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'The real deal' 10 years on - David Moyes at Everton

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Phil McNulty | 14:12 UK time, Monday, 12 March 2012

David Moyes will have related to the plight of a young manager wrestling to imprint his philosophy on a dressing room populated with experienced and powerful personalities as Andre Villas-Boas was sacked by Chelsea.

Moyes faced the same dilemma when he walked into Everton's Bellefield training headquarters a decade ago - just hours after owner Bill Kenwright took him from the Championship and Preston North End to a battle for Premier League survival.


While 34-year-old Villas-Boas failed to last 10 months at Chelsea, Moyes - four years older when he arrived at Goodison Park - is celebrating 10 years in charge and his stock as a managerial commodity has rarely been higher.

There is only one chance to make a first impression and Moyes was inheriting a squad from Walter Smith that contained senior figures such as Duncan Ferguson, David Weir, Kevin Campbell, Alan Stubbs, David Unsworth, Thomas Gravesen - plus the maverick and soon-to-be-elsewhere talents of David Ginola and Paul Gascoigne.

David Moyes

David Moyes was appointed Everton manager in 2002. Photo: PA

Moyes, however, made an instant and lasting impact that saw him win the respect of his squad and start a time in charge that is regarded by many within the game as the template for over-achievement on a limited budget.

Unsworth got the Moyes reign off to a flying start with a goal 26 seconds into his first game at home to Fulham and he outlines why the Scot was the perfect man for Everton in 2002 - and should be for the next 10 years.

He told BBC Sport: "I am a Preston lad so I'd heard all about what he'd done there before he got to us, having lost the Championship play-off final to Bolton the previous season. You have to remember he was a very young manager walking into what was a senior dressing room at that time with the thought of relegation suddenly rearing its ugly head again.

"I'll always remember it. I was usually one of the first into training because I would do the school run and go straight in. Of course we were all wondering what the new guy would be like.

"It was a Friday and he'd been appointed on the Thursday night. I drove in and looked out of the window and there he was at 8.30am, standing out on the training ground on his own. All the training was set up, mannequins, poles and cones all out. He greeted us coming out on to the training pitch and told us what a great opportunity this was for him at a fantastic club.

"He had come through the divisions alongside Fulham with Preston so there was no big speech, just an introduction and then information. He knew all about Fulham from their days under Kevin Keegan and Jean Tigana, gave us a thorough rundown about how we were going to play and how we would beat Fulham - which we then did.

"It was very impressive and all the lads looked at each other in the changing rooms afterwards and agreed we'd got the real deal here. If you walk into a dressing room like that it can be hard to win respect but he did it right away."

Everton had not so much flirted with relegation but threatened a full-blown embrace with the drop in previous seasons - but under Moyes there has been European football and the one season that brought almost miraculous qualification for the Champions League after Wayne Rooney's sale to Manchester United.

"He did it all himself at the start as well," said Unsworth. "He didn't appoint an assistant although he worked with Andy Holden. He took the lot on to show us he could do it and maybe also to show himself he could do it. He is just an outstanding manager."

Moyes does not have prizes to show for his time at Everton but he has the respect of his peers after being voted Manager of the Year three times. He has reached one FA Cup Final, which he lost to Chelsea in 2009, but has presided over a period of well-being for Everton in the Premier League despite not being provided with serious financial muscle.

The Scot has cut a rejuvenated figure since a January transfer deadline day which brought Rangers' Nikica Jelavic to Goodison Park from Rangers in a £5.5m deal, the return of the highly-influential Steven Pienaar in a loan deal from Tottenham and a deserved victory over then Premier League leaders Manchester City at Goodison Park.

Moyes will aim for his first win at Anfield as the perfect anniversary present when Everton face Liverpool on Tuesday, while Wembley is on the radar once more with a home FA Cup quarter-final against Sunderland.

Unsworth returned to Everton's training ground at Finch Farm recently and revealed: "The place was just buzzing and Moyesy was the same driven, focused person on that day as he was 10 years ago. Let me tell you if you're not doing it for him, either on the training ground or in games, you certainly know about it. There is no messing or pussy-footing around. He instils his own work ethic and players trust him.

"If you want a word to sum him up it is 'focus'. He has incredible attention to detail but one thing people may not realise is that he is a manager who is also a fantastic coach. A lot of credit must go to Bill Kenwright for appointing a 38-year-old at what was becoming a dangerous situation for us at that time.

"I still talk to players such as Leon Osman and Alan Stubbs, who is on the staff there now, and they say he is still the same - out there on the training ground every single day driving people."

Moyes' name has been linked to the Chelsea job vacated by Villas-Boas, with strong talk that he may be Spurs' chosen one should Harry Redknapp take over as England coach.

None of this surprises Unsworth who said: "The Chelsea job has come up, there has been that speculation about Spurs with Harry tipped for England and you have the possibility of jobs at Arsenal and Manchester United coming up in the next few years.

"These jobs are now starting to bubble under. I have been in football 20 years and I would be very surprised if all four clubs do not have David Moyes near the top of their list."

Lifelong Evertonian Unsworth would love to see Moyes remain at his current club and does not under-estimate the importance of the club providing the platform for him to take them forward.

"Everton's biggest signing for the next 10 years will be David Moyes if Bill can get him to stay," he said. "He is that important and has been from the day he walked in."

Comments

Page 1 of 6

  • Comment number 1.

    Nice blog - i am a United fan, and think that we could do a lot worse than looking at Moyes when SAF eventually decides to retire. I just can't see him going to Chelsea, they want a world renowned name to head them up and Moyes is not that - he just quietly goes about his business.

  • Comment number 2.

    So, Mr. McNulty, a blog that's not about Chelsea for a change - at least until Wednesday I presume!. Mind you, I see that you managed to mention Chelsea 5 times in all, even though the article is about the very impressive and dignified David Moyes. You woulldn't be trying to suggest something would you??

  • Comment number 3.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 4.

    If Moyes took over at Spurs, they might have a chance of making the Champions League.

  • Comment number 5.

    David Moyes would be an excellent choice for Manchester United. He would bring them PL glory. British clubs need to forget about the Champions League. Real Madrid, Barcelona and even Bayern Munich have proved in recent seasons that continental football has surpassed British football. The philosophy is different, the players are far more skilful and they have different footballing values.

  • Comment number 6.

    If Moyes had the money Dalglish has spent since returning to Liverpool, Everton would be above their neighbours. I am a Liverpool fan and I wouldn't mind if he came to Liverpool. He could not be any worse than what we have.

  • Comment number 7.

    I think when SAF retires in 2/3years,the only way DM will have a chance of getting the job is if Everton finish 5th or better the next 2 years. Or he needs togo to Spurs in the summer(if 'Arry goes to England),and make them a real contender for the PL with guarenteed Champions league football.

  • Comment number 8.

    Forgot to say,he's done a fantastic job at Everton though. Congratulations.

  • Comment number 9.

    He is a fantastic manager and has proved it over the last decade. He is even brilliant with the media and playing the political game.
    I cant see him staying at Everton unless they can get some investment into the club, and im not talking about a multi billionaire to use the club as his/her play thing but just someone to make them more secure financially.
    Even then, if one of the top teams, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Aresenal, Tottenham offered him a job it would be very difficult to turn down.
    Wherever he goes though he would need time to bed his work ethic into the clubs players and would probably not be as instant a success as he was at the start of his Everton career. Only Man Utd and Aresenal have had patience with their managers in that list.

  • Comment number 10.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 11.

    Great blog Phil. Moyes has done an amazing job given the fact he had had no money to spend. The club have always been in and around the top ten and Goodison Park is traditionally a really tough place to go.
    Just think what sort of job he would do at the likes of City, Chelsea and United? Also as someone mentioned here if he was to leave the People's Club to join Liverpool he would do a far better job than Dalglish has managed if given £100 million to spend and wasted most of it.
    Great job Dave!

  • Comment number 12.

    Should read:-

    he would do a far better job than Dalglish has managed if given £100 million to spend as KD has wasted most of it.

  • Comment number 13.

    It's not that I don't appreciate David Moyes, indeed I agree that he is one of the unsung greats in management these days, but this sudden flurry of praise for him is demeaning. Congratulations, you've made it to 10 years, only now are you worthy of recognition. This blog and the others about David Moyes should have been written years ago.

    I can't think of anyone I would prefer to see at Spurs. Moyes comes with a fantastic work ethic, a record of overachievement without the kind of obscene spending that usually accompanies it these days, and which Spurs simply cannot afford, and he commands genuine respect, rather than the weary, disgruntled appreciation you get for someone like Mourinho.

  • Comment number 14.

    Great achievement for a great manager. There are certainly worse candidates I can think of to take over from Fergie.

    Anyone else seen Dalglish's comments this morning? Kit deals as important as points? He gets more deluded by the day.

  • Comment number 15.

    Wow, I may have to pinch myself......A blog that's not about Chelsea, City, Man Utd or Arsenal or if Liverpool can bring glory???

    Moyes has been excellent at Everton and instrumental at keeping at pace with the rest of the leaders. You could argue he is as influential as Howard Kendall.

    It is such a shame that Moyes does not have the financial backing required to take Everton to the next level. It is intersting to see what would happen if Moyes is given a 30m kitty to spend.

    It is surprising that a club of their stature has not had the right investment. Let's hope they get it sooner rather than later.

  • Comment number 16.

    " This blog and the others about David Moyes should have been written years ago."

    This is only coming about now because the press want to install Harry Redknapp as England manager, so they need to push a replacement to Spurs.

    The fact we are told time and time again that Redknapp is the peoples choice for England, yet when I read the blogs about it here I would say it was 50 / 50 at best, tells a tale in itself.

  • Comment number 17.

    @10
    What are you on about, Dalglish has shown time and time again that he is the greatest manager of all time??????????????????????
    are you serious or has merseyside got something in the water? compared to SAF dalglish is a pimple on the face of world football.

  • Comment number 18.

    I think Moyes has been average at best. His team play dour football. They struggle to score goals despite letting strikers like Saha, Johnson and Yakubu slip through his grasp - all strikers who have scored elsewhere. If you compare him to Rodgers or Lambert, both of whom's teams cost far less than Everton and who both play attractive football, then Moyes looks very poor in comparison. Moyes has been extremely profligate with his transfer funds, has won nothing and lead Everton to mid table obscurity. Distinctly average.

  • Comment number 19.

    must say id love moyes at utd those boots will take some filling when fergie goes so who better than a proven wizard! the man is a legend in his own right. everton dont deserve his class, count yourselves lucky youv had him or youd be plating the rising pheonixs of aldershot today instead of liverpool!! great manager

  • Comment number 20.

    I think Moyes has been average at best. His team play dour football. They struggle to score goals despite letting strikers like Saha, Johnson and Yakubu slip through his grasp - all strikers who have scored elsewhere. If you compare him to Rodgers or Lambert, both of whom's teams cost far less than Everton and who both play attractive football, then Moyes looks very poor in comparison. Moyes has been extremely profligate with his transfer funds, has won nothing and lead Everton to mid table obscurity. Distinctly average.

    why bother commenting? you clearly are a nincompoop!

  • Comment number 21.

    @17,

    Yes I was deadly serious.

  • Comment number 22.

    @ 16: I'm not in favour of 'Arry for England. Give it to Pearce, let him grow into the role for the next WC.

    On topic, Moyes is a total legend, although I do wish he'd drop Tim Cahill for someone who remembers where the goals are. Love TC to bits, but he needs to regain his touch.

    Can't really see DM leaving us any time soon, especially if we manage to secure some investment in the close season.... it will happen....honest.....

  • Comment number 23.

    Only bad word about Moyes, he is clueless in Europe. For that reason I'd want him nowhere near the Man Utd job. I'd rather have an old boy in there.

    He got Everton into the CL, then knocked out of the qualifying, then knocked out of the first round of the UEFA.

    They don't score many goals and don't play the most attractive football, but they've been successful nonetheless. How many other managers have been around for 10 years at a club and kept them punching above their weight? I think Everton have on average never finished lower than 8th?

  • Comment number 24.

    Achievement? What achievement?

    One cup in ten years and mid table medeocrity.

  • Comment number 25.

    @18 because if you knew the game youd know what an achievement 'mid table obscurity' is for a club like everton.

  • Comment number 26.

    @23.At 08:49 13th Mar 2012, eduard_streltsov_ghost wrote:

    "Only bad word about Moyes, he is clueless in Europe"

    David Moyes is tailor made for the technically inept kick-and-rush football played in the UK. He would not be able to manage on the continent or even to manage an English club in European competition.

    Moyes for England manager! He has just proved he has the beating of Saint Harry (who is not guilty of tax evasion) in the EPL.

  • Comment number 27.

    Moyes does a fantastic job, but... imagine how high Everton could finish if they didn't start so terribly every season. He should have a good look at whatever they do for pre-season because it takes them a couple of months to get going!

  • Comment number 28.

    You can ignore dogeared, he thought Starfish Stevie was the best player on the pitch when England played The Netherlands.

  • Comment number 29.

    @18

    It's all well and good saying Lambert and Rodgers have brought far more attractive football to the premiership on a smaller budget but they have only done it for one season. Look at other teams who have stayed up for one season playing good football like Reading.

    If they can stay in the prem for 3 years then you can say they have acheived. Teams always get wise to the new-comers in the second season and thatg is why so many go down in year 2.

    Congrats to Moyes on a great acheivement.

  • Comment number 30.

    The blokes done well however is doomed to mid-table by our elitist league

    In other countries if you do well as a manger, a top club will take a punt on you. E.g. Allegri did well at Calgiari and now at Milan and Del Neri and Gasparrini have both had a crack at the Juve and Inter jobs respectively.

    Sometimes it doesnt work (see Del Neri and Gasperrini) but at least given a chance.

    In the EPL, i can only think of Hughes who was given a chance at a top club by earningin his trade in mid-table

  • Comment number 31.

    @20

    Agree about their 'style' of football. Got to be one of the most boring teams in the PL with their weekly grind.

  • Comment number 32.

    Congratulatios to Gary Neville once again for some very excellet pundrity and post and pre match analyse Sky it seems have found a worthy replacement for Andy Gray.

    Those speculating the next man in charge at OT perhaps should look closer to home it seems GN would be an ideal candidate.

    as for DM, i agree he's not done to bad, but then he has spent his time in a comfort zone where expectation is not very high, he's not a bad lad but can still be a whinging scot.

    PS : Look out Spurs its not your next manager that should be concerning you its............................................................................................................


    Arsenal :)

  • Comment number 33.

    26.At 08:55 13th Mar 2012, It wasnt me A big boy did it and ran away wrote:
    ______________

    Yeah you are correct, he is tailor made for the England role, but being a jock I think it's highly unlikely that he'll take it.

    Interestingly it's odd that Walter Smith failed to make the grade at Everton when he was in charge.

  • Comment number 34.

    I really dont understand all this Moyes love? what has he done? what has he won? yes he hasnt had a lot of money, well neither have a lot of managers.

    people going wild about Moyes being the next United manager, he has 0 champions league experience, 0 experience with title runs, 0 experience with cup wins. When he will have money to spend who knows what he will do with it.

    i dont get all the excitement surrounding him at all. Might as well get Sam Allardyce in at United then, they are the same manager.

  • Comment number 35.

    30.At 08:56 13th Mar 2012, averageBBC_journalist wrote:
    __________________

    I think more english managers need to go abroad to learn more about football. I don't understand why young english managers would rather plod about in the championship rather than manage in a top tier league. Like why on earth did Maclaren choose to go to Forest instead of FC Twente?

    I can't think of many managers that have any experience of management outside England bar Maclaren, Coleman & Adams. Hodgson, but you wouldn't call him a "young" manager.

  • Comment number 36.

    #20 How can I retort to such a well constructed argument?

    #25 Maybe I'm a little older than you but to me Everton are a big club who should not be satisfied with mid table obscurity. Afew years ago Moyes looked the real deal leading Everton to 4th and 5th but since then they have lost their way. Moyes has consistently failed to get the best out of players such as Yakubu & Saha, and now looks second best behind Rodgers, Lambert or even Pardew - none of whom have spent much building better teams.

  • Comment number 37.

    it's hard to assess moyes when he's had no money and no pressure, but he doesn't come across as somone driven to win. rather, he seems ok to settle for meeting low expectations and always having an excuse. he doesn't inspire me at all. the only sense in which he would be a fitting successor to fergie is that he would fit in with our parsimonious owners' spending plans. he certainly hasn't made everton watchable.

  • Comment number 38.

    As an Evertonian, it would be hard to begrudge him going to a club that would give him regular, significant money to spend. The initial devastation would give way to the belief that his potential can't be caged like it currently is.
    There are hints of it, but what is he really capable of?

    I firmly believe that even given £15 million to spend every summer would not only see Everton in a regular Champions League place, but would also see David Moyes happily stay another 10 years.
    I don't think he'd rather have success anywhere else.

    Therefore, it's up to Everton now. The search for investment goes on and there is slightly more positive news coming from the club - a possible shift in tone from Bill Kenwright, the shirt deal with Nike and the unconfirmed approval of Inner Circle Sports to sell the club.

    The words of the club need to come to fruition and I think they know it's becoming much more time critical...

  • Comment number 39.

    I cant believe that people are saying because Moyes has not won everything there is to win with Everton he is not a good manager (ok a slight exaggeration).

    The blokes been a quality manager for Everton and they are lucky to still have him.

  • Comment number 40.

    36.At 09:05 13th Mar 2012, mrs svennis wrote:
    failed to get the best out of players such as Yakubu & Saha, and now looks second best behind Rodgers, Lambert or even Pardew
    _______________

    Fergie failed to get the "best" out of saha, so he must also be useless. Have the likes of yakubu, johnson & saha EVER hit a 20 goal season? I know Johnson did under Dowie, so what, give Dowie the Chelsea job?

    How on earth has Moyes looked "second best" behind Rodgers, Lambert & Pardew. Granted Newcastle are ahead for the time being, but that is this season only. What's to stop the other two promoted teams looking like an Ipswich or Reading?

  • Comment number 41.

    @ 35 ESG

    It's because foreign leagues tend to stick with coaches of that nationality. If you look at the stats, Italian league is dominated by Italian manager, Spanish league by Spanish managers etc. It's only in England that the majority of managers are foreign, mostly because a lot of English managers are still pretty archaic and promote kick-and-rush, physical football. It's starting to change, but there aren't exactly an abundance of top British managers who put technical quality above physicality.

  • Comment number 42.

    There are some teams in EPL that are tough but Moyes's Everton is the toughest
    And as long as Dalglish is Liverpool's manager Everton has a big chance to finish above them every season.I hope they gonna give them lesson tonight
    BIG fan of David Moyes

  • Comment number 43.

    People should be wary about giving a manager millions to spend afterall you only have to look at liverpool to see the disastrous effect giving such sums to a by and large clueless scot, can have, when MR D " tots up his points tally to see where they are " he could findhimself 4th from bottom as for 4th from top, wishful thinking as ever .

  • Comment number 44.

    @36

    Maybe it is because you are older than me that you are living in the past (slightly). The Sky money has changed the premiership and without money to pay the wages never mind the transfer fees for 1-2 decent signings a year leaves you with only being able to make a top 8 position at best.

    Look at the money Liverpool and Spurs shell out every year to finish top 6, granted Spurs have moved on from that now but for years that was there finish position.

    I agree Moyes has lots to prove such as can he handle the pressure of a fanbase that demands a trophy every season or the capabilities of playing every wednesday and saturday due to Europe??

    But in my opinion he deserves our praise for bringing stability to Everton who were relegation candidates nearly every other season durign the 90s.

  • Comment number 45.

    41.At 09:11 13th Mar 2012, The awkward facial hair of David De Gea wrote:
    ________________

    But that's the funny thing, the only coach who has done, Maclaren, has been ridiculed in England!!

    I wouldn't mind Steve Bruce heading out to Turkey. I'm surprised Mark Hughes didn't plump out for a job in Germany as well. I'd just like to see a few more English players & managers explore their abilities rather than remain in the England bubble.

  • Comment number 46.

    43.At 09:17 13th Mar 2012, HAHA CharadeYouAre wrote:
    _____________

    Was a bit of "Wenger Time" from your boys I see........

  • Comment number 47.

    #40 From 2004 to 2007 the Yak averaged 14 goals per season for Portsmouth & Boro. In his first season at Everton he hit 15 but in the 3 subsequent seasons he averaged 3! This season he has 13 for Blackburn. Moyes has had good players but he hasn't been able to utilise them and they have slipped through his grasp.

    You could be right about Norwich & Swansea being another Ipswich but at least they play attractive football. Everton were the first team I saw play a 4-6-0 formation.

  • Comment number 48.

    Achievement? What achievement?

    One cup in ten years and mid table medeocrity.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    So similar to what Kenny will achieve at Liverpool then, only Moyes hasn't had the luxury of wasting, sorry cleverly spending over £100 million.

  • Comment number 49.

    @45 ESG

    McLaren was ridiculed before he went abroad, not because of it. He couldn't have gotten a job in England after his disastrous England reign so went overseas. It would be nice to see more managers get continental experience but I would say it's pretty unlikely for them to get jobs in one of the big European leagues.

  • Comment number 50.

    @48 We All Follow United

    But they got a new kit deal, thats, like, just as important as points! After all, Hodgson got the sack because he just couldn't get the right kit deal for the club, nothing to do with the fact that he wasn't winning enough games....

  • Comment number 51.

    whatever the score tonight, you just know the post-match interviews aren't going to be lighthearted fun. someone will be complaining dourly about something or someone and no one will say "football was the winner".

  • Comment number 52.

    @46

    yes

    Nice to see Howard Webb giving newcastle a chance to get out of thier own half

    :)

  • Comment number 53.

    #50
    There was an interesting stat on Talksport yesterday. Apparently the 20 odd games Hodgson was manager at Anfield and was deemed to have gained such a bad points return he was sacked, in the same time period up to the weekend Dalglish has gained a massive 1 more point despite spending a massive amount more than Woy.

  • Comment number 54.

    @53


    Thats because RH was not good enough, if he had spent 100 million we wouldn't have gained that one point!!!!!!! infact no doubt we would have lost more points, and we wouldnt have had that kit deal!!!!!!!one1111!!!!


    King Kennys Kop!!

  • Comment number 55.

    47.At 09:23 13th Mar 2012, mrs svennis wrote:
    _______________

    But that's the point isn't it? Moyes has always had Everton well drilled defensively and they've generally played only one striker up top. This would mean (unless you're barca) that you're naturally going to score less goals, but be more solid and concede few.

    It's no surprise that Yak managed plenty of goals at Pompey and Boro. Those teams were known more for their attacking football than their defensive stability! At the end of the day, people harp on about Norwich & Swansea but Everton are in the quarters of the FA cup and 8th in the league.

  • Comment number 56.

    49.At 09:27 13th Mar 2012, The awkward facial hair of David De Gea wrote:
    ____________

    But even at England he was trying to explore different tactical games. Everyone ridiculed him because he tried to play wing backs. The reason it didn't come off was because the tactically experienced pros of England had never played the wing back system before!!

    Like I said, I'd like to see Bruce and Hughes leave the shores and cut their teeth elsewhere. I think Bruce would be fine in Turkey, and Hughes' approach would be better served in Germany or Italy.

  • Comment number 57.

    @53 We All Follow United

    I don't understand how Dalglish's reign is seen as anything other than an unmitigated disaster. They've thrown away £100m, damaged their reputation with the handling of the Suarez incident and seem further away than ever to being a title-challenger. He isn't getting the best out of his players at all, just fostering some ridiculous conspiracy mentality that includes opposition keepers all stepping up their games against Liverpool and Patrice Evra being a diabolical mastermind. Don't understand how he is still in a job.

  • Comment number 58.

    52.At 09:35 13th Mar 2012, HAHA CharadeYouAre wrote:
    _____________

    Hahaha! What I was disappointed by was the fact I didn't hear the Brass Band??

  • Comment number 59.

    I can't be the only one who finds the perpetual celebration of Moyes as a bit of a mystery can I?

    There seems to be some sort of received wisdom that he is to be celebrated, but, I don't appear to be in on this wisdom.

    Rather than fawning with platitudes, perhaps someone could put some flesh on the bones and define how Moyes and Everton have overachieved to be so lauded. Ten years worth of premier league income, a couple of big profits on players, the same amount of money spent, 34k a week coming through the turnstiles.

    Don't those raw facts alone merely support that Everton should be mid-table, where, essentially, they always are?

    Is it convenient for Moyes that he hasn't had to deal with higher expectations?

    Is there anything you can say about his Everton tenure other than their style is stubborn and obdurate?

    Don't get me wrong, I like Moyes and think (though don't know) that Everton are fairly well run, but, I'm inclined to think that ten years must result in more than the sum parts of what it has.

  • Comment number 60.

    David Moyes has done superbly well these last ten years.

    It’s frightening to think how much better he would have done had he not had one hand (sometimes both hands) tied behind is back due to an incompetent board not being able to generate the necessary income levels and messing up every opportunity to do so.

    An average of 8th place with a net spend of £2.42m a season is simply phenomenal.

  • Comment number 61.

    @56 ESG

    I read Gary Neville's autobiography, he said McLaren introduced the 352 system the day before the game so of course they were totally unfamiliar with it. There is nothing wrong with tactical experimentation but you can't just expect it to work with no preparation whatsoever.

  • Comment number 62.

    @58

    TFFT!!!!! i would have switched of :)

  • Comment number 63.

    59.At 09:46 13th Mar 2012, MrBlueBurns wrote:
    _____________

    "Don't those raw facts alone merely support that Everton should be mid-table, where, essentially, they always are?" - But they are losing money each season so they should be a club in decline. Also people talk about expectation but look at other clubs that perhaps had a higher expectation than they ought to, Aston Villa, Sunderland, Liverpool & Spurs. They've all gone through periods of stability and decided it was not good enough that was then followed by decline.

    Granted he hasn't won anything, but they're a competitive nonetheless, and you could argue he's achieved more than the likes AVB, Scolari etc.

    Is Arsene Wenger overrated because he's not achieved anything in last 7 years?

  • Comment number 64.

    Wingbacks would actually seem a potentially decent idea for England, with Cole and Johnson (who got only knows why he is still picked, although he has seemed a little better this season from what little I have seen) we have two players who would be more suited to it.

    We have some good central defenders when fit, so it would seem a decent option.

    However as it failed (for whatever reasons) the next man to try it would be laughed out of the job by our great and almighty media.

  • Comment number 65.

    61.At 09:48 13th Mar 2012, The awkward facial hair of David De Gea wrote:
    ___________

    Was it the day before? I thought they had a few days to prepare for it?

    Either way, Maclaren is not as bad as people make out. I think he just needs to stay away from England for a few seasons and build up his knowledge & reputation elsewhere.

  • Comment number 66.

    @65 ESG

    I have no problem with McLaren, good coach, poor man manager it sounds like. I think the egos in the England dressing room were too much for him to cope with, but his record at Middlesbrough and FC Twente is impressive. Maybe he's just suited to teams who aren't expected to do much, as he failed at Wolfsburg and England.

    @64
    Yeah I was wondering whether England should play with wing backs myself. Would be something handy to have in reserve I suppose. Most international sides dont play with 2 strikers though, so the three man defence might be a bit redundant, but we could always play Phil Jones and let him bomb forward when he wants.

  • Comment number 67.

    #63 eduard_streltsov_ghost

    But, that is still part of the received wisdom. Can someone demonstrate to me how the money they have lost has compared to other clubs, how this compares to any debts the club is carrying and how, from 2002 to 2012, what the overall financial movement is, compare that to other clubs and see what has been achieved respectively on the pitch in that time.

    Only then do I think conclusions can be drawn.

    And to compare Everton to Chelsea is just folly, even club to club or Moyes to AVB. Pure hyperbole.

  • Comment number 68.

    60.
    At 09:46 13th Mar 2012, Duncans_Pigeon09 wrote:
    An average of 8th place with a net spend of £2.42m a season is simply phenomenal.
    ________________________________________

    Strangely enough Everton have the 8th biggest turnover as well.

  • Comment number 69.

    67.At 10:07 13th Mar 2012, MrBlueBurns wrote:
    _________________

    You'd have to do a 10 year comparison of clubs' financial statements. But you could argue that with most managers? How would you define success?

    The comparison was already made McNulty. I think it's an apt one that both came in to a "bigger" club as young managers and the contrast to how they have done is quite stark!

    Like I said, to me Wenger is in the same boat as Wenger over the last 7 years.

  • Comment number 70.

    The awkward facial hair of David De Gea

    You sir are the type of fan that would have been calling for Fergie's head in the late 80's. Learn a bit of patience as spending money doesnt gaurantee success as not all transfers work.


    Moyes has done a superb job a Everton, they seem every season to sell one of their top players and he still keeps them grinding out the results. To finish in the tp half this year can be described as nothing more than a success. I do worry about him stepping up to a bigger club as when he has had money his transfers haven't always been a success.

    His greatest talent seems to be Clough like in that he transforms journey men players into top class performers.

  • Comment number 71.

    #67 MrBlueBurns

    This is a very good blog...http://swissramble.blogspot.com/search/label/Everton

    Worth a read anyway but you'll find Everton financial information analysed as well as many other domestic and european clubs.

  • Comment number 72.

    66.At 10:02 13th Mar 2012, The awkward facial hair of David De Gea wrote:
    _______________

    I think his man management may be a bit suspect, whether he's unable to deal with "big" personalities?
    Funny when you look at the two english managers that have achieved the most in Europe, Steve Maclaren & Roy Hodgson!!

    How about England playing 1 defender centrally, 2 full backs, and then 2-3 ball playing holding midfielders? Ie Jones in midfield, but can drop back into defence? Similar to what barca & athletic do with mascherano & javi martinez. I've never seen the point of having 2 at the back when most teams play with one striker up front?

  • Comment number 73.

    #69 eduard_streltsov_ghost

    I think one of the points I am trying to make has just been made a lot better by repo at #68.

    As for Wenger at Arsenal, he has achieved at Arsenal in that they have a style that has won fans and plaudits (sometimes the praise has been overblown, but that is a result of seduction). As I said originally, what is Everton's 'style'?

  • Comment number 74.

    73.At 10:20 13th Mar 2012, MrBlueBurns wrote:
    ____________

    Yeah I saw Repo's post. So would he be a "success" if say they finished 7th?

    Again, what has Wenger achieved? Surely it makes no difference whether you play nice or ugly as long as you win?

  • Comment number 75.

    @70

    Fergie didn't spend £100m odd when he took over! I'm all for patience with managers, but Liverpool set their criteria for success with Hodgson. I agree, not all transfers work out, but you need to have a pretty good success rate; since joining Liverpool, none of the players Dalglish has bought have particularly improved the team. Carroll is awful, Downing has been incredibly poor, Adam is about as poor a replacement for Alonso as you can imagine. Henderson is one for the future so we will let him off for now, and Suarez has been ok if you discount the racism case and the fact it was Comoli who signed him.

    So contrary to what you say, I would not have been clamouring for Fergie to leave. I was clamouring for Hodgson to be given more time!

  • Comment number 76.

    David Moyes is a fantastic manager. He knows against the big teams if he attempts to play expansive football he will get picked off. He gets the best out of mediocre players - P Neville, Heitinga, Osman to name a few and adds that bit of quality necessary to make sure he's within touching distance of the big clubs come the end of the season.

    Factor in the neglegible net spend over the last few years, the poor infrastructure at Everton and the fact that the "big 6" have spent crazy money to maintain their positions, he's the biggest asset Everton have.

    I'd love him to come to United with Fergie upstairs (in the boardroom, not what the rest of you were thinking lol) and an accomplished European coach as his assistant and I think we'll be fine.

    For those of you putting him on a par with Pardew, Rodgers and Lambert - it's easy to be (relatively) successful in one season, to get it done consistency requires real talent. Ask Bolton post Allardyce. Credit where credit due he is a great manager who's been shackled by his loyalty.

    Cup winners in last 10 years:

    Year - PL / FA / League Cup
    2011 - United / City / Birmingham
    2010 - Chelsea / Chelsea / United
    2009 - United / Chelsea / United
    2008 - United / Portsmouth / Spurs
    2007 - United / Chelsea / Chelsea
    2006 - Chelsea / Liverpool / United
    2005 - Chelsea / Arsenal / Chelsea
    2004 - Arsenal / United / Middlesbrough
    2003 - United / Arsenal / Liverpool
    2002 - Arsenal / Arsenal / Blackburn

    Recently, the majority have been the big teams aside from Portsmouth, and we all know what happened there. He's done well to even compete.

  • Comment number 77.

    "Fergie didn't spend £100m odd when he took over!"


    NEITHER HAS KING KENNY!!!!!! His Net Spend (© 2005 - 2012 LFC) has been next to nothing, infact since 2005 LFC's Net Spend (© 2005 - 2012 LFC) has been one of the lowest in the known universe.

    Leave King Kenny Alone

    King Kennys Kop.

  • Comment number 78.

    @72 ESG

    It was either Michels or Sacchi that said you should play 1 defender for each striker, plus one so that you always have a spare man at the back. Makes sense, as if you play one CB and he gets beaten, you have a covering defender. You need players who are very tactically intelligent to know when to drop back into defence and when to step up into midfield, ie Busquets at Barca. Think Jones is a bit young for this at the moment, and isn't disciplined enough positionally.

  • Comment number 79.

    I keep saying we have very good managers/coaches in England. Moyes,O'neil,Lambert,
    Rodgers. But will any of these guys be considered for Chelsea in the summer? The answer is no,they will no doubt go for a foreign manager. Same as when Wenger goes.

  • Comment number 80.

    #74 eduard_streltsov_ghost

    But my point is, and I think THE point should be, why is the received wisdom that Moyes has overachieved, and all the plaudits that seem to come with it, when, if that 8th place point is correct, he he achieved exactly what he should have achieved, no more, no less?

    As for comparisons with Arsenal, I think Arsenal playing nice football is something that could be said to be more than the sum of it's parts and therefore, yes, I think that is an achievement in itself.

  • Comment number 81.

    75.At 10:24 13th Mar 2012, The awkward facial hair of David De Gea wrote:

    Its all releative though. Ferguson did spend big in his first season at Utd but it seems like nothing now but compared to the transfers of today.

    People claiming that Hodgson should have stayed are not actual advocates for him but just using as a stick to beat Liverpool with.
    I will think you will find that most fans were open to giving him a chance to prove himself but the teams performance, not the results, the performance was the worst for a very long time. Under Daglish they have improved and we are actually keeping the ball and passing it and not playing as a long ball team bypassing the midfield.

    The fans started showing their unhappiness by not attending the matches and the board took notice and replaced him with Kenny who has not been perfect at all but we are happy with him.

  • Comment number 82.

    In terms of managers in the PL - I'd place Moyes in the top 3 with Fergie and Wenger. Obviously all the trophy hunting supporters will beg to differ.

    Yes, Moyes didn't do well in Europe but I remember Fergie taking a while to crack it and Wenger's only been to 1 final in his 15 year reign.

    He seems the type who'll adapt and bring a club success in the long run given the tools.

    Whether he'd handle the pressure at a big 4 team can not be gauged yet.

  • Comment number 83.

    77.At 10:34 13th Mar 2012, Jesus the Teddy Bear wrote:

    ------------------

    Hilarious! Kudos. Brilliant.

  • Comment number 84.

    #82 becks-phone-call-went-to-me

    In terms of managers in the PL - I'd place Moyes in the top 3 with Fergie and Wenger.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    By what criteria, what definition, are you making that statement? From what I can see, he is in a top three by longevity only.

    He has the team with the 8th highest turnover and generally, they finish 8th. That's good, but, surely only to be expected isn't it?

  • Comment number 85.

    I would be ecstatic if Moye's was unveiled as the new United manager! to watch the whole thing unravel at United...perfect. Only thing better could be Kenny getting the job!

  • Comment number 86.

    81.At 10:39 13th Mar 2012, clummers wrote:

    ---------------

    To be honest, the very fact that it's opposition fans defending Hodgson is a backhanded compliment in itself.

    He was never suited to Liverpool with his low expectation spin, but that doesn't excuse the way he was treated.

    Dalglish may have brought Liverpool home a trophy but he's had a ridiculous amount of support from the owners and tolerance from the fans when you look at their league performances.

  • Comment number 87.

    "surely it makes no difference whether you play nice or ugly as long as you win?" ghost, seriously... this from a united supporter? this sounds like the kind of thing mourinho would say.

    moyes has a very solid track record... but that is all you can say about him. nothing inspiring, no overachieving, just one of the pack. certainly nothing that demands a step up. he lacks charisma, but at least he's not an idiot like maclaren.

  • Comment number 88.

    85.At 10:45 13th Mar 2012, signori wrote:

    I am holding out for Mark Hughes. A club to match his ambition!

  • Comment number 89.

    @81 clummers

    I still don't see why Liverpool fans are happy with Dalglish though. To my eyes, their football hasn't improved much; they played well against Arsenal and deserved to win but that game aside, I haven't seen them play well in ages. They can't score goals either, which seems to be a pretty key component of exciting football. As for the whole non-long ball thing, Dalglish signed Andy Carroll! When Suarez was banned, they reverted into exactly that - a long ball team. Now Suarez is back, they have a striker who can dribble and win penalties, but not actually score, and whats more Dalglish has dropped Carroll again (can't blame him, but he was at least showing glimpses of form before he was dropped - not going to do his confidence much good).

  • Comment number 90.

    80.At 10:37 13th Mar 2012, MrBlueBurns wrote:
    ________________

    Right, Here's a list of League positions since he took over....

    2003 - 2004 - 17th
    04/05 - 4th
    05/06 - 11th
    06/07 - 6th
    07/08 - 5th
    08/09 - 5th
    09/10 - 8th
    10/11 - 7th

    If anything they're in slight decline from previous years but you can attribute that to the fact that Man City and Spurs have spent vast sums to get ahead!

    I'd say he deserves some plaudits.

    Case point, Holloway played attractive football but ultimately Blackpool were relegated. Stoke played "boring" football but stayed up. I see what you're saying and whether this is a case of personal preference, but I'd rather utd play boring and win the league than play exciting and lose.

  • Comment number 91.

    OH GOD i see 'NET SPEND' is back hahahaha

  • Comment number 92.

    Re Moyes in Europe, remember that we missed out on the CL group stages due to some very questionable refereeing, and Colina retired directly after the match.

    The only issue we have had in Europe has been the lack of depth, which leads us back to lack of funds.

  • Comment number 93.

    78.At 10:34 13th Mar 2012, The awkward facial hair of David De Gea wrote:
    ______________

    Yeah I think it was Michels. Sacchi likes to play zonal marking and have a high line playing the offside trap. Midfield & Attack collectively press to close down space.

    Depending on how you are aligned and tactically mature, you can play with one defender if you play a high line and pressing game. The two holding players can then cover when necessary. Obviously this would be too sophisticated for England, but was a suggestion. Makes you think why Capello was a failure, he was working with players that had as much tactical nous as a pub player!

  • Comment number 94.

    85.At 10:45 13th Mar 2012, signori wrote:
    I would be ecstatic if Moye's was unveiled as the new United manager! to watch the whole thing unravel at United...perfect. Only thing better could be Kenny getting the job!
    ________________

    Likewise if he gets the City job!! I can't see either happening to be honest.

    It'll either be Mourinho or Giggs / Solksjaer depending whether Fergie steps up to DoF or not.

  • Comment number 95.

    88.At 10:46 13th Mar 2012, clummers wrote:

    HAHA :) i heard he is wanting to manage Universe FC owned by Richard Branson.

  • Comment number 96.

    hodgson was never suited to liverpool, he doesn't have the personality. with fulham or west brom, he can mildly overachieve, but quietly (although he should be driving a cab). dalglish isn't a particularly good manager, but he exists in a forgiving bubble. that bubble might burst if they find themselves in the bottom half of the table in a couple of weeks.

  • Comment number 97.

    #79 ger1eng5

    Unfortunately for England, as much as your comment is correct - "I keep saying we have very good managers/coaches in England. Moyes,O'neil,Lambert,
    Rodgers." - none of them are English. For your national team to improve in the long run, you need to bring through more quality English coaches and maybe this comes back to a previous poster's comment on English managers learning their trade abroad.

    All this coming from a Scotsman whose national side are currently not the best they've ever been yet we have a loads of very good Scottish managers in the game.

  • Comment number 98.

    94.At 10:51 13th Mar 2012, eduard_streltsov_ghost wrote:

    the good thing is we have a manager who hasnt been on the verge of stepping down for years and we havnt had Moyes being odds on favouraite to be the next manager for us, where as united has. I really hope you get Moyes.

  • Comment number 99.

    @16 I doubt McNulty wants Moyes to be Spurs' manager, because he's a blue. He hides it well though, just ask Joe Royle!

  • Comment number 100.

    87.At 10:45 13th Mar 2012, jem wrote:
    _______________

    Well let me put it to you this way. I used to love the eurpean games in the 90s where we played "you score one, we score one" and it's exciting when that tactic pulls off like in the 99 treble winning season. However I also remember being annoyed at the schoolboy defending versus they likes of Madrid. I remember the two legs when Ronaldo scored a hat trick at OT, clapping him off the pitch but being annoyed we conceded 3 at home.

    Compare this to recent seasons where we've been more defensive in europe. We've won a CL and had 2 more finals appearances, where had it not been for playing one of the best teams of the generation (if not ever) we would have had two more.

    Granted I'd like us to play attacking football and win. But if I had to choose one of the two, I'd rather win.

 

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