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Eddie Mair | 08:15 UK time, Wednesday, 21 July 2010

glassnewsun8.JPGYou may have read your morning paper and listened to the radio, and have some ideas you want to hear on PM tonight.

Perhaps you have a question about something in the news you would like answered - or better still, direct experience of something topical. Or maybe there's an aspect to a big story you haven't heard explored that you would like to hear.

The PM team will meet in a real glass box at 11am. Why not be part of the meeting by sharing your thoughts in this virtual glass box? We don't really look in after 11am so please be prompt! And if you want to simply drone on about something, please try somewhere else.

Comments

  • 1. At 09:08am on 21 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/jul/20/france-france

    I was wondering where we might put such a beach in the UK?

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  • 2. At 09:08am on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    Better late than never I suppose.

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  • 3. At 09:12am on 21 Jul 2010, Adrie van der Luijt wrote:

    The draught has resulted in a 60 per cent drop in hay yields this year, with many farmers already feeding cattle on hay due to a shortage (!) of grass. The result is a sharp rise in the price of hay, which will eventually be passed on to the customer through the price of beef etc. Many horse owners will also have an unpleasant surprise when they try to get supplies for this winter.

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  • 4. At 09:17am on 21 Jul 2010, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Diane Abbott says the labour party need to connect with the ordinary core people that make up the labour party. In fact she sounds quite passionate about it. Diane often cites her own constituency (one of the poorest and neediest in London) as an example of the people she says the labour part should represent. However, research shows the vast majority of core labour supporters belive private education (the one you pay to get your kids a place on the ladder above those who ain't got the money) is anathema and very unequal.

    Do you have a comment Ms Abbott?

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  • 5. At 09:20am on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    Did the quadlatte help, Eddie? ;o)

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  • 6. At 09:21am on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    So some American Senators are still upset about the Libyan bomber release.

    I do not recall any US politician saying that the release of Roman Catholic Irish terrorists was wrong or say anything like they are now saying about the Libyan. For instance "New York senator Kirsten Gillibrand said justice had not been served."

    All terrorists swim in the same pond whether they carry out attacks on the British, Israelies or Americans.

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  • 7. At 09:21am on 21 Jul 2010, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Brian Clough;
    The best labour party leader we never had. The fact that he lived in and loved my home town and I was his postman for a while has nothing to do with it.

    PS, not a bad football manager either. And yes, cause I watched the thing on tele the other night young man.

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  • 8. At 09:21am on 21 Jul 2010, eddiemair wrote:

    Actually, the post was posted but thanks to this:
    "Blogs Network Homepage
    BBC Blogs are currently down for maintenance or upgrade. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause and are working to restore the service. Please try again later." it didn't go up on time. Out of my hands I'm afraid!

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  • 9. At 09:23am on 21 Jul 2010, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    FJD (4):

    Interesting discussion. How far should we force our principles onto other people, even our children?

    If you believe that schools should be equally good for everyone, but your local comps are nevertheless rubbish, do you put your children into the rubbish schools and maybe cripple their career prospects, or send them to a better private school if you can afford it? Where does your higher duty lie? Your principals or your children's lives?

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  • 10. At 09:28am on 21 Jul 2010, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Looter (6)

    Sounds to me like Americas way of saying don't forget whose dog in this world. As you infer, it is so hypocritical. But then when you belive you got God on your side, oh well, lets not go there eh.

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  • 11. At 09:29am on 21 Jul 2010, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    My 10 Should read 'Top' dog sorry.

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  • 12. At 09:30am on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    1.

    You dear, sweet old fashioned thing, you!

    Brummagens have been doing it for years:

    http://www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2008/07/22/the-beach-returns-to-birmingham-city-centre-97319-21381782/


    And a well known sprout lover of this blog pointed out that Northampton was doing it, too

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  • 13. At 09:30am on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    4. funnyJoedunn & 9 The Stainless Steel Cat

    Diane Abbot could have become a school governor at her local Comp and I am sure of all people she could have single handed kicked arses and got that school turned around.
    Or was it that the true reason people send kids to private education is that they don't want their kids mixing with the wrong sort.

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  • 14. At 09:35am on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    Frightening news on BBC London last night: http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/london/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8839000/8839539.stm

    You have been warned, how many more are there in the pipeline come on Eddie we need to be forewarned.

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  • 15. At 09:36am on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    8 - Well, (actually) I did think it odd, Eddie ....

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  • 16. At 09:41am on 21 Jul 2010, Fearless Fred wrote:

    Looter (14) There's more of them?!?!? Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

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  • 17. At 09:43am on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    3

    Well, here we save water by not flushing and dry shaving.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ko2VXpW7_g&feature=related

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  • 18. At 09:44am on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    16. Fearless Fred
    Scary aint it. Nightmare on Johnson Street II coming soon.

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  • 19. At 09:47am on 21 Jul 2010, MoC wrote:

    Looternite@14 - as Boris would say "Yikes!" I have heard that the younger one is "even cleverer than BoJo"

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  • 20. At 09:51am on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    For a non-pro ConDem opinion of the Big Society: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/columnists/maguire/2010/07/21/a-big-society-yer-on-yer-own-david-cameron-115875-22427830/

    Thatcher would be proud of Cameron and Clegg.

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  • 21. At 09:52am on 21 Jul 2010, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Mr Cat (9)

    "Where does your higher duty lie? Your principals or your children's lives"?

    In the case of an MP, I believe your higher duty is with the people who elected you. If you are not prepared to do this, in my opinion, they/we should question weather or not we stand for election. Many people feel betrayed by hypocritical polititians, especially when they profess that they are there to change things for the most disadvantaged when in fact things have gone backwards in the equality stakes for them.

    I centered on Diane Abbott as, on the Today program this morning was a report where when asked a similar question about sending her children to private education, Diane in my opinion, became very disrespectful to the point of insulting by going completely silent refusing to even speak to the reporter.

    PS, Some of us deliberately have sent our kids to the local school round the corner regardless due to our principles. Didn't do my kids any harm. And yes, my kids had/have dreams and aspirations too. They are also intelligent and capable, much more so than I was/am. they both eventually achieved degrees (the hard way - not the paid for way). However, I didn't have the bread to by a rung above the missing and greased rungs on the ladder. I wasn't an MP either asking for any votes either. If I did have the money, my kids would still have gone to the local school.

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  • 22. At 09:53am on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    19. MadnessOfCrowds
    Cleverer or more cunning it's a fine line.

    Still Johson junior has neater hair.

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  • 23. At 09:54am on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    For all you insiders

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00t1016/Classic_Serial_The_Glass_Bead_Game_The_Glass_Bead_Game_Episode_1/

    (Repeated Sat 9pm RadFor)

    and for all you beautiful drop outs and deadbeats

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocq_noEO2uU

    Topic:

    Does Oxbridge figure too much in English public life and consciousness?

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  • 24. At 09:54am on 21 Jul 2010, elcej wrote:

    I've an idea for what NOT to include in tonight's PM
    Bonuses for senior Home Office staff amid pay freeze

    This is a great example of irresponsible journalism. Bonuses are often part of a employment contract and only paid if certain objectives are met. This is a great way of increasing efficiency.

    But this BBC reporter is only looking for a 'shock-horror' headline.
    If salary+bonus this year is equal to, or less than salary+bonus last year then it is not a pay rise.


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  • 25. At 09:54am on 21 Jul 2010, MoC wrote:

    FJD/SSC/Looternite re sending kids to private school. It is completly understandable that all parents want the best poossible education for their kids. And it takes time to change a whole system. But I have always found it an outrage that NooLab utterly failed to take a radical approach, think the unthinkable and truly deliver world class education to all children.
    I have repeatedly and boringly asked everyone with any influence: why can't all our children have the excellent education that Eton provides? I have never heard a good reason why this couldn't happen. The only reasons I hear are excuses like 'the parents don't care', 'it would be expensive' - but never details on exactly how expensive and never any long-term thinking about added value rather than cost. I know that it could be done if the political will was there. Looternite is right: if DA had become a governor of the local school and sent her kid there, the political will would have followed.

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  • 26. At 09:55am on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    21. funnyJoedunn

    Hear, Hear, well put.

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  • 27. At 10:02am on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    We can only hope that BoJo's younger brother's eccentricity gene is weaker than that of his older sibling.

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  • 28. At 10:07am on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    27. Big Sister

    "We can only hope that BoJo's younger brother's eccentricity gene is weaker than that of his older sibling."

    "eccentricity gene" that's how posh people are described, if they were ordinary folk they would be described as Loopy.

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  • 29. At 10:09am on 21 Jul 2010, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Looter (26)

    Thank you. I appreciate it.

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  • 30. At 10:11am on 21 Jul 2010, Anne P wrote:

    27 - would you really rather just have yet another man in a grey suit? There is a place for eccentrics to brighten up our lives. Where would we be without the Boris's of this world to laugh at.

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  • 31. At 10:11am on 21 Jul 2010, Fearless Fred wrote:

    It's vuvuzela time again. That constant whining drone goes on and on.....

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  • 32. At 10:11am on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    Anne, I don't dislike eccentricity, but I fear it when it is wedded to power.

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  • 33. At 10:18am on 21 Jul 2010, DoctorDolots wrote:

    6. Looternite:
    It's because America can't ever admit it wasn't Megrahi, but a Palestinian cell paid by Iran to extract vengeance for the Iranian passenger plane shot down by the US. Libya was chosen as fall guy since the US had decided that Gaddafi was evil incarnate and the case against Megrahi was cobbled together, not very well. Anyone who followed the case at the time it was in the Scottish court [as I did] was aware that the 'evidence' was flimsy in the extreme, so much so that the judges couldn't bring themselves to convict both [charged with conspiracy together, remember] but felt under pressure to convict someone. The result was a travesty and an innocent man jailed.

    Releasing him on 'compassionate' grounds was only on condition he abandoned his appeal, which almost certainly would have succeeded if the appeal judges had been totally independent of any pressure since under law there was no case. It was little enough to let him spend his last months with family after imprisoning him wrongly for so long. A lot of people seem disappointed he is still alive, despite it being impossible to diagnose exactly when someone will die from prostate cancer. Justice wasn't served for Megrahi.

    I'm just astonished that a bunch of US senators think they have the right to 'investigate' another country's judicial decisions. I'm used to American arrogance, but this quite takes the breath away, yet no one in the media has raised it, and seem to be treating the strident, posturing Americans as if they have a point.



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  • 34. At 10:18am on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    23 - EtE - Certainly it features too much in yours ;-)

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  • 35. At 10:19am on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    My 32:

    Two examples to illustrate my point. Hitler was considered to be eccentric, as was Quentin Crisp. The latter was no threat to anyone, but we all know how things turned out with the former.

    In government, there have been noted eccentrics. Keith Joseph springs to mind, for me. Unfortunately, the ideas of eccentrics, which may not have been examined by less eccentric minds, are often adopted by political parties. There are a few such ideas around at the moment (imho).

    I wonder what the people of London think of some of Boris' ideas?

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  • 36. At 10:25am on 21 Jul 2010, Anne P wrote:

    Big Sister, I fear ambition or ideological zeal wedded to power much more.

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  • 37. At 10:34am on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    Clever but it doesn't cut the mustard.
    The problem with the bloke has always been his LUST for power, his eccentricity his PR face.

    He was the first Tory to get power by pretending he liked Lib Dems.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson#Parental_origins.2C_education_and_marriages


    Dare I mention where that charade was played out, where he got his waste of time degree,....?

    Never mind. He has a great step mother.

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  • 38. At 10:43am on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    36: Yes, I take your point - but unfortunately eccentricity and ideology are not strangers.

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  • 39. At 10:49am on 21 Jul 2010, DiY wrote:

    This seems to me to be a damning indictment of education standards of this school in Norfolk that the head and his staff have not managed to mentor and help develop leadership skills in their male pupils. I think all he has achieved is to disenfranchise all male students!
    Perhaps Eddie would like to get the views of the Chairman of the Governors.

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  • 40. At 10:49am on 21 Jul 2010, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Direct action.
    http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/pain-in-the-pocket-as-charity-sabotages-asda-skynews-29d4406bca59.html?x=0

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  • 41. At 10:53am on 21 Jul 2010, Mindclearly wrote:

    1. found an activity for your beach sid!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/20/animal-cruelty-parasailing-donkey-russia

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  • 42. At 10:59am on 21 Jul 2010, mittfh wrote:

    Re: Post 1 (Sid)

    Never mind turning a tiny stretch of the Seine embankment into a temporary beach (I suppose the equivalent over here would be part of The Embankment in London), how about having a picnic on 40 miles of empty motorway?

    No, I'm not talking the 1950s, I'm talking about present day Germany:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10676728

    There's even a convenient photo gallery:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10678074

    -oOo-

    Then in other news, the company responsible for Scholl footcare products and Durex condoms (what an odd combination!) is to acquire the company responsible for Mr. Muscle and Cillit Bang.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10708737

    -oOo-

    Don't think the car wash at the garage does a good enough job? How about paying someone to wash it for you - as well as spruce it up, getting rid of scratches and dents? Sound good? Well, there is a catch - the process might take up to a month and set you back £7,000. But if your car is a ridiculously expensive supercar, you can probably afford it...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/10700893

    -oOo-

    Diplomatic gifts can be strange - but wellies, candles and graffiti art?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10710074

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  • 43. At 11:02am on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    40

    What's the Big Idea, Joe?

    You don't expect upper class toffs and idle chatterers to do that work instead do you?

    Don't you know Sam Cam is a Sheffield, and her people have been for generations.

    And David went to Oxbridge.

    Anyway, thwey've got proper jobs already. Allegedly.

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  • 44. At 11:07am on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    After 11. They've gone.

    17. contains the lines

    Now if the GB was the thing, that would take me to heaven,

    I’d be waiting in the studio, till the clock strike eleven,

    Or words to..



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  • 45. At 11:13am on 21 Jul 2010, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    DD (33):

    Hear, hear. It's a massive display of arrogant interference from the US, and there's a strange lack of uproar about it.

    Let's all chuck some coffee into the nearest harbour and demand our independence!

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  • 46. At 11:17am on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    No, not the coffee, Cat! I'll settle for tea, though ;o)

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  • 47. At 11:27am on 21 Jul 2010, DoctorDolots wrote:

    3. Well here in Scotland it's been raining heavily for weeks on and off, and the first grass cut around here was weeks ago [for silage] and the next is due with the grass over three foot tall – enough to wet your knees thoroughly above the welly line if you walk through it. I've just got back from walking the dogs and changed my trousers yet again.
    The price of beef should go up, and cattle should cease getting taxpayer subsidies from the EU; the real price should reflect the real cost of raising meat. Horse owners all need to be rich these days.

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  • 48. At 11:31am on 21 Jul 2010, DoctorDolots wrote:

    45. 46. Yeah, chuck the tea, mine's an Ethiopian please.

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  • 49. At 11:33am on 21 Jul 2010, DoctorDolots wrote:

    My 47. Of course I meant the farmers getting EU subsidy, not the cattle who get nothing but TB.;-(


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  • 50. At 11:37am on 21 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:


    Reducing to 600 seats ...

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2740

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  • 51. At 11:39am on 21 Jul 2010, mittfh wrote:

    So SSL International make Durex and Scholl (they've sold off pretty much everything else they once did).

    Reckitt Benckiser own 17 "powerbrands" and a bunch of others, including:
    Air Wick, Bonjela, Calgon, Cherry Blossom, Cillit Bang, Clearasil, Dettol, Finish, Gaviscon, Harpic, Lemsip, Mr. Sheen, Nurofen, Strepsils, Vanish, Veet, Windolene, Woolite.

    Cherry Blossom (shoe wax) and Scholl would make ideal partners, and I can imagine Durex being a partner for Bonjela, Clearasil, Gaviscon, Lemsip, Nurofen and Strepsils - possibly even Veet. I'd better leave the connections to your imaginations, lest I provoke an 18+ discussion...

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  • 52. At 11:47am on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    50
    Explain how AV would help here.

    [Personal details removed by Moderator]

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  • 53. At 11:58am on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    'Eyes down for an empty House'

    Clegg explaining how good it is to have dispossessed aristos as ancestors and recommends it for Dave and Sam's descendents, how useful it is to waste 3 years at Oxbridge, how right it is to be one of four East Midlands MEPs with less than a quarter of the vote, what its like to be a poodle.

    In one minute, BBC2

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  • 54. At 12:06pm on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    I was wrong. You have a chip on each shoulder.

    ;-)

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  • 55. At 12:09pm on 21 Jul 2010, Anne P wrote:

    53 - no-one is responsible for their ancestors. I should know, I've got lots.

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  • 56. At 12:13pm on 21 Jul 2010, mittfh wrote:

    Re: Post 52 (ExpectingtheEnd)

    The winning candidate got 61% of the vote, so would have been elected under AV as well as FPTP.

    But looking closely at the candidates' names, that wasn't your point, was it?

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  • 57. At 12:19pm on 21 Jul 2010, Fearless Fred wrote:

    mitffh (56) you forget that as far as EtE's concerned, there's no truly representative way of electing representation (apart from eveyone being an MP, I suppose), so we should all give up on elections, and have our jobs/lives decided for us by some unknown agency (let's call it a Politburo or "Peoples Committee") based on an inverted snobbery. Sounds like fun, doesn't it? Let's ask the folks who survived the rule of Pol Pot what they think of such a system....

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  • 58. At 12:22pm on 21 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:


    Just what I need. Another stalker.

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  • 59. At 12:22pm on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    Oxbridge tosh of the day.

    Clegg, a Lib Dem Con man, to Jack Straw:

    'Thank goodness it IS the last time he's at the Despatch Box. He needs to go away and practice a bit more'

    Such liberal sympathies anyway for a man who evidently suffers from asthma.

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  • 60. At 12:32pm on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    Can't decide whether Clegg's 'bullion' for 'billion' (etc) and the half an octave voice drop, is from his Russian ancestry or a 'silly billy' impersonation of Dennis Healey

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  • 61. At 12:35pm on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    Goodness, the twerp Clegg thinks Lloyd George had PMQs.

    Its what you get from an Oxbridge aristo banker descended LAYABOUT.

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  • 62. At 12:39pm on 21 Jul 2010, Phil Burt wrote:

    Doc (33),
    "I'm just astonished that a bunch of US senators think they have the right to 'investigate' another country's judicial decisions. I'm used to American arrogance, but this quite takes the breath away, yet no one in the media has raised it, and seem to be treating the strident, posturing Americans as if they have a point."
    Indeed! Well said.

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  • 63. At 12:40pm on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    Sheffield Forge Masters.

    Clegg, a Sheffield MP, speaks with two faces. The management buy out WAS prepared to dilute its own share holding value in return for the PM loan.

    Afghanistan

    5 more years of death promised by Clegg.

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  • 64. At 12:40pm on 21 Jul 2010, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    I thought one or two back bench questions on PMQs were a cut above the usual quality of the last incarnation. perhaps its the new blood. Lets hope its built upon.

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  • 65. At 12:41pm on 21 Jul 2010, Phil Burt wrote:

    Anne (36),
    "I fear ambition or ideological zeal wedded to power much more."

    Too right!

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  • 66. At 12:44pm on 21 Jul 2010, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    ETE,
    Its a good job we live in a democracy. I wouldn't be allowed to think what I'm thinking right now.

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  • 67. At 12:45pm on 21 Jul 2010, Dusty Substances wrote:



    Firstly I don't think Cillit Bang has been the same since they dropped 'Barry' from their ads.

    Secondly - where is the link for the 'witnessing moments of history' thingy?

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  • 68. At 12:46pm on 21 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:

    66. funnyJoedunn
    "Its a good job we live in a democracy."

    You are aware that we wouldn't live in a democracy if it was up to Mac?

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  • 69. At 12:53pm on 21 Jul 2010, Lady_Sue wrote:

    Agree with DocD@33 about American interference.

    Are those cruel fools who "parasailed" the donkey going to be prosecuted? What about that poor little penguin in the fridge-prison in Japan? Anyone investigating that? Or the other penguins Anne P highlighted on the P-p-p-p-p-p-p-p thread?

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  • 70. At 12:57pm on 21 Jul 2010, jonnie wrote:

    I've just seen Eddie's PM Newsletter where Claire Parkinson gives an account of witnessing the last flight of Concorde across London to Heathrow..

    After seeing last weeks documentary on Concorde I couldn't help wondering if we have actually taken a step back with Air travel...

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  • 71. At 1:04pm on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    Did anyone else see Claire Bloom in last night's episode of The Bill? Not only was it a fine performance, but was a very moving account of a woman in her seventies dealing with elder rape.

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  • 72. At 1:11pm on 21 Jul 2010, MoC wrote:

    Clegg at DepPMQs - Verdict: ignorant, arrogant, blustering. Failure. Embarassing failure. Why must we put up with rubbish like him? It makes me SO angry that we lie down and accept this establishment tosh. How dare he speak to Straw in that supercilious manner?

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  • 73. At 1:11pm on 21 Jul 2010, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    4 Diane is the only leftie candidate and the only one opposed to racism so I support her. I think education is a con and only used as a guide to an applicants class. I doubt her son's school will be the only indicator taken into account.

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  • 74. At 1:12pm on 21 Jul 2010, Phil Burt wrote:

    Jonnie,

    • "I couldn't help wondering if we have actually taken a step back with Air travel..."

    Air travel IS a step backwards.

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  • 75. At 1:15pm on 21 Jul 2010, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    So is the west, the RAF, not going to give air support to Afghanistan after 2015 such as remotely controlled aircraft, logistics and fighter bombers?

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  • 76. At 1:35pm on 21 Jul 2010, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    If you mention the super star on your programme can you point out that it contradicts the theory on the creation of black holes, things I don't believe in, things that only need to exist to explain oddities in how galaxies behave, oddities that have let to dark matter, dark energy, things we can't find. Early space probes now in the outer solar system aren't where they're supposed to be which is o.k. if our theory of gravity is slightly wrong, which would enable us to drop black holes and dark matter from the theory.

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  • 77. At 1:36pm on 21 Jul 2010, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    The Tories seem to have a policy of trashing the Olympic Games, presumably because it puts Labour in too good a light.

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  • 78. At 1:44pm on 21 Jul 2010, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    33 DD surely the reason the Appeal kept being delayed was because they weren't independant, as they were avoiding the indefensible - they knew they would have to aquit.

    Those American's are running for election.

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  • 79. At 1:44pm on 21 Jul 2010, IMOORE wrote:

    63/
    " Sheffield Forge Masters.

    The management buy out WAS prepared to dilute its own share holding value in return for the PM loan. "

    From Sheffield Forge Masters web site.......

    http://www.sheffieldforgemasters.com/sfm/history/2000s

    'SFIL now has the biggest order book in its history, its highest ever level of sales predicted for next year '

    So why did they need a loan from the tax payer?

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  • 80. At 1:47pm on 21 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:

    72. MadnessOfCrowds
    "ignorant, arrogant, blustering"

    Unfortunately, faced with the appalling Straw, even a gentle soul like myself would appear to be a bit of a bully.

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  • 81. At 1:48pm on 21 Jul 2010, CarolineOfBrunswick wrote:

    re 50.
    Interesting that Highland Scotland can be accomodated within the maximum constituency size, so Scotland should only need to have one too many MPs. Of course, whether an exception is made for Ross, Skye and Lochaber or any other areas (e.g. Cornwall or the Isle of Wight) remains to be seen.

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  • 82. At 1:50pm on 21 Jul 2010, jonnie wrote:

    Lady Sue,

    I suspect the poor little Penguin will be dead by now. That video was around ten years old and if 'Lala' was 14 years old then she'll be doing well if she's still alive?

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  • 83. At 1:53pm on 21 Jul 2010, Phil Burt wrote:

    On the matter of leaders and eccentricity:

    • "A leader without a sense of humour is apt to be like the grass mower at the cemetery.
      He has lots of people under him, but nobody is paying him any attention."
      -Bob Ross

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  • 84. At 1:54pm on 21 Jul 2010, IMOORE wrote:

    81 I don't see why there should be any accommodation made for Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, for as they have their own Parliaments and assemblies, there is little for their Westminster MPs to do, so should be able to cover a much larger area.

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  • 85. At 1:58pm on 21 Jul 2010, GotToTheEnd wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 86. At 2:03pm on 21 Jul 2010, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    Jonathan (76):

    That's interesting, what part of stellar astrophysical theory does the supermassive star invalidate?

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  • 87. At 2:09pm on 21 Jul 2010, elcej wrote:

    If a woman consents to having sex with a man who she believes to be single.... but later turns out to be married.... is that rape?

    Why do I ask? Disturbing article in the Guardian today...Arab guilty of rape after consensual sex with Jew

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  • 88. At 2:14pm on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    73 - Jonathan - You're not seriously suggesting that the others favour racism are you?

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  • 89. At 2:37pm on 21 Jul 2010, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    25 MoC is Eton so good? If you went to Eton you will have known the children of the rich, as it's where the rich and the landed send their sons, so you can contact them and have something in common, and you can contact their rich parents and you will have something in common. Is that not a unique selling point that will get you a job with any employer?

    As long as there's a school the landed send their sons to the rich will too and if you can get your son there too he'll have it made. That school happens to be Eton. If this is irrelevant then maybe other schools can compete but how would we know.

    Eton also has a strange uniform which may give it's pupils a reason to stick together as they go into the local community. Both these things can only happen because you have a set apart school - it can't happen if all schools are the same, your local school can't copy it.

    I don't see DaveCam or Boris as particularly clever, so I don't see what Eton offers that makes them successful except what I've just said. But if money does produce a better education then as long as the private sector can outbid the state sector it's students will still out perform them.

    Private schools can also get rid of disruptive pupils which the state sector can't. Moreover the state sector has to accept the private sector's rejects.

    I believe education is a con, child care, how you do when you leave school depends on luck - who your parents are, what jobs are availiable, at what stage the economic cycle is in, etc.

    But if you believe in education the only way to make state schools equal to Eton and the like is to remove the ways the rich can spot their own and that means removing Eton. Doesn't mean that state schools will be worse.

    We all know how life would be/have been better for us and maybe we look at our education to see how it failled us. I believe that is a con, the rich want us looking there so we don't see where the real fault lies. However we're probably all better off than our betters were when we were young, because of new tech etc., and many of the currently successful are there by chance as much as anything.

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  • 90. At 2:39pm on 21 Jul 2010, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    86 Black Holes are daft, not this star.

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  • 91. At 2:45pm on 21 Jul 2010, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    87 is it rape if a woman consents to sex with a man who has assured her that he has no sexually transmitted disease when in fact he knows he is HIV+?

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  • 92. At 2:49pm on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    91 - Potentially but there are other things he can be charged with so I don't think anyone has ever gone down that route.

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  • 93. At 2:50pm on 21 Jul 2010, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    Jonathan (90):

    No, hang on, you said, "If you mention the super star on your programme can you point out that it contradicts the theory on the creation of black holes"

    *How* does it contradict the theory of stellar evolution leading to black holes?

    I'm afraid "black holes are daft" isn't really a complete answer.

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  • 94. At 2:51pm on 21 Jul 2010, Lady_Sue wrote:

    Jonnie@82: well thanks for that. Really cheered me up!

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  • 95. At 3:05pm on 21 Jul 2010, elcej wrote:

    91/92 Surely consensual sex is, by definition, not rape.

    Maybe she shouldn't have had sex with him before she got to know him..... otherwise, should I claim repeated rape by my wife since she hasn't turned out to be quite as brilliant a partner as I first thought.

    Do we need to get solicitors to full do 'conveyancing' on a potential mate and draw up a contract before we sleep with someone?

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  • 96. At 3:06pm on 21 Jul 2010, mittfh wrote:

    If you get the postcard I sent (first class) from Exeter last Thursday morning, an investigation into Royal Snail delivery speeds might be interesting...

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  • 97. At 3:14pm on 21 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:


    edwardjecle @ 95

    Two points:

    (1) this case refers to Israeli law, so your worries don't apply here.

    (2) although the headline says 'rape', the article says 'rape by deception'. So no, it isn't just 'rape'.

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  • 98. At 3:14pm on 21 Jul 2010, Fearless Fred wrote:

    I'm still waiting to see if the card I posted from Zagreb a little under a month ago appears, Mittfh!

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  • 99. At 3:43pm on 21 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    Government pulls interactive spending cuts website

    All good things must come to an end - apparantly too many ranters were mouthing off ... sound familiar?

    Britain has pulled an interactive website asking the public to suggest ways of cutting government spending citing "attacks" after it attracted a range of bizarre proposals and rants against minorities.

    http://uk.reuters.com/assets/print?aid=UKTRE66K31520100721

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  • 100. At 3:45pm on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    95 & 97 - Sid and Edward,

    Although it was as you rightly point out, in Israel, it would probably also be an offence here as the consent was vitiated by the fraudulent statement.

    Incidentally, Edward, there was a case a few years ago in Birmingham where a man had unprotected sex with two women (not at the same time!) knowing that he had HIV. He infected them both and was charged under with maliciously inflicting grievous bodily harm.

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  • 101. At 3:55pm on 21 Jul 2010, mittfh wrote:

    Re: Post 98 (Fearless Fred)

    Knowing what's happened with postcards sent from abroad to work, it would probably have arrived in this country within a week, then spent the rest of the time being ogled at by Royal Snail workers before they got bored and decided to send it on...
    ...or it was dumped in a ditch by an agency postie...

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  • 102. At 3:57pm on 21 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    And I'm pretty confident that the Daily Star is only featured in a few of this blog's readers daily diet so here is a sad story you may have missed ...

    Single mum allergic to cash, both coins and notes, the paper says.

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  • 103. At 4:05pm on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    Ellis what were you doing on that website??

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  • 104. At 4:06pm on 21 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:

    100. Alan_N
    "Although it was as you rightly point out, in Israel, it would probably also be an offence here as the consent was vitiated by the fraudulent statement."

    I'm sceptical ... the whole thing, both the fraudulent statement and the offence, are governed by Israeli law - how can it be an offence in the UK?

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  • 105. At 4:10pm on 21 Jul 2010, Ellis P Otter wrote:

    103 - Alan N, my desktop wire service highlighted the story.

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  • 106. At 4:18pm on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    104 - Sorry - I mean that had the incident happened here it would quite possibly have been an offence under our own laws. The issue is consent and, under our law, that consent cannot be relied upon by the accused if it was given (feely or not) by the victim when she was mistaken as to the identity of the person to whom consent was given. The issue would be whether, in misleading the person as to his religion, the courts would hold that this sufficiently altered his 'identity' as to vitiate the consent. Personally, I hope not.

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  • 107. At 4:21pm on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    73: Diane Abbott the only Labour leadership candidate opposed to racism? What a load of spherical objects! They're all opposed to racism, even if it isn't a main component of their campaign.

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  • 108. At 4:24pm on 21 Jul 2010, jonnie wrote:

    Ladie Sue 82.

    I meant that in a positive way - ie: that he wouldn't be suffering in captivity anymore.....

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  • 109. At 4:27pm on 21 Jul 2010, Looternite wrote:

    Another one bites the dust: Lib/Dem good ideas that is.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10711568

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  • 110. At 4:30pm on 21 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:

    109. Looternite
    "Another one bites the dust: Lib/Dem good ideas that is."

    ... suggests a senior Conservative source.

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  • 111. At 4:53pm on 21 Jul 2010, MoC wrote:

    jonathanmorse @ 89 - in general I agree strongly with your points and your overall thesis. Eton provides an excellent education in the sense that it takes a lot of kids of below average intelligence (who happen to have cash) and, with very significant resources, gets them to an acceptable level where they can participate in society and trains them in a very focused way to obtain recognised qualifications. The students' lack of brilliance is evidenced by their participation in courses like PPE, Oxford.
    It is very clear from many research studies that the real driver is overprovision of resources, small class sizes, individual attention, good nutrition, a high level of stimulation, access to opportunities, provision of social capital etc. etc. There is no reason why we can't give all of those things to ALL children. Interesting to hear on Midweek this morning of the prevalence of scurvy (!) amongst Islington schoolkids and the high proportion of kids who go to school without breakfast. I think the number quoted was 700,000 kids at risk. Let's get them all the same level of input as Eton kids.

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  • 112. At 4:59pm on 21 Jul 2010, Sindy wrote:

    111. MadnessOfCrowds
    "provision of social capital"

    Does that mean having a little Lord Fauntleroy in every class? (I.e. the social capital would be spread a bit thin.)

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  • 113. At 5:00pm on 21 Jul 2010, needsanewnickname wrote:

    In case anyone's interested, Boris Johnson has a sister, Rachel, editor of 'The Lady', from the offices of which she ran a campaign for Jo Johnson's election this year.

    There's also Leo Johnson, an entrepreneur.

    I do know some Londoners who are amused by the Mayor's 'buffooning'. I am not, being an old misery-guts who tends to think that tact is quite useful in a major politician.

    Boris is well-known for saying that he would remove the western extension of the Congestion Charge zone, which he has not done. It's a complicated one, but most of the West Londoners I know want it removed.

    He's anti bendy-bus, which is generally approved of.

    Some say that he's got his eye of being the next leader of the Conservative Party.

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  • 114. At 5:03pm on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    111 - MOC. Any evidence to support your assertion that the children at Eton are of below average intelligence? What is this correlation between lack of brilliance and reading PPE (other than prejudice, of course)?

    You're quite right about overprovision and class size, of course, and the only thing that stands in the way of such provision for all children is money. An awful lot of it.

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  • 115. At 5:07pm on 21 Jul 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    Frances, you may like this (I linked to it on another thread)L

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/borisjohnson/1976150/Boris-Johnson-by-his-mother-Charlotte-Johnson-Wahl.html

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  • 116. At 5:07pm on 21 Jul 2010, MoC wrote:

    Sid@112 - no, it means providing them with access to the other forms of capital needed to complement the intellectual capital they already possess. Those other forms of capital are many and varied and are the ones that are easily available to people like me who have many millions of pounds of financial capital. Most of us rich folk need these other forms of capital to compensate for our lack of intellectual capital.
    I find it astonishing that most people do not see how ill-served society is by the current system that promotes the cream of society (that's 'cream' as in 'rich and thick') at the expense of the genuinely talented.

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  • 117. At 5:11pm on 21 Jul 2010, MoC wrote:

    Alan_N@114 - I didn't say all of them. My point is that many thickos are 'overeducated' to appear to be functioning. Sadly, I do happen to know a lot of them.
    As for the PPE thing - again, it's well-known in the right circles but such information mustn't be allowed to the plebs. Have a good close look at it.

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  • 118. At 5:12pm on 21 Jul 2010, Lady_Sue wrote:

    jonnie, thanks - I knew what you meant really.

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  • 119. At 5:16pm on 21 Jul 2010, Lady_Sue wrote:

    Madness@111: complete and UTTER nonsense to say the lads at Eton are not bright. What rubbish. In order to be accepted into the school, they have to be both bright and good at sport/art/music.

    As for your assertion about PPE - 'spherical objects' to that too.

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  • 120. At 5:21pm on 21 Jul 2010, MoC wrote:

    Happy to disagree Lady Sue@119. I can only speak from very deep experience. And, again, I know many intelligent Eton alumni; I also knnow many who are not remotely bright.

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  • 121. At 5:24pm on 21 Jul 2010, needsanewnickname wrote:

    Thanks, Big Sis!

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  • 122. At 5:32pm on 21 Jul 2010, needsanewnickname wrote:

    I've just noticed this in the article: after a mention of her having Parkinson's she says: 'her request to the new mayor has been to stop bus drivers moving off until all passengers are seated. "If you're disabled, often you fall."'

    Hear, hear.

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  • 123. At 5:39pm on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    117 - I'd be delighted to take up your offer to have a look at the evidence on the PPE thing. Where is it?

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  • 124. At 5:46pm on 21 Jul 2010, MoC wrote:

    Alan_N@117 - here are some options for finding out:
    1. Attend Oxford University
    2. Know intimately some people who took PPE and ask them about the details - for example, the basis on which classes of degree are awarded and any exceptions to the standards
    3. Use externally-produced evaluation of standards - oh, hang on! That one isn't available, sorry!

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  • 125. At 5:47pm on 21 Jul 2010, MoC wrote:

    apologies, Alan_N, that was your 123 of course.

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  • 126. At 6:10pm on 21 Jul 2010, Alan_N wrote:

    124 - MOC

    1. Err, too late. Anyway, I have enough degrees now.
    2. I'm fussy about who I know intimately, but I assume that the same rules apply to that course as to all others.
    3. How convenient! ;-)

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  • 127. At 8:50pm on 24 Oct 2010, U14638904 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 128. At 8:56pm on 24 Oct 2010, Sid wrote:

    8. eddiemair
    "Actually, the post was posted but thanks to this:
    "Blogs Network Homepage
    BBC Blogs are currently down for maintenance or upgrade. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause and are working to restore the service. Please try again later." it didn't go up on time. Out of my hands I'm afraid!
    "

    Not three and a bit months later, though?

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  • 129. At 11:35pm on 24 Oct 2010, U14638904 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 130. At 11:42pm on 24 Oct 2010, U14638904 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 131. At 11:47pm on 24 Oct 2010, U14638904 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 132. At 02:38am on 25 Oct 2010, U14638904 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 133. At 02:56am on 25 Oct 2010, U14638904 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 134. At 09:14am on 25 Oct 2010, Big Sister wrote:

    132 is a personal attack upon another blogger. Why is it still here?

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  • 135. At 1:45pm on 25 Oct 2010, elcej wrote:

    I see MAC has now lost his latest user login name (TheEqualiser).
    I wonder what name he will choose next or will he fade away (wishful thinking I know)

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