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Listening to the BNP.

Eddie Mair | 16:59 UK time, Tuesday, 9 June 2009

eggs.JPG

Should we? Listen to the argument on PM and let us know your view by clicking on Comments.

You can watch the video and read more here.

Comments

  • 1. At 5:04pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    Let's get a statement from John Prescott to see what he thinks about egging.

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  • 2. At 5:05pm on 09 Jun 2009, Sarah wrote:

    Re.Nick Griffin.
    You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
    Unfortunately those who voted for this repulsive politician will have more sympathy with him after today.
    He should be allowed to broadcast his views in order that people better understand what he believes in. I also think he should be open to the same interrogation from the likes of Jeremy Paxman to show how right wing and extreme his views are.
    Only by letting him speak will people really understand how racist he is.

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  • 3. At 5:07pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    wW 2, I agree, but then I'm a Lib Dem.

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  • 4. At 5:12pm on 09 Jun 2009, needsanewnickname wrote:

    "What, with a souffle?"

    I burst out laughing. Even though this is a serious subject.

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  • 5. At 5:12pm on 09 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    She's not doing a good job is she?

    The BNP are racist?

    You can't be a member of the BNP if you're in the police?

    Labour?

    Shutting Remploy factories? We can't afford Remploy factories and jobs but we can keep MPs living like the landed gentry.

    Ageism? Labour have agreements where people with excellent work and health records are forced out of jobs because they're 65?

    So being racist is unacceptable, but Labour policies that discriminate against the disabled and the elderly is fine?

    She's babbling on about D-Day?

    So we fought WW2 so France and Germany could make our laws for us?

    Can't we trade with continental Europe without them making our laws and regulations?

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  • 6. At 5:13pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    Ah, I see, they are eggs. It says so if I hover my cursor above them.

    How did they train the chickens to lay eggs with those red thingys on them?

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  • 7. At 5:14pm on 09 Jun 2009, rightwhino wrote:

    This woman does not speak for me. I resent her assumption that she speaks for the majority, how dare she.

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  • 8. At 5:16pm on 09 Jun 2009, JJ wrote:

    What was he doing at Westminster anyway - he has been elected to Strasbourg!

    JJ

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  • 9. At 5:16pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    Does the label on that container say, WARNING, MAY CONTAIN EGGS!

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  • 10. At 5:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, Parax wrote:

    First I do not vote for the BNP but I do believe in Democracy.
    USE YOUR VOTE - Violence and abuse is wrong.
    Its funny how the interviewee kept saying the majority.. perhaps she does not understand voting?

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  • 11. At 5:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, doctorsense wrote:

    Firstly, I do not support the BNP, but that woman that Eddie just interviewed is the real fascist. She and her organization are antidemocratic. Nick Griffin has a right to be heard without being pelted with eggs.
    I am tempted to vote BNP just to show her how wrong she is.

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  • 12. At 5:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, chowzamma wrote:

    Well done for trying Eddie, she doesn't seem to understand the mistake she was making by not responding to your questions. She did not advance her cause at all well, I do not like the BNP also but this was not the way to go about registering a protest.

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  • 13. At 5:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, Stephensobo wrote:

    I am sorry Eddie, but that came across as a grilling bordering on bullying. Why do those protesting against racists and fascist have to protest in an acceptable manner? These people are fascists. They have to be stopped because they are anti-democratic. Please don't go for soft target in this way.

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  • 14. At 5:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, Sid wrote:

    I've never turned PM off before, but I very nearly did just now. I found Eddie's tone unusually aggressive.

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  • 15. At 5:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, Sarah wrote:

    No 3 David.
    Me too. Ben Bradshaw made the same argument in Committee yesterday. Well-informed people understand what they stand for but unfortunately not everyone listens to intelligent radio or reads a decent newspaper.It is these people that need to be told exactly what they are.
    I could not believe that someone admitted on the news that they voted BNP as a protest vote although they weren't a rascist! Could have voted Green or similar but thought that the BNP were not like other politicians.Open them to the same constraints as main stream politicians will show the public they are not somehow different.

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  • 16. At 5:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, Portly wrote:

    The keystone of democracy is that everybody has to accept the results of a democratic vote and get on with it.

    Any kind of violence, including egg-throwing, has to be seen as dangerously anti-democratic.

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  • 17. At 5:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, saevaindignatio wrote:

    That awful woman was as much a threat to liberty as the BNP. She reminded me of Blears, just spouting and spouting her preprogrammed position and no thinking.

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  • 18. At 5:18pm on 09 Jun 2009, Mike Souter wrote:

    I do not in any shape or form support the views of the BNP. However, we are a democracy and they have been voted to the European Parliament. I have been very unsettled in recent days by the media's generally hostile attitude to the BNP's two MEP's. Much as we may dislike what they stand for, they must be given the same courtesy as we would extend to any other politician.

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  • 19. At 5:18pm on 09 Jun 2009, Alex London wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 20. At 5:18pm on 09 Jun 2009, aquaOldsalty wrote:

    Couldn't be bothered to vote to keep them out but happy to turn out throw eggs and verbally abuse an elected member of the European parliament, great policy.

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  • 21. At 5:18pm on 09 Jun 2009, TherealJamesBennett wrote:

    That female was talking about her views which is exactly what Nick Griffin was trying to do. I don't agree with him but this just highlights his cause more.

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  • 22. At 5:18pm on 09 Jun 2009, Neverwas wrote:

    How come the rambling UAF spokesperson was allowed so much time to make her pitch? Why did she not suffer the kind of interview Nick Griffin received on Today? Where were the questions about criminal offences? Are the UAF happy for their members to be shouted down and pelted with eggs?
    Come on Mr Mair, you can do better than that!

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  • 23. At 5:18pm on 09 Jun 2009, SpursinWarsaw wrote:

    You're interviewing technique was spot-on. She didn't have a leg to stand on.

    It is incredible how these people who go on about democracy and the evils of facism are the same people who won't accept the results of free elections.

    It is a repeat of the French presidential elections earlier in the decade. Half the population couldn't be bothered voting, but complained about the results when Le Pen got through to the next round.

    It also reminds me of the elections in the Palestinian territories - there must be elections!!!! Oh, Hamas won.... we can't accept that result.

    Let the BNP win seats - it'll gee up the rest of the population to vote against them next time around (the French overwhelming voted against Le Pen in the second round).

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  • 24. At 5:19pm on 09 Jun 2009, lynnjbates wrote:

    Thankyou , Unite , for representing the feelings of people like me , that was so good to see NG humiliated . He should not have ever been allowed to be elected - Fascist parties should be illegal - they infringe the rights of so many members of our society .

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  • 25. At 5:19pm on 09 Jun 2009, U3254135 wrote:

    That woman does not realise how stupid she sounds.


    Fighting for 'free speech'

    'Egging' elected representatives

    Is she just upset that 'her' person did not win?

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  • 26. At 5:19pm on 09 Jun 2009, hypersaddened wrote:

    I had thought I was opposed to the BNP but after listening to the woman involved in an anti-democratic display and her subsequent attempts at self- justification, I see no difference between them - a triumph. She made Nick Griffith a credible candidate

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  • 27. At 5:19pm on 09 Jun 2009, leegreenman wrote:

    I had a flyer from the BNP thru my door the other day. It was the most outrageous attempt at playing on peoples rational fears in order to gain favour and make themselves sound like a "rational" party, all the while ignoring their actual policies on immigration and multi-culturalism. This is a typical strategy used by the nazis during the second world war to gain favour by scape-goating the jews. Nothing has changed.....

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  • 28. At 5:19pm on 09 Jun 2009, gunner_42 wrote:

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  • 29. At 5:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, mattwolf1161 wrote:

    I think what they did essentially worked if it got them a platform on PM! While Griffin has reached this position democratically, he and his party's views are NOT democratic.

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  • 30. At 5:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, doomjeffs wrote:

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  • 31. At 5:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, biswas101 wrote:

    It sounded as though Eddie Mair is bullying the speaker from the protest. it is true that the people protesting against BNP are actually giving BNP more publicity, however, instead of making that point polietly Eddie Mair sounded as though he had his own axe to grind.

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  • 32. At 5:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, Paul wrote:

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  • 33. At 5:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, cleverwelshwizard wrote:

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  • 34. At 5:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, jonni777 wrote:

    In the 30s, 40s and 50s protesters faced facists full on. Lets make sure that everyone knows what they believe in.

    The BNP arent democratic, they dont want a voice to be given to anyone whos not white.

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  • 35. At 5:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, playdreams wrote:

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  • 36. At 5:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, realityastruth wrote:

    Nice interview which drew the distinction between legitimate protest and organised, violent, political protest.

    The BBC may well come in for criticism in the future, I suspect, over the air-time it gives to the BNP but, as the BBC recognises, the BNP have been elected to the European Parliament and they must be given their fair share of media coverage. As Eddie Mair suggested the BNP have been elected, at least substantially, as a result of the failure of our democracy.

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  • 37. At 5:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, Rosemary wrote:

    what right have the anti bnp liberals to dismiss the votes of ordinary people as they have voted for change ,the liberal elite just do not get it .most people in this country do not agree with bnps white only policy but on most things they just say it as it is .we want action on immigration from Europe and the rest of the world and out of the eu

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  • 38. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, politeBloke wrote:

    I am not a member of BNP and did not vote for BNP but I do not believe in an integrated society and oppose immigration.
    Does this make me a fascist ?

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  • 39. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, baranov wrote:

    I agree that the BNP should be engaged in robust public (and private) debate, not effectively shouted down and physically attacked. I used to work in the field of UK-Soviet relations, and the argument for doing that was the same: if you believe in the superiority of your own system (ie democracy, free press, independent judiciary etc) you have nothing to fear from contact.

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  • 40. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, onpaul wrote:

    I hope the BBC give Nick Griffin the same airtime as the anti fascist protester. We should let him describe his policies. Discrimination on skin colour is wrong. But I am for preserving the culture of this country.
    I think he is right in some areas. How can it be right for a black police organisation to be legal and a white police organisation to be illegal?

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  • 41. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, geoffmackay wrote:

    i think we need to stop and think; maybe pick up a dictionary and read some definitions. we live in a democracy and therefore we have to listen to idiots of all political colours - especially when as a result of a public vote they become an official representative of an area. The spokesperson for the egg-heads should've stood against the fascists in the election. unless of course she is merely another extremist...

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  • 42. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, mover625 wrote:

    Democracy and the right to free unimpeded speech is either the right of all, however distateful, or it is nothing.
    To deny free speech by use or force (or eggs) is to become a fascist oneself.

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  • 43. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, oh_good_grief wrote:

    Souffle - brilliant!

    Sadly the BNP and their like will always do well in poor economic conditions due to their scapegoating of minorites. Egging them, while jolly amusing, only provides them with further publicity.

    The solution is, as always, education.

    Educating people gives them the tools to understand and argue cogently with these crackpots, as well as the necessary skills to get the jobs denied to the ill-educated. They'll then have no desire or reason to vote for the politics of hatred.

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  • 44. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, DrDaveW wrote:

    Any party that denies the human rights of others should not be seen as just another politcial party.

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  • 45. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, newWebwonder wrote:

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  • 46. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    Sid 14, I agree, but maybe Eddie was making up for the mistake of putting eggs on this thread to make light of what happened.

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  • 47. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, Brat2002 wrote:

    The BNP are not going away - protests won't make them disappear.

    The only way to tackle the BNP is to defeat their arguments in the public arena. You have to understand what is driving people to vote for them in the first place because it isn't a dislike of immigrants.

    Too many commentators and politicians dismiss BNP supporters as ignorant racists, ignoring their real concerns, while such gross generalisms and over-simplifications continue the BNP vote will continue to attract support

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  • 48. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, A Bowman wrote:

    So this is democracy? A bunch of mindless thugs attacking a democratically elected politician.

    Who elected the woman interviewee to speak for us?

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  • 49. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, NelRow23 wrote:

    The Anti BNP campaign is desperately in need of a new leader/spokesperson. She was utterly ignorant of the nature of democracy. Granted the majority of us in this country do not support the BNP. Minorities however, deserve representation and the system, fortunately, allows for this. All that silly woman could repeat was that BNP are atypical of most of us. Her liberal use of 'multicultural' and 'inclusive' was as big a turnoff as her anti democratic stance. There are so many absurdities in the BNP's policies, even with their carefully crafted, voter friendly image. Eggs and silly people like that demo. leader can only lend support to them.

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  • 50. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, pirates_go_yarrr wrote:

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  • 51. At 5:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, LinBaharier wrote:

    Don't agree with the eggs but do agree with the protest. They didn't protest in Germany and looked what happened. As they say for Evil to triumph good men need to do nothing.
    But then may be I am predudice as the Germany & French sides of my family were wiped out and most of the Polish & Dutch side too. The only reason my parents survived for me to be born is due to that little strip of water and the British bulldogs

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  • 52. At 5:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, a-cubed wrote:

    The UAF should not get to decide who can speak and what is acceptable. Freedom of speech is a fundamental necessity for a free society. Yes, there are limits, but these need to be the absolute minimum limits, backed up by full due process in an open court. Yes, this great freedom of speech is open to abuse by people skirting the illegal line, but you answer them with proper journalism, questioning and use of your own freedom of speech. The BNP have views I find appalling, but I also find the UAF views appalling. All they do when you raise the freedom of speech question is parrot "the BNP are fascists and should be denied a platform". They should get out there and campaign positively for toleration and rational debate, and encourage people to vote critically rather than using violent action (I'm sure the BC cameraman who got an egg in the face regards this as violence) to deny others their basic human rights. Two wrongs don't make a right and the UAF have shown themselves today to be just as wrong as the BNP.

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  • 53. At 5:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, politeBloke wrote:

    if I see a group of black men walking toward me in the street I cross the road.
    Does this make me a rascist ?

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  • 54. At 5:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, bonzerpeach wrote:

    Well, I think the BNP might just get a sympathy vote from me next time! It seems the fascists are the thugs attacking him - incredible that such people should practice the very behaviour of which they accuse the BNP. BNP candidates were elected - close to a million people voted for them. So these views should be ignored?

    Incredible arrogance from your speaker. She loses sympathy every time she opens her mouth, and helps the BNP cause.

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  • 55. At 5:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, Dr Bee wrote:

    I'm conflicted on this - on the one hand there are enough people who might be influenced to adopt the scapegoat politics of some more extreme political organisations - on the other I would like to think that giving extremists the opportunity to speak might be the best way of disarming them. But in saying that I am assuming that people are urm 'nicer' / more 'humane' than I have sometimes seen them to be. On balance the only reason for silencing a group is if they preach hatred and incitement to violence - and I wonder how close to the line this comes?

    I don't think that anybody is really in any doubt what the BNP has advocated - and yet they have still won a frighteningly large support.

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  • 56. At 5:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, liam_connell wrote:

    So far I have heard Nick Griffin interviewed on BBC's Today programme and seen his words reported in the national press. By contrast I have seen nor heard no interview by the leader of the Greens. The Green Party also gained 2 seats and received over 300,000 more votes. Nationally its share of the vote increased by nearly double the increase experienced by the BNP. This ugly party is reaping more than its fair share of publicity from this election and is not - as Eddie said - being denied a platform. Would that it were.

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  • 57. At 5:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, thedagnalls wrote:

    The BBC are acting outrageously with their coverage of the BNP. Of course a proportional coverage of political parties is necessary, but why are the BNP allowed to have their views expressed unchallenged (the BBC News a few days ago)? Why, when somebody criticises the BNP, do the BBC shout them down?
    This protester was highlighting the explicit racism of the BNP, and the BBC did not state this in their coverage at all. Why on earth not - Nick Griffin is convicted of inciting racial hatred! Every time the BNP are mentioned their racism, homophobia and fascism should be explained in the following statement.

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  • 58. At 5:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, Simonm wrote:

    So, I think our country is incredibly overcrowded. Allowing immigration - whatever somebody's race, creed or whatever - is insane. There is no room left in our towns and cities.

    I don't belive in importing low cost workers which means ever lower wages for our own people. And undermines their economies

    Who can I vote for?

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  • 59. At 5:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, Cartoir wrote:

    Although the anti-fascist woman says Nick Griffin has received too much publicity, surely he hasn't received enough if people know little enough about the BNP and their policies to vote for them.
    While I'm glad so many people are working against the BNP, wouldn't their energies be better spent in improving mainstream political parties so that some people no longer feel only the BNP represent them? While the increase in the BNP vote is disturbing, it only poses a threat if the MPs of the three main parties appear so disconnected from the people they represent.

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  • 60. At 5:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, hawkeyeonehundred wrote:

    free country, freedom of speech but only if you believe what I believe.

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  • 61. At 5:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, gillwall wrote:

    we may disagree with a persons point of view but as long as we live in this democratic country that person has a right to voice his opinion. Bullying people and violent behaviour has never achieved in the right results. People voted for a BNP representative and like it or not that is what happened. I have just had to put up with 10years of a government I did not vote for I should know!

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  • 62. At 5:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, moilnir wrote:

    I listened with disgust to your interview with the inarticulate woman who represented the protesters.

    She reminded me of the left-wing students of the 1960's who shouted down any speaker with whom they disagreed.

    Obviously, in this woman's opinion, people have the democratic right to vote for whom they wish - as long as she approves.

    I have to say that, I am so disgusted by this mob, that I would now vote for the BNP, just to support my right to vote as I wish.

    ps I don't usually bother to vote since I have equal contempt for all politicians

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  • 63. At 5:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, noblehotspur wrote:

    The lady contributor re BNP appears to be missing the whole point. We live in a democratic society, if she and her fellow protesters feel so strongly (and are in such a 'majority' ) then why didn't their vote elect a more 'multicultural' candidate?? By having to throw eggs etc and coerce they have surely lost the argument before even starting it.
    Julian Ruck

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  • 64. At 5:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, ardvaak wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 65. At 5:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, DFORD wrote:

    Throwing eggs at the BNP is hardly anti democracy. The protester's sound a little nieve but they have the right to disrupt a racist party. The BNP hide their neo Nazi and fascist intenstions behind suits and polite front men. Just watch a march by them and listen to the real views. They are trying to get some confused voters on board by not revealing their real intentions. Lets keep them as a fringe party.

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  • 66. At 5:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, Fallsbrook7 wrote:

    The people who could not be bothered to vote, have helped to put Nick Griffin where he is today. We all need to learn from this. Eggs will not stop him, our votes will.


    Fallsbrook7

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  • 67. At 5:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, maddyb wrote:

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  • 68. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, DTraynier wrote:

    I find the BNP utterly loathsome but they have been 'democratically' (if you want to call our system democratic) elected. For that reason, I suspect that shouting the Nazis down or throwing eggs at them is counterproductive.

    That said, many of us, including the BBC and the media and political class in general, are in little position to criticise those who did.

    After all, it was our government, with media backing, that helped bomb the Afghans so that they would 'get their government changed' (to quote Sir Michael Boyce) and our media who almost unanimously condemned the Irish people for having the temerity to vote against the Nice Treaty.

    Moreover, we are the best friend of the US, which punished the Palestinians for electing the 'wrong' government and is currently engaged in propaganda in Iraq.

    Let's not have the hypocrisy to portray ourselves as any friends of democracy.

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  • 69. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, happybuyer wrote:

    The BNP were elected! - This is the point - democratically - we do not want to become a country that allows people not to speak? what ever they say - this woman sounded much worse and now I WANT to know what it was that Nick Griffin was going to say? He doesnt represent me but he does represent the system that I am part and proud of and that other countries aspire to! Would they be allowed to pelt eggs at The Chinese prime minister? or Tony Blair or the Prime Minister?

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  • 70. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, U4556381 wrote:

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  • 71. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, supatransam wrote:

    So curiously we are not allowed to hear what Nick Griffin and the BNP have to say, but the commentator insists that she as an unelected champion of everyone speaks for the majority", I suspect her majority consists of herself and a few activist friends, as ever the empty can makes the most noise.

    Surely the very act of stopping the BNP expressing their views now held by a great many of the constituents that elected them, makes her and her associates as bad as the regime she claims be protecting us against by silencing free speech.

    Once again well done to the extreme left who demonstrate once again that they are no different to the BNP just at the other end of the spectrum.

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  • 72. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, JayJason wrote:

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  • 73. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, prettygeorgegit wrote:

    With regard to the B.N.P. I applaud
    the young lady's remarks but don't like
    wasting food. Throw comments not eggs.
    pretty georgegit.

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  • 74. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, moreeggs wrote:

    The BNP might have been voted for "legally" but they were voted for in ignorance and by people who have been misinformed by certain newspapers. They should be given no voice in public in our society. If I could and if they speak anywhere in my region, I will join the protesters. My father suffered Mosley's lot; in my Dad's memory I will join those who protest against the BNP speaking in public. Well done the young woman who just spoke;she did very well during an aggressive interview. Shame on you Eddie.

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  • 75. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, akamarkyb3 wrote:

    The interview with the protestor and the hostile way in which it was carried out is exactly why I have steered clear of radio 4 recently.

    Its perfectly acceptable to fight fascism with eggs. For goodness sake our grandparents generation many of them gave their lives fighting fascism.

    These people only got into power because of those who didn't vote. Let that be a warning to those who don't use their vote.

    The BNP doesn't represent the British Public, so I don't know how they can even purport to do so. Next time though (to those that didn't) please go out and vote.

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  • 76. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, rob_jourdain wrote:

    How dare anyone put themselves up as moral guardians of the rest of us. I agree with the interviewer that although the bnp dont represent the majority, they dont represent me, they do represent a lot of people and are entitled to represent the views of those people. If we attacked anyone we did not agree with, what sort of democracy would we have? Saying "we had a peaceful protest" and "I" didn't have any eggs was very disingenius.

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  • 77. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, pedro37 wrote:

    PM is right, eggs are not the best weapon to fight nazis. Last time we had to use tanks, typhoons, destroyers and courage. It worked

    However I do believe that political neglect of the ordinary working class or pensioner Briton has caused widespread disatisfaction with political process. Change that and the BNP will fade away.
    If no notice is taken the BNP will come back stronger and we will have to defend democracy with force.

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  • 78. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, Simon wrote:

    This is [yet another] sad day for politics when a democratically elected politician is shouted down and denied a platform to speak by a group of unelected protestors. If these unelected protestors felt so strongly about these matters why didnt they stand for election against the BNP and convince the electorate to vote for them? All I can conclude is that these protestors are contemptuous of our democratic and political system as well as those people who felt for what ever reason they wanted to vote for the BNP.
    A democracy is about giving everyone a platform whether you agree with them or not and persuading and convincing the electorate by reason not by mob rule. Appalling!

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  • 79. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, sportscruiser wrote:

    Just listening to Eddie Mair interviewing the young lady from Manchester.
    We did not have much to choose from at the recent elections the choice was between a bunch of crooks who looked upon fiddling their expenses as a right or the BNP. I think instead of throwing eggs at the leader of the BNP we should be looking at the whole polictical system at home and in the EU. and accept that they not fit for purpose and start looking at a complete overhaul of the corrupt mess that is British politics.
    The BNP is just a sympton of a much more serious problem in british public life.

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  • 80. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, blogken wrote:

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  • 81. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, dick catt wrote:

    Like most people I know I find Nick Griffin`s views revolting in the extreme but the egg-throwing episode has played into his hands completely. This is the sort of behaviour one might have expected from the Hitler Youth 70 years ago. Rational arguement must be the way

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  • 82. At 5:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, fireneale wrote:

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  • 83. At 5:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, markgporter wrote:

    Whatever you may think about the BNP the only fascists in evidence today were those hurling eggs.

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  • 84. At 5:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, littledarkstar wrote:

    I was walking home to the train station at the Elephant and Castle yesterday and as I walked up to the shopping centre I heard someone, a man, saying, 'I speak english not ni**er-speak'. Couldn't see who it was, but this is one of the reasons I don't condemn what this lady was saying. There may be more traditional ways of opposing the BNP but a direct method is going to be more effective and anything which stops them from saying that it it blacks and immigrants in general which are the cause of problems in the UK is OK by me.

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  • 85. At 5:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, WestBromBorn wrote:

    Let the BNP spout their vile ideas...

    We are after all an democracy where every political party is allowed their viewpoint, however wrong we may feel it is. We cannot and must not go back to the bad of days of NF marches ending in street brawls with anti facist and police involved.

    The young lady did not articulate her views well enough and the BNP now have fuel for anti left wing comments and yet more publicity....

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  • 86. At 5:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, cameronmoonface wrote:

    The BNP should not be given a platform. I congratulate the protesters, and I hope the eggs were bad!

    What kind of free speech do you think we'd get under the fascists?

    Don't use democracy as an exscuse here. Only 35% of the electorate votes and onlt 8% for the BNP. 92% did not vote for them and we call this democracy! Democracy is a joke. Look at the people we have representing us and you can see that.

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  • 87. At 5:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, simonparrish wrote:

    A dangerous precedent is set when unelected single-issue pressure group activists stiffle freedom of speech by pelting elected MEPs with eggs, however unpalatable their political views might be, and yet claim to represent majority opinion in this country.

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  • 88. At 5:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, teachertradeunionist wrote:

    The important point is that Hitler was also elected democratically. We learnt though our experience of the second world war that the only way to stop fascism is to protest on the streets before they make protests illegal. Trade unions can protest now against fascism but can't once they are in concentration camps. I was at the protest today. The reason we had to be there is because the BNP lied to the electorate. Once the electorate know the BNP want an all-white Britain, they will lose support.

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  • 89. At 5:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, Start spreading the news,He's playing today,I want to see him score today, Sammy Clingan ™ (1987) wrote:

    It's all just more bad eggs!

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  • 90. At 5:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    Lots of new posters here...

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  • 91. At 5:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, wildRedS wrote:

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  • 92. At 5:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, Vorkosigan5 wrote:

    "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter" - George Washington

    If you don't agree with the BNP then destroy them with your logic, your arguments and the quality of your thoughts.

    If the participant tonight was an example then there is very little logic, no agrument and very little quality to the anti fascist thoughts.

    it seems to me that their way of convincing the British public of their case is to ensure that we are not able to hear any voice but theirs and if we dare to have any other opinion we must be silenced.

    Freedom of speech is an absolute not a relative value - otherwise we are more not less likely to end up with dictatorships - of left or right.

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  • 93. At 5:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, duffydapps wrote:

    However abhorrent the views of the BNP might be to most people, they are not an illegal party and therefore have the same rights as everybody else. Denying them to speak only enhances their profile without proper debate.
    And are we not supposed to have free speech? Denying that takes us one step further to fascism.
    Lets have these people on television/radio and expose their views.
    Polititians should worry about the people who voted for them and the underlying cause for their election. But perhaps they are too busy worrying about themselves.

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  • 94. At 5:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, Saltyjerry wrote:

    I have just heard Eddie M talking to some left wing woman from Manchester who organised protest v Nick Griffin. I would never vote for NG or BNP but she made my blood boil thinking she had some God given right to throw eggs at an elected MEP whatever his views.
    We could do without such extremism on either wing!

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  • 95. At 5:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, WiseStDavid wrote:

    The anti-BNP lady today said that the BNP are not representative of views in the uk. That may be so but neither is any other single party truly representative: none approaches anywhere near 51% of the electorate's votes. Also one ought to be able to believe (a) that this country is too crowded now and (b) multi-culturalism is a failure without being branded "right wing" or a fascist. I am not a BNP supporter but the lady today almost made me feel sympathetic to the reaction the BNP leader got. She certainly doesn't speak for me. The BNP must be taken on in open debate.

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  • 96. At 5:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, cherriesandchocolate wrote:

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  • 97. At 5:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, NickWilsonUK wrote:

    Re Nick Griffin - why was the Unite Against Fascism given more air-time than Nick Griffin, despite the fact that she repeatedly issued propaganda (and possibly actionable insults) against members of the BNP? I'm by no means a BNP supporter or voter, but the arrogance of the anti-fascists sickens me.

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  • 98. At 5:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, bonnaconline wrote:

    I do hope you realise that, by allowing that muddle-headed, inarticulate and, quite frankly, very tedious anti-BNP young woman as much airtime as you did on PM, you have probably boosted support for Mr Griffin and his abhorrent policies.

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  • 99. At 5:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

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  • 100. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, Jon Sibbald wrote:

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  • 101. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    One looks vaguely familiar...

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  • 102. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, bonzerpeach wrote:

    to Stephensobo & Sid

    I thought Eddie was incredibly gentle and forebearing in the face of her stupidity, arrogance and fascist views.

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  • 103. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, nosbort wrote:

    Who is the fascist? the one with the objectionable views or the one who
    will not let others express their views?

    I dislike the BNP's views but the more people try to censor them the more I believe that they should be heard.

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  • 104. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, atsukotn wrote:

    I don't think eddie was too aggressive. the interviewee wasted an opportunity to defend the protest by ignoring the questions and trying to co-opt the air time she'd been given as a platform for her own agenda. The questions posed her were done so with the usual ammount of rationality and argumentative logic. well done PM. (i say this as a staunch opponent of the bnp.)

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  • 105. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, ktyrose wrote:

    A young woman has just been interviewed on the programme regarding the BNP. She was asked why she was so against allowing Mr Grffin the right to speak out today and her only defense was it was a peaceful protest, sadly people pre meditated this appalling intrusion on Mr Griffin's rights as no one in their right mind walks down the streets with eggs in their pockets in the hope of coming accross a public speaker! Mr Griffin has every right in this country according to human rights organisations to believe in whatever religion and polictical party he chooses and HE is accused of being facist and racist - exactly what are the people who turned out to egg him then? The young woman also needs to consider that Mr Griffin was voted in by a democratic election process, if she doesnt like it perhaps she should consider the fact that she is wrong and that many do share Mr Griffins ideology, after all in many other countries they employ a local person first and the foreigner must prove beyond doubt that they are the best candidate, surely looking after our own is paramount?

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  • 106. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, justinseine wrote:

    Nick Griffin has been elected to represent the misguided people who elected him. He has to be allowed to do so. That's democracy.

    However, I'm delighted that his repugnant views stir up such strong opposition. Let's engage in argument with the BNP and show them that it's Griffin and his followers who are the minority we don't need or want in Britain.

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  • 107. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, cleverPliny wrote:

    The egg throwing incident just goes to prove how undemocratic the Anti-facist movement has become.
    They did not have any other means of demonstating their undoubted angst
    against a democratically voted leader of a party, which as we know could well be as bad as they make out.
    But once again the far left have left themselves open to justifiable criticism
    They should grow up put up candidates themselves in those voting areas they are concerned about and accept the verdict of the public.
    This act proves once again that the far left is just as bad as the far right.

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  • 108. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, amazingcaptainmorris wrote:

    Maybe his idea was to show that the course of law needs to be followed and if one needs to fight it, join it. Two sides to the same coin, both equally fascistic in outlook.

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  • 109. At 5:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, crushtot wrote:

    I think the BNP and Griffin are the lowest of the low and I abhor all that they stand for.
    However, assuming we still have the right to free speech in this country, I support Griffin and his cohorts to make their case in whatever peaceful way as they see fit, which Griffin is adept at doing.
    The anti-fascist protesters have a perfectly good case which I support, but I don't believe they do themselves anything other than a disservice by blundering in, making threatening behaviour and pelting people with eggs. That's just stupid and merely gives the BNP more publicity.
    Had the protestors had some self-control, Griffins speech wouldn't have been more than a footnote in the day's news.
    As for the woman Eddie was speaking to, it was sad to hear she could neither put together a coherent argument or answer a direct question.
    My advice to the Peoples Front Against Fascism, or whatever they call themselves, is to get their act together as otherwise they'll be rejected as cranks.

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  • 110. At 5:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, SteveIstanbul wrote:

    I am a Brit in Istanbul. I joined the interview after the start. My position is simple; I feel it is entirely correct to engage in civil disobedience against the BNP, just as many "Good Germans" courageoulsy protested against the Nazis both immediately before and after the election of 1933. I consider the BNP to represent a vile ideology with zero committment to democratic inclusion, and it simply has to be stood up to. The evil of Appartheid was partly ended by this form of public pressure. Let us not get to a situation where racism can be thought form any part of legitimate public debate, let alone policy making.

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  • 111. At 5:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, hazifantasi wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 112. At 5:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, dave_cullen wrote:

    Typically the far left use fascist tactics to silence those with whom they disagree, and then accuse them of fascism.
    What would she suggest; discard any votes for the BNP? Only allow left-wing candidates?
    Exteremists will always be there. It is the responsibility of the main-stream parties to make their policies more acceptable to minorities as well as the majority of the electorate.

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  • 113. At 5:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, jamesjam1987 wrote:

    Best interview I have heard in a very long time. Well done!

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  • 114. At 5:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, jjwren wrote:

    I was disgusted with Eddie Mair's tone throughout this interview. Protest is a legitimate and indeed integral part of a democracy, and his ridiculous arguments appeared arrogant, dismissive, and down right idiotic. I am deeply disappointed with the BBC's coverage of this matter.

    I think the interviewee did very well to make some interesting points throughout the interview and I for one will be contacting Unite Against Fascism in order to find out what I can do to help because if this is how the BBC react to their attempts to fight fascism, I hate to think how the BNP will treat the protesters next time.

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  • 115. At 5:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, Rich5147 wrote:

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  • 116. At 5:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, rcgras wrote:

    im sure the guardian had a recipe where they could have made something nice out of those.

    rob, altrincham

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  • 117. At 5:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, Fred-erick wrote:

    Well done Eddie for trying to ask why this group was not allowing an elected euro-MP his right to free speech in our democratic country, unfortunately she failed to grasp the point entirely which unfortunately demonstrates her ignorance of the freedoms granted to her by living in this country. Where were the police bye the way ?

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  • 118. At 5:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, vee-tail wrote:

    What is it about democracy that this strident and egotistic woman fails to understand?
    As Eddie asked her, "who voted for you?"

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  • 119. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, deryck1st wrote:

    the young lady seemed to think that D Day was this month,not65 years ago.my parents fought through that war and in later years said that they would not have done so if they had known what would happen to our country.
    incidentally did the police arrest egg throwers or did Londons litter enforcers take action against them;the demonstrators seemed to behave like the worst type of street hooligans and do not deserve the privilege of living in a democratic country

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  • 120. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, thoughfut wrote:

    You BBC current affairs interviewers clearly have 3 modes of asking people questions: soft, hard and hostile: soft for "ordinary people", hard for politicians, and hostile for people, we are being told by you and the BBC, are beyond the pale - whose ideas you regard as unacceptable - not a very neutral procedure at the best of times. But I was surprised that you were applying the hostile approach to the demonstrator against Nick Griffin, just as I do not like to hear it adopted against Nick Griffin himself. Let us try to allow people to make their arguments, not dismiss "extremists" in advance.

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  • 121. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, Gariathome wrote:

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  • 122. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, Nickthe drummer wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 123. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, Janeaitchison wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 124. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, thunderfoxglove wrote:

    If we could travel back to 1930s Germany, I wonder if we would defend Hitler's right to free speech or would we wish to take more radical action?

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  • 125. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, John_Biggins wrote:

    Chucking eggs at the BNP is exactly what they want to happen: it bolsters their paranoid view of the world and reinforces their conviction that everyone is engaged in a conspiracy against them. They tend to be confrontational people by nature - as you'd soon agree if you'd ever been obliged to share an office with one of them - so giving them the confrontation they seek does seem to be just a bit misguided

    A more constructive approach might be to make Messrs. Griffin and Brons do the job they've just been elected to perform: representing ALL their constitutents and not just the ones whose skin colour they happen to approve of. At the very least it would keep them out of mischief - attending Waffen SS reunions and so forth - and it might even have the effect of civilising them somewhat. Ian Paisley joined the European Parliament as a roaring hooligan vowing to tear the place apart - yet by the end of his time there he was widely respected as a model constituency MEP working tirelessly on behalf of all his constituents whether Protestant or Catholic. People can change.

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  • 126. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, JollySickAndTired wrote:

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  • 127. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, tonidew wrote:

    i wish someone would ask Nick Griffin what steps he's taken to integrate into Welsh society

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  • 128. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, helganog wrote:

    If it had been the BNP throwing eggs we would be listening to howls of outrage about infringement of civil liberties and the gagging of a democratically elected MEP.
    The BNP represent the majority of electors who bothered to vote in that Ward and have a legitimate right to be heard - however little some people may like their ideas.
    I object to someone purporting to speak for me as one of the "majority" who oppose the BNP. Democracy speaks for me.

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  • 129. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, rob_jourdain wrote:

    @109 - I already think they are cranks, and if that woman stood for election I wouldn't vote for her

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  • 130. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, leegal wrote:

    As a conservative all my life, I am horrified at the actions of these left-wing fascists. By rejecting the legitimate ballot box they reject democracy, and their idealized stance that only their view can be right is as much of a danger as the far-right ideology of the Hitler days.

    Given that significantly tamer demonstrations outside parliament have resulted in arrests under the terrorism act why were these left-wing demonstrators not arrested - or are the police too scared to intervene to protect democracy simply because it is the BNP?

    Terrorism is defined as
    1. the use or threat of action where involves serious violence against a person
    (Throwing eggs counts)
    AND
    2. the use of a threat designed to influence the government or to intimidate the public or a section of the public
    (Intimidating a legitimately elected party is this),
    AND
    3. the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause.
    (This was admitted by the organiser or the demonstration).

    If democracy is to work, it must protect all - otherwise we're back in the 1930s.

    I don't support the BNP views (in fact I strongly oppose them) but I do support their right as an elected party to have the same freedoms as the other political parties.

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  • 131. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, frankinsense wrote:

    Of course the BNP should be allowed to speak, to try to prevent them just gives them ammunition and allows them to perpetuate their whine that they are "persecuted". The egg-throwing demos and the well-intentioned but immature-sounding spiel from the young lady on the program allow Griffin to claim that his main opponents are left wing students. I am 62 and a Lib Dem / Green supporter, but I am vehemently and actively opposed to the BNP.

    Many people who don't consider themselves racist voted BNP because they are concerned about immigration and believe the BNP when they say that the major parties are in favour of uncontrolled immigration. This can only be countered by these parties emphasizing that they do have policies aimed at controlling immigration. This is of course not the same as the BNP's actual and declared ultimate objective of 'repatriating' as many non-whites as possible - preferably all of them.

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  • 132. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, RichardExeter wrote:

    The BBC has given far too much air time to the BNP. Move on, stop giving them the oxogen of publicity.

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  • 133. At 5:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, ChrisFromBristol wrote:

    An elected MEP was making a speech. The protesters shouted him down and attacked him with eggs. Which was the fascist action?

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  • 134. At 5:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, ZiggyNoShoes wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 135. At 5:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, gregorykim wrote:

    The fascist in this matter is the unelected young woman who thinks she has the right to try to silence someone who has been elected democratically by hundreds of thousands of voters just because she doesn't agree with him. She should stand for election herself.I wouldn't agree with much of what the BNP stand for, but I'd defend their right to their views against those who think that democracy is fine if it leads to the result they want. Lets hope she grows up and learns a bit more about the meaning of democracy.

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  • 136. At 5:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, splendidRevolting wrote:

    I find it ironic on the day after the BNP have elected 2 MEPs, there is an item on the Today prog, when a splendid veteran of the Spanish Civil War was interviewed who is being given Spanish citizenship and when asked why he went to fight replied it was to stand up against fascism which was spreading accross Europe!

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  • 137. At 5:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, TherealJamesBennett wrote:

    Get a grip Sid. She was not answering the question and Eddie was forced to repeat himself

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  • 138. At 5:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, alphaALFREDTHEGREAT wrote:

    Well, is she the best they've got as a spokesperson? What a complete dimwit, she has probably handed the BNP a few more paying members. What the hell are the rest of these idiots like? There were fascists there sure, but is was not the BNP.

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  • 139. At 5:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, druid5uk wrote:

    Why can't the anti Griffin camp supply an eloquent speaker to appear on the programme?
    It makes me ashamed that these great ideas are so poorly expressed. It seems that the BNP have won the battle by being both eloquent and put upon by protestors who do not understand that ideas must be expressed without violence however small.

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  • 140. At 5:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, wycombecat wrote:

    Whilst I disagree with everthing the BNP stands for they were elected to the European Parliment on a democratic vote. Does the group who pelted Griffin with eggs only agree with free speech as long as they agree to it. The way to combat the BNP is by free speech and rational argument. How dare that young woman say she speaks for me when she will not let other people speak to make their case however misguided. I suspect that the BNP will be out of office at the next election when people get their rational heads on again.

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  • 141. At 5:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, AlanHodge wrote:

    Two comment about Nick Griffin issue:
    What gives your interviewee the righ to claim that she represents the majority of people?
    It apppears that democartaicic electiced people are ok if she agrees with their views - a worse premise that the BNP. I have no sympathies with the BNP but they were elected.

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  • 142. At 5:31pm on 09 Jun 2009, b8dor1955 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 143. At 5:31pm on 09 Jun 2009, robertsimons wrote:

    What is wrong is the electoral system which is used for European elections.

    In Northern Ireland they use a proper proportional representation system: the Single Transferable Vote. This allows electors to express their preference for individual candidates rather than for a party list.

    The system used in the rest of the UK is designed to give the party apparatchiks the power to control who becomes an MEP. It makes MEPs remote from their electors and - as we now see - allows people to be elected whom only a small minority have voted for.

    With the Single Transferable Vote every vote counts. With the party list system the votes for the candidates with the smallest number of votes are discarded. If those people's votes were reallocated to their second or third preferences, we might have had a very different result.

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  • 144. At 5:31pm on 09 Jun 2009, UncleDance wrote:

    How ironic that those who claim to be liberal are the first to engage in violent protest and talk of suppressing the views of anyone who object. Chilling.

    The reason, imho, why the BNP now have a platform is that we have failed to address immigration for too long and have made a moral issue over it, reducing it to a simple gut-level matter of race.

    For too long, anyone who has even queried the this received wisdom has been howled down by the majority of the public, the media (especially broadcast), our politicians - in short US.

    We must stop falling over ourselves in our anxiety to show how racist we're not, polishing our halos on each other and being knocked out by our sense of decency.

    I vote for immigration but not to turn where I live into a foreign country or have my culture denigrated as a matter of course.

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  • 145. At 5:31pm on 09 Jun 2009, noblelordbyron wrote:

    That the BNP are appalling bigots is self-evident, but they were in good company tonight with the anti-fascist guest. Self-serving, inarticulate, presumptuous and arrogant, these people are always speaking for others and/or speaking their minds, with little mind worth speaking. They defend free speech with puerile, undergraduate demonstrations. If a hail of eggs is your finest argument, please stay at home. And grow up while you're about it.

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  • 146. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, JWeaver wrote:

    I've always respected Eddie Mair, and
    this evening's interview with an UAF
    agitator has raised my respect: this is
    the kind of journalism we need on the
    BBC. I've no doubt Eddie will grill
    a BNP activist just as thoroughly.

    The UAF person believes she is
    supported by the vast majority of
    British people. I'd like to see that
    tested (put aside all the other present
    issues). What affronts to democracy
    does she fear from the BNP, that she's
    not herself perpetrating? Nick Griffin
    looks rational and reasonable against
    these hysterical fundamentalists.

    j.weaver

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  • 147. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, freedomanddemocracy wrote:

    We need proper democracy and free speech in this country. I have been shocked at the incredibly biased, prejudiced and hateful media treatment of the BNP during the elections. How can it be acceptable that "liberal" and "democratic" people determine illiberally and undemocratically that certain opinions are unacceptable should be unheard. This is the very lack of freedom which inspires people to vote BNP. The BNP has grown in popularity because the main parties and the media have refused to openly and honestly discuss issues of race, immigration, nationality and patriotism. If you think that the BNP are mad, bad, nasty, wrong, hateful or misguided then surely simply to expose them to John Humphries and Paxman will send them packing just like anyone else. In the end, we will all be safer and more free if we have proper freedom to openly and vigorously debate every subject.

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  • 148. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, whirltryst wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 149. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, _eve_123 wrote:

    I'm 26, I've never voted before this election, I live in Nelson in Lancashire and the threat of the BNP getting in here was enough to get me registered and voting against them.

    My friends, who've never voted before either and I, felt so opposed to the BNP that we volunteered for anti BNP organizations and walked door to door posting anti-BNP papers.

    The area I live in, a multi-cultural town, not too far from Burnley is supposed to be rife with racial tension according to the BNP. It is not.

    Of all the people we met while posting door to door, two people supported the BNP, one person followed us up the road to thank us for posting the leaflet and everyone else was shocked at the real attitudes and policies the BNP hold.

    The BNP 'truth truck' pulled up outside one of our schools recently; the school had a mixed population...all under the voting age.

    The BNP members on the truck harangued passers by and students with fascist propaganda...they had to leave after students and teachers and the response of the local community was to send them on their way.
    And rightly so.

    I'm only sorry some people fell for their lies.

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  • 150. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, Utopia_Activist wrote:


    Of course pelting people with eggs is not the way forward, but what are people going to do get rid of the BNP? If I was there I probably would have done the same as them because the BNP has been taking advantage of clueless and dillusional voters!

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  • 151. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, john_ellis wrote:

    Who gave that arrogant woman at the start of tonight's programme the right to speak for the rest of us? She certainly doesn't speak for me. There seems little to choose between one bunch of thugs and another. They deserve each other.

    One: in a democracy everyone should be able to speak - particularly those with views most of us totally repudiate.
    Debate moves minds and wins arguments - not screaming, punching and slinging eggs.

    Two: antics like this just create sympathy for the sour negativities of the BNP and make martyrs of them.














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  • 152. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, Kaylesleigh wrote:

    Normally I would be against any protest that involved any form of violence, and the 'spokesperson' for the protest group was unconvincing not to mention a little fascistic herself.

    But I think ridicule, applied to extremism, is highly useful. Whether it's shoes thrown at George W Bush, or eggs at Nick Griffin, it's a form of healthy contempt expressed in mildly violent terms that might perhaps encourage the target to recognise their views are wholly unpalatable. Had anybody dared to pelt Hitler with eggs when he appeared in public, he might have looked more like a ranting bigot and less like the national hero that he managed to pass as for far too long.

    And if people are willing to use eggs, face arrest, and pay the penalty for their assaults, then they are exercising their rights and their responsibilities, in a democracy that supports free speech.

    As I say, I can't condone egg-throwing, but that doesn't stop a big smile crossing my face whenever I hear the headline read out. And that contradiction is one that many in the UK will be feeling today, I suspect.

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  • 153. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, uppalumpa wrote:

    Well done eddie....This woman is out of order and in fantasy land if she thinks she represents the majority.

    A political correct nandy-pandy - we are bored of people like this.
    Get a life or see how many people will vote for you - I think we can be sure that NOT many would. Maybe a lesson in white rascism would'nt go amiss.

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  • 154. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    On the other hand, a woman threw green custard at Peter Mandelson...

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  • 155. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, singingbandit007 wrote:

    Why should she try to deny Griffin his right to speak?

    If the BNP policies are so awful let them be aired and discussed and discredited.

    I voted for the BNP for the first time - I want to know what everyone is so frightened of.

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  • 156. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, benelford wrote:

    Far from being aggressive, Eddie's interviewing style was gently pointed; he showed up the appallingly irrational approach of his interviewee.

    I reject what the BNP stands for, but I find the anti-democratic and violent approach of these opponents of the BNP at least as repellent.

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  • 157. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, mtrcricket wrote:

    As a Jew, a lifelong anti-apartheid campaigner and a committed conservative I abhor the BNP.
    However the excesses of the BNP are no excuse for the fascist behaviour of the anti-fascist rabble out today.
    The only way, in a democratic society, to deal with the likes of Nick Griffin is to let them speak and challenge their foul ideology.

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  • 158. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    'Me too. Ben Bradshaw made the same argument in Committee yesterday. Well-informed people understand what they stand for but unfortunately not everyone listens to intelligent radio or reads a decent newspaper.It is these people that need to be told exactly what they are.'

    Ah, Mr Bradshaw. He that beasted the BBC on the Today Programme for telling the truth about Saddam's WMDs being a piece of fiction worthy of JK Rowling.

    Mr Bradshaw that said that the BBC was pro-Israeli after they decided not to broadcast the DEC appeal for Gaza.

    I can't wait to vote this government out.

    Voting out this government will be better than sex?

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  • 159. At 5:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, radio_monitor wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 160. At 5:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, newlach wrote:

    The woman who represents the group whose supporters throw eggs was especially weak. The BNP have played by the rules and Nick Griffen is a democratically elected politician. Rabble-rousers who assault MEPs should be prosecuted, and MEPs who hold controversial views should have their views challenged.

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  • 161. At 5:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, honestfruittree wrote:

    Your line of questioning was ok in my view.The beeb must be seen to be on no-ones side on this issue.Yesterday Jeremy Vine stopped someone talking in vague support of our supposed democracy, by bluntly interrupting her so that another listener,who was of afro carribean descent, could put her view.
    Whilst i hate the bnp,we must be carefull to give them an even platform.Any favoritism gives these idiots a higher platform.

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  • 162. At 5:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, telstartoni wrote:

    I agree with a number of posters that Eddie's tone was aggressive and bullying towards someone who ought to be applauded for having the courage to get to Westminster and register her disgust on half of those who despise the BNP and all it stands for. Perhaps if the the hundresds of thousands of protesters against the invasion of Iraq had thrown a few eggs the BBC might have paid more attention to their views rather than those of the "elected" politicians who certainly did not represent the view of the electorate.

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  • 163. At 5:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, Durgates wrote:

    Unpleasant as the BNP's policies may be, Nick Griffin is nevertheless a democratically elected politician. If fascism is effectively synonymous with contempt for democracy--and I believe that to be the case, then the representative of Unite Against Fascism interviewed by Mr Mair is no less a fascist than Griffen: she clearly has only contempt for the voters who put Griffin into the European Parliament. ZANU PF supporters pelted Morgan Tsangirai with eggs once at a rally in Harare: then a year later they beat him almost to death.

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  • 164. At 5:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, Norfolkbloke wrote:

    If we really believe the BNP to be utterly loathesome and repulsive, then the best thing we can do is give them the opportunity to show the fact. So long as they are shouted down and silenced, they may appear to have something good to say. Better to let them open their mouths and remove all doubt that they are repulsive.

    What is more, Griffin and Co. are able to make themselves appear to be martyrs. Many people feel a reflex sympathy for the underdog, and a man being shouted down by left-wing mobs certainly appears to be an underdog!

    Sadly the interviewee failed to answer questions about eggs, and apparently thought all she had to do was talk at length about the BNP's views.

    I hope she voted in the election!

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  • 165. At 5:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, burgundygardener wrote:

    'Democracy' does not mean freedom for those with facist views to express those views in the way the BNP has done in the past and will continue to do so. Whilst throwing eggs may not be the most mature way of shutting them up it worked today and gave PM air time to someone I guess would not have had it otherwise. The BNP should not be permitted to exist in a civilised society and no I don't think people who have been conned into voting for them can have thir views heard in Strasburg.

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  • 166. At 5:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, Buzzardbob wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 167. At 5:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    So which side do all these posters awaiting moderation support. Let's take bets.

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  • 168. At 5:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, sinic wrote:

    the actions of the so called anti fascists brought to mind the way the nazi's behaved in germany before they came to power

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  • 169. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, CaitinMcKiernan wrote:

    The best way to diminish the BNP is to respond directly in a rational, savvy way whenever they speak through their speeches or posters or interviews. Getting into violent personal attacks or kicking their cars is strategically stupid.

    I campaigned against the BNP before the Euro elections. With over 20 years experience of campaigning on emotive (even explosive) issues, I've always found the best tactic is to listen and then respond. That way, poisonous ignorant ideas are out there for everyone to see. Let them sabotage their own publicity.

    In contrast, silencing them, banning their advertising or attacking them with violence plays right into the hands of their supporters and motivates them.

    After the election, I heard someone who switched to them say it was deliberately to be contrary. It's a badly thought-through kind of rebellion and dangerous but effective all the same.

    So helping the BNP to act like persecuted silenced martyrs is an own goal by anyone appalled by their Nazi ideas.

    Caitlin McKiernan
    East London (where the BNP failed)

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  • 170. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, blogman1973 wrote:

    From what interviews I have heard, many of the BNP votes where protest votes; the guy interviewed yesterday beggared belief yesterday when he said that he voted for the BNP because the 3 main parties told him not to. Where is the country going except down the toilet with that sort of attitude?

    Okay, they are elected "democratically", but theres is a politics based on hatred of other races. To clear up an earlier point made, the police are banned from joining the BNP because they are not meant to hate people based on ethnicity. The BNP make me ashamed to be British. How dare they call themselves the British National Party when many 2nd and 3rd generation Britons are not white?! They dont represent me or anyone I know who is British.

    I dont hold with the egging, but I can fully understand why they did it. Hatred needs to be stood up to!

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  • 171. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, invisibleoldenglish wrote:

    However much these people object to the BNP they have the democratic right to be heard.

    Loads of older english people agree with feeling that we are the ones who are ignored and think this country is not ours any more.

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  • 172. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, Gadge1439 wrote:

    Didn't like EM's treatment of the speaker for Unite Against Fascism.
    Is as impartial as he should be, he certainly failed to give me that impression with his aggressive manner, his insistsnce that the interviewee had thrown eggs or souflee when she said more than once she hadn't.I wish he'd stop trying to be Paxman.

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  • 173. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, rfbeaver wrote:

    What is democracy? I think it means: If you wish to support a particular group (a political party in this case) then one casts a vote.

    If you lose the vote for whom you wished to chose, then hard luck. You were not in the majority.

    If you riot because you did not agree with the democratic process then that must be a dictatorship...because they believe only they are correct.

    I did not vote BNP because I do not believe in their Policy . This egg throwing incident is wrong and I say Nick Grifffin needs his chance to say that what he needs to say. Not to be shouted down....you never know, through this incident he may gain suppoprt.

    RF Beaver of Northallerton, Yorkshire

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  • 174. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, JayJason wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 175. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, dungeekin wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 176. At 5:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, Antlongish wrote:

    Hello PM,

    A good interview in that Mr Mair stuck to the subject, much of what I've heard seemed intent on tripping the BNP person up! He's absolutely right, the BNP is a legitimate party with properly elected representatives. They should have done their fighting during the hustings.

    And no, I voted UKIP!

    Regards Ant

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  • 177. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, Maartje wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 178. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, livingSilversurfer wrote:

    I supported Joanna Lumley's campaign for the Gurkhas as they had fought for this country. Most people I speak to feel the same. However, this country has 'welcomed' too many immigrants who are just economic migrants attracted by our benefits system. In my part of London over 90% of the children in school are non white British.
    Would the anti BNP protestors have told the Aborigines, Maoris and North American Indians that their cultures were not threatened by immigration and in fact they were racist to say so?

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  • 179. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    fJd 99, Go away, this thread is for new posters only.

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  • 180. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, perschke wrote:

    The extreme views of the BNP may not have been considered by most of the public who voted for them if the current main parties had not insisted on being so politically corrent. Listen to the British people. We welcome various creeds and cultures but by choosing to live here incomers should integrate, adhere to our laws and not wish to inflict their own ways of living onto us or use us as a means of obtaining a living on our benefits. Having worked in the airline business and now in the NHS I have come across may such instances of abusing our good will.

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  • 181. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, seagullhart wrote:

    I don't agree with pelting anyone with eggs but it scares me how reasonable the BNP can make themselves sound. Our MPs need to take some responsibility for the BNP being elected after all it is the failure of the mainstream parties that let these vile people in rather than an increase in support amongst voters.
    This should be a wake up call to everyone that without a strong democracy extremists can infilrate our institutions
    Wake up & taste the coffee Mr Brown & Mr Cameron! remember our democratic tradition is more important than your tribal party loyalties.

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  • 182. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, magicaura7 wrote:

    We seem to to be living in an unequal society, Re: the B.N.P protest like or loath the party I recall several meetings in public by various moslem groups being shaparoned by the police, not letting any one even have a say, and what about the street meetings by what was his name? Hamza anyway the preacher with a hook for a hand no one could open there mouth to argue back the Nazi state the lady is so concerned with is here all ready, if she would have done that to the above lot shed be locked up now.

    put that in yer egg soufle and chuck it.

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  • 183. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, johnnyandros wrote:

    The interview with the anti BNP yobbo was very enlightening.She doesn@ speak for the almost 1000000 who voted BNP.What right does she have to invalid these votes.I have never voted BNP and never will,but they have the same right to free speech as she does.In all fairness Nick Griffin should be given the right of reply by the BBC,but I'm not holding my breath.

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  • 184. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, Thruns_Guinneabottle wrote:

    For fifty years, every survey has shown that seventy percent of the British people do not want third world immigration into this country. The mainstream parties showed their undemocratic credentials by constantly ignoring the wishes of the people. The BNP is therefore the most democratic party we have.

    The real fascists are this stupid egg woman and her friends. IPSO FACTO.

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  • 185. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, newmother1 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 186. At 5:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, HelenZao123 wrote:

    As a member of UK's racial minority (but cultural majority) I very much regret the gagging of the MEP from BNP today. Having made Britain my home and country, over the last 20 years Britain has become so intolerant I for one now wish to emigrate. That woman Eddie interviewed did not answer one question with a straight answer. Do gaggers such as her realise how fascistic their attitude and behaviour are?

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  • 187. At 5:36pm on 09 Jun 2009, shimmerinlights wrote:

    As much as I find nick griffins views abhorrent i'm afraid that allowing those we disagree with a voice is the price of freedom of speech. You can not draw some kind of subjective line between those you allow freedom of speech and those you don't. And you certainly cannot attack bad thugs with good thugs and say you're defending the majority i'm sure thats what the BNP would say!
    Wasn't it Gandhi who said the best test of a democratic society is how it treats it's minorities.

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  • 188. At 5:36pm on 09 Jun 2009, TellUs62 wrote:

    The sad fact is that whenever fascists have a platform to express their views physical attacks on black people, gays, gypsies and travellers and all the other groups that fascists loathe increase. Even if Nick Griffin doesn't personally get his hands dirty, he gives aid and comfort to those who attack these and others. A debating society doesn't deter physical attacks. Only physical force does. When Mosley's blackshirts were stopped in Cable Street it was by force. When the National Front was stopped in Brick Lane it was by the Anti-Nazi League. And of course, Hitler was elected. Of course argument with ideas is necessary but so is confrontation. And as weapons go, eggs are much more palatable (actually and metaphorically) than petrol or faeces through letter boxes - a favoured fascist approach.

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  • 189. At 5:36pm on 09 Jun 2009, t_philip_m wrote:

    Of course we should listen and engage with the BNP. They represent and were voted for by a small but significant amount of people. we need to understand what those people are attracted to and hopefully find acceptable solutions in mainstream parties.

    To disrepsect elected representatives by shouting them down, egg throwing etc.. is on the verge of inciting hatred and violence against a minority group. This is about the worst thing the BNP themselves have been accused of...........so why copy their approach if you don't agree with it?

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  • 190. At 5:36pm on 09 Jun 2009, Yorkshireminer wrote:

    I am neither a racist nor a multiculturlist, what I am is a fully paid up member of the UK Democracy and whether you like it or not everyone has the right to be herd, this is a must especially for elected representatives who carry a mandate from a % of the people.

    Ironically the Brown Shirted Stormtroopers evolved because the communists kept disrupting Nazi meetings.

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  • 191. At 5:36pm on 09 Jun 2009, william-morgan wrote:

    On Wikipedia it is claimed that Arthur Scargill refuses to condemn Stalin. In my mind this makes him as pleasant as any Hitler apologist. I still think he has a right to speak.

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  • 192. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, batroost wrote:

    I'm vehemently opposed to everything the BNP stands for BUT I also accept that he is an elected MEP. He has a right to speak - if you don't want to listen to him, turn away; you have a right not to listen.
    Shame on those who stayed at home on JUne 4th - they got exactly what they voted for!

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  • 193. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, gunner_42 wrote:

    All this talk of Nick Griffin's right to freedom of speech - he is being allowed to speak. No governmental organisation is stopping him! It is simply a fact that the vast majority of the public find his views offensive. While freedom of speech means that we do not have a right not to be offended, we surely do have the right to pelt offensive things with eggs.

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  • 194. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, Mikejohn1111 wrote:

    Obviously the BNP should be allowed to be heard. I am not a BNP supporter but listening to the protest leader on your programme inclines me more towards rather than against them. Some of the things the BNP represent are frightening. So are the things that these protesters represent.
    Some years ago when I heard a BNP representative subjected to extreme rudeness by a local BBC presenter I was so incensed that I voted BNP in a local election just out of shear annoyance. I don't like being told what I should think; I want to hear the arguments and make up my own mind.

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  • 195. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, pedro37 wrote:

    My earlier blog seems to have disappeared from the list. I assume it has been cut by the moderator. Please explain as it was only drawing a historical parallel and did not infringe your list of Donts

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  • 196. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, Lady_Sue wrote:

    [Never seen so many modded comments!]

    Nick Griffin was elected and Sarah Cavanagh, like it or not, has to accept it.

    The egg-pelting (while I don't condone it), might have been better targetted at those who did not come out to vote against him.

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  • 197. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, strokecitydave wrote:

    "Do as you would be done by"


    Good for the protesters. Despite what Griffin claims, he only defends the right of free speech for certain people. He should be denied a platform wherever he goes.

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  • 198. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, JayJason wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 199. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, electronicFulhamite wrote:

    Well done the egg throwers and to Sarah Cavanagh for keeping her cool under unnecessarily aggressive questioning.

    If a few people had pelted Hitler with eggs at the start of his career, history might have been very different.

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  • 200. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, Outragedasever wrote:

    I have joined this blog simply so that I can complain about the agressive bullying way in which Eddy interviewed this woman. Her voice could be heard quivering quite distinctly.

    From the comments above, and the recent success of the BNP, it seems that the popular shift to the right is well underway.

    I wonder how my parents generation would feel if they had lived to see the ideas they fought and died to defend us from, being promoted and supported by their own children and grandchildren.

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  • 201. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, worldat1 wrote:

    How can you talk about BNP thugs when you are a representative of the group that is doing all of the shouting and throwing?
    Constantly talking about how she is part of the majority and is here to represent it. Unfortunately the majority in Manchester have voted and they have elected that dreadful man Griffin, truly shameful conduct from all parties.

    The worst thing is that Mr Griffin actually comes out looking like the victim. I certainly hope that this doesnt give him more fuel for the fire as I suspect it will.

    Can we not find someone with some common sense to oppose Mr. Griffin in a democratically appropriate way?

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  • 202. At 5:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, andrewjmitchell wrote:

    The protest against the BNP entirely plays into their hands. We live in a representative democracy in which free speech is valued. Whether we like it or not, Nick Griffin has been democratically elected and therefore should be allowed to speak. The irony of this protest is that it succeeds only in encouraging sympathy for the BNP (who become "free speech martyrs") and provides them with lots of free publicity; indeed, by refusing to allow Griffin to speak, it may even prompt some people to wonder who the real fascists are in this situation. Let them speak and let the "anti-racist organisations, trade unions and communities" challenge them in debate, through the proper democratic processes. If we don't maintain these standards and expectations, the BNP wins the debate by default. And who wants that?

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  • 203. At 5:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    fJd, It's even clogged up the RECENT COMMENTS thingy. I wonder how all these posters feel about having to await moderation when we get straight through.

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  • 204. At 5:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, Shakassoc wrote:

    In 1930s Germany, it was the Nazis who broke up other people's meetings and used violence to suppress their views. It is therefore ironic that the ghastly self-opinionated woman, who has been elected by nobody, should describe the BNP as Nazis. If I didn't have well-infomed, very definite negative opinons about the BNP, that harridan would have persuaded me to vote for them.

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  • 205. At 5:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, Segilla wrote:

    For good or ill, Nick Griffin has been elected by democratic vote.
    I would rather have him speaking than that unelected, evasive mouth-on-legs, the supporter of the rabble who you interviewed this evening.
    Al.

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  • 206. At 5:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, joatdigitaloak wrote:

    as a new blogger but an avid R4 listener, I feel incensed and make the point that althjough I don't support the BNP views, I don't like to have my views presumeb by someone I've never heard of!

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  • 207. At 5:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, tulipbloke wrote:

    However repugnant his views, Griffin was elected and in the area your interviewee lives. She had her democratic say when she voted against him- now she should let those that voted for the BNP enjoy theirs by allowing him to represent their views.

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  • 208. At 5:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, SheptheFrog wrote:

    An excellent interview and interesting too when the line of questioning and the responses are considered. Whether popular or not, the BNP has been democratically elected by voters in the constituency of the interviewee and member of unite against facism, an unelected organisation that promotes peaceful protest by throwing eggs at the elected official. Violent protest against unpopular views held by elected members isn't the way to express an opposition. The BNP in the UK has secured 2 seats in the European Parliament - 2 seats, that's all. Let's look at the number of votes secured against the number of voters that turned out last week. More worrying is a report today that an elected Austrian politician has advocated the abolision of books in schools! Now that rings a bell when put in the context of facism?

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  • 209. At 5:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, juneyg wrote:

    How are the majority of people in this country to be able to decide if they disagree with the National Fronts policies if we aren't allowed to hear him and to make our own judgements? Where is the democracy in that? Are we to be denied that by some idiot who has not sought election in this country and can't answer questions adequately? If I want someone to champion a cause for me I will select my own and that hopefully will be someone better than this lady!

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  • 210. At 5:39pm on 09 Jun 2009, Bruce Mills wrote:

    Altough I voted LibDem I was quietly pleased that the BNP scored a hit too in the recent elections . At last , a demonstration of democracy at its best , where even the minnows can get a bite upon the fringe of power -sometimes .
    For the life of me I cannot comprehend how Nick Griffin has collected such hatred upon himself for expressing views that seem perfectly reasonable to me and that are not too different to those of UKIP , say , and it must be said , in the near future , those of the major parties also , who will have to take on board the fact that government enforced multiculturalism and PC is not going to work .
    The anti-Nazi zealot that Eddie had to interview just now , gave a very poor account of herself and her shrill chums for not allowing Griffin to speak . Their tactics are exactly those of the people she affects to despise so much . Theirs is not the voice of freedom that I hear but shallow minded bigotry . No , despite what she says , she does not speak on my behalf .
    Isn't there something in a phrase which goes , " ... doth protest too much " .

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  • 211. At 5:39pm on 09 Jun 2009, amazingcaptainmorris wrote:

    EGGS. A potent symbol of the meak challenging the strong. Surely this has created negative, petulant image for the attackers and a stronger one for the attacked. Any publicity is good publicity so the axiom goes but for who exactly? Seems like it's good for griffin

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  • 212. At 5:39pm on 09 Jun 2009, itscalleddemocracy wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 213. At 5:39pm on 09 Jun 2009, lavender wrote:

    I am very frightened of Nick Griffin, he is very clever and knows exactly how to say the 'right' thing. I don't believe in free speech for people like him who are dangerous to society and encourage intolerance and worse. I was very disappointed in Eddie, who bullied the woman interviewed in a way that makes me wonder about his views.

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  • 214. At 5:39pm on 09 Jun 2009, stephenmunt wrote:

    Thank you for your robust questioning of Ms Kavanagh of Unite Against Facism. Her self righteous and dimwitted assumption of moral superiority is at least as scary as the BNP.

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  • 215. At 5:39pm on 09 Jun 2009, pb321go wrote:

    Why were the police not protecting the BNP people? I didn't realize the police were paid high salaries and excellent pensions to do their jobs according to their own personal whim.

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  • 216. At 5:40pm on 09 Jun 2009, lovetodiscuss wrote:

    Hello Eddie
    I am sorry for the state of our democracy. This is another typical case of people taking things (for granted) without being willing to give something back. Giving something back is taking responsibility for preserving and cherishing the most powerful gift of democracy . To do so, it only takes a little bit of preparation making sure one is on the electoral register and taking the trouble to go down to the polling station and exercising that formidable power bestowed on every eligible individual in this wonderful democracy. We have no right to deprive anyone, who has been elected through the democratic process, from representing the majority who voted them in, no matter how unpalatable that might seem.

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  • 217. At 5:40pm on 09 Jun 2009, wildhorse5678 wrote:

    "They have to be stopped because they are anti-democratic. = so said an earler poster ref BNP !! This is clearly rubbish as they stood for election and people voted them in - Whats anti-democratic about this. . (I must say that I dont support BNP but lets not make silly remarks)

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  • 218. At 5:40pm on 09 Jun 2009, aquaticali wrote:

    It is natural for people to be alarmed at the BNP being elected. However it is too simplistic to portray those people who voted BNP as racist. The BNP vote is indicative of many working class people feeling ignored by mainstream politics. Insecurity over jobs, worries of immigration are understandable in the current climate. The BNP offer simp-listic solutions that working class people understand such as blaming outsiders and nationalisation. Pelting Nick Griffin gives him credibility and unites many against what may be percieved as a middle class who neither understand or care about the worries of the working people. I admire the energy of the protesters and share their sentiments but that energy would better be served by working in areas that vote BNP bringing people together and understanding the needs of those people than cheap publicity stunts like that today.

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  • 219. At 5:41pm on 09 Jun 2009, XBobXX wrote:

    I was sad to hear the woman put up such an inept arguement and well done to Eddie in questionning her robustly, her behaviour was out of order and needed to be challenged.

    I would really like to hear The BNP challenged this way - that last challenge I heard (on AM) was really weak needing to go back 25 or more years to rake up banalities such as 'Facist'.

    Come on, take the BNP on, talk about todays issues and show them for what everybody tells me they are. So far the BNP are winning the public debate - don't we have anyoen who can discuss the issues with them? I'd watch the debate between Nick Griffin and Shami Chakrabarti

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  • 220. At 5:41pm on 09 Jun 2009, JohnOfEnfield wrote:

    I do not agree with the politics of the BNP in any way.

    However the lady you interviewed came across as incoherent and a fascist as evidenced by her words & deeds.
    (A working definition being authoritarian views imposed by violence - left or right wing). The very fabric of our society is at risk when politics descends to this level of violence.

    You gave her far too much deference.
    Much less than the BBC usually gives the Conservative leadership or even our own Foreign minister recently. Why? Have you lost your powers of penetrating argument?

    If the arguments of the BNP are not given airtime they will continue to grow. If their arguments are not fully exposed and discussed, unemotionally and rationally - they will continue to make progress. It was most instructive to see the interviews with Griffin & Brons immediately after they were elected.

    The BNP is answering the one question which is deeply troubling many voters, and which New Labour will not allow to be discussed without the usual spin and the usual "racist" smear being applied - "why have we so significantly increased immigration since New Labour came to power?".

    If the BNP's leaders were given their due airtime and made to discuss the basis and impact of their policies I am convinced that they would lose votes.

    If the government of the day allowed proper discussion on a policy decision (increased migration) for which they did not ask and therefore did not receive a mandate then the BNP would have no appeal to the voters and would instantly become a vestigal presence in the UK body politic. New Labour might even benefit from increased trust from the voters!

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  • 221. At 5:41pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    David,

    It must be so frustrating for them.

    But what can be done. There could be some with a great big diatribe of expletives?

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  • 222. At 5:41pm on 09 Jun 2009, ciderapples wrote:

    the rise or the BNP verses the rise of voter apathy

    I is wrong that th eBMP now have seats in the euro parliment, however, who is to blame?

    The voter turn out at these election was rubbish, the number of votes for the BNP were actually smaller than last time yet they still managed to get elected

    So many people are agast at the thought of being represented by this dispicable party. However, so many could not be bothered to place a tick in a box last thursday so who is to blame?

    we might all be fed up with corrupt and inept MP's but we have a duty to vote (fought for in WW2). How can a country so little respect for those who have fought and died for our right to vote. Those that did not vote shame on you, for it is you inaction and apathy that have bought us to this sad day when Fasicts are able to speak for us.

    Don't complain after the fact make your vote count

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  • 223. At 5:41pm on 09 Jun 2009, mrsmanchester wrote:

    Just three things to say after listening to the interview with the Unite against Fascism spokesperson.
    I believe that Adolf Hitler was democratically elected.Does Eddie Mair think he should not have been opposed?
    All it takes for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.

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  • 224. At 5:41pm on 09 Jun 2009, NanBee wrote:

    Nick Griffin is lucky to live in a democracy where free speech is valued. I think the people who threw the eggs should be loud and proud! I am ashamed to come from Wigan where the BNP got 11% of the vote and very glad that I now live in a tolerant and multicultural area of London.

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  • 225. At 5:42pm on 09 Jun 2009, JayJason wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 226. At 5:42pm on 09 Jun 2009, RxKaren wrote:

    Sid (14) I must be pre-menstrual then because I thought he wasn't tough enough on her!

    He was elected following the accepted process. I don't agree with his policies. I suspect that if he was allowed to speak and then challenged robustly on his views the some of those who voted BNP may think again. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist.

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  • 227. At 5:42pm on 09 Jun 2009, timidman wrote:

    Sadly the girl represented a significant proportion of the young "politically aware activists" today. By that I mean she could not respond to a direct question, had no method of rebutting the claims of the BNP or engaging with anything but tired and worn rhetoric. What she and the others did today was confirm my belief that "socialist" or "facist", "far left" or "far right" there is no difference between their selective choice of violence and desire to prevent free speech or an individuals right to disagree.

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  • 228. At 5:42pm on 09 Jun 2009, blogcook wrote:

    Is the Black Police Association racist?

    Would a White Police Association be racist?

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  • 229. At 5:42pm on 09 Jun 2009, regularbloke wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 230. At 5:42pm on 09 Jun 2009, expatrix wrote:

    Waste of perfectly good poultry products IMO.
    Should have smiled at him, that usually unnerves extremely bitter individuals

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  • 231. At 5:43pm on 09 Jun 2009, jonesc68 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 232. At 5:43pm on 09 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    She didn't make sense to me.

    Does she look fit?

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  • 233. At 5:43pm on 09 Jun 2009, vonPaulusVI wrote:

    Thanks for a sensible interview Eddie - you could have pointed out that the protesters' behaviour was 'fascist' in nature. We need to hear far more about what the BNP really stands for, and why so many people have voted for them. This can only happen through intelligent interviewing in the media.
    The BBC has sailed pretty close to the wind with its anti BNP bias recently - I hope this will be addressed in your reviews of ''how things have gone''
    Incidentally, is it not a criminal offence to demonstrate close to Parliament? (not that I agree with that particular law).
    Some clever comments on this blog - enjoyed reading them! Especially about the EU and D Day A great thing, feedom of speech - long may it continue.

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  • 234. At 5:43pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Hello everyone awaiting moderation. Don't worry they have to work there way through so as not allowing anyone to break the blog rules. It is in no way a reflection on your post or you as an individual. However, if you have broken the rules, you will be informed. Hang in there.

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  • 235. At 5:44pm on 09 Jun 2009, needsanewnickname wrote:

    Am I the first to bring up the argument that "I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

    Attributed to many, but mostly to Voltaire.

    Probably not, but there are so many new posters in pre-mod.

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  • 236. At 5:44pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    Rx 226, An optometrist? I thought you were a pharmacist.

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  • 237. At 5:44pm on 09 Jun 2009, David A-J wrote:

    It is sometimes said that you can judge the quality of a society by how well it cares for the children and elderly. Perhaps we can also judge the strength of a democracy by how/ if it permits extreme views.
    Surely the Fact of the BNP is an indictment on the Parliamentary system we have devised and now live in.
    If the system we have created disillusions so many that the BNP can exist, are we not all to blame.

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  • 238. At 5:44pm on 09 Jun 2009, kwakerbaz wrote:

    How dare that stupid woman or indeed any other unelected person presume to speak for me regarding the BNP or any other matter. I do not and never will agree with the opinions of the BNP but I will defend their right to have an opinion and I hope the belligerent bullies that assaulted Nick Griffin are prosecuted in the same way that I would be if I had attacked them due to a difference of opinion.

    The BNP have received better publicity than they could have hoped for.

    These people would restrict freedom of speech to only those who agree with them, now that is crass hypocrisy.

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  • 239. At 5:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    We get straight through?

    Well like Nick Griffin we've got a track record.

    And unlike her we've some semblance of intelligence and capable of our own thoughts?

    The R4 Blog is culturally diverse? They even let bunnies on!

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  • 240. At 5:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, HughMaloney wrote:

    Extreme though the BNP's policies may be, like the almost as extreme views of your interviewee, they are legal and never attract more than a small disaffected proportion of our diverse community of 60 million. Freedom of thought and legal expression are an integral part of that diversity. The shout down egg throwing tactics do nothing other than add weight to the BNP's claim of a liberal hegemony. It alienates people and shames our proud Trade Union heritage.

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  • 241. At 5:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, katieviews wrote:

    I will never support the BNP but the two MEPs have been democratically elected and represent almost a million people. They should be able to speak about their views and if the rest of the country doesn't like them then ignore them. We aren't a fascist country and I have no fear that we will be overrun by racists with extreme views. Throwing eggs at them only gives them publicity and is counter productive.
    Having said that the mainstream parties should look at why people vote BNP. Most people are alarmed by what appears to be unlimited immigration.

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  • 242. At 5:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, andystillathome wrote:

    Does the woman that Eddie was interviewing not understand irony?
    Denying political opposition the right of free speech is one of the corner stones of Fascism.
    Every interview with Nick Griffin that I have seen has been conducted in a fairly hostile manner, but he has answered in a polite and calm manner, and I have to say, has spoken sense on a lot of issues.
    Is this whats really troubling this lady; that if the general public get to hear what he says they might actually agree with him?

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  • 243. At 5:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, Katiefairweather wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 244. At 5:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, Daniel-Kx wrote:

    The most basic principle of democracy is that every citizen should count for equal weight. The BNP reject this. They say that some citizens of this country - because of the colour of their skin or their religious adherence or the country their parents or grandparents or great-grandparents came from - should count for less than others. They are a fundamentally, irredeemably anti-democratic party. To hear Nick Griffin trying to claim the protection of democracy is as absurd as it is obscene.

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  • 245. At 5:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    fJd 221, Think I'll send another 100 posts that will get accepted immediately. Still working on a beach thingy.

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  • 246. At 5:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, astromaksim wrote:

    In the 1930's the Fascists wanted the "freedom" to march into the East End jewish area. Hitler used democracy in the 30's to put his anti semetic views forward. The fascist in this country were forcefully stoped from marching into the east end. Hitler was not stopped.

    No rights for people who denie the rights of people based on their race.

    Better eggs today than gas chambers tomorrow !

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  • 247. At 5:46pm on 09 Jun 2009, RxKaren wrote:

    D McN (236) - not after 5pm if I can help it (or iPM demands it).

    Frances O (235) - that's what I was trying to remember!

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  • 248. At 5:46pm on 09 Jun 2009, dickysparks wrote:

    Eddie, I see that these anti-Fascists are still trying to shout out a duly elected politician, even on this blog. They are as equally in-articulate and misguided as the BNP, but we must hear all sides of the arguments, no matter how distasteful the content. To silence them, however it is done, just drives their organisation underground.

    I think this silly woman you were interview won no favour to their cause amongst the general populace. She came across as a close-minded bigot, no better than the dolts she opposes.

    As for you giving her a grilling, I thought your interview fair, but insistent, as she obviously had another agenda to use the programme to further her bigoted cause.

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  • 249. At 5:46pm on 09 Jun 2009, Glassprimitif wrote:

    Nick Griffin "it's a sad,sad day for democracy" What does he know about democracy? Happy to see the eggs fly but don't do it too often folks, or we might start seeing him as the underdog and feel sorry for him.

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  • 250. At 5:46pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    fJd, I think it is one poster using hundreds of names.

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  • 251. At 5:47pm on 09 Jun 2009, colinjordan wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 252. At 5:47pm on 09 Jun 2009, petermsgodfrey wrote:

    Did that lady who had organised the protest against Nick Griffen not see the irony of someone who says she is dedicated to protecting the interest of minority groups, citing that the vast majority of people are against the BNP ergo the views of the minority of people who do support them should be ignored and silenced. As said already - she is the real facist here!

    Peter, Goostrey
    PS. Shouldn't someone tell the protesters that if they are going on a peaceful protest, as she so ingenuously claimed, the picnic would be much more enjoyable if they hard-boiled their eggs!

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  • 253. At 5:47pm on 09 Jun 2009, XBobXX wrote:

    I'm amazed that 175 got through the 'moderation' with his song about stringing up racists on hooks.

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  • 254. At 5:48pm on 09 Jun 2009, Humberside1 wrote:

    You can't reason with unreasonable people.

    I think Nick Griffin appeals to those individuals who don't feel valued and who look for someone to blame for their plight.

    By throwing eggs and abuse at Nick Griffin, it will turn him into a working class martyr.

    The way to defeat the BNP is through reasonable dialogue by the main parties - and that includes reasonable policies such as tightening border controls and an increased visible effort to return individuals who have failed asylumn claims or been imprisoned for committing criminal offences.

    Racism is wrong but our Country is perceived as a soft touch by an increasing number of people.

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  • 255. At 5:48pm on 09 Jun 2009, XBobXX wrote:

    203 - How do new posters feel?

    Speaking purely for me - suspicious.

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  • 256. At 5:48pm on 09 Jun 2009, Pete wrote:

    I'm sorry, this woman has lost the argument before making it. She and her organisation are guilty of the same bully tactics she accusees the BNP of. In a democracy we allow elected persons to make their point, however much we dislike it. So who are the intolerant fascists now??

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  • 257. At 5:48pm on 09 Jun 2009, Reikosan wrote:

    Throwing eggs is very silly and just plays into the hands of the people these demonstrators object to.

    The real enemy of democracy os without doubt complacency.

    Demonstrated yesterday when only 35% of voters bothered to place their vote.

    The result - the extremists will always vote en masse - and they did!

    BNP in, UKIP in .... such parties would become totally insignificant if only just 50% of those eligible made the effort.

    If we continue to see such low turnouts at elections then the worst WILL CERTAINLY happen.

    THINK PEOPLE >>> THINK --- eggs and shoutining will not help.

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  • 258. At 5:49pm on 09 Jun 2009, annemarybooth wrote:

    The problem with shouting down and throwing eggs at the elected member of the european parliament for the BNP is that it seems to demonstrate contempt for the voters who voted for him, which itself further alienates those voters from the democratic process and gains sympathy and publicity for Nick Griffin. I write this as the daughter of immigrants who does not want fascism in this country, but who understands that the white working class voters who voted the BNP in, feel overlooked and irrrelevant to the political process. The only way to undermine the BNP is to subject them to intelligent debate and probing questions and to address the concerns of the white working class poor targeted by Nick Griffin et al. These voters must feel disrespected by the counterproductive demonstrattion today. It is missing the point to say that 'the majority of this country did not vote for the BNP' - that is obvious - what is disturbing is that some people did, and we must remember that they had a democratic right to do so, and use our energy to persuade them not to again. This persuasion must be based on respect, and disrespecting their elected representative will not win their hearts and minds.

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  • 259. At 5:49pm on 09 Jun 2009, routemaster99 wrote:

    The hard Left is at least as bad as the hard Right.

    Incidentally, racism is part of evolved human nature which hasn't changed for the last few hundred thousand years.

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  • 260. At 5:49pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    It will be interesting to look at this thread tomorrow to read all the modded posts.

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  • 261. At 5:49pm on 09 Jun 2009, dunchowping2 wrote:

    I was so dissapointed to hear this anti BNP spokes person on radio 4 that I joined the community to make a comment!

    She said several times that her group have a powerful argument that will easily conter those of the BNP so why don't they present them. Childish throwing of eggs is hardly a persuasive argument.....

    I was reminded of the way nazi thugs acted in the Weimar republic when they shouted down free speach (or worse).

    I was appalled that she seemed to be saying get out and vote but we should only count the vote if she approves of it. Doesn't sound like democracy to me.

    I am very much anti BNP but this behaviour and this pathetic spokesperson have quite possibly increased the standing of the BNP in the eyes of some.

    They should think long and hard about how to do things differently (inteligently)
    to get the result they want by getting the pepople of the UK to kick the BNP out at the next election.

    They should also be ashamed that they are probably hurting the cause they want to progress.

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  • 262. At 5:49pm on 09 Jun 2009, ianbuddha wrote:

    Difficult and painful, but if we want democracy, somehow we must be able to let these people speak their views , even if we hate/fear what they say.
    I would love to see Griffin with Paxman , and see/hear what he has to say. When is see Barak Obama being able to be so honest open and candid, facing much more hostile audiences, i wonder who will be more appealing to most open humans...Suppression of thoughts and views never really works, only leads to underground resentments. We nee to be able to really talk and see each other clearly, and then hope our humanity will come through.
    ian

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  • 263. At 5:49pm on 09 Jun 2009, Lady_Sue wrote:

    The egg-pelting may be a simple transfer of the anger and aggression that is felt towards the MPs.

    Perhaps those MPs who have been "caught out" should offer to line up outside the Houses of Parliament and supply duck eggs for the disgruntled?

    Unlikely...

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  • 264. At 5:50pm on 09 Jun 2009, gracelondon wrote:

    We have to remember that Hitler also built up his support through 'democratic elections' before he used that positition to abolish democracy. We have a responsibility to stop history repeating itself - shame on the BBC for treating Nazi Nick Griffin like a 'legitimate' politician and Well done to the unite against fascism protestors.

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  • 265. At 5:50pm on 09 Jun 2009, napolioni wrote:

    Many of the voters who voted for the BNP know exactly what the BNP stands for just as they know what the alternatives stand for, and given the choice, they chose the BNP.

    That's democracy for you.

    If you want to stop them, you have to persuade enough people to support you so that the BNP do not get voted in. If you cannot do that, then your view may well be the minority view. That may be difficult to accept.

    Speaking for myself, I do not want someone else deciding on my behalf who I will be allowed to listen to. I want to hear what they have to say, and decide for myself what I think. The people who rabble rouse to prevent others speaking - right or left - are anti democratic and fascists of the worst kind.

    I haven't seen on the news BNP members trying to shout down an opposition speaker, but you can be sure that the moment they do, I will argue just as strongly against their actions.










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  • 266. At 5:50pm on 09 Jun 2009, ardvaak wrote:

    13. At 5:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, Stephensobo wrote:
    I am sorry Eddie, but that came across as a grilling bordering on bullying. Why do those protesting against racists and fascist have to protest in an acceptable manner? These people are fascists. They have to be stopped because they are anti-democratic. Please don't go for soft target in this way.


    Reply: I think you need to understand what democracy is, Stephensobo. It is not about shouting down or preventing those who you disagree with - that is fascist behaviour. When it comes to the BNP, I think Simon Hughes (LibDem) puts it very well - I don't agree with what they say, but I would defend their right to say it.

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  • 267. At 5:50pm on 09 Jun 2009, grumpyLucyBlue wrote:

    Oh, terrific! Congratulations to the Union of Anti-Fascists (or whatever they're called...) they have achieved the impossible - making me have to agree with Nick Griffiths. Thanks a bunch!
    Having listened to your interview with their spokeswoman, I'd say they have some work to do. I'm glad she doesn't like Fascism, but she needs to bone up on Democracy, and do a little work on the principles of freedom of speech. As for her burning conviction - maybe she should have thought of all this DURING the election. It's horrid that the guy was elected, but he was - and he has a right to speak as an elected official. That's difference between our system and a Fascist one...

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  • 268. At 5:50pm on 09 Jun 2009, RaeBriggs wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 269. At 5:51pm on 09 Jun 2009, Reetville wrote:

    I wonder why people vote BNP.Could it be that the Labour party the people party has sold us all down the river.Take a look at the house of lords t.v.Labour has filled it full of ethnics and gays.As it was predicted.People vote BNP because Parliament is full of Jocks.How many English in the Scottish Parliament,or the welsh for that matter.Rescind the laws against catholics in government smacks of a jacobite revolution.No the average Joe might not think "there's no black in the union jack"but we do think its time that kids being tortured for witchcraft in Britain should stop and other medieval practices should stay in their home countries.Hey they got on a jet to get here didnt they

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  • 270. At 5:52pm on 09 Jun 2009, im-gordon wrote:

    re;Nick Griffin.
    Of all politicians, his views are the closest to mine, alas though, we have lost 'freedom of speech' unless our views are extreme left, the next thing will be Thought Police.

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  • 271. At 5:52pm on 09 Jun 2009, David wrote:

    Those so called peaceful protesters are at least as bad and unrepresentative as they claim the BNP to be. The girl you interviewed clearly has a zero understanding of the democracy she claims to wish to protect. Personally I have no common ground at all with Mr Griffin and his chums, but I see no value at all in limiting his opportunities to make his case. Only that they should be strictly in proportion to the level of his support. My guess is that the protesters were from the same basic stable as those who protested everything from pit closures, poll tax, fox hunting, G4 etc. etc

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  • 272. At 5:53pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    BB 239, Yes, even the eggs up above are two different colors.

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  • 273. At 5:54pm on 09 Jun 2009, Alisdr wrote:

    Amazed your presenter tried so hard to sandbag that brave anti-Fascist - great that she resisted so staunchly. Nonsense to suggest that Griffin has support that she does not have, when even in his own constituency more than 11 out of 12 voters voted AGAINST him!

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  • 274. At 5:54pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    DMNC (260)

    Theres one person 100 names and fifty pairs of hands.

    I didn't know so many people listened to PM.

    We must be right anoraks blogging all the time then. They only do it when they something worth saying.

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  • 275. At 5:54pm on 09 Jun 2009, nicecherryrose wrote:

    Eddie, the young lady on your programme, kept saying when questioned, "We do not want the likes of Nick Griffin and his party,etc, etc." Who is this "We," A section of the "British Community," made their choice clear. After all they are part of the british society. As a black person in a white society, we just have to work harder to prevent Racisim and all other forms of discrimination

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  • 276. At 5:54pm on 09 Jun 2009, b8dor1955 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 277. At 5:54pm on 09 Jun 2009, hypersaddened wrote:

    Playdreams writes:They didn't get a reasonable portion of the denocratic vote, they got a very small portion of a small cross-section of the population.

    That will refer to the Labor party in government, then.

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  • 278. At 5:55pm on 09 Jun 2009, el-nicko wrote:

    I was going to comment but mercsport has said it for me.

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  • 279. At 5:55pm on 09 Jun 2009, buncombe wrote:

    As much as I find the views of the BNP repugnant others should be allowed to hear the poison and be able to work things out for themsleves. The present actions will only create a war between the factions.

    The actions at the demonstration smack of the anti-paedophile demonstation that took place in Somerset last year when almost all the "demonstators" were brought in fully equipped by elements of the media for good footage/pictures

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  • 280. At 5:55pm on 09 Jun 2009, Nick_Gall wrote:

    DTraynier - post 68 - makes points that I heartily applaud.

    Especially the following which I have taken the liberty of quoting:-

    "Moreover, we are the best friend of the US, which punished the Palestinians for electing the 'wrong' government and is currently engaged in propaganda in Iraq.

    Let's not have the hypocrisy to portray ourselves as any friends of democracy."

    Absolutely.



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  • 281. At 5:55pm on 09 Jun 2009, Melaragni wrote:

    How ignorant that person was about how parliamentary representative democracy in the UK works. I hate what the BNP stands for, but they have more representative political legitimacy than her, and her organisation has. She certainly didn't represent me in making her demonstration to highlight the majority view of oppositon to the BNP. As with others, I'd like to see the BNP's position crucified by open debate.
    I'd also be as frightened of her outfit, and its 'dictatorship' of the majority, as I would be of the BNP nutters getting control. Neither outfit. has a scintilla of understanding of the concept of protecting minorities who disagree with them.

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  • 282. At 5:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, Wiznae wrote:

    I listened to the Lady on the Radio on the way home from work and I was disgusted that Radio 4 even gave her a platform - What a situation to be in unelected people who throw eggs get to say their bit on Radio and elected people (love them or hate, do not) I and lots of my decent hard working non socialist friends just happen to agree with quite a lot of what Nick Griffin says
    There are too many illegal people in this Country, our Welfare System is such an easy touch and we are ruled by the EU

    Get real Lady - your the minority

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  • 283. At 5:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, Derynda wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 284. At 5:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, grahambreezer wrote:

    I think it is a shame that people threw eggs at this man. Shame on them they would be seen for what they are if they stood out side a psychiatric hospital and did tje same to patients going in and out. Please see this man for what he is and thank god you are not him with his mind.

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  • 285. At 5:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, cardifftart wrote:

    she doesn't speak for me either. just because you don't like what someone says doesn't give you the right to shut them up - unless you live in a dictatorship - hang on that's what they say their against. beat them with coherent argument, not thuggery.
    Woolly thinking I'm afraid.

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  • 286. At 5:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, David_McNickle wrote:

    fJd 234, This has been a public service announcement.

    LS 263, Can a person be gruntled? According to Google, it is now an accepted word.

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  • 287. At 5:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, pirates_go_yarrr wrote:

    One wouldn't pelt our politicians with eggs any more than one would throw a pie at a businessman.

    However, clowns have pies thrown at them all the time, and it is funny. Similarly, fascists have eggs thrown at them, and that is also funny.

    Fascists, like clowns, are simply there to have things thrown at them. Surely.

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  • 288. At 5:57pm on 09 Jun 2009, Blogadog wrote:

    I think Eddie was very gentle with the Lady from Manchester. She didn't understand the irony, however.
    Everyone is entitled to free speech, even radicals!

    Keep up the good work, Eddie.

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  • 289. At 5:57pm on 09 Jun 2009, ravispeaks wrote:

    It is obvious that the spokeswoman for Unite Against Fascism does not regard the public as having any intelligence. Are we not capable of listening to Nick Griffin or any other racist and decide what we think of them?

    She should let this obnoxious elected politician say what he thinks and expose him in open argument not drown him out whenever he opens his mouth. We surely have better arguments than he does, so let's use them.

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  • 290. At 5:57pm on 09 Jun 2009, bogdolls wrote:

    Well done Eddie. I though your questioning was brilliant. You are fair.

    I think that that woman needs to taste her own medicine. Throw abuse at her because I and hundreds of other voters disagree with her!

    The simple answer; if I don't want to listen to any one or something on the TV is simply walk away. That woman didn't give others a chance to listen. She is an oppressor.

    I joined the BNP because of such smear as this. It encorages people to seek answers. She may have done something she does not want to do. Draw attention!

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  • 291. At 5:58pm on 09 Jun 2009, disgruntleddell wrote:

    It always annoys me when people like Sara(h) Cavanagh purports to speak and demonstrate on my behalf, in this case against Nick Griffin. She is certainly NOT acting on my behalf and I suspect that, like Nick Griffin, she represents a very small minority. I presume she is having her strings pulled by some obscure left wing institution.

    Whilst NOT a fan of Mr Griffin, he was elected and as such has every right to voice his views. Those, like Sara(h) Cavanagh have no right in denying him free speech.

    However she also has similar rights. Throwing eggs and shouting is not the best way to get one's views across - in this case I'm sure Nick Griffin will have walked away feeling quite satisfied with himself - especially when he heard her being grilled on Radio 4 a short while later - being made to look rather infantile and misguided...

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  • 292. At 5:58pm on 09 Jun 2009, TherealJamesBennett wrote:

    Are the moderators having tea??

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  • 293. At 5:58pm on 09 Jun 2009, BigBobNews wrote:

    Not impressed Eddie. Came across as an interogation of a frightened woman. Not good.
    Bob

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  • 294. At 5:58pm on 09 Jun 2009, Matt_4535 wrote:

    Breaking up meetings of people you disagree with using intimidation and violence; the Brown Shirts of the 20's and 30's would be proud of you...

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  • 295. At 5:58pm on 09 Jun 2009, spikyjwilliams wrote:

    Whether we like it or not, the BNP
    were democraticaly elected and therefore
    should have a voice.
    The throwing of eggs is no different to those that are deemed to be violent.
    The women protester interviewed
    claimed to be representing the views of the majority She was not - she was airing her own inarticulate and bigoted views.

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  • 296. At 5:58pm on 09 Jun 2009, bigal62 wrote:

    If we don't learn from history we repeat its mistakes. In Italy and Germany in the 20's people had Eddie's view that we should listen to the fascists just as we do other politicians. As soon as they got a toehold on power they set about ending normal democracy by sacking journalists etc. The BNP must not be given a platform to stir up hatred and divisiopns. They use simplistic arguments which will lead to more attacks on non Aryans and if given the chance will deport anyone with a dark skin. Eventually deportation will be replaced by camps and gasd. Is this what you want Eddie? Pass me the eggs.

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  • 297. At 5:59pm on 09 Jun 2009, AidanArthur wrote:

    I agrre with other contributors that the questioning of the representative of Unite against Fascism was unusually aggressive.She was making a perfectly valid point that the BNP are an unacceptable blot on our democracy.They would not allow freedom to those who oppose them had they the power to deny it; indeed they have had secret plans to restrict suffrage to those they approve of published from internal BNP policy documents. Indeed a review of the growth of Nazi power in Germany reveals that Hitler himself acknowledged that had they been denied the freedom to march and demonstrate openly in the years prior to their seizure of power they could not have come to power. Liberals need to learn from history that Fascists will not grant them the same freedom that some would grant them

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  • 298. At 5:59pm on 09 Jun 2009, flatbacking wrote:

    The only thing I can agree on with this group wannabe thought police dictators is that facism is wrong. Who do they think they are trying to enforce their self admitted left wing views upon the population of this nation. We agree that the BNP getting into the EU parliament is a sad and regrettable day for us all, but how much sadder that people who purport to despise everything that the BNP stands for then uses the same tactics that they are so against ( dont do as I do , do as I say). If it is ok to use abuse against a group the may have support as high as 10 percent of the population then are we all to stand by and nodded sagely when the BNP launch into an attack on another minority of approximately the same size. A dark day on thursday an even darker day today

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  • 299. At 5:59pm on 09 Jun 2009, jedlaker wrote:

    Fascism is the denial of a minority voice by the use of violence. I hold no brief for Nick Griffin or the BNP, but he has been elected in a democratic vote. It may not be a welcome result, but it seems to be a fair one. If the main parties were up to the mark, then the BNP wouldn't even have got a look in. Even those protesting against them concede that the BNP vote has not gone up, but the opposition vote, in this case Labour, has fallen. So where is the problem? Surely with the Labour party for having deserted the electorate, or vice versa. Either way, the BNP, like it or not, have a democratic right to air their views. If democracy is not good enough, and we have to resort to violence to make our voice heard, then we will soon find ourselves living in a Fascist state. Another question - how many of those throwing eggs at the BNP actually voted? And who did they vote for? It would be interesting to know.

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  • 300. At 6:00pm on 09 Jun 2009, ratsum wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 301. At 6:00pm on 09 Jun 2009, thinkaboutthis wrote:

    Hmm... In the rise to power, Hitler was indeed 'voted in'. At a gathering on 29 July 1921, Adolf Hitler was introduced as Führer of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, marking the first time this title was publicly used, then he rallied support during economic turmoil.

    So you see... though the lady in the interview claims to speak for the 'majority' - well they failed to make their vote count by NOT turning up.

    The BNP candidate and his party are merely taking advantage of the growing economic/ political/ discontent in this country and the paranoia about imigrants. Just like the Jews were perceived. We may see the next Hitler yet! - thanks to misguided/easily impressionable adults exploited by the BNP using the 'DEMOCRATIC process' to gain power. History repeats itself.

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  • 302. At 6:01pm on 09 Jun 2009, Christopher wrote:

    If people want to discredit the BNP and what they represent, they should give Nick Griffin every chance available to speak, in the full glare of the media. He is, after all, an elected politician now. He is a paid representative of his considerable constituency. And as the Telegraph have given us such occasion to discover, he is accountable to the electorate for every second of his time. Let's see just what he has to account for.

    Chris Miller
    Ipswich

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  • 303. At 6:02pm on 09 Jun 2009, Lord Elpus wrote:

    I neither condemn nor blame those people who voted for and elected the BNP. At least they exercised their democratic right. The BNP were elected by those people who failed to get up off their fat backsides and vote for other parties! Then come out with the pathetic excuse 'don't blame me I didn't vote' Well I do blame them if I had my way people who don't vote would be prosecuted!!!

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  • 304. At 6:02pm on 09 Jun 2009, Charlie wrote:

    wW @ 2

    Couldn't agree with you more.

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  • 305. At 6:03pm on 09 Jun 2009, Areliuslogic wrote:

    £8 million has been spent allowing the Tamil Tigers' unlimited, hostile occupation of Parliament Square that prevents peaceful tourist access. Yet the Government fails to ensure Freedom of Speech for a democratically elected UK MEP. One might be minded to consider that its is the Governments bias against the BNP electors that is racist?

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  • 306. At 6:03pm on 09 Jun 2009, otleyotley wrote:

    PM studio - Germany 1943
    Eddie Mair: Exactly how can you justify throwing an egg at Mr Hitler?
    Protester: Hitler is a racist who favours the genocide of all Jewish people
    Mair: I'm asking about your egg-throwing - not Mr Hitler's policies. Can you not just use force of argument?

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  • 307. At 6:03pm on 09 Jun 2009, einarneebiter wrote:

    Yes I do agree that it was a sad day to see the BNP win 2 seats, but the sad bit is that the main parties have ignored some of the issues covered by the BMP for so long that people have got desparate.

    Not everyone who voted for them are out and out racist, but they feel that the system as a whole has become so obsessed with multi-culturalism that they have made being "British" almost something to be ashamed of! We can no longer do anything without being told it will be offensive to one ethnic group or the other, however, everyone, INCLUDING, the indiginous british ethnic groups, should be able to celebrate their culture, customs and history without fear of recrimination or upsetting anyone else.

    We all must learn to accept eachother - racism does not work in just one direction.

    The young lady made reference to D-Day and fight against Hitler, but the sad truth is that I have spoken over the years to many second world war veterans who, in hind-sight, have commented that they now feel that they may have fought (and lost comrades) on the wrong side, as everything they have held dear is being eroded away and many have moved away from certain areas (i.e. London in particular) because of the anti-british racism that goes on against them by ethnic groups in this country.

    They have watched as politicians have allowed wave after wave of immigrants to come into, and in certain areas take over, the country they fought to keep free. They have seen the country, culture, history and customs that they held dear being pushed aside (instead of taking equal place with) by other ethnic group's cultures. Multi-culturalism means acceptance of other cultures and customs, but also means that other cultures and ethnic groups should accept ours too, in equal measure.

    With regards to the students pelting Nick Griffin today, what they should ask themselves is this? Is this an intelligent and democratic way of dealing with things? (freedom of speech still exists in this country I believe - even if it is not what you want to hear!), also, if there was a Muslim/Coloured/Chinese/any ethnic group leader of an all ethnic group organisation, speaking about issues that concerned them, would they have considered them racists? would they have pelted them with eggs to try and stop them speaking? NO because in those instances, it would have been considered a racists act on their part and they would have been arrested!

    This point alone only goes to strengthen the BNP case doesn't it!

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  • 308. At 6:04pm on 09 Jun 2009, GregLWEUroRealist wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 309. At 6:05pm on 09 Jun 2009, neilroger wrote:

    That dreadful woman from Unite Against Fascism a few moments ago has really angered & depressed me.

    Why do these people feel the need to say fascism & racism separately all the time & not just fascism?

    Perhaps at best she has a pecking order & Gypsys, Gays the Disabled, Jews etc are further down her list, or at worst she excludes these groups altogether that are equally hated by the far right.

    I hate the BNP but have begun to loathe The Anti Nazi League & Unite Against Fascism almost as much.

    To these muddled left wing groups fascists are ONLY anti race & not anti any other diverse groups, like those I listed above, even then their definition of race is limited to only black & muslim. This was stated again & again by this woman from Unite Against Fascism.

    I think its the feeling of being totally let down by Unite Against Fascism & similar groups, their short sightedness at best & there own bigotry at worst!

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  • 310. At 6:07pm on 09 Jun 2009, titusoates42 wrote:

    Wasn't it Voltaire who said I may deplore your views but I will fight to the death to ensure that they can be heard!
    This babbling woman is herself promoting censorship and if you're going to throw eggs you've already lost the argument.

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  • 311. At 6:07pm on 09 Jun 2009, stevep wrote:


    Its strange how large amounts of stupidity and evil make people prone to violence. Listening to the arrogant cretin being interviewed at the start of this evenings programme I felt a strong desire to hit her hard. Not sure whether she's as stupid as she claims or actually a mole working for the BNP but no doubt she has boosted its support noticeably.

    As a liberal and a democrat I have nothing but loathing for organisations such as the BNP. As a nationalist I also see them as both a threat and an insult to my countries. [Not a typo]. Therefore anything which helps them I find disastrous.

    Also I am revolted by her double standards. San the racism is there any noticeable difference between the BNP and her behaviour. She may not have thrown any eggs herself but refused repeated opportunities to distance herself and her organisation from deliberate violence to prevent freedom of speech. Leaving aside the boost given to the BNP this is in itself highly dangerous. After all, if one group of thugs can attack fascists because they dislike them what is to stop them or someone else attacking others they dislike for any reason.

    One thing I do agree with the BNP is that I would be glad to see undesirables removed from this country. Any chance we could send both scumbags - Nick Griffin and the 'anti-fascist' thug [I missed her name] out on the same boat? :)

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  • 312. At 6:10pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Sid (14)

    I'd like to agree with you. I did feel it was a little beneath Eddie. I thought he might have been doing it purposely to provoke a pre-ordained reaction? Especially when he said to her, "I'm sorry to interrupt" when in fact, it was purposely done and he wasn't sorry at all.

    Having said that, hes still our Eddie eh?

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  • 313. At 6:10pm on 09 Jun 2009, Jonathan Morse wrote:

    no green slime then?

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  • 314. At 6:11pm on 09 Jun 2009, terrible_terrier wrote:

    I am not a BNP supporter but have to accept that Nick Griffin is a democratically elected MEP. The woman Eddie interviewed in this evening's programme claimed to speak for the 'majority' of the population. Perhaps she should put herself forward for election and see if the 'majority' vote for her. She is obviously incapable of winning the intellectual argument and thus her organisation resorts to illegal actions.

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  • 315. At 6:12pm on 09 Jun 2009, jazznesme wrote:

    It's no wonder people have voted for the BNP. The media have been telling us for a month that we can vote for the BNP as a protest vote. Interestingly none of the other minority parties got much coverage, just the BNP!

    The Green Party actually got a larger share of the vote than the BNP, but have had virtually no coverage, either before or after the election.

    Representative democracies only work if the electorate are informed about the policies of the candidates standing. From where I'm sitting, the media are failing in their part of that process.

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  • 316. At 6:12pm on 09 Jun 2009, Gregorythemartyr wrote:

    I find the egging of Nick Griffin to be a complete travesty against democracy. The point of democracy is to represent the views of the people and it seems to me that there are no greater bigots and fascists than unite against fascism and ,no doubt, the extreme communists and satanists, Anti Fascist Action (Antifa) that were among them.

    In any case the BNP are ridiculous because they are too liberal. I am a longstanding member of the British People's Party and I have many friends from all over the world who are White. The White race will soon become endangered and I think it is important to let people who want their children to marry White people express their views before it is too late.

    I mix with all kinds of people from a variety of backgrounds such as Sudan, Ethiopia, Pakistan and Palestine among others but I will not give my heart to them. My real spirituality and love is given to White people because they are of my kind and I love them. I have total commitment to this ideal and I will never fall away.

    I will vote for the BNP because they are closest to my ideas and I have every right to do that. The BNP DO NOT believe in an all White Britain as these idiots you bring on keep saying. (But they should do!) They simply believe in a British culture and stopping immigration which is just reasonable as far as I'm concerned.

    If my vote is constantly ignored and this comes to a civil war then I will fight and die for my Race and Nation. I am quite sure of that. The rising tide of colour will not overcome my homeland - period.

    Fight the Commie Scum!

    Christos inviat! Adeverat Inviat!

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  • 317. At 6:13pm on 09 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    Would I gruntle the spokeswoman from the UAF?

    I wouldn't mind egging Ben Bradshaw, he that knows everything due to being a former employee of the BBC, but feel it wouldn't sit well with my volunteering in the public sector (100 hours since Feb).

    I wouldn't mind egging Derek Draper and Damian McBride either.

    Perhaps Bradshaw, Draper and McBride (Damian and Julie) should volunteer for a go in the stocks for a good cause?

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  • 318. At 6:14pm on 09 Jun 2009, disenfranchised97 wrote:

    Like several of the other bloggers I absolutely abhor the policies of the BNP and I am horrified that they have managed to get local councillors elected, let alone 2 members of the European Parliament. I totally support the action of the protestors in London today - indeed I shall be attending the protests against their Red white and blue rally which takes place close to where I live, in Derbyshire, later this year.
    There is a conflict between my democratic leanings exemplified by the words attributed to Voltaire - "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it?" and the caution towards allowing that freedom to such as the BNP and their ilk as expressed in the poem by Martin Niemöller -
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a communist.

    Then they locked up the social democrats,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    I did not protest;
    I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a Jew.

    When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out for me."
    That is the danger we face by not opposing the BNP, because they ARE a Nazi party - many of their members have openly expressed their admiration of Hitler.
    It ill befits Eddie Meir to conduct an interview with the representative of the London protestors in such a flippant way. I have long felt that the BBC news department was becoming dominated by what I shall call entrists of the superficial tendency. The rise of the right wing throughout Europe is of extreme concern and should be treated as such, not tagged with inane throw away comments about soufles.

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  • 319. At 6:15pm on 09 Jun 2009, Sid wrote:

    fjd @ 312 (!!!)

    I have several complaints really. One is that Eddie was much nicer, for example, to the mobile phone directory woman who is trading in our privacy than he was to the UAF rep.

    Another is that Eddie could (presumably) have had Griffin on and talked to him about his policies - after all, the reason he was elected was that people don't know what he stands for.

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  • 320. At 6:15pm on 09 Jun 2009, ratsum wrote:

    Seeing that my previous posting is "awaiting moderation"
    Mods can you at least let me say
    We have more to fear from the egg throwing zealots than the BNP.
    They are a legal political party duly elected in a democracy and should have the freedom to speak just as she had.


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  • 321. At 6:16pm on 09 Jun 2009, robertedmund wrote:

    The likes of Nick Griffin ought to be opposed and exposed with the intelligence of truth, not egg throwing. This kind of action will only turn him into a perverse martyr; he thrives on anger, sadly this kind of protest plays straight into his hands.
    Remember;you become what you hate.

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  • 322. At 6:16pm on 09 Jun 2009, margrete wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 323. At 6:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, alfiebengal wrote:

    Quote "We had D Day yesterday"..... I rest my case. I thought it was 65 years ago. That woman's ideas of how a democracy works smack of the very people she is thinks she is attacking. Well done you've just made the BNP very happy and, I'm sure, collected them quite a few more votes.

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  • 324. At 6:18pm on 09 Jun 2009, SteFlatman wrote:

    I don't support the BNP, but do support free speech.

    I'm guessing the fools who carried out this protest would have been outraged if the BNP had arranged for 'egg throwing' at the leaders of the TUC or The Muslim Council of England, both groups who have beliefs differing from those of the BNP.

    And for the record, the core aim of this protest was to prevent an elected member of the European Parliament from holding a conference on the basis that the BNP dod not represent the views of those who carried out the protest, but as Nick Griffin has been elected and the protesters have not, have they not 'for the first time' handed the BNP the moral highground.

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  • 325. At 6:19pm on 09 Jun 2009, John Bennett wrote:

    Even though I would describe myself as a "socialist" there is no doubt in my mind that today's incident has only served to make Griffin and the BNP look like victims. If I worked for the BNP I would make sure that people were there to throw eggs every time Griffin speaks publicly. Just as American foreign policy has been the best recruiting sergeant for Al Quaeda, this sort of action can only recruit more supporters to the BNP. By all means let Griffin and Co spout their offensive rhetoric, anyone with half a brain and some level of education should be able to make their arguments look pathetic.

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  • 326. At 6:20pm on 09 Jun 2009, Pistlx wrote:

    I have not read all the comments but I was pleased to find the vast majority were not critical of Eddie. The those who thought he was too aggressive, he was only trying to get a straight answer. I detest the BNP as much as anyone else, but for once I agreed with ick Griffin, it is a sad day for democracy when an unelected, incoherent, babbling nobody claims to represent the majority!! Does she not understand that like it or not Griffin has been duly elected by our democratic process and has a right to voice his opinions. By her own bullying tactics she has given him the much needed oxygen of publicity and brought her oganisation down to his level. The best thing we can all do is to ignore him until he goes away. And by the way she should get some lessons in articulation before subjecting herself to another interview by a consumate professional, she made a complete fool of herself.

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  • 327. At 6:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, dontmanipulateme wrote:

    The UAF spokesman thinks it's important to stand up to the BNP. I think it's important to stand up to him. The BNP is a legitimate party. These UAF bullies are denying the hundreds of thousands of people who voted BNP in this election their democratic right to hear their representative speak.
    The protestor who threw missiles at Mandelson was arrested. These people are on video, arrest them now.

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  • 328. At 6:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, magicaura7 wrote:

    Phew WHAT A REsponse to the B.N.P story
    the last one this big was the rally in Berlin

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  • 329. At 6:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, benelford wrote:

    Is the moderation being conducted by a 50-strong BBC committee, and are most of them on their tea break?

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  • 330. At 6:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    I didn't see anything wrong with that interview other than her wanting to deviate and adhere to a rehearsed script.

    I've heard Eddie handle interviews like that before.

    She was talking out of her hat. Eddie was supposed to give her an easy ride?

    She can hurl eggs but can't take a grilling from Eddie. She should be using that one as an invaluable life lesson, a bit like going on the Apprentice.

    I didn't see any rigour in her argument besides 'we don't like Griffin or the BNP'.

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  • 331. At 6:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, Cossackgirl wrote:

    I was sufficiently ahead of the game to have posted a description of my personal encounter with the level of police protection given to Nick Griffin when he entertained Le Pen. It is on yesterday's (June 8) PM Glass Box at (43) and it caused no interest or additional comments whatsoever so I shall not bother pasting it here. What a difference a few eggs and a not very deft spokesperson make!
    Unlike (109) I don't think a good uniterrupted rant from a strutting Fascist in front of the Houses of Parliament would have passed unnoticed. No, it would have served as a symbol to every Fascist out there and proof, if needed, that a good Democracy will defend to the death the rights of people who would (and did in other times and places) instantly suspend the said Democracy if they ever come to power.
    I am delighted that on this occasion he was insufficiently protected. My father fought in Stalingrad, my mother dug trenches outside Moscow with Fascist tanks 50 miles down the road. Millions died. What do the D Day veterans make of this shame?

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  • 332. At 6:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, an-archos wrote:

    Surely Adolf Hitler himself was - initially - democratically elected?

    He subsequently stated:

    "Only one thing could have stopped our movement. If our adversaries had understood its principles, and from the first day had smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement". (Hitler's words, not mine. No mention of a few eggs!)

    The failure of German workers to do this permitted the slaughter of millions and then it took a world war to get rid of Hitler's regime.

    'Nuff said?

    If anyone has any doubts about the links between this lot and hard-core Nazi ideology, just read 'Searchlight' magazine, or look at their website.

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  • 333. At 6:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, Chief Inspector Cluedo wrote:

    Mr Mair was perfectly polite but firm in his questioning.
    Those who thought he was aggressive obviously just didn't like the line of questioning.

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  • 334. At 6:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, jedlaker wrote:

    Why am I still being moderated when people after me get posted? I didn't say anything outrageous. I was quite measured, quite fair.
    Come on people, get me out there!

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  • 335. At 6:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, steelpulse wrote:

    A great day for democracy? A sad day for democracy?

    Two reported on the Internet at least - recent statements - sort of - from Mr Griffin. The former said when he achieved MEP-ship and the latter statement - well - when he a had "an oeuf" this afternoon.

    I disapprove with egg throwing etc - Plane Stupid please note - and prefer argument.

    But Eddie - I couldn't ignore the desperation in a certain voice - lol - I was also laughing at a film memory - said film made nearly fifty years ago.

    Finch's character says to a young lady he is out to impress(did I say Finch played an MoP?) "(Do I know) Greenwich? I had an egg thrown at me there once. Ruined a good suit".

    So this form of protest is well documented but I say again - I disapprove of wasting food and drink in protest.

    Talking of food and a well known cola - my missus just drew my attention to a Central London watering hole utilisied yesterday by a famous mother and two daughters?

    Good choice, I thought, Eddie.

    And "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" back soon too?

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  • 336. At 6:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, shakyclaptrap wrote:

    Nice one Eddie you seem to have had her on the ropes by the stress levels in her voice.

    you might want to try these questions if you get another chance.

    1. Define Fascism, - read 'Liberal fascism' by Jonah Goldberg, eye opener. the UAF are the natural inheritors of that which they abhor.

    2. Why at a peaceful demonstration were the demonstrators armed with eggs?

    3. Why did the Police stand and watch from 20 yards away, not PC to intervene, or orders from their political masters?

    You may not agree with Nick griffin, but I will listen with more interest next time he is on, as he is obviously rattling the self rightous guardians of our 'rights'

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  • 337. At 6:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, Charlie wrote:

    Lord E @ 303

    Spot-on..!

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  • 338. At 6:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Sid (319)

    Yes, I fully agree. I wonder how many would have complained, 'what are the BBC doing giving air time to Griffin'? had he been interviewed? I fully agree with your post.





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  • 339. At 6:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, PM4PMblog wrote:

    I may not agree with what you say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.
    But I hope it wouldn't have to go that far.
    And the sooner everybody accepts this the better for everybody.

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  • 340. At 6:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, londonSEeye wrote:

    Of course I despise all that the BNP stand for, but as he's been elected, whatever people think of that, he should have the right to speak.

    remember: While I may not agree with what you say, I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

    I used to work for City hall in London, and they have a candidate there who is BNP, and perhaps I'm in a minority, but I'd rather his views be publicly scrutinised so the people whoi voted for him can see what nonsense he talks and how his arguments don't stand up. maybe then they will realise the darker side of what he believes and how their attitude will only isolate and damage Britain and stop voting for them.

    the move to the right just seems like peoples failure recognise demagoguery and scaremongering.

    the one thing that bugs me about British elections - apart from the electoral system - is that there seems to be a lot of people who vote with their emotions and not on their understanding of their principles of what each party stands for. if you believe everything you read in the paper or even see on the news, and use that as a source of political guidance,
    then we will swing left and right with every revelation.

    Most of the rest of the world operates a PR system, we are a minority in the way we do politics. (Israel is a rubbish example as they only have one constituency) Sweden, Holland, New Zealand etc etc.

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  • 341. At 6:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, rainbowAlison wrote:

    The protesters should probably have maintained a dignified stance instead of throwing eggs - but, by God, if I'd been there I'd have thrown some too. Why did this country fight Hitler, for pity's sake? Why was my father conscripted, and his brother killed? The teaching of history today has sometimes been condemned as "Nazi studies", but it seems that some haven't studied enough.

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  • 342. At 6:26pm on 09 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    She should have got an easy ride because she's a well intentioned, hand wringing female?

    Can we leave the dumbing down to this government and their micromanaged schools and universities where they want to educate kiddies about twitter please?

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  • 343. At 6:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, Sallybugs wrote:

    Strange, I don't remember this amount of fuss when Prescott (egged & punched!), Heseltine, Mandelson, Phil Woolas, Nick Brown, Clare Short, Ann Widdecombe, countless others, have been egged or fooded...

    Could be that a lot of people are letting their inner-fascist show?

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  • 344. At 6:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, jamesjam1987 wrote:

    "after all, the reason he was elected was that people don't know what he stands for."

    Why is it so hard for people to realise that he was elected BECAUSE people know what he stands for?

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  • 345. At 6:31pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    I voted GREEN.

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  • 346. At 6:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, nikki noodle wrote:

    The plain questions NOT asked by Eddie, are:

    1. whether it would have been alright to 'egg' Mr Griffin *before* he was elected to Strasburg;

    and

    2. whether being elected in a 'free and fair' election ought to protect him from being 'egged' - so that he can use him platform to preach.

    From my point of view, the answers are first YES and then NO.

    nikki

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  • 347. At 6:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    I do hope those eggs were organic, omega 3 & 6. laid by hens allowed to roam freely conducive to there natural lifestyle.

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  • 348. At 6:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, Brat2002 wrote:

    Sid (319)

    Close, but not quite.

    The BNP is a lovely creamy chocolate covering of attractive working class and indigeneuos-friendly polices, framed in careful language, wrapped generously around a small hard core of dangerous supremacist nonsense.

    Unfortunately the only people who get to hear about these tempting policies in depth are the people who get doorstepped or leafleted in specific constituencies - people in overcrowded wards with very specific problems.

    They know the BNP is racist - but they think suporting them is no worse than supporting a bunch of self-serving capitalist and liberal elites who always do well no matter what the condition the economy is in.

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  • 349. At 6:36pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 350. At 6:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, brillianttaxidriver wrote:

    Well done Eddie, you took her apart as only you can and maybe Paxman.
    What she does not realise is that if the labour government were on the ball the proletariat would not have voted for old nick.

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  • 351. At 6:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, kayaydee wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 352. At 6:41pm on 09 Jun 2009, kayaydee wrote:

    Were the eggs white or brown or some other shade?

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  • 353. At 6:43pm on 09 Jun 2009, hazifantasi wrote:

    I cant think of a more English protest than throwing eggs. Having watched the video I thought these mainly young protestors were very brave actually..that is when I could spot them behind what looked like seven foot tall ten inch wide necked security man who clearly has much experience in the field of protecting Griffin..I wonder how they met..and apart from hitting someone on the back with a heavy trucheon shaped umbrella handle seemed composed..hmm egg thrown by 8 stone intellectual type versus wooden umbrella handle wealded by 20 stone muscle man..difficult one to call...not.

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  • 354. At 6:43pm on 09 Jun 2009, Eurokanga wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 355. At 6:43pm on 09 Jun 2009, James Baring wrote:

    We should certainly listen if we want to know what people think and why. If the issue is Griffin's 'track record', then we should be able to read about that on the Internet and know what it is. Immigration Control should be devoid of racial prejudice, but must have quotas I assume for logical reasons. The likelihood of fascism taking hold in the UK is next to nil. To avoid the embarrassment of having the BNP representing us in the EU parliament, people should take the EU more seriously. It is our guarantee against all sorts of trouble.

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  • 356. At 6:44pm on 09 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    What was the total food miles of those hurled eggs?

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  • 357. At 6:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 358. At 6:46pm on 09 Jun 2009, kayaydee wrote:

    Were the eggs as politically correct as the beeb or as preferred by said gryphon?

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  • 359. At 6:48pm on 09 Jun 2009, leafyautumnlady wrote:

    I listened with amazement at these so called 'peaceful protesters' who behaved like thugs, with scuffles and punches, besides the throwing of eggs, in order to force their views on the rest of us in this democratic country. No matter what Mr. Griffin had to say, he should surely be allowed to say it. I am not a BMP supporter, but surely have the right to hear him and make my own mind up as to whether I agree with his policies or not. What arrogance these protesters have to think that they alone know best.

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  • 360. At 6:48pm on 09 Jun 2009, looctac wrote:

    The behavior of todays shouting, egg throwing attackers has forced me to agree with Nick Griffin....."it was a sad day for British democracy".

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  • 361. At 6:52pm on 09 Jun 2009, victoriafw wrote:

    you don't win arguments against people you consider dangerous by throwing eggs at them. The self-proclaimed defender of our democratic rights didn't answer any of the questions put to her, but spouted a sort of fuzzy dogma, which she kept repeating. People like the BNP must be defeated by rational arguments and political will, not egg throwing and name calling.

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  • 362. At 6:52pm on 09 Jun 2009, kayaydee wrote:

    Why do some comments get moderated before some comments made earlier?

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  • 363. At 6:55pm on 09 Jun 2009, jonnie wrote:

    Brilliant interview!

    Eddie on top form -

    As regards this thread, of course the BNP deserve a platform.

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  • 364. At 6:55pm on 09 Jun 2009, younghal wrote:

    These issues are not new.

    I strongly recommend reading the Wikipedia articles on Oswald Moseley, the leader of the British Union of Fascists (1932), and on the Battle of Cable Street (1936).

    There are several related dilemmas rooted in history:

    1) How do we draw the line between Freedom of Speech and freedom to incite racism or hatred?

    2) Is it justifiable in a democracy to use force (including eggs) to prevent those with whom we disagree from speaking?

    3) Is it right for the police to use force to support the democratic right of those with whom we disagree to speak? (Battle of Cable Street)


    My own view is that the use of force is counter-productive; it is better to use argument and persuasion. It is better to listen to our opponents and find out why people seem to support them; we should then be able to undermine that support, either by argument or by dealing practically with the underlying issues. Preventing them from speaking leaves us ignorant and gives them ammunition.

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  • 365. At 6:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, Lora7777 wrote:

    I love radio 4 but was so angry with Eddies interviewing tactics that I almost turned it off. I hate racism and the thought of anyone disliking anyone purely based on the colour of their skin quite frankly fills me with horror! I would Never vote for the bnp but also agree with others that throwing eggs at someone is hardly going to further your cause. Whilst I am totally against everything the bnp stand for I would not try to get my point across with eggs (well maybe if they were chocolate) no really I would rather take the democratic path otherwise we stand the risk of becoming that which we are fighting against!

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  • 366. At 6:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, invisibleworldweary wrote:

    I listened to this interview and I thought Eddie Mair was marvellous. I do not support the BNP but I do support democracy.
    This interview should be played to every pupil above 14 in schools.
    It is at the heart of what it is to be a citizen and why it is vital we all exercise our right to vote.
    It was the best interview I have heard in a long time and Eddie's a master at the very polite thank you to the interviewee.
    Well done and keep it up

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  • 367. At 7:01pm on 09 Jun 2009, kayaydee wrote:

    Why throw eggs?
    Why not kisses?
    Might make them less comfortable!

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  • 368. At 7:02pm on 09 Jun 2009, jackieapp wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 369. At 7:07pm on 09 Jun 2009, HunkieDunkie wrote:

    I listened disconsolately in the car to your interview with your 'disturbed' (?) guest...

    The major political parties were able to encourage little more than 30% of eligible voters to exercise their democratic right last Thursday.

    Of those that did vote, little more than 20% voted for left wing parties in GB&NI.

    Your shrill guest was truly impertinent!

    Some 1Million people took valuable time to support BNP. Each casting a single vote each as valuable as mine.

    Your guest was a disgrace, and an affront to good order.

    Could I suggest that that BNP be given proportionate air-time in order that their concerns be raised and addressed by common courtesy.

    Left-wing policies created the backdrop to this unholy mess. The least their lunatic fringe can do now is sit down and shut up and listen to the debate.

    For debate there must now be!

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  • 370. At 7:07pm on 09 Jun 2009, Lady_Sue wrote:

    The Mods are going to be working overtime tonight, sifting through that lot.

    Brilliant that the interview sparked a tremendous response and such a lot of heated debate.

    Will be interested to see any follow up.

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  • 371. At 7:12pm on 09 Jun 2009, lordBeddGelert wrote:

    Iain Dale has an excellent take on the 'no platform' debate..

    http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/06/let-bnp-condemn-themselves.html

    Hopi Sen takes a different view.

    The kindest thing that can be said about Debbie Guthrie from the UAF [not the lady on the PM programme, this was someone talking to Jon Sopel] is that Unite should have a whip-round to give her some 'media training' as a matter of priority - she has acted as a fantastic recruiting sergeant for the BNP with her ranting and poorly argued debating.

    Nick Griffin and his chums will be having a drink at their expense down the pub tonight, I'm sorry to say.

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  • 372. At 7:13pm on 09 Jun 2009, boxconn wrote:

    ed i think your interview with the woman protesting about the BNP was spot on . she seems to be of the opinion that we should all think the way she does . i did not vote for the BNP but i feel they should have the same rights as anyone else that as been elected to state their views .what worries me is that she is acting in exactly the same way she criticises the BNP of acting (anti democratic) .

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  • 373. At 7:13pm on 09 Jun 2009, Otter wrote:

    The hysterical reaction from the anti-fascist egg pelters do more harm to our democracy than a couple of BNP MEPs.
    Their actions are similar to children who stick their fingers in their ears and sing at the top of their voices to drown out any opposing argument.

    It feels like a constant struggle to keep our democracy alive; on the one hand, voter apathy and shortsighted abstention leads directly to a far-right victory, on the other, we see a backlash from those who seek to crush the free speech of any people who do not share their views.
    Therefore, the anti-fascist reaction share the same totalitarian tendencies as their far-right opponents.

    I believe the BNP should be allowed to stand up and proclaim their views if they wish. Not because I personally agree with them, but because when fanatics air their views we can see them for what they are.

    It is the fanatics that I cannot hear that I fear the most.

    Best wishes

    Otter

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  • 374. At 7:13pm on 09 Jun 2009, frankinsense wrote:

    There was an interesting study published last year that compared the IQs of children aged 5-10 years old with their subsequent voting preferences at the last general election, when they averaged age 34, from a sample of over 6000. Interestingly, of those that voted, Green and Lib Dem voters had the highest childhood IQ's (average 108.3 and 108.2 respectively) and those who voted UKIP or BNP had the lowest (101.2 and 97.4 respectively). Those who didn't vote averaged 99.7. I don't suppose many are surprised at the BNP score!

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  • 375. At 7:13pm on 09 Jun 2009, londonSEeye wrote:

    In respect of post 130, Its very dangerous to start talking about fascism as either left or right wing. its very common for a person of one political pursuasion to align fascism with the views of their political opposite, but left or right have less to do with it and there are polarised views from various political writers.

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  • 376. At 7:14pm on 09 Jun 2009, Pir8pete wrote:

    Ok her methods weren't the most democratic but facing Nick Griffins 'private security' or whatever he calls them using eggs was pretty brave as I wonder what would have happened to the protestors if the media hadn't been there.

    Lets be honest we all know what the man stands for, maybe this is the kick up the bum the populace needs to remind them to vote.

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  • 377. At 7:16pm on 09 Jun 2009, lordBeddGelert wrote:

    By the way, as if it needed saying, I though Eddie was absolutely fantastic tonight - these people who are using the completely wrong, lazy and ineffective tactics need to be 'Paxmanned' just as much as the politicians.

    Despite my earlier post, I'd still be quite tempted to throw eggs at that dippy woman with the mobile phone database.

    It would be just as 'counter-productive' but dam, it would feel good...

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  • 378. At 7:16pm on 09 Jun 2009, SteFlatman wrote:

    In response to Nikki Noodle (346)

    1. Would it have been alright to 'egg' Mr Griffin *before* he was elected to Strasburg..... absolutely not, unless it's ok to carry out the same actions towards anyone who's politics and beliefs you disagree with.

    2. Should being elected in a 'free and fair' election protect him from being 'egged' - so that he can use him platform to preach..... yes, because if it's not his right as a freely and fairly elected MP to preach, then all MP's should be banned.

    I'm not a BNP supporter, far from it..... but what we are witnessing is an attempt to stifle the opinions of people because we simply do not like what tey have to say.....

    So I'll put my two peneth in and suggest we have all trade unions banned form making stupid comments about how they 'won't allow' employers to cut jobs, and then fail miserably to do anything constructive to prevent job losses.

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  • 379. At 7:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, Judie wrote:

    We need to let the BNP speak in a public forum. They are safer in the open than pushed underground. Shouting them down doesn't shut them up, it just makes them feel aggrieved and important. Let them wilt in the light of day, not fester and grow in the dark.

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  • 380. At 7:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, gunner_42 wrote:

    haha I agree with 377 :)

    Will everyone please stop arguing that the BNP are being denied freedom of speech - they are in no way censored and can broadcast and distribute freely. The protesters, as I have already said, were showing their contempt for a man whose views have already been widely publicised - they did not prevent the publication of his views, they demonstrated their disgust, as is their right under the principle of freedom of speech.

    regarding the obvious Voltaire quotation:
    I would fight to the death for the BNP's right to speak, but I would then turn around and egg the Nazi fools once their views were expressed.

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  • 381. At 7:30pm on 09 Jun 2009, legendaryscsmith wrote:

    I do not agree with Nick Griffin being egged , the people who did this are not achieving anything and far from silencing Nick Griffin they are generating more publicity for him and thereby aiding him

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  • 382. At 7:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, bigal62 wrote:

    As my comment [296]seems so extreme it has taken 2 hours to be 'moderated' I can say blog 306 makes the point I wanted to [only better!] We must learn from the past. Fascists are not ordinary politicians they are thugs who pretend to be respectable until they can dispense with anything like a free press and get on with the unfinished business of Hitler and Mussolini. Wake up Eddie and the rest of you reasonable but naive people.

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  • 383. At 7:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, gunner_42 wrote:

    also 316 you appear to be a bit of a muppet (unless that was some fantastic irony which I missed - if so I am embarrassed). "fight the commie scum"? please tell me where our serious left wing parties are so I can vote for them in future.

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  • 384. At 7:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    Nice one funnyJoedunn! :)

    It's the fault of the BNP that MPs seem to be just representing themselves or whatever their party whips say that day?

    It's the BNP's fault that the other parties aren't offering something deemed worth voting for?

    Given the taxpayer pays for 3,000 plus PR, marketing and journos to create govt. content that's reprinted verbatim in our press as 'news' perhaps any analogies with the Nazis are unwise?

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  • 385. At 7:37pm on 09 Jun 2009, supasilentwitness wrote:

    the UAF movememt is funded by the trade unions, the very trade unions that sent recruiting delegations to Poland to recruit workers into their ranks. The trade unions fund labour and also funded the No 2 EU yes to democracy party.
    All sounds a bit of a conspiracy to me.
    I am very interested to see an in depth interview with Nick Griffin and a frank discussion of the parties current policies.
    If they are truly offensive then the public will decide. I will not have my opinion shaped by a bunch of protesters who are no better than fascists themselves. I am also in a trade union, and whilst they are spending time and effort to defeat a democratically elected party, perhaps there should have been more concentration a little more on Leyland Daf and the Cheltenham and Gloucester. Whilst on the subject, I would imaging a large proportion of the BNP voters were amongst the TU ranks so perhaps they should start listening to them.
    Talking about history is frankly a diversionary tactic as the TUs were marching for British jobs in the 70s and all 3 main parties have changed their policies over the years, non more so than labour, but the same old BNP stigmtisms keep being rolled out time and again. This is not democracy, it is a dictatorship.

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  • 386. At 7:42pm on 09 Jun 2009, Wyrdtimes wrote:

    I am shocked by the amount of people who think the behaviour of UAF is acceptable.

    The BNPs policies are dire -and reasoned debate can tear it apart. Let them speak.

    Today Unite against fascism look more like fascists than the BNP.

    What happened to freedom of speech?

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  • 387. At 7:42pm on 09 Jun 2009, kayaydee wrote:

    Hope the eggs weren't fresh; why waste a good egg on a bad egg?

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  • 388. At 7:43pm on 09 Jun 2009, Mario wrote:

    The woman interviewed was a poor spokesperson for anti-BNP feeling, no question but she denied carrying eggs to the protest and seemed uncomprehending at the suggestion that she was responsible for anything other than a peaceful, vocal protest. She may have been genuine.

    How did the egg-throwers know that Griffin would be speaking to camera at that exact time and at that exact location? How did they come so well prepared? With printed placards...?

    Now Griffin is now making entirely unsubstantiated (and unchallenged) claims that the protest was orchestrated by '...the Labour Party... and Cameron ...using tax payers' money'! What rot!

    Surely, this is Griffin's first step towards '...burning the Reichstag'. Plan a protest against oneself to gain maximum publicity and discredit the opposition.

    The BNP's views are repugnant and their actions unscrupulous.

    Beware!

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  • 389. At 7:48pm on 09 Jun 2009, kayaydee wrote:

    The BNP have their own form of political correctness, its called fascism!

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  • 390. At 7:54pm on 09 Jun 2009, Gillianian wrote:

    The anti-BNP campaigners would have done better to have staged a peaceful protest in the consistuency which enabled Griffin to be elected - either through deliberate choice or through failure to go out and vote.
    As it was, the protesters' actions merely served to give Griffin more publicity and public support. They have set themselves up as hysterical stooges.

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  • 391. At 7:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, AidanArthur wrote:

    Otter. The people who are "putting their fingers in their ears" (and indeed over their eyes) and those who put positions such as yours. Times of social and economic crises are exploited by groups such as the BNP to gain power by pointing the finger of blame at vunerable minorities. The Nazi's did precisely that at a time when Germany had a particularly vunerable democracy (The Weimar Republic). When they took power on a minority vote because of a division betwen the democratic parties , they quickly move to take power on the streets using their thugs of the SA and SS ,and by banning the opposition parties, and then by the use of dispossesion of property and jobs,concentration camps and mass murder. Fair minded people such as yourself were cowed into silence as their neighbours were taken from their homes for being mentally challenged ,or Gay,or being outspoken in opposition to the NSDAP.Then the same fair-minded people joined the NSDAP in large numbers, and recruited their children into the Hitler Youth or The League of Girls in order avoid persecution themselves. Of course after the war and the exposure of the crimes of the previous 12 years denial of responsibility was the order of the day. For goodness sake grow up, do some research on the nature , the history , the not publicly stated intentions of the BNP and join in on the campaign to expose them before it is too late

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  • 392. At 7:59pm on 09 Jun 2009, ingeniousLancelot wrote:

    Typical of protesters who cannot win their argument by reasoned debate, they throw eggs. Can someone tell me how an egg can be thrown in a peaceful way. I thought only fascists used violence and projectiles on their protests.

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  • 393. At 8:00pm on 09 Jun 2009, Petermun wrote:

    The BNP got in because two-thirds of the electorate did not use their vote. We do not deserve our wonderful ancestors, many of whom sacrificed much to achieve democracy. Get off your backsides idiots or the National Front/BNP will flourish even more.

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  • 394. At 8:01pm on 09 Jun 2009, Snewssnooze wrote:

    I listened to the 5pm. bulletin with glee. Thank you egg throwers. The sight of a BNP MP standing on Smiths Lawn with eggs flying was cheering. I know the arguments about democracy, civil rights etc but the eggs just hit the spot. Thought Eddie was a bit pompous in the interview though.

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  • 395. At 8:03pm on 09 Jun 2009, dougalxxxx wrote:

    like many I was dismayed to see two bnp MEPs elected but this does not give the right for the so called unite against fascists to use the same bully boy tactics that have been attributed, rightly or wrongly to the people they are criticising. People like Donna guthrie are just as sickening as the Nick Griffins of this world by denying the right of free speech even to persons as laughable as Nick Griffin. She shows a staggering arrogance in stating what she believes is right and what is wrong. As she demontrates many of the fascist ethos herself should she not be gagging herself?
    better by far to find out who voted BNP and why with a view to assauge their worries and return them to a more moderate party. Also better to persaude more people to vote. Your BBC coomentator on PM said that had a further 20,000 people voted in the Northwest griffin would not have been elected.
    Then hopefully we can be rid of both fascist griffin and fascist guthrie and their crews

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  • 396. At 8:04pm on 09 Jun 2009, marfea wrote:

    So the half-witted protester thinks that it is reasonable to protest in a thoughtless egg-slinging manner just because Nick Griffin doesn't speak for majority?

    Last time I looked, Labour didn't represent a majority, but I don't see people thinking they have to sling eggs at our elected Westminster government!

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  • 397. At 8:06pm on 09 Jun 2009, stevep wrote:

    an-archos post 332

    Your 1st sentence seems to be an argument against democracy? Do you think that Hitler didnt try to stop his opponents speaking?

    The quote from Hitler presumes that he was telling the true and accurate. From what I have read about him he probably believed that, being a supporter of violence as the solution to all problems himself. However the violent suppression of a group or opinion when there are alternative routes is not very wise.

    You also show the weakness of your logic by the bias you show yourself. It wasnt the job of the German workers to stop him but all responsible Germans. Dividing themselves into workers and non-workers was one of the reasons moderate forces failed to stop the bigots. Germany having PR gave them a last 8-9 months to unite against the threat that fascism posed as with a British 1st past the post system he would have had a majority, or very near it, from the autumn of 32. However it was the other internal divisions in the society that meant they failed to do this.

    I have no doubt that the BNP leadership are dangerous scum. However when their opponents by stupidity and bigotry boost the force they claim to oppose then they become dangerous themselves, even if they werent anti-democratic themselves.

    .

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  • 398. At 8:10pm on 09 Jun 2009, Thruns_Guinneabottle wrote:

    A bit presumptious.

    There are a number of blogs from people assuming that greater voter turnout would have reduced the proportion of votes going to the BNP. How do they know that the non-voters would not actually boost the BNP total, if the were interested enough to vote at all? The world does not consist solely of radio four listeners.

    Certainly, all the non-voters with whom I have spoken on the subject
    of immigration, would like it stopped immediately and even reversed. (It is admittedly a small sample). But the implication is clear.

    You knee-jerk left wingers should be careful what you wish for.


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  • 399. At 8:15pm on 09 Jun 2009, torporchallenger wrote:

    The BNP are Nazis, Hitler-lovers, fascists. At what point in the 1930s should Hitler have been denied a platform? None whatsoever according to the 'free speech' advocates. Fascists differ from other parties not because they are rascist but because they intend to enforce their vile views by means of violence. Who can claim not to know this? Just study a little history. Would you condemn a group who forced Hitler off his platform in the 1920s? Would you? If so, I think we know what you are. Do you?

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  • 400. At 8:19pm on 09 Jun 2009, Lady_Sue wrote:

    400 posts since the interview.

    Is this a record?

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  • 401. At 8:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, GregLWEUroRealist wrote:

    Hi,

    Mr. Griffin speaks for a tiny percentage of the enfranchised voters of these United Kingdoms - those who by due process in the democratic process elected him - you may believe that misguided or ill informed but the oxygen of publicity will soon corrode the support as people realise just what around 2% of our peoples voted for.

    Nothing will do greater harm to the BNP than having elected representatives and the duties that makes them liable for - duties which make them open to many more laws against discrimination than they were exposed to as a private self funded organisation - now they must account for public money and public duties.

    Ms. Kavanagh represents NO ONE in the democratic process, she has not a vote to support her - merely the baying claque that has done such damage to democracy in its strident abuse of the freedoms given to her BY democracy.

    As yet we have not addopted the Continental policy of water cannons nor openly armed police shooting protesters but considering Mr. Brown's corrupt Political Police Enforcers were happy to beat up peaceful protesters at The G20 Summit, have a shoot to kill policy of murdering suspects (viz. Menenez & 30 others) and arrest women for reading out a list of victims of Government policy of war crimes in Iraq - where were the police today?

    Where were the Police, who should have upheld democracy and arrested the chanting violent scum with Ms. Kavanagh. People like the extremist Searchlight who work to undermine democracy by lies and intimidation.

    The message The BNP revolts me but so also do those who seek to destroy democracy like The Anti Fascist league, Searchlight & the Ms. Kavanaghs - the BNP trash are no risk but they deffinitely are as it is they who seek to dictate policy and destroy democracy.

    Just as EUkip will cheat and lie to silence their critics and those who seek probity and transparency in politics which threatens their route to the troughs on the gravy train.

    Regards,
    Greg L-W.

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  • 402. At 8:22pm on 09 Jun 2009, Serangoon wrote:

    Thank you PM for giving every opportunity for your female 'anti fascist' guest to answer a straight question with an equally straight answer. The fact that she couldn't do it suggests to me that her intolerant and arrogant attitude, and by association that of all who approve of her stance, only goes to prove who the real fascists are.

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  • 403. At 8:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, MizzBarbaraC wrote:

    Normally, I'm a fan of Eddie Mair, but not today. Some problems with his approach to this issue:
    First: His obsession with the fact that the BNP have been 'demoratically elected'. Yes - just like Hitler and the National Socialists in 1930s Germany: An excellent reminder that evil thrives on the failure of good people to oppose it.
    Second: His obsession with eggs. Nobody died or was carted to intensive care. Stop whining on abut this and focus on the real issue: The danger of a fascist but highly populist party gradually taking control through the ballot box (just like in 1930s Germany).
    Third: His decision to construct a nice little confrontational interview (almost certainly at odds with his own views of the BNP) simply because it makes good radio, and in the process, almost certainly generating some sympathy for the BNP. A dangerous and cynical approach to broadcasting.
    Shame on you, Eddie. Find some of the BAD guys to pit yourself against next time.

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  • 404. At 8:25pm on 09 Jun 2009, stevep wrote:

    Disenfranchised post 318.

    That poem really goes to the core of the problem, although he was lying of course as he did speak out against the Nazis and ended up in a concentration camp as a result I believed. Never could remember who said it so thanks.

    However I think your missing the point. There is a strong argument for violence against a brutal regime when there is no alternative, because they control the system. Such actions when there is a working democracy, [albeit flawed by a faulty voting system, apathetic population and a corrupt political class who rely heavily on diverting and dividing the voters from the real questions].is both morally wrong and highly dangerous.

    Just remember that the poem warns against those who seek to divide and rule, spreading hatred and hostility and that relates to the self-proclaimed anti-fascists as much as the BNP. Since hearing PM I have seen an even more obnoxious character on another TV news programme. He was openly contemptuous of the rule of law, morality or anything else that prevented him doing anything he wanted to. Quite willing to support violence against anyone who dared to have a different view to himself.

    As I said in my 1st post on this subject, apart from any question of the morality of their actions the bigots responsible for the attack this afternoon are giving the BNP the best propaganda they could wish for.

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  • 405. At 8:29pm on 09 Jun 2009, AidanArthur wrote:

    The fact that there have been a very large number of posts on this issue is an indication of its importance and seriousness. It is merely an attempt to trivialise the matter by making that number an issue in itself. Comment 400 is presumably a rep. of the brain dead party

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  • 406. At 8:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, hirschhs wrote:

    @316
    your warped views of White supremacy are a danger to all peoples or they would be if they weren't so amusing. A lack of skin pigment causes you to be white rather than black - extraordinary that anyone can base their belief system on that. At least Hitler purported to use a Jewish conspiracy as his reason for extermination. As a Jew, I also find it amusing that you salute Christ in your signature, he was after all a good Jewish boy, nothing more and certainly not white!
    However, the less radical BNP are a legal organisation and therefore must be allowed the same stage as any other. We should listen in silence and make our own minds up. In my experience racists always dig their own graves if you let them wield shovels.

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  • 407. At 8:38pm on 09 Jun 2009, RAC-ONE wrote:

    It seems that my previous posting has fallen into another parallel universe perhaps.. Odd, since it was very moderate in tone. Now, though I will say that I was appalled at the manner and tone of the way both James Naughtie and John Humphreys evidenced their personal distaste for the BNP when they interviewed Griffin. Contrast that to the probing but polite approach of Eddie Mair with the UAF lady. I do think that she was given a great deal of free airtime to air her campaign and it surely qualified as a party political speech. They are not so generous to an elected Member of the European parliament though.

    I do not have any backing for the BNP but neither do I for this unelected group who quite inappropriately was stating what the "majority of the population want" She is not qualified to say.

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  • 408. At 8:43pm on 09 Jun 2009, UKPahana wrote:

    I voted for the BNP.
    There it is you can finish reading here and start throwing the eggs.
    The reason for the change in heart from my normal voting pattern of the last twenty plus years is not that I share any of their beliefs or support their policy but am deeply disapointed in the current state of British politics.
    Total voter apathy and politicians that no longer try to represent the electorate but dictate policy from their various coloured bunkers whilst robbing me of my contributions to society have aroused the anarchist in me.
    I voted for the BNP to stir things up in fortress Westminster. It's time for politics to get back to basics and for politicians to serve the population.
    I may never vote BNP again for the rest of my life but it is still my right to do so if I so decide, no matter what anybody elses opinion is.
    I can gaurantee that I am not alone in my means of protest and unless there is change from the major parties between now and May next year, then it may be the case that I just have to protest again. From the current reactions of the press and media many more people will realise the power of voter protest.
    Be warned Westminster.

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  • 409. At 8:44pm on 09 Jun 2009, magicaura7 wrote:

    To sum it up Nick, sideline the racist bit and conentrate on the rest of the policies and I think you're on to a winner.

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  • 410. At 8:49pm on 09 Jun 2009, Petermun wrote:

    I agree with many who disapprove of Mr Mair's approach during this interview. Yes she was a rubbish interviewee, but the interviewer's increasing tendency to promote the joke rather than the content is becoming more and more irritating. Perhaps it is time for a secondment to Private Eye to get it out of your system Mr Mair.

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  • 411. At 8:50pm on 09 Jun 2009, plaishbadger wrote:

    I SEEM TO REMEMBER ONE WINSTON CHURCHILL SAYING (NOT NECESSARILY THE RIGHT WORDING) THAT HE DID NOT AGREE WITH WHAT THE LEARNED GENTLEMAN HAD SAID BUT WOULD DEFEND TO THE DEATH HIS RIGHT TO SAY IT, I SUGGEST THAT THE YOUNG LADY WHO REMINED US TODAY ABOUT CELEBRATING D DAY, SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT THE STRENGTH OF A DEMOCRACY IS JUST THAT, WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPRESS OUR OPINION, HER ATTITUDE AND THOSE OF HER FRIENDS HAVE NO PLACE IN A DEMOCRACY.
    LONG LIVE THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH !

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  • 412. At 8:53pm on 09 Jun 2009, baranov wrote:

    and another thing: why is the BNP always referred to as 'far right' or 'extreme right wing', when they are (as were the Nazis) socialists/'left wing'?

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  • 413. At 8:54pm on 09 Jun 2009, 2ndcornets wrote:

    Well done Eddie. I will vote BNP next election. The feeble defence against the antics of the "anti-fascists" finally convinced me that genuine working British people have a good case for electing people who will look after their interests as opposed to those of illegal immigrants, religious zealots, the politically correct, and those too lazy to work. The latter presumably includes some at least of the troublemakers on view in the BBC news film. I hope the DSS have film of that as they had clearly made themselves unavailable for work for the day and should have their unemployment benefit adjusted accordingly. And where were the police in all this ?. Looks as though the BNP need to provide more of their own protection if the police won't, or cannnot, do the job.

    2ndcornets.

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  • 414. At 8:56pm on 09 Jun 2009, DaveWardSP7 wrote:

    Ok, its all very well to say that they shouldn't have thrown eggs, but they were only eggs, with lots of shouting, don't the majority of us really agree that the BNP are a huge step backwards really? The 'angry mob' represented what I (and my wife) feel about the people in this party and I thank them for demonstrating this point so well. Their party represents a horrifying aspect of our society that provokes an angry reaction, whereas G. Brown et al just make us roll our eyes. They have pulled the wool over their voters eyes. How can the country ( And Radio 4 especially- you are far too intelligent and most of you live in the enjoyably -diverse culture of London) take this party seriously?
    In short Eddie, why the eggs? because these people make us very cross, regards from Dorset.

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  • 415. At 8:58pm on 09 Jun 2009, AidanArthur wrote:

    hirschhs. your comments on the racist idiot are spot on. As for shovels I would have thought it unwise to put shovels in the hands of racists or fascists as history tends to show that they force their victims to dig their own graves with them

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  • 416. At 8:59pm on 09 Jun 2009, torporchallenger wrote:

    One of the things about democratic patriots is that they condemn all political violence (throwing eggs at a fascist) but uncritically support all of Britain's wars. So it's OK to murder thousands of civilians (including the firebombing of Dresden, allegedly in an anti-Nazi struggle) but disgaceful to throw an egg at Hitler in the 1920s. Weird.

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  • 417. At 9:01pm on 09 Jun 2009, legendroybar wrote:

    When I first heard about this story I actually assumed that the BNP had deliberately set this up.
    The woman interviewed must be pretty darn stupid as all she has done is give the BNP maximum publicity and, possibly, a bit of sympathy.
    She might not like this, and I am definately not a fan or supporter of the BNP, but we live in a democracy and, as such, Nick Griffin and other like-minded people are allowed to have their opinions and are allowed to stand for election on those opinions.
    To deny them this borders on fascism itself.

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  • 418. At 9:02pm on 09 Jun 2009, Brat2002 wrote:

    frankinsense (374)

    Well done - let's all despise people with lower IQs than ourselves.

    You must be very clever.

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  • 419. At 9:04pm on 09 Jun 2009, louis2605 wrote:

    I did not like this protest action today,what upset me apart from NG was the fact that no police acted to stop the protesters from attacking NG.Someone could have been hurt or killed, on both sides.
    Last time I saw a protest the protesters had a police escort, what happend here?
    This could have turned nasty, is this what we want to see having our tea with our children, a lynch mob and no law and order. If you want to fight NG USE THE VOTE NOT THE EGG.

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  • 420. At 9:08pm on 09 Jun 2009, nikki noodle wrote:

    To all those posters quoting "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" -

    - the right to say whatever you like does not apply in every circumstance. Otherwise our legistation against rabble-rousing and other hate-speak would be superfluous.

    What one may say in our democracy, and what one may not, is still a matter for debate; but until it is decided I will continue to lob eggs at those who speak hatred.

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  • 421. At 9:11pm on 09 Jun 2009, torporchallenger wrote:

    'This could have turned nasty, is this what we want to see having our tea with our children, a lynch mob and no law and order.' Priceless.

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  • 422. At 9:12pm on 09 Jun 2009, NelRow23 wrote:

    It is encouraging to note that a majority of posts on here were embarrassed by that inept anti fascist spokeswoman.

    Lots of terms can get chucked around in these discussions without alot of care. A 'Fascist' is surely one who will not tolerate dissent. A fascine is French for a bundle of sticks, unbreakable when bound together; politically this demands suppression of dissent. We must all be bound together politically spouting only the permitted view. This 'fascist' attitude was certainly that held by the egg throwers' spokeswoman.

    'Left wing' and 'right wing' are terms likewise subject to abuse. There have been absolute monarchies, usually considered right wing, and one party communist states, labelled left wing, which will crush dissent and demand uniformity of political expression. Hence fascists can be of the left or right.

    The same applies to racists. They may be thought of as left wing, like Stalin, who evicted the Crimean Tartars and suppressed other ethnic minorities. or right wing, like Franco, who outlawed te Basque and Catalan languages. That arch racist. Adolf Hitler, as a Nationalist might be considered right wing; the Socialist element of his party's title, might, however, have placed him on the left.

    The Nick Griffin egg incident showed a confrontation between two fascist groups, both of whom could be labelled as left wing.

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  • 423. At 9:14pm on 09 Jun 2009, stevep wrote:

    Kayaydee post 367

    Not a great film but did you ever see Lethal Weapon 2? Bad guys being white S Africans made during the apartheid period. To distract attention while Gibson is sneaking in the back Danny Glover enters the embassy and expresses his desire to emigrate to S Africa. Very funny and gets the point across as it shows up the emptiness and contradictions of that stupid system. Just brought it back to me reading your post.

    Not sure it would work with thugs like the BNT and their opponents. However would expose them for the empty fools they are which would probably be the main thing.

    Steve

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  • 424. At 9:15pm on 09 Jun 2009, Dresden, gateway to The Potteries wrote:

    I live in a once thriving industrial area. Mining, ceramics and manufacturing supported the vast majority of families in the town. These provided the sort of jobs where the less academic in society could work hard in a physical environment to earn enough to have a reasonable standard of living for themselves and their dependants.

    Times have changed. The lads who once worked down the mines or on the pot bank are either unemployed or filling time in dead end, minimum-wage jobs. All our government can say is "retrain, study, get qualifications.." These may be a suitable aspiration for some but not for a significant majority. They feel completely let down by the party that's supposed to represent them. For example, where will the 6000 employees of LDV Vans find work if a buyer can't be found?

    Along comes the local BNP councillor (and yes, we have a few). While the likes of PM's anti-facist interviewee is throwing eggs and regurgitating slogans, he's sorting out local issues, stopping for a chat in the pub and dropping some shopping off for the old dear up the road. It's here that the battle should be fought. The BNP aren't winning votes by pushing their racist views but by offering the dream of a society where working men (and it is usually men that they appeal to) can have the sort of lives that their fathers did.

    It's down to Labour to come up with a clear policy on how millions of working class voters will find fulfilling employment in our globalised society.

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  • 425. At 9:16pm on 09 Jun 2009, DiscoDaveV wrote:

    Discrimination is Wrong!! All politicians should be pelted with eggs.

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  • 426. At 9:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, timidman wrote:

    I appreciate the horrors of the Holocaust and the evil that was the National Socialist Party in Germany but why do all these bloggers only refer to these facists? I have just tried to find out the numbers who died under Stalin. It seems some 700,000 died in 1937-38 alone. Then there were the purges in the Red Army - and against cossacks too I believe-. He sent execution squads to Mongolia and the list goes on. Then of course the actions of the Chinese Red Factions from the Maoists to today, North Korea etc.

    As I have said before there is no difference except that far left violence sadly is to be tolerated more than that of the far right!

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  • 427. At 9:21pm on 09 Jun 2009, AidanArthur wrote:

    2ndcornets. your litany of prejudice clearly shows that you are a fully fledged bigot, and not one who has just been turned on to BNP fascism.Briefly the unemployed are so because of a lack of employment opportunities; they are most often also "genuine British working people" whose jobs have disappeared in the current recession.Objectors to the the politically correct merely express their resentment at not being able to express their bigotry unchallenged. You are the neanderthal past

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  • 428. At 9:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, MarchesMan wrote:

    I find the comments of the various 'mainstream' politicians hypocritical beyond belief.
    From a government that has lied, cheated and deceived throughout it's term in office, launched an "illegal" war to export 'democracy' to a sovereign state, and have had their own snouts so far in the trough of the public purse that they've lost sight of their responsibilities in running the Country. Have effectively bankrupted the Country during their term of office, allow two terrorists to remain as MP's & draw their excessive allowances, whilst refusing to swear allegiance to our Sovereign, quite happily sit in Cabinet/Parliament with (formerly) fully paid up members of the Communist Party, whose disciples e.g. Stalin, have been responsible for far greater genocide than all the fascists put together, yet when a properly constituted & legal (?) British party participate in a democraticaly held election, using the proper political process, and have the audacity to win two seats in a morally bankrupt institution, it's held up as a shame on democracy and the victors vilified beyond beleif.
    It seems that Democracy is OK, just so long as the 'right' people win ?
    Nearly 1M people voted for the BNP, I wasn't one of them, and I never will be, but the mainstream politico's need to look at putting their OWN houses in order, not diverting attention to, and condoning personal attacks upon an ineffectual minority.

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  • 429. At 9:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, freerangeorganic wrote:

    I think Legendroybar may be right about the BNP setting the incident up. A few years ago they invited Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the French National Front, to give a news conference at a hotel in Altrincham. They gave the whereabouts of the meeting out to anti-fascists at the last minute outside a pet food shop in Stockport, assuming presumably that not many would find the Cresta Court Hotel and that Griffin and Le Pen would be able to look suitably presidential in front of a small picket line. Instead hundreds attended, overpowering Griffin's Combat 18 minders and causing real problems for the police who were completely taken by surprise. Interestingly the BNP had booked the room in the name of the Trafalgar Club, a regular pseudonym but an odd choice with which to welcome a French collaborator.
    It is important to oppose the BNP but we have to choose our moments. The Nazis won power on the streets as much as through the ballot box and there is a time for standing up and being counted. But there are lessons to be learned from this incident.

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  • 430. At 9:33pm on 09 Jun 2009, UKPahana wrote:

    Re 420 Nicki noodle

    The right to say whatever you like should apply, that is why we have a democracy.

    The errosion of free speech is detrimental to a democratic society. There cannot be a multicultural society without a variety of beliefs.

    We have already started down the path of a controlled society more in line with a repressive regime.
    The art of discussion and debate is a dying art much to the detriment of our following generations who will never be allowed to decide their own views but have to tow the politically correct views laid down by the government and media of the time.

    There have been films predicting societies falling into this state of decay many thought that they were fiction on release, they may be re-catorgarised as visionary.

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  • 431. At 9:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, mattinthebalaclava wrote:

    Nick Griffin should be able to say whatever he likes without fearing for his personal safety. On the other hand, we shouldn't be forced to hear him say it. I hope in future he confines his broadcasts to the radio, where I can easily tune him out.

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  • 432. At 9:34pm on 09 Jun 2009, Jon Sibbald wrote:

    After he had been pelted with eggs Griffin said that it was a black day for British democracy. I would say that it was a black day for democracy when he and his fascist friend were elected to the European parliament and as a UAF activist in Wakefield I was dismayed and disgusted to find that I was to be represented in Europe by the BNP

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  • 433. At 9:35pm on 09 Jun 2009, gregorykim wrote:

    Since my earlier comment (No 135) I have thought more about the situation. I live in a south of Englandcountry town which now has 7 Mosques/prayer rooms/study centres, one built alongside a church, over which it towers, as they always do-check the nearest one to you. We have bus drivers from eastern Europe countries, many of whom can't speak English and heaven knows where they got (bought?) their driving licences from. The young fascist lady has made me change my support from another protest party, which didn't do that well, to the BNP, who at least got 2 seats. I shall put a decent sized cheque to them in the post tomorrow.

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  • 434. At 9:42pm on 09 Jun 2009, KEEPHOPPING wrote:

    people should find out what BNP stands for these days not what they think it does it is what it says british national party thats every one with a british passport no matter what colour they are they could be green, purple,pink with orange spots as long as they are a british national they are here for you all they want to do is stop us paying out to the eu and every one that holds their hand out because we are a soft touch it has to stop and put us first and these people will do it there are people of all races and religions in the BNP these days because they were born here and have a uk passport the BNP will put Britian first not every one putting their hand out and put a stop to people coming here that are not entitled to before any one throws any thing else find the facts first

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  • 435. At 9:46pm on 09 Jun 2009, radsatser wrote:

    Why do so many of you feel the need to prefix your comments with " I in no way support the BNP" or " I abhor everything the BNP stand for" , or some other banal comment as if you feel the need to carry out an act of penance to the blogosphere to justify what you are about to say.

    The simple fact is that most of us outside of these blogs and I include myself, would never put our heads above the parapet on any contentious issue especially this one, because of the potential risks both economically and careerwise we may be subjected to. This is simple cowardice on our part and it has allowed the chattering classes of the liberal left to dictate policy, with the centre right frightened of its own shadow that it might be accused of racism if it raises the issue. The result is the multicultural mess that we are now in, with every concession given being followed by two more demands.
    What the bloody hell did any of you expect. Whatever the faults of the BNP, they have at least the courage to speak out about the issues that impact on all of us.

    This moral indignation is patent rubbish, to the PC and multiculturism brigades, everybody is a racist, we just don't know it, and we are guilty until proven innocent, which can only be achieved by imposing more and more positive discrimination in favour of minorities.

    I am conservative with a small 'c' and I find it beyond the pale that David Cameron is a signatory to this campaign by the thugs of the UAF. I would be a natural Tory voter at the general election, but if this is the sort of undemocratic activity the Conservative Party supports, then I and no doubt many others will have to consider the Conservative Party in a different light.

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  • 436. At 9:58pm on 09 Jun 2009, stevep wrote:

    2ndcornets. Post 413

    I agree that genuine working people have a good case for electing people who will look after their interests. Wonder why the hell you think the BNP would actually do that? They will make claims, like all other parties on the make. However fascist groups have a very poor track record of actually improving things for ordinary people.

    But then from your other comments it sounds rather like you prefer to hate indiscriminately rather than actually pay attention to the facts.

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  • 437. At 9:59pm on 09 Jun 2009, Bubblefish777 wrote:

    I think the fact the other parties like Labour, conservatives and Liberal Democrats have yet again 'presumed' on our behalf that the BNP getting is a mistake shows they have learned nothing. Regardless of whether you like or dislike the BNP they represent those that votes them in. They are a legitimate party and they deserve the same rights and options to speak as everyone else. OTHERWISE is it ok for the big 3 to disregard the Greens ? UKIP ? or any party they happen not to like ? Just to make the point I will vote BNP next election. i don't agree with what they say but they have a RIGHT the same as everyone else including the arrogant lass on the radio to speak (nice point she availed her self of a chance to put her view while seeing nothing wrong in what she did). I also have to say RADIO 4 .... you were very very easy on her .... I've heard you take far less literate people to pieces so how come the kid gloves this time ???????

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  • 438. At 10:02pm on 09 Jun 2009, FemaleRambo wrote:

    This woman is delusional - she has no mandate to claim to represent anyone let alone 'the majority view' and she certainly does NOT represent my view.

    The reason the BNP increased their number of votes despite decreased voter turnout is because they dare to speak what many people think.

    I don't agree with everything the BNP says but I, for one, am fed up with the HUGE wave of immigration into this country and its effects. I agree with the BNP that grammar schools should be brought back. I agree that there should be workfare not welfare. I agree that my local council should not be using funds to promote such things as African Music etc. I agree that the married man's allowance should be brought back to support families. I agree that it is unfair for immigrant families to take priority over British families for our best schools simply because they rent or are provided housing in the catchment area.

    I am fed up with the general acceptance that it is okay for Asians, Blacks etc to bang on about their culture and rights, but the minute anyone tries to support British culture they are deemed racist. I am fed up that it is now considered offensive to say Happy Christmas and we must now say Seasons Greetings. I am fed up that my child celebrates Diwali at school but not St George's Day or the Nativity.

    I do not feel that any of the mainstream parties represent the native British people as they are too concerned with placating the growing and vocal number of immigrant voters many of whom appear to dislike British culture, our religion, our food, our music and even our laws. That is why they seek to impose their own way of life. They should be told to integrate or emigrate and preferably take the 'unite against fascism' crowd with them - let them celebrate foreign culture first hand -Swat Valley and the Taleban await you Madam!

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  • 439. At 10:02pm on 09 Jun 2009, AidanArthur wrote:

    gregorykim. What a pathetic life you must be leading when you spend your time comparing the height of churches and mosques-could this be a new hobby to replace train spotting and taking the dog to poodle parlours?

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  • 440. At 10:03pm on 09 Jun 2009, UKPahana wrote:

    radsatser

    See 408 desperate times desperate measures!

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  • 441. At 10:03pm on 09 Jun 2009, anjzblog wrote:


    holocaust + fascism in 2009 = the throwing of eggs, reasoned debate and anything else at these bnp losers.

    anyone in any doubt, read: 'if i were a man' by primo levi.





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  • 442. At 10:05pm on 09 Jun 2009, nikki noodle wrote:

    @430 UKPahana

    We only have the right of Free Speech up to a certain point, which is described by the offence created by section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986:

    "(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he:
    (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour...
    ...within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby."

    after that point, he has lost his right.

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  • 443. At 10:06pm on 09 Jun 2009, Redheylin wrote:

    Dresden (424) Bravo!

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  • 444. At 10:11pm on 09 Jun 2009, J_O_E_L_-_C wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 445. At 10:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, UKPahana wrote:

    Re 442 nikki noodle

    Time to lock up half of the pub circuit comedians then?
    Followed by a huge percentage of teenagers and a proportion of school children.
    Society finds its own moral boundries without statute and dictate, those who try to cause offense are usually laughed at or ignored certainly not crucified.

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  • 446. At 10:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, stevep wrote:

    torporchallenger post 416

    Democratic patriots uncritically support all of Britain's wars Now theres a blanket statement if I ever hear one. Dont suppose you have any actual evidence to back out that claim?

    One of the reason so called fringe parties have gathered support is that bigots have indiscriminately shot-gunned all and sundry in their desire to spread their bile and hatred. You would think by now that they would have realised that hurling insults and abuse at people is not a good way of winning hearts and minds.

    I could call myself a democratic patriot in that I am a democrat and loved both my countries. Judging by your statement I suspect you are neither. Do you know anything about my views on Britains past wars? Or of other countries and people? Of course you dont. So stop being so stupid and ignorant.

    The difference between us seems to be I oppose violence when there are alternatives. You oppose violence unless its in a cause you favour. I dont write blank cheques, EVER! I view people who do with fear [because of the potential consequences of their actions] and contempt [because such behaviour is bloody stupid].

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  • 447. At 10:24pm on 09 Jun 2009, stevep wrote:

    post 446

    Just to clarify something I said in this post. I used 'so called fringe' because not only did some fairly extreme parties, most noticably the BNP, gather a frighteningly large number of votes. Also UKIP, which many would have placed in that category was the 2nd most popular one overall.

    Hopefully the pagination works this time as I seemed to have lost all spacing between sentences on post 446? - On the other hand it seems to have got on almost straight away.

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  • 448. At 10:28pm on 09 Jun 2009, lionsteveblogger wrote:

    First time on the blog for me. Cannot listen to the myopic people any longer who force their wants on me. I do not like nor agree with the BNP but we are a democracy. The police should arrest the egg throwers. Failing that time for the military to take over. Enough is enough

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  • 449. At 10:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, northernbloke67 wrote:

    Reading the comments on this blog I'm left astounded that people actually believe the vast majority of the public don't support the ideas of the BNP. A recent poll highlighted that the majority of the BNP wanted an end to immigration but over 60% of people (non BNP) wanted the same thing. So to the prople who believe everyone is content in this country you need to wake up. The comparison with the 1920's -30's in Germany is remarkable. A sense of injustice (Treaty of Versaille / the November criminals, scapegoating the Jews) playing on peoples fears and predjudice (Islam immigration today/ the Jews / communists then), the faltering economy. Hitler preyed on these issues to great effect. Eddie carried out a public service today by exposing the crass, juvenile tactics of this organisation. They have played right into the hands of the wavering voters who may just give the BNP a go next time. One thing is for certain, today's performance was a mistake, anyone who thinks that is the right tactic to undermine the BNP is deluding themselves.

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  • 450. At 10:41pm on 09 Jun 2009, kwakerbaz wrote:

    I find it hard to believe that some misguided , misinformed moron's can still defend the oppression of the most basic liberty, freedom of speech.
    To try and compare the BNP with the NSDAP of the 1920's is akin to calling the labour party communists.
    It is clear that there is little to choose between the main party's.
    However , when we have the next general election I hope we have an electoral system that will allow extreme parties to have a say. A wake up call. A coalition of ideals.

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  • 451. At 10:45pm on 09 Jun 2009, UKPahana wrote:

    Eddie,

    Excellant blog tonight but must retire as I will be up at dawn to ensure that the layers are laying.
    Thinking of starting a fund in egg production as I forsee a shortage in the coming months, weapon of choice don't you know.
    Will certainly sleep tonight with a glowing warmth in the knowledge that political debate is alive and kicking even if it needs a jump start every now and then.

    nikki noodle
    Thanks for the debate much appreciated.

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  • 452. At 10:50pm on 09 Jun 2009, Sid wrote:

    I'm just wondering - has anyone asked yet, who voted for Eddie?

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  • 453. At 10:55pm on 09 Jun 2009, levdavidich wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 454. At 11:02pm on 09 Jun 2009, levdavidich wrote:

    @438

    I don't know what planet you are living on but offensive to say happy christmas? - what a load of nonsense. I have never heard anyone saying seasons greetings, I have been wished Happy Christmas by Hindus, Muslims and Jewish people. I got more christams card from a class I taught with majority of Asians kids than I ever have from good christian white kids. It is just these sorts of racist lies that the BNP try to spread to drag us down into the gutter with them.

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  • 455. At 11:06pm on 09 Jun 2009, needsanewnickname wrote:

    So Nick Griffin says (as reported on the 10 O'Clock News) that the demonstration todays was orchestrated by the main political parties?

    Ummmm... evidence?

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  • 456. At 11:12pm on 09 Jun 2009, T8-eh-T8 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 457. At 11:15pm on 09 Jun 2009, ordinarydude wrote:

    The BNP member was legally voted in and should be allowed to speak. This country is hopefully, still a democracy and freedom of speech and belief is our constitutional right. The most powerful example of hate and fascism came not from the BNP member, but from the eggs throwers and hecklers.

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  • 458. At 11:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, Brat2002 wrote:

    Dresden, gateway to The Potteries (424)

    Nicely said.

    Labour have sold out to the global capitalist marketplace. They allow capital to move manufacturing bases to countries with slack labour laws and very poor welfare standards. They allow capital to import the cheapest labour it can to what little industry we have left with scant regard for the consequences.

    People here justify the attack on Griffin by comparisons with Hitler and we shouldn't let it happen again. I would suggest that people understand that it was, in part, resentment of harsh economic strains put on the german people post WW1 that created the space for national socialism to flourish.

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  • 459. At 11:17pm on 09 Jun 2009, Blogarooney wrote:

    Eddie
    Got back late. Missed the programme. Saw the blog (400 and counting). Felt compelled to listen on the web way past my bedtime. Of course you weren't a bully; just your usual astute and rational self. Like many others on the blog tonight (what a lot of new bloggers!) I felt that it was a pity that many people did not vote not because it let the BNP in actually but because inertia is setting in. So what if the BP won a few seats? That is what democracy is and it ain't always easy. Better that than the alternative.
    No matter how stupid our politicians are, and they are spectacularly bad at the moment, I consider my right to vote as a precious 'conch' fragile at times but vital to hold on to.

    Can we all go to bed now?

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  • 460. At 11:19pm on 09 Jun 2009, Otter wrote:

    Dear AidenArthur @ 391

    Thank for your passionate reply to my post and also your history lesson concerning the rise to power of the Nazis.

    The reason I took the view that I did was not because I need to "grow up" or because I am blind or deaf, it is because I believe that free speech produces a great market place for ideas, those ideas which repel people do not sell, those that attract people become popular and are accepted, but they are all there for people to see and compare.

    The reason I disliked the activities of the anti-fascist protestors today was because they decided that they did not like what was for sale and started overturning the tables.

    Free speech on its own could not stop the rise to power of Hitler nor did it lead to it, the world is not that simple. However, when particular groups of people start to stifle opposing views (however odious they may be) then we certainly are on the road to tyranny. Why? Because if one group starts, then another will decide that they can also and their target will not be as odious as the BNP, after which you are on the slippery slope where any idea or opinion can be extinguished by a mob and a box of eggs, or worse.

    Best wishes

    Otter

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  • 461. At 11:23pm on 09 Jun 2009, gregorykim wrote:

    Interesting that Aidanarthur picked on a minor comment of mine to ridicule me and completely ignored the substantive point.But my minor point was actually a serious one. Mosques always do have their minarets or the tops of their domes higher than the nearest church. It is deliberately done as a way to demonstrate their view that they are superior to the indigenous Christians into whose countries they are moving.Read any of the Barnabas publications or excellent books by Dr Patrick Sookhdeo to learn more about the spiritual war which is being waged by Islam to take over not just this country but all of western Europe, by 2050.

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  • 462. At 11:27pm on 09 Jun 2009, T8-eh-T8 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 463. At 11:32pm on 09 Jun 2009, gregorykim wrote:

    Levdavidich.BNP lies? So what about the public library in Berks or Bucks that refused to put up posters advertising a carol service, but held an Eide party in the building?

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  • 464. At 11:40pm on 09 Jun 2009, bottleblond wrote:

    As a person with black skin can I kindly ask the lady interviewed and her group not to defend it is distasteful that the BNP were given the job today to defend democracy and free speech (something I value with all my heart ) . What a shameful state of affairs. I get the feeling that she is afraid to take on the challenge of actually confronting the BNP argument head on in public does she not believe she could win the arguments and discredit them.

    If I were to be throwing eggs it would be at the our current politicians of all parties who are giving us no reason to vote as they are offering us nothing that we can believe in enough to drag ourselves away from radio 4 to and vote. It's a sad fact that the only people who have a belief strong that they are willing to exercise democratically are the racist this is indeed a sad state of affair. We now need politics that we can believe in starting with a believe in democracy and free speak even for people we deplore. Get me a platform and Get me some eggs.

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  • 465. At 11:46pm on 09 Jun 2009, mittfh wrote:

    Egg / custard pie throwing can be used to highlight a cause, and Nick Griffin joins a long list of victims - even William Henry Gates III was once subjected to an attack.

    However, anyone not aware of the BNP or its success in the European Parliament elections must have been living in a media blackout for the past few days - so it's difficult to see what the incident achieved other than to postpone Nick's press conference.

    Far more effective would be to have amedia interview with someone clued up enough to force Nick to explain his less media-friendly policies (e.g. encouraging non-Caucasian people to leave the country - and if they stay treating them as "guests") and point by point demolishing his arguments.

    Several people here have mentioned immigration. As we're on the edge of Europe, we're the last stopping point for many migrants - several of whom have passed through other European countries to get here. Rather than leaving the EU and constantly monitoring all those who enter and putting anyone without a return ticket on the next plane out, surely it would be more productive to put pressure on the other European countries to share the load?

    As for the "stealing British jobs" argument, I've heard several tales from companies who've advertised extensively within Britain but had no response from natives - only from migrants. If we banned immigration, what would we do with all the "British Jobs" that "British Workers" aren't interested in applying for - or in the case of the professions, there aren't enough suitably qualified "British Workers" to fill the posts?
    There have also been reports from companies who've hired workers from Eastern Europe and discovered that they were prepared to work harder and for longer hours than British - particularly student seasonal workers who were prepared to put up with the long hours and cramped living conditions for the couple of months they were over here.

    The Tories claim they would cut benefits to those who did not accept a "reasonable" job offer, but having experienced JSA in the past, the JobCentre staff I've experienced rarely seem encouraging if you do more than the minimum requirement to find a job. I spent most days during that time at the library researching job vacancies online, as well as looking at the vacancies in local papers. Once a JobCentre employee told me as I signed on something to the effect of "You don't have to do this much!"

    What hope is there for welfare-to-work schemes if the JobCentre staff seem content to let those on such schemes do the bare minimum to qualify?

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  • 466. At 11:51pm on 09 Jun 2009, stevep wrote:

    Bubblefish777 post 437

    I understand your anger as I know what you mean. Also very accurate in the danger of letting bigots getting away with the use of violence. However the wrongs of the idiots with the eggs today or the fools that continue to put their ideology ahead of peoples feelings and needs doesnt make the BNP any less wrong.

    The old parties do need to wake up and start listening to people. Normally a LibDem myself I havent voted for them in the Euros for over a decade because I got fed up of the blinkers. However going with the BNP would be throwing the baby out with the bath-water. I would ask you to please think very carefully about what you want before taking such a step.

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  • 467. At 00:08am on 10 Jun 2009, Serangoon wrote:

    We keep being told that everything about the BNP's Nick Griffin is bad, but is there any realistic chance that anyone, from any of the mainstream parties, will have the courage to fully debate his policies?
    Or will they all continue to bury their terrified heads in the sand and hope the nasty man goes away?

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  • 468. At 00:09am on 10 Jun 2009, torporchallenger wrote:

    Stevepnew (446)
    The actual evidence you require is there in the real world. I have often had conversations which produced this (apparent) contradiction. It seems to me that deliberately killing non-combatant civilians is a war crime no matter who does it. If it is done by your enemies all your compatriots will agree. If it done by your own country your voice raised against it will matter more - but you will have to confront native bigotry. It seems reasonable to suspect that, if youre a patriot you may well shy away, in the national interest, of course.
    I wasnt referring to your personal opinions (I dont know them) just those of hell of a lot of people. My Mum is one! But without giving you a whole long list I was simply drawing attention to the ludicrous contradictions patriots (often well meaning people) are often drawn into. I am neither proud nor ashamed of being British. I know this is (to most people) an incomprehensible view but I regard the place of a persons birth as being incidental and not a good reason to go off killing people who happen to be born on the other side of a line on a map that was drawn up by others. The presumption that patriotism is good is just wrong (in my view). It is the idea that allowed the abhorrent carnage of the First World War, for example.
    Incidentally, I dont know your views on Britains past wars. You could have given us an example to prove that you do not uncritically support all of Britains past wars but you did not. Why? Is it that you do not but your patriotism prevents you? It seems to me that if this is so, patriotism has done its job.
    You go on to make a number of assertions about my views. That is your right but shouldnt you stick to the evidence? I am glad to hear you dont write blank cheques. I dont either. That was my point.

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  • 469. At 00:17am on 10 Jun 2009, levdavidich wrote:

    @463

    A library in Bucks or Berks, are you sure , I though it was on the moon.

    Again rumours, misquotes all designed to stir up racist hatred

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  • 470. At 00:24am on 10 Jun 2009, Big Sister wrote:

    One thing that keeps bothering me is this: When racial discrimination has been outlawed in all other walks of life in Britain, how is it that we consider it legal for a political party to discriminate against potential members on the basis of race or colour?

    Did I miss something somewhere?

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  • 471. At 00:46am on 10 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Big Sis (470)

    Hi Sis,

    I heard this same question put to Mr Griffin on gaining his seat. His answer was that racial discrimination is working the opposite way too right now and is not outlawed. He said being a member of his party disqualified anyone from joining the police or armed forces. he also said that he would not be allowed to form a white police association thingy thing (don't know what you call it) but, that its all right to have a black and Asian police association. Its these kinds of issues that we have to find answers for if they are to be shown up for what they are. He also sited other things like the historical inaccuracy of the BBC portraying characters like friar Tuck from Robin Hood as black.

    As much as I abore them we have to engage intelligently with them in an uncomfortable manner.

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  • 472. At 00:47am on 10 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    I voted Green

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  • 473. At 00:52am on 10 Jun 2009, frankinsense wrote:

    KEEPHOPPING 434 - It is YOU who should find out what the BNP really stand for. Read their constitution. They are definitely NOT for everyone with a British passport whatever colour as you suggest (where did you get that idea?), nor do they pretend to be. They only allow non-whites to be members of the BNP and want all non-white immigrants and their descendants to 'return to their country of origin' - but do not ask the same of white immigrants and their descendants. As I said, read their constitution, which you could download from their website last time I looked (you couldn't get hold of a copy for years until earlier this year).

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  • 474. At 01:15am on 10 Jun 2009, Andi wrote:

    British politicians have a venerable tradition of receiving direct feedback from their constituents in the form of a good egging. Surely Nick Griffin shouldn't be exempt.

    That said, other means of exposing shabby politicians and their policies are also part of the mix; and I don't see why he should be either exempt from these or enjoy the martyrdom of exclusion.

    At the end of the day, Nick Griffin cast only one of the million votes that elected him and his fellow. None of them were not dissuaded from their vote by the revulsion of others in the BNP.

    Word has it that many of them were drawn to the BNP out of desperation rather than ideology. If our increasing representation by fascists does not teach us to tackle their electors' issues head-on and provide a solution acceptable to some of those 6.2% of UK voters as well as the rest of us, we'd better prepare ourselves for even more BNP representation in the future.

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  • 475. At 01:16am on 10 Jun 2009, petermsgodfrey wrote:

    Further to my earlier post (252), three additional points;

    1. The UAF spokesperson kept saying that the majority of the country do not support the BNP - this is precisely what the election results show - only 6.2% of voters actually voted BNP. Sending one or two BNP MEPs to Brussels does not imply that everyone supports them; it only implies that a significant minority of voters do. This is democracy.

    2. The worst thing the political establishment (and media) can do is to tell the 6.2% of the voters who did vote for the BNP that their vote was either an error on their part (ie. "they didn't know what the BNP's policies are") or that their vote is less valid than anyone else's. That is bound to make them vote that way again (and get others to do the same).

    3. The ridiculous voting system was actually the cause of the BNP's success - they would not have got any seats on a 'first past the post' basis. We must take care not to make knee-jerk changes to our parliamentary voting system which will let the same thing happen there.

    Peter, Goostrey

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  • 476. At 02:10am on 10 Jun 2009, logosfirst wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 477. At 07:32am on 10 Jun 2009, superPerceptive wrote:

    I've never voted BNP in my life, but the immature people who threw eggs and shouted him down have no place in a democracy. If those left wingers want to create their utopia where only their own views are allowed to be heard they should all go to North Korea.

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  • 478. At 08:21am on 10 Jun 2009, modernist2 wrote:

    OK we get the line that the BNP should be resisted by reasoned argument but Eddie completely failed to acknowledge the passion against this fascist organisation shared by many and demonstrated by your interviewee.

    This conventional and very limited interviewing technique is what has allowed the BNP to manipulate the media and conceal their real purpose

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  • 479. At 08:26am on 10 Jun 2009, dickthetaxi wrote:

    What a pathetic, inarticulate, blinkered fool Eddie was forced to interview. She seemed to take the view that she had the moral high ground and that those that dare to disagree should be silenced by any means possible.
    Why do people vote BNP? Probably because none of the other mainstream parties apart from UKIP (yes they are mainstream now as they polled more than labour) dares to speak out against uncontrolled immigration and free movement of labour within the EU.

    60% of the people polled recently said they want immigration controlled or stopped and the BNP are intent on seeing that happen, that's why people vote for them. People know who and what they are as they do with UKIP.
    You cannot say that for the rest of the political parties. New Labour is more conservative than the Conservatives and Cameron is falling over himself to be more labour than Old Labour in order to escape the old image of the party. Neither is borne out of belief or principal, just say what you need to say to get the votes.
    Given the current sad state of British politics is it any wonder 60% of people stay at home on polling day.

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  • 480. At 08:26am on 10 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    I heard Weyman Bennett of the UAF on the World Service.

    It seems that these emails that don't agree with his stance are orchestrated by the BNP.

    Seems he's made a sweeping generalisation there, and is perhaps guilty of stereotyping.

    Now Bush is gone can we drop the bipolarity of either being for or against something?

    If you don't agree with Weyman Bennett and that woman on PM yesterday you must be a BNP supporter? I'll ponder that one.

    Eddie was nasty to the woman on yesterday? Well if she'd been grilled by Charles that called Any Answers when Eddie was hosting it the other week she'd have soiled her underwear.

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  • 481. At 08:32am on 10 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    Isn't this helping the BNP?

    Isn't it like Lord Ahmed getting excited about Geert Wilders visiting the House of Lords to show some fusty old buffers his film Fitna?

    The furore and the refusal of entry got Wilders far more press coverage than if he'd just been let in?

    The BNP are like Jordan? If it wasn't for the press would they actually exist?

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  • 482. At 08:51am on 10 Jun 2009, logosfirst wrote:

    From your jibe about comparing the heights of juxtaposed Christian and Muslim places of worship, AidanArthur (439) I gather that you are not a Christian. In the church they would be praying for your soul (and for the Muslims).

    Next door you might hear these words being preached, "Fight those who do not believe in Allah...And the Jews say Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say Christ is the son of God; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; Allah's curse be on them; how they are turned away!" (Koran 9:29-30)

    AidanArthur, the Christian church soars miles above Islam's 'Allah's-curse-be-upon-you'!

    Some months ago I copied these words from the YouTube blogosphere:
    I luv it when the Kuffar fight among themselves, it will quicken your demise. When da Almighty A sez it is time, ur land will be ours an ur women war booty 4 Allah's mighty armies. 4 he has bequeathed us the whole world an you will be our chattels. Westerners love life more than we love death for Jihad, this is why we will win. Cum 2 Pollokshields it's da future for yous. Allah akbar.

    Tragically, there was no future in Pollokshields for Kris Donald, a 15-year-old teenager, who was murdered by Muslims for being white. See http://seanbryson.com/articles/sv_asian_crime.html. All the major parties would hush it up, but not Nick Griffin, who coined the phrase, Racism cuts both ways.

    Tell that to the UAF!

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  • 483. At 08:58am on 10 Jun 2009, gregorykim wrote:

    Levdavidich 469. It's taken me about 5 mins on the net to get the FACTS.The Library was in HIGH WICOMBE BUCKS. It happened in Dec 2003 . The full details can be found on the web site of the local paper, The Bucks Free Press. The counsellor responsible received 100's of letters, cards and e-mails, against AND FOR, the ban against advertising a Christian service of 9 lessons and carols. One Quoted E-mail "praised her actions against the infidel religion of the Christian dogs" and "promised a Muslim state in Britain". I'll make my cheque to the BNP even bigger.

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  • 484. At 09:09am on 10 Jun 2009, Parax wrote:

    Funny how they want us to know how bad the BNP are yet they wont let us hear how bad they are!


    Lots of good comments here I hope they are read!

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  • 485. At 09:14am on 10 Jun 2009, Big Sister wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 486. At 09:48am on 10 Jun 2009, FemaleRambo wrote:

    @438 and @454

    In answer to your comment: I live with my feet firmly on the ground of planet Earth and I was thinking particularly of my husband's last multinational company where references to 'Christmas break' were deleted and staff were asked instead to refer to the 'Winter break'; where Christmas cards were sent with 'good wishes of the season' instead of 'Happy Christmas'. There have also been several instances of local councils doing the same thing. It may seem 'nonsense' to you, but sadly it is fact.

    The point is that our health, education and welfare systems are creaking under the strain of mass immigration. Resources are finite and there needs to be some way of deciding between all those demanding the services. I think it is only fair that families who have paid for the services over generations should be first in the queue. It is not fair that school places, free health care and welfare benefits are given out on an equal basis to those who have paid in for years and those who have just arrived in this country in recent years. In fact, in cases where immigrant families move into accommodation close to good schools, they can actually leapfrog over local children for school places and where they are homeless, they leapfrog up the council house list.

    If a system favoured those who have lived here for a considerable period over those who have arrived (say in the last 10 years), maybe the UK's attractiveness to immigrants would diminish and a lot of immigrants would return to their countries of origin thus relieving the immense burden on our services. Of course, this would probably mean opting out of Europe in some way well, so be it.

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  • 487. At 10:07am on 10 Jun 2009, BoiledBunny wrote:

    Is immigration the same as racism?

    They're not the same are they?

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  • 488. At 10:13am on 10 Jun 2009, Big Sister wrote:

    Oh dear, who have I offended and why? Somebody from the BNP, perhaps? Because I described that organisation as racist, perhaps? Or just somebody who isn't prepared to allow for reasoned discussion?

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  • 489. At 10:16am on 10 Jun 2009, Sid wrote:

    FemaleRambo

    'There have also been several instances of local councils doing the same thing. It may seem 'nonsense' to you, but sadly it is fact.'

    Are you thinking of the Birmingham 'Winterval' urban myth?

    In general, I have to say I'd prefer to live in a society where homelessness was a good reason for moving up the council house list. The problem is not immigrants - it's governments selling council houses.


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  • 490. At 10:16am on 10 Jun 2009, Big Sister wrote:

    Joe (471): I replied to your points but it has been referred to the moderators.

    You know me well enough by now to know that I was measured in my response and reasonably answered your points. It would appear that, however, there are some who feel threatened by such discussion.

    RIP democracy.

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  • 491. At 10:25am on 10 Jun 2009, mittfh wrote:

    Perhaps it's worth mentioning that the term "immigration" covers a variety of methods of entering the country with intent to settle:

    Migration
    Trafficking
    Asylum

    People entering through each different route will have different backgrounds, different reasons for entering, differing amounts of assets with them etc.

    It would very very dangerous to lump people from all three categories together - should we really close the doors on:
    a) Genuine asylum seekers fleeing severe hardship or threat of being murdered in their own county,
    b) Migrants filling jobs that have already been advertised for months in the UK, but have had no 'native' applicants,
    c) Seasonal workers, who travel here in the Spring and leave in the Autumn.

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  • 492. At 10:34am on 10 Jun 2009, margrete wrote:

    My comment of early yesterday evening is still being moderated. However, much that I wanted to say has been said by others. I must reiterate, however, that Miss Sarah Kavanagh does NOT speak for me. I have lived longer, and seen a few more fascists and Nazis than she has, although she is well on the way to becoming a fully-paid-up member of any fascist party you care to name. Their defining characteristic was a belief in their views above all others, a complete negation of democracy, a willingness to get rid of anyone at all who opposed their views. Doesn't Miss Kavanagh recognise herself in this description?

    I am an English nationalist and, as such, I've been accused of being a racist. Funny how you can be a Scottish nationalist, or an Irish nationalist, and not have this accusation slung at you. I ask my husband, an ethnic Jew and a practising Christian like me, if I am a racist. His response is 'No, you are not. I wouldn't be here if you were'.

    Racism is one of the easiest slurs to cast at any individual or group, without justification. Racism can be practised against the ethnic English, and often is, but we don't have the redress that others have and we can't gain the easy sympathy.

    The BNP has gained support, quite simply, because other parties have failed to address the legitimate concerns of those they were elected to represent.

    Miss Kavanagh talks about 'the majority'...well, it is fact that 'the majority' of ordinary English people DO NOT want unlimited immigration such as we have seen over the last few years. It is a fact that England is now the most populous country in Europe and the 3rd most populous in the world. And yet we are a small island and we just cannot accommodate these numbers in our 'green and pleasant land'. Cannot Miss Kavanagh and her like see that simple fact? Why do all these people want to come here? Why are there queues of young men in Calais desperate to get here by any dangerous means possible, when they have been offered, and refused, asylum in France? France has a far bigger land area. We are at the far end of Europe, an offshore island. Why do they have to come here rather than stop in the first safe country they come to?

    It is these concerns which have not been addressed, that fuel support for an alternative party. Not allowing elected representatives to speak is not democracy. If 'the majority' didn't want the BNP, as Miss Kavanagh says, why did not the majority get out there and vote?

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  • 493. At 10:42am on 10 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Sis (490)

    I didn't get chance to read your post. Somebody didn't like it seems. Try again?

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  • 494. At 11:03am on 10 Jun 2009, Sid wrote:

    gregorykim @ 483

    If you look here you will find that your indignation is misplaced.

    I quote:


    "Of course, to dismantle the myth of a full-scale War on Christmas, it isn't necessary to prove that no low-level council functionary has ever once misguidedly tried to avoid offence by eliminating references to religion. That's what seems to have happened in Lambeth last year, when the council's monthly newsletter, Lambeth Life, referred to some Christmas light displays as "winter lights" - the council swiftly accepted it was an error - and also in High Wycombe, where a member of the library staff refused to display an A4 poster for a carol service in 2003 because of a rule excluding religious or political posters from a noticeboard. (The High Wycombe Carol Service Poster Incident is now regularly wheeled out as an example of how diabolically militant the anti-Christmas forces have become.)"


    Mountains, molehills, storms, teacups ...

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  • 495. At 11:17am on 10 Jun 2009, Big Sister wrote:

    Joe: It went along the lines that the Black and Asian Police Associations seem to accept anybody as an associate member, that they were set up to address the problems ethnic minorities experienced within the police service, that their remit is to promote equality and that they don't, unlike a political party, have any influence beyond the police service. I also agreed that the issue of racial discrimination has been misused by some individuals to serve their own ends, but this very much as a minority issue. Unfortunately, as I didn't save the post (duh!) I have no record of it exactly, but I think those were the main points.

    It's possible, because I mentioned an issue highlighted in the Stephen Lawrence enquiry, that somebody objected to criticism of the police service. We'll see what the mods decide - eventually!

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  • 496. At 11:26am on 10 Jun 2009, alanpotter wrote:

    The only fascist I was aware of was the lady who was trying to prevent someone else from exercising his democratic right to free speech.

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  • 497. At 11:34am on 10 Jun 2009, funnyJoedunn wrote:

    Sis (495)

    Sound like valid points to me.

    Don't see why there is an issue with the Lawrence enquiry. We have a copy of the unabridged version in the library - warts an all. Its all public. I think these mods get a bit paranoid at times.

    Good points about the Asian and Black association having associate white members. Unlike Griffin who would let ethnic minorities vote for him and then repatriate them on gaining power.

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  • 498. At 11:44am on 10 Jun 2009, AgeingSkiFreak wrote:

    The definition of racist is "the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race". I believe there are

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  • 499. At 11:44am on 10 Jun 2009, TerryS wrote:

    Yes, of course we should listen to the BNP - they have a political viewpoint that, apparently, received the support of hundreds of thousands of voters in last week's elections.

    Personally, I know very little about the BNP or their policies so would like to hear them discussed in a rational manner on Radio 4 and elsewhere in the media.

    Whilst racism per se is clearly unjust and wrong, from the brief snippets that I have heard on the radio it is my perception that the 'Unite Against Fascism' crowd are themselves fascistic in their opinions and in their anti-democratic and anti-free speech actions.

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  • 500. At 11:47am on 10 Jun 2009, jonni777 wrote:

    The BNP were elected democratically, but it they had their way, theyd take democracy away from Jews and people who werent white.

    Using democracy to take away peoples rights, like the Nazis did in Germany isnt democracy

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