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Eddie Mair | 16:16 UK time, Wednesday, 26 November 2008

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Be your own radio critic! Tell us here, frankly, what you thought of tonight's programme. In the PM office we meet every night at 1800 in the Glass Box you see above. Add your comment here.

Comments

  • 1. At 4:58pm on 26 Nov 2008, Charlie wrote:



    Lucrezia...

    Now, there's a name to conjure with and, I'd heard she's being employed by the BBC Trust to "handle" Human-Resources. Surely not? it can't have come to that. Can it..?

    Mind you, Mr Ross "presumably" is still shown on the balance sheet as an asset. So, maybe..

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/lucrezia-borgia-unmasked-in-australia-1035181.html

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  • 2. At 5:21pm on 26 Nov 2008, Chris Ghoti wrote:

    Full marks to Eddie for not following the BBC news standard, and for not saying that the monstrous person from Lincolnshire had fathered children 'with' his daughters, as has been being said on the news all day.

    I wish the scriptwriters could think a bit and realise that the *daughters* didn't 'father' anything. They didn't do it with their father. He didn't do it with them. He fathered children *by* them, or *on* them, but not *with*.

    Suggesting that they fathered children with him seems rather objectionable, in fact, given that they were raped. I should think that 'with' him was the last thing they want to be reminded about at this point.

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  • 3. At 5:26pm on 26 Nov 2008, lbeagle wrote:

    Who was the excellent man that Eddie talked to about the rapist - before Roger Graef came on?

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  • 4. At 5:32pm on 26 Nov 2008, Mike wrote:

    Some of the comments made about how to catch the sociopath give me the feeling that the total control state is at hand. Please let us just have punishment to fit the crime. It is impossible to legislate for every eventuality.

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  • 5. At 5:37pm on 26 Nov 2008, hazifantasi wrote:

    Soo..sociopaths..interesting.
    Having spent 9 years as a therapist working in the voluntary sector 85% of my clients suffered sexual abuse from family members. This issue is far more widely spread than anyone dare believe. Prior to pm 'All in the Mind' featured an eating disorder clinic where the teenagers are told they probably have an eating disorder for the rest of their lives. No therapy is offered to explore the issues behind it, apparantly because it 'upset the families'.Another reason given was that not all people who experience distressing events have eating disorders. Its like refusing treatment to people with lung cancer because not all smokers contract lung cancer.

    The complacency of psychiatrists is driving me towards developing an uncurable personality disorder. The registration of therapists and the limiting of therapy to CBT will serve further to push all these uncomfortable realities further below the carpet .

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  • 6. At 5:38pm on 26 Nov 2008, aeroslinker wrote:

    Can these times of ecomical downturn be likened, albeit to a lesser degree, to those of WW2 when, it seemed, an awareness of people and politicians were in agreement. And was it not in that period of uncertainty, that the abusive, vitriolic and vituperative voice of William Joyce came on the air? Can we not hang George Osbourne?

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  • 7. At 6:17pm on 26 Nov 2008, bradenn01 wrote:

    Isn't there a central database to capture concerns raised by professionals and members of the public about individuals and families? Why don't social services hold this information? It is not a case of records having to follow someone around: a computer record doesn't care where you move to.

    Surely even an untrained person reading through such a list of concerns / complaints raised about the same family by unrelated people, professionals and members of the family and general public, would have wanted to conduct a detailed investigation? Certainly a social worker or police officer would have known that it was unlikely to be coincidental.

    Even without that, if medical professionals had raised concerns that the series of birth defects 'could' be caused by incest, why on earth didn't the police / social services insist on a DNA test to make sure? It is not invasive, painful nor particularly expensive and would have answered the question definitively.

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  • 8. At 6:20pm on 26 Nov 2008, missjanebrown wrote:

    While I appreciate that her personal situation, particularly in light of her ill health, is very difficult, I find it hard to feel sympathy for the lady who followed the statement that she has possibly lost £350,000 in the Iceland/Isle of Man banking crisis with the assertion that she is not a wealthy woman. Despite being a reasonably well paid professional with no dependents and little debt, I only just about managed to afford to buy a house 5 years ago for around a third of the money that she has lost, most of which I still owe to a bank. I doubt I will ever own a house worth £350,000 and I find it really quite insulting to be told that someone who has had the good fortune to afford that at any point in life considers themselves not to be wealthy.

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  • 9. At 6:26pm on 26 Nov 2008, islandere wrote:

    Those PM listeners who were moved by tonight's interview with the victim of the Kaupthing bank collapse in the Isle of Man will doubtless feel the same compassion for depositors in Landsbanki Guernsey. Hundreds of British ex-pats and British islanders are in much the same boat. Their many desperate stories make heartbreaking reading on the Depositors Action Group website

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  • 10. At 7:35pm on 26 Nov 2008, U13716967 wrote:

    Hey, I listened to Prime Minister's Question Time, today.

    Silly, I know. So POLITICAL.


    And even worse, thought PM would be interested.

    Remember the revolutionary student Nick of Hornsey? He was the Communist Party guy, there. His Labour Party rival, there, Kim Howells, is now in the government.

    Nick it was, who had the turn of phrase though, if Kim may have had the voice, know you.

    I was reminded today of one of his epithets as Cameron was on his feet.



    I could hear Nick yelling at him

    'The proof
    Of the puddin'
    Is in the eating

    And you intend to do b*gg*r all!'


    Which is right, isn't it? Cameron as a true blue blooded Thatcherite WANTS a deep recession.

    It compromises Obama, hurts the old colonies and communist powers, lets him slash government spending and keep the low paid in fear of unemployment.


    So he would do NOTHING about it!!!

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  • 11. At 9:13pm on 26 Nov 2008, philtblog wrote:

    Hazifantasi @ 5. Family therapy was not routinely used on these young people because the therapists found it was generally unhelpful to confront these issues together, leading to dispute rather than reconciliation. It was a family therapist who explained this, not a psychiatrist. Further, they didn't say that traumatic issues earlier in life were either unimportant or ignored therapeutically, only that they weren't usefully explored in the family therapy setting and therefore this wasn't done.

    The clients at the centre commented positively on the approach of the centre staff and without evidence of outcomes compared with other groups that employ family therapy more widely I don't think we're in a position to criticise this practice. your ascertion that psychiatrists are complacent is presumably based on your own observations but I would argue that such a blanket assessment is not warranted on that basis.

    Bradenn01 @ 7. I sympathise with your point of view but would caution that it is crucially important that innocent people are not subjected to witch hunts on the basis of what may be malicious actions to raise the suspicions of well meaning authorities. Having said that, I have long wondered why the child protection register is regional rather than national, and not computerised.

    I think there is a balance to be struck between the rights and freedoms of the individual and the need to identify and intervene in horrendous cases such as these. I suspect it is the case that there were sufficient triggers to prompt investigation in this case without the need for more draconian measures. DNA testing may not be invasive physically but it is a significant intrusion on one's privacy and although I can see its value in this case I would be concerned about blanket powers to do this 'willy nilly'.

    I'm very sorry to say that if someone is determined, clever and capable of, for want of a better word, evil, it can be very difficult to detect and stop them. I suppose all we can do is check the systems in place, learn and ammend them if neccessary, try to to knee-jerk and support those who's job it is to intervene.

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  • 12. At 9:14pm on 26 Nov 2008, philtblog wrote:

    That's try not to knee-jerk, obviously.

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  • 13. At 11:19pm on 26 Nov 2008, justfloating wrote:

    (12) - philtblog - No knee-jerk I hope. In the end we are talking about very clever manipulating people. Maybe we need some similar people in social services as passive observers. We certainly need them monitoring youngsters internet sites.

    Incentivise them for correctly linking up the evidence. We definitely do not need central databases. What we need is people that can think the unthinkable and spot the patterns. If the police can not react to a direct report then no database will ever help.

    But please never give them power to control the situations.

    In 1996 there was a report published that stated 1 in 6 UK managers fulfilled the criterion for Anti-social personality disorder. They are everywhere, and very clever, but most understand the risks of capture and moderate their activity. Others are just one step ahead always. The stereotypical "care person" is putty in their hands.

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  • 14. At 10:50am on 27 Nov 2008, hazifantasi wrote:

    philtbog 11
    My remark was inadequately and possibly unfairly written in an attempt to highlight situations where a medical model can be applied to situations that require other approaches that are not necessarily measurable or quantifiable.
    It may be how the report was edited that misled me to 'hear' what I believed I heard.
    The other 'experiment' involving the 'men in suits' to label mentally ill people from 'normal people' highlights the inadequacy of a system that operates by labelling and pathologising.

    Many professionals are acutely aware of how wide spread the issues of abuse are in all walks of life and how hidden much of that is from the general publics gaze until shocking news bursts through the confidentiality because some one has finally found the courage to speak out.

    The NHS is rolling out a programme of accessing therapy but the jobs are not open to qualified therapists who have been working for years with lots of relevant experience because they have chosen a therapeutic model that is qualitively researchable and not quantitively researched like CBT.

    The medical model is in a state of panic when it comes to emotional human sufferring, perhaps we are not so easily summed up and whilst we believe we can be, we are allowing individuals to become more and more detatched from their inner emotions and so perpetrate heinious acts with no ability to reflect as its not something that is prized or valued. How many jobs allow thinking time? How often are children allowed to get bored? How much value do we give to just doodling on a page?
    We not only have an economic and ecological emergency , we have an emotional and spiritual one also.
    The fascination with evidence and proof is in danger of suffocating the potential we all have to change and be changed.


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  • 15. At 10:55am on 27 Nov 2008, U13717586 wrote:

    This 18 oercent increase in funding by banks (loans) cf last year.


    I've no doubt that's copper bottomed PM tested, but the questioning didn't cover various reservations one might have.

    (Softly softly catchee monkee baited trap interview? The big kill of bankers later?)

    I'm cautious 'cos the ex Alliance-Leics CEO says bank borrow net from small businesses.

    If a lotta lotta small firms got into (more) trouble these last two quarters (the 'terrible recession' y'know), would an 18 percent increase in net lending be SUFFICIENT? A bald number like that, on a small base, could be consistent with loan starvation, as many firms flounder.



    The Tories say there's hidden UNemployment in the small businesses EMployment numbers.
    That a good many such, are people unemployed in their trade, who then set up as one person businesses 'selling' their skills, in theory, and getting hassle-free business-related income support from the DSS instead of facing dole queue doleur.

    The Tories have convinced the banks of this, which is why they won't lend.

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