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Thursday 3 November 2011

Verity Murphy | 13:37 UK time, Thursday, 3 November 2011

Tonight we will be focussed on the fast moving events of the eurozone crisis.

Mark Urban is in Greece where PM George Papandreou has announced that he is seeking consensus with the opposition on a eurozone bailout as an alternative to holding a referendum.

Paul Mason is in Cannes where G20 leaders are holding a summit overshadowed by the chaos in Athens.

And David Grossman will be picking over David Cameron's statement that it is right to consider boosting funds to the International Monetary Fund in a time of crisis and whether Westminster would back such a move.

We will discuss the events of the day and what happens next with guests including economist Ken Rogoff, Gillian Tett from the FT, Brazilian ambassador to the UK Roberto Jaguaribe, German MEP Elmar Brok and Greek MP Lianna Kanellis.

And we will also be looking whether the Occupy movement is starting to affect the thinking of political and financial leaders around the world. Writer Naomi Wolf, who was arrested at the Occupy Wall Street protest, will be joining us in the studio.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

  • Comment number 2.

    I think there is something more sinister behind Papandreou's antics. It's as if he is deliberately trying to create further chaos.

    PROBLEM
    REACTION
    SOLUTION (EZ fiscal union witout a democratic mandate)

  • Comment number 3.

  • Comment number 4.

    Of course if the Greek deal gets waved through without being put to the democratic procedure it opens the door wide open for similar economic rape of other EU countries, perhaps including here in the UK.

    All in all the perfect Corporate Nazi EU Fourth Reich dictatorship !

  • Comment number 5.

    Yesterday evening, Richard Corbett from the EU Council tried to calmly answer questions from a slightly hysterical Gavin Estler and attempted to point out that the agreement with Greece included components such as financial firewalls which would be constructed irrespective of whether the Greeks had a referendum or not.

    This point was rather drowned out by Estlers foaming but it still stands.

    If only the NewsNight interviewers could be as calm and rational as the impressive Mr. Corbett.

  • Comment number 6.

    brossen99 @ 4

    Yes, those of us of a certain age are tempted to use phases such as Fourth Reich.

    We really should stop doing that as, by implication, this places a shadow over young Germans who have nothing whatsoever to do with the sins of the grand-parents, most of whom colluded with the awfulness of the Third Reich.

    This Englishman is satisfied that Germany, by virtue of its post-war success fully deserves the right to lead in Europe, especially in the eurozone.

    The Germans have managed so far, to bake a very big economic cake and try to share it equitably with other Germans and are slowly coming around to the idea that they must also cross-subsidise weaker eurozone members until they are bought up-to-speed.

  • Comment number 7.

    5.At 16:42 3rd Nov 2011, JohnConstable wrote:

    "This point was rather drowned out by Estlers"
    ++

    Watching the interview - I shared GE's frustration - the Eurocrat was evasive & wouldn't answer the question & resorted to euro-babble & spin

  • Comment number 8.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 9.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Papandreou

    "Papandreou has been leader of the Panhellenic Socialist Movement
    (PASOK) party since February 2004. In 2006 he became President of the Socialist International"

    Make sure you understand what he "Socialist" International is (if you have any problems juts think about what New "Labour" did).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_International

    As you look through the list, note that there's no China, Cuba, Vietnam etc Now why is that?

  • Comment number 10.

    JohnConstable wrote: "We really should stop doing that as, by implication, this places a shadow over young Germans who have nothing whatsoever to do with the sins of the grand-parents, most of whom colluded with the awfulness of the Third Reich"

    Without wishing to be provocative, I suggest you critically ask what it was which was so repugnant about the Third Reich and what it was after WWII which many across Europe were told was repugnant about the Third Reich as much the same sort of vilification game was plated once the Cold War began, i.e to make the West hate Soviet National Socialism. Was this not done to keep domestic regulation at bay and did that not lead to the mess we are now facing?..

    Germany consistently asserted that it was trying to save Europe from naked capitalism in the 1930s and 40s, and if you look into it, you will find that it had a lot of support across Europe and even in some parts of Britain. Unless one can look at history objectively one risks being swept along by propaganda, not reason and evidence.

  • Comment number 11.

    #6 try again

    Its got nothing to do with the German " people ", its all about a few internationalist celebrity stock market parasites dictating alleged democratic government policy everywhere in the developed western world. If they get away with it in the longer term the vast majority of our people's lives will become a living financial nightmare before anyone actually realises what's going on !

  • Comment number 12.

    This really is the dawning of the " New Dark Age " Winston Churchill foresaw !

  • Comment number 13.

    10.At 17:34 3rd Nov 2011, brown-dog wrote:
    Was this not done to keep domestic regulation at bay and did that not lead to the mess we are now facing?..

    ++
    Maybe but the mess that we are now facing is due to greed, corruption & flawed ideologies & their respective political systems + a doubling in global population.

    More population means more unrest, more competition and ... worse

  • Comment number 14.

    #12 brossen99 wrote:


    "This really is the dawning of the " New Dark Age " Winston Churchill foresaw !"


    Someone has told us before that Churchill, like Blair (and probably Brown and Cameron), sold out to the chosen ones.

  • Comment number 15.

    Just to follow that up, bear in mind that in the 1930s, Moscow was publicly getting rid of its Socialist Internationalists (se the Moscow Trials) which it Social Democrats or fascists. When Germany and the Soviet Union formed its alliance in 1939, together they went in to Poland, and proceeded to root out a common enemy. THAT is what people should focus upon. That both Germany and Russia had enemies within the USSR should come as no surprise, but for some reason it does. One also has to look at how Europe ended up after 1945. Many of the Warsaw Pact nations were on the side of Germany. Look back at the 1939 Avalon Law Centre link..

    nautonier wrote: "Maybe but the mess that we are now facing is due to greed, corruption & flawed ideologies & their respective political systems + a doubling in global population.

    More population means more unrest, more competition and ... worse"

    Try to forget about the rising populations in some parts of the world.

    What is far more important is the ageing and then declining populations in the so-called "advanced" Libertarian economies, and where, in the cognitive ability distribution the decline hits the most (and where it is growing) as we need key services and don't need drains. Fine discrimination is the key issue here and that requires attention to fine detail. Depopulation, differential fertility and ageing are the main problems which are now impacting, even though many won't see that.

    Instead they just see some vague consequences and make a wrong diagnosis in haste..

  • Comment number 16.

    museV wrote:"#12 brossen99 wrote:

    "This really is the dawning of the " New Dark Age " Winston Churchill foresaw !"

    Someone has told us before that Churchill, like Blair (and probably Brown and Cameron), sold out to the chosen ones."

    Indeed, and yet even Liam Fox had a go at mixing people up with the above theme back in April 2009.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/5105253/Were-in-danger-of-entering--n
    ew-Dark-Age.html

    As one reads and thinks about Political Correctness, one should bear in mind that the Soviets had no time for the "Old Bolsheviks" either. They were seen to be anarchists like those of the Socialist International today. Yet the Libertarian West has long misled its youth that this WAS communism, and it used this subterfuge to advance its Libertarian agenda. What better way to fight off domestic statism than to hold up the Frankfurt School as THE example of The Left, when in fact it was promoting exactly the opposite, anarchism..

    http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/921_frankfurt.html

    The Frankfurt School people of the New Left were hunted down by the German National Socialists and the Stalinists alike in the 1930s so they fled to the USA, where, in the 60s and 70s they became the darlings of a lost generation which rarely saw how their anarchism just facilitated the interests of right wing Libertarians and thus brought about financial freedom i.e deregulation at the expense of their own long term interests. Most still can't see how this worked..

  • Comment number 17.

    Deception and its detection is fundamental to law and politics yet sadly there are people everywhere who insist upon picking up objects which have been designed to be one thing but appear as something else. Think of anti-personnel mines. That's the New Left.

  • Comment number 18.

    Mr Dog #various over the past few days

    Its all too easy for those who have studied politics history in depth to go prattling on about the 1930s when as no less than the revered JadedJean more than amply pointed out in the past that the real danger to our " freedom " now is the anarcho capitalist Trotskyites running the show. Namely the stock market celebrities and their puppet mainstream and probably also including many key UKIP politicians, perhaps you had not noticed we are now in the 21st century.

  • Comment number 19.

    Read this statement fron George Osborne very carefully as it is totally subversive. If you have any savings what-so-ever then this statement works totally against your interests.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/g20-summit/8868676/Britain-poised-to-provide-billions-for-new-rescue-package-as-euro-crisis-deepens.html

  • Comment number 20.

  • Comment number 21.

  • Comment number 22.

    The eco-fascists primary concern is to preserve the current UK corporate energy cartel, their position of fracking must prove that beyond reasonable doubt !

  • Comment number 23.

    I am in Scotland at the moment.

    I was watching NN last Night and Paul M was cut off practically mid flow while very powerfully and concisely summarising european woes... such a dramatic exit left me thinking that I was about to see a news flash or perhaps a race of aliens informing the human race of its intent to take over.... instead I find myself ooking at the NN Scotland studio.

    The lead story which justified (aparently) such a rude interuption was.......

    '' estimated £326 billion still left in North sea oil''.

    There you go, the whole Euro problem in a nutshell, the only people who consider themselves to be 'european' work in the over-priced edifices of Brussels and have a financial incentive to do so it seems. As problems escalate we do not look to Brussels, we look to our own back yard for the answers... and probably always will for the forseeable future.

    The Euro in its current form is finished .. end of...

  • Comment number 24.

    Was that the brain of Ed Balls that Susan Watts was holding by any chance. Well its a fair enough question when you consider his thoughts on the economy. I've always wondered where his head was at.

  • Comment number 25.

    Brossen99 and your link:

    "Why do the BBC hate Britian?"

    Its because they hate themselves. Its normal for a lefty to hate themselves, especially when you consider they live in a bubble. And having yourself spoken to like a child has started to grate where I can't even watch the news anymore..have you watched Fiona Bruce perform?

    I hate the BBC even more this week after reading that Alan Hansen gets £40.000 per appearence on Match Of The Day for his insights on football tactics. And there was me thinking he'd be getting £100, a few sandwiches and taxi fare home...nope..its £40.000.

    The problem with the BBC is they don't realise people watch other channels for their information. And they still tell us that the "following scenes may be upsetting"..only to be shown in the distance, maybe 100yrds away, a dead body. Its doesnt' really give the same impact as another channel will show a childs face blown off whilst he was still walking and crying for help. The BBC gave us the sanitised Libyan war - and tried to make us feel good about it - when at the flick of a switch and on to another news network, the true horrors of that war was on show, and no mention of the black African genocide by the Libyans from BBC what so ever or the deaths of 10s of thousands of children by the freedom fighters weaponry or our own dropped bombs from a safe distance. Nope, not a word from the BBC.
    If it wasn't for The Warkster, Paxman and Mason..I'd think I can safely say the BBC news would be something I could live without quite happily...as I'm all grown up now.

  • Comment number 26.

    And STILL we welcome millions of immigrants in every year!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/hr-news/8868087/Crisis-looming-in-Britains-youth-unemployment-blackspots.html

    Having watched Panorama last night I really wonder about our benefits system! Every cunning and lazy person in Britain seems to be fiddling the system, I suppose including bankers!

    I would be very very harsh with those who fiddle, either benefit theives or banker thieves, we really do need a change of regime in this country.

    Or get rid of the welfare system, it's a farce.

  • Comment number 27.

    Jericoa wrote: "There you go, the whole Euro problem in a nutshell, the only people who consider themselves to be 'european' work in the over-priced edifices of Brussels and have a financial incentive to do so it seems."

    Yes, and along with that we have seen Britain Balkanised into Regional Development Agencies/Assemblies aka NUTS, we've seen much publicity given to devolution (first Ireland, then Wales and finally Scotland), then we have had the focus turned to London and its flamboyant Mayor presented almost as a rival to the PM just to drive the anarchistic point home. We had open ridicule and hostility from the BBC towards the British NATIONALIST Party during the General Election, - and no end of talk of Human Rights, and Europe against PROTECTIONISM (aka nationalism). We had lots said on the merits of Immigration and the breaking up of the "dysfunctional" Home Office - after all, what would one want with a large/strong Home Office (Ministry of Internal Affairs) if one was busy BREAKING UP Britain as a sovereign nation into over a dozen smaller self managed pieces?

    This has all, I suggest been about creating an EU supra-state - one which sucked regulatory powers (busy bodies) out of the European member states into Brussels, where they could hog tie themselves in red tape which ensured that those in financial services and business (e.g property developers) could get on with what they like, i.e preying upon consumers with just about no enforcement of regulations locally because if the simultaneously shrinking local (regulatory) state (Public Sector). Ask some Europeans in Spain and see what they say has happened there about respect for European laws to see why the Euro crisis and credit crunch came about. Was it not CREATED by the Euro deregulation masked as Brussels centralisation? At one time in their not too distant past, Portugal, Italy. Greece and Spain had dictatorships to prevent the anarchism which they have ben enjoying at the expense of others recently.

    The EU Commissioners, ECB and vultures in the IMF are trying to make out that they are knights on White chargers riding in to sort it all out when, if this analysis is sound, they are in fact the cause of it all not the solution.

    What chutzpah is this why the Greeks are on the streets? They should be quoting St. Paul's epistle to the Thessalonians (citizens of Thessaloniki, the second largest city in Greece), or is it very quiet there?
    .
    http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/1thessalonians.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaloniki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_of_Thessaloniki

  • Comment number 28.

    Anyway, real reason Euro crisis continues ...

    Protectionist Germany & France will not allow the ECB to print trillions on Euros & out of debt as a devalued Euro would expose French & German corporates from hostile bids from USA, Japan, BRICS, Swiss vulture funds.

    Another reason BRICS doing so well is that they are also able to make sovereign bids for overseas assets.

    IMO, France & germany will leave Euro before they will agree to euro being devalued to save e.g. PIIGS from default as they know CDS in place as mainly guaranteed by USA 7 UK.

    In my view, BRICS & others e.g Swiss will not help bail out Euro without getting something MORE in return - I wonder what that might be?

    A devalued Euro would probably, overall, be neutral in effect on the UK.

    The dithering makes further serious shocks inevitable & the only way out of this to end the crisis - is to devalue the Euro by printing trillions of Euros.

    Until the French & German protectionist mindset is put aside - they will not be 'able' to join the UK as being totally exposed to global exploitation by the rich, greedy and nasty and in full national economic & other decline.

  • Comment number 29.

    "COMPENSATION" (#26)

    The whole overpaid banker charade, is summed up in that one word: COMPENSATION.

    I wonder whose perverse mind FIRST coined such a devious misnomer, thinking it would somehow hide the obscenity? Its use neatly ties the Age of Perversity to the Banking Farce.

    Bob Diamond was on 'Today', saying his 'compensation' is a bit over £1 million. I was willing Humphrys to poke fun at the term, but no. I suppose, if a top banker's pay is 'compensation', the bank cleaner is paid HUMILIATION!

    Nuff sed (though not by Humphrys).

  • Comment number 30.

    I want to invite you to watch the music video I just made “Yes, I feel hurt,” a love song for the occupy movement. The scene is set mainly in Occupy San Francisco.

    The Market Street encampment and its magical Wishing Tree were dismantled, but live on in this video.

    http://youtu.be/Csyz1HrJEos

    Brian

 

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