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PM Glass Box

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Eddie Mair | 17:45 UK time, Friday, 16 July 2010


Every night at 6pm, the PM production team gathers in a large glass box to talk about how the programme went.

THIS is your opportunity to do the same. Please leave your comment for tonight's editor Jeremy Rawlins to read.


  • 1. At 5:59pm on 16 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 2. At 5:59pm on 16 Jul 2010, Anne P wrote:

    I have just choked over my tea with respect to a certain phrase used about Kelvin MacKenzie, which I strongly suspect would get modded if I used it here! I'm still chuckling.

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  • 3. At 6:02pm on 16 Jul 2010, Redheylin wrote:

    Eddie M., you are great.

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  • 4. At 6:04pm on 16 Jul 2010, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    Having heard the PM letters, wouldn't it be better if you stopped taking emails and encouraged them all to join the blog so we could have discussed/added to the points made ourselves, and maybe the senders could further contribute here.

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  • 5. At 6:26pm on 16 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    I love to be right.

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  • 6. At 6:27pm on 16 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    You just can't learn that sort of irony.

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  • 7. At 6:39pm on 16 Jul 2010, Redheylin wrote:

    Ellis P. may I ask you something, as a kind favour? I'd been thinking of calling someone a pillock and I was just wondering if you'd mind, since you seem so thoroughly decent, allowing me to address you in that fashion, just this once, please? I'd like to stress that I'd never do such a thing if it might cause any offence whatsoever, but I'd really appreciate it if you'd find yourself able.

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  • 8. At 6:41pm on 16 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:

    redheylin - shouldn't we maintain the pretence of democracy round here by having a vote?

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  • 9. At 6:45pm on 16 Jul 2010, Ian Blackburn wrote:

    Just caught the last minute or so of pm in the car and heard the telephone call. But I don't know what it was all about and it doesn't appear to be available on iplayer. Anyone fill me in on the background?

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  • 10. At 6:47pm on 16 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    redheylin - you may call me a pillock, if you so wish. To be honest I don't know what one is, I may google it later, probably tomorrow.

    Sid, I may get upset if everyone agrees I am though ;-)

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  • 11. At 6:50pm on 16 Jul 2010, darkdesign wrote:

    At this time, Google is showing a result from this blog which is less than complimentary about a certain media figure. Am I to assume it was the modded comment in the no 1 spot? No doubt it will disappear completely soon, but I should like to endorse the content.

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  • 12. At 6:52pm on 16 Jul 2010, Redheylin wrote:

    8) Of course, if anybody would themselves object, or else perceive a case where any other individual might conceivably object, to my addressing Ellis P in such a fashion, their views certainly deserve the fullest consideration. A vote is not necessary since one should defer even to a minority - may I say, especially to a minority? - that found such a procedure in any way unacceptable. I'd not proceed with my entirely benevolent whim in such a case, I assure you.

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  • 13. At 6:54pm on 16 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:

    Ellis - depends what it turns out to mean, really ... but anyway, I was thinking we could ask Mac to design a voting system that no one could understand - shouldn't take him a minute.

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  • 14. At 6:56pm on 16 Jul 2010, Redheylin wrote:

    10 - Dear Ellis, I am deeply indebted to you, and can only offer my greatest respect for you as a human being (if, as I trust, you do not find such presumption odious). I suspect, by the way, the expression in question may originate in a Shakespearean idiomatic reference to an anatomical feature unique to the male vertebrate. Anyhow, you're a complete Mackenzie.

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  • 15. At 7:04pm on 16 Jul 2010, annasee wrote:

    Eddie are you turning into a shock jock with that call to Kelvin McKenzie? Just because the new Headmistress has only just arrived, and probably hasn't quite learnt everyones' names yet, doesn't mean you can start pushing the envelope, behaviour-wise you know...She'll have her eye on you and young Paddy O'Connell now, you'd better put those paper darts away quickly. And the bottle of ink.

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  • 16. At 7:05pm on 16 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    redheylin - and I'm equally sure you won't be upset if I suggest you are beginning to write in the style of Stephen Fry :-)

    Still - Jeremy Rawlins, you've got some explaining to do, Old Sport.

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  • 17. At 7:08pm on 16 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:

    Baaaaaa ....

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  • 18. At 7:17pm on 16 Jul 2010, Redheylin wrote:

    16 Absolutely not, old toff, I welcome all such informed criticism in a spirit of appreciation of the value of fair comment and the freedom to express it. But SF was not the first to rediscover the elaborate and unctuous ponderousness of Victorian literary style, I must say. It just seemed appropriate, that is all. The broad looked at me like I threw up on her. "what's a has-been gumshoe like you care?" she snarled - but what a snarl! It pierced me to deep places I'd long forgotten, made me pity her, made me want her.

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  • 19. At 7:37pm on 16 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    Ah - That self important, ignorant, Kelvin Mackenzie moment. Wonderful!

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  • 20. At 7:41pm on 16 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    6 - Alan N. The delicacies of moderation.

    I was expecting a tick off for defamation, which I would have disputed all the way to God, however they did me for provocation, a rule I didn't know existed.

    It is not permitted to say anything if it is considered likely to provoke, attack or offend others.

    "Provoke" - now there's a weasel word for the lawyers if ever I saw one. In the context of the programme that this particular thread relates to being the PM programme on 16 July 2010 which can be listened to again for a week, I understand, the moderators got this wrong. Still they obey a ruleset that does not allow for judgement and discretion so ...

    ... so be it.

    What do you say Mr Producer, Jeremy?

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  • 21. At 8:17pm on 16 Jul 2010, Anne P wrote:

    Ian @ 9, altho' I only heard part of the original, the telephone call today related to an item in which KM defended the use of abusive language by a radio interviewer who called the person he was talking to a member of a certain National Socialist Party among other things.

    You see how carefully I have to tread to avoid being modded. A correspondent to the programme asked Eddie if he could refer to MacKenzie as a {insert phrase here, ending in a word like pill pot}. If fellow froggers above have not yet been modded for using the word you will get my drift.

    I guess anyone tuning in without the context will have thought Eddie had finally completely lost it!

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  • 22. At 8:25pm on 16 Jul 2010, artifus wrote:

    nice to be in on an in joke i guess?...

    all in moderation, of course...

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  • 23. At 8:29pm on 16 Jul 2010, Redheylin wrote:

    Technically, I believe, one cannot provoke a person. One can provoke a reaction from a person, certainly - that's why the blog exists.

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  • 24. At 8:54pm on 16 Jul 2010, lucien desgai wrote:

    I believe that many little a little person has been provoked following a good night out involving a drink too many. Not by me, I hasten to add.

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  • 25. At 9:00pm on 16 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    Oxbridge tosh of ther day:

    From Mr Justice Mitting, of Trinity Hall, where he is held to have learnt law:

    He added: "Apart from a terrorist outrage, it is difficult to conceive of circumstances in which one man could account for so many victims"

    Oh, dear. Dunblane, the taxi driver, Bomber Harris over Dresden, the Yanks over Hiroshima, allied rockets and bombs fired in Afghanistan.

    One man's and one woman's finger on the trigger and the button.

    This twerp refused to allow, for a whole year, NHS doctors to exercise their Hippocratic responsibilites, to treat asylum seekers with NHS resources (operating theatres etc).

    Apart from a terrorist outrage, it is difficult to conceive of circumstances in which one man could account for so many victims.

    I awear they get this tosh from Oxbridge or make it up themselves and pass it on there.

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  • 26. At 9:26pm on 16 Jul 2010, Lady_Sue wrote:

    Have to agree with the above comments with reference to Eddie being ever so naughty - I was shocked, stunned and hugely amused simultaneously. It was hilarious.

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  • 27. At 9:34pm on 16 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    I just realised, redheylin called me a MacKenzie.

    Outside ...

    Now ...

    Sunshine ;-{

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  • 28. At 10:02pm on 16 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    The Silence. The police.

    1. What is the true story its based on?

    2. Have you noticed anything produced, etc, by the BBC out of Bristol has black people in AN EXTREMELY INTERESTING OR GOOD LIGHT in a self consciousa way.

    This proves, despite Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road and that Britol was built on slavery, middle class people who enjoy living in Clifton who work for the BBC or at the University etc are anti - racist and therefore do not need to get proper jobs.

    (The University is slightly more nouveau riche than Oxbridge and a finishing school for rich heiresses in their droves)

    2. The police (beat PCs) are usually working class in backgound and know the middle class rich there (and everywhere else) for what they are - not least, the left masquarading middle class chic.

    But the Moat insurrection demonstrates yet again the contempt many working class communities have for the police.

    Of course sometimes conflicts are no more than 'mods v rockers' in style - police versus locals. Sometimes they are of a sort, in respect to Moslems, that constitutes organised state suppression.

    The commonplace attitude, however, among police, of a manic hostility towards working lass criminals is in a sense surprising.

    These is some research by Stern (he of the sainthood in ecology) that shows crime goes down as police numbers are reduced because the pattern of hostility encouages crime - the only possible response.

    It is completely evident that this hostility is acquired as a part of the socialisation of police - the training - in organisations the police equivalent of Deep Cut.

    But the cynicism with which the police see the bourgeoisie makes one hope for more from then on working class villany.

    As my wife said of George Galloway's contribution last night on Moat : 'First he says 'This is an instance of piecemeal revolt' then, when he gets snowed for it, he switches to prison treatment instead of original anomie' (she's a Weberian).
    I mean, similarly, why don't the police have a view that capitalist exploitation causes working class crime?

    I think it's because they are, in effect, Mandelian or Marcusian. They think the white working class better off than true egalitarianism would make them, and so crime, anit-social behaviour etc are too much to sympathise with.

    Except that.... the class may be co-operationist, that does not mean that the patterns of exploitation have not produced a stand-out screaming injustice - in the distribution of manual work.

    The ex-prisoner on the Daily Politics the other day said 'Give the poor good jobs by sending them to univeristy'

    In a nutshell, fella', right, right, right and then right.

    The police, like every other part of our society, has no political structure to talk about the redistribution of work.

    Without such a praxis who SHOULD be doing the worst sort of work is impossible to answer, but subjectively it remains true for the intergenerationally working class that it shouldn't be them.

    Since the police themeslves have escaped unemployment etc, they feel all working people can too.

    But they can't, because social mobility is blocked at the top by the Glass Floor, upon which strut the intergenerational banksters, toffs with their sinecures in politics, public companies, arts foundations, charities etc, etc, and the upper class class elite who dominate so much of our education system, insisting still that the arcane, the irrelevant and the class ridden shall be the educational signals they acknowledge, etc, etc, and who all REFUSE to clean lavatories, empty wheelie bins, keep rail embankments clear, become a member of Arriva's train presentation teams, stack shelves in shops etc.

    Their current jobs should be done by the Asian and Afro traditions, the sorts of jobs coveted at the BBC in Bristol by those white white working classes.

    The first step doesn't need another generation. There are Asian and Afro Craibbean talents aplenty ready to take over many of these roles.

    The poshies who run the BBC at Bristol would have longer, perhaps three years, before they could be replaced. As a result, in part, of their clever use of racism to condemn working class people. Meanwhile, instead of massaging their own egos with their simplistic self congratulatory views, they should turn to campaigning that whole bunch of upper class parasites, that the police so despise, to do proper jobs, now.

    A part of the praxis, namely recognising that people who presently disport themselves on the government back benches should, and I say this with deadly seriousness, be street sweeping for a living, is vital.
    Emphaising the need for a complete revolution in the class occupations in this country will ease the minds of all those alienated and anomic.

    The police are right. For the average standard of living of white working class people is above what equality demands.
    The police are wrong. For white working class people are tortured by a class pattern that allocates the wrong classes to the wrong work.

    We see in working class life a racism that only serves to keep Asians and Afro Caribbean people out of the top jobs they deserve and brutal macho identities which serve only to disqualify them for middle class jobs rightfully theirs. Who can these distortions serve except those above them?

    If the police lived this praxis, perhaps they would be a little more one sided in their attitude to the class war.

    If the working classes lived it, they'd be happier. What's a few quid a week matter compared with living the right life rather than the wrong one, living longer, getting less depressed, doing a job you really like and one that isn't wrecking your body.

    3. So, Bristol BBC, who were the drug sqaud killers in The Silence based on? Names ranks and numbers, please.

    You have little value other than the promise of this evaluation.

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  • 29. At 10:40pm on 16 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    Let us all take a step back


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  • 30. At 10:57pm on 16 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    20 - A post that may provoke? Wow That's pretty much everything that gets posted here. Other than the stuff that no-one reads, of course...

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  • 31. At 11:20pm on 16 Jul 2010, Redheylin wrote:

    27. You're asking for a boot up the Kelvin, pal.

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  • 32. At 11:44pm on 16 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    31 - I really wanted to get into banter but felt retricted by the censorship of the mods.

    But heck the only Kelvin I know personally was guy I sacked for organising an armed robbery three years ago and put in jail for five years, so there you go.

    All Kelvin's are dodgy particularly when measured by degree.

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  • 33. At 00:28am on 17 Jul 2010, Redheylin wrote:

    Ah yes, Lord Kelvin, who said in 1900 that nothing remained to be invented. What a ...

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  • 34. At 09:32am on 17 Jul 2010, davmcn wrote:

    EPO 10, Can I call you a pillbox?

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  • 35. At 1:15pm on 17 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    27. Ellis P Otter, & 31 redheylin

    What we need is a Tracy or Sharon to shout "Leave 'im alone 'e aint worf it"

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  • 36. At 3:11pm on 18 Jul 2010, Redheylin wrote:

    Not at all, dear Lootern, matters are otherwise. With post 1 Ellis cleverly demonstrated that the moderation on this blog renders it incapable of fair comment upon the content of PM. He then graciously acceded to participation in a scientific experiment upon the paradoxes of human behaviour that has resulted not only in an extension of the English language but in the unexpected discovery that stupidity can be measured in degrees Kelvin, thus proving the law "the more heat, the less light".

    Finally, I surmised Ellis would agree that Mr Cameron's new foreign policy appears to require a good, strong quick foot assault up the Khyber.

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