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Monday 1 February 2010

Sarah McDermott | 12:15 UK time, Monday, 1 February 2010

KIRSTY'S UPDATE ON TONIGHT'S PROGRAMME

Tonight on the show we are planning to lead with the news that President Barack Obama is deploying a missile shield around Iran. Why is the defensive shield being put in place now? Does this mean a significant shift in Washington's approach to Iran? We hope to have a discussion featuring the US State Department, an Israeli government minister and an Iranian voice.

Our Political editor Michael Crick has been to Northern Ireland to examine the relationship between David Cameron's Conservatives and the unionist parties. We'll also be following the twists and turns of the arguments over the power-sharing government's role in policing justice and parades.

Is John Terry fit to be the captain of the England football squad? We'll be debating issues of morality and leadership.

And we are talking to computer scientist and father of virtual reality, Jaron Lanier, about his new book, You Are Not a Gadget. To me he thinks the web has become rotten to the core, controlled by information giants, and stifling the creativity which was initially fostered by its birth...

Join me at 10.30pm on BBC Two.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FROM 12:15

Our Political editor, Michael Crick has been to Northern Ireland to look at the connection between David Cameron's Conservatives and the Unionists. Read more on that here.

Mark Urban is keeping an eye on the rising tensions between the US and Iran - the US is deploying a defence shield to help protect its allies in the Gulf from any attack by Iran.

And we'll be discussing Jaron Lanier's manifesto, You Are Not A Gadget, which explores the internet's vast potential and its problems.

More details later.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    Michael...why aren't you doing a piece on John Terry? As a loyal Manc you should be over the moon given Waynes fabulous display yesterday and as a Lpool fan that hurt but I admire good football and the Utd have it in spades at the moment so don't mess around with those backwoodsmen in the provinces, they will be at it in hundred years from now with their didvided education system, get back to blighty and fill us in on the shenanigins at the shed end.....

  • Comment number 2.

    How about a piece on Pliable Palin, plaything of Fox News, and the Republican Party?

    Does this new US Supreme Court Ruling mean that given a dearth of a viable political record for the Republicans, an excellent incumbent President and a lack of candidates we will get a Palin-Brown ticket and the corporations will do round the clock support for their puppets?

    Post McCarthyist smears made for TV on the "communism" of the Democrats will be typical rather than aberrations in the political arena?

    "Yee hah" Boulton as Secretary of State? A Murdoch as a media Tsar?

    Its truly mind boggling.

  • Comment number 3.

    HAVE WE DONE 'ARMS FOR TAIWAN'?

    It looks to me like a classic GLOPOLY move. Might it be something to 'bargain away' for a greater prize, in the drive to THE NEW WORLD ORDER (aka a Win at Glopoly)?

    A little help? (Not my field.)

  • Comment number 4.

    Cameron knows that none of the parties are likely to perform brilliantly and a hung Parliament looks likely.

    I would have thought the Unionist votes would not be enough and in any event there could be risks if the Sin Fein/DUP talks don't resolve policing.

    Its a pity that he did not consider that the UK is one of the dinosaurs in terms of fair voting and that a tactical deal with the Lib Dems would probably obliterate Labour in return for the system employed pretty well throughout the world in one form of another.

    Fairer voting would reduce the chances of people like Blair treating the UK as a plaything for his whims - such as Iraq. There would be no disproportionate majorities in relation to the votes cast.

  • Comment number 5.

    The implication of the Patriot deployment is I assume because they believe that Iran is getting desperate due to internal pressures.

    I believe that Iran stormed into an oil field in Iraq and that the West did not over react.

    Are they still there and is that the issue?

    Obama is said to be "arrogant" though I think when you look at his agenda in terms of things like civil rights and Health Care that's dubious.

    But he is not the kind of Blairite so loved by the Labour Party that gets an adrenalin rush every time there is the chance of an invasion and leaving a bigger "legacy".

    Meanwhile whilst Obama listens, thinks and then acts Palin just cuts to the "acting". Usually that amounts to discourses on the movement of dead fish in Alaskan rivers and how resigning as Alaskan Governor in favour of becoming a Fox "News" pundit.

    It seems that many in the fractured and possibly paralysed state of Iran don't want war and it would be a shame to give them a war without very good reason.

  • Comment number 6.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 7.

    THE POPE IS COMING - 'QUALITY TIME CONFESSION' FOR TONY?

    When the Pope comes to Britain, will he avoid Tony like a Leper?
    will Tony 'fess-up' unlike his Chilcott 'DENIAL DENIAL DENIAL'? (The cock was apparent, but Tony crowed FOR it.)

    Might we hope for lightning? Can a Pope make a pontif's arrest?

  • Comment number 8.

    On the "You are not a gadget" piece I would think one of the big problems is how those with twisted minds and far right views can promote the hideous lies of the history of National Socialism and in particular Holocaust Denial/"Agnosticism". They will twist any argument with blatant lies and therefore you can't trust your sources.

    The science that underpins multi-racial values is not challenged in any court. The BNP supporters will rant on about science showing there is a difference between the races in intelligence but won't show up in a court with the EHRC with regard to membership policies to show that they have proof - nor in any journal.

    The trial of the alleged Nazi death camp guard Djemjanjuk, or any other Nazi war crimes trial, has yet to see this abundance of "proof" that there was no Holocaust.

    You don't actually make such deliberate lies by accident - so they are quite conscious that their own arguments are vacuous.

    I assume that is why so many far right would-be bombers are being found of late. The emotional need precedes any intellectual justification.

    Naturally its not just the far right as clearly the Islamic BNP - al Qaeda - will rant on about Israel but ultimately 9/11 was the anniversary of the Battle of Vienna (gateway to Europe and the West) and the attempted Xmas Day bombing motives are not hard to work out ... though they are totally ineffective.

    Hatred is not easily banished from the internet society.

  • Comment number 9.

    Michael can also do a report on the financial affairs of Man United...that would be interesting. 700m million in the red, pun intended. Unlike Manchester City, a massive club as Keegan once called it - owned by an arab, yeah! makes me proud to be English, that an Arab can buy a massive football club...like its a play thing. I never understood the fans thinking this was great thing, I was mortified. Suffice to say I've given up following City and I've never got over their move away from Main Rd.. My Daughter once worked for Man Utd and she once brought home a signed football with certificate of the first team; Rooney and Co, she got it for selling the most corporate season tickets. She passed me the ball, I went outside the house and kicked it down the road... I enjoyed her frantic running whilst trying to recover the bouncing ball. She also gave me a signed Alex Ferguson book (she had to pay for that)...it sits on my shelf unread. If i ever have the urge to do a book burning...thats getting torched first, either that or sell it on Ebay when the time is right...if you know what i mean. If your wondering what became of the Man U Signed football. The daughter needed to raise some cash as she is going to South Korea - well, I Hope its the south - to teach English, so I gave her £300 for it. Why I'm sharing this with you I'll never Know. Maybe one day I'll post the ball to Crick c/o Newsnight seeing that he supports the luckiest team in the land...and no! just so that you know, i am not a bitter Blue.

  • Comment number 10.

    Last week, Broadcaster Ed Stourton was sacked from Radio 4's flagship Today programme.

    His departure was announced by the BBC late last year in which it said that he was leaving "to work on other projects".

    Radio 4 controller Mark Damazer said in an earlier statement: "Ed Stourton will continue to grace Radio 4 after he leaves Today.

    Hoever, Ed was reported to have been "devastated" after finding out he was to be replaced on the programme. "It was a complete surprise to me" he told the Guardian newsapaper. Stourton, who has presented Today since 1999, said it was "simply not true" he would be working "on other projects" after his departure.

    ---------------------------

    One just has to wonder if Ed's documentary 'Israel Accused', that won the Amnesty International Award for Best Television Documentary in 2001 had anything to do with his departure. At the time, Israel accused the BBC documentary on the Israel lobby, as being antisemitic.

    Mark Damazer is yet another prominent UK establishment figure to have studied or received training in the US. He is an alumni of Harvard University where he took up a Harkness Fellowship at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard.



  • Comment number 11.

    'Mark Urban is keeping an eye on the rising tensions between the US and Iran - the US is deploying a defence shield to help protect its allies in the Gulf from any attack by Iran.'

    One can only wonder how the USA would feel if it saw China deploying 'a defence shield' (by stationing troops in Greenland, Venezuela, Haiti and International waters off the coasts of the USA), 'to help its allies'?

    China and her allies will no doubt find other, probably inscrutable ways, to 'defend themselves'.

  • Comment number 12.

    Re my #6 ...2nd attempt!

    ‘When a burglar enters your house they leave human rights outside’
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2832805/David-Cameron-When-a-burglar-enters-your-house-they-leave-human-rights-outside.html

    ----------------------------

    How revealing it is when one free-market-loving anarchist has a pop at another f-m-l anarchist...basically chastising them for not saying what a proper f-m-l anarchist should say!

    Maybe it’s what politicians' (Cameron in this case) have do in order to win populist votes... i.e. denounce the absurdities of ‘liberal democratic’ f-m-l dogma...(Note! - WITHOUT making any promises of following through on the rhetoric!)

    (PS - Note the link to The Sun newspaper...who said that NN viewers are elitist?)

  • Comment number 13.

    The Box In The Corner

    According to the Guardian Letters Page, Blair mentioned "Iran" 58 times in his Chilcot speech.

    Now US has to send cover for allies in the Middle East.

    I am unaware of anything the people or indeed the rather authoritarian regime of Iran have done to Tony or the US, apart from inadvertently aid the former in his personal wealth creation project and cheekily detain some of the latter's citizens all those years ago.

    On the other hand we know that British companies, up until the Khomeini landing, did very well out of Iran, so well that when a democratically elected Iranian government nationalised the country's oil resources, the UK and the US engineered a coup d'etat which installed the "Shah".

    Iraq and Saddam were aided by UK and US in their war against Iran. And when he overstepped the mark, the US and the UK put him in his box, eventually.

    So don't be too surprised about Blair's rather authoritarian pronouncements and the US manoeuvres.

    Like Iraq, Iran poses no danger to the UK, US, Israel or any other country; their aggression has/is directed at their own citizens.

    Iran needs to restore ITSELF to a democratic state; my concern is that it will not be given the time to do so.

    Without wishing to sound like Rory Stewart, anyone doing business with Arabs/people of the Middle East knows all about the traditional bluster; so when someone says they've got WMD, it's advisable to pass the salt. This is exactly where Blair exposes his duplicity - once again. Blair knew there was no WMD, so by stating in Parliament that all Saddam had to do was give up his WMD and so continue in power, he knew it was impossible for Saddam to lose face, therefore he would continue the bluster and Blair would profit.

    The same scenario is building up with Iran and nuclear weapons.

    But - why so serious? Gordon Brown will incorporate co-operative/mutualist initiatives in the Labour Manifesto.

    Like Fred Goodwin joining CAFOD.

  • Comment number 14.

    Am I allowed to post this?

    http://www.secularism.org.uk/sharia-makes-its-first-incursion.html

    Sharia law by the back door?

  • Comment number 15.

    Odd post

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8490524.stm

    And all those wonderful ballons released for charity, and fun, kill thousands of turtles every year, especially leatherbacks, which are in sharp decline, and have been around since dinosaur days. Only one hatchling in a thousand survives. They eat ballons in mistake for jellyfish.

  • Comment number 16.

    13. At 3:59pm on 01 Feb 2010, kashibeyaz wrote:

    "Like Iraq, Iran poses no danger to the UK, US, Israel or any other country; their aggression has/is directed at their own citizens."

    ----------------------------

    ...and the biggest threats to the UK are probably the US and Israel.

    Oops!...I nearly forgot, they've already 'nuked' us, economy wise!

  • Comment number 17.

    ODD RESPONSE (#15)

    Whereas - we know, 'BEYOND DOUBT', as we release all manner of GM 'life' into the wild, it is totally without any conceivable consequence to Nature . . .

    Rather reminds one of all the life we released, in alien eco-systems, as we explored the world over the last few hundred years. That went well.

  • Comment number 18.

    "Is John Terry fit to be the captain of the England football squad? We'll be debating issues of morality and leadership. "

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1247540/BBC-producer-secretly-filmed-bed-TV-radio-presenters-hiding-camera-smoke-alarm.html

    'Many of the women Wilkins seduced hold senior positions in television and
    radio – both presenting and in production roles – but cannot be named for legal
    reasons.'

    ummmmm

  • Comment number 19.

    'we are talking to computer scientist and father of virtual reality, Jaron Lanier'

    Saying it doesn't make it true. Popularising a myth really doesn't make it reality either.

    More trouble has in fact been caused by people inventing and peddling closed-world mythologies (extensions of a priori mathematics) at odds with reality than is widely appreciated. Science and intelligent action has suffered as a consequence.

    Those who have disproportionately done so (cf. AI) have, in my view, done far more harm than good. Indeed, if Lanier is genuinely asserting that 'the web has become rotten to the core', it is ironic, given who the dominant players have been, and still are.

  • Comment number 20.

    STONE ME!

    "..... Is John Terry fit to be the captain of the England football squad? We'll be debating issues of morality and leadership."

    Perhaps I shouldn't but can't help wondering if this NON story would be being covered if Gavin was presenting tonight?

    Whilst I don't condone loose morals, and playing away, it does beg for a show of hands around the BBC/Westminster/Any football Stadium etc etc etc for anyone who is qualified to 'throw the first stone’.


  • Comment number 21.

    10. freemarketanarchist

    'One just has to wonder if Ed's documentary 'Israel Accused', that won the Amnesty International Award for Best Television Documentary in 2001 had anything to do with his departure. At the time, Israel accused the BBC documentary on the Israel lobby, as being antisemitic.'

    Some would say this is just politics.

    There was a recent article by Dershowitz on the evil Goldstone who wrote the critical report of Israel's military action last year. Surely the documentary 'Defamation' should resonate when one reads/hears such rebukes? Israel may well be Britain's friend, but does that give it licence to say and do as it pleases, or to investigate its own alleged war crimes, although it's hard to deny Israel that right if Britain does it (cf. The Iraq Inquiry)?

  • Comment number 22.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 23.

    Amazongate: new evidence of the IPCC's failures

    ..Contrary to the tendentious claim that its reports represent a "consensus of the world's top 2,500 climate scientists" (most of its contributors are not climate experts at all), it has now emerged, for instance, that one of the more widely quoted scare stories from its 2007 report was drawn from the work of a British "green activist" who occasionally writes as a freelance for The Guardian and The Independent.

    A Canadian analyst has identified more than 20 passages in the IPCC's report which cite similarly non-peer-reviewed WWF or Greenpeace reports as their authority, and other researchers have been uncovering a host of similarly dubious claims and attributions all through the report.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7113582/Amazongate-new-evidence-of-the-IPCCs-failures.html

    and

    ..The UN's climate change panel has been caught making unfounded claims for the third time in just two weeks.

    The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change used a student's essay and an article from a climbing magazine to make claims about reductions in ice on mountains.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1247616/Climate-emails-hacked-spies-claims-chief-scientist.html

    whoever leaked the email did the world a favour. they deserve medals for whistleblowing this bunch on would be ponzi get rich quick scammers.

  • Comment number 24.

    #20

    Preisely, BYT, with regard to stones

    mim

  • Comment number 25.

    23. jauntycyclist - Another good one, thanks.

    But....this is just (if you'll excuse the pun) the tip of the iceberg. This 'sexing up' of research has become more and more obscene over the years, and it's true across the sciences. Reports have been written, TV programmes broadcast, and committees have sat... but nothing much changes. This is what deregulation and 'anti-elitism' has resulted in, I suggest, but I'm sure all this has been written about ro no avail in the Newsnight blog(s) before?

  • Comment number 26.

    I haven't heard the name Jaron Lanier in a while, I remember when Thompson pulled the plug on VPL, apparently I was one of only a few people that got to hear the message Jaron left on their answer phone before it was replaced, I remember the emotion in his voice, it was all very sad. That said he wasn't the father of virtual reality, though he was one of the fathers of the Power Glove and Data Glove together with Zimmerman.

    The action against Iran isn't a surprise as another poster mentioned it was all nicely set up by Blairs speech at the Inquiry.

  • Comment number 27.

    I see Blair got his wish: that his constant ranting about Iran leads to him being an opinion former in warmongering reporting against the Persians. It isn't enough that the BBC played it's part in drumming the country to war for Blair, it's prepared for a repeat performance.

  • Comment number 28.

    What happened to the Israeli minister? Did you realise it might be bad form to invite an Israeli spokesperson on to discuss how they'd like to bomb Iran on the day that they admitted misconduct during the Gaza onslaught?

  • Comment number 29.

    Statist

    Your restrained posting is superb....if not essential....wiki is a god-send...I paid for it's non demise...I desperately need to see 'Defamation'. but can't find it free!...maybe i'll have to pay.......i'll pay anything!

  • Comment number 30.

    self-invented justice,'justice' everybody', eh?

    For what? Your own sexual obsession?

  • Comment number 31.

    Obey, or else, originalyy jj? David budgen?

    You're the best at damage, that's for sure.. May I wish you many happy sessions with the girls!

  • Comment number 32.

    Gordy. Happy?

    May I wish you 'succesful reign!

    mim

  • Comment number 33.

    Get them, Journalists!

    mim

  • Comment number 34.

    #33 continuation

    you know who I mean

    Gordy, mandy and their cronies

    mim

  • Comment number 35.

    David budgen. Are you in Paris, Brussels, or London?

  • Comment number 36.

    # ctd

    or maybe in Russia or China?

  • Comment number 37.

    Wnky, winky?

  • Comment number 38.

    A time machine doll with cooperation of my langlords?

  • Comment number 39.

    did he sqwirm like a toad. i like toads i dont like him. the father who would not shake his hand. hands clarted/covered in blood its far worse than that the idiot is drowning in the stuff. 5 mins wus enough for me i am a wimp

  • Comment number 40.

    let me get this straight bumped crashed collided with an old pal/mucker/mate of mine the other day he tells me that an iraqi idiot who slaughtered/murdered 2 docs has been given grant 2 stay in this countrey. I am so glad I dont pay tax. I wont/will not pay for that. You Idiots pay for it. I trust the youman right liar her/he has got the pubic gold.

  • Comment number 41.

    28. manchester me -

    It was all a bit hawkish wasn't it?

    The UK based academic putting the Iranian position came off best I thought. As to the absence of an Israeli spokesman, well, if it had been person who normally speaks for Israel, perhaps it was just as well for Israel's sake, as when he appeared on the news during the day yesterday, the anchor-person must have been seen to be 'hostile', as when asked why Israel had used 'banned' phosphorus shells, he initially said they were not banned, that they could be used as smoke munitions to cover troops etc, but had nothing substantial to say when it was pointed out that they must not be used in civilian populated areas.

    However, given that the USA had been very critical of the UN Goldstone Report (which is really what these Israeli responses are to) when it came out last year, I was prepared to give Dershowitz leeway given the ire he expressed in his interview (see 21). So I re-read the Executive Summary of the Goldstone Report to find evdience for what Dershowtiz said. I advise others to do too, to ensure that they they are being fair.

    Yesterday, the Israeli spokesman said that after an Israeli investigation, Israel had admitted that some unauthorized actions had taken place and that those responsible had been 'disciplined' (although he did speak of the 'fog of war' in their mitigation). However, in the Scotsman a slightly different story is reported.

    What are we to believe?

    How does one appear even handed with one's friends and allies when one's friends and allies publish a document (the PNAC document) which asserted an intention to spread the democratic dream across the world, including taking control of the internet?

  • Comment number 42.

    Please go and have a look at this site.... http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/mediaReports.php

    Even MORE people going to be able to live here, how are we going to cope with millions walking into this tiny island, it's impossible. When will the fighting begin, we are living like rats in barrel, the fighting will break out soon.

  • Comment number 43.

    42. ecolizzy - A case of England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, all tied up with (at one time) foreigners' sales?...

    Seriously, there isn't much to tie together anymore is there? Not with all this talk of RDAs etc. That was my point about the Mo Ch4 docudrama. Blair's government appears to have sorted the NI problem out only by breaking up GB/UK in favour of RDAs with the likes of Boris etc. presiding, and this internationalism has been done using all sorts of covert strategies.

    As there's an election coming up, all anyone not happy with the current situation can now do is hope that some, hopefully sensible, sane, group of people offer themselves up for election. They'll have a lot to deliver mind, so I'm not holding my breath.....Most of the population seems too interested in fame and baubles to be bothered I fear.

    I see the Pope is now complaining about our Equality Bill. Alas, the Pope's a Catholic, and centuries of celibacy has taken the intellectual fight out of the Catholic population - or so it seems to me.

    An appeal to Newsnight. Will the Newsnight team seriously think about curtailing the emotional heckling/lauding of guests please? It comes across as emotional blackmail. Or am I grumpily in a minority in being sensitive to this discomfort?

  • Comment number 44.

    #40

    dAllan40

    That sounds very touching. and encouraging.

    mim

  • Comment number 45.

    29. freemarketanarchy - perhaps it's all a function of speech and self-instruction? For example, when examining the subjunctive mood (see also the counterfactual conditional), languages differ:

    'Final vowels disappeared from Hebrew in prehistoric times, so the distinction between indicative, subjunctive and jussive is nearly very blurred even in Biblical Hebrew'

    Compare with say, Portuguese or the Germanic languages. In the end, I suggest resolution conflict may come down to resolution along these lines. I'd like to think so. But what led to these linguistic changes and retentions? That's the real question. Why did some dispense with some features and others retain them?

  • Comment number 46.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 47.

    #43 Ah Balkanisation Statist?!!!! I agree divide and rule is the way this government has pushed us. I don't mind what race people are, But I do mind the quantity, although perhaps I should worry about the quality as well.

    The sheer amount of people being allowed into this country is simply appalling. They are often poor, with a great many needs, health, education and social. How are we as ordinary tax payers ever going to pay for this continuous stream of poverty. The very rich can always avoid tax, the poor don't pay much if any, so it's up to all the silly sods in this country to pay up and look big.

    And as for this paragraph, As there's an election coming up, all anyone not happy with the current situation can now do is hope that some, hopefully sensible, sane, group of people offer themselves up for election. They'll have a lot to deliver mind, so I'm not holding my breath.....Most of the population seems too interested in fame and baubles to be bothered I fear. goodness knows where peoples brains now are in this country, they've all got to be famous, althought they'll find, only for 15 minutes!

  • Comment number 48.

    47. ecolizzy 'They are often poor, with a great many needs, health, education and social. How are we as ordinary tax payers ever going to pay for this continuous stream of poverty.'

    Yes, that must be so, and that's surely a very effective way to make a Welfare State impossible is it not? I don't think New Labour has shown itself to be very Labour at all, do you? What I have seen happening has seemed very good for those who prosper from selling private insurance and other 'services' though, don't you think? Bankers, brokers, lawyers, retailers.

    Welfare States are so very un-American.

    As to your last sentence, well, Lady Gaga's 'Fame Monster' album does quite a good job - (and some of the songs aren't bad either).

  • Comment number 49.

    #48 Ah Yes,yes,yes Statist, the lightbulb has gone on in my head, you are right, get rid of the welfare state. No new health care in the USA either, it's an "I'm alright Jack society".

    Labour I think they have forgotten what the word means, can you imagine how Morrison must be spinning in his grave.

    hhmm my daughter is a Gaga fan I'll have to have a listen! ; )

  • Comment number 50.

    49. ecolizzy - it certainly would be interesting to know what he would have made of his grand-son's handywork. But that's a subjunctive alas, like so much else that we're awash in these days.

    I'd like to think it would leave him 'Speechless'....

  • Comment number 51.

    ecolizzy - I suspect Morrison may have not fully understood what he'd got himself into, or else wasn't all he seemed?

    Here's a note from an article on what was going on in the seditious East End of London in the 1930s. Some people just want to tear down what is in place. Whether they know or care what to put in its place is moot (see Iraq).

    "The Communists in Bethnal Green, near Herbert Morrison’s base, had called for an anti-Fascist alliance with the Liberals. Morrison rejected it arguing that the CPGB favoured unity to its right but not to its left. “Would Mr Pollitt appear on a platform with Socialist, Working Class Trotsky? He would not, he declared and demanded: ‘Who says the Communists are on the left? This Labour Party is more of a left party than the Communist Party.’”(Labour Party Conference Report, 1937, pp.l61-4)"

    We seem to have been led to forget that it was once the case that 'communists' were interested in nationalising the privately owned means of production, exchange and communication so that people could work with, and for, each other as part of a state. That was once what Labour stood for, they didn't stand for wrecking the country. That was the other lot. Morrison seems a tad confused, as does his grandson (or so it seems to me).

  • Comment number 52.

    BROWN GOES GLOBAL

    He was in front of some soft inquisitorial group today. Apart from the most vacuous load of waffle yet, he seemed to feel HE is now part of Global Governance (which, by implication, ONLY HE is sufficiently globular to handle). Blair thought he was God's man on Earth - Brown thinks he is leading Plant Earth to a greater orbit. HELP!

    Britain - what have we done? Was not Blair BAD ENOUGH? Why Brown?

    As Statist says above: LET'S GET SOME COMPETENT PEOPLE INTO PARLIAMENT!

    Don't vote 'rosette'. Don't vote 'rosette-stand'. Vote REAL PERSON - preferably with INTEGRITY.

    SPOIL PARTY GAMES.

  • Comment number 53.

    THOSE TORY BENCH MARKS

    A consequence of pants on fire?

  • Comment number 54.

    53. barriesingleton - I may be mistaken, but to the best of my understanding, politicians (like barristers) don't really care too much about 'the truth', so can't easily be accused of lying as such (that would in fact be very bad form, especially in The HoC). Instead, they see their job as one which requires them to deploy 'arguments', to win cases, hearts and minds', etc.

    To parody Tina Turner: 'What's Truth Got To Do With It?'

  • Comment number 55.

    THOSE TORY BENCH MARKS REVISITED (#54)

    Touche Statist. Perhaps they are 'Legal Bench' marks, where the Attorney General sat to give 'opinion'.

  • Comment number 56.

    55. barriesingleton - after today's (not at all surprising) revelations to Chilcot .... those may now be referred to as 'skid marks'!

 

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