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Keane running out of answers at Ipswich

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Paul Fletcher | 20:56 UK time, Sunday, 28 November 2010

Carrow Road

The chant "There's only one Keano" reverberated around Carrow Road midway through the second half of the match between Norwich and Ipswich on Sunday afternoon.

Once upon a time it could be heard at Old Trafford, drifting down from the Stretford End, as Manchester United supporters eulogised their on-field leader.

At Norwich on Sunday, it was an ironic taunt from the home fans as they celebrated their 4-1 victory over Keane's Ipswich in the first East Anglian derby since April 2009.

The chants "Keano give us a wave" and, predictably, "You're getting sacked in the morning" both followed.

The Tractor Boys manager stood stock still on the edge of his technical area as the home fans mocked him. I suspect there was more chance of the Irishman stripping naked in the freezing cold than obliging the home fans by waving in their direction.

But there is no doubt that as the temperatures continue to plummet and the country is plunged into a deep freeze, this is shaping up to be a long and difficult winter for Keane and his ailing team.

In his defence, he is having to deal with an injury crisis that has robbed him of players such as Connor Wickham, Gareth McAuley, Tom Eastman, Mark Kennedy and Luke Hyam.

But even so, the optimism created by a sound start to the season that saw Ipswich lose just once in their opening eight games has now given way to the despondency of four straight league defeats, including the heaviest reverse Town have suffered against Norwich.

And any Ipswich supporters seeking solace from their manager after Sunday's defeat will not have felt much comfort when Keane said: "We don't look like a team that is capable of going on a good run."

It was a breathtakingly honest assessment from the Town manager - and on the evidence at Carrow Road it is hard to disagree. His team were awful in defence, with Norwich and in particular hat-trick hero Grant Holt smashing through the Ipswich backline with disturbing ease and regularity.

Roy KeaneKeane's outlook on Ipswich's plight is becoming increasingly forlorn. Photo: Getty Images

Holt's first goal came after he caught Darren O'Dea in possession, while Damien Delaney later saw red for his desperate challenge after the Norwich striker had robbed him of the ball. Keane pointed to the individual errors that are costing his side every week, while adding that he had not hammered his players because they already feel bad enough about the situation.

Yet it was not just the individual mistakes that cost Ipswich. It must be hugely concerning for their supporters to see a back four that seemed unable to line up in a row - it was more of a dog leg than a straight line. Henri Lansbury's brilliant through ball led to Holt's second goal but it nonetheless exposed a central defensive duo that were way too far apart.

While both teams had 11 players on the pitch, the gap between Ipswich's defence and their four players in midfield was so narrow that it left strike duo Jason Scotland and Tamas Priskin far too isolated.

Priskin was lively and there was a period in the first half with the score at 1-1 when the game briefly appeared to be in the balance but, overall, it was a shoddy performance from a Town side that looked short of confidence. Keane has recently insisted that his team was still making progress, but he was less enthusiastic after watching Sunday's display.

"For a month now I have been saying that we are only a few points off the play-offs," added Keane. "But the gap is only getting wider, we have a tough run of games coming up and we have a lot of injuries."

While Norwich under the impressive leadership of Paul Lambert climbed to fifth after their victory, Ipswich have slipped to 16th and are now six points off the top six.

Perhaps most worryingly, Keane looked like a manager who was increasingly short of answers. He had a resigned look about him that I am told resembled his forlorn demeanour towards the end of his time as Sunderland manager.

"I analyse my position every single day and I am just going to try my best to turn this around," added the 39-year-old. "You have to keep going."

Keane was targeted by the Norwich fans on Sunday but in recent weeks he has been booed by his own supporters.

He started with two strikers at Carrow Road but in previous games has often selected a lone frontman - a tactic that has not gone down well with large sections of the Town fanbase. The manager's recent comment that fans should not worry themselves too much about tactics or systems is hardly going to bring them back on board.

There was plenty of bravado from Ipswich supporters on the train to Norwich before the match, especially when any Canaries fans appeared in our carriage, but the discussions I overheard about Ipswich's current position and form was decidedly downbeat. They have now seen their team lose seven of their last nine fixtures.

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Keane fumes over Ipswich errors

Ipswich chief executive Simon Clegg recently insisted that "Roy is taking us where we want to get to". Not at the moment he isn't. Keane arrived in April 2009 with the mission of taking Town to the Premier League but those hopes foundered as his team went 14 league games without a victory at the start of the 2009-10 campaign. And as Keane admitted on Sunday, the current Ipswich side seem some way from challenging for a place in the play-offs this time around.

When asked if Clegg's assurances that his job was safe made his task easier, the Irishman deadpanned: "We have heard that before from clubs about managers. I will take that with a pinch of salt."

The Norwich fans are correct in one sense - there really is only one Keano. He is an introspective character with an impenetrable gaze. Remote and unapproachable, a man of huge pride who will stand by his own decisions.

Keane was a ferocious competitor as a player who never took a step backwards but in his first managerial role he walked out of Sunderland in December 2008 after a poor run of form that culminated with a 4-1 defeat against Bolton.

He is unlikely to walk out of Ipswich after Sunday's 4-1 reverse, while we should remember that his team are just six points off the play-offs with 27 games left to play.

But with just over half a season remaining on his current contact, Keane's future at Portman Road appears to be increasingly in the balance.

You can follow me throughout the season at twitter.com/Paul__Fletcher

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 2.

    Wow.. no comments so far. I have just commented on Phil's blog on WHU about people not coming on blog of "smaller" teams yet they complain when you guys write something about PL big 4!

    To the point, I saw the match in bit parts today as I just could not resist the temptation after seeing so much hype. I have to say, Ipswisch's defence looked like an accident waiting to happen. Norwich's first goal was unbelieveable. Ipswich's LB wasnt a revelation either. They lost the ball right in front of their goal too many times and to the credit of Norwich, they took their chances.

    As for Keane, there really is only one Keane. As a Man Utd fan, I'd love him to do well wherever he goes so that I can one day see him at Fergie's seat. He epitomises grit, fight, that fire in the belly to succeed at all costs, never say die attitude. I wish he becomes a Utd manager one day and achieve as much success as a manager, as he did when he was a player.

  • Comment number 3.

    Does my comment not count Ahsan!

    i really do like cheese!

  • Comment number 4.

    Hopefully he can turn it round soon. Seems to have too many blemishes on his managerial record to take the OT hotseat one day.

    The run Ipswich have been on might be explainable due to injuries... but the lack of fight they showed does not bode well.

    Keano is brutally honest, though.

  • Comment number 5.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 6.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 7.

    What did you think about the derby Mr Fletcher if i remember correctly you said it was your first old farm encounter. Your opinnions on atmosphere and passion?

    I think it will soon sink in to the tractor boys that they need a turn around and quick. Parallels between ITFC now and our own relegation season. Manager critising fans, terrible expensive loan signings, infighting between fans, shocking defence, lack of team spirit and thinking their too big for league one.

  • Comment number 8.

    Complete agree paul. Reckon it would be odd though if they sacked him seeing though they stuck it through that run of games at the beginning of last season when they couldn't win at all.

    Evans has invested and isn't seeing an end product, whether my team's chairman, Mr Al Fayed will use the logic used by Evans last season, is also in the balance.

    Sidepoint: should Grant Holt have been sent off for a tackle that has broken legs this season?

  • Comment number 9.

    Royart - re the side point - watch the tackle ON Holt in first half injury time, or the equally cynical one Norris got booked for or the second half elbow on Simon Lappin THEN come back and talk about which team was guilty of the acts of violence today...

  • Comment number 10.

    Beefforhire-NCFC-The Messiah: Your management team which you stole, remember. On the main article, Ipswich were so poor today it was untrue. Whereas Norwich passed the ball around with ease, Ipswich's sole tactic of whacking it long to Priskin never looked like working from the first whistle. Never have I seen a derby performance so bad from ANYONE. Norwich didnt get out of third gear and didnt have to. Shocking from Ipswich.

  • Comment number 11.

    Perhaps most worryingly, Keane looked like a manager who was increasingly short of answers. He had a resigned look about him that I am told resembled his forlorn demeanour towards the end of his time as Sunderland manager.

    Actually the most worrying thing is the trace of stubble in the photo, if the beard makes return all is lost.

    It's incredible that after his record at Sunderland and Ipswich people are still talking about Keane as a potential Manchester United manager. If you want your club to commit suicide that's up to you I suppose, but being a good player is no guarantee of managerial ability. Keane just doesn't seem to have the interpersonal skills to manage a championship side let alone one of the biggest clubs in the world.

  • Comment number 12.

    Now then,

    Thanks for the comments so far.

    Yellowguy (post 7) - yep, really enjoyed the match and the occasion. The atmosphere was pretty tasty, in the way that it can only be when there is a long history of rivalry.

    Ipswich fans created a cracking atmos on the train in - though Delia Smith might not see it that way.

    Beefforhire (post 6) - a decent point that. Lambert deserves high praise for the job he is doing. I reckon that he deserves a blog on his own - perhaps when you're further up the table?

    Maniladaydreaming (post 11) - I hear it is all over when the Shakespearean beard appears. Moody and brooding.

  • Comment number 13.

    RE: 8&9

    'Violent' tackles are to be expected in derby games. I think the ref controlled the game quite well although the red card is possibly debatable.


    Other then that, shocking performance from the Town defence definitely going to miss Mcauley while he's out on that evidence. While watching the game i thought it was fairly equal with town generally on top - but Norwich looking the more dangerous because of our defensive ineptitude. You can argue that Holt was causing the nervousness but a championship defender should know to boot it clear instead of dithering about when an attacker of his reputation is bearing down on you.

    Substitutions were awful.
    Scotland looked to be the one making our attacks click, After he went off we really were toothless, but if you were going to take him off put someone who is more likly to be attacking with an ounce of quality from midfield i.e not Colin Healy.

    ok - Zuiverloon wasn't having the best of games but the tactical chance needed to bring Fallon on didn't help at all - If a change like that was going to be made dont put another one of your attackers (Edwards) back into right back.

    Then Bringing Troy Brown on was comparable to Capello bringing on Heskey against Germany - What was he going to do to help us get back into the game or at the very least looking respectable...

    Before this game i read many of keanes backers saying that he was building from the back, making us 'hard to beat' from todays evidence it seems he has made no progress at all.

  • Comment number 14.

    I was at the game today.
    Ipswich are in near freefall. 7 defeats in 9 league games speaks for itself.
    We are not too good to go down. Leeds, Charlton, Southampton, Norwich, Sheffield Wednesday. All teams who have been in the top division and dropped down. Teams such as Palace have been close to going down.

    Norwich appear to have the better players, better fans, better attendances. I may be being very pessimistic and I love town to bits but I can't help but worry. When Norwich were singing you're getting sacked in the morning, 80% of the ipswich fans joined in.
    I don't think Keane should be sacked... yet.
    However he has had 18 months and we've only gone backwards. People are saying that it's better then this time last year, but this is Keane's team. He can complain about the ammount of youth, but he brought them in. He's complained about not being supported in getting players such as Shaun Derry in, but he's wasted alot of money on players such as Lee Martin, who looked promising in pre season, but then is shipped out on loan to Charlton.
    Very VERY worried, come on you blues.

  • Comment number 15.

    Also adding.
    Why was Keane brought in? Publicity.
    Everytime he's interviewed and featured on Sky Sports News there is a big Marcus Evans in the background.
    Brings in Clegg, get him tickets for the Olympics I heard.
    If Ipswich get promoted it's a bonus, otherwise it doesn't matter.

    Just throwing that in there.

  • Comment number 16.

    I watched the game on television today, and whilst the atmosphere looked suitably raucous, the football left a lot to be desired. Although Norwich did not give an exhibition of inspiring football, and look a long way off QPR and Cardiff, they thoroughly deserved their victory. It pains me to say, as an Ipswich fan, but town were woefully inept, again lacking the tenacity and resolve that Keane is traditionally characterised as having.

    I have supported Keane's tenure fervently for the past 18 months but feel a change in management may now be necessary. I do not accept that Keane has 'petrified' the players into incompetence, or anything quite so sensational, but am concerned that he has failed to mould a team that plays cohesively. Perhaps what is most disappointing is that he has been unable to transfer the qualities that defined him as a player to the first eleven.

    I hope Keane can turn it around but the signs are looking ominous.

    ---------------------------------------

    Who do people (& Paul Fletcher) believe would be a credible replacement for Keane?

    Paul Jewell, Curbishly...my excitement is contained!

  • Comment number 17.

    Roy Keane is a fantastic manager. He took Sunderland from second last in the Championship, and on the brink of relegation ,to WIN the Championship and gain promotion to the Premier League. He then ensured Sunderland stayed in the top flight for the next season. He did it in one shot unlike the 3 times it took Mick McCarthy. Who's saying that he can't do the same with Ipswich Town? The team has humiliated themselves on live television and may now improve. The are only 6 points adrift of the play-offs and are no where near where Sunderland were a couple of seasons ago in the Championship.

  • Comment number 18.

    Cham - He took a recently relegated premiership side in a much better situation except being in the relegation zone. He didn't have to completely reshape the team. Also if you look at his dealings in the transfer market he wasted alot of money on flops.
    I REALLY want him to do a good job, but it's hard to see right now after 9 games of hell.

  • Comment number 19.

    cham - Keane is awful. Apart from that he cant take Ipswich up in 'one shot', and yes, they are near where Sunderland were 4 years ago, his man management is shocking, his regard for Ipswich Town fans from what ive heard is poor, and his ability in the transfer market leaves alot to be desired.Remember £10mil for Richardson and Chopra??? Baffling. These are all things which define a manager.

  • Comment number 20.

    "In his defence, he is having to deal with an injury crisis that has robbed him of players such as Connor Wickham, Gareth McAuley, Tom Eastman, Mark Kennedy and Luke Hyam."

    To be fair Paul, you've mentioned two 19 year olds and a 17 year old in that list, and none of them were Messi or Kaka.

    Norwich meanwhile had Adam Drury, Steven Smith, Stephen Hughes and Zak Whitbread injured, meaning that we arguably had a left midfielder (Simon Lappin filling in at left back) :-P

    The reason Ipswich lost was that they defended like a pub football team, despite the 5+ million it took to purchase Scotland, Norris, Leadbitter, Edwards, Priskin etc. Keane can't say he hasn't been backed, he's just been proven to be clueless.

  • Comment number 21.

    Crazy thing is, both Keane and Lambert have been in the management business an equal time, since 2005/6.

    Keane went from Premiership Sunderland to 'cash-rich' (at the time) Ipswich. Lambert started at Livingston and went to Wycombe, Colchester and Norwich.

    Difference is Keane has wasted a lot of Evans money - to the point where the purse has snapped shut, Lambert, by contrast, has been astute in picking up free/cheap players and moulding them into a tight coherent unit, as witnessed today.

    Which is why I think as a manager, Lambert is destined to get to the very top, whereas Keane has had his chances, not made the most of them, and his days in management are surely numbered at this level.

  • Comment number 22.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 23.

    I think the main problem with Keane is between his ears. Whilst in his playing career, he was managed by two of the finest managers of all time, and would have received countless advice over the years from both of them. However, when he started at Sunderland, the only 'advice' he had to call on was from Niall Quinn, who was more than willing to cover his deficiencies with a lot of money to invest in players.

    Having seen Ipswich come to Nottingham this season and lose to Forest (admittedly, one of our goals was a world class free kick), they looked devoid of ideas for long periods of the game, and the tactical decisions that Keane made seemed to confuse the players.

    As for yesterdays game, I thought that Ipswich were unfortunate to be down to ten men, as I've seen a lot of players receive bookings for the challenge that Delaney made, although, there possibly should have been at least one Red Card for the scuffle that occured in the opening moments.

    I doubt Keane will be in charge much after Christmas, as I'm sure that Marcus Evans won't tolerate the poor performances from the side much longer, no matter what the excuses.

  • Comment number 24.

    Oh geez a Big Issue, Roy Keane!
    On the dole by December nineteen.
    When offered a sandwich
    He replied, "No, Oi'll manige."
    But who - that remains to be seen.

  • Comment number 25.

    For the majority of this season we(Ipswich)seem to be devoid of any plan b.Plan a isn't working,the hoof into the middle,so where is the tactical awareness to change things?A lot of money spent on players,full backing from the board etc etc but still time to go and walk the dogs Roy.

    Big week this week.WBA in the Lager Cup,then Swansea at the weekend.Both at home.Lose those two games and he has to go.

    There should be no defence offered for the appalling performance yesterday.Norwich didn't even need to break into a sweat.

  • Comment number 26.

    It was a strange game, and obviously we really suffered from the loss of McAuley, but although defensively we were a shambles, we actually looked quite sharp in attack, until the sending off which wasn't.

    But that's not to take away from N*****. They had a manager who, despite being in the stands, reacted to situations tactically. Keane just doesn't seem to know how to get the players playing as a team, and as for taking a striker off for a midfielder, when we were 2-1 down and at ten men, it's just incredible.

    Priskin went from looking really sharp, to the frustrated, disinterested figure that we were all upset with until recently - and I can't blame him. Why were we protecting a loss?

    The next few goals went in, and I'd stopped crying and started laughing. If this pantomime horse continues to be our PR lead for much longer, I would imagine we'll be in relegation trouble soon enough. I have forgiven him many things - selling our decent youth prospects for a song (Jordan Rhodes), decimating the squad over the summer and then having to panic-loan to bolster the squad, but now I just want it over with.

    He continued to look out of his depth, and I think he's either misjudged the importance of the game, or (more likely) the salary and job security doesn't really bother a man who could probably buy the entire club and not notice a drop in pension.

  • Comment number 27.

    Kean reminds of Souness.

    Both have a dictatorial approach to people that either works or doesn't, and 9 times out 10, it doesn't.

    Both also have had an extraordinary poor judgement in the transfer market.

    When Kean gets fired by Ipswich, I've got no doubt someone will take him on just because of who he is. Again, this worked for Souness, until people finally realised he simply wasn't manager material.

  • Comment number 28.

    I think it would be an ABU's dream to see Roy Keane as manager of Manchester United. The man hasn't got a clue.

    To Ahsan at 2. your mistake is the mistake a lot of fans make. Confusing a great player, and the aura of a great player, with what makes a great manager. I've heard some of your boys say you'd like Cantona to come back as manager, which is another good example. Great players do not necessarily make great managers. This point is proven. Keane was a great player but the Souness comparison above is a very apt one.

    In terms of understanding what makes others tick, Keane is hopeless. His record in the transfer market? He wastes money. His scouting and transfer policy seems to be restricted to Irish players or players he played and managed with at Man Utd, Celtic and Sunderland. If you only sign guys that you 'know' then thats a very shortsighted and restrictive transfer policy.

    He chops and changes his teams and seems to have no idea how to build a team, no coherent plan.

    In short: a great player, yes. All the toughness and mental qualities that British football fans love. But a great manager? Nope.

  • Comment number 29.

    It's not just Keane that's lost his way, Ipswich Town Football Club had long-held an honourable and respected name in football. While probably not the greatest achievers, it is still a club that was renowned for being sporting and fair, has succeeded beyond its means, and once stood proudly at the top of the league, won a couple of cups and produced two superb England managers. These days it appears little more than a business interest and an expensive advert for a ticket sales business (who is Marcus Evans really?).

    There are some talented players who are forced to stick to a training ground system and have lost the flair and freedom to play football... on top of which they seem fearful of making mistakes that only leads to their worst fear. Yesterday, they were like the school football team concentrating on positions and not free to use their football brains to play.

    Even with 11 men, Roy Keane's 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 systems will fail unless he can inspire some confidence in players who look increasingly frustrated (and even confused).

    Unless Keane is a different man in the dressing room to the one he portrays to the outside world, there will be a group of players who can only respect what he achieved as a player and sit waiting for a manager to give them direction and hope!

  • Comment number 30.

    Hmm, hardly any support at all for Roy Keane. Does nobody feel that he can still turn the situation around?

    For all the current doom and gloom there are still 27 games left to play this season - that is possibly a positive as much as it is a negative. Ipswich are in a very tight and congested division with just a handful of points currently the difference between success and failure.

  • Comment number 31.

    He looks increasingly like a guy who doesn't know what to do to change things on the pitch. That is usually a fatal sign for a manager. Maybe more comfortable on the TV as a pundit.

  • Comment number 32.

    As an Irish man I'm delighted to see Keane crumbling. When Ispwich appointed him I commented on this site that this was a massive mistake. The guy has no managerial know how, his transfer record is awful and I wonder how long it will be before he quits. I don't like or dislike Ipswich but you need to do yourselves a favour and cut Keane loose. If he shut his mouth for 5 minutes and stopped commenting on topics that he has nothing to do with such as the Irish football team and Rooney's proposed transfer and started concentrating on his own job he may make an average manager at best. I usually don't like seeing people do badly but in Keane's case I'll make an exception.

  • Comment number 33.

    From watching it on TV, the sending off seemed to kill the game. Prior to that, Ipswich were giving as good as they got in an attacking sense (although their approach - a bit more direct).

    However that doesn't really excuse the terrible defense and bad tactical decisions made by Keane on the day (as covered above). With regards to 30, Championship teams turn things round quite often and, with the division being as tightly contested as it is, it is quite easy to get back up there.

    But if the decisions and attitude of Keane yesterday are indicative of his approach generally, then I do not believe he can manage it.

    Also quickly, there's too little praise going in Lambert & his managerial team's direction. He's done a brilliant job, gets the very best out of his players consistently and his tactical & transfer decisions are all very hard to criticise so far. Also his calm, authoriative but not at all dictatorial manner in interviews & the like inspire great confidence. He comes across as firm but kind to his players - seems to cultivate great loyalty & respect in my opinion.

    If he had the money & opportunities Keane has had, I have no doubt he'd have done better. But then perhaps not having the money & opportunities Keane has had is what has made him the better manager.

    Although Ipswich gave us a real fight in a couple of the early stages, Norwich didn't get out of 3rd gear once. We've played better than that this season, but yesterday didn't really need to - Ipswich's defense and lack of fight after the sending off, plus the negative decisions of Keane all ensured that.

  • Comment number 34.

    You gotta love Ron Burgundy. Not only has he starred in one of the funniest movies ever, but he scores a Hat Trick in the local derby.
    WE LOVE ANCHORMAN

  • Comment number 35.

    #30 At the risk of upsetting my friend in Buxton I don't think Keane is a bad manager he just somehow needs to somehow get a grip on the malaise that has affected Ipswich Town Football Club and get them believing in themselves the way he did at Sunderland before he was undermined by Ricky Sbragia and a couple of lazy Sunderland players who thankfully are no longer at the club either.

    Keane has the ability to turn this round but you can't escape the fact that Ipswich need to start winning games and doing so quickly. People need to remember that it takes time to build a successful football club and patience is needed. I don't see Everton and Birmingham panicking given their positions or Preseton even. Also look at what has happened to Peterborough & MK DOns since they canned Ince and Ferguson they have gone backwards and there is talk of Peterborough getting rid of Gary Johnson which would be a mistake.

    Keane is a good manager and it is in his and Ipswich's interests that he turns this form around, gets a bit wiser in the transfer market and gets teh team back into teh Premier League

  • Comment number 36.

    Great article paul...i thought the game was quite even up till the 35 minute when holt put in his 2nd. I knew we always looked vulnerable at the back but i was an open game and when we got the ball in the norwich half we looked threatening. I thought the turning point was obviously the sending off but once RK brought scotland off you always knew that we werent capable of grabbing an equaliser. Scotland is the only finisher we have and Priskin needs at least 3 chances a match to get one on target..however priskin has imrpoved this season undoubtely.
    For keane i believe he has to as a true fan said to me at the end 'I feel that our famous club is on the edge of the presipiss. Keane was nieve as ever and we were laughed at all afternoon.'(hunter-jones).keane has to go soon before january so he doesnt waste anymore of our money.

  • Comment number 37.

    "People need to remember that it takes time to build a successful football club and patience is needed."

    I (would like to) think that most fans understand that, but it seems Keane is more intent on de-constructing the team rather than building one. There is absolutely no evidence we have progressed since Magilton.

    Unfortunately i do have a fear that, ironically, Keane may be the only one that can hold it all together, and without him it will only collapse completely

  • Comment number 38.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 39.

    Congrats [if slightly grudging :cP] to the team in yellow.

    "We" really missed McAuley to marshal that defence, which was shaky even before Delaney went. None of the other four took it upon themselves to fulfil that role [although with two of them, Tommy Smith shouldn't be expected to lead at that age, and it was Zuiverloon's first game with us].

    It begs a question about the big K's training methods, man-management and overall coaching. He's injurious to the club in the bigger picture [as well articulated above], and if he's injurious to the club in the minutae of man-management and training, there's only one result sooner or later.

    Sooner, please...

  • Comment number 40.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 41.

    In case you did not get the chance to see alot of terrible Ipswich defending and some pretty impressive Norwich attacking, here you go......

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00wbkcl/Match_of_the_Day_Live_2010_2011_Norwich_City_v_Ipswich_Town/

  • Comment number 42.

    35. At 10:10am on 29 Nov 2010, PetShopBoys_Forever wrote:

    Keane is a good manager
    _______________________________________________________
    No he isn't Adam,he's appalling.No tactical awareness,no nous in the transfer market,a one directional approach to our play and an inability to inspire.

    Too many players from his previous pastures,which leads to a bit of an old boys club feel to the place.

    I'm saddened by the comments that say how much people now dislike the team I follow because of K**ne being hired.Not because I disagree with them,but how much it shows what a disliked person he is.

  • Comment number 43.

    I remember hearing Terry Butcher say once how Bobby Robson spoke to his players in such a way that they would run through brick walls for him.
    I kind of get that feeling with Paul Lambert, but the total opposite with Roy Keane.
    I wouldn't say the Ips**** players don't care, but they looked confused and a little unmotivated.

    Every fan in the Country can put a good squad together on paper, making a team is a little harder. Keane has a squad that is much better on paper than City's, but Paul Lambert has built a team. More than that, Lambert has put together a squad that has competition for places without disrupting the team spirit, and he's done it on a shoe string budget.

  • Comment number 44.

    we, Ipswich, are in trouble. Never mind the stats of how far off the play offs we are and how we're in the quarter final of the league cup - even the games we have won this season we've looked unconvincing. Keane has been given a season and a half now - and I don't see any particular style forming in the team. His loan signings rarely make sense - we once again seem to have 17 central midfielders but only one winger and no full backs.
    It's not a case of giving him more time to turn things around - I don't think he knows how he wants the team to play and that is why I think he should go at Xmas - everything else (his relationship with the fans and players alike) is irrelevant.

    I don't know how much his contract is for though so perhaps it will cost too much to get rid of him? I think the money being used on Rory Fallon though could certainly be better spent on getting a new manager!

  • Comment number 45.

    Robbie Keane is way better than Roy Keane!!!!

  • Comment number 46.

    Martin O'Neil as Keane's successor...pie in the sky?

  • Comment number 47.

    "... 30. At 09:42am on 29 Nov 2010, Paul Fletcher wrote:

    Hmm, hardly any support at all for Roy Keane. Does nobody feel that he can still turn the situation around? ..."

    Good blog Paul - brought one or two painful memories back, but never mind! As a season ticket holder at Ipswich for several years, I've seen some lows and highs, but yesterday was about as low as it ever got. Many fans never took to Keane from day one, and whatever he did would not have been good enough. Conversely, I suppose I could have been called a "pro-Keaner" up until a couple of weeks ago, but then seeing the subs made against Barnsley just made me lose my faith. Instantly. Maybe there had been a thread of doubt underneath for a while, but I just suddenly realised that this man seemingly had run out of ideas, and was effectively a dead man walking.

    The local derby against the budgies was a chance for the manager and some of the players to redeem themselves in the eyes of the fans - after all, the two Ipswich/Norwich fixtures are the most eagerly anticipated of the year in this part of the world - it sets the bragging rights for the next few months, and adds a tick or two in the stats columns for future debate about who is bigger/better/more successful (still IPSWICH of course...!)

    I'm not going to repeat what others (and you Paul) have said in your comments, but the performance, result (and the tactics/subs/positions in between) speak volumes.

    So no, I don't think he can turn it around. Jim Magilton was a popular player and then manager, yet he couldn't turn that support into success. Roy Keane had to win over some very sceptical fans AND start to show signs of success - neither is happening. And unless we get a few spectacular results in the next few weeks, any remaining support for the man will ebb away.

  • Comment number 48.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 49.

    "Keane looked like a manager who was increasingly short of answers. He had a resigned look about him that I am told resembled his forlorn demeanour towards the end of his time as Sunderland manager." - what a lame piece of "journalism".

    Perhaps you should add that when he waved I am told he resembled George VI.

  • Comment number 50.

    I appreciate the optimism of people that confirm ITFC are only 6 points from the play-off places, but equally they're only 4 points from the relegation zone. It's a tight league and on current form, if we're even staying in the Championship next season, that should be a good result. Roy's a good lad and injuries are hampering the teams progress but after 18 months in the job, he should have given more stability to the team by now. Yesterdays game was just a disaster, especially defensively!

  • Comment number 51.

    The Times today has a good report about the game and a few "what if's".

    * Holt only played because the FA caved in to City's complaint of his sending off against Reading
    * Holt should have been sent off not booked for his violent conduct early in the game
    * Holt handled the ball leading to his 1st goal
    * Delaney should have only been booked as it was not a certain goal scoring chance, so far from goal

    having said all that, City deserved their moment in the sun, because we played with four defenders wearing blind-folds

  • Comment number 52.

    Was quite an entertaining game to watch as a neutral. Ipswich were unlucky to have delaney sent off, poor refereeing there but their defensive play was casual boreding on kamikaze at times, wouldn't expect to see it from a side coached by Roy Keane

  • Comment number 53.

    I attended the game and am completely impartial. Yes, Ipswich's defence was awful and seemed to be scared to death of Holt and Martin. However, I found Ipswich far more technically adept than Norwich who seemed to have one route (until Lansbury got into his stride). I really liked the way Ipswich always tried to play the ball out of defence and through midfield. The main problem is that Norwich's style may be more suited for escape from this Division than the more skilful style of Ipswich. Just a word on the hat trick hero - his foul in the 2nd minute was right in front of me, and it was a terrible tackle. Then, all those around me agreed that he handled the ball before scoring his second. Probably no consolation to Ipswich fans I know. I would unhesitatingly keep Roy Keane as there is not too much wrong.

  • Comment number 54.

    Martynelmy, the FA didn't 'cave in', they recinded an incorrect card (even the Reading manager said it was wrong). I think the yellow for Holt was right, the red card wasn't, it should have been a yellow. As for the 'handall', Matt Holland seemed convinced it wasn't, so that will do me! You didn't mention the penalty we should have been awarded, though ;)

  • Comment number 55.

    Having sat through quite a lot of nonsense at Portman Road, I too am mystified by all the "Keane is a good manager" comments. I would very much like for him to succeed and I'd like the Town to continue to give managers a chance - but it has been a while and, OK so I don't go to every game, but I've been to plenty enough since Keane took over to see the direction (or lack of) our football is going in. In fact I'm not even sure how I'd describe our tactics: pumping the ball into crowds, players failing to find team mates a few yards away whilst maintaining incoherence at the back? Seriously, it's really very tedious to watch - if we win it only seems to be by accident. In fact I'd take the same points tally if I could see some half decent football - I know it's only the Championship but there's a lot of money going around by everyday standards - can't we at least have the odd coherent passing move followed perhaps by a decent effort on target a few times a game?

  • Comment number 56.

    Can't really complain with the result yesterday, Norwich looked better all over the park. I was bricking me nappy everytime a ball went near Town's box.

    That being said I would have liked to see the match played with a certain Ron Burgundy getting some yellows dished out for challenges and handballs. That and Town with 11 men on the pitch. Last man my arse.

  • Comment number 57.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 58.

    Aright...as a Sunderland I'd like to make the following observations about Roy Keane's management. Fair enough he did take us from a very precarious position near the foot of the Championship back to the Premier League but he acheived it with a scatter gun approach to buying players, the legacy of which Steve Bruce has had to clear up. It appeared he just bought loads of players in the thinking, 'well if enough come off that'll be good enough' David Connolly, Stan Varga, Carlos Edwards, Dicksen Etuhu, Anthony Stokes, amongst others were bought then just dispatched when Keane realised he didn't rate them or like them. He paid £9m for Craig Gordon, £6m for George McCartney and a similar amount for Anton Ferdinand, none of whom are worth those prices. He bought David Healy then didn't play him when he realised how bad he was. Terrible terrible scouting and transfer dealings. So sorry he might have got us up but I think it was more luck than good judgement!!! Sorry Ipswich I like your club and you deserve better...

  • Comment number 59.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 60.

    What is it with the BBC and their constant failure to give us ANY credit whatsoever when we beat other sides? It's always THEIR failings that get reported - in this case their celebrity 'manager' (sic). Town were abysmal yesterday, but some of the stuff said on here (and having replayed the game on the tele when I got in, on the match commentary) defies belief.

    All this stuff about it being even until the sending off??!!?? Watch the game again. We could easily have been three or four up (with real chances) BEFORE they got an equaliser against the run of play. They'd had NO clear cut chances up to that point. They then played well for 5 minutes and had a little spell, then we scored again to restore what on balance of play at that point was a fair reflection of how the game had actually been.

    Look at how we knocked the ball around them. Look at how we chased harried and pressed their players into mistakes. Look at how our defenders always got a block in to prevent a shot on the rare occasions needed. And most of all look at the sheer quality of all FOUR finishes, and the movement from our players that made those goals.

    WE WON IT AND WE DESERVED TO.

  • Comment number 61.

    And how does commenting on some of their fans behaviour yesterday (5) contravene house rules and cause offence given that it was factually true, as evidenced by the posts they put up themselves on You Tube? There's enough of their support condemning it on their own 606 Board at the moment?

  • Comment number 62.

    One other thing, does any seem the resemblence to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran?

  • Comment number 63.

    62. At 1:46pm on 29 Nov 2010, charlie_hurley wrote:
    One other thing, does any seem the resemblence to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran?
    -------

    Hated by most of the western world.....yep I see a comparison.

  • Comment number 64.

    Would this article about Ipswich be here if not for Keane being thier manager?

    No, typical BBC only writing about the lower leagues when there is some angle on it connecting it to the premiership and it wasnt even a good read.

  • Comment number 65.

    I think there are alot of haters on this board after a certain Irish man's blood.

    Your talking about one of the greatest midfielders ever to grace the British game, and for a season if not two, Europe and the World. He took the Sunderland job, while they were in the bottom three, and went on to demolish the Championship that year, and win the league. He then excelled in his first Premiership season, and got a respectable finish after a tough start due to injuries.

    In fairness, yes, he lost the dressing room in his 2nd Premiership season and deserved to be sacked, but people forget he still got a team promoted. Money or not, this sits well on a CV. Many managers have had bankroll in the and have failed to impress. Alot of the players he brought in to Sunderland were astute loans and buys, such as Johnny Evans and they were brilliant after Xmas that year.

    Its all to easy to forget the good times, when a manager is struggling. I think Ipswich should stick with Keane, nobody has the will to win more than him.

    Time will tell.

    Forest Fan

  • Comment number 66.

    59 - What on earth has this got to do with Norwich and Ipswich?

  • Comment number 67.

    cmr-oafc (post 64) - I hear that accusation quite a lot. It may or may not be true but I don't think it holds much water with regard to this particular blog. Why not have a skim through the last 150 or so articles and see what the subject matter is frequently about.

    As for the issue of whether Grant Holt should have been on the pitch to score his hat-trick - I thought at the time that he could easily have gone for his rather ugly early challenge on Jack Colback. And having seen it again I still think that.

  • Comment number 68.

    First of all, Norwich fully deserved to win. We (Ipswich) had a brief purple patch towards the end of the first half before Delaney was sent off, but overall Norwich played the ball around far better than we did, and deserved the three points. Our defending was absolutely abject at times, and as per usual, we played far too many aimless balls forward, especially when we made a very strange substitution by bringing Jason off for Colin Healy… (Since when has playing long balls to a lone striker who is pretty average in the air been a sound tactic?)

    A few items as food for thought…

    1) Keane MUST go. The championship is a very average league this season. Aside from QPR and Cardiff, there isn't a team in the division who can maintain enough consistency to prove themselves as promotion material. (When players like Grant Holt can score a hatrick you have to start questioning the standard of play…) If we act quickly and give a new manager the chance to assess the squad, and bring in one or two fresh faces in January, we could still turn this season from mediocrity into a successful one. (The stuff about us getting relegated, presumably started by the Norwich supporters, is pretty wide of the mark as far as I'm concerned.) The most worrying thing for me is, when the players ran out for the second half, us 2-1 down with everything to play for, none of our players looked in the slightest bit interested. What on earth was not said at half time?! I said straight away that we'd be awful in the second half, and awful is exactly what we were. It’s a bad sign when a manager can't fire up his players at half-time in a local derby…

    2) Fair play to Norwich for their victory yesterday, (I tipped them to finish in the top six at the start of the season.) But seriously, show a bit of class and at least be slightly gracious in victory! I've seen numerous Town fans congratulate Norwich for their performance, but literally two, maybe three Norwich fans do anything other than "gloat-gloat-gloat, we beat you ner-ner" etc etc. No objective or reasoned perspectives of the game whatsoever. It's quite pathetic really. Maybe a touch of the small club-big club complex we had with Colchester when they beat us last time they were in the CCC…

    3) I hope we've seen the last of our fans criticising the decisions yesterday as a partial factor for us losing the game… The tackle wasn't a definite red, real time Holt's first goal didn’t particularly look like handball from the referee's angle, the sending off was reasonably fair. Moreover, we were second best even before the red card. We would have got beat, albeit perhaps by a smaller margin, whether we had 10 or 11 yesterday. Let's just move on and concentrate on getting a decent manager in charge, because as far as I'm concerned we have some of the better players in the division in our squad. We can still challenge for promotion if we start to put round pegs in round holes, and pass the ball for a change.

  • Comment number 69.

    Roy Keane has a singular approach to managing his players...bad cop and even worse cop! There rarely seems any positive spin coming out of Keano's post-match retoric (fair enough after a derby mauling) but emphasising all the 'hard games' coming up and saying your side doesn't look capable of stringing a decent run together hardly builds morale or confidence.

    The approach might work if he turned his anger on those outside the club and developed an 'us against them' spirit with his players, but instead of any carrot..it's just all stick at the moment! At United Keane led by his never say die attitude but he used to bring his side along with him.

  • Comment number 70.

    If there were any signs that Keane is actually building something better at Ipswich I'm confident that the majority of Ipswich fans would patiently wait for that. Shame that he isn't.

  • Comment number 71.

    #60 OTBC_1969

    Good points very well made, despite me being a City fan also.

    Lambert's stock has risen ( as rapidly as Keane's has fallen ) because of his ability to spot a player with ability, get them on board for a sensible fee and mould them into part of a cohesive footballing unit.

    Andrew Crofts, who was at Brighton last year, is a classic example, and he is many fans choice of 'player of the season' at almost the half way stage. Lambert has coached him up to a higher level in no time at all.

    A final word on the officials yesterday. If it was so 'pro-Norwich', why no straight red card for Tamas Priskin, who elbowed Simon Lappin in the face AFTER the ball had been cleared for a throw in ?

  • Comment number 72.

    Cromer - not to mention the scything down of Grant Holt in first half injury time or Norris escaping with a booking for cynically chopping down Lansbury with a tackle through his archiles tendon...

    Mattski - I take your point on the gloating (2), what goes around comes around, doesn't it... now remind me, when I left Portman Road after our last visit (which you deserved to win despite it coming via a dived for penalty and an offside goal) I seem to recall certain people in the top tier of the Churchman End hanging over the stand in order to be videoed with 2,500 gutted Norwich fans in the background, so that said videos could appear on You Tube that evening. This is just payback time... And "small club big club syndrome"??!!??

  • Comment number 73.

    59. At 1:37pm on 29 Nov 2010, dont fear the reaper wrote:
    Sam Allardyce needs investigating regarding Blackburn's sudden injury list for their game against United.
    I firmly believe that an unhealthy mode of practice is fast becoming part of some PL managers policies where when the feel their team wont get a result at a place such as Old Trafford they rest several players to save them for the game after where they could win and then lie making excuses the players left out are injured.....APPALLING.....

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    66. At 2:30pm on 29 Nov 2010, Bellion-Wonderland wrote:
    59 - What on earth has this got to do with Norwich and Ipswich?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I echo 66's reply, but worth mentioning that Blackburn's back five were Paul Robinson (ex-England keeper), Michel Salgado (ex-Real Madrid, Spain defender), Christopher Samba, Ryan Nelsen and Pascal Chimbonda. So Allardyce hardly fielded the kids did he? Of his 'first choice' XI only Gamst Pedersen and Kalinic were missing and they are genuinely injured. So to 59, give the obsessive Man Utd conspiracy theories a rest and at least post your rubbish on a relevant blog.

  • Comment number 74.

    #68 - Mattski
    2) Fair play to Norwich for their victory yesterday, (I tipped them to finish in the top six at the start of the season.) But seriously, show a bit of class and at least be slightly gracious in victory! I've seen numerous Town fans congratulate Norwich for their performance, but literally two, maybe three Norwich fans do anything other than "gloat-gloat-gloat, we beat you ner-ner" etc etc. No objective or reasoned perspectives of the game whatsoever. It's quite pathetic really. Maybe a touch of the small club-big club complex we had with Colchester when they beat us last time they were in the CCC…
    -----------------------------------------------------

    The same grace you lot showed us when you beat us at Portman Road helping us on the way to League One and when we were actually relegated?

    Of course City fans are gong to be gloating and enjoying the result. It would be exactly the same the other way round. If you think any different, you need to get real.

    As for the small club-big club thing... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! We're on pretty equal ground regarding club sizes - although I'll concede you've achieved more.


    On the subject of pathetic... what did our bins ever do to you?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQp5hutnHk8

  • Comment number 75.

    Bowthorpe canary

    I saw that video to and found it fantastic. On ipswich forums their were even some proud about smashing up a bin. Never so brave outside the ground for some reason. Im glad they went to war with the bins, ironic as their nick name is the binners, and im even more glad there is video evidence making them look like a right bunch of spanners.

  • Comment number 76.

    53. At 1:08pm on 29 Nov 2010, terry harrison wrote:
    I found Ipswich far more technically adept than Norwich who seemed to have one route (until Lansbury got into his stride). I really liked the way Ipswich always tried to play the ball out of defence and through midfield. The main problem is that Norwich's style may be more suited for escape from this Division than the more skilful style of Ipswich. Just a word on the hat trick hero - his foul in the 2nd minute was right in front of me, and it was a terrible tackle. Then, all those around me agreed that he handled the ball before scoring his second. Probably no consolation to Ipswich fans I know. I would unhesitatingly keep Roy Keane as there is not too much wrong.

    --------------------

    is this a joke?

    ipswich were completely and utterly outplayed, 11 v 11, 10 v 11, it didn't matter. norwich play lovely passing football while ipswich play route one, direct, boring football. as a neutral, it is clear you know nothing about football...

  • Comment number 77.

    horrible for ipswitch, i feel really sorry for them. i went through the same thing a few weeks ago (sunderland fan)

  • Comment number 78.

    Ho ho, knew it wouldn't be long before Roy Keane's Ipswich fans brought out the we're such a big club line. A club that can't get 20,000 through the gate unless they're playing Norwich. A club who have only won 1 more major trophy than Norwich.

    Since 1946 Norwich have had higher attendences than Ipswich for 36 seasons (inc this). Ipswich have had higher than Norwich on 29 seasons. It' a shame I have no figures for pre-war attendences, since Norwich were easily the biggest club in Anglia for over 40 years.

    And to top it all off, they've have only been in a higher division than Norwich for 17 years in their entire history. Their tiny, small, insignificant neighbours have been senior on 37 seasons. Tehe.

  • Comment number 79.

    ''What is it with the BBC and their constant failure to give us ANY credit whatsoever when we beat other sides? It's always THEIR failings that get reported - in this case their celebrity 'manager' (sic). Town were abysmal yesterday, but some of the stuff said on here (and having replayed the game on the tele when I got in, on the match commentary) defies belief.''

    So, SO true. To be honest though, I love the beeb for their myopia - it means that, when we're on a high, everyone outside of Norfolk is clueless as to just how well we're doing. It's not a bad thing. After all, we don't want anyone from the higher leagues to come sniffing around for our better players or even (heaven forbid) the messiah himself, Paul Lambert!

    This media-blindness worked wonders last season, and in 2003-04, when despite leading the league for 4 months, all the talk was about Leeds (last time out) and West Brom (in 2004). Which instantly takes the pressure off of our players, and also makes it all the sweeter when the journos are finally forced to acknowledge Norwich's success - and that it's been fully deserved (Manish's genuinely shocked comment ''and did you realise they've been top of the league since January?!'' when we beat Charlton to win promotion last season was one of my TV highlights of the year, purely for the irony of the situation!).

    Not that I'm saying we are going to go on to win promo, I'm under no illusions about how difficult that will be - but we will have a lot better chance if we're not forced to listen to offers for the likes of Holt, Martin, Hoolahan, young Korey Smith and Crofts.

    We have a small enough squad as it is - and that's another thing, everyone's gone on and on and on about what ''an injury crisis'' other teams like Ipswich are experiencing, but last time I looked Norwich have been missing their best LB for nearly two months, had no proper LB at all for the last 4 games or so, and have missed some extremely good players (Surman, S. Smith Whitbread etc.) for long periods of the season. Holt started the season playing through an injury, too. The difference? Lambert and Norwich don't make excuses - they don't need to.

    OTBC!!

  • Comment number 80.

    Its a tight, tight league Town fans so please dont over-react to a tough run and a mauling by your neighbours. Keane DID work miracles at Sunderland, their meteoric rise showing his capability when harnessed. I agree at times his transfer decisons can be baffling and his manner alienating, but give the guy a little more time.

    I'm a Leics fan and we've overcome a tough start to now be above Ipswich. Admittedly this was achieved by sacking our clueless former superstar player for the mighty Sven.

    So do keep Keano on Tractorboys. He'll do you proud.

    And maybe Norwich would be keen on trading Lambert for a certain glamorous Swede?

  • Comment number 81.

    amare ny

    I didn't know that you've won the (Div 1) league, the FA cup and the UEFA cup. You beat us well done, but don't make things up as you look a fool.

    Keane simply has to go. Evans needs to have the balls to let Keane go, he's not been ably assisted by Clegg who should join Keane in the P45 queue.

    The contrast to our Northern neighbours couldn't be more stark. As much as it pains me to say, we need to look at them to learn how to do thing right.

  • Comment number 82.

    Don't understand people who say Keano's record is unimpressive.

    He took a Sunderland side from the bottom of the championship...and won the championship in his first season. Not with a team of superstars but with a team a mediocre players who almost all instantly flopped once they reached the premiership, even still Keano achieved their goal in the second season and kept them in the top flight with them. Just look at where those players who he achieved promotion with are now, they weren't promoted by the quality of their squad but rather the quality of management getting the very best out of the players he had.

    The championship has teams with so little between them. The difference between being fortunate with players in good form and lack of injuries is huge position wise. It's a league where the very best will be at the top, the very worst at the bottom and the other odd 18 or so teams could be anywhere from a playoff spot to battling relegation depending on their
    fortune that year.

    Keano's doing fine, Ipswich did fine in the second half of last season and started this season brightly. They've struggled lately because the bulk of their defence is out injured or unavailable in O'Deas case. Quite funny seeing people angry at the manager because he's no defence to work with because of injuries.

  • Comment number 83.

    Hi Paul,

    As Barnet are possibly the greatest team in the history of the universe, can you write a blog on Steve Kabba and why he should play for England? Also what are your opinions on us winning League Two and possibly the Fa Cup next season?

  • Comment number 84.

    Ya, I admit it, I'm a sad, sad, person. Was at the game, travelled home and watched it again on a TV recording !

    PS. what a great Kick off time for us exiles, set off, early Sunday morning, very little traffic at that time of the day and I was home by early evening.

  • Comment number 85.

    Totally agree with Blueintheface....I don't think Keane will ever make a good manager and he was certainly never the right man for Ipswich.After 45 years of support I am now indifferent to our results.I just want the embarrassing Keane era over.He has no tactical nous,no charisma either.Please walk away Mr.Keane and enjoy your millions.

  • Comment number 86.

    * Holt only played because the FA caved in to City's complaint of his sending off against Reading
    The Fa rescinded a red card he was given which the referee and opposition manager agreed was wrong
    * Holt should have been sent off not booked for his violent conduct early in the game
    It was a poor challenge, some refs would have sent him off, some wouldnt, i think a booking was right but admit if it was the other way round we would have been baing for blood
    Also, Ipswich players kicking him whilst on the ground could have led to 1-2 red cards aswell, and norris deserved at least 4 yellow cards for 4 seperate 'challenge'.
    * Holt handled the ball leading to his 1st goal
    No he didnt, he clearly tried to handle it but like andy marshall coming for a cross he didnt get near it.
    * Delaney should have only been booked as it was not a certain goal scoring chance, so far from goal
    I dont know the wording in the full rule and cant be bothered to check it so i may be wrong, but as i understand it, you get sent off for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Holt was through on goal and that would clearly be a goal scoring opportunity, whether other players would have caught him or not doesnt matter, he had the opportunity denied him so i think red was the right decision.



  • Comment number 87.

    Clegg should go too.The letter we received from him at the end of last season promoting season tickets for '10/'11 was risible.As grammatically poor as the team !

  • Comment number 88.

    Also, Danny haines clearly handballed a winner against us a few seasons ago, it happens. Norwich scored 4 and had atleast 3-4 good opportunities to add to that, chris martin was thru on goal twice, both martin and holt had headers in front of goal go just wide, holt had a goalbounf effort blocked by his team mate, simeon jackson was denied a clear penalty. Ipswich had a couple of long range efforts on target, a couple blockerd in the area....thats it

  • Comment number 89.

    Norwich were the better team and deserved to win, despite a dodgy red card. However, and I don't mean this as sour grapes, I personally do not think they looked like a very good team (although they might be improving all the time). That they won 4 -1 really just tells you how bad Town played.

    But, onto the Keane issue, I agree with a couple of the comments above: his transfer deals have been woeful. Whatever happened to a scouting policy that picked up talent from places beyond Sunderland (including other countries)? Keane seems incapable of signing a player with any real quality. As a result, the team is really remarkably predictable and easily to work out and beat. I long for the return of a player like Clive Woods who would dribble round people and keep the opponents guessing as to what was coming next.

  • Comment number 90.

    We've played better this season and not won, so I'd accept what you're trying to say.

    We didn't play exceptionally well on Sunday but we played well enough to exploit your poor defending and beat you comfortably - just a shame that we didn't take full advantage and make it more embarrassing for you.

  • Comment number 91.

    BlueMonkey

    I said Ipswich had won 1 more major trophy than Norwich have.

    Which part of that is incorrect? Where did I say Norwich had won the old first Division?

  • Comment number 92.

    Well im a Town fan, have been since Bobby's days of brilliant football, and the darker days..!I support the team through thick and thin.So how about we all get behind the team and the manager, he knows a hell of a lot more about football than me and the players he has and how they are playing. I find him refreshingly honest, so i for one am going to cut him some slack, after all as the pundits said, if we had played to our best we had a better quality of player than Norwich... give them some confidence and get off their backs... we are only 6 points from the playoffs, it might work wonders !!

  • Comment number 93.

    blueharry (92) - I can kind of see what you're saying (Norwich went through similar with Worthington); however,the point a number of posters have made is that Lambert can make the sum of the parts greater than the whole (or however it goes). On the other hand, Keane seems to have the knack of doing the opposite.

    It's all very well filling the team with supposed talent, but if you can't get them to play as a team then it's an utter waste. Just imagine how well other managers might do with the talent that Ipswich are alleged to have (can't comment as I haven't seen any evidence of it).

    My take on it is that Lambert is really showing the ability to be a first class manager one day, whereas Keane is showing that with sufficent money he can put a squad together before he destroys it.

    With regard to the argument about top quality players not always making good managers, I'm surprised no one has mention Brian Robson - first class player, amazing captain...clueless manager.

  • Comment number 94.

    FAO Blue Monkey #81, if you take a look at the Football League Championship trophy, you will see that Ipswich's name is on it once and Norwich's name is on it once. One each is even.

    Take a look yourself...
    http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/PastWinnersDetail/0,,10794~475363,00.html

  • Comment number 95.

    ^ We're talking about the old first division top tier not second tier.

  • Comment number 96.

    ncfc_johnno

    all that moonshine you've been drinking must have scrambled your brain. It clearly states there that Ipswich have won the 1st division ( or old second division) three times and so have Norwich. The difference is, amare_ny that Ipswich have won the league( division 1, Championship, whatever you want to call it..) once more than Norwich have which is zero so it doesn't really matter what you called it...

    Oh, and since when was the Milk cup a major trophy?

  • Comment number 97.

    Ernieroom7 and amareny....

    if you care to take a look at the Football League Championship trophy - yes, the old one that's been in circulation for years and years - you will see that Ipswich have won it once and Norwich have won it once.

    Both names are clearly engraved on there once each - I know because I saw for my own eyes back in the summer of 2004 when we won the Football League ourselves, just like when you won the Football LEague in 1962. Oh yes, you probably haven't seen it close up in your lifetime, 1962 is quite a while back!

    Thankyou!

  • Comment number 98.

    ncfc_johnno

    Are you being pedantic or just plain stupid? Norwich have never won the highest division in England to put it plainly in terms you'll understand...or could you perhaps tell me when it was?

  • Comment number 99.

    ernieroom7

    As I said, Ipswich have won the Football League Championship once, Norwich have won the Football League Championship once. It's not a question of being pedantic, stupid or whatever you like to call it!

    Facts are facts and you will find I am spot on in what I have said above.

    Oh, and for the record, referring to your post #96 the League Cup became a major trophy in 1961, the year of its inception. Norwich have, to date, won it twice. Good luck in your semi-final against Arsenal and your quest to finally adding your name to the list of illustrious winners.

  • Comment number 100.

    Not sure why there is an argument about past histories on here, Ipswich have won the top division once, norwich have won the same trophy but it wasnt the top division at the time. Having said that Preston North End won the double in 1888, its history. The most important facts Now are neither side are likely to ever get close to winning the top tier again, and as the league table proves norwich are currently the better side, thats what matters. I personally think Ipswich will finish in the top half but i disagree with them having the better technical players. Maybe they can do more keepy uppies but that means nothing

 

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