Sue

    Many thanks for your help. I have had a look at the info however I am still experiencing problems. I have two TV's with inbuild freeview (no boxes) and live in the Kent area. Neither picks up 301. The signal for 301 is only 40% so this may be the problem, however it was fine before the retune and neighbours can get 301. There does not appear to be any contact numbers for further help.

    Any further suggestions would be much appreciated.

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  • 122. At 09:51am on 11 Jan 2010, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    re comments @ #121

    Julian, if your neighbours are receiving LCN-301 but you're not it does suggest that the problem is with your equipment or very local issues with reception (old or miss aligned aerial, old down lead etc. There is one other thing to check though, if you are using a video recorder (with RF loop-through) try taking the recorder out of circuit and see if that makes any difference to what the TV can receive [1], especially if you are in a weak DVB-T signal area.

    [1] might need to do a re-scan

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  • 123. At 11:52am on 12 Jan 2010, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Do you also have problems getting the BBC Radio Channels, Jlina: it may be that the aeriel isn't picking the multiplex as well as your neighbours' does.
    There are manufacturers' helpline numbers on http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/info/helplines.shtml

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  • 124. At 10:23pm on 12 Jan 2010, pikester13 wrote:

    my suggestion wud be 2 rescan your box or pull the power plug out.
    my box is very sensitive sumtimes an disconnecting the power sorts it out.
    if ur still havin problems go to the freeview website www.freeview.co.uk an make sure that ur in a freeview hot area
    later yaw'll

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  • 125. At 08:32am on 04 Mar 2010, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    The Neation onf Wales DSO will complete on 31 March 2010 (see Ceefax pages 283, 284 and 697 subpage 1) so,please, Andrew, are there any plans to bring the TV Charity pages and other at-the-moment-Ceefax-only services over to Red Button?

    Full List: BBC 2 only pp 227 Working Lucnh , 630-634 BBC Learing, 460, 461 and 470 - pages that contain information also broadcast on Channel 4 Teletext NHS Choice pages 700-749 Direct Gov pages 750-799, BBC 1 Only 650, 651 and 659 Links to R3 and R4 progrmmaes BBC 1 and BBC 2 615, 619 and links to BBC One and BBC Wales Cymru programmes, page 180 Regional and National news contacts, and also parts of page 695 BBC Information and pages 697 and 698 concerning FM and DAB Radio reception tips and 568 Chess!

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  • 126. At 1:21pm on 04 May 2010, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Once more, please Red Button Team, would you revise page 9990?

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  • 127. At 5:28pm on 04 May 2010, TV Licence fee payer against BBC censorship wrote:

    Sue_Aitch, help me out, why your apparent fascination with the (digital) teletext services when you appear to have internet connectivity, can't remember the last time I used Ceefax and the DVB-T/S equivalent is so 'clunky' that it's as fast to wake the computer out of stand-by and go surfing...

    I personally don't see much of a need/point for such a digital-text service and if/when there is the UK wide broadband roll-out that all political parties seem to be talking about I can only see less of a need (even more so should the UK make use of something like the US WebTV,now MSN TV, technology to allow basic Internet access via the TV set).

    Serious, genuine, question: How would you justify the continuation/expansion of the service?

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  • 128. At 9:22pm on 17 May 2010, Sue_Aitch wrote:

    Well, I do use Ceefax and Red Button when I am relaxing in front of the TV and I do use the laptop in my study. The laptop doesn't come with me on holiday but most self-catering places and hotels where I stay when away have TVs. So I like both services. And I use the internet for work too.

    I know plenty of people who won't have the internet installed at home and who are content with their 20 year old plus Telly.

    " ... BBC Red Button Changes on Freeview"? Yes, please.

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  • 129. At 08:00am on 22 May 2010, Tessber wrote:

    As 72 year old lady, who has difficulty keeping up with Digital, HD etc, all I look forward to all year is to watch the Tennis, it's my hobby and my passion, I used to play a lot in my youth. As I can't afford Sky Sports subscription I bought a Freeview box, thinking this would do the job. I am bitterly disappointed to find that the opening day of Roland Garros French Open Championships will not be shown on Freeview. Could somebody explain to me why not? I agree with Andrew Broad, I don't see the point in the Digital revolution, at a time when money is scarce, and we are trying hard to "save the planet." I don't like HD TV, and I like my large collection of Video cassettes, I'm happy with that.

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