« Previous | Main | Next »

Lady Thatcher and a state funeral.

Eddie Mair | 17:40 UK time, Monday, 14 July 2008

What do you think?

Comments

  • 1. At 5:45pm on 14 Jul 2008, kniphofia wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 2. At 5:45pm on 14 Jul 2008, dudesottovoce wrote:

    Billy bragg or billy blagg. i honestly did not think his views could sink lower than his songs.

    Complain about this comment

  • 3. At 5:47pm on 14 Jul 2008, pdsquire wrote:

    Is she dead?! I felt a soar of relief when I turned on this debate half way through, but fear I have been misled. Ah well, we shall have to wait before watching Elvis Costello fulfilling the ambition expressed in his song.

    Complain about this comment

  • 4. At 5:47pm on 14 Jul 2008, anotherbob wrote:

    We routinely give state funerals to the German aristocracy, so why not Thatcher?

    Complain about this comment

  • 5. At 5:48pm on 14 Jul 2008, Adrie van der Luijt wrote:

    What are the chances, given that nearly 90% of Labour's income now comes from not even a handful of trade unions? A typical Brownite solution would be similar to Disraeli being offered a state funeral but turning the offer down in his will.

    Complain about this comment

  • 6. At 5:49pm on 14 Jul 2008, capricornMrSteve wrote:

    A State funeral is likely to make my plans to dance on her grave difficult!

    Seriously though, just what has she done to deserve this honour?

    Complain about this comment

  • 7. At 5:49pm on 14 Jul 2008, Melcrot wrote:

    I propose street parties and bunting to celebrate the iron lady's passing. Thatcher was a national disgrace and should never be regarded as a national treasure.

    Complain about this comment

  • 8. At 5:50pm on 14 Jul 2008, mikmak33 wrote:

    I'm all in favour of a state funeral for Maggie,
    with one condition - They do it now!

    Complain about this comment

  • 9. At 5:50pm on 14 Jul 2008, canongater wrote:

    only if we can bury her now

    Complain about this comment

  • 10. At 5:51pm on 14 Jul 2008, ChocolateVoice wrote:

    State funeral or not - I have one requirement only.

    Elvis Costello to perform "Tramp The Dirt Down" at the funeral.

    Summed up how I felt about her in 1989, sums up how I feel about her 19 years on.

    Complain about this comment

  • 11. At 5:52pm on 14 Jul 2008, lizlorien wrote:

    I just want to voice my total opposition to Mrs. Thatcher having a state funeral. I also think it would create division and direct protest if / when the ceremony went ahead.

    Complain about this comment

  • 12. At 5:52pm on 14 Jul 2008, Gideon-IT wrote:

    Mrs. Thatcher should under NO circumstances be given a state funeral! The very suggestion is preposterous - she was as loathed as she was loved and it would just be a ridiculous waste of money. Personally I'm in the "loathed her" camp - I was somewhat disappointed that she wasn't extradited to Argentina to face trial for war crimes following the disgusting sinking of the Belgrano.

    Complain about this comment

  • 13. At 5:53pm on 14 Jul 2008, susie-a wrote:

    I certainly do not think Margaret Thatcher should receive a state funeral.

    To compare her to Churchill is a mockery as Churchill led our country to victory against the Germans. She took us to war in the Falklands, yes, but surely that does not compare.

    I agree with Bragg that she was a controversial figure and certainly not a figurehead for our country, though she might have thought she was one (We are a grandmother!)

    Complain about this comment

  • 14. At 5:53pm on 14 Jul 2008, ClaireBlog wrote:

    I can't think of anything more inappropriate than a state funeral for thatcher - she prevailed over the most hideous and sustained period of social decline in the recent history of htis country. Personally I have always looked forward to dancing on her grave - a day of for this?

    Complain about this comment

  • 15. At 5:55pm on 14 Jul 2008, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    Heh. Twelve comments and as of 5:53, not one out of moderation.

    Why am I not surprised?

    I say: no. It'll be a farce with some people celebrating, other people being appalled at that and getting ratty, police in riot gear (or simply an exclusion zone around the route)...

    She's too divisive, let it lie.

    Complain about this comment

  • 16. At 5:56pm on 14 Jul 2008, ozric_bish wrote:

    I don't think that Lady Thatcher should have a state funeral. She was a public servant in any office she heldand , therefore, she should have monies form the public purse spent on her for such an occassion. Indeed, maybe the funeral expenses should be put out to Compulsory Competitive Tendering, in keeping with her philosophies. It would be interesting to see the value of her worth in a declining capitalist market.

    In simplest form, it would be a rude waste of public expenditure.

    Yours,
    Ozric Bish

    Complain about this comment

  • 17. At 5:56pm on 14 Jul 2008, Haraldr wrote:

    No. Mr Churchill led the country at a time of real physical danger to us all. I am sure that King George VI would have considered his leadership more important than the King's. This is why he was given a State Funeral; Mrs Thatcher is not in the same league.

    Trevor Adcock UK

    Complain about this comment

  • 18. At 5:57pm on 14 Jul 2008, adrian633 wrote:

    I have just been astounded by Billy Bragg opposing Thatcher's state funeral from a conservative viewpoint. She acted like a head of state and isn't as good as Winston Churchill? It's very sad to hear Billy show such deference to royalty and the warmongering Churchill (see Patrick Buchanan's recent arguments).

    Complain about this comment

  • 19. At 5:58pm on 14 Jul 2008, wearrambler wrote:

    Absolutely not. It is not just her attitude to 'society', which I know has been misrepresented--but not too far away from what came over as her attitude in general about a cooperative 'society'. I remember very well her comments on the class system. She said that a working class man only had to work hard and show that he had a sense of responsibilty and he could move into the middle class. The assumptions behind those words speak volumes about her attitude towards 'ordinary' people.

    A state funeral would be an insult to all of those hard working, responsible working class people that she did absolutely nothing for.

    Complain about this comment

  • 20. At 5:58pm on 14 Jul 2008, noddyblog wrote:

    Ah yes, I can see it now... The noble Sir Mark leading the nation in mourning whilst Carol is busy with her Hello photo-shoot. I'm sure the BBC can make this event happen if it ups the coverage a little more - there's good money to be made marketing to the U.S. Mr. Thomson, (I wonder if Sir Trevor would switch sides for a one-off?)

    Complain about this comment

  • 21. At 5:58pm on 14 Jul 2008, gspuddy wrote:

    if it means that someone is going to see her off then it might be worth it to get rid of the evil woman.

    if it mean we have to wait for her to go in her own time then the only positive i could see is that people might be able to show what they thought of her.

    For me she rates as one of the most evil people to walk the planet and is the cause of the me, me, me society that we now suffer from.

    Complain about this comment

  • 22. At 5:58pm on 14 Jul 2008, tau247 wrote:

    I can think of few people less deserving of a state funeral than Margaret Thatcher. She ruined the lives of millions of people in this country and I for one would have to seriously consider whether I wanted to live somewhere that could ignore that fact by bestowing such an honour.

    Complain about this comment

  • 23. At 5:59pm on 14 Jul 2008, MegMarch wrote:

    No. She shouldn’t have a state funeral. I had the misfortune to witness the impact of Margaret Thatcher’s leadership on the industrial north in the early 1980s. If there is a state funeral, I look forward to a re-run of the Jarrow march as her victims, their children and their children’s children wend their way south to attend it.

    Complain about this comment

  • 24. At 6:00pm on 14 Jul 2008, objectivegroup wrote:

    A State funeral would be a travesty for those millions of ordinary Britons that lost theirjobs, homes and families when Thatcher applied shock economics to a great country.
    A funeral for the woman would be the most devisive act of any government.
    Bob

    Complain about this comment

  • 25. At 6:00pm on 14 Jul 2008, Seonaidh2 wrote:

    State funeral? What's that Dylan line about standing on a coffin to be sure that you're dead?

    Complain about this comment

  • 26. At 6:00pm on 14 Jul 2008, unreformed wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 27. At 6:00pm on 14 Jul 2008, johndevon wrote:

    Her legacy could not be more divisive; she destroyed whole communities - mining,ship-building, iron and steel, creating the selfish loadsamoney society of the eighties and, thence, the ammoral society we have today.

    History will see her as a villain and NOT a heroin. A state funeral would surely have Winston Churchill spinning in his grave.

    John Kiddey

    Devon

    Complain about this comment

  • 28. At 6:00pm on 14 Jul 2008, TheHappiestOtter wrote:

    I am in favour of a state funeral - as long as we can see the body to make sure she's dead. A celebration of her death, rather than a celebration of her life!

    Complain about this comment

  • 29. At 6:01pm on 14 Jul 2008, dt33789 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 30. At 6:01pm on 14 Jul 2008, bizarreMikeJN wrote:

    Who on Earth is Billy Brag?

    Is he some kind of authority on who should, or should not, be entitled to a State Funeral?

    Complain about this comment

  • 31. At 6:02pm on 14 Jul 2008, alanyoung1000 wrote:

    State funeral. I think burning at the stake would be more appropriate.

    Sure the miners needed squashing a little, but the way she destroyed whole villages and deprived men of their incomes to feed their families - it's a national scandel of which we should be throughly ashamed. Need I go on?

    Complain about this comment

  • 32. At 6:02pm on 14 Jul 2008, judipus wrote:

    Thatcher quite rightly should have a state funeral and I will be one of the first to camp out for a good spot to see that bitch put in the ground.
    I'm not doing anything tomorrow if it's not too inconveniente for her!

    Complain about this comment

  • 33. At 6:02pm on 14 Jul 2008, toopinionated wrote:

    No definitely not, she is far too divisive and she has done far less than Churchill, Darwin or Gladstone, to name but three.

    It will turn into a farce and a riot.

    Exactly why does she deserve it?

    Complain about this comment

  • 34. At 6:02pm on 14 Jul 2008, johnbenedict wrote:

    I could not believe that it could seriously be suggested that Thatcher have a state funeral.
    There may be many who admire her but there will be as many who detest her and a state funeral could degenerate into chaos, which might be appropriate considering the conflict she seemed to relish when in power.

    Complain about this comment

  • 35. At 6:03pm on 14 Jul 2008, jonnie wrote:

    I agree with the cat at #15

    Complain about this comment

  • 36. At 6:03pm on 14 Jul 2008, toopinionated wrote:

    Whoa, a lot of comments!!!

    Complain about this comment

  • 37. At 6:03pm on 14 Jul 2008, dazedandamused wrote:

    Far too divisive to have this honour. Her economic experimentation with primary and secondary industry destroyed large communities, we are only now starting to pay the price for selling off the council housing stock at a vastly subsidised rate, and privatisation of natural monopolies still makes no sense unless you are obsessed with short term income because you have a fundamental difficulty understanding economic theory.
    Most of the country pay for her mistakes every day.

    Complain about this comment

  • 38. At 6:03pm on 14 Jul 2008, linus-cat wrote:

    You can have a state funeral as long as i can have my party. A spiteful woman who created a selfish society. Bring it on

    Complain about this comment

  • 39. At 6:04pm on 14 Jul 2008, Peter Bolt wrote:

    All former PMs should be given a State Funeral. They were, for better or worse, the "First Commoner" in their lifetime.
    As regards Mrs T she was instrumental in the (bloodless) overthrow of the Govt in Argentine one of the most vicious Fascist governments of the 20th Century

    Complain about this comment

  • 40. At 6:04pm on 14 Jul 2008, newtactic wrote:

    Definitely no state funeral for Margaret Thatcher. I think this country is still suffering from the mistakes of Margaret Thatcher's administration. She cannot be compared to Winston Churchill, who turned out to be the right man for the job in an hour of need. A strong character she is, a powerful leader she was, but that does not make her policies right or socially just. And if Churchill had been returned in 1945, would we have had a National Health Service? And if Margaret Thatcher had continued in office would we have one now?

    Complain about this comment

  • 41. At 6:05pm on 14 Jul 2008, artistdan wrote:

    A great idea to take her to the land of King Arthur, Barnsley and lay her to rest deep inside the mines she managed to destroy!

    Complain about this comment

  • 42. At 6:06pm on 14 Jul 2008, HIGHTORY wrote:

    She should have a state funeral because she saved the country from economic destruction. Were it not for her economic reforms, allowed manoeuvring space by the Falkland’s War, this country would be in an economic state similar to Italy and London would not be a leading financial centre driving the rest of the UK service sector. Her other actions or inactions are irrelevant; on this basis alone she has given the greatest legacy to this country of any leader since Churchill. Great leaders are never not controversial; it is defined that they must be in order to achive real change.

    Complain about this comment

  • 43. At 6:06pm on 14 Jul 2008, timblogs wrote:

    Couldn't we get a two for one deal and chuck mark in the same hole? I'll do the digging any day this week...

    Complain about this comment

  • 44. At 6:06pm on 14 Jul 2008, Gillyches wrote:

    Billy Bragg must be losing his perspective... certainly Lady Thatcher shouldn't have a state funeral.... but by the same token, neither should Tony Blair!

    In fact, Tony Blair did more damage than Lady T!

    Complain about this comment

  • 45. At 6:06pm on 14 Jul 2008, 6longcroft wrote:

    Thatcher has done nothing to warrant a state funeral.

    6 months before the Falklands conflict she was prepapred to remove British passports from its residents. Subsequently she was the direct cause of the conflict as she probably signalled to the Argentines that she was prepared to give the islands up.

    In 1988 she told us that if we double our toll on the Severn Bridge to £2 we could have free passge by 2006. Immediately after the increase she agreed to gift the M48 bridge to the current owner. And 2006 came and went with a current crossing of £5.30; which earns the bridge company close onto £1 Billion per annum.

    I paid daily to travel to work in Bristol for over 20 years

    Thatcher did nothing to benifit me.

    Complain about this comment

  • 46. At 6:06pm on 14 Jul 2008, David_McNickle wrote:

    SSC 15, Other than the first post, you spoke too soon. 16 more and counting, most from people I've never seen on the blog before.

    Complain about this comment

  • 47. At 6:06pm on 14 Jul 2008, Gary_HongKong wrote:

    I find some of these comments quite pathetic. Even after all this time, 'they' still don't get it. Mrs. Thatcher did more good for this country and particularly the poor than decade upon decade of waste and misdirection from Labour politicians who are well motivated but hopelessly wrong in the solutions they peddle. You only have to look at the UK in the 21st century and glimpse back to the dreadful 1970's when we were utterly doomed. Billy Bragg is mired in the pathetic past which was destroying our country. For example, look at the life expectancy of males in Glasgow East - it's 63 years - that's what Labour does for you - this will help people to understand what failure Labour gives 'it's' people. Mrs. Thatcher totally deserves a state funeral when that sad day comes; we must celebrate her saving of this great country. Just rejoice in her premiership - compared to the lies of New Labour going to war in Iraq based on lies and spin, her war was one of principle and dazzling courage. It is shameful that people who may not agree with her can't move on. Shame on you.

    Complain about this comment

  • 48. At 6:07pm on 14 Jul 2008, doleczech wrote:

    Incredible why we should be having a debate about a state funeral for a person who bought about the death of socialism to this country. I personally will be having a party on the day maggie dies, as i think everyone else should. A woman who turned union on union, allowed the selling off of most of the social housing in this country without providing adequate provision for more and took us into a strategic war just to do the bidding of the U.S. and divert attention from the economic mess we were in at home, should not be celebrated as a hero. Its time we woke up to the fact that Maggie created the lack of social cohesion we suffer with now in this country by embedding the class divide and increasing it.

    Complain about this comment

  • 49. At 6:08pm on 14 Jul 2008, mtfc-stag wrote:

    No state funeral more like a Day of National Celebration.

    Complain about this comment

  • 50. At 6:08pm on 14 Jul 2008, giactor wrote:

    It took me so long to register that PM is over but if tax payers pay for state funerals, I refuse to contribute towards anything for this frightful woman. Does anyone have an address where I can object along with thousands of others? After moving to Australia in 1977 and visiting the UK every two years, I saw the damage she did to my country and only moved back when her own party rejected her. It will take years to repair the devastation she caused.

    Complain about this comment

  • 51. At 6:08pm on 14 Jul 2008, judipus wrote:

    How about holding it in Liverpool I'm sure they would get in the spirit and Murdoch can give the eulogy.

    Complain about this comment

  • 52. At 6:10pm on 14 Jul 2008, Squidbutt wrote:

    After her forced retirement, Margaret Thatcher was paid US$500,000 a year to advise Philip Morris International on how to penetrate tobacco markets in Eastern Europe and the Third World.

    Clearly, teenagers in Thailand and Romania need a regular supply of Marlboro Lights.

    For her help in providing this, former Health Secretary Thatcher should definitely be given a state funeral; how about tomorrow?

    Complain about this comment

  • 53. At 6:13pm on 14 Jul 2008, rockMikeblog wrote:

    At the end of the Falklands War Mrs Thatcher criticised the Archbishop of Canterbury for expressing sympathy for and praying for the families of the Argentinians as well as the British forces killed ands maimed. For that reason if for no other she does not deserve a staye funeral.
    Rockmikeblog

    Complain about this comment

  • 54. At 6:13pm on 14 Jul 2008, FutileOptimism wrote:

    A National Holiday, not a state funeral. This divisive woman is equally reviled and revered. There will be counter demonstrations at any state funeral of hers. She destroyed the public service ethic, as well as most of British manufacturing industry, all on the back of North Sea oil money, now all gone with no capital investment to show for it; and she destroyed London's government and sold off the town hall! I shall throw a party on the day of her funeral.

    Complain about this comment

  • 55. At 6:14pm on 14 Jul 2008, thatshalot wrote:

    I'm in favour of a state funeral for Thatcher provided its on the other side of the Atlantic and they pay for it. The sooner the better. Is it a prerequisite that you have to die first.
    Perhaps the Argentinians have their own views.She belongs with Churchill who was a war mongerer and had our own miners shot whereas she only killed the coal industry.

    Complain about this comment

  • 56. At 6:14pm on 14 Jul 2008, Janebert wrote:

    Are we going to give every prime minister a state funeral? Why does Thatcher qualify over anybody else? I remember the Falklands War - give Simon Weston a state funeral instead.

    Complain about this comment

  • 57. At 6:16pm on 14 Jul 2008, Barry wrote:

    Is Thatcher dead? I don't have a TV and have listened to very little radio over the past few days. If she is still with us isn’t this discussion ghoulish. If she has left us I think a public cremation would be a far better supported idea. Preferably at the stake.

    Complain about this comment

  • 58. At 6:16pm on 14 Jul 2008, fabrosiek wrote:

    I am totally appalled at the idea of 'that woman' being given a State Funeral. The only thing she ever did for this country was to cause division. She is a cold hearted selfish individual. The society she created was one of greed, personified in her son. Her lack of support for the release of Nelson Mandela showed her racism and how wonderful that the great man has shown her just what being a leader should all be about. Now there is someone who deserves all the accolades that could be given to anyone.

    Complain about this comment

  • 59. At 6:18pm on 14 Jul 2008, spinvet40 wrote:

    Billy Bragg's comment that in a recent survey the average 20 year old put Margaraet Thatcher 3rd in the list of the most hated people does'nt wash with me.
    The average twenty year old has not the intelligence to evaluate evidence to make a meaningful comment about anybody.
    Winston Churchill himself said that the main arguement against democracy is to have a five minute conversation with the average voter.
    Peter Hill, School Aycliffe, Co. Durham

    Complain about this comment

  • 60. At 6:18pm on 14 Jul 2008, cherrytree wrote:

    Living in a part of Britain which suffered terribly in the Thatcher era, I am astounded that the idea has even been considered. I believe that many of the social problems we are experiencing now are as a result of the exclusion of a tranche of the population during that time. I know I am a Labour party voter but still think that Churchill deserved his state funeral, crucially because when he was at his greatest he led a coalition. What a shocking precedent this might set- I know Gladstone had a state funeral, but in the twenty first century? Not under ANY circumstances. This must not happen!

    Complain about this comment

  • 61. At 6:20pm on 14 Jul 2008, Osmokonk wrote:


    Thatcher once, described people like myself as 'the enemy within' because we had the temerity to oppose her virulent policies. This suggestion is an affront to all who disagreed with the naked greed she espoused as prime minister.

    Complain about this comment

  • 62. At 6:21pm on 14 Jul 2008, hibiscus16 wrote:

    a stste funeral if she can be taken to Sellafield and chucked in with the waste. I MIGHT EVEN TURN OUT just to make sure she had finally gone.

    Complain about this comment

  • 63. At 6:22pm on 14 Jul 2008, VelaLuka wrote:

    I think it is tasteless to discuss this subject in public now but as it has been raised I must say I do not think Lady T should receive a state funeral. Churchill was truly exceptional, a were Nelson, Wellington and Palmerston. Lady T is only exceptional in that she was the first female PM of this country. Other more deserving PMs were not so honoured, for example Attlee did a wonderful job as Churchill's deputy, headed probably the most difficult government we ever had and gave us the NHS. Incidentally, I'm no socialist.

    Complain about this comment

  • 64. At 6:24pm on 14 Jul 2008, susiesmyth wrote:

    Lady Thatcher must NOT be awarded a state funeral this would be a travisty. She was an eminent politiician not a member of State, she did not bring "peace in our time" just money to the stock market. She exasperated the Northern Ireland issues, supported the Pinocet regium and did little to assist global issues such as South Africa. She improved our wealth but not our souls.

    I say "Thank you" to Lady T for her hard work and dedication but if she was given a State Funeral paid by my tax I would stand there with a placard with a different message!

    Complain about this comment

  • 65. At 6:27pm on 14 Jul 2008, bing1972 wrote:

    A state funeral for Thatcher would be a national disgrace.

    Sadly, Thatcher was in a position to act on her skewed view of life, I refer to her comment that there is no such thing as society. Her legacy to us is a country with no industrial infrastructure. Out of control privatised utilities and many young people who are currently the victim of her elitist, free market policies.

    A blag bag and a wheelie bin would be more appropriate.

    Complain about this comment

  • 66. At 6:28pm on 14 Jul 2008, bing1972 wrote:

    Post 65 should have read black bag.

    Complain about this comment

  • 67. At 6:28pm on 14 Jul 2008, gasman wrote:

    A little late, as I have joined the blog just for this post!!
    I certainly hope she IS dead. Is she???

    The most hated figure in British politics since I began watching in the 1950s.
    Her hubris and misguided destruction of trade unions together with a swathe of British industry and the "spirit" of the nation has to give her a special place in the hearts of the criminal minded or bone headed Tory tendency. Only they can celebrate her life.
    The rest of us, interested in democracy, free speech and pacifism will celebrate her passing but mourn the loss of the labour party, whose present and last leader think she is to be admired. Shame on them!

    Complain about this comment

  • 68. At 6:35pm on 14 Jul 2008, edrub wrote:

    Lady Thatcher is the darling of the right but to a large part of the population, she was disliked. Many hated her. I would think about a third to half of the electorate felt this way. She destroyed 20% of our industry in the early 1980s and laid waste the mining communities. She seemed to lack compassion.

    State funerals (I would like to know whose idea this was) should be reserved for the most exceptional people who have served the country in a non-partisan way and who attracted widespread respect and affection.

    Complain about this comment

  • 69. At 6:37pm on 14 Jul 2008, Caladvalch wrote:

    Under no circumstances!
    Churchill was the nation's leader in a war that he warned the country (and paticularly its politicians) about.
    Thatcher was a leader in a war that her inept government caused. The armed forces then won it, not her. Thatcher's most memorable contribution was to utter someone else's prayer, not fine words of her own devising.
    To give her a state funeral would also show the worst side of this nation as it would be disrupted by protesters - the men, women and children (now adults) that suffered so badly during her premiership.
    What a pity for the women of this country that she was the first female Prime Minister. It must have set the cause of women in politics back many years. (And do remember, she did nothing to bring in more women into positions of power.)

    Complain about this comment

  • 70. At 6:38pm on 14 Jul 2008, soapboxers wrote:

    The quote I associate with Maggie is 'Where there is discord, may we bring harmony' etc. I remember her saying it and knew then she would do the opposite, which she did. I feel she robbed the nation of its assets, selling off the housing stock and utilities to anyone without a thought for the future. She also created the 'me me me' society from which we are still suffering.

    Just look at the bad memories and ill feeling the suggestion of a state funeral has stirred up.... It would be a disaster!

    Complain about this comment

  • 71. At 6:39pm on 14 Jul 2008, Genfly wrote:

    For those of us who spent the James Callaghan 1970s trying to promote British declining industry to the rest of the world, Margaret Thatcher was and still is a Saint.
    Q: What would Britain be like today if it wasn’t for Margaret Thatcher?
    A: Albania in the 1960s

    Complain about this comment

  • 72. At 6:44pm on 14 Jul 2008, thatchersurvivor wrote:

    A state funeral for That Woman?

    All those against this preposterous and offensive idea must start organising now! Local sites suitable for communal grave-jigging should be suggested, agreed upon and widely communicated without delay. There is obviously no time to lose - and I just checked that the 'danceonmaggiesgrave' domain is still available for the less technologically-challenged amongst us. Is Trafalgar Square still available as a focal point for public rejoicing? There must be others. Who will start the counter-offensive ball rolling?

    Complain about this comment

  • 73. At 6:44pm on 14 Jul 2008, linus-cat wrote:

    comment 71 neatly shows how far off their heads Thatcher's supporters really are and were. Lets get this funeral going asap

    Complain about this comment

  • 74. At 6:45pm on 14 Jul 2008, museolog wrote:

    I don't care what they do with the body, just so long as they make sure she's DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!

    Complain about this comment

  • 75. At 6:46pm on 14 Jul 2008, suehutch wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 76. At 6:49pm on 14 Jul 2008, caraboohunter wrote:

    Maggie.... state funeral? wow lets go the hole hog and give robert mugabi a knighthood, tony blair an envoy to the middle east and every other rich person free rein to live tax free in britain..... of course that woman does not deserve a state funeral.... are we going to give one to tony benn? now theres a man who has been humble in his service to this country and actually done some good, un like maggie... she was devicive, unpleaseant destroyed any hope for the working person in this country, made the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, ruined state education, AND STOLE CHILDRENS MILK! I have £50 sved so when she goes to the warm place i will have a celebratory drinky!

    Complain about this comment

  • 77. At 6:49pm on 14 Jul 2008, scarafagio wrote:

    The idea of margaret thatcher having a state funeral is an anathema - she did more to destroy the state than any other politician. She can afford to pay for her own funeral - so we should let her.

    Complain about this comment

  • 78. At 6:50pm on 14 Jul 2008, caraboohunter wrote:

    and dont forget the battle of the bean fields!

    Complain about this comment

  • 79. At 6:53pm on 14 Jul 2008, TheRealGerbil wrote:

    No

    A state funeral should be reserved for those who the nation wishes to honour, not half of it.

    All though it would be amusing to hear the crowed shout "Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, in, in, in"

    I'll make her a deal. If she has a private funeral i keep my celebrations private. If she has a state funeral i, and i'm guessing many others, will ensure it has no solemnity, no decorum and no respect.


    Complain about this comment

  • 80. At 7:05pm on 14 Jul 2008, IslingtonAngel wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 81. At 7:08pm on 14 Jul 2008, ackneyacker wrote:

    Brilliant idea, lets become the country that celebrates a woman who befriended the man responsible for the torture and disappearance of thousands of chilleans!! oh almost forget -and tossed thousands of mining families and communities on the scrapheap. Cant wait.

    Complain about this comment

  • 82. At 7:26pm on 14 Jul 2008, cestriamackem wrote:

    It has taken me the best part of the day to actually calm down after hearing this debate this morning on Radio 4. What on earth does the BBC really think it is going to achieve by actually seeming to endorse this thought, on behalf of its fee paying masses. Most of the licence payers here will have lived through, or endured more like, the vicious, divisive and destructive Thatcher years (I am 43) and the horror she enforced on a vast percentage of the British Isles. She doubled VAT (after promising not to before the election), interest rates and inflation at record highs, perpetrated an evil war against Argentina (in order to safeguard her oil rich cronies interests so don't be fooled it was for the greater good of the Nation), decimated British Industry, divided communities, indulged tax payers money for use to find her despicable coward of a son but above all, she left in her wake decades of lost opportunity upon the children of Britain whom she so happily abandoned with the most heinous of education systems.
    A State funeral? Good riddance more like to this evil woman.

    Complain about this comment

  • 83. At 7:32pm on 14 Jul 2008, alanyoung1000 wrote:

    Sorry No. 47, you're the one who doesn't 'get it'.

    One of my greatest regrets in life is that my children lived all their formative years under Thatcherism.

    Hopefully a few honest words from their dad saved their moral life and they seem to have escaped the worst of it!

    Complain about this comment

  • 84. At 7:36pm on 14 Jul 2008, mikewool wrote:

    Given the overwhelmingly hostile comments, could we not have a petition against this daft idea i.e. a state funeral for Thatcher and kill it here and now. I am sure millions would sign.

    Complain about this comment

  • 85. At 7:36pm on 14 Jul 2008, mightykhardie wrote:

    I would have agreed to a state funeral for her but only if it had been held in 1979!

    Complain about this comment

  • 86. At 7:40pm on 14 Jul 2008, grahamarcher wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 87. At 7:50pm on 14 Jul 2008, PeriklesProductions wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 88. At 8:03pm on 14 Jul 2008, doleczech wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 89. At 8:13pm on 14 Jul 2008, Mr_mickey-dripping wrote:

    What was the name of the individual or organization that floated this one...?
    I could go on forever about why it's very very silly. She did make policy decisions re the Falklands -that sent out clear signals to the Argentine Junta that Britain considered the islands an 'expense too far'. She made economy cuts such as de-commissioned one of the two support vessels that patrolled the waters around the the Falklands and South Georgia, besides the other 'signal' mentioned above. As I say, I, nay we, could go on all night why she was a total fraud. Soundbites and a weak servile Tory Party kept her on the Grantham Throne ...and by the way, before I go, it was 'Robertism', why besmirch the name Thatcher, a simple Rugby Line Judge (who, by the way made a fortune out of investing in the mafia-run New York State Waste Dept.). What a family! Not so much a State Funeral as a State Mockery.

    Complain about this comment

  • 90. At 8:13pm on 14 Jul 2008, Bucklie wrote:

    For a start we were lumbered with this vicious woman even though on every occasion when she was "elected" under our electoral system around 60%, of those who actually voted, voted AGAINST her; and she never had the support of ore than 32% of the total electorate.

    OK that's the way we "elect "all our governments. But if the absurdity of this system was ever highlighted it was by putting this woman in power for nearly two decades to ram her greed is good policies down our throats , even though the majority had voted against her.

    State funeral !- who on earth suggested this?

    Complain about this comment

  • 91. At 8:18pm on 14 Jul 2008, maggiethemurder wrote:

    Wedo think we deserve a state funeral.

    Complain about this comment

  • 92. At 8:23pm on 14 Jul 2008, Fifi wrote:

    Does everyone who cares know about the party in Trafalgar Square...?

    I say this purely in the spirit of communication!

    Complain about this comment

  • 93. At 8:29pm on 14 Jul 2008, maggiethemurderer wrote:

    We find all this comment in very poor taste.

    Complain about this comment

  • 94. At 8:34pm on 14 Jul 2008, 45thStuart wrote:

    My first reaction to the question was "What?". My second was (like many others already posted) to quote dear old Elvis ("When England was the whore of the world, Margaret was her Madam") and shout "NO!" very loudly.
    Having taken the time to read all of the blog entries, we clearly have a choice: either a state funeral matched by street parties to celebrate, with perhaps a compilation CD of anti-Thatcher songs and balanced reporting by the BBC on the day; or quietly drop the idea as plain daft!
    Perhaps we could hold a referendum about it...?

    Complain about this comment

  • 95. At 8:37pm on 14 Jul 2008, sweetmrbean wrote:

    Judging by many posts one would think that Mrs T was a dictator. After all she had been voted in three times. Personally I do not care if she receives a grand sending off or not-I would save the money and give it to her foundation.

    Complain about this comment

  • 96. At 8:38pm on 14 Jul 2008, Fifi wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 97. At 8:46pm on 14 Jul 2008, thompsonB1 wrote:

    Margaret Thatcher most certainly should not be given a State Funeral.

    We are all paying a very high price for her rule. OK she was upset by Arthur Scargill - I am no fan of his either (No nor should he be given a State Funeral!) but she destroyed our coal industry deliberately to spite him. If she was a really skilled statesperson, she would have kept a big coal industry going for the sake of National Security rather than leave us at the mercy of the Middle East and Russia. It was her also who precipitated the "Dash for Gas" in the power generation sector, and so increased the demand for natural gas that the price to us all has rocketed and again left us very heavily reliant on imports.

    Winston Churchill was a great wartime leader who saved us from oblivion. Thatcher did much to destroy our nation and or national (Energy) security and point us at oblivion. It would be an insult to Churchill to give her the level of pomp and circumstance the nation gave to him. And yet another instance of politicians back slapping one another - both in life and beyond!

    Complain about this comment

  • 98. At 8:54pm on 14 Jul 2008, maggiethemurderer wrote:

    sweetmrbean 95

    We were not voted in. The most votes we ever received was 47.8 percent and the lowest 34 percent of the votes cast. We proudly ruled without a mandate for 10years and crushed socialism just like our friend Mr. Pinochet

    Complain about this comment

  • 99. At 8:55pm on 14 Jul 2008, Mr_mickey-dripping wrote:

    Then perhaps...following on immediately behind there would be a second State Funeral for the 'UK Legacy'.

    Complain about this comment

  • 100. At 8:57pm on 14 Jul 2008, chivalrousBabyboomer wrote:

    I think that in keeping with her policies any funeral should be privatised or sponsored. I think that a big funeral held at St Paul's or Westminster sponsored by Tescos would bring the curtain down on her life with the appropriate dignity. Who knows, maybe Macdonalds or WalMart would be the sponsor!

    Complain about this comment

  • 101. At 9:00pm on 14 Jul 2008, gspuddy wrote:

    There is a petition on the governments
    petitions.pm.gov.uk web site asking to :-

    grant a state funeral to the "Last Tommy", to be held at Westminster Abbey, so that we may properly honour him and all his fallen comrades.

    Now that would really be worth the £5M that is estimated it would cost "US" the tax payer.

    To honour a man as representative of a whole nation of men who gave thier life for a common good.

    Much more deserved than the money grabbing, selfish, wizened, old witch that the nation will only remember for the pain she brought to this country.


    Complain about this comment

  • 102. At 9:04pm on 14 Jul 2008, Oreste wrote:

    Let her die in peace.
    She has all hell to pay......when she gets there.

    Complain about this comment

  • 103. At 9:10pm on 14 Jul 2008, Fifi wrote:

    My modded comment at 96 consisted of a list of dance steps from the ballroom, Scottish Country and tap disciplines.

    Followed by the observation...

    "Just practising!"

    ;o)

    Complain about this comment

  • 104. At 9:11pm on 14 Jul 2008, Fifi wrote:

    Oh, I think there might have been some ballet in there as well.

    No wonder I was moderated!!

    Complain about this comment

  • 105. At 9:24pm on 14 Jul 2008, designersocialist wrote:

    The State funeral sounds like a marvellous idea. Wellington got one for saving us from Napoleon, Churchill saved us from Hitler and he got one. Let's see, Margaret Thatcher saved us from.....Arthur Scargill. Surely qualification enough?

    Without her success we might still have a coal industry, a steel industry and perhaps even a car industry.

    Complain about this comment

  • 106. At 9:33pm on 14 Jul 2008, Stewart_M wrote:

    The only reason for a state funeral is so we can all have a day off work. But I see no reason why Thatcher deserves one.

    Fifi, I'll happily practice my dance steps.

    Complain about this comment

  • 107. At 9:36pm on 14 Jul 2008, Fifi wrote:

    Stewart (105) : You'll be OK with "shuffle-ball change-shuffle-tap" but don't try any of the ballet moves expressed in Froggish!

    I look forward to linking arms with you in Traffy Square...

    Complain about this comment

  • 108. At 10:14pm on 14 Jul 2008, Russell-Thurgau wrote:

    It seems that plenty of people are utterly against the idea of Margaret Thatcher receiving a State Funeral. I sincerely hope that the Mail was simply flying a kite, which has now been shot down in flames. As she and her revolution are, in my opinion, responsible for many of the ills now affecting the country, it would be utterly inappropriate.

    On a broader point, I do not think that any Prime Minister should, under normal circumstances, be ever considered for a State Funeral. In this country, a Prime Minister is normally the head of one particular political party, so not representative of the country as a whole. Churchill was an obvious exception, since his wartime government was not party political, and his State Funeral was in recognition for his work as leader during World War II. He would never have been considered for such an honour on the basis of his times as Prime Minister in the 1950s.

    Complain about this comment

  • 109. At 10:26pm on 14 Jul 2008, cannedpee wrote:

    After the state she left this country in, the LAST thing we should be considering for Margaret Thatcher is a State Funeral.
    When she pops her cloggs (and I sincerely hope it won't be too long now), just give me bell, and I'll gladly pick up her remains and drop her off at the local tip where she can join the rest of the rubbish!

    Complain about this comment

  • 110. At 10:37pm on 14 Jul 2008, ianhin wrote:

    State funeral? A national holiday would be more appropriate. How about street parties, like in 1977, but with black and red bunting?

    Complain about this comment

  • 111. At 10:41pm on 14 Jul 2008, sacrebleu1 wrote:

    NO.

    But what about a state funeral (albeit belatedly, now) for our Coal industry, the profit-making high quality British Steel and Society (as in there's no such thing as...)

    Complain about this comment

  • 112. At 10:55pm on 14 Jul 2008, westyorkshirebob wrote:

    I would willingly stump up my tax payers shilling towards Margaret Thatcher's State Funeral on one condition. The condition being that a direct quotation from her be writ large upon her headstone so that future generations would be unable to forget her true nature. My chosen quote would be "They don't give a damn! how apalling! That's one of the problems with democracy today!" Spoken on 01/07/1989 in frustration that Jimmy Knapp's RMT had voted overwhelmingly for a series of one day National Rail Strikes in a legal Secret Ballot under Tory Union Laws following 6 successive below inflation annual pay awards, and furthermore Mr. Knapp was convincingly defeating the government in the contest for public opinion on the strikes. Mrs. Thatchers truest, deepest soul laid bare in 3 crucial sentences. This quote must be available somewhere in the BBC's sound archives. Please find it and play it!

    Complain about this comment

  • 113. At 10:59pm on 14 Jul 2008, zombizi wrote:

    I (drunkenly) suggested to my partner that if a state funeral were to happen I would douse myself in over-priced petrol and self immoliate...she said she would, for her part, participate in a peaceful protest. It's the classic pincer movement - abandon plans now!

    Complain about this comment

  • 114. At 11:08pm on 14 Jul 2008, ianhin wrote:

    On the other hand when I thought she'd died I thought it would be worth cracking open a bottle or two. On the third hand though, they do say the good die young, so she's likely to be around for a few centuries yet, like Davros with a perm. and a handbag.

    Complain about this comment

  • 115. At 11:28pm on 14 Jul 2008, jonnie wrote:

    I think we should keep this thread rolling and send the comments to Number 10 for a reaction?

    Complain about this comment

  • 116. At 11:33pm on 14 Jul 2008, scottyPie2 wrote:



    http://www.myspace.com/thatchersdeadparty

    Complain about this comment

  • 117. At 00:12am on 15 Jul 2008, jonnie wrote:

    I'm shocked at the levels of venom that is spouting from the Radio 4 listeners on this one.

    Even Marjorie Doors from fat-fighters has never stooped to the level of some of the comments!

    **When she pops her cloggs (and I sincerely hope it won't be too long now)

    **A blag bag and a wheelie bin would be more appropriate.


    **I don't care what they do with the body, just so long as they make sure she's DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!

    **a state funeral if she can be taken to Sellafield and chucked in with the waste. I MIGHT EVEN TURN OUT just to make sure she had finally gone.

    - - - -

    Anyone would think the topic is Myrah Hindley or a serial murderer being discussed?

    No - she shouldn't have a state funeral, however I certainly wouldn't wish her dead.

    As for Billy Bragg - he lost some credibility when he said she wasn't a good parliamentarian.

    Complain about this comment

  • 118. At 00:48am on 15 Jul 2008, jonnie wrote:

    A clip from Nationwide 1981.

    Margaret Thatcher gets a grilling from a member of the public over the Belgrano.

    Sue Lawley does an admirable job.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWOy23MLY1I

    Complain about this comment

  • 119. At 09:43am on 15 Jul 2008, Tom_Harrop wrote:

    Has anyone asked Mrs Thatcher if it's what she wants?

    Complain about this comment

  • 120. At 09:43am on 15 Jul 2008, David_McNickle wrote:

    Thatcher was a better politician than Bragg is a singer.

    Complain about this comment

  • 121. At 09:49am on 15 Jul 2008, MrCableguy wrote:

    As an avid fan of 'pm' and Eddie's interviewing skills, I was disappointed at the balance of the interview with Billy Bragg and A. N. Other. (sorry, didn't catch his name)
    Whether or not Maggie is entitled to a state funeral, I'll leave for another day. My issue is that while Billy Bragg was supported in his old stlye left wing rant and not challenged by Eddie at all, the token supporter of the State Funeral idea was constantly critisized if not mocked for his views.
    For those of us that remember the 'winter of discontent' and Labour under Michael Foot 'balance' should mean 'balance' and not be an excuse for a presenter's politics to be aired.

    Complain about this comment

  • 122. At 09:59am on 15 Jul 2008, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    David (120):

    Like Bob Dylan, Billy Bragg is a far better songwriter than singer. As for Lady Thatcher being a good politician, it very much depends on what you beleive makes a good politician.

    If your definition includes improving the lot of a minority at the expense of the majority, destroying heavy industry in favour of soft services (which traditionally have weaker and less troublesome unionisation), and alienating large portions of the electorate, then yes, she was a good politician.

    The only good thing IMO she did was getting rid of free milk - I don't like the stuff and was quite glad when I was able to stop drinking it every morning at school. ;o)

    Complain about this comment

  • 123. At 10:20am on 15 Jul 2008, Mr-Sharp wrote:

    To all the bleating liberals on this thread. We haven't forgotten Jeremy Thorpe and his contribution to British politics have we?

    Complain about this comment

  • 124. At 10:30am on 15 Jul 2008, newnickiG wrote:

    I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing when I heard that Thatcher had resigned as PM back in 1990, as an active political campaigner at the time (anti poll tax movement, Anti - Apartheid etc), it felt like a real victory.
    I now spend my working life mopping up the damage caused by her; working in the homelessness field; a situation exacerbated dur to lack of affordable housing caused by her 'Right to Buy' policy which dessimated social housing stocks in this country
    Therefore I too will be dancing upon news of her demise, maybe it would be an apt occasion to attempt the worlds longest conga record!

    Complain about this comment

  • 125. At 10:48am on 15 Jul 2008, tannvic wrote:

    its a great idea for thatcher to have a state funeral, - in Moscow - today!!

    Complain about this comment

  • 126. At 10:52am on 15 Jul 2008, Fifi wrote:

    I am more miffed than I expected to be about my missing 96 comment. It was expressed in a far lighter tone than many of the other comments that have remained, and cannot possibly have given offence or incited others to do anything naughty.

    Mods... consider yourselves on a warning. Much more of this heavy-handed approach and you may find a mutiny on your hands.

    (And no, there isn't a smiley-face to sign off with.)

    Fifi

    Complain about this comment

  • 127. At 10:54am on 15 Jul 2008, Bucklie wrote:


    MrCableguy

    'balance' should mean 'balance' .

    Indeed it should! And we should start by observing that in 1983 for example Thatcher had a huge overall majority of 144 which enabled her to continue ramming her malign policies down the throats of the majority. However, her majority only arose from the fact that while the LibSDP Party got more than a quarter of all votes cast, which should have given them - under any reasonably representative electoral system - around 160 seats, they in fact got a mere 23. Much the same was true of all her other "victories"

    This phoney origin as prime minister (the same is true of all prime minsters and governments under our antediluvian system) and the vicious policies it enabled her to implement are no basis for giving her a state funeral. A "balance" of judgment clearly demands otherwise if only because such a funeral would generate absolute outrage amongst the MAJORITY who suffered under her elective dictatorship

    Complain about this comment

  • 128. At 11:08am on 15 Jul 2008, Froggersfroat wrote:

    Youthful experience with Christopher Lee and Hammer films leads me to question if you can successfully bury the un-dead, with or without State involvement.

    Complain about this comment

  • 129. At 11:36am on 15 Jul 2008, mittfh wrote:

    Given the attitude of the majority of comments here, how about we reintroduce a one-off spectacle of hanging, drawing and quartering her? (Cue evil grin and manic laughter)

    Additionally, auction off spaces along the route, and donate the proceeds to the various charities that deal with her victims...
    (Reprise grin and laughter)

    (Before you ask, I *am* in a weird mood today...)

    Complain about this comment

  • 130. At 12:26pm on 15 Jul 2008, jonnie wrote:

    That's a very weird comment Mittfh!

    Oh just re-read your speil -- you are in a weird mood.

    Complain about this comment

  • 131. At 1:44pm on 15 Jul 2008, Perplexed_of_Barnet wrote:

    To David McNickle:

    I don't HAVE to listen to Billy Bragg singing; I had no alternative but to be governed by Thatcher. To my eternal shame, the first time she became PM I voted Conservative, but I rapidly realised that I could not reconcile Thatcherism ("The devil take the hindmost") and Christianity ("Love thy neighbour) and since then have looked for someone more suitable to vote for. Not Labour any more though.

    Complain about this comment

  • 132. At 1:52pm on 15 Jul 2008, royalmilkweed wrote:

    In 1970 I coined the phrase Margaret Thatcher Milk Snatcher outraged at her depriving children of their milk. When she became Prime Minister we wrote to her from the refuge in Chiswick asking her what she was going to do for victims of domestic violence. A minion on her behalf replied 'Margaret Thatcher is not interested in women's issues. She was not interested in any human issues. She destroyed the fabric of this country. She ushered in a selfish money seeking attitude declaring 'there is no such thing as society.' She made no attempt to encourage women into her cabinet - the only one she did allow it was quickly discarded as 'not up to the job.' I for one will picket any state funeral there is for her and I bet there will be millions standing with me.

    Complain about this comment

  • 133. At 2:15pm on 15 Jul 2008, arcbish wrote:

    Margaret Thatcher single handedly destroyed the manufacturing base of this country. "Made in Britain" used to mean something. Now it's a joke.

    In addition she turned the professions into a market place and created a society of envy and greed.

    No State Funeral, a quiet cremation.

    Complain about this comment

  • 134. At 2:20pm on 15 Jul 2008, rutheretelly wrote:

    I did not hear the original programme but if this discussion was not started by Mrs Thatcher herself I find it deeply offensive of the BBC to encourage public discussion in this manner.
    I disliked PM Thatcher's policies very much and regularly blame them for many ills but the nature of this discussion lowers us all.
    THIS PERSON IS NOT DEAD.
    Another tasteless dumbing down in my view. Shame on you BBC. We all have layers of identity. Apart from her political life, she is a private person, with family and friends.
    By all means let us debate her political legacy and her character but this is cheap. I suppose it helps up your targets for interaction or something. It just makes me feel our society is very cruel and ageist and has lost any common decency. Journalism? I dont think so.

    Complain about this comment

  • 135. At 2:24pm on 15 Jul 2008, Perplexed_of_Barnet wrote:

    I certainly believe that she should not be granted a state funeral.

    Yes, while she was living in no. 10, we “thrashed the Argies”. The invasion occurred in the first place because the Thatcher government made it clear that, if the Argentineans invaded the Falkland Islands, they would not be resisted. Notwithstanding efforts by her government to emasculate the Navy, our valiant armed forces managed to liberate the residents from foreign occupation.

    Yes, she managed to defeat Arthur Scargill, who was nearly as nasty a character as she was.

    But she
    - took away school milk;
    - ruined large chunks of the British economy;
    - left mining communities destitute;
    - "sold off the family silver" - she privatised great swathes of British business, to finance tax cuts.

    Worst of all, she privatised water, a universal necessity, and now we are all at the mercy of (mostly foreign) water companies).

    Somehow I cannot blame her for privatising the railways, which has manifestly been a monumental cock-up, but that was done but her disciples after they had got rid of her.

    She was not elected directly by the British voter. In our system voters elect only their local MP, not the PM. This is not a presidential system, as it is apparent she and Blair seemed to think. Having said that, only about a third of the electorate voted for Conservative MPs.

    Complain about this comment

  • 136. At 2:32pm on 15 Jul 2008, Ed Iglehart wrote:

    I believe the Nays have it.
    ;-)
    ed

    Complain about this comment

  • 137. At 2:32pm on 15 Jul 2008, terrybeeb wrote:

    A state funeral for Thatcher can't be that good an idea otherwise Murdoch would want to make it "pay for view" which would be fine with me, as I could avoid it.

    Incidentally having just voted against a state funeral on the Guardian website the current voting trend is roughly four to one against.

    Complain about this comment

  • 138. At 2:53pm on 15 Jul 2008, member-of-the-public wrote:

    Now while Margaret Thatcher’s legacy is undoubtably huge, it always strikes me as amazing how much left wing types can blame on her reign. Everything wrong with the world normally, apart from the stuff caused by Bush.
    Now Gordon Brown, clearly trying to appear to a Labour core vote, has spoken out against hate-figure Thatcher, blaming the legacy of ‘Thatcher’s Children’ for the lack of social mobility in today’s Britain.
    We will all remember when he took office as prime minister, Brown invited Thatcher round to number 10 and heaped her with praise, even going so far as to compare himself to her as a ‘conviction politician’. As that claim for Brown looks increasingly thin, so does his praise of Thatcher. Under pressure with social mobility as low as in 1997 and child poverty targets far out of reach, Brown has resorted to the last refuge of a desperate lefty and blamed his faliure on Thatcher.
    Brown, both as a powerful chancellor and now prime minister, as been central to a New Labour project that has ruled for 11 years. This is the same time Thatcher was in power, and surely the time to sort out the negative effects of her legacy was at the start of this period, not now.
    Thatcher inherited an economy in a bad way, dealt with this but there were many casualties along the way, particularly in former mining communities. As a result of Thatcherite de-regulation and global economic conditions the 1990s (post ERM) and 2000s until recently were a time of unprecedented growth, especially in the financial sector, which Brown was quite happy to take advantage of.
    Some may blame that de-regulation for current credit crunch problems, they may even be right, but Brown who did nothing to change that is as guilty as those who originally introduced it. On unemployment, he mentioned figures of 3 million in the 80s, ignoring New Labour’s reclassification, with rising incapacity benefit numbers matching falls in unemployment. As with social mobility, New Labour have had 11 years to do something.
    That something involved throwing money at all problems, supported by stealth taxes, reforms were blocked by Brown, an old statist who was happy to see that money spent on managers, targets and paper work, in the belief that if Whitehall told policeman, teachers and doctors what to do that which was decreed would happen. Much of the money was needed but the central control has stifled the natural talents of many on the front line of our public services.
    Mr Brown also tried to encourage a work ethic and education ethic amongst Britons, presumably aimed at the benefit classes. Aspiration is dead, but cannot be revived by speeches alone. Nor by paying families to ‘do the right thing’ by turning up for health checks etc. All that will happen is that central government takes more of all people’s money in taxes. This is then given back to the ‘deserving’ poor (means tested) as tax credits, or used to bribe people to act as government decides, no doubt backed up by council snoopers armed with parenting orders and ASBOs.
    Social mobility, aspiration for one’s children, all are only possible when people, not the state are responsible for their own lives. If you give people more responsibility, some will use it wisely some will not. But infantilising the population, making them dependent in the state, will not encourage them to work for themselves or their children.
    Gordon Brown with this speech shows two deeply held instincts. One, that central dictat is the best way to improve people, and two, that Thatcher is to blame for all societies ills. The old lefty in Brown is revealed but a confused one, who has whole-heartedly adopted Tory tactics when times were good, and now struggles on lost as to what will retain his party power (for that of course is most important).
    When Margaret Thatcher spoke of ‘no such thing as society’ she was saying to people, don’t blame society for all your problems, you, your family, you can do something for yourself. Brown should be saying don’t look to the state for help or blame it for your problems, you can do something for yourself. This November the first children born after the fall of Thatcher will be able to vote. I say to Gordon Brown, there is no such thing as Thatcher, you must take responsibility and solve your own problems.

    Complain about this comment

  • 139. At 4:47pm on 15 Jul 2008, wearrambler wrote:

    Terrybeeb at 137

    Then we had all better hurry over to the Guardian site so that the vote there reflects opinion here!

    Well done to just about everyone ;-)

    Complain about this comment

  • 140. At 5:24pm on 15 Jul 2008, David_McNickle wrote:

    PoB 131, Nobody listens to Bragg sing because he can't sing. I'm not a Thatcher supporter. In fact, I am a long time member of the Lib Dems (and a US citizen). Now that Lembit Opik, he plays a mean harmonica.

    m-o-t-p 138, Could you repeat that?

    Complain about this comment

  • 141. At 5:35pm on 15 Jul 2008, terrybeeb wrote:

    139. At 4:47pm on 15 Jul 2008, wearrambler


    Personally I thought she "played her joker" when she made certain her son was guaranteed a title ...and not the one I would give him.

    Complain about this comment

  • 142. At 7:20pm on 15 Jul 2008, Liz_Dulwich wrote:

    In no way should Margaret Thatcher be accorded a state funeral. ThatcherISM is the cause of society being what it is today - selfish, self-centred, lacking in manners, arrogant, breeding a mentality which has led to violence, introspection and a general lack of consideration for one another.

    Complain about this comment

  • 143. At 8:07pm on 15 Jul 2008, talkingback wrote:

    Imagine my surprise: I was driving home when I heard ‘Maggie Thatcher’ and ‘state funeral’ in the same breath! I thought immediately of Elvis Costello’s song ‘Tramp the Dirt Down’ and wanted to listen to it again. I notice a few others have mentioned the same song. It described beautifully how I felt about her and the Tory government, and what they did to Britain over 18 years. No way should she be remembered with respect. This controversial suggestion has finally moved me to blogging on the Beeb.

    Complain about this comment

  • 144. At 8:34pm on 15 Jul 2008, MinusOne wrote:

    If Pinochet were still around he might have liked to come to such a funeral. Perhaps some neo-cons from the USA might like the idea. But despite Maggie’s frighteningly significant support in this country, few here would deem it appropriate.

    To qualify for a state funeral one should be a statesman who commands universal support in Britain and respect around the world. One should have achieved some boon for humanity.

    In my view Mrs T. fails to qualify on any of these grounds

    Complain about this comment

  • 145. At 9:09pm on 15 Jul 2008, Jon Sibbald wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 146. At 08:03am on 16 Jul 2008, penny-plain wrote:

    Thatcher is the last person in Britain to deserve a state funeral.

    Britain has still not recovered from her divisive policies.
    She turned a generation into selfish, money-grubbing materialists. She took us into an unnecessary war just to boost her popularity. She sold off our national assets like the railways and disposed of essential social housing. No one who lived through her premiership will forget the footage of police fighting the miners or the poll tax riots.

    No wonder they need police to line the streets - to stop people throwing rotten tomatoes rather than flowers.

    There is no justification for a state funeral. She should have a quiet private funeral like her predecessors.

    Complain about this comment

  • 147. At 12:49pm on 16 Jul 2008, mwhouse wrote:

    133. At 2:15pm on 15 Jul 2008, arcbish wrote:

    No State Funeral, a quiet cremation.


    Sorry, arcbish, but some of us have been queueing for a VERY long time to dance on her grave. Cremation is out of the question!

    Complain about this comment

  • 148. At 1:56pm on 16 Jul 2008, singingdaveparry wrote:

    As long as we all get the day off they can throw her a to a pack of wild dogs, which would be highly appropriate.

    Complain about this comment

  • 149. At 2:20pm on 16 Jul 2008, mittfh wrote:

    Jonnie (118): the one clip of Maggie I always think of was the one on the Saturday morning children's programme, where she was given a right bashing by a caller several years below voting age...

    Meanwhile, given the number of comments referring to the Falklands conflict, when she does eventually go, how about a sea burial? Perhaps even over the Marianas Trench...

    In reality, give her an ordinary service, then bury her in an ordinary churchyard. I don't think many people would appreciate her lying under Westminster Abbey, or any other prominent London location.

    Complain about this comment

  • 150. At 5:46pm on 16 Jul 2008, David_McNickle wrote:

    singingdave 148, (I can call you dave, can't I?) Will you be singing at Thatch's funeral?

    Complain about this comment

  • 151. At 8:58pm on 16 Jul 2008, RJMolesworth wrote:

    maggiethemurder @93

    Are you the real Maggie? The murderer of those people on that island?

    Complain about this comment

  • 152. At 09:57am on 18 Jul 2008, jpajit8 wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 153. At 3:08pm on 18 Jul 2008, Iveandco wrote:

    The majority of the above comments say it all for me - I only wish to suggest some additional music for the funeral -
    'DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD,
    THE WITCH IS DEAD, THE WITCH IS DEAD, DING DONG THE WICKED WITCH IS DEAD; SHE'S GONE WHERE THE GOBLINS GO, BELOW BELOW BELOW,' ETC. (THE WIZARD OF OZ)

    Complain about this comment

  • 154. At 4:36pm on 18 Jul 2008, jpajit8 wrote:

    Difficult to get heard. So I'll try...

    THE FIRST SATURDAY AFTER *'THE NEWS'*, 6PM, TRAFALGAR SQUARE.

    Peace, love, sugar, spice and all things nice. X

    Complain about this comment

  • 155. At 5:54pm on 18 Jul 2008, JamieCashMan wrote:

    So Billy Bragg thinks that the mark of a good politician is the amount of snappy quotes they leave behind? We all like a quote, but surely it's good policy that we should really value, and she had plenty of that. The idea anyone would seriously deny any ex PM a state funeral is crazy. Typical of Bragg-style, O-Level leftism.

    Complain about this comment

  • 156. At 8:02pm on 20 Jul 2008, jpajit8 wrote:

    (All the comment 'rules' are designed to silence all perceived threats to the convention of the neo-liberal agenda. Links are educational; no one here uses foul or abusive language and people with 'O' levels have the right to be heard as much as any other. In democratic terms, as the majority, even more so whether you like it or not. Peace). X

    Complain about this comment

View these comments in RSS

BBC iD

Sign in

BBC navigation

BBC © 2014 The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.