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British Schools, Islamic Rules - join in the debate

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Eamonn Walsh | 13:26 UK time, Monday, 22 November 2010

In his investigation into what is being taught in Muslim faith schools in Britain, reporter John Ware uncovered a loophole in the regulation system when it comes to part-time schools and clubs that operate on weekends and after school.

Panorama's investigation discovered that around 5,000 Muslim children attending a network of 40 Saudi Students' Schools and Clubs are being taught the Saudi national curriculum.

John also uncovered a worrying trend towards separatism among some private Muslim full-time schools in the UK at a time when the number of Muslim schools is on the increase.

The programme, British Schools, Islamic Rules reveals disturbing evidence that some Muslim children are being exposed to extremist preachers and fundamentalist Islamic groups.

The film asks why school inspectors have missed the warning signs over elements of this teaching and examines the impact this could have on young Muslims' ability to integrate into mainstream British life.

Join in the debate and let us know what you think about the programme. Please leave your comments on our blog forum here.

Comments

Page 1 of 3

  • Comment number 1.

    Let us know your thoughts on the programme. Leave your comment here.

  • Comment number 2.

    Think it's only anti-semetism and homosexuality - Civitas, commissioned by the government I believe, looked into precisely what was being taught in some such schools and the full report makes rather hugely disturbing reading. They also put forward some suggestions on why Ofsted inspections might not have uncovered any problems - chilling reading. Looks like Panorama have finally uncovered the tip of a highly unpalatable iceberg. The Civitas press release can be found here: http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/prcs87.php
    but the full report no longer seems to be available for download. Needless to say the Government never seem to have acted on the advice they were supplied..

  • Comment number 3.

    First of all - in case you didn't know - in Gaza they use the same types of books, but there is no "Panorama" to inform about it.


    Wahhabism is just one form of Islam, but due to political and economical reasons this extreme form of Islam is propagated around the world thanks to the fact it is funded by the Saudi Kingdom, which is both one of the richest in the world and also hold a huge amount of population that lives in poverty.

    Allowing Wahhabism is a political crime which is done by all the governments of the world who are addicted to the Arab oil.

  • Comment number 4.

    Time and again, the Saudis (or wahhabis) have protested their innocence and their best intentions when extremist didactic material is found in mosques and islamic schools in Britain. Could someone please wake up and stop believing what they say and instead look at what they actually do?
    They give all sorts of assurances, and then continue the business of radicalisation as usual.

  • Comment number 5.

    'Extremist preachers'? Really because what these extremists saying comes directly from the Quran and whatnot. So then, is the Quran extreme?
    Jews were turned into monkeys and pigs, yes that's in the Quran as well.
    So what if it says that? Let's say He turned them into crocodiles and lions, would there be the same response? I don’t think so. It’s just the on-going exaggeration which people perform just to make Islam look bad. Heck weren’t we monkeys in the first place?
    'The answer - hell fire'
    Please. Can anyone explain to me what is so extreme about this?

  • Comment number 6.

    I am sure that in Mein Kampf , Hitler used language similar when describing Jews.Despite what the Politically lead think tanks of this country say , i for one am genuinely worried what kind of country my children will inherit.Certainly not the one i want them to have.It is said that by 2066 white christians will no longer be the majority.I am beginning to feel very disturbed by facts like this report.

  • Comment number 7.

    While I have not seen this episode of Panorama I am very concerned that any form of extremism can be taught in UK based faith schools (and no, I'm not a fan of any faith schools in the UK at all).

    While this is just one example concentrating on a form of Islamic faith school (Wahhabism), ALL faith schools should be scrutinised including all their text books, all their teachers etc as Islam is not the only religion that has extremist elements.

    The Government and all its educational agencies should set a standard that ALL faith schools MUST adhere to regardless of "who" may be sponsoring them and if they are found to be teaching in an unprescribed manner using texts or textbooks that are not approved they should either be appropriately censored or even closed down.

    In today's UK there is no room for any form of extremism in any form, let alone in "educational establishments" and those who are found to be teaching our young people should be taken to task for this!

  • Comment number 8.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 9.

    I strongly oppose all religion/faith based schools; I cannot they are other than centres for the indoctrination of the young.

    Islamic* schools seem more dangerous than Christian schools; the latter are not greatly at odds with British culture.

    We cannot tolerate multi-cultural Britain if the cultures are at odds with our own. When in Rome, behave on a way acceptable to the Romans...they were there first. If you were born in Rome you must accept Roman ways, like it or not. If you were born elsewhere and do not like Roman ways, go back home (it was your choice to move to Rome so it was you who screwed up...it is your problem). If you were born elsewhere and are willing to live in a way acceptable to the Romans, then the Romans will make you very welcome.

    The root of the problem is religion. As long as people believe in a big spooky-wooky inn the sky and cannot agree on the nature of that spooky there will be conflict. No evidence will help reconcile differing views because there cannot ever be evidence. Rather than worry about the nature of faith schools we should prohibit them, even outside normal school time. If we can prohibit smacking (a minor matter) we can prohibit indoctrination (far more serious...it is truly evil).

    *(there may be other faith schools but they do not seem to be a special problem, perhaps because of numbers).


  • Comment number 10.

    Hi guys,
    I just want to say the panorama is so obviously against islam and muslims, we never get a panorama about the fact that catholic priests abusing children or jewish schools?? none of the websites they have shown can be classed as genuine nor the imaams,, whos to say bbc didnt just pay someone off??, anyone can write anything on the internet!! i think its a absoloute waste of time and money of our tax payers money! this panorama is just provoking a violent backlash from muslims, and i hope that will not be the case!!

  • Comment number 11.

    Riyadh-ul-Haq read some verses from the opening chapter of the Quran (Al-Fatihah), which go along the lines of: Guide us to the straight path, the path of those you have favoured, not the path of those who face your wrath, nor the path of the misguided. As far as I am aware, classical interpretations of these verses state that the wrath of Allah is upon the Jews because they consistently rejected the Prophets sent to them (e.g. Jesus) and the misguided are the Christians because they went too far in their love for Jesus and started worshiping him. In my opinion, if you were to ask classically trained scholars 90-odd percent would give you the same opinion. All of this is no way means that Jews and Christians should be subject of ridicule or abuse and the vast majority of Muslims I believe would say the same thing.

  • Comment number 12.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 13.

    The actual focus of the entire programme is the minority (5%) of muslim students that attend privately funded schools said to be perpetrating extremist views. It then goes on to talk about the implications of segregation, referring to the 2001 Oldham riots between Asian and White communities, thus implying religion is synonymous with race. While the two are probably highly correlated in Oldham, this is a basic logical fallacy that was purely added for dramatic effect. Please, Panorama, don't slump to gutter press tactics.

  • Comment number 14.

    I can not belive its taken so long to find this out. I know for a fact that it is not only saudi schools that teach these ideas. I have seen the books for my self.

  • Comment number 15.

    Could be right alarming, but POORLY RESEARCHED, Very biased and not enough information, this look more like of the DAILY MAIL articles

  • Comment number 16.

    the programme is just showing a very small minority of muslims in britain. the large majority do not go to these extremist schools, nor do they study such extreme books. why cant the BBC, for once, show some positive things which the muslims do. i am a british muslim. i have chosen to send my children to a church of england school.why? because i strongly believe that the common beliefs of muslims and christians are very similar. we both believe in one god, we believe in the prophets and we believe in jesus. i just hope this doesnt affect peoples views on islam, as the portrayal of such a simple religion has been attacked time and time again. it is the small number of people in any religion who give a bad name to the rest.

  • Comment number 17.

    Yet again,it's all have based knowledge/views. John is obviously just taking out his frustration without any strong base argument. If you go into a strong middle class/ working class white area you will see alot of anti-islam, anti-asian/black practice, so obviously if you go into a strong Muslim area you will see the vice-versa. Thats life unfortunatly but Islam seems to be the only religion thats targeted.as always.

  • Comment number 18.

    Its shocking that OFSTED let hatred and prejudism be taught ANYWHERE in our education system. These school books teach children to call jews and christians 'monkeys and pigs'. They teach homophobia, sexism, and are baltantly against all western values. An utter disgrace.

  • Comment number 19.

    #5 AhmedTunisi is being honest if nothing else, though it takes some courage to say you think there is nothing wrong with impressionable schoolchildren being taught that Jews are the some of pigs and apes (or whatever). It is hard to see how this is an "ongoing exaggeration" to "make Islam look bad" since this is simply the Saudis being caught in the act of propagating their own extremism. what was the exaggeration?

  • Comment number 20.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 21.

    Here we go again......
    I love the way they said "Muslims do not want
    to intregrate".....
    Go to Stamford Hill and see how much the Jews are
    intregrating, furthermore the Oldham riots were not to
    do with "segregation" but to do with pure racial discrimination, which
    included the British police!
    Also Muslim children are been taught values and
    dignity and modesty. I would rather that, then my children watching
    music videos that may as well be passed as porn,
    getting pregnant, drunk and wearing mini skirts to school!
    When it comes to muslims it's ALWAYS taken out of context!!!

  • Comment number 22.

    These schools and whats been taught in some of them is hugely disturbing, why werent these loopholes closed sooner, they are a disgrace, I hope Michael Gove and his department will now intervene and shut these places down.

  • Comment number 23.

    Extremist preachers? This surely was a shocking program to watch, Islam is surely not extreme and does not teach its individual preachers to be against indivduals against different religions.
    As for the non-Muslims, they may contest the principles of Islam. They must know, however, that Islam does not present its principles drastically, for those who believe or wish to believe, exclusively. It does so rationally, critically. It comes to us armed with logical and coherent arguments and expects our acquiescence on rational, and hence necessary, grounds. It is not legitimate for us to disagree on the relativist basis of personal taste, or that of subjective experience.
    Islam does not teach to be against people of a different race or religion but teaches to live with unity and as one. Why can't everybody remain sensible and have a broad mind instead of over exaggerating to such an extent that the peace unfolds and war and racism begins? ? ? Also, please note the hands and feet being chopped off was a traditional thing that happened and has never happened any where besides saudi arabia and can i also mention that this no longer happens in saudi arabia and has stopped a long time back. I went to a muslim mosque and have never been taught any of that which was mentioned in that program and have personally got many friends from different religions and backgrounds, infact i dont see why that should be a problem individuals have the freedom of speech and have the right to follow and believe what they want,Thanks.

  • Comment number 24.

    If I distributed literature demeaning Muslims I would no doubt be arrested, I hope the coalition will act quickly and deal with the perpetrators of this evil. They must be dealt with rigorously by the courts of this land,even if there are many thousands of offenders. We cannot appease these criminals for the sake of our children.

  • Comment number 25.

    The exact same teachings are being taught in Mosques as well as schools, CH4 documentary undercover mosque and the return, same types of teachings going on. When will the government step in and close these establishments down, they are counter productive to society and only further the already widening divide. Islam has no place in modern society; it goes against our secular beliefs of freedom for all. Islam sees all non-Muslims as lesser beings. I am more shocked that the BBC, which for so long has peddled the belief that Islam is a religion of peace, actually produced this documentary.

  • Comment number 26.

    As a child my mother would strike fear into my heart if I lifted anything that wasn't my own by telling me "In some countries they cut off your hand for that". However right or wrong she may have been at the time I'm completely shocked that this is going on in the schools of the UK.

    It must stop or this type of educational hatred will take us to a darker place. Kudos to those of the Islamic faith that make a stand against intolerance.

  • Comment number 27.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 28.

    I chose to watch channel 4 dispatches: blasts in Pakistan. A bomb every 4 days, that's the work of extremists. These terrorists have no religion, only have one motive to kill. Doesn't matter about your faith, age, gender, nothing counts. And just to point out the obvious, the victims in these blasts are Muslim.
    Parents in the UK should be responsible and make sure what their kids are being taught is legite, it doesn't matter who's funding the school. And how dare people judge the content of a religion. If Islam says all non believers are destined for hellfire then that is a belief, if it concerns people then ignore it, but you can't stop billion of muslims believing in aspects of their religion!!

  • Comment number 29.

    Islam is a peaceful religion, in my mosque they used to teach me, that SAYING ANYTHING NEGATIVE TO ANY OTHER RELIGION IS HARAM ( FORBIDDEN ).
    And whats this about being a disbeliever or immoral person if you befriend a non-muslim person.

    I STATE, In the Quran it says!! 3:144: "O you who have believed, do not take the disbelievers as allies instead of the believers. Do you wish to give Allah against yourselves a clear case?"

    It says make a MUSLIM friend INSTEAD than a non-Muslim friend, the reason being that there will/maybe be conflict between you and that person in terms of belief. And that matter is solved by befriending a Muslim person. I have had many non-muslim friends when i was in primary school.

    By the way, whats so wrong about cutting the hand or foot of a person if they STEAL/LIE/CHEAT they deserve it for doing such a horrible thing!.

    And how do you know what goes on in ALL Muslim after school clubs, my mosque NEVER USED to teach me about blowing yourself up like an IDIOT and call yourself a maytr of Allah and i was told they are the ones that go to Hell ( ARE YOU SAYING THAT IS BAD!!?? ), and NEVER used to tell me to say bad things about other people.

    There is a minority messing it up for the majority and giving Islam a bad name.

    Thanks for Reading.
    (btw Read_Properly)

  • Comment number 30.

    Extremism is not the problem. Jesus Christ died for his enemies and his extreme followers are prepared to lay down their lives rather than retaliate when they come under attack. The same cannot be said for Mohammed and the people who follow him. It was good to see these schools being exposed but disturbing to hear evangelical Christians being mentioned in the same programme. Evangelicals are people who love Jesus, who love people and love their enemies.

  • Comment number 31.

    Islam, like all three major faiths, frowns on homosexuality. What a revelation.

    Islam, like all three major faiths, believes anyone who doesn't follow it is damned. What a revelation.

    Muslims feel their values clash with Western values. What a revelation. So to fully assimilate Muslims should abandon their faith and indulge in drinking, fornicating and gambling, things accepted in the West?

    Wahab is one of the names and attributes of Allah so to use it as a slight, as many ignorant Muslims do, is a sin in itself.

    And before you label Islam and Muslims are anti-Semitic remember It wasn't the Muslims who killed six million Jews and it wasn't the Muslims who persecuted Jews throughout Europe from the Middle Ages and beyond. Of course tensions between the two faiths are high, no thanks to the stupidity of the British following WW2.

  • Comment number 32.

    I am a Science teacher in a very good Islamic School in Manchester, I am writing to show my disappointment about what is purely a piece of totally biased reporting on Muslim schools by the bbc. I am spending time tomorrow in a Buddhist temple as part of our schools continous community cohesion programme and this is what we get the night before. As a license fee payer to the bbc and feel totally maligned by the organisation.

  • Comment number 33.

    Wow, it shocks me to see what some schools are teaching, especially in such a diverse society as Britain. Schools should not be teaching such ignorance and people should not never think that this is the way all muslims behave. I have noticed some who dislike the religion as a whole due to the actions of a few individuals. This, in itself, is wrong as they are therefore being a hypocrite as they are doing the actions they themselves are claiming to object. However, I still believe that what these 'individuals' ae doing is wrong and should not be accepted. Islam is a religion which is based on peace and respect and those who do not respect others should not be regarded as muslims but ignorant, immoral people who wrongly communicate the beliefs and teachings of such a peaceful and diverse religion. Another thing I have noticed is that during the television programme, the words 'Asian' and 'Muslim' were not being conveyed in an accurate manner. All muslims are NOT Asian nor are all Asians muslims. I, myself, am a convert to Islam and my family are of English,Irish, Christian and Jewish descent. What does that make me? There are one billion muslims worldwide and thousands are of European, white and African descent. They are NOT all Asians. I hope panorama takes this into consideration the next time they choose to label all muslims as being of "Asian" descent. Thank you and I hope I have conveyed successfully, MY point of view.

    Nicole Duggan, British teenager

  • Comment number 34.

    This is a secular, democratic and free country that deeply believes in freedom of expression however this should not be an invitation to segregation. As a born muslim myself, I keep asking myself, do we really need muslim schools? Do these schools help the integration of young muslims into British society? What will Britain gain from these schools other than segregated and disillusioned young children full of hate to other religions and civilisations.
    This is not the way forward in my view; I don’t see any need for muslim schools. Muslims should be encouraged to integrate effectively in to British society and actively participate in this country's welfare rather then isolating themselves in a small world of their own.
    Books inciting hate and provocation, describing the followers of other faiths as "monkeys & pigs", or calling for barbaric acts like cutting hand & feet should not be the sort of material taught in British schools, in fact this should not be taught in any civilised society.
    Finally, in order to win the war on terrorism we should also turn our attention to muslim children & youngsters to prevent them from being radicalised and brain washed by poisonous materials and ideologies.
    We are all in this together...

  • Comment number 35.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 36.

    As usual John Ware is scare mongering again! Any programme presented by him are biased and divisive, as if the riots in Oldham had anything to do with Islamic Schools; it is most likely to do with failing state sector education. Segregation is still evident in state sector education caused though “white flight” from multi ethnic areas and schools only admitting children from the catchment areas. Why is it Islam that is under the microscope again, look for dirt in any community and you will find it.

  • Comment number 37.

    The BBC really need to make it clear that 'Muslim faith' schools do not dedicate 6 hours every Saturday and Sunday to teaching 'anti-Semitic' opinions portrayed in the curriculum.

    I went to a weekend Arabic school for 10 years, as well as normal school. I was taught sciences, humanities, maths, even art as well as the religious studies you seem to have singled out. It is very important to me that I went to Arabic school because I learnt about Arabic scientists such as Alhazen, AlMawardi, Ibn Sahl, and AlZahrawi who contributed so much but are rarely given credit. I learnt about a different history, the Islamic Golden Age and how it affected life today, in addition to a plenty of other extremely important facts the British curriculum fails to mention.

    Our 'Muslim' schools teach us a lot more than what was mentioned in the Panorama programme.



    Also, if the government really do consider these schools 'British', then the government - as well as censoring them - should also be obligated to make sure these schools have as equal opportunities and standards as all other British schools.

  • Comment number 38.

    It amazes me why these people, who are openly anti western, are living in a western country. Why does this country tolerate this behavior.What would happen to me in a Muslim country if I was calling them the enemy and using their education system to create a segregated society with extremist anti Muslim views?
    I do however believe we are our own worst enemies, surely common sense should have prevailed when allowing any faith run schools.

  • Comment number 39.

    If you teach a child, as is the tradition of the two larger Abrahamic religions, that it's deity will punish with eternal torture those of different religions or of no religion, you are surely teaching the child that those people are less important, less deserving of respect, and ultimately untermenschen.

  • Comment number 40.

  • Comment number 41.

    TomNightingale wrote : 'As long as people believe in a big spooky-wooky inn the sky'. As opposed to the disciples of Darwin and Dawkins who believe the bang bang was the result of a random act and that we all descended from apes. To us YOUR religion and it's teachings are just as dangerous.

  • Comment number 42.

    And also the thing about Music, its not TOTALLY HARAM, it is to the extent that our children are listening to things about 'sex, violence, hatred, gangs, getting a girl/boy, alcohol etc' when they should be listening to things praising their own religion or basically good things that are not harmful to the child.

  • Comment number 43.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 44.

    i think that the things that panorama have said about islam is total and utter rubbish. Just because the Saudi Arabian books teach children that Jews are pigs and monkeys, doesnt mean to say that Islam teaches that. In fact, Muslims are taught to respect other people regardless of their religion or race.

  • Comment number 45.

    As someone who has tramped the streets in the old 'apartheid' South Africa canvassing for an anti-apartheid party, I find the idea of an incoming (Islamic) population that has an intolerant and 'racist' attitude that is not compatible with the indigenous population to be as abhorrent as that of the 'incoming' (white) population in the old SA having their apartheid attitudes.
    As someone who has been a life-time atheist, but one who can see the value of people having religious beliefs, I find intolerant religious beliefs to be abhorrent. Sadly Islam appears to me to be leading in this intolerance...
    We should have no place for that in this country. If they want to be like that, go away and do it somewhere else. There should no place for apartheid or Nazis in this country…

  • Comment number 46.

    Islam as a religion condemns Homosexuality, even if Muslim kids didn't attend such schools they'll be taught this by parents or by reading they do themselves. As a muslim I don't believe homosexuality is right but I don't walk around scolding gay couples for holding hands or crashing LGBT events.

    The Quran states that there were many people who disbobeyed Gods orders some of which were the Jews. Not the Jews of today or WW2 but the jews millenia ago. Having said that the Quran doesn't encourage the killing of Jew's or the mistreatment of Jews because of this. The show was poorly researched and poorly explained.

    I just finished watching it and I'm dissappointed to see that it ended on a low note, no reassurance that the mentioned controversial schools are in the minority. It really paints a grim picture, something groups like the EDL and BNP will pounce on and use.

    John Ware seems to be looking for popularity by filming a highly exaggerated scaremongering documentary that only seems to be inducing more irrational fear and INCREASING segregation for Britians Muslim population.


    Well Done John Ware, You may have made the lives of Muslims in Britain that small bit harder to live.

  • Comment number 47.

    I find it hard to believe that this is being taught on British soil. Our childres are taught to respect other faiths and are given lessons in all faiths in order that they will grow up with more understanding of different religions. Why, if we are hated soo much in this country, do these people even want to come and live with us. We have a majority of Christian, Catholics, and others, we celebrate Christmas, but so not to offend other religions we have to change things to suit in our schools, This is wrong, We are too affraid of upsetting others, our politicians are to politically correct and think we have to change things to suite in fear of offending others, Wake up Britian and be proud of who you are.
    We as a nation would never preach hatred, far from it, our bible says love thy neighbour. If they are taught to hate, why are they being taught in the UK, Why not in their own country? Maybe they like the handouts that come with this great Nation and we like idiots pay for them to live in our coucil houses, use our Doctors, hospitals and get benefits. So they are welcomed with open arms, given what they need and behind our backs are teaching the next generation to hate anyone who is a non beliver. These people must think they have struck gold coming to the UK, When will our Goverment stop others taking us all for idiots, THis is the only country that would allow this to happen . The money that we put into providing these places for these teachings and all the other costs that go into these people, would be better put to use with our poor elderly and homeless. and then the goverment have the cheak to make cuts. Cut the waste on others and start looking after our own

  • Comment number 48.

    i feel it is none other than the media and the government that is creating the segregation by portraying Islam in this manner and this manner only. when do you ever see all the positive contributions muslims actually make (other than the passing comments). when do you actually see muslims on TV when they are making positive contributions in the UK and live peaceful, integrated lives in the community. how can society make an informed decision about muslims when there is no balance/justice in what is being shown.

    it is sad that Islam is portrayed in this way. everything being taken out of context. how do you understand a book without a beginning and an end? anyone with intellect would not read the middle of a book and consider he has understood the whole book, rather he would read it all, beginning, middle and end and then make an informed decision about the book. muslims/islam deserves the same.

    Muslims are constantly demonised in the media and it is starting to make me wonder, where is all this fear coming from? often people are scared of things that are stating the truth (the qur'an)and goes against peoples own whims and desires or things that one does not understand. i suggest people read and understand the whole qur'an before passing a judgement on muslims and Islam. it is actually a very peaceful religion which contains the solutions for all of humanities problems, if they are willing to live by it wholeheartedly.

    i just want to leave you with something to think about: when a muslim woman wears the veil and she has the right to do so as we live in a country that talks about valuing people's religion, beliefs and diversity, well when a woman wearing a veil goes to get a job, how likely is it that she will get that job? the answer is not very likely, actually it is most unlikely. is it down to her qualifications or her skills at this point or is it that people are just not willing to let muslims integrate in this society? and we hear so many speeches about how the UK is a country that so longs for integration? if you ask a Jewish person to take off his hat, this would be unacceptable, if you ask a nun to remove her head scarf, there would be an uproar (ever wondered how similar nun's are to a muslim woman in terms of dress) if you ask a Siekh man to remove his turban this would be discrimination, yet muslims are constantly told to remove their religious garments and this is widely accepted by society.

    the bible and the torah talk about sodomy and theft and the punishments for these. they also state that the person who dies upon a religion other than the religion it preaches will go to the hell fire. why is this so shocking? if a programme is going to scrutinise a religion then it should scrutinise all religions that preach similar things. islam, christianity and judaism are more similar than the media would like to portray. so why is the attack on islam alone??

  • Comment number 49.

    I think the BBC should be ashamed of themselves for airing such a programme in an extremely biased and uninformed way. The views of a very small minority were portrayed as the views of a whole religion and I think that is wrong. In a country where there is much bad feeling towards muslims I think it is important that we focus on ways of improving integration rather than focussing on the views of a minority. I believe that faith schools do promote segregation but it is not just muslim schools that are guilty of this, I think if the evangelical christian schools were scrutinised in the same way, equally shocking results would be found.

  • Comment number 50.

    I am very surprised to see the BBC putting out such a poor quality program. As a white British Christian I felt that such a poorly reseached and heavily biased documentry is just furthering any sort of inter faith understanding. The amount of quotes and passages taken out of context was outrageous. It is this sort of manipulation of religious texts by extremists that causes the problems in the first place; please don't compound the problems. A documentry about some of the shocking ideas that some 'Christians' aspire to would have been just as easy to make.

  • Comment number 51.

    This was a particularly riveting edition of Panorama, which - if in any sense true - points to movements afoot among the rapidly multiplying numbers of school-age Muslims in Britain today that are truly terrifying.

    Sadly, however, it is undoubtedly worth reflecting that what Brits have most to 'thank' for this menacing state of affairs (the degree of it, certainly) is Tony Blair's unstinting yet thoroughly unjustified backing for G.W.Bush and the Jewish lobby in Washington.

  • Comment number 52.

    @inyerface 9.12 p.m.

    " Thats life unfortunatly but Islam seems to be the only religion thats targeted.as always"/

    ------------------------

    Seems fair enough. Christianity (which I deride as much as I deride Islam) fits well within British Culture (even RC does). Other religions seem to keep themselves to themselves or are too small to be a worry.

    Islam seems to clash with our culture.We, rightly, defend it. Muslims (in UK) must adapt to British ways (as many, perhaps most, have). It is a bit like Mohammad having to go to mountain, rather than the other way.

  • Comment number 53.

    I am struck by the numbering of people suggesting that the revelations on tonight's Panorama are normal among faith communities. They are not normal. The very worst you can say about ultra-orthodox Jewish schools is that they do not promote integration. But they also do not promote violence or hatred of others and they educate a tiny fraction of British Jewish students (perhaps no more than 1,000) mainly in Ofsted-inspected state schools. The overwhelming majority of Jewish schools promote diversity, tolerance and pride and integration within British society.

  • Comment number 54.

    It is appaling to think this may be going on in even 1 school in the UK. Apart from the archaic content in these books, these divisions are dividing communities. What I want to know is what is being done to stop this?
    Children don't know any better than to believe what they read in books and are told by Adults. People need to step up and speak against the fiction they are reading. We know this is just a section of society, let's expose the guilty parties and end this!

  • Comment number 55.

    Peter Johns - Islamic texts predate Mein Kampf by centuries so to draw any type of comparison is ridiculous. There was no Holocaust or Genocide by Muslim hands when Muslims ruled over Jews and Christians in the Middle East, a rule which was of course briefly interrupted by the Crusaders.

    I share your concerns about what kind of country my children will inherit but please explain to me how a tiny percentage of the population who have minimal influence are responsible for the appalling lack of morality this once great country, now fuelled by alcohol, greed and the breakdown of the family unit, has been consumed by?

  • Comment number 56.

    there is a comment above that states the following:

    We cannot tolerate multi-cultural Britain if the cultures are at odds with our own. When in Rome, behave on a way acceptable to the Romans...they were there first. If you were born in Rome you must accept Roman ways, like it or not. If you were born elsewhere and do not like Roman ways, go back home (it was your choice to move to Rome so it was you who screwed up...it is your problem). If you were born elsewhere and are willing to live in a way acceptable to the Romans, then the Romans will make you very welcome.

    i want to ask, what are so many 'roman' troops doing in so many muslim countries then? if the ones who were born elsewhere do not like the roman ways should go back 'home', when they return home, the romans are over there too! but i guess it's okay for the roman's to do this!!!!!




  • Comment number 57.

    As usual, this program, like so many of its kind, has grossly misrepresented the teachings of such institutions by taking very minor parts of the curriculum out of context and blowing them out of proportion. Whether or not one agrees with the content of a religious scripture, its followers should have the right to study its teachings and the history behind it openly and there should be no shame in doing so. The Qur’an and the religion of Islam do not preach hatred or violence against the innocent, contrary to the inflammatory media propaganda which portrays them in this ugly light.
    It seems that Muslims, who it might be added also pay their license fees, are being targeted once again for no investigation was made into any other faith schools in the program. The aims of the program are thus clear; to damage the image of Muslim institutions in the UK as a whole, bringing them into disrepute in order to squeeze them out of British society, despite the fact that the great majority of them are working for the greater good of our society.
    The Muslims of the UK once again stand disappointed and let down by the British Broadcasting Corporation.

  • Comment number 58.

    The previous government, doubtless out of the usual good intentions to which the way to hell is paved, made a HUGE mistake when they started to give state funding to Muslim schools. The way out of the inequity of having state funding for Christian and Jewish schools only is surely to STOP giving state funding to ANY religious school. Of course the phasing out would have to be done gradually so as not to damage the chances of children already in the system - but a pledge to do this would surely have removed the pressure to start allowing schools which work to a mediaeval curriculum. It is not too late - the coalition are embarking on all kinds of major changes - with most of which I disagree - but here is an opportunity to stop using taxpayers money on institutions that seek to undermine the very principles for which the tax is paid.

  • Comment number 59.

    7. At 8:43pm on 22 Nov 2010, John Somers wrote as part of his comment.

    "While this is just one example concentrating on a form of Islamic faith school (Wahhabism), ALL faith schools should be scrutinised including all their text books, all their teachers etc as Islam is not the only religion that has extremist elements."

    I actually wrote to the programme & sent this link :-
    http://charactercounts.org/michael/2010/09/fools_rush_in_where_angels_fea.html
    commenting that not only The Bible and The Torah along with The Koran preached the same as the programme referred to.

    The link includes the text of Michael Josephson :-
    "Then they read me story after story from that same sacred text where tens of thousands of men, women and children were murdered in the cruelest of manners because they wouldn’t worship the right God or follow the commandments of his prophet.
    It was awful and of course embarrassing, because every one of those quotations I just shared was taken from our Torah, from the Jewish Bible. (Jeremiah 48:10; Deuteronomy 18:20; Jeremiah 50:21-22; Deuteronomy 7:16-24; Deuteronomy 7:1-4; Zephaniah 3:6-10; Jeremiah 25:33)
    I was sitting reading them in a study session with a group of Muslim religious leaders who were trying to understand how they could ever trust Jews when our most sacred scriptures are so clearly filled with hatred, violence, murder and absolute intolerance of anyone who doesn’t worship our God"




  • Comment number 60.

    Whenever you say the word (Wahhabism) then disregarded the comments because it comes from some one who is knowledge about Islam is no different than any Jew or Christian.

    I just wonder why the picked Ali al Ahamed from The US ( a Saudi from the minority Sheiat who is in exile) can not they find any other Saudi in London to talk about this Issue ?!! it’s not hard to find one in oxford street or regent park.

    It’s a Historic fact the Jews never lived in peace and harmony as they did during the Islamic Civilization and Islamic school was even more extreme and strict then the so called Islamic schools now.

    All subjects where discussed were not clear nor true simply you need to read these books to see for yourself that they did not understand what was said there !!!



  • Comment number 61.

    In recent times Richard Dawkins has complained bitterly about religious indoctrination of impressionable children.
    This program endorses these opinions.
    The dogma of Islam is clearly of a supremacist,totalitarian character
    indoctrinating young minds with its cult of hate for the infidel.
    Inculcation of sedition with respect to the majority should be a matter of urgent concern.
    What amazes me is that the evidence supports the charge that Islam is a seditious political movement masquerading as a religion.
    As one Muslim says we are all in this together.
    This is NOT the view of the other contributors with Muslim names.
    A self imposed apartheid seems to be their metier.

  • Comment number 62.

    In my humble opinion: I was disappointed with the objectivity of the program which is less than the usual standard of BBC documentary programs. There are around 7000 Saudis students in the UK; it was possible to host one of them to tell his side of the story. The accent of the undercover Saudi student does not sound Saudi at all. I don’t understand why the programme represented a Political opponent from the Shi'a minority, which has a history of hostility with the Saudi government and his a well-Known for his biased positions against the government (the Sunni-majority) as pervious Saudi students. If what has been said is true
    you’ll find that millions of Saudis, who have studied these materials have become a terrorist during the past hundred years which is not the case.

  • Comment number 63.

    It is obvious that Muslims who are addressing this disturbing subject are in a state of shock and DENIAL of facts and reality.
    The verses of the Quran in perfectly clear Arabic -happens to be my mother tongue from Iraq- are Hatemongering, Warmongering, Misogynist & Racist.
    The Quran is NOT only anti Semitic but ALSO anti all Unbelivers constituting 80% of current Humanity: Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroasterians, Jews, Animists, Agnostics, Atheits, Pagans etc.
    To those who are in disbelief, please take up challenges to disprove any and all of the above worth Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars.
    Just Google 'al rassooli' and be ASTOUNDED.

  • Comment number 64.

    The documentary was so ridiculous it became actually quite funny.
    I feel sorry for all the individuals who watched the programme and got mugged. Couldn't fool me nor most of the fair minded viewers though.
    This cheap form of journalism is merely an attempt to curry up and egg on islamaphobia. Shameful - quite frankly considering this is where TV liscence fee has been wasted.
    Has Rupert Murdock already moved into White City ... or was this just the sending of a sweetner paving the way for him to enter the television centre?

  • Comment number 65.


    By the way, this might surprise you, but it does not say that Jews and Christians are PIGS and APES in the Qur’an... It says that the Jews who BROKE the Sabbath were punished by God turning them into "apes". Other verses clearly state that there were Jews that advised the Sabbath breakers not to do so meaning: there were Jews who were doing the right thing and were trying to help others do the right thing also, following their commandment.

    Wahhabism is just one form of extremism in the UK, but it’s not the only form of extremism. Wahhabism is a small sect within Islam and the advocators of Wahhabism use a lot of money in order to widely circulate their intolerant teaching.

    I can see why this might alarm the general public however I assure you their views are not the commonly held views of all Muslims. Anyone with basic knowledge of Islam can see straight through their propaganda.

    Here is a suggestion for the BBC. Though I found this doc entertaining why don’t you do a similar programme on other faith schools? Like you showed in the beginning of the programme there are Jewish as well as Christian schools which share similar, vulgar, intolerant views of others, in the UK; teaching hate and segregation. Why doesn’t the BBC expose them also? It’s about time you added a little balance to the BBC is all I’m saying.

    Peace to all

  • Comment number 66.

    I think it is shocking that the BBC has broadcast such a biased, poorly informed and sensationalist programme.

    With the current widespread feeling of 'Islamophobia' in our country, largely caused by the tabloid papers, the Muslim minority in this country is increasingly feeling isolated and threatened. The fact that the BBC is adding to the misconceived view of Islam and British Muslims is appalling. The programme was poorly researched, poorly presented and overall reached no valid conclusions, and whilst doing so presented an incriminating view of Muslim faith schools and the wider Muslim community.

    If the programme was addressing the (in my opinion) much needed debate about faith-schools in our country and their influence on social segregation it did so inadequately by barely mentioning any other forms of religious schools, such as Christian or Jewish schools and providing no evidence of these schools' effect on segregation.

    If the idea was to address the issue of whether the small branch of radical Islam was seeping into Muslim faith schools, then this question was also tackled very inadequately, showing only tenuous and badly explained links between various Muslim clerics, text books and a fatwa issuing institutions with some Muslim-faith schools.

    There is little excuse for the use of specific religious terminology that was used in the programme and not explained, thus prohibiting the viewer from reaching an informed conclusion from the evidence provided, such as the terms 'fatwa' (widely misunderstood)and 'hadith'.

    The text books shown were clearly those published by the fundamentalist Wahhabist/Salafist sect in Saudi Arabia, not published by any British Muslim-faith school, and thus the books’ content cannot be used against these schools. If these are being used in any of the schools in Britain it should have been made clear which parts of the books were being studied and how the 'controversial' issues in them were being taught in class.

    Finally the programme really drew no conclusions that will help our society. No real suggestions were made as to how faith-schools encourage can exist whilst encouraging integration and tolerance as well as no suggestion of how to ensure that religious extremism does not penetrate the teaching in our schools.

  • Comment number 67.

    It's about time parents, teachers and religious ministers stopped teaching children to hate. Hatred only breeds misery. violence only invites revenge and this brings more misery. We have one world if everyone worked as hard to make it a better place rather than harming each other we would be living in Paradise by now.

  • Comment number 68.

    I hate it when people say..
    "If you dont like it then leave the country or go back to where you came from"
    The country does not 'belong' to any one person or ethnic minority to make such comments.
    There are many white british muslims in this country. What would you say to them.. "Go back to where you came from.. which is erm.. Britain"
    Many ethnic minorities and Muslims have integrated into society and are the Doctors, Lawyers and Accountants of Britain.
    Also, are the BBC physically unable to document the GOOD that british muslims are doing within the country or even document the good that Islam teaches, just as Christianity and other religions do? Maybe the BBC just doesnt have the time to try and help establish good relations between British muslims and non-muslims. Shame the BBC doesnt show anything about the good of religion. Seems like the BBC is run by secular athiests..

  • Comment number 69.

    I have been teaching at a Saudi University for a year. Last year I did an exercise with my students where they named famous people they considered a hero/good role model. Several said, unashamedly, Hitler. He killed millions of "subhuman" Jews - he was a good man. The Saudi curriculum produces anti-semitism, sexism and religious intolerance. You are not allowed into the country if you have an Israeli stamp on your passport.
    I respect the laws of the land I live in - I dress conservatively, don't approach/talk to Saudi women or drink alcohol on Saudi territory. I don't use my Christian faith as an excuse to break Saudi Law, though it states I can drink and mix with women (in fact under Sharia (but not Saudi)Law I can drink in the company of non-muslims). Shame on Muslims who show such contempt, trying to poison young minds in their host country, the UK. It's high time the UK government did more to stop Islamists spreading their ignorance and hate. Nothing should be ruled out including trade sanctions against the KSA and deportation from/barring entry to the UK for those inciting hatred and violating religious freedom.
    Well done Panorama for a thorough investigation. If there's one criticism I'd have though about the programme it's that the distinction between the "Evangelical Christian school" "condemning the religion of Islam" (which is not incitement to hate) and some Muslim schools condemning all individuals in certain religions rather than the ideology itself was not clear.

  • Comment number 70.

    IQ al Rassooli Muslims are not in denial of anything nor do we have problems with the verses in the Qur'an. Peddle your silly little website somewhere else.

    I don't recall any concerns over the radicalisation of Muslim youth in Britain prior to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Of course that’s purely coincidental.

  • Comment number 71.

    The Saudi Government has been funding this type of religious supremacy in the UK for years, a simple solution for this (if the Govt weren't so interested in Saudi oil) would be to halt all funds from the Saudi Government that are used to promote this backward ideology.
    If the Government does not act on this, then it will be left down to the groups such as the EDL and BNP to deal with it, do we really want Neo-Nazis at the forefront of dealing with this growing problem?
    There is also enough knowledge out about the different traditions within Islam to stop people who follow these traditions from entering the country as migrants.

  • Comment number 72.


    Michael Gove was clear that such literature and attitudes were completely unacceptable.

    The real question that he wasn't asked is what exactly is he going to do about it?

    He doesn't need to wait for a committee to report or another investigation to be completed before taking decisive action now.

    The very root of the problem is with faith schools themselves and government endorsement of them. Afraid of being seen to treat Islamic schools differently from other faith schools and terrified of upsetting the Saudi's - the government are paralysed by indecision and refuse to commit themselves to any course of action.

    Therefore, I don't think anything will be done unless Michael Gove is put under significant pressure to act and that will involve the full, intensive spot light of media pressure as well as the subsequent public outrage.

    What is required is a comprehensive system of spot checks from Ofsted and they would need to be given the full legal powers to closed down ANY school that does not conform or come up to standard.

    It is not a difficult idea - all that is missing is the genuine political will to make it happen.


  • Comment number 73.

    Saudi Arabia knows that the world will eventually rob its oil and they want to prevent this by promoting Sharia through childrens' text books - ensuring support. Fundamentalism makes no appeal to the rational mind so the idea of legislating around education seems doomed. Far better to promote moderate muslims into existing power structures and offer poorer muslim communities skills and education that are free and more useful to them than how to amputate limbs. But you can imagine the Daily Mail's reaction to that suggestion. This was one of those good but far too short Panoramas that raised more questions than it answered. This whole subject deserves The White Season treatment.

  • Comment number 74.

    Right - let's make this "simples", eh?
    Are there schools, teaching & thereby encouraging young people to:
    Single out people of different ethnic/religious backgrounds - and brand them as "wrong" in some way? - YES
    Demonstrating, how to carry out a form of "justice" (in the loosest terms of the word) - that is illegal in the country that they have choosen to reside in & involves details on how to severe feet & hands ? - YES
    That state that Homosexuals can be stoned, burnt, thrown off a cliff, for having a same sex preference - YES
    That music is deliberately designed as being anti their religion? - YES
    Should this be allowed to continue - NO
    Why, if a person finds that the rules of the country that they live/born in, clash so strongly with their personal, spiritual beliefs - do they continue to live in such an obviously "offensive" country.
    I can't bear the taste of aniseed, so I avoid things like, Pernod & liquorice - I don't teach others to hate aniseed or say that aniseed is evil or describe the ways in which it can be destroyed.
    All nations/faiths etc - have things such as passports, planes & boats.
    Why not make use of those & take your personal notions of life & go somewhere that would more suit your required way of life.
    And while the Earth does not "technically" belong to any one, there's nothing to stop anyone moving somewhere where they'd feel more comfortable, as their views would be more in line with others, is there? As for Islam/Muslim faiths getting "picked on" - if these things weren't taught - there couldn't have been a programme made about them, could there?
    Any Koffars with half a brain, know that the people doing this, are a minority. Hate breeds hate, ignorance breeds ignorance - and that doesn't matter what your faith, non-faith, colour or creed is - it's true.

  • Comment number 75.

    Shame on the BBC and panorama, once again they are alienating the Muslims
    and creating Islam phobia.
    And providing ammunition to the *real* extremists.

    The programme was poorly researched, they should have interview intellectual
    Muslim scholars and not laymen from the street to interpret verses from the
    Qur'an.

    But obviously the BBC was bent on creating more divide with the Muslims.
    Everyone know the words "Muslims" make news and headlines.

    This riyad ul haq chap, i mean this scholar is known world wide for his
    tolerance and integration,,and lol they say his a extremist..what planet are
    you living in. why didn't panorama interview him and ask what he had to
    say..?, I mean that would have made sense..

    You cant take bit and bobs out of a video lecture and say someone's a
    extremist...or has extremist views...I mean come on lets be professionals..

    Bit's and Bob's is are for desperate people..

    Lets have the next panorama program on evangelical faith schools, Jewish
    faith schools,Catholic faith school etc...That's a challenge to you the
    BBC..

    Then lets see who teaches what...????

  • Comment number 76.


    Anyone who is concerned with Islamic extremism being taught at Islamic faith schools or with faith schools generally should write to their MP, demanding to know precisely what action they're going to take:

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/



  • Comment number 77.

    TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE POSTING COMMENTS OR ARE READING THEM, MY SUGGESTION IS IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS WHY DONT YOU ATTEND THESE MUSLIM SCHOOLS OR ORGANISE A MEETING WITH SHAYKH RIYADHUL HAQ AND OTHERS TO HEAR THEIR SIDE OF THE STORY?
    YOU DONT WANT TO DO THAT BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE SO SO SO DISSAPOINTED BY THE FACT THAT THIS PROGRAMME WAS UTTERLY OFF THE MARK.
    I ALWAYS ARGUED WITH MY MUSLIM FRIENDS THAT WE ARE NOT BIASED OR UNFAIR.
    AFTER WATCHING THIS I AM SO HURT.
    HOW CAN I FACE THEM

  • Comment number 78.

    We are all being told to make cuts, but I didn’t think the world's longest running investigative TV show would make cuts and compromise the quality of investigative work. It is shocking to see a picture being painted which is so far from the reality. The programme repeated unfounded allegations against Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq. If you care to listen to 1000 hours plus of his talks, all freely available, spanning over 15 years or so, you will see the message is not one of hate or extremism but quite the opposite. He is role model for many Muslims. The programme makes allegations and assertions, and that’s all they are, on one of UK’s leading Islamic establishment, Jameah Uloom of Leicester. It takes extracts from written and spoken material out of context and accuses those under its microscope of the same. What hypocrisy. Above all, it shows a gross lack of understanding of Islam. It is this sort of sensationalising that we Muslims are so use to now from the gutter press and the likes of EDL. I wouldn’t be surprised if one was to visit EDL website now they will be asking all their followers to watch this programme and reinforce their message of hate. Thanks BBC for bashing Islam and alienating further the Muslims, both young and old.

  • Comment number 79.

    Muslim friends, please stop with this victimization routine - I don't believe the world is out to "get" you, or that the BBC is out to "get" you either. OK it's possible they are biased and want to scaremonger, but please listen to what I have to say - I believe it's important, thanks.

    They just uncovered some disturbing Saudi-backed curricula being taught to thousands of Muslim kids. Yes, it might be a minority of schools that teach it, but still the fact is that these schools currently teach this stuff. So instead of venting your frustration about being victimized, I think rather you should look internally and ask why these curricula are in circulation - who is behind it - and why. Even if the BBC is biased, even if you have been targeted, still the questions remain: what will you do personally to find out why these texts are out there, what will you do to protest against this minority who teach it, where can you debate and protest against it? If you think it's a disgrace to have such texts out there, then SPEAK OUT against it, protest it, debate it. If you don't speak out, everyone will assume that you agree with it – which perhaps you do, I don’t know – so far, this is the impression people get when seeing Muslim reaction to this kind of thing.

    The problem I have is that I hear lots of protests from Muslims to revelations like this, but they are usually protests of being victimized, or protests that Islam is not really like it's been portrayed, and so on. But I don't often hear Muslims speak out against whatever issue is at stake: I don't hear a healthy internal debate. Where are the Muslims here who will speak out against these curricula? Who will condemn them and say that they are unacceptable? Who will picket the Saudi cultural centre? Who will challenge and debate the ancient texts and their application in the modern world?

    I believe strongly that for issues like this and others (e.g. the radicalization of youth, extremist preachers and websites, and radical Islamic Societies in Universities), CHANGE MUST COME FROM WITHIN. Muslims in Britain need to speak out loudly and strongly against ALL things which are wrong - sure that can include the war in Iraq or paedophile priests, but it should also include the earthquake in Haiti, the disgraceful conditions of battery hens, the murder of civilians by Muslims in Darfur, murder of Pakistani Christians and unacceptable things propagated by Muslims here. To fail to do this makes any criticism of particular grievances meaningless to many of us. If the Muslim God really is all merciful, surely his followers should show mercy to all as well – if the Qur’an and Hadith don’t appear to support that in places, then I’d suggest you debate it as we do for the Christian texts. Please, stop feeling victimized and start asking some difficult questions.

  • Comment number 80.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 81.

  • Comment number 82.


    Two points:-

    1. As a pastor, my hope is that my ‘flock’ will seek to be more like Jesus Christ and learn from the apostles’ teachings. Similarly an Imam or a teacher of Moslems will seek to teach ‘his flock’ to become more like Muhammad and practise Islam like the first Moslems - who were taught by Muhammad. The problem that the Western world is realising is that Muhammad and the first Moslems, were extremely violent towards people of other beliefs and faiths. Whereas it was the practice of Jesus and apostles to engage intellectually with people of other religions and faiths.

    2. Dr Usama Hasan tried to mislead the viewers by implying that fundamental Moslems were taking Scripture out of context. He tried to buttress Islamic propaganda by saying that Jews and Christians “persecuted and torturing” the early Moslem believers (led by Muhammad). Basic searches of the Qur’an and Hadith show that it was the early Moslems who committed multiple atrocities against Christian and Jewish settlements. There is even a chapter in the Qur'an dedicated to the taking of booty.

    Let's call a 'spade a spade', the problem we have is not with faith schools but with Islamic Schools and Fundamental Islam (the accurate teachings and practices of their prophet).

  • Comment number 83.

    Baybars: regarding your comment (no.70), I believe you're wrong. Radicalization has been going on for a while now in the UK. Certainly when I was studying at SOAS in the early 1990s, the "1924 committee" was fully engaged in confrontational and offensive activity, which as I recall included a lecture where Jews were referred to as rotten meat or something similar.

    It sounds as if you are not willing to consider that there might be a problem, not willing to listen to both sides, to be at least a little bit humble and at least consider that others have a relevant point to make? Just a quick glance at books like "The Islamist" show that radicalization is indeed a problem, and has been for some time now.

  • Comment number 84.

    surprise surprise another anti-islam documentary by the bbc!

  • Comment number 85.

    "If Muslims are so anti-Semitic then too educate those who are unaware, the word Semitic also includes the Arabs. Do you think it's contradictory to make that suggestion that Muslims and Arabs are anti-semetic? This word has been hijacked and has been given a different definition like the word terrorism.

    If anyone is too look the history of Jews you will find that wherever they have taken residence in the world they were eventually exiled from those nations. Has any of the intellects ever asked themselves why?"
    Well done. Saying Arabs arn't anti-semitic only because Arabs are semites means that you apparently do not see Jew-hatred as a problem. This is reinforced in the second part of your post. Where you make an insuation which can have only one origin. It is amusing to see how many posts reinforce Panorama's reserch

  • Comment number 86.

    Further to my other post, The myth that islam was good to the Jews is a myth. true, for a period in spain it was very good, but most of the time it was bad or appaling. Cristianity's worse behavior in the middle-ages does not excuse this.
    Unfortunately for us Jews we have lived for the past 2,000 years in countrys where we have been considered 'heathen' 'infidels' or 'foreign', which often culminated in our murder, forced conversion or expulsion. Modern western society at the moment seems a safe haven, but the truth is there always will be the under-current of Jew-hatred.

  • Comment number 87.


    It is unfair for any HYS commentators to assert that this Panorama programme "demonises Muslims".

    I don't think that the programme set out to do that at all and this criticism misses the very obvious point that there are actually Muslims who are perfectly capable of demonising themselves with no outside help required.

    For example, it demonises Muslims when they argue that it is perfectly OK to stone Homosexuals and adulterers to death, murder Jews, treat women like seconds class citizens, align themselves with terrorists and suicide bombers, calling for the beheading of Cartoonists, believe in Forced Marriages, Female Genital Mutilation, Honour Killings, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

    What damns all Muslims in the eyes of the wider general public is the obvious, abject failure of any Muslims to publicly condemn all the above activity and to do so in a resoundingly clear, categorical way.

    When this conspiracy of silence is ended for good and the rest of society sees far more Muslims publicly marching to condemn and argue against the Muslims who regularly march for the very slightest of "provocations" (EG, such as printing cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed or Remembrance Sunday) then there may well be a case about how the media represents Muslims.

    Otherwise, there is no one else to blame for how Muslims are represented apart from the behaviour of other Muslims.

  • Comment number 88.

    "People need to wake up and stop being brainwashed by the people who broadcast news on your TV because these people are responsibile for all the wars not the Muslims. Where is WMD? Why there is stability that bring after toppling Iraq and Afghanistan? Which Muslim will it be next?"

    I assume you know most of the fatalities in Iraq have been muslim-inflicted?

  • Comment number 89.

    "Muslims feel their values clash with Western values. What a revelation. So to fully assimilate Muslims should abandon their faith and indulge in drinking, fornicating and gambling, things accepted in the West?"

    That is a false dichotomy! How can you even make that claim with a straight face?

    Plenty of westerners don't fornicate, gamble, drink and still get on fine. Maybe they are like the plenty of Muslims who don't blow up trains and buses, yet if I were to compare all Muslims with the terrorists I'm sure you'd quickly complain.

  • Comment number 90.

    this is totally biased...
    i ave bin to islamic schools.. i have lived in a mixed communtiy.. i work with children of all faiths...
    whatever has been said in the programme...
    you call the basic teachings of islam anti scemetic.. deceitful watever...
    but the teachers are only teaching wat was said years ago..

    if you go bak in time there was execution for murder.. that was in the medieval times of england.. and if saudi do this now... its wrong.

    you have your english law.
    we as muslims have our shariah law.
    we are taught the differences between religions yes in the qur'aan it says jews were turned into pigs and monkeys thats not extremism. it was a form of punishment. from our lord

    HELL FIRE
    well as Muslims there is paradise and then the hell fire if your good then you shall go to paradise bad then hell fire
    Christianity says the same thing on the following link..
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_happens_to_christians_after_they_die

    what we believe in is not for you other people to judge but our lord.
    you dont see us muslims going out and giving biased statements about your religions.

  • Comment number 91.

    ' If anyone is too look the history of Jews you will find that wherever they have taken residence in the world they were eventually exiled from those nations. Has any of the intellects ever asked themselves why?"

    Well done. Saying Arabs arn't anti-semitic only because Arabs are semites means that you apparently do not see Jew-hatred as a problem. This is reinforced in the second part of your post. Where you make an insuation which can have only one origin. It is amusing to see how many posts reinforce Panorama's research'

    Firstly I never stated that Arabs are only semities, the Jewish people exclusively use that word for themselves. They forget that the word Semetic covers the Arabs in that context and as for your own assumption of accusing me of insinuating any hatred I was stating a fact. Read the link below and knock yourself out.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion?wasRedirected=true


    Repeating history or a fact is no crime, assumptions is the ultimate crime. What has been reinforced is that reality there is a war against Islam in all it's forms. It's simple there is no need go round circle, the government thrives on lobbing a partnership with the media to whip up mass hysteria about Islamophobia.

    Those who speak out context I feel sorry for them, they are left in the hands of deceitful people to be educated about Islam? What a shame being a slave to their whims and desires.


  • Comment number 92.

    I am disgusted at your inaccurate portrayal of Islamic Institutions within the United Kingdom. These institutions are simply there to educate young Muslims about their religion and not to promote any form of extremism. Having being taught in an Islamic school from the age of 11, I have never experienced any hatred towards any religion or culture. As a matter of fact, I was taught to tolerate other religions in order to create harmony within society. By portraying Muslims in this manner you are creating hatred within the hearts of the general public and creating stereotypes. However our religion teaches us tolerance and we learn this from our Prophet himself. He lived with Jews and Christians side by side in peace; there was never a day when they were oppressed by him or any other Muslim around at the time. If Panorama intends to reveal the truth about society then the programme last night did a great disservice to your objective. Community cohesion is a buzz word which is promoted whenever convenient by the media, yet you yourselves are deliberately presenting the truth in a skewed light in order to enforce a negative image of Muslims within the general public.



    If we want to build bridges between Muslims and non-Muslims, both parties need to have a positive attitude about each other. What you have done by building a false picture around a few scraps of truth, is to distort the truth and set back all of the positive work and send us all in the completely the opposite direction.

    I would like to further state that the information you quoted was exaggerated in a negative tone. I believe there is nothing wrong with teaching a child about hell-fire; it simply will stand as a reminder whenever s/he does something which is not lawful in Islam. How on earth you can call this extreme, I honestly do not know. One can take excerpts of any religious text out of context and politicise it – In Mathew 23:33 Jesus addresses the Jews as ‘Ye serpents, ye generations of Vipers’, but no-one is claiming all Churches are anti-Semitic and should stop readings of the bible, yet quite deliberately Panorama has done the same thing with verses from the Quran and extracts from the Hadith, both religious texts. You can not claim these extracts are a 'radical' teaching of Islam because it is in the Quran itself. Some Muslims may abuse the verse and use it for anti-Semitism but with it being taught in Islamic Institutions does not mean that they are promoting hatred towards Jews; it is simply a parable for us to derive lessons from. Therefore just because the words may seem anti-Semitic if given a modern political agenda, does not necessarily mean that they are. Your claim is no different to those who accuse Christianity and the Bible for Hitler’s attitude towards the Jews. It is flawed, inaccurate and grossly misrepresentative.



    I would like to conclude by saying that what you have done was very inappropriate and is a complete distortion of what Muslims are really like. If you want to build bridges between Muslims and Non-Muslims, I suggest that you portray us in a positive light instead of an obviously negative one, and then hopefully we can progress from there. If you are true in your words and actions I suggest you ask Muslims yourself, I can guarantee that you would get completely opposite views to what you have shown today.



  • Comment number 93.


    Thank You for this programme!

    I am glad you showed the truth about Islam on national television.
    What a disgrace for muslims to flood the gates of Judeo-Christian Europe and the USA while thinking that Jews and Christians are blind pigs and their enemies.

    Religious freedom must be tolerated and respected as long as that particular religion does not call for the destruction of our JUDEO-Christian values.

    One must only watch evening news to see the evidence of death and detruction carried out every day with " the blessing of Allah"!




  • Comment number 94.

    FOLLOWING IS A LETTER TO JOHN & THE BBC AND JOHN'S REPLY. MAKE WHAT YOU WANT OF IT. THE REPLY IS JOHN HIMSELF 'BEATING AROUND THE BUSH' AND NOT ANSWERING OR CLARIFYING ANY MATTERS MENTIONED IN THE LETTER:


    Hi,

    After receiving the news from many friends regarding panorama last night, I decided to watch the programme to see what the fuss was about.

    I am not someone who is an MP or authoritative figure, however, having been to a private Islamic school myself, I am forced to inform you of the truth that you don't want to face which is completely the opposite of what you led millions of viewers to believe. I feel that for BBC and JOHN this is a ploy to have even more people turn against Islam as if it is some kind of immoral religion.

    Islam teaches us to respect all faiths and people of all colour as we are all one in the eyes of our Lord. If that's not enough, our Prophet Muhammad also used to stand in respect when a non muslim deceased was being taken to the cemetery. When he was asked why he stood up, he said that we are all God's creation and we will all return to God one day too. This is the respect that we were taught in School and Islam. John, since you are so clued up in your research as can be seen on the programme, I'm sure you will be able to find what I have said in the Traditions of the Prophet Muhammad.

    Unfortunately John & BBC, you have yet again, used one of your cunning plans to deceive the vast public that watch BBC, taken advantage of the viewers and with 200% intention, deliberately damaged the public's perspective of Islam and us innocent Muslims who reside here in the UK.

    I live in Preston and we will be having the EDL visit us with their anger this weekend Saturday. No doubt they have watched this and this will without doubt lead to much more damage physically and emotionally. I hope John and BBC: You are happy with yourself.

    Thank you for portraying Islam in the wrong way. Please don't pretend to be scholars of Islam. You are preying on innocent minds. This is the disasters of TV. The likes of you cause distress to countless Muslims all over the UK. I hope that you can sleep at night knowing that you have and still are destroying innocent Muslims' Lives.

    I do expect a courteous reply from BBC and especially JOHN himself, as he has targeted us wrongfully. Of course, we aren't the type to behave or even retaliate in the same way that he did. So if there is no reply, we will understand that you have acknowledged your wrong doing.

    Regards,

    ***************
    British Muslim Citizen


    PS: I wonder what your next ploy is JOHN...!

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    Dear ********

    Thanks for your email. Of course you will get a courteous reply. You make a pretty serious (and discourteous) charge, however.

    You say I contrived a "cunning plan" with a "200% intention" to "deliberately damage Islam":

    "Unfortunately John & BBC, you have yet again, used one of your cunning plans to deceive the vast public that watch BBC, taken advantage of the viewers and with 200% intention, deliberately damaged the public's perspective of Islam and us innocent Muslims who reside here in the UK."

    I imagine you saw the start of the programme and how we reported that Al Furqan school in Birmingham had a genuine respect for all faiths. It seems inconceivable to me that the sort of website comments we went on to report would have had any place in a school like Al Furqan.

    Which particular part of the programme did you object to? Never having met me, I would be interested also to hear more about the basis for your charge that my motive for making the programme was in some way malign.

    Kind regards

    John Ware

  • Comment number 95.

    # 90 we as muslims have our shariah law.

    Could I ask all the muslims posting here that live in britain, do you agree with the above statement?

    If so do you see sharia law being implemented only to muslims? Would the british implement this law or would you?

    What would happen if you cut off a thiefs hand? Would you cut it off, then rush them to an NHS hospital, where the surgeons would want to sew it back on, or sew up the end. Would you then expect the british people to pay to look after this person, as they couldn't work, and then pay for their family to live, their house, their healthcare, their education? What if they then had a foot cut off as well, would the british people then have to pay them disabled benefit, and a prosethetic foot, or wheelchairs or any other little need of this disabled (by now) person?

    Where would you do the stoning for adultery or sodomy? Would it be the local playing field, or the in the steeet? Or perhaps a beach where the woman could be buried up to her neck, and the men to their waist? We wouldn't want a stone hitting a breast now would we. Who would do the stoning would it be british people, or strictly just muslims throwing the (not too big) stones? Who would clear up the mess afterwards? Would the muslims? Or would you expect the ambulance service, the fireman, the police, or the local council to take the body away, bury it, and wash the street or repair the park afterwards?

    I would like to know what muslims think about all this, they want sharia law, but have they thought through the consequences for themselves if it was implemented here? I'm sure not all muslims are completely innocent and never commit a crime so surely they should be thinking very hard about the above.

    And mods I want an answer, I'm not being insulting, I just want to know what muslims think

  • Comment number 96.

    rjc1008 I suggest playing closer attention to what I wrote. I said drinking, fornicating and gambling are ACCEPTED in the West. I did not accuse all Westerners of it.

    northernhoard neither Britain or the US will do anything that could jeopardise relations with the oil rich country.

    The 1924 committee is a political movement that preys on the fears and prejudices of young, ignorant Muslims. What they teach, their religious practices would be frowned upon and outlawed under the Shariah law they crave.

    Oranges and Lemons wrote "The myth that Islam was good to the Jews is a myth."

    Actually it isn't. Clearly you haven't done your research. Yesterday I came across this article on the Judaism Online website :

    http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/HistoryJewishPersecution/

    Lesser Known Highlights of Jewish International
    Relations In The Common Era (an Abbreviated sampling)

    I sent them an e-mail asking :

    'From this list there do not appear to be many instances of Jewish
    persecution at the hands of Muslims in Muslim lands. Is this a correct
    conclusion to make?'

    To which I received the following reply :

    It seems to appear that way.
    For many years Jews had the Dimi status in Muslim lands and that somewhat protected them.
    The problem today is that the Jews are no longer Dimis.


    All the best,

  • Comment number 97.

    Ecolizzy Shariah law can only be implemented in Muslims countries. Muslims have no right to Shariah law in non Muslim countries - this is no Caliphate. We practice our faith to the best of our abilities and obey the laws of the land and I'm certainly not a namby panby, beardless modernist.

  • Comment number 98.

    Babyar no 70
    'Peddle your silly little website somewhere else'?
    REALLY?
    I always put my money where my mouth is.
    I am willing to pay YOU the sum of $50,000 if you demonstrate to ALL the readers a SINGLE operative verse in Muhammad's Quran that shows ANY Mercy or Compassion to all UNBELIEVERS (80% ofcurrent humanity)!
    Just ONE verse worth $50,000.
    Muhammad declared TOTAL WAR against all those who do not follow his belief system 1400 years ago & this has continued and continues as we speak through JIHAD!
    My 'little web site' contains 780 UNCHALLENGEABLE chapters that REFUTE anything you may bring up.
    All I am asking from ANYONE reading this, is to take up my challenges!
    Instead of INSULTING me, CHALLENGE me!
    You are still under the erroneous impression that the British public are as INGORANT about 'Islam' as they were a few years ago!
    WRONG! Many Europeans are actually waking up and taking notice of 'Islam'

  • Comment number 99.

    Of course there will be no persecution or expulsions towards any jeudo-Christians in any Muslims lands, history will testify that Jews and even Christian prospered under islamic rule.

    The fact that no evidence can be brought against islams in relation to it's tolerism to other faiths that's why they wish to fragment this religion by picking topics that would make the Muslims shy away from discussing such topic at length. There is no shyness in our religion, if anybody has issues open a dialogue. Of course the ignorant ones on both camps will always be oblivious towards the truth and hence will give their own opinion about what Islam means. With the utmost respect we do not need a non Muslim or an ignorant Muslim to teach us Islam.

    There is no need reinvent the wheel, we dont tell Jews or Christians how to be a proper Jew or Christians even though the Talmud promotes racism, anarchy, selfishness etc. Had it not been for Islam in Spain and the Ottomans Europe would still be in dark ages. The Islamic values were spread far and wide in Europe.




  • Comment number 100.

    John it should be obvious which parts of the so called documentary many Muslims and some non Muslims objected to. Your motives are being questioned because you did not engage with scholars, Imams or the parents of children who attend Islamic faith schools and clearly mislead viewers with the claims that
    Muslims are taught Jews are pigs and apes, the sensational centrepiece of the broadcast. The relevant verse in the Qur'an (2:65) states :

    "And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

    You mislead viewers with claims that Islam is anti-Semitic - Arabs are Semites as were Jesus and Abraham, two of the most revered prophets in Islam.

    You also claimed Islam was homophobic and warned those who don't follow the faith are damned while conveniently and deliberately failing to state the same is also true of Christianity and Judaism.

    Fortunately most people will see the programme for what is was and for those who will use it as fuel against the faith I'll console myself with the fact that more people probably watched Strictly Come Dancing, Eastenders, Match of the Day, The One Show, Miranda etc, etc.

 

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