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Friday 21 May 2010

Sarah McDermott | 18:22 UK time, Friday, 21 May 2010

MORE DETAILS ON TONIGHT'S PROGRAMME:


Tonight we are focussing on the future of the eurozone, and Britain's relationship to it.

David Cameron has held talks in Berlin today with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, on the second leg of his first European trip since becoming prime minister.

The meeting took place against against a backdrop of financial turmoil across Europe and calls for tighter regulation of markets to support the troubled euro.

However, after the talks Mr Cameron insisted that there was "no question" of him backing any treaty giving the EU more powers to shore up the eurozone.

Peter Marshall is in Berlin tonight to bring us the latest on that. And Stephanie Flanders will be reporting from Brussels where EU finance ministers have started laying out new, tougher rules for their public finances.

Will their actions be enough to win back market confidence and get a handle on the debt crisis that is threatening the euro?

Gavin Esler will be talking to eminent economists including Joseph Stiglitz and Irwin Stelzer.

Plus, as the Lib-Con coalition settles in to the business of running the country we ask if we are seeing a realignment of the Liberal centre right and the redrawing of the party political map for a generation or more.

Two leading newspaper columnists - Andrew Rawnsley and Anne McElvoy - will be giving us their view.

ENTRY FROM 1120BST:

The German parliament is to vote on its contribution to a 750bn euro ($938bn, £651bn) rescue deal for the eurozone today and David Cameron will be meet the German Chancellor Angela Merkel later.

Peter Marshall is in Berlin and will bring us the latest on the day's events and we hope to speak to some leading economists about the future of the euro.

And at the end of week one of the coalition, the Lib Dems and the Conservatives seem to have worked well together - so tonight we will be asking if we are seeing a realignment of the Liberal centre right and the redrawing of the party political map for a generation or more.

More details later.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    "And at the end of week one of the coalition, the Lib Dems and the Conservatives seem to have worked well together "

    Even I, a Lib Dem supporter, think that though the media have been trying to find any excuse to promote division between the two and Labour have been saying that they are getting floods of Lib Dem supporters coming over to them that a week is not a great period of time.

    It would be amazing if the coalition lasted for five years and did so without crisis.

    But it is clear that first past the post does not deliver strong government unless the two party system has two popular parties and that coalition where both parties stick to their principles but agree to compromise does not cheat the voter but endorses a greater number of views by and large.

    But it is in all of their interests to make it work as its in the National Interest and in the interests of both parties.

    I think also that the notion of the Liberal "Centre Right" is loaded at the outset as the Lib Dem policies would generally have been considered to the left of New Labour and its coalition with the Tories and not merger.

    So I think that the days when parties can take the public for granted are over and that is across the spectrum.

    I also think that the shenanigans of the media won't last very long either.

  • Comment number 2.

    woe is me...missed QT and NN, just never seem to make it these days, fell asleep...any help?

  • Comment number 3.

    I am surprised that there is not a piece on the Senate passing the Financial Reform bill 59-39.

    Its a step forward for the US and Obama but there are criticisms that derivatives are not accounted for and it does not separate retail and investment activities.

    What is the reaction of our new government and will they go further.

    Additionally regulation in the US allowed Repo 105 to hide Lehmans problems and only about six people took down the bank and then nearly took down the global economy.

    The Fed and the SEC were in there for six months before that crash.

    So could that happen again?

    Clearly though the Euro problems are very very serious if we start to see countries default on their debt and the failure of the Euro would severely undermine the EU of course with all of the ramifications associated.

  • Comment number 4.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 5.

    How about a piece on the Times Square attempted bombing asking does it show that the "enemy" in the guise of al Qaeda and the Pakistan Taliban and perhaps even LET are merging and getting stronger or becoming weaker and more desperate?

    Are we now closer to catching the al Qaeda elite alleged to be holed up in North Waziristan?

  • Comment number 6.

    Well the last few days gold has taken a hit, which means I'm looking to buy, so was on the blower to my favorite (best deal) bullion dealer; by the time I had put the phone down and drove 3 miles they had sold out of what I was after.

    Not really relevant ? soon 'everything else will be a falling away'

    Oh dear

  • Comment number 7.

    NEW POLITICS MING? THE BIG LIE IS STILL WITH US I SEE.

    I just watch Ming the Meaningless declare 'THE PUBLIC' were 'crying out' for 'STABILITY'. (Hence they voted indecisively. Duh?) No Ming, that is a convenient Coalition mantra, SPUN UP after you were all hanged for lack of INTEGRITY! That is what the public were crying out for ACROSS PARTIES Ming - INTEGRITY INTEGRITY INTEGRITY. And here you are, pompous 'elder statesman', trotting out a pathetic fiction about 'stability'. If YOU can't behave with HONOUR Ming, what chance the bunch of weasels in the Westminster Weasel Hutch?

    Now we have flushed yet another layer of deceit and dishonour into the open,
    let's have an election off the back of it, before you can spin all the dumbos back to sleep again. Then we can really

    SPOILPARTYGAMES

  • Comment number 8.

    4. At 1:04pm on 20 May 2010, thegangofone wrote:

    'I would guess there will be some sniping from the far right posters who pollute this page with regard to the Israeli Hofesh Shechter and they will start ranting on about the alleged "Jewish hegemony" and world governments and so on and so on.'

    -----------------------

    Wrong again!

    Me thinks you doth protest too much!

  • Comment number 9.

    I admit I was wrong....looks like Obama IS going to war with Iran after all.... he's built up a massive US Air-Sea-Marine opposite Iran

    Source: http://www.debka.com/article/8794/

  • Comment number 10.

    Just watched Hofesh Shechter's interview - what an amazingly talented person :o) Thanks for that Newsnight!

  • Comment number 11.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 12.

    BYT

    I've just phoned NATO from ice on behalf of the UNICEF to always remember children before engaging in 'grown up boys'' games.

    mim

  • Comment number 13.

    attempted repost #11:

    ----

    Posting:
    #1: gangy,

    "I think also that the notion of the Liberal "Centre Right" is loaded at the outset as the Lib Dem policies would generally have been considered to the left of New Labour and its coalition with the Tories and not merger."

    do you think clegg and laws were on this 'Left' of the Liberals?

    #2: BBC i-player.

    #5: it illustrates that the Obama Regime has every intention of continuing with its War on Islam. The 'plot' was known LONG before it came close to fruition, it was only allowed to get that far so the headlines could be manipulated. FEAR - that Achilles-Heel of the US population since David W Bush and the neo-cons came to power in Washington, is still being deliberately manufactured to 'justify' the foreign wars.


    #7: indeed. But not if we 'lucky, lucky people' manage to get a "Strong and Stable Govt" that Parliament can't get rid of. Curiously, despite it being a Tory Govt trying to bring these changes in, i suspect those backbench Tory MPs who vote against it will actually see the greater support from their constituents!

    #9: Rome has encircled Persia with its armies, Navy and airforce, and is looking for its local fundamentalist Jewish outpost to "begin the party".

    -Oh sorry, i meant "America" and "Iran".

    an easy mistake to make, as i'm sure the US Neo-cons will agree.

    "Democracies don't go to war" - an old Pol-Sci adage. Just have to wonder how 'Democratic' we *are* then, eh?

    can it still be stopped? It depends upon Russia and China, who may not want to have a nuclear holocaust in Asia, not even to intend to bring down the American Empire. In fact, to do that they just have to wait. And they are undoubtedly aware that that is also why the US neo-cons want to accelerate the planned invasion of Iran.

    it is easier for a corrupt, self-serving 'elite' to grab total power during the inevitable, and enormous, civil unrest caused by any crash of oil supply caused by the destruction of Persia. [sorry - IRAN!]

    "[bleep]s Are Still Running The World", unfortunately.


    #10: indeed. :)


    -OK now beeb? :D

  • Comment number 14.

    OBAMA WILL GO WHERE IT SUITS HIS OWNERS. (#76)

    HI 76. As there are only two philanthropist on the planet, and neither you nor I subbed Obama the $1billion it cost to buy the Presidency, there are some quid-pro-quos of eye-watering size, he has to deliver, if grassy knolls are to remain untrodden.

    'Ask not what you should do for your country - ask what your backers want done for them'.

  • Comment number 15.

    WHO WAS IT SAID: "WE ARE ALL SOMEBODY'S JOHNNIE FOREIGNER"

    Even if 7/7 was unavoidable, did we not set an example, over centuries, of the 'Convention For Bombing Johnnie Foreigner Where He Lives' in action?

    We pride ourselves on 'punching above our weight' (how politicians love to trumpet that). But if you provoke a big guy, you will be lucky to get of with no more than a bloody nose, such as 7/7.

    I wonder if New Politics will NOT ALLOW the Prime Minister to 'arrange' a war, just because he likes the idea? I know Cabinet Minister Duncan Smith is a 'warista, he nodded Iraq through. Where do Dave and Young Nick stand on whim-wars?

  • Comment number 16.

    #15: barry,

    "I wonder if New Politics will NOT ALLOW the Prime Minister to 'arrange' a war, just because he likes the idea? I know Cabinet Minister Duncan Smith is a 'warista, he nodded Iraq through. Where do Dave and Young Nick stand on whim-wars?"

    they are "fully committed to helping the UKs allies fight Terrorism wherever in the world that can be found".

    -except if it is an ally doing it. Nor does the Terror felt by people in countries we are 'pacifying/deterrorizing' count towards that objective.


    i think the lines between are large enough to drive a horse-drawn cannon through.

  • Comment number 17.

  • Comment number 18.

    THE 9/11 TRUTH GROUPS ARE COALESCING (#17)

    When the truly dark forces that 'pulled' (remember Larry?) that murderous stunt are finally exposed - but not, of course, brought to book - perhaps the same underlying, lying, ethos of AGW will be recognised.

    Meanwhile, check out 'Holoscience' and warm your mind on the electric Sun. If we have snow this Winter, look hard, and wonder if this is the first layer . . .

  • Comment number 19.






    This morning’s N24 ....



    An extract from a appropriately solemn report on the death of three Brits in Pakistan ...



    “ ...... one address for women to go to, and another for men ...... ( ? to mourn and pray) “


    What would be the reaction to that section of the report be if certain words were changed



    i.e.


    “ ...... one address for blacks to go to, and another for whites ...... “

    or

    “ ...... one address for heterosexuals to go to, and another for gays ...... “

    or

    “ ...... one address for sikhs to go to, and another for muslims ...... “


    but ....

    “ ...... one address for women to go to, and another for men ...... “


    And .... ?


    Not a murmur!


    Religion has no precedence whatsoever above morality and the law!





    Strange how some things can appear to create a disregard for greater humanity ....

    The ‘maintenance’ of honour regarding a marriage ‘dispute’ leads to ....

    Four people dead!

    Is life that trivial!


  • Comment number 20.



    Regarding ...

    At 2:28pm on 21 May 2010, barriesingleton wrote:

    Nice post!

    Assuredly we are going to be getting a lot more of this for the next few weeks.

    And then it will evolve to ....

    “We have no viable alternative but to ....”

    “The unexpected enormity of the situation requires ....”

    “Yes, it is a major blow but ....”

    “If you want to see ....”

    And of course don’t forget the - what will be a ubiquitous - classic ....

    “The Government has decided that it is in the best interests of the nation .... “

    Blah-de-loobdy-blah!



    And to cap it all there are one or two posters on here that won’t see the wood for the trees ...

    As they never did Nature Studies!

  • Comment number 21.




    Taking a leaf out of gnuneo’s ‘book” I have voluntarily edited out large chunks of

    At 10:34pm on 17 May 2010, JAperson

    .... which is still at this point in time “referred to the moderators”

    and am “givin’ it anuva go”!

    Some may justifiably argue that the ‘mediocrity’ of the issue is not worth the effort but I just so, so, so hate wasting bits’n’bytes!


    -----------------------------

    So....


    Lady Em - aka “Ace Newsnight Reporter” - is off on an exhaustive journalistic quest covering the ‘Perfect 10’ of all that 21st Century woman finds so abhorrent.

    Well - regarding the media attributed ‘views’ of the modern female - that is what we are told to believe, meant to believe or choose to believe!

    Ironic that it - the Ms Earth pageant - is still, it appears, somewhat popular and the aspiration to ‘be’ is persistently held up as some admirable attribute worthy of ‘heroic’ pursuit! Strangely women and nations continue to clamour to be ‘crowned’ or ‘just’ participate! Audiences - diminishing due to disinterest, contempt, boredom or excessive broadcast licensing fees ? - still exist.

    Perhaps the intent of the exercise is to offer the premise that the event is outmoded, discriminatory, sexist, demeaning, morally corrupt, a negative role model for young women, perverting young male minds etc etc? Alternatively, perhaps, the idea is to show how up-market the contestants have become, how socially equitable it is, how much it can help third world communities etc etc?

    Perhaps....

    No wait! ....

    Imitation a là Bullock! ....

    i.e. Lady Em is going to be a contestant?

    (Er .... Nope! Failure to qualify on two issues! Matrimony and kids! Oh well, be assured Lady Em wouldn’t be short of votes if she tried for “Reporter of the Year”)

    But wait! Hang on just one teensy weensy microscopic minute minute !
    There’s a serious issue that may come out of this trip if one skews the aim just a nanometre bit more ’local’ ....

    Question:

    What has gone so wrong - assuming that it has (?) - with UK society and the British education system that such a large number of youngsters see ‘fame’ as their career ‘target’?

    How about it Nn?

    -------------------

    Postscript.

    An actor’s typing skills have been used to disguise the typing skills of the guilty party and all names, places and events have been changed to prevent litigation.






  • Comment number 22.



    Yippee!

    (And .... Thanks!)

    Now if I just new where I went wrong the first time?

  • Comment number 23.

    the Euro: 3 quick comments,

    1. there is no reason why a single currency cannot be stretched over the whole of Europe.
    2. the regions of the UK would probably like to have regional currencies, which could have mitigated the pain caused by the neo-liberal Thatcherite/nuLabour policies that destroyed the regions in benefit to the City.
    3. there are two main currencies in the EU, and for the UK to turn our back on the Euro is to allow (demand?) that the other EU countries turn their back when £ is in trouble.


    camoron on Germany's banning of "naked short selling" - "In the UK we have handed that power to yet another Quango.". How nice, our political class has transferred control over financial instruments over to unelected, unaccountable, appointed, feather-bedding and non-transparent bodies. Gee, bet the Euros are SO envious of the UK!!


    stephanie flanders: on the Euro problems "long term" - see my comment '2' above.


  • Comment number 24.

    #22: annoying, isn't it? :)

  • Comment number 25.



    Response to:

    24. At 11:12pm on 21 May 2010, gnuneo wrote:

    Yup!

    Very!

  • Comment number 26.

    It's infuriating to hear Leftie journalists, such as Stephanie Flanders, give credence to the long-term criticisms of the structure of E.U. 'monetary' union.

    Weren't the same people, eleven years ago, decrying these critics with the terminology they always employ: lunatics; Europhobes (as opposed to 'eurosceptics'); 'little Englanders'; xenophobes, more generally; etc.?

    It's always been a bit rich, when 'look, Euros come out of a cash machine!', has always been their level of analysis.

    The media appears to be trying to cover its blushes.

    Perhaps, in their favour, though, this crisis offers them some hope. They can now start proselytising for harmonisation of fiscal policy. Expect Channel 4 News, Newsnight and The Today Programme to bang this new drum for the next few years. The BBC will take the lead, naturally.
    ...........

    As someone already disillusioned by the Conservative coalition, I don't for a second believe Cameron would veto a new treaty; not that there would be one, of course, except to destabilise the U.K. govt. As it is, the federalists have all the power they need, and if they didn't, they'd do whatever they want, anyway.

    No, this coalition is a disaster.

  • Comment number 27.

  • Comment number 28.

    THEY ARE MENTIONING THE WAR

    When Tony went to war on The Truth, to enable his personal alliance with Dubya, those around him made POLICY judgements, when they should have been paying attention to PERSONALITY - the deluded personality of Tony.

    Now, in the Labour leadership squabble, apologists such as Tessa Jowell, are claiming 'intelligence' led their decision to support Tony. Tessa is no judge of character.

  • Comment number 29.

    Has anyone seen the photo of The Queen, wearing a pink outfit, unveiling in brilliant sunshine the namesake statue at Westminster School?

    She looks very happy!

    mim

  • Comment number 30.

    THE SMILE ON THE FACE OF THE MONARCH (#29)

    I hear her private health scheme is comprehensive, and fully paid up Mim.
    Would that all old people, facing infirmity, could wear that smile.

    What is more, I understand assisted death (denied the masses) is documented in royal circles. Were that available to me, EVEN I would wear a smile at 80-odd!

  • Comment number 31.

    BUT WILL THEY GET AWAY WITH IT?

    #28 Barriesingleton

    I have no evidence that the two candidates speaking out against their parties decision to invade Iraq are doing so out of any desire to be ‘of the people’ thus see it as part of a vote winning strategy. But since they were not MP’s at the time their stance is less important than if one of Tone’s Crone’s decided at the time decided to put their hands up and say............ ‘Sorry, we were wrong.’

    Yep. Still 24 degrees here – no sign of hell freezing over then!

    Politicians seldom admit wrong decisions (bit like football managers) or say sorry, or change their minds. But maybe that’s because on the odd occasions they do ‘turn’ the media lambast them for doing so, and give no credit for being able to take on board other positions or evidence. Damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

    No wonder there is a specific ‘type’ who are apt to put themselves forward for such roles.

  • Comment number 32.

    #30

    I appreciate what you are saying, singie, and The Real Queen I should imagine can TRUST her medics while so far I've been sold down the river starting from the brain surgeons, through the bowels ones all the way to some of the GPs.

    They are all 'seemingly', very civil and 'nice' with me but that just about it. I have no real complaints against 'ordinary' admin staff, however, as they are themselves caught up in their 'bossess'' lies.

    Nevertheless, I have very good reasons to feel happy about the happy smile on Her Majesty's Face.

    M

  • Comment number 33.

    #31

    Brightyangthing

    My thoughts were very similar to yours about the two Labour candidates' motives for speaking against the second invasion of Iraq. The worst thing, however, remains of the 'cowboy' handling of the process once victory was declared. It was quite obvious that the majority of the Iraqi people were happy about Sadam Hussain being deposed but the Allied Forces made the proverbial you know what of the aftermath thus losing a lot of support. It's only in the latter year or so did the Allied Forces manage to win at least partial respect in the ravaged country.

    By the way, was it gnu who called George W Bush - David W Bush? I wonder why? I'm looking forward to C Rice's book to come out apparently in 2011. That should make a revealing and fascinating story, I'm quite convinced.

    M

  • Comment number 34.

    #32

    Brightyangthing

    Re: politicians not changing their minds

    Aren't we currently witnessing David Cameron's, brave in my view and risky from the Tory right wing point of view, preparedness to reconsider his own ideas for the sake of the future of the country by listening and co-operating with the LibDems which apparently, according to polls, is backed by the majority of the voters?

    I can see that gnu is not happy with DC any more (as per #26)

    M

  • Comment number 35.

    #32 addendum

    While writing the above post, I experienced a blank about the precise term for bowels docs. They are called Gastroenterologists.

    M

  • Comment number 36.

    'BOWELS DOCS' (# 31 35)

    In recent years there has been a rash of 'Doctors' popping up in the Westminster Bowels. They are selected for their ability to function in the slimy dark.

    Nick'll fix it. Sunlit uplands here we come.

  • Comment number 37.

    #36

    At least it has now become common knowledge, singie. It's only a question who's going to be forgiven or not even mentioned by name. Not 'Jesus of Nazareth' = jj?, i.e. gnu, and his other impersonifications, that's for certain.

    M

  • Comment number 38.

    #37 addendum

    It wasn't/isn't only Westminster politicians, isn't it true, singie? Both higher and lower

    M

  • Comment number 39.

    #36

    Do you mean 'nick' for prison, singie?
    If so, they are bound to have docs on site with scalpels to hand.

    M

  • Comment number 40.

    #36 again

    What did you mean by sunlit uplands? Wimbledon
    Village by any chance as indicated by a car with 52 on a number plate as I was leaving home?

  • Comment number 41.

    DAVID (DIDDUMS) MEALYBAND HOLED BELOW THE WAR-LINE

    Well - that's him out the running. What a banana! "Don't mention the war"? You can almost hear his childish wail: "IT'S NOT FAIR - TONY SAID WE HAD TO."

    Westminster politics at its disgraceful best. Balls will not want to mention disappearing money - that's for sure.

    NOW it's going a bit better!

    PS Dannatt says 'of course Afghan girls should be going to school'. Why? Are BMWs so much better than babies? We are second most miserable country in the world. I remain to be convinced.

    Discuss (:o)

  • Comment number 42.

    #41

    Well, it's all relative, singie, but how does the saying go? - 'It takes one rotten apple.., or 2 or 3. Hitler was one, and there were Stalin & Caeucescu, if that's the correct spelling /probably not/.

    I'm in a park, named after Her Majesty's Father: people are strolling about or sitting on benches/grass talking or reading
    books, mum's and dads are out with their offspring on bikes surrounded by well kept greenery and so on so forth.

    I'm continuing with Barack Obama's 'Dreams from my Father', recording images on my camera and exercising.

    M

  • Comment number 43.

  • Comment number 44.

    Assisted death for royals? (No. 30) I don't think I'd wear a smile about that, considering what is said to have happened to Edward II, and what certainly did happen to Charles I, by way of assistance.

  • Comment number 45.

    LET ME TAKE YOU BY THE HAND, AND SPEND LONG HOURS IN A 'CARE' HOME (#44)

    I will show you something to make you change your mind.

    As previously posted - I watched my brother beg for death. We common folk, all too often (unlike royals) are reduced to beggars.

  • Comment number 46.

    HALF AN OAF IS WORSE THAN NO OAF AT ALL. (#43)

    Nice to see them catching up. Now they have to dump the unworkable 'nulear sun' theory and 'go electric'. Search Holoscience.

  • Comment number 47.

    Max Keiser explains 'short' and 'naked short' selling and how the inadequacy of the clearing houses allow what amounts to counterfeiting click on 'download here' under 'evening, y’all.' its an mpeg sound - download.

    http://maxkeiser.com/

    Its not that difficult but concentrate on it to understand.

  • Comment number 48.

    is this the reality behind the surge in afghanistan too?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbVf1PXpN3w&feature=related

  • Comment number 49.

    45

    the role gamers need others to play the role of inferior to their superior. otherwise the role game doesn't work.

  • Comment number 50.

    #31: brighty,

    "But since they were not MP’s at the time their stance is less important than if one of Tone’s Crone’s decided at the time decided to put their hands up and say............ ‘Sorry, we were wrong.’"

    "wrong" in that particular case leads them to the war crimes tribunal.

    #33 M,

    "The worst thing, however, remains of the 'cowboy' handling of the process once victory was declared. It was quite obvious that the majority of the Iraqi people were happy about Sadam Hussain being deposed but the Allied Forces made the proverbial you know what of the aftermath thus losing a lot of support."

    actually, there is a fair amount of evidence to indicate that the 'aftermath' as it happened *was* what was planned by the neo-cons, the LAST thing they wanted was a strong, free, democratic and liberal Govt. In fact, straight after the 'toppling', the underground Iraqi democrats came out and tried to hold municipal elections, which could have led rapidly to full national elections with the liberal opponents of Saddam's regime running on a broadly popular base.

    instead, as we now know, due to the US preventing those elections, religious figures came to the fore, and sectarian divisions exploited, leading to the corrupt Govt Iraq has today, which 'justifies' the continuing US presence.

    http://www.utopia-politics.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4436

    pretty picture, isn't it?


    #34: exactly *where* have i ever expressed anything but distaste for camoron? I am mortally offended! :p


    #37: mim, i love you like a sister, but i can assure you i have NO other aliases on the BBC. How much time do you think i have to spend on the net?? Btw, what is this "common knowledge", and who is it that must not be named?

    this is becoming like a Harry Potter sketch!!!


    #39: have you ever visited the 'Doctors' surgery at Auschwitz mim? If you have ever wondered what it is like for 'lesser animals' when they are vivisected living without anaesthetic, or all the other things 'Science' gets up to, just go there and open your mind to the atmosphere. I *really* don't recommend it though. If i could go back and undo that act, i would.


    #45: i DO hope you're not insinuating that Rich and Powerful people have to use the same rule-book as everyone else?! That's 'Commie-Talk', that is!!! :o

  • Comment number 51.

    #50

    "...."wrong" in that particular case leads them to the war crimes tribunal."

    Yes. A BIG issue. Raises HUGE questions. Such as, where does the finger of guilt point? To those who 'whipped' lies into the system or to the lapdogs who took the bait?

    The problem for MP's is that they have enormous power to wield for good or bad, often unwittingly yet there are few checks. For doctors, some engineers and other professionals, mistakes carry a heavy price and tribunals that may end their careers.

    So should they face such harsh realities???????????




  • Comment number 52.

    #51: the difference there is that professionals have a specific, well laid out 'oath' system that binds them to fulfil the criterion of their work - there is not (and i suspect it would be almost impossible to have) something similar for politicians.

    what is essential here, is whether or not the politicians at the time HAD been made aware of the Realities of the situation, whether they had been specifically told where they were going 'wrong' (such as Goldsmith's (right person?) advise that the war WOULD be illegal), and also what other imperatives had been placed upon them, by other, external actors.

    we will probably never know, but i have always wondered what pressure the neo-cons brought to bear upon Blair, and then on Brown, to continue with the neo-cons programs.

    but what is most important is what open, clear advice they had received. *EVERYONE* makes mistakes and errors, and that can only be magnified if no-one around them is being open, frank and honest.

    i actually feel quite sorry for most politicians - the environment they have to work in is currently probably like a mixture of MI5-like back-stabbing, sabotage, and deal-making. Can't trust anyone, can't rely on anyone, everyone around you is deliberately lying because pushing you down raises *them* up.

    add in having to make decisions that can literally affect not only millions in the UK, but quite possibly the future of the entire planet, to a greater or lesser degree.

    frankly, i would bet a huge amount of money that Gordon has simply been appreciating being free of that terrible responsibility and burden, and will continue to watch the ongoing game of knives and lies from the relaxation of his own Constituency.

  • Comment number 53.

    #43: AND the amount of Pirates!

    http://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=41806 (scroll down to post #9 for the serious comment.)

    ---


    gnuneo
    27 February 2010 at 20:43

    "i look forward very much to the research announced recently on the news, that will take back the data sources to around 150yrs ago to gain a more complete picture. (i think thats what they said). Once that data is available, and has been correlated with the sun-spot cycles (a 7yr cycle of which we have just ended, btw), then it should put all the data/research/hypothesis on a much stronger footing. I still regard AGW as more likely than not to be occurring, and although i totally reject this "Climategate Conspiracy" (the fact that the 'leak' originated from out of the FSB offices in Russia should have given some pause)"

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/02/climate-change-lynas-global

    even so, whether or not AGW is occuring, Mankind *MUST* move to localised, sustainable energy production, and reducing the use of oil in agriculture as much as possible. AGW may be a chimera, but peak-oil AND the consequences of unchecked pollution are very, very real.

  • Comment number 54.

    gnu

    I haven't read all your most recent posts and have only skimmed through the rest as I'm bored up to my teeth with your rants but yes, you seem to have lots of time as evidenced by your posts throughout all hours on some days and nights which often are a reaction to what I'm up to. Like for example, your post the other night warning me of going blue in the face if I hold my breath though I didn't bother to check your u-tube link.

    If you're not posting, then you're up to mischief otherwise, Auschwitz like.

  • Comment number 55.

    CASTING PHILOSOPHY BEFORE BLOGDOGS (#51)

    Beware of philosophical musing BYT! I have just had a benign piece removed from Susan's blog. (I suspect BD failed to catch its relevance, so thought it off topic.)

    I think the problem arises from a Westminster stuffed with power-hungry men and woe-men. Such are far removed from the pragmatic centre, tempered by wisdom. We really should not start from here.

  • Comment number 56.

    Climate change on the back burner? The UN thinks so.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/21/un-biodiversity-economic-report

  • Comment number 57.

    Brightyangthing

    I don't necessarily want to take the whole world to court, especially those who apart from engaging in this 'delightful game', who knows under what kind of pressure, deception and threats, including my survival, lead on the whole honourable and worthwhile lives. I'm much more interested in getting those who have deliberately, for personal profit and fame, involved themselves in planning the project, especially at its outset.

    I do have a few specific 'professionals' in mind but everything would have to be discussed with a lawyer, and here I do have somebody in particular in mind, and Jeremy Paxman since I have asked him to take care of my living will, a responsibility which may have become burdensome to him but I've been trying all I possibly can to act as a kind of mentor to him. And that's not even in return of anything that might happen in the future but rather for his and his family sake, and for him to believe in himself a bit more. I should imagine he knows what I'm talking about.

    mim

  • Comment number 58.

    WHICH SIDE OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS GOLDMAN SACHS BETTING ON?

    I presume data 'adjustment' and IPCC 'consensus' lead back to 'shorting' in some form?

  • Comment number 59.

    #56: lizzy! xxx

    #54: i'm sure you're a very sweet woman mim, however i have to break it to you that you are NOT the centre of my life. Not everything i write is a message to you personally, and to be honest i have not the slightest idea of who you are IRL, let alone any kind of 'games' involving you. You don't have to believe me, but its true.

    as for "Aushwitz mischief", i have been a tireless campaigner AGAINST that mentality, i have had little choice - for years my dreams have been invaded by what i experienced there. It may only be the pale-shadow that is found in dreams, but nonetheless ever since there are times when that darkness returns, and self-destruction can seem a better option than staying in a world where such things happen. Not helped by unwisely choosing a few 'friends' who turned out to have an interest in reading about, and experimenting with, psychological mind-games.

    but you have *your* problems too, right?

    what i have written as "gnuneo" has generally improved the world, and hopefully reduced the chance of further mass horrors, i believe. It might all be farting-in-the-wind, but at least i have tried. I'm no "perfect person", i'm certainly no "Jesus Reborn", but the worst thing i do is occasionally masturbate. (i went to a Catholic school for part of my childhood, even obviously nonsensical ideas are hard to remove later on!). --Bet you didn't need to know that!! lol :D

    you seem convinced i'm part of a conspiracy against you, i'm not.


    i have much more important things to worry my few braincells about. Sorry. x

  • Comment number 60.

    #59

    shortie's wishful thinking, singie
    doesn't wash with me, whatever the pressure and from which side
    I only have my life to lose though am not feeling at all desperate, heart and soul wise

  • Comment number 61.

    #60 correction

    It was meant to be as a response to #58

    #59

    I am the centre of your attention though you're using me to either get at others or attract attention of/towards others.

    My belief is that you're very confused about what you're really after. You seem to want it all but life is never as generous as that with just one individual.

    I wonder what you mean when you talk about yourself improving the world.

    P.S.

    Do you remember the card 'Custard, darling?'. Well, you're not getting it, too late mate. I have recovered my sense of self-respect. 'Do you know what I mean?', 'Can't see the wood for the trees', Tesoc's advert with D Moore about chicken coming back home,

  • Comment number 62.

    Brightyangthing

    One of my main concerns is for the profitable 'experiment' to be stopped rather than being taken over by others, while, as I said, the past needs to be discussed. I really want to avoid naming everybody leaving them in a permanent stink.

    mim

  • Comment number 63.

    #61: i find you more interesting than most posters, and like me you are willing to be quite open and personal, which is why i reply to you so often.


    i "want it all"? All i have ever wanted is something of a quiet life together with someone with whom i am in love with. Many have that, and there is no confusion about it.


    "I wonder what you mean when you talk about yourself improving the world."

    i trained as a teacher, and i have raised awareness and knowledge about what is *really* happening in the world, so that it can be prevented in the future. Are you also not doing so?


    "Do you remember the card 'Custard, darling?'. Well, you're not getting it, too late mate. I have recovered my sense of self-respect. 'Do you know what I mean?', 'Can't see the wood for the trees', Tesoc's advert with D Moore about chicken coming back home,"

    i'm very glad you have recovered your sense of self-respect, i do not understand what that has to do with me, i have no idea who you are. The rest of that paragraph makes no sense. Can you clarify it?

    btw, if that photo link you published a few weeks ago of a polish journalist was you, i don't think we have ever met. How on earth can i have had an effect on your life???

    i hope you continue to get stronger, and that Life continues to support you. All the best mim. xx

  • Comment number 64.

    gnu

    I only respond to you as a way of communication with The Queen, Jeremy, the lawyer I have in mind and the new government.

    M

  • Comment number 65.

    mim,

    "but what is most important is what open, clear advice they had received. *EVERYONE* makes mistakes and errors, and that can only be magnified if no-one around them is being open, frank and honest."

    i hope the Queen, Jeremy, Lawyer and the new Govt appreciate your honesty. That way they can understand what is happening, and change their behaviour if it causing you problems.

    such honesty has been highly noticeably lacking in *my* life in recent years.


    if anything i have done or said to you has directly caused you distress, my apologies. I hope you find what it is *you* seek, and that you do not regret it later, whatever it might be.


    peace and love.

  • Comment number 66.

    #64 addendum

    I also think that Barack Obama, Angela Merkel and the Polish PO are on my side despite singie claiming that the President of the USA is in his and your pocket.

    Brightyangthing

    It's now only the question of how to proceed in the interim. Playing 'them' at their own game? I know that gnu is trying to use you but hope that you're above now his machinations. How you deal with him is up to you, I'm not a dictator.

    mim

  • Comment number 67.

    58. At 00:16am on 23 May 2010, barriesingleton wrote:

    WHICH SIDE OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS GOLDMAN SACHS BETTING ON?

    I presume data 'adjustment' and IPCC 'consensus' lead back to 'shorting' in some form?

    -----------------------

    Hey barrie!....when I looked up to see who had written that...I expected to see the name of JC!

  • Comment number 68.

    #65

    It's certainly not The Queen that needs to change her behaviour, of that I'm 100% sure.

    As for Jeremy and the Lawyer, well, we're working it out.

    M

  • Comment number 69.

    #67

    Brightyangthing

    I think who JC 'stands for' but shall be kind enough not to speculate openly about it.

    M

  • Comment number 70.

    BYT

    One way of dealing with dictators is certainly not by appeasement. Neville Chamberlain tried and failed:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain

    On the 'funny' side, the thing is that currently we have to deal with 2 in 1, i.e. Adolf & Neville 'inhabiting' one body, with others, as per my previous posts, also seem to have found a 'corner' for themselves.

    On the very serious side, the 'all in one' crook seems to have links with terrorist organisations, 'echoing' correspondence happening on these pages.

    M

  • Comment number 71.

    #70 addendum

    Having said all that, I'm not expecting a III World War to break out as these days diplomacy, though not appeasement, should be strong enough to cope with the situation.

    I am being made into a martyr but of strong enough constitution to survive it all, I think.

    M

  • Comment number 72.

    #70 another addendum

    I should have said 'links to terrorist organisations, thugs and criminals'

    M

  • Comment number 73.

    A little interlude from tragedy.

    Yesterday I tempted fate with my head and went out in the heat to view some art, in fact I wanted to see some of the art that influenced me as a teenager again.

    Nicolaes Eliasz - 1610 - 1640

    http://www.bmagic.org.uk/objects/1973P8

    This is technically brilliant and in staggering condition - standing in front of it gives the feeling that the paint is still wet - it has no cracks.

    Giuseppe Maria Crespi - 1690 - 1700

    http://www.bmagic.org.uk/objects/1955P112

    Technically not in the same league as Eliasz but still very finely painted and psychologically intense which places it in a stronger position.

    Jacob Ochtervelt - 1670 - 1672

    http://www.bmagic.org.uk/objects/1955P113

    Unfortunately the photographer didn't get at just how amazing the painting of her dress is. The subject is also unfortunate - the lot of women of the time and for thousands of years.

    "The maid alludes to the young lady's future domestic role in
    servitude to her husband."

  • Comment number 74.

    A story about the Duchess of York has broken out:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8699139.stm

    Women complain about men, and sometimes for very good reasons indeed, but some men have very good grounds to complain about women as well.

    P.S.

    What I don't understand is where she gets her money from for the charitable work that she does for terminally ill children in Poland and about which I wrote the other day.

    mim

  • Comment number 75.

    During this fantastic weather I have been busy in the garden, so catching up with comments during the week-end absence of NN.
    #29 on 21st May, my post:
    “on lizzie's Telegraph link: If you take the view that the state should concern itself only with behaviour – with what people do, especially insofar as it affects other people, rather than what they think or feel – then you will be more likely to veer to the Right.” My comment: ‘And deliberate extreme measures by government to affect what we think and feel (by mass immigration) will inevitably result in deliberate extreme behaviour in response.’ To which Go1 #36 responded:
    “So did you want to expand on "deliberate extreme behaviour in response" as its pretty meaningless otherwise? You mean some racists will be cooking up ricin and you applaud that? You are a toothless sheep trying to gnaw at a dead whale as you never really get down to the essence of your beliefs and show that there is some difference between the races. (plus Go1’s usual rants about BNP)“

    Ignoring the weird metaphor insult (I’m no sheep and still have my own teeth –and a thick skin) I note that Gnu corrected you: my comment (as always) was about culture, NOT race. Gnu also commented on my post on English (sub) culture as follows:

    “Would that that be the sub-culture that decided to invade and destroy foreign countries for the whim of a religious mad-man in another country? Would that be the sub-culture that has removed so many ancient British Freedoms and Rights on this fictional War on error? Or do you mean Islam, that has about as much chance of becoming the UK's dominant sub-culture as i have of becoming Queen?”

    Our children are being taught to despise our role in ‘empire building’ with some justification. It was an age of such indulgence by most ‘developed‘ nations (Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, etc) all ‘claiming' undeveloped areas of the globe. But surely on the credit side it brought many improvements to people’s lives and governance?
    Most of us marched for NO WAR IN IRAQ, but our parliamentary system was as unresponsive to public opinion as was our head of state. I hope some of these constitutional weaknesses will be corrected in the ‘real’ Queen’s Speech due next week (or will you be taking over soon Queen Gnu 1st? (LOL). And yes,like many,I do fear the dominance from that particular religious, ideological and political sub-culture. Dominant in numbers, growth and, to me, more alien and in-your-face than any other sub-culture.

    Hence the response of assertiveness by English Democrats and others.QED

  • Comment number 76.

    #75 indignantindegene

    "I note that Gnu corrected you: my comment (as always) was about culture, NOT race. "

    To put things into perspective your words were about culture but as ever that's not the whole story.

    Your id is indignant indegene and you have said before that that is a take on "indigenous" and therefore that is a pretty good indicator as to what drives you.

    Do many people go to gatherings where people will say "I am indigenous" - though the roots of Britishness are very wide and some would say that new Ghurka citizens for instance are very British and that those, for instance, who love the philosophy of our mortal enemy the National Socialists are not British.

    Our racial and cultural roots are wide and culture is not something that is contained by race.

    As for rants about the BNP for a long time there were posters trying who wanted to "take people on a journey" and "explicate" the benefits of National Socialism over democracy.

    When you consider the evils that they try to propagate such as "Jewish hegemony" and Holocaust Denial and racial differences in intelligence then I am sure that English Democrats will take no time in putting great distance between them and such malevolence and to make clear that they are not motivated by race.

    So are you saying you are an English Democrat who is indigenous and that there is a difference between you and say an Asian English Democrat?

  • Comment number 77.

    Just a few other observations before returning to my veggie garden.

    Watched Andrew Marr Show:
    Andy Burnham looks too young to be a future PM, but may be too old by the time Labour return to power. He agreed that Labour were in denial and should have led more discussion about immigration. However, unlike other leadership candidates he doesn’t lecture in a patronising manner, which reminds me how pleasant it is to watch TV with no Lord Meddlesome talking down to us. Is he still an ‘honorary’ Lord, now that his engineered induction specifically to come to the aid of a failing PM is no longer needed?

    Despite the interviews and frequent footage of the disruption of the ACAS talks I can’t find out what it was that the protesters were chanting, or their motive. Willie Walsh was not really drawn by Marr on the main stumbling block - withdrawal of perks from those staff involved in last strike. It’s not a contract right and more a privilege too far in my BA experience. I was obliged to use BA when employed by British Gov’t and have avoided BA after they refused to move me to a non-smoking seat as requested, knowing that several of their employees were occupying Business and First-Class seats for free travel. My oft-claim that ‘one man’s advantage is another’s disadvantage’ applies here, so I hope this issue is not conceded.

    Marr asked Walsh if he had been ‘too high testosterone’ in his negotiations. Personally, I like to see that difference between the sexes, and maybe he should try the ‘Hard Man followed by the Soft Women’ switch as I used to great effect as the Gov’t Negotiator with a very aggressive and violent overseas trade union; it worked wonders.

    Dambisa Moyo brought a delightful feminine change from the usual trousered women, often billed as ‘actors’ rather than ‘actresses’ on the Marr Show. She is both beautiful and bright,but I would say that as I have previously mentioned that a Zambian was once the love of my life, but sadly incompatible culturally. (Go1 please make a note of this)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dambisa_Moyo

    With that, I’m back to haunching up my potatoes.

    – It’s all G(r)owing Very Well Barrie!

  • Comment number 78.

    #13 gnuneo

    "do you think clegg and laws were on this 'Left' of the Liberals?"

    Well I would say that I am and I was perfectly happy with the arrangement of the coalition barring I would like to have seen PR rather than a referendum on AV.

    Clegg is sometimes described as being "right" but in the leadership contest with Huhne there were no significant differences between them.

    The tribal and class notions that underpinned the old two party toffs and real people charade have passed and people want real choice and to be sure that it is THEIR aspirations that are expressed and not the aspirations of a tiny political elite.

    The coalition was in the National Interest and both sides have had to compromise and modify their positions for the good of the nation and for the first time in a long time that means the aspiration of some 64% of the voting public are largely being satisfied. That is better in my world than say a majority government based on 36% of the vote as has happened in recent times.

    Hopefully though those who want decisive majorities but accept the will of the people in these circumstances like Liberal Democrats would not number heavily amongst those who dissent from the arrangement that lasts for five years before decoupling.

  • Comment number 79.

    gnu 'declares war on error' while himself has made and is continuing to make so many errors himself, and worse, there isn't even a tiniest margin of tolerance left

    M

  • Comment number 80.

    #80. addendum

    nor is there for any of his persistent followers, singie & co

    M

  • Comment number 81.

    #77 indignantindegene

    "a Zambian was once the love of my life, but sadly incompatible culturally. (Go1 please make a note of this)"

    Duly noted "indegene".

  • Comment number 82.

    One area of inconsistency that may cause the coalition government problems is the referendum on AV.

    The Lib Dems want PR and can have a referendum on AV. They can't campaign without saying that actually they would prefer PR but AV is better than we have or they will harm their long term commitment to PR.

    Therefore the Tories have to be able to accept that PR will be discussed during the campaign for AV.

    The country probably won't take AV and may not even take PR - depending on the bar as I assume 66% but maybe 51% is enough - so why not let the Lib Dems campaign on PR as they believe that they are right and the country will reject the notion?

    The longer people have to think through the logic of a current system that could have seen a Labour minority government based on third place in the popular vote the more amenable to change they will be.

    If the coalition don't identify that the legitimate boundaries for debate some may interpret it as uncontrolled mission creep.

  • Comment number 83.

    This Sarah Ferguson stuff is classic distraction nonsense. What the establishment is worried about happened during the BA /union talks - the mob. Well if the public ever really get an understanding of what the bankers have done and that the they have to pay - unemployment, more debt and destitution we will have a Greece mob style situation. This will happen with the job losses and the potential for hyper inflation. Things get nasty when people have no money to buy food, no job and you see the media talking down 'naked short selling' as a 'side show'. You then realise that they are part of this dangerous problem along with a govt that will not act as Merkel.

    Strongly suggest you listen to Max Keiser and James Rickards. Max comes across as a bit potty - madcap, but he really knows his stuff as does Rickards.

  • Comment number 84.

    THE POPE’S UK VISIT

    To show that I am not prejudiced against just one particular religion only, I posted my comment on the above item on BBC’s Have Your Say yesterday:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/05/who_should_pay_for_the_popes_v.html

    "A dangerous precedent to set, to welcome - and pay for - for the leader of a religious sect. What if the leaders of the other 99 faiths and fables want to come here on a paid trip? Are the British public allowed protest marches and demonstrations during his visit, or will they all be kettled up with violence again? Pity you've stopped the 'Recommended' vote on every comment. Even without that it's pretty obvious that the majority (of 450 comments so far) are clearly against the British public paying any part of the expenses, with many against the whole idea of a state visit being provided."

    When BBC posted this item for HYS they included some ‘sample’ responses, which bore absolutely no resemblance to the overwhelming majority of comments. That is why I preferred the previous option to ‘Recommend’ comments and to see a running total in order of ‘recommended votes’.

    Obviously the BBC has its own agenda and idea of ‘transparency’.

    “Mgr Summersgill estimated the last visit by a pope, in 1982, cost between £15m and £16m. According to the Bank of England's inflation calculator, an event costing £16m in 1982 would cost about £42m today”

    And with the security stepped up due to the wrath felt against the Catholic Church and expressed in the HYS blog £42m would perhaps be too low an estimate?

  • Comment number 85.

    'Churchill's Choice' Policy rolling out in afghanistan.

    Consistent with the new and undeclared [milliband never told anyone officially] uk afghanistan policy of churchill's choice' NATO is creating village militias to 'fight the taliban'. This report shows the militias murder and rob civilians who say they are worse than the americans because its 'our own pashtun people being cruel and stealing from us'.

    the basis of churchills choice is to forget nation building and work through the tribes whoa re given a free hand to deal with their 'cultural and personal vendetta issues'. So uk policy is not about democracy, rule of law, womens rights or education not about human rights and all about arrogance and stupidity and incompetence of the political class.

    see the report

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL5OrU-G5sY

    the change in policy means we are not there for high minded liberal interventionist aims but now thrashing about like an alligator caught in a trap.

    file under -'why do they hate us'.

    non of this is worth one british life.

  • Comment number 86.

    monarchy role gaming is anti democracy, anti equal human rights [for all]-see the treason laws- and is an intellectually backward philosophy based on a series of false beliefs and delusions that demands a constant humiliation [a keeping in their place as charles said a few years ago] of all those they call 'lower orders' and 'common'.

    even the 'house of commons' is a monarchist pejorative label. in keeping with such role gaming labelling one might what different in the monarchist mind would there be in calling it the 'house of oiks serfs and lackeys' rather than the house of people's representives'?

    monarchy and its name calling language is not a force for good.

  • Comment number 87.


    I would like to know the details of the BBC's technique on this:-

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/7598141/BBC-uses-prisoners-to-work-on-programme-archive-plan.html

    Thompson - 'we employ the best and therefore have to pay the best' ... blah blah blah

    Exploitation morals aside

    Probably the correct way to do it is cold storage with humidity control :-

    http://www.wilhelm-research.com/

    Transfer to digital may give you better access but it will not necessarily be archival unless the discs are gold and stored correctly. So seriously what is the technique ?

  • Comment number 88.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 89.

    THE OLD MONARCHY PLOY (#87)

    Too right Jaunty. Monarchy is the lynch-pin for the whole cascade of hypocritical, dishonourable, patronage-based, feudal iniquity, managed from The Royal Palace of Westminster.

    That ought to get me a nice stay in the Tower. I'll write me book.

  • Comment number 90.

    The rejigging of alternative flights is proving tiresome.

    I see the Socialist workers and skateboarders association have proven their worth again.
    Is it not bad enough that the hate riddled Unite union and BA were deep in talks in trying to break the dead-lock without these nut-jobs getting in on the act. Not one of them looked like they had work in them anyhow but they go on about the 'workers' all the time..oh the irony, and if they've got jobs they'll be from the public sector; the mandarins, the social workers, lecturers from unknown Universities and the mentally deranged Liberal who could never hold a job down in the private sector.
    I feel sorry for British Airways and especially the chief Willie Walsh. They need to bring down costs due to intense competition within the industry but the need to do this has been held up by the idiots at Unite who believe their members are deserving of this long protracted fight. BA cabin staff get more perks and wages than any other cabin staff; take a look for yourself.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6957927.ece

    This on/off strike is only popular with the BA cabin staff, the Unite union and some time-on their-hands Liberal's.. but they have no popular support, except from that red-top rag; The Mirror, which has no noticable circulation (I thought it went bust yrs ago).. a bit like that other nightmare rag the Guardian.
    In the meantime the Unite union could potentially bring down one of our great companies, leaving it already tainted with disputes and angry customers. Many have already lost their loyalty to BA and are shopping around for alternatives anyways.
    I use BA when needed but you do pay through-the-nose and I have experienced some BA cabin staff that should never be near people let alone in the cabin crew profession...I have met some psychos in uniform before now on long flights. I have often wondered how these people ever got the job. I can only imagine that the Libs, messing with employment laws with their mental sickness over the years have removed any common sense discrimination that employers once had when going through the tedious but necessary recruitment process; filling quotas with the 'right mix of people',..that been Lib double talk for getting jobs for the useless. If I had my way, I would let BA go down the toilet, then sell the fleet with cabin crew provided to some Russian oligarch, who in turn would cut the cabin crew salary in half and then some, and any complaints from them, would, in response from their new Russian owner, have them mysteriously disappeared or infected with something nasty. The BA cabin staff don't know they're born, they really don't.
    And as for the Socialist workers and skate borders association. If you have any doubt about the mental illness of these types; the Socialist/Liberal radicals...just take a look at what they've done to our justice system and our borders over the years.

  • Comment number 91.

    here it begins: Vince Cable announces he likes the idea of privatising our roads.

    roads paid for by the tax-payer, will be sold for a fraction to multi--nats to start charging the very people who paid to have them built to use them!

    oh, and Royal Mail is to go too.

    Rothschild, Meddlesome and Osborne - perhaps cable is looking for a holiday on a luxury yacht as well?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/7756596/Coalition-considers-plan-to-sell-off-Britains-roads.html


    at the same time Clegg also reveals himself to be a true-blue Tory, but of COURSE it is all the outgoing Govts fault that he has to reveal this - otherwise it could have waited till next year. "It will be painful" he opines, not even nodding to the fact that the pain will almost exclusively be on the poorest in the UK. The coalition are even going to drop the 50% band tax. But you can bet VAT is going to break the 20% barrier, possibly as high as 25%.

    Life in the UK is OK... if you're a multimillionaire. The rest of us are to work till we die.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1280609/Age-plenty-warns-Clegg-condemns-Labours-black-hole-finances.html?ITO=1708&referrer=yahoo


    oddly, despite all this profligacy of the nuLabour Govt, even before we are once again under the tender mercies of the Tories, public services were being churned into the ground by pure Tory privatisation and 'Targets-isation'. I'm sure we can all sleep well knowing that organisations and services such as the one in this article will have to "cut waste". And if they can't actually achieve the 'targets', no doubt we will see more of them being sold off for peanuts to PFI multi-nats, but at least - as the article says - the current staff will have been trained in 'Marks and Spencer' staff techniques and behaviour. So i am sure the future is all rosy.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1280504/I-wouldnt-trust-hamster-Whistle-blower-lifts-lid-wildly-successful-NHS-trust.html?ITO=1708&referrer=yahoo


    -------

    oh, its all going SO wonderfully!

    UK-PLC - up for sale to the lowest bidder.

  • Comment number 92.

    attempted repost #88:

    Posting:
    #75: indie,

    "And yes,like many,I do fear the dominance from that particular religious, ideological and political sub-culture. Dominant in numbers, growth and, to me, more alien and in-your-face than any other sub-culture."

    were you also afraid of Islam in the 90s, before the neo-cons launched their wars? Culturally, Islam doesn't stand a prayer against Western Ideals, *if* we lived up to them. Economically, militarily? Don't make me laugh.

    the greatest danger is from our home-grown religious extremists, Christian, Atheist, and most worrying, reborn Feudalism.

    "Queen Gnu 1st"? ROFL! :D :D


    #77: on BA - bet those crew would have been more responsive to you had they actually had shares in the company. I could also see that there would be far less struggle over the "necessary" cuts to make the company "competitive". Of course, it would also be far less likely the managers who have driven (or flown? groan!) BA into its current problems would have been handing themselves multi £Ms in bonuses and wages if they had to justify that to the other shareholders (the crews themselves), indeed it is quite likely such incompetent managers would have been asked to step down years ago.

    this 'walsh' bloke is a straightforward [bleep] of the highest calibre - he was even claiming that the ash clouds "did not exist - they are a mirage", - in order to claim "compensation" from the Govt for its demanding BA and other airlines follow the *INTERNATIONAL SAFETY GUIDELINES*, no doubt.

    in response to him, i repeat what i said before:

    61. At 04:19am on 21 Apr 2010, you wrote:

    "for flights: simple.

    yesterday, when the owners and managers of the airlines wanted to ignore safety rules, then there should have been a flight - the worst plane in the fleet should have been filled with these people willing to take this risk with *other people's* lives, and flown through the worst part of the cloud 3 times. Then the engines checked. (The pilot would have to be a volunteer). This would have been a good test."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2010/04/tuesday_20_april_2010.html

    -------------
    #78: gangy,

    "Clegg is sometimes described as being "right" but in the leadership contest with Huhne there were no significant differences between them."

    --because they are *both* right-wing? There was a third person in the LibDem leadership contest (unfortunately i can't remember his name), and watching/reading that past LibDem leadership election was like a precursor to the last general election stitch-up between clegg and camoron.

    but in a way i agree with you - as long as these [bleep]s can be prevented from rewriting the UK Constitution to keep themselves in power forever (heck, if they can do it once, why won't they change it to need 80% of MPs to dissolve Parliament??), then there are several benefits to the system. Firstly, the Public can see what a coalition looks like, secondly they can actually have experience of having a Tory Govt that hates the People in favour of the Wealthy, and thirdly, Labour is rotten thru-and-thru with nuLabour wonks and apparatchiks, and having them as senior members in a rainbow coalition would have been a disaster - although that IS what i desired at the time, it is true.

    "...Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life..." ;)


    #82: its odd that people today seem to want to have a correlation between votes and seats in the House. Its almost as though they believe the UK really *is* a Democracy!! Bet its the same people who thought that the largest marches in UK history, against the Iraq War, should have had SOME effect on Govt.


    ..Idealists, eh? Sheesh, what can you do?!? :'(


    #83: flicks, pity *you're* not in the Treasury!!



    #84: but the Catholic Church is a very poor organisation, i'm sure they NEED the British Tax-payer to fork out for their Absolutist Leader to visit us. He can tell us again why contraception is bad, why women are second-class citizens who should be barred from any senior religious roles, and why "Islam is a money-hoarding, monolithic autocracy that has supported ethnic cleansing and Crusades to slaughter innocents in other Lands, for the enrichment of its corrupt Leadership, who live in huge palaces built upon the blood of the poor for millennia". Surely hearing all that is WORTH a few £Million or so of our money, right? Especially the last point.

    #85: JC, are you insinuating that the West's invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, for the what - 5th or more time in the last 200years?, is NOT for the pure benefit of the locals? I am HORRIFIED you could slander our well-meaning Rulers in such a fashion, after all, we no longer live in naked Imperial times, but in much softer, "compassionate warfare" times. Yes, pretty much EVERY invasion by nasty warmongering, blood-thirsty, resource grabbing States into weaker States has always been for "the good of the local populations" - but this time they REALLY MEAN IT!!

    our troops are dying, afghan civilians are dying, our Rulers are making ludicrous sums of profit from the private companies that are supplying the wars, either directly or in back-handers. All is well, go back to sleep.


    #86: would you prefer "President Blair"? :pukes:


    #87: PFI slave-labour? So yet another import from the US to improve our society. Oh Goody, 'lucky lucky' us.

    ---


    #89: you sound like a raving Commie to me... oh wait a minute, that was the last decade's terminology.. next page... ah, here we are. Yeah, you sound like a raving Muslim Fundamentalist to me!!!

    "tower" eh? "Towers" is what you REALLY meant - and *you're* off to Guantanamo, my friend! Try writing your book whilst your fingernails are being pulled out, or being water-boarded, or hanging from your dislocated shoulder-blades.


    umph - that is not as funny as it was intended to be... :(

  • Comment number 93.

    90

    its not treason to speak the truth but it is treason if you suggest something be done about it ie no automaticity for monarchy role gamers as head of state. to suggest that is to break the law. so the country is gagged from even debating it.

    iraq and afghanistan is more advanced than the uk. they have more 'democracy' and freedom of debate than we do. Indeed every arm and agent of the british state has to swear an oath to defending not the people and the laws and freedoms for all but the position of the role gamers as head of state. that is their sole function and line of operation. A system of government organisation where the ordinary people are assumed to be from day one 'the enemy'.

    so one has to play this ludicrous role game [no different to its a knockout] by law. And Liam Fox calls Afghanistan a 13th century state?

  • Comment number 94.

    #76 Go1 wrote:
    "To put things into perspective your words were about culture but as ever that's not the whole story. Your id is indignant indegene and you have said before that that is a take on "indigenous" and therefore that is a pretty good indicator as to what drives you.”

    You want ‘the whole story’ again?

    The ‘indignant’ part of my pseudonym speaks for itself, blogging being my main outlet for the indignation I feel at the deliberate destruction of the society in which I was raised. To avoid any confusion with ‘indigent’ (which I am not) I chose to spell it indegene rather than the more common spelling indigene, meaning simply - ‘belonging naturally to’.

    That is ‘what drives me’ having traced our family back through several centuries as Thames Boatmen and Watermen and with both my parents’ surnames that are clearly of these isles I ‘belong naturally’ more than do tens of thousands of imported ‘British’ - which originally meant ‘of the ancient Britons’ but has become a generic non-identifier that includes practically anyone allowed to settle here.

    “Our racial and cultural roots are wide and culture is not something that is contained by race.”

    I have never argued to the contrary, but as well as the issue of overpopulation of these small isles some immigrants have brought cultures, values and practices that are ‘alien’ to the English way of life, and are intent on challenging and changing rather than integrating as many smaller groups of immigrants have done successfully in the past.

    “So are you saying you are an English Democrat who is indigenous and that there is a difference between you and say an Asian English Democrat?”

    It is very unhygienic to put your words into somebody else’s mouth. I implied that governments that try to force our minds to accept alien beliefs and cultures may well expect there to be an equal and opposite reaction. When and whether that response of ‘forceful action’ comes from English Democrats or any other protest groups or individuals I can not say, but public protests are becoming an international phenomena (e.g. Turkey, Greece, Thailand, France) and the behaviour and flash point of a mixed culture is perhaps less predictable than used to be the case with ‘les Anglais avec lour habitual sang-froid’ if you will excuse this racist pun against ourselves.

  • Comment number 95.

    Nick Clegg: 'Recovery will be painful'

    Sadomasochists indulge in pain otherwise they wouldn't be repeating the same practice over and over again, while being prepared to endure pain in order to get better is a completely different story.

    M

  • Comment number 96.

    #79

    I wrote that text sitting on a bench in Kensington Gardens facing Queen Victoria sitting in her armchair, pondering on her REAL LOVE for Prince Albert

    mim

  • Comment number 97.

    #57 addendum

    Brightyangthing

    You asked me yesterday about taking medics to justice to which I replied that I don't necessarily want to do so with all of them as they may have been told all kinds of porkys about me and who knows under what kind of pressure.

    I think I have narrowed my investigations down to the main doc registered with the GMC, i.e. the General Medical Council, whose name I shall not mention here as it is still a bit of a guesswork on my part and in order not to prejudice my case.

    There are very strict ethical guidelines to how any experiment is conducted not only on humans but even on mice. I know something about it as after all I did work for medical researchers. Fpr example, one of them used to tell me stories how mice needed to be separated during particular experiments not to hear the distress of their counterparts, etc.

    There is also the question of properly conducted consent for any research undertaken by any medic. Below is a link regarding the issue of what migth happen to a doc who does not follow the GMC's guidelines:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8695267.stm

    P.S. I must say, it does take some cheek to be indulging in an experiment in front of the whole world conducted on a female not only for scientific purposes but also for maddening profits by attempting to turn her into a 'free' for all 'prostitute'. Have 'they' had the consent from the GMC?

    Little did 'they' know what constitution she's made of, what synapses she has at work in her brain, what kiind veins flow through her body and what upbringing she's been lucky to get!!!!

    M

  • Comment number 98.

    I find that talking to some people is like talking to a wall - stone/d deaf they are

  • Comment number 99.

    92

    ..we no longer live in naked Imperial times,..

    we do? all our awards are 'Empire awards' and the logic behind monarchy is to extend 'the realm'. The national oath, anthem, flag are all monarchist role gamer ditties and there is a curfew written in law against the british people even discussing changing it. millionaire landowners [guess who they are] get 4 billion a year subsidy merely for owning land. so the empire role gaming philosophy at the centre of uk society is very naked?

 

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